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In this episode, Sean and James examine the differing expectations that friends can hold for each other. James tells how his experiences in middle school and high school influenced his friendships. They take the 'Love Languages' test to find out which of the five love languages (words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, and physical touch) speaks to them the most.
As they reflect on the changes in their friendships, James and Sean talk about how they manage their expectations in terms of people with whom they share years of life experiences and interests.
Accepting That People Change is the Key to Preserve Friendships
Sean [00:09:17]: When we're young, our pool of interest is very small. We have interest in different music, but we had a lot more commonalities and differences. And as we get older, we're going to have more differences and commonalities. Once you understand that they are changing and you yourself have changed, then it's much easier to have conversations again, because you're not trying to hold on to something that was in the past.
Though You Cannot Control How Others Treat You, You Can Control How You Behave
Sean [00:15:18]: Don't worry about what they can or cannot do, just worry about yourself and what you can do as a friend. How other people treat you is not within your control. But how you can treat your friends, how you can be there for them is something within your control. Sometimes we feel like a friend is really shitty to us or has been like a shitty friend, but rarely do we ask ourselves, when have we been, maybe we're a shitty friend, right?
Moments of Being Yourself Allows You to Define Your Identity
James [00:31:32]: I wanted to try to fit in I became someone who I wasn't, when like trying to be cool or trying to be whatever, like trying to fit in, you're trying to adapt your identity. But it's funny because when I started to not care as much, that things became a lot easier.
Being a Negative or Positive Thinker Can Lead to Self-Improvement
Sean [00:37:25]: Being negative is not a totally bad thing. It is in a way we can be very use it as a skill, right. You're always going to be being negative as a kind of like always trying to get to the best. It's almost like perfectionism in a certain way. You want it to be the best. And you're always going to be criticizing yourself, but the way to not fall into that and be completely just taken over about negativity is actually to not be judgemental a bit. I think that's a lot of people struggle with is that they are aware of the negativity and they let it consume them because they're judging themselves from being like, I shouldn't be like this. And so it creates some kind of feedback with not positive at all by judging yourself constantly.
The 5 Love Languages Quiz
The Five Love Languages: How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate by Gary Chapman
Having been through a month of intense regular pitches for the accelerator program, Sean talks about adjusting and focusing on the future while keeping in touch with the present. When you meet with 30 to 40 mentors each week, it's hard to stay on top of things. Though he finds the program overwhelming and mind-numbing, he talks about how he's adapting so far.
The two discuss the Winter Olympics and the Super Bowl and why Sean is stressed by the idea of competitive sports. Discover what keeps them going when the road to success is not a defined, straight path.
James and Sean discuss the role of the leader and what keeps them on pushing forward.
Being a CEO is Like Being That Spot in the Middle of the Hourglass
James [00:05:01]: The way that I imagine a CEO position, I don't know if someone else has also thought of this, but I think of it as an hourglass, right? The CEO, that's why it's so important. Also, extremely difficult, but very, very highly sought after because it is the touchpoint. The most important part of the hourglass it's where the sand goes through. Right? And it makes a difference. It’s like the opposite ends, where one part of the hourglass is the investor, the customers, all the other top-line people that you have to deal with. Then, on the other side, for your employees and your actual company. And you have to be able to manage both. That's what makes being a CEO so difficult. It’s that you're not actually a boss, you're the boss right in the middle.
Why Going Back to Your Purpose Matters
Sean [00:06:24]: I have to pause because I need to digest what was just said. I think one of the things that really convinced me, at least, is what I want to be doing and why I want to do it. Your job as a CEO is to make sure your people are taken care of. And that's really what I care about. Like, that's why I want to build businesses. I want to be an entrepreneur because I want to solve problems, obviously. But, I want to create an opportunity.
The Path to Success is Not Just Forward, It Can Also be Backward
Sean [00:17:32]: It reminded me of this image that I don't know, people won't be able to see this, there are these famous images of like the reality of success. It's like how we think straight straight-line perception, the reality, it's just like a bunch of squiggles. But you know what? Even though I've seen this a million times, I never interpreted it as you can be moving backward, and it's still progress. I think that's really insightful realization because obviously, who says forward is the right direction, right? Or the only direction? Moving backward could equally be just as right. Because you might be, I don't know, undoing something that you should be, doing differently.
Continuous Movement is the Key to Staying Motivated
James [00:18:36]: That is the only time when progress isn't happening. If you kind of settled down and don't do anything. Right? But, if you're actually doing something, even if you go to work, and you think that the work that you're going to is very mundane and really boring, or it's getting you nowhere in life, that is still actually movement. You're still going to work, still doing these things. And it's up to you to not settle into that same type of job. It's up to you to look for even just a different angle and how you can make your job mentally interesting. Or you have to apply a hobby that is going to fulfill the mental growth or the physical growth that you need to kind of counterbalance the feeling that you're just stuck at work all the time.
What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture, by Ben Horowitz
The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers, by Ben Horowitz
How to Win Friends & Influence People by Dale Carnegie
Sean and James face a dilemma this week. Starting a business requires constant balancing between meeting short-term demands and working towards our longer-term goals. When you’re faced with an option to work in the business or on the business, what do you prioritize? Is there even a difference between the two?
Sean shares insights from the acceleration program in today's episode. He discusses the exhausting, but fruitful process of pitching. When you separate yourself from the business and work on projects that affect our high-level goals, you still have to worry about the present. This is true even for those pursuing their craft and things they love. How do Sean and James cope? Make sure to listen to this episode to find out how.
This week is all about things that can help startups plan for the long-term and ideas on how to balance your business’s immediate needs.
Planning the team’s structure and being attentive will help you anticipate the team’s need, even before they need it
Sean [00:07:56]: That's been a hard part because part of doing the work too is hiring. Like hiring is part of this process. Recognizing clearly, a little bit too late, that we need help. And that's always the case. The advice we got from the get-go was always trying to hire ahead of time, which is really a piece of hard advice to take because how do you know what I'm supposed to hire ahead of time? Doesn't account for much else. Actually, it doesn't account for creatives because there was no job for creative really back in the day in the industrial age.
Finding a mentor and keeping the feedback loop is crucial, even if it’s time-consuming
Sean [00:10:48]: I'm just trying to figure out whether this is a normal thing that's going on right now. Because like you're saying it's foreign waters. Or am I just burnt out, or am I burning out? But then that prompts me to think about that whole Adam Grant book, Give and Take. It’s like, you typically feel burnout if you don't have good feedback loops. That may be what I'm lacking. I don't have a good feedback loop. Like our old mentor meeting stuff?
Focus on key initiatives that will help you with your long-term goals and the one with the most probability of success
Sean [00:16:35]: So clearly the sales messaging will be different. You can't use the same message for all of them, which is what we were trying to do. Which was ineffective. And so now, we just need to plot out a path that has the highest probability for success, and then you just go with it, right. And learn along the way. At least we have some clarity that we need to pick a path versus trying to pursue multiple paths at the same time and, feeling stuck, feeling like we're not getting anywhere.
Why working on things that will make you happy in the long term is important to help you succeed
James [00:22:17]: It would be the most paying job I would have had by almost 50%. And I was like, “Oh man, I kind of regret not taking it”. But then I thought back to why I didn't really take that offer. Right? It was in an industry that I wasn't really interested in. it was a product management role. I've never done that before. And not that I couldn't have taken the shot to do it. And I think I could have, but I just had to remind myself that, I wouldn't be happy.
Show Links:
Sell More Faster: The Ultimate Sales Playbook for Startups (Techstars)
On Startup Struggles this week, Sean and James talk about Korean food. The two reminisce about all the delicious dishes that James' mom makes. Their conversations focus on eating regularly and not skipping meals.
The duo discusses what affects our brains’ creative and analytical processes and how Sean and his co-founder Servie benefit from Techstars' mentorship program. Finally, Sean talks about how “The Inquiry” convinced his wife to let him go to Columbia.
Key Takeaways:
This week is all about Asian food, particularly their favorite Korean dishes, breaking the mold and challenging your beliefs. The episode emphasizes the importance of:
Episode Quotes:
The traditional design of the educational system was created at a time when creativity was unaccounted for in the workplace
Sean [00:22:23]: I've read books about how the education system was developed and the historical context of education. The current education system, how it stemmed from, I think it was like Europe, Eastern Europe in Byzantine and basically, it was designed to just train and funnel people through a system and then fill jobs for the economy. There's nothing wrong with that. It sounds terrible, but it's just how things work. And even to this day, there’s this sorting system, you're either creative, or you're analytical. If you're creative, go do this. If you're analytical, go do that. Right. If you're going to math and sciences, be an engineer, and that doesn't account for much else. Actually, it doesn't account for creatives because there was no job for creative really back in the day in the industrial age.
Questioning and evaluating your beliefs from time to time helps you find satisfaction at work and in life
Sean [00:24:22]: I mean, we're born with no beliefs, and then we are brought up with many beliefs, some good, some limiting, I would say. Some are limiting in good ways. Like, “Don't go play with fire. Don't jump off of things. These are limiting beliefs, right? And for the most part, they're intended to protect us in some way, shape, or form from danger and improve our survivability. But, the world is changing, and I think it's dangerous to not question your beliefs or evaluate them from time to time.
Finding an outlet and taking time to do the things you love
James [00:25:10]: I think a lot of times, for me, I always thought that career was the only outlet that I actually ever had. I felt that my life was surrounded by only work, and it was the most important thing, and I was hoping to get satisfaction from that. It wasn't satisfying, but I don't think that's true either. Because I believe, there is some sort of satisfaction that has to come from work. I mean, you're lucky, and you're doing something that you really like, and it's like satisfying, then that's great. But some people are going to have to work a living. Right? You just need to do it, but the outlet has to come afterward. And you have to be able to find something. That is where your hobbies lie. Maybe it’s for your family. You know, for many people, our family is our outlet, and they live for their family. Supporting their kids or supporting their parents.
Show Links:
Korean food mentioned:
Sean and James have been exploring Byron Katie's book Loving What Is for the past four weeks. According to the book, suffering occurs when we believe our stressful thoughts. Through self-inquiry, the author describes how “The Work” can help us manage our difficult emotions. She suggests asking these four questions:
In this episode, James and Sean discuss dealing with anxiety relating to their parents, the show, and some big developments happening at Clever FM—the rollout of new features, fundraising, and going to market.
Find out how “The Work” turned their situations around and helped them deal with the difficult feelings they’ve encountered recently.
This week, Sean and James talk about: Loving What Is and practicing Byron Katie’s inquiry method.
“The Work” is a conscious effort to process difficult feelings in personal relationships
Sean [00:13:50]: That's what it is. It's like, once you've incorporated The Work, and create your life, things that you used to find painful or frustrated about, just any kind of discomfort, you feel joy. And that's what I feel like when I feel discomfort, it rings a bell. It's like, “Hey, do the work.”
Echoing the challenges of CEOs when it comes to prioritizing feedback
Sean [00:25:06]: As a CEO of a startup, you're in sales mode. You're always trying to sell the company. I wouldn't say it's hard to listen to feedback, but it's hard to listen to a bunch of different feedback from different people and then be able to prioritize what is actually a signal. Like, what's actually important. What's actually going to move the needle in terms of customer acquisition or customer retention? And what's just like, “Hey, it'd be nice if I have this.”
Luck is All About Creating Your Own Opportunities
James [00:31:59]: I was thinking about how luck actually is equal to effort times attempts. Where effort is a scale of zero to one and attempts is one to infinite. I think in your case, you're saying like, “Oh, it's lucky that we get to talk to Andreessen Horowitz.” But actually, it's you who put in the effort, even if it was 50% or 80% of your effort, one day or another, but you put in thousands of attempts, and that is what luck.
“Peace doesn't require two people; it requires only one. It has to be you. The problem begins and ends there.”― Byron Katie, Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life
Byron Katie's book, Loving What Is, has been the focus of Sean and James' discussion in the past few weeks. The pair discussed how they have been applying “the inquiry” to their daily lives.
In this episode, they share advice on releasing yourself from issues that shouldn't even be your own. Listen as they discuss letting go of thoughts that disturb your inner peace and create conflict in your life.
This week, Sean and James talk about: Loving What Is and practicing Byron Katie’s inquiry method.
Freeing yourself to do what you want and need to do with peace
Sean [00:09:30]: When you're able to remove these things, these stories that bother you, what it does is actually frees you up to get stuff done. Or to be productive, or maybe productive, is not the right word, but to advance or progress in whatever it is that you want to do and be at peace with it.
When you make things all about you, you add up unnecessary problems in your life
Sean [00:16:11]: All these problems start because I make it about me. I say, “James, you know what? You're not listening to me because you don't respect me, James. You're not like taking my advice because you don't believe what I'm saying.” I started telling myself these stories, maybe not consciously, but that's really what's going on inside my head. Right?
How assumptions and internal thoughts usually cause misunderstandings and rifts
James [00:20:55]: I was thinking about what you’re saying. When you internalize something as your own problem, a lot of times, I think the reason why the language, when you speak to the person is harsher is that you've had these internal thoughts, a made-up version of what you think they think. And you've argued with them internally, and you just get angrier, and that anger then comes out when you actually talk to that person.
Freeing yourself from to give space for things that matter
Sean [00:24:11]: I feel like this book has given me the right tools now to stop thinking I can fix other people's problems. And again, just pay more attention to myself. In a very weird way, even though I just said it's hard, I actually find it much easier because I am within my control. I can't change Sheena. I can't change my wife. I can't change my parents. But I can change myself. And, when I stopped trying to fix other people or blame other people for the problem, I actually create a lot of space for myself.
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie
The Work (And Resources, by Byron Katie)
With people catching up with deliverables leftover work from the holiday, following up on projects, and people getting sick left and right, it is hard not to feel overwhelmed with everything that needs to get done.
It's impossible to avoid overthinking things when we're constantly bombarded by our own thoughts to succeed. In a world that hides failure and encourages comparison and competition, how can we learn to move forward and avoid paralysis by analysis?
In this episode, Sean and James discuss how we can do better by becoming the difference we want to make in our lives. Listen as they explain how taking action now, being different, and risking failure propels us forward.
Sean and James' discussion circles back to living in the present, as they encourage us to reflect on the fact that we are where we are because it is where we need to be. This week it’s all about:
Blaming others will only make you feel more helpless
Sean [00:11:24]: I think what makes us feel trapped is when we buy into these stories that we tell ourselves. But these stories are about other people. We’re trying to put the blame or shift the blame onto other people, right? But the problem is that you can't change other people. You can't change other people's situations, you know? Archie can't just instantly feel better, right? If I keep buying that story, I feel helpless.
Societies and communities should encourage failure because it promotes learning
James [00:21:09]: You're going to have to fail at multiple things to learn how to do something. It’s just a natural part of growth. And for some reason, for us, in society, we don't talk about failure very often. You know, the word failure is just very negative. I can't help but think very negative things about it, right? “Oh, you failed. You're a failure,” but in fact, it should actually be a very positive thing. We should try to fail at something almost every day, in the sense that then we're going to be learning something every day.
The only way you change something is to do something different, right now
James [00:28:17] The only way to change something, the only way to get something different, is by doing the different thing right now. And change happens in hindsight, right? Because no matter what we want to do, if we think that like, “Oh, I should be doing this. I could be doing this. I should have done that.” These are all things that we can do right now.
Show Links:
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie
The Work (And Resources, by Byron Katie)
Greenlights by Matthew McConaughey
Epictetus, the Greek philosopher, said that we are disturbed not by what happens to us but by what we think will happen in the future. We are often disturbed by the feeling that we should have handled things differently and what to do next. We tend to plan for the future too much.
When you're trying to imagine your life and make a difference, this might seem contradictory. No matter whether you're an entrepreneur or not, worrying about the future can drive you crazy—you either worry too much, feel hopeless, or feel anxious.
In this episode, Sean and James discuss the questions Byron Katie asks in her book. They use their struggles as guides in exploring how to accept, embrace, and love what is.
In this episode, Sean and James talked about how to apply Loving What Is and the four questions by Byron Katie. They share their experiences surrounding depression—how it's not about trying to find actionable things and making decisions, but it's more about just doing and creating space for things to happen.
Actively do something to help make you feel better
James [00:10:32]: Byron Katie talks about how this is God's business. These are things that are not in our control, and it's not that it's something that we dismiss, right? I think her point is that we can't let it bring us down. And we can't let it paralyze us. If we think about it so much, and we make it our business, which some people do —I think some people really actively make it their business —fundraisers or rescue missions or go help out like big actually go do things. It means that it's not in their control. Right? It's actually not, but they're actively doing something to make them feel better, do something about it.
Why the band-aids we use to cover our depression can also prevent us from moving forward
James [00:03:59]: A big change or decision in my life to really ignore what this underlying feeling of pain might be coming from. Right? Like what depression is. And for me, it was using writing as a way to express how I felt, but somehow it became a band-aid, and I was ignoring what I was, how I was feeling.
Loving what is, is not imposing happiness, it's about acceptance and acknowledgment
Sean [00:08:34]: I think part of it's just this imposition on yourself that, for you to be happy, for you to not be depressed, you need to change. And I think just that belief is causing you to be unhappy, to be depressed. That you aren't already amazing the way you are, that you're writing that way, that we're doing this podcast, isn't already fine. Then you’re not loving what is, which is what’s happening now.
Thoughts about how you can stay to be “in the moment”
James [00:03:59]: Being in reality, it's really weird. Like this idea and the concept of being in the present, but how it's so difficult. It's a very strange thing, right? We only live in this moment. And if you break down the present to a single second, the way I thought about it is that the power of now is that this single second. It is actually the only link in time where we control the past in the future at the same time. Because as time progresses, the current present turns into the past, but it also turns into the future at the same time.
When we're too focused thinking of decisions that need to be made, even if it's not happening yet, we miss out on things
Sean [00:17:30]: When we live as simply as that, open waiting, trusting, and loving to do what appears in front of us now, what we need to do unfolds before us. Doing the dishes, paying the bills, picking up the children's socks, brushing our teeth. We never received more than we can handle. There's always just one thing to do. Whether you have $10 or $10 million, life never gets more difficult than that. What she's saying is that it's not that we don't make decisions. It's that we try to live in this life of decision-making versus just doing.
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie
The Work (And Resources, by Byron Katie)
Your level of satisfaction is closely linked to your acceptance of reality. In spite of tons of materials on accepting reality, most days, the mere concept is hard to comprehend. That's because accepting yourself is closely tied to accepting reality.
What happens when we resist reality? How do we respond when God's business and the reality of other people's lives affect us? In this episode, James and Sean tackle the hard work we need to do to accept ourselves and our realities.
This week, Sean and James had real and raw conversations about God's business, depression, things that we can and can't, and how to act. They dig a little deeper into the book, Loving What Is.
Actively do something to help make you feel better
James [00:10:32]: Byron Katie talks about how this is God's business. These are things that are not in our control, and it's not that it's something that we dismiss, right? I think her point is that we can't let it bring us down. And we can't let it paralyze us. If we think about it so much, and we make it our business, which some people do —I think some people really actively make it their business —fundraisers or rescue missions or go help out like big actually go do things. It means that it's not in their control. Right? It's actually not, but they're actively doing something to make them feel better, do something about it.
When you’re pressured to fight the thoughts of depression
Sean [00:25:38]: It's okay to be depressed if I want to feel depressed, and it's okay for me to feel depressed. And then I think fighting the reality that we shouldn't be depressed, that just makes us even more depressed because we're just like, “why am I still depressed”?
The hard work you need to do to accept your reality
Sean [00:28:02]: I think that's one of the problems is that just not easy. I mean, it's not supposed to be easy, right. It's not supposed to be simple. You wake up one day, and you're magically fixed. You read one article, and you're magically fixed. There's so much work, like the work that has to go behind it. You have to inquire yourself. You have to really dig deep and fish out all the weird thoughts and things that you're afraid of to actually get past it. And a lot of people don't want to do that. A lot of people think it might not be necessary. Also, some people might not even know what the next step is actually.
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie
The Work (And Resources, by Byron Katie)
Life is full of struggles. This is especially true for entrepreneurs who wake up thinking of new ways to solve the world's problems. What if the problems around you aren't your own?
Those of us looking to effect change often focus our energy on how to change those around us—how they treat and speak to us. In this episode, Sean and James discuss Katie Byron’s book Loving What Is, enjoying the present, and letting go of things outside your control. Listen as they share how changing yourself can trigger the shift in mindset that you want to create in others.
Sean and James both realized that one of the hard parts of why we struggle is that we’re not accepting our reality. One of the things that the book, Loving What Is, does is that it goes over four questions to help you realize and accept where you are now, and then what you can do about it.
The reality is, it just is
James [00:13:59]: Regardless of what happens, you don't tie a good or bad to it. It just is. And you just love what is. You'll love what happens, regardless of it, being good or bad. It sounds like what it's saying is the way to get past this struggling to feel productive is, even if you are not, or if you were, either way, it doesn't matter. Either way, it just is.
On letting go of things that are not your problem
Sean [00:16:39]: How do you treat someone when you are holding on to that problem? You don't treat them very well. You don't communicate very effectively. To really affect change, you have to change yourself first. So, I have to first let go of the problem and be like, “You know what? James is being annoying is really not my problem. My problem is that I'm annoyed, and I can let that go”. I don't have to be annoyed. I feel like I would be a much more effective communicator. I wouldn't be antagonistic in the way that I talk to you.
Be the change that you want to see in others
Sean [00:17:54]: This goes to, you know, you can't love others before loving yourself. In fact, along the same lines, you can't change others. You shouldn't try to change others. You can't. There are so many stories about this, but finishing my thought, you can't change anything. Not even others. You can't change the world unless you change yourself. And that's like, there's a common quote around that, right? To change the world, you have first to change yourself. And I never quite grasped that until reading this book.
Live in the present
Sean [00:27:09]: You're living in the future. The Power of Now talks a lot about this. People can either live in the present or the future. And a lot of people who are miserable live in either the past or the future, right? They can't live in the now. You, having those dreams and aspirations, it’s not a problem. That is what we're supposed to be having, but you, trying to live in the future by comparing it to today, is causing you a lot of distress. Because you're just like, “I'm not there yet. I want to be that right now”.
Loving What Is: Four Questions That Can Change Your Life, by Byron Katie
The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment, by Eckhart Tolle
From the publisher's feed
The Struggles Podcast is where we talk about all the things we struggled with in our weekly lives. Real life, real talk, real struggles of real human beings delivered to you weekly. Mental health…
*The Struggles Podcast is produced by Ventures FM.*