Nina Churchill quit her corporate PMM job effective immediately. She then wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn that reached about half a million people. She's a fellow product marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts, where she helps B2B companies stop sounding like everyone else. We get into the post, the burnout and the 11 weeks of FMLA before it, and why we put up with behavior at work that we'd call abuse at home. Then the useful stuff. Why your manager is the top reason you stay or go. The questions to ask a hiring manager before you take the job. And oh yeah, by the way? She's also coming to Death to Marketing in October. Timestamps00:00 Welcome, and the hosts introduce themselves00:29 Meet Nina Churchill, recovering performance marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts01:27 Nina's coming to Death to Marketing (and Saugatuck)02:06 Gab's question: are product marketers ultimately marketers?03:42 The LinkedIn post that made Eric want to run through a wall04:18 A new manager, a burnout, and 11 weeks of FMLA06:44 "Effective immediately"07:06 Half a million people and a flood of DMs07:46 Why do we accept at work what we'd call abuse at home?10:32 Any backlash? "I can't like this, but I respect it"11:09 "Your LinkedIn is your LinkedIn"12:25 Jumping without a parachute: therapy, ADHD, and deleting the apps15:34 Blood pressure, cortisol, and life after quitting17:59 Boundaries: bad at them, or never practiced?18:59 Fresh View Concepts, 2011, and some questionable age math19:32 Running her business differently this time around20:20 "Oh, you look stable"21:15 Productive in two hours, not eight23:06 The moment she decided she was the boss23:29 The agency that always had her back25:10 From bartending to product marketing in HR tech26:07 How much your manager really matters27:59 Interview the hiring manager too30:38 The coworker who gave her name to recruiters32:04 Why she signed up for Death to Marketing34:50 Do we need to hide the booze? Mocktails for everybody35:58 Death to sameness37:31 Payroll, and why nobody trusts your AI39:40 Where to find Nina: the Sameness Report and Whirl Additional sources1. Fresh View Concepts, Nina's positioning consultancy <a href="https://freshviewconcepts.com">https://freshviewconcepts.com</a>2. Whirl, Nina's AI mock interview tool (free if you were recently laid off) <a href="https://whirlinterview.com">https://whirlinterview.com</a>3. Nina Churchill on LinkedIn <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/</a>4. Nina's writing at 3Sixty Insights <a href="https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/">https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/</a>5. PostHog, Nina's example of a brand that's actually different <a href="https://posthog.com">https://posthog.com</a>6. Death to Marketing, October 2026 <a href="https://www.death-to-marketing.com">https://www.death-to-marketing.com</a> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Nina Churchill quit her corporate PMM job effective immediately. She then wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn that reached about half a million people. She's a fellow product marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts, where she helps B2B companies stop sounding like everyone else. We get into the post, the burnout and the 11 weeks of FMLA before it, and why we put up with behavior at work that we'd call abuse at home. Then the useful stuff. Why your manager is the top reason you stay or go. The questions to ask a hiring manager before you take the job. And oh yeah, by the way? She's also coming to Death to Marketing in October. Timestamps 00:00 Welcome, and the hosts introduce themselves 00:29 Meet Nina Churchill, recovering performance marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts 01:27 Nina's coming to Death to Marketing (and Saugatuck) 02:06 Gab's question: are product marketers ultimately marketers? 03:42 The LinkedIn post that made Eric want to run through a wall 04:18 A new manager, a burnout, and 11 weeks of FMLA 06:44 "Effective immediately" 07:06 Half a million people and a flood of DMs 07:46 Why do we accept at work what we'd call abuse at home? 10:32 Any backlash? "I can't like this, but I respect it" 11:09 "Your LinkedIn is your LinkedIn" 12:25 Jumping without a parachute: therapy, ADHD, and deleting the apps 15:34 Blood pressure, cortisol, and life after quitting 17:59 Boundaries: bad at them, or never practiced? 18:59 Fresh View Concepts, 2011, and some questionable age math 19:32 Running her business differently this time around 20:20 "Oh, you look stable" 21:15 Productive in two hours, not eight 23:06 The moment she decided she was the boss 23:29 The agency that always had her back 25:10 From bartending to product marketing in HR tech 26:07 How much your manager really matters 27:59 Interview the hiring manager too 30:38 The coworker who gave her name to recruiters 32:04 Why she signed up for Death to Marketing 34:50 Do we need to hide the booze? Mocktails for everybody 35:58 Death to sameness 37:31 Payroll, and why nobody trusts your AI 39:40 Where to find Nina: the Sameness Report and Whirl Additional sources 1. Fresh View Concepts, Nina's positioning consultancy https://freshviewconcepts.com 2. Whirl, Nina's AI mock interview tool (free if you were recently laid off) https://whirlinterview.com 3. Nina Churchill on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/ 4. Nina's writing at 3Sixty Insights https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/ 5. PostHog, Nina's example of a brand that's actually different https://posthog.com 6. Death to Marketing, October 2026 https://www.death-to-marketing.com Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Nina Churchill quit her corporate PMM job effective immediately. She then wrote a series of posts on LinkedIn that reached about half a million people. She's a fellow product marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts, where she helps B2B companies stop sounding like everyone else. We get into the post, the burnout and the 11 weeks of FMLA before it, and why we put up with behavior at work that we'd call abuse at home. Then the useful stuff. Why your manager is the top reason you stay or go. The questions to ask a hiring manager before you take the job. And oh yeah, by the way? She's also coming to Death to Marketing in October. Timestamps00:00 Welcome, and the hosts introduce themselves00:29 Meet Nina Churchill, recovering performance marketer and founder of Fresh View Concepts01:27 Nina's coming to Death to Marketing (and Saugatuck)02:06 Gab's question: are product marketers ultimately marketers?03:42 The LinkedIn post that made Eric want to run through a wall04:18 A new manager, a burnout, and 11 weeks of FMLA06:44 "Effective immediately"07:06 Half a million people and a flood of DMs07:46 Why do we accept at work what we'd call abuse at home?10:32 Any backlash? "I can't like this, but I respect it"11:09 "Your LinkedIn is your LinkedIn"12:25 Jumping without a parachute: therapy, ADHD, and deleting the apps15:34 Blood pressure, cortisol, and life after quitting17:59 Boundaries: bad at them, or never practiced?18:59 Fresh View Concepts, 2011, and some questionable age math19:32 Running her business differently this time around20:20 "Oh, you look stable"21:15 Productive in two hours, not eight23:06 The moment she decided she was the boss23:29 The agency that always had her back25:10 From bartending to product marketing in HR tech26:07 How much your manager really matters27:59 Interview the hiring manager too30:38 The coworker who gave her name to recruiters32:04 Why she signed up for Death to Marketing34:50 Do we need to hide the booze? Mocktails for everybody35:58 Death to sameness37:31 Payroll, and why nobody trusts your AI39:40 Where to find Nina: the Sameness Report and Whirl Additional sources1. Fresh View Concepts, Nina's positioning consultancy <a href="https://freshviewconcepts.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://freshviewconcepts.com</a>2. Whirl, Nina's AI mock interview tool (free if you were recently laid off) <a href="https://whirlinterview.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://whirlinterview.com</a>3. Nina Churchill on LinkedIn <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.linkedin.com/in/ninachurchill/</a>4. Nina's writing at 3Sixty Insights <a href="https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://3sixtyinsights.com/author/ninachurchill/</a>5. PostHog, Nina's example of a brand that's actually different <a href="https://posthog.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://posthog.com</a>6. Death to Marketing, October 2026 <a href="https://www.death-to-marketing.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.death-to-marketing.com</a> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Death to Sameness w/ Nina Churchill

Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs marketing at Capsule, where enterprise teams like HubSpot, ServiceNow and Instacart build on-brand video without going through a creative team, and she has spent two years watching product marketers get stuck in the same queue. Her fix runs against the standard playbook. Stop treating the launch video as the last asset. Make it first, because it is the most complex format you own, and once it is right the copy, the visuals and the email GIFs all fall out of it. She also walks through what an agentic video skill actually does, step by step, and says the quiet part out loud about her own category: most AI product demos are not showing you real output. Then the whole thing detours into a pizza tier list that somehow lands the sharpest AI argument in the episode. SHOW NOTES00:00 Cold open and host introductions00:41 Natalie joins, and admits she has never held the title of product marketer01:56 The question the show exists for: are product marketers actually marketers?02:18 Why marketing labels never made sense to her03:20 "You're a marketer if you're doing marketing"03:24 The one exception: why demand gen sits in its own bucket05:19 The Tuesday afternoon Slack message that says "let's do some product videos"05:54 Everyone is being asked to make video, job description or not07:36 The old workflow: ask the creative team, join the queue, wait08:25 Fully agentic video, without opening an editing tool09:23 Eric asks whether video is back in fashion or just newly possible10:17 What Twitter's feed of launch videos says about the format11:14 Capsule starts with the launch video instead of ending with it12:58 Anthropic as the model for tier-two launches14:01 Capacity versus tooling when you are one person15:19 Video skills, walked through with a Zendesk example16:36 Why most AI video tools are one shot, and why this one hands you a project18:39 What a PMM should actually go learn about video19:52 You should not need to be an expert to make something good20:43 Gab on developing taste21:03 The agentic promise versus the learning curve nobody mentions23:31 Zach on feeling like an idiot yelling into a chatbot24:07 Smoke and mirrors, and how Natalie is launching against the hype25:05 The pizza tier list begins27:34 "An AI agent won't be able to do that for you"30:03 Zach imagines Natalie as a MasterChef judge31:03 Pizza is a canvas, and so is AI33:17 The pizza industry secret, and the oven she and her husband built35:07 Chicago, New York, or New Haven35:53 Where to find Natalie SOURCESCapsule, the video platform Natalie runs marketing for: <a href="https://capsule.video">https://capsule.video</a>Modern Pizza Products, the oven she co-founded: <a href="https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com">https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com</a>Emily Kramer's fuel and engine framework: <a href="https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine">https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine</a>Natalie on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/</a> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs marketing at Capsule, where enterprise teams like HubSpot, ServiceNow and Instacart build on-brand video without going through a creative team, and she has spent two years watching product marketers get stuck in the same queue. Her fix runs against the standard playbook. Stop treating the launch video as the last asset. Make it first, because it is the most complex format you own, and once it is right the copy, the visuals and the email GIFs all fall out of it. She also walks through what an agentic video skill actually does, step by step, and says the quiet part out loud about her own category: most AI product demos are not showing you real output. Then the whole thing detours into a pizza tier list that somehow lands the sharpest AI argument in the episode. SHOW NOTES 00:00 Cold open and host introductions 00:41 Natalie joins, and admits she has never held the title of product marketer 01:56 The question the show exists for: are product marketers actually marketers? 02:18 Why marketing labels never made sense to her 03:20 "You're a marketer if you're doing marketing" 03:24 The one exception: why demand gen sits in its own bucket 05:19 The Tuesday afternoon Slack message that says "let's do some product videos" 05:54 Everyone is being asked to make video, job description or not 07:36 The old workflow: ask the creative team, join the queue, wait 08:25 Fully agentic video, without opening an editing tool 09:23 Eric asks whether video is back in fashion or just newly possible 10:17 What Twitter's feed of launch videos says about the format 11:14 Capsule starts with the launch video instead of ending with it 12:58 Anthropic as the model for tier-two launches 14:01 Capacity versus tooling when you are one person 15:19 Video skills, walked through with a Zendesk example 16:36 Why most AI video tools are one shot, and why this one hands you a project 18:39 What a PMM should actually go learn about video 19:52 You should not need to be an expert to make something good 20:43 Gab on developing taste 21:03 The agentic promise versus the learning curve nobody mentions 23:31 Zach on feeling like an idiot yelling into a chatbot 24:07 Smoke and mirrors, and how Natalie is launching against the hype 25:05 The pizza tier list begins 27:34 "An AI agent won't be able to do that for you" 30:03 Zach imagines Natalie as a MasterChef judge 31:03 Pizza is a canvas, and so is AI 33:17 The pizza industry secret, and the oven she and her husband built 35:07 Chicago, New York, or New Haven 35:53 Where to find Natalie SOURCES Capsule, the video platform Natalie runs marketing for: https://capsule.video Modern Pizza Products, the oven she co-founded: https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com Emily Kramer's fuel and engine framework: https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine Natalie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/ Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Video landed on every marketer's plate this year. Nobody added headcount for it, and nobody explained how to actually get one made. Natalie Taylor runs marketing at Capsule, where enterprise teams like HubSpot, ServiceNow and Instacart build on-brand video without going through a creative team, and she has spent two years watching product marketers get stuck in the same queue. Her fix runs against the standard playbook. Stop treating the launch video as the last asset. Make it first, because it is the most complex format you own, and once it is right the copy, the visuals and the email GIFs all fall out of it. She also walks through what an agentic video skill actually does, step by step, and says the quiet part out loud about her own category: most AI product demos are not showing you real output. Then the whole thing detours into a pizza tier list that somehow lands the sharpest AI argument in the episode. SHOW NOTES00:00 Cold open and host introductions00:41 Natalie joins, and admits she has never held the title of product marketer01:56 The question the show exists for: are product marketers actually marketers?02:18 Why marketing labels never made sense to her03:20 "You're a marketer if you're doing marketing"03:24 The one exception: why demand gen sits in its own bucket05:19 The Tuesday afternoon Slack message that says "let's do some product videos"05:54 Everyone is being asked to make video, job description or not07:36 The old workflow: ask the creative team, join the queue, wait08:25 Fully agentic video, without opening an editing tool09:23 Eric asks whether video is back in fashion or just newly possible10:17 What Twitter's feed of launch videos says about the format11:14 Capsule starts with the launch video instead of ending with it12:58 Anthropic as the model for tier-two launches14:01 Capacity versus tooling when you are one person15:19 Video skills, walked through with a Zendesk example16:36 Why most AI video tools are one shot, and why this one hands you a project18:39 What a PMM should actually go learn about video19:52 You should not need to be an expert to make something good20:43 Gab on developing taste21:03 The agentic promise versus the learning curve nobody mentions23:31 Zach on feeling like an idiot yelling into a chatbot24:07 Smoke and mirrors, and how Natalie is launching against the hype25:05 The pizza tier list begins27:34 "An AI agent won't be able to do that for you"30:03 Zach imagines Natalie as a MasterChef judge31:03 Pizza is a canvas, and so is AI33:17 The pizza industry secret, and the oven she and her husband built35:07 Chicago, New York, or New Haven35:53 Where to find Natalie SOURCESCapsule, the video platform Natalie runs marketing for: <a href="https://capsule.video" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://capsule.video</a>Modern Pizza Products, the oven she co-founded: <a href="https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.modernpizzaproducts.com</a>Emily Kramer's fuel and engine framework: <a href="https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://newsletter.mkt1.co/p/fuel-engine</a>Natalie on LinkedIn: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/" rel="noopener noreferrer">https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliecstaylor/</a> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Why Is Every Product Marketer Suddenly Being Asked to Make Video? w/ Natalie Taylor

Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your positioning project is probably being run by the wrong person. We cover customer research frameworks, the CEO buy-in problem no one talks about, and the Irish convenience store that is a crime against positioning. Hit play before your next messaging doc meeting. You'll thank us. More from this episode<ul><li>Product marketing only exists because B2B tech companies got so far from their customers they had to invent a role to translate what the product actually does.</li><li>Why the most powerful thing a consultant can offer is not being inside the company.</li><li>Lou's actual Hotjar failure — why the CMO wasn't enough to make repositioning work.</li><li>The six things you need to know from customers before you can touch a positioning doc.</li><li>Why calling something a "marketing initiative" is the fastest way to kill CEO buy-in.</li><li>"Sniff the same glue" — Lou's surprisingly accurate description of organizational alignment.</li><li>The 3-meter Irish storefront that is simultaneously a convenience store, Indian takeaway, off-license, and Red Bull dealer. One shop. Three meters. Zero positioning.</li><li>Why community is just a word companies use when they want a place to sell at people without being obvious about it.</li><li>Lou's hot take on co-founders: "Good luck to whoever wants to take that role with me."</li><li>The one customer research mistake that guarantees useless data: talking to the wrong people at the wrong time. </li></ul> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your positioning project is probably being run by the wrong person. We cover customer research frameworks, the CEO buy-in problem no one talks about, and the Irish convenience store that is a crime against positioning. Hit play before your next messaging doc meeting. You'll thank us. More from this episodeProduct marketing only exists because B2B tech companies got so far from their customers they had to invent a role to translate what the product actually does.Why the most powerful thing a consultant can offer is not being inside the company.Lou's actual Hotjar failure — why the CMO wasn't enough to make repositioning work.The six things you need to know from customers before you can touch a positioning doc.Why calling something a "marketing initiative" is the fastest way to kill CEO buy-in."Sniff the same glue" — Lou's surprisingly accurate description of organizational alignment.The 3-meter Irish storefront that is simultaneously a convenience store, Indian takeaway, off-license, and Red Bull dealer. One shop. Three meters. Zero positioning.Why community is just a word companies use when they want a place to sell at people without being obvious about it.Lou's hot take on co-founders: "Good luck to whoever wants to take that role with me."The one customer research mistake that guarantees useless data: talking to the wrong people at the wrong time. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your positioning project is probably being run by the wrong person. We cover customer research frameworks, the CEO buy-in problem no one talks about, and the Irish convenience store that is a crime against positioning. Hit play before your next messaging doc meeting. You'll thank us. More from this episode<ul><li>Product marketing only exists because B2B tech companies got so far from their customers they had to invent a role to translate what the product actually does.</li><li>Why the most powerful thing a consultant can offer is not being inside the company.</li><li>Lou's actual Hotjar failure — why the CMO wasn't enough to make repositioning work.</li><li>The six things you need to know from customers before you can touch a positioning doc.</li><li>Why calling something a "marketing initiative" is the fastest way to kill CEO buy-in.</li><li>"Sniff the same glue" — Lou's surprisingly accurate description of organizational alignment.</li><li>The 3-meter Irish storefront that is simultaneously a convenience store, Indian takeaway, off-license, and Red Bull dealer. One shop. Three meters. Zero positioning.</li><li>Why community is just a word companies use when they want a place to sell at people without being obvious about it.</li><li>Lou's hot take on co-founders: "Good luck to whoever wants to take that role with me."</li><li>The one customer research mistake that guarantees useless data: talking to the wrong people at the wrong time. </li></ul> Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Allergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier

Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you. More From This Episode<ul><li>The brutal truth: What happens when you don't earn internal respect as a PMM</li><li>Why sales teams don't talk to product teams (and how PMMs become the bridge)</li><li>The one customer question David asks that unlocks everything: "What are your quarterly priorities?"</li><li>David got fired for fighting a founder on product strategy—here's what he learned</li><li>Why most founders have zero idea what PMMs actually do (and think you're just a lead gen machine)</li><li>The "gut feeling" trap: When executives ignore your research and launch anyway</li><li>How to stop rolling your eyes when leadership makes dumb decisions (David admits he's not good at this)</li><li>Why working under the product org might actually be better for PMMs</li><li>The ultimate PMM flex: Knowing your customer better than anyone in the company</li><li>Are PMMs actually marketers, or just the people who make sales decks look pretty?</li></ul> Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction and Season 5 Kickoff00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO)02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole)07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org)13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own?20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback)23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss)29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit"40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard)42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you. More From This EpisodeThe brutal truth: What happens when you don't earn internal respect as a PMMWhy sales teams don't talk to product teams (and how PMMs become the bridge)The one customer question David asks that unlocks everything: "What are your quarterly priorities?"David got fired for fighting a founder on product strategy—here's what he learnedWhy most founders have zero idea what PMMs actually do (and think you're just a lead gen machine)The "gut feeling" trap: When executives ignore your research and launch anywayHow to stop rolling your eyes when leadership makes dumb decisions (David admits he's not good at this)Why working under the product org might actually be better for PMMsThe ultimate PMM flex: Knowing your customer better than anyone in the companyAre PMMs actually marketers, or just the people who make sales decks look pretty? Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction and Season 5 Kickoff 00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO) 02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole) 07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration 09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org) 13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do 16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own? 20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback) 23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else 26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss) 29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards 33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research 35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy 38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit" 40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard) 42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference 45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right 47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations 49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process 50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you. More From This Episode<ul><li>The brutal truth: What happens when you don't earn internal respect as a PMM</li><li>Why sales teams don't talk to product teams (and how PMMs become the bridge)</li><li>The one customer question David asks that unlocks everything: "What are your quarterly priorities?"</li><li>David got fired for fighting a founder on product strategy—here's what he learned</li><li>Why most founders have zero idea what PMMs actually do (and think you're just a lead gen machine)</li><li>The "gut feeling" trap: When executives ignore your research and launch anyway</li><li>How to stop rolling your eyes when leadership makes dumb decisions (David admits he's not good at this)</li><li>Why working under the product org might actually be better for PMMs</li><li>The ultimate PMM flex: Knowing your customer better than anyone in the company</li><li>Are PMMs actually marketers, or just the people who make sales decks look pretty?</li></ul> Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction and Season 5 Kickoff00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO)02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers?04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole)07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org)13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own?20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback)23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss)29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit"40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard)42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

“I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim)

Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the consulting path drops truth bombs about why 90% of company data is garbage, why product management is harder than PMM (fight us), and how being hyper-organized means her 9-year-old has never eaten a frozen chicken nugget. If you've ever wondered whether to charge hourly or by project, or why your messaging doc is just an expensive PDF no one reads, this episode will either inspire you to level up or quit entirely. Either way, you win. More from this episode... <ul><li>Product marketers are demand translators, not demand creators (and why that matters) </li><li>The Oscar Mayer Wienermobile taught Crystal crisis management at 19 </li><li>Why product management is 10x harder than PMM (Crystal said it, not us) </li><li>90% of company data is dirty - and that's being generous </li><li>The one question that determines if you should take a consulting client </li><li>Why Crystal's kids live by the Pomodoro method (and only have one TV) </li><li>How to use silence to negotiate like a pro (hint: treat yourself like a product) </li><li>The real reason your messaging docs are expensive paperweights </li><li>Why you should NEVER offer free consulting work (but acts of service are different) </li><li>Crystal's secret: "Happiness is a choice" - even when clients are a nightmare </li></ul>Show Notes 00:59 Introducing Crystal Crouch: The PMM Who Changed Zach's Life02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? The Demand Translation Theory05:00 Why Product Management is 10x Harder Than PMM08:00 The Real Definition of GTM (Spoiler: You're Probably Wrong)12:00 Crystal's Journey to Consulting: From Church to Clients15:30 Three Lessons for Consultant Success17:00 The Truth About Free Work and Acts of Service19:00 How Crystal Balances It All: Pomodoro Method & One TV23:00 Living by the Calendar: The Secret to Work-Life Balance26:00 Negotiation Masterclass: Treat Yourself Like Product Pricing29:00 Why 90% of Company Data is Garbage31:00 The ROI Question: How to Handle It Like a Pro33:00 Automatic Client Red Flags36:00 Fixing Broken Data Without Doing It Yourself40:00 Building Confidence: Stop Competing With Others44:00 The Power of Kindness in Business47:00 Why Every PMM Needs Sales Training48:50 Happiness is a Choice: Crystal's Final Wisdom Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the consulting path drops truth bombs about why 90% of company data is garbage, why product management is harder than PMM (fight us), and how being hyper-organized means her 9-year-old has never eaten a frozen chicken nugget. If you've ever wondered whether to charge hourly or by project, or why your messaging doc is just an expensive PDF no one reads, this episode will either inspire you to level up or quit entirely. Either way, you win. More from this episode... Product marketers are demand translators, not demand creators (and why that matters) The Oscar Mayer Wienermobile taught Crystal crisis management at 19 Why product management is 10x harder than PMM (Crystal said it, not us) 90% of company data is dirty - and that's being generous The one question that determines if you should take a consulting client Why Crystal's kids live by the Pomodoro method (and only have one TV) How to use silence to negotiate like a pro (hint: treat yourself like a product) The real reason your messaging docs are expensive paperweights Why you should NEVER offer free consulting work (but acts of service are different) Crystal's secret: "Happiness is a choice" - even when clients are a nightmare Show Notes 00:59 Introducing Crystal Crouch: The PMM Who Changed Zach's Life 02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? The Demand Translation Theory 05:00 Why Product Management is 10x Harder Than PMM 08:00 The Real Definition of GTM (Spoiler: You're Probably Wrong) 12:00 Crystal's Journey to Consulting: From Church to Clients 15:30 Three Lessons for Consultant Success 17:00 The Truth About Free Work and Acts of Service 19:00 How Crystal Balances It All: Pomodoro Method & One TV 23:00 Living by the Calendar: The Secret to Work-Life Balance 26:00 Negotiation Masterclass: Treat Yourself Like Product Pricing 29:00 Why 90% of Company Data is Garbage 31:00 The ROI Question: How to Handle It Like a Pro 33:00 Automatic Client Red Flags 36:00 Fixing Broken Data Without Doing It Yourself 40:00 Building Confidence: Stop Competing With Others 44:00 The Power of Kindness in Business 47:00 Why Every PMM Needs Sales Training 48:50 Happiness is a Choice: Crystal's Final Wisdom Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Crystal Crouch turned driving the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile into a product marketing empire - and she's not keeping the secrets. The woman who put Zach on the consulting path drops truth bombs about why 90% of company data is garbage, why product management is harder than PMM (fight us), and how being hyper-organized means her 9-year-old has never eaten a frozen chicken nugget. If you've ever wondered whether to charge hourly or by project, or why your messaging doc is just an expensive PDF no one reads, this episode will either inspire you to level up or quit entirely. Either way, you win. More from this episode... <ul><li>Product marketers are demand translators, not demand creators (and why that matters) </li><li>The Oscar Mayer Wienermobile taught Crystal crisis management at 19 </li><li>Why product management is 10x harder than PMM (Crystal said it, not us) </li><li>90% of company data is dirty - and that's being generous </li><li>The one question that determines if you should take a consulting client </li><li>Why Crystal's kids live by the Pomodoro method (and only have one TV) </li><li>How to use silence to negotiate like a pro (hint: treat yourself like a product) </li><li>The real reason your messaging docs are expensive paperweights </li><li>Why you should NEVER offer free consulting work (but acts of service are different) </li><li>Crystal's secret: "Happiness is a choice" - even when clients are a nightmare </li></ul>Show Notes 00:59 Introducing Crystal Crouch: The PMM Who Changed Zach's Life02:36 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? The Demand Translation Theory05:00 Why Product Management is 10x Harder Than PMM08:00 The Real Definition of GTM (Spoiler: You're Probably Wrong)12:00 Crystal's Journey to Consulting: From Church to Clients15:30 Three Lessons for Consultant Success17:00 The Truth About Free Work and Acts of Service19:00 How Crystal Balances It All: Pomodoro Method &amp; One TV23:00 Living by the Calendar: The Secret to Work-Life Balance26:00 Negotiation Masterclass: Treat Yourself Like Product Pricing29:00 Why 90% of Company Data is Garbage31:00 The ROI Question: How to Handle It Like a Pro33:00 Automatic Client Red Flags36:00 Fixing Broken Data Without Doing It Yourself40:00 Building Confidence: Stop Competing With Others44:00 The Power of Kindness in Business47:00 Why Every PMM Needs Sales Training48:50 Happiness is a Choice: Crystal's Final Wisdom Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Strategy over fluffy jargon w/ Crystal Crouch

Launch trailer for the first episode of We're Not Marketers Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Launch trailer for the first episode of We're Not Marketers Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Launch trailer for the first episode of We're Not Marketers Hosted on Ausha. See <a href="https://ausha.co/privacy-policy" rel="noopener noreferrer">ausha.co/privacy-policy</a> for more information.

Trailer - Season 1

B2B product marketers in SaaS businesses are feeling misunderstood. Struggling to position what they do internally. Colleagues not having one clear idea what they do either.

What if there was a better way? This is We're Not Marketers.

The new podcast for SaaSy B2B product marketers who want CEO buy-in on what they do. Get the weekly masterclass without the inflated tuition and entry-level requirements, just to get your foot in the door.

Stop being overlooked and start listening.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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B2B product marketers in SaaS businesses are feeling misunderstood. Struggling to position what they do internally. Colleagues not having one clear idea what they do either. What if there was a better way? This is We're Not Marketers. The new podcast for SaaSy B2B product marketers who want CEO buy-in on what they do. Get the weekly masterclass without the inflated tuition and entry-level requirements, just to get your foot in the door. Stop being overlooked and start listening. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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