In her book Left Is Not Woke today's guest Susan Neiman argues that the left has taken a wrong turn and must differentiate itself from "wokism".

She talks to Hugh about what she means by "woke" and why its appeal to traditional left-wing tendencies, like solidarity and supporting the underdog, helps disguise its more reactionary elements.

They also talk about Germany's relationship with Israel and how its own history influences German views on what is happening in Gaza.

Susan Neiman is an American moral philosopher, commentator and author known for her work on ethics, the Enlightenment and contemporary politics. She is the director of The Einstein Forum, a think-tank based in Potsdam, Germany, 

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