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In this episode, Jane Craigie talks to Iain Craigie about the instability of Afghanistan and Pakistan and the coming together of the international intelligence community to create the facility at Pine Gap in Australia to understand and mitigate this threat. 

The discussion also covers Iain's views on how power might shift towards countries like China as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic. "China is in a very strong position," he said. 

Iain talks about the value of diplomats and international intelligence community. terrorism, about truly feeling for a country, its land and its people. 

"Terrorists are looking to bring humanity to  a standstill."