In light of new revelations about Keyes's childhood and time in Eastern Washington, we further explore his upbringing, religious history, and his family's beliefs; which all lead us back to that farmhouse in Hunters, Washington. And from there, we try to make sense of what happened on April 2, 2005.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Jordan Taylor  
And additional research by: Michelle Tooker and Shana Wilensky.

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https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1997/jun/17/cheyne-kehoe-turns-himself-in-brother-still-on/https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/influential-christian-identity-pastor-dies/https://www.splcenter.org/resources/extremist-files/christian-identity/https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/christian-identity-movementhttps://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/christian-identity-movement-analyzing-its-theologicalhttps://califias.blogspot.com/2014/10/art-bulla-and-church-of-jesus-christ.htmlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliven_Bundy

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Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 
Featured music by: Joan as Police Woman

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen S, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

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A childhood friend of Israel's comes forward to discuss his time in Colville, Christian Identity, the Keyes family, Israel's early crimes, and more.

This episode was written, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 

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Featured music by: Kate Dalton. 

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A childhood friend of Israel's comes forward to discuss his time in Colville, Christian Identity, the Keyes family, Israel's early crimes, and more.

This episode was written, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 

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Music by: Denhollander. 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen Studer, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey D, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Ally, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion, Trixie.

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The Cold War, Prohibition, the Gold Rush, the Space Race. Every part of your life - the words you speak, the ideas you share - can be traced to our history, but how well do you really know the stories that made America? We'll take you to the events, the times and the people that shaped our nation. And we'll show you how our history affected them, their families and affects you today. Hosted by Lindsay Graham (not the Senator).

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We first covered Hunters, Washington back in season two. And while our reporting on it paused, our investigation into it did not. Jordan and an anonymous source have spent years digging into Hunters and the abandoned farmhouse there. And even as we thought there was nothing left to find, new information began pouring in. And continued pouring in as recording and post-production on this episode were happening.

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
With research by: Jordan Taylor, Shana Wilensky, and Michelle Tooker.  

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Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen Studer, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey Deatly, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion.

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Josh and Michelle Tooker examine Keyes's comments about and references to abducting and murdering couples. They take a look at what exactly that might mean, follow-up on previously covered cases, and take a look at new ones. And then they hone in on what the team may have been overlooking all along.  

This episode was written, researched, and produced by Michelle Tooker. 
It was edited and post-produced by Josh Hallmark.
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky and Jordan Taylor.  

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Music by: Radical Face, Itai Argaman, Sergey Cheremisinov, and Nocturne. 
Featured song by: Peter & Kerry 

Patreon producers: Amy Basil, Kendall C., Heather Horton-Whedon, Sherri D, Kirsten Hoffman, Dale Akstin, Stephanie Taylor, Lydia Rodarte Quayle, Drew Vipond, Amelia Hancock, Christina Sisson, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Jillian Natale, Lana Halladay, Rural Juror, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Kathleen Studer, Annette L, Casey Jensen-Richardson, SC, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Trista, Nichole, Asch Fish, Becky C, Pink, JenJ, Corey Deatly, Robin, Carol, Jordan M, Kate Lussier, John Comrie, Kathy Nation, Carrie, Jordan T, Bethany, Lauren Ferri, Emily Payne, Tori Myers, Sabrina Abbott, Megan Inman, Meaghan Daigle, Ashley Kuplin, Michael Randall, DeWayne C, Jen, Justin Runion.

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Join Josh, Shana, and Tooker in Iceland on our next Trova Trip: June 13 - 19, 2026.

Check out the itinerary and RESERVE your spot today

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Josh follows up on a new tip from FBI Special Agent Ted Halla. It takes him to familiar ground, both literally and in cases he's looked into previously. This new tip, with some research and fascinating conversations, compels Josh to some interesting and shocking conclusions. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
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Music by: Radical Face, Odyssey, and 9 Moons. 
Featured song by: Hannah Cohen. 

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


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Josh goes over the investigation into Israel Keyes's death; including what was found in his cell, what led to it, and how it happened. Plus new information opens an online can of worms, and sends Josh to Washington state. 

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
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Music by: Radical Face, Sero, Helvv Kryd, and Nocturne. 
Featured song by: Stars. 

Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


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In the season 7 premiere, Josh goes over a long list of significant new evidence, answers a few big questions, and asks plenty more new questions. A picture of a woman found in Keyes's car paints a very clear picture of some of his activity. New maps, journals, writings, and more set the stage for an eye-opening season.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark. 
Additional research by: Shana Wilensky, Michelle Tooker, and Jordan Taylor.  
 
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:  
www.truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi  
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Music by: Radical Face, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Jozeque. 
Featured song by: Thom Yorke.
Patreon producers: Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Asch Fish, Becky C, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Christina Sisson, Corey Deatly, Dale Akstin, Drew Vipond, Heather Horton-Whedon, Jen Jacobi, Jillian Natale, Kathleen Studer, DeWayne C, Kendall C, Lana Halladay, Nicole and Dennis Henry, Pink, SC, Bethany Heintz, Michael Randall, Ashley Kupin, Carrie, Kathy Nation, Emily Paine, Megan Inman, Lauren Ferri, Carol, Robin, Shelly, Sabrina Abbott, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Trista, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Kate Lussier, Tori Myers, Nichole, and Lydia Rodarte Quayle.


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