Under the Scales

Welcome to Undermine Season 4! We are back to track the road to Fall ‘97, and to celebrate amazing shows of the 1990s while leading up to that legendary tour. From now through December, we’ll be tracking Phish’s progression in the 1990s by focusing on 25 important shows of the 90’s—leading up to the tour that changed everything, Fall 1997, and we’ll discuss EVERY show of that tour. 

We start this season with 11/2/90, from Boulder, Colorado, with guest John Paluska. This show is notable because of course, this is Phish’s second trip to Colorado. In 1990, they would play 20 shows there. This show was a widely circulated tape, with some notable music moments we’ll discuss. And of course, John Paluska was Phish’s manager from 1990-2004, and helped the band grow in every way during the 1990s. 

Thanks to our partners at Green Future Wealth—they can help with all of your financial planning needs.

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman and Eric Limarenko. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Production assistance from Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At the end of the 13 show Baker’s Dozen, a run filled with jams, bustouts, debut covers, and zero repeats, Phish was awarded a banner to commemorate the event that would hang in the rafters of MSG among legendary sports achievements. And yet, like with the best moments in Phish history, the band didn’t simply sit back and admire their accomplishment, they used it to push themselves forward. Just as the Dick’s 2012 run inspired a return to jamming and setlist deconstruction, all of which built towards The Baker’s Dozen, the BD in turn has inspired Phish over the past five years to push through musical barriers, furthering their improvisational capabilities & pushing their music in ways no one thought possible.  

In the Season Finale of Undermine S3 we assess what The Baker’s Dozen meant & how it inspired Phish to attack 2018 and 2019, while also laying the groundwork for one of the best years of their career - 2021. In conversations with fans and Phish thinkers alike, we explore the songwriting explosion that came out of The Baker’s Dozen, and the renewed approach to show structure now that they’d seen how impactful their jamming could be within a show. 

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next season.

Thanks To Our Partners:

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When they returned from the hiatus in 2009, it took time for the band to regain their fluid improvisation. Over the next four years, they worked to strengthen their onstage communication, refine their approach, and ultimately reignite their jamming in 2012. From there, they began experimenting and taking risks, and by the time they reached The Baker’s Dozen, they were ready to take another step forward in their improvisation—dedicating three weeks to deep jamming. Since this run, jamming has become a focus of Phish’s live shows, pushing the band forward creatively in ways many never expected. 

In this episode, we dive into the band’s approach to improvisation, with a specific focus on their evolution from Dick’s 2012 through The Baker’s Dozen. Identifying key breakthroughs, stylistic shifts, and the resulting brilliance of the Summer 2017, we discuss The Baker’s Dozen as an achievement as well as a laboratory to propel the band forward. Through discussions with music experts and fans, we celebrate the jams of The Baker’s Dozen and explore how they ushered in the next phase of Phish’s career.

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Episode Four pic by Andrea Nusinov. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.

Thanks To Our Partners:

We are thrilled to be sponsored by cashortrade.org

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For as long as Phish fans have gathered to discuss and debate the band, the band’s setlists have been a consistent talking point. What songs are in the rotation, how do jams in typically non-jamming slots affect a show, why were there so many bustouts in a single show, what’s the thematic arc of the show? These topics and more have been analyzed by fans for decades—and we know it’s been thought about extensively by the band as well. By way of The Baker’s Dozen, Phish coalesced nearly 40 years of setlisting experimentations into a single run.

In Undermine S3E3 we dive into the evolution of Phish setlists. Beginning with 1993’s expanding catalog and 1994’s irreverent experimentation, we walk listeners through the band’s approach to crafting setlists based on the muse of the time. We discuss the approach to setlisting that separated the 3.0 era by way of 2012, and how comfortable and confident the band felt playing 13 shows with zero repeats by 2017. Beginning with a snapshot of Federal Donuts, we dive into one of the most unique aspects of The Baker’s Dozen—the songs Phish played.

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.

Thanks To Our Partners:

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Throughout their history, Phish has constantly sought new ways to break down the barriers between their performance and their audience. Dubbed, The Long Gig (the LG), the band initially conceived of an indoor show where they’d announce to the audience that the doors were locking and they were going to play for 24hrs straight. This idea ultimately evolved into the band’s all-night set at Big Cypress on 12/31/99, and served as an inspiration for The Baker’s Dozen seventeen years later. 

In Undermine S3E2 we explore the concept of residencies in rock music, as well as in New York City, while diving into the evolving structure of a Phish tour which sought to create as immersive an experience as possible for fans. Focusing on the organizational approach to Big Cypress, we highlight the logistics of putting on such an event and how this impacted the band’s decision to set up shop in New York City for three weeks. We close by hearing from the 13er club as they chart through their experiences between the January 2017 announcement of The Baker’s Dozen to the journey of 13 straight Phish shows. The gig is long, but the jams - as we’ll discuss in a later episode - were worth it.

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.

Thanks To Our Partners:

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the Summer of 2017 Phish settled into Madison Square Garden, “The World’s Most Famous Arena,” for a residency of 13 shows, immortalized as The Baker’s Dozen. Across nearly three weekends and four weekday gigs, Phish played 230+ songs without repeating a single one. They fused jokes from their past with music that looked ahead to their future, and connected with the fan community in a way they’d long hoped to. It was a historic run—not only for the band, but in rock history.

In the first episode of the season, Phish lyricist Tom Marshall walks listeners through the history of Madison Square Garden, as well as Phish’s history in that room. Highlighting the importance of the venue to 20th Century American Culture, as well as the comfort Phish had playing in such a historic room, we set the table for our third season on the band’s home court. We hear from journalists such as Will Hermes and Rob Mitchum, as well as fans who got to all 13 nights of the run such as Dianna Hank and Sam Timberg. 

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brain Brinkman, Matt Dwyer, and Benjy Eisen. Produced and edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. It is written by Benjy Eisen. Production assistance from Rob Mitchum, Matt Bavuso, Christina Collins and Nick Cejas. Original Music by Amar Sastry. Art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all our interviewees. We’ll see you next week.

Thanks To Our Partners:

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey there, Undermine fans! Please enjoy the first episode of our new fiction podcast: Sugar Maple. If you like what you hear, be sure to subscribe to see where the story goes!

In the series premiere, we meet our narrator, Terrance Woodridge, who brings us a tale he’s chased down: the story of Sugar Maple, the guitar of legend with a timeless sound that's passed from hand to hand over the years.

In this episode, we go back to 1951 and hear the story of "Sweet Licks" Bobby Lindro, an orphan from the farmlands outside Chicago. When his brand new Telecaster’s neck is destroyed, he's sure nothing can replace it, until his Aunt procures mysterious wood that seems to make Bobby's guitar truly sing, and gives Bobby dreams that carry him places he never meant to go.

Sugar Maple is presented by Osiris Media. Be sure to listen to the premiere of the song from this episode, Brimstone Lampfire, on March 15, wherever you listen to music. Please check out the limited edition poster for this episode, and the limited NFT release of episode and series art. If you like what you hear, please give us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. 

Episode 1 stars Fred Savage as Terrance Woodrige, pRicky Gee as Bobby Lindro, Connie Castanzo as Becky, Jo Walker as Rebecca Woodridge,  Deborah Geffner as Aunt Buggy, Daniel Light as Del Faucet, and Michelle Hurst as Doc. 

Brimstone Lampfire was written by Patrick Hart and Michael John Hancock.  

The Executive Producers of Sugar Maple are Tom Marshall and RJ Bee. Produced, Edited, Mixed and Mastered by Brad Stratton. Story by Ben Colmery, A.R. Moxon, and Tom Marshall. Episode 1 written by A.R. Moxon and Ben Colmery. Directed by James Masciovecchio. Musical direction by Don Hart. Produced by Tom Sullivan. Production assistance from Zach Brogan and Christina Collins. Art by Mark Dowd. Legal assistance from Gerald Gottesman. 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

At the onset of the 2020s, Trey Anastasio got stuck on a platform high above MSG. While he played through with humor and grace, the moment would serve as the prelude to a year where we all felt unhinged. For those who were infected by Covid, or lost loved ones, 2020 was a nightmare. For everyone, it was an unexpected pause, marked by tension and a longing for normalcy.

In the Season 2 finale, we explore the last two years, through the lens of Phish. We hear from the Undermine team about our experiences in 2020, how Dinner And A Movie and The Beacon Jams helped us get through the year at home, and then we shift gears to discuss Phish in 2021. We talk about the anxiety of returning to live music, the thrill of hearing the first notes, and how Sci-Fi Soldiers may impact Phish long term. The band gave us a number of unexpected, albeit needed, gifts over the previous two years, proving once again, that if we as a community, simply surrender to the flow, the magic of Phish will prove that you’re already *there*.

Thanks to everyone who has listened, commented, and shared Season 2! We will be back in Spring 2022 with Season 3!

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook, and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 

Thanks to our partners: 

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To this point, Season 2 of Undermine has mirrored the fan experience with Phish—traveling to see them, engaging with the community, and trying to understand why we dedicate so much time, energy and money to this band. But what happens if you fall in love with Phish but have no ability to see them live or to engage with the community in person? What does the band mean to you if they’re 10,000 miles away? 

In this episode, we meet Phish fans from around the world. Some are foreign nationals who discovered the band via the internet but have had limited opportunities to see the band. Others are Americans who either went to live abroad, or chased the band overseas because they couldn’t get enough. Featuring interviews with Lee Farber, Mark Lewis, Jason Tully, Dylan Behan and more, we explore the global reach of Phish to better understand the total power of their music.

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading storyteller in music. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook, and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 

Thanks to our partners: 

Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Beyond the tape trading, the road trips, the lot vibe, the people you meet, the lights dropping, etc, the reason we all come back to Phish is for the music. Why do people throw everything they have into this band? Why are we podcasting about them in 2021? Why are we trying to decipher all of their inside jokes? Why are we debating and relisting to jams decades after they happened?

In this episode we explore these questions and more. Focusing on the world Phish has built through their music, we hear from die hard fans who break down the why behind their Phish fandom. Featuring interviews with Dave Calarco, Carla Ngo, Scott Bernstein, Pu Tzu and more, this episode looks at the extreme in-joke nature of the Phish fan experience and tries to better understand why we simple cannot get enough of this crazy band. 

Undermine is brought to you by Osiris Media, the leading music storyteller. Executive Producers are Tom Marshall, RJ Bee, Brian Brinkman and Matt Dwyer. Written by Benjy Eisen. Produced and Edited by Brian Brinkman. Mixed and Mastered by Matt Dwyer. Produced by David Goldstein, Jonathan Hart, Brad TenBrook and Dawn Jenkins. Production assistance and writing by Noah Eckstein and Julia Shuster. Social media by Nick Cejas. Original music by Amar Sastry. Show art by Mark Dowd. Thank you to all of our interviewees. 

Thanks to our partners: 

Find out how Upstart can lower your monthly payments today.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices