The Neurodivergent Woman

This week on the pod we chat with Marie Masse (pronounced ‘moss’) about special interests and creativity. Marie is part of our little ND Woman Pod team, and she has been the creative genius behind pretty much everything except the actual episodes themselves, so if you follow us on socials, or you’ve checked out our website, or you’ve downloaded one of our gorgeous PDF episode articles, you’ve definitely seen her work!

Marie is a late-identified 2e AuDHDer with two neurodivergent kids, navigating life with OCD and chronic health conditions —mostly from her creative sanctuary: a little cabin in the Blue Ridge Mountains in the USA. During a period of trauma and burnout, Marie lost access to her most sacred interest—her creative process—but has since reclaimed it, proving that healing and recovery are possible. Since 2013, she has crafted over 300 creations—articles, digital tools, guides, books, podcast episodes, and transformative programs centred around story work. Her creations invite others to stay awake to the tiny stories that shape their lives and use them as opportunities to heal, thrive, and live fully expressed.

On this episode we cover:

1.  How Marie thinks about neurodivergence and her path to discovering her own neurodivergence.
2. How ‘special interests’ manifest for Marie.
3. The difference between Autistic, ADHD, and AuDHD special interests.
4. The centrality of special interests as an ‘organising force’ for autistic folk.
5. Marie’s experience of losing access to her creative process (her special interest).
6. The difference between living a ‘balanced’ life for neurotypicals, versus what ‘balance’ can look like for neurodivergent people.
7. Marie’s experience of her special interests in childhood.
8. How the internet has made interests and interest-based connections more accessible for neurodivergent folk.
9. Neurotypical special interests.
10. Marie explains ‘story work’.  

You can find Marie’s work through her website – www.dangerouslygoodstories.com – on Instagram @dangerouslygoodstories and @myneurodivergentjoy, or through her Substack (Live Like You Mean It).

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

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Today’s guest is Jess Rowlings. Jess is the CEO and co-founder of Next Level Collaboration, as well as a qualified speech and language therapist. She also works as a researcher at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education, and previously Murdoch Children’s Research Institute. Jess is an adult diagnosed AuDHDer and has a lifelong love of games, both of which inform her work and research. As a researcher, she is passionate about the use of digital games-based learning to promote inclusion and a sense of belonging, and her work has included developing and running a dedicated Minecraft server to support neurodivergent girls and women.

Monique and Jess cover:

1. Jess’ path to identifying her own neurodivergence.
2. Her research on gaming and neurodivergence.
3. How gaming can support both sides of the AuDHD brain, what it can tell us about a person’s problem-solving style, and how it can promote collaborative problem-solving skills.
4. Jess’ relationship to gaming throughout her life, and the purpose gaming has served for her.
5. Gender in gaming, including the popularity of gaming amongst adult women, blocks to gaming accessibility for girls, women, and AFAB folk, and Jess’ suggestions around what parents and adult gamers can do to have safer and more accessible gaming spaces.
6. The huge variety of experiences and play options that come under the ‘gaming’ umbrella and how this has evolved over time.
7. Discussion on the potential negative effects of gaming, including recognising active vs. passive screen time, the balance of gaming with other life activities, and what parents and adult gamers can do to support healthy gaming activity.
8. The importance of taking kids’ interest and strength in gaming seriously.
9. The many benefits of gaming for neurodivergent folk.

You can find Jess on LinkedIn or Twitter @JessRowlings, or through Next Level Collaboration. Jess has also co-written a book with Matthew Harrison - Press B to Belong – on creating inclusive Esports programs for school communities.

This episode with Jess is kicking off a little mini-series we have planned for you on neurodivergent joy; next week we’ll be talking about special interests and creative expression, followed by self-care and self-nurturance. We hope you enjoy!

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

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This week Monique interviews Professor Sandra Thom-Jones about aging as an autistic person. Sandra is an autistic author, artisan, academic, and advocate. She provides consultancy services to education, employment, and healthcare providers, and supports for autistic people, through her consultancy ‘Autistic Professor’. Sandra is the author of Growing in to Autism, and she has undertaken numerous research projects­ in partnership with the autistic community on the experiences of autistic people and the knowledge and attitudes towards autism in the community; including research that won the Autism CRC’s 2019 and 2021 awards for research translation and the 2022 award for inclusive research. 

Monique and Sandra cover:

• Sandra’s experience of her neurodivergence throughout her life and her path to identifying her autistic neurotype.
• Why do older autistic adults tend to be ‘invisible’ to society at large, and what factors contribute to the support needs of this population?
• Generational trends in the understanding of and meaning associated with an autism diagnosis, and the implications for disclosure and self-advocacy.
• The unique needs of autistic folk when navigating later stages of life like menopause, increasing healthcare needs, aged care, retirement, and managing family changes and transitions.
• The importance of discarding neuro-normative expectations about what aging or retirement ‘should’ look like, and Sandra’s tips for a joyful retirement as an autistic person.

You can find more of Sandra’s work through her website – www.autisticprofessor.com – or follow her on Facebook (@autisticprofessor) or Instagram (@sandrathomjones_au_author).

Get a copy of Sandra’s book, Growing in to Autism, and pre-order her upcoming book, Autistics in Academia, through Cambridge University Press.

Follow Sandra on socials to stay updated on her next book, on the experiences of autistic people in the workplace!

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Content warning: This episode discusses grooming and sexual assault. Some listeners may decide to skip this one.

This week Monique interviews fellow psychologist Anna Clarke on grooming. As a multiply neurodivergent psychologist, EMDR therapist, and play therapist, Anna is passionate about supporting care teams with a trauma-informed, neurodivergent-affirming lens, and they are experienced in working with survivors of sexual assault and family violence.

On this episode Monique and Anna unpack this incredibly important topic, including what makes grooming such an insidious, ‘hard to pin down’ practice. Monique and Anna cover:

• Anna’s understanding of neurodivergence, their path to discovering their own neurodivergence, and what late identification has meant for them.
• What is grooming?
• What kinds of relationships have the potential for grooming behaviour?
• The distinct phases of grooming.
• The factors that increase the likelihood of disabled, neurodivergent, and / or previously traumatised folk being targeted for grooming.
• What effect does grooming have on the individual and on their broader support network?
• Other forms of manipulation like love bombing and gaslighting.
• Signs to look out for – both in the perpetrator and the person being groomed.
• Ways that parents and the broader community can protect vulnerable people from grooming.
• Anna’s advice for those who have experienced grooming or who suspect they may be experiencing this.

Find out more about Anna’s work on this topic and sign up for their upcoming Grooming Webinar (with all profits being donated to support services for survivors of sexual assault) through Divergent Futures. 

Here are some resources we’d recommend:

• Blue Knot Foundation. Call 1300 657 380 or email [email protected] - Supporting adult survivors of childhood trauma and adult survivors of institutional child sexual abuse around the National Redress Scheme. Also has resources for supporters of survivors.
• Check out the National Resource on grooming. This page has all the National information for Australia on grooming, and on reporting grooming or abuse.
• State based victim support reporting and links. 
• Autistic Guide to Healthy Relationships.

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week we speak with Penny Moodie about Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Penny is a writer, OCD advocate, and mum of three little people. She is the author of ‘The Joy Thief: How OCD steals your happiness – and how to get it back’ and the co-creator the website soocd.com.au, which is packed with information on OCD and how to get support.

In this episode Penny very generously shares her personal experience with OCD, and she takes us through the ‘why’ of OCD and the strategies and treatment approaches she has found helpful.

We cover:

• What is OCD, and crucially, what isn’t OCD?
• Some of the key mechanisms of OCD, including thought-action fusion, uncertainty anxiety, the ‘just right’ feeling, and the feedback loop between obsessions and compulsions.
• Periods of OCD onset.
• Talking to kids about their thoughts.
• Penny’s personal experience of OCD throughout her life, including in childhood, her adolescence, and throughout her adulthood, and her path to accurate diagnosis.
• OCD in the perinatal period.
• Treatment approaches for OCD and strategies that Penny has found useful, including ERP, methods to reframe and manage distressing thoughts, medication, self-compassion practice, and connecting with other people experiencing OCD.

You can find Penny on Instagram @pennymoodie and through her website, So OCD. Get a copy of Penny’s book, The Joy Thief, here.

The book Penny mentioned was The Man Who Couldn’t stop, by David Adam.

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On today’s episode Monique interviews Liam Spicer about grief and loss. Listeners will notice that Liam is not a neurodivergent woman, but we’ve decided to make an exception this time as Liam is an expert in the area of neurodivergence and grief.

Liam is a Senior Lecturer in Psychology, and he’s a Psychologist, EMDR Consultant, and Accredited Schema Therapist based in Launceston, Tasmania. He is also an Autistic ADHDer, and is passionate about training, research, and collaboration with other neurodivergent individuals in the Neurodiversity Affirming Space. Liam’s current PhD is focused on the use of Schema Therapy for Prolonged Grief, and he has published journal articles and book chapters on grief in addition to presenting at national and international conferences. His interest in this area is derived from both professional and personal lived experience of loss.

Just a quick warning for listeners, this episode contains mention of death and loss. Some of our listeners may decide to skip this one.

Monique and Liam cover:

• Liam’s journey to understanding his own neurodivergence.
• What is grief?
• Is there such a thing as a ‘normal’ response to grief, and what are some common myths about grief.
• Different types of grief and loss (and the validity of feeling big feelings about all of these types of losses!), including death loss, loss of aspects of daily living, loss associated with life transitions and with chronic or acute health conditions, loss of routines or coping mechanisms, and grief associated with diagnosis.
• Some key factors for neurodivergent people and their supports to keep in mind when dealing with grief and loss, and strategies around managing these ND specific factors.
• What is ‘Prolonged Grief’ and what can you expect when seeing a therapist for Prolonged Grief?
• Liam’s personal experiences with grief and strategies for supporting grieving loved ones. (Note: this section discusses miscarriage loss, so consume with care if this is a tough subject for you).

You can find Liam through his website or on Instagram or LinkedIn @LiamSpicer.

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We are thrilled to interview Margo White this week on working with eating disorders in the neurodivergent population. Margo is an Accredited Clinical Nutritionist, proudly neurodivergent AuDHDer, mother of two, and founder of Whole Body Nutrition. Margo helps Neurodivergent folk of all ages, genders, and backgrounds to cultivate an emotionally healthy relationship with food. A relationship that understands, and accepts that there are different ways of eating, and that validates all sensory feeding differences. Margo draws from a neuro-affirming, trauma informed, and lived experience lens.

In this episode we cover:

• Margo’s own path to discovering her neurodivergence and how this was integral to developing her current clinical focus.
• Why it is so important for a person’s neurodivergence to be taken into account when treating eating disorders.
• Can you ‘cure’ neurodivergence with a specific diet??? (spoiler alert: no).
• Some of the key challenges that neurodivergent folk can have with food and eating, what drives these challenges (including sensory processing differences, executive functioning, interoception, burnout and motivation, + more), and what are some strategies to ease these friction points.
• Avoidant Restrictive Food Intake Disorder (ARFID) – what is this and how does Margo approach treatment of ARFID with her neurodivergent clients.
• Anorexia and Binge Eating Disorder in neurodivergent folk.
• Margo’s lived experience of an Eating Disorder.
• Margo’s advice on how parents of neurodivergent kids with atypical eating can best advocate for their kids’ needs, and how adults can advocate for their own needs.

You can find Margo through her website – Whole Body Nutrition – and on Instagram (@margos_wholebodynutrition) and Facebook.

Check out Margo’s eBooks on Neurodiversity Affirming Feeding Practices and on ARFID and the Nervous System.

Margo also mentioned Naureen Hunani’s work on neurodivergence and eating – find her on Instagram @rds_for_neurodiversity

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week Monique chats with Dr Hayley Kelly about entrepreneurship. Hayley is a clinical psychologist, CEO, and Founder of Therapists Rising. Her goal is to transform the mental health landscape by helping therapists build sustainable and impactful businesses. Diagnosed with Autism and ADHD later in life, she brings a unique, neuroaffirming approach to entrepreneurship, inspiring mental health professionals to embrace innovation, creativity, and resilience in their practices.

This episode is jammed with incredible insights on how to leverage your neurodivergent strengths as a business owner – it’s a must listen for any ND folks thinking of launching themselves into the world of entrepreneurship and business ownership (or for those who are there already!).

In this episode Monique and Hayley cover:

• Hayley’s conceptualisation of neurodivergence and the identity shifts she experienced through late diagnosis.
• How Hayley’s knowledge of her own neurodivergence helped her to understand the past challenges as well as the strengths she’d experienced in the workforce over her career.
• Her path to entrepreneurship and finding her ‘zone of genius’.
• The strengths of ADHD in entrepreneurship and business ownership.
• Strategies for managing rejection sensitivity and feeling like an imposter in this space.
• Strengths of the Autistic brain, and the AuDHD brain, in entrepreneurship and business ownership.
• Hayley’s tips for neurodivergent folk working in (or moving toward) this space.

You can find Hayley through her website, Therapists Rising, or on Instagram @dr.hayleykelly.

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We kick off Season 6 with a chunky episode about being childfree, and share our personal experiences on this topic. This was a really meaningful and important topic for us – we hope you find it useful!

We cover:

• The cultural and normative context of motherhood
• Understanding your desire for or against motherhood and what are the complexities and nuances in this.
• Ruby Warrington’s ‘Motherhood Spectrum’
• Reasons why you might not want to be a mother – both in general and factors specific to neurodivergent folk.
• Finding meaning in life outside motherhood and exploring alternate archetypes for different stages of life.

Things we mentioned plus other good resources:

• Women without Kids – by Ruby Warrington, the book and podcast
• Goddesses in Everywoman; Powerful Archetypes in Women’s Lives – by Jean Shinoda Bolen
• Awakening Shakti – by Sally Kempton
• Women Who Run with the Wolves; Contacting the power of the Wild Woman – by Clarissa Pinkola Estes
• The Wife Drought – by Annabel Crabbe
• Regretting Motherhood; A Study – Orna Donath

Our astute listeners might notice the cacophony of crows occasionally kicking off in the background of this ep – imagine yourself in the Australian bush if it helps!!

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

Contact us at [email protected], or visit our website: www.ndwomanpod.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

For our final episode of the season we welcome Sonny Jane Wise to the podcast, to share their wisdom on all things neurodivergence. This is a fabulous ep to start with if you’re new to the neurodiversity affirming model, and also if you’ve been here a while!

Sonny Jane is a trans, multiply neurodivergent & disabled public speaker, advocate and author. Sonny was diagnosed with Autism and ADHD as a child and grew up only hearing a deficit narrative about their neurodivergence. Since then, they have gone on to build an audience of over 100, 000 people online, have written The Neurodivergent Friendly Workbook of DBT Skills and We’re All Neurodiverse and has worked with organisations and services around Australia and the world to help change the narrative around neurodivergence and create a more neurodiversity affirming society.

In this episode we cover:

• Key definitions of neurodiversity affirming practice, including the difference between ‘neurodiverse’ and ‘neurodivergence’ and between the pathologising / medical model of practice and the neurodiversity affirming model.
• Sonny Jane’s experience of being early diagnosed under a pathologising model and the lifechanging impact of discovering neurokin and the neurodiversity affirming community.
• Disability and ableism and neuronormativity (oh my!)
• The intersectional impact of different aspects of Sonny Jane’s identity, their neurodivergences, and their disabilities, and how this intersectionality impacts their access to services.
• The future of neurodiversity affirming practice.

You can find out more about Sonny Jane and access their content through their website. 

Want polished copies of our episodes in beautiful and readable pdf article format? Grab them here. 

Enjoyed the episode and want to support us further? Join our Patreon community! Patreon subscribers receive basic episode transcripts from Season 4 onwards, access to a monthly live zoom hang out, 50% off our episode articles, plus bonus monthly content (depending on subscription tier). Check out our Patreon page to support us, as we aim to make quality mental health care information accessible to everyone: www.patreon.com/ndwomanpod.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.