THE RUNNING EFFECT PODCAST

Mario Fraioli has coached hundreds of athletes and written over half a million words about running—and his most important lesson is to do less. 

He is the founder of The Morning Shakeout, a weekly newsletter read by tens of thousands of runners since 2015, a longtime running coach, and a Masters competitor still toeing the line himself with a 4:09 mile to his name. 

Two days after the 2026 Boston Marathon, Mario sat down with Dominic to break down what he witnessed, what the sport is getting wrong, and what keeps him coming back every single year.

In this conversation, Mario makes the case for his "Go One Less" philosophy and why the athletes most motivated to push are the ones most likely to break—a lesson he learned the hard way through stress fractures and disordered eating. 

He shares what it was like training alongside some of the best runners in the country and being stunned by how slow their easy days were. And he talks about what curiosity (not ambition) has driven everything he's built, from his first newsletter issue sent to 200 people to the coaching business he never planned to have.

Take the pursuit seriously. Don't take yourself too seriously. And just get started.

Tap into the Mario Fraioli Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it.

S H O W  N O T E S   

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @mariofraioli 

The Morning Shakeout Newsletter: https://themorningshakeout.substack.com/

Website: https://mariofraioli.com/

Braelyn Combe listed five girls she expected to contend with at Festival of Miles. Chiara Dailey's name wasn't one of them.

That detail sits right at the center of this conversation: not as a grudge, but as fuel. Chiara has been one of the best prep distance runners in the country for four straight years: three consecutive California state cross country titles, a sub-4:40 mile PR, four straight national qualifications. She'll be the first to tell you she hasn't had that race yet. The one that changes the conversation. June 4th is where she's been pointing all spring.

This episode goes inside what that actually looks like. She talks about working this season with Eric Avila (a former professional runner and longtime family friend) who shifted the texture of her training: more threshold, consistent lifting,a real focus on form she'd quietly been embarrassed about for three years.

She describes her hardest workout of the spring, why she doesn't learn her sessions until after her warmup, and how she's been training her kick at every smaller meet in the postseason—going out in 32 and closing in 31.

She also goes deep on what winning actually means to her. Her moonshot goal for FOM is sub-4:30 (nine seconds faster than her current PR) and she explains, calmly and without hesitation, why she'd rather win in 4:40 than run 4:29 and finish second. She signs off with a direct message to Braelyn: "I'll see you in Fresno and I'll see you in St. Louis."

She's been around. She's done being overlooked.

Tap into the Chiara Dailey Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Behind the scenes of The Running Effect: https://youtube.com/@dominicschlueter?si=PM9FjPc92eFUFEZL

Instagram: @chiaradailey 

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

The myths runners live by are surprisingly hard to kill. Alex Ostberg is back with Dominic to dismantle four more of them.

First up: the soft surface myth. Alex explains how the brain anticipates soft terrain and stiffens the legs before foot strike, largely canceling out whatever cushioning the ground provides.

The real injury variable isn't surface, it's pace. Slowing from a 7:40 to a 10:44 mile can cut tibial stress injury risk by over 50%. Variability across surfaces beats avoidance of any one of them.

From there, the conversation moves into the "8 Questions" edition and a broader critique of optimization culture. Only about 10 to 15 percent of runners, Alex argues, should even be thinking about supplements, sleep protocols, or anabolic windows. The rest need to nail the basics first. 

The injury comeback piece brings the most personal material. Alex draws on his own two-year loop of reinjury at Stanford and UNC to argue that healing and readiness are not the same thing. Pain-free is a starting point, not a finish line.

Two rules stand above the rest: invest fully in the protection phase, and pass a stimulus twice before progressing it.

The episode closes on London 2026 and the fueling science behind the first sub-two. Sawe averaged 115 grams of carbohydrate per hour—a number that would have been considered reckless a decade ago. Alex breaks down the carbolution (dual-source transport, hydrogel delivery, gut training) and asks the question the finish line footage raised: have we eliminated the bonk?

Tap into the Alex Ostberg Rundown Recap Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Jess McClain went from anonymous to American course record holder in about two years. She'll tell you that it’s not actually that simple.

The 2024 Olympic Trials were the moment the running world met Jess when she finished fourth in Orlando, out of nowhere—or so the story went.

In this episode, she explains what that looked like from the inside: going in without expectations, with her husband Connor by her side, determined to be the person at the start line who was having the most fun. She'd been running at a high level since she was 12; the crowd just hadn't been paying attention.

What followed (a Brooks contract renegotiated entirely without an agent; a 2:20:49 at Boston; a fifth-place finish with enough left in the tank to run down the woman in front of her on Boylston) was the product of four years of uninterrupted health, a weekly appointment with a bodywork therapist named George, and a training partnership with coach David Roche built on collaboration and gear-change work. 

She describes going from 5:18 pace to 4:56 at mile 16 of a long run like it's the most natural thing in the world.

She also gets honest about what the early pro years actually cost her—financially, physically, and mentally—and why being able to support herself outside of running completely changed her relationship to racing. 

Eat enough, occasionally eat too much, but never eat too little—that's the philosophy. She's running the best marathons of her life on it.

Two years out from LA and she's not rushing anything.

Tap into the Jess McClain Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @jesstonn 

Website: ⁠bicarb.shop 

Riley Witt doesn't think you need talent to break four minutes in the mile—he just thinks you need to want it bad enough to spend $35.

The Northwest Missouri State senior came on to break down the philosophy behind that take, and what followed was one of the more honest conversations about athletic ambition, economic reality, and the compounding edge of doing everything right. 

Witt grew up in a class of 36 students in Osage, Iowa, ran a 4:40 mile his freshman year of high school, and genuinely believed that was fast. 

He didn't have the training partners, the competition, or the context to know otherwise. What he had was an Exercise Science background, an obsessive attention to marginal gains, and a willingness to do things differently.

That's where Bicarb comes in. Witt launched Bicarb 3.0 out of necessity (he wanted a sodium bicarbonate product that actually worked without the GI catastrophe), and built it into a business from his dorm room after going from a 4:11 mile to a 4:03 in two weeks on his first homebrew version.

He walks Dominic through the science of how bicarbonate buffers hydrogen ions at the cellular level, why the longer distances are starting to adopt it, and what his proprietary kinetic gradient matrix technology does differently than anything else on the market.

Underneath all of it is a runner who just ran 1:48 at the MIAA Outdoor Championships, holds a 4.0 GPA, and has one box left to check: a Division II national title. He's currently ranked second in the country in the 800m. 

The clock is ticking.

Tap into the Riley Witt Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

 Instagram: @riwitt03 

Website: bicarb.shop 

Mark Dowdle ran 306.6 miles in 73 hours, drove 20 hours home, picked up a puppy, and was back umpiring youth baseball the next week. 

That's either the most unhinged post-race recovery plan in endurance sports history, or it's the most honest thing anyone's said about who he actually is.

This is the conversation Dominic was saving for after the race—and it delivered on the hype. Mark walks through the G1M Ultra from the inside: the moment on the first night at 2 or 3 a.m. where he made the irreversible decision not to quit; the loop where he noticed Kim and Harvey were off their timing and knew what was coming; and the final miles walking with Kendall as both men quietly sensed the race was ending. 

The 13-second lap finish wasn't a dramatic sprint—it was two men who'd been through three days of mud and rain and dark deciding, together, to keep going one more time.

What makes this conversation different from a typical winner's debrief is what Mark keeps returning to: the idea that who you are at a youth baseball game is exactly who you are at mile 290. His sister-in-law Lily's voice was in his earbuds pulling him through the low loops.

The internal battle between wanting the race to end and wanting to see how far two people can actually go together. And the realization, standing upright after 73 hours, that he didn't have to perform for anyone.

He also quietly drops that he's now officially a BPN athlete. The chapter he'd title What It Looks Like to Walk in Faith is just getting started.

Tap into the Mark Dowdle Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @mark.dowdle 

Luke Hopkins doesn't separate who he is from what he does—and that almost broke him.

When a stress fracture pulled him off the training schedule he'd built his identity around, Hopkins had to face a question most high achievers never stop long enough to ask: what's left when the sport is gone? 

In this episode, the guys dive into the psychology of performance: the difference between being intentional and being consumed; why the hardest workers are often the most emotionally repressed; and what therapy, faith, and a neuroscience degree have taught him about the person underneath the athlete.

Hopkins traces his relentless work ethic back to a single moment at age 12, when a family accident forced him to decide what kind of person he was going to be. That decision made him exceptional. It also cost him things he's still learning to name. 

He talks honestly about tying worth to output, the fragility of building an identity on strangers' approval, and why his brands not dropping him during the injury was one of the most clarifying moments of his career.

The conversation covers hybrid training, what four-plus hours of daily training actually feels like, and the neuroscience behind why your brain is the limiting factor in any race—not your legs.

But the episode's real weight is in the quieter moments: pride, fear, and what Hopkins would tell his 12-year-old self if he had the chance.

Tap into the Luke Hopkins Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it. If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

S H O W   N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

INSTAGRAM: @lukehoplife 

Youtube: @lukehoplife 

Tiktok: @lukehoplife 

Alan Webb still has the record. Twenty-four years later, nobody's touched it. 

The American high school mile record (3:53.43, set at the 2001 Prefontaine Classic) has outlasted every shoe revolution, every bicarb protocol, and every perfectly concocted running shoe PR storm. In this conversation, Webb sits down with Dominic to talk about why that mark still stands, what it actually felt like to run it, and what the sport's fastest generation of teenagers is still missing.

Webb is disarmingly honest about his own race. 

Going into Pre that day, he wasn't chasing Ryun's record—he was chasing a decimal-second PR over 3:59. He was, in his words, playing with house money. The result was a 55-flat last lap with gas still in the tank, a closing kick he nearly stumbled into because he didn't realize how far ahead of his goal he was. That psychological accident, he argues, is exactly what most high school milers can't replicate on command.

The conversation moves from race mechanics to coaching philosophy to the weight room sins of his own career—including a period where Webb, by his own admission, went full Arnold Schwarzenegger while training for the mile. He's candid about what he got wrong, what Coach Raczko got right, and how much of that South Lakes framework he's carried directly into his program at Ave Maria University.

And somewhere in the middle of all of it, Webb lands on the thing that seems to have kept him in the sport long after the records and the contracts and the Nike deals: running, he says, teaches virtue. 

That's not nothing.

Tap into the Alan Webb Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @alanwebb1

He ran 63 miles on a broken stomach, launched a product the same week, and called it a good weekend.

Zach Pogrob is back—and this time, the conversation goes deeper than any race result. 

A month before the BPN G1M Ultra, he posted a photo at 220 pounds and admitted he had no business toeing the line. He showed up anyway, ran until his GI system shut down at mile 50, kept going on fumes, and walked away with a finish that looked like a DNF: but felt, to him, like proof. 

That's the through-line of this entire episode: what it means to show up when the conditions aren't right, whether you'reentering a backyard ultra or building a startup with three people and no marketing budget.

Zach breaks down the obsession economy behind ShareAura, a running app already hitting all-time weekly users with zero paid acquisition, and he demos the new Aura Run Cam live: a camera-first tracker designed to make sharing your run as easy as taking a photo. 

He also gets into what running 10 miles before sunrise every morning can do to a life that's lost its direction, what it actually takes to compete with Strava, why the running industry suffers from fixed-mindset thinking, and why the best companies (like the best athletes) are almost always built by outsiders.

Zach Pogrob is here and he’s not holding back.

Tap into the Zach Pogrob Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! I would also appreciate it if you share it with your friend who you think will benefit from it. If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

If this episode blesses you, please share it with a friend!

S H O W   N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

INSTAGRAM: @zachpogrob 

X: @zachpogrob 

Website: zach.blog 

Youtube: @zach_pogrob 

She threw up before every race. Now she's the fourth-fastest high school miler in American history.

Ellery Lincoln is a Nike Elite junior from Lincoln High School in Portland, and her 4:30.00 at the 2026 Nike/Jesuit Twilight Relays didn't arrive as a surprise so much as an inevitability—the product of two years’ worth of illness, setback, and a mantra she and her mom built together: consistency over perfection.

In this episode, she and Dominic go deep on the story behind the fast times: the whooping cough that derailed her cross country season; the pneumonia that hit the day she landed in New York for Nike Indoor Nationals; and what it actually looks like to rebuild not just fitness but trust in a body that keeps letting you down. 

She also talks about committing to the University of Oregon (where Shalane Flannagan coaches and where her connection to Jerry Schumacher runs deeper than almost anyone's) and why she chose Eugene even though staying in-state wasn'talways the plan. 

She breaks down the pre-race anxiety that once had her vomiting before every race and how she worked through it; what it means to sit #4 all-time as a junior; and why her sightline is already past the high school record book and onto a professional career.

The HOKA Festival of Miles is June 4th in St. Louis. She'll be there. So will Braelyn Combe, her best friend and the closest thing the high school mile has to a genuine rival right now. She's predicting sub-4:30 for the winner. For herself, she said 4:27.4.

Tap into the Ellery Lincoln Special.

If you enjoy the podcast, please consider following us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and giving us a five-star review! 

S H O W  N O T E S  

-The Run Down By The Running Effect (our new newsletter!): https://tinyurl.com/mr36s9rs

-Our Website: https://therunningeffect.run  

-THE PODCAST ON YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClLcLIDAqmJBTHeyWJx_wFQ

-My Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/therunningeffect/?hl=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

-Take our podcast survey: https://tinyurl.com/3ua62ffz

Instagram: @ellerylincoln