Michael Shermer speaks with Chris Edwards about educational reform, his study and teaching of world history, the problems in K–12 education, the zip-code model vs. the seat time model of education and how they result in massively different educational outcomes, how "no child left behind" left children behind, federal vs. state educational systems, cheating scandals and what to do about them, the future of education in a world of free (or nearly free) online learning, comparing the U.S. educational system to other countries. Shermer and Edwards also discuss thought experiments, based on Edwards' latest book, Thought Experiments: History and Applications for Education.