2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

This week, we pay tribute to the incomparable musician and actor, Meat Loaf, who passed away this month by visiting….nope, not that one. We skipped over the more obvious Rocky Horror Picture Show for the less obvious but promising Stage Fright. This brutal 2014 horror-comedy-musical – only the second horror-comedy-musical we’ve reviewed on this show – didn’t quite float our boats, but it gave us a perfect vehicle for revisiting the career of this unparalleled talent.

Stage Fright (2014)

Episode 290, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. 

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: Craig, not far on the heels of Betty White’s death, we learned of the death of one of my all-time favorite musicians, Meat Loaf. Meat Loaf is his name. Most people, I think know Meat Loaf…God, where do I start? I didn’t, I didn’t know about Meat :oaf, uh, until I was in high school, actually, I had a good friend who I met at music camp.

I went to, uh, I think I was a, it was between my freshman and sophomore year. I went to a band camp at a local university and my roommate, uh, was a big fan of a lot of different styles. And so we had a lot of fun going back and forth and talking about our favorite musicians. And one thing that he says, oh, meatloaf.

And I said, what are you talking about? And he says, oh God, there’s a new album out now Bat Out of Hell 2. of you heard it. And I had seen the posters and I’ve been curious about. And of course the song, uh, I would do anything for love, but I won’t do that was playing nonstop on the radio at that time.

And I put all these three things together and said, oh, he did that song. And he says, you got to listen to this album. It’s amazing. I went out and bought the album on his recommendation as soon as I got back from band camp and was blown away. The style of music on there was just unlike. I mean, of course, you know, as you grow up and you listen to pop music, you hear some of these older songs.

And so, you know, I guess I’d heard some of these songs before, but I never really heard so much of it. And w w and said, gosh, this, this is a style. This is a very big bombastic operatic rock. And it really spoke to me. I just love the boldness and the audacity of in the, over the top aspect to the music. It just, it just sung.

And I loved it. And I went and found his earlier album, since that was part two, I went back to find part, one, found out the Paradise By the Dashboard Light came from that. So I got to listening that, and I just went through pretty much a whole year, probably of discovering meatloaf and his songwriter, buddy, Jim Steinman, who wrote most of his songs and wrote lots of similar style songs for other musicians as well.

Many of which were big top hits turn around bright eyes. He wrote. Oh God. Yes. yep, yep. Yep. Original sin for dailer Dane, Jim Steinman, his songwriting buddy wrote this and, you know, meatloaf and Jim were almost inseparable really from a, from a creative standpoint. Jim wrote most of his most popular songs, Jim diamond and meatloaf Matt, while, while meatloaf was, um, involved in, in musical theater, meatloaf was, uh, he, you know, his name really is like Meat Loaf.

He was born Marvin Lee ad day. However, even when he was a baby, apparently he came out bright red and his father convinced the nurses to write meatloaf or meat or something on his, the tag on his bed. Marvin Lee . He just kind of became even as a kid called Meat Loaf and he was bigger. He weighed like over 200 pounds, quite young.

He was made fun of a lot for his weight. And I think the weight is something he always struggled with throughout his. But, you know, bigger guys like this, uh, tend to also be able to belt out bigger voices. And I think that that ended up kind of perhaps some of his physicality really turned out, working in his favor in doing these very operatic type songs that he ended up getting well known for and really excelling at.

I believe when Jim Steinman was working on a play called more than you deserve Meat Loaf was in a touring company for hair. And, uh, that’s how he sort of discovered him and that he, he got pretty big, uh, after doing hair. He also had a band on his own on the side, but when the two of those guys got together, they started working on bat out of hell, almost at the same time.

And when they released that album, it just, it was a popular success and much like these popular albums that just go down in history. The critics hated it. Critics said it was too over the top. It’s too cheesy. It’s too goofy. But nevertheless, it really resonated with the public and became a signature style for him.

Jim’s diamond wrote the songs. Meat Loaf did the thing meatloaf went on around this very same time to be in Rocky horror picture show, which I guess we could have easily done for this podcast as well. We chose to go with a movie little more recently, 2000 fourteens stage fright, which is a horror musical.

And this was recommended to us by a couple of people. I believe, of course, when we heard meatloaf died, we instantly went to see if he was in a, in a horror movie besides Rocky Horror. And this came up and I’ll have to say that after reading the little quick synopsis on IMD B, I was like, Craig, we got to do this because it just sounds hilarious.

A snobby musical theater camp is terrorized by a bloodthirsty killer who hates musical theater.

It just, it sounds so delicious. And Craig and I are both fans of musical. Craig and I have worked together and musical theater productions. And so I just knew this would be the perfect one for us to do. He’s got a pretty big part and it’s directed by a guy named Jerome Sable who wrote and directed it.

And this is almost pretty much the only thing he’s done. He’s done. Uh, he did a short before this and I think he might be working on something now, but, uh, yeah, it’s an interesting project. I’d never heard of this before at all. Uh, certainly had never been on my radar. How about you, Craig? Uh, 

Craig: I had heard of it and I had seen the poster and I knew that Meat Loaf was in it.

And I knew that it was a musical. I, I don’t know why I never got around to watching it cause I hadn’t seen it before we decided to do it. And another reason that I’m surprised I haven’t seen it is because I really am a meatloaf fan. Like, um, bat outta hell was a huge, enormous part of the soundtrack of my childhood.

Parents, my aunts and uncles loved it. I mean, it was playing all the time greeting about the guy today. I was surprised that that was so, so successful. And then he pretty much went largely ignored in the United States, like throughout all of the eighties, like he was still releasing albums, but they weren’t charting in the states.

They were doing well in Europe and in Asia, but, uh, not here. And he even had a huge hit, I think in Europe, a duet was share that didn’t even get airtime in the United States, which I don’t really understand. Those are two iconic performers. I don’t know how. Went ignored, but his big comeback with bat outta hell too.

I think when we were in high school, I would do anything for love, but I won’t do that. And I remember that the song was great. The music video was cinematic. It was like this huge beauty and the beast saying like, oh man, it was really good. And it was really cool. You know, the guy had some, I don’t know if you want to call them political.

It’s not necessarily political, but he had some stances that I don’t necessarily agree with. He, he was a climate denier and. Had kind of an anti-vax stance or whatever. These are things I’m not thrilled about, but whatever you can’t deny that he just had an amazing talent. Um, and I can attest to that because when I was in college, we used to do karaoke all the time.

Local bars did karaoke and we were there, you know, at least once a week through most of college and girls would always ask me to say, Paradise by the dashboard light with them. And I love that song and, uh, I would get up on stage with these girls and I would start singing and I’d get about halfway through it.

And I’d be like, every time, like every time I’d be like, oh my God, I forgot. This is a fucking hard song.

You get into the last part. And I’m just screaming 

Todd: my head off most of his tunes, really, if you’re gonna, oh gosh, you gotta have a range. 

Craig: Yeah. He has a huge, amazing range and a huge top range. you’d look at this guy and you’d think he’s probably a bass. He’s this big masculine guy. And he had this amazing tenor.

Um, that’s, that’s difficult to replicate and, uh, you know, even in Rocky horror, his song, hot patootie that’s that that song is high. And he nailed it and he’s great in that movie and you’re right. We could have done that movie. It just seemed too obvious, 

Todd: too obvious for us. And, you know, I think of him almost like an opera singer.

I think his music was very operatic. Uh, Jim Steinman described it as Wagnerian rock. That was kind of what he was going for. And he also had a very theatrical approach to the music itself. It is bombastic, it’s operatic, it’s big, it’s, it’s loud and it, but it’s, it’s also, uh, you know, goes in different places, a highly emotional and clever even in the lyrics.

But, um, just like yous mentioned this, this epic music video, which is like beauty and the beast and the song also what lasts like 10 minutes or so for all, you know, anything you can do for love. I won’t do that. Uh, I was reading. An interview with the director writer, director, and producer of this film, stagefright, who talked about meeting meet for the first time.

And he said that you would think that, you know, we, he said there was a piano in there. We had some brought some songs, you know, and all that. And we did end up going through a little bit, but he said, you would think that we just sat down in there and planned out, okay, well, we’re going to play this and we’re going to sing this and you’re going to sing that.

But no, he said first and foremost, he was interested in the. He wanted to know who is this guy? What’s, uh, what’s the emotional aspect of it. And it just makes sense because, uh, he said, you know, this is how he approached his music was very theatrically. Um, what is the emotional content behind the songs?

And, and, you know, not, can I hit the notes, but what do I need to do to bring that, that power to it? And it, it shows, I think this was part of the critics problem. They said, this is too much. It’s like music, the musical theater of the rock world. You know, we’re all just going to kind of chuckle at it and laugh at it and put our noses up at it.

But you guys are being, are being totally cheesy, but we love. 

Craig: But it resonated with the public. I mean, I don’t know anybody who doesn’t like those songs, they’re just really good. And, and he was a fine actor too. I mean, he didn’t have an expansive acting career, but he was in quite a few movies and, um, some, some memorable stuff.

Uh, one of the ones that stands out for me was his role in fight club. Oh yeah. I forgot about that. He played this, um, older heavyset man. Like the gag was kind of that he had these big man boobs, but you know, he played kind of this sad sack, but then through fight club, he found his confidence and, and all that stuff and small role, but he did a good job in it.

And I do, I think that he was a theatrical person, like you said, he started out in musical theater. I thought it was funny. I just read today that he, he did hair and then. He was working on some other production when he was scouted for the role in, uh, Rocky horror. And, uh, he went and he was doing all of the rehearsals, but the, he didn’t know.

How sexual it was in nature until Tim Curry arrived, uh, onset in full costume and, and did sweet transvestite. And when he saw that he wanted to pull out, he wanted to drop out of the production. He thought it was too scandalous or something. I don’t know, but the director talked to me and I think we’re talking about the show.

I don’t think we’re talking about the movie at this point. Yeah, he did the show first. Right. But, uh, the, the director convinced them. He said, just wait. And until opening night, just, just do opening night and let’s see what happens. And the crowd just went absolutely wild and, and seeing their reaction convinced him to stay.

And then of course he reprised the role in the film and that that movie is iconic in its own. Right. But this movie, you know, I don’t know what to say about this movie. We joked, uh, when, when we were talking about doing it, that this will only be the second horror musical comedy that we’ve ever done. Uh, the first one, the first one being Anna in the, in the apocalypse, which both of us really enjoyed.

I didn’t know what to, I had no idea. I had never seen a trailer. I knew nothing about this. I didn’t know what the tone was going to be. And then I started watching it. And, and it’s also funny because Minnie driver is in this movie and she’s given top billing and she’s in like the first. Five minutes.

Todd: It’s like a fake out, like at the beginning of scream 

Craig: with drew Barrymore moment. 

Todd: Right. I was a little disappointed by that. I was really hoping to see a lot of mini driver in this cause I seen her. I was too, but I. No 

Craig: she’s and she’s brilliantly talented as well. Uh, it opened up, I mean, I kinda knew right from the beginning that we were getting into something, we were getting into something when there was a, a scroll at the beginning.

Um, the following film is based on true events out of respect for the family and friends of the victims names have been changed, but the musical numbers will be performed exactly as they occurred.

And I thought that was pretty hilarious. And it starts on what looks like a stage or kind of backstage. And there’s this guy in a tux and there’s this masked killer, like in the shadows and he stabs the guy, but then it turns out that this is all at theatrical production. It’s an opera and Kiley Swanson played by Minnie driver is the ingenue.

And she’s starring and she sings this big aria and her two young children are watching from the wings with meatloaf. His characters name is Roger McCall, and he is the producer of the show, I think. But I think it’s also suggested that he’s also Kylie’s boyfriend 

Todd: or 

Craig: husband or something, but anyway, after the show, it’s a huge success, you know, uh, the audio.

Loves it. And she kind of talks to her kids after a little bit. She, she autographs a photograph for her daughter and she writes some cheesy thing on it. I don’t know, like all life’s a song, so saying or something. I don’t know. The girl sings that line several times, but then the, the daughter Camilla wanders out on stage and is kind of singing on her own, but she sees a massive figure in the balcony and then it cuts to black and we go back into Kylie’s dressing room and that mast figure comes up behind her.

And she’s talking to him as though she thinks it is a lover and she’s like, oh no, we can’t do this here. But he’s like caressing her. And then he stabs her in the throat and in the mouth. And it’s brutal. It’s horrible. The violence and gore in this movie, this ends up being a cheesy movie. The violence and gore in this movie are intense and definitely qualify.

As a horror movie. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s a real interesting tonal choice. I read that many driver when she was doing ADR for this, which is, you know, just kind of dubbing, uh, for that particular scene. And they were doing extra sounds. She couldn’t watch it because it was so violent, even though she did, she did the stunt work there, like she was wearing the appliances and all that.

She couldn’t actually watch it because it was so it was so. It 

Craig: is very violent, very bloody. And to see somebody stabbed in the throat and through the mouth with a giant kitchen knife, very visceral and upsetting the thing. I didn’t know this until after I’d watched the movie. Cause I didn’t read anything about it beforehand because I didn’t want anything to be spoiled, but something that I was really impressed by this is a full blown musical was lots of singing and many drivers sings this aria in the beginning.

That’s very high. It’s very operatic. And I read the, the performers all did all of their singing live. It’s crazy. That is crazy. Like that’s, that’s virtually unheard of. You always record the singing and then lip sync the production, you know, the, the filming. I mean, that’s pretty standard for all of them to have been singing, live that in and of itself is impressive.

And I don’t know, I was asking myself, did I know that many drivers saying, I don’t know if I did or not like somewhere in the back of my head. Like, I feel like I knew that, but it was impressive. She’s gorgeous. She had a lovely voice she’s killed off right there in the beginning. 

Todd: She was in the, um, she was in the film version of Phantom of the opera.

Craig: That’s right. She played car lotta. Correct. Who was, um, like the main diva that the main girl ends up replacing the one that the Phantom wants to perform the diva role? Uh, correct. 

Todd: Correct. And this, this musical, that sheet within the movie that she’s singing is called the haunting. Of the, of the opera or the haunting of the theater, right.

Craig: Something like that, haunting of the opera. Right. And it’s very clearly prepared it. Yeah, it is Phantom of the opera basically. Um, they just don’t use Lloyd Webber’s, you know, they, they, they wrote their own, their own version of it, but that’s very much what it is. They write 

Todd: it similar. Like it’s clearly nodding to it, like similar style, some similar chord patterns.

It’s kind of cute actually, how they’re trying to mimic it a little bit. 

Craig: It is cute. After that, after the, the brutal murder, a teenage Camilla played by an actress named Allie McDonald’s who had. No, and hasn’t been in a ton of stuff, but she looks so much like Dakota Johnson. That was just distracting to me the whole time she, she wakes up in a sweat, like she has dreams, you know, these events are like they’re haunting her or whatever.

And we see that it’s 10 years later and then it cuts to a bus full of kids going to the center stage theater camp and they sing a huge. Production number. And I don’t even know what to say about it. It’s all about like where we’re on our way to where we belong. And it’s all about how, you know, they’re in their regular lives, their outcasts, but at theater camp, they can be themselves.

a slew of other mode. It’s an E as cheesy as that is. It’s totally true. Like these, these specialized camps, I always go, I didn’t go to a musical theater camp. I went to like, uh, it, it was like a school camp. Like you went and like took classes. Like I took like science classes. 

Todd: Oh my God, Craig, how boring? 

Craig: I, you know, so when I tell people about it, I, I always say, you know, in seventh grade, when I went to nerd camp, But that’s, that’s what it was, but it was just a bunch of nerds and we had a great time, 

Todd: of course, but this song wedgies, 

Craig: right.

But this song. So cheesy and so silly. And there’s one point where this guy, character sings this big chorus about, oh, I’m good. Hey, I’m gay. But not in that way. Music has moved me and touched me in a ways I can, sir,

hi, sleep with make me look here. It goes on for a while. Like just even that I’m gay part. And like all the kids are all singing. Like we’re all gay and different ways. So, oh. It was like up until that point, I’m like, oh my gosh, this is really cheesy. I don’t know. And then when it hit that part, I’m like, okay, like they are clearly going for the cheesy.

And so if I. I’m just going to go ahead and get on board with it and enjoy it for what it is. And ultimately I did, it’s really silly. And I have to say I was talking last night about it to my partner last night. And I just said, you know, my, my biggest complaint about the movie, I, I don’t mind at all, but it’s a musical.

I really enjoy. I just didn’t really find the songs, all that. Good. I agreed. You know, when we did, when we did Anna and the apocalypse, there’s some really 

Todd: good songs 

Craig: right after we were done, I downloaded that soundtrack. Like I listened to it, like there’s really, really catching numbers in that movie.

These are more like book numbers. They’re not really like breakaway pop hits. 

Todd: I felt like the staging was not very inspired most of the time either. You know, I don’t know. It was fun, 

Craig: you know, in this big one, this big number. And especially since it’s a lot of kids, kids. Yeah. And, and, you know, different types of kids, older kids, younger kids, and, and, you know, Now that I’m thinking about it.

I was going to say all types of kids, but I don’t really remember any brown kids. 

Todd: No, not really. There were a couple Asian kids in very white production. Very white. Yeah. 

Craig: This, uh, it’s, it’s a Canadian production, but you know, just, it, it, it did. It made me think of, you know, I was a theater kid and it was very much a community in a safe space.

And so I related to that and it’s cute. Um, but Camilla and buddy are grown up now, the buddy is the son. They’re twins. They work in the kitchen. They’re the same age as these theater kids, but they don’t attend the camp. They work at it because apparently, oh God, I’m just going to call him meatloaf.

Meatloaf runs the camp. And I guess that since their mother was killed, he’s been raising them. You 

Todd: can guess. I really think maybe he was married to her, but, but they’re not his kids because they make a point of saying, remember, he’s not our dad. 

Craig: Yeah. She asks him what this year’s show is going to be. And he kind of brushes it off and just says, it’s going to be a knockout, Broadway agents, Broadway Scouts.

We’re going to be back in New York before you know it. What is it?

Your mother, God bless her. We’ll be proud. RD is going to be the director, I guess already is like a senior camper or something. He’s played by a guy named Brandon, a wits. Um, he he’s, he’s stereotypical kind of full of himself, skeevy. Theater director, very skeevy, but they announced that the show that they’re going to be doing is the haunting of the opera.

It’s the, it’ll be, it will premiere on the 10 year anniversary of its world premiere, which is when their mother died, but already is like, this is a show about concealing yourself. And so I’m going to make this, I don’t remember. It’s so cheesy. Like I’m going to conceal the show. So one of my favorite lines is like, it’s about covering, covering up who you really are and isn’t that the scariest thing of all.

That’s why I’m going to reinvent this entire production and cover it with a postmodern face. Now who can tell me what Japanese tradition involves covering your face all in white bouquet.

It’s somebody else’s like Kabuki. So they’re going to do this show, but they’re going to do it in Kabuki, which is also hilarious because they couldn’t be more white 

Todd: nights. And th the final production, couldn’t be more like, it’s just ridiculously Oriental, like, um, appropriation, I guess you can say, like, yeah.

Craig: I mean the main, like the makeup looks good, but you’re looking at it. Like you shouldn’t be doing no

Todd: big this book, big pagoda on this stage and this font across it. That’s that old, like 1950 style Oriental font, you know? I mean, it’s just bad, but I guess that’s part of the joke. 

Craig: Yeah. I guess. But Camilla, Camilla, everybody calls her cam. So I’m going to start calling her cam cam decides that she wants to audition.

Meanwhile, we see that apparently the killer or a killer. Is there at the camp. He’s like living behind the walls. He has like this layer with all of the kids head shots on the wall, and he’s just angry all the time. And he’s like bitching, he’s a rocker killer. Like everybody else’s musical theater. And he’s like,

Todd: I think big, the first thing he says, shut your mouth.

what’s your knife and his blades across the wall. Like he’s crazy. I was like, it’s it’s this guy lived there all year long. 

Craig: And has he been there for the last 10 years? What’s going on? What is happening? Uh, so cam goes to the audition, but she’s not really allowed because she doesn’t really go to the camp.

She just works there. So the boy who’s like letting people into the auditions, his name is Joel, and he obviously has a crush on her and she convinces him to let her audition. And she’s like, I’ll owe you a favor later Blitzer. And, and he watches her from the flies, like from the catwalk and, and we get like his point of view, which is kind of leering and very much like the killer’s point of view.

So right away, he’s on your list of suspects 

Todd: and also every now and then the creepy gardener, right? Stereotypical, creepy gardener, 

Craig: the creepy Gardner, or like maintenance guy or whatever, who, there are tons of slasher, film references, references. And, and this guy is Freddy Krueger. I mean, there’s, there’s one point where he’s sweeping the stage with, you know, a big broom and like looking to the side, it looks exactly like, uh, Robert England or even west Craven.

You know, as, as Freddy Krueger is sweeping, um, and his name is Higgins. That’s my name too.

And so she does audition and she gets the part she’s double cast with this girl named Liz, who is like the theater ingenue, who everybody expected to get the part after she gets the part, she comes back to her locker in the kitchen, and somebody is vandalized to the picture of her mom, which makes her sad.

And, oh man, I don’t know. You know, we find out that the camp is going into foreclosure, like meatloaf is dealing with that. We see several scenes of him trying to get a Broadway producer on the phone. Like he apparently he has this connection to this guy from back in the day, but he’s having a really hard time getting.

A hold of him. He just keeps getting brushed off. Even though he’s already told all the campers, this guy is coming, he’s a Broadway producer. He’s going to be here to scout. And, uh, yeah. So then we just jump into the making of the play. And already the skeevy director immediately puts the move on cam and she rebuffs, but it becomes this cat and mouse thing where she keeps asking him who is going to get to play the role.

Since it’s double cast, who’s going to get to play the role on opening night because that’s the night that the Broadway guy is going to be there. And it’s obvious that the ultimatum is. It can be you, but you’re going to have to me and like, that’s that it plays out for a long time. It’s really gross. It is disgusting.

And I feel like she flirts with him and she kisses him, hoping that’ll be enough that it will be enough. And it never is. And there’s, there’s one point where I thought that she was going to do it. And I was like, this is gross. Like let’s not even make this happen in this movie. It’s gross. But at the last minute, you know, after she’s already taken her top off and he’s on top or at the last minute, she, she doesn’t do it.

But, uh, there’s, there’s, I don’t know, a good 15, 20 minutes where we just see. The, the rehearsal process preparation for the show. Yeah. The rehearsal built know building the set, making the costumes, testing the makeup or her saying. And I don’t know. I mean, if you’re a theater kid, as I am, as you are, and it was fun, but not a whole whole lot 

Todd: happens kind of foreshadow a bunch of stuff.

There’s the ghost light on the stage, which is the sort of traditional, um, little, Lamplugh just a little light bulb on a stand that, uh, you’re supposed to leave on at all times to chase the ghosts of the theater away or whatever. They’ve got that out there. There’s a kid with a Skilsaw, which I noticed they had modified.

The logo on Skilsaw, they took the S off. It just said kill saw. She noticed 

Craig: no, but was he the kid? Was it like, uh, like a circular saw and he like rears it up like leather face. That was hilarious. There’s there’s also the, the, um, costume girl, her pin cushion is a wig form, so it looks like pin head. It’s so cool.

I liked that. I liked those little throwbacks. Yep. 

Todd: I think the, the deaths start happening, um, about the time the Camry buffs already, uh, that last month. Uh, and so already kind of wanders out and, uh, uh, he’s kind of out on the stage and darkness and he hears a noise or something. I don’t know. It goes out to, to investigate and he’s by that light.

And then, uh, the. Suddenly looks up and these lights, staged lights start falling on him. That is a real danger. This, no, I was just 

Craig: gonna say the same thing. Like I think that casual viewers wouldn’t know how scary that is. Those things will kill you. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Nike is hell and they’re hanging above you all the time, just clamped on there.

And uh, and they, they start falling down on him and he’s kind of dodging them, but one of them catches us. In a very highly unprobable way. Somehow it pins him to the 

Craig: stage. Yeah. One of the clamps like goes all the way through his foot, like through his shoe, through his foot and like Pensam, which I don’t think that would probably have it, th those clamps aren’t sharp.

No. 

Todd: When you can just tell whatever the way it was like, yeah. It’s not going to happen anyway. He’s trying to get it off because he, the killer in the mask and the robot, just like from the show, the Kabuki mask is coming towards him. And he’s very, I don’t know what you say, like Freddy Kruger in his way.

Like he talks to these guys and he taunts them as he’s, he’s got witty catchphrase, as he says, as he’s coming at them. And, uh, the kid can’t ever get it off, but the killer just goes over to him and he starts pushing him backwards, which makes his foot basically snap in half

Also in probably, but whatever it tears his foot off, but then he kind of swing something around and whacks the killer. And you sorta think he’s knocked out. He crawls towards this big box. That’s marked swords that we see on the stage. There’s even a little Glint, like an animated thing. Glinted comes off of it.

Like this is his precious treasure and he runs over and opens the box, but he doesn’t do it until. Uh, and he swings around and, uh, the killer grabs him and also improbably, but whatever, just basically pries, open his mouth and puts it over the light bulb on that stand and turns the ball bond, which I guess in some way, sort of fries him.

Craig: Yeah. Electrocutes him. And then the killer screams like a rockstar and cam wakes up in the sweat again, which we have seen before. I do want to take a second, you know, in the original production, it just looks very much like Phantom of the opera and the, the Phantom or ghost or whatever you want to call him was just wearing a white mask for their Kabuki production.

They’ve altered the mask and, and, you know, made it like a Kabuki mask, but it looks really good. And the 

Todd: jaw moves. 

Craig: It’s pretty, it’s pretty menacing. Um, I thought, you know, for a masked killer, it looks pretty good. I mean, the movies, not the movies, not particularly scary, you know, what’s going to happen. You know, people are going to get picked off and it is a mystery.

Like, I didn’t know who the killer was. Like, I couldn’t figure it out. I’m like, who could it possibly be? Like, I, it’s funny that you say that because I went back and I read reviews by the way, this movie does not, is not reviewed well, that reviews, uh, range from like mildly warm to very cold. Um, But in the reviews, I was like, oh, you can see who the killer is a mile away.

I have no idea. I was surprised. 

Todd: I thought it was just really a, quite an easy process of elimination, like motivation. And who would, you know, it’s not going to be well, you know, it’s not gonna be the creepy kid. Who’s been leering on her. No, it’s not going to be the gardener. You know, these two folks are obvious, like who’s left, who would want to run around and kill people.

Who’s not getting killed. And I thought, well, I could only think of one person. Um, it sort of turned out to be, 

Craig: but in hindsight, that makes perfect sense. It just never occurred to me and really looking back and I’m like, well, you’re an idiot. You should’ve been able to figure that out, but I didn’t. 

Todd: That’s how it’s supposed to be.

Right. Yeah. If you look back and said all that’s BS, then they didn’t do a good job. The 

Craig: camp is all abuzz the next morning. And Joel, who’s crushing on cam asks her if she thinks it’s connected to her mom. Um, but at the same time, Roger meatloaf finally gets a call back from this producer who agrees to come.

So he wants to keep everything. Quiet. He doesn’t even want to report the death because it’s opening night. 

Todd: Well, I was just going to say, maybe you’re going to say this, but like he runs out and does a whole musical number where he has to confess, convince all of the entire camp. Just hold off on another day, because I just got, 

Craig: I just got the Meatloaf’s big number, right?

this girl who can’t be more than like seven is in the crowd, like the crowd parts. And she’s like, isn’t it wrong to sing and dance when someone just died?

And then meatloaf sings a very inspirational song about theater, like getting them through the hard times and like, no matter how bad a day you’ve had, when you come out of that musical performance, you feel okay. And he gets them all, you know, excited, but buddy Cam’s brother, he wants her to quit. He’s like, this is dangerous.

You know, look what happened to mom, you and me let’s just leave. And, and she agrees, but she goes to tell meatloaf that she’s going to be leaving. And, uh, he kind of talks her into it. He’s like, you know, it’s, it’s just one night, your mother would want you to do it. Um, so she agrees to stay. She tells buddy, I will leave with you.

I just have to do this tonight. Um, Joel, the guy who was crushing on. Asks her not to do it. Um, but the show must go on and the audience begins to arrive 

Todd: and a metal guy gets his song. It’s not a long song, but he’s back in the shadows. I pretty sure the title of his song is shut your face, 

Craig: hear music.

Cause I said, 

Todd: shit, his songs and his bits when he comes in are very much like, uh, they’re basically like death metal, heavy metal, death metal kind of growling, you know, screaming, screaming type stuff very much in contrast to everything else, which is very, you know, musical theater, Sondheim, Andrew Lloyd Webber type material, 

Craig: electric guitar solos.

He reminded me of the killer from summer party masker too. Just in that way. Like, like I’m a, I’m a serious rocker, 

Todd: definitely more medicine than the guy. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. That’s true that you don’t see him very much until the end in the end. You he’s more. Well, 

Todd: that’s part of the that’s part of what makes the movie not really scary, right?

It’s it’s, there’s not a lot of stalking going on. It’s just sort of a, um, you know, plot, very plot driven. This, this person’s gonna die. As prince is gonna die. This person’s going to die. Like you said, you’re you see it coming, you know, it’s going to happen. Uh, but it’s brutal though, man. It’s 

Craig: brutal. Yeah.

And there, there are funny theater gags, like, you know, this one girl is giving cam all these tips on like warming up your voice. And they’re all of the stereotypical things that we theater people really do think people out people outside of the theater world, if they knew what was going on behind the scenes, they would probably be.

He’s scratching their heads. Like what? Yeah, we’re, we’re just weird. Um, but anyway, uh, so the show starts and, and there’s an acute moment where straight Sam who is playing the mass killer goes out and does his first, uh, number. And when he comes back, he’s like so pumped after his number that he kisses David, the stage manager.

And I was like, awe, young, gay love. That’s sweet. Um, Uh, I have in my mind, I’m just going through my notes. Uh, my, my next note is Cam’s costume is very titty. 

Todd: Yeah. They knew they really took the, um, Jim Wiener ski thing to heart. That breasts are the best special effects you can have cheapest breasts or the cheapest special effects you have.

Yeah. I thought she’s going to fall out of it. 

Craig: Who’s going to fall right out. Right. She doesn’t, she’s fine. Um, we see somebody pouring red paint in a bucket for some reason. Killed me. Like she picks up a paint bucket with a handle and pours it into a different bucket with a handle

to set it up, carry style, and like they do the killer POV thing. So you’re kind of, you kind of think it’s the killer, but I was like, why would the killer do that? Like the killer is just going to kill them. It’s not the killer. It’s Liz, the other girl, the other D right. And she sets it up, but then it doesn’t happen.

Um, and then. Oh, gosh, what happens? The, uh, lose gets 

Todd: killed, right? Or no, no, no, no. It doesn’t get killed. Pulled aside, Sam, 

Craig: Sam goes backstage, right? And he finds the costumer dead and her head is full of nails. Um, like somebody has killed her with a nail gun and the killer grabs him from the back. It is it screams.

Nailed it. And then stabs Sam to death, brutally. Everything is just absolutely brutally brutal God. Um, because he’s dead, Sam misses his next stage Q, which is supposed to be like the big. Finale aria. And so Kim like scoots her way off stage, and then I didn’t know what was happening, but somebody in the killer mask stumbles on stage and it’s just kind of stumbling around and I could, I could kind of tell that it seemed like they were bound.

Like that’s what, like, like their arms were bound and they were just kind of randomly stumbling around, but this just ends up ultimately being, you know, cam finds Sam and then gosh, what happens, David? The stage manager who has said that he’ll never go on stage because he has stage fright. He has to go on stage to try to cover, keep the show going.

There’s another murder. The warmup girl gets killed in the shower. Like she, like, it’s not a shower scene. She just turns on the shower to steam the room for her voice. And then I. It’s hot enough to kill her. 

Todd: Yes. Let me turn up. Let me warm you up is what he says. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then cam finds her, um, gosh, the killer.

Oh, so then the killer gets Roger. He knocks Roger out and he ties him up and then he sings them and has a guitar solo and then cam shows up and confronts the killer. This is all in the kitchen. The killer is singing to Roger and is getting ready to kill him. But then cam shows up and confronts him and immediately takes off his mask.

And the killer is revealed. Yeah. And again, I was shocked. It’s buddy. It’s her brother. Now I didn’t want to spoil that earlier, even though that was just five minutes ago. I was surprised. And I think that the reason I was surprised now it should have been a tip off that buddy hadn’t been around very much like that.

They’re they’re twins and they work together and they were both there in the beginning scene. But once she gets involved with the musical, he pops in every once in a while, but not very much. And that should have been a clue. I think the other reason that I didn’t suspect him is because this boy, man young man is, is very handsome and like sweet looking like he’s got these baby blue eyes, curls and curls.

Yeah. And all, ultimately his story is kind of tragic. It’s sad. I mean, he’s a brutal killer, but. I felt bad for 

Todd: him. Yeah. I mean, I did too. I felt well anyway. Yeah, I did feel bad for him, but I also thought it, all of it was kind of unrealistic buddy tells, uh, CA cam, you know, he monologues basically, this is why I’m doing this.

Uh, and he says that Roger killed our mother. I saw it happen. So it turns out while cam had, as a girl wandered out onto the stage that night that her mom was murdered. Um, buddy was in the room like back in the closet. She, he saw that the murder happened and then Roger takes off his mask and a laser down.

And then Roger notices him. And Roger’s way of dealing with the situation is just to scare him. Don’t you ever tell anybody this, or I’m going to get you? And he slaps him across the face a couple times, but. I don’t know. I mean, for this kid to keep that a secret this long, just so that later on, he can go and murder a whole bunch of people plus him.

Right, right. 

Craig: She right. Cause she asked cam cam asks him, why didn’t you ever tell me? And he said, cause I was scared and I, you know, okay, I get it. You know, especially, you know, as a kid that would be terribly traumatic, but. I don’t know. I mean, this, this is par for the course for slasher films, you know, a little kid watches, their parents get brutally killed and then they become a killer themselves.

They say, come, come 

Todd: me immediately. Snap. You know, I just posted this thing on our page about the, the, what is it that psychologists look at a lot of villains from horror movies and we’re rating them as far as like, what are more true, uh, portrayals of psychopaths. And one of the things that they mentioned that articles, this is definitely not it.

Psychopaths are generally very cool, calm, collected, almost emotionally detached from what they’re doing and rational, rationalize this whole thing, kind of like Charles Manson, really. And, uh, in this case, this guy just goes completely off the wall. He’s just like, I just got all these ticks and he’s flailing around and he’s, he’s a, he’s like a whole different person now that he’s been unmasked as the killer, which 

Craig: again is not uncommon for these movies, these right.

These, these killers seem totally fine until they’re revealed. And then they’re just a hundred percent off their rocker. But, um, he, after camp or after buddy explains all that to cam, he goes to kill Roger, but Roger fights back and there’s a big fight in the kitchen. And in the fight, buddy, like pulls back to hit Roger, but in pulling back, he accidentally hits cam and realizes it.

So he turns around to make sure that she’s okay. Cause he didn’t mean to hurt her. And while he is distracted, Roger stabs him and gets him down on the ground and just stabs him brutally a bunch of times. And again, I felt bad. You know, you see this kid’s face, he’s a kid. I mean, he’s, he’s tall, you know, he’s a young man, but just these innocent eyes.

And I just, I felt bad for him, you know, I somehow wanted him to be okay, but I mean, I guess he’d killed too many people for redemption and whatever, 

Todd: but Roger’s kind of the, oh, he’s dead. 

Craig: Yeah. He is ultimately, he is. And he chases cam through the woods randomly. Um, and they, you know, we find out that the person in the killer’s mask on stage was Liz.

I guess buddy had tied her up and pushed her out on stage for unknown reasons. Um, and, uh, David, like when they goofed around on stage for a while, then they had. Offstage. And he pulls the mask off of her and it’s ruined, he realizes it’s her. He pushes her back on stage and says, just sing the aria, like just finish the show.

And she goes out and she starts singing it, that he comes out and starts singing with her and like take center stage, like he’s found his diva moment. Um, and Roger catches cam somehow they end up backstage again and he’s trying to reassure her, like, I’m not going to hurt you. I’m not going to hurt my little Broadway star.

But when she doesn’t submit, he’s like, you’re just like your God getting mad at. Um, and so she, she grabs a circular saw and she goes to saw him with it, but it’s unplugged. But then the guy Joel, who has a crush on her shows up and plugs it in. And so she saw as him, um, and, and, and killed. Um, and somehow in all this commotion, the bucket of paint gets dropped on Liz and then cam somehow stumbles on stage, Liz falls into her arms.

And so they’re just sitting there, both of them looking absolutely awful. And the janitor stands up and starts a slow clap, which leads to a standing ovation from the audience. Like this was the end of the show. And like they’re so impressed and the producer is 

Todd: impressed. I don’t know why I 

Craig: don’t either.

And then it cuts to black. Um, and then it opens up and I don’t remember if it said. How much longer, how much later it is, but it’s the opening night of the Broadway revival of the haunting of the opera. And why in the world 

Todd: would she want to participate in this again? I don’t know. 

Craig: Cause she’s going to be famous.

Todd: Todd. 

Craig: I mean, you pretty much do anything to be famous. Um, D uh, outside there’s like entertainment reporters and the main one is played by Dan levy. This would have been before all of his success, but I recognized him right away. I was like, woo. Cause he’s hilarious. I love him. Um, and then cam is in her dressing room and she’s kind of looking around like she’s nervous.

And then the killer breaks through the mirror and jumps at her, but then she like, jumpstarts awake. I mean, she wasn’t asleep, but it’s like, she imagined it. And then you just hear somebody from. Scream yell places, and then it cuts to black again. And that’s the end 

Todd: amending or something like that. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. And I expected there to be, I just had this feeling that there would be a post credit scene and there’s not really, but if you stick around until the very end, you hear the, the metal killer sing something. I couldn’t make it out. Did you listen to it? 

Todd: It was crazy. I bet it was, it was all over the place.

It was, um, it was basically a revival of all of the songs in the musical, except in his metal form. Uh, and then towards the end, he was. W, why are you still here? You’re watching the movie. Uh, how did you get this movie? I hope you didn’t pirate it pirate things wrong.

They had a lot of fun with that. Let’s put it that way. 

Craig: Yeah. That’s the thing, like it is what it is. Did I love it? No, I will say that from a filmmaking perspective, it looks good. It looks great. Like, uh, yeah. It’s it’s well-made and I’ll get, as far as the cinematography is concerned, it looks really good.

It’s cheesy, but that’s okay. You know, like to each their own, the comedy didn’t really land for me. I didn’t think it was awful. And I definitely laughed out loud at some parts, but those parts that I laughed at, I laughed at because they were so stupid, but I felt. They knew what they were doing. Well, they knew it was 

Todd: stupid.

They were going for cheesy and stupid, but the comedy still has to land. Right. Or else, it just still feels a little lame. And I was just sitting, trying to think of why didn’t I really like it had all the elements I just kept comparing. Like I walked away from Anna and the apocalypse with a big smile on my face, you know?

And this one, I was just like, eh, and I was trying to figure out why. And I think it was a couple things, like you said, the comedy just didn’t really land. I liked what they were going for. And there were some chuckling, they were even some laugh out loud moments. I thought that the, I thought that the running gag of the guy who’s trying to pretend he’s not gay was pretty funny.

And that was about it. I guess, you know, the killer was menacing and the, the, the violence and gore, it’s not just about how much blood there is, but, you know, it was just about how, how violent it is, you know, how, and this movie is really violent in those places, which. I don’t, that’s fine. You know, actually sometimes it’s that works to have that sort of that shift in tone and being, being a kind of, I mean, I would get on my soap box a little bit here.

I sometimes I think that movies don’t show violence. If they’re going to show violence, like make it real it’s don’t do anything less is runs the risk of glorifying it, you know, you don’t want this to look like, you know, you can just stab people left and right. And it doesn’t really hurt. Like this is, this is good.

It’s in your face. So I like that. But immediately because there was no suspense, you know, because like we said before, it’s just kind of advice. What should we get with a lot of slasher movies really? And the fact maybe that I had kind of guessed the killer a little early on, but that wasn’t that big of a deal.

And maybe it all just kind of came down to, they were really going for this musical horror comedy and the music just wasn’t that good. Yeah, I have to agree there. And I think that was probably the biggest let down. And so, and none of it was quite good enough to, to overcome that for me. So I just kinda, and plus some of it was really dumb.

Like I think that the bit where they were stumbling around on stage, 

Craig: oh, it went on for far 

Todd: far, it went on so long and it was really stupid and an audience’s reaction to it. Like at some point they all start to get up and go and I thought, yeah, that’s exactly what I’d be doing. Like I would have been doing that like 20 minutes ago.

And I think that was supposed to be part of the gag is that you cut back here and there’s still stumbling around on the stage all this time later, but actually it didn’t come across that way. It just came across as stupid. So yeah, also the ending kind of baffled me. What was the implication that, that critic Victor or whatever.

Was he like having some kind of thing with her. 

Craig: She was performing in the show. He was leering at her lustfully yes. And then at the end it seemed like. He was very friendly with her. Like, I don’t know. 

Todd: It makes a suggestive remark and gives a wink and stuff almost as though they had this agreement. I mean, it almost felt back to the director, you know, earlier that’s what it feels like.

And I was like, well, that’s a really weird way to end this. He just got icky all over again. And I couldn’t believe this girl who’d been through so much. It’s going to be back in this show. And she’s presumably screwing this guy who’s clearly like twice his age, her age. 

Craig: Right? Well, and there was also, somebody mentioned earlier that her mother had a bad reputation.

They said that she screwed every producer. Her, her nickname was the great white lay. Um, so I don’t know if they were insinuating that she was kind of following in her mother’s footsteps in 

Todd: that regard. I know this happens. I know it’s the, you know, it’s the cliche. I mean, not just cliche, we know it’s not as 

Craig: it is cliche, it does happen, but it’s not as common as you would think.

Like there, there are skeevy people just as there are in any work place. Um, and there are people who take it. There are who take advantage of a power dynamic, but it’s not every director. It’s not every producer I’ve worked with dozens of, uh, directors, all of whom were very fine, upstanding people that it’s a trope in cinema and it does happen, um, 

Todd: to see it twice in this movie with the same girl and especially at the end when everything’s supposed to be resolving.

So, yeah, I just, um, you know, I didn’t think it was horrible. Definitely not horrible. And like you said, very well-made, uh, from a, from a technical standpoint, but, uh, it didn’t really float my boat and I could see what. A lot of people just didn’t really care for it at all, to be 

Craig: honest. So yeah, I get it. I mean, I don’t regret watching it.

I didn’t think it was awful. I thought it was fine. It was kind of fun. It was a nice little 

Todd: meatloaf was great in it. Like he clearly had his character, he had a nailed he’s this, uh, just sort of, um, desperate kind of mouse, not mousy, but just sort of desperate guy. And he seemed very natural. Very real.

Craig: Yeah. Like, uh, you know, he, he seems, I don’t know, kind of put upon throughout most of it, but then at the end, when his true colors are revealed, he’s he’s menacing and he, he can be, and he’s a big guy and, uh, when he gets aggressive, I would be frightened. So yeah, he does a good job and, and I I’m happy to pay tribute to him because he really.

Was a very, very talented artist is, you know, when the news of his passing came out, Alan and I over dinner popped in bat out of hell. And it had probably been, God knows how long since I had actually like sat and listened to that album. You know, you hear the songs here and there. Um, but it had been a long time since I had listened to.

Album. And I just kept saying, God, this is so good. Yeah. You know, the paradise paradise by the dashboard light bat outta hell two out of three. Ain’t bad is, uh, such a good song. Uh, so, you know, we may not have agreed on everything, but, uh, I would never ever challenge him on his talent. And, um, it’s, it’s, it’s too bad that he’s gone.

But as we always say in these tributes, how amazing to leave such a legacy mean he’ll be, he’ll be remembered. Far longer than we will, 

Todd: for sure. Yeah. Well, rest in peace, meatloaf. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online. If you just Google two guys and a chainsaw podcast, and just leave us a message with what you thought of this episode, maybe your favorite meatloaf memory, um, and, uh, any requests that you would like us to do in the near future.

Just send them to our Twitter feed, or you can post them on our Facebook page or drop a comment on our website. That’s two guys that read 40 nets.com and we will get to it at some point easily until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Valentine’s Day!

In our never-ending quest to attach a horror movie to every holiday each year, we unearthed this 2001 slasher featuring an all-star cast of the hottest onscreen beauties of the day in another slick post-Scream whodunit. Be careful whose attention you spurn on this day of love!

Valentine (2001)

Episode 289, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw.  I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: Well, here we go again, Craig geeking out because it is Valentine’s day. And what do we love more than to find some, sorry, excuse for our in decisiveness, by like, oh, there’s some holiday. Let’s just go and see if there’s anything related to the holiday.

And actually also this was spurred by our loyal listener and good friend, Heather who handled. He sent us a list of Valentine’s day films. Last year, we did my bloody Valentine and that remains one of my favorite episodes because that movie, you know, we, we were even remarking at the time. How many Valentines have gone by, on this darn show?

And we haven’t done a Valentine’s day theme and my bloody Valentine is so notorious. And then we did it. We really enjoyed it a lot and had a lot to talk about. So that I’m sure just started this long tradition that we’re going to have of the next six more Valentine’s day. The movies we have to choose from, hopefully they’ll make a few more in between.

Um, but from that list, uh, Craig and I chose 2001’s, aptly titled Valentine. Now, uh, I had never even heard of this movie. It came out in 2001. So that puts it squarely around this late nineties sort of post scream, I think, uh, re fascination with mainstream slasher movies. So. This particular style of young, beautiful people in it.

And this, this, like, it’s so funny how this movie was cast. So Valentine stars, Denise Richards, Katherine Heigl, Jessica Capshaw, people who, you know, when you look at the trivia on this movie and you see who was almost cast in there, they’re all like from the same pool, right? Yeah. Like Tara raid was almost in here.

Jennifer Love Hewitt was almost Denise Richards’ character in here. So, uh, in fact, the director, uh, came off of urban legends, which had a what’s her name in it. Um, who was that woman? The Noxema girl. Rebecca Gayheart. And she also was, uh, he wanted her for this movie, but, um, that didn’t end up happening either.

So just go to that pool, find a bunch of attractive looking 20 something hot actresses at the time who had also been another slasher movies and put together this Valentine’s day themed film, and then just load it to the brim with characters. Oh my gosh. Just throw as many people as will confuse two poor guys who were trying to put on a podcast about.

Craig: So many 

Todd: characters, I like almost ran out of paper, trying to write down just the names of everybody in this. And another character would come into the screen. I’m like, oh shit. I’m like another person to remember, try to figure out their name so that we can recount all this for you guys. This movie, I had never seen it before.

Had never heard of it before, uh, was a very interesting little time capsule. How about you, Craig? Do you have any history with this at all? 

Craig: Uh, yeah, I’d heard of it and I remembered that I had seen it and I thought I remembered who the killer was, but that’s all I remembered about it. I didn’t remember anything else about the plot or anything.

I would imagine that the main draw for me for this movie was David Briana’s. First of all. Gorgeous to look at, but he got his big break on Buffy, the vampire Slayer. He was out walking his dog. And I don’t know if it was a casting person or the direct, I don’t know who it was, but somebody just saw him on the streets of LA walking his dog and said, you should come audition for this part.

And he got the role of angel on Buffy, the vampire Slayer, which was a show that I absolutely loved still love. I think it’s one of the, my favorite TV shows of all time. And then he of course, went on to star, uh, in the titular role of the spinoff angel and his career just blew up from there. And he still, he works all the time.

He’s he’s got some. Big show where he’s a big masculine guy. I think it’s called like seal team or something. I don’t know, but that was probably the draw. In addition, just to the fact that, you know, always all my life, I have kept up with horror and this was kind of an exciting time, um, in horror because it w screamed through it back into the main stream.

And so we were getting these big theatrical releases. And you’re right. They’re all very similar in that. They’re all very polished and I’m full of gorgeous people. If you were young and watching television and movies, uh, in the late nineties, early aughts, you’re going to recognize pretty much everybody in this movie from something.

And you know, many of them are still very much in the public eye, but here they’re all young and gorgeous. Um, I don’t know that Denise Richards has ever looked better. I mean, she’s just stunning. Uh, in this movie, you 

Todd: watch this for David Borealis. I was, I would have watched this for Denise Richards. I had a huge, huge crush on her at this time.

I mean, probably pretty much ever since Starship troopers. And this is a, this is a pre-boot job, Denise Richards, which I mean no judgment there, but, uh, right. I do, I do have my preferences. So anyway. Yeah. Uh, she, you know, Denise Richards. The best actress on the planet, quite honestly she’s but, uh, and that’s pretty obvious in this movie, but I sure enjoyed watching her.

Craig: I don’t blame you at all. I mean, she looks amazing. Um, but she’s just, she only exists in the movie to be a sex pot, you know, like, yeah. And, and not even, you know this. Okay. So the director of the movie, like you said, had done, uh, urban legends, but he wanted to do like an old school, eighties slasher. He wanted it to be a throwback and, uh, in many ways that very much is it has a lot of the elements.

And 80 slasher. You’ve got a backstory where something terrible happens and is an excellent setup for revenge. And then that’s what it becomes basically is a, a revenge slasher with the masked killer. And, you know, it’s a mystery who is the killer. It was initially intended to be much like many of our favorite slashers from the seventies and eighties, very gory and lots of really violent kills.

And they filmed them that way. But then, uh, it wasn’t, I think that they had to trim a little bit to appease the MPA MPA, but it wasn’t even really so much that even when the NPAA was appeased, um, the studio requested that they cut more of the violence and gore, at least in part in response. To the Columbine tragedy.

I think that they were concerned about too much on screen violence, uh, in the wake of that. So they toned it down a little bit, which is kind of unfortunate and suppo you know, there are a lot of cut scenes, deleted scenes. I think that some of them are available on some release. I didn’t look for them. I read about them.

And it just sounds like mostly, they were just extended a little bit more, you know, you saw a little bit more of the carnage. It didn’t really seem like we were missing a whole lot, but that he was going for this type of thing. And that you can tell that that’s what he was going for. It’s just a little bit disappointing that it got neutered a little bit, but you know, such as the industry, it happens all the time and, and ultimately what we’re left with.

I don’t really know how, I don’t know what to say about it. Um, there it’s fine. Like there’s nothing wrong with it. Aside from maybe the fact that I do think that there are too many characters and. I think maybe it tries a little bit too hard with the red herrings and some of the red herrings. I didn’t even get like, there, there was one red herring in particular.

I’m like, who is that guy? And they keep, they keep throwing suspicion on him, but I don’t have any idea who he is. And then you never really find out he was just some rando that they thought maybe did it. Like, 

Todd: I don’t know. Yeah. I agree with you. I, I finished watching it and I was just kinda trying to wrap my mind around why I was so underwhelmed by it.

I thought was I just not in the mood for it? You know, what was it about this movie that I just felt so blah about? Because like you said, it pretty much checks all the box. It does. Yeah. And it 

Craig: looks 

Todd: good. It’s just kind of. I don’t know. I don’t want to say boring, but maybe having so many characters in it, you never really latched on to any one particular person.

It doesn’t really focus around any one particular person. And I remember in a previous episode you had kind of pointed out something to me that was a bit of a revelation. You were like, you know what? This movie did not have a protagonist. It just bounced between all these people. And now I’m not going to say that this movie doesn’t have a protagonist, but it’s pretty damn close because it’s like, it’s the story of Jason Shelly, Kate page, Adam Lily, detective Vaughn, Campbell, Dorothy, Kim.

The step-mom who’s in there for like 10 seconds, Gary, Jeremy Melton, max, and Amy. And like all of these people have their moment, you know, the, I, I didn’t just list off five main characters and a bunch of extras. Like all of these people are kind of popping in and out throughout the whole movie. And so it’s hard to kind of maintain a focus on anything besides the plot.

And then the plot itself, like you said, it’s just a revenge plot from the very beginning. There’s a, there’s a sort of what you might call a flashback sequence to many years ago. I actually 

Craig: liked the, yeah, I liked this. The setup was good, 

Todd: right. Because it was kind of cool how it’s like, you sort of know who the killer is more or less, but you don’t know who he is.

You can kind of guess like, sort of rooted in history after science intro scene. Oh, clearly this is the person getting revenge on all these people, but now this person’s an adult. And so you don’t know. Guy it is, or if there’s a weird twist where there’s some girl who has some reason, you know, to do it.

So it was a cool setup, even though 

Craig: I thought that I knew who the killer was going in, it still kept me guessing there, there were parts where I was unsure. Ultimately I remembered correctly, but it did, uh, keep me guessing. But I do like, um, that, that set up scene. It feels very, very much like something we would have gotten the eighties it’s set at like a middle school dance.

Um, and there’s this young boy who’s supposed to be like this big nerd, I guess like the school nerd. And, uh, I think they may be, I don’t know. I didn’t read anything about it. I think maybe they put some prosthetic, uh, teeth on him to kind of make his teeth look a little bit janky. Um, other than that, He was a nice looking kid.

Yeah. 

Todd: Like all the nerds back 

Craig: in high school. Yeah. I CA I kind of didn’t believe that he would be getting as much flack as he was the kid you feel for him. It’s sweet because he’s at this dance by himself and he’s going up to all of these girls and asking them to dance, which having been an awkward adolescent and teenager, I know what a nightmare that is like, it’s, it takes so much courage just to do that, to put yourself out there and to ask these pretty girls to dance.

And he does, he asks what I can only assume are like the popular girls. And it turns out to be all of our main girls. Later in the story, but not only do they reject him, they’re really mean about it. Like most of them. Yeah. I remember the girl who grows up to be Denise Richards and they paint up this young girl to look like Denise Richards.

It’s funny. 

Todd: I thought that was basically her biker. He’s going around to all of these like child actors. And then one of them is like, Denise. But with pigtails or something, that’s a bit of a shock. 

Craig: Uh, I don’t know. Anyway, they’re there mean dance with me in your dreams, loser, would you dance with me? I’d rather be boiled on the, all of them are mean except for one that, you know, the one who looks nice and she’s wearing a nice dress and, um, her name’s Kate, and instead of rejecting him outright, she just says maybe later, which almost like he gets so happy about like, oh, maybe later, like, uh, I felt so bad for this kid I did too.

And then the last girl that he asks is a girl who’s sitting by herself in the bleachers. And she’s a pudgy girl. I mean, she’s. Again, she, she looks fine. Um, but she’s a little bit heavier than the other girls and you know, clearly not as possible, just having 

Todd: enough to tease. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. And she’s reluctant, but she’s alone too.

So she says, yes. And then I don’t know if we see them dancing, but the next thing we see is them under the bleachers, making out a group of boys, catches them and starts making fun of them. And I guess her being desperate. To not be teased, which I also understand. She claims that he, the boy attacked her.

And so this group of boys, you know, grabs the nerdy boy and pulls him out and strips all of his clothes off, down to his underwear right here in front of everybody, and then beats the crap out of him. Um, and, and is often the case. Types of movies. I really felt bad for this kid. And like, yeah, you get your revenge they’re mean they deserve 

it.

Todd: Yeah. It’s a mean kid thing to do. And 

Craig: then it cuts to the future and we figure out right away that, uh, one of those girls from the dance, her name is Shelly. She’s played by a very young Katherine Heigl, who is a very outspoken actress and that’s gotten her in trouble. Um, sometimes she’s been called difficult to work with.

She has said, uh, that she regrets making this movie. She hates it. She thinks it’s stupid. Um, she didn’t read the whole script. She only read the part that she was in, which was just the first few pages or something. And, um, she was really disappointed with the end product, whatever, but she’s, she’s a med student and she’s out on a date with this annoying guy named Jason.

And he. Douchey. And he always refers to himself in the third person. Right. Okay. Well, thank you, Jason was nice to meet you. What? That’s it? What’s it. Do 

Todd: I get a kiss? Excuse 

Craig: me. Let’s just a little fricking kiss. Oh God. Look this hard to get shit. Doesn’t play with Jason. You know, Jason, I’m not a doctor yet, but it’s my considered opinion.

You seek psychiatric help soon.

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: he, God, he’s such a douche. And so she calls off the date early, I think, and goes back to her med school and is going to be she’s working on this cadaver, getting ready to disect, to cadaver. Where’s the, where’s the noise. Yeah. You know, you 

Todd: really struck out on this date when your date would rather go back and cut open cadavers at like midnight, as opposed to go home with you when you’re done.

Oh 

Craig: God. He, but he was really, really awful. I don’t blame her at all. 

Todd: I don’t 

Craig: either. I was just cut up a cadaver. I was 

Todd: just like, man, she works late. Yeah. 

Craig: True. And that’s it like, uh, so she’s there and then she hears the. And she looks around and there are a couple of jump scares. The director has said in hindsight, that he wished that he hadn’t done so many cheap scares, uh, and, and made some of the attempts at humor that they made.

Um, he wished they had been a little bit more straightforward about it, but you know, it, it is what it is, but she gets chased around by somebody dressed in all black and wearing, I guess what I would just what it’s described in everything that I read as a cherub mask. I was thinking since it’s Valentine’s day it’s Cupid.

Yeah. But whatever. I mean, it’s just a mask, 

Todd: I guess Cupid’s a cherub. Yeah. 

Craig: And he, and he chases her around with a knife and eventually she ends up in another part of the morgue where there are a lot of body bags laid out on. Uh, rolling tables and the killer comes in and starts going through each body bag.

And at first he starts unzipping them and then he just starts going and stabbing everyone. And he finally gets to live the last one or the second to last one or something. He opens it up and she’s in there. She has hidden in there and he slit her throat. And this is one of the scenes that was cut pretty extensively, I guess, before we were supposed to see her neck get sliced and the blood splurt out.

And it’s really mostly just suggested now, but it sets the tone for what the movie is going to be. You know, they get a slasher kill in there. So we know that this is how it’s gonna play out. And then it introduces us to the characters that we’re going to be spending. The most time with, and it’s the remaining girls.

There’s Kate played by Marley Shelton, who I very much recognized. And I realized after I looked her up, that what I recognized her from, she plays the sheriff in scream four and scream 20, 22. And she is kind of like you said, it, it really is an ensemble piece, but if there’s a central character that follows it’s her, and then Denise Richards plays page, she’s the sex pot, one Jessica Coffield who worked a lot and still does very recognizable face.

She’s a very funny actress. Um, I remember her as Reese. Witherspoon’s one of Reese. Witherspoon’s two ditzy friends in the, um, legally blonde movies. Um, she’s like the wild funny one. Dorothy played by Jessica Capshaw who I think has done. Or maybe it’s still on Grey’s anatomy. I think she plays a Dorothy.

She was the overweight one. She’s not overweight anymore. And that’s it. Right? It’s those four main girls and all of them, except page the hottest. Have boyfriends that we need also and, you know, and have to keep track, 

Todd: oh my God, it’s a nightmare. Well, she also received a Valentine, uh, shortly before, uh, 

Craig: um, the first one Katherine Heigl did.

Todd: Yeah. Shelley’s character. She received one of those Valentines. It was, uh, you know, you open it up and then there’s a saying in it, that’s actually kind of twisted and they’re interactive Valentines, you know, they’re the, the really expensive ones from hallmark where you gotta like a pull tab or something.

And, uh, I don’t remember what this one was just like 

Craig: ideal. The, the journey of love is an arduous Trek. My love grows for you as you bleed from your neck,

Todd: which, you know, actually, um, I thought that, uh, her kill. Was the most suspenseful, one of the whole film. I actually, unless I’m mistaken, I thought it was kind of a disappointment that what I considered one of the most compelling of the stocking scenes was pretty much done at the beginning. 

Craig: And they’re all kind of the same because they project themselves so much, like, you know, oh, okay.

She’s going to die. Like they’re going to get it. Yeah. Yeah. As soon as the scene starts, when somebody is going to be killed, you know, they’re going to be killed. So you’re just waiting for it to happen. So it’s not particularly suspenseful in that way. Yeah. I don’t really even know. Gosh, how did we 

Todd: go through every little, 

Craig: because there are so many characters.

Okay. So, uh, Kate there speed dating. Well, Kate has like. Not a boyfriend, but a guy that she still like, they’re on again, off again. And that’s David Boriana us and his name is Adam. Um, and the reason that they’re not together now, she says is because he has a drinking problem. And when he drinks, he, she doesn’t, she doesn’t get into any specifics.

Um, but she says that he scares her when he drinks and he’s still around. Like they all go to the first girl’s funeral and he’s there and they talk and they’re still very friendly. There’s still clearly chemistry between them. And, and he clearly, I mean, it’s not hidden at all. He wants to still be with her.

And he’s, he claims that he’s cleaned up, that he’s been sober for three weeks or something, any, I think he asks her out and she kind of, she says, no. Um, but, uh, she also says, I’ll call you so it’s not like she’s completely closed off to it. She’s just a little. Hesitant. 

Todd: I mean, you sort of feel like she really still wants him.

She, you know, doing the she’s doing what she kind of feels is right. Or whatever. And I felt like his alcoholism was treated almost comically in this. Like, like you said, we don’t really see much evidence of it until later, but it’s all, it’s like, you know, they talk at the funeral and then they go back to the car and she looks in his, in his car and she sees like, uh, a newspaper, she picks it up and underneath it’s a tequila bottle.

And she’s like, what is that? And he’s like, oh, we’ll, uh, you know, it was just for a friend. I was going to give it to a friend, like, 

Craig: right. He’s like my buddy got a promotion. So I just got it for him as it gets where it could be true. I don’t know. Cause he seems like a really nice guy. 

Todd: He seems like the nicest guy in this whole 

Craig: show.

Yeah, for sure. And so, you know, I thought maybe he really is trying and as the movie goes on, they spend more time together. And they kind of go slow, but, uh, it seems like they’re working their way back together and he’s really nice. They keep getting Valentines. Um, Dorothy. Gets one, her says, roses are red.

Violets are blue. They’ll need dental records to identify you Paige and Lily lived together, I think. And so they just get one together, uh, and it says TIS a well-known fact that beauty is skin deep, savor the taste. You are what you eat, which is very sloppy. Poetry 

Todd: know? Yeah, that’s true. They don’t actually die for meeting anything, but it’s included.

There’s like some chocolates included with that, like a heart shaped box of chocolates and they open it up and they start eating the chocolates and then realize their maggots crawling out of them. And I love, I mean, more than anything for a theme movie, it doesn’t just touch on Ballantine states. This whole film is dripping with Valentines.

It’s 

Craig: Val. Yeah. Valentine’s dance. Valentine’s party. Yeah. I’ll all kinds of stuff. And it’s fun. 

Todd: I mean, you know, I liked that bit of it. I really did. You’re getting, gotta go all the way with this sort of thing. You know, the thing Valentine, all of the Valentines are very clearly signed J M with two initials.

So that’s something that kind of keeps you guessing. And I think it was kind of interesting how the characters themselves are also guessing Paige and Lily sit there and go J M who could that be? It’s like Jason Moore. No, James Madison. No. And like the list off like 10 people they know with, with the additionals jam.

And I’m like, man, these girls get around. That was one of the silly or red herrings. 

Craig: You come up with it. It’s uh, Jeremy, it’s the kid, Jeremy Melton. It’s it’s the kid from the dance. They do figure that. Once they all get called in to meet with the detective. Who’s the smarmy guy who shows up at the 

Todd: funeral as detectives always say, oh my 

Craig: God, to interrogate people at a funeral, always.

But, um, he tells them that the parents of the first female victim got a sympathy card that said, like it was a regular symphony card on the outside. But then when it opened it, when they opened it up just written in big red letters, it just said too bad, so sad. And it was signed Jeremy Melton, not just jam.

So they’re pretty sure that has something to do with him. Why would Jeremy Milton one hurt you? Well, he attacked me at a dance in junior high and he got sent to reform school because of it that would explain why he threatened you, who do go after Shelley while your friends? No, but he is, he was first sent off to reform school.

And then I think he did some time, like in an institution or something, and then he fell off the map. Like they have no idea what happened to him. They have no record of him for years. And they immediately jumped to the conclusion that he must have had a bunch of plastic surgery to look totally different.

Right. So that he could come back and nobody would recognize him. And he couldn’t exact his revenge, the. Detective is very he’s skeptical of the boyfriends. Kate is like, well, it can’t be Adam. I know him. She’s like, I know I’ve known him for a long time and she has, and she’s like, you know, I know what his parents do.

I know where he’s from. I know everything about him. It can’t be him. And, um, they’re all a little suspicious of Dorothy’s boyfriend because he’s just this random stranger that she met at yoga class. And then he immediately came to her door and gave her some sob story about how he couldn’t pay his rent.

So she moves him into her house. Like she doesn’t even know his last name. Granted he’s really good looking. So. I get it, but 

Todd: might as well, 

Craig: they’re all suspicious of 

Todd: him. Would there kind of comes a point where the girls are openly, like sort of accusing each other, like of harboring, you know, the guy, you know, I think it’s a little later in the movie, but it’s interesting how during the film, they’re all openly discussing this throughout, and that might be something about, what’s a little annoying about the red herring is they’re kind of constantly throwing this in your face that it could be any one of these guys, which also made me wonder, could it be.

Right. Could it have been one of those girls who had a reason to be upset? And I was actually waiting for the guys to get bumped off as well. I figured, well, most of these guys that were either being introduced to, or have not yet been introduced to throughout the movie must have had something to do with beating this kid up.

Right. And so I thought, okay, it’s going to be like a combination, like kill the girls and kill the guys until the. You know, didn’t refuse you is left. And then, you know, who knows what he’s going to do with her, but I mean, it’s, it’s sort of a pattern that’s projected, but then it sort of turns out, you know, spoiler alert, the guys really don’t get bumped off.

And, and that was surprising to me. Why would this kid who comes back for revenge? What a kill the girls who refused him as opposed to the dudes who were responsible for kicking his ass? 

Craig: Yeah, I guess that was a major criticism of the film and it makes sense. It didn’t even cross my mind, I guess I just wasn’t putting that much thought into it, but apparently at some point there was a scene either written or filmed that just didn’t make it into, um, the movie that explained that at least one of those guys had died prior to the events of the movie under mysterious circumstances.

So maybe, I don’t know. The killer is going after them too. I just didn’t 

Todd: get to them in time or 

Craig: whatever. Yeah. So everybody, nobody knows who it is. They go to this, um, art exhibit, it’s this weird like video screen art exhibit, very pretentious LA. And it’s being thrown by this guy named max he’s the artist.

He is played by Johnny Whitworth, who was the main guy in empire records. I mean, these, these are just the hot people of the moment and, and he’s a big douche bag, but he’s with Lily. And so they are in this exhibit, like making out, like there’s tons of people there at this exhibit, except for when. There shouldn’t be like, like, like there’s tons and tons of people.

And then all of a sudden there’s nobody around. Right. She gets mad because she’s making out with her boyfriend and this other girl shows up and is watching and she notices and she’s like, get out of here. And he’s like, oh, I invited her to come. Like, he thought you was going to like, have a threesome in his art exhibit with all these people around or something.

And so she gets mad and she leaves, but she gets lost in the exhibit. It’s like a amaze, like a maze of video screens. And not only that, but like the panels of the walls, she doesn’t see it, it keeps happening behind her, but they keep moving. Like, I think somebody boxing her in there. Um, it’s very, eventually, eventually she gets like to a dead end and she turns around and she sees the Cherokee killer standing at the other end of the passageway that she’s in.

And he shoots her. With a bow and arrow. Okay. Why not? 

Todd: I thought that was cool. 

Craig: He shoots her several times in the abdomen with a bow and arrow, and it strikes her with such force that it pushes her through the video screen out a door, onto a ledge over the railing and her body falls several stories conveniently into a dumpster that then slams closed 

Todd: so nobody can find her.

Craig: Right. And I guess that, uh, th this actress, Jessica Coffield, uh, sustained injuries, um, filming this death, I guess that she was wearing some sort of protective vest, but the arrows still hit her with such force that they knocked the wind out of her. And then she had two. Hit her back up against that rail and lean back over it.

And I guess she got all bruised up there. It sounds like, I don’t know about there a stunt supervisor 

Todd: really shooting arrows at her by God. I 

Craig: don’t know. They’re shooting something at her, but yeah. So, so she’s gone, but conveniently, she was supposed to be leaving anyway for a business trip the next day.

Anyway. So the fact that she’s gone doesn’t worry anybody cause she was supposed to be gone. I, I, in the back of my mind, I don’t even know how many days this is supposed to span, frankly, just a couple, two or three, I think. But if there I thought, okay, fine. It makes sense that she’s away on business, but if there’s potentially like a murderer out there, like wouldn’t somebody call her, like they have cell phones, they have, you know, big, clunky, flip phones.

Why don’t, why doesn’t anybody call her, but they’re not worried 

Todd: about it. So nobody, he knows that she has been killed the detective kind of calls them back in and assembles them all to discuss this a little bit more. One of the things that kind of bothered me about this movie and made it a little boring is I felt that everything was a little slow.

And I mean, like literally the scenes were slow, the pacing of one person talking to another, especially in these groups, when you have the five girls or whatever, sitting in the police station with this guy, like it’s like 10 minutes. That could have been three. I just, I was just like, well talk already.

Okay. Like finish your thing, stop giving a look like, oh my God. So that was, that was annoying. And as soon as I noticed that, and that was at specially in this detective scene, I realized the whole movie is like that. The editing on the dialogue scenes is really. Really slow. It 

Craig: felt long. It’s not a long movie.

It’s only an hour and a half ish, but it felt long. And because there were so many characters, it took me, it seemed like forever to watch it. So like I, I’m sitting here watching it on one computer screen, typing my notes on another computer screen. My partner is sitting behind me doing a puzzle. And at one point I checked the time stamp, um, on the movie and I’m like, I, I said, oh my God, this movie is so long.

It’s only an hour and a half, and I’ve already been watching it for two weeks. 

Todd: That’s how it felt. I mean, I thought at one point I thought, are they really stretching it for time? Are they choosing these dialogue scenes to just fill in a couple extra seconds here and there to just stretch it for time? It was just.

Arduous. 

Craig: And they think like that’s, cause that’s the thing like th there’s only one lead. It’s the Jeremy what’s his, but Mount lead, Jeremy Melton lead, but then there’s these gosh, darn red herrings. So at the party, the exhibit party, uh, Paige and Kate walk in and they noticed this good-looking guy looking at them and we see the shot of him.

It’s the creepy dude. That the first girl was out with in that early scene. 

Todd: James and Jason likes you. Yeah. Jason. 

Craig: Yeah. The talked about himself in the third person and his name is Jason Marquette, J M. And they see him and he’s like smiling at Kate, like making eyes at her. But then when he sees Denise Richards, he looks at her and like glares at her and turns around and walks away.

What’s why 

Todd: you made the wrong choice there. I have to say. And then 

Craig: they, well, but I just didn’t understand, like, who is this? Are we supposed to be suspicious of this guy? Just because he has the same initials and like, why is he looking at Kate with googly eyes? And then not, it’s not like he just looked at Denise Richards and like rolled his eyes, like, oh, not good enough for me.

Like, he looked at her with disdain, like, Ugh, I hate you and then walks away. So the. Detective is investigating that guy. They’re trying to find that guy. Then also Kate has this fricking creepy ass neighbor that only speaks to her in rhyme. And she tells her boyfriend, Adam, that like her panties have gone missing and like weird stuff.

And then very soon after that we see a killer POV coming into Kate’s apartment. The kill, the creepy neighbor is in there putting on her underwear and stockings. And, uh, the killer kills him brutally with an iron scary girl like that kill you don’t see a lot, but it was really violent. And so then I’m thinking, oh, well the killer has to be Adam because he was the only one who knew about the creepy neighbor, but then.

Kate comes home like right after this happens. And Adam’s like standing outside her apartment, like knocking on the door, like he’s trying to get in. And I thought, okay, that could be a ruse, but then she goes upstairs and she opens her bathroom door and she’s frightened because pages in there and I’m like, well, maybe Paige did it.

Like just so many red herrings. I, I, I had no idea. That’s 

Todd: right. And then I don’t know if this was supposed to mean anything, but there’s sort of a meaningless bit where the police detective is coming on to Denise Richards character page. He has a moment with her where he asked her to, to stand back. So, Paige, what are we going to do about 

Craig: this?

I thought that was your job. You were the detective, right? I’m not talking about the case page. Don’t be coy. I’m talking about this, this tension, the tension sexual tension. Let’s be Frank detective Vaughn, please remove your hand from my thigh. All right. What would you like me to put it? Okay. 

Todd: How about up your ass?

And I was thinking, do these two, have a history, you know, is there a thing here that, that we’re about? That’s about to be revealed, but no, right. There’s nothing. It’s weird. 

Craig: Kind of drops every man that she interrupt interacts with, it just seems like they just expect her to just drop her panties. The second they say a word to her, which I don’t understand, like, she’s way out of all of their leagues.

She’s pretty much out of anybody’s league. Really. I guess all of that kind of leads up to the Valentine’s party. Right. Yes. 

Todd: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s just, there’s a bunch of weird shit that happens that you kinda end up scratching your head by the ad. Like Dorothy and Campbell have a, have a, you know, like a little confrontation because we’re supposed to suspect Campbell.

And then he gives her a cherub necklace and they kind of make 

Craig: out that’s after. Okay. So. She’s desperately trying to hang on to him. Like, that’s a point of contention. Like she’s mad at her other friends because she thinks that they just don’t want her to be happy or something when really they’re just concerned about her.

Um, so for Valentine’s day, she gives him an expensive watch and he’s. Yeah. And he says that he doesn’t have anything for her, but then they start making out and it cuts to them in bed. And it’s obvious that like, he couldn’t get it up for her. It’s just, which is stupid. Um, so she goes to take a shower and he comes in, he opens the shower and he’s like, oh, I do have something for you.

And it’s this cherub, 

Todd: Netflix, this was so slow this whole like, oh God, they should’ve just cut all that out. They should’ve, it was dumb. It was like 15 minutes of nothing between these two characters. 

Craig: W w they both shower. And then like, he, uh, goes downstairs now, as it turns out, we hear him, we overhear him having a phone conversation, and he’s trying, he’s trying to scan that he is a bad guy.

He’s a, he’s a grifter. And, um, he’s trying to, uh, transfer all of her rich father’s funds out. The F the father’s accounts into his own account. And I guess his plan is just to do that and then take off. But, uh, she calls him on one of their like house phones and asks him, she says, you know, the hot water is out.

Will you go light the pilot light? And so he goes down there and like, oh, okay, well, here’s where what’s his name gets killed. And he does. An ax to the back, um, while his back is turned. And so I guess, you know, there there’s one suspect down, I suppose. 

Todd: Yeah. I suppose. And I guess that’s the thing, but you know, does the killer kill these two guys?

Because they’re just a, just happened to be in his way at the time, because there’s really no motivation ultimately for him to kill scary, Gary, the neighbor or this guy, none of them were associated with what happened at the dance. Right? I mean, yeah, it was confusing. I thought their desks themselves were kind of red herrings.

Like, Ooh, why would the killer be motivated to kill these guys too? Uh, as it turned out, I’m still not really 

Craig: sure I’m not either. And I’m not really sure why the killer. Yeah, especially this one. Why was he even there and why bother? Why would he bother with this guy? 

Todd: Why was he there? Especially, he was like hanging out in their basement.

Right? That’s a big, 

Craig: and then there’s the party, the parties at Northeast house. Cause she’s apparently the richest one, well altered dad’s house, but, uh, and it’s a huge Valentine’s day party, you know, decorated like crazy. I mean, it looks, it looks great. It looks fun. It looks like a movie party, you know, um, people Dorothy’s bummed out because Campbell hasn’t shown up.

Um, and at this point I was really starting as like. I was starting to get suspicious of Dorothy. Yeah, me too. I thought that that would kind of make sense because ultimately she was kind of humiliated at the dance too. Or even if she wasn’t so much humiliated, it, it, it certainly spoiled her night. You know, she was getting some, 

Todd: I was actually thinking that maybe she had, uh, you know, ended up later on in, in the intervening time sort of having a relationship with this boy and, or on his behalf, you know, taking revenge or working together.

I thought we were going to have like a scream moment there at the Edward turned out to be a couple that took, took everybody out. But, uh, yeah, 

Craig: so I was suspicious of her and like, you know, her, her sad act at the party, I was like, you know, maybe. Maybe it is kind of an act. Maybe she figured out what he was doing.

And so she took care of him. Um, but now she has to pretend to be sad because he’s not there. Whatever Adam shows up to meet Kate there, as they had agreed, Paige meets the guy you, you mentioned, and I cut you off earlier much earlier in the movie, they sh Paige and Kate had gone on a speed dating thing.

And there had been one guy that page had been kind of interested in and he shows up at the party and she’s dancing by herself. Very seductively and oh man, God, she was so hot. Huh. Uh, but he comes up and starts dancing with her and immediately as his hands, all over her, which I thought was really gross, but he says, I, you know, I’d really like to take you upstairs.

And she’s like, okay. And she’s like, but why? And he’s like, well, I got a surprise for you. I want to show you something. 

Todd: Uh, yeah. So original. 

Craig: So she goes upstairs with him and they’re like standing there kissing a little bit. And then she’s like, I thought you had a surprise for him. And he’s like, I do. And she’s like, okay, well what is it?

So he steps back and in the least sexy way possible strips down and drops his pants and just stands there. And she’s like, you brought me up here to show me your penis. And he’s like, yeah. And then they just stand there. And he’s like, what are you waiting for? And he’s like, what are you talking about?

He’s like WEX it like what? The, like, nobody says that, but as it turns out, it’s a setup because she plays him, she starts acting seductive and she tells him to finish undressing and lay down on the bed and he does, and she kind of gets on top of him. And then she pulls out these scarves. I don’t even know where they came from and she, she ties them up to the bed.

At which point, if you hadn’t realized already, you realize now that the bed is completely surrounded in candles. And so she blinds holds in this. Do you still want me to wax it? He’s like, yeah. So she takes a candle and pours hot wax on his Dick and leaves him 

Todd: tied up in the bed. Don’t you don’t you love these movie parties in these giant mansion type houses where just some random bedroom you could walk into conveniently as candles lit all around the bed.

And there’s like a room with a hot tub that nobody’s in, you know, I mean, just like all this stuff. 

Craig: It’s so fun. This other girl who looks very, oh gosh, I don’t know. Preppy, I guess would be the right word, uh, shows up and she’s pissed off because she’s Campbell’s ex I guess she was the last rich girl that he tried to scam.

Um, and she sees Dorothy and she’s like, that’s my necklace. He stole it along with all my other stuff and they throw her out, but she immediately comes back in through another door page, goes off by herself because she’s not having fun. Max, the artists. Tells Kay that Lily never showed up in LA. I mean, it’s just it’s 

Todd: plot.

It’s just like plot of plot. Who is it? I can’t remember who it was. Who stumbled into the man-cave, which again is total it’s 

Craig: Ruthie Ruthie. Is this girl that Campbell’s last mark. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. Her. She was funny. She was very uptight, but she goes through his stuff and takes his watch, which, you know, do it.

I mean, if he scammed you and took your stuff, take you whatever you can get. Um, but she then sees the killer dragging the dead made. And it’s so funny because of course you don’t expect to see a killer and a body. So she’s like, oh geez, who are you supposed to be? 

Todd: Right. Oh 

Craig: God. But then she soon realizes that, uh, it’s a killer with a knife and the killer starts chasing her.

And I thought that this scene was pretty suspenseful. 

Yeah. 

Todd: This one wasn’t bad. Actually this was, she 

Craig: runs and is being chased and she eventually hides in a sauna and she hides underneath the slatted bench. And so you get one of those cool, like slats of light across her face as she’s. Cowering behind there and the killer looks in the window, but doesn’t see her and then kind of goes away, but then pops back in, like maybe he missed her or something, but then he leaves.

But then she realized that she crawls further under the bench and she finds Campbell’s body under there. And I don’t know, she comes out the killer finds or. Smashes her through a shower door and then smashes her face into the shards of glass. Um, at the, 

Todd: there are two shards sticking out, but I thought for sure, it’s going to be two eyes in there, but, uh, no, it wasn’t a full cheat movie, I guess, after this, um, Adam, guzzles a bunch of wine.

It gets weird. And this is again why I say like his alcoholism was treated really hilariously because it’s like he downs. I don’t know. I don’t really, he, maybe he had a bottle who knows, but suddenly he’s like, 

Craig: Ooh, Ooh. 

Todd: I’m like, oh, this is such a movie thing. And it doesn’t make 

Craig: Guinea since why? Like, it’s not like something set him off, like.

At this particular moment fell off the wagon, like tarred 

Todd: on the ground. Yeah. It just, it is just so contrived. I thought it was dumb. I didn’t think his acting was particularly great in the scene either, but yeah, so he gets pissed off and runs away. 

Craig: The page gets, um, she’s in the hot tub by herself in a bathing suit.

She looks fantastic. She hears something. And then a rose appears on the side of the hot tub. And at first she thinks, you know, she’s like, Ooh, to someone would be my Valentine, but then she gets mad. I mean, I have to 

Todd: say this, this killing scene was extremely elaborate. I mean, 

Craig: frankly, it was stupid. 

Todd: It’s so stupid, but it was cool.

Like, and, and you remember, she was w as a girl, she was a person who told the boy I’d rather be boiled alive. And so her fate is to be chucked into this hot tub. And then the lid of the hot tub, which is. Like plexiglass on the top gets locked down over her. So she’s like not really drowning, cause there’s a little air in there, but she’s trying to kind of remain above the water and then he’s got a drill, huge, enormous drill he brought along.

I mean, how could you possibly plan all this out? Let alone know that page is going to be alone in a hot tub in the middle of this giant party anyway. Yeah. He goes in and he drills a bunch of holes through the top, which I’m thinking, well, at least she’s got some air now, but you know, he’s trying to drill her through it and she’s screaming.

And then finally he opens it back up again and just shucks the drill in there. Uh, which of course electrocutes her, which. I didn’t see that bit coming. I just thought she’d get drilled the desk eventually, but no. And the hot tub, blood water turns red, which I did see coming. Yeah. Well, and 

Craig: this as stupid as it is, like where did this drill with a three foot long bit come from 

Todd: with an extension cord, you know, to reach as far as it 

Craig: was stupid, but it was fun to watch.

It was, it was cool. Denise Richards, stunt double got injured filming the, the hot tub stuff. Seriously. They’re there. Their stunt coordinator has some explaining to do. Then Dorothy and Kate have kind of a fight. Dorothy says, you know, Adam could be the killer and Kate’s like, uh, what? Uh, well maybe Campbell’s the killer.

And then Dorothy’s like, you all just don’t want me to be happy because I’m just the fat one. And that’s all you ever thought of me. And she’s like, you know what? You all, and then she storms off and we don’t see her again for a while. 

Todd: No. Well, the party empties really quickly, because as soon as that drill was tossed into the hot tub, apparently circuits, breakers don’t work well in this house or something.

Cause the entire house, uh, all of the electricity goes out. And so then that causes everybody to immediately leave, like right away, like within five minutes, there’s just a few people left in the house. Conveniently all of our main characters of womb. There aren’t 

Craig: many left here. There’s not you’re right.

Goes out into the backyard and tries to call the detective because the detective is supposed to be on the way to the party, but he hasn’t shown up. And so she calls his cell phone, but she hears it ringing. So she follows and finds the phone and it’s like right next to this coy pond. And she looks in the koi pond.

And there’s this note that she had given Adam earlier, why would this be there? And she’s already had a confrontation with Adam about his drinking. She’s pissed that he’s been drinking, then the detective’s head floats up. And so she screams. And then it’s the classic eighties slasher where the final girl runs around and finds all the bodies.

Todd: I called that 

Craig: too. And really, really the only people left are Adam and Dorothy and Dorothy. Is Mia and Adam, all of a sudden is acting super creepy. Like what, why? Like all of a sudden he’s very menacing. Like he’s like lurking in the shadows and he’s talking to her in a way that you could, if there weren’t a killer around, you might just think, why are you being weird?

But because there is a killer around you, like you’re giving off like major killer vibes, bro. Like, and he is like talking about how he just wants to be with her. And she’s, she tries to get away from him and she runs away from him. And while she kicks him in the nuts first, and then she runs away from him and he’s chasing her, I guess we’re supposed to think.

It’s just because he’s drunk. Like he’s making poor choices, I guess. But eventually, uh, she obviously thinks it’s him with good reason. That note is completely unexplained. He’s chasing around, chasing around, chasing her around. She eventually ends up like at the top of a staircase. And there’s a door directly in front of her.

And I think that she pulls open the door and the cherub killer lunges out at her, like tackles her and they both go rolling down the stairs. Um, and they’re both apparently stunned for a moment she starts to get up and the cherub killer sits bolt upright. And all of a sudden you hear a bunch of gunshots and you see the chaired killer shot like four times right in the chest.

And you look over and add. Has a gun and he’s basically like it’s over and he comforts her and he goes, and he takes the mask off and it’s Dorothy. And I was like, I knew it. I knew it was her. 

Todd: I knew it wasn’t well, 

Craig: I was trying to set up a big surprise 

Todd: Tosh. Oh yeah. And I also was like, okay, it’s over now?

Craig: No, I was still, I, I just thought that was too easy. Like, it was just too easy. Like there was no big fight. Um, and uh, Kate’s like, why would she do it? And Adam’s like, oh, can someone is that lonely? 

Todd: And that angry? 

Craig: I can learn to hide it, but inside it never dies. Just stays there. Eats away at you 

Todd: until one day you have to do something.

Craig: Oh, my God, we left out a huge plot point. We sure 

Todd: did. 

Craig: Um, all throughout the whole movie, every time the killer kills somebody, blood runs out of the nose of the mask. It’s important. And we forgot to tell it 

Todd: is important and it matches the same. The same thing happened to the kid when he was young. That’s how we know it’s definitely that kid, right.

Because yeah, he bleeds. W what was it? Does he bleed what he’s horny? What, what, what was the word though? Those pleats happen when there’s something, but yeah, I mean, that was a key element that really made me realize. Pretty early on like, well, it can’t be anybody, but that boy, like, it can’t be any of the girls, even when I thought, well, maybe it is one of the girls, I’m like, no, cause this nose bleed thing that, um, that mask is apparently really tight fitting in order for, for it to bleed out.

But like, that’s a key element. And I knew like, probably about halfway through the movie, I said, all right, we’re going to have a moment where the killer is going to be revealed because there’s going to be some sort of face off or something. And his nose starts bleeding as he is, as Adam is caressing her and saying these, these things, uh, suddenly you see some blood dripping on her face and you, the camera pans up and his nose is bleeding.

And I was like, yep. I thought so. 

Craig: And then it cuts to black and credits. Yeah. I, I remember. That it was him. But then I, honestly, as the movie went on, I started to question myself because especially in that scene where he was acting so strangely and I still don’t understand why he got drunk. Like if you’re carrying out that, I mean, I guess if you’re on a mission, he’s crazy, but yeah, if you’re on a mission, why would you get drunk?

I, whatever. Um, but I do kind of like. That he gets away with it. I do too at first. And I totally didn’t put this together until I read about it when he’s being very menacing, but she’s, she’s trying not to be too obvious that she’s scared of him. He asks her to dance and they do, there’s no music, but they do dance.

Um, and then as he’s holding her, he’s got like her head to his chest. He says, I love you, Kate. I always have. So he did events, you know, when he asked her to dance in there, a kid, she said maybe later he did eventually get his dance. And presumably they ended up together, I guess. Yeah. 

Todd: I mean the ending, like that aspect of the ending, I really liked, you know, it was a little, I mean, it’s not unusual for the killer to get away, but it is kind of satisfying in an, in a sick way that this guy got his revenge followed through with it and managed to get the girl.

And I mean, there was something kind of obviously poetic about the fact that, uh, they ended up together at the end and something really twisted about the fact that she may never know. Right, right. Yeah. I, I, when he said, and I’ve all loved you and I always will. I thought that was going to be her moment where she looked up and said, wait a minute.

I was so waiting for that to happen. And it went right by her. And I was like, well, there’s no question now. Right. So 

Craig: yeah. I mean, I. I the, the, the truth of the matter is I didn’t like it very much. And I thought that I would, and, you know, when I told some people we were doing this, people were excited about it.

And so I don’t want to, the acting is okay. You know, I think that it was limited by some things like, for example, David Borealis was only available to shoot for 10 days. And so there was only so much they could do with him and he wanted to play. The masked killer, but his schedule just didn’t allow for it.

And so the stunt man who does play the mass killer is noticeably smaller than him. And like you said, the pacing, it just in addition to the fact that there are so many characters, like, honestly it’s an hour and a half. It took me probably well over two hours to watch it because I kept having to pause it, to try to figure out who people were.

I’m going back to the IMDV page. And I’m looking at their headshots, which are of course, current headshots. So they’re older now and the girls, it’s not like they all look the same, but you know, they’re, they’re mostly. Pretty blondish girls. It was, it was frustrating in that way. All of the red herrings were frustrating.

The kills were, were pretty good. I would have preferred to see them in their original form. It’s not a bad movie. There’s nothing wrong with it. And it’s, it’s a fun movie for Valentine’s day. If you’re a fan of horror and you want to watch a Valentine’s movie on Valentine’s day, watch this. It’s not bad.

And it’s got a major Valentine vibe to it. I mean, it really centers around the holiday. Um, and so that was fun. There are movies that we watch sometimes that I walk away and I’m angry that I spent the time watching it. I’m not angry that I spent the time watching it, but I certainly never need to see it again.

Todd: Yeah. I mean, again, I thought this was going to be a bit of a time capsule for us at the very least. And it was in a way. But I just, I just think there were too many characters. There was really no strong focus thread throughout the movie because we had to bounce back and forth between all these people.

A lot of the stuff was a little implausible, you know, with what the killer was. Some of it’s even still head scratching when we go back and analyze it, like, why did he kill him? Why did he kill that person? He killed the made like why just to be killed. Yeah. I didn’t understand that either. And then like, there’s kind of a big moment between a, was it Dorothy and her step-mom and her dad.

Which, yeah, there must’ve been stuff cut out there because I thought that was going to be a, some kind of point, you know, but there’s nothing. And the whole movie, it just felt like meandered on with all this interrelationship kind of 

Craig: stuff. Well, there are so many scenes like that, like that the whole scene with Paige and the detective that was entirely unnecessary, it added nothing to the plot.

It was really just kind of gross. Like what was the point? There was no point to it. I don’t know. It kind of did feel like they were padding for time, which is 

Todd: so, so, you know, I’ve had some interesting kills, uh, Denise Richards was happy to see her in a beautiful for a while. That was really nice. But yeah, at the end of the day, I felt the same way as you and I wasn’t exactly sure why, but I think I’ve kind of parsed it out.

I think we’ve kind of parsed it out. Yeah. Well, thank you again for the suggestion, Heather, and thank you all happy Valentine’s day to you folks. I hope you had a good one. We love you all. This is our balance side to you. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. We have more surprises coming your way.

Particularly towards the beginning of March, I’ll be watching for something special there. Share this podcast out there in the ether and find us online by Googling two guys and a chainsaw podcast. Leave us a message. Share some love with us as well. We want to accept your Valentines no matter how much they might be.

The more macabre the better, really. Until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. .

One of the most difficult deaths we’ve had to come to terms with this year has been long-time American TV and film icon, Betty White. And wouldn’t you know it, she too has a horror film to her name.

Lake Placid may not be the best movie in the world, but actually it’s not too bad, and we’re lucky that it happens to include one of the incomparable Betty White’s most memorable performances on the silver screen. Enjoy our tribute episode to the world’s favorite golden girl.

Lake Placid ()

Episode 288, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig

Todd: and I’m Todd.

Craig: I have to tell you, this is a day that I knew would come. And, uh, somehow in the back of my mind, I really hoped that by some miracle wouldn’t 

Todd: scaring us, Greg you’re scaring us. But, 

Craig: uh, I know, well, I mean, it’s, I don’t think that this will come as a shock to anybody.

Um, sadly we ended 2021, which was a rough year anyway. Um, but we ended it by losing just the. Incomparable. Amazing, brilliant. Betty White, 

Todd: just an American icon. Ah, 

Craig: gee, you know, I think she’s a global icon at this point. And for so many reasons, really, probably the longest spanning career of just about.

Figure and entertainment period ever groundbreaking in so many ways really broke through the glass ceiling for women throughout her career. She started in radio, uh, then, you know, then when a TV happened, you know, she was right there and, uh, early in her career, she was doing. Live on air television for five hours a day, six days a week.

It’s nuts. Unscripted live television, five hours a day, six days a week. I mean, it’s, it’s almost unfathomable. Nobody does. I can’t think of anybody today who could do that with comfort and success, not outside 

Todd: of the home shopping network. Right. Right. 

Craig: And just went on to have an amazing career, primarily as an actress, but also as a producer, um, host of her own self-titled show very early on before women were doing such things, you know, when she had her own show, the Betty White show.

Talk slash variety type show. She had complete creative control, which again was almost unheard of. You know, she hired a female writers and producers. At one point, she had an African-American performer on her show, a regular. On her show, he was a dancer and, um, she got all kinds of criticism networks and, and television stations, particularly in the south threatened to whole airings of her show.

And her response was too bad deal with it. And in response, instead of taking this performer, I don’t have his name in front of me. I apologize. But instead of. Reducing his role or taking him off altogether. She gave him more screen time and response and faced some backlash for it. Went on to do, you know, amazing television.

You know, she worked with Carol Burnett. She really, I think, made a name for her. Uh, on the Mary Tyler Moore show where she played kind of a Vixen Sue Ellen Nevins, I think was her name on that show. Then what I fell in love with her through was the golden girls. The golden girls was this sitcom about four elderly women that are.

Perception of age has changed so dramatically because when this show premiered, these women were in their fifties, there are shows about women in their fifties today they’ll look very different than the 

Todd: golden girls. So true, 

Craig: but the golden girls, I mean, it was hilarious. I came home from school. Every day.

And from four o’clock to five, o’clock watched the golden girls in syndication every day after school for years, I still watch that show. It’s hilarious. It broke ground in many ways. It dealt with, um, gay marriage and interracial relationships. And these women, you know, they were older and they were widowed or divorced, but they still had active social, romantic and sexual lives.

It was the kind of thing that. Television had never seen before. And it was wildly popular. And after that she continued to work. Um, she worked in, in film lake Placid lake Placid, by the way,

Todd: the, 

Craig: yeah, uh, you know, I, I believe this was her only horror film. Came out in 1999 and she had done some film work before, but this, I think really kind of reinvigorated her film career and she went on to do dozens more films throughout her career. She continued to work in TV. There was a huge online campaign to get her to host Saturday night live, which she did.

And she was just brilliant on. The people who work on Saturday night live said that she was just one of the most gracious and talented hosts that they had ever worked with. I think it was Seth Meyers who said that in all his years on Saturday night live, she was one of, if not, the only host who stayed for the after party.

And stayed for the whole thing. And she was probably in her nineties at that point. And he said that she just, she ordered a hotdog and a vodka,

and she just stayed and spoke to everybody who wanted to talk to her. And by all accounts, she was just a lovely person. And in addition to her work in the entertainment industry, which is groundbreaking and substantial, she was just a wonderful. Human being. She was charitable and kind, and, uh, she was an amazing advocate for animals.

She was a lover of all animals and worked extensively with PETA and. Other animal charities. And in the wake of her death, there was a, a Betty White challenge to donate, um, to animal rescues and humane societies. And it, millions of dollars were generated in her name. And I almost get choked. Talking about, or just because she is so cemented in my brain, uh, you know, I just, I have such, such admiration for her.

It’s such a bitter irony that she passed just days before her hundredth birthday. It’s crazy. Right. And you know, there was a huge tribute planned for her on her hundredth birthday, which they went ahead with and, and there are more attributes in the works. And if anybody deserves them, It’s her and as sad as it is that she’s gone, what an amazing legacy like you, you just can’t help, but celebrate that legacy.

We’re so lucky to have had her. I could go on 

Todd: all day. Any of this is hyperbole, really? You know, I mean, now we tend to pile on, you know, The good things about people when they pass, especially famous people that touch us in some way, but she was pretty unique. I would consider her like the great uniter, you know, like there’s nobody who doesn’t love this woman.

I think. I mean, she just, 

Craig: there’s something wrong with you, if you 

Todd: really, and it’s true and it’s not because she just slunk around and was kind in the background. It didn’t really speak her mind or just, you know, smiled and nodded and agreed with everything. She was her own person. As, as a kid growing up, my most of my experience with Betty White, certainly my first experience with Betty.

Why was, I guess the same as yours on the golden girls, right. Also loved that show. Everybody loved that show. It was funny. You’re right. It was groundbreaking. And her character on that show. Was interesting rose, right? Because she, um, I read about this. I read that when they were, when they were putting the show together and they approached her and asked her if she would like to play this character, she initially refused because the way she read it, she thought this was written and going to be written as kind of a dumb, a dumb woman, kind of a naive, stupid kind of dumb woman.

And she didn’t want to. That way, but they persuaded her and she said, okay, but we’re not going to play it that way. And what kind of comes out of golden girls you realize is, yeah, she’s kind of a little naive. She’s kind of a. Simpler in her thoughts and stuff, but she’s not dumb. She’s very interesting, complicated character.

I mean, as complicated as you can get in a sitcom, right? You don’t get terribly deep and it said calm, but, but she didn’t play it stupid. And I feel like that is sort of the reputation that she had for a whole generation of people. Was this character, you know, so here she is, she’s playing this kind and nice grandmotherly type person that just is sweet and maybe a little naive, but everybody’s going to love her because of it.

Obviously not who she was in real life. But when we see actors on the screen, we tend to imagine them with their roles, you know, and I think this movie like. Was one of the first role she had where itchy surprise people. She surprised people who didn’t know any better because in this movie she’s like the opposite of that.

She’s this strong foul mouth woman who curses and swears and that in itself, Charming. Whoa, here’s the sweet rose, Betty White. Like we just always imagine she’s this way and would never imagine she would play this role where she curses and swears and you know, I mean, it’s silly, but it’s true. People always talk about, and I think this has been bandied about in the media as well, like, uh, oh, your careers had such a resurgence, right?

Oh. You know, people are more interested in you now. You know, you’re all over the internet and there memes made about you and stuff. Don’t you think that’s great. And she would respond and say I’ve been working like every day for most of my life, since I was a young kid, like from her perspective. And really from the perspective of history, her career never stopped.

It kept going, it just like 

Craig: expand like 

Todd: 80, right. It just, our appreciation of her grew and deepened, I think. And I think. That is why we, she kind of stands the test of time. Really. She never got irrelevant now. She’s just always interesting and always fun. And always there. That is, has been a source of comfort.

What a nice role model, you know, a person to look to. Her career bore that out, her personal life, bore that out and we all loved her for it. And if anything, again, I feels like hyperbole, but if anything, like there’s some good, there’s some hope for humanity at a time when we’re all just kind of down on it right now that there’s a person like this that does exist, that almost everybody universally can.

This is what a good person looks like, right? This is something to aspire to, or at least this is something to admire. And 

Craig: there are so many things to admire about her. And you’re right. This movie was surprising and it is so fun to see her because it to see her in something like this, because just her, I think the air that she had about her, she just seemed very kind and friendly.

And, and she was all of those things to see her here, you know, spewing, profanity. Well, they just roll off of her tongue and it’s just absolutely hilarious. She wasn’t entirely unlike that either. If you watch, if you watch her in interviews like late night talk show interviews, she’s just sharp as a knife, like so witty and so funny.

And she was. At all above cracking or raunchy, Joe, we’re playing with innuendo. And if you see behind the scenes footage of her from the golden girls or hot in Cleveland, there, there are great, like behind the scene stuff that you can see about hot and Cleveland, Cleveland outtakes on YouTube and stuff.

And she did. I mean, she, she. And she could cuss it up with the best of them and did, but again, that’s just something that’s endearing, you know, it makes her feel real and she’s not just a front, she’s not just a character. She’s a real 

Todd: person. So when you can relate to some of the fields approachable, 

Craig: one of the other things that I love about her, and I mean, it has really nothing to do with her career, but her love for her husband.

She was married three times. Her first, uh, marriage was very short-lived, uh, less than a year, I think. And her second marriage was, um, brief as well, a couple of years, but then through her extensive work in game shows, she met who would become. Her third husband, Alan Ludden. And, uh, they just had such a wonderful love story.

He pursued her relentlessly, um, and she was reluctant I’m I’m saying this from memory. So I apologize if there are any incorrect things that I’m saying here, but I think that she was a little reluctant because he. Some thing of a ladies, man. And she knew that also they lived on opposite coasts and neither of them wanted to relocate.

So though he was pursuing. Relentlessly. She, she held off for a very long time, but eventually he broke her down and they were married and it was just this wonderful. They were married for decades. He died, I think, in the late eighties. And she never remarried and said that she was never interested in pursuing romantic relationships after the death of her husband, he was.

For life. And she talked about how, as you know, she was approaching a hundred years of life. Um, she, she said that she loved life and that she would embrace life for as long as she could, but there was also always a part of her who was looking forward to being reunited with her husband. So when she passed her assistant, who was very, very close to her said that, uh, you know, we can, we can take comfort in the fact that.

Reunited with the love of her life, which is just, uh, you need some heartwarming content and your life, everyone. 

Todd: So especially on a horror podcast. 

Craig: And we will talk about this movie because it’s a good movie and I want to talk about it. It’s a good thing. It’s short.

Todd: We’re we’re a quarter deep into our podcast time. It’s okay. This is our, if you had noticed it, Betty White tribute episode. Yeah. Well, the thing you can’t deny, really, I think about this movie is yes, she did have a long career. It spanned a lot of things and so she never became irrelevant or off the scene and then suddenly popped in.

Right. But she did. You know, for example, this movie, this was not an indie film, right? This is a big budget, mainstream film, lots of stars, heavily promoted, released into an very interesting year for movies, but she was playing a character in here that most of us had never seen before. Right. And so it drew a lot of attention to her and I.

Uh, it was a joke for, uh, for a lot of us. Like, even if, maybe you didn’t like this movie, you’d be like, but you wouldn’t believe this Betty White is cursing up a storm minute. Right. And I do think it marked a bit of a turning point for her career where we’re more people were aware of this side of her and she could kind of, um, capitalize on that a little bit, or people would ask her to do kind of a little more edgy stuff or be a silly, you know, mostly in comedies and stuff like that.

Yeah. And so there, that has also been. I think for those of us who grew up with rose, you know, and that’s really all the only way we knew her to sort of see her do this as well. And it’s very memorable stuff. And so I think with the resurgence of the internet, which likes to hyper analyze everything and milk everything in pop culture for all it’s worth, I feel like she did really thrive in this era where a lot of stars don’t in that she was very.

Memeable relatable kind of, kind of career that she had, you know, in person. And so everybody just loves to love her. And so I do think that that’s true. And this movie is definitely was for sure a turning point, um, in kind of bringing out that other aspect of career, her career at which it might’ve gone that way anyway, but you know what.

Yeah, 

Craig: this movie, it’s, it’s a giant crocodile movie. And it’s funny because I was reading the, the giant crocodile has less than four minutes of screen time. Um, but you know, it’s a crocodile movie. So in some ways, you know, the crocodiles kind of the star of the movie, it only gets four minutes. I bet Betty White maybe has five minutes of screen time, but it doesn’t matter.

She’s not she’s she’s. Player she’s in, I think three or four scenes, short scenes, but she’s whole Larry is like, just laugh out loud. Hilarious. You know, I, to be honest with you, I, I saw this movie when it came out and I’ve seen it since then, but it’s been a very long time, but I honestly was really not looking forward to revisiting it, except for.

I could watch her scenes all day, every day, but I kind of had it in my mind that it was a really schlocky B type movie. Um, and, and I had it in my mind that it wasn’t gonna be good and that I was going to think it was stupid. And I wasn’t going to enjoy it though. I remembered enjoying it at the time, going back and watching it.

This is such an interesting movie to me because I feel like they took like this. This seems like the creative process. Like let’s take one of the most obvious. Plots for a, B-movie a giant crocodile somewhere where it’s not supposed to be okay, that’s it. Easy enough. Now let’s throw a lot of money and incredible talent at it and see what happens.

Everybody involved in this has done great stuff. The director, Steve miner, directed house warlock, Halloween H2O, Friday, the 13th, two, and three and many other. Yeah, not just horror movies that I’ve really enjoyed. Oh no, no. I only highlighted the horror ones, but lots of stuff. The writer, David E. Kelley is a huge writer and producer in Hollywood and has been for decades.

Um, he did, he wrote Doogie Howser MD. Um, he’s had big success recently with big little lies and nine perfect strangers. He wrote for ally McBeal. I mean, Huge stuff. And then like, you already mentioned big stars now. I wouldn’t say necessarily like a list blockbuster stars, but totally. You know, these are people who were working, especially in the nineties, Bridget Fonda.

You know, off of the success of single white female, she was a big name and singles. Well, bill, 

Todd: Pohlman not many years after independence day. Right? 

Craig: Right. Uh, all of her plat got even some of the smaller characters there. There’s a deputy, deputy Sharon gayer played by Mel Meredith Salinger, who wasn’t a huge star, but I had such a crush on her when I was a teenager.

Cause she was like, Cute girl in one of the Cory’s movies, um, dream, a little dream, which not a great movie, but I loved it. And I loved her 

Todd: Brendan and Gleason. Uh, who’s the, you know, I mean, you might know him as a, was it mad eye moody and the Harry Potter movies more recently, but he’s been in a billion 

Craig: things.

Right. And Betty White. And so. You end up with is of pretty typical B monster movie, but it’s well shot. I mean, it’s really pretty to look at it’s well, acted. If I had any complaint, that’s really not a complaint, but it’s something that I feel like I need to at least mention it. The movie is super. Witty like, yeah.

Todd: It’s annoyingly witty at times. 

Craig: Every line is a zinger. Yeah, 

Todd: it is. And you know how, I think the reason you bring it up is at times like that goes a little too far, right. You’re just groaning and laughing and it takes you out of it. Like, you know, you’re watching a Hollywood 

Craig: movie, right? I mean, the lines are funny.

There are, there are great quotable lines. Um, but it’s every, I mean, every line, just every character is so witty and sharp and just so ready with a clever comeback at every turn. It’s a little unrealistic, but whatever, I mean, I don’t remember if it was the writer, the director, one of them worked on, um, Dawson’s Creek.

And that was a big criticism of Dawson’s Creek, too. That those kids were far too sophisticated in the way that they talked and far too witty. And, and I, I see. Here, but whatever. I mean, it’s funny. It is a funny movie and something that shocked me this time around and reading about it. Cause I had never read about it before.

There is some creature work done by Stan Winston. I mean, seriously, could you have gotten more talented people to work on this movie? Um, but there’s also a lot of CGI, which I had forgotten and it’s good. It looks better than a lot of the CGI today. It’s crazy. It looks real. Most of 

Todd: the time they did a great job with the CGI.

And at this time of the, you have the, I mean, a lot of CGI looked like crap around this time, around this era. So, uh, it’s true. Well, the mummy came out the same year. Oh God man. So much came out this year. This was the year of the matrix and fight club and the mummy and all this stuff. So it’s kind of crazy.

What this movie was up against, but also it kind of came in the wake of a bunch of movies that were similar to it. As I recall, like Anaconda deep blue sea, the Relic, this movie, I think we’re all around the same time where we were getting a little bit of these like monster movies were kind of Godzilla that, that really crappy Godzilla, I think came out this year or maybe the year before it at the same time.

I feel like this movie. Totally is odd because you don’t typically expect to see it’s gory. First of all, it’s pretty gory, especially for a big budget Hollywood movie with all these stars in it. And at times it feels like a comedy because they’re clever, witty things being settled a lot. But then at times it feels like a straight out horror movie and bloody and gory.

And at other times it seems like, like an environmental tale or something. I mean, it’s just, it just bounces back and forth so much between, sometimes in the same scene between Sirius and comedy and a adventure story and horror. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that. I mean, it makes it an interesting.

But it might’ve worked against it a little bit. It’s just different from a lot of the other similar movies of that era, maybe with the exception of the Relic, I felt like it was trying to appeal to a lot of different audiences and maybe it lost a few people on the way. Cause I don’t think it was well reviewed at the time.

It did okay. At the box office. But you know, I don’t think it was like you said, my memory of this film and I did see it before was that it was schlocky and silly and I didn’t have much memory of it. I thought. Pretty not memorable. Um, this time around, I felt, Hmm. I got a little bored and I think, uh, I thought it was a little silly at times and just a little too unrealistic at times for my mind.

Um, I mean the, the bottom line is it’s a big alligator in a lake and the only reason this alligator is going to be a danger to you is if you get. If you’re, if you’re not in a lake, you’re going to be fine. And it’s as quiet lake that apparently not a lot of people go to just some scientists who are researching in this case, starting out it’s, uh, Brendan Gleeson’s character, sheriff, Hank Keogh, and some researcher he’s taken out there to check out beaver dam.

They’re 

Craig: tagging, they’re 

Todd: tagging beavers, tagging beavers. Yeah. That’s a joke. Right. And Dale Wally’s while he’s on the. Uh, and this guy’s in the diving, you know, in the lake tagging beavers. Now, one thing about diving in a lake is that it’s hard to see that you don’t see very much in front of you. So that kind of works in this movie’s advantage, but he’s tagging beavers and he’s inside this beaver hut and, uh, he gets pulled out of it, uh, by this.

Unseen creature and dragged around. Sheriff sees all this happen. And then, uh, he gets to the boat and he pulls him out of the water. And it’s pretty shocking. I mean, this is a first five minutes of the movie. He pulls half of his body out of the water. I mean, guts are dripping. He pulls into the boat. You see the whole thing.

I was kind of shocked. 

Craig: I meet you. Cause 

Todd: I had forgotten who. And so, uh, you know, that kind of kicks things off. And then, uh, you jumped to the natural history museum. Was that in New York city? I think, I 

Craig: don’t know, but Bridget Fonda works there. Her name is Kelly and she gets immediately dumped by. Her boyfriend.

And she finds out that one of her friends has been one of her friends in a tiny bit part is Mariska Hargitay. Like I’m watching this. I’m like, wait, is that Mariska Harget day? Yeah. And she’s in it for like 10 seconds. Nope. Where would I know her from a criminal minds or. Shows she is the daughter of, uh, Jane Mansfield, I think.

Oh no kidding. And it’s silly. Bridget. Fonda’s character is so silly. Like she is this super uptight. It’s not a nice word. Not one that I throw around a lot, but bitch, like, she’s just like a cold. 

Todd: Yeah. Annoying, annoying as hell, which graded on me for awhile. Maybe the whole movie. Like I just don’t think she’s a very relatable likable character.

I’m not saying that she has to be, but I just, God, I just wanted her to get her. About halfway through. 

Craig: Well, they are setting her, uh, I mean, and, and I don’t have a problem with this relate, like she is. So over the top, in the beginning with the things that she says, it is a character, she plays it. Well, she’s a good actress.

She sells it, but they’re setting her up for a character arc and you can see it in every element of her character. In the beginning of the movie, she wears. Tight fitting business attire. She has her hair pulled up really tight, just like everything about her is tight. And as the movie progresses and as she slowly kind of loosens up and comes into herself, she loses that edge and you even see it visually, she starts wearing her hair down.

She starts wearing far more comfortable clothes, 

Todd: so transparent though, you know, and that’s what 

Craig: I’m afraid. I can’t let you go with this. Sheriff Kia said I could unfortunately, fish and game supersedes the sheriff. Why do you have to supersede? Maybe I might be, look, this isn’t some kind of fact-finding expedition.

Yes. I know that it’s not a science trip. Could you be a little more condescending? Cause I’m not real great with subtlety. Something in that like killed somebody. Right? I appreciate. You’re trying to help. I’m really glad that you brought. Yeah, that’s better, man. It’s not going to you call me ma’am one more time.

I’ll Sue you and with today’s laws, it’s 

Todd: possible. She’s good. It’s so written it’s to Hollywood and, and also, I didn’t even think it was that believable. I didn’t think her character, I really had a hard time finding that defining moment in the movie where suddenly she decided to stop being so. You know, figuratively, literally let her hair down.

When was that? I don’t remember. She, 

Craig: so she gets sent by her ex-boyfriend slash boss because they found a tooth in that guy’s body. And so she gets, because she’s a paleontologist, she gets sent to look. The tooth and she does, and she thinks it’s reptilian, but she also views the body. And, you know, the body’s clearly been bitten in half.

And so this has to be some kind of big predator. And so she kind of joins the investigation and she and Hank are joined by Jack played by bill Pullman, who is a fish and game. Um, and these three kind of become the central three and then are joined by a Oliver Platt’s character in a while. But in the beginning, you know, Bridget Fonda’s introduction to Hank and Jack, you know, she’s condescending, she’s, you know, making jabs at their community at their intelligent about the locals.

I mean, she’s, she’s the city. It. And they’re the country folk, you know? Um, and they play that up. As the movie progresses and this isn’t like super shoved in your face, but she and Jack bill Pullman have these moments together where they talk and they’re obviously flirting. Um, it’s one of those, oh, we hate each other.

We’re flirting. It’s, it’s stupid in Hollywood, but it’s kind of funny. And I think that it’s in those moments that you start to see a little bit more of the softer side of her. And at one point they’re talking and he says to her, you’re having the best time of your life. Aren’t you? And she says, what? No, that’s terrible.

People are dying. How could I. KA could you tell? And, and she, she actually says, you know, that all of her life she’s witnessed things from the outside, and this is the first time that she’s ever had. Uh, part of something and to find a little bit of purpose and to feel like she’s a part of something and to kind of be building some relationships.

Um, I think that that softens her up a little bit and it it’s silly. I mean, it’s, it’s such a big transformation, but honestly, by the end of the movie, I thought she was cute and. 

Todd: If I were to rewrite it, if I would presume to rewrite this movie, I would from the beginning, make her enthusiastic about this, but incredibly naive she’s in paleontology.

Who like hates nature. Yeah. It’s so weird. Right? She gets out there, but she’s bitching about mosquitoes and oh, I need to camp and all this stuff. I’m like, oh, come on. Really? I do not believe that whatsoever. I would have said, oh, she should have jumped at the chance to get out there and be overeager, get in everybody’s way and also be a bit of a fish out of water.

Because even though she’s enthusiastic for the job, she’s never actually literally had that experience before, you know, that. I think how I would have played it would have been a little more believable than what we ended up with, which I just thought was silly. You know, that 

Craig: that’s true. But that role is already filled by Oliver, Platt Oliver, Platt plays.

This guy named Hector sear sire. He is the one. He comes out of nowhere. She knows who he is randomly because he’s done some stuff with her museum or something. And he’s this eccentric millionaire. Who’s fascinated with crocodiles because he’s a mythology professor and she explains it. Point. That he thinks that crocodiles are like divine, like, like gods.

And of course the country boys, you know, roll their eyes and thinks that silly. And she’s like, I know, I know it seems silly, but really historically, you know, all of these different cultures from places in Asia to other parts of the world have in some capacity worship. Crocodiles or other large, uh, reptiles.

She says it at some point. I have no idea if this is true, but historically crocodiles have been worshiped more than Jesus Christ. Now I have, again, I have no idea if that’s true, but I do know that what she’s saying about. Other cultures viewing these creatures as divine creatures. That is true. So he he’s the one who’s overly enthusiastic, who is reckless in his pursuit.

So I don’t know. He’s like 

Todd: super silly too though. I mean, first of all, I don’t know where he heard about this. W w where did he hear about. Do we ever get an explanation of why he suddenly swoops in on an airplane lands in the middle of this lake and then inserts himself into the situation? 

Craig: No, no. He just found out about it somehow.

And he, before anybody says crocodile, like that’s how they figure out that that’s what it is. Cause he shows up and she’s like, wait a second. He’s super into crocodiles 

Todd: thing. He’s into crocodiles. Right? He’s like part Steve, when part Indiana Jones, you know, part MacGyver Pryor part wise ass it’s. So over the top, it is, it was kind of silly.

Again, it just felt really scripted and really annoying, but 

Craig: knowing as he is, and he is super annoying because he’s super, super witty. And very condescending and they put up with him for way too long. Well, and, and he and sheriff Hank are set up as foils and they’re constantly taking jabs at one another and finding themselves in conflict.

It’s kind of cute. Like at the end, it kind of seems like. They’ve developed kind of a love, hate kind of relationship. 

Todd: Like, well, he does know what he’s talking about, so we’re going to cry in here anyway, and then, oh, you know, he’s, he saved her ass a couple times. 

Craig: Right? Exactly. And I don’t hate that. It’s kind of cute and sweet, but I mean the whole movie really just comes down to, they’re looking for.

This crocodile, there are a couple of jokes that I just really want to highlight because they kill me every time. The first time that, um, Kelly, Hank and Jack go out on the lake together, they see something weird in the water and they pull up alongside it and Hank pulls it up and it’s like an elk head and he swings it over and drops it in the boat right at Kelly’s feet.

And she screams. And slaps him. And he’s like, what are you doing? It’s just like, you threw it at me. He’s like, I just put it down and she’s like, no, you threw it at me. And she slaps him again. Oh. So funny. And then later they are on another. Scouting expedition when a deputy’s head, uh, the crocodile jumps out of the water and just bites this guy’s head off.

And later they’re walking around in the forest and she steps on the stick, which launches this deputy’s head at her. I just died. She’s like, just keep breathing. I’m being very calm. I am composed of the second time I’ve been hit with a separate. Oh, just please. Uh, I don’t know. I don’t even know if other people will find that as funny as I did, but what’s funny.

Oh, she’s just so high-strung, it’s, it’s 

Todd: hilarious. I think actually Jack and Hanks’ character in this movie. Are pretty real. I felt like they were the two most real characters in this movie. They seem like just two guys who were, got to do a job. This is what they do. And I liked their dynamic from the very beginning.

I liked the way they played it. It wasn’t crazy. It wasn’t over the top. It wasn’t ultra heroic or anything like that. They just seem like the guys who would be in my town who have these jobs, you know, and they’re just doing their job and they are, and they’re just sort of tolerated. All these crazy people who are jumping in here who are more or less getting in the way of their do of them doing their job.

And so, like the other kind of ridiculous thing about is why do they continue to tolerate it for so long when they could, they have the authority to just boot these people? Well, 

Craig: they, I mean, they even talk about it. I mean, it’s both of them hate Hector, but Kelly keeps saying, look, he knows what he’s doing.

He sat in traps for us. Yeah. I mean, he’s, he, he’s a great trapper. He knows how to find them. Like I, yes, he’s eccentric and crazy, but he’s got all this high-tech equipment that they can use. So as annoying as he is. He is of some use to them, 

Todd: I would say. So he’s like the most used to them. I mean, they’re fricking lucky.

He randomly landed there cause he’s got everything 

Craig: well, he’s got the stuff and he’s got the knowledge. But, but, but before he even shows up, they’re not really worried about it. They want to keep it really quiet. But the reason that they’re not panicked immediately is because this lake is apparently so remote that nobody lives on it.

And really nobody. Does anything on it? There there’s just this one old couple that lives on it. And so the three, the main three folks go to visit this couple. And when they get there, it’s Betty White and her name is Mrs. Dolores. And she says her husband died, passed away. It’s been almost two years now.

My department doesn’t have any record of that. Mrs. Beckerman. Well, I’m sorry. Incomplete records haunt me. So,

and just such an such a sarcastic way. Yeah, he was very sick and he refused to go to a doctor. He’d be coherent one day and incoherent the next and well, one coherent day, he asked me to, and his suffering, he kept insisting and insisting. And then. Finally, I just gave in and I hit him on the head with a skillet and then buried him under the bus.

Well, dig him up if you don’t believe me, Sherlock.

Oh, just everything she says is hilarious. And it’s only because of her delivery. I suppose another performer could have. Played the role and it would have been funny, but it’s just such a hilarious juxtaposition to what we expected of her at the time. And it just, it works so, so well 

Todd: it’s a character that, you know, just gets more.

Quirky and mysterious, the more you see her, right? Because she’s saying these kinds of outrageous things, but she’s walking around and handing them tea, she’s openly admitting to killing and baring her husband. You know? I mean, it just, the juxtaposition that makes her very, very interesting and yeah, and 

Craig: her demeanor is, you know, very grandmotherly, like she’s, like you said, giving them tea, giving them cookies.

And she does this throughout, but, uh, later as she gets. More irritated, the things that come out of her mouth, are it just someone expected that it just lands so funny then Hector shows up and, and the, for now, uh, Kelly, Hector, Jack and Hank white on canoes, one of their boats gets flipped by something underneath them and Kelly and Hank end up in the water.

And there are several of these scenes where something like that happens. And then there’s really no. Nobody dies. No, it didn’t really bother me. I still found it suspenseful. Um, and I didn’t need an attack every five minutes. And like, you know, they’re, they’re figuring out, oh, obviously there was something big in the water.

Deputy Sharon Meredith sounds or finds a toe and Hector holds it up to a, Hey consist. It was just a man who was killed. You seemed 

Todd: taller. That was so funny. That was hilarious. 

Craig: There’s that joke. There’s another joke because they start to, once they realize that there is a crocodile, I wonder where it came from.

And, um, I don’t remember who maybe Hector says some asshole in Asia must have flushed it down the toilet. There are a couple of gags that are direct nods to the film alligator, which we’ve done. And this is really not all that unlike. Bigger budget, bigger 

Todd: budget. And it happens. I mean, in, in alligator, I feel like the stakes were higher simply because that thing was going through and terrorizing people in town, Russell kind of unrealistically, suddenly shows up at a party at a garden party, you know, suddenly shows up in an alley downtown.

But, but yeah, I mean, that was a little different, I thought the stakes were higher. 

Craig: Yeah, but Hector throws a big party at the campsite because crocodiles are attracted to noise. And he’s dancing with that deputy that I’ve mentioned in here, he says, it’s very dangerous work. Isn’t it? And you have such a big wonderful

and he gets away. Saying this stuff like she laughs like, it’s funny, like he’s just that eccentric. And I actually think she’s kind of 

Todd: into him. Oh, she’s definitely into him probably so, but yes, 

Craig: it’s cute. But eventually they dive in the water. They realize it’s a crock. The big reveal is when Hector and Hank get into a fight and Hank chases, Hector and the rest of them.

Characters follow the pursuit and they end up near the shore of the lake when suddenly an enormous bear here and is like standing and roaring and threatening to attack and the crocodile leaps out of the water and grabs the bear and drags it into the lake. All CGI looks totally real. Looks fantastic.

And that’s when they 

Todd: know it really looks good. It’s hard to believe they did a mix of animatronic and CGI, because you can hardly tell one from the other that seamless, you know, this was the other thing though, that bothered me about the movie is it’s a crocodile is also a land creature, right? And so there should theoretically be just as imperil on the land as they are.

And see, they are camped like six feet away from the edge of. Platts putting some traps around and stuff like that, but it’s just like, whatever they’re attacked in the lake, it’s like, oh good. They get out of the lake and then they’re out of the lake and now everything’s fine again. And they can just kind of stand around and talk and regroup and do their thing and sleep some more and wake up.

I didn’t feel this impending sense. Like, oh my God. Like, like there’s this danger that, I mean, they could at any moment just sort of walk away and then nobody really have to worry about it, you know? 

Craig: Right. They mint. They talk about it. Not until the very end. Is there really any kind of confrontation on land?

I mean, Hector explains that crocodiles are more dangerous on land, on land under that underwater. They don’t see as well. I mean, they can still get ya, but, but my 

Todd: God, this thing tacks like underwater all the 

Craig: time. Right, right. At this point they just happen to randomly be near. Uh, Betty White’s house and they see her lead a cow to the shore.

And the crock is just waiting in the water with its head above water. It’s jaws wide open. And it eats the cow and they go and they talk to her and she confesses that she’s been feeding it for like six years. And Hank says something to her like, uh, so your husband, you didn’t happen to lead him down to the water.

Did you? And she looks at him and says he probably got a Dick. This is where I’d tell you to suck. I could watch that line on the. For hours like chosen Betty. White’s saying that she’s so serious. She’s so angry and just, she’s just little old sweet Betty White just, oh God. And then, and then she calls him officer, fuck, meet

a to Hillary. 

Todd: Well, didn’t it beg the question though. Weren’t you kind of wondering how many cows does she have and how often does she need to feed it? Oh, 

Craig: definitely. Personally, this is one, 

Todd: I mean, it’s a big crocodile, but even for a big animal, it is one hungry animals. Oh. 

Craig: He just ate a bear like a minute before the 

Todd: next day goes and eats a cow.

Like how when’s this thing going to go away from? 

Craig: Hector goes swimming with it. Cause that’s what he does. He swims with these crocodiles, but it comes up right behind him. And I would guess that this was the animatronic and it was big and it looked really good. And I guess they said, you know, they, they designed it using, uh, hydraulics and they sealed it really tight so that the water wouldn’t corrupt it in any way.

And I, I guess it just worked, you know, it was kind of the opposite of. Bruce from jaws that they just had such problems with. Like this thing just worked. It even could like swim on its own. They didn’t have it doing that very often because it was really slow. They would pull it along with a boat, but it could, um, it could articulate it to movement in such a way that it could actually propel itself forward, but he swims with it and he comes eye to eye with it.

And he says, this one’s different. It’s not like any of the others that I’ve ever seen. And he barely escapes the crocodile taxes, helicopter, which again does not look back. But this is where it kind of culminates. What are we going to do? And Hector says to Kelly, we can’t let them kill it. And so Hector and Kelly tried to convince Hank and Jack that they can’t kill it.

They’ve got to try to trap it. Us wildlife is coming. Uh, Hector says it’s too big. They won’t even try. They’ll just kill it. Everything he says makes sense. He’s like, it’s a miracle. There’s, there’s no explanation for why it should be here. It’s 150 years old. It may have crossed an ocean to get here. How can we destroy something like that?

You know, we’ve at least got a try. He lays out a plan, you know, we’ll lure it to the land. I’ve got a net that’s not strong enough. Hold it, but strong enough to hold it long enough for the drugs to kick in. We can tranq it and the drugs will kick in and he’s like, I know like an oil truck or something that can house it for the time being until we find out where to put it.

They convince the very, very reluctant Hank and Jack to try this plan. And that’s what they do. And so they come and deer one of Betty White’s cows, put it in a sling, they go fishing with a cow hoisted up. Helicopter. 

Todd: It’s so silly. It’s 

Craig: it’s silly. And S and like, honestly, I was, when they start dipping it in the water, I was like, Aw, that poor 

Todd: cat.

I thought the same thing. There’s like a pita thing at the end that says no animals were harmed, but I’ll bet that cow was a little pissed. Yeah. 

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know if they actually dipped it in the water. They did voiced a cow up on a crane. Oh, that’s definitely a 

Todd: real cow to CGI this cow. It 

Craig: looks real.

And it takes a long time. You know, the cow gets tired. I mean, it, it starts in daylight and then we cut to nighttime and she, you know, the cow gets tired. It’s not really moving around. And Bridget Fonda says she looks like a giant tea bag. But then the crocodile does start coming. They have a big showdown, you know, Hector with the cow leads it to the shore, but something goes wrong and he loses control of the helicopter drops the poor cow in the lake.

They make a point of showing you that the cow is okay later. Like it just walks across the screen. The helicopter crashes into the lake, the crock comes on shore. For a little bit, and bill Pullman’s able to get a shot into its belly, the dark, but that doesn’t take it down immediately and it knocks Bridget Fonda into the water.

And there’s actually a really good underwater scene swimming away from. Uh, this is the second, there was an underwater scene in the very beginning too. And they did a really good job with it. Now lakes are very murky, so I don’t know how they filmed this because there’s great visibility under 

Todd: the wall.

It could have been in a tank, you know, in Hollywood or something. They just murked up the water a bit. But. You and I are both fans of underwater photography. I thought this movie did a fantastic job of underwater 

Craig: and the crocodile chases her there’s a, she kind of hides behind a tree and it swims past, but then she realizes her foot is stuck.

And as she’s trying to get a lung stuck, she looks up and the crock is coming right at her. And it turns on its side and opens its jaws. Luckily she’s behind the tree. So that prevents it from getting her and she gets out and gets to the helicopter where Hector still is. And then the. Attacks, but it attacks through the helicopter.

So they’re able to jump off and swim to shore. And the Al the crocodile is trapped in the helicopter. And the law enforcement people, Hank and Jack wants to shoot it. But Hector and Kelly plead with them. They say, look, it’s trapped. And, and then the drugs start to kick in and it, it starts to become sedate.

And so they don’t, uh, you think bill, Pullman’s going to shoot it, but really what he has grabbed is. Tranq gun. And so he just shoots it with another tranquilizer, which is very smart. And so you think it’s all over and then a second giant crocodile jumps out of the lake and attacks them, Hey, just blows his head off with his job.

Gun. Um, that’s pretty funny. The crocodile did chase them around on land a little bit to chase the trucks. That was exciting, good stuff going on there. Finally, of course, you know, at the last minute, once everything is taken care of us, wildlife shows up and they take over like, you know, dealing with the crocodile or what.

Hank goes with Hector and the ambulance. Cause like they’re friends now and Kelly and Jack have a moment and it looks like they’re going to just part ways without, you know, acknowledging that they have feelings for one another, but then she. You know, breaks the ice and it’s like, doesn’t anybody in Maine ever make a move and they drive off together and it’s sweet and they have a little banter.

It’s cute. And then the end of the movie is you see Betty White, this in the middle of the day. There’s this cute music. She’s walking down the dock on her. Property. And she sits down and she dips her toes in the water and she’s looking out over the water and she starts throwing in bread crumbs, and you hear a say, that’s right.

Come to mama nibble, mama’s toe. And these little baby crocodiles are in there and she’s just feeding them gleefully. And, and then you see the. Croc on a flatbed truck going down the freeway, uh, which is a pretty hilarious image. And then that’s, that’s it. And, uh, I, I, you know, I raced through the end cause we were running low on time, but it feels like it goes that fast.

Yes. There is a lot of witty banter. There are things happening. The gist of it is they’re after the crocodile, they find it, they trap it. It’s not a complex movie. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s definitely not. I think the thing that I just, um, look it’s fun. It’s fun enough that it was quirky. Like I said, it made me roll my eyes a lot.

I thought it was kind of unrealistic. It, it’s not really the type of movie I would choose to watch because I want it to be a little more exciting, little more action. Packed, like. There are these action scenes, but I just think kind of, like I said, in the back of my head, the stakes were really not that high.

And as often in the case, in something like this, they’re more putting themselves in peril than they’re finding themselves in peril. There’s really not much of a moment where, you know, they’re cornered and they’re trapped and you know, like, like the raft in creep show too. Right. You know, like that kind of thing where it’s a countdown to.

And death. It’s like, oh, we went out on the water, looking for this crock, but a couple of us fell in. So now we got to get back out of the water and back to land, which happens two or three times. And then, I mean, at the end of the day, they can take as much time as they want and pull in as much resources as they want to get this alligator.

Cause it’s not like he’s holding anybody hostage. Right. So, I mean, I just, I just kind of was a little bit like, ah, all right. I mean about halfway through the movie, I just wanted to see the plot unfold and finish. No, I’m, I’m not dogging it because it had a lot of funny moments and fun things. Like we said, the actors are of course, fantastic actors, the dialogues, witty and funny.

And there’s some funny moments, still pretty uneven, you know, at times it was really gory and scary and other times it was just like, yeah. People just being witty to each other, a lot of comedy, and then it ends 

Craig: up. 

Todd: So cliche, you know, in almost every way, almost all of these characters, like we said, are, are, um, stereotypical.

So it didn’t really bring anything new to the table in that regard, but good effects. Fun to see Betty White. That’s why we’re doing it. And yeah, I was really happy. I never actually seen this from beginning to. And so most of the times I’ve seen this, I totally missed her role. I didn’t even realize she was in this until you told me.

So. Yeah, it was a, it was, it was a good watch. It was fun to see what I recommend it to somebody else. Not really, unless you want to go in. And this is exactly the kind of 

Craig: movie you like it. Yes. That exactly. But I would recommend it, but I would recommend it more on the merits of the comedy than the horror.

Um, it’s, it’s a funny movie and I think that’s what they’re going for. I think it’s, they’re going for kind of schlocky, you know, I think that it’s perfectly successful as a modern day B movie, you know, something like mosquito or. Alligator or whatever, you know, it, it gives you a giant crocodile. It gives you some scary moments, but it’s also intentionally funny.

So I think it works. It’s not amazing. I don’t think it’s a great movie, but I do think it’s a really well done. Bad movie. Yeah, I like it. And you know, again, if nothing else, you know what folks, if you don’t want to watch this movie, I bet money. You could find just Betty White’s scenes on YouTube, and that is worth your time.

I guarantee it, especially if you’re a Betty White fan, as you very much should be. And so with all sincerity, we do this to pay tribute to, and to honor. People who we’ve lost, and this is no different, but really, I think that my heart is more in this than any other attribute we’ve done before. Uh, I think that Betty White is deserving of all of the praise that she gets.

Her legacy is cemented, I think in Hollywood and, and in our hearts with all the respect that I have. Oh, God, I just want to thank her for being a friend.

seriously. I, I will miss her. You know, it was just kind of, even during the pandemic, she totally isolated. Wisely. And so she hadn’t really been seen publicly in a couple of years. She stayed in her very modest home and, uh, just kind of hold herself up, but it was always just kind of nice knowing that she was out there.

Um, and it’s, it’s sad that she’s not, but she will be forever remembered. Amen. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of two guys in a chainsaw. Of course. Uh, if you enjoy this episode, let us know if you have any insight into this movie that we missed. We’d love to hear it. If you want to hear our other stuff, all you need to do is Google two guys in a chain soft podcast, and you’ll find this all over the place anywhere where you can find streaming podcasts.

You’ll find us there we’ll be back. But until that time, I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We had fantastic memories of this movie from when we were kids, and also memories of the TV series it was based on.

Our final entry of our Horror Anthology Theme Month is a real ride, absolutely packed with 80’s stars and three fun stories.

Tales From The Darkside: The Movie (1990)

Episode 287, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: and I’m Todd

Craig: And we are wrapping up our month of anthology movies this week. This has been a lot of fun. Oh gosh. Yes. And we’ve really gotten some really positive feedback. In fact, You know, one guy saying, Hey, why don’t you go ahead and do two months, 

Todd: we could easily, 

Craig: we really could get, you know, cause we kind of picked early what we wanted to do.

And you changed your mind a time or two, but yeah, I mean, throughout the month, I’ve just kind of. Thinking about all these other ones we could do. I don’t know that we’ll necessarily jump into another month right away, but we will keep doing these anthology films. Cause we, we love them. And who knows maybe, maybe someday we’ll get a another month, but we’re wrapping up this month.

A choice that I made, and that is Tales from the Darkside: The Movie from 1990. And I picked this movie just because I remembered it. Fondly honestly, is a coincidence only in so much as I didn’t realize, you know, we started out with Tales from the Crypt, and Tales from the Crypt was really the inspiration for Creepshow.

Uh, and we did Creepshow 2 at my behest. And I didn’t realize that really this movie Tales from the Darkside, the movie is basically the spiritual Creepshow 3. 

Todd: I didn’t know that either.  

Craig: I didn’t either. Um, but Romero and helped me out the, the effects guy Savini wanted to do a third movie, but then they kind of got sidetracked a little bit and thought, you know, let’s how about if we do a TV anthology and for whatever reason, I don’t remember if it was copyright or some other obstacle that they wanted to avoid.

They, they weren’t gonna be able to use the creep show title. So they. Decided to go with tales from the dark side and they did create a television series out of it. And so really Romero and Savini both really say that this really is Creepshow 3, just under a different title. I suppose. I’m not really surprised.

Uh, they do have a lot of similarities and similar in total. I have no idea how long it’s been since I had seen this movie a long time, but I remembered it pretty well. And I remembered it fondly and I was happy to revisit it. And I was not disappointed. I thought this was fun. I thought this was a really fun.

Todd: It is fun. I had good memories of it too. Uh, when I was a kid, especially in 90 I’m sure is when I saw it in 1990, especially two of the stories and. Well, all three of them have stuck in my mind. One of the stories when I was a kid, I felt was just really, really tragic and sad and kind of very emotionally stuck with me for awhile.

And I remembered it being full of stars. I remembered it being lots of fun. And I also remember the TV series tales from the dark side, which. Always seemed a little, I don’t know. I’m trying to think of the adjective to use a little mysterious to me as a kid because George Romero created it in 1983 and it almost immediately entered syndication.

So there were multiple networks showing this, but they would show it super late at night after midnight. On every one of these networks that showed it would play it after midnight. It wasn’t heavily promoted and advertised ever to my knowledge. I just remember, like, if you stayed up late enough and you happen to be flipping channels, you might catch.

This creepy

Craig: man.

He believes to be reality

unseen by moose and underwear.

But not as bright, clearly dark side, 

Todd: just like just fascinated me. I’m like this series is an enigma. Where did it come from? You never see ads for. But it just is on super, super late and no other time. And it has this very low budget feel to it, especially intro it’s just like shots of the countryside that then turned negative to me.

It was just the existence of this show in the way that it existed was creepy enough for me, you know? So, you know, when they made a movie out of it, I was kinda like a wall that. This is big enough for a movie and this was in the theaters and everything. I might’ve even seen it in the theater actually. Uh, now that I think about it, it’s interesting.

This, this one I have to say, um, right off the bat that it’s probably not one of my most favorite watching it as an adult. Now I have a slightly different feeling about it, but I’m so colored by nostalgia for this movie that I still enjoyed it. I think we’re going to have a lot to talk about and only three stories in this, right.

Uh, huh, that’s interesting. 

Craig: Yeah. I vaguely remember the show too. And I didn’t watch it that much. I remember a couple of episodes and I remember them being kind of dark. Um, very, you know, when I, when I think of, um, you know, creep show and, and even this movie, uh, uh, it’s horror for sure, without question it’s horror and, and there are definitely scary and nightmarish elements, but there’s also a fair amount of.

And that’s one of the things that I like about this movie is I think that it strikes a really good balance and apparently the three segments that they used, they tinkered with the order that they presented them in based on reactions from test screenings. I think that the order that they can. With worked out well.

Um, but the thing that strikes me with this movie, the show you’re right. It did, I mean, it felt very TV. Um, it, uh, felt a little bit lower budget, which isn’t necessarily a criticism. It just, it did. Um, but this movie does not at all. This feels like a Hollywood movie bolstered by the fact that full. Big stars.

A lot of these people already well-established it’s not like these are people like, oh, they’re I mean, some of them, yes. Just kind of getting their big break. Like for example, this is Julianne Moore’s first screen production. It’s crazy. I know it is. But some of them were already pretty well established actors.

It well, or other artists, this movie has a wraparound story. It’s not framed like a comic like creep show was instead there’s, you know, a standalone wraparound story that starts out right from the very beginning. There’s some really. Fun creepy music when they show the title card, which it’s really brief, but I really liked it.

It was fun. And then it jumps right immediately into this wraparound. And it seems like a very quaint, I have no idea where it’s supposed to be located, but it feels very new England type village town. Um, and you see this woman finishing up some shopping and heading home and it’s Debbie. Blondie. 

Todd: It’s crazy.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t think that I realized when I was a kid watching this, the first movie who she was, I liked her, but I don’t think that I knew that she was Blondie. And it’s also funny because I don’t know if Debbie Harry did really any. Acting. I mean, she she’s a rock star, but she’s really good. And, uh, you know, in, in, in her normal rockstar life, she’s, she’s edgy and in this she’s very suburban, you know, She’s driving around, like in her Jeep Cherokee, like waving at everybody in town.

Obviously everybody knows her. She drives by a church and the priest waves. And it’s like in the choir on Sunday

and she pulls up to her beautiful home. She lives in this nice big home with a big, beautiful long. She walks into her kitchen and right before she walks in, you see a doorknob on a door in the kitchen, rattling something’s going on. And she gets in and she takes a phone call from somebody. And she’s talking about how she’s going to have a dinner party tonight.

And it seems like, I think like eight or more people are coming, but as still, you know, all very suburban until she hangs up the phone and she opens up that door that was rattling before. And it’s. Uh, dungeon like 

Todd: a medieval D in the middle of this suburban home, is this stone with hay on the ground and shape?

It looks like, like suddenly somebody took a set from a, you know, Edgar Allen Poe, horror movie. It just dropped it right in cellar 

Craig: dwelling. It’s so hilarious. And she’s got a little boy Timmy chained up in there. Um, Timmy’s played by Matthew Lawrence, uh, of the famous Lawrence brothers. Um, his older brother, Joey was probably more famous at this point, but he, uh, Matthew had been working in television already, too, even at a very young age.

And he’s super cute, like just super, super cute. And in a sense, and basically, you know, it’s, it’s a tale as old as time. She’s a witch she’s fattening. So she can cook them up and eat and she explains, you know, very casually exactly what she’s going to do. You know, she she’s figuring out recipe times. Like, let’s see how many times this 12 going to 75, 6 times three leftover fly.

Well at 12 minutes a pound, that means you have to be in the oven by no later. One 30, oh, the deceration takes at least an hour.

So, and she talks about how she’s going to cut all his guts out. And so I’m up and she’s got these huge needles, like on a stand that she’s gonna use to visceral him. And so, and back up again, and she says something about, you know, What’d you do with that book? I gave you didn’t you read it in order to try to stall her?

He says, let me tell you a story. There, there are really good stories. Cause, cause she said that was my favorite book as a kid, but it’s been so long since I’ve read it. I, I barely remember the book by the way, is a big leather bound book with just golden bossing with the, the title tales from the dark.

Yup. And so he, uh, decides to tell her a story to try to stall. And that’s the wraparound is him telling her these stories. Um, and he jumps right into the first one, which is called lot 2 49 based on a story by sir Arthur Conan Doyle, which I didn’t know before yesterday and haven’t read, but I’m very interested to read and this story.

Stars Christian Slater is Andy Christian Slater at the height of both his youthful success success, and his youthful hotness for a minute. Christian Slater was so hot. 

Todd: Christian Slater was in everything for a 

Craig: while. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, after Heathers and all of the Jack Nicholson comparisons, I mean, he was.

I mean, he was a hot ticket in Hollywood and probably in his early twenties here just incredibly handsome and really good. And he plays this college preppy kind of asshole named Andy. And he’s got a friend named Lee played by Robert Sedgwick who also did lots of TV and stuff. Um, I didn’t really recognize him, but he did do, he was around a lot and Lee is really.

The really preppy asshole. And as it turns out, he’s used his wealth and influence to cheat this other guy named Bellingham out of a fellowship. Bellingham is played by a young girl, Steve Buscemi. And what I like most about this segment is that both Christian Slater and Steve Buscemi have this kind of slot.

Wickedness to them. That’s really just delicious on screen. Like you play it really well. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t even know how to describe it really, but it’s just something in their eyes and their intensity and their performance. They’re just really good. And it’s, it’s a fairly simple story. Bellingham knows that he’s been cheated, but there’s not really anything he can do about it.

So he’s continuing on with his life and he shows these two guys, Andy and Lee, that he has ordered. Um, an artifact and, and it’s it’s lot too far, 2 49, which is a sarcophagus with a mummy inside and he opens it up and shows them, and, uh, Uh, Lee takes off. He’s going to meet with his girlfriend, Susan, who also happens to be Andy’s sister.

And there’s a little subplot about how, part of the reason that they had gotten lead. This fellowship was Susan had anonymously accused Bellingham of stealing an artifact from the museum. And while he was wrapped up in that investigation, the whole fellowship thing had happened and he had lost his. Shot.

So Susan and Lee are co-conspirators Andy. I think kind of doesn’t really know, uh, what all has been going on. But after Lee leaves, Bellingham unwraps the mummy and he explains, which is important, how the Egyptians removed all of the organs from the mummies during the mummification process. First thing the embalmers did was to stick a metal hook up his nose and they dragged his brain out through his monstrous.

This is where they cut them open so they could pull out all those entrants and they stuffed them with flowers, spices. And I just remember that I was a kid when I saw that. And I just remember that just feeling so. Scary and gross and, and, you know, because he has explained it that it’s going to happen and it does.

And it’s, it’s, it’s fun. 

Todd: This, this is one of the two that really stuck with me as a kid, just because of the whole idea. Um, I, I, you know, I was really fascinated with the ancient civilizations, ancient Greece, anytime you bring a mummy or some kind of artifact, and I’m going to pay attention, uh, I didn’t know until this movie, this bit of trivia.

Exactly. You know, how they remove the organs. I always assumed that, you know, they just cut them off the head or something. And then he also pans down and explains that they would cut open the app. And remove the vital organs and then stuff them with aromatic flowers, which he, then it’s mommy, you know, that he’s bought and paid for who won wraps a mummy.

Right. And he starts to just completely unwrap this. Like it’s no big deal. It takes the stitches out and is reaching inside the mummy to pull out the stuff in there. And I’m, he pulls out a couple onions that are in surprisingly good shape for being 3000 years old. But one of the things that he pulls out is this scroll and he looks at the scroll and unrolls it and his eyes get pretty wide, but he downplays it for a Christian Slater’s character while he’s standing there.

And Andy, right. And so he leaves. Uh, Steve Buscemi sits there and reads through the scroll and reads it out loud in English, of course. And you know, it’s, I was waiting for the rhymes, I guess there weren’t any rhymes this time. I love, I love these horror movies where they’ll like, you know, read an ancient inscriptions.

Ancient languages, not English, but as they’re translating it, it turns out to rhyme in English.

This wasn’t quite that, but you know, just a couple steps below that in believability is if words of a spell are so important, you would think that they would need to be uttered in the language in which they were conceived or written. And they can’t just be translated and read out loud in some other language and still work.

Craig: Why 

Todd: not look, I’m not going to write and complain about it. I’m just saying, as he reads the spell, I believe the mummy’s hand comes across the side of the box, the sarcophagus box, and it starts to rise. And so you’re kind of left wondering, what’s going to happen here. In most stories, this guy would be the first one to get it right.

But that’s not exactly what happened. 

Craig: No, it’s a revenge tale and it’s simple. I mean, it’s very simple, you know, he’s, he’s using this mummy as his weapon, I guess, of revenge. And he, uh, six it on Lee and the mummy is a guy in a suit. I mean, But 

Todd: it’s a great, it’s a, it’s a great suit. It looks good. It looks good.

It looks good. And I really 

Craig: like the way that it’s shot, like the mummy goes to the, the, the rich guy’s house and the camera’s just panning around the house and the mummy is walking around and Lee hears it. And so like, he’s like skulking around trying to find it. And we just keep cutting or the camera keeps cutting around corners and across walls and through walls.

So you see that they’re basically right next to each other. There’s just always walls separating them. And I just love the way that shut. 

Todd: It’s funny. It’s fun. It’s fun and funny. Yeah. It really forgoes the normal suspense of creeping around the house. Is he around the corner and, and you know, the jump scares of that for this more, I think.

Jokey, you know, a little more playing with the audience, a little more comedic thing. Like aha. You see the mummies right over there. Ah, and, and this mommy’s very methodical. Like he comes in and even though he’s 3000 years old, he knows that their code hangers and where the code handlers are located. It goes straight to the closet to get a coat hanger.

And like you mentioned, you know, I just love this panning scene where it sort of pans by a doorway from inside the room, leading out to the hallway. And Leah’s skulking around in the hallway, kind of walks past the doorway as it pans over. And the mummy is just very patiently unbending that coat hanger and fashioning it into a little hook.

Like it’s a craft project, you know, 

Craig: Well, and I mean, it’s, it’s kind of dark in there, but not really. I mean, it’s, it’s relatively well lit there there’s no hiding of the mummy. Like you see it, you know, it, there it’s, there’s no mystery it’s right there and it looks good. And eventually I think. Sneaks up on not intentionally sneaking, but just walks up behind Lee and, and grabs him and picks him up by the throat and Rams that coat hanger up his nose and you see blood splurt all over their feet and all over the floor.

And that’s, that’s just kind of it. 

Todd: And then Susan Julianne Moore’s character comes, comes home. And, uh, this is another thing it’s just. Bedded in my brain is as she’s putting her keys down by a, on a table by the door, she looks down at their little bowl of fruit and arranged in there with the rest of the fruit is these little piece of his brain just kind of jellied right there.

Um, and, and she is remarkably calm throughout this entire encounter. I think they’re just trying to play her office. It’s really bitchy gal. Again, it becomes a little comedic, like even though she’s facing this utterly unreal spectacle, she’s enough of a self-centered egotistical jerk that she’s not that phased by it.

Craig: She’s just, she seems, I mean, okay. We’ve talked about this before, because we’ve seen Julianne Moore in another very early nineties horror movie and we remarked our, I did that. She is today. Really a brilliant actor. This is her first movie. I would not call her performance. Brilliant. She is. She’s beautiful, but I mean, she just plays it very aloof.

It 

Todd: could be because of that. Or it could also have been a star direct stylistic choice by the director. I mean, I think it kind of fits the tone that she’s more annoying. And pissed off at this mummy, then she is scared by him because even when she sees her boyfriend’s body on the ground, in the blood, she hardly has much reaction to that either.

Yeah, 

Craig: well, because she didn’t really care about him. She’s an opportunity. He’s a rich guy and she was just hooking up with him for that reason. She doesn’t really care. She even sees the. Walking out. It doesn’t even really seem all that phase. And then eventually the mummy comes for her because she had been involved in this plot to set up Bellingham.

So he sticks it on her too. She tries to fight it a little bit, but she ends up getting sliced up her back. And the mummy stuffs are with flowers. And somehow 

Todd: that’s even a little more cringey than having a hookup. Your nose. I don’t know. Yeah, 

Craig: it was, yeah. I mean it’s gory and Andy finds her dead and like wrapped in.

Like an adding machine paper 

Todd: ribbon half-ass 

Craig: costume. It’s funny. And then I really like this part, Bellingham, the power goes out and Bellingham goes to try to fix the fuse and he gets knocked out and he wakes up tied in a chair and Andy is there. And this is where Christian Slater is just gleefully, wicked.

Like now he’s exacting his revenge and he he’s got him tied up and he’s dousing him. Lighter fluid. Oh. And Bellingham wakes up the mummy, which I think Andy was expecting. So he’s ready. He’s got like an electric carving knife and he carves up the mummy with this carving knife. It’s just really funny cuts off the top of its head and sets it in the fire.

And it seems like he’s going to kill Bellingham, but like he can’t really bring himself to do it. So he just demands that Bellingham, give him the scroll with the text on it. And Bellingham doesn’t want to, but he’s like, okay, it’s in the desk. So Andy grabs it and he burns it up and then Bellingham is leaving school and he says something like, bye.

And then kind of under his breath, as he’s walking away, I’ll find some way to keep in touch and it turns out. As he’s in the taxi cab going away, it wasn’t the real scroll. It was a different scroll. And he reads from the real one. Um, and in the very end, the very last thing Andy’s talking to his mom on the phone about coming home soon and he hangs up the phone and there’s a knock on the door and it’s mummy.

Lee and Susan, and they just say like, Bellingham sends his regards or something like that. And they’re, they’re all gross and bloody and scary. And it’s funny. And then it goes back to the rap super briefly, like. Uh, enough time for the kid to say, oh yeah, that story was over, but I’ve got another one. Uh 

Todd: it’s about this guy at a cat.

Craig: And then we get into the, the second story, which is the cat from hell, which was based on an existing Stephen King short story. I would say of the three. This is probably my least favorite, but that’s not to say that I don’t like it. I do like it. This one has almost like a no R kind of feel to it like a stylized.

Yeah. And I like that. And like, there’s some really cool cinematography. The premise is this super old guy. Drogon rich guy Drogon is played by William Hickey, who we’ve talked about on this show before. He’s this little frail old guy at a dock side. And that’s guide today’s God, he’s hilarious. I really enjoy him and everything that he’s in, he’s in a wheelchair, but he hires this Hitman named Halston plays by played by David Johansen, who some people might know as Buster Poindexter.

He’s a singer as well. 

Todd: And he was in a Scrooged. He was the taxi driver 

Craig: and the taxi driver. And he’s a very straight laced hard-nosed Hitman. And this Drogon explains to him that he wants to hire him for a hit $50,000. It be another 50,000. When you bring me proof that the cat has ended its time. And I don’t believe this you’re hiring me to kill a cat.

That cat has killed three people in this household.

Todd: He’s like, I can’t, it you’re kidding me. This is, this is, you know, what a lot of people think of cats turns out to be the case with this cat. It’s it’s, it’s a little, it’s a little terror Drogon is convinced that this. Um, well, he takes them, basically walks him through the story. He had two sisters or a sister and a friend or whatever.

One of the sisters is played by Alice Drummond, who I know forever as the frightened librarian in Ghostbusters and the cat dispatches, both of these ladies, one of them, uh, trips her up as she’s walking down the stairs and she falls down the stairs and breaks her neck. And, uh, the other woman, what happens to the other 

Craig: woman?

Uh, it, it. Smothers her. Oh, yes. Jumps on. He tells Drogon Drogon tells the, the old wives’ tale about how cats are dangerous to have around elderly people or, or infants because they steal their, um, their breath and their sleep, which of course is a wives tale. It it, I mean, it doesn’t the cat doesn’t like suck her breath out all, uh, like cats or something.

And probably the origin of this myth, I would guess is the cat. Well, this cat like clings itself to her head. I would, I would imagine, I would imagine that the myth, if you’ve got infants or. Elderly people who are incapacitated. In theory, a cat could go to sleep on your face, 

Todd: where if you have a fat cat, like I had growing up with the minute it leaps on your chest while you’re sleeping, it does take your breath away for sure.

This, this was so silly. Actually. I often confuse this sequence with a cat as, as being from catseye, which is another anthology series, which Stephen King wrote. And I think it’s just. Involves a cat and this scene of a cat kind of leaping onto someone’s chest and just trying to steal their breath happens in cats.

I have one of the stories in there as well. So I guess I just got the two conflated, but this was originally, as we mentioned a couple of weeks ago, this was originally supposed to be a fourth story in creep show too. And they just for budgetary reasons decided not to do it. So they revived it here. Um, so George Romero scripted this tale and I think.

Again, it’s so comedic. The whole sequence is really comedic. I mean, the notion that this Hitman is hired to kill a cat in this big mansion is goofy. Although it also brought me back shades of. What was that one that we did, uh, where there was the rat in the house? Oh, 

Craig: I won’t be able to think of the name of it, but I know what you’re talking about.

Truder and the guy basically has to maybe intruder. I don’t know, but the guy basically has to destroy his whole building to like, try to get this 

Todd: right. I, I, that was getting flashbacks of that. It was, but, but it’s so silly a to concept is silly and B this scene, when she leaps onto this woman’s face. And this cat is just literally wrapped around her face as she sits up and screams and is like flailing around this.

Get, you know, it’s just, I mean, it’s obviously like a fake cat on her face, but it’s just, it just looks cartoonish, which fits the style of the. Segment, right. It does. 

Craig: And it is silly and I that’s, that’s fine. I, I like humor in my horror, but I think that part of what makes it silly is that it’s played straight.

Everybody plays this straight, um, in this segment, like you said before, it’s really stylized in terms of the cinematography. Like there’s, there’s one scene, just a few frames near the very beginning when Halston is coming in and Drogon is sitting in. Wheelchair in front of this fire and it’s this big cavernous room.

Everything is in shades of gray and black. Except for Halston, very small, right in the middle. And he’s got like this red blanket over his lap and he’s illuminated by the fire. And so it’s just this one pop of color right in the middle. And it, I just, I was looking at him like, dang, that looks great. It just looks 

Todd: so good.

Citizen Kane in a way. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. And they do cool stuff with, um, like there’s a cat POV. That’s mostly black and white with kind of some like violet around. Circling around the outer frame. Um, and then the flashbacks are in interesting dream-like colors. All of a sudden it’s not natural looking color.

It’s kind of dreamlike. And I like, you know, when it kills the two women and then Drogon tells. Butler another guy. If you watched any, if you’ve watched any movies ever, you’ve seen this guy that’s right in something. Cause he’s been in every what’s his name? I can’t remember gait, uh, mark Margolis. Oh yeah.

He’s in every super recognizable. My God you’ve seen that. He’s been, he’s still working. I mean, he’s been working for decades, but uh, he, he tells him to take the cat to a vet either to have. Caged up or put down. It’s not really clear, but the cat causes a big car accident engages, killed, and that’s why, um, Drogon is convinced that it’s coming after him next.

And so Drogon leaves. Oh, and he explains the cat’s motive. Drogon made his fortune in pharmaceutics. And they developed this one sketchy drug that’s like part painkiller, part hallucinogen, part in fed or something. I don’t know. And dragons popping these pills all the time. But, uh, in the process of developing this drug, they tested it on cats and they.

Like 5,000 cats or something. So he thinks that this cat is here’s who exactly it’s revenge for its 

people. 

Todd: It’s a representative from the cat world.

So funny. 

Craig: And then there is probably five minutes, five to 10 minutes of Halston kind of hunting this cat around. 

Todd: He’s more wandering around the house, pouring himself, a drink and stuff. And then the cattle just jump out of nowhere and scratch his face. And because 

Craig: initially he thinks it’s dumb. Like he thinks the whole job is dumb, but he’s more than happy to do it because the is going to, he he’s already handed him 50,000 and he tells him that, uh, when it’s done, if, if he.

If, if Halston can give him the cat’s tail is proof that it’s dead. He’ll give him another 50,000. So he’s like, fine. I can kill a calf or a hundred grand, whatever, but the cat keeps evading him and attacking him. Uh, and each time it attacks it, uh, causes quite a bit of damage. So by the end, he’s bloodied and I mean, it’s, he’s got scratches on his face and on the back of his neck, All over.

It looks terrible. And eventually the cat always kills at midnight. So we know that when midnight comes he’s in trouble, the clocks, uh, strikes midnight and the cat rises up. At the top of the clock, I loved it. It’s very, it, it reminded me of, um, Edgar Allen. Poe’s the black like w what is this freaking cat?

Why is it always in the wrong place? And it jumps down off the, uh, clock onto his face and in a great special effects moment works its way into his mouth. Down his throat and into his 

Todd: abdomen. Yes. 

Craig: It’s stupid. It isn’t real fantastic and stupid, 

Todd: but yeah, it’s fantastic. So then, um, I think Lee’s character comes home.

Drogan comes home. Wheel’s himself. And sees this guy on the, on the floor out of his mouth comes calling back out the cat, who then jumps on his lap and Droga knocks, dragons pills out of his hand. So he can’t pop his pills anymore. Uh, you know, in my mind, I just remembered the sequence differently. I remembered this going down the guys.

The old guy. Yeah, I totally did. I was waiting for it to happen and you know, it didn’t, 

Craig: I didn’t, I don’t remember exactly what happened at the end, but then when it happened, I’m like, oh yeah, that that’s that’s right. It doesn’t have to do anything to him. It, it, it scares him to death. He, uh, he has a heart attack and he dies and, you know, and that’s it.

And 

Todd: that’s, that’s also like, I think it’s kind of neat, except for, of course the guy with the cat kind of crawling into his, down his throat now does mouth each of these other desks. Accidental. Right. They could be explained away by his paranoia. Right. And he thinks it’s the captain. He wasn’t there to witness.

Either of these things happen. Just one woman ended up kind of like dying. And they said it was natural causes, but he knows it’s the cat, the other one falls down the stairs and he just knows it was the cat that tripped him up. And then he gets them get dispatched by dropping his pills, you know, when he can’t get to them.

And, uh, that is going to be easily explained away by the cops when they show up, except for this guy, with this jaw, that must be completely unhinged. It’s a weird story, but it does work, but it’s total comedy. I think there’s, again, I don’t really. Just like the first story. I can’t say it was really scared.

No, there’s, there’s not a lot of suspense and drama here. It’s just kind of fun and interesting to watch. You can also predict what’s going to happen with both of these stories. You know, I mean the minute, the minute and the mummy story that the hugs explained and the flowers explain to you, I go, all right, well, we know what’s going to happen there.

I think the only surprise there was when Christian Slater’s character gets the better of him. That’s a bit of a surprise. Like scary. Yeah. What I like 

Craig: about this story is how simple it is. Uh, I mean, it, it, it just feels like. Storytelling, of course, it’s going to be no surprise to you or to our listeners.

I’m, I’m, I’m a huge Stephen King fan, but Stephen King says that he continues to write short stories because he feels like it keeps him sharp. As a writer, it forces him to be more condensed, condensed, and succinct. And, and it’s true. You know, I, I do love Stephen King’s novels, but he can draw things out over the course of 

Todd: a novel literary elephant ism, I think is what he says he suffers from 

Craig: well, and, and it’s fine.

I mean, his characters are engaging. I mean, there are some times. When I’ve read from his books, I’m like, okay, come on. There’s something else going to happen, but I still enjoy his novels, but really I love his short story anthologies. He’s good. Really good at telling a complete story in a condensed, um, space.

And this feels like a good short story. This, this feels like a story that would get told at a slumber party. You 

Todd: does. Could you imagine if this story were D had ended up in creep show too, it really would have totally changed the movie. I mean, creep show too, for the most part, there’s not a lot of humor in it, right.

I mean the three stories are fairly dark and this one is, like I said, I it’s really comedic. It’s really kind of silly. And so. There wouldn’t have been anything wrong with that. It just would have been, 

Craig: oh, you right. I, yeah, I don’t know. It works well here, like, and I think that it works well here in the middle for whatever reason.

I don’t know, but it cuts back then to the wrap around again. And. Betty is going to allow a Timmy to tell one last story, because he promises her. It’s going to be a love story because love stories are her favorite. This last story is called lover’s vow. And this one, and I think. Based on what you’ve already said.

You’re going to probably agree with me that this is the one that always stuck with me. And still today, I really, really like it. That may have something to do with the fact that it’s based on an actual legend, a Japanese folklore legend. It takes the, the basics of that story, but changes that. To, um, so it’s not exactly the traditional story, but it’s the same premise.

Oh, and gosh, you already said it. And I agree. It feels almost ironic to say, but there’s almost something beautiful about this story and it does feel tragic at the end. It is frightening. And something else that I, the, the images of this scene are. Seared into my mind. There, there are creature effects that probably technically aren’t that amazing, but they look so good.

Like really? I just little love it. Oh man. All right. Do you want you start. Well, 

Todd: uh, I mean this again, also a very simple story. That’s drawn out a little bit, but it’s, it’s very interesting. There’s a guy named Preston and he is a living in sort of a studio apartment in New York. Uh, I think it’s New York.

It seems like it, he’s got a skylight above his studio and there’s an interesting shot in the beginning where you see this gargoyle just sitting, um, on the top of his building, but it can kind of peer down, um, into. Not peer down, but just kind of like pans across the gargoyle. And you can see down in the skylight, he’s working on this stuff.

And, uh, his agent calls him and asked him to meet him at a bar. And so he goes and meets him at this bar a little walk away. He’s like, oh, tell me how much. He now, like, what are you going to give you a big pot of cash? And the agent says, no, actually, I’m, I’m here to tell you that the gallery can’t sell on a, your stuff and they want to return it all to you.

Um, and he’s just completely dejected. And so he just starts drinking a ton. You get the sense that he’s at this bar a lot. It’s this tiny little dive bar, nobody in there. Um, but you get the sense that the bartender’s like his friend, uh, And he’s a regular there, so they walk out the side. Uh, they’re the last two.

Well, they’re like the last two to leave, but then there’s another guy who’s just slumped over the bar, uh, sleeping. And I guess they’re just going to lock him in there. Yeah. 

Craig: The bartender says I’ll let him out in the morning.

Todd: It’s great. But he comes out the side entrance, which leads into an alley and a while he’s changing the. Um, Preston kind of walks a little bit further down the alley and then his friend, uh, the bartender hears a noise and, uh, he kind of goes back to investigate a little bit and suddenly you see something swipes and his hand falls.

And something swipes again, and his head comes off like something just completely massacred this guy. And, uh, Preston runs over and sees this happen and he starts to run away, but the creature kind of gets him up against the wall and he begs for his life. And the creature, like you said, is it looks great.

It’s this great gargoyle face. That’s like grinning very, 

Craig: very today. And very articulate wing it. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, very, very articulated. And he starts talking. I believe 

Craig: in exchange. You got it. You ever see, you saw

promise. You gotta be kidding. I promise when it starts speaking like that, that shocked me all of a sudden, it’s just talking in English your life in exchange for a promise. Um, and I just think that’s such a cool. like, yeah, it is poetic. Like, I’ll let you live, but you have to keep this one promise and it’s really a fairly simple promise.

Just don’t say anything, you know, never, never tell, never tell anybody 

Todd: fairytale. Right. It’s like the ASAPS fable or whatever, just in, in a modern day, urban legend type context. And that’s probably why it works so well. I mean, Just immediately after the monster flies away, he leaves the alley and there’s a woman suddenly walking down the street and he pulls her aside and says, what are you doing here by yourself?

You can’t be here by yourself. It’s just like, well, I’m just trying to go home, but I lost my weight. He says, no, this neighborhood is dangerous. Um, let me take you to my place. And you can call a cab from there. You’ll never get a cab here. And she’s like, okay. 

Craig: Right. I mean, it seems like. Shady like, cause he, he, no, I get it.

I understand that. He knows that there’s this dangerous thing and he’s trying to protect her, but the way that he grabs her and throws her up against the wall and covers up her mouth, I mean, how would you not find that threatening? But he convinces her that he’s just trying to help out. And apparently she believes him.

The Preston is played by James Remar, who again has been in a million things. I remember him from sex in the city. He was one of Kim control’s love, interests,

very, very handsome and rich and debonair in that movie naked. Um, or that show, I mean, excuse me, but, uh, the woman whose name ends up being. Is played by radon Chong and in the mid to late eighties, radon Chong was poised to be a huge star. And, uh, I’m not really sure what happened. Uh, what I know is when Steven Spielberg made.

The color purple radon Chong was cast in it. And she was originally poised, even though she plays a very small character. She was poised to be among the top build just because she was this rising star. And, um, she looks in this movie she’s gorgeous. She’s young, she’s gorgeous. This, you know, a beautiful black woman, um, just absolutely gorgeous.

And she goes to his apartment with him. He says, come to my apartment, uh, and you can call a cab from there, but when they get there, he first dials the police. But when the police answer, he doesn’t say anything. And, um, he says something to her, like, did you want to try to call a cab again? And she just doesn’t answer.

And so he goes to the bathroom and is like, he takes his shirt off the demon monster gargoyle at the very last thing it said to him, what. After he promised, she said, cross your heart and, uh, scratched him across his chest. So he’s got these big gashes across his chest and she walks up behind him and she’s like, what happened?

And he said, oh, I was on the wrong end of a bottle of scotch or something like that. So he doesn’t say anything and she cleans up his wounds and then 10 minutes after they meet, they. 

Todd: Um, exactly. They fall in love very quickly. 

Craig: They do. They fall in love very quickly, but you know, it’s, it’s a fairy tale, so that’s okay.

So in the 

Todd: meantime, he’s really haunted by this vision and he’s an artist. And so, you know, he expresses himself, he gets out a piece of paper and is constantly like painting or drawing this creature, but he always has. The, the drawings when she comes into the room or anybody comes in really so that he will not break his vow.

And, uh, then it fast-forwards to 10 years later. Well she’s, 

Craig: before that, she says that she was talking to him while she moves in with him. The next. Oh, yeah. Then she says, you know, I’ve got a friend, actually, it’s kind of a friend of a friend who like, has a gallery or something and they’re in, I told them about you and they’re interested.

And he’s like, what’s, what’s their name? And she’s like, well, the first name’s like this, but I don’t really remember the rest. And he recognizes the name. And apparently it’s this hot gallery owner who has like the, you know, the hippest gallery of. She happens to know him. Yeah. And so they do a showing and he’s immediately successful making tons of money.

And then they cut to 10 years later. That’s 

Todd: right. They cut to 10 years later and they have two little kids, two little girls or boy and a girl and 

Craig: a great life. Apparently wonderful, incredibly successful madly in love. 

Todd: Matt T even 10 years later, still madly in love. And they’re celebrating their anniversary and they go out and they have dinner and stuff and he comes back home and he says to her, you know, it’s just so sweet, right?

Uh, he’s like, oh, I just wanted to give you something better than, you know, what, what we had now. And she said, there’s nothing that, that you can give me that I don’t already have. And he says, well, actually there is, he pulls 

Craig: out a sculpture. He gives her a very detailed. Miniature sculpture of the demon and he tells her the story and she sits there and listens to it.

And she’s almost shaking. Yeah. Her face is blank and he tells her the whole story and she gets up and she’s holding. The thing, the, the sculpture and she starts to cry. And then she says, you promised, you’d never tell 

Todd: it’s so good. Oh, I 

Craig: just love 

Todd: it so much. Like her arms sort of split open at the elbows and outcome, these things.

And these wings start to unfurl and her face splits open, and she basically transforms back into that gargoyle and the, he looks over the room and his kids start to block out. Now gargoyle kids too. And they’re so 

Craig: cute and sad. Cute. Oh my God, they’re adorable. But they look, they look so sad and they’re like clinging to each other, like they’re scared.

And I just, I loved this part because he’s, he. Crying too. And he’s begging he’s begging, please go back, please. I’m so sorry. I love you. Yeah. I love you. And uh, she says, I can’t, you broke your vow. And she, she pulls him in to this embrace. Like she wraps her arms and her wings around him and he says, I loved you.

And she says, I loved you too, but you broke your vow. And now this is. Fate. And she bites 

Todd: his throat out like a kiss almost, you know, ripping his throat out. And what’s so 

Craig: tragic about this is not like, obviously it’s frightening, but it’s not even so much that he skipped. He’s just devastated. Like they’re, they’re all devastated and it is devastating.

And the, you know, the last thing that you see is she grabs her little gargoyle kids and they fly out through the, a skylight and she resumed her position where she was overlooking his apartment before. But now she’s. Her two little gargoyle babies, like huddled up next to her and they turn back to stone and that’s it.

God, I love that story. 

Todd: It’s such a good story. When I was a kid, it shocked me. I mean, it surprised me, like I didn’t expect this woman to be the gargoyle maybe because I’ve seen it before and I knew I was going to end up. It w it would kind of projected a little 

Craig: bit, same way this time. 

Todd: Yeah. You know, I mean, she shows up right afterwards.

And then, uh, and what I was a kid, my interpretation of this story was not that she was the gargoyle all along. My interpretation of the story was just that, you know, she was just a, uh, a woman, but because he broke the vow, this is how. How the punishment was meted out, you know, the, the gargoyle destroyed her and then, you know, no, I don’t think that’s it.

I don’t think that’s it. I think she’s literally the gargoyle because now I picked up on all those other things, like the gargoyle looking down from the top. And I think like, 

Craig: I think that, I think this time watching it that’s the first time I thought of it in that way. Like she had been. Perched above his apartment, watching him through the skylight.

And she, you know, she knows, I think she fell in love with them. 

Todd: It does beg the question though. How did this gargoyle know this super famous, um, a gallery owner in town? She’s magic. I don’t know. Just magic. 

Craig: Um, it’s my favorite. It does feel tragic. It feels sad. I mean, it is frightening and the effects are great.

It looks fantastic. Um, but the overall feeling that I was left with was, was sadness. Like, God, that’s sad. I mean, especially with the little kids and they’re so cute. Oh, how devastated. And when he, when he turns and sees his kids, he falls to the floor and he’s weeping and reaching for them. And, uh, just horrible.

So then it cuts back to the rap and Betty is getting clearly frazzled at this point and she’s ready to go. She’s ready to cook him. And he’s like, wait, uh, I’m going to tell you the best story of all. And she’s like, well, you should already told me, cause it’s too late. Now. Then he starts telling his story and he’s like, it’s a story about a little boy named Timmy.

Can you tell the brother having stupid Pampers and one day give the other brother got sick. Can we have to go on and clapping? One house. She said, come on 20, went inside to treat them and she’d throw them in your pantry. She made me swift these all day long, cause she was gonna cook them. This is your story.

And you can stop telling it now because we both know how it comes. Uh, and he says, yeah, but then what, what the witch didn’t know was that Timmy had these marbles in his pocket and he’s narrating all of this as it’s tax, 

Todd: he’s doing this shit and the stupid, which is not paying attention. Oh, I know. 

Craig: It’s great.

And so he says, and so, and so he threw the marbles on the ground and she didn’t see. And, um, she stepped on him and she slipped and fell. And so she does, and she falls right directly back onto the. Protruding giant needles that she has on her cart. And she jumps up and is trying like he’s trying to get the needles out of her back and he gets her keys and unlocks himself and shoves.

Um, onto the 

Todd: huge giant oven tray rolls out. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s Hansel and Gretel, just Hansel, I guess, but it’s, it’s adorable. And he pushes her in there and then he just walks away and she’s screaming and burning up and he walks over to the counter and grab. Uh, package chocolate chip cookies and pulls one out and stops eat it, starts eating it and then looks directly into the camera.

And with a big smile on his face says, don’t you just love happy endings? And the music starts and the credits roll. I just think this movie is so much fun. Like, oh, I just had such a good time watching it. It, I was never scared, but there were scary elements. Um, You know, I, I was probably more scared by it when I was a kid.

I think I remember actually finding the cat one pretty scary when I was a kid. Um, not so much now, but, but entertaining and every story I thought was an engaging story. The acting is great. It’s really nice to look at. I mean, I just feel like it’s very well done. We didn’t even talk. The director is John Harrison who.

Did a lot of production, but this is one of the few movies. I think that he directed himself. He worked on creep show too. I think 

Todd: he also composed the music for a creep show to at my right. I don’t remember. Yeah. And Don and Dave, the dad, I think I’m not sure. Oh 

Craig: yeah. Yeah. He worked on that too, I think.

And so he, you know, he and Romero were, uh, you know, co workers and, and 

Todd: whatnot. I think it was a modest success, but critically it was pretty mixed reviews. I think maybe a lot of people felt it was little silly. Maybe they were a little too heavy on the comedy and also thought that the stories were a little pedestrian and predictable.

I think that’s fair criticism, but just tonally. The movie is not the. As I actually, I would say it’s a lot closer to the original creep show than it is to a creep show to a, the original creep show is goofy and has a lot of humor in it. Uh, creep show too is fairly serious and tries to be a little more dark.

This movie was definitely going back to the other way of. Just goofy. I mean, the wraparound story silly, the mummy story has, is, is just, it’s not shot. Like we said, in a very suspenseful way. And then of course the cat moot, I just think the cat story is baffling, but it’s just goofy. Th th th th they’re good to end on that third one, I think, you know, which is really a tear-jerker.

I don’t know how you come back. From that you’d give Scott to end your movie after that. And that’s exactly what they do, you know, but again, it is predictable. Like you’ve got to at least a 50% chance of figuring it out almost as soon as she appears on the screen. So. That’s that’s a bit of a flaw. I was surprised to read in the trivia in, I MDB that George Romero, uh, on the commentary track.

And I think one of the, the producer or no, it was the director said that they got some pushback on casting, a black woman, romantic interest with this guy. And this was 1999. I believe that I don’t even, I don’t remember that being a thing like in the nineties, but I mean, who knows what kind of conversations happen up the chain that were never privy to, but yeah, they had some pressure to include some reason why there would be this interracial, you know, love affair.

And George Romero has always been on the right side of this sort of thing. So he was like, no, you need to do it. It’s so 

Craig: stupid. Like even as a kid that never even crossed my mind, you know, like they were just too sexy people. Like why 

Todd: I was in love with her as a kid, I thought she was gorgeous. I mean, to me, half the half of the tragedy was, you know, yeah.

They had this great life, but man, you bagged a nice one, you know? 

Craig: Yeah, I forgot about that. I read that too, and it really shocked me too. I was like really in 1990. That’s so bizarre, but really, I mean, I guess it just goes to show that we’ve come a long way, so that’s, that’s good. I guess that’s true. 

Todd: I guess there was a SQL plan too, that never made it, that never happened.

And they keep talking about rebooting the, the tales from the dark side series. But I don’t think that’s ever happened either. 

Craig: Well, see, and know it. Well, they did, they rebooted it in, uh, the late nineties, I think. And it ran for a little while. And this guy, the director here, Harrison directed a couple episodes of it.

I think I’m pretty sure. I feel like it may have kind of fallen to the wayside. At this point because creep show has its own series on shutter now, 

Todd: which I think these guys were involved in. Right? They 

Craig: are. And Harrison has directed a few episodes of that too, I think. Um, so unless it was picked up by a different streaming service or, or a different network or something, it seems like it would almost be a little bit redundant, you know, there’s so similar, but yeah, I don’t know whatever I could make room for both, but yes, the people who were in.

In this and who were involved in the creep show, movies are now involved at least in some capacity with the show, which I need to get more into. I’ve watched a couple of episodes and I liked them that I just haven’t really gotten around to it. But anyway, It’s been, you know, a lot of fun talking about these movies this month.

I, I kind of feel bad. Todd has been wanting to do this probably for years at this point, we just never got around to it. And I’m glad that we finally did. It’s been a lot of fun. And like I said before theme month, Uh, these anthology films will continue to pop up and we’ve already done a bunch of them. So if you haven’t listened to some of those past episodes and you like this format, you can go back and check some of those out.

And if you’ve got, uh, requests, uh, you know how to find us Google to guys in the chainsaw podcast, drop us a message, drop us, um, a DM on. Facebook or, or, you know, leave us a comment on any of those places and, uh, hopefully we’ll find them. And if you’ve got a request, we’ll put you on the list and, uh, hopefully get around to it sometime in the near future until next week.

I’m Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We go waaaaay back for the third entry in our month of horror anthology films. Dead of Night is the granddaddy of them all – one of the first ever. It’s not likely to scare you to death, but there’s a lot to enjoy in here, particularly the creepiest story of them all involving a malevolent ventriloquist dummy.

Dead of Night (1945)

Episode 286, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: we’re going on week three of our month of anthologies. And this week I picked a film. This was a movie that had been on our list forever. It’s a film that I had seen, I think back during one of those months before we were doing the podcast, when I would, uh, on Halloween and try to watch a horror movie a day, we’re going back a little earlier than we usually do.

This is a 1945 British anthology horror film, Dead of Night. It is a bit rare because during this time horror films were generally banned from production in Britain. At least they were during the war. This film got produced, I guess it was just after the war. Right? 1945. I’m not very good with history. So we’re just going to pretend I know what I’m talking about made by Ealing studios.

And the reason that I chose to watch it originally is this has very good, critical reviews, good reviews on rotten tomatoes. It has a lot of 1930’s and 40’s British stars in it. Um, some people who are quite famous for the. Back in the sort of glamorous Hollywood times. It is in black and white. So it’s a movie that Craig doesn’t usually choose to watch, but we did pretty well.

The last time we watched a black and white movie, I think that was way back. Um, was it, uh, eyes without a face? Is that what we saw? That might be the last one we saw that French movie and, uh, I think you ended up enjoying that thought it was simply creepy. We sure liked it. This one I remembered when I watched it years ago.

Pleasantly surprised. Uh, it ended up a little bit darker and a little more sophisticated than I thought it would be for a horror film of this era. And in watching it this time around, I, I think I, I feel the same way. I was really happy to put it on the docket and I figured the only way I could get it on the docket here was if I snuck it in, on Craig during our horror anthology month.

So here we are. I’m I don’t know, man. I’m sorry. Does it sound like I’m trashing you or something? I just know, I know you don’t like these really old or at least you don’t tend to seek out these really old horror films. And you’ve admitted to me in the past that black and white, even just isn’t really your thing.

You maybe I’m selling you a little too short here. I’m just anticipating how you might feel about it, but maybe I better just let you speak for. 

Craig: Well, I mean, you’re not wrong, but to say, to say that you have to sneak it in that’s bullshit, like 

Todd: fair enough. Well, it’s not, like I 

Craig: say, I never say no. I never say no, I’m not going to watch this.

That’s true, but you’re right. You know, I don’t typically watch stuff like this. That’s not to say that I. I don’t know, I just don’t really seek them out, but there are movies like to kill a Mockingbird is one of my favorite movies. I love that movie and it’s old and in black and white, I like the wizard of Oz.

You know, like I like some black and white. I know I like some old Hollywood stuff. The, you know, the original, um, uh, of mice and men. Uh, I probably, I don’t know if I’ve seen that one, but you know, it’s, I I’m, I’m willing to give them a shot. I, I don’t write them off outright just because they’re older, but this, uh, Yeah, I, I, I didn’t love it.

It, it just, it, it felt really old. This style of acting is fine, but it’s, it’s just, it’s very old Hollywood. There’s, there’s something that’s a little bit more, and I say, Hollywood, this isn’t made in Hollywood. This is a British film, but it feels very old Hollywood in that the acting style is just a little, I feel like today we anticipate a little bit more authenticity.

Like people acting like people in the real world, whereas in old Hollywood and in this movie, it feels very much like actors. In fact, this feels much to me. Like a play. 

Todd: Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s very presentational, right? The acting style back then. You’re right. It, it, it’s, it’s sort of in between realistic, but presentational much like a stage actor is right.

I suppose 

Craig: so. Right. Which again, nothing inherently wrong with that. Just not really my cup of tea and this movie. I mean, it’s, I totally see. And I’m sure that you have done the research and will inform me on all of this, but I, I see how this is a precursor to all of these anthology films that we love, but in being from 1945, For me in 2022, it’s just a little too tame and 

Todd: it’s not going to scare the pants off.

You 

Craig: know, I didn’t find it scary at all. That’s not to say that the ideas weren’t clever. And if I read them in short story form, I think that I would think that they were clever, but watching them play out in film in this kind of presentational way, it just, I don’t know. It felt like something I would watch with my grandma.

Todd: It probably is something you’d watch with your grandma. I haven’t been to 

Craig: it reminded. Yeah. I mean, it reminded me of when I was a little kid and I would go out to my grandparents’ farm and they would only have, you know, like the three network channels and we would sit and watch like Bonanza. Or something like that, it felt like it was for old people.

Todd: I think you’ve many people credit this movie as being maybe the first horror anthology film, or at least one of the first films that have this format of a wrap-around story. And these Twilight Zoney tails in the middle, and most of them are based on short stories. In fact, one of them is based on an HG Wells’ story and not the one I thought it would be actually when I went back and looked it up.

But yeah, they’re, they’re probably very good literary stories, but in told in this way, with the constraints of the time period, I think what was acceptable on screen, what was not. And like you said, also just sort of the technical and, and act just the way movies were done. They were generally more for all audiences back then.

You couldn’t do films that, um, or at least you couldn’t do films and expect to make any money on. You know that we’re a little too narrow in their focus. And this is right at the time of the Hays code and Hollywood Britton had the same thing, uh, where, you know, they were just things you couldn’t say and do on in movies.

You can apply a bit, you know, you could kind of use coded stuff. And there’s a little bit of that in here. Slyly stuck in, but on the whole, you don’t even get like the ghostly scares that you get. And there are films actually from this period, do manage to become creepier and have some of those ghostly scares.

Despite it, all this film just doesn’t even really attempt it. This is like a Twilight zone episodes. I think that’s what it feels part of what makes it a little tedious at times to sit through is because, you know, the endings of myeloma. Because you’ve seen these stories a thousand times since then.

Right? So most of them don’t feel terribly original, although maybe they felt more original at the era, you know, back in 1945. 

Craig: Right. I mean, even, even the twist, like E even the frame story has a twist, but it’s so clearly projected right. From the beginning that you know exactly what’s going on. So there, there are no surprises, honestly, 

Todd: it’s almost like they’re not even trying.

Right. I mean, you know, like you said, it’s kind of like, they discuss it during the framing story and then it ends up being. Kind of more or less what they thought it was or what at least one character thinks it is. Right. 

Craig: All right. Well, unless you have a history lesson for us,

Todd: I’m not going to launch into a 15 minute thing on horror comics or the 19 filmmaking of the 1940s. If that’s what you’re anticipating now, you just want to dive in. And 

Craig: I was going to a nice change of pace. I 

Todd: suppose. I introduced the movie next time, you know, 

Craig: thank you very much, but no, the reason I say we should get into, okay.

First of all, a lot of stories, there’s a lot of stories. You said you had originally picked something else and you, you changed your mind and said, don’t read anything about this in advance, which, you know, I appreciate that warning. I like to be surprised. Yeah. To have surprises spoiled. So I didn’t read anything about it, but right before watching it, I did go to the IMDP page just to kind of, you know, see what it was rated, which it’s not see if I recognized any of the actors, which I didn’t.

And, uh, but one of the things that I was excited to see was that it was only an hour and 17 minutes long. And then I pull up the video and it was about an hour 40, I think. Um, so as it turns out, the people who distributed the American release decided that the original European cut was too long. And so they cut out, uh, two of the segments, which led to some confusion in American audiences because in the finale of the movie, things converge and, uh, it w it was confusing.

And I can imagine, um, Y I would have been very, yeah, I would have been very confused. What we watched, I believe is, uh, the original European cut. And so it has all of the stories and there are a lot of them, and I want to talk about all of them, but we’re going to have to move through them pretty quickly if we want to keep it at about an hour.

So the wraparound story. There are long opening credits like annoyingly long. Then you see this guy, his name is Walter Craig, and I think they call him Craig. Most of the time he drives up to this nice country, a state, and as soon he drives up to it and he stops in front of it and he looks, and he’s got this very puzzled look on his face.

Like you can tell already he’s feeling like something is off or strange or whatever. And he’s greeted by a guy named Elliot. It was kind of difficult to keep up with some of the dialogue. And I found myself, um, pausing and going back a lot. Uh, is, is Walter the architect of this? 

Todd: Uh, well, he’s an architect.

I don’t know if he’s an architect of this house, but they want to do some renovations on this house. So that’s why he’s been called yet. 

Craig: So he’s there for like a consultation and elegant brings them in. You can just tell right from the beginning, he it’s like he’s experiencing deja VU or something. Like he he’s familiar with the house.

He’s familiar with the people there, Mrs. Foley, which is Elliot’s mother greets him and brings him into this parlor where there are several people gathered and she introduces him to the rest of the guests. Um, there’s a Mrs. Joan Cortland, who is, um, I would guess kind of a younger middle aged. She looks like kind of a, a woman of high class she’s got kind of this dark up do, um, pretty whatever.

Then there’s a Dr. Van Stratton, who is this heavyset. Doctor with glasses. I, I think he’s German or something. He’s got an accent. He has 

Todd: that very stereotypical doctor. Yeah. 

Craig: Sigmund Freud or something. I don’t know. Um, then there’s a guy named Hugh Granger who is a race car driver. He’s tall, dark and handsome.

And then there’s a girl named Sally. Who’s young, probably in her late teens or very early twenties, but she’s obviously played young and he’s acting weird and he’s like, oh, you’re all still here. So it isn’t a dream this time. Like I said, like, it’s just so clearly projected. Like as soon as he says that, you’re like, oh, he’s been through this before.

And they just, they keep reiterating, he keeps talking about it and he keeps predicting things that will happen and they keep happening. Dr. Van 

Todd: psychiatrist. To treat me now, forgive me. I 

Craig: don’t quite understand the joke just in the jail only we should, where I’ve seen you in my dreams. It sounds like a sentimental song.

I’ve dreamed about you over and over again. Doctor, the hardly turns you into a mental case are recurring dreams are quite common, but how did I come to dream about you? And I’ve never sent eyes on you in my life. He says he seen them in his dreams and he says, somebody else will be joining them later. A pretty girl who needs money.

And that ends up happening. And Dr. Van Stratton is the. Cynical realist of the group. And he doesn’t believe any of this, but all of the other guests are at least interested and each of them have had an experience in their life that has been somewhat unexplainable. And so each of them tells their story and that’s what the stories are made up of.

Todd: Although, you know, I think the framing story was like, like, like we said earlier, I don’t think it was meant to be too twisty. Just because, like you said, it’s, it’s projected from the beginning. It’s almost hammered into your head. It’s what the characters discuss is that he believes he’s been here before and that he knows bad things are going to happen after a certain time someone’s going to break their glasses.

All that’s doled out bit by bit, but pretty heavy on in the beginning, I feel like the purpose of the framing story. And this is more the discussion. I thought interesting because every time somebody tells a story or every time he talks about what might happen and what comes up and what ends up happening, Dr.

Van Strutton always has like a scientific explanation for it. You recognize me because you must have seen me in my picture, in the paper earlier, or, you know, this person reminds you so much of a person who, you know, you meant a lot to you in the past and, and brings up that thing of that event. That’s why you get these pictures.

Honestly, these are even modern explanations for deja VU. And so I, I liked this sort of tension between. Um, you know, the movie doesn’t commit to, Hey, this is all supernatural. It seems to relish in, batting it back and forth, and you do get this sense that it like everybody else’s appropriately skeptical, but not nearly as skeptical as the doctor is who just won’t believe anything as supernatural at all, but he’s willing to entertain the stories and give his explanations.

And I actually liked that bit of it. And, and, and so I thought the, I thought the wraparound story was a little more sophisticated than you usually find in these kinds of movies. Think it 

Craig: works really well as a wraparound. You’re right. I agree. I mean, it is a story in itself. It doesn’t feel superfluous.

It’s it’s, it’s fine. Um, and, and I did appreciate too, that the other characters, like you said are appropriately skeptical, but they’re also. Curious because they’ve had these experiences that they can’t really explain either. So they’re at least open to the notion that maybe something could be going on, but they’re not concerned or scared either.

Like, oh, maybe. Okay. Well, 

Todd: I mean, it just conjures up and this is one thing I really like about this movie. Uh, for me movies or escapism. And I think another reason why I like these old movies as it conjures up a different time, it’s like a window in the past. Basically the contemporary past of when this movie was made, when people had a different way of entertaining themselves, you know, we weren’t sitting around watching movies together.

There was no television. You look back on it. It’s very quaint. And these, what would you call them like parlor dramas, right? Where people spend their evenings sitting around the fire, drinking and smoking, and just entertaining each other, trying to tell witty stories and trying to give witty smart observations, but also being very polite and respectful of each other because you don’t want to be rude and have a big argument.

You just want to make sure that everybody is a suitably entertained and, and nothing gets to tell. And, and, and that’s what I kind of liked about this and some of the stories that then therefore come, come about also show you a little bit more of what entertainment was like at this time. And so, uh, yeah, I, I liked that.

I really actually liked coming back to this framing story, almost as much as the individual stories itself, just to see how each of the participants would react and how they would treat each other and discuss what, what they had just heard. 

Craig: And I’ll agree with you that that is refreshing because if this movie were made today, it would not be a group of intelligent adults sitting around telling these stories.

It would be a group of two witty, too cynical. Sexy 20 somethings telling these stories and they would just be too witty for their own good too. And this is a little bit more grounded, you know, these feel like normal, intelligent adults, right. You know, except for Sally. Young, but just a young girl, that’s it.

But the first one to tell a stories, Hugh, and he’s the one who was a race car driver. He tells the story of how he wrecked his car in a race and he was badly hurt and he was hospitalized for some time. There’s some cute banter between him and a nurse, which was giving me all kinds of shades of like farewell to arms.

It’s very Hemingway, you know, with the wounded male, you know, flirting. Cute nurse and harassing the nurse. Oh yeah. Fever really inappropriate. But it was a more innocent time 

Todd: I expected at this time. Oh, man’s in bed. Cute. Nurse comes in and he’s got to, I think it was, you know, a check it off every script from this area.

Both of my, 

Craig: both of my grandfathers served in the military. My mother, his father served in world war II. He faced heavy combat. He was on the front lines. He didn’t like to talk about it, but every once in a while he would tell a little story and. I remember I was very small and, uh, I think that, um, it was probably just me and my dad, because sometimes we would get up very, very early, like three or four in the morning during hunting season and go out to his farm.

And, and he, at that point, like he wasn’t too old to go out. He was just too old to care to go out. So, um, he would get up in the morning, like three or four o’clock in the morning and make us breakfast, but then he would just say, Off. Um, but I remember one time, I don’t remember the context of it all and I wish I did.

I lost him when I was in seventh grade and I wish that I had had the opportunity to talk to him more about these things. But I remember him telling a story about how he had been injured in combat and, um, he was in the field hospital and he had been kind of flirting with this nurse. And, uh, I just remembered that the punchline of the story, and I believe this story to be true was that, you know, they had been kind of flirting and then one evening he woke up and she was in bed with him.

And that’s the, that’s the end of the story as I remember it, but 

Todd: that’s all he cared to tell you every dog ears, right? 

Craig: Oh, he wasn’t telling me he was telling my dad. And, and I can only imagine that my dad made me change the subject quickly. I don’t, I don’t know. But thinking back on it now, I I’m so charmed by that memory.

And I wish I’d had more opportunity, but it’s that kind of deal. And. That’s it like it’s just him in the hospital. What is it? I’m Joe bedtime. Isn’t daunting. I put it to, there’s only one way to kill me feminine. That’s demanded me. There’s no duty. And then she leaves him alone in the hospital. It’s like he hears something outside or something.

And he goes, and he opens the drapes of his windows and he sees a funeral carriage, like an old fashioned, like horse-drawn funeral carriage down below. And he looks down and the driver of the carriage looks up at him and says,

which kind of freaks him out. And he closes the drapes and goes back to his 

Todd: bed. He notices the time on the clock to is four 15. 

Craig: Well, in the time is passing very quickly. Like when he gets up, it’s like four 15 in the morning. But as soon as he goes back to bed, it’s like nine or is it like, just bizarre know.

Something’s not right. Then he goes and sees a psychiatrist and tells them about seeing this a funeral carriage. And the psychiatrist basically tells them that oftentimes when people are in life-threatening accidents or something like that, like death ideation is, is a normal. After effect, but when he leaves the psychiatrist, he goes to a board, a bus, and the Porter on the bus turns to him and it’s the funeral driver.

And he says we only have room for one more, which freaks him out so he doesn’t get on. And then he watches the bus drive away and it drives off bridge. 

Todd: That’s double Decker. English bus goes right off a bridge. It’s not a bad little model actually, to be honest, but, uh, 

Craig: yeah, it looks pretty good, but that’s it like, that’s, it’s just, that’s just his unexplained story, you know, and all of these stories are like that.

They’re all very simple and pretty brief. This is one of the briefer ones, but we can, I feel that we will be able to recap them all almost as quickly as I did that one, because not really a whole lot happens. It’s just kind of spooky situations and they’re they’re anecdotal and that’s, that’s 

Todd: fine. One other important thing was he asked a guy what time it was when he was standing align.

The guy said four 15. So also matched. Yeah. But you’re right. I feel like, um, they put the quicker stories at the beginning and say the longer stories toward the end, which is it’s smart pacing, really, but these stories, some of them end really abruptly, but it makes its point and it moves on, it’s like a very truncated Twilight zone episode, really.

But like you said, these are anecdotal. So you know that in the story, that’s not like they’re going to die. You know, that I die. They know that doesn’t, that’s not gonna happen. So it’s kind of clever how they are able to recount these while making them anecdotal. And it’s funny that you say 

Craig: that because actually having just watched tales from the Korean.

I wondered. I wonder if maybe that this was some sort of purgatory or something, and they were all telling stories that actually resulted in their deaths, but they just were unaware. It’s not, but I did wonder, 

Todd: well, he also had mentioned earlier that a penniless brunette was going to come in at some point when they, when everybody was asking, I’m sorry, I’m, I’m back to the Walter Craig at the, at the wraparound story.

And this woman does come in and mentioned that she didn’t have any money left to pay the fare. What is her name? She is one 

Craig: she’s married to one of them. Who is she? She’s Hugh’s wife. 

Todd: That’s right. That’s right. So she comes in and then, you know, Dr. Van Stratton kind of explains that one away by saying, it’s a joke.

They’re all playing on them, you know, and a bunch of them are denying it and whatever. And he’s like, well, you know, who knows? It’s just kind of a coincidence. The next story is Sally. And. Sally seems like she’s always kind of getting ready to leave. Maybe it’s getting past her bedtime or something, and she’s kind of getting ready to go and they’re kind of encouraging her to go, but she ends up staying because she says that this reminds her of an incident that happened to her that freaked her out.

So then we go to her story and her story. Oh, by the way, did you look up who Sally was? No. Sally is Sally and house and she is truly scrumptious from Chitty Chitty, bang, bang. Oh, 

Craig: that movie, that’s a movie. That’s a movie that we could do on the podcast. It’s not a horror movie. Scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.

No, 

Todd: me too. I wanted to show that. I thought about showing that to my four year old. And then I was like, Hmm, no, I don’t think that movies read the keys a old enough yet. 

Craig: I saw it at school. They showed it to us in school. And that child catcher gave me not like I was probably watching nightmare on Elm street at home.

And then they showed me Chitty, Chitty, bang, bang at school. And I was terrified. 

Todd: Oh no, it was a terrifying movie for a kid. The child catch her in that he’s creepy. But she, um, she, it’s kind of cute. Actually. She actually died in the. Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah. She died in December and apparently she was married to this man that was just the love of her life.

And they were inseparable starting in the seventies, I guess her, her nephew or whoever said that, as soon as he died, it was like, she just went like two months later. It happens a lot. I think she was cute though. And I liked her story. I liked her story too. 

Craig: It’s a classic ghost story. Yeah. I mean, it’s just a classic ghost 

Todd: story.

It’s great. She’s at a Christmas party at a mansion and it’s a bunch of kids and they’re all running around and they all have costumes on. It’s so cute. And there’s somebody playing the piano, you know? I mean, it was just so interesting. This sort of child entertainment and they say one of the, one of the boys, I don’t remember his name says, Hey, let’s play sardines.

And she’s like what sardines? And he says, well, it’s like hide and seek because you, who wants to be it. And she’s like, oh, I’ll, I’ll run and hide. So she runs off and hides and the kids all count and she goes upstairs, kind of to the landing and gets behind a curtain in front of a window. And this boy is the first one to find her.

And he 

Craig: it’s. All right, 

Todd: I’ll stop here 

Craig: with you. When somebody else finds this, they pack into like sardine Kona, that 

Todd: better. Yeah, this kid is still kind of trying to Mack on her as well. 

Craig: And the very 1940s innocent way. It’s cute. I mean, it’s just, it’s very, it’s very youthful and flirty. Yeah. 

Todd: And it’s cute and she’s being very debonair and she’s like, she stands up, you know, and it’s like, well, he’s like, wait a minute.

I have a better place. And I’m like, yeah, I bet you sure do. And they run upstairs to like the attic. Oh, his name is. I think, and he tells her that there was a horrible murder that actually that happened in this mansion and in this very spot that a boy was found with his head cut off. And some, uh, his sister or some girl had, had cut his throat or something.

She kind of runs around and he runs out. I don’t remember exactly how it ends up, but she ends up going deeper into the attic. And there’s like a door that it’s down this old hallway that looks like it hasn’t been used in a while. 

Craig: Hind a wardrobe. I thought that was kind of interesting. Like she, I, I don’t remember if she moved to the wardrobe or if like she opened the wardrobe and there was a hidden door inside.

Um, but it was kind of hidden away. And when she goes in at first, I thought like a bedroom, she later describes it as. Uh, nursery, which makes sense. And again, like, yeah, like, like I said, I mean, it’s just, it’s just classic 

Todd: ghost story stuff. Yeah. And it’s this little boy who’s crying, uh, sitting on a, on a chair and he says, his name is Francis Kent and he’s upset.

And he says, oh, I thought you were my sister Constance. I didn’t notice her either. 

Craig: Probably had to go see much younger than me. I wish you were my sister also kind of you, Sean kind, your daughter. She hates me. She said she got to kill. Oh, again, you’re tonic her hand. 

Todd: She tucks him into bed at night, sings him a song and walks out in the meantime, the kids are downstairs and they’re all together getting ready to eat.

And they’re like, wait a minute. Where did, where is she? And he, and he’s like, oh, I need to run back up and find her. So she comes down as he goes back up. And I swear as she leaves the room, I don’t know if it was just a portrait or what, but I thought I saw a girl in the background. I, 

Craig: I did not notice, but I did read that.

Yes, she is kind of lingering in the back. 

Todd: Yeah. I did a bit of a double-take and I was like, Ooh, that was creepy. But I think, I thought I wrote it off as a portrait that had been like set on the ground. Anyway, she comes downstairs and she explains to the house mom or whatever that, uh, you know, she met the boy can’t upstairs.

She’s like, what are you talking about? And, uh, she’s told by them that Francis can’t was murdered by his sister Constance. And then the day ends. That’s it? I mean, you kind of want a little bit more, right? Like, oh, are they all gonna rush upstairs? The room is empty or, you know, what’s, what’s going to happen.

But, but no, it just ends right there. That’s a little disappointing. I think that’s a weakness of the story is that it doesn’t feel satisfying conclusion. Well, yeah, 

Craig: but at the same time, I mean, I feel like that is typical of older ghost stories where it’s just like, she’s been dead for 50 is 

Todd: it’s like urban legend, scary stories to tell in the dark kind of material.

Right. Right. 

Craig: Which is, which is cute. And that’s one of the stories that was cut for the American release, which I don’t know how they made those decisions because I found that story to be one of the more charming ones. Apparently that’s not the ghost part obviously, but the, the murder was based on a true story.

This teen girl, teenage girl murdered her. Toddler brother. I think he was like four or something like that. And well, she can, she confessed to the murder. And then I guess there were all kinds of theories that maybe she had been coerced into confessing, or she had confessed to protect somebody else in her family or something like that.

But it’s kind of an unsolved thing. I don’t know. It’s kind of interesting. Yeah. 

Todd: And then we dive back into the wraparound story and I thought they did something kind of cute here because Craig mentions that, uh, oh, by the way, like Sally is going to get whisked away 

Craig: here. Well, he says that he doesn’t remember exactly what happens, but all he remembers is that at some point he hits Sally really hard.

Um, he says, but I don’t understand. How that could happen because you’re going to leave soon. And then she does her mother shows up and whisks her away. And her mother is hilarious. 

Todd: Your mother is funny, but, but they try to short, short circuit it, right? They say, oh, well then this is going to break the spell.

Or what has one person says, then we’re just going to make insist that Sally stays and she’s like, all right, then I’m staying. And like you said, her mother comes in and just very insistently says, you gotta, you gotta get going. You gotta get go. And you got a party to get to tomorrow or something like that.

And she won’t take no for an answer. So she whisks her away. So that ends up coming true. And that’s cute. You’re right. Her mother is hilarious, 

Craig: but there, but there’s still kind of the mystery. Cause he says, he knows that he hits her, but now she’s gone. So you like, is she going to come back? You know, I didn’t know what was going on, but then it jumps right into Joan’s story immediately.

I 

Todd: think the movies kind of does an interesting subversion here because you’ve gotten to stories that are still. I mean they’re sinister, but they’re still pretty light and tone. And I feel like this third story took a turn for the dark. I, 

Craig: I guess, I don’t know. I mean, you’ve said a couple of times now Twilight zone and, and the old original Twilight zone.

That is very much what this reminds me of, you know, spooky and creepy, but Tang well and a 

Todd: variety and a variety. Yes. There were Twilight zone episodes that were just like comedic. Yes. And we get some of that here too 

Craig: later. And there were some that were, you know, more Saifai and there was some that were more horror.

Like there, there was a variety, I’ve always liked the twilights. And I’ve like, I haven’t seen the most recent iteration, you know, every 10, 20 years they revive it. And, um, I remember watching it in the eighties and I liked it. So it’s not that I don’t like this type of stuff. And it’s really not even that I don’t like this movie.

I just didn’t love it. But Joan’s story again, really? Not anything that you haven’t seen before. It’s about a haunted mirror. There are, I mean, my goodness, how many movies and stories that we read about haunted mirror is a bazillion. Okay. So she bought her husband, this old mirror for his birthday and they hang it up in their bedroom.

And when he initially, when they, when they both initially look in it together, he kind of acts like he sees something strange in it, but they just brushed it off. But then when he’s alone, he looks into the mirror and he sees himself reflected in it. The mirror reflects and shows him in an unfamiliar room.

It is not the room that he’s 

Todd: in. Not at all the room he’s in is very plain. Oh, 

Craig: very, yes. Little to nothing on the walls. It’s basically just a bed in a room, but the room that was reflected back is ornate. Like, it looks like a room in a old mansion or a castle or something. It’s got a, a very heavy four poster canopy bed and, um, like a dressing table and handled walls, fireplace.

Oh yeah. Fireplace, all kinds of ornate decorations and furnishings. And the first time he sees it, he kind of does the thing that people do in movies. Probably in real life, he squeezes his eyes closed real tight and kinda rubs them. And he opens his eyes and it’s gone, but he tells Joan about it at dinner.

They just shrug it off. But he sees it again later that night. And when he tries to make it go away, it won’t. And then Joan is like narrating the story. She says, well, and then some time went by, we were really busy planning our wedding and we were looking for a new house, but she says pier all along was acting strange and kind of irritable.

He calls 

Todd: her a nag at one point. 

Craig: Yeah. Uncharacteristically. Like he just kind of, she says something. I mean, no. Offensive at all. And he just snaps at her and he, and she calls him on it and, and he apologizes and he just says, I haven’t been sleeping well. And he tells her, he tells her what’s going on with the mirror.

And he says, now it’s gotten worse. And he sees it every night and he can’t make it go away. And he says, and I feel like there’s something like the mirror is trying to draw me in. He says, it’s like, there’s something waiting for me. On the other side, something he, the, 

Todd: uh, 

Craig: she offers to get rid of it, which.

Easy solution idea. Um, but he’s like, oh no, no, I’m sure it’s just in my head, but well, maybe, but maybe we should postpone the wedding. 

Todd: I love that. And he’s like, he’s like something about, you know, maybe you should just divorce me now or whatever. And she says, look, she says my favorite line in this movie.

It’s I loved it 

Craig: a little bit too fast for me. Let’s get the wedding over and then we can start making divorce arrangements afterwards, but that was a great 

Todd: line, but she, she kind of curious her mother, at least they think that he she’s cured him of it because she says, look, describe it to me. And he describes there’s the four poster.

There’s the, whatever, you know, it, it has the vines running up. The top of it carved into the, into the posts and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she says, well, come over here and look at it with me, with me in there. And the thing is he can’t see her in the mirror, even when he’s, she’s standing right next to him, but she holds his hand.

And that somehow seems to kind of break the spell. And when she holds his hands, suddenly he can see the room again, the 

Craig: actual room, not the ghost 

Todd: room or whatever, right. The actual room. So at this point, the reason they don’t get rid of the mirror, I think is he thinks that they’ve gotten over it.

They’ve solved it. And it’s all in his mind. Anyway, this is another story I think, where he’s going to see a psychologist, right. And the psychologist is trying to explain a way it’s, what’s going on. Just says your mental state is weird right now because of blah-blah-blah. I don’t remember the reason he gives, but no.

Craig: Well, you know, they’re getting married, they’re moving, you know, there’s all kinds of change going on. They get married and, um, they moved to a new house and take the mirror with them and she needs to she’s going on a trip to visit her mother. And she was. Him to go with her and tries to convince him to go with her, but he won’t.

And once she’s gone, the ghostly room is back when he looks in the mirror and while she’s away visiting her mother, I don’t know if her mother lives in the same city. I, I, it doesn’t matter. But she happens to walk by the shop where she got the mirror and looking in the window. She notices that the bed from the ghostly room, which he had described to her in detail, she notices that it’s in there.

And so she goes, and she talks to the shop owner about it, and she asks about the mirror and she asks about the bed. And he’s like, funny, you should ask because they both came from the same estate. And the shop holder says they, that they both belong to the same guy and this guy was disabled in an accident.

And then he went crazy because he believed his wife was being unfaithful. And so. He strangled his wife and killed her and then sat down in front of the mirror and slit his own throat, which freaks her out 

Todd: currently. So this is framed really well, by the way, the cinematography in this movie, the lighting, everything is really good.

And I love the way that this is framed because as he’s standing and talking to her and she’s sitting there and the camera slowly dialing in on them, you see the portrait of this guy who he’s talking about, you know, this 1836 guy or whatever between them kind of stare. Between them at them, as he’s telling the story, it’s like a little shadow hanging over him, telling the story it’s suitably creepy, I think.

But yeah, she returns home and he is not himself. He is sitting there and he’s talking about how he’s been, you know, stuck in this room and you know, you, you were gone. Oh, I know you, you know, I know why you were gone. You were gone to see, I don’t know, so-and-so he basically accuses her of being unfaithful.

He goes crazy. And uh, he says he’s going to end things and he picks up his, a scarf or something and stands up and starts to strain. And so they have a tussle in front of the mirror and she grabs a candlestick and swings it at the mirror and shatters the mirror, which breaks the spell. And she walks over and kind of like starts to somewhat gingerly, pull the mirror apart.

Craig: And she talks about it’s all rotten, like the wood behind the frame is all rotten and stuff. Well, 

Todd: yeah, I was just like, Ooh, careful, careful. Don’t cut yourself. 

Craig: Well, right. But I guess in an interview decades later, she talked about how she only had one take to do this because it was not within their budget.

To replace the mirror and do it again. And so she said, so I just went to town on it,

which I thought was great, but the spell is broken and that’s again, that’s it. That’s the end 

Todd: of the story. Yeah. But, but after this, I think that the interstitial like visibly gets darker. It’s darker outside, but like I said, this story is a little darker and it, it clearly they’re moving towards a more dark tone overall with the movie 

Craig: in this very brief back to the frame story, very briefly, van Stratton is still very skeptical and, and has a rational explanation for everything.

But Walter is the, you know, the paranoid guy is, is scared and he wants to leave. He feels like leaving is the only way that he can break. Spell or whatever it is, but van Stratton says that he should stay or else the delusion wins. And as Walter is trying to leave Elliot kind of sidesteps him and gets him to stay by launching into his story.

And you said that, you know, at this point, the movie is getting darker, but street, then this story Elliot’s story is a comedy it’s comedy. Yeah. I mean, again, it’s kind of a classic ghost story, but it’s a comic 

Todd: ghost story. Well, and this is also pretty typical of a lot of the anthology, not a lot, but many of the anthologies we’ve seen where suddenly they’ll throw a comedic thing in to sort of lighten the mood a little bit.

And I suppose the idea is that they’re creating some balance or things are getting a little too frightening for the audience. So we need to lighten it up a little bit before we, you know, before we end it. I 

Craig: mean, it is typical of anthology, film, man anthology. Series because you kind of never know what you’re going to get.

It’s always a hodgepodge of things and sometimes there’ll be dark and serious and sometimes there’ll be lightened comedic. I mean, tales from the crypt was like that too. And that was one of the things that I liked about it. Sometimes those episodes were really funny and this one is funny, but again, it’s just so old school that I think it’s just kind of before my time.

I mean, it’s not as farcical, but it’s a little bit kind of like Abbott and Costello kind of stuff. 

Todd: It’s also very much, I think, a product of its time because it’s actually a reference to some well-known characters from an other movie. 

Craig: Well, the, these, these two actors, I think we’re known for playing to other care.

Like they, they, they worked together and had kind of this character duo and I think that they are playing basically their famous roles. They just changed the names to. Like copyright infringement 

Todd: or what exactly. Yeah. They were like obsessed with cricket and they were characters on the train in the lady vanishes the 1938 Alfred Hitchcock version.

They have played those characters sometimes under different names, sometimes obsessed with a different sport, but the same guys, essentially playing the same characters in lots of different movies and even on stage. So this, this would be a reference that nobody today would get, but maybe people at the time would have been charmed by a, and so they maybe knew what they were getting, uh, instantly sense sort of this goofy, silly story about these two guys.

We’re obsessed with golf and both rapidly, fall in love with the same woman, 

Craig: right. They’re best friends, but then this beautiful woman, Mary comes in between them and they are both smitten with her and she smitten with both of them and can’t decide which one to pick. So they decide that they will play a round of golf and whoever wins wins her.

And she’s like, yes, that’s a perfect 

Todd: idea. Might as well flip a coin. But yeah, so, 

Craig: so they played golf, um, and they get to the last hole and it’s very close George wins, but Larry thinks that he cheated. And so. He just walks into the water hazard and drowns 

Todd: himself just slowly walks into the lake until he’s under the water.

And just his hat is floating into the top. Yep. 

Craig: Just casually. Nobody says anything. Nobody tries to stop him, like, guess he’s dead now. Okay. So, so then Mary is with George and George is out playing golf before they get married and he hears Larry’s voice by the water has the all right. I returned from my watery grave on, and then there’s very comedic scene where the ghost is like messing with the golf ball.

And these, you know, I will say the terrible effects only because they’re a product of their time. I mean, for the time fine. But like the ball is floating around. The, the actor is acting like he’s trying to swing his golf club, but something is like preventing him, like some, like some ghostly forces holding onto his club and then the golf ball, like they do this hilarious thing where the two actors on screen, like just track the golf ball with their eyes, like swinging in a big circle.

And then it lands right back in front of them. It’s really funny. And then eventually, uh, Larry appears to George in the lodge saying that he’ll haunt him forever. He’ll go away under two conditions that he leaves. And then he gave up golf. He’s 

Todd: already to leave Mary. Well, I guess what I got to do, but he’s like give up golf and he’s just like throws his chair backwards.

It goes crazy. I might as well be dead. Oh, it’s really hilarious actually. Oh, 

Craig: it was really funny. And then George was basically like, listen, come on. I realized that what I did to you was bad, but we were friends or forever cut me a break. And Larry’s like, ah, you know what? You’re right. I’ll leave you alone.

And he tries to disappear, but he can’t, like he says, he can’t remember 

Todd: how, like what gestures he has to use or something. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s all very silly and slapsticky, but George is trying to help him. And of course, you know, like the bartender sees him and he looks ridiculous and looks crazy. And Larry says, well, I guess if I can’t disappear, I’m just going to be with you forever.

And I have to be within six feet of you. The rules. So George and Mary get married and then they’re on their honeymoon is Larry. And Larry’s just, they’re like sitting on the couch next to them, encouraging George to get romantic with Mary. But like George can’t cause like his friend is just sitting there on the couch 

Todd: with it’s funny, I’ve eat.

She he’s like kissing, you know, he’s covering his eyes while George was kissing her. And then, um, he’s like, oh, come on. This is crazy. And she’s like, well, I think it’s about time for me to me to turn in for the night. And he’s like, yeah, I guess I’m the time for me to turn into. So they start to walk towards the bedroom door and of course, you know, uh, Larry is following right behind them.

And George is like, come on, man. You can’t come in here. And he’s like, sorry, man. I don’t make the rules at six feet. Then he says something to kind of trick him. And, uh, Larry kind of stands there and isn’t paying attention. George goes into the. Further than six feet shuts the door. Suddenly Larry disappears and immediately George and Larry come walking out of the room again.

Cause he reappeared apparently right next to George. It was funny. I really liked this byplay actually, 

Craig: it was funny. It was cute. George tries to help Larry figure out how to disappear and accidentally makes himself disappear. So hilarious. Like, oh man, what do I do? Well I’m guess I go to bed with Mary and he walks towards the bedroom.

End of story. A funny back to the frame story. Brent van Stratton tells Walter that if something horrible were to have happened, it should have already happened because all of the things that Walter had predicted have already come true. And if they’ve already come true, then the evil should have already happened or whatever.

Yeah. So van Stratton tells his story, which again is very typical. We’ve seen this story before, but I thought that it was well done here. I think that maybe this one was my favorite one. This 

Todd: is the first time we’ve really seen this story. This was the inspiration for countless stories like it afterwards movies and stories 

Craig: like magic with Anthony Hopkins.

Todd: It’s very groundbreaking. I think there, 

Craig: there are a bunch of them, but it’s okay. So van Stratten tells this story. There was this guy named Maxwell for. Who was a ventriloquist who is accused of attempted murder van Stratton, being a doctor is called into like examine him. And Frere says before, he’ll talk you once it’s dummy back.

And so the police give van Stratton this, um, statement from a guy named ki who it turns out was the guy that tried to murder. But I don’t know if we know that initially through the statement we find out that he went to see for air perform and fair is very popular. Um, well known than Trilla Quist, and he’s doing his thing with Hugo, the dummy that you can just kind of tell from the beginning that the dummy is RO that Frere is really not in control of what the dummy does or says, and he kind of just has to roll with it 

Todd: sort of sweating it, you know, and I actually, God, I thought the acting was fantastic in this one.

The guy 

Craig: who plays Frere does a really 

Todd: good job. Yeah. He’s Michael Redgrave, Vanessa Redgrave’s father, you know, to sir, sir, Michael Redgrave, you know, back when it was pretty rare to actually be like knighted for acting he’s, you know, like kind of a peer of Lawrence, Olivia and those folks. I mean, he is well decorated, very, very famous acting dynasty family.

So I just, I was totally taken in by his thing. And I also felt like. At times it was a little nebulous. Like, I feel like I’m watching a horror movie. I expect this to be supernatural, but I’m still not quite sure if the dummy itself has its own personality or if he still is sort of like himself, maybe like has kind of a multi-part personality thing.

And he’s kind of a psychological thing, you know, I found my. In the psychologist shoes for the first time, kind of arguing for the rational explanation as I was watching this. 

Craig: Yeah. And I think that they it’s intentionally a little bit ambiguous, especially at the end, what happens is the ventriloquist and the dummy are conversing with people in the audience.

And when they talk to this guy key, it turns out that key is also a ventriloquist and Hugo, the dummy immediately takes interest in him and start saying like, um, maybe I’ll leave this dumb ass and, and join you. And he, you know, plays along like, yeah. Okay. Whatever. And then it seems like. The dummy goes totally rogue.

Like they’re supposed to sing a song and the dummy refuses to sing and Frere is like visibly anxious. Like he’s sweating and clearly nervous. And he eventually just retreats off stage. And then the dummy peaks back out from behind the curtain, it was like, Hey key, come see me back in my dressing room, we’ve got to talk or whatever.

And so he does go back there to talk to him. And at first he hears the dummy, talking to him and Frere is nowhere to be found. And the dummy says a couple of things to him before he locates where the dummy is sitting,

let’s get down. And when he locates where the dummy is sitting, he doesn’t say anything more at that point. And for air comes out of the bathroom and he’s like, oh, you’ll have to teach me that trick. And the guy’s like, oh, did he talk to you? What did he say? And he’s like, oh, ha ha. Very funny. But then a later.

Frere is out at the bar, presumably of this hotel that they’re staying at or whatever. And, um, he’s drunk and he’s just got the dummy sitting there next to him. And these women come in with this guy and it seems like they are a little boozy too, and they recognize Frere. And one of them goes over and starts messing with the dummy a little bit.

And the dummy says some of noxious things to her and she’s offended and goes back and tells the guy that she’s with, you know, go defend my honor or whatever. And he does, he goes over to Frere and starts, you know, threatening him. And the dummy continues to say insulting things. So this guy gets up and fares face, but ki kind of gets in between them and gets them away and takes for upstairs.

To his room. And for as completely drunk, he puts him in bed, covers him up, sits the dummy on the bed with him. And then he goes back to his room in the middle of the night. There’s frantic knocking on his door and he opens it up and it’s Frere. And he’s like, where is he? I know you have him. And he’s like, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

But eventually fairs, like looking around the room and he finds Hugo the dummy and Ky is obviously surprised. Like he has no idea how he got there, but Frere is incensed picks up the dummy, but then pulls a gun and shoots key several 

Todd: times. I thought he was dead. 

Craig: Yeah. So then van stadion after reading, this wants to truck to Frere again.

And so he goes to his jail cell and he brings Hugo with him. And at first. Frere is afraid of the dummy. Like he gets up and like retreats into a corner of the room, but they lock the dummy in there with them and van stadion watches them talk to one another. And the dummy is really mean like talking about how he’s going to leave for air and there to rod.

And he’s going to go find key and they’re going to have a great career and maybe they’ll visit him in the loony bin or whatever as van Stalin’s watching and eventually calling for the orderlies Frere tries to smother Hugo and eventually stomps his head. And then apparently some time passes and then startin brings key.

The guy who was shot to visit Frere, hoping that seeing him will cure him or something. I don’t know, a little 

Todd: nebulous, isn’t it. 

Craig: What’s going on. We see that since the stomping of the Dunham. Frere has been catatonic. He’s just sitting in a bed, staring off into space. They try to talk to him. And when he realizes, when Frere realizes that it’s key, that’s there to see him.

He starts talking to him, but he has this frozen kind of smile on his face. And when he talks it’s Hugo’s voice. So it’s like, I don’t know, like he either Hugo has possessed for lack of a better word Frere, or there was some psychological maybe if, if you know, your theory is correct, maybe it was psychological all the time.

Maybe it was like a split personality, kind of 

Todd: it’s a very well constructed a bit because there’s never a moment where the dummy talks like where his, the dummy’s mouth is moving, the dummies being animated where Frere doesn’t have his hands on it. 

Craig: We never see. I mean, the, the dummy talks to ki 

Todd: when he first comes into the room, but he doesn’t move his mouth.

No mouth isn’t 

Craig: moving or at least we don’t see it. We don’t, we don’t see him talking at all. We just. Yeah, right. We never see him animated. We never see him animated if the other guy is 

Todd: exactly. So it’s still a little nebulous. Exactly. What’s going on. I want to believe as a possessed dummy, but, uh, gosh, Redgrave really sells this one, man.

He really sells it and it’s very Nat. I think very naturalistic acting, actually, he’s just sweating bullets and you just see his breakdown. He’s drunk at one point, you know, he’s just nervous. He’s just doesn’t even seem to be there. You know, like his mind is on other things, fantastic acting. And we can’t talk about this episode without mentioning Biola, the character of baby.

Oh, yeah. Who is, um, an actually an African-American actress in a shockingly progressive role for an, for a person of color at this time who are normally relegated to dumb little comedic roles or your 

Craig: surface roles, right? 

Todd: Yeah. She is like the owner of this club or something she’s like super successful or is she a singer in there?

She talks with. Very glamorous standing here right next to these, these aliased actors holding her own. She gets a bit of a song number in there. It’s actually kind of clever. Like she starts singing a song and I thought, oh, this is charming. Are we going to be treated to an entire musical number in the middle of this?

But you know, after about a minute of that, then it cuts to that whole scene that happens in Fair’s dressing room. And it’s like, the length of that scene is the length of her song. You can hear it faintly in the background the whole time. And then by the time they come out, it cuts back to her and she finishes the tune.

It’s really, really cute. Clever, 

Craig: I think the whole very progressive for 1945, like incredibly progressive, 

Todd: this woman got really lucky. I mean, don’t get me wrong. She’s very talented. But like, even that didn’t often matter. And, uh, and she had a lot of big roles, uh, in screen and on stage and live a much better.

Life as an African American actress than most of her peers at this time. So I, and this movie was one of her first big roles where it, where she did that and even reviews at the time kind of mentioned how she was a bright star in this film. So 

Craig: kudos to her and kudos to the filmmakers. That’s great. And then it goes back to, uh, the frame story where everything pays.

Um, van Stotten breaks his glasses as was predicted the lights dim as was predicted. And Walter says it’s started. And then for some reason, he requests to be left alone with van Stotten, like he just wants to talk to him alone and like, okay. And so they all leave, Walter. I don’t know, he talks a little bit, but basically it’s like, I knew this was going to happen.

It was inevitable. And now I have an urge to kill you and he strangles him with something and then he starts running through the house. But actually what he runs through is all the stories, which is really kind of cool. Like he, he runs through these scenarios that we had seen. So he runs through the Christmas party.

And as he’s running through the Christmas party, he bumps into Sally who starts screaming. And so he punches her and knocks her out as he predicted he would earlier in the movie he runs through, I think all of them. But he ends up in the cell Freres cell from the last story. And Hugo is in there, but this time Hugo is played by what must be a little person or a child.

So he’s definitely wearing some sort of dummy head mask, but he gets up and walks towards him and hovers over him. And then Hugo starts start. It was very creepy. Hugo starts strangling him. And then all of a sudden you hear the sound of an alarm clock. And Walter wakes up in his bed in his home. His wife is there and immediately he gets a telephone call from a guy named Elliot.

Asking him to come do a consultation at Pilgrim’s farm. And Walter says to his wife, I wonder why that sounds so familiar. And then it just cuts back to the opening scene where you see his car approaching this state and you see him stop in front of it and look at it quizzically. And then the end comes up on the screen and that’s it.

I mean, like it was, it was obvious that that was going to happen, but at the same time, it was a little satisfying to actually see it play 

Todd: out. Well, interestingly enough, an odd bit of trivia is that this movie directly inspired three mathematicians and astronomers to come up with the steady state theory of the universe.

These guys are Thomas gold, Fred Hoyle and Hermann Bondi, who, uh, were discussing with one another. Hey, wait. Do you see that movie dead of night? Maybe this is how the universe really is. It’s constantly in a steady state and just looping back on itself. And from a physics perspective, the idea is that although the universe is expanding, the matter is constantly being created and forming new galaxies.

So that the average number of galaxies in any part of the universe is, is approximately the same really interesting. I don’t know. I don’t know how much credence that’s given nowadays, but, uh, to think that this horror movie inspired this notion is kind of 

Craig: cute. Yeah. I mean, when all is said and done, and gosh, this happens all the time and I always feel kind of stupid and redundant saying it, but talking it out with you makes me appreciate it even more.

I do appreciate it for what it is. I think that it. Good storytelling, charming storytelling, a different style of acting, but well done on the less. I’m not going to watch it again. I don’t know that I would necessarily recommend it to my friends, but it was not a waste of my time. It’s an interesting kind of charming piece of nostalgia that, you know, gives you some, a window into a different time.

And I do love these, uh, anthology movies. And if this in any way, paved the way for those movies that I love, then I am grateful for that. And so, um, I’m not mad about it, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t hate it. I’m not mad at you for picking it, not my cup of tea, but, uh, I get it. I get why it’s been well received.

I get why it has a following. I understand why you picked it. I’ll go as far as it’s a good. 

Todd: It is good. I mean, it’s definitely good. I mean, technically it’s great. Seriously. The cinematography, the lighting is very moody. It’s very well done. Very well thought out. The acting is top-notch, even though it’s a different style of acting than we’re used to, these are all beautiful people doing a fantastic job and highly influential.

We rattle off a whole bunch of ways that this movie influenced the movies that came after it. You remember that movie triangle that took place on that boat? Yep. This movie directly inspired Christopher Smith who wrote and directed that, that movie for its concept, Martin Scorsese puts this as like number five on his list of the 11th scariest, horror movies.

I don’t know how that could be, but I think what he probably means is just movies that he thinks has a, have a, have a deep impact or impacted him. So, yeah, it’s very well respected, I think for very good reason. And, uh, I found it enjoyable to watch and I’m glad we watched a long version, but I would say I was ready for it to be done by the time it was done.

And I thought that, like you said, the last one was definitely the best. It was the most complex and most interesting. It was the one that had me guessing the most wondering where it was going to go and whether this was supernatural or whether this was just a freaky guy and just ventriloquist dummies.

They’re just creepy. Yeah. Yeah. Really enjoyed it. And I’m glad this could be, uh, uh, dive way back into the past to a bit of the origins of our horror anthology series coming up, we have one more selected for you. That’s definitely going to be a bit more modern and we hope you’ve enjoyed what we’ve been doing this month.

If you do enjoy it, please find us online. Just Google two guys, and a chainsaw. Find our website, find our Facebook page, our Twitter feed, let us know what you think. Let us know some anthologies we should review, and we will come back and revisit this, this topic from time to time. Of course, there’s a lot of them out there until next time.

I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

The second of our month of horror anthologies is a long-time childhood favorite of both Craig and Todd.

Stephen King and George Romero collaborated on this sequel to Creepshow, their answer to Tales from the Crypt, which we (coincidentally) tackled last week. The result is three solid tales of the supernatural where the bad guys get what is coming to them.

Creepshow 2 (1987)

Episode 285, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Welcome to another edition of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig

Todd: and I’m Todd.

Craig: And here we are in our second week of our anthology month, I picked the movie this week. Uh, we’ve been talking about doing this theme for a long time and every time we’ve talked about it, there’s always been one movie on my list that I wanted to do.

And that movie is Creepshow 2 from 1987. Now we could have gone. With creep show one creep show. One is a good movie. I like it a lot. Um, but Creepshow 2 is a movie that I grew up on. Uh, I saw it when I was little and I saw it well before I saw creep show one. I don’t think I saw creeps show one until I was an adult.

And I just always, as a kid, I really liked this movie. There were, there was one segment in particular that always did and still does creep me. And so I decided to buck tradition and skip the first one goes straight to the second one, the horror, and here we are. Creepshow is basically George Romero and Stephen King’s answer to Tales from the Crypt.

Uh, in fact, initially they had considered remaking that film, but eventually they decided to go with original shorts of their own. The stories are written or at least outlined by Stephen King, the screenplay. Uh, is by Romero and this movie is directed by Michael Gornick. Like I said, I grew up with it. I have no idea when I saw it first, but I think I was very young and I don’t remember if it played on TV a lot.

We had HBO, maybe it played on HBO. I don’t know, but I’ve seen this movie many, many times. Um, and it’s also one that I just kind of go to if I can’t find anything else to watch. And I just want to put on something to have in the background. I love it. So what’s your history? 

Todd: Well, I, um, I saw Creepshow 1 first. I saw Creepshow one when I was a younger kid, that being said, I owned Creepshow 2 on videotape.

And so I think it was either shortly before high school. I think it was starting maybe in middle school or maybe it was during my high school years. Um, that creep show too was a regular watch for me. Uh, so we had creep show two and quite a bit. And so just like you, I’m definitely more familiar with Creepshow 2 in the memory banks than I am with the first Creepshow.

I’ve seen them many, many more times. I was actually shocked to find out how old this movie was. I did not think it was 1987. I thought for sure, this was like 91, 92, perhaps, but you don’t, you wouldn’t know it. I mean, it it’s more or less a holds up today. Really, there’s not a single episode in here that feels dated in any way.

And so, uh, it does really kind of stand the test of time and in, in that way, I, I, and that was my shocker when watching this, uh, this time around. So I hadn’t seen it for gosh, probably a decade or two. So I was really happy to revisit it this time. And I do forgive you for watching the second one and ahead of the first one, even though I will frankly admit that the first one is my favorite.

I think the first one is a little more fun. This one’s fun. Don’t get me wrong. I think the first one’s a little more fun, a little more playful has more stories. And, um, for some reason the stories in the first one really hit me a lot harder than they do in, in the second 

Craig: one. So, well, I think that, I think they both, each of them has three stories.

I think that both of them were,

Todd: no, that’s not true. First one has five.

Craig: Oh I see. And I thought that, uh, Intended to have five and only ended up with three. But anyway, this one was five stories were considered, but only three were filmed and we only get three. I think that all three of them, uh, are good. This, you know, it is an anthology film and much like tales from the crypt, which we did last week.

Uh, there’s a wraparound story and I, I don’t know. I just, there’s so many charming things about this movie. It opens on a dark wet street. I don’t know. It looks like small town America, but it’s dreary. Um, you see this, a big truck coming down the street being followed by, um, a kid, a little kid on a bike.

The truck stops in front of this general store, I guess, and this scary guy, uh, the creep, uh, Tom Savini and some major prosthetics is yeah. Is delivering these packages of Creepshow comics. And this little boy Billy is, is patiently waiting the creep kind of teases him and says, and he was so patient building your real life, depended on getting the first copy off the precedent for he throws the package down.

And then the movie switches from live action to cartoon, which I just, I love. And like it’s old school. Animation, um, like Scooby-Doo or something like that. 

Todd: TV animation. 

Craig: Yeah. But it’s fun. And, uh, then the, the, the opening credits roll over comic cells, uh, which actually preview all three of the stories from the movie.

Um, and then the creep addresses us directly welcome kitties to another edition of creep show. Um, and it really, it jumps right into the first story, um, which is old chief wouldn’t head

Todd: when this first opened up. Cause I, you know, I knew the story was coming. I knew it was the first one. And I was thinking, gosh, I wonder how. David, this is going to be, I wonder how offensive this story is going to turn out to be, you know, in 2022. And I was kind of surprised to find out, I mean, I think in my opinion, no, I don’t think it’s, uh, you know, even though we’re dealing with the native Americans here, um, I don’t think that the story is as, uh, offensive as I thought it might be towards native Americans.

Craig: No, it’s not. It doesn’t paint Native Americans in a bad light at all. 

Todd: Not 

Craig: at all. You know, what, what surprised me watching it this time around was how sweet this story is in the beginning. Yes. It, and even like the score is very, I don’t even know how to describe it. It, it, it feels more like an afterschool special kind of yeah.

In 

Todd: tone, very. Sweeping and dramatic for it, you know, actually a very small story. Right. But, um, but it, it, it goes in lots of places. It’s not your typical horror score where it’s just all synth and S and spooky right there. These moments. Niceness to it. I, it is, it kind of reminded me a little bit of, I remember being similarly shocked by the S the entro score on a house and sorority row, and just how sweeping and, and orchestral that score was.

And it just puts you in a happy place at the beginning of this horror movie. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. It’s, it’s simple. It feels like a touching small towns story, and that’s kind of what it is. There’s this, it’s a very, very small, um, town, uh, I guess at one point it was kind of an up and coming town, but I don’t know things haven’t gone well, and lots of people have moved away and there’s just not a lot of people left and the general.

Is run by a man named Ray played by George Kennedy. Most of the actors in this movie have had prolific careers. Yeah. Some of them were already really well established when they made this movie. Some of them went on, but like you, you look at the cast list and you look at their filmography fees. And so many of these actors, uh, have worked for forever and are still working.

Um, they may not be a list celebrities, but they are working actors. Um, George Kennedy is very recognizable. He was in airport. He was in the naked gun movies, sweet old guy. And when we find him, he’s touching up the war paint on like the cigar store, Indian outside his shop, his wife, Martha who’s played by Dorothy.

Kind of a starlet of the silver screen starting, I think in the thirties or forties and, um, worked all of her life. This was actually her last film. She wants Ray to close the store down because the town is dying and she says, you know, he’s, he did everything he could for this community. And it’s time for him to take time for himself and his grandkids and that type of stuff.

But he wants to hang on to it. This man shows up this native American man been white moon and he gives Ray this packet full of. Tribal Juul. And he says, these are all of my people’s most treasured heirlooms, uh, or whatever. And he says, we want you to hold these until our debt is repaid to you. Um, and you know, if our debt is not repaid to you in two years, then these things will belong to you.

And Ray is such a sweet guy. He doesn’t want to take it. He tries to give it back. But white moon says that it’s a matter of pride, that if he gives it back, that that puts them at the status of beggars and that’s shameful for them. So Ray keeps it and says that he’ll guard it with his life. 

Todd: And, you know, even before this, you know, there’s this nice moment where Ray and Martha are talking about the town and how the town used to be so alive and how it’s just sort of dead now.

Whereas Martha’s like 

Craig: Ray, it’s been four days since you’ve had a cash paying customer. It’s been four weeks since anyone has given you any money on a credit account. If you keep supporting these people, we won’t have anything to leave to the grand jury. Except good intentions. 

Todd: And he’s just cheerful.

Like, you know, I want to help this town, you know, the store put our kids through school, you know, it gave us savings. It gave us a home. And I want to give back to this community that, that now is struggling. And, and I, I felt like, you know, like that’s such a relatable. Right. I mean, even today, you know, we have the same, the same sense that maybe in some ways, things aren’t the way they used to be.

And, and you’re always looking back on sort of the glory days. And sometimes we look back on it with resentment, but this guy looks back on it with a hope that there’s going to be more in the future. And so Martha, in a very gentle way is sort of telling rate, you know, don’t be such a soccer, you got to kind of put your foot down at some point.

And it’s right after this conversation that he comes in and changes her mind. She said, wow, Ben white moon. You know, I was just telling Ray that he’s too kind and too generous, but you and your people have shown me that actually, you know, you have a lot of integrity and you’ve sort of proven me wrong.

And so that’s a nice little turn in the story, you know, it just makes you love these people 

Craig: very right. It is nice almost to the point of being saccharin, but especially George Kennedy, I think just plays this. Kind older gentlemen, so well that you kind of forgive the almost saccharin nature of it and just think, wow, you know, this is really sweet.

These are, these are good kind, decent people been the native American man also seems kind and honorable and he wants to do the right thing. And it just seems like up to this point, everybody wants to do the right thing and do right by one another. Um, and it’s just, it’s really nice, which sets it up nice then for the very swift change in tone.

Um, because as soon as, as soon as Ben leaves, um, the older couple goes back into their store 

Todd: and it’s night, all of a sudden, 

Craig: right. It is night. All of a sudden. And there are three thugs in there. One of them being Sam white moon, who has bins, nephew. Uh, so also a native American man not played by a native American actor that would probably be different today.

Uh, played by a Caucasian actor. You know, uh, I don’t know if they darkened his skin to, he’s got this long black hair, presumably a wig and they’re robbing the store. And all of a sudden, like you said, it is night all of a sudden, and it does just take this dark tone. And one of the things, you know, having seen this movie since I was a kid and having seen it so many times, I’ve never, and this happens a lot when we prepare for a show, you know, I sit down to watch these movies and I’m watching very closely and I’m trying to watch with a critical eye.

And so I notice things that I hadn’t noticed before. And one of the things that I noticed this time around that I really, really appreciated is that the cinematography is such that. Each shot looks like a cell from a comic book. Like it’s, it’s framed like a comic book, sell the lighting. Very dramatic. It is.

And it looks like an illustration. Like you, it looks like a comic book come to life. And just the composition, the composition of the scenes where you’ll see, um, You know, a person when we first see Sam white moon, he, he is in the center of the frame he’s lit kind of, so that shadow falls over the top of his face.

And it’s just him right there in the center. Then there’s another shot later on where I think all, if not most, if not, all of the characters are in frame and one is very near the camera and one is, you know, a few feet back and then you’ve got other characters back in the back, you know, kind of out of focus.

It looks like an illustration. And I was just really impressed with that attention to detail because these are supposed to be based on comics. They’re not really, I mean, these are original stories, um, but, uh, it looks really cool and they’re there to Rob the store and they’re just awful, like, you know, just terrible.

I mean, uh, Sam. Is just cruel, just nasty and cruel. The other two are kind of buffoons, you know, just your typical thugs. Um, Sam is just a jerk and they’re robbing the store and Sam is admiring his looks in, uh, there’s a photo booth and he goes in and he’s like talking about how good looking he is. And he’s going to be a movie star.

And with hair like this, he’ll be getting, you know, roles and women. And that’s his big dream. And to be fair, he is a very attractive man. He too, I didn’t write down his name, but he too went on to play very attractive. Many things it’s more. 

Todd: Oh, my colony. Yeah. I was surprised to find out that he wasn’t native American.

I always just, as a kid, always assumed he was. So he, he, he passes well in the movie, like you said, I feel like there’s some makeup work going on there, but, uh, yeah, if you go to his IMDV profile, right. I mean, it’s, McCally, he’s clearly Irish somewhere. 

Craig: Right? Well, and he has striking blue eyes, which I think is atypical for native Americans, but that’s true.

That’s true. So, and, and they’re just awful, like they’re there, they’re destroying the store unnecessary. I mean, they’re stealing, but they’re also just destroying the store unnecessarily. Um, you can tell that Ray is trying to hide this satchel that, uh, he’s just been given. They hand over what little money they have.

Um, but then Sam demands the jewels. Um, and, and Ray’s trying to talk them out of it. He’s like Sam, these aren’t even mine. They belong to your people. You’re, you’re stealing from your own people, but Sam doesn’t care and he’s holding his shotgun. Um, at Martha’s side, threatening her, trying to get ready to hand over the Juul.

And then he shoots her, I think, accident. I don’t think that he meant to shoot her in this moment. I think that his finger just slipped on the trigger and she is shot through the side and you see blood coming out from under her dress and she falls over. And then I guess maybe it’s a point of no return.

He just lifts up his rifle and shoots Ray too. And they go outside and he shoots up the store and he shoots the chief wooden head, the statue and they leave. And as soon as they leave, you see the statue come to life. Now the statute. There are some great behind the scenes clips, uh, whatever you call them 

Todd: on.

I think it was probably on, uh, on the DVD 

Craig: or the DVD release. Right. And they detail, you know, all of the effects here and, and they did, they had a prop, they had a statue prop, but then they also had a guy in a suit. And, and the way that they made the suit is, is really interesting. And, and the guy in the suit was a.

And so this is a guy that studied movement, uh, and his movement is great. I mean, he moves like a statue, his movements kind of limited. It’s, it’s very intentional, but he comes to life and you know that, uh, I mean, you know where it’s going and that’s exactly where it goes. And it actually happens very quickly.

It does. The three guys decide that they’re going to split up just in, for long enough to go home and pack up their stuff before they get back together and head out to LA that’s their plan. But chief wouldn’t head has other plans.

Todd: It’s interesting because, uh, I always imagined in the watching of this as a kid, that I was seeing some kind of shoddy special effects work when I saw their moments that are close up on the statue where the statue has some slight movement. I thought as a kid, oh God, the guy acting like the statute in stand still enough.

Or they lingered a little too long on that shot and let some movements slip through. But actually they have a separate actual statue. Yeah. For this. It’s what he’s painting up in the beginning. It clearly have it, they have it. So it was an actual choice for early on to project. The statue moves, it can move and it, and it might Ben white moon when he comes in to the store, kind of looks up at the chief and you can kind of see a little slight movement.

And he kind of does a double take when these kids exit, uh, you can see it slightly frown a little bit like its eyebrows come down. And, uh, of course, as soon as they’re gone in the car, The music starts and the statue comes to life, basically in this very slow thing. As they’re leaving, Sam takes a shot with his shotgun at the statue and kind of misses and knocks over a can of that war, paint that red war.

And as soon as they speed away, uh, the statue slowly kind of lifts its foot. It moves its arm. It sets down its hatchet puts its fingers in that paint and puts its own war paint on and then looks up to the sky, opens its eyes and its mouth, and just lets out a yell. It’s just other worldly yell at it. It looks super scary.

And then like you said, yeah, each one of them go back to their. And, uh, fatso is in his trailer and he’s watching a TV show, the Cisco kid. And so that’s playing in the background. He sits down to watch that and he gets an arrow through his head and through his chest. A couple of times, the rich boy, which is what Sam calls him is trying to sneak out of his, uh, his parents’ place, I guess, where he lives.

And as he goes into the garage, he sees that his car has been smashed up and that’s the car there they’re going to get away in. And, uh, this is all done in shadow. I love that. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s done silhouette. You see the silhouette of the. Indian statue and it raises attach it and the catch it comes down and the, you see blood spray on the wall.

I had forgotten all these little details and I really liked them. I slept there so 

Todd: charming. It’s charming, you know, it’s got some variety. And like you said, you know, comic books that the good ones, you know, try to find these different ways of presenting things, right. And, and very dramatic angles and dramatic capture as much as you can, a one frame.

And that very effectively does that. Right. Then we’re back outside. And as the garage door lowers on the scene, we see that the chief is already outside because we see another shadow of him on the garage door as it comes down and then he walks away. It’s it’s so cool. Right. And it also gets. The cheesiness, maybe if you show too much of this statue walking around, it has the potential to look cheesy.

And so these first two kills, they do a pretty good job of kind of holding back the statue a little bit. Yeah. We don’t even see them with the arrows. Right. And then we just see his shadow with this one. Uh, but then when Sam comes home and he’s staring at himself in the mirror, he’s talking about how he’s going to go to Hollywood and his hair is going to save him, blah, blah, blah.

He hears a noise. He gets ready to go. And chief wouldn’t head breaks in the front door. And Sam has got his gun and he backs into a bathroom like an idiot. And, uh, you think the chief is going to come bursting through the door, but he surprises him by coming through the wall of the bathroom. And then it’s this great overhead shot where you see Sam get pulled through this hole in the wall, and then the camera, you know, through the wall and into the other room still overhead.

And you see the chief holding him by the hair. He raises his hatchet and comes down and you’d just know what’s going down right 

Craig: then. Yeah. Wakes up in the morning. Um, he seems like, it seems like something kind of startles him awake. And when he wakes up, he finds his people’s sad. In his bed with him. So he races over to the store where the statue has returned and is exactly where it’s supposed to be.

But now it is holding Sam’s scalp with his long beautiful hair. And, and then, uh, looks at the statue and says, may your spirit rest, uh, and again, the statute kind of moves a little bit and he kind of does a double take and, 

Todd: and tie tails it out of there. Right. I don’t know if this is actually true. Maybe thinking a little bit too much it reading a little bit too much into this, but the way he says, may your spirit finally be at peace old chief?

It makes. I just had a glimmer of a thought, like, do you think that that statue was given to them for protection? 

Craig: I don’t know. I don’t know. I’ll have any idea, but, uh, you know, I, again, the, the, the next segment is the one that I was most excited about, but I had forgotten how charming this one was and watching that feature at about the special effects.

I mean, everybody who worked on the special effects, there were bumps in the road, uh, especially on some of the other segments, but they were just so pleased with the way that this one turned out and they should be, oh yeah, I love practical effects. And all of the effects in this movie are practical. And if it were made today, Especially on a modest budget, it would all be digital and it would just not have the charm that this has, it just looks great.

Todd: Well, this was like Greg first rodeo. He and a buddy of his were kind of pulled into this. And a lot of ways we’re making things up as they went along and trying to figure out these special effects when one of the previous special effects guys wasn’t even delivering. And so, you know, they sort of quickly through the production, got elevated to being in charge of and supervising, uh, and actually making these things happen, especially in the rap scene.

And I mean, Greg Nicotero went on from here to do effects for so many films and probably most recently, and most famously the walking dead, all of that is from his shop. And so it really was, as you said earlier, a launching pad for a number of people’s careers, not the least of which special effects and therefore it’s kind of hard to believe that some of these.

You know, we’re cutting their teeth on this because it is still so good. And it really has, 

Craig: it was also just really cool to see that many of the same people were responsible for the effects on so many movies at this time. Like, um, I’m pretty sure that, uh, nicotine Pharaoh went directly from working on evil dead to, uh, like th like they weren’t even finished and he left to come work on this.

He had also worked on day of the dead with Tom Savini. You know, there was this handful of guys, and I say guys, because they were, they were men, this handful of men who were responsible for so many of the effects for movies that we love and. Uh, it’s just, it’s, it’s cool to get to see some of that behind the scenes stuff.

And it is, I encourage you to watch, you know, look for those things on YouTube. If you are interested, if you’re a fan of this movie, um, because it’s really neat to see the process. And it’s really neat to see the actors, you know, kind of in their makeup, but out of character and, um, see how these things were put together.

It’s, it’s very interesting. Um, we go back to the animated wraparound and all we really see in this one is that Billy receives a package in those old comics, and it wasn’t just the horror comics, but in those old comics, Back there would be all these ads that you could like, you know, send in, you know, this little clip from the magazine with a check and they would send you, it was, you know, it was cheap gag gift type stuff.

But, um, I never did. I never, I always wanted to 

Todd: Johnson Smith company and the back of those magazines and boys life, especially at boys life magazine, cause I was a boy scout and Johnson Smith ads were my favorite part of the boys life magazine was just to flip to the back and imagine what could I order?

Like it would just be all kinds of things like snapping gum and exp exploding cigarettes. And like that I did order a few times, you know, it’d be like 89 cents and pick three and then $3 for shipping and you’d get something back in the mail. And those were, those were fun times and they did, they sold stuff like Venus fly traps and.

That sounded really exotic and exciting. See monkeys. See you monkeys. 

Craig: I remember that. That’s funny. Yeah. And so, so Billy gets this package and he says that it’s a Venus fly trap bulb, and he’s all excited about it. It’s, it’s cute. And then the creep introduces the next tail, which is the raft and this one for whatever reason, just always stuck with me.

And, and I think it’s because I really like the water. I’ve always been a water person. Um, and so I don’t know, just this one spooks me out because, um, this was a, a very familiar setting to me. And this one is based on an existing Stephen King story. I think it was in . Skeleton crew. I think, I think so too.

And I have read it and the adaptation is very faithful. It’s a great story to these four young people, college kids, Deek, uh, Laverne. Randy and Rachel, um, and they’re kind of paired up in that way. Deacon Laverne seem like they’re kind of a couple and Randy and Rachel kind of seemed like they’re kind of a couple and it’s fall, but they’re headed to a lake 20 minutes from their campus for one last swim before winter.

They know of this lake where there’s a, they call it a raft. Um, it’s really like a small floating dock in the middle of a lake and they’re going to go out there and they know that nobody else is going to be out there because there are only summer homes out there and it’s past September. So before it gets too cold, it’s already cold before it gets too cold.

They’re going to go out for one last. They get their Deek jumps, re you know, strips down to his underwear Speedo or whatever he’s wearing and jumps right in. And, and, uh, Randy follows him and the girls are a little reluctant at first, but they go, and as they’re swimming out to this raft, Randy notices a bird like struggling on the surface, and then it kind of scream squawks and goes under.

So he’s kind of keeping his eye out over there. He notices that there’s like this big black, they refer to it as an oil slick, which it kind of looks like it also just kind of looks like a big hefty bag. 

Todd: It really does floating, floating on the water, 

Craig: but it, it seems to be approaching. And so he swims to the dock really fast and he’s screaming for the girls to hurry.

And Laverne really only just makes it, I mean, the, whatever this thing is, Inches from her when they pull her up on it. Randy is freaked out from the beginning and says 

Todd: I was going after the girls. 

Craig: Oh, come on, punch her. You said you sobered up, man. It looked like it was going after the girls. No one knows we’re here at all.

It’s such a throwaway line, but I love it. Like that’s so scary. You find yourself in peril and you just realize offhandedly. Nobody knows we’re here. Like yeah, if we’re in trouble. No one’s coming to help. 

Todd: And you know, it neatly works out like this is of course before the age of cell phones. And I said, this movie is, is not, uh, dated.

And it still isn’t because if you’re going to go swimming, yeah. You would leave your cell phones at the car probably, or on the beach, you wouldn’t be swimming. So it still works. That’s you’re still, still, we’re still just as isolated. Great. 

Craig: And I like this story because it’s such a simple concept. And I also like that nothing has ever really explained, like they don’t know what this thing is and we don’t either.

Randy’s kind of freaked out about it, but nobody else is particularly concerned and you know, they’re smoking joints or whatever. And Rachel reaches down and is kind of just kind of running her fingers over the surface of the water over the top of this thing. And it shoots up like this black goo shoots up and grabs her arm and pulls her in.

And pulls her under and then she comes back up and she’s completely covered in this slime. Um, and you can tell that it’s eating away at her skin and she’s saying it hurts. It hurts, but there’s nothing they can do. And it just pulls her under and she’s gone. And that’s just, it again, you can watch stuff about the special effects here.

They use like the super slime type stuff, and, you know, they had a technical name for it, but it’s this really viscous, sticky stuff that apparently is a nightmare to get off. Like they said, you almost have to use bleach to, to scrub it off. Cause once it’s stuck to you, it’s just so adhesive. You just can’t get it off.

And, um, the, the, the girl who, uh, you know, gets eaten in a very gruesome fashion, it looks great. She kind of looks like the girl on the evil, dead poster reaching up for help, except she’s covered in this goo. That was actually a. Person. And, uh, I guess it was just a nightmare for her not to mention that they really did film this in the fall.

Now they were in Arizona, but apparently it was rainy season and the rain delayed the production and the temperatures were low, particularly the temperatures of the water, the guy who played Randy apparently almost died of hypothermia. 

Todd: The crew kept wanting to push them to go. And the director was finally like, you know, I actually think we need to get them to a hospital or else.

We might not be able to get him to finish everything else. And it turned out to be a really good idea. So. Right. They had a lot of problems, I guess, with, um, you know, this is sort of where nicotine Pharaoh and his, uh, guys had to step in because of 

Craig: the, yeah. Things kind of fell apart. The original, special effects guy walked, I think at this point, 

Todd: right?

Because the director didn’t want to hear from him anymore. He pointed, he looked at the others and said, you guys tell me what we need to do. I don’t want to hear from you 

Craig: anymore. You know, it’s funny to hear nicotine Pharaoh and his partner talk about this because they’re very understanding, you know, they say if we were in his position and somebody else came and you know, was overseeing us and overruling us, we probably would have done the same thing.

Um, we probably would have left too, so they don’t have any hard feelings, but, and so now they don’t know what to do. Deek, uh, keeps talking about, you know, maybe we should try to. Swim for it. Maybe we can out swim it. And they’re kind of still debating that when the blob works its way under the raft, and Dick says, he’s gonna do it.

He’s gonna, he’s gonna swim for it. And he starts to go, but then he starts screaming and the camera, you know, cuts to his feet and the blob is coming up through the planks of the dock and it’s got his leg and it continues to kind of work its way up his leg. And it pulls him down through the boards, as it pulls him down, it folds one of his legs up.

Onto his torso and just completely pulls them in. And the others, you know, have to keep their feet on the boards away from the cracks between them. So it can’t get them. And it was really cool to hear how they did this too. They lifted up the raft and they put these like gutters underneath it and filled the gutters with that black gooey stuff.

And then they could like push on the gutters in different places to make this stuff ooze up. It looks fantastic. It looks really good. It looks organic and it really looks like the thing is moving, but it gets him. And so the other two are stuck there and they keep watch. The thing goes out from under the raft.

They keep watching it’s nighttime and it goes all through the night and they’re super cold. And eventually they end up sitting down together and holding each other and uh, eventually they fall asleep. Both of them. Well, that’s right. Randy wakes up and he’s holding her and he lays her down. On the dock and proceeds to molest her.

So I, I had forgotten, or maybe I just didn’t know when I was a kid. Like, I remember it, like, I thought they like started making out, but no, he just assaults 

Todd: her in her sleep. That’s an odd thing. Like Randy lives up to his name. Right. And I think that when I watched this as a teenager, I won’t say I understood it more, but I think I was more in the mind of a teenager at that point, I thought it was horrifying, but I’m like, oh yeah, he sees an opportunity to take advantage of this girl.

He just wants to see her boobs. It’s just so odd. It’s very Stephen King though. He likes to do this kind of thing. I feel like, but yeah, I don’t know how I feel about this bit. It just, what I think the reason for it is and what he basically does is he, he lays her down on the raft while she’s asleep. And while she’s laying down in the raft, he likes slowly lifts her shirt up, exposes her breasts kind of runs his face, close to her body up there.

And it looks like he wants to like, you know, take a lick or a bite or something here. And I don’t know what his end game is because you get startled before he finishes and he pulls it down. But my thought for why this was included. In these stories, usually people get what’s coming to them. People get what they deserve, you know, sort of following the horror movie tropes.

None of these kids really got what they deserved, to be honest, but at least right, for this kid to die, you kind of had to lose a little bit of sympathy for him. And maybe that was the prejudice, you know, was to lose 

Craig: some sympathy for up until now. He really kind of seemed like the hero role. And, uh, you know, again, as a kid, I don’t know if I was desensitized by horror movies or, or what, but like I never gave it even a.

I thought, like, I thought she might wake up and they’d make out, but watching it this time, it was a little uncomfortable because she even seems to kind of be protesting even in her sleep. I think that’s why he pulls her shirt back down is because I think she’s moaning. Like, no. And there’s that like 

Todd: sort of sweet, romantic music playing behind it.

It’s all like a little cringy. I bang purposefully. So maybe 

Craig: right. Well, anyway, so she’s kind of protesting and, and moaning, but then her eyes open and she realizes, and we soon realized that the reason that she’s moaning is because she’s in pain because the blob has snuck back under and has come up and has gotten, is attached to her face.

Um, and then it gets all over her face and starts pulling her into. You know, reaching out to Randy for help. And, um, he’s just standing there and whore. And eventually, while the blob is occupied, he dives into the water and start swimming for sure. And it starts swimming after him. And there’s a great aerial shot where you see him swim through the frame, and then you see the blob coming behind you.

And he gets to shore and he crawls out on the shore about an inch away from the water and turns around and starts taunting. The thing is like a high beat. You, I don’t know what you are, but I beat you. And then the blob jumps out of the water and then Gulf SIM, it’s crazy. And I love it because it’s unexpected.

We think he’s made it. He thinks he’s made it. And then, you know, can, we don’t know what this thing is to say it can’t come out on land and it just jumps out and grabs him and drags him back in. And the camera cuts back to a wider shot with the car in the frame. And it pans away from the car to these weeds.

Uh, and you see a sign that says no swimming. Hilarious. I love that sentiment. I think it’s so good. 

Todd: It’s a wonderful segment. I think it’s the best segment of all three. It’s certainly the one that stuck with me the most as a kid, because it just horrified me a. The idea that you can be out there stranded and really pretty helpless when this unknown thing is coming at you as one thing, but B the fact that it’s systematically picks them off despite their best intentions, see that this guy is responsible for getting the girl he supposed to be protecting.

Killed by an act of pure selfishness was horrifying to me. And then of course, you know, he thinks he’s a, he he’s, he’s one and you kind of want him to win. Right. But then that thing swoops over and get some, and I was impressed with that special effect too. I was waiting, you know, To it. Now that we’re watching these with a critical eye leading up to it, I was so excited to see that shot.

Cause I remember that shot, but I don’t remember it well enough. I just know this was the age before computer effects. So I was really curious to see how they did it and it’s impossible to see how they did it. It’s just looks like a wave of this thing flopping over him. It’s really, really good. And uh, then in watching that feature at, they decide that, well, what they basically did was they just made this big folding frame that they attached to a big piece of this monster too.

And they, you know, pulled it back and had it on a tripwire. So it would spring forward kind of like a, um, a convertible car top comes forward. And I said, oh, that is so clever. And it works so well. 

Craig: And it’s shot really. Because it’s a split second. I mean, you know, it, it jumps out and you see him kind of try to get up to escape it and then it just kind of envelops him, but it happens so quickly.

Uh, it looks great, 

Todd: sort of perfect ending to, you know, it’s ending with a zinger. Like there’s the one bit of the ending, which is so. Cool and frustrating. It’s sorta like, um, the ruins, you know, where it’s like, this thing has been there for who knows how long. Right. And it will clearly continue to be there for who knows how long, you know, but it also seems like somebody knows about it because there’s a sign, but nature has overtaken that sign almost like it’s, it’s keeping that going.

You know, like it’s its own protection. It just raises so many questions that, like you said, it’s just so great that they don’t ever try to explain it. Right, 

Craig: right. Love it. Cut back to the wraparound. Um, Billy gets chased on his bike by some bullies and I love the animated parts. they remind me, they remind me of cartoons from when I was a kid.

And these bullies, you know, are, are so OneNote, but they’re just gleefully mean and wicked. This big fat, tough bully steals Billy’s package and throws it on the ground and stomps on it. And then he even pulls out the bulb, the Venus fly trap bald, and he’s like, we did the planning in Cromer panties, like, and I’m immediately thrown back into the eighties,

Todd: maybe a little too. Well, huh.

You know, for me, what, as a kid watching this too, again, a sign of the times, this was probably the first time I’d ever seen. This kind of story in cartoon form when we were kids, cartoons were pretty tame. Yeah. Never violent. And so to see these kids bullying this kid and being mean, and sort of the violence that ends up happening in this cartoon was novel for me at the time.

And I found the cartoon section almost as scandalous in the fact that it was a scary cartoon, you 

Craig: know, I loved it. And then we get the last story, um, which is the hitchhiker. And this is a story. Of a woman named Annie, um, a rich lady. She wakes up in bed with a man who is quickly established as not her husband.

In fact, he’s a gigolo that she’s paying. She woke up late and she needs to get home before her husband. Um, and it’s 20 miles away and she only has seven minutes to get there. So she’s racing and she’s talking to herself in the car trying to come up with some excuse, went to see a movie.

I went to get led George there’s this wonderful guy. He charges $150, but that’s for six count of six orgasms,

$25. And she ends up hitting and presumably killing. Uh, hitchhiker and she stops and she’s thrown, but when she sees the headlights of another car approaching, she turns off her lights and takes off. Now, I remember when I was a kid that this was my least favorite one, watching it again. I had more appreciation for it and I’m not really sure why.

Um, but I, I did think ultimately that this one is actually really scary. And this one is probably most like a tales from the crypt episode. Um, in that you’ve got somebody who has done something bad, who then is punished 

Todd: more so than the raft. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

Craig: The, uh, the thing that, um, I was most interested in finding out about this one was that this woman who’s, you know, your typical, rich 80.

Bitch for lack of a better word. She was originally supposed to be played by Barbara Eden and I, and Barbara Eden only ended up dropping out because her mother passed away. And so she couldn’t film it. Um, but I can’t. Can you imagine Jeannie in this 

Todd: grave I would have been great. I 

Craig: know I would be really cute.

But anyway, the woman who ends up playing it as low as child who was Holly Goodhead in Moonraker. Um, so again, another, you know, well-established actress, 

Todd: uh, and, and I’ll, I’ll say too, like as a kid, this seemed very adult to me. Like I had to have, my dad explained to me the whole thing about the gigolo.

And, and, and in that case, it is very much like a tales from the crypt episode from HBO, because they always seem to insert some of it, like some nudity, some adult like heavy adult themes into these otherwise, you know, more traditionally kid fair, kind of, kind of anthology comic stuff. But for me, this one has more humor in it.

It’s a. Tone in a way, because, uh, while she’s talking to herself, as she’s going down the road and the whole concept of what’s going on as, as we’ll explain, as, as it continues is, is humorous. It’s funny. And I think that’s really what sets it apart from the previous two ones, which I sort of feel are pretty dead serious.

Chief wooden head is just depressing and the raft is pretty much to, you know, whereas this one, you’re almost laughing by the end of it. And, and that’s part of what hooks you in as like, how far is this going to go? You know? Cause it’s, it’s like an ongoing gag, basically 

Craig: it, and I would agree with you except for the effects in this one are so good.

That late. So basically what happens is she’s, she’s feeling guilty or she’s trying to decide whether or not she’s going to feel guilty. Like she keeps asking herself, can I live with this? Um, and she says, well, you know, I’ll just, I’ll go home. I’ll try to go on with my life. And if I can’t live with it, I’ll turn myself in later.

Um, but what ends up happening is she ends up passing the hitchhiker on the highway again, and she stops the car to make sure that she saw. Thinks that she saw and she did. And it’s the hitchhiker mangled from being hit. And he knocks on her, went like, you know, jump pops up at her window and says, thanks for the ride lady.

She, uh, takes off, but he’s like holding onto this side of the car and he gets up on top and he’s trying to get in the sunroof. And he just keeps saying it tags for their ride lady. 

Todd: That’s hilarious. I mean, 

Craig: but, but what kills me about it is that she keeps like, she drives into the forest to try to knock them off.

And she does, and she keeps like hitting him and running him over. And every time he just gets more and more gross, like. And by the end, he’s unrecognizable. I mean, he’s just a bloody blob, right. But he just keeps

even this guy. I, you showed me a clip where this guy was on like a reunion. Panel Tom, right? Yeah. And I recognized him and I’m like, why do I recognize him? Well, he’s been in a bazillion thing, but I, I recognized him from troop Beverly Hills. He was, he was the one black girls, dad and troop, Beverly Hills, me, he’s been in a bazillion things, TV 

Todd: and movies all over the place, 

Craig: again, still working.

And, um, she finally, after going through like two forests, you know, and she, at one point she smashes this, he’s sitting up against a tree and she smashes into him like two or three times. Like he’s just a bloody pulp. And she is, she finally gets home. She pulls into her garage. She’s. Like hysterically laughing, crying about all the damage to her car and how she’s got a concussion and how much money all of this is going to cut her.

Todd: Husband’s not even home 

Craig: yet. And her, yeah, her husband’s not home. He’s late for the only time ever. And she goes to get out of the car. She opens the door and the corpse thing slides out from underneath. Like he’s a mechanic and, and looks up at her extra, their ride lady. And he like gets up in the car and he’s like, you’ve got his face pressed up against hers.

And he doesn’t even have like a face. It’s just like a tongue, like rubbing up against her face. And they X for their ride 

Todd: lady. Those guys called that they’re Admiral Ackbar, Virgin of him. Because this bias or just bugging out and going different directions and the tongues just hanging in the face is just totally splayed open.

And it’s all a puppet and he’s just rubbing against her for like 15 seconds.

The special effects are as they’re just enjoying, torturing the actor. 

Craig: Oh yeah, it’s great. I really liked it. I, I can see how you like it is a running gag and I can see how it’s funny, but the effect is so gross. Like I still thought it was scary. So her husband comes home and opens the garage door and it’s filled with exhaust fumes and he opens the car door and she’s sitting in there dead and she’s holding the Hitchhiker’s sign.

And that’s, that’s the end of that one. And then we get the end of the wraparound, which is very satisfying. We cut right back to where we left off, where the bullies are chasing Billy. And he leads them onto this private property that says, you know, no trespassing or whatever. And he leads them into this big clearing and it looks like, you know, they surround him and they’re going to beat him up, but he’s got this sly smile on his face.

I really liked that too. Like, he’s supposed to be like this innocent kid. He’s this little blonde kid, but he’s got this really wicked. To then these giant Venus fly traps, pop out and eat all of the bullies and they get the great big one last and the great big one, like the thing gets it in his mouth and he kind of stands up, you know, like, I don’t know, Hercules or something and is like holding the jaws open, but then they snapped out swallows and Billy’s just standing there smiling slyly with his, you know, Fly traps are all around him.

They eat 

Todd: meat. He 

Craig: need, uh, uh, animated camera pans to the creep who is watching and laughing. And he climbs back into the back of his truck. It goes back to, uh, Live action. Again, Tom Savini and this, you know, these prosthetics and he just laughs and the truck starts driving away with him hanging out the back and he scatters copies of creeps show out the back as he’s driving away.

And then, okay. So there was a knock at my door, right at the very end when the credit started. So I got up and I, I got the door and everything and I, I came back and I clicked the credits back on and thought, you know, I’ve, I don’t, I don’t think I’ve ever watched the credits before. Maybe there’s something at the end or something, and there’s not, there’s not a credit scene or anything, but I was glad I watched it because at the very end of the credits, there’s a note.

The very last thing you see is this quote from Colliers magazine from 1949. 

Todd: Did the comic scare? 

Craig: Yeah, it says juvenile delinquency is the product of pent up frustrations, stored up resentments and bottled up fears. It is not the product of cartoons and captions, but the comics are a handy, obvious, uncomplicated scapegoat.

If the adults who crusade against them would only get as steamed up over such basic causes of delinquency is parental ignorance, indifference and cruelty. They might discover that comic books are no more a menace than treasure island or Jack the giant killer. Um, and I just, I’d never seen that on here before, and I love it.

And I especially love that it’s a quote from 1949 because this debate, this debate was still going on in the eighties. And to some extent it’s still going on now. Like people are so desperate to find a root cause for the bad behavior of young people and things like comics or horror movies or rock and roll music or whatever are easy scapegoats and artist.

I’ve had to fight this battle for decades and it’s stupid. And, and, and now, you know, it’s, it’s video games, you know, it’s violent video games that inspire all of these terrible things. And it’s not like, I think that time has pretty clearly shown that it’s not, uh, any one particular thing. At least not the things that are most commonly blamed.

I just thought that was really. Really interesting. 

Todd: Yeah, it was cool. And it ties in, well, obviously with the theme of creep show, cause it’s based on those comics. And we talked about this a little bit last week when we talked about tales from the crypt, the whole comics code, you know, situation, just part of the never ending cycle.

You just keep revisiting the same argument over and over and over again. I just love, I love this movie. I really do. I loved it just as much this time around as I always did. Like I said, I really liked the first one better. Cause there’s a couple more stories. It has some bigger stars and I feel like the stories are tighter and they pack some punch.

Um, these stories pack punch and they, they do go by really quickly. I do feel like the last one was stretched out a little bit. I understand they were going for particular pacing and you know, I did feel like as tight as the other ones were, you know, the last one became such a running gag that it’s like, I get the gag, I get the gag.

Let’s get to the end. Let’s see eventually, you know how this is going to work out because we’ve figured out this guy isn’t going to die. He’s just going to get messy and more. You know, so, uh, that was my only that’s. That’s probably why I think the third one is the weakest, even though it’s a good one compared to the other two, but I can see kind of why they ordered things in the way that they did.

So it, it, it’s a shame that the other tube that, that they had planned for one reason or another, I think one was the budgetary reasons, or maybe both were budgetary reasons or they didn’t make it into the movie. One of those ended up in another movie. I believe in cats. I 

Craig: know it was, um, uh, tales from the dark side, tailspin dark 

Todd: side.

Or just an episode. Okay. 

Craig: The, the movie, the cat from hell and the other 

Todd: one. Um, apparently not too long ago, somebody had a Kickstarter going to try to actually film it. And I don’t know if that ever, and it was something about pinball, pinball, 

Craig: something or other? No, it’s a, it was it’s about, uh, ghostly rival bowling teams.

Oh 

Todd: yeah. Not pinballs something. That sounded weird. I read a little bit like what I want to change the tone of this movie quite a bit. Yeah. 

Craig: I think that technically there is a Creepshow 3 and maybe even a Creepshow 4, but King and Romero, I don’t think had anything to do with them. And by all accounts they’re really bad.

I don’t think I’ve seen them. I think they’re pretty obscure. Um, but Shudder right now is running a Creepshow streaming series. Have you seen it? I’ve watched a few of them. I haven’t watched many of them there. There’s been a couple of seasons and a couple of holiday specials. And the ones that I’ve watched, uh, are creative.

One of the ones that I watched was based on a Stephen King story about this kid who has to get his. He has to go buy his dad beer every day. And it turns out that his dad is turning into like this monster that ends up kind of taking over the world. I remember reading that story, the Stephen King story, and then, so I was pleased to see it when I watched that episode.

It’s pretty good. And I think that, uh, it’s been pretty well received critically, and it seems like it’s keeping going and not slowing down. And, and that’s great because I really do love anthology, horror. I love these short little. One-off stories for somebody like me with a short attention span. They’re perfect.

You know, it’s, you can sit down and get a whole story in like half an hour. That’s why I like reading short stories too. I’m a big fan of short story anthologies, just to be able to sit down and get a whole story in a short amount of time. Um, I really like it, so I hope that people keep making them and I think they will.

In fact, we see more and more anthologies, especially around the holidays every year. Um, and we’ve, and we’ve done several Halloween and Christmas anthologies, and we’ve done other anthologies too. And we’re still going to be back doing a couple more this month. It’s funny. We’ve kind of got planned. Kind of nebulously, we have planned what we’re going to do, but just, you know, in thinking about it over the last couple of weeks and thinking about it yesterday, there are so many, you know, and, and so many good ones and so many bad ones, but we could probably do.

Six months of anthology films, if we wanted to, because there are so many, um, but I really liked them and I hope that we continue to see them. Yeah, me too. Me too. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of two guys in a chainsaw. Of course. Uh, if you enjoy this episode, let us know if you have any insight into this movie that we missed.

We’d love to hear it. If you want to hear our other stuff, all you need to do is Google Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast, and you’ll find us all over the place anywhere where you can find streaming podcasts. You’ll find us there. We’ll be back. Like I said, for the next couple of weeks with a couple more horror anthologies for you.

But until that time, I’m Craig and I’m Todd with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We kick off a month of horror anthology films with what is arguably the granddaddy of them all, Tales From The Crypt. This Amicus production was the first to use the EC Comics license, which kicked off a property that is still popular today in one form or another.

With five twisty tales and a wraparound story featuring a more subdued Cryptkeeper than we’re used to, its success spawned a sequel and inspired the Stephen King/George Romero projects, Creepshow and Creepshow 2.

Tales From The Crypt (1972)

Episode 284, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Happy new year, Craig! happy new year. Well. Our second episode into the new year. We did our jaws episode last week, which was a request. And, uh, we decided that no, to shake things up a little bit, we would do a month of anthologies since we haven’t done a theme month in a while.

Our typical Christmas theme month. Uh, and actually this concept has been suggested by a couple of our listeners and some of our listeners have suggested some anthology films, which are on our list and we’ll probably get to, but this one, as far as I’m concerned, and I might be the most of the two of us, who’s enthusiastic about doing anthology movies.

I don’t know. 

Craig: I love the anthology movies, but you’ve been wanting to do this forever. So I’m glad that we’re finally getting around. 

Todd: Me too. And without a doubt, the very first one on my list that we just absolutely have to do is Tales from the Crypt from 1972. Uh, I mean, I think I’ve talked about my love affair with the tales from the crypt comics on one or two of our other episodes.

Um, for those of our listeners who don’t know her, who haven’t heard those episodes, this movie is directly licensed and based on that tales from the crypt property and to make a long story short back in the. Fifties horror comics were a big thing. And there was one company that just sort of seemed to Excel above all the others.

And that was easy comics, entertaining comics. Um, William Gaines was the editor there and writer of a lot of the stuff. And, uh, they took their inspiration from the old radio dramas, especially lights. Where there would be some tail usually with an O Henry type twist ending to it. You know, they’re pretty moral tales.

Really. Usually the bad guy gets what’s coming to them and they had a whole series of these comic books, which were wildly popular, especially with children, as you can imagine. And they were the Tales from the Crypt and the Vault of Horror and The Haunt of Fear. They had similar style stories in their books called Crime SuspenStories and Shock SuspenStories.

They even had one called combat tales, which also went into this realm as well. So, or two fisted tails and combat tails. And, and so they really excelled in this type. Anthology storytelling. Every one of their comic books had like five stories in them and each one of them were hosted by different hosts.

So the vault keeper hosted the vault of horror and the crypt keeper hosted a tales from the crypt and the old, which hosted the haunt of fear. Later on, of course, many of us are probably familiar with the HBO series Tales from the Crypt, which again, drew from the same material. One of the requirements of using their license, William Gaines, the owner of the, of the, of the licenses absolutely insisted that all of the stories in both this movie and there was a sequel to it called The Vault of Horror.

And then of course, even in the newest, uh, HBO app, All had to pull their material from the original stories in the comic book. And of course they modified them a little bit, stretched them out, put some different twists on them, but all of them have roots in this comic book, which, which is really cool. And I used to read these comics.

I’m not old enough to have been around in the fifties, but they reprinted these comics in the early. They were reprints on the shelves. They were really beautiful hardbound copies of original artwork from these that were going up on the shelves. And so I have a huge collection of these at home, which I just love reading through.

And it’s really fun to watch the tales from the crypt episodes and this movie, because I distinctly remember. Almost every single one of the actual stories, reading them for the first time, uh, in the pages of that comic book, which just had great artwork, delicious descriptions. It just, what a wonderful thing, uh, for a kid, which, uh, by the way, was sort of cut short because a lot of parents got worried about these comics and there was a very famous book written called seduction of the innocent in which I’m a child psychologist who wrote it.

Frederick Wortham claimed. Put up an argument anyway, that comic books in general, but particular horror and crime comic books, we’re creating juvenile delinquency, long, old story. Right now it’s supposedly video games, but, but, um, that caused such an uproar. Such alarm that there was actually testimony in front of Congress about it.

Fred award them came in William Gaines, who is the publisher of these comics had to come in and defend them. At the end of the day, the industry decided that instead of waiting for the government to regulate them, they would take a page from the movie industry, which went through a similar thing and regulate themselves.

And so they created the comics code, which had this. It would look right now, very puritanical, but, um, it just a list of things that the comics could and could not do. And couldn’t could not say. And what kind of words could they use and what kind of themes could they have and how far could the artwork go?

And, uh, the superhero comics had passed most of that without any problem, but all of these crime and horror comics just could not stay on the shelves, uh, in their present form. But ISI comics lived on because thankfully in their stable, they also had a little known property called mad magazine. Which turned out to be an ever even bigger hit, as we all know.

So they turned out okay, but these books, oh God, these comics are great. And we’ve got a lot of movies based on the material that we can talk about. And here we are with tales from the crypt 1972, I’ve said too much about it already, but I’m interested in know Craig, if you had seen 

Craig: this before, I hadn’t and I’m kind of surprised, I guess, maybe.

It’s just the fact that it’s older and I typically don’t seek those out, but I still surprised because tales from the crypt on HBO in the nineties was like my favorite show. I absolutely loved it. I thought it was a, just, it had a really weird. Tone to it, but it also had a lot of humor. Now, granted, the humor was dark.

I mean, it was often really dark humor, but it was funny, 

Todd: The Cryptkeeper character, especially right? He adds like levity to the whole thing. 

Craig: Definitely. And, uh, I miss that guy. Me too. He’s, he’s kind of iconic to my adolescents and, you know, the, the television series went on for quite some time. And for whatever reason, it drew huge names.

Uh, you know, big, big stars would appear in these 25. Shorts big directors would come in and direct them and they varied in tone and quality, but overall, uh, I just really, really enjoyed them. I don’t remember when they were on, it was like Friday or Saturday night or something, but I would make up. To see them.

And I had a lot of them on VHS, uh, for 

Todd: a long time, HBO into syndication. So you could actually see this on one or two networks, maybe cable, uh, maybe TBS 

Craig: or something. I don’t remember. But yeah, I actually, I was just, you know, I was looking around at. Tales from the crypt stuff. And you can get the entire series on DVD for like a hundred bucks.

And I was really tempted to click on it, but then I was like, do I even have a DVD player? 

Todd: I have that. I have the whole series on DVD. And I always ask myself that same question. When am I going to be able to actually whip it out and play. But at the time I get back home to my DVD collection. I don’t know if I’ll be able to buy a DVD player anywhere.

Craig: Who knows? I don’t, I don’t think they are, but I didn’t look into it, but maybe someday. And if they already are, I feel remiss for having missed it. Maybe someday there’ll be available. Streaming like on HBO, max or something. But anyway, yeah, so, I mean, that’s my, my major history. So I was familiar with the concept, very familiar with the title and, uh, I was looking forward to seeing it and I wasn’t disappointed.

The only thing that separates this from what I’m accustomed to is, there’s less emphasis on humor here. This is just pretty dark, but it does follow the formula. Like you said, of these morality plays where. The ad people do bad things and end up getting what’s coming to them, which I think is just something that is in our human nature to find satisfying.

We like seeing people get there, come up and say, you don’t know, you don’t always see that in real life, you know? Kind of usually get away with it and real life. So it’s refreshing to see 

Todd: people getting it’s so true. And it’s interesting because even in the tales from the crypt series, not all of them had to do with the supernatural, because again, I was telling you, you know, they had these shocks suspense stories, crime, suspense stories, they would do the same sort of format formula, but it would be a, a jilted lover who murders her husband and then kind of ends up getting it in an ironic way.

Or, you know, there’s a lot of, uh, human drama as well. Dory’s that has nothing to do with ghosts or spirits or zombies or, or the supernatural. And, and so, like you said, it’s, it’s like, uh, we know these sorts of things do happen and we want always sort of see justice serve. So it’s, it’s good to see that happen.

I first saw this movie before I started reading the comics because I saw it in the mid to late eighties. On TV. It was one of those three, you know, Saturday afternoon thriller chillers that came on after the cartoons, which I always waited around for. And oftentimes it would be a hammer production of Dracula or something with Christopher Lee or something like that.

But in this case, this was produced by an Amicus production. And an Amicus was another British studio, kind of had their heyday also in the seventies, uh, when hammer was producing a lot of stuff, whereas hammer did a lot of Gothic, horror, Dracula, Frankenstein, kind of remakes of those and kind of bringing them up into a more modern day, a little more gory, a little more sex and, and some nudity in them.

Amycus seemed to just produce anthology, horror films. And instead of making them Gothic, I don’t think they ever did a single Gothic one. I think there were all more of these modern day, like settings. And I think the reason for that is because they could be done cheaper. You know, you don’t have to dress up a set, you don’t have to have fancy costumes.

You just, all the action happens in somebody’s apartment or down the street or your house. And this movie definitely is, is just like that. Uh, with the exception of the wraparound story, there’s nothing terribly fancy in the setting of, of any of these stories of what’s going on. And I will say the movie.

You’re looking back at it now does in a way feel a little cheap in that way. But as a kid, it made a huge impression on me because the wraparound story, after the credits and spooky music over a graveyard scenes and the right day, you get a tour group going through some catacombs in England somewhere.

And the tour guide says to this group of people, the recordings are dangerous and I missed warn you to stay with. And so this group goes along and the last five people in this group are headed up by, and it’s a long line going through these narrow catacombs are headed up by Joan Collins. It 

Craig: was weird. I knew she was in this, but it took me a second.

Like I had to do a double-take because all my life. And I mean this with every ounce of respect all my life, Joan Collins has been an old woman, yellow, 

Todd: at least middle aged, right? Yeah. Super young. She isn’t this one too. 

Craig: Right? I mean, I guess when I was a kid and she was on whichever one of those shows she was on Dallas or whatever it was.

Yeah. Old, but me being a little kid, she was older, you know? And, um, but here she’s very young and very beautiful. And, and honestly, I don’t really know a whole lot about her career at this time or before. I’m just familiar with the stuff that happened during my lifetime. Um, so it was neat. It was neat to see her kind of in her physical prime, she looks amazing.

Oh yeah. 

Todd: She’s just a beautiful, almost. Kind of like a classic seventies, European beauty, you know, with her hair and her makeup and everything. Uh, I mean she’s American, she says really 

Craig: unique, beautiful bone structure. I mean, she’s just, oh yeah. And she’s still, I mean, I haven’t seen her recently. I have no idea how old she is now.

I believe she’s still alive. I think so. But, uh, the last time I saw her, I mean, she was certainly elderly, but still just stunningly. Beautiful. Well, 

Todd: I mean, her career stretches back to like the early 1950s, like 19 50, 1 only in black and white movies. And she was doing a lot of movies, just like multiple movies a year.

So by this time she is an established actress and it was around. Time a little bit before this, that she started appearing on TV, she was in the original series of star Trek. She was in an episode of that. She was in Batman as the siren, a couple of times, the classic Adam West Batman. But you know, even though I remember mostly from TV, she is one of those rare actresses who bounced a lot.

Between TV and movies, which was not common, then usually you were either a TV person or a movie person right now. It’s, there’s no barrier really, but back then it was so she’s she’s. Yeah, pretty amazing. And, um, I would say that her story is one of the most, um, iconic. It’s not my favorite one, but it’s definitely one of the most iconic in here.

Well, she’s leading up at the tail end with these last five or so people and she stops, uh, in the middle of this. Catacomb, because she breached that she’s wearing is fallen and she’s looking for it. And she was like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. And then guys kind of help stop and help her find the brooch.

And then they can kind of see the tour guide in the rest of the group disappear further down. And then as they proceed, uh, they proceed through an open. That leads them into this huge chamber. And there’s a almost skull shaped rock and a man sitting on a plaque, a big stone chair in front of it. And they’ll just kind of wander in and the door shuts behind them.

This whole notion that this could happen was scary to me as a kid. It was like, you know, cause my family would go on trips and we kind of do interesting things. We had went on a mine tour once, you know, and, and this whole notion that, oh my God, like here’s like a normal controlled thing, right? Like a tour.

Group in a tourist attraction in the middle of the day or whatever that suddenly gets lost in here in way late. And now they’ve entered this secret scary chamber with this mysterious old man sitting up on the throne in a. 

Craig: Right. And he’s not, you know, it’s not the crypt keeper of the nineties. I mean, this is just a guy in a row, but eh, he’s still effectively creepy.

And the slamming of the door is creepy. The crypt keeper just kind of starts kind of casual conversations. 

Todd: What did you come from?

A kind of, we get out of it.

I’m in a hurry. 

Craig: I really can’t 

Todd: wait. I have an appointment.

I show you I have a.

And what are your plans 

Craig: when you leave here? And it just cuts immediately to the first store. Which is on IMD B, they’re given titles. They’re not titled, you know, we don’t get a title card or anything, but it’s, it’s all through the house. And those of you who are fans of the podcast will be thinking you’re having deja VU because we have done this short before, but we did the Robert Zemeckis directed version from season one of the television series.

And we specifically said that we were doing that one because we knew that we would eventually. To this movie and we didn’t want to do the same one twice, but they’re virtually the same. And it’s, it’s a very simple story. It’s Christmas Eve and her house. Uh, this opulent house is, um, decorated beautifully for Christmas.

And her husband is walking around. I think he’s got a, you know, a drink and he’s got a little gift that he puts under the tree and he has a seat in chair or recliner or something. And you see. Some sort of instrument picked up from the fireplace. I guess it’s a poker, but it looks more like a sword or something before you even really see her.

You just see this sword come down on the back of the husband’s head and then it pans up and it’s her she’s killed her husband very calmly. She goes to the. Uh, pulls out an insurance policy. And so we know that she 

Todd: has a motive, right. And then from upstairs, you hear mommy, mommy, mommy. And she goes running upstairs and you’re just like, oh shit.

You know, there’s a kid. Yeah. And 

Craig: that’s the thing in both in both this and the original, I really don’t understand what this woman’s plan was like, what are you going to do with the body? You got a kid upstairs anyway. The, the only other notable thing is, you know, after she kills him, she. Picks up that present that he had put under the tree and she opens the card and it says something like to the most wonderful wife a guy could ever want or something like that, something very kind and heartfelt and she just kind of rolls her eyes and opens it up.

And it’s that broach from the beginning. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. Which is interesting, right. Because what the crypt keeper had asked her in the crypt was what are you planning to do after you leave? Right. So wha how did she already have the broach when she later, presumably she supposed to be getting it for Christmas?

Right? So it’s a little jarring when that happens. And at one point I wondered, is this a mistake, but no later on, we’ll find out, but I really like this story because it’s, it might be one of the, I think it’s one of the stronger of the set, because all these stories are. Yeah, and they’re quite economical.

You might say too economical, but I like what it does here in a very, very short time. And I think very effectively is it brings this husband in who’s seems to be full of joy. He’s smiling. He’s written his letter to the best wife. He’s like with glee, he’s putting the package under you go, okay. This is a happy man who loves.

Then you see his wife kills him and she’s pretty stone faced about it. She runs over, pulls out the insurance policy and CC. Okay. Here’s the motivation. She has insurance policy. I. In the HBO series, they add like a, a lover, an affair. Yeah. Lover here. They don’t have that. And then she’s like dragging the body to kind of clean it up.

Just like I saw reviewer who said something like, just like, it’s one more damn thing. She has to take care of our Christmas. And then you hear mommy, mommy, and she runs upstairs. And you realize that they have a little girl, right? I mean, maybe I’m just become really sensitive, but like my heart just, I was just like, this is all kinds of wrong.

And I just hate this woman. Yeah. She she’s wicked 

Craig: and heartless and greedy. I mean, she’s just, she’s a bad person. Yeah. 

Todd: And you get this all in, in three weeks. It’s great. Right. 

Craig: And, and the daughter asks about daddy and I don’t remember what her response is, but like it’s obvious that the daughter loves her father.

This can’t be a bad man. The mom is just wicked. 

Todd: She says, good night, mommy. And then mom’s like, okay. And then she starts to close the door and she yells out the door. Good night, day. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s terrible. And then she hears on the radio that a killer, an insane killer has escaped from the mental institution and is said to be prowling about in a Santa suit in this area he’s terribly dangerous and be careful.

And then Sansa immediately. Um, menacing outside her house eventually, you know, she sees him out there. She runs around locking all the windows and doors. Uh, I actually thought it was kind of amusing that once she got all the windows and doors locked, she didn’t really seem particularly concerned. Like, nah, he probably won’t get in, but her next conundrum is.

She can’t call the police because her dead husband is lying in the floor. And how is she going to explain that? So she doesn’t call the police. And like you said, this happens very quickly. I don’t remember exactly how it happens, but as she’s kind of running around, she runs into the living room. And sees she had pulled a curtain.

There’s like an entryway for the front door. And then she had pulled a curtain to kind of close off the entryway and she sees that the curtains are blowing in the wind. And, uh, I think her daughter steps out and says he came mommy. He came, Santa came, I let him in. And then, and then she pulls Santa in and, uh, in the, uh, remake, the HBO, are you.

It just ends on Mary Ellen trainer, just screaming and screaming and screaming here. We actually see Joan Collins get strangled by Santa and then. That’s the end and it cuts back to the crypt. It’s very short, but I really liked it. You know, Joan Collins gets top billing in this movie. She only has 15 lines and they’re very, very brief.

I can only imagine that this took a little to no time at all to film, but, uh, it’s fun and it sets a nice pace and a nice tone for the rest of the movie. 

Todd: Yes, right now the next one is. The one that has stuck with me for all of these years, uh, in so much so that I re you know, it’s, I saw this as a kid. And then for years after I couldn’t tell you where I saw it.

I just, it just stuck in my head and bothered me for a very, very long time. And it also stars one of my all-time favorite actors, Peter Cushing. Oh, wait, 

Craig: that’s not the next one. You skipped your. 

Todd: Oh, you’re right. I’m okay. All right. All right. I forget what I said. Oh, you’re right. Reflect. Oh yeah. Okay. So I’m going to revise exactly what I said.

This next one for some reason is probably my least favorite of them, because I feel like it projects it’s ending a mile away. And so I was just a little impatient for it to get there, but I’ve also seen it before. So, um, maybe you have a different take. Anyway, the crib keeper talks to a man Carl and says, well, how about you?

And he says, well, I’m on my way to see my wife. He, uh, 

Craig: you know, as soon as that’s the thing, like they’re introduced very quickly, like, okay, what are you going to do? And then it. Just to the next one. And when we see him, he has bags packed and he’s, he’s saying goodbye to his wife and kids seemingly just for a business trip.

But as soon as he leaves, he doesn’t go on a business trip. He goes to, um, his mistress, his apartment. I don’t know what their relationship is. Uh, I may be secretary, but her name is Susan and they leave together and they, you know, they’re running away together. Susan drops. And, uh, Carl falls asleep while she’s driving and he starts talking in his sleep.

Um, he’s, he’s upset and he screams no and wakes up from this bad dream immediately after that, they’re in a terrible wreck. They’re run off the road. The car is in flames, but he has apparently survived. But now all of a sudden the camera works shoots to hit. Point of view. So we’re seeing everything from his POV shot and he looks for Susan, but she’s nowhere to be found.

And so he starts wandering around and he wanders under a bridge and he comes upon this homeless man and the homeless man takes one, look at him and, and kind of has a look of horror on a trace and runs away. Um, he tries to flag down a driver, but the driver is also scared. He goes home. I think. If I noticed correctly that the name on his doorbell was different.

Um, but it’s his, but it’s his house and his wife opens the door, but she’s also scared of him. And there’s a new man there. Um, presumably her husband. So he goes back to Susan’s apartment and she opens the door and you can tell by the way that she’s acting that she’s blind and she is shocked. Not by his physical appearance, but just by the fact that he’s there, because she says you died, that was two years ago and you were dead.

And so he’s like what? And he looks down at the glass tabletop and sees his reflection and he’s burned and he looks like a 

Todd: zombie looking. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, he looks horrible quick cut. He wakes up from that dream again. In the car and screams? No. And it’s a final destination moment where like, is he going to act quickly enough to change?

No, he’s not, they have the wreck again, uh, and he’s dead and that’s the end of the story. I didn’t love it, but it was economic enough. It, you know, it, it was quick. Um, I think that the pacing of this one. Had somewhat of a negative effect on the characterization. I didn’t really feel like I knew these characters.

I didn’t really care about them. Like there wasn’t that, you know, his wife seemed nice, but it’s not like we lingered with her or anything. So, you know, I, I didn’t have that same kind of emotional trigger that I had with the daughter in the first one. So I didn’t really care, but not a bad story.

Nonetheless, I agree with you wholeheartedly that this next story is the best of the bunch. And I just think. It’s it’s a perfect tales from the crypt story, but there’s also a kind of sentimental beauty about it that I think is just, is actually very sad and very touching and Peter Cushing stars. And I think that this, everything that I’ve just said is entirely because of him.

He just does an amazing job. Part and he wanted this role. He was offered a different role. I don’t remember which one, but he read this role and he connected with it and he wanted to do it and they expanded their role for him. And some people, you know, I, I’ve only seen a couple of things, a few things that Peter Cushing has been in.

Some of his fans believed us to be maybe one of his best friends 

Todd: performances. And I think he actually said that it was one of his favorite performances ever, and he apparently put a lot of his own heart into it. And maybe part of the reason he asked for the role is that he himself had been grieving his wife’s death.

And this is about a man whose wife, you know, died a while ago and he’s grieving it. And so it probably comes through in his acting for sure. Yeah. How interesting, right? That you get a role like this? Uh, what other movie did we do where something similar had happened? Craig, do you remember where the actor was it the omen?

I don’t remember. I can’t remember which movie it was, but it was a similar deal where an actor had really gunned for the role and they, they didn’t even think he would take it because it was kind of hitting too close to home 

Craig: because he had lost a child. I don’t remember if it was the omen. It may 

Todd: have been anyway.

Oh yeah. So a younger guy speaks up. I mean, he’s. Thirties probably. Uh, and it’s basically like, all right, tell my story now, you know, if we’re going to do this, get it over with, and we jumped right into this story and you see Peter Cushing as this old man who’s living in a home and the English countryside, I guess, sort of a across the street from this young guy who spoke up the guy’s name is James and he lives, uh, I guess, with this.

This man, uh, who Peter Cushing plays. His name is Arthur Grimm’s Dyke, and he is just the neighborhood kind, gentle man toward kids. You know, he has kids over at his house. He’s makes toys for them. He has a bunch of dogs that he clearly cares for and loves and is entertaining the children. And, uh, James has nothing bad, but bad stuff to say.

You know, it’s just typical class kind of thing. He’s a upper-class Dick. And he thinks that this man’s house is an eyesore and his dogs are barking and he keeps the children around, makes things noisy and he’s bringing the property values in the neighborhood down. And wouldn’t it be great to just get rid of?

Craig: Yeah. And he, and he’s a garbage collector, so he must be disgusting. And I’m sure the inside of his house is disgusting. That’s what makes this one. So. Uh, gosh, heart-wrenching I think is because that guy, did he say his name was James? He’s just such a Dick. Like he has absolutely no motivation to do anything to this guy.

Other than that, he doesn’t like, there’s no reason for him not to like him. He just decides that he doesn’t. And then he proceeds to destroy the man’s life. This man has done nothing, but bring joy to the children of the neighborhood. And this James Guy just goes absolutely out of his way to completely destroy.

His life and it’s heartbreaking to watch. I mean, he just, he chips away at it. Gradually. The first thing he does is he a in the middle of the night, James goes over to Grimm’s Dyke’s next door neighbor’s house and digs up his beautiful prior. Rose garden. And the next morning, the neighbor man decides that it must have been Grimm’s dykes dogs, even though the dogs are pinned up.

Um, so the police come and take his dogs. I mean, this guy, he’s a widower. He’s all alone. He’s childless. He’s all over. You know, he’s got these dogs and he’s got these neighborhood kids. The first thing they take away from him is his dogs and being a dog guy that gutted me that then it just gets even, it just gets even worse from there.

Todd: Yeah. So then, um, he decides to write an letter to the city council and persuades them to fire him from his. Right. Remember what we rationale was for that. 

Craig: I do remember what the rationale is because it was so horrible right before that I should mention that, uh, Grimm’s Dyke throughout. This is kind of trying to contact his wife through a Ouija board.

And at one point she. Either points to, I think, points too, or no, he does. I can never remember what it’s called. That kind of psychic writing, where somebody is writing through him and he’s kind of in a trance state or whatever, and the word is danger. So he he’s aware that something might be happening, but he has no idea what, um, the neighbor convinces the city council to have him.

Fired he’s up for retirement and like two or three months, but this guy says, if you fire him now, you won’t have to pay him his pension and you can hire somebody else at a much lower rate. So they do. So not only do they take away his job, but they take 

Todd: away his pension and this guy, you just see the breakdown on his face.

He’s just, he just like is utterly beside himself, but he’s not running around screaming or yelling. He just is a sad. Lonely old man, and he doesn’t know what to do. And he doesn’t have anyone to talk to except the pictures of his dead wife and 

Craig: eventually one warm spot. Sad sad tale. One of his little dogs comes home.

It was just the sweetest thing that he hears the dog barking. He opens the door and he picks him up. He’s like, oh, like, ah, God just, he’s so happy to just have somebody. But the worst is yet to 

Todd: come. Then he basically write some letters or something to the parents around the neighborhood and says the bad guy does.

Yeah, I’m sorry. James does and says, Hey, you know, aren’t you worried that your kid is, kids are playing with this, this dirty old man, you know, basically calling him a child molester and to which the parents freak out. And so then they divert their kids away from the house. Say, I don’t want you going over there anymore.

And so now he’s like,

It works, no children, no one to make toys. So

people always got each other had.

It’s heart breaking. 

Craig: Yeah. And then the neighbor has the entire town sent him Valentines. And so he’s super excited on Valentine’s day. The mailman’s like, oh, Mr. Grim steak, you got a lot of mail today. He’s like, oh, that’s nice. And he sits down and he opens the first one and it looks like a nice Valentine and every single one of them is brutally cruel.

Todd: Sure my whole day, sweetheart, this big noise, your children, haven’t heard this perfume, but you only smell your children.

Fee is beautiful. If it’s own approvement, it. Allentown isn’t cause she’ll presence who is,

Craig: and I feel that, and that’s, I that’s it, you know, that’s the, uh, straw that breaks the camel’s back. And I don’t blame this guy at all. You know, the, the neighbor, the neighbor across the street complaints about hearing the dog barking and he’s like that dog’s been barking for days. So they go over there.

First of all the bad guy, James is like, oh my God, his house is pristine. Like he just assumed because he was a garbage collector that he would be a dirty person. And in fact, he’s not, his house is very well kept. Um, very nice. And, but they find him, he, he is hung himself. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s, it’s horrible. And even, they seem a little surprised by that.

Uh, but not too sad about it, then cut to one year later. And it’s Valentine’s day again. And they’re sitting in there just kind of talking to James and his father. And it’s interesting too, because you can see that his father is not really cool with what’s happening, but he’s also not doing anything to stop it.

You just see some discomfort, but he’s, you know, doesn’t seem to care enough. To do anything. Uh, and James sits down at his desk and whatever, and I think he absentmindedly pulls a drawer out and there are some Valentines still in there. Um, and that reminds him, you know, of the previous, uh, of, of what went down the previous year.

And you almost see a flash of. On his face. I think I’m no, no. Am I wrong? Did you kind of detect that too? 

Craig: Uh, I regret, I don’t know, but you see that there’s at least some recognition like, oh, maybe that was mean, 

Todd: and then a shot of the graveyard, just this classic smokey graveyard shot comes up to a grave of a Grimm’s Dyke and then you see a.

Come up through the grass and it kind of cuts back and forth, and then he just kind of full on, comes out of the grave. So, you know, what’s about to happen. And, uh, I think James kind of comes out into the living room or something and Grimm’s Dyke is in there in full on. Zombie mode and comes towards him.

And I don’t know if we hear a scream or something like that. And in the morning his father comes around and it comes in and sort of looking for him. Uh, can’t find anything and then walks over and sees the desk and he’s face down on his desk and there’s blood and stuff on his shirt. And there’s a crumpled up.

Uh, was it a box or is it just a crumpled up piece 

Craig: of paper? Crumpled up piece of paper. Like you can see the top part, but the bottom part is like crumpled up and folded over. He reads is happy. Valentine’s day. You were mean and cruel right from the start. Now you really have no dot.dot. And then the father pulls down the page and literally James, his heart is cut out and wrapped up in the note and it’s still beating, still 

Todd: beating.

That was a nice touch, a little silly. Wow, this is a 

Craig: great story. I mean, it’s just, I just really liked this story and I can’t say enough, you know, there, I, I it’s burned in my brain, the image, a close-up image of Peter Cushing’s face and his eyes just completely welling with tears and 

Todd: his lip quivering just it’s heartbreaking.

Craig: It really is. It really, really is. And so, again, It’s nice to see the bad guy, get his come up. And, but of all of them, this is the one that is the most uh heart-wrenching and in a very good way. I think it gives the movie a little bit of gravity that it otherwise wouldn’t have had. And that’s nice. 

Todd: It’s a nice bag.

Oh, God, it’s, it’s amazing. And without Peter Cushing’s performance, it just, it wouldn’t hit the same way. I don’t think the role 

Craig: was not, it wasn’t even a speaking role until Peter Cushing, uh, asked specifically for it. And in asking specifically for it, he took a pay cut that’s how badly he wanted to do it.

And it clearly resonated with. And 

Todd: again with such a simple story, more or less like the layers here, you know, he’s doing this Weegee board connection with his dead wife. And you know, that made me think about Harry Houdini. You know, Harry Houdini was, you know, he, we know he was obsessed with the occult because he missed his wife.

He wanted to be with his wife and he ended up exposing me. Simply because he was going to mediums, trying to find a way to connect with his dead wife and the afterlife and being frustrated because he couldn’t find a single one. Honest that was actually capable of doing. And that’s when he started his career exposing the mediums.

It’s all in the process of actually trying to hoping that there is an authentic one. He just wanted to be with his wife. And it’s interesting here like that Grimm’s Dyke is dabbling in the occult himself, trying to communicate with her. It just it’s a layer of desperation and resonance. That just, it was unnecessary really by.

Boy, it adds a nice touch. It’s it’s interesting. It is. 

Craig: And then of course, cut back to the crypt for a second. And the next person up is a guy named Ralph. And this one by the way is called wish you were here. And what’s interesting to me about this one is it literally is the story of the monkeys. Yeah.

And they even referenced that fact what we’re going through seems an awful lot. Like the monkey’s paw. Yeah, it does. Cause it’s 

Todd: same story with maybe a slightly gory twist at the end, but, but yeah, you’re right. It’s the same thing. And ISI comics would do this too, but most of what they wrote was original, but they would often say, Hey, and now we’re featuring an adaptation of a story by Ray, Brad.

And so they would give credit where credit was due. And there were some really great little stories in there. Like they even took us his short story, dark carnival, which you know, was made in. Eventually something wicked this way comes and they adapted that in their comics. So, uh, it wasn’t unusual for tales in the Crip to take a classic store and do their own adaptation of it as well.

Yeah. I mean, this is probably one of my, uh, I said that the second one was my least favorite. This one wasn’t really high up there either, just because I’m so familiar with the monkeys Paul’s story, right. 

Craig: Then each week, the details. And again, it’s really short. Um, Ralph is a bad businessman and so his lawyer tells him that he needs to sell all of his real estate and his property.

Um, if he wants to, you know, even land on his feet, um, he, when he tells his wife, his wife, Just happens to amble over to a statue, like being sad that she has to sell her stuff. And she’s like, wait a second. I feel like I remember that whoever we bought this statue from told us at grants, us three wishes and 

Todd: wasn’t it it’s like an Oriental statue.

And it’s like, I don’t know where they got it. Where did he say? Like in Singapore or something like that. And then she. Rhyming English and scription at the base of it. Right. 

Craig: But the bottom is kind of rubbed out. So they can’t really get the whole inscription, which is ominous. And that’s where one of them makes a reference to the monkey’s pie.

I think it’s the husband, the wife, the wife, offhandedly just wishes for lots and lots of money. And Ralph’s like, oh, don’t, don’t do that. 

Todd: Yeah, it doesn’t end well, 

Craig: the too late. And so. Seconds later the phone rings and it’s, Ralph’s lawyer calling him in and he’s like, uh, you need to come in. It’s about money.

It’s important. He gets in the car and, um, he’s driving along. And then there’s this creepy guy who had been lingering outside the house ever since the wish was made. And now this guy is chasing. Ralph, Ralph’s driving his car. This guy’s chasing him on a motorcycle 

Todd: know you’ve got like a skull helmet or skull mask on.

That’s what you don’t really 

Craig: see until Ralph looks in his rear view mirror and sees it very close up. It’s so 

Todd: bizarre. I 

Craig: think that this was supposed to be like death incarnate. It looks very much like a man in a mask. They didn’t do much to make it look supernatural. I mean, it just, it looks like a dude in a mask, but whatever he is, he’s in a car accident and he’s killed.

Um, but as white, just like in the monkeys pod, the exact same thing happens. The wife because of his insurance policy now is very, very wealthy. So she got her wish. So then 

Todd: the lawyer comes over. I love this. It is so the monkey’s pop, but the best part about it is how they keep referencing the monkey’s pie in.

And right. Just sorta like we’re thinking at, at least the movie kind of acknowledges it. The lawyer comes over and, you know, to give her the money and say, you know, this is the insurance plan. And she mentioned so the wish and she says, oh, now I want to wish him. Back. And he’s like, no, no, no, don’t do that.

Don’t do that. Cause I read a similar story where something like this happen and the dead son came back, how he was mangled and stuff. And, but she does it anyway. She 

Craig: tries to cricket and that’s common too. Like what does she say? She says, I want him back. Just as he was before the accident, before the accident, right.

Todd: And those doors open for creepy supernatural pallbearers, come in, drop his, his coffin off in there and leave. And it turns out that he died of a heart attack just before the car crash. So he’s still. In the coffin. Right? 

So 

Craig: then she thinks that she’ll out smart and again, and she wishes that Ralph were alive again right now and forever.

And he immediately wakes up riving and screaming in pain. And the lawyer’s like,

don’t you realize she’s been in bombed?

You know, the implication here is that he’s now doomed to an eternity of this suffering. And so she starts hacking at him with like an ax or something. Um, his guts are flying out. But he 

Todd: won’t die. The hand is crawling across his chest. He can’t, he won’t die. And I remembered this story vividly from the comics and, uh, and the very last panel of this is this wife.

Who’s just standing there with an almost maniacally insane look on her face as she has literally hacked this body to tiny little bits that are still moving and twitching around. Well, like just a pile of pulp and goo that is still moving in eternity. It’s it’s pretty terrifying idea actually. 

Craig: Yeah, it is.

And that’s another one that they remade under a different title for the television series. The last one is blind alleys, and I thought this one. Good to in a satisfying way. Um, this one’s about a guy named major Rogers, a military guy, apparently who is taking over as the new director at the Elm Ridge home for the blind.

And he has a German shepherd named Shane. And basically what it comes down to is it’s a. Uh, home, I suppose, four blind men. Um, most of these men are elderly and immediately, you know, it seems like they have things pretty nice when he arrives, but he immediately begins to neglect them. It’s a terrible winter outside, but he turns the heat off at eight o’clock at night because he tells them there’s no reason for them to be out of bed after that time.

Um, he changes their food rations and only gives them bad. And there’s this one blind man who kind of serves as the representative for all of them. And his name is Carter and he’s played by Patrick McGee. He was one of the only people that I recognized in this movie and it took me a second, but I quickly realized that he was the innkeeper from.

Monster party in the whom goo story 

Todd: over that. I do. I do remember that. And he’s a pretty famous actor though. Yeah. 

Craig: And I recognize, I recognize them from when we watched that movie, I recognized him and did some investigating and he was a, in a clockwork orange too. Um, and you’re right. He’s done quite a bit of stuff, but he’s good 

Todd: in this.

Here’s a bit of a, um, I don’t know, he has a bit of a dark brown look to him in this. Does it the way his hair is kind of wild 

Craig: ominous, but yes. Oh for sure. Yeah. A little crazy. I mean, he’s not crazy. In fact, 

Todd: he seems very sane and smart and he’s very patient too. Right. He keeps going into this man’s office and saying, sir, you know, the men are complaining about the food ration, sir.

We’re getting a little more angry. So. So-and-so needs medical treatment, you know, he’s freezing and all this stuff. And every time that he goes into the office, it’s like there is, um, major Rogers. Who’s got his legs up on an easy chair with his dog there, and he’s got a nice warm fire beside him or, or he’s dying.

Yeah, dining on steak and all adds. I mean, they make a very strong contrast, which, which is also, I mean, I think there’s an implication here that well, they’re blind anyway. So he doesn’t think they’re going to even know or notice or, or, well, he probably doesn’t even care anyway. Right. But at one time, at one point in there after I think the last time McGee leaves his office and he stops by a painting on.

And he says, oh, Mr. So-and-so I, who I think was the previous guy, something like, you never would have let this happen or something like that, which I thought was interesting. 

Craig: He also explains to the major he’s like, you don’t understand how losing one sense affects a person when you lose one sense, then your other senses are heightened.

So what he’s trying to explain is that they’re suffering more, you know, the fact that. Th th they are more sensitive to the cold, right. And 

Todd: these other things that worse to them in the food. 

Craig: Right. But he just doesn’t care. And, and at some point the residents come in in a group and are a little bit more adamant and the major basically sixes dog on them, you know, they’re, there’s not anything that they can do.

The, the last straw is when. One of the patients freezes to death in the night. And this is a patient who has been sick for days. Carter has been trying to convince the major to get. Uh, doctor in. And, um, finally, when the major comes to check on the guy himself, he’s, he’s dead and that’s the last straw. And then the residents put into effect a plan, and it’s a very smart plan and it’s a wicked and it’s.

Todd: Yeah, they get his dog. They lure his dog with food that they’ve been saving like over days or something. Right. If everybody gives like a scrap of meat at the plate gets passed around, this is cool. Like, right. Like it’s like, they all have a plan now, like this isn’t a one guy’s execution. It’s like, they’ve all agreed to do this.

So they lure the dog away, uh, into a room in the basement. The major comes downstairs, looking for his dog and they lock him in a separate room right next to his dog. He can hear the dog barking and the, there they’re starving the dog. In the meantime, they get to work hammering and banging and stuff like that.

And the major can hear something’s going on, but he doesn’t know what a, and we can see these guys picking up wood and razorblades and all this stuff. It’s like, what are they going to do? Eventually they swing open the door of his room and he steps out and he is in gosh, it’s like saw before saw he’s stepping into a big trap that is a tunnel made of wood and chicken wire and barbed wire.

And he starts walking through it and it gets more and more narrow. Until it gets to this point where it’s so narrow and they have put razorblades in there sticking straight out of the wood on both sides of the walls that he asked to extremely gingerly, get sideways and very carefully and get nicked in the process.

Um, squeezed between these two rows of razorblades and he gets to the other end of it. There’s a door at the other end and it swings open and it’s his dog and his dog is now hungry and just rabbit and ravenous. And he immediately starts to attack him, which forces him to turn around and run into those razorblades.

We don’t really see do we, we don’t really see anything happen. We just know what’s going to happen. Uh, just a few close ups, you know, they turn the lights off on them to 

Craig: yes. And just leave him. Yeah. The movie is only rated, uh, PG and it is, I’m not surprised that you saw it on a Saturday afternoon. Yeah.

You could air this anytime during the day, the only, the only scene is the one from which you were here, where the guts come out, they for the initial release, they did cut that for the. Original release, but they stuck it back in later and you know, it’s gross, but it doesn’t look real at all. It’s not even bloody, it’s like white.

So yeah, it’s tame as far as gore and violence are concerned, but, um, the subject matter is still unsettling and, um, spooky. A lot. I liked all the stories, you know, we have to finish up the wrap-around. Um, basically the stories are all told. Does he just tell them they can? 

Todd: I think they say that they want to leave.

And they’re like, all right, now you’ve told all the stories and they demand a leave and he says, oh, you you’re not going to leave. You can’t leave. And that’s when he tells them straight up. Um, I wasn’t warning you. What would have. Um, but I’m telling you, what’s already happened. You have all died without repentance and right.

So then it, it makes sense now with, um, her breach, right. That she had on that’s why she had it on now they’re in a hell basically. Now I know, you know, I mean, how did they get there from a thing, you know, maybe they all woke up in this tour group, whatever who knows. I mean, there’s a lot of questions about.

But it’s a cool twist. 

Craig: Yeah. And the, you know, the door opens, announced, just opening into a fiery Inferno. And the first guy, I don’t remember who it is, um, kind of falls in and, you know, you see the shot of him screaming, falling into the fiery pit, but then the rest of them, it’s kind of like, Except our fate.

Like they just, they just, the, the movie ends with them just walking through the door and the door closes behind them. And then the crypt keeper addresses the audience directly with some sort of cryptic message at the end. 

Todd: He’s like, and now who’s next. Maybe you.

Yeah, 

Craig: it’s a, it’s a good movie. And it was fun for me to watch just because it was a nice call back to one of my very favorite shows. I mean, not even a callback for me. I mean, obviously this came first, but, um, I hadn’t seen it. So it was nice to kind of dive back into that twisted wicked little world for a minute.

Like you said, it feels a little bit cheap. I attributed that mostly to the time more so than to the quality, the acting, I think. Quite good. 

Todd: Yeah. Pretty solid drought. Well, and we’ve got great actors in here. Ralph Richardson is the crypt keeper and he is, uh, by this point, just a veteran, mostly of the stage, you know, one of these sort of John Barrymore, contemporaries, you know, sort of legendary in the English and the British theater.

And so he would have been very recognizable to the people there and then an even played, I mean, up until like 1981. I don’t know if you ever saw the time bandits. That’s one of my. Movies a Terry Gilliam did it. Isn’t doctors, Jovago, you know, very, very well-respected actor and he sort of plays it that way.

I mean, this guy’s 70 something and he’s sitting up there on the throne, really not moving much, just gravely speaking to each of these folks and very seriously. It’s fine. It’s fine for this movie, I think. But as a tales from the crypt movie, especially based on the comics, just to not have that sort of gleefully punny host in between all of these things was, uh, the only downer.

But I think that they made the choice. They felt like they needed to make at that time period, they struggled 

Craig: with that. They struggled, you know, the script went through several different drafts and I’m in one, the crypt keeper only directly address the. And another, there was no crypt keeper at all. And then we ended up with what we got.

Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s definitely different than the iteration that I am accustomed to. And I prefer the iteration that I’m accustomed to, but you know, this is it. This is its own thing. So I’m not, I, I don’t feel a need to compare. This is its own thing. It came first. Yeah. 

Todd: I have my own. I’m again, I’m so nostalgic for this movie because I watched as a kid, it made such a deep impression on me.

Those two things, the wraparound story, I thought just was terrifying idea at the time. And then this, oh God man, that poor old man just getting destroyed was stuck with me for, for the rest of my life after I watched it. And by the way, did you know that, um, . Who’s credited as the writer on this, he actually was a producer of the monster.

And you, we talked about the monster. Yeah. And he also produced a bunch of these other Amicus ones as well. So, um, he wrote, uh, the vault of horror. 

Craig: Yeah. This movie inspired. I mean, like you said, there was a sequel, but it also inspired modern horror writers and directors. Um, I think it was Stephen King and George remarried.

I said who it was, where they were actually going to remake this movie and that the result of that ended up being creep show. And then of course there were several SQLs to that there, I think. Really most, if not all of the modern horror anthologies that we watch and enjoy. Oh, at least some credit to this movie.

Todd: Yeah, for sure. It’s not, and it’s not the first anthology, but it definitely made it a deeper impact than some of the other. I just probably also because the property and the people involved so solid movie, I’m so glad we kicked off our month of anthologies with this movie because, uh, uh, you know, I think you’ve had a movie previously or it’s just like, okay, once we do this one on the podcast, I can, uh, I can die a happy man for me.

This is basically that movie. 

Craig: Well, and you’ve wanted to do it forever. And I don’t know why it’s taken us so long to get to it, but I don’t think that there was any other choice to kick off this month. 

Todd: Well, thank you again for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend.

You’ll find us online just by Googling Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast. Just find us anywhere we are on Facebook or Twitter or our website, and leave us a comment there. Let us know what movies you like to see and what you thought of this episode and this film yourself until next time. And I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Also known as “Jaws 4”, this final installment in the Jaws franchise is often maligned as one of the worst movies EVER made. While we’re not sure we’d go quite THAT far – in fact, we find a lot to like about it – there’s also a fair amount of eye-rolling and ridiculousness going on.

Listen to this week’s New Year’s episode to find out what, if anything, makes this film entertaining. And thanks to Chris for the long-standing request!

Trans

Jaws: The Revenge (1987)

Episode 283, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we finished our month of Christmas stuff, but we would be remiss if we don’t take advantage of yet another holiday that comes around once a year and honor new year. And we have been fortunate enough to be able to find a few horror movies that are tangentially at least related to new years.

I mean, nothing’s going to be bloody new year or new year’s evil. Those are harder to come by. But, uh, this year we have a request that has been a long standing request by Chris. Chris. Our loyal listener has been reminding us constantly that Jaws: The Revenge is a film that he would like us to do. Craig, of course immediately got excited about doing jaws to revenge because apparently you’ve got quite a history with this one and because it has a, some new years aspect to it, it does take place actually a little bit over Christmas, a little bit over new year’s as well.

So it’s a good bridge movie. Uh, so yeah, here we are. We’re doing 1987, PG 13 rated horror film, Jaws: The Revenge. It is the fourth movie in the Jaws franchise and it is so interesting. We’ve done jaws, 3d. I still enjoy that one better. It was just totally wackadoodle. And it took place at SeaWorld. And how can you really beat that?

But this film it’s arguably even less plausible, also has some big names in it. And, uh, it has an interesting story, production history. So, uh, I mean, any sequel to jaws is going to have an interesting production history because by the time you’ve hit the fourth one, you do kind of start to wonder if it’s really such a good idea.

Right. But here we are. And it’s the last one actually that we’ve gotten. Right. I don’t think there’s been a jaws movie since 

Craig: this. Well, And official one, there, there is a movie called Cruel Jaws that some people consider a fifth jaws movie, but it doesn’t, there, there are no real connections, 

Todd: some Italian production by, uh, yeah.

Berta Lindsay or something like that. 

Craig: Yeah. I’ve never seen it, but, uh, yeah, no, this is the last one and it’s kind of a big deal because you know, the, the original Jaws, if I’m remembering correctly was kind of the first like big summer blockbuster, like kind of defined. The summer blockbuster movie. I 

Todd: mean, it established the whole concept basically.

Yeah. That studios could have one movie that would be so hyped and so big and have such a mass appeal and be so thrilling that, you know, you do one or two of these in a summer, and then you can bank roll. You know, you can take a risk on all the other films in your catalog because this is what brings your studio the most money.

And obviously one could argue, this has been taken a little too far nowadays, but nonetheless love it or hate it really for this reason before this movie studios had a much wider variety. The films that they would do subjects they would do, um, experimental stuff, things for various audiences, but this sort of solidified the concept that, you know, what we’re playing it safer.

If we can go for a huge hits that are going to appeal to a mass audience, be in that PG/PG-13 realm and just make tons of money all over the world. 

Craig: And it did. And it was a good movie. I mean, it had, there’s lots of interesting stories about it too. I mean, we’ve never done the first one. There are all kinds of stories about how, you know, it’s Steven Spielberg, you know, when he was young.

And, uh, I mean, Steven Spielberg is, is still a fine filmmaker, but I think that, uh, this was. You know, early in his career, arguably, he was climbing the peak to his prime 

Todd: Dwayne. And, but hadn’t really proven himself a hundred percent. 

Craig: Right. But this was huge. I mean, this put him on the map and there were all kinds of problems with the animatronic shark and he had to do creative things about that.

And lots of good stories there. There’s lots of good stories here. What’s what’s I was excited to do this movie because. Um, this is a movie that my sister and I watched regularly, like all the time we watched part three all the time, too, when we were a kid and part three is goofy, but it’s, it’s fun, goofy, like you said, like it’s Jaws at SeaWorld.

Like, come on. Like, that’s not fun about that. 

Todd: Oh God, it’s fun. Goofy. And it’s got hilarious. Special effects was when they were first doing video compositing and it looks terrible, terribly silly, but they’re cheap 3d gags in there. It’s it’s a blast. Yeah. 

Craig: And so we watched that. I watched that a lot when I was little.

And then when jaws four came out, I remember being very excited about it and I wanted my dad to take me to see it in the theater. This was 87. So I would have been about eight. He had taken me to horror movies before. So that wasn’t a huge issue. The issue was right when it came out, we were preparing to take a trip to Florida.

And my mom was scared that if my dad took me to see this movie, that I wouldn’t get in the ocean. So I had to assure them that that wasn’t the case that I knew it was just a movie, whatever. So he did, he took me to see it in the theater. I don’t remember what my thoughts were about it then, but we continued watching it.

It played on cable quite a bit. And I just remember liking it. My sister liked it, but I, of course I hadn’t seen it in God, 15 years, at least. I don’t know. And so I was excited to go back, but this movie also has a terrible, terrible reputation. People just trash. It, it was trashed by the critics. If you read, you know, fan stuff online, I mean, they just talk about how this is just absolutely the worst and it totally killed the franchise.

It’s awful, awful, 

Todd: awful. People sometimes call it one of the worst movies ever, ever. I don’t think it deserves that, but no. 

Craig: Yeah. I went back and watched it yesterday. I don’t get it. I still like this movie, like, well, it’s not that 

Todd: bad. It’s not, but you know, here’s the thing. And this is the thing that I think makes this different from the, well, it doesn’t make it different from the other ones.

I mean, the point of Jaws is kind of like the point of Moby Dick. It’s really not about the shark, right? It’s about the people dealing with the shark and their various obsessions and, and their, their conflict and their issues. Right? Like, I mean, if you don’t want to mess with a shark, you just don’t get.

Right. You know, and I think when this movie was proposed, I believe there was a new studio head at MCA, universal Sydney. Shineberg famous, famous producer, CEO there, um, and thought that if they made another sequel to Jaws, they could make a profit and follow off of like Jaws 3D, even though it’s goofy. And it got panned as well.

It was a commercial success, even though it got, you know, negative reviews. And I think also, uh, universal studios, theme park had a Jaws ride that they thought they could promote as well. Um, and so, you know, he came up with the idea. And not only put it together, but like put it together in super record time.

There are people involved in the productions movie that said in all of their years of working on a movie, they’ve never seen a project come together so fast and be done so quickly. So he really pushed it through. But anyway, the point of Jaws right, is, is the people. And I think to his credit, he sort of recognized that.

And it seems to be when you read the interviews and I did, I went through and read a whole bunch of contemporary interviews of the people involved in the production, doing promotion for this movie, Michael Kane, all these folks who were in it, they all kind of said the same thing. They said, we got involved with it, even though it’s quite silly to do a fourth Jaws movie.

And nobody’s quite sure it’s a good idea because we liked the script because we saw the humanity of the characters. Ellen Brody comes back. They tried to get more people to come back, but, but they wouldn’t. But you know, like Ellen Brody was played by a. Lorraine Gary. Yeah. And she saw a really interesting part here.

And you know what? She does have an interesting part in this movie. She does her characters and she does a good job. Yeah. I think though, by now, your fourth jaws movie, people were maybe expecting a little more. Yeah, I think that’s it. You know, we saw Jaws 3D is full of action. It’s quite gratuitous. And that’s part of what makes it fun and Orca, which, you know, is not made by the same people.

But, uh, we quite liked it because it was goofy and ridiculous, but it had a ton of action. Yeah. It had great set pieces. This movie is surprisingly lacking. I think in that they took what they thought was the key to the original jaws, which one could say is true is, you know, focusing on the characters, but they almost did so much of that, that the frickin shark barely makes an appearance and things don’t really start happening significantly until we’re two thirds of the way through the movie.

So I think that’s, I think that’s the only send this movie commits, you know, I really do. I 

Craig: mean, it definitely. It’s flaws. I mean, the, the premise that, well, that 

Todd: that’s a bigger 

Craig: set. I’ll just put it that way. Yeah. The premise that this shark is, you know, seeking revenge and targeting this one family, I mean, that’s kind of stupid.

I mean, uh, really, if you get into the weeds of what the plot was supposed to be, they really toned down the stupid. Um, I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know. That’s that’s I mean, well, I mean, okay, so the whole revenge thing is kind of stupid the effects. Aren’t great, but you have to take into consideration.

This is 1987. And so the shark looks like a giant bath toy, right? It’s it’s ridiculous. It doesn’t, it has very little motion, very little mobility at all. Like when it comes up out of the water and submerges into the water, it’s it just like floats to the top and then like descends, like that’s not how sharks move.

It doesn’t look real at all. Frankly, I think that I would take this over bad. CGI, at least it’s a real, tangible thing that you can see in that looks not like a real shark, but like an actual real thing, um, that people can react to. Um, so I’ll somewhat forgive it for that, but honestly, I think tonally this.

Takes it back to the tone of the first movie. Yes, it does. It’s it’s, it’s serious. It’s based very much in family and relationships. It’s 

Todd: trying to get us very sympathetic to these characters and people before they start having to face the shark. 

Craig: Yeah. And in that regard, it is not bad. The performances are fine.

These are perfectly fine actors. And I actually am investing. And they’re characters. I care about these people, so so-so okay. Jaws one great movie. You know what I mean? It’s classic. It’s a great movie. I’m going to skip Josh two for now and say jaws three, highly entertaining. Cheesy popcorn, flick goofy, knew what it was doing.

Fun. I enjoyed it. The reason I skipped just two is because Jaws 2, I think is still people hold it in pretty high regard. I find it boring as shit. Like I can’t bring myself to watch it when it’s on. It’s just a retread of the first one. It’s super boring. I like this one better than jaws two. And in some ways I think it’s a better movie than Jaws 3D.

I just don’t really get all the hate. Cause it’s it’s, it’s not that bad. And, and well, and like you said, I think that the most interesting things that we’ll talk about are some of the behind the scenes things. Cause there are some really interesting things going on, but this movie takes us right back in the beginning, um, to Amity island, the setting of the first one, and you get this classic shark POV where they sample, you know, the, the original jaws theme is just kind of that classic, you know, jaws opening, the underwater shots, the surfacing shots.

You don’t see the shark, it’s all POV, which was established in the first one, primarily because the animatronic didn’t work. So they had to work with, uh, POV type stuff. And then we cut back to Ellen Brody, the wife of. Martin Brody, the main character from the first movie played by Lorraine, Gary, who I don’t know a whole lot about.

I know that she was an actress, but I also know that her boyfriend was a studio head and a lot of people think. Got maybe her role in jaws for that reason, but whatever, she’s fine. She’s back. And she’s making dinner with her youngest son, Sean, 

Todd: who is super annoying. 

Craig: He’s really annoying. We’re getting a big tree and we’re getting out all the old ornaments and we’re going to do it right.

And we’re putting out cookies in a bottle of beer for sale. All right, we’ll do it. All right, Tiffany, do you have any idea what a madman you’re marrying. I got to go check in. Okay. See you later. Bye. You too, Sean. And his brother, Michael, their children. In the first movie, uh, Michael is a teenager in the second movie and they’re adults in the third movie.

And in the third movie, Michael is played by Dennis Quaid and they tried to get him to come back for this movie. And he wasn’t interested, uh, which is fine, but kind of too bad. No, I wouldn’t have mind seeing him come back. Bess Armstrong who played his girlfriend in, in part three, they wanted to get them both back, um, and both declined.

So they recast them. But the actors that they recast are perfectly fine. Anyway, Ellen is making dinner and she gets a phone call from her granddaughter Thea who ends up being one of the main characters in this movie. She’s very, she’s absolutely adorable. And I think. Uh, great child actress. She, I feel like she’s just one of those kids that gets acting that gets that acting is just pretending.

And so it comes up, she comes across as very natural, very childlike. 

Todd: Well, she didn’t do much except, um, I mean she did ducky in the land before time. And Marie and all dogs go to heaven. Those are the last two things she did. And I, I love both of those movies. I loved them as a 

Craig: kid. Yeah. And her story is absolutely tragic.

I mean, uh, it, it must have been, uh, an abusive relationship. Her family was in, because I think just her dad was crazy. And when she was cast in this movie, she and her mother were going to The Bahamas. Uh, most of this movie was shot in Hawaii. Uh, but I think that they did some of it in The Bahamas. And, you know, as she and her mother were getting ready to leave, the father held a knife to her.

I mean, this is, we’re talking like an eight year old girl, you know, held a knife to her throat and threatened to kill her and said, if they didn’t come back from the shoot, he would kill them both. And, um, so they, I mean, they did go back, unfortunately, because then just a little over a year later, he did kill them both and then himself and, and that’s terrible.

I mean, I think that she probably had a very promising career ahead of her and tragically that was taken from her super sad and makes, you know, kind of makes watching the movie sad. Cause she’s so cute. But anyway, you know, it it’s, it’s family stuff just reintroducing us to the family. Sean’s got a fiance.

They’re getting married soon. It’s Christmas, it’s Christmas Eve. But Sean, uh, gets, uh, I guess he has followed in his father’s footsteps, which is out of keeping with part three. But apparently the writers of this movie didn’t watch part two or three. So there are some inconsistencies in part three, it’s established that Sean was so traumatized by the events of his childhood, that he moved to Colorado and wanted to be as far away from the water as he possibly could be in this movie.

Either living again, an Amity or never left Amity and he’s followed in his father’s footsteps and he is, uh, an officer, uh, on the island and there’s a last minute call and he’s the only one available. And apparently a, uh, a stray old dock piling is stuck on a buoy and they need to get it out before the fishermen come back in or go back out or something.

I don’t know, there’s a prominent photograph of his dad in the precinct. And, uh, he goes out that, you know, we could have done this for Christmas, just as easily as new year’s there a big Christmas celebration going on a big festival. You know, people choir’s singing skits going on. It’s very festive. He goes out on the boat and he’s trying to dislodge this log from this buoy.

And I have in my notes, the shark jumps out of The Bahamas and by this horrible, okay.

Uh, they use so much footage in this movie, like the same shots of the shark jumping out of the water over and over again. And seriously, when this shark you don’t even see him and the shark in the same frame, the shark shark just jumps out of the crystal clear day. Lit blue water. 

Todd: Hilariously bad. Yeah. I mean, it’s stuff like this that gets you the worst movie of all time thing.

Like, come on guys, get us some continuity here. You had a shark. You could control wait till nighttime and do it again and just get a shot of that. And 

Craig: I’m sure that they didn’t even have the animatronic in that location was probably part of it. You know, they only had it in Hawaii. That’s where they shot at whatever, but it jumps out of the water.

It bites his arm off. He, he leans over the side to call for help where he’s attacked again. And it’s pretty brutal. You know, he’s floating like holding onto a log screaming for help, but this festival is going on. So nobody hears him. And, uh, he, uh, eventually is pulled underwater and doesn’t come back up.

And the next morning his mom has to ID his body, which, uh, is sad. Uh, this is the first death in the movie. That happens within the first five to 10 minutes. And then there’s only one more death in the whole movie and it doesn’t happen for another hour. 

Todd: At least that’s one of the big flaws. I think I, you know, I, I mean, there’s some close calls and whatnot, but no, the biggest.

Is that his death immediately starts upsetting Ellen, his mom, because, well, obviously it’s upsetting to her, but her main contention is it 

Craig: came to him.

It’s waited all this time and it came to 

Todd: him. Ah, so the whole point, and as you said earlier, the conceit of the movie is that this shark has come for them. It can hunt them down no matter where they are. And they never stray too far from the water. No matter how upset she is about the water, especially now that her son is 

Craig: dead well, it now is like a, a Marine biologist researcher.

Yeah. Like he’s, uh, working towards his PhD and he’s living in The Bahamas and doing these, not experiments, but he’s like tracking, uh, sea snails, con conch, whatever they’re called. 

Todd: And Michael is played by Lance guest who you don’t see much of him anymore. I, I think, I don’t think you see much of him anymore.

He’s still working. He’s still working constantly, but he doesn’t look the same. He was just know a beautiful pretty boy. And I remember when. 

Craig: So handsome. What do you remember him from the last star fighter? Yeah, God, I remember that too. It’s funny because I, he so handsome in this movie and, um, I clicked on his IMDV page and I’m not going to say anything mean because we’re 

Todd: all older hits us all.

We’re 

Craig: all older. So, you know, he looks appropriately his age and you, and I know very well what happens to men as we get older and it happened to him too, but I saw his picture. I was like, oh my God, he was so cute. 

Todd: All that’s left are the eyes now, 

Craig: whatever, I’m sure he’s a lovely person. 

Todd: I’m sure he’s 

Craig: doing well.

But they, they come for the, his whole family. He has a wife named Carla played by Karen Young, who I recognized very much, but really just from this movie. But I like her she’s spunky. She’s real. They have this great relationship where I feel like a real couple. They love each other very much and they’re hot for each other, but they fight and stuff.

Like I just, I really like. They’re great. And they’ve got this little girl at the 

Todd: end. I mean, kind of like you said, all the people in this movie feel real, and then this is distract of the script. I think that, I think this was the appealing thing of the script that everybody liked and that Sid Sheinberg was really pushing for and, you know, make these people real, make us care about these folks before bad things start happening.

Craig: And, and because they’re, I mean, they’re real and because they’re real, they’re flawed. And because they’re flawed, I think that they’re relatable and you can get on board with them. There’s I don’t know, 10 minutes that they spend on the funeral. And like people gathering people from the original movie, the woman who played Mrs.

Kentner leafy arrow. She was the mother of the first boy who was attacked in the first movie she’s there sitting with with Ellen and. Some of her friends, Ellen, uh, kind of breaks down and yells at Michael that she wants him to quit his job. She wants him to get out of the water. She doesn’t want anybody in her family anywhere near the water.

She says, cause the, you know, the shark waited it. She says it killed your father. And he says, dad had a heart attack. And she said, well, it was the fear. It was the fear of it that killed it. 

Todd: That’s pretty dumb though. You gotta admit. That’s pretty 

Craig: silly. It’s funny though. And he says, mom, you can’t believe that voodoo sharks don’t have vendettas against people.

And I had never noticed that line before, but it’s ironic because originally in the script and in the novelization of the movie, this is. In fact, a voodoo shark 

Todd: controlled by a witch doctor 

Craig: controlled 

Todd: by a which doc, but kind of going off of what I, what I contended earlier. It makes a little more sense that, that this, this shark is actually magical than this shark has the brains and the capacity to track somebody from the water all the way down to the bombers, wherever they are.

Buddha makes more sense. 

Craig: It does. I have not read the novelization, but I’m actually kind of curious, right? Because I guess in the novelization, Michael, somehow pisses off a witch doctor in The Bahamas and the witch doctor summons the shark to attack his family. And I guess that some of the book is told from the perspective of the shark, which I have read Joel.

Which was a novel first and most, if not, all of it is from the perspective of the shark, but in this novelization, some of it’s from the perspective of the shark and the shark doesn’t even understand why it’s doing what it’s doing. Like it’s just controlled 

Todd: by the witchdoctor. Oh my God. I’m getting these strange feelings.

Craig: Uh, Michael assures her. He’s like, look, we’re in The Bahamas. There is never been a great white where we live. It’s warm water. They don’t like it. They decide to go back to the island and she, she agrees to go with them. 

Todd: Yeah. They end up flying to The Bahamas. Now, is this the point at which Mario van Peebles pops in here?

Cause I was really surprised to see him and I hadn’t seen this before. You hadn’t seen this, believe it or not. No, I’d never ever seen this before, 

Craig: actually before Mario van people shows up, uh, Michael Kane shows up he’s the pilot of the plane and Michael Caine is a great actor, very famous Oscar winning actor.

But apparently I knew this about this movie, but I didn’t know it was a thing like apparently every once in a while he just does a movie for the money. He knows they’re not great movies, but they’re going to pay him a lot of money and he does it. And that, that was this movie. And apparently, I guess he agreed to do the movie after reading the first line of the script, which was like, Fade in Hawaii.

And he had wanted to film a movie in Hawaii for a while. So he was like, all right, no. 

Todd: Well, he ended up, I mean, the movie filmed in like seven days down there, uh, and the schedule was really tight and it overlapped with the academy awards and he was nominated and won. It turns out for Hannah and her sisters.

Yeah. An academy award during this time. And he really wanted to get out of the filming so that he could actually attend the award ceremony and it was just wasn’t working out. So he wasn’t able to collect his academy award because he was down filming this movie. You’d think that would piss a guy off a little bit.

But I think the quote from him later was something like, uh, I got an Oscar, I got a new house and I got a nice little vacation. So to me that’s all basically a win. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And being asked specifically about. The movie, I’m not reading it. So forgive me if I misquote, but he said something like, well, I’ve never seen it by all accounts.

It’s horrible, but I have seen the house that it paid for. And it’s fantastic.

That sounds like a guy that I would want to be friends with, you know? And what I, you know, I made, he made a bunch of money. He made a million plus dollars to shoot for seven days in a tropical paradise. My God win-win right. They never even watched the movie. So you know, who can, 

Todd: and you need to learn things like this, about your famous actor, friends, you know what I mean?

Everybody holds Michael Kane up in highest esteem. You know, it was like, you know, this like really come on. This guy did blame it on Rio. He did a lot of schlock as well. And then you hear him talk about it. Like, dude, I’m just, I need a paycheck as much as

it’s, it’s great. It’s grounding. It’s as grounding as his character is in this film. And 

Craig: he’s funny and he’s good. He’s, he’s a nice light element in this movie. And he establishes a relationship with Ellen that is sweet. You know, they’re older and they’re not ancient, but they’re, they’re older people, but they spark this flirty.

Cute romantic relationship and it’s believable. And I was rooting for them. So cute because Michael. Sees this relationship budding. And he’s concerned about it because he doesn’t know who hoagie is. He knows he he’s a big gambler. He flies a charter plane and Michael like, seems like suspicious about this.

It’s not brought up in the movie. Apparently they did film the scenes hoagie in fact, is a drug smuggler. Like I don’t think that he himself, but he’s well, he’s a. Uh, a mule 

Todd: or there’s like a throwaway line in the movie that that’s that’s I can’t remember where it was or exactly who said it. I don’t think it was him himself, but somebody brings up something in the, in the middle of their, like, what do you fly anyway?

And he gives some kind of coy remark that laundry. Yeah. Laundry. Yeah. I deliver a laundry. Okay. We get it. 

Craig: It’s hinted at, but you know, again, well, the guy just needs, he’s just making it, just it a paycheck, 

Todd: just like the actor behind him and, and, you know, I think you said, this is just a sweet, cute, and utterly natural, older couple relationship.

It’s not over the top dramatic and romantic. It’s like, Hey, these two people enjoy each other. And, and I think this is something actually that I read attracted both him and, um, Ellen Brody’s character back to the table. They liked the idea that you don’t often see an older couple romance in a movie. It’s always young people get together.

And this was nice. This was another nice 

Craig: touch. Yeah, I thought so too. I really like that element of it. Ellen is still nervous about the water. She kind of freaks out when they get back to Michael and Carla’s house and Thea’s like swinging from a dock and she kind of freaks out or whatever. I should also mention.

Carla, apparently is an artist. She is in making a C she’s been commissioned to make a sculpture for the island, and it’s called tourists on the losers. And it’s very reminiscent of a sharp 

Todd: attacking a person. Like what the 

Craig: hell looks like. Yeah. I mean, it’s abstract that it’s very reminiscent of 

Todd: Azure.

Are you trying to rub this family’s tragedy in its nose even more? And we got to mention Mario van Peebles character, Jake, who is also, he’s doing the research with Michael. And as soon as he comes on, I’m hearing is Jamaican accent. And I’m like, oh God, that it’s an awful Jamaican accent. And then like about two or three shots later.

Okay. That’s settled into something, not so terrible. And then like two or three shots later, it completely disappears.

Craig: Jake. The, my chops. I remember what they look like, the hot on the outside chewy on the inside. Sometimes they come with a little grant attached to them, move tag it a downtown, not a separate the lace and the gentlemen. Oh man. No, do that can move too slow. You got to speed. Flow is slower and you’re moving it down slow.

You’re going to go wrong. 

Todd: Like there is a very inconsistent, uh, sometimes over the top Jamaican accent coming out of this man’s mouth. 

Craig: Yeah, it is. I mean, he’s a likable guy too, but again, Michael and Jake, his name is Jake. They’re PhD students. They’re working together, they’re partners, but they’re obviously very good friends and you know, their, their wives are friends.

Like, you know, they’re, they’re good friends, but. Just like Michael and Carla, Michael and Jake have a very real relationship. They get on each other’s nerves and bicker sometimes, but ultimately they always, they have each other’s backs. They care about each other. They’re invested in one another and just, just real characters.

And Mario van Peebles looks great in this movie to a very handsome, they have Christmas Jake and his wife Louisa who’s gorgeous. Um, come over for Christmas. And this is when we get the first full shot of the shark and it’s swimming around. Um, in these Baja Manian waters. And so it’s very bright and very blue, but I also got the sense that the ocean and The Bahamas is never more than like seven or eight feet.

If that, regardless of how far out into the sea you go, you could basically see the swim to the bottom and touch it and come back out. No walk along there. 

Todd: Yeah. It, even when Michael Kane comes up, uh, paddling in a boat onto the shore, I’m thinking, God, how does that boat keep moving? It’s clearly scraping the sand 

Craig: and that, that happens here.

But Ellen is making a sandcastle with FIA on the beach. When all of a sudden she gets a strange feeling and looks. Over the sea. And I don’t think I’d ever noticed this before, but you hear the roar of the shark as she hears it too. Like, like the shark is a net. Like I am here shark, 

Todd: literally roars it’s.

Uh, it’s interesting. I 

Craig: don’t think it’s, I, you know, people make fun of that and at the end it’s even more obvious, but paying attention this time, I was like, holy shit. That shark just roared, like that’s crazy. I 

Todd: mean, I did get a little tired of her little premonitions. It was just constant. There was something here’s an issue I have with the movie.

We’re not quite there yet, but I’m just going to foreshadow it. I’m just going to talk about it right now is that this film spends a ton of time setting us up for her conflict with just the whole idea that they’re even by the water. Now, she doesn’t want her son working in the water. She wants them to change jobs.

They have arguments over it. She, every time she gets steps in the water, she’s getting premonitions and she’s, can’t sleep at night, all this stuff having nightmares. Yeah. And as soon as this relationship with, um, with hoagie, BA blossoms, it’s like next scene she’s explaining to her son, you know what, actually, I’m cool.

I’m totally fine. Um, I’ve gotten over 

Craig: it. Not fair. She it’s bothering her. and he takes, he takes her to like, it’s an actual, uh, festival. I can’t remember what the name of it is, but it’s like carny vol, you know, it’s like a parade, lots of dancing celebration. And she, you know, she tells him, like, I know it’s coming, it’s coming to get us.

And he tells her, yeah. Have to come and tell him I even got nothing to do with it. I drank with an umbrella in it, give it up, give it a kick in the ups, get on me 

Todd: alone. And that’s it. That’s all it takes. I mean, that’s true. That’s 

Craig: come on. Meanwhile, at the exact same moment, Jake is down in the sub, you know, checking on the snails or whatever and, and the shark.

Bumps right up against this little. And when I say submarine, I mean like a one-person submerse, 

Todd: like it’s a tiny little thing, not even water tight, it’s just something to tootle around in while you’re 

Craig: right. It bumps right up against him, but it doesn’t bother him at all. And then it jumps up and attacks the boat where Michael is standing.

So Michael knows that there knows it’s there. Jake is super excited. Cause he’s like, now we don’t have to study these stupid snails anymore. There’s a great week in The Bahamas. It shouldn’t be here. We won’t tell anybody we’ll study it. We’ll, you know, watch its patterns, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And, and, uh, he’s all excited, but of course Michael’s like, uh, maybe you don’t say anything to my mom.

He was like, oh yeah. Okay. Sorry. But you’re right then, uh, it’s new years happy new year, 

Todd: everybody. Yeah.

Craig: Oh God, may it please be better than the last couple of years. But they, there, there’s a big new year’s Eve party and everybody’s dressed up and it’s at a casino and it’s Jake and his wife are there. And, um, Michael and Carla are there 

Todd: and Ellen are out dancing 

Craig: Helge and Ellen, like, it seems pretty established.

It’s not like it’s just very natural of like, they’re like, oh, we’re married now, but they’re hanging out. They’re having a good time. Cool. And, uh, there’s, you know, a sweet moment where hoagie asks, uh, Ellen to dance and they dance for a few seconds, but then Michael goes and cuts in and Ellen tells him that she has decided.

To stop believing that Shawn’s death was intentional and she really seems better, which is great for her. But Michael is conflicted because he knows that the shark is there and it has no business being there. And so now he’s 

Todd: questioning, was she right? It’s a total flip and to its credit, that’s a cool aspect of the movie.

It really, you do see Michael’s conflict. Like he’s holding the secret. Um, and he’s even had some, you know, ends up having a couple encounters with the shark that he has to hide from her. And it’s, it’s obviously weighing on. And in fact, I think it’s at this party that, um, Jake almost spills the beans about it.

Yeah. 

Craig: But, uh, Kim’s really close. Um, but he doesn’t, it ultimately, it probably would have been better if he did, but Jake convinces Michael to take a break from the snails for just a few days to study the shark. And so they chum around the boat. The shark shows up and surfaces 

Todd: leaps out of the water as it always 

Craig: leaps out of the water.

It keeps doing this over and over again. It looks terrible. It doesn’t look natural at all. Um, But Jake has made like this electronic pulse. Oh no. That’s later. What he’s got right now is a tracker that also doesn’t, it’s some rackets locations heartbeat. It monitors its heartbeat, but when it’s within range, they can hear its heart beating.

If it’s out of range, they can’t anyway. So they know that they know when it’s closed. You know, I actually 

Todd: liked this bit of the movie. I thought it was very clever how they had this thing. You know, it’s sort of like in aliens when they’re tracking the alien through the ship and they have that little device.

Right. And it pulses, and it sounds almost like a heartbeat, but as the alien gets closer, that gets faster and faster and faster. Well, it’s not like that with the shark, it just gets louder and more obvious when it gets closer, but it’s there and it’s just, it’s very reminiscent right. Of the whole jaws theme.

It’s not a done, not done. There’s nothing musical about it. Right. What made that original musical cue so effective in the first movie and building that tension, they’ve just replaced that it’s the same idea, but they’ve made it, this, this sort of sonar heartbeat kind of thing that I think the sound design is great.

And it’s really a fact of it letting you know, the shark is close and building tension. It’s it’s 

Craig: nice. And I wanted to say, you know, after that, the very opening scene samples, the original theme, um, and, and to good effect. But after that, the. Unique or original. And I really like it. I really like the score it’s it was reminiscent to me of, um, the Goonies a little bit, um, troll a little bit, anytime you’re overlooking the water, it’s kind of just this twinkly kind of music and it’s.

I don’t know. I really liked the score. There are a lot of things about this movie that I like, but eventually there are acute moments. Like there’s a moment where a hoagie invites Ellen to stay on the island for a little extra while. And he says, you know, and we can hop on over to this other island for a few days or late.

He’s basically asking her to go away with him for a few days and she’s considering it. And it’s cute. She’s like a school girl. She’s like talking about it with Carla. She’s like it, he can’t see, and I didn’t know what to do. It’s it’s really cute. And Elaine, Gary is that Lorraine Gary plays it really well.

She’s sweet. There’s another sweet moment where, um, Thea and Michael share a moment that. Recreates a moment from the first movie where little teeny Sean. I was sitting next to his dad at the dinner table and, and mimicking everything that his dad was doing. The same thing happens here and Ellen sees it.

And so, you know, you’re flashing back and forth between what’s going on in real time and the flashback, and, but eventually. Michael gets attacked by the shark. Uh, he’s down in the sub and they’re listening for it on the thing. And they’re like, oh yeah, this has got a three mile radius. If we hear it, you’ll have plenty of time to get up.

Well, then right away they hear it. And uh, Jake’s like, uh, it’s coming fast, get up, but he doesn’t get up there in time. And the shark attacks the sub and he has to get out. And he, he swims to a wreck shipwreck 

Todd: under convenient. Yeah. Under, yeah, like seven feet of water. And the shark gets in there. It follows 

Craig: him through, oh, wreck, like so bad.

It doesn’t even fit in there really. And we know in real life that sharks can’t swim backwards. So that shark probably would’ve just been stuck in there and drown. It almost gets him, but he uses his. Air tank to propel himself to the top and low luckily surfaces right next to the boat. So 

Todd: good thing. I mean, by the way, as a diver myself, I’ll tell you that he’s going to have even bigger problems surfacing that fast.

It’s only seven feet tall.

Okay. Fair enough. Yeah, he’s not, I 

Craig: don’t think he’s going to get a Benz from 

Todd: seven feet. Well, you’d be surprised, but you’re right. It’s supposed to be more than seven feet, but yeah, it’s clearly not. 

Craig: And still Michael doesn’t tell anybody, like, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s out of loyalty to Jake or if, uh, he doesn’t want to scare them, but he shouldn’t scare them.

You know, that shark is clearly out to get them. Um, but the very next day he wants to go back down. Cause he’s like, you know, if you fall off the horse, you got to get right back on and he tells Jake, look, I’m scared to death. And if I don’t go back down there, um, I may never get back in the water again.

And so he goes down and there’s an ELL scare, which was kind of funny. But then we cut to Carla’s unveiling of her sculpture. And this is the best scene of the moon. I would say, this is one of the best attack scenes of the series. They’re on a very crowded beach for this, uh, dedication of her statue. And Thea sees that her friend.

Are going to ride on a banana boat, which is just this, you know, literally a big inflatable banana polled by a boat I’ve written one of these. They’re great.

Todd: It’s sort of like inner tubing, right? Except on a long banana shaped thing. Yeah. Oh, 

Craig: they’re and they’re, they’re, you know, they’re really big, you know, these are little kids writing it. They’re in life jackets, totally safe. And so she asks her mom, she can go and she’s like, know Margaret’s going and she’s with her mom.

And Carla’s like, okay, fine. And, um, Ellen seems a little bit nervous, but remember she’s decided she’s not going to be scared anymore. So Carla reassures her and she’s basically okay. But Thea gets on the boat and Ellen gets her psychic feelings. And she looks out and she sees the shark fin chasing behind the banana boat.

And so she screams and everybody looks out and everybody sees it. And everybody’s running down to the water, this shark attacks, the inflated 

Todd: banana targets, her specifically, it 

Craig: targets her specifically, 

Todd: right. And this whole beach full of people right 

Craig: there, her, her friend’s mother who, you know, must’ve been just a wonderful woman, picks the up and moves her, like, like pushes her forward on the boat.

And then she gets. Um, and everybody is on the beach, watching and screaming as this woman is riding around in the sharks mouth above water. And that’s it. That’s the second death, but this marks the beginning of the third act because Ellen sees this and she gets the serious look on her face and she turns around and she starts running.

She runs. And I guess that Jake and Michael have come back because she takes their boat and Michael eventually finds, they don’t even know what’s happened. Michael comes in to find Carla consoling, Thea, who’s in shock. And he’s like, oh my God, I’m so sorry. I should’ve told you. And Carlos furious. That he knew that there was a shark there.

And didn’t tell that he runs away and realizes that his mom must have taken the boat. So he grabs Jake and they’re going to take out like a little fishing boat to look for her, but they come across hoagie and hoagies, like that’s stupid. You’ll never find her. So he takes them out in the plane. And the plan is, we’ll find her, we’ll see where she is.

We’ll call for the rescue boats and they’ll go out and get. But when they do find her shocker is maybe 50 yards. Behind her trade 

Todd: knows what boat she’s on. She’s out there. And she’s what is she planning on doing? I just don’t understand. No, but she does stand, I think, on the boat and go, come and get me you son of a bitch.

Yeah. 

Craig: And then the shark is coming and she’s just standing there. So hoagie. So hoagie 

Todd: rashes his plane into the water. Well, first, 

Craig: first he buzzes the shark. Like, as it’s jumping out to attacker, he like buzzes it and it goes back in the water and then he swings back around and he does lands his plane. I know.

And he’s like, hold on guys. And Jake’s like, do you know how to land? Do you know how to land this in the water? And he’s like, no, what kind of pilot do you 

Todd: fuck?

Craig: But he does. He lands this. Water plane on the water and Jake and, uh, Michael dive off and swim to the boat. And they’re fine. 

Todd: Everybody’s in the freaking water when the shark is right there, apparently targeting them. Yeah. It’s a really stupid 

Craig: idea. Except for Michael Kane, he stands in the door of the plane and is cracking wise.

He does throughout the whole movie and the shark attacks the plane and presumably gets him. But doesn’t because, you know, after, uh, Ellen has a minute to like mourn him, he shows up crawling onto the boat and he’s fine. And this leads up to the very end where first of all, Jake real quick puts together this other device that sends out like an electric impulse.

I don’t know if it’s a shock or what it’s meant to be, but he thinks that if he can get it inside the shark and they can trigger it, it’ll drive this. Crazy and it’ll die or something. I don’t know. And so, uh, he does, he gets on the mask. Is it the mask? I don’t know the part that sticks out the front of the ship and the shark jumps out and he does like spirit into the shark’s mouth, but then.

He gingerly lowers himself into the shark’s mouth. I 

Todd: know,

I, at first I thought it was like slow motion or something, but no, he just looked worse himself. It’s it’s bad. Like he doesn’t even slip or anything. He just, no. 

Craig: And, and then, and you see, okay, so then he’s in the shark’s mouth, he’s all bloody. And he like, he’s beating the shark and you see him take, you, see it, take him down, crashing him around 

Todd: way.

Right. There’s 

Craig: no way. Oh, it’s, it’s crazy. And then, so the mom is driving the boat and they see where the shark is and she turns the boat right towards it. Michael has this triggering device and he’s, he’s pushing it. And every time he pushes it, there’s like an electric, like. And, uh, the sharks screams literally and jumps out of the water and it becomes evident that she is headed straight for it.

And so right, as she’s getting close to it and it’s jumping out of the water, she has flashbacks. To the death of all of the members of her family that she did not ask. 

Todd: That’s my notes. Grandma’s having visions of stuff. She never saw.

Craig: Arguably she saw, you know, Thea be attacked, but not from that perspective. And, and she did not see Sean or Martineau getting attacked, but she has flashbacks to it. None of, or the movie 

Todd: versions 

Craig: it to be fair, to be fair. It is fun to see the flashback department one with, with Martin Brody on what is it, the proud that’s what it is right on the prowl of the ship, holding the gun.

And, you know, Ellen is pointing the, the front of the. Both at the shark. And just as the shark rears out of the water and you see that the front of the boat is going to impale it. Um, in the flashback, you see Martin say smile, you son of a bitch, which is one of the greatest lines in cinematic history. And he fires the gun in the flashback.

I saw this movie in the theater. So let me tell you about my ex. When I saw this movie in the theater, what happened was the stick, the big post that sticks out of the front of the boat. Impales the shark and it screams and blood flies, everybody everywhere. And you see it in and you see blood flowing out of its mouth and the weight of the shark breaks off the entire front part of the ship.

And everybody on the ship falls down to the ground. And then you see the shark bleeding profusely sinking with the whole front of the boat down to the bottom. And that’s basically the end. There is a scene after that, where you see Ellen flyaway. That’s it. Now I remember seeing this on television years later and the ending was totally different and I was like, what the fuck?

Like, this is not how the movie is. And it turns out that what I saw in the theater. Was the theatrical release after the, it had already been released into theaters in the United States, I guess it didn’t the ending wasn’t received well. So while the film was running in the United States, they went back and did reshoots.

They reshot the end and when they released it in Europe, they released it with the new ending and then every DVD release home video, every home video release since then has used the European release apparently for a little while on AMC the cable now. They were still occasionally showing the American one, but nobody does anymore.

And the, the new ending doesn’t make 

Todd: any God, I, this is what I saw. So this is my first time seeing it. She pokes it with the sticky thing and the shark explodes. I was like, oh, did I miss something somewhere in here? Was there an explosive involved in any of this? It explodes quite violently. And uh, everybody kind of leaps off the boat and who just sort of surfaces up in the water.

Who’s just sort of bleeding a little bit from his shoulder. It’s like, are you kidding me? This guy was halfway in that thing’s mouth thrashing around just as bad as the girl earlier who died. Um, there’s no way. There’s no way. Where did he come from? 

Craig: No, it doesn’t make, it doesn’t make any sense. And I feel like with that new ending with them all popping back up in the water, they were trying to do a throwback to part one where Richard Dreyfus and the main guy Martin, you know, are left swimming in the water.

I think it was kind of a callback to that, but the exploding shark makes no sense and they just reuse the footage from part one with this shark sinking. I just don’t get it. I much prefer the original ending. Did you watch it on YouTube? You can watch it. 

Todd: I forgot. I forgot to look it up, but it just hearing you describe it.

It makes 10 times more sense than what they ended up. 

Craig: It makes a lot more sense and you can watch it on YouTube apparently. I know that AMC does this because I’ve seen it with other movies, they will, they will take movies and they will air versions of them with additional footage that never played in theaters or in any, uh, video cut.

And they’ve done that with this movie, so you can go online and you can watch the original ending and you can watch like almost 15 minutes of cut footage. Um, it’s nothing exciting. It’s not even particularly interesting, but if you’re interested in this movie, if this is a movie that you enjoyed and you’re curious, um, it’s there.

I watched them, you know, it’s 15 minutes. I had 15 minutes, no big deal. And like I said, then there’s a last, you know, two minute scene where you see Ellen’s going home and everybody’s happy. Everybody says goodbye. And, um, and they, they fly away and hoagies telling one of those goofy stories. The end, I will say again.

And without embarrassment that I still like this movie, I enjoyed watching it. It was a, you know, it’s an hour and a half. We have seen movies that have been so much worse. This is not, it’s not like it’s not even like so bad. It’s good. It’s just like, it’s fine. I think that it’s a perfectly appropriate sequel is.

In quality as good as part one. No. Are sequels ever as good as the first one? Very, very rarely, very rarely. And I would say that this, I like this. I like it better than part two. And I would say in terms, even though they’re very different tonally in terms of entertainment value, I would say w say it’s on par with part three.

It’s not as exciting, but it makes up for. With characterization and relationships and, and that kind of stuff. I just think it’s a perfectly fine movie. I don’t understand why it’s so much, it’s not great, but it’s not that bad. 

Todd: I mean, yeah. I mean, going back and looking at it, knowing that it’s really old and we’re just talking about the fourth and final sequel and over history of jaws films.

One thing if I had paid to go to the movie theater, when this came out in 1987, like you did, but you were younger. If I had paid to go to the movie theater to see this, when it came out. I would have been disappointed. It was kind of boring if it hadn’t been titled jaws, you know, I don’t know, man, just like when, when there hardly any shark attacks, eh, w one person dies, uh, maybe two, depending on the ending you’ve seen and the shark doesn’t really, there’s no real showdown with the shark until three quarters of the way through the movie.

How much family drama did you, did you pay to come to the theater to see, you know what I mean? So I can understand that. Plus it’s true. Some of the dialogue is pretty ridiculous. The whole COVID. It is preposterous, which apparently they all knew going into production. The director, the director admitted it.

He said we were all just sort of burned out creatively, going through so many pitches that we figured. Well, we could probably, we knew it was stupid, but maybe we could make it work on screen. So there’s that, there’s again, silliness. We talked about with the production where like some of the shots don’t match up.

The shark looks goofy, this true used footage and everything looks like it’s about seven feet under water. Cause it is all of that kind of combined. It’s not a good movie. It’s not like the epitome of craftsmanship that you would expect with from the most expensive movie to be one of the most expensive movies to be released in 1987 with a ton of hype on behind it and on a built on a franchise that has.

Respect and I mean, the third one may be, but you know, still like it’s jaws, it’s supposed to be jaws, the revenge and you get kind of a lot of silliness that you’re being expected to take seriously. So, 

Craig: and family drama that’s fair. It is a lot of family drama. I don’t know. I kind of felt like that was intentional and so really 

Todd: good family drama, you know, it’s just, it’s 

Craig: a jaws.

It is. I think the only reason that I’m so defensive of it is just because it’s so. Widely and adamantly criticized. And it’s fair to say, it’s not a good movie. It’s fair to say. It’s not a great movie, but to say that it’s the worst movie ever. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It is 

Todd: not that even in 1987. No, for 

Craig: sure.

Anyway, there’s a new year’s Eve party.

Happy new year, everybody. Yeah. And I just want to say, uh, you know, gosh, another year comes and goes, uh it’s. It’s crazy. It seems honestly, it seems like we were just. Doing this wishing you a happy new year, time goes by so quickly. And, uh, I’ll probably repeat myself, but just once again, another year down, thank you for sticking with us through all of this.

I know that some of you have been with us for years. Some of you, you know, are only recently discovering us and we welcome you with open arms and are glad to have you to have as much support and to get as much engagement as we get from you. All, this was a request. We get requests regularly. We try to fulfill as many of those as we can.

It’s really fulfilling. And, uh, it’s, it’s a bright spot in what has been a really tough couple of years and hopefully. This new year will bring some relief, but one way or another we’re in it together. And we’re here for ya. And we’ll be, we’ll be bringing you occur. Happy mood.

Todd: nothing yet.

Uh, well, uh, we got to thank Chris again for the request, and that was great to be able to review this movie and thank you all to your listeners. I’ll just echo exactly what Craig said. Find us online, share us with a friend sometime this year would be great for us. We love to get more listeners and to spread the love a little bit, like Craig said, let us know what you think of this film and give us requests for the times coming up.

Haven’t done a theme month in a while, unless. Our Christmas month is at the month. So it’s probably what, what could be coming at you next? Uh, early in the year until next time, I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig 

Todd: with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. .

After last week’s disturbing holiday nightmare, we had to close off the Christmas season this year with a good ol’ fashioned killer Santa slasher. We can’t say it’s the BEST Christmas horror movie out there, but it certainly is trying. Merry Christmas, everyone!

All Through The House (2015)

Episode 282, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And Merry Christmas, everybody Merry Christmas. Welcome to the end. Finally, of our Christmas season for Christmas horror movies for you. 2021 as we go into 2022 almost here, because we did such a, oh, such a downer movie last week, I told Craig, we need to, we need to have just a goofball slasher this time around.

And I don’t think I could have picked much better, a much sillier than All Through The House from 2015 by writer, director, Todd Nunes happens to be one of the very few things. Writer, director, Todd Nunes has done as well as much of the cast and crew. This movie, it premiered at a film festival and went straight to streaming and video on demand.

So you can actually see it online. On an IMD BTV Tubi TV, Amazon prime, all with commercials. I thought that was interesting. I could not see it commercial free in any of those places, but yeah. So here we are all through the house. I had never heard of this movie. I just found it when we were searching for Christmas horror movies, it was on our list.

It had a killer Santa theme. And so I suggested it for Craig and me to do this time. Greg, how about you? What’s do you have any history with this movie? Is this one that you’ve had playing in the background while you’re grading papers by, 

Craig: but it could have been, this is the kind of movie that I put on in the background 

Todd: when I’m grading.

So this is a little more familiar territory for you than it is for me to be quite honest. 

Craig: It is like I watch a lot, you know, I, I know that you and I. Both big fans, but the truth of the matter is you’re busier than me. , 

Todd: you’re busy too. You’re just doing a lot of sitting down grading papers. So you have, you know, something on while you’re worrying.

Okay. 

Craig: That’s, that’s true. But to be fair, I think that you are just a person who is happier when you are active and doing things. And I am more of a home body and a. Yes. I, I, I don’t just sit around and watch movies all day. Um, but I do, but I do when I’m grading, which I teach a college writing class. So that’s lots of hours of grading.

And even though I know that putting these movies on in the background slows me down, when I’m grading, it also motivates me to keep doing it. Like it gives me, it motivates me to keep doing it. So ultimately it works out and I intentionally usually pick movies that I think aren’t going to be very good because if I get too invested in them, then I’m not paying attention to my work and I don’t get through my work.

And I would say that this movie falls into that category. I I’m glad that you picked it. Um, because I do think that we needed something light and I know that you really like looked hard for something that we hadn’t seen before and that looked, you know, more light and more light and fun than what we usually do.

And this movie has some, some things going for it. I think that what, uh, all what I’ll say out right, is that while the movie does have some things going for it, it’s not terribly made the thing. Took me out of it a little bit is the acting, the acting is pretty darn bad. 

Todd: Acting is pretty bad. And, um, I would also add to that, although it has its moments and you can tell they’re trying this, the, you know, God bless Todd Nunes.

You know, there’s something about it that feels a bit amateurish. It’s somewhere in that nebulous net nether region of, you know, not, not super professional, but not super amateur. Right. It’s like, In the middle where there’s, you know, inspired shots, things are pretty well set up and stuff, but you know, there’s like a part in here where there’s a tracking shot, where a guy’s in front of the computer.

It’s like a classic camera move. There’s a dude, you know, behind a computer, typing away, looking at it. And to keep that scene interesting. The camera slowly kind of dollies, just, just gradually, you know, left to right. More or less just drifts by, he, it adds a little bit of movement to an otherwise static scene.

Well, I mean, here, the camera’s kind of like, kind of hesitatingly moves across. Like sometimes it’s smooth. Sometimes it stops sometimes when it cuts back, it’s dollying the other way. And the whole time, there’s like a little lava lamp on the table. That’s kind of wobbling, you know, and the lighting. The lighting and some times is really quite good, but most of the other time you can tell this just like shine, a bright light on them, you know?

Craig: Yeah. I would say, I would say that it feels a little cheap and probably is, you know, I imagine this was shot on a very low budget and to its credit, you kind of offhandedly said this, but I did get the feeling that they were really trying. I mean, the movie was shot in seven days. The, the director did much of the set dressing himself and, and.

Barfed all over with Christmas 

Todd: like that. It’s got that going for it, but I love these, these homes are decorated by Christmas, in like the most lazy Christmas decorations you can imagine. It’s just garish, let’s throw lights over everything like lights on the floor, lights piled up on the desks that moving up the wall like wrapped around like random stuff.

There’s even like a point in the bathroom where there are candles on the toilet lid for summaries. Did they use that toilet? Do they lift those lit candles off and put them back when they’re done? You know, it just, it’s pretty silly. 

Craig: Well, it is, but, but it, but it is atmospheric. Um, and, and in a good way, I mean, the, the main set piece is this house of this woman who like.

Crazy above and beyond to decorate both the exterior and the interior of our house. And not only is it Christmas Eve, but it’s like creepy Christmas, like tons of like creepy mannequins, all dressed up and like these, um, Santas, uh, with like grotesque and odd get ups and, and faces. And it’s everywhere.

Like the camera can’t point in a direction where there’s. Something, um, 

Todd: where you not getting tourist trap vibes a little, yes, absolutely. 

Craig: A hundred percent. A hundred percent, but I give it credit for that. I do think that there was care put into it and looking at what this director has done before he’s done primarily shorts and things.

One of them was the inspiration for this feature length film. And it looks to me like he works with the same people regularly, the same actors, 

Todd: his sister, 

Craig: you know, so, okay. I didn’t even notice because I didn’t recognize anybody, so I didn’t look into them. Um, but like the main, the creepy lady whose house, most of it takes place in this role was written specifically for her.

This is one of the only roles that she’s played. And I think that she’s mostly only done stuff with this guy. So like, I imagine that these folks are kind of like. Many people that we have come to admire, um, who started out. Small, but had a passion for it and eventually found their footing. So I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy goes on to bigger and better things.

Now I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if he didn’t either. I do see some potential here. 

Todd: Yeah. Well, it’s been seven years, so, you know, who knows, but I mean, that’s disappointing. The movie got good reviews in the like horror, you know, the horror websites and the horror reviews, you know, in the horse circles, basically.

I’m sure it wasn’t reviewed much outside of that. 

Craig: It won awards on the festival circuit. Oh yeah, for sure. Kind of blows my mind. 

Todd: You got to take all this with a grain of salt right now. You’re more into the horse scene online than I am. And we’ve talked about this before. Right? Horror fans like us. We have a wide tolerance for all kinds of schlock and stuff.

Somehow it’s just part and parcel the territory. We overlook it when other people don’t. But then I read some of these reviews and like there’s, if you go on Wikipedia and you see clips of the reviews, bloodshed states that almost every aspect of the film is superb. Don’t think I would go that far. The shock chamber, praise the film saying if this film was made 30 years ago, it would be mentioned today in the same conversations as black Christmas and silent night, deadly night.

Craig: Mm. Maybe, maybe, but it would be, but it would be different. 

Todd: Yeah. Afraid it would be shot on film. So necessarily wouldn’t look quite as cheap. It would be grittier and probably the acting might be better. I don’t know. Maybe marginally. So actually, I don’t know. 

Craig: There’s just something about that era where it feels almost like its own sub genre.

And like you said, you know, when we look at those movies are expectations shift. We don’t, we don’t expect. Great acting. We don’t expect it to look shiny and, and clean, you know, we expect it to be gritty and we expect it to be kind of bad and kind of schlocky, but through a modern perspective in a modern movie, I just don’t think that it translates quite right.

Todd: You know, in some sense, the slickness, I think that the director is going for in this movie does kind of work against it. Like you can tell the way he’s lighting it and the way he’s setting it up, he’s looking for a very modern, almost 90 scream aesthetic. It’s got these beautiful girls. Every one of them have huge boobs.

They’re back lit gets very, like I said before, it’s darkly lit almost too starkly lit at times, but you know, he does a really nice job with like putting things out of focus, just in the background, kind of making things pop a little bit. It has a lot of the same kind of setups with. I mean, it’s an homage type film, you know, there’s throwbacks.

Uh, you could just say stealing, but I mean, every horror movie kind of steals the same sharps, right? Like with similar shots of where, you know, the killers back there and suddenly he’s not, or suddenly his face appears in the foreground and it’s gone, or he comes in from the shadows behind the character, without us ever seeing it with that, like, you know, uh, a sound cue or anything like that.

It’s, there’s only clot 

Craig: everywhere at once. Oh my God, 

Todd: this guy. Yeah. He can be anywhere and everywhere. He can just show up randomly under a random person’s bed, you know, it’s, it’s really just like that. And so what I’m saying is, in some ways, if the movie were shot a little grittier, if it weren’t as slick and it was a little darker and a little dirty or, and whatnot, Yeah, I, you know, it would probably come off better, honestly, instead of the sort of cheap, ultimately almost, you know, shot on video.

Look that that’s what it has, but, but you know, nowadays shot on video. We don’t really care that much anymore. We’re we’re used to this as well. So it wasn’t terribly distracting to me. I think what, like you said, what was most distracting to me was the acting. And for that reason, I just could never kind of get pulled into the story because it never felt like real to me 

Craig: right now.

I have no idea. How old these main characters are supposed to be. I couldn’t for the life of me, figure out who they were or what their names were for the longest time. It was, it was driving me crazy because I’m looking like I’m, I’m pausing the movie and going to the IMDP DB page and looking at the cast.

And I’m like, is that her? He, like, I couldn’t figure out who was, who, how they were related. I mean, eventually about halfway into the movie, I started to figure it out. But honestly, by that point I had already misnamed them and I had to go back through my notes and like change all the names so that I was talking about the right people.

Todd: Totally misnamed. In fact, I think there might even be a mistake in there somewhere where somebody calls somebody else the wrong name. I really do because. Like at one point, the three girls are standing in the doorway of this neighbor, who they go over to her house and she opens the door and she says, oh, and she kind of rattled them off.

And I swear to you, she said, Sheila, Sarah and 

Craig: Jan. I watched that two second clip, four times trying to listen to what she was saying. And I, I think because the girl’s name ends up being G G, but I heard Sheila too. And apparently there is a Sheila 

Todd: in the movie and she wasn’t who I thought she was actually like, I don’t know.

Craig: Sheila was, I finally figured out who GEA was. Who was JIA? Was she the, I think she was the one without the mole on her lip. I think that I’m not sure. Maybe she was the one that with the mole on her lip. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. 

Todd: But she the one wearing the red dress by the, I 

Craig: think so. And that’s the mole on her lip one, but I, I say that that’s so mean it’s a beauty mark.

She’s very, she’s cute. 

Todd: I, I just, yeah, th that’s that was distracting, not knowing their names for some reason was distracting. And then the other thing about the movie, which I’m sure, you know, we’ll get into the plot, but there’s so much of just random scenes that don’t have anything to do with the main character.

It’s just, we, we, we have another couple who were in a bedroom. One is waiting while the others taking a shower. Like it’s always what is on the bed while the others in the shower. And suddenly they both get murdered. And like 

Craig: every time. I was like, who are you? Because it’s so jarring. Like it we’ll just cut away from our main plot to these other characters that we’ve never met before.

And I’m asking myself like, should I know who this is? No idea. And they were just random kill shots, which is fine, but it was just, it was so abrupt. It was right. It was like other movies that we’ve watched recently where like, They just scripted, kill scenes and shot them. And then, well, we’ll, we’ll put them in somewhere.

Todd: It sort of has this artifact, right. Of Santa’s stocking these people in this house, but every now and then he pops away to take a break and kill somebody up and it doesn’t help it. I feel like it’s the exact same bedroom. Every time that’s just been dressed a little differently, different pillows, a different pair of sheets.

They move the lights around a little bit. And of course there’s a different person in there. I really feel like that’s how it was done. 

Craig: Yeah. And you know, another, another feather in the cap for this movie is that all of these people in these random shots are very sexy people running around in there under things like they’re honestly gorgeous 

Todd: people getting off.

And there’s, uh, there were more moments in this when I thought has a pornographic VR edit of this been made, you know, like every one of those seams see, seems like they’re setting you up for some other kind of movie. It does, but no, there’s just, and that’s another thing too, in this kind of movie, there’s, there’s some very Frank sexual stuff that I wasn’t really expecting.

I was expecting more TNA, to be honest. I mean, there’s, there’s lots of it. There’s lots of it. I guess what I mean is I was expecting to see more of it, bear. I mean, there’s bras and panties and, and there’s just girls low. We’re dealing dresses. There’s I 

Craig: distinctly remember I counted, 

Todd: I counted three bare breasts and one of them, we don’t really one of them we only see with like, you know, a knife through it.

So, 

Craig: and I can’t believe I’m going to say this it’s I was just laughing through. ’cause I thought it was so funny. And then it turns out that it’s an actual plot point. There are lots of prosthetic 

Todd: wieners. There is an actual bag of dicks in this. a bag of dicks. Oh, I just have to think that was the Genesis of this.

Like, somebody would just a bunch of guys sitting around talking and laughing at each other. Somebody says, go eat a bag of dicks. And some guys just sit there in the corner. And he’s at that moment trying to think of the next horror movie is going to do 

Craig: what if Santa sack was just full of dicks

Todd: and here we go, 

Craig: fake dicks and he couldn’t Dickey can find 

Todd: God oddly shaped dicks. Yes. 

Craig: It’s a killer Santa’s movie. It starts out with, uh, kids. Yeah. Three kids, uh, throwing rocks. It’s Christmas decoration. It’s a Christmas decoration of a Santa, but it’s wearing this horrible nightmare math. Like what the hell kind of Christmas decoration is this.

And they throw a rock at it and the mask falls 

Todd: off. I love the dialogue though. They’re like, I don’t even remember throw it, throw it you little shit. The kids, like, what happens if I meet this the window? Just throw it your little.

Craig: Right. And the person speaking these lines is also like eight.

And then we see somebody in bare feet in the snow and what looks like. Like scrubs, um, or something picks up the mask and picks up some gardening shears. And there you have it folks. This is our killer Santa’s where’s this creepy mask. Weapon of choice is the garden sheers though. He uses something else once in a while, but it’s almost always the garden sheers.

And then we’ve got an opening scene where a little kid wakes up in the middle of the night and here’s a knock at the door and he opens the door because Santa is out there. And then the next time we see him he’s asleep on the couch or dead on the couch. The mom thinks he’s asleep. And then she goes to take a shower.

She walks into the bathroom, turns the. Off take a 

Todd: shower. I loved it though. How we had a shower scene within five minutes of the opening of this 

Craig: movie. Oh yeah. Boobs out. Then the dad comes in and scares her and he says, I don’t know, like just horny talk between the two of them and she’s covering her boobs.

And she’s like seeing these until I get to see him. And you know why I like to see him, if he isn’t happy.

Just give him a sec. Why don’t you take him into the bedroom? Come make him happy and I’ll join you in a minute. Okay. I made it when you, I really need to get ready. I really need you for kicks. 

Todd: Ready? Let’s make it very earnestly goes off to get him happy. Very 

Craig: intensely. Pep talk like, come on, buddy. We can do this.

We can do this pay. 

Todd: Right. Come on, come on. Here we go. Here we go. Like God. But then as is pretty typical, the next surprise is actually the killer Santa who Rams one end of the garden, sheers that he picked up straight into this woman’s boob all the way 

Craig: through it. Like from the under boob all the way through 

Todd: to come out the top.

Yeah. And there is blood just gushing out of it, gushing, and then he pulls it out there and then impales her in the eyes with the ends of it. And it is great. 

Craig: It is, it’s really bloody. It’s a bloody movie and all the, the effects are practical and I love practical effects and they did a pretty good job.

It’s not, it’s not like it’s stand out. Like, wow. That’s amazing. But. It’s good. I mean, they, 

Todd: yeah, there was only one point, which I felt like of the prosthetic was obvious. It was kind of shifting around a little bit, but, uh, yeah, other than that, it was perfectly fine, perfectly serviceable. We’ve seen much worse and they, and you know, usually in low budget movies like this, this is where they hold back a little bit.

They just try to squirt some blood around and try to get away with not doing too much makeup, but it’s pretty effective here and very. Face. And I actually found that a little stomach churning at time. So 

Craig: the, and then, um, the Santa’s goes to the dad and the dad turns around thinking it’s the mom and he gets his Wiener cut off.

You see it flop on the floor. I 

Todd: was not expecting that. I was, I was like flop on the floor to see a closeup of it total. 

Craig: Well, I don’t know, maybe not, but like, here’s this guy with his back to the camera, who’s been given his Wiener a pep-talk. So I assume he’s standing there with a boner and then he turns around and St has got Santa shear is like, yeah, he’s going to cut your Dick off.

Todd: I know that was going to happen. I just didn’t expect to see it flopped down on the floor. And, um, you know, this is kind of a pattern for the whole movie is that everybody just seems to be paralyzed with fear. Every time they see the Santa, he’s like six inches away from this guy face to face and just stands there, like.

Oh, oh, he looks down and sees the sheers. Ah, and then the sheer snap and then he’s screaming. I’m like at some point in there, maybe back away, like even just one step back would have helped. 

Craig: Yeah. And then it cuts abruptly to the opening credits where there’s a theme song, um, all through the house. It’s to the tune of up on the house top, I thought it just was up on the house top at first, but the lyrics.

Dirty and yeah, 

Todd: it’s going to my regular rotation from now. Yeah.

Craig: He wants to be

all the kids love his big red sec dance effect.

I thought it set the tone. I’m like, oh, this is going to be, you know, it’s, it’s fun. It’s it’s not taking itself too. Seriously. Our main character, I guess, Rachel, again, I have no idea how old these girls are supposed to be because they look like they’re in their late twenties, but I think maybe they’re supposed to.

Teenagers. Maybe they do not look at all like teenagers, but they act like teenagers. No, they look like porn stars. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, they do. I really thought they might be to be honest because God, almost all of them have boob job. The acting 

Craig: would be on par. I mean, not that I have no. 

Todd: So you’ve heard

that’s another podcast we have, 

Craig: uh, oh man. So this girl Rachel shows up at her grandma’s house and she shows up with a gift for her dead mom, which her grandmother chastises her about. And her grandmother is in a wheelchair, but she’s like, she’s like a frickin sailor. Like every other word out of her mouth is a profanity.

And she’s also like swigging whiskey. She’s funny, such a caricature. It is, but I wished that we had seen more of her. Like I thought she was so funny. I mean, the acting was still terrible, but at least she was hilarious 

Todd: kind of under utilized. It was really nice to see a character in a wheelchair. You know, why don’t we see more of this in movies?

I don’t know. Although perhaps it was a bit of a throwback to Friday the 13th part. I don’t remember whatever when there is a queer 

Craig: one guy in a wheelchair. Yeah. It’s probably a throwback to 

Todd: that who gets, who gets often the same way though. 

Craig: Kinda that’s true. Fair in that way. And then their neighbor is Mrs.

Garrett. She’s the weird eccentric neighbor next door. And I want, they had to have named her that because of the facts of life, like they just had to write, like, where else would you come up with? Mrs. And she’s decorating her house, like I said, and there’s all kinds of like, scary-looking Santa is both inside and out.

Mrs. Garrett has sent Rachel a card and asked her to come help her decorate her house, which is already fully decorated. So I don’t even know what that’s about. Um, and the grandma’s like, you don’t need to do that shit.

Uh, but she goes, she goes over and talks to her and they talk about Mrs. Garrett. Apparently at one time had a daughter, like when, when Rachel and her friends were kids, Mrs. Garrett had a daughter that was about their age. Um, but she had some kind of disease that she couldn’t come outside, like a skin disease or something.

And, and then she says that she got. Taken away from, well, she says taken from her. So I didn’t know if that meant taken away or if she had lost, like if she had died. I wasn’t sure. Then we have one of those random scenes, which is just a random kill scene where this ridiculous caricature of a woman in.

You know, rollers and a heavy makeup and a goofy robe is chasing her dog sugar balls or 

Todd: balls or balls, sugar balls. Where are you? 

Craig: Sugar balls. And the owner both get a oft. 

Todd: She gets stabbed and then she gets stabbed right in the head. The top of the head that always violent. These sheers go through anything.

I’ll tell you what, 

Craig: and in that way it is very much like silent night, deadly night, it is violent. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s silly violence. Like the movie is not scary in any way, but there is a, there is a good amount of violence, but then we see Mrs. Garrett in her house by herself. Th th Rachel, I have to leave, you know, I’m going shopping with my girlfriends, but I’ll come back later.

And then we see Mrs. Garrett talking to her. Mannequin Santas and she’s clearly. Uh, nutcase, like she’s talking to the Zana. She’s like, I have it. And she’s very emotional. Like she’s very angry, like almost at the point of like tears, like telling me

that you can take your question out on whatever.

I guess it was a dream, but she does talk to these things and like she has, she has a female mannequin then necklace 

Todd: that says daughter in case.

Craig: And she talks to it and like she sets the daughter mannequin and one of the Santa mannequins up at a dinner table and like they have dinner together and she, she talks to the Santa, like they’re at a terrible marriage. Like, what did you say to me? Nothing. It’s a mannequin. We can’t even get through what dinner without you criticizing me.

Like, oh my God, it’s so silly. The girls go out shopping for a minute. And they surprise Rachel with apparently her estranged boyfriend, who she has dumped because she has like abandonment issues because her mom left her something it’s so contrived and stupid. 

Todd: And the, and the acting doesn’t help. Right?

Cause like he’s really bad. He just, oh, he’s gotta be the worst of the mall. I don’t 

Craig: know. Don’t 

Todd: don’t blame Sarah. I have this rose for you. He just hands her a rose. And then like, we cut away to two more random people, like just having sex. Uh, and the guy gets tied up and the woman I love this bit, this guy gets tied up, right?

They’re doing this guy, kinky sex game thing. He gets tied to the bed, you know where that’s going. And she says, just a minute, I’m going to come back with a surprise. She goes to the refrigerator and she sees these garden sheers sitting on the table behind the fridge. I was like, Hmm, that’s weird. And opens it up, pulls out a cue card.

Sex it on the table and a jar of peanut butter sets it on the table. A jar of jelly sets it on the table and a stick of butter. And each time the camera pans over to the table, you see this years and I’m like, aha. All right. About the fourth time that pans over those sheers are going to be gone and sure enough, they are, she gets killed.

And then he goes in and chops the Dick off of the guy on the bed as well.

Craig: And then Rachel takes the girls. Their names are G and Sarah. Not that it matters. 

Todd: The cat went to eat it though. We saw flop ground the cat. That’s right. I forgot about that. 

Craig: Oh gosh. So she, Rachel takes the girls back to Garrett’s house. Like they’re going to do this as a group, but like then Mrs. Garrett is like, oh, well I have a date tonight.

But not a romantic one. I’m celibate and happy about it, like, okay. Um, but she gives them this big, long list of like things to do. Like you’re going to have to get all this stuff out of the attic or whatever. And Rachel and Garrett end up in the daughter’s room and there’s, they’re talking and Rachel’s like, you know, I felt bad because I always wanted to play with Jamie.

She’s like, she picks up this doll and she’s like, didn’t I give this to Jamie for Christmas. And Garrett makes up some lame excuse like, oh, she was sick. So she couldn’t play with you or something. I don’t remember. But then we see a flashback and it’s the little girl we don’t see your face. We only see her back.

She’s looking out the window and the mother Garret. Telling her, the other girls don’t want to play with you. They are selfish and spoiled rotten. They don’t have a good bomber. Like you

come away from the window, baby, stop torturing yourself. Those children, they won’t understand you. They will make fun of you. They will laugh at you because you are different. Which I was like, well, that seems like a pretty obvious clue. Like, Hey, at that point, I’m like, obviously this little girl. Is the killer of Santa’s, right?

I mean, it seemed pretty 

Todd: obvious. Well, it’s kind of taken from, you know, it’s like every killer Sante movie we’ve seen so far where the, you know, the killer Sante turns out to be this disturbed child, right. Who is treated poorly by their 

Craig: parents, some sort of trauma 

Todd: and then she comes back in is like, I always tried to be so positive as a mother.

Craig: Yeah. Positive reinforcement is so important with children, you know? Okay. Lady, whatever. Um, and then there’s more like there’s a Krampus mention, which is just offhanded and stupid. And then I have. Note is horny lady and purple lingerie. There’s this gorgeous porn star looking lady like, like top shelf porn star looking lady, 

Todd: like Vegas 

Craig: strip club, like rolling around on her bed and Perryville Andre.

And she’s, she she’s like calling out to her lover. Like, are you going to be horny when you come out of the shower? I love these covers age. Like, could you give me a heads up? It can be horny because otherwise I’m going to read my book. 

Todd: Something tells me there wasn’t a lot of time spent on the dialogue in these scenes.

Craig: And so she’s laying there in her bed and something. Violently shakes the bed. And the first time that it happens, she’s like, oh, that was

Todd: right. Then the second time, it’s like, Ooh, I better pay attention. And slowly crawling across the bed in then a giant knife shoots up from under the bed. I mean, at this point you would probably want to leap off the bed, which is the last no. 

Craig: Like starts feeling around, like, what are you doing? And the knife keeps coming up and eventually she does get off it Santa from under the bed, how he got there, God knows grabs her and pills her under the bed.

And then it cuts immediately to another booby shower scene. And what is happening? It turns out that these are lesbians, um, surprise, lesbians, and 

Todd: cheated out of a lesbian sex scene here. 

Craig: Well, we definitely were. I mean, cause both of them seemed Randy is right, but anyway, so, um, she comes out, she sees her girlfriend dead and then Sante ends up stabbing her through the door first through her chest.

And then when she slides down the door, then he, uh, Stabs her through the door again, through her head that he opens the door and there’s a vibrator on the sink. And he takes that,

is this Sanuk. I was like, is this Santa like planning a party for later? Like, oh, I’ll just take this, 

Todd: uh, Dick from the lesbian couple as well.

I wasn’t sure what was going on at this point. 

Craig: It cuts, it cuts back to the girls and they just need reasons to split them up. So Sarah runs to the store for booze. Geo wants to try on the Christmas dress that Jamie, the mannequin is wearing. Rachel finds a picture of Mrs. Garrett as a nurse with her mom.

Like, were they both nurses? Did they work together or something 

Todd: thing like that, which shocks her because she says, oh, my mom said that she never knew her or something. 

Craig: Well, and Mrs. Garrett had said, I don’t know. She didn’t remember much about her mom, but she remembered that she was pretty or something 

Todd: like that.

Or like seriously alarms her. And 

Craig: she, and she calls her grandma and the crude grandma continues to be crude, but she won’t talk about it. She says, we’ll talk about it later. And so Rachel snoops around some more, they find a naked Santa mannequin. I say Santa mannequin, just because it’s wearing a Santa hat, otherwise it’s naked, but kisses were there.

Lipstick marks all over its body and prominently on its. 

Todd: Yes. Like the cartoon really like perfect lipstick kisses, like, like a lipstick stamp all over this thing.

Craig: And they notice and are interested in a padlocked little door in her. Oh God, I still 

Todd: don’t understand what that 

Craig: either. Right. I 

Todd: mean, but they decide they need to find the. 

Craig: Yeah. So they’re looking for that. Cut back to the grandma. She pulls down a box of old letters, just so that it will be out. And then there’s a cat scare.

Todd: That’s hilarious. She’s looking out the window and a cat gets thrown through the window. You’ll 

Craig: love that. It always makes me, so it just makes me laugh. When somebody throws a cat at somebody in these 

Todd: movies, I liked her reaction. It was like, holy shit or something like that. Forget in these movies, but it’s a lot more accurate portrayal.

Craig: Yeah. And I’m an. Lover. I like cats. I’ve had cats. I don’t have cats anymore because I have dogs and dogs and litter boxes. Don’t go together. It’s just doesn’t work. Um, but it doesn’t even bother me when people throw cats in these movies. Cause you can throw a cat, like 

Todd: it’s going to be fine. You can throw

Yeah, no worries. Well then Santa, because he can be anywhere is suddenly behind her. And uh, he wraps her up with Christmas lights and pushes her out the window. I thought the window had glass in it, but I guess not. And I guess the windows like floor to ceiling now because she just rolls straight out 

Craig: and down at like, 

Todd: yeah, he kind of like comes up behind her.

It looks left looks right. And like, mm okay. And keeps pushing her and suddenly like this houses in the country or something. It’s no longer a suburban ish neighborhood, but there’s, I guess like a big woods right out in front or the front yard should be, and then he just kind of flings it and we just see, we just see a wheelchair with a dummy flying through the air.

Craig: It was hilarious. And it was so obviously a dummy oh gosh. But it was really funny. And like, it wasn’t even a cliff or anything. It’s like they launched this dummy down here, 

Todd: probably off the back of a pickup truck and then like downhill or something. It made no sense. The geography of how this house, where this house is situated stuff.

It only gets more confusing from here. 

Craig: Yeah, it was fine. And then Santa kills the cat for good measure.

Todd: That he killed the dog. 

Craig: And at this point it’s just having the girls separated. So Rachel goes to her grandmothers, she finds the box of letters and it turns out that the letters are love letters between her mother and Mrs. Garret’s husband. So her mom had been having an affair with Mrs. Garrett’s husband, her missing slash dead mom.

We don’t know where she is. Sarah comes back from the store. She sees Santa light peeking around the house, but she thinks it’s the girls messing with. So, so, so she kind of, you know, pursues him or whatever, and he eventually grabs her. And this is actually something that I appreciated about the movie.

These next Santa goes after the two girlfriends next and then separately. But in both cases, they fight back, um, pretty hard, you know, they, they, they put up a good fight and then they Ines, they initially fight back and then they run, like they do the right thing. They do the thing that we’re always screaming at these bimbos to do in these movies.

Like don’t just stand there and wait to get murdered, like fight back and then get the hell out of there. And they, they. 

Todd: They cry. They, they fight, they fight, they run, but then invariably, when the fight needs to be over, they’re paralyzed again, you know, like, I, I didn’t feel like any of these fight sequences, there were times when I’m like, oh yeah, that looks good.

And there were other times when I was like, oh yeah, this is not convincing. It’s like, like poorly staged, you know? And then it’s like, they didn’t really know how to end it in a creative way. It’s just like, oh, this girl like twists her ankle. And just kind of like suddenly can’t move at all right. Can not defend herself one bit.

She just, all she can do is lie on the ground and stare up, you know, as the Sante looms over here with a knife while she cries. So on the one hand they fight back on the other hand, they don’t really fight back hard enough for long enough, 

Craig: you know? I mean, they’re going to get it, you know, they’re gonna get.

Yeah, but, but I you’re. Right. And that was GS. She’s the one who eventually trips in and sprains her ankle or whatever, and is, you know, just laying on the ground. But before that, 

Todd: she, the one who gets her fingers cut off that, that hurt. 

Craig: Oh no, that was the other girl. Um, Sarah outside who had like ran towards the window, that her friend was right on the other side, she got tackled by Santa, just as the girl turned her head.

And so the girl didn’t see her. Um, but JIA is the one who’s in the house and Santa pursues her through the house. And like you said, she eventually gets killed, but I thought that this was the most. Effectively creepy part of the movie because she’s walking around the house and the camera is tracking her.

So her face is to the camera the whole time. And at some point you just see the creepy, Santa’s kind of in the shadows behind her slowly rise up behind her. And then as the camera is tracking her through the house, you just see the Santa’s probably about a 10 feet behind her just following her through.

Um, and I thought that was actually pretty creepy. 

Todd: It was pretty creepy. Uh, there were moments where I thought, I mean, come on, he’s like practically breathing down your neck. Shouldn’t you be? Be aware he’s. But yeah, it was, it was effectively creepy, but then she gets to the top, she gets into this dark room where she hears a noise and she looks ahead and thinks the Santa’s might be in the darkness ahead of her.

But actually of course, he’s behind her. He comes up behind her with a wire and tries to get her around the neck. And you think she’s gone, but just like you said, she manages to slip out and punch the guy, whack him a few times. He hits him with a vase that she finds and knocks him backwards into this dark closet.

At which point she really ought to run away, but instead she just stands there and stares at the darkness and the. Waiting for him to wake back up and lunge back out at her, which he does 

Craig: 10 kills her. And then that takes us to the final act, um, where Rachel ends up back at Mrs. Garrett’s house. And gosh, I don’t even know.

Todd: Well, I mean the boyfriend Cody called call she’s there’s this whole back and forth between her and Cody. Cody’s doing research on the internet for her. About her father. So he learns from looking on the internet that Mrs. Garretts ex husband is not actually dead or gone. He’s been in the state prison for 15 years.

And this is where that terrible Dolly shot is. And I think at this point, she’s realized that her mother had an affair with the husband and then Rachel is in the house and she can’t find her friends. Cause it’s all very dark. She calls her friend and finds her phone on the floor upstairs and freaks out it’s calls Cody again, it’s like she would never be without her phone.

And I thought, well, none of us would. And then she just, um, kind of creeps around the house until she follows a trail of lights down to creepy doll, a knife basement. The padlocked 

Craig: door is now open. 

Todd: Oh, was that through the padlock door? Because that door looked like it was about two feet. 

Craig: Yeah, it’s the padlocked door.

And she goes in and you’re right. Creepy mannequin. And not like there’s creepy mannequins. There’s like sewing stuff. There’s knives. There’s a dog kennel that has a sign on it that says timeout. Um, and there’s other things written on the walls too. And she ends up bumping into Mrs. Garrett down there 

Todd: at affective jump 

Craig: scare.

It was because I don’t know if they did this intentionally. I imagine they did. But when she, she turns around to find herself face to face with Mrs. Garrett. But Mrs. Garrett is emotionless in her face and standing perfectly still. So for a split second, I thought it was one of the mannequins, but it’s not it’s her.

And at this point she’s completely unhinged and she just lays out. What’s going on. 

Todd: Yeah. Monologuing. No, just basically long story short. She wanted a girl so badly, but Janie was born a boy. So she performed a little operation and I was actually glad to hear all this because I thought, okay, so the Dick chopping off might actually have this right point.

Right. Like, oh, okay. That makes sense. Uh, and then, so she chopped off his Dick and then for some reason, at some point Jamie was taken off to a mental hospital matched. I 

Craig: see this, this didn’t really make a lot of sense to me because it’s, she says, when I brought you home from the hospital, I took you down here into the basement and I performed a little procedure.

It was no big deal. It was just like removing a wart or something. Um, she said, but then when your father found out what you were, he tried to kill you. Um, and so I 

Todd: made it look like he’s the one who did 

Craig: it, it made it look like he’s the one that cut off your Dick, but it doesn’t make any sense because it seems like the, the dad didn’t go to prison until like the kid was already grown a little bit.

So I don’t understand the timing. Plus 

Todd: this girl was like staring out the window at her, you know, pre-adolescent friends skipping around. So when did they take her to the mental hospital? 

Craig: Because Mrs. Garrett makes it sound like the baby was taken away right after that. So it doesn’t make sense, but whatever.

I did think that that part of the story having Mrs. Garrett became, I mean, we could tell that she was a Nutter, you know, way early on. Um, but having her really kind of be. The principal villain really? Um, I mean, she’s not doing the killings herself, but she’s aware. Um, because, uh, she says, so now, um, you know, Jamie’s been in the hospital all this time, but now she’s finally come home, um, for the holidays and she wants me to fix her.

And so Jamie has been out collecting dicks so that apparently Mrs. Garrett can put one on her, 

Todd: which at first didn’t make a lot of sense, Mrs. Garrett. Well, she drinks the egg knock, Rachel drinks, some of her eggnog, and you knew that was going to be spiked. And so, uh, she, Rachel starts kind of like acting a little ill, which apparently the actress herself was pretty ill while they were filming this whole thing.

And she starts calling Mrs. Garrett, mommy, mommy, I missed you so much, but then she’s like, no, no, you’re not my mommy. The Santa comes and you know, which is Jamie. Now we know and, and throws her in the little dog kennel, which she ought to be able to just kick her way out of, but whatever throws her in the dog kennel and then brings his bag of dicks up to show to mommy.

I didn’t understand this bit because if mommy wanted a girl that, and she’s the one who chopped off Jamie’s Dick, why would she be so willing or eager to fix it? Then I thought, well, Is it? Well, I guess she says later, later she sends Santa out of the room and says, oh, go out there. Mommy wants to talk to you for a second.

So she sends him out and then she turns to, um, Rachel and says, look, I know that Jamie’s crazy as a loon and I’m not gonna do this operation for him. It’s not going to work. We both, I, you and I both know this. Do you think was it was the, was the conceit sort of like, yeah, but now she finally has a daughter in Rachel.

Craig: She says, so, you know, there’s only one solution. I have to kill Jamie and I’m going to, and then you and I can live happily ever after. 

Todd: I feel like, which is dumb. It’s really stupid. It doesn’t make sense. Even in a crazy person’s mind. It still doesn’t make sense to an audience. And I feel like in a way, the movie showed its cards little too early in painting her so crazy.

So early. Yeah. Yeah. It certainly added a bit of weirdness to the movie, but the ending just feels like a big muddy monologue. The explanation, I mean, we knew she had to be up to something. We knew she had to be down into anything. So it’s not like any of this really shocked us too much. I would say it was just sorta like, oh, okay.

So that’s that, that, okay. That’s why. 

Craig: Well, and there is, I mean, there’s so much of it that we didn’t even say all of it. Like we also find out that she killed Rachel’s. And we’re in the backyard. Um, fast, it comes very, very fast. Cody shows up at some point and Cody fights Santa. Um, but he ends up getting tied down and at one point it looks like he might get away just 

Todd: chilling in the back while all this shit’s going on.

She’s monologuing, they’re throwing her in the cage. And after I’m like, isn’t Cody just like right behind you guys, why isn’t he like yelling or struggling or anything? Right. 

Craig: And Garrett, like, I Garrett eventually kills him too, but he, Cody has that fight with Santa. And then soon, soon thereafter, Rachel has a fight with Mrs.

Garrett. And when I say fight, I mean like a full blown fight, but this is an element where I felt like it was almost. Over produced. Like the fight was so choreographed. I imagine that it’s just that these people are not, they’re not trained, you know, like, like they, they clearly knew what they were doing, but that was the problem.

Like every move felt anticipated. Um, it just didn’t feel real at all. It just felt like, okay, you know that now I’m going to throw you over here. So you’re basically just going to kind of dive when I touch you. Like it just, it didn’t look right. I mean, I, I appreciate the, uh, it was ambitious. Um, I think, but it didn’t.

No. So then, okay, so what’s her name? Rachel’s in the dog kennel. And then the motives tied at the table. Cody’s tied to the table. The Garret is walking out to go kill Jamie, but kind of remembers last second before she walks out. Oh yeah. And takes this years and kills Cody. So he’s dead. So then she goes out and Jamie is like looking at the Christmas presents under the tree, I think, or something.

And, um, the mom comes up behind her and I’m sorry, baby. You no longer belong in this world.

I can’t protect you. I could say if you make you better. Oh, gee. Why he didn’t keep coming back to me. Like the little gerbil line.

Have you ate nothing, but there ain’t nothing worse than that. 

Todd: That was jarring to say the least, 

Craig: I have to give this credit woman for playing the unhinged really well. Like she can, she plays levels and she can, she can jump levels really quickly. I thought she, I mean, she seemed crazy. She, she did a good job and then she stabs Jamie in the back and it’s like, oh, but mommy still loves you.

Mommy still loves you. But apparently she didn’t stab deep enough because Jamie turns around and starts fighting with her and they fight for a while and Sante is clearly getting the better of her. And then Rachel just comes walking out like. She got out of the dog kennel and she just comes walking out and kind of sits in a chair and watch it.

I liked that bit, which I thought, which I thought I know, I thought it was kind of funny then, uh, Jamie is strangling Garrett, and it’s a perspective shot where we’re seeing from Mrs. Garrett’s perspective. And we see Jamie above her in the scary Santa’s mask, strangling her, and then mannequin Santa’s heads come into frame there over Jamie’s shoulders watching 

Todd: and participating.

That’s just her mental, you know, that’s in her mind I think. Oh 

Craig: yeah. I mean, it’s just her crazy, but it did, it was very reminiscent of tourist trap, like for sure, definitely tourist trap. And so she dies and Rachel walks over and kneels down beside Jamie and. Let’s go bury this bitch up back.

And Jamie takes his ma his, her, I don’t know, mask off and throws it on Garret’s face. So she’s kind of wearing it now. And there is a shot where you almost see Jamie’s face, but it’s out of focus. And I liked that too. I didn’t want to see, I didn’t either that character. I wanted that character to remain a mystery, um, and they start to go outside and Rachel turns all the Christmas lights off and that’s it that’s the end.

It was okay. Like it was kind of a, it was kind of a good, bad movie. Um, 

Todd: you know, just enough to 

Craig: make fun of, but just enough, just enough. There was enough TNA enough sexy people. Garrett was unhinged enough. The 

Todd: gore and blood was really there. The facts were there. 

Craig: The story of the, you know, traumatized child becoming a killer Santa is nothing new, but the details of the backstory were interesting and different and a little bit tragic.

You know, th this Santa really is, is tragic. Guy girl, whatever was mutilated and, and abused as a child. And, you know, that’s so the backstory, interesting enough, it’s not a good movie. If you’re looking for something quality to watch this, isn’t it. But if you’re going to get together with some of your buddies,

Todd: I think I’m going to just start playing a clip every time 

Craig: I haven’t said it a long time. 

Todd: And also, uh, you know, like we say about these Christmas movies is that we like it when they’re chock full of Christmas. And this certainly is so there’s, it’s got that 

Craig: going for it. You can have fun with it. You know, you could make a list of all the corny.

Things that show up in these kinds of movies and make it a drinking game. If boobies take a shot, like 

Todd: honestly, If the acting were a little bit better, they might’ve been able to pull this off. So it didn’t seem quite so ridiculous. I 

Craig: agree. And had the, the, um, actors been more age appropriate. I think that that really took me out of it.

Cause these seemed like grown-ass adults and it just seemed a little silly, but, but it was fine. And I think, you know, it was a nice break from the more serious stuff that we did last week, which was also good, but, uh, you know, in a different way. Yeah. Nice to have something, a little more light to kind of finish off the Christmas season and then.

We’re going to smack you in the face with something goofy for new years, 

Todd: pig, all lined up for you. And we’re so it’s a request. 

Craig: It’s a request that a, one of our loyal listeners has made many times. So at least that one guy will. Grill 

Todd: for everybody else that remains to be seen?

Well, it was lovely spending the holidays with you guys once again, another year here on two guys and a chainsaw. Thank you for all of your requests and, uh, please keep them coming. Just to check us out online to guys and a chainsaw podcast is all you need to Google to find all of our pages and places online, where you can leave us a message.

Let us know what you thought of this episode and request episodes for the new year. Thank you so much for listening. Please share this with a friend until next week and until 2020 to Merry Christmas. I’m Todd and I’m Craig Merry Christmas with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

If you’re looking for a film to put you in the Christmas spirit, search a little further. If you’re looking for one to depress the hell out of you, check out what Simon requested of us. This taught, psychological horror film never lets up until its devastating conclusion.

Thank you, Simon, for the request!

Ep 281 – the-lodge

Todd: hello and welcome to another Christmas edition of two guys in a chainsaw.

I’m Todd and I’m Craig, the movies that we’ve been doing so far have been pretty silly this week. Uh, Craig chose for us to do something a little more serious. Uh, dare I say, downright nihilistic. 

Craig: I didn’t know. 

Todd: You had to have some clue because the director of this film, uh, several. Fiala and Veronica France also did good night, mommy, which, which is also, um, oh, a similar tone, I think, in this, to this movie.

Craig: Yeah. I did know that and that should have been a major tip off because that movie was really good, but, but dark, uh, dark and gripping. Yeah. And this movie is to build on, like, I, I don’t even remember if I watched the trailer. I must have, but I just, you know, I read the story and it, or I read the synopsis and it did sound like, you know, potential for like family drama.

Um, 

Todd: but or 

Craig: something like that. Yeah. But I didn’t really know what I was getting into. And, um, honestly, like I was, I was watching it yesterday. Oh my God, this is one of our Christmas selection.

Todd: Yeah. Well, the movie is called the lodge from 2019. Also apparently a request from Simon. Uh, so thank you, Simon. For this, we really hope that you’ve met, uh, the 2019, the lodge and not another horror movie that I found online also called the lodge. But I think that was like 10 years earlier than this. Yeah, Christmas movie.

Well, it does take place during Christmas. That is kind of one of our criteria, right? It’s very snowy. There are Christmas decorations going down, but as far as the Christmas spirit goes, I don’t know. I mean, depends on how your Christmas is go. Mine are usually a little bit more cheerful and this movie really?

Uh, yeah, it was pretty depressing. I, once it was done, I just kinda wanted to. Before we get going, we have to give our standard warning that this is a kind of movie that will surprise you and keep you guessing throughout it. So, um, if you’re at all interested in watching it and I think you should, for sure, uh, just, you know, just know you might want to kill yourself by the end of it

have loved ones nearby. You get the suicide hotline out, you know, something like that. It’s a pretty intense movie from beginning to end. And I think that actually that was one of its strengths, but yeah, if you want to see it, then go see it before you listen to this because we’re going to spoil it. All right.

Probably just going to spoil it all pretty soon. 

Craig: Maybe you could summarize the whole thing in five minutes, which I actually did last night because the movie stuck with like, it’s, it’s one of those movies. That’s hard to shake. Like when you’re, when you’re done with it, it’s hard to shake it off. And so.

Telling my partner about it last night. And, and I told him like, you know, the setup and then like, and then it just, it just gets even more bleak from there. And he’s like, well, I’m not going to watch it. So you may as well tell me, so I did, I just ran through the whole thing in like five minutes. And you can, but at the same time, I took a bunch of notes.

Like way more than usual. It’s not like things aren’t happening. Things are, things are, things are constantly happening. Within the confines of a very small space. And, uh, I don’t know, like ultimately most of the things that happen are on their own, fairly inconsequential, but it’s just this building. The thing that struck me most about this movie was that I was in a constant state of dread throughout the whole thing.

I was just kind of 

Todd: waiting for the other shoe to drop. It’s like a sword dangling above you though. 

Craig: I wasn’t scared, at least not in the traditional way, but like, I just constantly felt like. This is so bad and everything like anything that’s going to happen is going to be bad and it’s going to turn out horribly.

And I was just, uh, I was, I really just, honestly, I was tense throughout the whole thing up until the very, very, like, until the last moment. And I, okay. Spoiler alert, it doesn’t end well, and I knew that it wasn’t going to, and I was just waiting to see what horrible tragedy was going to ensue. 

Todd: You know, I mean, they see that this is constantly listed as a psychological horror film.

And, you know, I don’t know if anybody’s really defined what a psychological horror film is. I would say all horror films are psychological to a certain extent, but we’re talking what the movie really does. Well, I think from the beginning is it really opens itself up to a lot of possibility. Like it could be super natural things going on.

It could not be, you know, right. Who is going to be the, what you might say, antagonist, you know, kind of keeps changing through the movie. Like you’re not quite sure who who’s going to be causing the problems, you know, or who’s going to be kind of behind what’s going on. And then even when it starts to become a little bit more clear, there’s a little bit more to learn.

And then he just marches relentlessly towards, you know, is going to be a very bad conclusion and you hope it’s not what you suspect it might be. And it almost more or less for me anyway, turned out to be that after we’re talking like all these abstract ways, 

Craig: but, you know, I didn’t know exactly where it was going to go.

I just had a strong certainty really that it was whatever it was going to be was not going to be good. 

Todd: No, nothing’s going to wrap up well, right. 

Craig: You said nihilistic and I think that that’s probably the, a great adjunct. To describe it. Another thing that I said when I was describing it last night, it’s like, it’s just a series of terrible, terrible decisions.

Like yes. At any opportunity that somebody has a choice, it’s just the worst possible decision that they could possibly make. 

Todd: Also, this is just, I just thought, you know, I just realized it’s filled with unhappy people. Yeah. Nobody from the very beginning of this movie, it’s a tense family situation.

Nobody’s happy and nobody ever gets happy, you know? And that adds to a certain, I would say like psychological claustrophobia, right? Yes. You don’t see a wide range of emotion. It’s just, it’s just all bad. 

Craig: I mean, that’s the thing, that’s another thing that made it so dreadful to me was that it was, it’s a movie that’s based in real human trauma.

Like these things, you know, the things that happen, God forbid that such a devastating series of events would happen to people, but it’s all realistic. 

Todd: Yeah. And I thought, you know, there was a point at which I think the movie purposely leads you down a path where you think there might be something supernatural happening, but perceptively, I think pretty early on you realize, oh, that’s not even the worst that could happen.

This could be it’s much worse that there is no supernatural thing that this is like you said, ground in unreal. And that this kind of stuff can and probably does happen to people. It also, I’m just thinking about it now. I think a movie could be pretty triggering for folks. 

Craig: Oh God. Yes. There are so many, uh, triggering things about it.

In fact, there are things that happen and it’s going to be, it’s going to be in the next five minutes that we probably talk about it that I don’t want to talk about. Like let’s, uh, let’s let’s do it. Let’s at least get it started. Let’s warn. 

Todd: I think we’ve done enough warning here. Don’t don’t contact us and say, we triggered you.

Okay. You’ve had your morning now. There’s if there were things like suicide, uh, general family drama, death in your family, 

Craig: religious trauma 

Todd: cult, like, be it whatever. Like, um, yeah, this is going to push those buttons pretty hard because it deals with them in a brutally honest. It just rubs your face in it the whole time.

Yeah. Okay. 

Craig: First of all, if you’ve seen good night, mommy, which you should, because it’s a really good movie again, very dark, but I thought as far as filmmaking is concerned, an excellent movie. Yes. You’re going to be kind of familiar with. Tone and the style, but it starts with shots of what looks like an interior of a home.

It’s like these fourth wall shots, like you are the fourth wall looking in. And it reminded me very much of funny games, uh, the way that it frames the setting. It turns out that these initial interior shots are actually of a doll house that the two children who are central characters in this movie have in their home.

But we also see an image just apropos of nothing of a loaded gun. And then we meet Laura played by Alicia Silverstone, who I did not even know who was in this movie. 

Todd: That was crazy. 

Craig: She’s calling out for her children and they’re, you know, it’s not like they’re not responding, but they’re not coming running or whatever.

And she’s standing in front of a mirror and she just breaks down. She just breaks down, crying in front of this book 

Todd: that bothered me. 

Craig: It didn’t bother me and you, because I think you and I, of course I can only imagine. Desperately in love with Alicia Silverstone. Like any man who grew up in the woods, an adolescent or a teenager in their twenties, in the nineties, Lisa Silverstone was a goddess.

I mean, and she still is, but I feel like they, I told Alan last night, I said, either they ugly her up a little bit or they just did absolutely nothing to pretty her up because she looks like a normal person.

Her hair is a little, just a little unkempt. Um, you know, her face shows what is probably her actual age. I don’t know if they patted her or maybe she was just in a little bit fuller season of her life. I don’t know. But she doesn’t look like the sex bomb that we know from the Aerosmith videos, which I liked.

She looks real and it was. Very much suited for this character. Who’s a middle aged mother who we find out is going through a divorce. Her kids, Mia is young. What would you guess? Like eight, nine, 

Todd: I guess. Yeah, probably eight, eight or nine. 

Craig: Yeah. And then, um, she’s played by a young actress who, I don’t know anything about Leah McHugh and then Aiden, um, is the son who I would guess 12, 13.

And he’s played by Jayden Marshall who played bill, uh, in the most recent movies. Um, and he was also in knives out. I recognized him immediately and he’s a very talented young actor 

Todd: actors had to, especially the girl, I think really had a lot on their shoulders. Yeah. Yes. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s a very emotive. He nailed the role, requires a lot of.

Intense emotion and, and yeah, they, they did a great job, but the parents are getting divorced and the dad, his name is Richard has a new girlfriend who it appear, you know? I mean, we, we find out, but from the beginning, it it’s obvious that this is a very sore spot. Like the mom is taking the kids over to the dad’s house and the daughter is like, is she going to be there?

And the mom’s like, no, but when they get there, I think that the girlfriend is there. She’s leaving. The mom, sees her through a window and the dad pretends that she hasn’t been there, but the dad sends the kids away to the store or something. And he says, I need to talk to you. And he brings her in, um, listen, um, I think we should finalize the divorce

or we can. Stay where we are. We have to, um, okay.

I got to get married September. Okay.

In what I thought was just, I don’t know. I just thought it was so well done. Alicia Silverstone’s character just says, okay. And turns around and walks out and that’s it. And then the next time we see her, she sits down at her kitchen table. She pours herself, a small glass of wine. She takes a sip and then from under the table are from out of our sight line.

She pulls out a gun and blows her head off. It’s so abrupt. I mean, in hindsight it makes sense. It’s not like it should have necessarily been unexpected, but it’s just so abrupt. And of course here, Alicia Silverstone, who I am desperately in love with. And, and I can, she she’s in the movie for five minutes and I believe her as a devastated woman.

Um, and she just kills herself, brutally and graphically, right in front of you, 

Todd: they kind of pulled a drew Barrymore, honest didn’t day from scream, where you take your most famous and, and actress, and then tit immediately subvert your expectations by offing her right away. And it’s right in your face. Eat for me, it had a similar impact to a full metal jacket.

You remember that when private. Goes in. And just after he’s taken all this abuse and just, just wrote, walks and sits down and then pulls out a rifle and blows his head off right in front of you. It just came out of it. Like you said, it didn’t come out of nowhere, but it wasn’t what you were expecting at that moment because of the casing, right?

The pacing of the movie is just so slow. And it’s just, like you said, you can see her pain, you can see it was difficult for the husband to bring it up. You knew she wasn’t going to like it. And from that earlier scene where she kind of breaks down in front of the mirror before they go, she knows this as something like this is coming, like, she’s anticipating this when she’s dropping those off to the kids, the minute the husbands said, you know, bring them over and I want to talk to you.

And it’s just so real. And so that bothered me 

Craig: a lot. And that was the thing. Like, I don’t like to talk about suicide. I don’t want to. And so. Moving on, we move on to her funeral. And like you said, the little girl, I mean, it’s just as a kid would be, I mean, she is just devastated and just crying and it, I mean, it’s, it’s torturous to 

Todd: watch.

Well, it is. And I was just thinking also like what a terrible thing to do to your kids. Uh, see, that’s the thing, that’s why 

Craig: no one talks about it. I just ha I, I lack empathy when it comes to suicide and I don’t wanna come across as being a jerk, but that’s why I said just a series of horrible decisions.

Like, you know, this dad leaves his family for this younger woman. This mother who’s selfish. This mother who is obviously devastated by her own tragedy, kills herself. And you know, then these kids are left behind. I just, I, I don’t want to be judgemental about it because I understand that mental health is serious and I don’t know what people’s thoughts are in those moments.

And I don’t know what their motivations are. And so I don’t want to be judgemental about it, but it feels really selfish. 

Todd: And again, like the grieving was very real in this, the funeral scene, he frames things up like a Tableau sometimes. And. Here we have all of the funerary, uh, participants who were standing around.

They have these black balloons and the girl there’s a doll moot motif throughout this whole thing. And the girl is holding this doll that, you know, very quickly, well, it is literally represents her mother, but then it becomes like kind of a companion to her. It’s like her replacement for her mother is this doll that she can carry around and kind of talk to and dress up.

And that’s so heartbreaking in and of itself. And she tries to more or less send it to heaven by, you know, they’re going to release these balloons and she ties the doll to the end of the balloon, but as they all release the balloons and she’s the last one to release hers, of course the weight of the doll carries it back down to the ground and she just so frustrated.

She just picks it up and tears the doll off and lets it go and just cry some more. I mean, 

Craig: She’s devastated. She’s devastated. And I think that this is as good a time as any, because this shot of them standing in the sanctuary, which is a really interesting sanctuary. Uh, I mean, they, they, they have the funeral inside, but then they go outside for this balloon release and they release these balloons through like an opening in the ceiling.

That’s overlooked by a large cross. The movie is shot beautifully. Like the cinematography is just stunning frame. I mean, it’s just absolutely gorgeous. Like you said, the framing, I mean, it does, it looks like a picture. I mean, you look like you’re looking into a shadow box. Um, and so many of these scenes, it just looks absolutely 

Todd: gorgeous.

There’s not a lazy shot in the whole movie. No single one. 

Craig: Yes, it’s absolutely gorgeous. But yeah, that, that part where she wants to send her mom up. And then the next thing that we see is the dad is trying to comfort Mia, who is devastated and crying and saying, mommy, can’t go to heaven. You don’t understand.

And that part just broke my heart too. And I thought about it on different levels. Like I thought that the whole balloon thing was symbolic. Like she literally the doll that is a fuss similarly of the mother, you know, couldn’t ascend, physically couldn’t descend, but I don’t know because they don’t, at least in this aspect, they don’t play into the religious element of it too much.

But one of the tenants of many Christian denominations, including Catholicism, which I claim is that suicide is a moral sin. So. People who commit suicide, can’t go to heaven. And I just can’t imagine that weighing on a child, especially a child who’s been raised to believe, you know, that heaven comes out, you know, uh, God, it’s just, it’s, it’s a dark 

Todd: movie.

Well, he is in the very beginning. We’re only what, 10 minutes in to this two, almost two hour movie. 

Craig: Right. Which is why. Okay. So then it cuts to six months later and the next genius decision, the dad tells the kids that he wants them to go with him, to their family lodge for Christmas, but he wants grace to go with them and he can’t even stay the whole time.

He can only stay a couple of days. Then he has to go back to work for a few days or a week, and then he’ll come back for Christmas. So. I’m going to take you to our family lodge, where you have tons of memories of your mother and dump you there with my girlfriend who broke up our marriage and our family and leave you there with her alone.

Todd: Like what? 

Craig: And the kids are like what’s. No, thank you 

Todd: appropriately. So, and it’s interesting too, how there’s a little bit of time that goes by before we see her. 

Craig: Yeah. And oh, they play it like that. Like you see her in silhouette, you see her behind windows in shadow. It’s only when they’re getting ready to go.

And the dad greets her outside of the car and then she gets in the car and then the dad gets a phone call. He’s like, oh, hold on. I have to take this. And he gets out like, have the kids even met her? 

Todd: You just 

Craig: leave them in the car alone. But 

Todd: before that, we do actually see her as a younger child 

Craig: because they incense, 

Todd: the kid says something kind of cryptic.

He says something about her and the one from your book. Yeah. And you’re like, you’re like from her book, I immediately thought, is he a psychiatrist? And this is one of his patients. I immediately thought that I don’t know if there was a. Earlier on or not, but that was a, that was something I thought. And then sure enough, the kids go into his, sneak into his office while they’re there.

It’s Thanksgiving. I think also interesting. Like he tries to get her to join them for the Thanksgiving meal and the kids are protesting it and he gets a call from her and everything and he ends up meeting her outside and they kind of have a chat. And I think the implication is probably between the two of them.

They decided now is not the time. And so she ends up leaving again. We still haven’t seen her because it’s through kind of a fogged window, but then the kids that night go up into dad’s office and go through his stuff. Well, there’s a, an article that she was in a cult and it’s clearly everything kind of clearly references the heaven’s gate called, but also Jonestown is a little bit like this too.

Right? Where, where the, the leader of suicide call this woman’s name is. 

Craig: Grace is her character name. She’s played by Riley Keough. Who is the daughter of, um, well, it’s, Elvis’s granddaughter. 

Todd: She’s been in quite a few 

Craig: things. She hasn’t, she’s been a model and actress and has built a name for herself. But you know, she comes from, I don’t know, Hollywood royalty may not be the right word, but she comes from a famous family.

She 

Todd: was the only surviving member of this cult when everybody killed themselves. 

Craig: And she, and it said something like she, she was the only one, uh, who survived and she was supposed to spread the word or something. Like that’s why she was allowed to live. It’s weird. It’s important. But you see. Th, I mean, the kids see, they see video footage, you know, uh, I, I guess probably police footage, um, of when they came into this called, after the fact, after everybody had killed themselves in they’re all lying in beds, um, 

Todd: from the girl she was 

Craig: shooting it.

I didn’t know that. 

Todd: Oh yeah, she was shooting it. Cause, cause it’s it’s cam quarter and it’s first person and she’s walking through and kind of uncovering a few people from their sheets and you can see that they have a duct tape over their mouth that has the word sin written on it. And then she turns to the camera towards a mirror.

And that’s the first time we see her face is when she turns the camera towards a mirror. And we see her there in the mirror holding the camera. I thought it was interesting that that is the first time we see her as a child just after this event happened in this very creepy footage. And then they pile into the car and we get to see her adult face, like right after that.

Really smart choice, I think on the part of the filmmakers, but a, 

Craig: well, the movie does a great, it’s just a well-made movie, like before they leave, because they do, they, they go up to this lodge obviously. Um, but we see the kids playing at the doll house and whispering, and there are all of these scenes, not scenes, just shots, really of the interior of the dollhouse with the dolls placed in different ways.

And I didn’t really know what was going on, but ultimately it all pays off later. It’s it’s strange. Um, but anyway, so they, they pick grace up for the trip. And again, a point is made of not showing her face until she gets into the car and the dad leaves. And she finally turns around to say hello, and you know, she, she does look significantly younger than the father.

She seems like a young woman, I would guess in her twenties. Um, the relationship. I mean, that’s another thing, bad decisions. This relationship is questionable. You know, she, I don’t know exactly what it is that he does. I don’t know if he writes crime books or what, but obviously she was a part of something that he was investigating.

And so to get personally involved with her is suspect on its own. 

Todd: Yeah, exactly. And I, okay. So you think he was like a, more of like an investigator or a writer of true crime? That’s an interesting idea. I thought, I don’t know why, like I said, I don’t think the movie’s really clear about it, but I don’t know why I thought he was maybe a psychologist and she was one of his patients either way.

You’re right. It’s probably inappropriate and definitely kind of a bad move. You, you know, you’re inviting. But tangibly, emotionally unstable person. And I mean, look, you can do whatever you want be with who you want to be with and whatnot. But when you’re a family, man, you’ve got these kids. You’re recently divorced.

She’s 20 years old or something and she ha she’s infamous more or less. And she has his troubled past. And we can, we can guess that she’s going to be emotionally fragile and she’s not jumping in all bubbly from the get go. She tries to reach out to the kids and be friendly to them and nice to them. But she also seems to be rather understanding that it’s tough for them to, I mean, we get that evidence when, you know, she doesn’t come over for Thanksgiving and she doesn’t really push things with them and doesn’t try to be overly happy with them.

It’s it’s like, she’s pretty sensitive to what’s going on. But also, you kind of wonder if, how troubled she still is, you know, and that’s where a lot of this dread comes from. 

Craig: Uh, it only makes sense and I don’t blame them at all. And I’m sure that I would feel the same way that the kids resent her or they feel that, that, uh, she destroyed their family in more ways than one.

She broke up their parents’ marriage. Uh, they believe that she’s responsible for their mother’s suicide. And while that’s not fair, I think that if I were their age, I would feel exactly the same way. Um, so she’s in a bad position, but again, everybody’s making poor choices. Like I don’t like cheaters. I just don’t like I get it, things happen, but I don’t like cheaters.

And you know, the dad is responsible. He was the married one. He there’s obviously a power dynamic thing going on here. He’s older, he’s professional, she’s younger. And. Potentially vulnerable. I mean, it certainly seems like she’s vulnerable, but she made her choices too. So I don’t just bad decisions all around.

Don’t screw around on your wife. Don’t screw around with married men and then you can avoid these types of movies.

I will give her, you know, her name is grace. And I was going to say, I will give her some grace because she is trying, you know, they, they get to the lodge and she tries, you know, we see that she has gifts for the kids. We 

Todd: see that she has pills as well. 

Craig: Yeah. Well, you know, that’s fine. I mean, if, if, if she needs to regulate her mental health with medication, there’s nothing shameful about that.

And she knows, you know, she seems to be doing that, you know, she’s she’s okay. She just needs her medication. Yes. 

Todd: Yeah. And you know, like you said, this is their family lodge where they have all these memories. And so there are photos of ma actually we’re seeing, you can tell that the doll house that the girl was playing with is modeled after this lodge.

I mean, that’s how important is lodges to them. The girls plays in it and there’s a picture like an old Italian Renaissance painting of Mary that is miniature form in the doll house that is full form here in the, um, in the lodge and exactly the same place. I 

Craig: think that we can do this element of the movie justice because it’s, it’s not subtle at all, but it’s background.

I mean, how much can we talk about the decor? You know, like it appears that the Mo the mother, the bio mom, Alicia Silverstone’s character, it appears that she was. At least I don’t want to say deeply, cause I don’t know that there’s enough to suggest that, but at least somewhat religious, like there’s religious iconography around the house and, and that painting is particularly prominent.

It feels like that the painting, especially, but all of the religious iconography. And then on top of that, the doll who I believe is meant to literally be an icon of the mother. Like the mother is so present throughout the movie, it’s like, she’s there, like she’s observing all of this. And, and potentially even manipulating is not the right word, but like, like she’s playing an active role.

It’s really well done. 

Todd: And you mean this in kind of a medal? I mean, you clearly, you mean this in a metaphorical way, because there is a point in which you do wonder if there’s some supernatural things going on. If the actual ghost of the mother, a literal ghost of the mother is haunting the house, it turns out that’s not the case, but you’re right.

Like the figurative and thematic ghost of the mother is very much haunting the house and the kids and the family. And also, you know, I, you just see a powder keg here because of the religious aspect. And this girl was rescued from a cult and is still clearly not over it because she’s taking medication.

And the kids are praying at the dinner table, quite devoutly, and she’s just kind of looking at them and you do wonder what an effect this has on her to be with these religious kids, surrounded by this religious iconography when she just escaped a cult herself, you know, not too long ago anyway. And it’s still.

Dealing with it, grappling with a coming to terms. And I thought, you know, as nice as she’s trying to be to everyone, this is going to be an issue at some point. Um, and it’s just digging into her and you see it because there’s a, you know, there’s a point when she’s unpacking everything. And like we said, we see the presence and stuff go into a drawer.

She hides them under some things. She puts her pills away at, but after she takes couple and to okay, she’s on medication. And then there’s a picture of the mom and the dad still there on the nightstand that she just picks up looks at for a moment and puts it away too. But this picture of Mary really bothers her because it is just sort of looming presence over the dinner table and she seated.

To the point where at some point in the movie she’s eating by herself, she turns around it to put her back to it. Eventually just takes it off the wall as well. This is a great movie for show me, don’t tell me, you know, like there’s just so much going on with these little moments and these little things that happen in this house that just speak volumes to the characters and their mental state and what they’re trying to process and what they’re trying to achieve.

Craig: Um, right. Well, and like you said, the mother is not. Literally haunting them, but I mean, just coincidentally things, like you said, she took down the painting. Well, at some point later there’s a tense moment and the painting that she had propped up against a cabinet or something, tips over and makes a loud noise and like draws attention to itself.

And so it does lead you to question whether or not there’s something supernatural going on. And we haven’t even really gotten to the part where you’re like, whoa, what’s happening. We’re we’re almost there. So there were parts when I did question, if there was something out of the realm of. Normalcy going on, you know, it’s a movie, so whatever can happen, but even little parts like that, like just the painting tipping over and drawing attention to itself in a tense moment door 

Todd: kind of opens on its own.

Yeah. 

Craig: Little things, little things that are easily explained rash. And they are in the movie. They’re easily rationally explained, but it keeps you on your toes. And I liked that the dad stays for a little while. They have some moments, they go ice skating. The little girl accidentally like drops her doll, the mom doll into a fishing hole, and grace tries to get it out for her and ends up falling through the ice.

They get her out, it’s shot amazingly well, it’s very tense and, and frightening. Um, but they do get her out and then the dad’s going to leave before he leaves. He’s actually a little bit hesitant. Like he tells her, you know, I don’t know, things are still a little tense. Maybe I should stay. And she’s like, it’s a couple of days.

It’ll be fine. Um, but just to be safe, I guess he, he shows her that there is. Uh, and, uh, he shows her the gun safe. And the combination for the gun safe is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, my God people, why even have a gun safe, like just leave it out on the table. If you’re going to put it in a gun safe combination, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Um, and, and he takes her out to like, show her how to shoot it, but she clearly knows her way around a gun. Well, this is not an issue. And then he leaves. And then this is when I thought things started getting really interesting and real, because as soon as the dad is gone, the kids completely shut her out.

They won’t speak to her. They lock themselves in her room or in their room eventually, which I thought was very realistic. The daughter who is younger, gives in a little bit and starts communicating. And they, you know, they talk about the little girl wants a dog for Christmas and grace has a dog. She’s brought her dog with her there, which I thought was hilarious because she has this little dog and she brings it to the lodge.

And the dad says, I set up a little dog bed for the dog and she’s like, oh, okay. So she goes and she puts the dog in the dog bed and then it never leaves that bad. 

Todd: I feel like they did a really good job of getting around the necessity of shooting with a dog by just like, they’ll just be sitting in the dog bed.

It’s it’s all it’s bed all day long. 

Craig: Oh, whole areas. Um, at there there’s some point. I had completely forgotten about it. I’m just looking through my notes. But when Mia, the daughter is talking to grace, we see the grace has a cross shaped scar on her Palm. Did you notice that? Do you know what that’s about?

I feel like it didn’t come up 

Todd: again. I felt like it was a cult thing or, or was it burned in there? Maybe in retrospect, I think it might’ve been burned in there, like kind of, uh, but yeah, 

Craig: yeah, that is, that would make sense later. Um, but Mia shows grace a video that they made for their dad for Christmas, which is just absolutely jam packed full of their mother.

Um, and so grace gets up and walks away and Aiden is not talking to her at all. Like he won’t even respond when she talks to him. Um, but she takes a shower and when she gets out, the mirror is steamed up, but there’s like a heart with. Like written in it, in the seam. And she looks, and Aiden has been watching her and she goes into their room and he’s pretending to be asleep, but she finds basically a shrine to their mother, which again, that’s fine.

They’re kids, they miss their mom, whatever. Then this is right after we see that shrine. There is a really loud discordant sound cue, uh, that, that scared the shock to me. And I know what’s happening and we see grace back lit and all of a sudden she seen the children in their beds, but they’re covered up like the bodies were in her cult, I guess.

For some reason takes grace takes the mom doll, but then she pretends like, she doesn’t know why it’s missing, but I don’t know if she felt guilty about taking it or what. So she just hit it somewhere else and helps the daughter find it. It’s, it’s really weird. But eventually, eventually grace confronts Aiden and she’s like, talk to me.

And he said, I don’t want to talk to you. And she says, oh, well, you don’t want to talk to me. He’s want to look at me in the shower. 

Todd: That’s right. 

Craig: And that’s kind of a, a turning point where then it seems like maybe he’s going to give her a chance. 

Todd: Has this happened before or after? Cause cause while the kids were kind of locking themselves up and not doing anything with her, she was decorating the house for Christmas.

And she has that. I think what you were talking about, the loud discordant noise and some of some of that that goes on is actually a dream that she has, that she wakes up from because her father kind of comes into it at one point, she’s having these bad dreams about her father. And when she gets up, she finds out that everything is gone.

Like her clothes, 

Craig: hold on. Not, not quite yet, but that’s what, that’s why I was saying, because it kind of seems like he’s going to give her a chance. And so they have dinner and then they’re watching movies together. Like they’re watching the thing. And then when it gets too scary, they turn it off and watch like the Michael Keaton, Jack Frost, Christmas movie.

But Mia is really cold while they’re watching movies. So Aiden goes and gets a gas heater and sets it up and. Grey says, is it safe to have that in here? And honestly, I, I couldn’t even remember, you know, I’ve used those kinds of heaters before, but I can’t remember if it was just outdoors or if they are safe for, oh, 

Todd: I used to use a, we used to use a kerosene heater in Japan quite a bit.

I mean, it’s actually still to this day, ridiculously common in Japan for families to have kerosene heaters, even in modern apartments. They’re just not that well-insulated and it’s just something they do. And 

Craig: a, and I mean, they, they are potentially dangerous because it is an open flame. And should the flame go out?

It’s going to still be continuing to pump out gas, so, well, yes 

Todd: and no. Yeah, yeah, for sure. That’s true. But even burning them in there, you’re eventually filling your house up with carbon monoxide. And so after about three hours, you have to vent it all out. Which is a S eternal source of frustration for us in our, our little Japanese apartment, because you just get the house warm and you’re enjoying the house for three hours.

And then, well, you got to open all the windows and, and vent the place. So the cold air brushes back in again, you know, that’s a big issue, especially if you just leave it on and it doesn’t have like an automatic shutoff or anything like that. Right. I 

Craig: see. And that’s the thing, like she asks if it’s safe and the kid says, oh yeah, it’s safe.

We use it all the time or whatever. Well, then they fall asleep and then that’s getting to where you are. They wake up, sh wait, doesn’t she wake up outside? Or was that a dream? 

Todd: Um, I think that was a dream. It 

Craig: was a dream. She wakes up outside. She sees the doll under the eyes, the ice breaks she falls through.

And I think. It’s the cult leader that like grabs her and pulls her down. But I couldn’t really tell if it was her or if it was Richard, it doesn’t really matter because it’s a dream by the way, offhandedly the, a cult leader in all of these weird, you know, scenes is played by Riley Chios father, um, very small role, but interesting connection there, she then does, she does then wake up inside.

And this is where all of a sudden, I didn’t know what kind of movie it was anymore because she wakes up inside and it takes these things are even though you see everything that’s happening, everything just didn’t register with me right away. The first thing that she realizes that it’s really cold, she tries to turn on the lights.

The power is dead. The her phone is dead because it hasn’t been charging. She tries to get water. The pipes are frozen, the gas heater is missing. And then even though. The camera has been showing us all of this. I didn’t realize until she did that, everything is missing. Christmas decorations are gone, the refrigerator is empty.

All of their clothes are gone. Everything’s gone including the dog, except for them. And their phones, which don’t work. 

Todd: Yeah. And, but this is kind of set up, like, like the thing that you had said earlier about the dog going missing and you, you didn’t quite know what to make of that. Um, while she was sleeping, I think what happened while she was sleeping, um, the kids had rounded up her things and put them in her suitcase, including the doll.

So she was just as puzzled as anybody to see that the doll was in her suitcase. But then when, um, uh, Riley’s a girl. No, what’s the girl’s name? The little girl Mia. Then when Mia is like, oh my God, I can’t find my doll. She didn’t want to admit right away, like, oh, like your doll mysteriously was, you know, packed up with my things.

Uh, she, she kind of pretended like, oh, I found it by the dog for you. But I think the implication here was the setup was supposed to be that she was sleepwalking and doing things in her sleep. And that, that was something that she was. Well, yeah, th that she had been doing in her sleep was that she had packed all that stuff up.

Didn’t realize it in the morning and it was kind of covering for it again. So when everything’s missing in the house, there’s one thing where you’re going, okay, well maybe this is some weird supernatural thing, but I think it’s eight and actually says, well, you w you walk all over the place, you know, at night, like 

Craig: you sleep walk.

She thinks that they are messing with her and she’s angry, and she’s demanding that they tell. Her where everything is, but they swear that they have nothing to do with it. And they say it was probably you. We hear you walking all around the house all night. And so here again, you wonder, is it her? It could be her.

Yeah. Is there, is there somebody else walking around in the house at night and they just think it’s hurt? Like there are all of these questions, but now they’re in the middle of a big storm. The generator won’t work. The next important thing that happens, which really threw me was their eat. They eat like all the food’s gone, but it seems like just maybe a few perishable thing or non-perishable things have been left behind.

So like they have some beans and some crackers and so they eat dinner and then the daughter Mia gets up to do something. And as soon as she walks away from the table, Aiden says to grace, I had a really weird dream, like last night, a nightmare. I dreamed that we all fell asleep and the gas heater started smoking.

And we suffocated. And from that point, I believe that’s what happened. I totally believed 

Todd: that’s what happened. Yeah. Like they’re stuck in like a purgatory. Right. Right. 

Craig: Um, and like the date on the clock says that it’s January 9th. And even though grace changes it back to December 22nd, when she looks at it again later, it’s gone back to January 9th, grace.

Here’s like, she’s just walking. And she hears me in her room talking. And it sounds like she’s all I heard her say was, I love you. I miss you. And then grace bursts in and demands that Mia give her the phone. And she says, I was just pretending I’m and she gives her the phone and, and grace can’t turn it on.

Cause it’s dead. Yeah. Cause it’s dead. Right. And then weird stuff starts happening. But you don’t know if it’s real or if it’s because she doesn’t have her medicine, like that’s the thing that she’s most concerned about. Like, I think at one point she even says, just give me my pills. You know, like everything else, whatever I need.

My pills. And so she starts seeing weird things. She washes herself with water, heated by the fire and the steam and the mirror, um, has repent written in it. She’s hearing voices that say repent your sins. I think it’s supposed to be the voice of the cult leader 

Todd: tries to walk to town, right? This 

Craig: is she right.

She tries. And she comes across some weird house that it looks like you see the cult leader, state that the house is shaped like a cross. Um, and it looks like you see the cult leader, like standing in it, but nobody answers. And she ends up just circling back to the house. At this point, after that Trek, she’s kind of.

Out of it. Um, and she won’t even come in and at some point the kids see her walking back towards the house, carrying her dog. 

Todd: And just before, before this though, just before this, when she does come back to the, to the. After seeing that weird cross shaped cabin out there, she sees something in the snow, some flowers by the foot of the, of the porch and she buries it and then digs even deeper and sees that there is a frame, it’s a picture frame.

It has the two kids in it. And it’s like in 

Craig: memoriam with like a black, like a black ribbon, 

Todd: and then like straight out, she comes inside and sees that they are praying intently by the fire. And there’s a piece of paper, some something printout, I guess, on the table. And she picks it up and the printout has like a newspaper article talking about all three of their deaths from carbon monoxide poisoning on December 22nd.

This point 

Craig: I was like, what? I believed that they were dead, but I was like, where did this come from? And like, The flowers and the picture buried in the snow. I was like, that makes sense. You know, if, if they died, somebody came, you know, in the interim and left this and it got covered up by snow and she’s finding it.

That makes sense. The printed out obituary that the kids found I’m like, where did that come from? What is happening 

Todd: was weird. Uh, and they, and they’re, they’re, they’re there, they’re praying intently and, and they yell. They’re like, we’re in purgatory, we’re dead. We’re dead. And blah, blah, blah. 

Craig: Yeah. She says, Aiden says, we must repent.

So you can go to 

Todd: heaven. He kind of 

Craig: disappears. Well, he says something like, I’ll prove it to you or something like that. Maybe I don’t know, they run off. And then the little girl screams her name and says, come here, come here. And she runs and she looks up this stairwell to the attic and he’s there hanging.

Apparently dead, but he isn’t dead. He lifts up his head and says, see, we can’t die because we’re already dead. We’re in purgatory. We have to repent our sins so we can go to heaven. And then she, from this point is just entirely tormented. She hears her dad’s voice telling her, just confess God is waiting.

And we see her walking on her knees and a circle in the snow, on the lake and praying. Um, and that’s when she brings the dead dog. And I think that this was a breaking point because, um, Mia is devastated by this dead dog. And she says, it’s my fault. It’s my fault. I left the door open. He must have frozen to death and then they can’t get her to come in.

And then the big twist is revealed. They were just fucking with her. And that’s why I brought up. Thing about the dollhouse in the beginning, they had this whole thing planned out from the beginning. They were staging it in the doll house before they even left. It was a messed up. So 

Todd: the movie is so good at flipping your sympathies around with the kids in a way, like you understand you sympathize with them.

When this comes out, that they have been messing with her this whole time and they go to the basement and they uncover a panel where they pull out all the crap that they collected from the house, including her medication, including her fricking coat. You know, the woman was outside in the snow without any coat on.

They come out and they put the coat around her and they admit, but she is too far gone at this point. They have driven her to the point of no return. And it’s their fault. 

Craig: Yeah, no, well, that’s the thing, like it’s hard to blame them. Like they are. Bereaved and they are angry. And I think, you know, they’re kids so justifiably.

So, but man, they really committed to this 

Todd: and pushed it as far as it could go. And it took a dead dog. They didn’t care about her and her emotional state and her mental state, her fricking medication, like. They don’t know what her medication is for, you know, who knows? 

Craig: Well, I’m, I’m, I’m willing to give, I’m willing to give them a pass on that too, because I don’t think that kids understand the importance and significance of medications.

So they may not have understood the gravity of it, but, but still she’s 

Todd: begging for her pills. Come on. I’m in. Also like you could give them a pass on everything because they’re kids, you know, I mean, look right, played some stupid pranks. When we were kids, we did some pretty heartless things because we didn’t know any better.

We thought something was funny or we didn’t know how it would affect somebody else. I feel like everybody’s got a story or two about something they regretted from their youth that they’re just appalled by, you know, hell, I’ve got stories from my twenties, you know? So, I mean, you could give them a pass on all this stuff, except the lengths at which they took it.

And the mental breakdown that she was obviously having, you do start to feel. They kind of get what’s coming to them to a certain extent. 

Craig: See, and I didn’t know, I didn’t know what was going to happen at this point. Um, but she, you know, like you said, I mean, she’s mentally gone. Like she’s, she’s physically harmed, you know, she’s been out in the.

Cold her face is frostbitten. Um, and she starts doing, before I go there, I was also just kind of blown away the extent to which they were able to carry this because the filmmakers did a good job addressing unanswered questions. Like why wouldn’t the dad have come back if he had been unable to contact his girlfriend for several days?

Like, wouldn’t that be a red flag? Well, as it turns out, their phones were working and they were communicating with the dad. So I’m sure they were telling the dad everything was fine. And so he wasn’t worried about it crazy or keeping 

Todd: up a ruse the whole time. Very elaborate. 

Craig: I know. It’s insane. Oh, and the other thing, like you said, you know, you can just find anything cause they’re kids, that’s fine.

I agree with you. But we’ve also watched movies. Like we did a Christmas movie one time. I don’t remember which one it was, but where this kid totally manipulates his babysitter and then ends up killing pretty much everybody. Like that kid was a sociopath. I don’t think these kids are sociopath’s. It’s true.

They’re making terrible 

Todd: decisions, 

Craig: a series of terrible decisions. But at this point, I mean, it’s. You know, she is gone. Grace, come on, let’s go inside.

It’s too cold. It’s too cold. I’m inside.

We’re just pretending.

I

actually didn’t hang myself. None of it was real. Can we, can we just go inside these

okay. Like she is, I’m kneeling on burning embers to repent her sins. And at this point, the kids are just hiding from her in the attic and the dad does eventually come. 

Todd: He sees their dollhouse. This is where we kind of see that everything was staged. You know, in retrospect, the filmmakers were teasing us with this the whole time we were seeing all those random shots of the doll house that at some point came into fruition.

Even the kid hanging, we had seen a doll in there. You’re just like, what’s that? You don’t know if this is some artsy thing or whatever they’re trying to do. No, they were literally showing us the doll house. The dad sees it and you know, he can’t get ahold of them anymore. So he gets in his car and drives that way.

And then he shows up, oh God, um, you want to just go through this bed? Yeah. 

Craig: I mean, it’s, it’s, I didn’t know. You know, he put there, there’s a very tense scene where there they’ve been hiding in the attic, but Mia has to go to the bathroom and, and against her brother’s advice, she goes down, she sneaks downstairs and she goes to the bathroom and she comes out and grace comes out of the shadows right behind her and follows her up the stairs.

And she has a gun and I didn’t know, well, the gun we knew. Was there. And I didn’t know what was going to happen. That cuts away from that shot of them. Huddling, the kids huddling together, kind of in a corner and her standing in front of them with the gun. And then the, the next shot is the dad’s car pulling up.

And I had no idea what he was going to be walking into. I 

Todd: thought we were going to hear a gunshot. Maybe 

Craig: I did too. I thought we were going to hear a gunshot as he approached the house, but we don’t. He walks in and he kind of notices some things are off, but it’s when he sees the dog dead in its dog bed that he’s clearly concerned.

And he ends up walking up to the actual. Where they are all still there safe, but she still believes that they are dead and in purgatory and need repentance. And she’s telling him this and he’s trying to talk her off the ledge. Um, but she says, look, no, we’re dead. We can’t die. We’re in purgatory. I’ll show you.

And she puts the gun to her head and he’s calmly pleading with her not to do anything. She pulls the trigger, but there’s just a click, like, I guess there just wasn’t a bullet in that chamber, but then. Yeah. I feel like she’s feels like she still needs to prove it to the dad. So she points the gun at him and cocks it and he’s pleading with her to just give her the gun.

Everything’s going to give him the gun everything’s going to be okay. And he reaches for it very gingerly and she pulls the trigger and shoots him in the head. 

Todd: Yeah, right there in front of his kids, right in 

Craig: front of his kids. And they all run, they all, the, the two kids run down and are weeping over their father’s 

Todd: body and said, I felt so terrible.

Craig: It’s horrible. It’s horrible. And I just felt so bad for everybody. I mean, I, I especially felt bad for the little girl because she’s so young and I’m sure she had no idea what consequences might come of this. I had a little bit less sympathy for the son, but ultimately I felt bad for him too. I’m sure that he never expected it to go this far.

I mean, it was cruel. I think he knew it was cruel. That was intentional, but I don’t think anybody ever thought that it would go this far. And then the kids are smart, I guess, and run away. They run to the car and you hear them start the car, but it’s, you know, seconds after you hear them start the car, you hear it crash.

And I knew it would because these roads are treacherous. I mean, they would be difficult for an adult who knows how to drive to navigate grace. Very calmly walks outside and starts walking to the car. It’s a long shot from above them. Again, I didn’t know what was going to happen. I thought she might shoot them right there through the windshield, but she doesn’t, and it, it just shows her approaching the car and then it cuts away.

And the next thing we see is an aerial shot of the landing where the father had. Shot and you just see a trail of blood. His body is gone, and then it cuts to the dinner table where she has seated the father at the head of the table. And she is sitting on one side and the two children are sitting on the other side and the girl is crying.

The son is on the verge of tears and grace is praying. And then she starts singing a song, which is a very familiar song that I can’t think of now, but it was like nearer my God to the, or something 

Todd: like that. 

Craig: She’s singing it. And of course the lyrics are about wanting to be closer to God and wanting to be with God.

And I will be with God soon. And I just thought it was. Strange, but it didn’t pull me out of reality that the children through their tears start singing with her and the brother at some point looks at the sister and says, it’s it’s okay. It’s going to be okay. And they’re singing. The camera is just on the kids.

And we see grace coming around behind them and she puts duct tape with sin on it, over their mouths. And she has it over her mouth cut to black, the end. 

Todd: Uh,

Craig: it’s, it’s so bleak. Like it’s one of the bleakest the movies I’ve seen. And yet I thought it was a really, really good movie. It’s hard to recommend because it is so 

Todd: bleak. I’ll never watch it again. 

Craig: No. Oh, absolutely not. But inter same thing with good night, mommy. I would never watch that movie again either, but it’s an, just an expertly made.

Film. So interesting. 

Todd: Keeps you guessing the entire time I was on the edge of my seat the whole time I was completely enthralled, it was just beautifully shot. And yet he was so uncomfortable. For most of it, hats off to the filmmakers for really ringing every last little bit of emotion out of these performances.

Craig: It’s going to say hats off to the actors because you know, the whole movie pretty much lies on the shoulders of this one woman. Who’s a young woman, um, and these two children and they do such an amazing job. Their performances are compelling. Apparently 

Todd: they made the right decision and they decided to shoot the film in sequence so that they could make sure to get this right.

You know, so that it, the, the, yeah, the, the, the relationship with them and how it unfolds and also the timing and, you know, how does her breakdown kind of develop? That would be a tricky thing to get, right? Otherwise it gets kind of unbelievable or corny and it goes really, really well. I think you’re right.

The turning point was that doll, because she had said something earlier on about how that. It was like her salvation through her most difficult time of her recovery after this horrible incident. And so the death of her dog was sort of the catalyst for just, just that last little straw that put her over the edge, you know?

Right. Yeah. Oh God, just so amazing. So good bothered the hell out of me. It’s going to bother me for days, because like you said earlier, we said it earlier, this kind of thing could happen. And does these, you know, variations of this. People make, what I’m saying is just young people don’t know any better or just people who don’t know any better, make stupid decisions, do unnecessary things that end up turning out very, very badly, more tragic than they could ever be.

So, I mean, it’s a horror movie for sure. Psychological horror movie. It’s a tragedy. 

Craig: It is. It is. It’s like a Greek tragedy 

Todd: is where nobody wins. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, thank you. W we said it was Simon Wright who, uh, requested this. Thank you. This was an excellent request. Uh, we may or may not have gotten around to doing it anyway, but thank you for bringing it to our attention.

And like I said, it’s a difficult movie to recommend, but if you are, if you’re emotionally prepared, it is an excellent movie. And these filmmakers, you know, if, if they do something else. I’ll make sure I’m in a reasonable state of mind, but I’ll watch it because they are very. Very talented. So, uh, I guess that’s, that’s, that’s my take on, like, if you’re emotionally fragile, please do not watch this movie because it might mess you up.

Like, I don’t consider myself at least at this very moment in my life. I don’t consider myself particularly emotionally fragile, but it, like you said, it messed me up for a while. Like it’s stuck with me for the whole rest of the day and it was tough, you know, I’ve slept on it now and I feel 

Todd: better. I’m kind of glad we’re done talking about it.

So I don’t have to think about it and contemplated. All right. We’ll do some goofy, goofy, stupid Santa Claus ax murderer movie 

Craig: next week. It’s like a plan. Sounds like a plan. Oh yeah. Mary. Yeah.

Todd: All right. Well, happy holidays to everybody. And thank you so much again, Simon for requesting this movie. If you have a request, please send it to us online. You can just Google us to guys on chainsaw podcast. Find our Twitter, feed our Facebook page, our website, and leave us a message. Any one of those places, let us know what you thought of this movie and what other films you’d like us to see in the future.

Please share this podcast with a friend until next 

Craig: time. I’m Todd and I’m great 

Todd: with two guys and a chainsaw.