In this episode of The UpWords Podcast, host Jean Geran sits down with Dr. Chris Seiple, a renowned global leader in the fields of human rights, diplomacy, and religious freedom. Together, they explore what it means to be a responsible Christian citizen in today’s polarized world.

Through the lens of “covenantal pluralism,” Chris shares insights from decades of experience working at the intersection of Christian faith, education, and public life. The conversation covers the threefold nature of Christian citizenship—loyalty to our country, the world, and first and foremost, the Kingdom of God. They discuss the importance of loving our neighbors, engaging respectfully with those we disagree with, and preparing the next generation through higher education to be thoughtful, principled citizens.

Chris and Jean also address current challenges, including religious nationalism, polarization, and the contentious debates around diversity and inclusion in academia. They share practical suggestions for building relationships across diverse communities, overcoming fear, and living out faith in tangible ways at both the local and global levels.

Whether you’re a student, educator, faith leader, or community member, this episode offers timely wisdom and encouragement for anyone seeking to be a peacemaker and agent of flourishing in a pluralistic society.

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Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this thought-provoking episode of the Upword Podcast, host Dan Johnson sits down with Mark Matlock to explore the shifting spiritual landscape in America. Drawing from his latest book, Faith for the Curious, and years of research with Barna Group, Mark unpacks the rise of the “spiritually curious” — a growing group of people who are open to spirituality but not necessarily aligned with traditional Christian beliefs.

Together, they discuss:

• The difference between the spiritually curious, curious skeptics, and naturalists
• How Gen Z is both in revival and retreat — and what that means for the Church
• Why traditional evangelism methods may fall short in today’s culture
• The importance of long-term relationships over quick conversions
• How churches can better engage those deconstructing their faith
• The role of curiosity, ambiguity, and meaningful relationships in discipleship

Whether you're a ministry leader, student, or simply curious about faith trends, this episode offers deep insights into how we can better understand and walk alongside those exploring spirituality in a post-Christian world.

🔗 Resources & Links:

• Learn more about Faith for the Curious = https://shop.barna.com/collections/featured-work/products/faith-for-the-curious
• Explore Barna’s research on Gen Z and spiritual openness
• Connect with Mark Matlock at markmatlock.com

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this episode, host Daniel Johnson sits down with Michael Huerter, author of The Hybrid Congregation: A Practical Theology of Worship for an Online Era. Michael shares insights from his research and ministry experience, exploring how churches can faithfully navigate the evolving landscape of digital and hybrid worship. From theology to technology, embodiment to community, this conversation offers a thoughtful and hopeful vision for the future of worship in a digitally integrated world.

What is a Hybrid Congregation?

• Michael defines hybrid congregations as communities that blend traditional in-person worship with digital practices, emphasizing that most churches already operate along this spectrum.

Theology of Digital Embodiment

• Drawing on scholars like Pete Phillips and Teresa Berger, Michael discusses how embodiment persists even in digital spaces and how online worship can still be deeply relational and spiritual.

Music in Hybrid Worship

• Michael reflects on the evolving role of music in digital settings, balancing participatory and presentational approaches, and shares creative examples from his research.
• Sacraments in a Digital World
• From virtual baptisms to home communion, Michael explores how different traditions are reimagining sacramental practices in hybrid contexts.

Community & Spiritual Formation

• Practical strategies for fostering genuine community and discipleship across physical and digital spaces, including empowering online members to lead and serve.
• Technology, Discernment & the Church
• A call for churches to resist fear-based or tech-obsessed extremes and instead adopt a people-first, discerning approach to digital ministry.

The Future of Worship

• Michael shares his vision for a church that resists fragmentation and embraces digital tools to deepen connection, compassion, and Christlikeness.

• 📖 The Hybrid Congregation: A Practical Theology of Worship for an Online Era by Michael Huerter (InterVarsity Press)
• 📊 Pew Research on church attendance and online worship trends in 2025
• 🧠 Scholars referenced: Pete Phillips (Spurgeon’s College), Teresa Berger (Yale Divinity School)
• 🎥 Watch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/E8tdXaTHPIc

• 🌐 Learn more about the S.L. Brown Foundation and Upper House: slbf.org
• 📬 Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app
• 💬 Share your thoughts and feedback with us!

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Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this episode, host Susan Smetzer Anderson sits down with acclaimed author Mitali Perkins to explore the intersection of art, justice, vocation, and faith. Drawing from her latest book, Just Making: A Guide for Compassionate Creatives, Mitali shares her journey as a Bengali American writer, her passion for justice, and how creatives can sustain their work in a chaotic world.

Together, they reflect on how art can be a vehicle for shalom—a vision of universal flourishing—and how artists can navigate internal doubts, external pressures, and the temptation to turn art into propaganda or kitsch. Mitali also offers practical wisdom on embracing ancient spiritual practices, finding courage to share your work, and building creative community.

• 📺 Watch this episode on YouTube = https://youtu.be/DehNMpdp0Yo
• 🌐 Learn more about Mitali Perkins and her work: mitaliperkins.com
• 📖 Explore the S.L. Brown Foundation and Upper House: slbf.org

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

This special episode of The UpWords Podcast features clips from talks given at Upper House in the Spring of 2025. Upper House Commons gathers the university community for spiritual, intellectual, and vocational formation. We explore big ideas and engage in conversations that matter within arts and humanities, justice and society, leadership and vocation, science and technology, spiritual formation, and theology. Whether you are a student or faculty member at UW-Madison or beyond, working in the marketplace, or serving in the church, we see you as part of our university community. Gather with us for one of our programs —our “commons”— each a pasture for shared spiritual, intellectual, and vocational formation.

Talk 1️⃣ = Reimagining Our Moment for Whatever Comes Next - with Anne Snyder (Recorded on January 30, 2025)

• Spotify = https://open.spotify.com/episode/2fPLQhx0cdsXvUxzqP0YR3?si=Z4vbxvJMQM-fzwRKhhGkIQ
• Apple Podcasts = https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/upper-house-events/id1715922039?i=1000688980527
• YouTube = https://youtu.be/Pg6ODIUp8yQ

Talk 2️⃣ = Can Fiction Deliver What Technology Can't? - with Casandra Nelson (Recorded on February 14, 2025)

• Spotify = https://open.spotify.com/show/5CosoSlCWKmUShqnEK75Re?si=74f6cd9ca9584036
• Apple Podcasts =https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/upper-house-events/id1715922039
• YouTube = https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4uGiIvJTDePJylcsh84USjIpVkibpuM2

Talk 3️⃣ = What Can Evangelicals Teach Us About Beauty? - Karen Swallow Prior (Recorded on March 14, 2025)

• Spotify = https://open.spotify.com/show/5CosoSlCWKmUShqnEK75Re?si=74f6cd9ca9584036
• Apple Podcasts =https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/upper-house-events/id1715922039
• YouTube = https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4uGiIvJTDePTHdNbYsoMMf8ZX80eEUet

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this conversation, host Daniel Johnson welcomes Angie Ward to explore the themes of church and parachurch dynamics, the evolution of ecclesiology, and the impact of technology on community. Angie shares her journey of writing her book, Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension, and discusses the historical context of church structures. They delve into the definition of church in today's landscape, emphasizing the importance of embodied community and the role of technology. Angie proposes a new understanding of parachurch as 'missional extensions,' highlighting the interconnectedness of all believers in a global ecosystem. In this conversation, Angie Ward discusses the principles of effective collaboration between churches and parachurch organizations, emphasizing the importance of open-handedness and a kingdom-minded approach. She explores the need for a collaborative ecosystem where different ministries recognize their roles and work together for a greater impact. The discussion also touches on the skepticism some church leaders have towards parachurch ministries and the necessity for these organizations to connect with local churches. Angie reflects on the current changes in the church landscape, likening it to a 'rummage sale' where old structures are being questioned and new opportunities for collaboration are emerging. Finally, she expresses hope for the next generation of leaders who are willing to learn from past mistakes and innovate for the future.

Angie Ward (PhD, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary) is director of the Doctor of Ministry program and associate professor of leadership and ministry at Denver Seminary. She is the author of Uncharted Leadership: 20 Case Studies to Help Ministry Leaders Adapt to Uncertainty and I Am a Leader: When Women Discover the Joy of Their Calling. Angie has over thirty-five years of leadership experience in church, nonprofit, and higher education ministry. A sportswriter in a previous life, Angie loves running, basketball, humor, and movies. She and her pastor-husband live in Denver. They have two grown sons and one very spoiled beagle.

📙 Link to Beyond Church and Parachurch: From Competition to Missional Extension

https://www.ivpress.com/beyond-church-and-parachurch

Takeaways

• The book is a culmination of a seven to nine year journey in ministry.
• Angie had an 'aha' moment questioning traditional church leadership models.
• The pandemic accelerated questions about the future of church and ministry.
• Church and parachurch are loaded terms with various interpretations.
• The local church is often seen as a building, while parachurch refers to Christian ministries outside of it.
• Historical context shows that ministry has always existed outside of local church structures.
• The definition of church should include both local and global perspectives.
• Embodiment in community is crucial for spiritual formation.
• Technology can aid in ministry but should not replace embodied experiences.
• Parachurch organizations can serve as missional extensions of the church. Open-handedness is crucial for effective collaboration.
• Churches and parachurch organizations need to recognize their interdependence.
• There are many campuses without a gospel presence that need outreach.
• Success in ministry may not always be visible immediately.
• Discipleship involves guiding people towards a broader understanding of church.
• The church is undergoing significant changes, akin to a 'rummage sale.'
• We must be hopeful amidst the changes in the church.
• The next generation is eager to innovate and make a difference.
• Collaboration can lead to greater impact

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this episode of the UpWords Podcast, Scott Cairns, a distinguished poet and educator, discusses the intersection of poetry, faith, and the creative process. He shares insights on the value of a liberal education, the role of poetry in society, and how his Christian faith informs his work. Cairns emphasizes the importance of community, mentorship, and the spiritual dimensions of writing, illustrating how these elements contribute to his artistic journey.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Poetry and Faith

02:57 The Value of a Liberal Education

05:54 The Role of Poetry in Society

09:02 Scott Karens' Poetic Journey

11:49 The Intersection of Poetry and Spirituality

14:49 Creative Process and Writing Routine

18:08 Influences and Community in Poetry

21:01 The Role of Mentorship in Artistic Growth

24:09 Faith and the Poet's Vocation

30:00 Conclusion and Reflections on Art and Prayer

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this episode of the UpWords Podcast, Dan Hummel interviews John Wilsey, a professor and author, about his book, Religious Freedom: A Conservative Primer. They explore the broader themes of conservatism, emphasizing its historical roots, the importance of tradition, and the concept of aspirational conservatism. The conversation delves into key figures in conservative thought, the role of the conservative imagination, and the significance of religious freedom in contemporary society.

John D. Wilsey is professor of church history and chair of the Department of Church History and Historical Theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He is also a research fellow with the Center for Religion, Culture, and Democracy. His publications include American Exceptionalism and Civil Religion: Reassessing the History of an Idea, God’s Cold Warrior: The Life and Faith of John Foster Dulles, and Religious Freedom: A Conservative Primer.

Chapters

00:00 Exploring Conservatism Beyond Politics

05:07 The Role of Tradition in Conservatism

11:18 Aspirational Conservatism Explained

19:24 Key Figures in Conservative Thought

39:27 The Conservative Imagination and Inner Life

46:26 Religious Freedom and Its Importance

Takeaways

• Conservatism is more than just politics; it's a worldview.
• Tradition plays a crucial role in understanding conservatism.
• Aspirational conservatism seeks to align with transcendent values.
• Key figures like Burke, Kirk, and Virick shape conservative thought.
• The conservative imagination informs our inner life and values.
• Religious freedom is essential for a flourishing society.
• Conservatives should advocate for the rights of all, including minorities.
• History is a vital aspect of the Christian faith and conservatism.
• Conservatives must manage change rather than resist it.
• The relationship between freedom and responsibility is fundamental.

Send us Fan Mail

CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

In this conversation, we welcome fan favorite, Byron Borger, back to the podcast. Along with host Daniel Johnson, they discuss the importance of reading as an embodied experience, the significance of seasonal reading aligned with the liturgical calendar, and the recent resurgence of work and faith materials. He emphasizes the challenges college graduates face transitioning into the workforce and the importance of integrating faith into their work lives.

The podcast also highlights various books that can aid in this transition and the necessity of community support for maintaining faith post-college. In this conversation, Byron discusses the importance of balancing vocation and rest, the beauty of nature as explored through literature, and the need for community engagement in environmental care. They highlight books that inspire readers to appreciate creation, engage in ecological restoration, and reflect on personal narratives through memoirs. The discussion emphasizes the interconnectedness of faith, nature, and personal growth, encouraging listeners to explore these themes in their own lives.

We encourage you to purchase your books at Heartsandminds Bookstore. Learn more about them here = https://www.heartsandmindsbooks.com/

List of books:

1. After College by Erica Young Reitz (2025, InterVarsity Press)
2. Serious Dreams: Bold Ideas for the Rest of Your Life edited by Byron Borger (2015, Square Halo Books)
3. The Call: Finding and Fulfilling God's Purpose for Your Life by Os Guinness (2003, Thomas Nelson)
4. Visions of Vocation: Common Grace for the Common Good by Steven Garber (2014, IVP Books)
5. Why Your Work Matters: How God Uses Our Everyday Vocations to Transform Us, Our Neighbors, and the World by Tom Nelson (2025, Made to Flourish)
6. Every Good Endeavor: Connecting Your Work to God's Work by Timothy Keller and Katherine Leary Alsdorf (2012, Dutton)
7. The Sacredness of Secular Work: Four Ways Your Job Matters for Eternity by Jordan Raynor (2025, WaterBrook)
8. Go Forth: God's Purpose for Your Work by Redeemer City to City (2025, Redeemer City to City)
9. Birds in the Sky and Fish in the Sea by Matthew Dickerson (2025, Square Halo Books)
10. Refugee of Faith: Seeking Hidden Shelters, Ordinary Wonders, and the Healing of the Earth by Deborah Rienstra (2025, Fortress Press)
11. Backpacking with the Saints: Wilderness Hiking as a Spiritual Practice by Belden Lane (2015, Oxford University Press)
12. Reconciliation in a Michigan Watershed: Restoring Kenoshae by Gail Hefner and David Warners (2025, Michigan State University Press)
13. Beyond Stewardship: New Approaches to Creation Care edited by David Warners (2025, Calvin College Press)
14. The Beauty of Dusk: On Vision Lost and Found by Frank Bruni (2022, Avid Reader Press)
15. Mr. Oweita's Guide to Gardening: How I Learned the Unexpected Joy of a Green Thumb and an Open Heart by Carol Wall (2014, G.P. Putnam's Sons)
16. God Struck: Seven Women and Their Religious Conversions by Kelsey Osgood (2025, HarperOne)

Chapters:

00:00 The Embodied Experience of Reading

04:29 Seasonal Reading and the Church Calendar

09:54 Navigating Work and Faith

16:50 Books for Transitioning Graduates

24:13 The Importance of Community in Transition

27:04 The Balance of Work and Rest

28:01 Exploring Nature Through Literature

30:16 Creating Habitats and Healing the Earth

31:42 Wilderness as a Spiritual Practice

36:09 Community Engagement and Environmental Stewardship

42:23 Reconciliation Ecology and Creation Care

43:30 Memoirs and Personal Stories

52:25 Summer Reading Recommendations

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CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour

Welcome to The UpWords Podcast, where we discuss the intersection of Christian faith in the academy, church, and marketplace. In today's episode, we are delighted to welcome painter and author Bruce Herman and Mia Chung-Yee — concert pianist, music professor, and executive director of the Octet Collaborative at MIT.

In this episode of the UpWords Podcast, hosts Daniel Johnson, Bruce Herman, and Mia Chung-Yee explore the profound connections between creativity, faith, and the arts. They discuss the legacy of composers like J.S. Bach and Mendelssohn, the personal journeys of the speakers in their artistic expressions, and the evolving role of music and art in spiritual and community life. The conversation emphasizes the importance of integrating art into worship and the discipline required in artistic practice, ultimately highlighting the shared human experience through creativity.

The speakers explore the intersection of faith, art, and academia, emphasizing the importance of grounding transcendence in reality. They discuss the role of discipline in worship and art, the challenges faced within the modern academy, and the tension between artistic expression and academic expectations. The conversation highlights the need for a holistic approach to education that embraces both the arts and sciences, encouraging young artists to integrate their faith into their creative endeavors while remaining humble and committed to their craft.

Host:

• Daniel Johnson

Guests:

• Bruce Herman: Painter, writer, and speaker
• Mia Chung-Yee: Concert pianist, music professor, and executive director of the Octet Collaborative at MIT

Guest Backgrounds:

Mia Chung-Yee:

• Internationally known concert pianist
• Founder and executive director of the Octet Collaborative, a Christian Study Center at MIT
• Winner of the Concert Artists Guild Competition (1993)
• Recipient of the Avery Fisher Career Grant (1997)
• Educational background: Bachelor's degree from Harvard College, Master's degree from Yale University, PhD from the Juilliard School
• Former Professor of Music and Artist in Residence at Gordon College (1991-2011)
• Current Professor of Musical Studies at the Curtis Institute of Music

Bruce Herman:

• Painter, writer, and speaker
• Art exhibited in over 150 national and international exhibitions
• Collections include the Vatican Museum of Modern Religious Art in Rome and various museums in the United States and Canada
• Nearly four decades of teaching at Gordon College, founding chair of the Art Department
• Educational background: BFA and MFA degrees from Boston University College of Fine Arts

Key Topics Discussed:

• The role of Christian faith in the arts and academia
• The intersection of faith and creativity in the marketplace
• Personal journeys and career highlights of Bruce Herman and Mia Chung-Yee
• Insights into the Octet Collaborative and its mission at MIT
• Reflections on the impact of faith on artistic expression and professional development
• The legacy of composers like J.S. Bach and Mendelssohn
• The evolving role of music and art in spiritual and community life
• The importance of integrating art into worship
• The discipline required in artistic practice
• The challenges faced within the modern academy
• The tension between artistic expression and academic expectations
• The need for a holistic approach to education that embraces both the arts and sciences
• Encouraging young artists to integrate their faith into their creative endeavors while remaining humble and committed to their craft

Send us Fan Mail

CONNECT WITH US
Subscribe to The UpWords Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and visit slbf.org/studio to learn more about our work at the intersection of faith, the academy, and the marketplace.

This episode was created by the SLBF STUDIO at Upper House.

Produced by Daniel Johnson and Dave Conour

Edited by Dave Conour