In this episode of Empire, Jason and Santi are joined by Sunny Aggarwal (Osmosis co-founder) and Derek Hsue (Reverie co-founder & "I Pledge Allegiance" co-host) to discuss the future of Osmosis, appchains and protocol governance. Show highlights include:

- Learnings from the CeFi fallout

- How protocols should re-think token incentives

- Thoughts on dYdX moving to Cosmos

- Why applications should launch their own chain

- One of the biggest shortfalls of rollups

- Osmosis as the interchain DEX

- Mars protocol on Osmosis

- Why Cosmos governance is so active

- Experimenting with a DAO's org structure

- Osmosis exploit and learnings

- The Osmosis roadmap

- What Sunny and Derek are looking forward to

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Follow Sunny: https://twitter.com/sunnya97

Follow Derek: https://twitter.com/derek_hsue

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Follow Santi: https://twitter.com/santiagoroel

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Referenced in the show:

"I Pledge Allegiance" podcast co-hosted by Derek

https://tinyurl.com/493vrmpp

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(00:00) Introduction

(00:50) Lessons Learned From CeFi Fallout

(03:04) Rethinking Capital Spend

(06:17) Osomosis Incentive Structure

(08:04) dYdX Moves to Cosmos

(10:27) The Downside of Rollups Today

(15:38) Why Projects Should Launch Their Own Appchain

(18:56) The Cosmos Hub and Shared Security

(22:09) Appchains Will Expand Their Scope

(26:38) Paraswap Ad

(27:48) Applications on Osmosis

(31:00) The Fat Application Thesis

(33:47) Active Governance in Cosmos

(37:54) Governance Is Not the Goal

(40:22) What Should DAOs Be Used For?

(42:41) DAO Org Structures

(47:30) Osmosis Exploit & Learnings

(50:35) The Osmosis Exploit & Learnings

(1:00:55)The Osmosis Vertical Integration Bet

(1:05:40) The Future of DeFi

(1:14:40) Web of Trust & zk Applications

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Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.