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As we mark the fifth (yes, fifth!) anniversary of Covid, Nancy and Sarah look back at the mistakes, the time warp, the lessons. While some of these experiences are collective, some are quite specific, especially in blue states where enforced lockdowns and school closures stretched on longer. Was the misery of that time period a symptom of authoritarianism — or democracy?

Big topic of the day: Ruby Franke, the Mormon mom with a YouTube channel currently serving time in prison for child abuse. A new docu-series on Hulu, Devil in the Family, connects the dots on how she got there. Nancy and Sarah talk toxic fundamentalism, mind control, sexual shaming, child abuse (and how it’s culturally constructed), and the ethics of talking/blogging/profiting from your children. We also watched the Baldwins’ new reality show, bless our hearts.

Also discussed:

* A crushing piece by a father on how COVID changed his young son

* Hitchhiking!

* The problems of safetyism

* Sarah’s secret petty side

* “Sorry I didn’t grow up in Appalachia…”

* JD Vance memes are fun for everyone!

* The ethics of writing/blogging about kids

* How Sarah disappointed Katie Herzog

* The vengeful figure of Jodi Hildebrant, therapist

* Visions of Glory, the controversial Mormon book

* We need to talk about Kevin

* Nancy teaches Sarah the meaning of “May-December” romance

* That time Alec Baldwin screamed at his daughter Ireland

* Bad fathers can make good grandfathers

Plus, a new theory on the Manson murders, Steve Kornacki’s secret identity as a Lifetime movie scribe, Senator Bob Kerrey on grace, and more!