The Sacred

Michael Pollan tried psychedelics at 55. What he found changed everything he thought he knew.

Michael is not a mystic or a guru. He is the kind of writer that scientists, doctors and serious intellectuals trust - someone who changed the way millions of people think about food, farming and the natural world. So when Michael Pollan tried psychedelics at 55 and came back saying the certainties had started to dissolve - the world began to listen in a way they simply wouldn't have for anyone else.

In this conversation, Michael and Elizabeth explore what it actually means to be conscious — and whether we're squandering it. Why does every psychedelic trip seem to arrive at the same slightly cliché and yet, beautiful conclusions? What have we lost by building a science of the mind that brackets out the body, the emotions and everything that actually feels like something? Why is the cool, analytical part of our brain so much louder than the part that knows how to be present — and who benefits from keeping it that way? And what are the algorithms really stealing when they steal our attention?

They cover:

• Why science keeps getting within reach of explaining consciousness — and then losing its nerve

• What psychedelics reveal that embarrasses serious researchers (and why that embarrassment is the clue)

• The Silicon Valley bid to upload consciousness
• How to protect your attention in an age designed to steal it
• Why not-knowing might be the most important skill of our time

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Our guests and listeners to our podcast come from all kinds of perspectives and what draws us together is a desire to be self-aware about our own values and curious about other peoples. Comment your reflections below, we read them all👇

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🎙️Listen to ⁠The Sacred Podcast⁠: https://linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow ⁠Elizabeth Oldfield: https://www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡Produced by ⁠⁠Theos Think Tank⁠⁠ in partnership with ⁠⁠Comment Magazine⁠⁠ and with support from ⁠⁠The Jerusalem Trust⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Open Society Foundations

👉 See Michael Pollan's work: https://michaelpollan.com/

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Chapters:

0:00 - Intro trailer

01:45 - What is Sacred to you? Michael Pollan answers

3:45 - When the ego dissolves: what psychedelics actually do

4:25 - Growing up with an alcoholic father and becoming the man with all the answers

6:01 - 'How to Change Your Mind; shifted culture

6:25 - Michael's lifelong obsession with nature

7:22 - Why feelings became an embarrassment to science

8:16 - First experience of psychedelics

9:18 - Is consciousness being polluted — and do we even notice?10:18 - Silicon Valley wants to upload the soul. Here's why that's terrifying

26:13 - Why being a sceptic, not an expert, made the psychedelic book so influential

28:33 - How writers sense a cultural shift before it happens

30:25 - The president who colonised our consciousness and won't leave

32:06 - Elizabeth's encounter with God at age 11

36:33 - The Zen cave, Roshi Joan Halifax, and learning to not know

41:27 - We can't afford to be anything less than present

43:24 - How men get scripted out of their own inner lives

46:10 - Consciousness as the secular word for soul

49:04 - Protect your inner life from the algorithm

52:12 - Why don't they just make a baby? The funniest moment in the book

54:24 - Ayahuasca, idealism and the scientist who changed his mind twice

56:06 - Cultivating the don't-know mind

56:32 - Elizabeth's reflections

What happens after winning Bake Off?

Jasmine Mitchell joins us to talk about perfectionism, alopecia, self-image, and learning to be fully yourself in a world obsessed with image.

Jasmine reflects on growing up in a home shaped by hospitality, losing her hair as a teenager, learning to let go of perfection, and the unexpected journey that took her from medical school to winning British Bake Off 2025.

Elizabeth Oldfield and Jasmine explore:

• Why “go slow” became Jasmine’s grounding philosophy
• Her journey with alopecia and being fully seen
• Reality TV, public image and is Bake Off different from the rest?
• Why hospitality and shared meals matter so deeply

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🎙️Listen to ⁠The Sacred Podcast⁠: https://linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow ⁠Elizabeth Oldfield: https://www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡Produced by ⁠⁠Theos Think Tank⁠⁠ in partnership with ⁠⁠Comment Magazine⁠⁠ and with support from ⁠⁠The Jerusalem Trust⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠Open Society Foundations

👉 Follow ⁠Jasmine Mitchell: https://www.instagram.com/jasmine.mitchell/tagged/?hl=en

Nearly a decade into The Sacred, we’re still doing the same thing: having honest and curious conversations with people who see the world differently.

We're wondering why - like the return of spring - seeking to understand another person at a deep level never seems to get old.

There's something about learning to truly understand people outside our “tribe” that feels challenging and pleasurable all at once and we're seeing (nine years later!) just how much we need these conversations today.

As Maff Potts says, “the answer to our problems is each other.”

So this is a practice, a community and a place to sit with the hard questions and we're really glad you’re doing it with us.

— The Sacred Team - Elizabeth, Josh, Amari & Joe

👀 You may notice that our visuals have been levelled up. We’re delighted that our team is growing and The Sacred will be getting a lot more beautiful and creative!

✍️ Substack: https://thesacredpodcast.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

💡 Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

The world wasn’t built for everyone. Leah Libresco Sargeant on feminism, care, and the myth of the “neutral” human.

Join our community of people listening curiously to different perspectives: https://www.youtube.com/@thesacredpodcast/videos

Leah has spent her life following philosophy to its limits, from Kantian questions of moral truth to reckoning with human vulnerability. Her journey reveals what happens when the world is built for a ‘neutral human’ - and who it leaves behind.

This conversation explores feminism, gender difference, care, and what it really means to take morality seriously.

Leah is the writer of Dignity of Dependence, works in of family policy and is the host of Other Feminisms on Substack.

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✍️ Find us on Substack: https://thesacredpodcast.substack.com/?utm_campaign=profile_chips

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡 Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉Check out Leah's substack: https://www.otherfeminisms.com/

What actually shapes the life you’re living - your own choices, or the ones you inherited?

In this episode of The Sacred, we are with Dr Rangan Chatterjee exploring the moments that force our values to the surface - births, deaths and major life events - and how they can reset the direction of our lives.

An Indian immigrant doctor, his father worked relentlessly to give his family opportunities — but it also came at a cost and contributed to the illness that ended his career and eventually his life. This left Dr Rangan with the question 'Dad, was it worth it?"

This conversation opens up topics that many of us choose to avoid:

• Workaholism and the drive for more

• What it really means to define “success” for yourself

• What it takes to consciously choose what we carry forward from our parents

Dr Rangan Chatterjee is a former GP, bestselling author and one of the UK’s most recognisable voices on a holistic approach to health.

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🎙️Listen to The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast\

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/👉 Check out Dr Rangan's podcast, Feel Better Live More: https://drchatterjee.com/podcast-epis...

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

00:50 What is Sacred to You? Dr. Rangan Chatterjee answers

1:31 Staying connected to family roots

2:09 Career sacrifices and setting boundaries

5:14 Being non-judgmental around boundaries

6:23 Understanding empathy from a most-wanted criminal

9:11 Everyone's story makes sense

12:06 Indian upbringing vs western culture at school

13:41 Integrating eastern values into modern life

15:35 Teaching respect and kindness to children

17:29 Father's work ethic and health impact

19:41 "Was it worth it?"

22:29 Recognising overworking and knowing what is enough

24:51 Surprising personal interests and finding joy

27:30 Spiritual awakening, introspection and personal growth

29:19 Whose life are you leading?

33:39 Are you religious?

36:23 Responding to negative comments with kindness

39:56 Meaningful living and the importance of relationships, humour, and belief

Keywords:values, grief and growth, redefining success, what is enough, living with intention, family and sacrifice, work life balance, burnout and overwork, meaning of life, personal growth, self reflection, life purpose, inner work, emotional wellbeing, mental health, lifestyle medicine, holistic health, parenting and values, legacy and inheritance, immigrant family story, identity and belonging, cultural identity, compassion and empathy, curiosity over judgment, relationships and connection, modern life stress, slowing down, presence and mindfulness, gratitude practice, life transitions, dealing with loss, grief and clarity, success vs happiness, redefining ambition, work ethic rethink, conscious living, self awareness, asking better questions, deep conversations, philosophy of life, spirituality and meaning, living authentically, personal values, making better choices, life design, happiness and contentment, avoiding burnout, healing generational patterns, carrying forward what matters

We spoke to Stig Abell on how to live if nothing is ultimately sacred.

Elizabeth Oldfield and Stig explore detective fiction and our longing for justice, the consolations of books in an age of infinite scroll, the quiet crises many of us are living through, and whether “muddling along” might be the most honest way live.

This is a conversation about meaning and what remains when you’re not sure there is any.

We talk about:

• Why Stig feels more profane than sacred

• Books as portals out of panic

• Detective fiction and our longing for resolution

• The exhausting, competitive condition of modern life

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🎙️Listen to The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡Produced by Theos Think Tank: www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

👉 Check out Stig’s work: https://www.instagram.com/thestigabell/?hl=en

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

01:28 What is Sacred to You? Stig Abell Answers02:48 Questioning the Concept of the Sacred

04:32 Suspicion of Institutions and Freedom in Randomness

06:13 The Principles of Fairness and Kindness

08:56 Work ethics, Loughborough roots, and the story behind “Stig"

12:11 Reading and the Pre-internet childhood

14:35 Reading as Empathy and Sacred Practice

15:58 The Nature of Doubt and Certainty

17:42 Evolution, Randomness, and Meaning Without Agency

19:59 Do “holy” moments require God?

23:54 The Press and Public Appetite For Bad News

29:56 Navigating the Complexities of Journalism

32:02 Navigating the Media Landscape

36:05 Being unboxable, tribal politics, and scepticism as a way of life

37:58 Highbrow, Lowbrow, and the Freedom to Read Widely

39:32 Imposter Syndrome and Self-Perception

43:17 The Comfort of Genre Fiction

46:42 The Search for Justice in Storytelling

49:24 The Human Need for Narrative

54:03 The Crisis of Modern Existence

56:41 Quiet Struggles and the Fear of Being Useless

58:51 Recognising Flaws in Ourselves and Others

Keywords:

A wide-ranging conversation with Stig Abell on doubt, belief, meaning, secularism, faith and scepticism, fairness and kindness, journalism and media ethics, detective fiction and crime novels, books and reading as refuge, panic attacks and anxiety, modern life and burnout, human rights and Christianity’s cultural legacy, tribalism and political identity, institutions and individual conscience, and how to live well - or at least muddle through - in an age of uncertainty and infinite scroll.

In this episode, Elizabeth Oldfield is joined by political theorist and author Sophie Lewis to explore one of the most provocative ideas: the abolition of the family.

Reflecting on her own complicated adolescence, Sophie asks what it would mean to reorganise society around love and collective care rather than accumulation?

Drawing on her book, Abolish the Family, Sophie argues that the nuclear family carries impossible burdens in a capitalist society - privatising care, exhausting women, and quietly treating children as property. Could we imagine a world where love, care, and kinship extend beyond the walls of the nuclear family?

Together, they talk about:

• Why “utopia” is a practice, not a destination

• The hidden labour inside the private household

• Surrogacy, reproduction and the myth of “unassisted” motherhood

• Are autonomy and care are opposites, or inseparable?

• Jesus’ radical redefinition of family and the overlap between Christianity and communism

• What Sophie really means by abolition

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🎙️ Follow The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡 Produced by the ‪@thinktanktheos‬ www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

👉 Check out Sophie Lewis' work: https://www.instagram.com/reproutopia/?hl=en--

Chapters:00:00 Intro01:30 What is Sacred to you? Sophie Lewis answers12:15 - Sophie’s complex family history and personal struggles17:08 - Educational journey and radicalisation at university 20:28 - The meaning of utopia as a non-attachment process 24:22 - Connections between faith, love, and collective action 31:42 - Dissecting the concept of "Full Surrogacy Now" 36:39 - The biological myths around kinship and their political implications 43:46 - The paradox of abolition47:01 - Abolishing slavery through a radical reimagining of humanism 50:04 - Redefining family and kinship beyond blood ties 58:37 - How revolutionary care structures could have supported Sophie’s mother 60:45 - Sophie’s dedication to collective love and care as sacred practices 65:55 - The importance of shared purpose, synchronised action, and community

Keywords:

Sophie Lewis interview, abolish the family, radical feminist theory, Marxist feminism, political theory podcast, communisation of care, collective care, kinship networks, utopian thinking, libertarian communism, red love, family abolition, post-capitalist society, rethinking family, surrogacy ethics, gestational labor, parenthood and care, children belong to all of us, abolitionist thought, freedom and care, communal living, shared responsibility, parenting in modern society, radical theory for everyday life, anti-capitalist ideas, feminist politics, climate activism and radical thought, human geography theory, political philosophy podcast, queer runaway experiences, care as politics, social justice ideas, ethical community building, friendship as radical practice, collective freedom, family and society, abolitionist feminism, pregnancy and labor politics, communal childcare, mutual aid networks, parenting beyond the nuclear family, utopian visions, practical radicalism, human interconnection, radical love, ethics of kinship, parenting as shared labor, post-nuclear family ideas, political critique of capitalism, community-centered society, love and autonomy, humanism and care, social reproduction theory, feminist philosophy, radical theory conversation, future of family, abolitionist imagination

In this episode of The Sacred, Elizabeth Oldfield is joined by Jo Colman - great-great-great grandchild of the founder of Colman’s Mustard and now Chief Mint Officer of the family business, Summerdown - to explore a radically different story about generational wealth, power, business and belonging.

Jo reflects on growing up with deep security and love, how that shaped his sense of responsibility, and why privilege doesn’t have to turn inward into status-seeking, but can instead become a platform for risk, generosity and service.

Together, they talk about:

• How power and privilege can be redirected outward rather than hoarded

• Why Jo once rejected signet rings and why he now wears one

• Building ethical, regenerative businesses that add value instead of extracting it

• Adoption, family-making, and the real cost of inclusion

• How to build families, institutions and communities that can truly hold human complexityThis is a conversation about the kind of wealth that doesn’t shrink the soul.

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🎙️ Follow The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡 Produced by the ‪@thinktanktheos‬ www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

👉 Check out Summerdown: https://summerdown.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorjZKbSVC3rIhS42z-aqIhQWmr_CuCGtz24hUSKbzOuu8Lh_H-w

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Chapters

00:00 Intro

01:07 What is Sacred to You? Jo Colman answers

03:02 Staying Present in Parenting

05:49 Hope vs. Optimism: Embracing Life’s Paradoxes

12:14 Wealth as Formation: Privilege and Responsibility

15:14 Building a Regenerative, Ethical Business

31:26 Creativity, Purpose, and Social Responsibility

32:22 Our Adoption Journey

35:33 Training and Preparation for Adoptive Parenting

37:44 Parenting Adopted Children: Real Challenges

39:57 Trauma, Healing, and the Power of Love

45:31 Bureaucracy and the Adoption Process

47:35 Understanding the Stories of Biological Families

50:09 Adoption as Plan B: A Broader Perspective

51:53 Small-A Anarchism and Community Engagement

55:31 Listening, Assumptions, and Understanding Adoption

58:02 Slowing down in parenting

Keywords:

Jo Colman, Colman Mustard, Summerdown Mint, generational wealth, inheritance, privilege for good, ethical entrepreneurship, conscious capitalism, regenerative business, sustainable business, business with purpose, using wealth responsibly, family beyond blood, adoption stories, adoptive parenting, building family, radical generosity, love as action, belonging, human complexity, non-anxious presence, prophetic imagination, spiritual formation, formation through faith, stewardship of privilege, power and responsibility, ethical leadership, business for impact, social impact business, purposeful life, vocation and calling, family-making as vocation, living ethically, hope versus optimism, accompaniment, relational leadership, intentional parenting, high-needs adoption, inclusive families, inclusive communities, societal change, moral courage, compassionate leadership, human flourishing, social responsibility, giving back, life of service, risk for good, cultivating resilience, forming community, transformative love, radical hospitality

Elizabeth Neumann, a former senior official in the Trump Administration, reflects on why she felt called to serve, what she witnessed from inside government, and how her commitment to integrity ultimately led her to step away.

In this conversation, she and Elizabeth Oldfield reflect on how extremism takes root, the role of integrity in polarised times, and why love, accountability, and formation matter more than outrage or power.

Key moments:

- Why Elizabeth Neumann worked in the Trump administration - and why she left

- The difference between loyalty, obedience, and integrity

- How fear drives polarisation and extremism

- What 911 on January 6th revealed about institutional fragility

- Why love is not soft, but essential for violence prevention

- The cost of truth-telling inside communities you care about

Chapters

00:00 Trailer

00:32 Intro

01:21 What is sacred to you? Elizabeth Neumann answers

03:34 Values in Hard Decision Making

08:47 Growing Up in the Bible Belt

14:06 Understanding Extremism and Fear

18:31 The Shift in Political Narratives

27:21 The Impact of 9/11 on National Security

32:02 The Psychological Drivers of Extremism

41:51 The Role of Love in Community Resilience

48:09 Navigating Political Loyalty in the Trump Administration 53:26 The January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol

01:00:18 Speaking Out Against Extremism

01:05:48 Engaging with Those at Risk of Radicalisation

Keywords:John Kelly, Christian extremism, Bush, Trump, political extremism in America, faith and politics, Elizabeth Neumann interview, former Trump administration official, extremism and fear, radicalization and identity, preventing political violence, January 6 insurrection analysis, national security and extremism, Christian nationalism explained, moral courage in politics, integrity vs loyalty, obedience and conscience, fear-based politics, polarization in America, how extremism takes root, psychological drivers of extremism, love as violence prevention, community resilience against extremism, speaking out against extremism, truth-telling in polarized communities, cost of dissent, faith formation and identity, Bible Belt culture, 9/11 and national security policy, domestic extremism explained, religious identity and politics, political loyalty and integrity, navigating moral conflict at work, radicalization warning signs, de-escalation and prevention strategies, engaging people at risk of extremism, the role of fear in radicalization, democracy under threat, institutions under strain, January 6 lessons learned, Christian ethics in public life, power vs moral responsibility, extremism inside institutions, violence prevention strategies, faith-based approaches to peacebuilding, why people believe extreme ideologies, breaking cycles of outrage, love and accountability in community, political identity and belonging, courageous leadership in divided times, how narratives shape extremism, faith, fear, and power, rebuilding trust across difference

In this episode Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer, environmentalist, and activist George Monbiot - a fiercely anti-establishment voice shaped by resistance, trauma, and a refusal to become what Britain’s elite institutions tried to make him.

We discuss:

- Why the language we use around the environment and climate change, isn't sufficient

- Growing up with buried histories of English fascism and Jewish refuge, and what Britain still refuses to face

- Boarding school trauma, survival personalities, and opting out of elite power systems

- Is faith needed for moral courage?

- How real change happens without becoming the thing you’re fighting

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🎙️ Follow The Sacred: linktr.ee/sacredpodcast

📖 Follow Elizabeth Oldfield: www.elizabetholdfield.com/

💡 Produced by the ‪@thinktanktheos‬ www.theosthinktank.co.uk/

👉 Follow George Monbiot: https://www.instagram.com/georgemonbiot/?hl=en

Chapters:

00:00 Trailer and Intro

00:56 What is Sacred to you? George Monbiot answers

06:00 Language Shapes the Fight for Our Planet

09:00 Uncovering British Fascism and His Grandmother's Involvement

12:00 Boarding School and How Elitism Tried to Shape Him

15:00 Journalism and Environmental Campaigns

18:00 Why Society and Power Work the Way They Do

21:00 How to Speak Up as an Activist Without Losing People

24:00 Power, Purpose, and How to Live Differently

Keywords:George Monbiot interview on The Sacred podcast, environmental activism and climate change discussion, how to live differently from the British elite, fighting for the living planet, rewilding and regenerative agriculture ideas, understanding neoliberalism and power, environmentalist’s guide to ethical living, grassroots activism for ecological justice, climate breakdown explained by George Monbiot, public luxury and private sufficiency philosophy, moral courage and personal growth stories, human nature and altruism debate, survival personality from boarding school trauma, family history of fascism and refugees, life lessons from an anti-establishment thinker, insights into environmental journalism, political resistance and direct action in Britain, lessons from activism in Brazil and West Papua, preserving biodiversity and ecosystems, transformative environmental philosophy, connecting with nature for mental health, environmental ethics for everyday life, how to persuade people about climate crisis, the role of empathy in social change, understanding the 1% and societal power, regenerative living and sustainable farming practices, ecological systems and life support functions, teaching community values and cooperation, overcoming fear and selfishness in society, personal transformation through nature, insights into British history and hidden fascism, activism strategies that work in practice, human impact on the natural world, fighting the system while staying honest, exploring moral and ethical values, climate emergency communication strategies, environmental storytelling for change, balancing anger and persuasion in activism, learning from liberation theology and social justice, life lessons from a radical environmentalist, tackling neoliberal myths about human nature, the role of courage in ethical action, George Monbiot on biodiversity recovery, understanding climate chaos, inspiring environmental leadership stories, how humans can live in harmony with the planet, the power of knowledge and curiosity in activism