On November 29, 2012, Keyes gave what would be his final FBI interview. It is one of his most revealing, both in his candor about his crimes and in his tells and contradictions. In this interview, Keyes discusses Crescent Lake, four Washington victims, Tupper Lake, blood found on his boat, knives he used in murders, maps found in his Constable house, and more. There are also some very interesting conversations surrounding items found at the Constable house, and further evidence that there was a New Hampshire cache trip after the Curriers.

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The team returns to Texas to look at a case, which Jordan has been following for four years, that involves a suspicious death, an arson, and an abandoned house. And this case may just shed light on some of Keyes's odder travels and some new and unsettling information on the Azle bank robbery.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Jordan Taylor. 
With editing and writing by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research assistance by: Michelle Tooker.  

TROVA TRIP TO COSTA RICA:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:
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SOURCES
• Houston Police Department Casefile, Case #030249612
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/12/12
• Harris County Office of Forensic Sciences Report 12-0671
• Houston Fire Department Report 12-0680736
• HOUSTON, TX Weather History | Weather underground. (n.d.). https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/KHOU/date/2012-3-9
• Pinkerton, J. (2014, April 5). HPD sergeant fired, 7 other disciplined in murder case probe. Chon. Retrieved May 26, 2025, from https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/HPD-sergeant-fired-7-others-disciplined-in-5377253.php
• Pearson, L. (n.d.). Who came up with HPD’s “SL” code that suspended 264K cases? Panel identifies former assistant chief. https://abc13.com/amp/post/houston-police-suspended-cases-what-is-sl-code-lack-of-personnel-donald-mckinney/14822151/
• FBI interview with Israel Keyes: 07/10/2012
• James E. Lankford. (2011). Peak DB SPL of various Firearms (5 Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• In J Am Acad Audiology (Vol. 22, pp. 93–103). https://www.caohc.org/UserFiles/fileShot%20of%20Prevention%20extra%20handout.pdf
• Miyara, F. (n.d.). A NOTE ON FIRECRACKER’S NOISE. https://www.fceia.unr.edu.ar/acustica/biblio/firecr1.htm
• Azele Police Dept Case # 2012-961

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie, Melissa Tracchia.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

A case the team has been looking into for over four years, makes its podcast debut; where a crime in an Israel Keyes hotspot eerily matches a chapter from one of his favorite books.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Michelle Tooker. 
Additional research, editing, and writing by Josh Hallmark. 
Research assistance by: Shana Wilensky and Jordan Taylor.  

PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

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Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCB
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SOURCES
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/unsolved-jeffrey-mitchell-murder-sacramento-17382062.php
https://www.facebook.com/share/1GyTUQpCYZ/
https://www.dailydemocrat.com/2006/10/29/link-between-van-deputy-explored/?clearUserState=true
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/crime/unsolved-california-wife-of-murdered-deputy-shares-her-hope-for-justice-and-how-she-keeps-jeffrey-mitchells-legacy-alive/103-9e1af8e8-984b-4c1a-b69f-ec7cc64b9e85
https://ohp.parks.ca.gov/listedresources/detail/575
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/238696800/jeffrey\_vaughn-mitchell
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article2581679.html
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sacbee/name/allan-shubert-obituary?id=13658767
https://unresolved.me/deputy-jeffrey-mitchell
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/sacramento-county-woman-vanished-2010-homicide-suspect-arrested/
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/sacbee/name/allan-shubert-obituary?id=13658767

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Robin, Carol, H Beth Jones, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Josh is out sick and snowed in this week. So, in lieu of a new episode, we're sharing the entirety of the July 10, 2012 FBI interview with Keyes - which has been critical in our work this season. Topics include: The Deschutes attack, Keyes's first murder, the victim ruled accidental, his time in the Army, murders on his boat, and more.

PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

• Factor: Get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year, by using code TCBS50OFF at factor.com/tcbs50off
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• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
• Cornbread Hemp: Get 30% off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Dan del Rossi, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Josh and the team discuss how Israel Keyes used infrastructure maps to scout, hide and/or bury his caches and victims. This may just be the key to solving his crimes.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
With additional research by Kathy Nation, Jordan Taylor, and Michelle Tooker.
This episode featured Kathy Nation, Jordan Taylor, Michelle Tooker, and Shana Wilensky.
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

• Factor: Get 50% off your first Factor box PLUS free breakfast for 1 year, by using code TCBS50OFF at factor.com/tcbs50off
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Music by: Sonic Yard. 
Featured music by: The Foundry Field Recordings 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Asch Fish, Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Dan del Rossi, Trista, Nichole, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Michelle, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, David Begley, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Chris S, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen Trocola, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

We're pushing out until we return for the holiday break on January 19, with FIVE EXTRA EPISODES. Our initial episode count of 8, increased to 12, and now we know we have more than enough content to put out 17 very strong episodes this season (which means 7 more episodes).

Upcoming travel:
On January 8th, I'll be in LA with Tooker and Charlie (Crimelines) for a happy hour and meet-up at the Bigfoot Lodge on Los Feliz Blvd from 6-8pm. Stop by and join us for drinks and conversation.
Additionally, the trip to Iceland has sold out. But we're working on a second 2026 Trova Trip for those of you wanting something warm, tropical, and closer to home. That announcement will be coming soon.

Thanks for your patience, support, and understanding. Have a wonderful holiday season. <3

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

For the month of December, True Crime creators are getting together for conversations about podcasting, true crime, and the nexus between the two. We’ll discuss creating our shows, behind-the-scenes moments, fears and hopes, the cases that have gripped us, and more.

In this conversation Amanda (Wine & Crime), Charlie (Crimelines), and Josh (True Crime Bullsh**) discuss: friendships in podcasting, war stories from the road, podcast advice, feeling misunderstood, weird purchases, pop culture, and more.

Enjoy this conversation and be sure to check out the rest:

• Jessie (Love Murder), Bob (Buried), Joshua (Somewhere in the Pines)
• Javier (Pretend), Kristen (Murder, She Told), Shaun (Sins & Survivors)
• Patrick (True Crime Obsessed), Josh (True Crime Bullsh**), Eric (True Consequences)
• Gillian (True Crime Obsessed), Alvin (Affirmative Murder), Lanie (True Crime Cases with Lanie)
• Robin (The Trail Went Cold), Nina (Already Gone), John (Sins & Survivors)
• Aaron (Generation Why), Lucy (Wine & Crime), Kristen (Murder, She Told)
• Amanda (Wine & Crime), Josh (True Crime Bullsh**), Andie (Love Murder), Charlie (Crimelines)

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

For the month of December, True Crime creators are getting together for conversations about podcasting, true crime, and the nexus between the two. We’ll discuss creating our shows, behind-the-scenes moments, fears and hopes, the cases that have gripped us, and more.

In this conversation we discuss: gay podcasting, advocacy and compassion in podcasting, dick pics, criticism, the genesis of our shows, our favorite podcasts of the year, and more. 

Enjoy this conversation and be sure to check out the rest:

• Jessie (Love Murder), Bob (Buried), Joshua (Somewhere in the Pines)
• Javier (Pretend), Kristen (Murder, She Told), Shaun (Sins & Survivors)
• Patrick (True Crime Obsessed), Josh (True Crime Bullsh**), Eric (True Consequences)
• Gillian (True Crime Obsessed), Alvin (Affirmative Murder), Lanie (True Crime Cases with Lanie)
• Robin (The Trail Went Cold), Nina (Already Gone), John (Sins & Survivors)
• Aaron (Generation Why), Lucy (Wine & Crime), Kristen (Murder, She Told)
• Amanda (Wine & Crime), Josh (True Crime Bullsh**), Andie (Love Murder), Charlie (Crimelines)

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh-the-israel-keyes-investigation--3588169/support.

Josh and team dissect various information and semantics surrounding Keyes's male-female couple. They circle back to Eugene Hyatt and Kami Vollendroff, and then deep-dive the disappearance of a Spokane couple. Then new information from a friend of Keyes gives the team a new perspective not on just the male-female couple and the vicitm ruled accidental, but potentially all of Keyes's unknown victims. 

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Kathleen S. and Jordan Taylor
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

RESOURCES

• NAMUS
• The Charley Project
• Pacificorps.com
• LowImpacthydro.org
• Damsafety.org
• The Washington state digital archives
• The Spokesman Review

SPONSORS:

• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
• Cornbread Hemp: Get 30% off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS
• BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at www.BetterHelp.com/TCB
• Quince: Get free shipping at www.Quince.com/TCBS

Music by: William Hellfire, Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov, Whithe, and Sero. 
Featured music by: Patrick Watson 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.

TROVA TRIP to ICELAND
Learn more and/or reserve your spot at https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/iceland/iceland-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2026  
 
PATREON
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand  

SPONSORS:

• Uncommon Goods: Get 15% off at www.UncommonGoods.com/TCBS
• Cornbread Hemp: Get %30 off your first order by using promo code TCBS at www.cornbreadhemp.com/TCBS
• BetterHelp: Get 10% off your first month at www.BetterHelp.com/TCB
• Quince: Get free shipping at www.Quince.com/TCBS

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/true-crime-bullsh--3588169/support.