Nancy and Sarah discuss the killing of Charlie Kirk, the 31-year-old founder of Talking Points USA. He was a husband and the father of two young children, and he was shot yesterday while engaging with college students at a Utah College. There is no version of the world that makes his murder anything but a horror.

We talk about political violence, radical movements, violence versus microaggressions, bloodlust in the human animal, ideology as a leverage for murder, and how politics became religion. We also discuss the case of Iryna Zarutska, the 23-year-old Ukrainian refugee stabbed to death on a Charlotte, NC subway. What stories make the news? What do we want our news to tell us? These are deep/complicated questions, and whether this moment pushes us closer or farther from the light, Nancy and Sarah are in it together.

Also, here we are again, at September 11.

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Nancy and Sarah go deep on Elizabeth Gilbert, author of Eat Pray Love, whose new memoir has been excerpted in New York magazine. We have thoughts! Does Gilbert have her finger on the tender heart of what women want? Is she a serial grifter who makes millions off women’s low rattle of unhappiness?

We talk about Gilbert’s long career — which has shifted from magazine profile writer to memoirist to social media something-something, plus novelist — and it’s hard not to see a woman caught in her own spin cycle. Sarah is a memoir writer; she lives in this glass house, so she is loath to throw stones. But some truths need to be said. What part of her success is narcissism, what part marketing savvy, what part is con? Plus, we put our hands on a third rail: Gilbert never had kids.

Also discussed:

* Nancy’s hair looks … okay

* Sarah and Nancy sing on-camera; lose subscribers

* Nancy will die in any ditch

* Malcolm Gladwell comes correct, Nancy skeptical

* Sarah says love addiction is maybe not a thing?

* The divorce memoir, unpacked

* Men’s magazines of the ‘90s

* Grape Nuts: “It’s like bullets in milk”

* Yoga in Indiana!

* Sarah wants an Eat Pray Love pilgrimage. Nancy says, nope!

* “You’re just Harold.”

* Nancy cannot get past the scenery-chewing in Tombstone

* Some love for author Jennifer Egan

NEW FEATURE! Today in Everyday Heroism. This MAN did something remarkable this week. When notified of his new title, inspired by his comment about the ubiquity of the term “survivor,” he replied, “It’s insane, and everyone knows it!”

Plus, that time Terry McMillan wrote a book about falling for a younger man who turned out to be gay, affection for Oprah’s weight loss/gain/loss/gain journey, Sarah’s new documentary obsession, and much more!

We have a letters episode coming up so send ‘em in! [email protected]

REMINDER: It’s first Sunday Zoom. Sunday, September 7, at 5pm PT/8pm ET. Link goes to paid subscribers day-of. Show us your animals! Come hang. Discuss a possible group read! It’s not scary, unless you want it to be, and then it’s soooo scary.

Become an everyday hero when you become a paid subscriber.

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Nancy and Sarah chat with Bryan Burrough, author of Gunfighters: How Texas Made the West Wild. Bloody history is something of a specialty for Burrough, a former Vanity Fair scribe whose other (great) books include Days of Rage, about violent radical movements of the ‘70s, Public Enemies, about the ‘30s crime wave, and Forget the Alamo, about, well, trying to remember that famous Texas showdown in a more accurate light.

Their conversation takes place several days after a shooter opened fire at a Minneapolis church, killing two children and injuring many more. Online discourse has yo-yo’ed from gun control to trans issues to the problem of marijuana, but America’s history of violence goes much deeper than culture-war issues. We’re a country forged in guns, whether we like it or not.

Burrough talks about the psychopaths, swindlers, and survivors who shaped the frontier and went down in pop-culture history: Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Butch Cassidy, Wyatt Earp. We also talk Westerns: What’s his take on Tombstone? Deadwood? And which critically acclaimed Western movie made Bryan and Sarah bored out of their skulls? (Hint: It stars Brad Pitt.)

For a conversation ostensibly about the Old West, there’s an awful lot of talk about modern movies, books, and the craft of writing.

Also discussed:

* Sarah says: The Old West = BORING!

* Sam Colt’s pistol was initially a flop

* Honor culture, explained

* Why did Bob Dylan add a “g” to John Wesley Hardin?

* Doc Holliday was a … dentist in Dallas?

* “A man with that great equalizer: a gun.”

* Billy the Kid, the “most ambivalent” of the Old West gunfighters

* “Texans. We have a lot to answer for.”

* Lawlessness can be thrilling

* Wild Bill Hickok, the greatest fraud of the Old West

* Unforgiven is the ultimate anti-Western

* Comanches were not messing around

* When “whore” was a job description

* Jesse James, the first celebrity criminal

* Lonesome Dove is Texans’ War and Peace

* A big gush of love for author Beverly Lowry

* Sarah vs. Nancy on the movie Tree of Life: Pistols at dawn!

* The postpartum aimlessness that comes with finishing a book

* Remembering actor Graham Greene

Also, Nancy, Sarah and Bryan choose the Old West characters they’d most like to be (guess who chose “whore”?), the frontier’s go-to slur, and much more!

REMINDER! First Sunday Zoom hang this week! Sunday, September 7, 5pm PT / 8pm ET, link sent day-of.

OTHER REMINDER: Need advice? Have a story to share? Thoughts/feelings/playful recriminations? email us: [email protected]

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Didn’t happen this way, but great nonetheless:

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Nancy and Sarah interview journalist Paul Kix, author of the award-winning book on the Civil Rights movement, You Have to Be Prepared to Die Before You Can Begin to Live. Paul writes about the Southern Christian Leadership Conference’s ten weeks in Birmingham through fully realized characters and complicated detail, and he tells us how the experience changed him.

We also talk about Paul’s 2023 personal essay, “Liberals Once Embraced Interracial Marriages Like Mine. What Changed?” The conversation skip-hops around race, spirituality, faith, discipline, journalism — and Paul makes Nancy cry (twice!).

Also discussed:

* Marfa, too many metal chairs and cement surfaces

* The Disappearance of Hotel Bathtubs: A lamentation

* How Sarah changed Paul’s life

* Summer 2020: Oh, how it transformed us

* “There’s a liberalism that abandoned me”

* Can a white man tell a black story?

* “Mis·ceg·e·na·tion” “Man·i·chae·an” “Hag·i·og·ra·phy”

* George Floyd, quite the football player

* How the Eagles’ Glenn Frey knew Jackson Browne was the real deal

* “Bombingham”

* Humanizing Bull Conner

* Would you allow your children to get fire-hosed for a righteous cause?

* Harry Belafonte, the George Soros of the civil rights movement

* New Yorkers love to say “No”

* “In the wake of war is the big beating heart of love”

* How to bet on yourself

* “What cause would you die for?”

Plus, Sarah falls into a Weather Underground rabbit hole, an argument for more art told from the perspective of a resentful loser, why Paul kept a photo on his fridge that looked like Billie Dee Williams, and much more.

This is one of our favorite episodes xx

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Nancy and Sarah take on the kerfuffles of the week: Chris Rufo mines the anti-woke vein by digging up the old tweets of a New Yorker writer, the Minnesota Vikings introduce two male cheerleaders (and people lose their minds), hunky provocateur-lite Matt Rife stars in a commercial for ELF makeup (and at least two people object). Welcome to the Outrage Opportunists, who glut up our social media feeds with their Very! Angry! Posts! Are we working out the kinks of a changing society, or just serving up thin gruel?

Plus: Ass, boobs, or legs? Tell us what you love, and we’ll tell you who you are.

Also discussed:

* No Pants Day!

* Nancy’s cute new haircut (cue Olivia Newton-John’s “Physical”)

* Sarah’s dad suffers from chronic integrity

* Sydney Sweeney everlasting

* 2025 Beyonce looks a little like … a panda bear?

* Twitter, megaphone for our id

* “The ass is the engine of a woman’s body”

* Doreen St. Felix: vile racist or 20-something with a social media account?

* The New Yorker blocks Chris Rufo, David Remnick weeps

* “They’re eating the dogs” is kinda an all-timer

* Men in cheerleading: A brief history

* “Sashay, shantay” + other gay stereotypes

* Joaquin Phoenix in a role that fits right

Plus, more on the Canadian hockey trial, Eddington director Ari Aster swings for the fences, Nancy takes a trip to Sally’s Beauty Supply, and much more!

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Nancy and Sarah talk about the latest in the “WTF is wrong with men?” media series, this time in The Cut/NY Mag. They also discuss the strange case of the Canadian hockey team recently found not guilty in a high-profile sex assault case. They intended to talk about the new Marc Maron HBO special, but that’ll have to wait till next time.

Also discussed:

* Mexican barber shop!

* That time Walter Kirn dressed down Nancy on-air

* Sarah’s cat is spoiled, go figure

* Nancy throws down a moral dilemma: Nazis or Hamas?

* “Emotional erection”

* Slinky! Slinky! Boing-boing.

* But who takes the hell-child to the doctor?

* Are same-sex couples happier?

* “Pies Against Patriarchy”

* The “evidence-based case” for lesbianism

* Hetero-antagonism: We’ve gone too far.

* WE LOVE MEN.

* “And another thing about dinosaurs …”

* Don’t let your dumb things define you

* Open invitation to the family Pesca

* Football is Sarah’s ZIP code

* Vagina dentata

Plus, Sarah’s falling for Bill Buckley, Nancy’s theory on why men fall asleep after sex, remembering when New York Magazine was “a well-rounded meal,” and much more!

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Nancy and Sarah discuss a new Sydney Sweeney ad for American Eagle. Is saying “my jeans are blue” a dog whistle? Or is “dog whistle” a 21st-century term for finding outrage in absolutely anything? Speaking of, you can count on the New York Times to detail another thing men are doing wrong. This week we talk “mankeeping!”

But most of this episode concerns one Billy Joel, whose HBO doc has thrust him in the spotlight again. Why do critics hate him so much? Like REALLY, REALLY hate him? We have thoughts! It’s a conversation about art, criticism, envy, and the joy of singing along.

Also discussed:

* Wikifeet!

* We want to eat cute widdle baby feet

* Sarah is a volunteer “man-keeper”

* What wine moms will never admit to

* Josh Hepola, Captain Mansplainer

* Retired men and coffee shops: it’s a thing

* Don Henley is handsome

* “Schlock-n-roll”

* Sarah tweets from a Target Superstore; mistakes were made

* Smoke ‘Em gals are pro-Eagles

* Nancy likes a mosh pit, does not recognize Shakespeare

* Do not tell people you’re a bestselling author

* Billy Joel Lyrics Quiz!

Plus, the song that made Sarah weep in the car this week, what Sarah learned from Jon Ronson’s Twitter, “the quality of mercy is not strained” and much more!

Reminder: First Sunday Zoom! Aug 3, 8pm ET / 5pm PT. Paid subscribers only. Link the day-of.

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Nancy and Sarah discuss a recent viral essay in NYT magazine called “The Trouble With Wanting Men.” Nancy had a meltdown reading this story, while Sarah saw romantic problems she recognized as well as behavior designed to fail. The two ladies talk about a vogue for female bitchery, a lack of grace in women’s voices, and whether men and women can ever repair the anger and resentment that’s erupted between them — at least online.

Also discussed:

* The time Nancy’s mom bought Black Sabbath PARANOID on 8-track

* That time Ozzy peed on the Alamo

* diddle-diddle-diddle

* Sarah propositions Kat Rosenfield, mispronounces her last name (again)

* Maybe that Mars/Venus guy was onto something

* Sarah wept through the Kavanaugh hearings

* “Why didn’t you tell me you had a uterus?”

* Girlboss versus YouPorn; YouPorn wins

* Cormac McCarthy lunges from ambush

* Sarah negs Nancy, proves that negging works …

* Open marriages, oy

* “Bratty sub”

* Nancy does not want a man to bend to her whims

* A debate over the word “thrill”

* That Texas Monthly flood essay, damn

* Nancy gives advice to overheated feminists

* Sarah waxes sociological about equality and same-sex relationships

* “hermeneutic labor” is …?

* All snuggle, all the time

Plus, what Sarah wants Nancy to read her on her deathbed, Pedro Pascal is too much with us, Christopher Hitchens on Bill Clinton, and much more!

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Nancy and Sarah discuss the viral story of the week: Astronomer CEO Andy Byron and head of HR Kristin Cabot get caught cuddling on camera at a Coldplay concert. Who are these people, and why do we care? Good question! Celebrity in the 21st century is a relative term, and this story raises questions about surveillance, social-media Schadenfreude, the danger of online sleuthing, and why we have Kiss Cams in the first place.

The ladies also talk about a NYT story on how decadence at Peak Conde Nast is reminiscent of the fall of Rome. (Hint: There will be elephants.)

Also discussed:

* Ice cream got too complicated.

* Death by Grok

* Why is there a Kiss Cam at a Coldplay concert?

* WHAT WOULD YOU DO? A hypothetical on Kiss Cams.

* Sarah’s salty texts with Oscar Isaac

* Don’t you go dipping into Nancy’s DMs

* What Succession teaches us about shareholders

* “Blow-in cards”

* Sarah’s Columbia Records & Tapes scam

* Expectations of privacy when having illicit affair

* Nancy has not read Pride and Prejudice

* Rock music critics have dopey prejudices

* That $475k Vanity Fair photo shoot

* The New Yorker, not really a money-maker

* Who is the real Conde Nast?

* Sarah makes Nancy blush

* Pam Colloff, the GOAT of longform

* … But is the tampon singing?

Plus, love for 30 Rock, the writer who made $12 a word, why you should reach out to friends (and strangers), and much more!

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Nancy and Sarah are stumbling into land mines — quickly! — in this episode, where a convo about Jennifer Love Hewitt’s recent turn in the spotlight proves the ladies don’t even agree on that. It’s hard to talk about women and their bodies: Fat vs. curvy, skinny vs. anorexic, body positive vs. morbidly obese, Ozempic-face vs. mom-bod, Lena Dunham vs. #SkinnyTok. How the ladies discuss these subjects may offend some people (warning: a lot of boob talk), but maybe it’s time to stop taking such easy offense on a vital and complicated subject. As Sarah says, “It’s a weird time to have a body.”

NOTE: Want to judge our appearance? Only fair. Join us on our YouTube channel.

In the second half of the show, we ask: Will the Epstein story be what splits MAGA?

Also discussed:

* A plague of mosquitos!

* Sarah is a sensitive flower; Nancy is pigeon-toed

* Love for The Dumb Zone

* How is Lena Dunham like Woody Allen?

* Sarah’s “absolute milk sheds”

* The miracle of “nursing boobs”

* “We have all these conversations about guys and their dicks” (???)

* Liv Schmidt, a 23-year-old influencer who looks exactly like you assume

* Shame, the most powerful motivator

* The getting-our-period anecdotes no one wanted to hear

* Respect: Nancy’s dad loved Helen Mirren

* Props to Tina Brown

* Stalin: hot or not?

* A moral telling of a tragic story

Plus, true-crime talk, coming around on Ozempic, the time Sarah flashed an 80-year-old at Oktoberfest, and much more!