Mike Palmer welcomes Carlo Rotella, a professor at Boston College and author of the book What Can I Get Out of This? Teaching and Learning in a Classroom Full of Skeptics. Rotella, who has an academic specialty in the cultures of cities and also writes for magazines like The New York Times Magazine, approaches his classroom as a "scene" much like a boxing gym or a music club, where people practice a craft and hone their "chops".

We dive into the book, which captures the spring semester of 2020 and presents a narrative-style look at Rotella's required freshman literature course. He shares his mission: to change his students' initial question from "Can I get out of this?" to "What can I get out of this?" by treating the interpretation of literature as a learnable craft, not "sorcery or bullshit".

Rotella explains how this approach requires us to build a strong classroom community, including policies like banning devices and expecting every student to speak at every class meeting. He reveals the effort required to get quiet students to participate, sometimes using techniques like rehearsing answers in office hours—just as a team practices a play. Rotella argues that in a world of AI and "endless number of talking heads" , the classroom remains a vital "haven" where students can build critical skills and practice analytical response to the world.

🔑 Key Takeaways

- Teaching as a Craft: Rotella treats teaching the interpretation of literature as a practical, learnable craft, focusing on skills like pattern recognition and extracting meaning from the world.

- Building Community: A core philosophy involves making the classroom a community where every student must "ante up" and contribute, often facilitated by a no-devices policy and the expectation that everyone speaks in class.

- The Power of Face-to-Face: The pandemic and the rise of AI have made the physical classroom more valuable and "cutting edge" than ever as a unique human experience.

- The Loneliness of the Modern Student: Today’s college students are highly accomplished but are also more anxious, isolated, and less comfortable with trial-and-error than previous generations.

- Reading as Resistance: Reading is framed as an "athletic" exercise that builds mental "muscles in your core" like critical skills, attentional fortitude, and the ability to assess reliability—skills essential for navigating an AI-driven world.

🎧 Why You Should Listen

If you're an educator, writer, or just curious about how humans truly learn in a time of radical change, listen in as Rotella shows us that the most memorable and lasting impact of a class often comes from the experience of working together—not just the content. We discuss how to use students' "violent reaction against a work of art as the way in" and why we need to show people how to move beyond outrage and into analysis.

We close with Rotella's belief that a liberal arts education offers durable tools for life, reminding us of the enduring power of a shared intellectual experience—like the unforgettable image of a guy in an elephant suit.

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Time Stamps:

00:00 Introduction to Carlo Rotella and His Book

01:04 Carlo's Professional Journey and Writing Career

02:15 Exploring the Classroom as a Scene

06:23 The Impact of the Pandemic on Teaching

08:39 Building Community and Engagement in the Classroom

12:21 The Value of Face-to-Face Learning

17:02 The Lasting Impact of Classroom Experiences

19:13 Understanding Reactions to Art

20:04 Insights into Gen Z's College Experience

21:31 Challenges and Changes in Modern Education

22:58 The Importance of Reading and Critical Thinking

25:28 AI's Impact on Education and Society

29:44 Teaching Strategies for the Modern Classroom

36:04 Final Thoughts and Takeaways