The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie goes deep with the artists, activists, entrepreneurs, policymakers, and visionaries who are making the world more libertarian—or at least more interesting—by challenging worn-out ideas and orthodoxies.

Today's guest is Jeff Flake, former Arizona senator and U.S. ambassador to Turkey, and now head of the brand-new Institute of Politics at Arizona State University. Flake made national headlines in 2017 when he delivered a searing Senate floor speech announcing he would not seek reelection and declaring he would not be complicit in the "degradation of our politics" under Donald Trump and MAGA.

A lifelong conservative, Flake built his career on defending free markets, free trade, limited government, and pro-immigration policies—positions that put him at odds with a Republican Party drifting toward populism and protectionism. We talk about why he chose principle over power (and how he feels about that now), his time representing the U.S. in Turkey as Russia invaded Ukraine, his push for reforming America's broken political system, and why he believes the fever of grievance politics must—and eventually will—break.

Past appearances:

"Rep. Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) on Immigration, Cuba, and the Future of the Republican Party," July 2011

"Pork Party House: Where DC insiders go for taxpayer-subsidized fun," March 2010

0:00—Introduction

1:29—The state of the GOP under President Donald Trump

8:41—Did Flake's conservative principles irritate Trump?

12:14—The case for more immigration

21:27—The connection between immigration and trade

26:25—Globalism in the era of nationalism

34:26—Ambassador to Turkey

38:05—The importance of Ukraine's independence

40:51—The Trump foreign policy philosophy

44:02—Reacting to political violence

47:57—How to reform the political system

58:33—Arizona State Institute of Politics

• Producer: Paul Alexander
• Audio Mixer: Ian Keyser

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