Phil and Steve Keen discuss Steve’s recent experience at the World Forum in Berlin, which he frames as a progressive "antidote" to the World Economic Forum. Their conversation touches on a wide range of global issues, including the conflicted leadership in the Palestinian Authority and Israel, the necessity of a two-state solution in Gaza, and the controversial role of figures like Hillary Clinton and Bob Geldof. A significant portion of the dialogue focuses on Steve’s proposal to expand the legal definition of ecocide to include criminal negligence, arguing that economists and corporations should face personal liability for their role in climate change. Phil remains sceptical of the practical enforceability of such laws given the entrenched interests of powerful nations, but both agree that current international agreements like COP are largely ineffective, serving more as a venue for fossil fuel lobbying than real environmental progress.

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