The conversation about hazy, New England-style IPAs invariably includes Portland, Maine’s Bissell Brothers Brewery. From the early days of the nascent style, they embraced the possibility of expressive yeast, and helped cement the style’s place in the canon of modern craft beer. But unlike other contemporaries, they’ve shied away from the model of brewing a nonstop stream of new releases, and have taken a more traditional approach to brewing—constant, nonstop iteration and improvement of the selection of brands they brew.

Cofounder Noah Bissell explains the strategy in a sensible way, with the perpetual dissatisfaction of a committed creator. Why create new beers, when you’re not entirely happy with the ones you make already? Dialing in beers is an ongoing, never-ending process, and the best way to improve those beers is to go all-in.

"I don’t think you could ever even hope to reach that hypothetical nirvana zone for any given idea in beer form, if you don’t really, really commit to it," says Bissell.

In this episode, Bissell discusses the brewery’s dogged focus on improvement: managing for shifting palates, focusing deeply on the bitterness component in soft and hazy beers, dialing in carbonation to heighten the experience, adjusting whirpool parameters, using new advanced hop aroma products, and more. Along the way, he also tackles subjects including cryo vs. traditional pellet, their methodical approach to hops blending, how they select hops for the platonic ideal, and favorite new hops like Sultana.

Bissell built their hazy house IPA, Substance, from a blend that doesn’t include Citra—a bold choice in today’s beer world. But for the brewery, it was both a response to the reality of the hops world when they started, and a solid focus on outlasting short-term beer trends, where “sweet” as a descriptor offers less longevity.

This episode is brought to you by:

Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Old Orchard supplies craft juice blends from the heart of Beer City USA. As the industry blending experts, they supply major national brands and growing breweries alike. They've been the best-kept juicy secret in craft beverage for years, but now the secret's out. Breweries across the board are experiencing a seamless transition to Old Orchard as their new juice supplier. So hop aboard the Old Orchard fruit train; their sample kit starter pack is waiting for you at www.oldorchard.com/brewer.

Hopsteiner (https://www.hopsteiner.com): This episode is brought to you by Hopsteiner–your premium hop supplier dedicated to delivering quality hops and hop products in every package. Visit Hopsteiner.com for a complete list of offerings or select “shop hops” to start ordering today.

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