“Cattle, sheep, prosperity, first Australians, land on a knife edge, the politics of food and a struggle for future sustainability. An outback eco-tourism experiment that challenges a hundred years of European orthodoxy.” That’s from the flyer at the remote Wooleen Station, where David Pollock and Frances Jones have radically destocked the land to regenerate it, after more than a century of degradation.

Despite a moving story of nearly going broke, dealing with out-dated laws, and the politics around re-introducing a natural predator, they’re finding ways to continue their vital project, and producing some incredible outcomes. So it was great to visit them, learn more about what they’re up to, and what it means not just for them, but for the broader transition to sustainable, flourishing societies.

Joining Anthony for a chat in the garden of the beautiful Wooleen Homestead, here’s Station Co-Manager, Frances Jones.

Production by Ben Moore & Anthony James.

Music:
Let Them Know, by the Public Opinion Afro Orchestra.

Due to licencing restrictions, our guest’s nominated music can only be played on radio or similarly licenced broadcasts of this episode.

Find more:
Wooleen Station website.

Article on the Auditor General’s report released this month, ‘Control of pastoral leases ‘bigger than Western Europe’ failing’

Note: John Forrest was the first premier of the state of Western Australia.

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“Cattle, sheep, prosperity, first Australians, land on a knife edge, the politics of food and a struggle for future sustainability. An outback eco-tourism experiment that challenges a hundred years of European orthodoxy.” That’s from the flyer at the remote Wooleen Station, where David Pollock and Frances Jones have radically destocked the land to regenerate it, after more than a century of degradation. 

Despite a moving story of nearly going broke, dealing with out-dated laws, and the politics around re-introducing a natural predator, they’re finding ways to continue their vital project, and producing some incredible outcomes.

Pic: Nic Duncan Photographer

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
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Today we’re featuring a conversation with one of the world’s most prominent political elders - former Australian Federal Liberal Party leader, and now Professorial Fellow at the Australian National University, John Hewson.

In recent years, John has become an increasingly admired figure across the political spectrum, as a powerful advocate for more leadership, transparency, responsible investment, and evidence-based policy. This is particularly in the context of the inter-related global challenges of climate change, a possible further financial crisis, and so-called ‘post-truth’ politics. So it was a real pleasure to receive a call from John upon our arrival in Canberra, welcoming a conversation.  It became an even greater pleasure as John’s level of candour, depth, insight, humour and care became more apparent.

Most Australians probably still recall John from his contesting of the 1993 federal election for the Prime Ministership. But he’s a bit like the life-long musician who had a few years in a famous pop band. The rest of his life has featured an extensive array of studies, achievements and experience, across a range of sectors and senior positions globally.

We talk about his frustrations and great concerns – the precariousness of our financial and ecological systems, the hollowness of money and economic growth for their own sake, and the difficultly current systems are having grappling with all this.

And we talk about his proposals for change, his experiences of dealing with vested interests, the great potential of the youth vote in particular, but also of a broad movement based on a greater sense of national purpose.

We also gain more of a sense of the deeply felt purpose driving John; a purpose that sees corporate responsibility as about culture rather than charity, acting beyond our own immediate interests for the good of the whole, and an openness to learn from each other.

Anthony's co-host for this conversation is former senior corporate executive, Keith Badger.

Production by Ben Moore & Anthony James.

Title image: sourced from fambiz.org.au.

Music:
Let Them Know, by the Public Opinion Afro Orchestra.

Due to licencing restrictions, our guest’s nominated music can only be played on radio or similarly licenced broadcasts of this episode.

Find more:
Dr John Hewson AM, ANU biography.

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The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
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Or DONATE:

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Thanks for your support!

Next up is a bloke who's become one of the world's most prominent political elders & an increasingly admired figure across the political spectrum, Dr John Hewson. This in-depth & personal conversation features John's proposals for change, experiences of dealing with vested interests, the great potential of the youth vote in particular, and also of a broad movement based on a greater sense of purpose.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

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• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
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Thanks for your support!

Robert Costanza is one of the world's most accomplished and decorated systems thinkers & ‘ecological economists’. Having moved to Australia five years ago, he’s now a Professor and Vice Chancellor’s Chair at the Australian National University’s Crawford School of Public Policy. So it was great to have an opportunity to meet Bob in person and hear some of his fascinating story, recent work, sense of hope, and what he thinks we still need to do to set ourselves towards a sustainable and desirable future.

Bob has an extraordinary back-story, list of credentials, and the company he has kept over the years reads like a who’s who of the systems thinking and ecological economics fields. This is a guy who has given his all to this work over several decades. And when Anthony spoke with the first guest on this podcast, former Wall Street executive John Fullerton, Bob was the first name he mentioned when talking about the work being done in Australia to regenerate the systems and stories we live by.

This is a powerfully concise explainer of where our economy and related systems and cultural narratives need to go – along with the why and how. We spoke about public surveys that consistently affirm most people would prefer to live in sustainable and equitable societies, as well as genuine progress indicators that show the last ‘genuine progress’ in countries like Australia occurred decades ago. We also talk about the Sustainable Development Goals, the need for more systems-based education, and to recreate language as we ultimately develop a more inter-connected and holistic worldview.

Putting on a fine cup of tea at his ANU office in Canberra, is Bob Costanza.

Production by Ben Moore & Anthony James.

Music:
Let Them Know, by the Public Opinion Afro Orchestra

Due to licencing restrictions, our guest’s nominated music can only be played on radio or similarly licenced broadcasts of this episode.

Find more:
Bob’s detailed ANU profile with an extensive list of publications.

The Solutions Journal, the hybrid peer-reviewed journal and popular magazine (think Nature meets the New Yorker). It is on the web, on news-stands, and in libraries.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
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• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
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You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
• Share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Next up is Professor Robert Costanza, one of the world's most accomplished and decorated systems thinkers & ‘ecological economists’. Hear some of his fascinating story, recent work, sense of hope, and what he thinks we still need to do to set ourselves towards a sustainable and desirable future.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
• Via PayPal.

You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
• Share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Today we’re featuring not one, but a number of special guests from a public conversation Anthony hosted earlier this year, on how we go about the much-needed tasks of redefining our notion of progress - and developing new ways to measure it. The panel was joined by a full house of around 300 people, together generating one of our most compelling public forums to date.

Tim Costello AO is Chief Advocate for World Vision and one of Australia’s most recognised voices on social justice, leadership and ethics.

Dr Melissa Weinberg is a TEDx Speaker and well-known wellbeing researcher, who led the research for the Australian Unity Wellbeing Index.

And Mike Salvaris is co-founder of the OECD Global Progress Research Network, and a driving force behind the development of the Australian National Development Index.

It has long been recognised that Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is an inadequate measure of society’s success and development. Yet it and our focus on economic growth driven by wasteful consumerism persist, despite the range of crises they cause and the growing recognition that limitless consumption doesn’t make for healthy, meaningful human life.

This conversation explores how we can change these flawed narratives, systems and measures, to guide us to a sustainable economy geared towards quality of life, rather than quantity of stuff. Along the way, we learn (or re-learn) plenty about Australia, the world, deeper human nature, and each other. And the sort of probing questions, fascinating findings, and inspiring projects covered here, all offer great grist for the mill for those of us looking to reset our guiding stars of happiness, success and progress.

Is happiness the goal? Does it even work to try to increase our happiness? What makes for a meaningful life, and how do we institute that as the basis of our national accounts? What kind of leadership can we develop to this end? And how do we juggle the need to campaign on specific urgent issues, with the overarching need to address the common source of those issues?

We adopted a fairly snappy format for this forum. After brief introductions you’ll hear each speaker offer a 5-minute ‘fire-starter’. Then we launch into extensive dialogue with the audience.

With thanks to Professor John Wiseman and the Melbourne Sustainable Society Institute for their support of this event.

Production by Ben Moore & Anthony James.

Music:
Let Them Know, by the P

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Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
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• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
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You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
• Share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Next up is a live panel discussion Anthony hosted earlier this year, on how we go about the much-needed tasks of redefining our notion of progress - and developing new ways to measure it. 

Tim Costello is Chief Advocate for World Vision and one of Australia’s most recognised voices on social justice, leadership and ethics. 

Dr Melissa Weinberg is a TEDx Speaker and well-known wellbeing researcher, who led the research for the Australian Unity Wellbeing Index. 

And Dr Mike Salvaris is co-founder of the OECD Global Progress Research Network, and a driving force behind the development of the Australian National Development Index.

The panel was joined by a full house of around 300 people, together generating one of our most compelling public forums to date.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
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You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
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Thanks for your support!

The late Professor Frank Fisher was a pioneering systems thinker and Australia’s Inaugural Environmental Educator of the Year. A couple of months ago, Anthony received a copy of an interview with Frank that was originally broadcast on SBS Radio here in Australia back in 1999. Perhaps some of you heard it at the time. For those who didn't (which included Anthony, who was to meet Frank the following year), this was a great surprise – one we are keen to share in turn.

Captured in this short interview is a sense of what made Frank such a highly respected figure. There’s a sense of grounded humanity and possibility in how he talks, and how he lived. The title of his anthology, ‘Response Ability’, conveys this message succinctly - that the changes we need are within our reach. Regenerating systems and stories isn’t the domain of remote experts. It is the subject of everyday life, and ultimately who we want to become.

This is especially so given the ‘wicked’ nature of our major crises. “They’re called wicked problems”, Frank explains, “because anything that you do to try to mechanically ‘attack’ them produces a whole range of new problems”. Given these inevitable side-effects, “We have to look at other ways of doing things. And the primary way of dealing with these problems is to take the cause away [through social change].”

Frank was no technophobe, mind you. An electrical engineer who’d spent a decade in industry working in major energy projects, he went on to initiate what was Australia’s largest wind farm when completed, just a few years after this interview. But it’s the social context of this technology that counts most.

Original recording by Svetimir Ristic for SBS Serbian Radio in 1999. Svetimir is a graduate of the Masters program Frank led for a generation at Monash University. The quality of the recording and some of the particulars of what Frank talks about here may have dated a little, but the general content and approach is as relevant as ever.

Production by Ben Moore & Anthony James.

Music:
Let Them Know, by the Public Opinion Afro Orchestra.

Find more:
On Frank and the Understandascope, a concept developed by Frank with National Living Treasure, Michael Leunig.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
• Via PayPal.

You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
• Share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Next up is the late Professor Frank Fisher, pioneering systems thinker and Australia’s Inaugural Environmental Educator of the Year. This interview gives a sense of what made Frank such a highly respected figure. There's a grounded humanity and possibility in how he talks, and how he lived. The title of his anthology, ‘Response Ability’, conveys this message succinctly - that the changes we need are within our reach.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

BECOME A PAID SUBSCRIBER to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on:

• Patreon (NB: if you're using an iPhone, you can avoid Apple's new 30% app store charge for new subscribers by subscribing on your laptop or PC).
• The new Substack (for the same benefits as Patreon)
• Or Buzzsprout (without additional benefits).

Or DONATE:

• Directly via the website (avoiding fees).
• Via PayPal.

You can also:

• Visit The RegenNarration shop.
• Share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!