Trinities

As we've seen, the "Athanasian Creed" appears to be incoherent, that is, inconsistent with itself.

One response is to creatively interpret it in a way which does seem coherent. We will explore this approach many future episodes.

Another response is to stick with the other catholic creeds, such as the "Apostles'" and Nicene creeds, rejecting the "Athanasian Creed" as unnecessary and unhelpful.

That's what's argued in this episode, by Anglican minister Stephen Nye (1648-1719). Most of the episode is a reading of most of his 1689 tract, Brief Notes on the Creed of St. Athanasius. Nye is a controversialist with a flair for pointed language; be forewarned that you may be offended by a few things he says here.

In the next episode, we'll hear from other Anglicans defending the "Athanasian Creed" against the arguments of Nye and others, and we'll see how some of Nye's arguments hold up under scrutiny.

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (scroll down – you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

You can support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.com after clicking through one of our links. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see “trinities” in you url while at Amazon, the we’ll get it.)

Resources:

* Nye's Brief Notes - in a collection from 1691.

* Dixon's Nice and Hot Disputes - a fairly complete history of the fascinating London controversy over the Trinity c. 1687-1698 which was touched off by the above, and a couple other controversial writings by Nye and his friends. The book takes a traditional catholic mysterian stance throughout.

* Walker's Reason and Religion in Late Seventeenth-Century England. A good book, although more interested in issues of religious freedom than in theology.

* The relevant part of current Episcopal Book of Common Prayer. The "Creed" appears here in the appendix of historical documents. But scroll down to the "Articles of Religion" section VIII to see the change discussed in this episode.

In this episode: an interesting historical episode relating to the "Athanasian Creed." It makes a grown man cry.

This creed really "starts up" Christian philosophers; surely, a distinction here, a distinction there, and the appearance of contradiction can be chased away. But, our efforts are not always appreciated, as Abelard learns in the year 1121.

This episode incorporates part of Abelard's famous History of My Calamities. Thanks to my colleague B. for voicing  Abelard.

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (scroll down – you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

You can support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.com after clicking through one of our links. We get a small % of your purchase, even though your price is not increased. (If you see “trinities” in you url while at Amazon, then we’ll get it.)

Links for this episode:

* Richard Cartwright, and his "On the Logical Problem of the Trinity"

* The quote from Wissowatius

* Abelard's entire History of My Calamities

* "Peter Abelard" at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

* Clanchy's Abelard: A Medieval Life

* Brower and Guilfoy (eds.) The Cambridge Companion to Abelard and Brower's exposition of Abelard on the Trinity

* Mews's Abelard and Heloise

This is your introduction to the statement most Christian philosophers start with, when they try to construct a self-consistent and plausible way of interpreting the claim that God is three equally divine "persons". Of uncertain origin, through the middle ages, it rose to prominence in the Roman Catholic, and then in other catholic traditions.

It's credited to this gent here, Athanasius (d. 373), but can't be by him. I neglected to mention that the creed seems to echo language used in several places in the late writings of Augustine (d. 430)

Many thanks to my friend Caroline Roberts for reading the creed for us, and to her husband, the multi-talented Bob Roberts for recording her. Check out Bob's website (also here) if you have any books you need expertly and lovingly rebound. Thanks to their generosity, you'll be hearing Caroline's beautiful voice again in some future creed episodes!

Resources:

* J.N.D. Kelly's classic monograph on the Quicunque. It was his translation from the Latin we used in this episode.

* And the quote re: laughter is from Keith Ward's God: A Guide to the Perplexed, which asserts what I call a one-self Trinity theory.

I should also thank this awesome web-based service: auphonic. This helps me to easily tweak sound quality and distribute through so many venues. Tip: if you have a very rough audio recording of a public lecture or talk, upload it to them and use all their standard processing - it'll come out much more listenable!

You can also listen to this episode on Stitcher or iTunes (please subscribe, rate, and review us in either or both – directions here). It is also available on YouTube (scroll down – you can subscribe here). If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

You can support the trinities podcast by ordering anything through Amazon.

After a lot of work, and help from many people, I'm ready to launch the trinities podcast. As I start, I have completed all or parts of about eight episodes, with no shortage of ideas for more episodes. I plan to release an episode each Monday, at least until I need a break.

I'm not looking back.

This first episode is just about me and about my ideas for the podcast. I promise that upcoming episodes will be more interesting!

In this episode, I failed to mention another kind of content: debates. I have some episodes relating to those ready to go. Stay tuned.

Please help get the word out.

You can also listen to this episode on stitcher or itunes (please subscribe and rate us in either or both) or youtube.  If you would like to upload audio feedback for possible inclusion in a future episode of this podcast, put the audio file here.

Finally, you can just listen or download here at trinities: just click the "Audio mp3 button below."

Each episode will be released with a blog post, in many cases containing relevant links.

Thanks for listening!