Today's Conversation

By National Association of EvangelicalsReligion & Spirituality Christianity

Today's Conversation episodes

August 14, 2021Amy Sherman | Reimagining Your Vocation
Whether you are a pastor, nonprofit leader or working professional, many have found this to be a difficult season of work. How do we move beyond the exhaustion and reimagine the vocation God has set before us? The Bible says work is good, and it’s good for us. It is a means of worship and service, and we are called into work so that we may be contributors to other’s flourishing.
In Today’s Conversation podcast, NAE President Walter Kim is joined by Amy Sherman who helps us refocus our perspective on work, while we consider the significance of our vocational callings and the importance of our vocational stewardship.
Walter and Amy also discuss:
How God often uses our work as a vehicle to form us;
Why there isn’t a sacred or secular divide between work and ministry;
How we can be agents for the common good through our work; and
What individuals can consider as they discern or reevaluate their vocational callings.
Read a Portion of the Transcript
Walter: One of the interesting ways that you describe work in your writing is this “vocational stewardship.” What do you mean by that?
Amy: I think we’re familiar in many Christian circles with the idea of financial stewardship. When we use that phrase what we mean is that all of our financial resources are ultimately gifts from God and they’re meant to be stewarded very intentionally according to God’s values and to be deployed for the advancement of God’s kingdom purposes.
Similarly, all of our vocational resources or assets are also ultimately gifts from God, whatever things you happen to be good at, you know if you’re naturally good at art or at math — neither of which I am naturally good at — those are vocational gifts. If God has designed your personality so that you’re a really great counselor or you’re a really great organizer or you’re a really great shepherd and manager of people, those are vocational gifts.
It was through God’s providence that we have had the vocational opportunities that we have had. Ultimately it was God that provided whatever education we’ve been able to have or if we got to apprentice or learn a trade — again these are all gifts from God. And so just like we want to honor God in stewarding our finances well, so we want to honor God and deploy and carefully steward these vocational gifts that he has given to us for his kingdom purposes.
I define vocational stewardship as the strategic and intentional deployment of all of the dimensions of our vocational power — so things like our skills, our expertise, the platforms or positions we might hold, the networks we have, etc. — carefully stewarding all of that to advance foretastes of the kingdom of God.
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Relevant Resources
Read Amy’s latest book, “Kingdom Calling: Vocational Stewardship for the Common Good”
Learn more about Amy and Sagamore Institute’s Center on Faith in Communities.
Listen to related podcasts:
Steve Green | The Bible and Business
Brad Hewitt | How to Be a Money-wise Christian
Today’s Conversation is brought to you by Bless Your Pastor.
The post Amy Sherman | Reimagining Your Vocation appeared first on National Association of Evangelicals.
43 min
August 14, 2021 Amy Sherman | Reimagining Your Vocation
In Today’s Conversation podcast, NAE President Walter Kim is joined by Amy Sherman who helps us refocus our perspective on work, while we consider the significance of our vocational callings and the importance of our vocational stewardship. Walter and Amy also discuss: How God often uses our work as a vehicle to form us; Why ...
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July 15, 2021 Robert Putnam & Shaylyn Romney Garrett | Moving Our Society from “Me” to “We”
In Today’s Conversation podcast, Robert Putnam, research professor of public policy at Harvard University, and Shaylyn Romney Garrett, writer and researcher, remind us of the role Christians played in helping our nation heal before, and they offer hope that we can lead another pivotal and positive change today. Hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, Robert ...
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July 15, 2021 Robert Putnam & Shaylyn Romney Garrett | Moving Our Society from “Me” to “We”
Prior to the 1960s, our nation was in an upswing of economic and social equality with a greater emphasis on the community rather than the individual. But in the '60s, a long-lasting downturn of society began, including social isolation, cultural narcissism and individualistic mentality. Why does our culture still find itself in one of the most divisive times in history? How do we come back to a place of solidarity?

In Today’s Conversation podcast, Robert Putnam, research professor of public policy at Harvard University, and Shaylyn Romney Garrett, writer and researcher, remind us of the role Christians played in helping our nation heal before, and they offer hope that we can lead another pivotal and positive change today.

Hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, Robert and Shaylyn also review:

What caused such polarization in our society;
How our allegiances have changed from religion to politics over time;
Why the data proves we don’t have to be the victims of history; and
How evangelical Christians can help lead to a societal upswing.

Read a Portion of the Transcript
Walter: What will it take us to get out of that kind of tribalism or internal focus? Shaylyn, you know this notion of emotionally allegiances that are tribal in nature — how does that work and how to we combat that?

Shaylyn: I think for sure what we’re seeing is a “religafying” of our political identities across the board. This is not just religious people who are doing this; this is all Americans who are actually beginning to identify their political affiliation as their primary identity, which is a new thing. For example, in mid-century America if your son or daughter was going to get married one of the main concerns would be what religion is that other person that my son or daughter wants to marry, and this inter-religious marriage was a real sticking point at that phase in American history. When you ask the similar sort of questions today: How would you feel if your son or daughter married not someone of a different religion, but someone of a different political affiliation? The numbers are off the charts for how concerned people are about that today.

That’s a new phenomena that’s actually part of this “I” focused phenomenon, but it’s odd that we’ve sort of shifted to what our primary focus is in terms of thinking about our in-group and our identity to make it more salient, our political identities, than maybe we have experienced them to be in the past. So that’s a huge part of it. I think we need to do some heart work and some inner work on asking ourselves, "What is the source of our primary and foundational values?"

In the words in one social gospelers, Washington Gladden, he challenged people to revisit their primary conceptions — What type of men and women are [we] going to show up as in the world and in society, in America as citizens? Are our primary conceptions that we are Republican or that we are Democrat? Or are our primary conceptions somewhere beneath that?

And particularly to your question earlier about what leaders can do — if leaders can lead people through the inner work and the heart work to remind them of what their primary conceptions are —that maybe we’ve layered these political conceptions on top of some primary conceptions that we’ve forgotten. If we can get down to that layer, we can not only free ourselves of these deeply emotional attachments we’ve developed to our politics, but we can also get down to the place where we can start to do some of that racial reconciliation that we have put off for so long in this country. So I think there’s a lot of room for leadership in religious congregations around getting into those hard conversations.

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39 min
June 15, 2021 James Choung | Generational Approaches for Gospel Understanding
In Today’s Conversation podcast hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, James shares what each generation values, and discusses the central gospel question that must be answered for each generation. He also explains: Generational theory and why it is important in our current moment in history; The importance and motivation behind each generation’s question; How churches ...
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June 15, 2021 James Choung | Generational Approaches for Gospel Understanding
Baby Boomers are more likely to be Christians than any other generation. Millennials are least likely of other generations to attend religious services. Does each generation necessitate a different approach when being presented with the good news? This is the question James Choung, vice president of strategy and innovation for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, has spent years researching and answering.

In Today's Conversation podcast hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, James shares what each generation values, and discusses the central gospel question that must be answered for each generation. He also explains:

Generational theory and why it is important in our current moment in history;
The importance and motivation behind each generation's question;
How churches and pastors can reach different age groups at the same time; and
How this information impacts the way we share the gospel.

Read a Portion of the Transcript
Walter: Lay out a framework for us of the different generations and what kinds of questions these different generations are asking.

James: What Strauss and Howe talk about in "Generations," as they were looking at American history, is that there was a four generation cycle that repeated itself through generations.... This cycle only skipped a generation once and that was during the Civil War, which was such a traumatic experience for our country, but besides that jump it’s been these four generational cycles of what they call the "prophet" generation, then the "nomad," then the "hero" generation and the "artist" generation.

What they did back when this book came out in 1991 was predict ahead, using the cycle, what these folks would be like. And so, at that time the Millennials would have been at most about 10 years old, and they made predictions about what they would be like as adults and a lot of that seemed to pass. It made them the foremost experts on Millennials. Since then, Strauss has passed away. Others have taken on the next generational leadership about the next generations. But that idea — I wondered if that had some implications for us in the spiritual realm as well. I wondered if there was a driving spiritual question of the day for each generation, and so the quick, going through that without explaining why, would be:

Boomers, born between '46 and '64. They are asking, "What is true?" Being one of the last, truly modern generations
Xers being one of the first postmodern generations, born from '65 to '80. They ask "What is real?"
Millennials, born between '81 and '96, ask "What is good?"
iGens or Gen Z, born about '97 to 2015ish (that’s still being debated), they ask "What is beautiful?"

I think then if you don’t answer their front door spiritual question — all those questions are important — but if you don’t answer that first, front door question, they won’t want to hear your answer to the other questions.

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Share the Love
If you enjoyed the program, please rate it on iTunes and write a brief review. That will help get the word out and raise the visibility of the show.
Relevant Resources

Check out James' books:

“Real Life: A Christianity Worth Living Out
“Longing for Revival: From Holy Discontent to Breakthrough Faith”
“True Story: A Christianity Worth Believing In”

Listen to these related podcasts:

Rebecca McLaughlin | How the Gospel Answers Culture's Questions
Kaitlyn Schiess | Spiritual Formation for Public Life
Jolene Erlacher | Unravelling the Mysteries of Millennials

Read articles from our Evangelicals magazine issue, Context and Connection, on ministry to different generations.

37 min
May 15, 2021 Rebecca McLaughlin | How the Gospel Answers Culture’s Questions
Rebecca reminds listeners to “always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect” (1 Peter 3:15). She and host NAE President Walter Kim also discuss: Why there is a biblical, but not secular basis for ...
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May 15, 2021 Rebecca McLaughlin | How the Gospel Answers Culture’s Questions
For many unbelievers, issues around diversity and sexuality are roadblocks to the Christian faith. But in Today's Conversation podcast, Rebecca McLaughlin shows how a deeply biblical and intellectually honest approach transforms cultural roadblocks into compelling signposts for the good news of Jesus Christ.

Rebecca reminds listeners to "always be prepared to give an answer to anyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15). She and host NAE President Walter Kim also discuss:

Why there is a biblical, but not secular basis for all self-evident truth;
How to address the idea that evangelical Christians are on the "wrong side of history" on issues like same-sex relationships;
Why involving the Christian community is so important in relationships with unbelievers; and
How to approach difficult cultural conversations with empathy and humility.

Read a Portion of the Transcript
Walter: How can we approach conversations of faith, conversations where we are seeking to persuade with empathy and humility? How do we go about that?

Rebecca: It’s always hard because we’re always, at least I speak for myself, I’m always fighting with my own ego in these situations. There’s a piece of me, if somebody says something that I think is wrong about Christianity or somebody accuses Christians in general or me in particular of hypocrisy or whatever it is, there’s a piece of us that rises up and wants to shoot back. We are specifically told in Scriptures not to do that and we’re told to love our enemies. We’re told to give a reason for the hope that we have but to do it with gentleness and respect.

I think the ways that can play out for us in conversation is first we need to acknowledge and validate the ways in which our non-Christian friends’ objections to Christianity are actually good objections, and they’re right to have them. Whether it’s about race or the way Christians have treated people who identify as LGBT or whatever area it is, often our first move really needs to be, say, “Yeah I agree with you.” Rather than go straight to the defensive, actually say, "Yeah you’re right, and to the extent I have been complicit in that as a Christian, I need to repent of that." There are my own sins and sins of my tribe that I need to be ready to repent of to the Lord but also in conversation with friends.

I think it’s very easy for us to confuse defending the gospel and sort of standing for our faith in Jesus with defending ourselves and our own record and the record of our tribe. But really, as Christians we should always be ready to recognize that the way to move forward is repentance in faith, clinging on to Jesus, holding firm to the Scriptures and recognizing our own moral adequacy in it.

I love how in the first letter to Timothy, how Paul, just a few verses after he has named same-sex sexual relationships among other sins, just a very few verses later in the first chapter of that book he says, “This is a trustworthy saying, worthy of full acceptance that Christ Jesus came to the world to save sinners, of whom I am the worst." He was not actually coming as a judgmental, self-righteous bigot throwing stones at people. He was saying, "I am the worst sinner I know, and Jesus came to save even me."

I think that there’s something ultimately liberating about that for us as Christians. As we call our friends to repentance, we’re not doing so from the moral superiority that Jesus can command. We’re actually doing so from a position of moral inferiority. I think that’s liberating and I think it can open up conversations in a different way with friends and I think we can draw on the extraordinary richness God has given us in the global Church… In Christianity, one of the beauties that we have in evangelism and apol...
36 min
April 15, 2021 Raymond Chang | Understanding the Asian American Experience
In this podcast hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, you’ll also gain understanding on: How the model minority myth and perpetual foreigner syndrome affect Asian Americans today; What unique contributions Asian Americans offer the Church; How to love and care for Asian American friends and neighbors; and A word of encouragement for those who are ...
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April 15, 2021 Raymond Chang | Understanding the Asian American Experience
Over the past year, nearly 3,800 incidents of name-calling, shunning and assault against Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders have been reported to Stop AAPI Hate. How should we as Christians understand this dramatic increase of violence against Asian Americans? How did we get here? In Today's Conversation podcast, Raymond Chang traces anti-Asian sentiment and actions through U.S. history, and offers a mini-cultural sensitivity training to listeners.

In this podcast hosted by NAE President Walter Kim, you'll also gain understanding on:

How the model minority myth and perpetual foreigner syndrome affect Asian Americans today;
What unique contributions Asian Americans offer the Church;
How to love and care for Asian American friends and neighbors; and
A word of encouragement for those who are weary from the heaviness of racial injustice and other societal and personal tragedies.

Read a Portion of the Transcript
Walter: Part of sensitivity training, of course, is awareness of this history of the model minority and perpetual foreigner myths, but you’ve also alluded to something way beyond cultural sensitivity training. You’ve alluded to the life, death and resurrection of Jesus; you’ve alluded to the power of the Holy Spirit to transform. In your role at Wheaton in areas of discipleship as campus minister, what is a Christian response in terms of a deeper discipleship in this area?

Raymond: Because we are working in a world where sin loves to wreak havoc — it loves to establish patterns that harm people and divide people including Christians — and where race and racism have been significant forces in our formation is why so much of the church in the United States is divided especially along racial lines.

You see that in the ways that we vote — which everyone has the right to vote their conscience — but it’s interesting our votes are often tied with our race more than our faith and that we use apologetics to defend a particular partisan position instead of actually seeing that both parties are completely flawed in the country as well as the ways that no party actually represents Jesus and his kingdom fully.

One of the things that I am finding over and over, including at my work at Wheaton, is that many of the students come in seeking to be a part of a kingdom community that’s very diverse and that celebrates all the contributions that God has instilled within each people group with each community, and yet find it very difficult that some groups are more exclusionary than other groups and maintain harmful stereotypes because they often come from homogenous churches and homogenous upbringings.

I do think that we need to have a race-conscious and gender-conscious discipleship so that we don’t perpetuate the harms that we are seeing throughout society.

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Share the Love
If you enjoyed the program, please rate it on iTunes and write a brief review. That will help get the word out and raise the visibility of the show.
Relevant Resources

Uncover the history behind the first two pieces of federal legislation — the Page Act of 1875 and the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 — that prevented Chinese immigrants from coming to America. As a point of clarification from the podcast, The Page Act came prior to The Chinese Exclusion Act even though the Exclusion Act of 1882 is often regarded as the first law restricting immigration to the United States.
Connect with the Asian American Christian Collaborative, and check out their list of recommended resources for continued learning.
Learn more about incidences of hate against Asian Americans at Stop AAPI Hate.
Read NAE's statement on anti-Asian violence.
Discover NAE resources on racial justice.

39 min

About Today's Conversation

From the publisher's feed

Today’s Conversation is the podcast of the National Association of Evangelicals. Host Walter Kim, NAE president, talks with leading thinkers, theologians, activists, culture-makers and more, with the goal of helping evangelicals foster thriving communities and navigate complexity with biblical clarity.