In this episode, Sam starts some friendly arguments with Jonathan Tobin. They revisit the question whether lawyers should learn to develop their own software, try to agree on whether the legal industry is really capable of meaningful disruption, wonder whether lawyers can really innovate, and forecast the future of law practice.

Jonathan Tobin provides legal advice to creative businesses and professionals using a subscription-based payment plan that has been popular with his clients, as well as through a traditional fee model. He started his firm, Counsel for Creators, in Los Angeles shortly after graduating from UCLA law school. Before he became a lawyer, Jon spent years as a software developer and designer.