On this episode, Institute for Progress senior editor Santi Ruiz joins Oren to talk about government efficiency, state capacity, and what President-elect Trump's focus on revitalizing the way government works could hope to accomplish in the swamp.

The two discuss Trump's new Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and how the effort can avoid the pitfalls of previous blue-ribbon commissions and other ineffective efforts to rein in the administrative state. And they walk through why optimizing government requires new investment, not just cutting red-tape.

For more, read Ruiz's recent piece on the subject at Statecraft: "How to Fix Defense Procurement."