This week in digital trust

This week on the podcast, we discuss how the conversation about AI risks seems to be shifting away from the catastrophic, existential, wiping-out-of-humanity type of scenarios.

While the X-risk proponents are still out there, media coverage, regulators and the public at large seem to be homing in on more immediate and tangible AI concerns like discrimination, privacy violations, and misinformation – to name a few.

We explore the reasons for this shift, which includes the fact that many people now have first-hand experience of many AI products - and their limitations.

Links:

Article about over-focus on existential risk (Scientific American) https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/we-need-to-focus-on-ais-real-harms-not-imaginary-existential-risks/

Article about ASIC trial (Crikey) https://www.crikey.com.au/2024/09/03/ai-worse-summarising-information-humans-government-trial/

Article about California AI safety bill SB 1047 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/29/gavin-veto-ai-safety-bill-00181583

Article about Australia's Voluntary AI Safety Standard (elevenM) https://elevenm.com.au/blog/breaking-down-the-voluntary-ai-safety-standard/

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

After five years of consultation on privacy reforms, the Federal Government has finally introduced legislation into the parliament. Its been billed by the Attorney General as the "first tranche" and a "first step", with promises of more reforms to come.

In this episode, we share our reaction to the bill and break down what's in and what's been left for a later day.

We also explore why comprehensive privacy reforms seem so hard to legislate, particularly as the Government seeks to introduce a suite of other tech reforms and obligations on topics such as social media, AI and digital identity.

Links:
Privacy and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024 https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;query=Id%3A%22legislation%2Fbills%2Fr7249_first-reps%2F0000%22;rec=0#4d76d5260955459fb4aa15467f77172e
Attorney General's media release https://www.markdreyfus.com/media/media-releases/better-protection-of-australians-privacy-mark-dreyfus-kc-mp/
elevenM analysis of reforms https://elevenm.com.au/blog/its-time-to-uplift-privacy-why-organisations-need-to-act-now-following-new-law-reforms/
Article about reforms and reaction (InnovationAus) https://www.innovationaus.com/timid-privacy-reforms-disappoint-industry-and-advocates/
OAIC reaction https://www.oaic.gov.au/news/media-centre/oaic-welcomes-first-step-in-privacy-reforms
Katharine Kemp reaction (The Conversation) https://theconversation.com/long-overdue-australian-privacy-law-reform-is-here-and-its-still-not-fit-for-the-digital-era-238214

CHOICE on consumer demand for reform https://www.choice.com.au/privacyreform

Credits:
Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au
Music by Bensound.com

This week Arj is joined by elevenM’s resident digital ID ‘aficionado’ Brett Watson to discuss all things digital identity.

In Episode 85 Jordan and Brett unpacked what a digital ID is, what it can do, and the various services and components that make up a digital ID system. Since then, the Australian Government has passed enabling legislation for its digital identity system and is currently consulting on legislative rules.

With the legislation passed, the government is now shifting its focus on digital ID from theory to practice. In a recent speech to the National Press Club, the Minister for Government Services Bill Shorten was raising awareness about the benefits of a digital ID, announcing a proof of concept and pilot of a digital ID capability.

In this episode Arj and Brett discuss digital ID’s (steady) progress over the last year, and explore the risks, challenges and misconceptions that are likely to be a feature of the digital ID conversation over the next 12 months.

Links:

A government explainer on the Digital ID legislation: https://www.digitalidsystem.gov.au/what-is-digital-id/digital-id-act-2024.

The transcript of Minister Shorten’s speech at the National Press Club on 13 August 2024: https://ministers.dss.gov.au/speeches/15616.

The Australian Strategic Policy Institute’s report - ‘Australia’s new digital ID system: finding the right way to implement it’: https://www.aspi.org.au/report/australias-new-digital-id-system-finding-right-way-implement-it.

About Victor Dominello and the government’s myGov advisory group: https://www.innovationaus.com/dominello-to-lead-mygov-advisory-group/.

About the discontinued Gov.UK Verify digital ID system: https://trustcloud.tech/blog/collapse-gov-uk-verify-serious-questions-national-id-systems/

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

This week, Arj is joined by elevenM colleague Jonathan Gadir to explore how the outcome of the upcoming US presidential election between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris might impact tech policy.

Drawing on the candidate's statements and constituencies, and the existing commitments of their parties, we explore the potential implications of the November election result on AI, privacy, cyber and tech regulation more broadly.

Links:

Biden executive order on AI https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-issues-executive-order-on-safe-secure-and-trustworthy-artificial-intelligence/

Article about Trump's plans to axe AI exec order (NextGov) https://www.nextgov.com/artificial-intelligence/2024/07/trump-pledges-ax-bidens-ai-executive-order/397905/

Article about Trump's plans for AI (WaPo) https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/07/16/trump-ai-executive-order-regulations-military/

Article on Harris V Biden on tech policy (Politico) https://www.politico.com/interactives/2024/kamala-harris-joe-biden-platforms/#YG9yzcrKo9

Article about JD Vance warm feelings for FTC https://www.legaldive.com/news/jd-vances-regulatory-romance-with-the-biden-ftc/723236/

Article on Harris v Trump AI policy https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/harris-trump-differ-artificial-intelligence-policy-112390222

Podcast on Silicon Valley being split between the candidates https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/silicon-valleys-political-rifts-are-going-viral/id1500970749?i=1000664348496

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

This week we're in conversation with Adam Ford, who is Managing Director ANZ for the International Association of Privacy Professionals (full bio below).

IAPP is the largest and most comprehensive privacy community around the globe.

We have a wide-ranging conversation about the trends and emerging demands on the privacy profession, the role privacy practitioners are playing in AI governance challenges, and how to grow the profession in the future.

FULL BIO:

Adam Ford leads the IAPP in the ANZ region. With the support of the global IAPP team, this role embeds Adam amongst a rapidly growing community over 83,000 organizational and individual members with privacy, data protection and AI governance at the core of their responsibilities. Prior to this role, Adam has had 25 year’s experience within the public finance, private equity & non-profit sectors.

Links:

https://iapp.org/

Privacy Governance Report https://iapp.org/resources/article/privacy-governance-report/

AI Governance in Practice Report 2024 https://iapp.org/resources/article/ai-governance-in-practice-report/

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

This week, Arj is joined by elevenM colleague Jonathan Gadir to discuss the small business exemption to the Privacy Act.

The exemption means that businesses with an annual turnover of $3 million or less are generally exempt from complying with the Act.

We explore the pros and cons of the exemption, and whether the government is is likely to remove the exemption as part of current reforms to the Privacy Act (as has been proposed).

Links:

OAIC fact sheet https://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-guidance-for-organisations-and-government-agencies/organisations/small-business

Mass hack exposes ‘gaping’ hole in small business privacy https://www.innovationaus.com/mass-hack-exposes-gaping-hole-in-small-business-privacy/

Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry submission opposing change https://consultations.ag.gov.au/integrity/privacy-act-review-report/consultation/view_respondent?_b_index=360&uuId=753662860

Small business owner % in marginal seats https://www.cosboa.org.au/post/2019/05/02/small-business-people-are-voters-too

Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman oped on small business exemption https://www.asbfeo.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/small-businesses-cant-be-held-same-privacy-standards

Real estate agents privacy practices https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/may/19/real-estate-agents-push-back-against-australian-privacy-law-changes-designed-to-protect-personal-data

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

This week, Arj is joined by elevenM colleague Brett Watson to discuss regulators – who they are, what they do, and the influence they have on public policy.

The conversation focuses on one regulator in particular – Australia’s privacy regulator, the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner. In a few recent public communications, most notably an opinion piece relating to TikTok’s information handling practices, the (relatively) new Privacy Commissioner Carly Kind appears to be taking a more direct and forceful approach to advocating for law reform than we have typically seen from Australian regulators.

Arj and Brett embrace their ‘policy wonk’ tendencies, unpacking a range of political, economic and social factors that help to explain the approaches that regulators take.

Links:

Commissioner Kind’s opinion piece about TikTok and social media organisations harvesting data (paywall) https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/new-laws-needed-to-stop-tiktok-and-other-social-media-giants-harvesting-data-privacy-commissioner-carly-kind/news-story/186676ee74ad7378d9a82b465a976cc5

The OAIC’s media release following filing civil penalty proceedings in the Federal Court against Medibank https://www.oaic.gov.au/newsroom/oaic-takes-civil-penalty-action-against-medibank

Sydney Morning Herald opinion piece on the Medibank proceedings https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/medibank-on-the-hook-for-trillions-but-there-s-more-at-stake-than-money-20240604-p5jj62.html

A recording of the OAIC’s appearance at Senate Estimates on 29 May 2024 (the OAIC’s appearance starts at 19:29:30) https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/Watch_Read_Listen/ParlView/video/2488552

Commissioner Kind appearing on the ANU Tech Policy Design Centre’s ‘Tech Mirror’ podcast, discussing the remit of her role, priorities for law reform, the TikTok matter, Digital ID and privacy as a check and balance on power https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tech-mirror/id1598491978?i=1000660836306

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

This week we're in conversation with Chandni Gupta, Deputy CEO and Digital Policy Director of the Consumer Policy Research Centre (see below for her full bio). The CPRC is Australia’s only dedicated consumer policy think tank.

Our conversation with Chandi explores how the concept of product safety applies to digital products, and the ways in which the constant push towards more frictionless online interactions is potentially undermining safe and fair consumer outcomes. And why "more consumer education" is not necessarily the answer.

We also get into Chandni's research into "dark patterns" or online deceptive design, for which she has recently received a Churchill Fellowship.

Chandni Gupta full bio:

Chandni Gupta is the Deputy CEO and Digital Policy Director of Consumer Policy Research Centre (CPRC) – Australia’s only dedicated consumer policy think tank. Chandni leads CPRC’s research and policy program, while also leading CPRC’s research stream on protecting consumers in a digital world. Her work to date includes exploring the consumer shift from the analogue towards the digital economy, the impact of deceptive and manipulative online design, prevalence of greenwashing on social media and the key gaps that currently exist in Australia’s consumer protections. She also recently received a Churchill Fellowship following her research and policy work on dark patterns.

Prior to CPRC, Chandni has worked in state and federal agencies, including the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and has worked internationally both at the United Nations and the OECD.

Links:

https://cprc.org.au/

https://www.churchilltrust.com.au/fellow/chandni-gupta-vic-2023/

Singled Out report https://cprc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/CPRC-Singled-Out-Final-Feb-2024.pdf

FTC statement on price fixing https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

Is there anything about you on the internet you wish you could take down?

This week Arj is joined by Jonathan Gadir to discuss the "right to be forgotten" or "right to erasure" - a provision in data protection regulations overseas that is being considered as part of the reforms to the Australian Privacy Act.

Overseas, the right has enabled individuals to have newspaper articles about them de-indexed from search engines.

We discuss the merits of the right, competing values like freedom of expression, and the prospect of it being implemented in Australia.

Links:
Art. 17 GDPR: Right to erasure https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr/

Explainer: Right to be forgotten https://gdpr.eu/right-to-be-forgotten/

Article about pros and cons of right to be forgotten (LSJ Online) https://lsj.com.au/articles/the-right-to-be-forgotten/

Article about Google no longer notifying publishers (Guardian) https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/feb/15/google-stops-notifying-publishers-of-right-to-be-forgotten-removals-from-search-results

Stats and examples of Google delisting content https://transparencyreport.google.com/eu-privacy/overview

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com

Dr Katharine Kemp (bio below) is an Associate Professor at the Faculty of Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney, and Deputy Director of the Allens Hub for Technology, Law and Innovation.

In this conversation, we explore how privacy and competition policy concerns are increasingly coming together, particularly in actions underway against tech giants like Meta and Apple.

We also discuss Dr Kemp's recent research (with the CPRC) into the level of control and understanding consumers have about how their information is collected and used.

Dr Katharine Kemp - FULL BIO

Dr Katharine Kemp is an Associate Professor at the Faculty of Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney, and Deputy Director of the Allens Hub for Technology, Law and Innovation. Katharine’s research focuses on competition, consumer protection and data privacy regulation, particularly the intersection of these areas. She has published widely in these fields and is frequently sought out to consult with industry, regulators and policymakers.

In 2023, she received the Australian Financial Review Higher Education Emerging Leader Award acknowledging the transformational impact of her work. Her advisory roles have included representing Australia as a Non-Government Advisor to the International Competition Network, and acting as a Member of the Advisory Board of the Future of Finance Initiative in India and the Expert Panel of the Consumer Policy Research Centre.

She also teaches and convenes courses in Data Privacy Law; Fintech; and Contracts at UNSW Law. Katharine previously practised as a commercial lawyer at major law firms and as a barrister at the Melbourne Bar, and consulted to the Competition Commission of South Africa during the six years that she lived and worked in South Africa.

Links:

Associate Professor Katharine Kemp https://www.unsw.edu.au/staff/katharine-kemp

Singled Out: joint research by UNSW and CPRC https://cprc.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/CPRC-Singled-Out-Final-Feb-2024.pdf

Article on decision against Meta by Bundeskartellamt (NY Times) https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/04/business/meta-germany-data.html

Article on US DOJ action against Apple (The Verge) https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/21/24105363/apple-doj-monopoly-lawsuit

Credits:

Editing and post-production by Martin Franklin (East Coast Studio) eastcoaststudio.com.au

Music by Bensound.com