Heidi and Ellen talk to Caroline and Yhu Ahn. Both are trying to figure out their next steps forward after being stay-at-home moms for many years. Caroline is in the midst of a major transition that includes a divorce after a long marriage and an empty nest after 3 children. She would love to find work that is creative and emblematic of this new stage (9:28).  Yhu Ahn has young children. She would like to get back to her writing and feel the pulse of her life outside the home (20:15). Heidi and Ellen also talk about the movie The Banshees of Inisherin; the shows Better Things and Station Eleven (Ellen is re-watching both); the web series Grandmas Project; and the books Bookends by Zibby Owens and Unraveling by Peggy Orenstein. Ellen also reads a passage from Tarot for Change by Jessica Dore (32:59).