In Part 2 of this 2 part conversation, we dive deeper into Gaza after Israel’s 2005 “withdrawal”, examine the blockade, restrictions, and the motives of a “starvation policy.” We also explore Israel’s close relationship with apartheid South Africa, and disagree on what these alliances reveal about the motives behind Zionism and occupation. The conversation turns toward justice vs peace in practice, and the moral weight of denying dignity. Stay tuned after the debate for my “Afterthoughts,” where I break down Coleman’s argumentation and share further reflections on justice, intention, and the future of Palestine.00:00 Intro Before Thoughts00:43 When Israel "Left" Gaza in 200507:14 Why is Egypt Different than Gaza and Western Interests19:09 What is Preventing Democracy?22:09 Israel and Apartheid South Africa doesn't Matter?26:00 Unplugging Cultural Touchpoints in Palestine by Zionists33:08 Deciphering Motivations of Zionism37:58 Understanding the Villain and Palestinian Resistance51:29 The Essentialism Charge and Nefarious Zionist Motivations1:01:06 Starvation and Motivations of Ethnic Cleansing1:10:38 Stated Israeli War Aims and the Zionist Territorial Aims1:17:42 After Thought 1 - Justice vs Peace and Material Gains1:19:11 After Thought 2 - "What they Didn't Do" as an Argument1:21:57 After Thought 3 - This Could All Make Sense, And Hamas Accepts a Ceasefire1:23:10 After Thought 4 - South Africa Apartheid and Israel Ties1:26:18 After Thought 5 - Who Will Live in Gaza?1:31:41 After Thought 6 - On Starvation Media Coverage and Losing Humanity1:36:14 After Thought 7 - Read More1:38:35 After Thought 8 - If You are Mad at Jews... Voices Against the OccupationWatch "Courage in the Divide" from 1986 https://youtu.be/-2UucKQuVK8?si=5-3xNqaQEVAoXxqz Breakdown of the methodology of the Penn State Poll we discussed https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/poll-show-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans For more from Jay visit whatjaythinks.com