February 26, 2021

141. Where CX and Behavioral Science Meet, interview with Jennifer Clinehens, author of Choice Hacking

42 minutes

Today I am so excited to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London, where she uses behavioral science and psychology to improve the customer experience for brands like Lloyds Banking Group and Compare the Market. Jennifer has helped mold experiences with behavioral science for brands like McDonald's, AT&T, O2, and Adidas across the globe.

She is also the author of four books including the one we will be discussing today, Choice Hacking: How to use psychology and behavioral science to create an experience that sings, AND she has two different podcasts, Choice Hacking and Everybody Hates Your Brand. Wow, talk about a busy and productive person, amirite?

I hope you love everything recommended via The Brainy Business! Everything was independently reviewed and selected by me, Melina Palmer. So you know, as an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. That means if you decide to shop from the links on this page (via Amazon or others), The Brainy Business may collect a share of sales or other compensation. Show Notes:

[00:40] Today I am so excited to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London.
[03:05] Jennifer shares her background and how she got involved in behavioral science. She has been lucky to work for many companies across many countries.
[04:35] A lot of the work she has been doing lately has been about the intersection between behavioral science and psychology. She takes those principles and applies them to experience design.
[06:48] One of the big things Jennifer does is framing touchpoints.
[09:39] Crossing over from one medium to another is a difficult point where we often lose some potential customers. There are a lot of steps that happen in the customer journey process.
[10:28] Generally, when you design a customer journey you use a customer journey map: a visual representation of what the customer journey is.
[10:45] On a map the customer journey is linear, but in real life it is messy. Yes, we have a beautiful picture of what the customer journey should be, but in the back of your mind, you have to be pragmatic.
[11:49] The closer we can get to design touchpoints and customer communications with a scientific approach or foundation to apply it to the real world the better it is.
[13:08] The number one thing brands seem to get wrong (or miss completely) is peak-end and applying it across the customer journey. The emotional journey is the secret sauce.
[14:17] A lot of brands get their ending wrong. They don’t know where the real ending is.
[15:41] Brands, in general, don’t realize that the last mile (the true ending) is so critical in so many ways.
[16:17] Jennifer shares an example of Disney realizing the customer journey didn’t end when you left their park.
[17:19] Making the very end of your experience even better and more exciting means your memory of the time you spent in Disneyland is even better. It is how you are constructing the memory, it is not about every single moment you had. It is that emotional peak and true ending that matter.
[17:57] “A brand is a memory.” Peter Steidl (from one of Melina’s “go-to” brainy books, Neurobranding, linked below)
[20:33] There are a few different ways you can look for that true end in your business.
[21:44] Part of the issue of finding that true ending also has to do with silos.
[23:56] The brands that measure on a journey-level versus a touchpoint level have much more value at the end of the day.
[25:32] Melina shares how an online mattress company handles its customer journey.
[27:16] It is important to think through all the moments in the experience: where there could be problems and frustrations and turning it into a really great shareable moment/story. Then you have different associations with that brand.
[28:30] Going that little bit extra and saying “Is that really the end of the customer experience?” is so important.
[29:14] Jennifer shares some of her favorite concepts. Peak-end is her favorite, but the most overlooked is visual salience.
[31:27] Melina shares her experience when she toured the Human Behavior Lab at Texas A&M.
[33:46] Jennifer encourages brands to have someone who is responsible for making sure effectiveness and emotion are being delivered on in the journey level.
[36:20] When you know what you are looking for then you can see if you are on track and put in those nudges. If you don’t know the end game, it is not as effective as it could be. The quality of the work is in the quality of the brief.
[38:06] Making choices easy is so much of what they do. Getting brands to understand where to get people ready to buy is the first step.
[39:15] The first thing they do is think: “Where are the points we need to be nudging to action?” and “Where are the points we need to be inspiring people?” They are usually not the same place.
[39:23] The book Choice Hacking is a good first start for people to think about a framework to apply this at the journey level.
[40:11] Melina’s closing reflections.
[41:46] Grab Melina’s brand new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You), which is now on presale!

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.

Let’s connect:

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141. Where CX and Behavioral Science Meet, interview with Jennifer Clinehens, author of Choice Hacking

42 minutes

[00:40] Today I am so excited to introduce you to Jennifer Clinehens. She is currently CX Strategy Director at Havas CX Helia, London.
[03:05] Jennifer shares her background and how she got involved in behavioral science. She has been lucky to work for many companies across many countries.
[04:35] A lot of the work she has been doing lately has been about the intersection between behavioral science and psychology. She takes those principles and applies them to experience design.
[06:48] One of the big things Jennifer does is framing touchpoints.
[09:39] Crossing over from one medium to another is a difficult point where we often lose some potential customers. There are a lot of steps that happen in the customer journey process.
[10:28] Generally, when you design a customer journey you use a customer journey map: a visual representation of what the customer journey is.
[10:45] On a map the customer journey is linear, but in real life it is messy. Yes, we have a beautiful picture of what the customer journey should be, but in the back of your mind, you have to be pragmatic.
[11:49] The closer we can get to design touchpoints and customer communications with a scientific approach or foundation to apply it to the real world the better it is.
[13:08] The number one thing brands seem to get wrong (or miss completely) is peak-end and applying it across the customer journey. The emotional journey is the secret sauce.
[14:17] A lot of brands get their ending wrong. They don’t know where the real ending is.
[15:41] Brands, in general, don’t realize that the last mile (the true ending) is so critical in so many ways.
[16:17] Jennifer shares an example of Disney realizing the customer journey didn’t end when you left their park.
[17:19] Making the very end of your experience even better and more exciting means your memory of the time you spent in Disneyland is even better. It is how you are constructing the memory, it is not about every single moment you had. It is that emotional peak and true ending that matter.
[17:57] “A brand is a memory.” Peter Steidl (from one of Melina’s “go-to” brainy books, Neurobranding, linked below)
[20:33] There are a few different ways you can look for that true end in your business.
[21:44] Part of the issue of finding that true ending also has to do with silos.
[23:56] The brands that measure on a journey-level versus a touchpoint level have much more value at the end of the day.
[25:32] Melina shares how an online mattress company handles its customer journey.
[27:16] It is important to think through all the moments in the experience: where there could be problems and frustrations and turning it into a really great shareable moment/story. Then you have different associations with that brand.
[28:30] Going that little bit extra and saying “Is that really the end of the customer experience?” is so important.
[29:14] Jennifer shares some of her favorite concepts. Peak-end is her favorite, but the most overlooked is visual salience.
[31:27] Melina shares her experience when she toured the Human Behavior Lab at Texas A&M.
[33:46] Jennifer encourages brands to have someone who is responsible for making sure effectiveness and emotion are being delivered on in the journey level.
[36:20] When you know what you are looking for then you can see if you are on track and put in those nudges. If you don’t know the end game, it is not as effective as it could be. The quality of the work is in the quality of the brief.
[38:06] Making choices easy is so much of what they do. Getting brands to understand where to get people ready to buy is the first step.
[39:15] The first thing they do is think: “Where are the points we need to be nudging to action?” and “Where are the points we need to be inspiring people?” They are usually not the same place.
[39:23] The book Choice Hacking is a good first start for people to think about a framework to apply this at the journey level.
[40:11] Melina’s closing reflections.
[41:46] Grab Melina’s brand new book, What Your Customer Wants (And Can’t Tell You), which is now on presale!

Thanks for listening. Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Android. If you like what you heard, please leave a review on iTunes and share what you liked about the show.

Let’s connect: