Join us for an extraordinary conversation with Philip Fierlinger, co-founder of Xero ($25B accounting software company) and current founder of Upstock. From his early days working on groundbreaking projects at General Magic alongside future Apple innovators, to revolutionsing accounting software by making it "sexy," Philip shares the untold stories behind building one of New Zealand's most successful tech companies. Discover how user testing and design-first thinking transformed the accounting industry, why Philip chose New Zealand over Silicon Valley, and the lessons he's applying to his new venture, Upstock. Get insider insights on: - The original moment that made Xero's interface revolutionary - Working alongside Tony Fadell (future iPod/iPhone creator) in the early '90s - How Philip's industrial design background shaped Xero's success - Building marketplace platforms and the challenges of B2B software - The realities of startup life, even after a multi-billion dollar exit Whether you're a founder, designer, or tech enthusiast, this episode offers rare insights into building category-defining companies and the future of B2B software. Learn from one of tech's most innovative design thinkers about what it really takes to create magical product experiences that users love.