Think Inclusive

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Melissa McCullough is the Director of Early Childhood for the East Moline school district in Illinois, a pre‑K–8 district of about 2,700 students with roughly 200 children in its early childhood program. She started her career as a school social worker in an inclusion‑first district, brings that mindset to her current role, and is also a parent of three boys who are hard of hearing—experience that fuels her advocacy for inclusive preschool.

Tim Villegas talks with Melissa McCullough about what fully inclusive preschool looks like—and how her district moved away from “all‑or‑nothing” special education toward blended classrooms where related services are pushed in, teachers are dually certified, and supports are built around least restrictive environment from day one. A key milestone: the program began the 2021–22 school year with zero students in self‑contained placements. The conversation covers mindset shifts, partnering with families, strategic professional development, and using data and funding drivers (like Indicator 6 in Illinois) to sustain change.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/melissa-mccullough-what-inclusive-preschool-services-look-like/

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Eddie Fergus is an associate professor of urban education and policy at Temple University. A former high school teacher, program evaluator, and community school program director, his research focuses on the intersection of education policy and outcomes, with specific attention to Black and Latino boys, disproportionality in special education, suspensions, school climate, and access to advanced courses.

In this conversation, Eddie Fergus breaks down what “disproportionality” means in schools—when a student group is over‑ or under‑represented in programs like special education relative to their share of enrollment—and why it persists. He explains how practitioner mindsets (“shopping carts” of lived experience) and systemic design choices (e.g., wait‑to‑fail models) interact to produce inequitable outcomes. The discussion touches on Response to Intervention (RTI) and multi‑tiered supports, restorative practices as repair rather than punishment, and why the biggest barrier to inclusion may be the belief that only certain adults can teach students with disabilities.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/eddie-fergus-disproportionality-in-special-education/

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Megan Gross — Special education teacher (14 years) and teacher on special assignment supporting inclusive practices and leading professional learning for K–12 teams in the Poway Unified school district. 2017 California Teacher of the Year and co‑author of The Inclusion Toolbox (with Dr. Jenny Kurth) and ParaEducate (with Renay Marquez).

Nancy Brundrett — Special education instructional assistant (19 years) and the district’s first classified on special assignment, providing job‑embedded coaching for instructional assistants, supporting school teams to implement inclusive practices, and leading professional learning.

In this episode, host Tim Villegas talks with Megan Gross and Nancy Brundrett about how Poway Unified school district shifted from celebrated segregated programs to a system where all students are general education students first. They walk through the leadership moves, the opt‑in pilot approach, the creation of on‑special‑assignment roles, and the day‑to‑day coaching that make inclusion work in real classrooms.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/bonus-megan-gross-and-nancy-brundrett-what-inclusive-education-looks-like-at-poway-unified/

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Dr. Jennifer (“Jenny”) Kurth is an associate professor of special education at the University of Kansas. Her work centers on inclusive education for students with extensive and pervasive support needs, and she co-developed practical “participation plans” that general and special educators build together to support students in general education classes.

Jenny Kurth makes the case that inclusive education is a social‑justice issue because the “wealth, opportunity, and privilege” in schools live in general education—not in separate settings. She walks through how participation plans work (ecological assessment, general + individualized supports, embedded instruction, and prioritizing a few big learning goals) so students with complex support needs learn with their peers. Jenny also pushes the field to move beyond labels and placement continuums—toward “specialized supports” that follow the student—and reminds educators to use the power they already have to advocate, collaborate, and “find another way.”

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/jenny-kurth-implementing-inclusive-education-with-participation-plans/

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Alfie Kohn — Author and speaker on human behavior, education, and parenting; writer of 14 books and hundreds of articles; lectures at education conferences, universities, parent groups, and corporations. Known for Punished by Rewards and widely cited work challenging rewards, punishments, and behaviorist approaches in schools.

In this episode, Alfie Kohn argues that rewards (“positive reinforcement”) and punishments are two sides of the same coin—tools for short‑term compliance that erode curiosity, relationships, and intrinsic motivation. He critiques PBIS and behaviorist frameworks for centering control and compliance, and offers a “working‑with” alternative grounded in student interests, democratic class meetings, and co‑created curriculum. The episode also touches on inclusion, ungrading, and practical ways educators can reduce harm while pushing for structural change.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/alfie-kohn-does-behaviorism-belong-in-the-classroom/

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Katie Novak is an internationally renowned education consultant, practicing education leader, and graduate instructor at the University of Pennsylvania Graduate School of Education. She designs and presents workshops on Universal Design for Learning (UDL), MTSS, inclusive practices, and more. She’s the author of several books, including UDL Now, Innovate Inside the Box, Equity by Design (with Mirko Chardin), and Unlearning (with Allison Posey).

She previously served six years as an assistant superintendent and now facilitates professional learning while leading through her site, novakeducation.com.

In this conversation, Katie Novak unpacks what UDL really means and why it’s not just “differentiation by another name.” She argues that when we design from the start for learner variability—academic, linguistic, cultural, and emotional—students with the widest range of support needs can access grade‑level goals without lowering expectations.

Katie also addresses standardized testing pressures, urging educators to focus on impact over intent and to create accessible, trauma‑informed, and culturally sustaining classrooms—then let students face the (often imperfect) tests. She explains the principle of “supplement, not supplant,” the centrality of least restrictive environment (general education first), and why inclusive placement plus flexible pathways is essential for real equity.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/katie-novak-common-misconceptions-about-udl/

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Solo episode featuring Tim Villegas — host of Think Inclusive and Director of Communications at MCIE. In this episode, Tim shares his journey from teaching in self-contained (“segregated”) classrooms to advocating for inclusive education system-wide, including a later district-level role and his current work helping schools move toward inclusion.

In “Why I Call Myself an Inclusionist,” Tim Villegas reframes the term inclusionist—not as “get rid of special education,” but as a commitment to the careful planning, collaboration, and systems change required to make inclusive education work. He traces his path from skepticism to advocacy through student-centered successes (like Nathan and Damien), argues that IDEA’s Least Restrictive Environment is the legal starting point, and contends the biggest barrier isn’t teachers or funding but administrator belief and leadership. He closes with a concrete litmus test for placement decisions: What about these supports can’t be provided in a general education classroom?

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/why-i-call-myself-an-inclusionist/

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Paula Kluth — Author/speaker known for Don’t We Already Do Inclusion?; talks about “inclusion with a big I” and why real inclusion means educating students together with smart personalization.

Dan Habib — Filmmaker (Who Cares About Kelsey?); explains why effective inclusion hinges on strong leadership, a safe school climate, and tiered supports (PBIS).

Julie Causton — Researcher/teacher educator; shares findings from “Schools of Promise,” where eliminating segregated programs and building staff capacity led to academic gains for students with and without disabilities.

Nicole Eredics — Classroom teacher/podcaster; breaks down a simple, high‑leverage practice: bring families in early and keep the communication going all year.

Scott — General education PE teacher; reflects on adapting activities, learning with support staff, and how peers benefit as much as (and sometimes more than) the students receiving supports.

This bonus “best of” pulls together five moments that have shaped how we talk about inclusion on Think Inclusive: defining what it really means to be an “inclusionist,” why leadership and school culture matter more than money, how whole‑school redesign boosts learning for all kids, the power of starting strong with families, and what inclusion looks like in everyday classes like PE.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/the-best-of-think-inclusive-volume-1/

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Shelley Moore — Vancouver, BC–based inclusive education consultant, teacher, researcher, speaker, and storyteller. She’s the author of One Without the Other, a follow‑up to her TEDx talk “Under the Table,” and the creator/host of the Five Moore Minutes video series and companion podcast. Shelley works with school districts and community organizations across Canada and the United States.

In this episode of Think Incluive, Tim Villegas talks with Shelley Moore about her path into special education and why inclusion matters. Shelley explains her Plan A / Plan B framing (every student belongs with their grade‑level peers as “Plan A,” with supports and temporary breaks as needed—but with a clear path back), contrasts BC/Canada’s less‑standardized approach with U.S. systems, and unpacks her now‑famous baked potato metaphor for strategic planning that keeps rigor high while widening access.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/shelley-moore-what-is-all-the-fuss-about-baked-potatoes/

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Jennifer Spencer‑Iiams — Assistant Superintendent for the West Linn–Wilsonville School District (Greater Portland, OR). She co‑authored Leading for All: How to Create Truly Inclusive and Excellent Schools with Josh Flosi, and led districtwide transformation toward inclusive practices.

In this episode, Jennifer Spencer‑Iiams shares how her district shifted from segregated models to inclusive schools by focusing on better instruction for all learners, cultivating inclusive culture, and elevating student voice. She walks through concrete goals (neighborhood schools, co‑curricular participation, student‑led IEPs), the systems that kept momentum (weekly “Monday message,” measurable data), and stories—from a graduate’s “once they let me out” reflection to a stadium redesign—that show what real inclusion looks like.

Complete show notes and transcript: https://mcie.org/think-inclusive/jennifer-spencer-iiams-leading-for-all-how-to-create-truly-inclusive-and-excellent-schools/