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Dr. James Madden teaches philosophy at Benedictine College. He's written three books, including "Unidentified Flying Hyperobject: UFOs, Philosophy, and the End of the World." 

We discuss how to think carefully about UAP, the probabilities of their origins, the tension between caution and productive investigation, what it would take to prove UAP are nonhuman, and the possibilities of contact. 

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

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Jim's Papers: https://www.jdmadden.com/philosophy-course 

Jim's Substack: https://jdmadden.substack.com/ 

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Karin Austin leads both the Center for the Impossible at Rice University and the John Mack Institute.

In the 1990's, Karin worked with the late Harvard psychiatrist, John E. Mack, M.D., contributing her own experiences to his research into the abduction phenomenon, and eventually transitioning into the role of his personal assistant. 

After Dr. Mack's death in 2004, Karin was pivotal in helping Dr. Mack's family close his estate, an effort that eventually led to collaborating with Wilson Research Center's Head of Special Collections, Amanda Focke, and Rice University's Dr. Jeff Kripal, to transfer and digitize a major donation of Dr. Mack's phenomenon-related materials. 

The archives of the Center for the Impossible have grown to include collections from more than a dozen UFO researchers. Karin is leading the effort to digitize these materials, preserving them for future investigation and making them increasingly accessible for scientifically rigorous data analysis. 

The specific nature of this work makes up the bulk of our conversation. We also discuss Karin's views of the phenomenon and her perspective on how humanity should proceed as we steadily learn more about it. 

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Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

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Center for the Impossible Records Collection: https://archives.library.rice.edu/repositories/2/classifications/25?&page=1 

Archives of the Impossible Home: https://impossiblearchives.rice.edu/ 

John Mack Institute Home: http://johnemackinstitute.org/ 

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Dr. Stephen Bruehl cowrote two blockbuster papers on transient points of light in 1950s astronomy pictures. He explains to us why these findings are unlikely to be anything other than reflective physical objects in geosynchronous orbit. 

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Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

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Multiple Transients Paper: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1538-3873/ae0afe 

Nuclear Association Paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-025-21620-3 

Press Release: https://www.su.se/english/news/unexpected-patterns-in-historical-astronomical-observations-1.855042 

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Jim's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/QuirkZone 

Jim's Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4DxSG1jjl1gPnF6xYrU2Cz 

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

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Seth has a masters in psychology and works in fintech. He also podcasts about aliens with a cheerfully comedic bent. You can fond his show The Spiritual Skeptic here: https://thespiritualskeptic.buzzsprout.com/

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Brett's faculty page: https://mcgrath.nd.edu/about/faculty-staff/brett-robinson-ph-d/ 

Brett's Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA0ah6Xmqus 

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

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Moneypenny on X: https://x.com/nic_moneypenny 

Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

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Spacefare Shop: https://spacefare.etsy.com/ 

Music by John Hubbell: https://mathoftrees.bandcamp.com/album/math-of-trees 

Support WTUFO: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO 

Join WTUFO YouTube Membership: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY1dX8lyn1zQSLelJ_cU2TQ/join

Support the show

Support WTUFO: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO | Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WhatTheUFO |
Say hi: https://x.com/WTUFOshow

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Join WTUFO on YouTube:
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Support the show

Support WTUFO: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO | Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WhatTheUFO |
Say hi: https://x.com/WTUFOshow

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WTUFO Hearing Page: https://wtufo.com/government-uap-hearings/

Support the show

Support WTUFO: https://www.patreon.com/WTUFO | Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WhatTheUFO |
Say hi: https://x.com/WTUFOshow