The Gray Area with Sean Illing

The road from 9/11 to Donald Trump

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Sean Illing talks with national security reporter Spencer Ackerman, author of the new book Reign of Terror. They discuss the staggering changes to our country in the 20 years since 9/11; the flaws, misdeeds, and injustices of the “war on terror” and the regimes that have executed it; and how America was led by the worst act of domestic terror on its own soil down a vicious, bellicose, and anti-democratic path to an authoritarian president like Trump.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Spencer Ackerman (@attackerman), national security reporter, author

References: 

  • Reign of Terror: How the 9/11 Era Destabilized America and Produced Trump by Spencer Ackerman (Viking; 2021)
  • "The Fight Over the 'Ground Zero Mosque' Was a Grim Preview of the Trump Era" by Tim Murphy (Mother Jones; Sept. 9)
  • "Trump Ramped Up Drone Strikes in America's Shadow Wars" by Spencer Ackerman (The Daily Beast; Nov. 26, 2018)
  • "The Lessons of Anwar al-Awlaki" by Tim Shane (New York Times Magazine; Aug. 27, 2015)
  • Power Wars: The Relentless Rise of Presidential Authority and Secrecy by Charlie Savage (Hachette; 2015)


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    This episode was made by: 

    • Producer: Erikk Geannikis
    • Editor: Amy Drozdowska
    • Deputy Editorial Director, Vox Talk: Amber Hall
    • VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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