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Nancy and Sarah talk with Leigh Stein, whose recent Substack essay might be the best thing to come out of the Lindy West discourse. Entitled “I Escaped Bluebeard’s Castle. Lindy West Didn’t,” the essay describes an abusive relationship from Leigh’s past and sheds light on the painful accommodations some of us make to keep love - or its simulacrum - in our lives. No strangers to overdramatic relationships, the gals then take a trip down the memory lane of terrible boyfriends, the insecurities that make people act like creeps and victims, and the trap that is the public persona.

Also discussed:

* Virginity as liability

* Love addiction = the frothy dilemma of it all

* Nancy’s theory of Lindy West’s self-sabotage

* The Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes school of romance

* Sarah is a sucker for a tough childhood

* That time Leigh contemplated a three-way

* “I remember going to a psychic …”

* An addiction to Intervention

* Rescuing someone over and over makes them weaker, then bitter

* Who do you become if you stop solving other people’s problems?

* What would Dan Savage say?

* Heather Havrilesky, preach!

Plus, polyamory as a conceptual art project, Nancy’s dad’s tough love, contemplating the many meanings of “the love hole,” and much more!

Announcements galore:

Go see Leigh in conversation with our beloved Kat Rosenfield, at the Darien Library on Tuesday, April 21, 7-8pm. Details here.

It’s the first Sunday of the month so you (if not Nancy) recall what that means: First Sunday Zoom, 5pm PT / 8pm ET, come celebrate Easter evening with us. Zoom link for paid subscribers will be sent the day-of.

How long does it take to make coffee? Nancy is thinking eight minutes, the average time of her new weekly mini-series, New York Stories. Paid subscribers get it delivered hot and tasty Sundays at 8am.

No April Fool’s joke. Life is better as a paid subscriber.

Thank you to listeners who commented, “Hey, what gives with the audio cut off??” It’s fixed! Old link should work but here it is again xx The management

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Nancy and Sarah talk about the Oscars and a question that lingers after the show: Why did the public turn on Timothée Chalamet? The Academy Awards have never been about the BEST so much as who speaks to the current cultural appetite. Speaking of cultural appetites, Nancy’s latest for RealClearInvestigations revisits a MeToo defenestration from 2020 and examines the angles of opportunity that led to it.

Also discussed:

* Wait, who wants men to be androgynous?

* Some love for Conan O’Brien

* Rob Reiner’s amazing ’80s-’90’s run

* Michael B. Jordan was always our favorite

* Nancy and Sarah have a Safdie brothers problem

* Leo underrated?

* Sean Penn: a counter-opinion

* Bye bye, network TV

* Do NOT offer the intern coffee on your apartment deck

* How would you like to become the “referendum” on your profession?

* A journalist’s blistering 23-point email: How to NOT get a subject to respond

* “The Art Newspaper only runs stories we can verify.”

Plus, the lessons of the Seymour Hersh documentary, the greatness of Casey Affleck, Nancy leaves her body listening to a podcast, and much more!

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Nancy and Sarah discuss a NYT interview with Lindy West, the former Jezebel firebrand whose new memoir describes her path toward polyamory — and it’s a rocky one! Nancy and Sarah are split on this one, but West’s account raises an interesting question: When a woman who doesn’t want an open marriage learns to embrace it, does that represent a new kind of liberation, or the old-school accommodation of being the perfect wife? They also talk about a recent essay on the dating crisis among young people and another about the trendiness of love addiction. Special episode alert: Nancy learns about gooning.

Also discussed:

* AI SPAM = Never answering the phone again

* How much would you pay for a piece of rhubarb pie?

* Some love for Aidy Bryant

* Personal writing vs. activism

* “The liberating spirit of anal sex” is a phrase that’s used

* Is there anything worse than one-third of men saying they’re afraid to approach a woman? Yes, yes there is

* Nancy watches porn. Reports back with what men gooners want

* The behavioral modifications that came with our screens

* “Is love the most important thing to you?” is a dumb question

* You want more hockey? We got more hockey!

Plus, Sarah’s new book has a pub date, an Oscar Best Picture bet, Nancy finally admits her latest television addiction — and more!

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The State of Our Union is … long, apparently, with Trump holding court for close to two hours. It was an evening of hyperbole, hockey players, trolling, so many medals and about 5-10 too many guests. Our hearts go out to the fact-checkers.

Also discussed:

* Nancy makes no apologies for her hairdo (but really should)

* Without the hyperbole, Trump’s SOTU would have 20% shorter

* Hottest! Country! Ever!

* Isn’t the emphasis here supposed to be on union?

* “Seven pounds of Botox.”

* Melania’s tight miserable smile

* “Third term” ???

* The Men’s US Hockey Team players were made in the Nancy factory

* Medals! Medals! Medals!

* The BAFTA dust-up

* That Atlantic essay on the measles sure did stir the pot!

* Some 10,000 Maniacs love

Plus, will the most caustic word in the English language always remain caustic? An invitation for listeners to write the addendum The Atlantic should have written, Nancy has her greatest hot box ever, and much more!

REMINDER: First Sunday Zoom is this Sunday, March 1, 8pm ET/5pm PT. Paid subscribers get link-day of.

We’re a good hang! Become a paid subscriber.

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Nancy and Sarah talk Love Story, the latest Ryan Murphy jam, about the romance between, and tragic end of, John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bessette. Do the kids even know about these two people anymore? (One of them, it turns out.) Based on the book, Once Upon a Time: The Captivating Life of Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy, by Elizabeth Beller, the series takes liberties — and one is unforgivable. But there are things to like! Top of that list is Sarah Pidgeon, the actress playing Bessette, who transforms a little-known figure with ice-queen vibes into a carnal and mesmerizing presence.

Also discussed:

* Nancy’s back in Tulsa, wants to buy a house

* The best Ryan Murphy series to date is …

* One Degree of Nancy Rommelmann!

* Naomi Watts as Jackie O??

* Ooooh, the Darryl Hannah in this show

* Nancy does a pretty good Jackie O. impersonation

* Mazzy Star, “Set Adrift on Memory Bliss,” and the ‘90s jams Sarah is digging in “Love Story”

* An understandable reaction on Dallas’s grassy knoll

* Almost three weeks since Nancy Guthrie’s kidnapping

* Hepola, cub reporter!

* Jenny Craig or Kate Moss: Who said it?

Plus, pouring one out for Robert Duvall, who died this week at 95; the subversive humor of Paul Rubens, aka Pee Wee Herman, a hot box pick that changes how we understand #MeToo, and much more!

Last-minute alert: Nancy will appear tomorrow morning — Thursday, February 19 —on the FOX show “America’s Newsroom,” to talk about her recent piece, “Caring for Mom Is an Education in Scams and Fraud.” Scheduled time 10:15am ET.

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January 2026 was bleak, and February ain’t doing much better. Or is it just a matter of where you’re looking? Nancy and Sarah talk about bright spots in the culture, which starts with a big communal TV experience and somehow involves… a lot of sports.

Also discussed:

* Patriots’ coach Mike Vrabel, kind of hot?

* Football needs stories (for Sarah)

* Nancy does accents!

* Super Bowl ads we loved

* A bad day for MAGA, a good day for America

* What up with that Brad Pitt trailer?

* Nancy wants to see what new movie?

* The Epstein saga is longer than the Friday the 13th franchise

* The abandoned Western movie Larry McMurtry wrote before Lonesome Dove

* Peter Bogdanovich vs. Peter Boghossian

* What Olympic sport would Nancy and Sarah choose?

* Our sports crushes

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“I had started out determined to learn about Amanda, but as more people contacted me wanting to talk, it was Jason they wished to talk about.” - from To the Bridge, A True Story of Motherhood and Murder*

This 7th installment of “The Sociopaths Among Us” is about the person who put me I mind to do the series in the first place. His name is Jason Smith, and he is the father of the two children his estranged wife, Amanda Stott-Smith, dropped from Portland’s Sellwood Bridge shortly after 1am on May 23, 2009. Amanda was arrested later that same day, a story I partially tell you in the audio (and fully in the book).

Walking into a story like this, one knows nothing other than one’s own and others’ preconceived notions. In the case of a mother who kills a child, these notions run from evil to crazy and not much more. Neither answered for me why Amanda did what she did.

It can also be the case, in stories like this, that the real story, or stories, reveal themselves slowly. You can charge directly at it all you like and you are not going to get it. But if you wait, and you listen…

In the audio you will hear how people started coming to me with stories about Jason Smith, he was not the man he presented himself to be, they said; that he was very, very good at what he did, and what he did was practice deception.

“He could sell ice to an Eskimo, he could sell you the dream,” I was told by the man who’d thought of Jason as his best friend, a thought the man had, by the time he called me, been thoroughly disabused of.

I have written before of the sociopath’s terrific and terrible talent of being able make you feel as though you ‘get’ him as others do not. They spin webs of so, so, so many, lies that eventually catch up with them. They do not register the damage they leave in their wake, or not as something they should care about, and by the time people realize what has happened, the sociopath is onto the next person or situation from which he can gain sustenance. From To the Bridge:

“We become grist for the sociopath’s mill, in other words; we become his fuel. Dr. Hervey Cleckley, in his seminal work on the psychopathic personality, The Mask of Sanity, posited that what sociopaths lack is ‘soul quality.’ Another work I came across called sociopaths “soul eaters of Psychophagic.’ Reading this, I pictured Goya’s painting Saturn Devouring His Son and considered the idea that sociopaths must feed on others because they lack souls of their own.”

Consider what this consumption can do to others.

I can understand someone wondering right about now why I do not have more sympathy for Jason Smith, who after all lost his four-year son. Read on…

* To the Bridge is a"Kindle Exclusive Deal" this month. If you grab it, let me know what you think.

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“The Left has done itself a huge disservice by demonizing men,” says Sebastian Junger, while discussing his recent piece, “Young Men and How the Democrats Lost Them.”

The post ran on his new Substack, named TRIBE, also the title of his 2016 book, though readers may know him best from his 1997 blockbuster, The Perfect Storm, about the sinking of the commercial fishing vessel Andrea Gail.

More recently, Junger is the author of In My Time of Dying, a chronicle of a medical emergency that brought him within seconds of death.

“And then my dead father appears above me to welcome me to help me cross over,” says Junger. Did it make sense that Junger, an atheist, would be visited at that moment by his father, who was “a physicist and an atheist, which is like atheist squared”? Or is that the wrong question? Had he come, as physicist Sir Author Eddington did 100 years ago, up against the essential nature of existence and concluded, “Something unknown is doing we don’t know what.”

Nancy and Junger talk politics, publishing, the liberal publication that asked him to write a piece about what it means to be a man in today’s society and then spiked it because, as the editor wrote, “The science seems solid but the conclusions go against the prevailing political currents at this publication,” and the public capacity for collective resistance, viz. Minneapolis.

“At the end of the day, our politics have to be calm and reasonable,” Junger says. “If they’re inflamed and angry, it leads to chaos and conflict.”

Also discussed:

* Sebastian Junger, flip-phone devotee

* Substack is the new busking

* On 95% of workplace and combat fatalities being male: “You can kill enormous numbers of men with almost no impact on the population. You kill the same number of women and the population crashes.”

* “Megyn Kelly’s, in my opinion, almost sociopathic remarks…”

* The deeply empathetic filmmaker Meg Smaker and the shame of the people who don’t want her work seen

* Some love for National Review

* Hemingway’s penchant for five-syllable titles

* The sinking this week of another fishing boat off Gloucester

Plus, Junger on Restrepo, the documentary he made with his late friend Tim Hetherington (“A human and experiential look at what it feels like to be a soldier in combat”); on WWI/WWII reporter Mary Heaton Vorse (“One of the most extraordinary voices in American literature”), the sexiness of a book that fits in the back pocket of your jeans, and much more!

NOTE: Sarah’s schedule kept her from being on this podcast, but she will be back soon.

This podcast sounds 95% sexier when you become a paid subscriber

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It’s been a rough few weeks, especially in the city of Minneapolis, which saw two citizens engaged in protest gunned down in the streets. Nancy and Sarah talk about how much has gone wrong, including statements from federal officials that directly contradict video evidence, a hiring spree at ICE that seems to have left many without training, and creeping paranoia in Minnesota and beyond. As Trump begins to course-correct, following pushback from his own side, we wonder if Minneapolis can be a turning point for an administration that has gone too far.

Also discussed:

* How’s the snow?

* 2020 protests versus 2026 protests

* Nancy’s daughter forbids her from going to Minneapolis

* “The city is a giant eyeball”

* Bye-bye, Greg Bovino

* Is Kristi Noem on her way out?

* Sarah tells Nancy about watching Alex Honnold climb Taipei 101; Nancy spazzes out

* Layoffs coming to WaPo, which, frankly, Nancy could be a little nicer about

* Nancy and Sarah’s favorite Instagram-er reacts to Alex Honnold

* Amanda Seyfried and her “moon-maiden eyes”

* Holland, England, whatever

* Lewis Pullman, flirty birdie

Plus, the time Nancy shimmied up an elevator shaft, the time Sarah thought she might fall into an abyss while rock climbing, Nancy mixes up Hemingway titles, and much more!

REMINDER: Monthly Zoom hang is this Sunday! 8pm ET/5pm PT. Link sent day-of.

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