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Nancy and Sarah are joined by the Great Mike Pesca, one-time Jeopardy! contestant and host of news podcast The Gist, to talk about dudes and dude-related topics. They discuss men’s-only spaces and whether women’s workout wear has become hyper-sexualized (and is that a bad thing?). They also break down Gavin Newsom’s podcast debut with his guest, conservative firebrand Charlie Kirk. Good idea? Dangerous idea? It’s always a good time when Pesca visits the Smoke ‘Em pod.

Also discussed:

* In this house, we believe in peanut butter

* Booo, Daylight Savings Time

* A Pesca discourse on the copper content of pre- and post-1982 pennies

* Lady Gaga on Saturday Night Live

* High school Sarah had a crush on Mike Myers!

* What Lululemon did to women — and men

* Nancy does not like to see men without their shirts on!

* Curves is the Jenny Craig of gyms

* Why does a man buy a woman a steak?

* Sarah is the whore of Babylon Williamsburg

* Murder podcasts should not be snack food

* The RFK Salon story that had to be retracted

* Why do men dominate the podcast space?

* Theories on Chris Hayes

* Parker Posey’s Lorazepam accent

* Sadness and horror over Gene Hackman’s death

Plus, why Sarah said no to Megyn Kelly, the time Pesca thought Lady Gaga was a drag queen, a PSA to take care of your olds, and much more!

It’s always an hour earlier when you become a paid subscriber.

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“It was a very bad night for American boobs,” Sarah observed of the 2025 Oscars, where a conspicuous fashion trend has gone mostly unnoticed. Nancy and Sarah are on record for believing boobs are magic, so why did so many gorgeous actresses hide their tractor beams under a bushel? Could it be a sign of fashion’s increasing androgyny… or Hollywood’s increasing irrelevance? Then, Nancy goes on a multi-part rant about the Tate brothers coming back to the U.S., while Sarah ponders how those two became avatars of American manhood. Finally: Body language in the Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy showdown.

Also discussed:

* McDonald’s serves the world’s best Diet Coke

* Please don’t tell Sarah you appreciate her

* 75% of Eagle Scouts are girls?

* “Your Dune 2 fan is not watching the Oscars.”

* “Boys just want the pretty girl in math class.”

* Is J.D. Vance being cast as the heavy?

* The end of reading?

* Don DeLillo was “a beautiful culmination of the 20th century.”

* Why Sarah shies away from talking politics

* Has news replaced our need to read tragedy?

Plus, Smoke gets a “Dear John” letter, the mystery of Gene Hackman’s death, and much more!

PS: Spare a thought/prayer for Kat Timpf, recently diagnosed with cancer, whose boobs are rightly being used right now only (or mostly!) to feed her newborn son. Love you Kitty Kat, godspeed xx

Actual footage of Sarah watching Oscar dresses on the red carpet …

Oscars fashion fun behind the paywall, only for paid subscribers …

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Eli Lake is not a historian but a “journalist who loves history.” The former “Re-Education of Eli Lake” host and current Free Press contributor comes on Smoke for the second time to discuss his latest pop-history podcast, “Why We’re Obsessed with JFK Conspiracies.” As usual, Lake puts his own distinctive spin on a story that may have been told before, yes, but not this way.

First, though, Nancy and Sarah have to talk to Eli about Israel. Eli explains that what happened to the Bibas family has hardened his heart, but he’s trying not to let it radicalize him. We talk morals and ideologies, the horrors of war, and the necessities for civil society.

Also discussed:

* “A rabbit hole the country has never been able to climb out of”

* Eli teaches Sarah some Yiddish

* “If Baruch Goldstein had been Palestinian, they’d be naming schools after him.”

* Gaza-lago?

* On conspiracy susceptibility: “It’s either, ‘You’re a moron’ or, ‘How can you be so naive, kid?” And yet we want to believe …

* Eli coins new and helpful word: Mono-cause

* JFK is the “octopus conspiracy”

* Even LBJ thought something weird was going on …

* The unspeakable abuses exposed by the Church Committee

* We are a pro-Norman Mailer podcast!

* Nancy says something profound?

* Sarah quotes Timothee Chalamet award speech, nobody cares

* Editor’s note: Hal Ashby directed Harold and Maude

* Second editor’s note: Waylon Jennings sand Dukes of Hazzard theme song

* “What happened to normal movies?”

* The Emilia Perez kerfuffle is so 2020

Plus, Eli is such a good guest he brought his own outro (AND wrote Nancy a Sleater-Kinneyesque theme for her new interview series CHEFS TALK), Nancy and Sarah wrassle over what movie wins Best Picture, we imagine a woke Dukes of Hazzard, and much more!

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You might know Meghan McCain from her stints at FOX, The View, SiriusFM, but surely you know her as the daughter of the late Arizona senator John McCain. “Nepo baby!” McCain jokes during her podcast introduction, but McCain is much more than that. She’s a savvy media fixture who has very strong opinions about, well, everything. Nancy and Sarah like that in a gal! The three of them talk about politics, body image, #MeToo, and the vibe shift that has made conservatives cool for the first time in Meghan’s life.

Also discussed:

* “The most radical thing I’ve ever done is not dieting.”

* Thoughts on Ozempic

* Megababe for chub rub

* “Nobody was cooler than an Obama bro, and my dad tried to stop him.”

* Meghan on her dad: “He carpied the diem.”

* “The uptight, HR-department, school-marm dorks are the Democrats?”

* The anchoring sanity of The Fifth Column

* Aziz Ansari and Meghan’s #MeToo breaking point

* The cringe of working for Roger Ailes

* That time the New Yorker claimed Brett Kavanaugh was a gang rapist

* Friends we lost in the culture war …

* Austin: a lost paradise?

* Some love for Mark Halperin

* Immigration and the lack of humanity

* The heartbreak of the Bibas family

* Meghan gives “Texas babe vibes”

* LET’S GO TO THE RODEO

Plus, Meghan on what happened at Columbia (her alma mater), Nancy has a Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct moment, Sarah doesn’t think she’s a Bad Bitch, and much more!

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“Would you have Elon Musk’s baby?” Sarah texted Nancy the other day, to which she responded, “Fuck no.” Thus launches the latest Smoke ‘Em debate, in which our co-host who is without child confesses she’d take some of that SpaceX sperm. Has she lost her mind, or is she merely responding to nature’s imperative? We discuss this, as well as Musk’s new babymama, Ashley St. Clair.

Then it’s on to a double-dip from New York Times Magazine: “Why Gen X Women are Having the Best Sex” and “How I Learned That the Problem in My Marriage Was Me.” Is 20th-century licentiousness dead? Has therapy bled too far into the culture?

Also discussed:

* Diet Pepsi > Diet Coke

* “On accident” vs. “by accident”?

* Sperm ice cubes at the 7-Eleven

* Milo Yiannopoulos has entered the chat

* Can you make yourself sexy or nah?

* Netchix and flill

* Nancy declares she does not like declarative sentences

* The saddest divorce book

* Why does Nancy get so annoyed when people talk about their sex lives?

* Sarah’s string of younger men

* Moynihan’s not kicking those bikini-clad girls out of bed

* Women have rage problems, too

* Announcement: CHEFS TALK!!!

* “The thing about Led Zeppelin songs is, none of the names make sense.”

Plus, the speedball of intimacy, the obsession with being obsessed, Nancy gets a crush on Jimmy Page, and much more!

Correction: Listener Mavis wrote: “In ‘Iphigenia in Forest Hills,’ she killed her child’s father, not her daughter!” Absolutely correct! Nancy regrets the error, and for more Janet Malcolm, see this week’s hot boxes

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Nancy and Sarah celebrate Valentine’s Day with a civil disagreement on how stupid the holiday actually is. Also: Sex trivia! The conversation ranges from how people can masturbate in an MRI to Super Bowl controversies and the greatness of Janet Malcolm. Also discussed:

* All New Yorkers go to Miami?

* Sarah explains women to Nancy

* Gifts are not meant to be manipulations

* Kanye and AI nonsense

* “Swat-sticker” (!!!!!)

* Bill Gates on the upside of AI

* The low rattle of unhappiness

* Salmon sperm facials

* Tafv, we want your blood

* Something strange is afoot at the Kinsey Institute

* How often do people over 45 masturbate, and why is that number a lie?

* Orgasms in your sleep

* “How are you masturbating in an MRI?”

* Taylor Swift booed

* Farewell to the penny!! You served us well.

* Great new Janet Malcolm story by Katie Roiphe

* People vs. the story: A journalism debate!

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“Ready to go ten rounds?” Nancy asked Sarah, when Sarah asked her to watch Emilia Pérez, a Spanish-language musical for which there is no shortage of agitation on both the right and the left. Trans activists hate it, Ben Shapiro called it garbage, Mexican film goers are apparently asking for their money back. And yet, the movie got a whopping 13 Oscar nominations. What gives?

Nancy reluctantly watched Emilia Pérez, and — was completely surprised. Her reaction was, in fact, very similar to Sarah’s. (That’s why Sarah wanted her to see it.) Is this wild, unconventional movie a triumph, a “glittering disaster,” a “trans Mrs. Doubtfire”? The answer is all of the above.

Also discussed:

* “Happy Monday!”

* Nancy fat-shames the poor widdle groundhog

* New coinage: “Western Time”

* Sarah’s pre-flight soul inventory is arduous

* “The denial of death shapes most people’s lives.”

* “House of Strauss” has the best theme music (and, ahem, the best guests)

* General Hospital, remembered

* We hate lecture films

* Why Emilia Perez makes sense as an opera

* Selena Gomez is like watching fourteen cupcakes shimmy around in a dress

* Johanne Sacreblue!

* The Pope version of Survivor

* Kieran Culkan is a bad-ass

Plus, Nancy writes a nice essay, Sarah is up for an award, what the hell is Groundhog’s Day, and much more!

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Sarah and Nancy discuss the Atlantic story “The Anti-Social Century,” about how much of modern life is being lived in isolation. They talk about eating alone, parasocial relationships, and why Sarah feels completely nailed by the data point that “the typical female pet owner spends more time actively engaged with her pet than she spends in face-to-face contact with friends of her own species.”

Also discussed:

* Okay, we’ll talk about that thing Elon did

* Is the blue/gold dress the metaphor of our times?

* Trump is the candidate Americans built brick-by-brick

* Who did Nancy write-in for president 2024? This guy…

* Gotta agree with Sarah’s old roommate on the Kleenex thing

* Shark Tank love

* McLuhan: “Every augmentation is an amputation”

* Sarah finds listening to Jon Ronson is “deeply edifying”

* Nancy is impressed — again! — with the concept “skin hunger”

* Someone admits to watching Rock of Love

* Character.ai: Let us know if you’re using it!

* Late-breaking Oscar nominations

Plus, the generosity of David Lynch’s dreamscapes, “let me sell you a solution to a problem you didn’t know you had,” Sarah requests you send her postcards stating your favorite hm-hm-hm, and much more!

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Reading Noah Rothman’s new piece in Commentary, “A Clockwork Blue: How the Left Has Come to Excuse Away and Embrace Political Violence,” I felt as though he had written it just for me; this, because he called to account institutions and individuals who proclaim violence from the left justified, a trend I found maddening when I covered 150+ nights of violent street protests in Portland in 2020.

And about that: How long did Rothman think that violence would have been explained away had it been committed by the right?

"Hours," he said.

In a discussion that calls out violence on all sides, Rothman addresses the roots of political barbarism, how the power of crowds can lead well-adjusted people to commit orgies of violence, the juvenile cop-out of making avatars of people in order to justify brutality against them, and some especial opprobrium for the intellectual and spiritual poverty that makes a hero of Luigi Mangione, who, weeks after murdering UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson, was given a round of applause by an SNL audience.

“The point of this piece is a call for political consistency,” said Rothman. “Only when we have consistency will we see a decline in political violence.”

Noah Rothman is a senior writer for National Review. He is the author of Unjust: Social Justice and the Unmaking of America (Regnery, 2019) and The Rise of the New Puritans: Fighting Back Against Progressives’ War on Fun (HarperCollins, 2022). His work has been published in USA Today, the Washington Examiner, the New York Post, the New York Times, the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and elsewhere. Follow on Twitter/X at NoahCRothman

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Nancy and Sarah dive into the messy New York magazine cover story on literary superstar Neil Gaiman, accused of sexual assault by multiple women. The story broke over the summer in a British podcast — which Nancy and Sarah listened to, and much preferred — and they zero in on the story’s different presentations and ethical tangles. It’s a tale of celebrity, status-seeking, boundarilessness, and cruelty. But is it criminal? Let’s discuss.

Also discussed:

* Joe Biden made a speech

* Bathtub as flytrap

* If I serve you a steak, and you write to tell me you loved it, then logically do I:

* Serve you another steak

* Assume you don’t really like steak and only told me you did so we can keep hanging out

* Report me because I pressed the steak on you while knowing you hated steak

* What does logic have to do with it?

* To be clear: We are anti-vagina whipping

* Do women want sexual freedom, to be protected class — or both?

* Please don’t trot out experts to support your insupportable point

* Nancy knee-jerks over journalism

* Is consent really black and white? And if so, why has it spawned five million think pieces and hours of podcasts like this?

* Jon Ronson puts Sarah to sleep but “in a loving way.”

* “If my literary hero appeared to me when I was 22 when I happened to be hot and not a binge-drinking chubby lonely-heart watching Real World marathons while hungover on the futon …”

Plus, Sarah hates the “cup of tea” consent video, some love for fact-checkers, the 1-minute video that’s made Nancy laugh 20 times, and much more!