For KC Bier Company Founder Steve Holle and Head Brewer Karlton Graham, the goal is to make lagers that just “taste right.” As students who’ve studied in German brewing programs and who’ve traveled widely through the country tasting beers and picking brewers’ brains, they set about to create that experience of German beer for their hometown market in Kansas City. Their precision and devotion has won them accolades and fans who appreciate their attention to detail in ingredient selection and process.

In this lager-focused episode, the two discuss the ways they build just enough, but not too much, character in their delicate lagers. From dialing in ideal gravities to reducing trace notes of vegetal character by using type 45 hops, they’ve found small ways to make the beers better. They decoct, of course, and spund tanks for natural carbonation—all part of today’s standard lager playbook.

However, they offer a vivid reminder that lager brewing isn’t about making beers disappear, it’s about that precarious balance between flavor, simplicity, and drinkability. Their home state is known for its large-scale production of American light lager, but don’t confuse their helles for one of these minimal flavor domestic lagers.

“There’s such a mindset that a pale lager has to be really light in body—people compare it to a domestic lager and there’s something wrong with it if it has any flavor at all,” says Holle. “But helles is my favorite beer that we make, and I like it because it’s a malty beer. It’s pale malt, and a pale beer can be malty and round and full and flavorful.”

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