The Vertical Space

Welcome back to The Vertical Space and our conversation with Robert Rose, co-founder and CEO of Reliable Robotics.  

This is a conversation about autonomy. We discussed the arc of automation and, what evolved in the conversation, the arc of safety in aviation from its early days to today. You'll notice how Robert will closely and consistently link autonomy to safety in the beginning, throughout and at the end of the conversation; an irrefutable argument.  He essentially says autonomy is going to happen so get used to it. But he makes the hard medicine taste just a bit better by tying the key arguments to safety. 

We spend a bit of time on the motivation for pursuing autonomous flight by segment; GA, Part 135/121 with a safety imperative for automation being more required in the former than in the latter. After a few attempts, we eventually get to other reasons why autonomy is needed in addition to, and beyond the safety case. As we've discussed many times the podcasts, we discussed the need for autonomy for many of the advanced air mobility business models to scale, and to meet their financial projections.

Robert discusses the autonomous capabilities of Reliable Robotics, and as Robert says, what makes them unique is their ground up designs for automation and certification, where it's more difficult for others to go back and design for automation if that wasn't the original intention. We spent a lot of time discussing the processes required to certify automation systems, and get into a really interesting discussion around the design of their air to air radar, it's value, market size, and why build it on their own versus purchasing off the shelf radar and whether or not it's core to their autonomy focus or perhaps a distraction to that focus.  He wraps up his talk with great advice to entrepreneurs. 

Check out an in-depth and fast-moving discussion of certifying autonomy, next-gen avionics, and multi-core processors with Dr. Yemaya Bordain, President of the Americas for Daedalean.

Right out of the gate Yemaya challenges much of today’s established thinking on UAM: Listen to what she says is an area where very few in the industry agree with her on – and where she questions the near-term economic viability of the UAM model. And that she believes level 4 autonomy is needed for UAM economic viability – and listen to later in the podcast on when she believes level 4 autonomy may come about. Those investing in UAM should pay close attention here! 

We discuss the history of automation, the Why of automation, on a segment by segment basis, what has and will drive the need, and how does it scale, followed closely by a detailed discussion of the levels of automation, and the value of each– and why. And how safety improvements are the biggest near-term opportunities in this market. 

Listen to Yemaya’s first discussion with operators on autonomy – particularly commercial operators. The next part of the discussion is a detailed discussion on the future of avionics, starting with a discussion of Yemaya’s white paper.

Listen how to compute massive amounts of data to meet the size, weight, and power constraints of gravity. We enter into a detailed discussion on why AI needs multi-core processors and the difficulty of certifying MCPs and listen to Yemaya’s response to Luka’s question on whether or not there can be a generalized approach to certifying MCPs and how Yemaya thinks that autonomy and certification of AI and MCPs will change the existing value chain in avionics.

She also discusses at what levels of automation where Daedalean will be generating revenue, and in what markets, including AAM, over the next 10+ years. 

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for a deep dive into the medical delivery use case, or I should say another deep dive into this interesting topic. We’ve had guests in the past – notably Justin Steinke from Spright – where we talked about the medical delivery use case from an operator and drone expert perspective. This time, we get to hear from Stuart Ginn who besides having a professional aviation background is also a physician and therefore looks at the drone opportunity through the lens of a healthcare professional – somebody engaged in delivering healthcare and intimately familiar with the complexities associated with it. 

 We’ve covered a lot of ground in this conversation, starting with a description of the existing internal logistics systems within a large healthcare system, and more importantly its current problems that drones might successfully address. And we do this in the context of macro factors that healthcare faces in providing access to clinical services to rural areas. We compare the B2B medical drone delivery business model to that of the B2C consumer delivery and have a lively discussion around which is more likely to become a killer app first. 

 The opinion that the B2B medical drone delivery use case is a promising market opportunity is commonly shared in the industry. However, what is not adequately discussed is exactly how this value will be realized, what matters to hospitals, and what the ultimate product needs to look like to ensure wide adoption. Here’s where Stuart’s insights really stand out. For instance, instead of thinking about drones as part of a transportation system, Stuart believes they should be considered as an extension of the infrastructure, not unlike pneumatic tubes in hospitals today. As usual, we go deep, ask tough questions, and uncover interesting insights not widely shared.

Check out a terrific discussion with Paul Rinaldi, President of Rinaldi Consultants and served as President of the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA). 

Paul is the voice of today’s reality and tomorrow’s opportunities. In his crystal-clear messaging, he speaks to “the way it is” in air traffic. And by fully understanding the current state of air traffic, he helps to pave a way for opportunities for modernization – from technology that was already approved and purchased many years ago that has yet to be fully implemented, to technology today that could improve our system, to opportunities for tomorrow as we integrate all things into the vertical space. 

Thanks for joining us Paul!

9:02 Exploring the advantages of privatizing air traffic management

21:00 Current state of air traffic management in the U.S.

33:19 How technology can solve air traffic management pain points

45:13 Integrating new entrants (AAM) into the NAS. Should low-flying drones be segregated or integrated?

59:23 Is air traffic management an appealing opportunity for startups?

1:01:05 Common mistakes entrepreneurs make when selling into the ATM/ATC community

1:06:40 Air traffic controller shortage

An in-depth conversation with Carl Dietrich, Founder/CEO/CTO of Jump Aero – as he explains everything you want to know about Jump Aero as well as MOSAIC, the proposed Modernization of Special Airworthiness Certification rule – what Carl considers a transformational opportunity. 

We start with Carl’s professional arc through aviation from the Terrafugia days to Jump Aero, including involvement with the Part 23 rewrite and ASTM standards. We discuss the history of Light Sport Aircraft: when and why it was introduced and the significance to the GA market. 

The heart of the discussion is Carl’s context to what led up to the proposed MOSAIC rule. We discuss when MOSAIC was first proposed and why, how it changes the LSA definition, and, very cool, how significant this change could be to the growth of the GA and AAM markets, including  to potentially create a faster path to market for certain types of aircraft. 

In this episode we talk about something that has great relevance to traditional aviation, and that will become increasingly important to drone and other AAM concepts as their operations increase in scale and complexity – which is utilization of the most important physical assets in aviation -> aircraft and ground infrastructure. We have the pleasure of doing a deep dive into this interesting topic with Christiaan Hen, Chief Customer Officer at Assaia, a company with the vision to improve safety, efficiency, and capacity of the air transportation system by bringing transparency and order to ground operations.

We start the conversation with an analysis of the process of turning aircraft around at airport gates: the different parts of the process, the relevant metrics, the various stakeholders involved, and the limitations of existing methods used to manage the turnaround process and broadly gate management. As the scale of commercial air operations increased over the past several decades, with the corresponding commoditization of air travel, the pressure on the air transportation system to increase efficiency while maintaining safety has never been higher. Add capacity constraints at airports that are responsible for the majority of traffic, labor shortages, and ambitions to decarbonize aviation, and you quickly realize the importance of doing more with less, and to do it more predictably and consistently. Most of our conversation with Chris is about how to achieve that. 

As we discuss the benefits of Assaia’s solutions to existing aviation stakeholders, we draw parallels to AAM and how this is a market that will require greater transparency and optimization of ground operations – think high density drone operations, but with the benefit of freedom in infrastructure models and technology stacks that are not burdened with outdated legacy IT systems.

We also talk about the differences between Europe and North America as it relates to airport operations, state of the market, and willingness to invest in new technologies. 

Blunt converation with Pete Bunce, President & CEO of the General Aviation Manufacturers Association (GAMA). 

Pete combines a deep understanding of established aviation as well as advanced air mobility. He introduces competence, regulatory understanding, industry knowledge, and knowing how to get things done. Listen to Pete's vision of aviation and AAM - there's nothing superficial here.  

As you will see time and again, Pete calls it as he sees it. 

Pete is a great industry leader. Thanks Pete for joining us on The Vertical Space. 

Today will be a different kind of conversation. We, the hosts of The Vertical Space, provide reflections on the intersection of tech and flight that were the center point of our talk at Honeywell’s 2nd Annual Advanced Air Mobility Summit. 

We first discuss why we started the podcast and its success (thanks to you) – then Luka provides background on what has driven the need for AAM, then we together discuss the 4 takeaways from conversations with our podcast guests and from our own observations over the last few years. 

Hope you enjoy. 

Today's talk is with David Stepanek – the Executive Vice President and Chief Transformation Officer of Bristow.

So where we talk often talk to those building vehicles in AAM – here we have an industry leader who is committed to the opportunities of AAM – is confident that AAM will improve Bristow’s performance, reduce costs, and improve their position with sustainability. 

David describes how Bristow has the vision and are a leader in innovative and sustainable vertical flight solutions. 

Listen to what they project will be a meaningful cost reduction of AAM vs. the helicopters they’re operating today – both in reducing up front capital requirements as well as reducing long term operating costs – they believe they can reduce their direct operating costs by 60-70%. 

He believes Bristow will receive a meaningful return from AAM around 2030 – with a heavier contribution after 2035. 

He describes how urban air mobility will eventually be successful…it will probably be on a longer timeframe than most are thinking today…that there are a number of risks and challenges most are not considering today…and to scale will be more difficult than it first appears.

Listen to the section on where David believes is the most value in AAM – from OEM, to Operator, to MRO, to Infrastructure and Systems – great section…and his impression of where the greater value is may be a surprise to some.

As much as David and Bristow are leading their industry with AAM ….he’s also careful, realistic, and pragmatic in his approach – this is not just a cheerleader or a one-sided promoter of AAM – he has and you’ll be listening to a balanced perspective.

 Many thanks to David for joining us!