“Innovation” is a beer-world buzzword, as more and more drinkers seek out new breweries, beers, experiences, and flavors. But for Southern California brewing stalwart Jeff Bagby of Bagby Beer, that constant focus on the new is more dangerous than his traditional approach.

“I’m more scared of… making beers that are flash-in-the-pan styles,” Bagby says. “These things can leave just as fast as they came, and if you don’t have something to fall back on—you can’t make a core beer, you can’t make something that someone wants to come into your place and have three glasses of—what are you going to do? There are only so many flashy new toys that you’re going to be able to come up with.”

Bagby's long and award-filled journey took him from Stone to Pizza Port to Oggi's before he launched his own brewery. After two decades of brewing professionally he took the plunge, launching his eponymous brewpub in 2014 in Oceanside. In this episode, Bagby recounts lessons learned during that storied career—engaging in the brewing feedback loop, the importance of experience on brewing expression, learning the ins and outs of the brewhouse, evaluating inspirational beers, and more. Along the way, he discusses everything from brewing Czech-style dark lager, to pilsner, to the beers he’s most well-known for—West coast IPAs.

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