
Sign up to save your podcasts
Or


Ten years ago, Nikole Hannah-Jones wrote about choosing a struggling, segregated public school for her daughter as a matter of principle. This month she wrote the sequel, and it did not go the way she hoped.
Derrell Bradford read it at 6:30 on a Sunday morning and forwarded it to his mother with a text of his own: "Thank you for not doing this to me." Growing up in Southwest Baltimore, his family had debated whose address to borrow so he could escape the school he was zoned for.
Here's the part that stings. Hannah-Jones spent ten years looking for a great school for her daughter. Success Academy, Achievement First, Uncommon and KIPP were, as Derrell puts it, "a 30-second walk away from PS 307." Sixty-three thousand Black families in New York City have already made that walk. She didn't. Derrell thinks he knows why: she doesn't like the policy that built them.
Derrell, president of 50CAN, joins Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham. Derrell calls her a talented writer. The agreement ends there: whether the piece moves anything, why the charter movement stopped saying out loud what works, and whether the problem is courage, boredom, or plain politics.
Along the way: why Derrell says "she's catching hell from Black people because Black people care about their kids," the "Bad Bet" Democrats made on education, a New York Times list of 30 school fixes that left out charter schools entirely, Jed's data putting Indianapolis charters off the charts, the daughter as the Shakespearean jester who tells the truth, and the question nobody is asking: no one has questioned her right to make that choice, so why deny it to everyone else?
In this episode:
Show Notes & Resources:
Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)
Guest: Derrell Bradford (President, 50CAN)
Sponsor WonkyFolk: Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Sponsorship packages are available, including live WonkyFolk events. Reach out to Jed Wallace at [email protected] for more information.
Watch the full video on YouTube.
WonkyFolk is produced by CharterFolk.
The founder of Netflix says school is about to be unrecognizable. A former mayor is talking about reading scores. A teachers' union president is boycotting Target.
Reed Hastings, Rahm Emanuel, and Randi Weingarten — Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham take the three in turn.
Reed Hastings makes the technologist's case, and Andy, who moderated his conversation with Mike Goldstein, isn't buying the analogy that carries it: personalized learning is not personalized medicine. Jed has a study out of China where homework quality soared and measured learning fell behind classrooms using no AI at all.
Rahm Emanuel, meanwhile, is speaking common sense about schools at a moment when common sense sounds radical — and Andy thinks that lane is worth more than the endorsement everyone else is chasing.
And Randi Weingarten is boycotting Target, which Andy suspects has almost nothing to do with Target, while Jed thinks it will cost the sector something real.
In this episode:
Show Notes & Resources:
Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)
Sponsor WonkyFolk: Interested in sponsoring the podcast? Sponsorship packages are available, including live WonkyFolk events. Reach out to Jed Wallace at [email protected] for more information.
Watch the full video on YouTube.
WonkyFolk is produced by CharterFolk.
Pat Brantley — CEO of Friendship Public Schools and a 2026 inductee into the National Charter School Hall of Fame — joins Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham for a WonkyFolk conversation recorded live in front of an audience at Friendship's Armstrong campus in Washington, DC.
Pat traces her path from Newark to Princeton to Dr. Dorothy Height's civil rights work to Friendship House — and the moment the idea for a charter school was born. From there: what she says to charter critics, why she sees the public vs. public-charter divide as the sector's greatest failure, how she weighs growth against proficiency, the line-by-line math behind DC's charter budget shortfall, why hitting 50% market share makes charters "a target" rather than a protection, the case for "adopting" struggling schools, and — in a live audience Q&A — the role of Black male educators and what charter leaders owe their communities heading into the DC elections.
In this episode:
Show Notes & Resources:
Guest: Pat Brantley — CEO, Friendship Public Schools; Chair, DC Charter School Alliance; 2026 National Charter School Hall of Fame inductee
Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)
Watch the full video on YouTube.
WonkyFolk is produced by CharterFolk.
Jorge Elorza — former mayor of Providence, now CEO of Democrats for Education Reform (DFER) — joins Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham for a frank conversation about the federal scholarship tax credit, the Democratic Party’s education problem, and what a reset actually requires.
They dig into how the new federal tax credit program actually works (and why Jorge and Arne Duncan called it a “no-brainer”), why more than thirty U.S. senators from the Dem Party are now trying to sunset the entire thing, and what that fight reveals about a Democratic brand that’s gotten badly out of step with the voters it claims to represent. Along the way: Providence’s 2.4% math proficiency, Detroit’s 80% of fourth-graders below basic, Rahm Emanuel’s urgency, Mikey Sherrill’s budget address, fake charter laws and fake science of reading bills, and why Jorge thinks the ideological map of the future isn’t left-vs-right — it’s liberalism vs. illiberalism.
In this episode:
Show Notes & Resources:
Guest: Jorge Elorza — CEO, Democrats for Education Reform (DFER); former Mayor of Providence, RI
Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)
Watch the full video on YouTube.
AI in education — what's working, what's risky, and what charter schools should do next. Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham are joined by Bellwether's Mary Wells and Marisa Mission for a wide-ranging conversation.
They dig into how AI tools are actually being used day to day, why "human in the loop" means more than just a review step, and what cognitive science tells us about the real danger of students offloading hard thinking to technology. The conversation also covers the evolving role of teachers, the economic ripple effects of AI, and why the charter school mindset of curiosity and rigor matters more than ever.
In this episode:
Show Notes & Resources:
Guests: Mary Wells (Co-Founder, Bellwether) and Marisa Mission (Bellwether)
Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)
Watch the full video on YouTube.
WonkyFolk is produced by CharterFolk.
WonkyFolk: Lisa Keegan on Educational Opportunity, Accountability, and the Future of Reform
In this episode of WonkyFolk, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham sit down with longtime education leader and reform advocate Lisa Keegan for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about educational opportunity in America.
Drawing on decades of leadership experience—from state-level policymaking to national advocacy—Keegan reflects on where the education reform movement has made real progress, where it has stumbled, and what must come next.
The conversation explores:
This episode also highlights findings from the latest national survey on educational opportunity—offering a grounded look at what families actually want from schools today.
If you care about governance, public trust, and the long game of education reform, this is a must-listen.
📎 Show Notes & ResourcesIn this episode of WonkyFolk, Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace kick off the year with a deep and thoughtful conversation with Baxter Parker, longtime Denver-based education leader and policy thinker. Together, they explore how Denver’s school reform journey—often hailed as a national model—has evolved from being described as “historic” to something more complex, contextual, and nuanced.
Parker shares insights from recent studies on Denver’s portfolio strategy and its impact on student outcomes, and reflects on the shifting narratives, local politics, and policy lessons emerging from over two decades of reform.
📌 Topics include:
🎓 Whether you’re a reform skeptic or a die-hard believer, this conversation offers grounded, data-informed reflections on one of the most watched experiments in urban education.
👇 Show Notes and Resources:
Key Research Studies:
Related Articles and Essays:
# WonkyFolk: Year in Review - How Many Mulligans Does a Country Get?
How many mulligans does a country get before there are real consequences? In this year-end conversation, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham confront 2025's uncomfortable truths: neither party heard the message voters sent, ed reformers have gone soft on accountability, and we're spending another year arguing while kids fall further behind. They explore Virginia's accountability experiment, the problem with universal school choice that doesn't prioritize low-income students, and what made Rod Paige different—a leader with a "core of steel" anchored by clear beliefs. Plus: why Brandon Brown and Howard Fuller are calling for more courage in the charter movement, and whether public education can offer anything to compete with disruption.
**Episode Highlights:**
• Why 2025 was another year of missed opportunities
• The retreat from meaningful accountability—and why reformers are complicit
• Virginia's test: Will Spanberger build on Youngkin's reforms or tear them down?
• Universal school choice without income targeting: A problem?
• Revealed preferences: Leaders who oppose accountability but ensure their own kids get it
• Remembering Rod Paige and the power of vision and beliefs
• The courage question: Brandon Brown, Howard Fuller, and finding your moxie
**Show Notes:**
In this special episode of WonkyFolk, Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace sit down with education policy legend Dr. Mike Kirst—a man whose career spans six decades of shaping education in California and beyond.
From working in the Office of Management and Budget under the Great Society programs to chairing the California State Board of Education under two governors, Kirst shares an insider’s view of how education policy gets made—and remade. He walks us through his incredible journey from Harvard to Washington to Stanford, including his role in designing Title I, navigating political upheaval, and helping reinvent California’s education finance system.
You’ll hear:
This is a masterclass in education policy, history, and political resilience from someone who’s truly seen it all.
Show Notes:
Join Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham for an illuminating conversation with Margaret "Macke" Raymond, one of education's most influential researchers. As Director of CREDO (Center for Research on Education Outcomes) at Stanford University and Distinguished Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Macke has spent two decades producing the definitive studies on charter school performance that shape policy debates nationwide.
In this episode, Macke pulls back the curtain on how rigorous education research actually works, from the methodological challenges of measuring school effectiveness to the evolution of accountability systems across states. She discusses CREDO's groundbreaking longitudinal studies, the complexities of comparing charter and traditional public schools, and why context matters more than headlines suggest.
The conversation explores the intersection of research and policy-making, touching on California's "gnarly" accountability system with its 50+ indicators, the role of charter management organizations in scaling successful models, and the ongoing debates about how we measure educational success. Macke also shares insights from Stanford's "tectonics" project and reflects on how education research has evolved over her distinguished career.
This is essential listening for education policy professionals, researchers, advocates, and anyone who wants to understand the data behind the debates. Macke's expertise and the hosts' thoughtful questions create a substantive discussion that goes far beyond talking points to examine the real challenges and opportunities in American education.
Topics Covered:
•CREDO's methodology and longitudinal research approach
•Charter school performance measurement and accountability
•The evolution of education policy research
•State accountability systems and their effectiveness
•The role of research in shaping education policy
•Challenges in scaling successful educational models
Resources and Links:
CREDO and Macke Raymond's Work:
•CREDO Charter Schools Reports: https://credo.stanford.edu/research-reports/charter-studies/
•Macke's "Fun House Mirror" Hoover Summit Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeklNPBF9RE
•Previous WonkyFolk CREDO Episode with Macke: https://www.charterfolk.org/wonkyfolk-vol-5-special-credo-episode-with-macke-raymond/
Hoover Institution Resources:
•Hoover Institution K-12 Education Work: https://www.hoover.org/focus-areas/reforming-k-12-education
•Education Futures Council Report: https://www.hoover.org/press/education-futures-council-unveils-report-ours-solve-once-and-for-all
• Andy’s PMC fundraiser mentioned in the episode: https://profile.pmc.org/Andrew-Rotherham
Additional Reading:
•Tom Dee's Ed Week Article on Research and Practice: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-high-quality-research-rarely-informs-classroom-practice-why/2025/09
•Diane Ravitch's New Autobiography: https://amzn.to/3JfpRne
•Andy's "Craft versus Politics" Article: https://www.the74million.org/article/rotherham-phonics-whole-language-balanced-literacy-the-problem-isnt-that-we-dont-know-how-to-teach-reading-its-politics/
•"Buck Up!" on Eduwonk: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/buck-up
About Our Guest: Margaret "Macke" Raymond is Director of the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University and Distinguished Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution. Her research has shaped education policy debates for over two decades.
Key Discussion Points:
•How rigorous education research methodology works in practice
•The challenges of measuring school effectiveness across different contexts
•California's complex accountability system with 50+ indicators
•The role of charter management organizations in scaling success
•Why context matters more than headlines in education policy
•The intersection of academic research and policy implementation
•Stanford's "tectonics" project and innovation in education research
From the publisher's feed