Yoga Therapy Hour with Amy Wheeler

In this solo episode of The Yoga Therapy Hour, host Amy Wheeler, Ph.D., explores Pratyāhāra, the fifth limb of Patañjali’s eight-limbed path, and how Yoga Nidra can become a powerful therapeutic pathway for turning the senses inward.

Rather than presenting Yoga Nidra as a single technique, Amy explores the many ways it can be understood and applied. Some approaches emphasize embodiment and awareness of physical sensation, while others invite experiences of spaciousness, transcendence, or non-dual awareness. From a yoga therapy perspective, the central question is not which approach is “right,” but rather: What does the person in front of us need?

Amy shares the development of the Optimal State approach to therapeutic Yoga Nidra, created over several years in collaboration with colleagues Colleen Carroll and Lori Angris. Together, they explored how Yoga Nidra could be adapted specifically for yoga therapy through individualized assessment, shared intention-setting, and ongoing reflection.

In this episode, Amy explores:

• Pratyāhāra as the movement from external sensory engagement toward inner nourishment and awareness.
• Why Yoga Nidra is not one single practice or philosophical approach.
• The difference between more embodied, dualistic approaches and transcendent or non-dual approaches to Yoga Nidra.
• Why a person experiencing chronic pain may need a different practice than someone navigating grief, caregiving, or questions surrounding death and meaning.
• The importance of assessment and co-negotiation between the yoga therapist and client.
• Using the pañca maya model to explore the physical body, breath and energy, mind and emotions, inner wisdom and beliefs, and experiences of joy or spirituality.
• How interoceptive awareness can help a person notice not only discomfort, but also areas of ease, comfort, and spaciousness within the body.
• Amy’s personal experience using Yoga Nidra while working with significant knee pain and nervous-system overload.
• Why people who naturally tend toward transcendence may sometimes benefit from greater embodiment, while highly body-oriented individuals may benefit from exploring spaciousness and transcendence.
• The importance of returning from transcendent experiences to breath, sensation, orientation, and everyday life.
• How personalized imagery and bhāvana can be developed collaboratively with a client.
• Why therapeutic Yoga Nidra requires follow-up and adjustment rather than assuming one practice will work equally well for everyone.

The Optimal State Therapeutic Yoga Nidra Process

Amy introduces the general framework used in the Optimal State approach:

1. Begin with an intentional opening that marks the transition from daily life into practice.
2. Refine the state of the mind through breath, movement, chanting, or another appropriate yogic tool.
3. Establish a collaboratively developed intention based on the client’s assessment and goals.
4. Use an individualized body rotation or internal movement of awareness and prāṇa.
5. Introduce an appropriate object of meditation, visualization, mantra, imagery, or bhāvana.
6. Allow a period of deep rest, spaciousness, or transcendence depending upon the intention of the practice.
7. Gradually return awareness to the body, breath, surroundings, and daily life while carrying forward the qualities cultivated during the practice.

The practice can then be recorded for the client to use regularly, often for approximately one month, before reassessing and determining what is needed next.

A Central Question for Yoga Therapists

Throughout the episode, Amy returns to a foundational principle of yoga therapy: meet the person where they are.

Therapeutic Yoga Nidra does not require every person to move toward the same experience. One client may need to inhabit the body more fully and discover places of safety and ease. Another may need a temporary experience of spaciousness beyond pain, grief, diagnosis, or identity.

In either case, the underlying intention remains Pratyāhāra: reducing the constant pull of the external sensory world so that we can develop a deeper relationship with our internal experience.

The result can be a profound form of self-connection—an opportunity to become more intimate with our own body, breath, mind, emotions, and inner life.

Mentioned in This Episode

Amy developed this therapeutic Yoga Nidra approach with longtime colleagues Colleen Carroll and Lori Angress, drawing upon their different backgrounds and decades of experience with Yoga Nidra.

Amy also discusses Pratyāhāra in the book she co-authored with Marlisa Sullivan, Applying Therapeutic Yoga in Integrative Health.

About The Yoga Therapy Hour

The Yoga Therapy Hour explores the principles, practices, research, and clinical applications of yoga therapy. Hosted by Amy Wheeler, Ph.D., the podcast brings together traditional yogic wisdom, contemporary healthcare perspectives, and practical approaches for supporting well-being.

Whether you are a yoga therapist, yoga teacher, healthcare professional, student, or practitioner, this episode offers an invitation to reconsider Yoga Nidra not simply as relaxation, but as an individualized therapeutic practice and a pathway into Pratyāhāra.

In this episode of The Yoga Therapy Hour, Amy welcomes two guests whose work intersects at the heart of yoga therapy education: Leila Stuart and Kimberly Searl from the School of Integrative Health at Notre Dame of Maryland University.

The conversation centers on the integration of Experiential Anatomy into a graduate-level yoga therapy curriculum, and what it means to move beyond memorization of anatomy into direct, embodied understanding.

Rather than approaching anatomy as static knowledge, this dialogue explores anatomy as a lived, perceptual experience—something that can be sensed, refined, and integrated into clinical practice.

In This Conversation

Amy, Leila, and Kimberly reflect on how experiential anatomy supports the development of skilled, perceptive yoga therapists. They explore how students shift from learning about the body to learning through the body.

The discussion highlights the value of integrating subjective experience with objective anatomical knowledge. This approach allows future practitioners to better understand their clients, not just structurally, but relationally and perceptually.

There is also a thoughtful look at how anatomy education can support interoception, clinical reasoning, and therapeutic presence—skills that are essential in yoga therapy but often underdeveloped in traditional anatomy courses.

Key Themes

Embodied Learning in Anatomy

Anatomy becomes more meaningful when it is felt and explored internally, rather than only studied intellectually.

Bridging Science and Experience

The conversation clarifies how experiential anatomy complements traditional biomedical models without replacing them.

Clinical Application

Students trained in this way develop a more nuanced ability to observe, listen, and respond to the lived experience of their clients.

Education that Transforms Practice

The integration of this textbook into a master’s program offers a model for how yoga therapy education can evolve to meet the needs of modern healthcare environments.

Why This Matters

For yoga therapists and educators, this episode offers a clear direction: anatomy education can support deeper awareness, more refined clinical skills, and stronger therapeutic relationships.

For those training practitioners, it raises an important consideration—how we teach anatomy shapes how practitioners perceive and work with the human system.

About the Guests

Leila Stuart is the author of Experiential Anatomy, a text that invites readers into a direct, felt understanding of the body through guided inquiry and exploration. https://leilastuart.com

Kimberly Searl teaches anatomy within the Yoga Therapy Master’s program at Notre Dame of Maryland University, where she integrates experiential methods into graduate-level education. https://kimsearl.offeringtree.com

Closing Reflection

This episode invites a shift in perspective—from seeing anatomy as information to be mastered, toward experiencing it as a dynamic, living process. That shift has implications not only for education, but for the quality of care offered in yoga therapy settings.

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

Our Book is Coming August 10th 2026! "Application of Therapeutic Yoga in Integrative Health" by Wheeler & Sullivan

#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

What if much of what we’ve been taught about the breath in yoga is backwards? In this episode, Amy sits down with yoga therapist and author Robin Rothenberg for a frank, eye-opening conversation that challenges one of yoga’s most cherished cues: “take a big breath.”

After a respiratory crisis upended her own health, Robin discovered that the long, dramatic breaths she’d taught for years were making her symptoms worse, not better. The fix ran counter to everything she thought she knew about pranayama: breathe less, build CO2 tolerance, and let the body actually use the oxygen it already has.

Robin opens with a short guided practice, then she and Amy dig into the physiology of carbon dioxide, why “move more, breathe less” became her motto, how nasal breathing transformed her exercise and energy, and why the heart of classical pranayama was never the long exhale but the extension of kumbhaka (breath suspension). It’s a warm, candid, occasionally myth-busting conversation for anyone who teaches, practices, or simply breathes.

Key Takeaways

• Bigger isn’t better. Chronic sighing, yawning, mouth breathing, and “taking a big breath” are often signs of over-breathing and distress — not relaxation.
• CO2 is the catalyst, not the enemy. Carbon dioxide is what releases oxygen from the blood into your tissues. Low CO2 tolerance can drive fatigue, brain fog, achiness, and that “can’t-get-through-the-day” feeling — even when oxygen saturation reads 98–99%.
• Move more, breathe less. Movement and exercise generate CO2; light, nasal-only breathing keeps it in the system. Together they raise your CO2 tolerance and your real aerobic capacity.
• Keep your mouth closed. Unless you’re running from a lion or racing to win, there’s no reason to mouth-breathe during exercise. Let nasal breathing set your pace — you’ll get more out of less effort.
• Pranayama is about kumbhaka. The classical texts emphasize extending the breath suspension after the exhale, practiced several times a day — not the modern habit of simply lengthening the exhale.
• It’s a transformation, not a quick fix. Dialing the breath down can feel uncomfortable at first because you’re bumping against a subnormal CO2 ceiling. Titrate gradually, raise the ceiling toward normal, and expect it to take months — ideally with skilled support.
• This is bigger than yoga. Over-breathing is, in Robin’s view, epidemic in our stressed culture and relevant to chronic pain, anxiety, insomnia, and far more — a call for the whole yoga community to stop passing along breath misinformation.

About the Guest

Robin Rothenberg, C-IAYT, is a yoga therapist, educator, and author who has spent decades studying the breath. A past president and board member of the International Association of Yoga Therapists (IAYT), she trained in the Buteyko method and has worked to bring functional breathing science into the yoga world. She is the founder of Essential Yoga Therapy and creator of the Restore Your Prana (RYP) training program for yoga teachers and yoga therapists, which offers both personal and professional tracks.

Books & Resources

• Restoring Prana — Robin’s comprehensive book on functional breathing for yoga professionals.
• The Svadhyaya Breath Journal — the companion guided-practice journal designed to hold you accountable to the work (Amy contributed the foreword).
• 10-hour online course — an IAYT/YACEP-accredited “weekend workshop” format blending education and experiential practice; a good place to start.
• Restore Your Prana (RYP) — in-depth training program with personal and professional tracks, plus mentorship support.
• Recommended reading: James Nestor’s Breath — especially the chapter on his three-week mouth-breathing experiment.

Connect with Robin

Website: EssentialYogaTherapy.com

Instagram: @essential.yoga.therapy

Are prāṇāyāma and modern breathwork the same thing, or do they represent fundamentally different approaches to working with the breath?

In this episode of The Yoga Therapy Hour, Amy Wheeler explores one of the most common questions arising in yoga therapy, wellness, and healthcare today. While both prāṇāyāma and modern breathwork involve conscious breathing practices that can influence stress, mood, attention, and overall well-being, their origins, purposes, and underlying frameworks are quite different.

Drawing from the Yoga Sūtras of Patañjali, the classical Haṭha Yoga texts, and contemporary scientific research, Amy examines how ancient yogic teachings understood the relationship between breath, prāṇa, and consciousness—and how those teachings compare with modern approaches that focus on nervous system regulation, respiratory physiology, emotional health, and performance.

Whether you are a yoga therapist, healthcare professional, yoga teacher, or curious practitioner, this episode offers a deeper understanding of how traditional wisdom and modern science can inform our work with the breath.

In This Episode, We Explore:

• The Sanskrit meaning of prāṇa and āyāma
• Why prāṇāyāma is more than a breathing technique
• The distinction between breath and prāṇa in classical yoga
• Prāṇāyāma's place within Patañjali's Eight Limbs of Yoga
• Key teachings from the Yoga Sūtras on breath regulation, concentration, and meditation
• How Haṭha Yoga expanded prāṇāyāma through nāḍīs, chakras, kuṇḍalinī, bandhas, and mudrās
• The central role of kumbhaka (breath retention) in traditional practice
• Classical prāṇāyāma techniques including Nāḍī Śodhana, Ujjāyī, Bhastrikā, Śītalī, Sūrya Bhedana, and Bhrāmarī
• The presentation of prāṇāyāma in the Haṭha Yoga Pradīpikā, Śiva Saṃhitā, and Gheraṇḍa Saṃhitā
• Modern breathwork approaches such as diaphragmatic breathing, coherent breathing, box breathing, the Wim Hof Method, and resonance breathing.
• Scientific perspectives on breathing, including autonomic nervous system regulation, heart rate variability, carbon dioxide tolerance, respiratory physiology, and emotional regulation
• How yoga therapists can integrate traditional teachings and contemporary evidence when working with clients

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

In this episode of The Yoga Therapy Hour, Amy Wheeler welcomes yoga therapist, meditation teacher, and breathwork facilitator Laurie Angress for a thoughtful conversation about conscious connected breathwork and its potential to serve as a portal into deeper self-awareness, healing, and connection.

Laurie shares her personal journey into breathwork, including how curiosity led her to explore a practice that initially felt unfamiliar, despite decades of experience in yoga, meditation, and yoga therapy. What she discovered was a powerful yet accessible approach that helped her access emotional release, profound stillness, and deeper layers of inner knowing.

Together, Amy and Laurie explore:

• What it means to think of breath as a "portal"
• The relationship between breath, presence, and self-discovery
• How conscious connected breathwork differs from traditional prāṇāyāma practices
• The role of curiosity, beginner's mind, and willingness in transformational practices
• Laurie’s experience training with Seven Directions Breathwork
• Why trauma-sensitive facilitation and nervous system awareness are essential in breathwork settings
• The importance of agency, choice, and pacing during intense inner experiences
• Emotional release, embodiment, and the wisdom that can emerge through breath
• Music as a supportive element in the breathwork journey
• The distinction between ethical breathwork facilitation and cathartic group experiences
• How breathwork may support the integration of plant medicine experiences
• The intersection of breathwork, meditation, Yoga Nidra, and contemplative practice
• Presence as the ultimate goal—not fixing, changing, or seeking a particular outcome

Laurie also shares a deeply personal story about a breathwork session that occurred just hours before the passing of her aunt. The experience became a powerful reflection on love, grief, support, and the mystery of human connection.

Throughout the conversation, Amy and Laurie emphasize that conscious connected breathwork is not about chasing extraordinary experiences. Rather, it is about creating a safe and intentional space where individuals can meet themselves more fully, cultivate presence, and reconnect with what matters most.

Whether you are a yoga therapist, meditation practitioner, healthcare provider, or simply someone curious about the healing potential of breath, this episode offers a grounded and compassionate exploration of how breath can become a bridge between the seen and unseen, the conscious and unconscious, and the ordinary and sacred dimensions of life.

About Laurie Angress

Laurie Angress is a Certified Yoga Therapist, meditation teacher, Yoga Nidra facilitator, and Conscious Connected Breathwork Facilitator. Her work integrates nervous system awareness, mindfulness, embodiment practices, and breathwork to support healing, self-discovery, and connection. Laurie is passionate about creating trauma-sensitive spaces that honor the unique experience of each individual while inviting greater presence, compassion, and inner wisdom.

www.MindfulYogaTherapy.net

@illuminated_breath on IG

Key Takeaway

"The breath is always available to us. Sometimes it helps us relax. Sometimes it helps us release. Sometimes it helps us remember who we are."

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Our Book is Coming Summer 2026! "Application of Therapeutic Yoga in Integrative Health" by Wheeler & Sullivan

Optimal State Mobile App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

In this solo episode, Amy Wheeler explores a fascinating question: What happens when we look beneath the physical practice of yoga and return to its deeper purpose? Beginning with the history of āsana, Amy traces how yoga postures evolved from simple meditation seats into the diverse practices we know today. Along the way, she examines the Tantric influence of the Śiva Saṃhitā, the rise of embodied awareness in modern somatic practices, and the importance of lived experience as a pathway to understanding ourselves more deeply. The episode invites listeners to consider how yoga therapy can serve as a bridge between ancient wisdom and contemporary understandings of human experience, healing, and transformation.

In this episode, Amy discusses:

• The Sanskrit root of āsana and its original meaning as a seat or stable posture for meditation

• The role of āsana in the Yoga Sūtras and why Patañjali devoted only a few verses to posture

• The evolution of āsana through the Haṭha Yoga tradition, including the Haṭha Yoga Pradīpikā, Gheraṇḍa Saṃhitā, and Śiva Saṃhitā

• Why the Śiva Saṃhitā is considered one of the most Tantric of the major Haṭha Yoga texts

• The concepts of prāṇa, nāḍīs, chakras, and kuṇḍalinī as experiential maps of human transformation

• How modern somatic approaches emphasize interoception, self-awareness, and embodied regulation

• The importance of first-hand lived experience in understanding consciousness and healing

• The connection between lived experience, yoga therapy, and the study of consciousness

• How Indigenous ways of knowing value observation, participation, relationship, and direct experience

• Why lived experience may be one of the most important meeting points between yoga, science, and healing

Closing Thoughts

One of the enduring gifts of yoga is its invitation to investigate experience directly. Whether we approach that inquiry through Classical Yoga, Tantra, somatic practice, lived experience, or Indigenous wisdom traditions, each reminds us that transformation begins with attention. The path of yoga therapy is not simply about changing symptoms or improving function. It is also about learning to observe, inhabit, and understand our lived experience more fully. In doing so, we may discover that the body, breath, mind, and spirit have been teaching us all along.

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

Episode Summary

In this episode of The Yoga Therapy Hour, Amy sits down with Danielle Burke, a certified yoga therapist and licensed professional counselor, to explore what happens when traditional talk therapy meets embodied practice.

Danielle shares her journey from mental health counseling into integrative wellness, where she now blends yoga therapy, somatic awareness, and lived experience to support clients in reconnecting with themselves. Together, they explore what it means to feel “stuck in your story,” how breath and body awareness interrupt that pattern, and why self-awareness is not just insight—but a skill that must be practiced.

This conversation offers a steady and honest look at anxiety, burnout, overgiving, and the quiet work of learning to trust yourself again. Through the lens of the yamas and niyamas, Danielle brings forward a practical framework for navigating uncertainty, building inner stability, and reducing unnecessary suffering.

Key Themes Explored

1. When Talk Therapy Isn’t Enough

Danielle reflects on her work as a licensed counselor and the moment she recognized something was missing—clients could process their experiences cognitively, but often remained disconnected from their bodies. Yoga therapy offered a way to integrate both.

2. The Body as the Entry Point

Clients often arrive stuck in patterns of thinking, or unable to access their thoughts at all due to overwhelm. Danielle highlights a simple but profound observation: many people stop breathing when recounting difficult experiences. Reconnecting to breath becomes the doorway back to regulation and presence. 

3. Self-Awareness as a Practice, Not a Trait

Awareness is not assumed—it is cultivated. Through consistent practice, clients begin to recognize their internal states, expand their capacity for choice, and shift from automatic reaction toward intentional response.

4. Working with Anxiety Without Trying to Eliminate It

Rather than attempting to “fix” anxiety, Danielle reframes the work:

• Can you recognize it?
• Can you stay with it?
• Can you also notice what else is present?

This introduces the possibility of holding multiple truths at once, rather than being defined by a single state.

5. The Yamas and Niyamas as a Regulatory Framework

Ethical principles such as ahiṃsā (non-harming/kindness) and svādhyāya (self-study) become practical tools for daily living. They support clients in discerning how they want to show up—for themselves and in relationship with others.

6. Caregivers, Overachievers, and the Cost of Self-Abandonment

Danielle’s primary clients are often women who have spent years supporting others while losing connection to their own needs. The work becomes one of reclaiming worth, voice, and internal alignment.

7. Letting Go of Control (Īśvara Praṇidhāna in Practice)

Through simple, real-life moments—like dogs barking during a podcast—Danielle illustrates how acceptance reduces suffering. The shift is subtle but powerful:

From “this shouldn’t be happening” → to “this is happening, and I can still be here.”

8. Change Requires Doing Something Different

Insight alone is not enough. Sustainable change comes through practice, patience, and a willingness to step outside familiar patterns—even when those patterns are uncomfortable.

What a Session with Danielle Looks Like

Sessions are adaptive and client-centered, typically including:

• Reflective conversation and active listening
• Gentle inquiry and pattern recognition
• Breath awareness and regulation practices
• Movement or physical practice (when appropriate)
• Yoga Nidra or guided meditation
• Personalized tools such as journaling prompts or recorded practices

The process remains grounded in yoga philosophy while accessible to clients regardless of their familiarity with yoga.

Notable Reflections

• “Awareness gives us choice. And choice gives us power.” 
• “The only way to change is to do something different.” 
• “We can hold more than one experience at the same time.” 

About Danielle Burke

Danielle Burke is a certified yoga therapist and licensed professional counselor with over a decade of experience in mental health. She now works through an integrative wellness model, combining yoga therapy, somatic practices, and psychological insight to support clients in reconnecting with their bodies, their values, and their sense of self.

Based in interior Alaska, Danielle works with clients both in person and online.

Connect with Danielle Burke

• Website: www.inlightandlovewellness.com
• Instagram: @inlightandloveyt
• LinkedIn: Danielle Burke

Closing Reflection

This conversation invites a steady reconsideration of how we relate to ourselves. Not through force or perfection, but through awareness, practice, and a willingness to meet what is here—one moment at a time.

In this solo episode, Amy Wheeler explores the second yama, satyam (truthfulness), and its essential relationship to the first yama, ahiṃsā (non-harming). This conversation moves beyond simple definitions and into the lived complexity of speaking truth in real relationships, real bodies, and real moments.

Drawing from personal reflection—including her own experience with illness and voice—Amy invites listeners into an honest inquiry:

When do we speak too much, not enough, or avoid the truth altogether?

In This Episode

Satyam as Inner Coherence

Satyam is not simply “telling the truth.” It is the alignment between:

• Perception
• Understanding
• Expression

When these are out of sync, confusion and disconnection follow. When they align, communication becomes clear, steady, and trustworthy. 

Amy emphasizes that most misalignment comes from incomplete information (avidyā) and unexamined assumptions. As clarity improves, so does our ability to speak in a way that others can receive and trust.

Ahiṃsā as the Container

Ahiṃsā is not just the absence of harm. It is the active cultivation of:

• Safety
• Care
• Stability in relationship

Satyam lives inside ahiṃsā. Truth must be expressed in a way that reduces harm and supports connection.

This creates an ongoing inquiry:

• What am I saying that may cause harm?
• What am I avoiding that also creates harm?

Avoidance and harshness are two sides of the same imbalance.

The Role of Relationship

The yamas are relational practices. They are not abstract ideals.

Amy highlights that we refine truth through feedback:

• Honest, grounded relationships help us see clearly
• Misaligned or dishonest environments distort our perception

Over time, trustworthy relationships support the emergence of a deeper, more stable truth.

Ṛtam: The Deeper Truth

The episode introduces ṛtam (cosmic order) as the underlying intelligence of reality.

• Ṛtam → what is (the larger truth)
• Satyam → how we align with and express that truth

Amy describes this as learning to release control and personal agenda, allowing timing, context, and perspective to mature. Truth is not only about correctness—it is about alignment with something larger than the individual viewpoint. 

A Nervous System Lens

Truth is not just cognitive—it is physiological and relational.

• In sympathetic activation → truth can become sharp and reactive
• In withdrawal → truth can become suppressed or avoided
• In regulation → truth becomes attuned and constructive

Interoceptive awareness becomes a guide:

• Changes in breath, tension, or sensation signal misalignment
• The body often recognizes incoherence before the mind does

Clinical and Practical Application

In therapeutic settings, satyam is not blunt disclosure.

Instead, it includes:

• Regulated presence
• Attuned listening
• Reflective language

Often, simply reflecting a client’s words allows truth to emerge without force. Truth becomes something discovered, not imposed.

Key Reflection Questions

Amy offers a simple but powerful framework:

• Is it true? (satyam)
• Is it kind? (ahiṃsā)
• Is it the right time, context, and relationship? (ṛtam)

This triad supports more skillful communication and reduces unnecessary harm.

Closing Insight

Truthfulness is not a fixed achievement. It is a lifelong refinement.

It asks for:

• Self-awareness
• Courage
• Regulation
• Willingness to be wrong
• Trust in something larger than personal perspective

As Amy reminds us, this work unfolds over time, through relationships, and through the willingness to see ourselves clearly.

Sanskrit Words of the Episode

• Ahiṃsā – Non-harming; active care in relationship
• Satyam – Truthfulness; inner and outer coherence
• Ṛtam – Cosmic order; the deeper truth beyond personal perspective
• Avidyā – Misperception; incomplete or incorrect understanding

Support the Podcast

• Join the Patreon community
• Explore the Optimal State Mobile App (iPhone & Android)
• Pre-order Applications of Therapeutic Yoga in Integrative Health by Amy Wheeler & Marlisa Sullivan

https://www.amazon.com/Applying-Therapeutic-Yoga-Integrative-Health/dp/1032888628/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RFZ3L5MCCNPH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.I7harQDOLulfRbd3dx2vVa5VUZa840PHcWB7dDiT3_bB2nravzO7_9Xs9shMhcy2Iwu0wtTA1PxeUG4TTugEQJuK_OEpvzQ-OyVvtsUkXsc.ViqLrL-EQPX7s09wZF6_2eCpLCimHa7Ohfbw-F7Yuk4&dib_tag=se&keywords=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheeler&qid=1775224796&sprefix=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheele%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1

Episode Overview

In this thoughtful and grounded conversation, Amy Wheeler sits down with Marlysa Sullivan, a physical therapist, yoga therapist, and educator working within the Veterans Administration and at Notre Dame of Maryland University. Together, they explore the Niyamas from The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali as living practices—less about rigid rules and more about ongoing self-inquiry, ethical reflection, and alignment in daily life.

Rather than presenting the Niyamas as fixed ideals, this episode invites a more nuanced approach: one that considers context, relationship, and the evolving nature of what it means to act with integrity. The conversation weaves together classical yoga philosophy, modern clinical experience, and real-world application, offering a grounded pathway for both practitioners and clinicians.

Key Themes Explored

Ethics as a Living Inquiry

Ethical practice is not static. Marlysa emphasizes that what is “right” depends on context, relationship, and discernment. This requires ongoing reflection:

What is most relevant, kind, and supportive in this moment?

Śauca (Clarity and Inner Cleanliness)

The discussion reframes purity away from moral judgment and toward clarity. Rather than “fixing what is wrong,” the practice becomes one of noticing what clouds perception—habit patterns, past impressions, and emotional residue—and gently clearing space for more skillful action. 

Santoṣa (Contentment as Stability and Action)

Contentment is explored as a steady inner ground, not passivity. True contentment allows for both acceptance and meaningful action. The conversation highlights the balance between deficiency (chronic dissatisfaction) and excess (avoidance or spiritual bypassing).

Tapas (Right Effort and Friction for Growth)

Tapas is described as the willingness to meet discomfort in service of transformation. It is the moment where inner clarity meets outward action—often requiring courage to move beyond familiar patterns.

Svādhyāya (Self-Study and Honest Reflection)

The practice of self-study calls for humility and relational support. Amy and Marlysa emphasize the importance of trusted relationships that can reflect blind spots and support deeper self-awareness.

Īśvara Praṇidhāna (Surrender and Letting Go of Outcome)

Surrender is presented as an essential counterbalance to effort. One does the work with integrity, then releases attachment to results. This is especially relevant in complex systems, where control is limited and trust becomes necessary.

Integrating Kriyā Yoga

The final three Niyamas—Tapas, Svādhyāya, and Īśvara Praṇidhāna—are explored as Kriya Yoga, a practical pathway for transformation.

Together, they form a cycle:

• Act with intention
• Reflect with honesty
• Surrender the outcome

This dynamic process supports both personal growth and therapeutic presence.

Clinical and Real-World Application

Drawing from her work in the Veterans Administration, Marlysa highlights how these teachings translate into practice:

• Healing is not one-size-fits-all; each individual responds differently
• Curiosity supports humility and clinical effectiveness
• Relationship and co-reflection are essential for growth
• Yoga therapy must move beyond biomechanics to include meaning, perception, and lived experience

The conversation reinforces that how we approach a simple movement—like stretching a hamstring—often reflects how we approach life itself.

Practical Reflection

For those beginning to work with the Niyamas:

• Start with the one that feels most relevant or meaningful
• Reflect on where you tend toward excess or deficiency
• Use curiosity as a guide rather than judgment
• Engage trusted others in your process of reflection

Closing Insight

This episode reframes ethics not as obligation, but as an enlivening and relational practice. When approached with curiosity and sincerity, the Niyamas become a guide for living with clarity, integrity, and connection—to oneself and to others.

Learn More

• Visit Marlysa Sullivan: www.marlysasullivan.com
• Explore the foundations in The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

Our new book-

https://www.amazon.com/Applying-Therapeutic-Yoga-Integrative-Health/dp/1032888628/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RFZ3L5MCCNPH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.I7harQDOLulfRbd3dx2vVa5VUZa840PHcWB7dDiT3_bB2nravzO7_9Xs9shMhcy2Iwu0wtTA1PxeUG4TTugEQJuK_OEpvzQ-OyVvtsUkXsc.ViqLrL-EQPX7s09wZF6_2eCpLCimHa7Ohfbw-F7Yuk4&dib_tag=se&keywords=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheeler&qid=1775224796&sprefix=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheele%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1

In this episode, Amy sits down with Posture Ellie, a posture specialist based in the Peak District of England, whose work bridges movement, awareness, and human transformation.

Ellie shares her personal journey from corporate burnout and disconnection to discovering yoga as a turning point—one that ultimately led her to specialize in posture as a powerful, accessible entry point into healing.

Together, they explore a central reframe: posture is not about “standing up straight.” It is about how the body moves, adapts, and expresses lived experience.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode

Posture as a Living System

Ellie challenges the common idea of posture as rigid alignment. Instead, she describes posture as fluid, responsive movement—an expression of how well the body functions as an integrated whole.

From Symptoms to Root Cause

Rather than chasing tension or pain, posture work invites us to restore movement where it has been lost. This shift moves the work from symptom relief toward deeper resolution.

Interoception as a Learned Language

Amy and Ellie discuss how body awareness is not immediate—it develops over time. Many people begin disconnected from sensation and gradually learn to “read” their body through consistent practice.

The Missing Middle of Movement

Modern life often swings between stillness (desk, car, couch) and intensity (gym, running). Ellie highlights the importance of restoring gentle, everyday movement—the “middle ground” our bodies are designed for.

Patterns of Stress in the Body

The conversation explores two common expressions of stress:

• Over-efforting / rigidity (often high-achieving, driven individuals)
• Collapse / withdrawal (protective, energy-conserving patterns)

Both influence breathing, posture, and nervous system regulation in distinct ways.

Breath, Posture, and the Nervous System

Postural patterns directly affect breathing mechanics. Restricted diaphragmatic breathing can reinforce stress responses, while restoring breath capacity can support regulation.

From Numbness to Feeling

A powerful theme in this episode is the movement from disconnection to awareness. Many people initially feel “nothing,” only to later recognize long-held tension and emotion as awareness grows.

Posture as a Gateway to Self-Relationship

Over time, posture work becomes more than physical. It becomes a way of listening, responding, and relating to oneself with greater clarity and care.

Key Insight

Posture is not something you hold.

It is something that emerges when the body is supported, responsive, and free to move.

About the Guest

Posture Ellie is a posture specialist and educator helping people reduce pain, improve movement, and reconnect with their bodies. Her work draws from yoga, the Egoscue Method, and a deep understanding of how modern lifestyles shape the human body.

She is the author of Posture Power, a practical and empowering guide to understanding and improving posture.

• Website: www.posture-ellie.com
• Instagram: @postureellie
• Book: Posture Power → https://watkinspublishinglinks.com/posture-power

Contact Amy Wheeler:

www.TheOptimalState.com

Optimal State App for iPhone:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/optimal-state/id1604424804

The Yoga Therapy Hour Podcast:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/yoga-therapy-hour-with-amy-wheeler/id1564687158

School of Integrative Health at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health

Master of Science in Yoga Therapy at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy

Explore NDMU’s Post-Master’s Certificate in Therapeutic Yoga Practices, designed specifically for licensed healthcare professionals:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/yoga-therapy/post-masters-certificate-in-therapeutic-yoga-practices

Try our Post-Bac Ayurveda Certification Program at NDMU:

https://www.ndm.edu/academics/integrative-health/ayurveda/post-baccalaureate-ayurveda-certification

#IntegrativeHealth #HealthcareEducation #InterprofessionalEducation #GraduateSchool #NDMUproud #SOIHproud #SOIHYoga #SOIHAyurveda #NDMUYoga #NDMUAyurveda #SOIHGraduateSchool

Our new book-

https://www.amazon.com/Applying-Therapeutic-Yoga-Integrative-Health/dp/1032888628/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1RFZ3L5MCCNPH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.I7harQDOLulfRbd3dx2vVa5VUZa840PHcWB7dDiT3_bB2nravzO7_9Xs9shMhcy2Iwu0wtTA1PxeUG4TTugEQJuK_OEpvzQ-OyVvtsUkXsc.ViqLrL-EQPX7s09wZF6_2eCpLCimHa7Ohfbw-F7Yuk4&dib_tag=se&keywords=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheeler&qid=1775224796&sprefix=applications+in+therapeutic+yoga+wheele%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1