A term has been gaining traction over the last few years: AuDHD. Today, Emily Kircher-Morris is talking with Mattia Maurée, a neurodivergent individual who is both ADHD and autistic. They talk about how the two diagnoses blend together, one side desiring routine and sameness, while the other seeks novelty and change. They also discuss the challenges of receiving accurate diagnoses, the impact of stigma on neurodivergent individuals, how career pathways are affected, Mattia’s personal experiences of being misunderstood and judged, and the importance of community. The conversation covers many other subjects as well, and is also part of an earlier episode.

TAKEAWAYS

• ADHD and autism can coexist in individuals, with one part of them desiring routine and sameness while the other seeks novelty and change.

• Receiving accurate diagnoses for neurodivergent individuals can be challenging, as the symptoms of different conditions can overlap and mask each other.

• Stigma and misunderstandings surrounding neurodivergent individuals are pervasive and can lead to discrimination and mistreatment.

• Being twice exceptional, with both ADHD and autism, can result in unique challenges and experiences, including being misunderstood and judged by others.

• When Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is a factor, it can lead to difficulties in regulating the nervous system, and can have a significant impact on daily life.

• Finding a career that aligns with one's interests and strengths is crucial for neurodivergent individuals.

• Community support and understanding are essential for neurodivergent individuals to thrive and feel deeply understood.

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Mattia Maurée is an AuDHD coach and host of the AuDHD Flourishing Podcast. Creative outlets in music and the arts became their refuge through a childhood full of unpredictability. Confronting their trauma sparked an interest in the topic and Mattia led them to their autism diagnosis in their 30’s, as well as finding somatic neurodivergent-friendly methods of working through their depression and anxiety. They now share their experiences to give hope to queer, trans, and neurodivergent youth and young adults through their coaching, and embrace the philosophy of “feel better first.”

BACKGROUND READING

AuDHD Flourishing website, AuDHD Flourishing podcast, TikTok

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On episode 270, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Dr. Taylor Day, a licensed psychologist who specializes in neuro-affirming care for autistic children and their families. They discuss the complexities of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) in children, and the importance of understanding neurodiversity and the need for family-centered care. They cover the challenges of identifying PDA, the risks of misdiagnosis, and the necessity of adapting parenting and therapeutic strategies to better support children with this profile. They also validate parents' experiences and intuition, and endorse a holistic approach to autism care that considers the needs of the entire family.

TAKEAWAYS

• PDA is a conceptualization rather than a formal diagnosis.

• Validating lived experiences is crucial for families.

• Research on PDA is progressing slowly.

• Parents often face dismissal in the medical community.

• PDA behaviors may resemble defiance or oppositionality.

• Affirming approaches can prevent family burnout.

• Quality of services is more important than quantity.

• Parents are the experts on their children.

• Therapy can take many forms beyond traditional methods.

The Neurodiversity University Therapist Hub registration window is closed for now, but will open again soon, and you can get on the list to be notified! If you're a mental health professional we want you in our group of like-minded peers, in a vibrant community where learning and sharing are front and center.

Meantime, we'll be opening our Educator Hub to new members in the next couple of weeks! If you're an educator or have a student in your life, we would love for you to be part of it. We can notify you as soon as it opens, so get on the list here!

Dr. Taylor Day is a licensed psychologist specializing in neuro-affirming care for autistic children and their families, with a focus on early diagnosis and intervention. She is the CEO and founder of Dr. Tay Concierge Clinical Care, where she developed The Whole Family Approach, an evidence-informed model designed to address gaps in autism care by supporting both children and their families.

Dr. Day holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and is dedicated to advancing early childhood autism support through personalized, family-centered interventions. Her passion for child psychology and autism advocacy is deeply rooted in her personal experience growing up with a brother diagnosed at 23 months of age.

BACKGROUND READING

Dr Day’s website, Instagram, EVOLVE with Dr. Tay: The Podcast of Parents of Autistic Kids (Spotify)

Speech Dude Chris Wenger joins Emily Kircher-Morris to discuss the importance of shifting from compliance-based educational strategies to more affirming practices for neurodivergent students. They explore the significance of creating safe and regulated environments, the difference between belonging and fitting in, and the need to redefine social goals to foster authentic connections among students. They talk about the value of autonomy, community building, and understanding the unique challenges faced by high school students in the context of neurodiversity.

TAKEAWAYS

• The shift from compliance-based strategies to affirming support is crucial for neurodivergent students.

• Belonging is more important than fitting in for neurodivergent individuals.

• Social goals should focus on authentic connections rather than masking behaviors.

• Autonomy in decision-making enhances both student and teacher experiences.

• Intersectionality plays a significant role in the experiences of neurodivergent individuals.

• After school clubs can foster connections between neurodivergent and neuro-normative students.

• Normalizing neurodivergent behaviors can enhance acceptance in schools.

• The DASL assessment tool focuses on strengths rather than deficits.

• Language used in reports can affect parent-child dynamics.

The Neurodiversity University Therapist Hub is now open for you to join! Be among a group of like-minded peers in a vibrant community, where learning and sharing are front and center. We’re building a world that works for all neurotypes, and we need you!

Chris Wenger is a neurodivergent high school speech-language pathologist with over 20 years of experience, an international speaker, and the creator of the Dynamic Assessment of Social Emotional Learning, a strengths-based assessment designed for autistic students. He is also the founder of NeuroAffirm, a groundbreaking global directory that connects neurodivergent individuals and their families with affirming providers.

Widely known as Speech Dude, Chris has built a global following of nearly one million on social media, where he shares educational and inspiring content infused with humor. His work focuses on making neuroaffirming practices more accessible while empowering educators, therapists, and families to better support neurodivergent learners.

BACKGROUND READING

Instagram, TikTok, Speech Dude

School refusal and distress are the subject of the day, as Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes child psychologist and former school psychologist, Dr. Emily King. They discuss the importance of understanding the underlying causes of anxiety, the need for neurodiversity-affirming approaches, and the balance between structure and flexibility in educational settings. The also discuss the importance of grace, connection, and individualized strategies when helping children navigate their emotional experiences.

TAKEAWAYS

• School refusal is often a response to anxiety, not an active choice.

• Understanding the difference between school refusal and school distress is crucial.

• Patterns of anxiety can vary based on environmental factors.

• Children may need different levels of support depending on their emotional state.

• Co-regulation is essential for helping children manage anxiety.

• Predictability in routines can help reduce anxiety for neurodivergent children.

• Flexibility within structure is important in educational settings.

• Parents should focus on what is necessary in their routines to reduce stress.

• Exit plans can empower children and reduce feelings of being trapped.

• Every child's experience is unique, and strategies should be individualized.

Register here for a free one-hour continuing education webinar entitled The Cost of Camouflage: Exploring Masking and Burnout in Neurodivergent Clients. It’s a free service of the Neurodiversity University!

Dr. Emily King is a child psychologist and former school psychologist with over 20 years of experience working with neurodivergent children and teens. She began her career specializing in school-based mental health in K-12 public schools in Houston, Texas, before transitioning to private practice in North Carolina, where she now supports the mental health needs of neurodivergent youth, their families, and educators.

Dr. Emily is the creator of The Neurodiverse Classroom, a professional development curriculum for educators, and hosts Learn with Dr. Emily on Substack, where she shares blogs, live workshops, and insights on neurodiversity and education. Her upcoming book, The Neurodivergent Learner, will be available for presale in early 2026. Her expertise has been featured on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, The New York Times, The Washington Post, and Parents.com.

BACKGROUND READING

Facebook, Instagram, Threads, LinkedIn

Today, Emily Kircher-Morris and Meredith Polsky look into the complexities of selective mutism, exploring its definitions, the importance of language in understanding it, and the personal experiences that led Meredith to specialize in this area. They discuss the myths surrounding selective mutism, and its manifestation as an anxiety disorder rather than a choice or a form of shyness. Meredith shares her journey as a parent of children with selective mutism and the challenges she faced in finding appropriate treatment, ultimately leading her to become a clinician herself. They explore the challenges of diagnosis, and provide effective therapeutic techniques. This is a must-listen for adults supporting children with selective mutism.

TAKEAWAYS

• Selective mutism is often misunderstood as a choice.

• Language matters in discussing selective mutism.

• The term 'situational mutism' is gaining popularity.

• Parents play a crucial role in treatment.

• Selective mutism is an anxiety disorder, not shyness.

• Pushing children to speak can increase anxiety.

• There is a lack of awareness among clinicians about selective mutism.

• Selective mutism can complicate the diagnosis of autism.

• Children with selective mutism may not exhibit typical anxiety responses.

• Effective communication strategies are crucial for children with selective mutism.

Register here for a free one-hour continuing education webinar entitled The Cost of Camouflage: Exploring Masking and Burnout in Neurodivergent Clients. It’s a free service of the Neurodiversity University!

Meredith Polsky, LCSW is a licensed clinical social worker specializing in Selective Mutism through her private practice, Counseling Out Loud. With a career dedicated to supporting children with diverse needs, she also serves as the Senior Director of Programs and Partnerships at Matan, Inc., an organization she co-founded in 2000 to promote inclusion in education.

Meredith is the co-author of the award-winning I Have a Question children’s book series (Jessica Kingsley Publishers), which helps children—both with and without disabilities—navigate complex topics. She holds a BA in Psychology from the University of Michigan, an MA in Early Childhood Special Education from Bank Street College, an MA in Clinical Social Work from Columbia University, and a graduate certificate in Early Intervention from Georgetown University.

BACKGROUND READING

Counseling Out Loud, Matan, I Have a Question, LinkedIn, Selective Mutism Association

On episode 266, Emily Kircher-Morris discusses the critical role of executive functioning in education with Mitch Weathers, author of Executive Functions for Every Classroom. They explore how these skills are essential for student success, and discuss incorporating them into teaching practices, rather than treating them as an afterthought. The conversation also covers the importance of clarity, modeling, and routine in teaching these skills, and the challenges posed by the digital era.

TAKEAWAYS

• Executive functioning is a core part of learning.

• Teaching executive functioning skills should be explicit and integrated into the curriculum.

• Clarity, modeling, and routine are essential for teaching these skills.

• Students need daily practice to develop executive functioning skills.

• The digital age may hinder the development of these skills.

• Organization is a transformative skill that grounds students.

• Self-assessment empowers students to reflect on their learning.

• Teachers struggling with executive dysfunction can impact their students' learning.

• Accountability involves collaboration between teachers, students, and families.

• Neurodivergent students benefit from tailored strategies and workarounds.

Register here for a free one-hour continuing education webinar entitled The Cost of Camouflage: Exploring Masking and Burnout in Neurodivergent Clients. It’s a free service of the Neurodiversity University!

Mitch Weathers is an educator, author, and expert in executive functioning. He is the founder and creator of Organized Binder, an evidence-based, MTSS Tier 1 universal solution designed to help students develop essential executive functioning skills such as goal setting, time management, reflective learning, and organization.

His book, Executive Functions for Every Classroom, became a #1 bestseller, highlighting his structured approach to fostering academic success through clear expectations and routines. Mitch’s work emphasizes the importance of hands-on, analog strategies to build resilience and independence in students, ensuring they develop the foundational skills needed to thrive in an increasingly digital world.

BACKGROUND READING

LinkedIn, Facebook, X/Twitter, Instagram

The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com.

Emily Kircher-Morris talks with Barbara Pape, Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project, about the concept of learner variability. The conversation touches on the importance of recognizing each student's unique strengths and challenges. They explore how educators can support neurodivergent learners through personalized instruction, they cover the role of technology in education, and talk about the need for a sense of belonging in the classroom. The discussion also touches on the barriers educators face in addressing learner variability and the evolution of educational policy to better support diverse learners.

TAKEAWAYS

• Learner variability is the recognition that each student has unique strengths and challenges.

• Teaching to the middle does not effectively reach any student.

• Understanding learner variability allows educators to see design challenges rather than student problems.

• The Learner Variability Navigator is a tool for educators to understand and support diverse learners.

• Creating a sense of belonging is crucial for student engagement and success.

• Students should have agency in how their accommodations are presented to peers.

• Belonging in the classroom requires a whole child approach.

• Educational policy must evolve to provide adequate support for neurodivergent learners.

Barbara Pape is the Senior Director of the Learner Variability Project at Digital Promise, where she led a national survey on learner variability, edtech, and teacher practice, authored the defining paper on learner variability, and co-developed the IEP Project, which emphasizes strength-based, whole-child approaches to writing IEPs. She also hosts a monthly edWeb webinar series and previously served as executive producer of the award-winning Teaching & Learning conference for the National Board for Professional Teaching Standards. Her background includes roles in public policy, having worked on former U.S. Senator Paul Simon’s Senate and Presidential campaign, as well as in the U.S. Senate on the Education and Labor Committee.

Barbara has contributed to numerous publications and was the editor and publisher of the first electronically delivered education newsletter, The Daily Report Card. She serves on the boards of Benetech and The Riley Project and is involved in multiple education and learner variability working groups. Previously, she was an advisor for the Kennedy Center’s Intersection of the Arts and Special Education and a strategic planning committee member for Montgomery County Public Schools. She is currently pursuing a PhD at University College London, holds an EdM in reading and literacy from Harvard University’s Graduate School of Education, and began her career as a middle school language arts teacher.

BACKGROUND READING

Facebook, Twitter/X, LinkedIn, YouTube, The Learner Variability Project, The Learner Variability Navigator

The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

On episode 264, we’re sharing our sister podcast’s conversation about the double empathy problem. In Creating Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools, Emily Kircher-Morris and Amanda Morin explore a concept that challenges the assumption that neurodivergent individuals lack empathy, and instead highlights how misunderstandings happen between different neurotypes. They share personal stories, real-world classroom scenarios, and strategies to help educators bridge the communication gap with their neurodivergent students.

TAKEAWAYS

• The double empathy problem—what it is and why it matters in schools.

• How educators can shift from assuming misbehavior to seeking understanding.

• The difference between cognitive empathy (perspective-taking) and affective empathy (emotional connection).

• Why curiosity and asking the right questions can prevent conflict and improve student-teacher relationships.

• Strategies for making classroom environments more emotionally safe for neurodivergent students.

BACKGROUND READING

• The Double Empathy Problem (Damian Milton, 2012) 

• Neurowild by Em Hammond – Visual resources explaining neurodiversity concepts 

• Neurodiversity University Educator Hub: Join the Community

• Neurodiversity-Affirming Schools: Transforming Practices So All Students Feel Accepted and Supported - Order here

The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

Today, Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Natalia Aíza, a therapist and advocate, to talk about the complexities of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD). They debunk common myths and misconceptions, and talk about what OCD actually is. It's important to understand the OCD cycle, be able to identify the various types of OCD, and understand how it often coexists with other neurodivergent conditions like ADHD and autism. They also talk about the impact of reassurance seeking, the nuances of Just Right OCD, and the challenges of school refusal. The conversation includes insights into how parents and therapists can better support individuals with OCD, and help them on the journey towards a better life.

TAKEAWAYS

• OCD is often misunderstood, with many believing it only relates to cleanliness.

• The OCD cycle involves triggers, obsessions, and compulsions that reinforce fears.

• Moral scrupulosity and harm OCD are common types that are often overlooked.

• OCD is distinct from generalized anxiety.

• ADHD and OCD can coexist, leading to unique challenges in diagnosis and treatment.

• Autism can complicate the presentation of OCD, requiring specialized understanding.

• Reassurance seeking can inadvertently reinforce OCD behaviors.

• Just Right OCD reflects a perfectionism that can manifest in various aspects of life.

• School refusal can be a manifestation of OCD, leading to avoidance patterns.

Episode featuring Eli Lebowitz

Check out our Neurodiversity University courses, including Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students.

This episode was edited to add clarity to the subject of school avoidance or refusal, to indicate they aren’t exclusive to OCD. For some neurodivergent kids, it is a matter of a lack of accommodations and supports that make educational settings traumatic environments. School avoidance or refusal is a nuanced subject, and a deeper dive is planned for an episode in the near future.

Natalia Aíza, LPC, is a therapist, parent trainer, and advocate dedicated to increasing awareness and improving treatment for individuals with OCD. She co-founded Kairos Wellness Collective, a therapy center specializing in OCD and Anxiety Disorders, where she works to enhance competency among mental health practitioners and support individuals on their healing journey.

In addition to her clinical work, Natalia provides free psychoeducation and advocacy through her Instagram platform, @letstalk.ocd, helping to destigmatize OCD and promote evidence-based treatment. She earned her BA in Literature from Harvard University and an MA in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from Palo Alto University.

BACKGROUND READING

Instagram

Kairos Wellness Collective

The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com

Today Emily Kircher-Morris welcomes Leah Kuypers, developer of the Zones of Regulation framework, to discuss self-regulation skills. They talk about the importance of emotional awareness, the practical applications of the framework in educational settings, and how it provides a common language for expressing feelings. Leah shares insights from her experience as an occupational therapist and educator, including the impact of the framework on students' ability to communicate their emotions and navigate their environments effectively. They discuss the need to move away from labeling emotions as good or bad, and explore practical strategies for implementing self-regulation tools in educational settings.

TAKEAWAYS

• Self-regulation challenges significantly impact students' well-being and success.

• The Zones of Regulation framework provides a common language for expressing feelings.

• All zones are valid; there are no good or bad zones.

• Visual supports can help neurodivergent students communicate their feelings.

• The framework is designed to foster emotional intelligence and self-awareness.

• Teaching self-regulation skills can reduce reliance on punitive measures.

• The framework can be adapted for various age groups and needs.

• Emotional intelligence can be difficult to articulate, even for older students.

• Co-regulation with adults can help children identify and manage their emotions.

• Understanding the neurobiological aspects of regulation can inform better support strategies.

Check out the Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students course, and all of the others available now in the Neurodiversity University.

Leah Kuypers, MA Ed., OTR/L, is an occupational therapist, autism resource specialist, and educator, dedicated to helping individuals develop self-regulation skills. While working in public schools, she recognized the profound impact that regulation difficulties had on learners’ overall well-being and daily functioning. This led her to develop The Zones of Regulation, a systematic and practical framework designed to foster emotional and sensory regulation.

Since its initial publication in 2011, The Zones of Regulation has sold over 300,000 copies worldwide and has been widely adopted in educational and therapeutic settings. In 2024, Leah launched The Zones of Regulation Digital Curriculum, which has already been implemented in 40 countries. Her team trains more than 8,000 educators and practitioners annually around the globe, equipping them with tools to support learners in developing essential self-regulation skills.

BACKGROUND READING

Zones of Regulation

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The Neurodiversity Podcast is on Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and you’re invited to join our Facebook Group. For more information go to www.NeurodiversityPodcast.com