By Emily Kircher-Morris
4.8
357357 ratings
The podcast currently has 247 episodes available.
On episode 247, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Dr. Megan Anna Neff to explore the complexities of neurodiversity, and the societal stereotypes that affect their lives. They talk about the challenges of diagnosis, the nuances of misdiagnosis, particularly the overlap between conditions like autism and borderline personality disorder, and the significance of self-awareness and acceptance in the journey of neurodivergent individuals. They discuss the phenomenon of autistic burnout, its implications, the challenges in clinical training regarding autism and ADHD, and inherent inequities that exist because of stereotypes and biases.
Takeaways
Diagnosis can significantly impact self-understanding and acceptance.
Misdiagnosis is common, especially among women and genderqueer individuals.
Understanding one's neurodivergent identity can aid in the healing process.
The medical community often overlooks non-stereotypical presentations of neurodivergence.
Self-criticism can stem from societal pressures and internalized shame.
Community and connection are vital for neurodivergent individuals.
Many undiagnosed autistic individuals are misdiagnosed with personality disorders.
There is a significant lack of training for clinicians on autism and ADHD.
Breaking down stigma around neurodivergence requires ongoing effort and advocacy.
Autistic burnout includes increased sensory sensitivities and emotional fatigue.
Living in a typical societal structure can lead to burnout for autistic individuals.
Challenging myths about autism is essential for societal change.
Don’t forget to join the Neurodiversity Podcast Advocacy & Support Group to keep the conversation going!
Dr. Megan Anna Neff (she/they) is a clinical psychologist, researcher, and advocate based in Portland, Oregon. Her work focuses on neurodiversity, spirituality, and holistic mental health. She has published articles and a book exploring diverse topics such as place-attachment, relational psychotherapy, and the African diaspora.
Following her own and her child's autism diagnoses, Dr. Neff became a passionate advocate for neurodivergent individuals. She challenges stereotypes and misconceptions through her writing, speaking engagements, and online presence, including her Instagram platform where she shares educational content and resources.
Dr. Neff is dedicated to bridging the gap between academic research and practical applications in the mental health field. She promotes an authentic and holistic approach to mental health that embraces the whole person and acknowledges the impact of systemic issues on individual well-being.
BACKGROUND READING
Dr. Neff’s Instagram
Neurodivergent Insights website
Divergent Conversations podcast
The Neurodiversity Podcast is available on Facebook and Instagram, and you can also join our private Facebook group.
Dr. Donna Henderson joins Emily Kircher-Morris to talk about the changes in the assessment process for autism, the importance of empowering therapists to diagnose autism, and the need for equity in masking. Their conversation also explores the double empathy problem and the challenges of balancing unmasking with the needs of neurodiverse individuals in educational settings. They also discuss the PDA profile and its place within the autism spectrum. That’s all waiting for you on episode 246. This is a reprise of an earlier chat.
Takeaways
The assessment process for autism is evolving, with a shift towards understanding subjective experience rather than relying solely on test scores.
Therapists are adapting by relying less on formal tests and more on interview skills and understanding inner subjective experiences.
Empowering therapists to diagnose autism is important for identifying and supporting individuals who may have been missed in the past.
Masking and camouflaging are complex behaviors that can have both benefits and drawbacks, and it is important to find a balance that respects individual needs and promotes equity. Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is not simply about avoiding demands, but rather an overriding biological drive for autonomy.
Misdiagnosis and labeling are common for PDAers, leading to potential negative consequences, especially for minority boys.
Understanding the core features of PDA, such as difficulty coping with demands, a wide variety of coping mechanisms, and challenges with social hierarchy, is crucial for accurate diagnosis and support.
For details about our courses for teaching twice-exceptional learners, click here.
Dr. Donna Henderson has been a clinical neuropsychologist for over 30 years. She is passionate about identifying and supporting autistic individuals, particularly those who camouflage, and she is co-author (with Drs. Sarah Wayland and Jamell White) of two books: Is This Autism? A Guide For Clinicians and Everyone Else and Is This Autism? A Companion Guide For Diagnosing. Dr. Henderson provides neuropsychological evaluations and consultations for children, adolescents, and adults who would like to understand themselves better. She is a sought-after lecturer on the less obvious presentations of autism, autistic girls and women, PDA, and on parenting children with complex profiles. She also provides case consultations and neurodiversity-affirmative training for other healthcare professionals.
BACKGROUND READING
Donna’s website
Is This Autism?
On episode 245, Emily talks with Dr. Brandi Walker, a retired Army clinical psychologist, about her experience as a psychologist in the military and the challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals. They talk about her journey of transitioning from a fuel handler to a psychologist, and when and how she developed an interest in ADHD. There are policies and limitations for recruits with ADHD or autism, and they talk about the implications, along with the waiver process that’s involved. Dr. Walker talks about the experiences of neurodivergent military members, and they have solid advice for young neurodivergent individuals considering joining the military.
Takeaways
Being a psychologist in the military is a rewarding experience but also comes with challenges due to the shortage of providers and the responsibility of caring for soldiers while also being a soldier.
Joining the military with a diagnosis of ADHD or autism requires meeting specific criteria and may involve the need for waivers depending on the severity of symptoms and the individual's treatment history.
Neurodivergent individuals in the military often find themselves masking their symptoms, but the structured and direct communication style of the military can also be beneficial for some individuals.
Military members who are parents of neurodivergent children face additional challenges due to frequent moves and the lack of a strong support system, but building routines, seeking support, and leveraging strengths can help create a supportive environment for the child.
Young neurodivergent individuals considering joining the military should prioritize self-care, have open conversations with their providers, and explore alternative paths if medication is necessary.
Pre-order Emily’s new book with Amanda Morin, Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted & Supported now! Release is set for January.
Dr. Brandi Walker is a retired Army Clinical Psychologist and faculty member at Womack Army Medical Center at Fort Bragg, NC. She also coaches military leaders and their teams in an effort to target the reduction of mental health challenges for servicemen and women. Dr. Walker maintains her earnest desire to further what is known about ADHD, and continues to provide therapeutic expertise and researched-informed support to families and individuals that are impacted.
She has spent the last seven years working with various hospitals, clinics, and schools conducting research on children with ADHD, family and sleep variables, and environmental factors. She has initiated the Prince George’s County (Maryland) CHADD Chapter and CHADD’s Southern Regional Support Center, and serves as Chair Past of the Diversity in the Military Committee of the American Psychological Association's Society of Military Psychology (Division 19). She is a Howard University and University of Maryland alumna, and runs a private consulting practice.
BACKGROUND READING
ADDitude Magazine Webinar and other helpful links
On this episode, Emily Kircher-Morris and Carrie Bonnett discuss the intricacies of executive functioning, its significance in academic and life success, and the challenges faced by neurodivergent individuals. They explore strategies for improving executive functioning skills, the importance of emotional regulation, and the need for educators to understand and support students struggling with these skills. Emily and Carrie also talk about the importance of motivation, making invisible tasks visible, and the journey of learning and adapting strategies to enhance executive functioning. That’s all on episode 244!
Takeaways
Executive functioning skills are crucial for getting important tasks done.
Many people struggle with executive functioning, especially neurodivergent individuals.
Teaching executive functioning involves education and strategy development.
Motivation often comes after starting a task, not before.
Chunking tasks into smaller steps can reduce overwhelm.
Making the invisible visible helps manage tasks and time.
Emotional regulation is closely tied to executive functioning skills.
Negative messaging about executive functioning can impact self-efficacy.
Educators should focus on understanding and supporting students' unique needs.
It's important for students to know they are not alone in their struggles.
Remember, you have until 11:59 pm Pacific time on Friday night, October 4th to join our Educator Hub! Remember that this is the final chance to sign up until after the holiday season. If you’re an educator, you should look and see if this community might be helpful in making your classroom a more neurodiversity-affirming place. Click here to check it out.
Carrie Bonnett earned her BBA in Marketing from the University of Notre Dame. However, her career trajectory shifted after a transformative volunteer experience at an underserved school, where she discovered a passion for teaching. This newfound passion led her to pursue a graduate degree in teaching at the University of Portland.
Over the course of her 20-year career in education, Carrie has taught in both private and public schools across the United States, working with diverse student populations. Her experience includes supporting and teaching executive functions, even before she had a formal understanding of the concept. She has served as a classroom teacher at both the middle and high school levels, as well as a substitute teacher for all grades. Currently, she is an adjunct instructor at the University of Portland, where she teaches early-career teachers.
She holds endorsements in Social Science and English Language Arts and is a certified teacher in the State of Oregon. Additionally, she has received training in the Seeing My Time® curriculum.
BACKGROUND READING
Carrie’s website
There’s a nagging feeling most of us experience from time to time, that tells us maybe we’ve fooled everyone. We shouldn’t have been placed in a certain position, or we’re not qualified to take on a project. On episode 243 we revisit a talk with Lindsay Lee, the author of a study about impostorism. Why do we experience it? What can we do to tamp it down?
Check out the Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools webinar we hosted earlier this week! You’ll find great information that will help make your classroom or school a place where all students can thrive. If you like the webinar, we’d love to have you as a member of our Educator Hub, click here to join!
Dr. Lindsay Lee is an educational scholar focused on ensuring that all advanced learners, regardless of their background or circumstances, have access to the resources and support they need to reach their full potential. She is currently working as a research analyst and professional development creator & facilitator on a Jacob K. Javits-funded project to optimize gifted identification practices across the United States. Her research interests include equitably identifying advanced students, psychological and educational measurements, talent development across domains, and developing learning environments that encourage creative growth. She has published several research and practitioner articles, as well as book chapters on these topics.
In addition to her research, Lindsay is also an active member of several professional organizations, including the National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC) and the American Educational Research Association (AERA). She has presented her research at numerous conferences and has received recognition for her work, including the 2021 NAGC Carolyn Callahan Doctoral Student Award and the 2022 NAGC Research & Evaluation Network Dissertation Award.
BACKGROUND READING
Twitter/X
ResearchGate
Google Scholar
Lindsay’s Research
Preprint accessible to anyone
On episode 242, Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Dr. Matt Zakreski about the importance of neurodiversity-affirming practices in therapy, and how intersection of giftedness and neurodiversity emphasizes the importance of neurodiversity-affirming practices in therapy, the significance of understanding twice exceptionality, and the role of diagnosis in accessing resources. Dr. Zakreski advocates for equity in supporting neurodivergent individuals and encourages listeners to pursue their passions and find supportive communities.
Takeaways
Giftedness can be met with resistance in traditional settings.
Neurodiversity-affirming practices focus on strengths.
Twice exceptional individuals face unique challenges.
Diagnosis should be a tool for accessing resources.
Finding the right support can be challenging.
Equity is essential in addressing diverse needs.
There are multiple pathways to success for neurodivergent individuals.
Pursuing passions is key to fulfillment.
Community support is vital for neurodivergent individuals.
Register here for our free annual fall event for educators, which is coming this Monday, September 23! If you’re an educator who’s passionate about creating neurodiversity-affirming learning environments for students, this event is for you. You can sign up free, and if you can’t make it to the live event, you’ll have access to the recording afterward. Join Emily and a live panel of experts by clicking here to register.
Dr. Matt Zakreski has shaped his career around his passion for serving gifted kids, starting with being a counselor (and a camper) at the Center for Talented Youth summer program as a teenager. He’s cofounder of The Neurodiversity Collective, LLC, and in his practice he offers therapy, consultation/coaching, and assessment.
Matt is a board member of PAGE, the Pennsylvania Association for Gifted Education, and works closely with multiple organizations around the country. He consults schools, presents at conferences internationally, conducts webinars, and leads discussions at his local library.
He earned BAs in Psychology and Communications at Wake Forest University in Winston Salem, NC. He assisted with research at Harvard Psychophysiology Lab at the Harvard University Business School in Cambridge, MA before making his way to graduate school at Widener University, where he earned his Doctorate in Psychology from the Institute of Graduate Clinical Psychology. He currently serves as an adjunct professor in the psychology department at Goldey-Beacom College in Wilmington, DE.
BACKGROUND READING
Website
School is back in session in many parts of the world, which is the time when struggles often begin to surface. On episode 241, Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Amanda Morin about the complexities of advocating for neurodivergent children, including utilizing Individualized Education Plans (IEPs) and the services they require. They explore the qualification process for IEPs, the importance of understanding behavior as communication, and the distinction between medical and educational diagnoses. The conversation emphasizes the need for advocacy, and the importance of tailored support for each child's unique needs.
Takeaways
IEPs provide specialized services and instruction for struggling students.
Qualification for an IEP involves a comprehensive evaluation process.
Twice exceptional children may have giftedness that masks their disabilities.
Behavior can be a form of communication for children.
Medical diagnoses do not equate to educational diagnoses.
Labels do not define a child's abilities or potential.
Accommodations can be provided in advanced placement classes.
Advocacy is crucial for ensuring children receive appropriate services.
Understanding the difference between IEPs and 504 plans is essential.
Support services can vary widely and should be tailored to individual needs.
Register here for our free annual fall event we’ve created specifically for educators who are passionate about creating neurodiversity-affirming learning environments for students. The event will be held on Monday, September 23, and you can sign up to join Emily and a live panel of experts, who will be discussing ways to best support students of all neurotypes.
Amanda Morin has most recently served as the Vice President of Learning & Knowledge for The Jed Foundation (JED). She headed teams of committed researchers, subject matter experts, and learning and development professionals in efforts to build knowledge about mental health, neurodiversity, and disability, to ensure all the work she’s engaged in is evidence-based, and includes the most up-to-date thinking in the field. She’s a certified teacher who provides unique expertise, and innovative perspectives to mission-driven education and family-facing organizations and coalitions.
She works in print and digital media as a writer, editor, and content creator, empowering parents and educators to affirm the pivotal roles they play in education. She played an integral role in launching Understood.org in 2014. Amanda has also worked with other organizations and publications, including: Bright & Quirky, Matan, Hidden Sparks Without Walls, Edutopia, Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development (ASCD), Education.com, Parenting Special Needs Magazine, DotDash (formerly known as About.com), and Popsugar Moms.
Amanda received special education advocacy training from the Council of Parent Attorneys and Advocates. She holds a certificate in Universal Design for Learning from the UDL Implementation and Research Network, sits on the Center for Inclusive Learning (CISL) advisory council, the advisory board of Digital Promise’s Learner Variability Project, the professional advisory board of Matan, and the Technical Expert Panel, of the American Academy of Pediatrics Center of Excellence on Social Media & Youth Mental Health.
Amanda Morin is also the author of five books: The Everything Parent’s Guide to Special Education, The Everything Kids’ Learning Activities Book, On-the-Go Fun for Kids: More Than 250 Activities to Keep Little Ones Busy and Happy — Anytime, Anywhere!, What Is Empathy? A Bullying Storybook for Kids, and Adulting Made Easy: Things Someone Should Have Told You About Getting Your Grown-Up Act Together.
BACKGROUND READING
Amanda’s books on Amazon
Amanda’s website
In episode 240, Emily Kircher-Morris chats with Brandon Gernux, an elementary school counselor from Santa Ana, California, and the 2024 Orange County Elementary School Counselor of the Year. Emily and Brandon dive into the importance of neurodiversity-affirming support in schools, sharing insights on how schools are slowly evolving to meet the needs of neurodivergent learners. They discuss the critical role school counselors play, particularly in addressing the challenges of camouflaging and masking, which can significantly impact students' social development and personal satisfaction. They talk about the value of self-advocacy, the necessity of including neurodiversity education in the curriculum, and how leveraging the strengths of neurodivergent learners can lead to more authentic and supportive school environments.
Takeaways
Schools need to adopt a neurodiversity-affirming framework to support neurodivergent learners.
Camouflaging and masking can have negative impacts on students' social development and mental health.
Self-advocacy skills are crucial for neurodivergent students to express their needs and receive appropriate support.
School counselors play a vital role in advocating for neurodivergent students and addressing systemic barriers.
Leveraging the strengths and interests of neurodivergent learners can enhance their learning experience.
A neurodiversity-affirming approach in schools is a social justice issue.
You are an educator who’s passionate about creating neurodiversity-affirming learning environments for students. So join us for our free annual fall event we’ve created specifically for you. The event will be held on Monday, September 23, and you can sign up to join Emily and a live panel of experts, who will be discussing ways to best support students of all neurotypes.
Be sure to get your Neurodiversity Podcast swag! It helps the podcast grow, and supports all neurotypes by telling the world that “a little weird is good!”
Brandon I. Gernux (he/they) is an Elementary School Counselor in Santa Ana, CA. Their passion lies in fostering inclusive classroom and school counseling practices to support autistic and ADHD students. Brandon has presented on embracing neurodiversity inclusion to educators and graduate students locally and nationally. Gernux is a leader of the ASCA Elementary School Counselor Affinity Group and serves on the CASC Social Justice, Equity, and Anti-Racism Committee, and was recognized as 2024 Orange County Elementary School Counselor of the Year.
BACKGROUND READING
Twitter/X
Miscommunication between autistic and non-autistic individuals can lead to painful misunderstandings and strained relationships. In this episode, we talk to Jaime A. Heidel, author of 'What Did I Do Wrong? An Accessible Guide to Preventing Traumatic Misunderstandings Between You and Your Autistic Loved One.' Emily and Jaime discuss the common communication barriers between autistic and non-autistic people, the importance of listening to autistic voices, and the need for effective communication to prevent trauma. They talk about the need for specificity in communication, and the impact of trauma and the importance of validating neurodivergent experiences.
Takeaways
Miscommunication between autistic and non-autistic individuals can lead to painful misunderstandings and strained relationships.
Listening to autistic voices and consuming their content can help improve understanding and foster better connections.
Believing autistic individuals and being specific in communication can greatly improve communication and prevent trauma.
The impact of trauma on neurodivergent individuals is real, and it’s important to validate their experiences.
Register here for our free annual fall event we’ve created specifically for educators who are passionate about creating neurodiversity-affirming learning environments for students. The event will be held on Monday, September 23, and you can sign up to join Emily and a live panel of experts, who will be discussing ways to best support students of all neurotypes.
Jaime A. Heidel, The Articulate Autistic, is a late-diagnosed autistic/ADHD woman who uses her social media platforms to explain the autistic experience in terms that their neurotypical loved ones can understand and relate to.
BACKGROUND READING
The Articulate Autistic
What Did I Do Wrong?
Jaime on Instagram
A Field Guide to Earthlings
On episode 238, Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Lindsay Kapek and Katie Tabari about the challenges neurodivergent students face in learning math. The conversation explores strategies for creating inclusive math classrooms that foster confidence and support for all students, regardless of their neurodivergence, and they talk about the importance of understanding individual learning styles. They also discuss using low floor, high ceiling tasks and three-act tasks to engage students and promote problem-solving skills. If you’re a teacher, or if you have kids in school, this is an episode you can’t miss.
Takeaways
Neurodivergent students face barriers in math education, but their unique traits can be leveraged as assets.
Creating a supportive and inclusive math classroom starts with building a connection with students.
Implementing strategies like low floor, high ceiling tasks and three-act tasks can engage students and promote problem-solving skills.
Language and mindset play a crucial role in fostering confidence and growth in math.
Understanding students' learning styles and providing individualized support is essential for their success.
Register here for our free annual fall event we’ve created specifically for educators who are passionate about creating neurodiversity-affirming learning environments for students. The event will be held on Monday, September 23, and you can sign up to join Emily and a live panel of experts, who will be discussing ways to best support students of all neurotypes.
Lindsay Kapek and Katie Tabari are experienced K-8 math educators with a passion for making math accessible to all students. They are accomplished leaders in education, leading school-wide professional development efforts, consulting with schools and school leaders regarding the implementation of skill-based instruction, and speaking nationwide at conferences including NWAIS as well as NCTM.
Katie has extensive experience working with K-5 students, nearly all of whom were neurodivergent learners. She is also a mom to three kids, one of whom is neurodivergent. She is passionate about ensuring every student feels seen, heard, and included in the math classroom.
Lindsay has extensive experience working with K-8 students who have been diagnosed with ADHD. Lindsay herself has ADHD and is a huge advocate for celebrating the incredible gifts that students with ADHD bring to the math classroom.
BACKGROUND READING
Prep Set Grow
Tools referenced during the interview
Blog
The podcast currently has 247 episodes available.
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