The Symbolic World

I speak with Andrew Stokich, co-founder of Logos Cinema, about building a home for beautiful Christian storytelling. We discuss the limits of modern Christian film, the need to recover deeper symbolic stories, and Logos Cinema’s vision for supporting Orthodox filmmakers and audiences.

Special discount link: https://www.logoscinema.com/the-symbolic-world-summit 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/LATR7_QsQLY

Paradise Imagined. Join us from September 24–26, 2026 for a summit, hosted by Symbolic World in St Giles’, Oxford, United Kingdom at Pusey House. Only 150 tickets will be sold. Don't miss out. https://symbolicworldsummit.com/

http://www.thesymbolicworld.com

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe

In this episode (Part 3 on our series that will soon become about Persia), we continue reading The Cave of Treasures with Deacon Seraphim, looking at Noah, the world before the flood, the strange traditions around the Ark, and how Adam, Paradise, priesthood, and Melchizedek are all carried through the waters into the new world.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/IMd160ye1OM

Register now and get 15% off the Universal History Masterclass! https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/universal-history-masterclass

Part 1: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=thM3QIB4jcwnqpzu
Part 2: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUU?si=odQ6p9ehqS912PEb

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation I speak with Gregg Hurwitz about his new Orphan X novel, Antihero, and the surprising role Orthodox Christianity plays in the story. We discuss the assassin who is forced to face mercy, the limits of violence, the exhaustion of modern storytelling, and why we may need a new kind of hero, one who can hold together justice, sacrifice, and humanity.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpZnZWdPGk

Gregg Hurwitz books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B001IXPXTG
Latest Novella, The Delivery: https://www.amazon.com/Delivery-Novella-Gregg-Hurwitz-ebook/dp/B0FX5Y9FQG
Antihero: https://www.amazon.com/Antihero-Orphan-Novel-11/dp/1250479916

📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation with Rachel Wilson, we discuss the strange inversion at the heart of modern feminism, its occult and anti-Christian roots, and the way it has turned women against motherhood, marriage, the family, and even the feminine itself.
We also look at abortion, witchcraft, gender, the destruction of womanhood, and the vision of marriage as a path of sacrifice, love, and mutual self-giving.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DKliIG90YDw

Follow Rachel Wilson’s work:
X: https://x.com/Rach4Patriarchy 
Substack: https://rwilson.substack.com/ 
Get her book, Occult Feminism: The Secret History of Women’s Liberation: https://www.amazon.com/Occult-Feminism-Secret-History-Liberation/dp/B09NGXZKHB
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@rachel.wilson


📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

In this conversation with Deacon Seraphim Rohlin, we continue our exploration of Genesis through the Syrian tradition, looking especially at Seth (Adam and Eve’s son after Cain and Abel), the Nephilim, and the fall of the sons of God. What begins as a discussion of the descendants of Seth becomes a way of understanding the descent from the holy mountain, the corruption of Cain’s line, and the strange traditions around giants, demons, music, desire, and the second fall before the flood.

YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/3D2bRWrbKUU
Episode 1 of this series: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY?si=cJE6aczhbDx13AoI

Fr. Stephen De Young talking about Nephilim with Tucker Carlson: https://youtu.be/5x9vR5sKHFI?si=nBh9exyV3jkGYtWs

📕 Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

📢 Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Books (outside of the Bible) mentioned:
The Cave of Treasures
The Book of the Bee
Book of Enoch
Book of Adam
Kebra Nagast
Jubilees

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

This is a talk I presented at Chesterton Academy of Ottawa earlier this year. 

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ETaRAauDxS0

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:51 - Intro music
01:05 - Chesterton Academy introduction
03:28 - Jonathan begins: art, AI, education, and the Pope’s encyclical
05:53 - Why AI is not human intelligence
08:18 - AI lacks embodied understanding
10:47 - Money, efficiency, power, and the values behind AI
13:07 - The Moloch trap and the AI arms race
15:32 - AI’s impact on work and education
17:01 - The anti-human vision of technocracy
18:40 - What education is really for
21:05 - Why learn art in the age of AI?
23:50 - Little Red Riding Hood promotion
24:46 - Remember, celebrate, and create
25:57 - Remembering our stories and traditions
29:36 - Celebrate what is good
33:16 - Create in service of remembrance and celebration
37:11 - Sincerity after irony and cynicism
39:32 - Fairy tales, icons, and Christian visual language
42:58 - Graphic novels, saints, and medieval storytelling
44:28 - The challenge and opportunity of our time
46:27 - Q: Is pessimism about AI justified?
48:32 - Q: How can remembrance, celebration, and creation be transmitted practically in schools and families?
53:23 - Q: Should schools return to oral exams and oral presentations because of AI?
55:52 - Q: How much can we participate in or use AI without falling into the trap?
58:31 - Q: What does cave art reveal about the relationship between man and art? Is art the signature of man?
01:03:02 - Q: What is the difference between inventing something new and creating?
01:07:20 - Q: Do strict rules in art stifle creativity? Why do people say beauty is subjective?
01:10:04 - Q: How can we recover a true remembrance of the Middle Ages rather than seeing them as dark or backward?
01:14:55 - Q: What is the difference between reading traditional stories and watching movies for entertainment?
01:19:02 - Q: Why was beauty dismissed from art, and why is our built environment so ugly?
01:21:07 - Q: What is your favorite piece of art in your home?
01:23:28 - Q: Can AI be used as a Socratic interlocutor in education?
01:26:36 - Q: What is the value of teaching classical languages like Latin and ancient Greek?
01:27:45 - Q: How should young artists balance pursuing art with the need to make money?
01:30:50 - Q: What is the importance of boredom, rest, silence, and imagination?
01:33:15 - Q: Is re-enchantment, post-irony, and sincerity possible in an intentional way?
01:37:08 - Q: How can different traditions unite against AI without losing their distinctiveness?
01:41:39 - Q: How do we discern beauty in imperfect work, especially in a performative society focused on excellence?
01:44:02 - Q: Where do you think AI is going, especially in education and culture?

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

There’s a lot of expectation and noise around Christopher Nolan’s upcoming movie, The Odyssey (2026). For decades after WW2 we were unable to tell many stories about kingship and fatherhood. As we move through the turbulent end of the WW2 consensus, stories like this form part of how we process the return of the father and identity.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/6prGX3wZKI8

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free. More than our other fairy tales, this one emphasizes the importance of the father’s role in protecting his family from the strange and subversive. https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

Backrooms (2026) is a recent horror/thriller film based on a creepypasta —an internet urban legend— that emerged around the time of the Covid lockdowns. A man discovers an infinite, labyrinthine expanse of "backrooms" that becomes increasingly disturbing.

In this video, I analyze the symbolism of the film and explore the deeper reasons why it is so popular, outshining major blockbusters with much larger budgets and marketing campaigns. Enjoy.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/ZK6NaFsBGaM

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

I had a discussion with Gavin Ortlund about the Orthodox Church's position on salvation outside the church.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/RtC8ENpbOW4

Buy Little Red Riding Hood now during the month of June and get the audiobook with for free: https://store.thesymbolicworld.com/

Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel 

Timestamps
00:00 Introduction and background to the discussion
03:08 Steelmanning each other’s positions
04:12 Gavin summarizes the Orthodox view of salvation
05:37 Jonathan explains salvation as healing and theosis
06:36 Normative and non-normative ways of salvation
08:13 Jonathan summarizes Gavin’s historical argument
10:53 Gavin clarifies his thesis about Orthodoxy, Catholics, and Protestants
16:40 Is the modern Orthodox view a return to earlier tradition?
18:32 Gavin explains why the 9th–19th century period matters
20:20 Disagreement over whether individuals can be declared damned
22:57 Jonathan responds on Orthodox theological boundaries
24:54 Debate over the 9th century and the Photian schism
31:32 The question: Is Gavin a Christian brother?
38:37 The Synod of Jerusalem and Protestant theology
41:36 Jonathan reads from the Synod of Jerusalem
43:56 Gavin responds to Jonathan’s use of an old blog post
46:42 Gavin outlines the Synod’s language about Protestants
49:12 Jonathan argues synods define norms, not individual destinies
52:28 Gavin challenges the “normative” reading of the Synod
55:20 Normative texts, dogmatic authority, and qualifications
58:13 Theophan the Recluse and hope for the non-Orthodox
01:04:16 St. Philaret of Moscow and leaving souls to God’s mercy
01:09:35 Protestant missions in Orthodox lands
01:11:23 Gavin defends Protestant missionary theology
01:13:30 Jonathan critiques Protestant evangelism and denominationalism
01:16:21 The Eucharist, communion, and institutional exclusivism
01:18:16 Gavin explains why he is not Orthodox
01:20:44 Jonathan on Christ’s presence and God’s desire to save all
01:21:59 Are Protestants categorized like Buddhists or Muslims?
01:25:36 Salvation as transformation into the image of Christ
01:28:55 Theophan’s advice: focus on your own salvation
01:30:06 Personal holiness and evangelism
01:32:18 Calvinism, evangelism, and divine decree
01:36:52 Predestination, foreknowledge, and the River of Fire
01:39:59 Closing the theological discussion
01:40:33 Gavin’s apology and reflections on online discourse
01:42:59 A call for patient Protestant-Orthodox dialogue
01:44:12 Jonathan’s closing thanks

🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau  

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488 

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/ 
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/