2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

A few of our Patrons recommended this stunning and surprising film which is directed by AND stars Bill Paxton, one of our favorite actors. Get ready for a ride that will keep you on the edge of your seat and guessing the entire time. We really enjoyed discussing Frailty. Have a listen!

Frailty ()

Ep 299, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig

Todd: Well, today’s movie comes to you via request from a few of our patrons. This is a big shout out to Dave and Jessica who requested Frailty, the 2001 Bill Paxton starring and directed film. Um, what a great idea, because, uh, I know of this movie, I did watch it once before I remembered it being pretty freaky and pretty quick.

And I didn’t really think of it as a horror movie at the time. I, I just remembered thinking of it as like a crime type film, but once I watched it the second time, definitely classifies as a horror movie, really enjoyed it this time around. I probably watched this around the time it came out, but on video and I think this is the only film that bill Paxton has directed.

Am I right about that? 

Craig: I think so. I mean, uh, when he was done with this one in the, the director’s commentary, he said that he hoped that he would have the opportunity to direct again. I think that he did, which is unfortunate. Cause I think he did a really good job. I I’m typically skeptical when people, um, direct themselves, it always kind of feels like a vanity project, but this didn’t, you know, his, his, his character is pivotal.

I mean, he’s, he’s a main character. I he’s not the main character. And I thought just based on what I’ve read, it sounded like, um, he was a pretty easy director to work for and it, it just seems, uh, his performance seems natural. I know there’s one scene in particular. He felt that he maybe went a little bit over the top, but it, I didn’t think so, but I always enjoy watching bill Paxton.

I think he’s a really good actor. And, uh, as far as directing goes this season, Perfectly competent to me. Um, especially considering, you know, they shot it on a pretty low budget and, uh, you know, it was his first time behind the camera, but the man had an extensive career, you know, in front of the camera.

So it’s not like he was completely green. But, um, yeah, no, he did it. I didn’t realize that he directed it until I watched it this time when I pulled up the IMDP page and I saw that he directed it. I’m like, dang, we should have done this for our bill. Paxton tribute when he passed. Well, I didn’t even didn’t even occur to me 

Todd: again.

The reason I think I passed over was because I really wasn’t thinking of it in my head as a horror. You know, but I mean, horror, what is it? Right. It’s just horrible things happening. Really. We’ve done a lot of movies where it’s, you know, it could actually happen in real life. There’s nothing supernatural about it.

One thing I really liked about this movie was just how unpredictable it was. Like, I feel like just when you think, you know, where it might be going, it, it throws a little twist in there, or at least it throws enough doubt in there. And there’s always a carrot of doubt dangling in front of you for this movie that, uh, it’s.

It just had me grip. Really pretty much from the opening scene. I have to say, uh, just, it’s just a big mystery. What’s going on? What’s this character, what are these characters? Motivations? The story is a story more or less told in flashback, but then it brings us into the modern day. And you’re kind of wondering how is this all going to wrap up?

I think quite unpredictable. I remember being 

Craig: very surprised the first time, and this is going to sound stupid, but I remember. Being surprised at being surprised. Um, I didn’t see the twist at the end coming and in watching it. I think this is probably the third time I’ve seen this because I saw it like you soon after it came out.

And then one of our big box video stores here in my town. Went out of business and sold everything at ridiculously low prices. And I bought it for like a buck or something and watched it again. It is good. It’s good at building suspense. It’s good at casting doubt and suspicion. And then the end surprised me.

And, uh, I guess there was. Choices that were made that kind of prolonged the suspense. I think originally some things were intended to be revealed much earlier. Paxton got advice from another famous director. I don’t remember if it was James Cameron, James Cameron, James Cameron told him, you know, you need this suspense.

You need people to be questioning things. And you need them on the side of certain characters, if you want the ending to be effective. And I think that that advice was spot on, uh, and it really worked for me. Paxton said that. Intended the movie to be a movie that you would want to watch and would enjoy watching multiple times.

He wanted that surprise the first time around, but then he wanted you to also have the satisfaction of knowing the twist and going back and watching, finding new clues and things that suggested. I think that makes sense. I think that you do really want to watch this movie more than. At least twice, it feels like a completely different experience when you know how things eventually play out.

Watching it again. It’s interesting. I do have to say that I’m a little bit of the cyst because I knew what was going to happen. Obviously a little bit of the suspense was lost, so it wasn’t quite as exciting the second time, but I’m still, still very interest. 

Todd: I love it. When movies drop clues, I don’t want the clues to be too obvious.

You know, you want to find that right. Mystery level balance, but this movie definitely drops hints. And as a guy who went back to watch it and generally remembered how it went, but I did not remember the ultimate sort of conclusion and explanation behind everything. So I was still guessing through the movie, even though I generally knew what was going to happen.

I was on the lookout and kind of relishing these clues. They were just some very poignant words that are said and moments and things that are just big flashing red signs, especially once you’ve seen it a second time. But also I just thought that the care with which the movie was made it’s it takes its time.

It’s a slow, I mean, it’s a slow burn, but it’s a slow. Ben’s Filburn the cinematography is gorgeous and not pretentious, but still very thoughtful. And there’s a lot of meaning I think, imbued in the framing of the scenes and the way certain things are shot. It’s just very satisfying. Movie as art, you know, where somebody is just not pointing the camera around and whipping it around and, and, and trying to be super stylized or whatever, but just, it has a style that is really impressive for a first-time filmmaker.

You know, he is, this is not his first foray into, into the film world, you know? I mean, so, uh, it’s not like bill Paxon, you know, graduated from high school and cobbled some money together to make this first movie. Right. But you can see that he’s learned the lessons from all the projects that he’s been in and really brought it all in here.

And I’m quite surprised actually, that he didn’t get a chance to do anything after this. 

Craig: And he worked so closely with so many esteemed directors before. So you know, that he had to have picked things up along the way. And, um, I think another reason that this movie that the suspense works so well is because the stakes senior really high it’s scary, uh, especially, you know, in, in a lot of ways too.

Um, we talked about how it’s got elements of crime drama, which it certainly does. And I liked those elements of it, but it’s also a family drama. I was really invested in these. Characters, um, it’s center, it centers around a father, a widowed father, and his two young sons. And I was invested in their relationship and as is typically the case in real life, their relationship is very it’s nuanced.

Um, it’s complicated and, and confusing. And I think that’s, I think that’s very true. To 

Todd: life. It feels real and it’s very sincerely played by two very talented child actors, I think. Yeah. Matt O’Leary, uh, he’s been in a lot of stuff actually since this movie, um, this wasn’t his first film, but it was only his third.

And then, uh, Jeremy something. Uh, who I believe was in the Peter pan from 2003. And it’s been an right. And this was his first film. He was the young boy, youngest boy, Adam, in, in this movie. Yeah. Their performances as well. Very convincing. 

Craig: Yeah. Especially Maddow Leary who plays young Fenton. I mean, he carries much of the weight of this movie on his shoulders.

Uh, and he does. Uh, in a very skillful way for an actor. So 

Todd: young he’s, I mean, and then since that needs, he has like 49 credits to his name. He’s been in the couple of spy kids movies. And then as a, as an adult now, like the agents of shield TV series and, um, a number of, uh, of films and stuff. So I on TV and TV.

So, uh, he’s got a, an ongoing career where he has three or four projects in the works at any given time during the. So if the movie did well, did him well, for sure. Well, it starts out in the, Souq such a classic way, right? It’s this very dark and stormy rainy night. And this guy just shows up at an FBI office who’s he says.

This is Fenton Meeks and he comes in and powers booth is the FBI agent that he comes to see. He wants to see this guy who has been assigned to the gods hands killer case, um, which is sort of a serial killer unsolved serial killer series of murders. Uh, and he basically just sits down and says, I know who did it.

And it was my brother. Right. And powers booth, uh, is a very recognizable face. Just a ton of stuff. And I love this guy, but he’s always this sort of stern, either sort of cowboy rugged dude, or once again, this, um, high level, rough and tumbled kind of detective or that kind of thing. He was also in the agents of shield TV series, Gideon Malik.

In fact, he had sadly. He ended up bill Paxton died in 2017. Uh, both of 

Craig: them. Yeah. And they had worked together before and were good friends. I think they met on tombstone and became good friends and I love 

Todd: tombstone. Oh, 

Craig: it was a great movie. I think Paxton really admired him as an actor. And so, you know, was pleased to work with.

On this adult, Fenton is played by Matthew McConaughey, a young, very handsome Matthew McConaughey in, I mean, this was, he, he had done some other things. I think his star was already rising at this point, but young, I mean, this was over 20 years ago, so it doesn’t feel like it like, isn’t that God we’re so old.

I can’t believe that this movie is over 20 years. I couldn’t believe it. I feel like that’s possible. And it doesn’t, it, it feels like it could have been made yesterday. I mean, that’s how good it looks. 

Todd: It’s not really dated at all. I mean, of course, most of the movies and flashbacks, so that, that helps as well, as soon as they sit and they talk and he mentioned this, he says that his brother, he, again, he’s talking, but then we get to see this visually.

And sometimes a narration comes in, oftentimes the movies just playing out in flashback, but he says, uh, just before he came over, you know, his brother had called him and had said, The demons are taking over the world and, uh, you need to take me to the rose garden, like you promised. And then, um, he shot himself in the head.

This would be Adam, of course. The agent, uh, what’s his name? The FBI agent was Wesley. Wesley. Yeah, that’s right. Wesley says, oh, come on. He’s very skeptical. He’s extremely skeptical and says, well, how do you know that he killed these people? And he says, well, it, it all goes back to the summer of 1979. Uh, and then we get them as children.

Uh, and then the story kind of unfolds, but 

Craig: just before that Wesley calls the Thurman Sheriff’s department and, and speaks with, I guess, a receptionist who confirms what Fenton said, he’s, he’s like, oh yeah, that Fenton, it almost sounds like he’s kind of the town troublemaker, but they’re not really particularly concerned about it.

And he’s like, yeah, he’s stolen ambulance and his brother’s body. So the story gets confirmed and the agent comes back in and says, you know, they said that. They’re not interested in pressing charges. They just want you to return the ambulance and that kind of stuff. But basically, um, this woman confirms what Fenton has said.

And so. He’s willing to listen to this story and you’re right. Then we jumped back to the summer of 1979. And these cute boys. I mean, they’re both just, I don’t know how old, 12 and 10 maybe roundabouts young and they’re cute. And they’re just, they’re walking home from school, I think. And Adam is singing like a religious song.

I used to sing back in Catholic school. Yeah. The joy judge, judge, judge down in my heart. This is supposed to say where I don’t want to sing that dumb song. You don’t have to say, just say where. All right, where not now. I’ll point to you. When it’s time. I got to Georgia, Georgia, Georgia, down in my heart.

Dani and my heart, where down in my heart, I got the Georgia Georgia down in my heart, Tuesday, Fenton, you know, through his narration explains that, uh, their town, uh, Thurman, Texas, this all takes place in Texas. Uh, all of the central actors are Texas born. He explains that their town has. Public rose garden and they live in the house directly behind it.

The house was originally built for the garden keeper, but his dad got it on auction for really cheap. And, uh, they lived there. The, the mother passed away in childbirth with the second kid. So it’s just the three of them. And the dad is a mechanic and we only get to kind of see before. Strange things start happening.

We only get a glimpse of their life, but it seems nice. It seems like a nice life. You know, a dad works hard. He seems like a caring, loving dad, the boys, um, Fenton, especially because he’s the older one seemed to kinda help take care of things. Fenton makes dinner it’s on the table every day. When dad gets home from work, they all sit and have dinner together.

It seems like a really nice dynamic. It really does. So then when things get thrown into chaos, You kind of, you feel bad, you know, every, everything was, everything seemed to be going okay. And then all of a sudden they just get 

Todd: hit with this bomb. Yeah. They’re, they’re just laying in bed, you know, sleeping and dad comes in and wakes them up and says, boys, boys, and they’re worried what, what what’s going on.

What’s going on. It’s said there’s something very important. I need to tell you something just happened. Um, and he says that he got a vision. Angel God spoke to him through this angel. And there’s a little flashback where he’s looking from his bed at some of his, uh, trophies, I guess, the across the way.

And, uh, one of them has an angel like figure on the top of it and it kind of glows and he’s looking at it anyway. And he says, end of the world is 

Craig: coming. It’s near. The angel showed me there are demons among us. The devil is released in for the final battle it’s being fought right now. But nobody knows it except us and others like us.

I’m scared. There’s nothing to be afraid of. Tiger. We’ve been chosen by God. He will protect us. He’s given us special jobs to do. We don’t fear these demons. We destroy them. We pick them up one by one and we pitch them out of this world. That’s God’s purposeful. The angel called us God’s hands. So we’re like superheroes.

That’s right. We’re a family of superheroes are going to help save the world. My dad, that doesn’t make any sense. I know it sounds that way, son, but it’s the truth. 

Todd: Nobody else can see them or identify them. And God is going to send them three weapons to help in the process. And they can’t tell anyone.

About their task and he is absolutely sincere. Uh, 

Craig: Calm like, this is just, this has happened. And, and this is what we have to do now. And, uh, initially this was shot where all three of them were sitting on the same bed, but they changed it so that Fenton and Adam were both in their own bed and they shot it from two different perspectives.

One pointing at Adam and dad. On the bed, by the way, dad’s never given a name. He’s just dad throughout on, on Adam’s bed. And then one pointing at Fenton on his bed. And as they’re talking, both the cameras pull out and, and they, I wouldn’t have noticed this, but once it was explained to me, I was like, wow, that is so clever because it, it immediately shows.

That they’re being pulled apart that they’re separating because Adam is very young. And that’s why I say the family dynamic is so interesting because being so young, Adam just is on board. He just believes it. You know, if dad says it, it must be true. Fenton’s a little older and more skeptical. And so from the very beginning that Fenton’s skepticism along with dad’s.

What seems like fanaticism. Starts to pull them apart. And there, there is a rift then that continues to widen. Um, you’re out the rest of the, I mean, 

Todd: Fenton is almost downright terrified, you know, at this prospect. I mean, can you imagine that, you know of, uh, I have, I have some crazy relatives, you know what I mean?

But if somebody came to me with. Then I would definitely be disturbed and he’s a kid. So he’s also in, not in a position of power. He’s not appear. They don’t, they don’t have a mom to go to. Like you said, it’s sort of going to be dad and Adam on one side and fentanyl. Oh, my God, dad is crazy and he’s putting forward this fantastic story and something bad is going to come of it.

And he just sees all this right away and that’s impressive, but you know, what can he really do? Right. 

Craig: I think that this was intentional. Yeah. I think that Paxton and the writers want us to sympathize with Fenton. I think they want us to be in Fenton shoes because you know, us, we being. My first thought if this happened, if my dad came to me, my first thought would be, he’s lost it.

My dad has lost it. And like you said, when he’s a kid, that’s an even scarier prospect because 

Todd: he’s your provider. 

Craig: He’s, he’s your dad, what are you going to do? And it’s, you know, and he’s got this inner conflict where he knows that he should tell somebody. But who is he going to tell? And regardless of who he tells, nobody’s going to believe him, that is always a conflict in a movie where you’ve got kids and adults, you know, adults, adults believe other adults, or they tend to over kids, especially if it’s something this big that’s 

Todd: true.

Well, and it’s a dat, you know, I mean also like dad is off his rocker, like he’s like, he’s thinking dad is mentally ill, right? You know, it’s not like he’s running out, going crazy and you know, he’s going to start causing havoc. I mean, that’s an easier thing to kind of like run around and, and convince people or to be like, so oppositional, like dad, like this is no, you know, but he just kind of knows that his dad.

So convinced in so deep that there’s even nothing he can say to him, that’s going to fix this. He’s an adult. He’s the father. And he’s absolutely sincere about this, which just leads him to believe. Maybe dad, maybe dad is wrong in the head, which is something he says to Adam A. Little bit later. And also something he says directly to dad at one.

Dad is driving down the way. And we get a little bit of voiceover here where he says, eventually dad found his three weapons and brought them home. Dad’s driving down the highway. Well, not the highway, the dirt country roads, the highways. And he looks, and he sees a barn out in the field. That has a sort of beam of light coming into it from the sky.

And so he’s intrigued and he pulls over and he comes in and walks into this kind of broken down barn. And they’re right directly under the beam of light is a post and an ax stuck in the post that has the word Otis written on it. And a pair of. I mean, it looks like heaven sent, right? Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

And so he picks those up and brings that home and explains that this is, these are the first weapons and he says that God gave him a vision, that he would be able to lay his hands. Oh on the people who are really demons to be able to expose their true form to him and, uh, speculates. That must be what the gloves are for.

Bring them back to the house with the gloves and then take the gloves off, lay hands on them and reveal their true reform. And then later he comes home with a little bundle and opens it up and it’s a lead. Which is so unceremonious, like I do still wonder, like where the hell did he, we don’t really learn.

Do we like where he got the lead pipe, how that was like, revealed to him. And then he said, God is going to send us a list of the first seven demons really soon. And that, of course, Fenton is sort of freaking out about this because he realizes his dad is going to kill people. And so he’s a little concerned.

I think he, he talks to dad, right? He’s got a moment where they’re sitting in the, in the kitchen and he’s talking to dad and I know 

Craig: you’ve had some trouble, Justin, everything has happened this week. I’m sorry, but God has willed this and we must obey God. Maybe just trained it. I didn’t dream it. I wouldn’t make up something like that sign.

Maybe, maybe, maybe you’re not right in the head.

You’ll see that 

Todd: he’s reaching out a little bit, trying to convince his brother. Maybe think this don’t be so be a little more skeptical towards that and trying to kind of poke it down a little bit to see if he can get through to that. But the thing that sells this movie, so. Is that bill Paxton is absolutely sincere through the whole thing.

You look into his eyes and there’s never a doubt in your mind that this calm, cool collected guy, 100%. Believes this and he’s patient about it. And he’s kind about it with his son. 

Craig: And he’s not erratic aside from the things that he’s saying sounding crazy. He’s not acting crazy. It would be very difficult.

I mean, I can’t imagine, I can’t imagine being in this kid’s, uh, position. It didn’t occur to me, but he says, God will be sending the list of the first seven demons soon. And I remember thinking, well that’s okay. So you’re going to be getting them seven at a time. Well, I guess ultimately that’s significant because in present day, the God’s hand killer has killed all these people.

They found remains of the first victim. With a note, but in that first note, it said you won’t be finding any more remains because I want to keep them. And they’ve since found five more notes. So there have been six victims thus far. At that point, which becomes significant later. 

Todd: Exactly. It’s so cool. Of course we don’t find out about this until later as well, but yeah, it’s so interesting.

Right. So then Vinton through the voiceover says eventually dad, you know, had his vision and here’s dad and his job as a mechanic underneath the car, looking up at the underside of the car and all the pipes and things. There’s sparks flying behind him and everything from his, his, a colleague who’s behind him working on something.

And then he just looks at the undercarriage of the car as he’s working on it and he just stops and we get this sort of, yeah, late nineties, early two thousands of morphing. Where all of those little tubes and bits and things under their morph into the top of a chapel and this angel rides down with a flaming sword towards him.

And he’s just staring at this angel who I guess was like the props guy or something actually. And, uh, and yeah, and then he gets his vision and now he’s got his list of, of seven. And at this point, fentanyl. Once he sees dad’s got a list. He’s like he needs to do something 

Craig: well. And he says, dad shows him the list.

And he says, These are the names of people. And his dad says, well, they’re going to look like people, but they’re not. And, and he’s insistent about that throughout. They are not killing people. They are not killing people. They are destroying 

Todd: demons. Right. And demons not killing anything. Yeah. Right. And were you thinking like I was, I was like, where did you get that list from where those people come from?

Right. Are they people, he knows that he has a vendetta against her. They’re going to be people in their circle. Like, what is it? Anyway, what’s kind of neat too, is that they’re sitting around the table at dinner time and Adam runs in and he says, dad, dad, God talked to me too. And he gave me a list and he hands his dad.

This. That he’s made on a piece of paper and he’s like this kid, isn’t he the one who messing with you at school, you know? And he’s like, yeah. He says son, and again, like super patient, like he’s just teaching your lesson, rational, everything like that. He’s like, you know, God, didn’t give you this list. This is just a list you made up, right.

This isn’t how this works. I have the real list. Surely, someday in the future, God is going to come down to you. But for now, you know, it’s not right. We’re destroying demons. These people aren’t demons on. No dad. You’re right. You’re right. You’re right. That’s fine. Son. Just teaching them a nice little lesson.

It’s a really good 

Craig: scene. Yeah. At this point, Fenton feels like he has to put, he has to put a stop to it somehow, but he doesn’t know how. And so he tells Adam that they may have to run away, but Adam doesn’t want to, he doesn’t want to leave his dad. Um, and, and that’s when dad brings home the first demon, uh, who is.

A nurse and she’s she’s bound. Uh, her arms and legs are, are bound and he carries her like, you know, wrapped in a tarp or a blanket or something, and any, he throws her down on the ground to go into the shed. And that’s when the boys come out and she, you know, it’s, it’s just a woman. Um, and, and her eye makeup is, is smeared from crying.

And, and we see briefly that he. I met her at her front door as she was coming out, uh, for work. And he asked her name w I mean, he said her name and she said, yeah. And he knocked her out and, uh, he’s brought her here and she’s terrified. The boys are scared too, obviously. But then once he takes her in the shed, gosh, I just thought this was so neat too.

And it just, I didn’t know what to make of it. Dad takes off his gloves and he touches her. And he has an immediate and severe reaction. I don’t know. I mean, it’s, it feels like a visceral thing. Like he’s, he’s kind of riving in agony a little bit, kind of a seizure 

Todd: type thing. Yeah. But 

Craig: it seems like the woman has a reaction to like, she reacts to his touch.

Now. It very easily. Could be explained that she’s just terrified. Um, and, and is, is recoiling at the touch of this man who has attacked her and who knows what he’s going to do to her, but then, and they also, you know, the, the, the camera shakes it it’s, it’s all. It’s all very unsettling and you just don’t know what to make of it because in my head, in my rational head, I’m thinking, it just doesn’t make sense.

You know, I guess this scene seeing this woman in distress was so upsetting to some members of the test audience that they got up and walked out. I get it like it is distressing to see this woman in. And I 

Todd: think also probably piled on top of that because we do see, you know, people bound and gagged and you know, that bad things are gonna happen to them in even, you know, a James Bond film or something.

But in this case, it’s right there in front of those. And, you know, what’s gonna happen and he’s involving his children in this. It’s pretty upsetting. And so, you know, after the boys watched this, they literally just standing there watching this. And what I like about this movie is it’s not gory at all.

All of the violence does happen off screen. There’s not even a splash of blood or anything like that. Kind of thank God really. It, I mean, it almost might’ve wandered into cheesy territory, you know, if it, uh, if it had, but yeah, he, he raises his ax and takes it down on her, right there in front of the. It’s like you boys need to see this.

Cause this is our duty. You know, this is what we’ve been tasked with doing. And then, you know, it flashes back to the present and the detective is like, is that really true? Your dad murdered this woman in front of you guys. And he’s like, yep. Uh, and then we buried her in the rose garden and there we are in the rose garden.

They’re digging, you know, he’s digging the pit. The boys are there and Fenton is entirely. Upset about it. And dad is trying to comfort him again, very patiently. Don’t cry for 

Craig: her when she wasn’t human. You see that? When I touched her dad

killed her. I didn’t kill her son. I destroyed her. She used to do.

No, I wasn’t so sure I can do it myself. I mean, she looked like a woman to me too, but after I touched her, all I could see was the evil and I had to do it. I’m sorry. You didn’t see to you will next time you to do it again. This is our job now. Got to accept that again. Like it’s just the writing of the story is just so brilliant because a little kid would say that.

Yeah, I saw it. I saw it, you know, like, and maybe even a little kid would want to see. Because they would want their dad’s actions to be justified. It’s just really 

Todd: clever. It’s super clever. And, and, and yet they don’t give you quite enough information yet. Some more information comes later, which is so cool.

How this has parceled out 

Craig: well and a little details. I mean, gee, it’s hard to hit everything that I think is significant because some things are just dropped or said so casually. Um, Fenton tells his dad, I, you, you can’t do this. I have to put a stop to it all. I’ll tell someone. And dad says, if you tell someone, someone will die.

That’s what God told me that comes into play later. Then back in modern day, um, Finland tells Wesley that he thinks that all of the bodies that they are currently looking for are buried in the rose garden. So, uh, Wesley. Throws him, a pair of handcuffs says, put these on yourself. You put some in the back of a police car and they start heading there.

And, and the rest of their conversation happens on this drive. 

Todd: And I love this conversation too. I mean, it’s, it’s so classic Hollywood. I mean, uh, you know, they’re driving in the dark and, you know, the agents like got the stone face on look and in the back as Wesley kind of staring out, I’m sorry, is, um, Fenton.

Staring out the window and talking, but the age of Wesley says, I think there’s something you’re not telling me. You are hiding something from me and a fence as well. What, what do you think that is? And he is like, I don’t know. You keep talking and I’ll probably figure it out. 

Craig: Yeah. Fintan also asked Wesley about his mother, which he had already brought up his mother previously.

And so at this point when he brought her up again, I’m like, what is going on? Yeah. Um, but Wesley says that his mother was murdered 

Todd: three days before this picture on his desk was taken. Yeah. And then, yeah, Fenton, speculates, maybe that’s why you’re so into, um, you know, this is why you’re a detective now is while you’re in the FBI.

Craig: Right. And why you’re so invested in this case because, uh, his mother’s murderer was never apprehended. So he speculates, maybe you’re so invested in finding this guy. Because they never found the guy that killed your mom. Um, and that’s it, then it drops and they don’t talk about it. 

Todd: And then we’re back in the, in the past.

And, uh, the kids, uh, come home from school and dad has a van all of a sudden, well, the Fenton does say, look, some time passed like a month or two passed. And I thought maybe that was going to be the end of it. 

Craig: Right. Maybe it was just a horrible nightmare 

Todd: and it’s over. Yeah. Which is also kind of a neat little motif, right?

Like there, there they’re these shots of him in the, in school kind of like falling asleep. It was like shades of nightmare on Elm street in a way. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he’s like falling asleep and it’s just so neat how the visual matches what he’s saying. Like this kid just hoped that this was a nightmare and it would be done.

He’s disappointed. And then nothing happens for a while after the woman’s married, murdered in the knee, she kind of thinks that might be the case again, but then he comes home and it’s just like, boom, Nope, dad’s got his list in front of him again. And, uh, one of the other kids at school had said, Hey, why don’t you come over to my house or sleep over?

Or. We’re going to wrap somebody’s house. I’m not sure. I TPA, I guess, is what he made. And he says, I’ll have to ask my dad. And he’s like, oh, I’ll have my mom call your dad. And he’s like, yeah, that’s cool. But, but they come home and sees dad with this van and he’s got this list in front of him again. And he says, oh, by the way, your friend’s mom called and said, uh, I told her no, because we’ve got some work to do in the.

And that’s like terrifying of course, for Fenton. Cause he knows what that means. And so they drive out to get to the next guy on the list, which is this sort of older balding, seemingly nice man who, uh, is going into the grocery store. And they pull out into the parking lot across there with their van 

Craig: and they wait well and it’s midday and Fenton’s like, dad, it’s the middle of the day.

Somebody’s going to see us. And he says, no, God told me that he would make us invisible. Nobody will. That while we’re doing our work, nobody will see us crazy. He forces Fenton to help him get this guy. You know, the Fenton pretends that his puppy is stuck under the guy’s car or something. And the guy bins down to help him and dad attacks him from the back.

And again, midday in a grocery store, parking lot. Apparently nobody does see them. And you know, again, dad kills the old guy in the ax or the shed after laying his hands on him and having the same reaction. And again, it looked to me like the old guy had a reaction to being touched as well. Yeah. 

Todd: And right after he gets, he pulls his hand off and he kind of says to him, he says, did you think that nobody would remember what you did?

Or did you think that nobody would know what. Uh, forgot about that, huh? Which is a line that comes up later in the movie. 

Craig: Yeah. And he says he’s upset because Adams again says that he saw, but Fenton’s still didn’t and his dad is upset. He doesn’t understand why Fenton doesn’t see. And the next scene we see is the morning dad comes into the boys’ bedroom and wakes up Fenton and says, don’t wake up, Adam.

I asked the angel to visit you, but instead he visited me. They told me something. I don’t want to believe what doesn’t matter because together you and I are going to prove him wrong. You just don’t have any faith. That’s why you can’t see the truth. We’re going to change. 

Todd: Oh, God, that is so ominous. Right?

Cause I mean, I totally predicted what he was talking about. Right. Like, I mean, it’s pretty 

Craig: obvious. Well, and, and how scare, you know, whether you believe that there’s something going on or not for the dad to say the angel told me something about you that I don’t want to believe well, whether he wants to believe it or not.

Now that idea is in his mind and. Whether he’s crazy or whether he’s not. He now has this idea about Fenton, which is scary, but he doesn’t want to believe it. He thinks that he can establish Fenton’s faith, I guess. And so he makes Fenton, he takes him out in the yard and handsome the shovel and says, I want you to dig a hole.

And it, and he says it has to be 10 feet deep and 15 feet 

Todd: square. It’s like a pool. It’s like a swimming pool sized hole. It’s like, holy crap. 

Craig: Yeah. And he’s like, I want to have done by the time I get home from work. And Fenton’s like, dad, I can’t do that. And he says, pray. That is, that is insane. But I also, I also love this part because Fintan.

In his narration says he could make me dig that hole, but he couldn’t make me pray. I would not pray. I hated God. Yes, it’s so relatable. You know, you would hate God or the idea of God that died. Is forcing on him. Oh God. 

Todd: Well, a couple of times in here, Fenton is talking to Adam, trying to convince him to leave, but he won’t and fenced in, in the narration saying that he himself considered leaving, but he just couldn’t leave his brother behind.

So he feels kind of stuck. And east got blisters on his fingers and dads as well. You can take a break, but you really got to wear those gloves, but he refuses to wear gloves. And then the line I absolutely love from this movie when he’s finished, he says a topi five day. Working, you know, day and night to finally dig this hole.

He was like, he’s determined to do it anyway. Right? Actually 

Craig: it was six days, which I thought was really clever because then on the seventh day he rested, 

Todd: well, he said after maybe it was six, including the first one. Cause he said it’s like after five or six days, that hole was as dark and as deep as my hatred for dad’s guy.

It was such a good line. I had to write it down. You usually write lines down and I don’t, but I had to write that and there are 

Craig: lots of good ones. And, uh, then, you know, they, they reinforce it a little bit. Dad tells them that God said that it will hold, uh, and it does. And, and they, they pull a shed over it.

So it’s basically a seller, but Fenton says, I knew that we were building. Uh, dungeon. Um, and that’s basically what it is. Uh, and so the very next night dad brings home like this teenage boy, um, and tries to make Fenton kill him, but Fenton runs and he runs to the police and, and exactly what he feared happens.

This sheriff doesn’t believe him. Um, and he just takes him back home. To dad and, you know, sits down and talks with dad. Oh, you know, they go through puberty and all of a sudden they hate us, but you know, my boy and I got through it, you’ll, you’ll get through it. And also 

Todd: didn’t you feel the way the scene played out?

I kind of want. After a little bit, the sheriff maybe was getting curious. And, and I did wonder if maybe this was a bit of a ruse to convince the father to sh to let him check things out. I don’t know. I, it might not have been the case, but I felt that the way this was acted and the way the scene was laid out, it was very intense.

I thought variant. 

Craig: I thought that dad was intentionally giving Fenton a choice because, because, uh, the sheriff says, well, maybe we should, maybe we should just check the seller just to appease him or whatever. And dad says, well, if it must be done, I guess it must be done. And then he looks at Fenton and says, Must it be done and Fenton takes him down there.

Todd: So ominous the way he says it. Right. What do you think kiddo does it have to be done? He’s not talking about checking out the seller. Right? 

Craig: Right. And so the kid, uh, takes the, uh, the cop down there, but the teenager isn’t down there anymore and Fenton says. Uh, I can show you where they’re buried and the cop looks a little bit skeptical, but maybe like he’s starting to think, uh, maybe he’s starting to believe and he’s the cop starts to walk up the steps then comes flying back down.

Um, because dad is, he asked him, right? Yeah. Like in the chest, killed him and. Dad had said earlier, if you tell someone will die and he’s upset because he says Fenton, I have never killed anything in my entire life. And you made me do this. 

Todd: This man is dead because of you. He’s, dad’s practically crying.

He’s that upset. And Fenton’s like, I’ve seen you kill many people. It’s like, no, those were demons that were destroyed. This is a man who was killed. And it’s because of you. I told you this would happen. And because of you, this man is dead. 

Craig: Yeah. And, and he says, the angel told me you were a demon. And so he locks him in the cellar.

And they, there are parts of this. You really have to suspend your disbelief because supposedly he’s down there for a week with no food. And just with Adam coming in once a day to pour some water through a hole in the floor for him to drink. And after a week, Finally one time, Adam goes to check on him and he’s unresponsive.

So dad opens the door, pulls him out, starts giving him some water, but 

Todd: Fenton tells, you know, Wesley agent Wesley. He says, eventually he, after going down there, I went, you know, you can go crazy. And eventually I did see God and I understood my destiny right at 

Craig: which I. It’s true. Um, I think that he did feel a sense of destiny at this point.

So they pull him out fit and tells dad. He saw God one week later. Dad takes Fenton to get a demon. This guy seems like a really bad guy. Seems I don’t know. He looks like a big, tough motorcycle type guy. He yells obscenity at his girlfriend through the door. He’s he seems like a bad guy. This guy fights back.

Um, but Fenton knocks him out. They go back to the shed and Fenton, uh, dad, hands, Fenton, the ax and Fenton says. I’m ready to fulfill my destiny and he raises the ax, but instead of bringing it down on the demon guy, he plants it right in his dad’s chest. And bill Paxton does a great job here too. You know, he loves.

Surprised and sad. And he falls down and Adam runs to him and right before dad dies, he whispers something in Adam’s ear. Adam looks at Fenton with kind of hatred, um, in his eyes. And then quite 

Todd: suddenly, which was like kind of a jump scare, like grabs the ax and takes out that. Uh, Adam himself can do what Fenton couldn’t, um, he’s motivated and, and you’re like, he’s totally under the spell as well.

Right. And the guy never got saved. Right. So you just never know where this movie was going to go, honestly. Yeah, that was a, 

Craig: that was shocking. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s also just shocking to see it’s small child. In that, in that state of rage, you know, with a weapon like that, like, I mean, that’s just shocking to see period.

I mean, he’s, he’s screams as he races towards the guy, uh, very creepy. And then it cuts back to present day infant and says, so we waited a week and then we went and said, dad never came home from work. And they put out a missing person, you know, thing, but they never found him. So eventually. We were sent to separate orphanages, but before they were separated, you see a scene of the two boys together.

And Fenton says to Adam, if you ever destroy me, promise, you’ll bury me here. And Adam just looks at him and said, I promise to God I’ll bury you here.

Todd: It’s very creepy. And the detectives confused this this way. Well, wait a second. You told me that Adam said that to you. So what, that doesn’t make any sense, how would that make any sense? And he says, well, it would make sense if the man standing in front of you right now is. Yep. And that’s when he confesses that he is not Fenton.

He is actually Adam Matthew McConaughey. He’s been 

Craig: at them all along and he shows, uh, Wesley the graves and he explains, and this is a detail that I had forgotten. He explains that Fenton is the murderer that the guy is looking for. But in fact, uh, Fen. Is a demon and his dad told him that and he believed it, but he couldn’t kill it.

Fenton until God put him on his list. And he had now put him on the list and we see Adam kill Fenton. So apparently the story of quote unquote, Adam killing himself that we saw in the beginning was not true. We see the real Adam Matthew McConaughey walk up behind his brother and his brother is to seated at a desk and he just looks up and says, Adam, doesn’t turn around.

And we see Adam raise the, uh, ax and, and bring it down. And this is when the big reveal comes that we flashback again to all of the times that dad had brought home a demon and laid his hands on. And we see what dad and Adam saw, these people were, if nothing else. Terrible people, murderers and child molesters.

And, um, so I think that what we now are meant to believe is that dad was telling the truth the whole time. This was, this was a divinely inspired mission. Yeah. And 

Todd: yet, even at this moment, I still wondered. Yeah. But maybe this is what dad thought he. I still wasn’t entirely convinced at this point that this was that the movie wasn’t leading me down a wrong road, because it could be what dad thought he said, And not necessarily that these people actually had this in their past.

Yeah, 

Craig: I suppose. I mean, it was very specific, you know, you saw, you saw the nurse laying in bed next to a guy whose throat she had slit and you see the older ball, gentlemen luring a small girl to his car, and then you see him dragging her body out. I thought. And these were the things that originally Paxton was going to.

When they happened in the moment and James Cameron said, don’t show it, save it until the end, because you need people to be with Fenton. You need them to be as skeptical as Fenton is. And I think it was absolutely the right choice. And I really like the reveal here. This is when then Adam, I don’t remember if he brings up Wesley’s mother again, or if he just grabs a hold of Wesley and we get one of these flashbacks.

And we see that it was Wesley who murdered his mother. And we also see that Wesley, the police at some point go to Fenton’s house and we see that, uh, Wesley’s name was the last name on the list. He’s the. Of of these people, I guess. But, uh, he was a demon and Fenton kills him and buried him in the rose garden before Wesley dies.

He says, I’m an FBI agent. They’re going to be looking for me. He says, no, they’re not going to be looking for you. They’re going to be looking for Fenton. And because Fenton really was a murderer who kept his trophies in his basement when they find that they believe that Fenton was the murderer all along.

And then it’s as though they remember. That somebody had come to speak to Wesley the night before he had died or gone missing or whatever, but nobody can remember what he looked like, uh, 

Todd: agent who was in there, who was the only other one there who kind of popped in and said, Hey, you know, before Wesley and, and, um, and a Fenton got too deep in their conversation said, Hey, I’m going to be going home.

Are you sure you don’t need me to stick around? He’s like, no fine. He’s the one who comes back. And he says, honestly, I know it’s crazy, but his he’s just a blur to me. Yeah. He 

Craig: says, I looked right at him. I shook his hand, but I can’t remember what he looked like. And they say, oh, that’s that’s okay. Cause we’ve got surveillance tapes and they start playing M and S and Matthew McConaughey starts to walk into frame.

And then the tape fuzzes. Just over 

Todd: him. Hey, as he’s walking across, it’s like, you know, like VHS tapes would do they fuzz out in certain places, sometimes it’s right there. Kind of following him and I’m just watching this. I’m going, holy shit. This is where the movie is going right now. And they go to fence house.

They find the trophies, all of. And then, um, the agent calls the sheriff, uh, Sheriff’s office, again, talks to the woman again. She’s like, yeah, you can, you can talk to the sheriff he’s here. And he walks into the Sheriff’s office. And guess who the sheriff is? It’s Adam, Adam. Uh, he 

Craig: walks out towards him, the agent that the agent doesn’t recognize him at all.

You 

Todd: think for a second, he might cause there’s like this whole thing, but then he doesn’t and then they walk outside and Adam, and as they go part ways, Adam shakes his head. And he looks at him and he goes, you’re a good man.

Uh, you’re a good man agent hall. He says, and then, uh, agent hall gets in his car and drives off. And the chick from the inside kind of comes out 

Craig: and, and she’s pregnant. And I had also noticed that, uh, Adam was wearing a wedding band now. So I think that this is his wife, um, and. She says is everything okay?

And he says, yes, God’s will has been served. And she says, praise God, and kind of embrace the SIM. I think she’s in on it. Yeah, clearly, clearly. Yeah. That’s she was, you know, when, uh, she got the phone call in the beginning. It was, that was a cover story, you know, she’s totally in on this whole thing, which I thought was clever and creepy, but I don’t know.

I just thought it was a really clever story. And I thought that the reveal was so interesting and, and. It just completely subverted my expectations. It really never occurred to me that maybe God really was talking to dad. You know, maybe an angel really did appear to him that didn’t occur to me. It occurred to me that maybe he was crazy or maybe there was something strange and supernatural going on, but it never occurred to me that no.

Todd: It’s got again, beautifully shot, really interesting on the edge of my seat, the whole time drawn into it, the whole time kept me guessing up to the very end. And then the ending, like you said was not what I expected. I did not expect us to end up becoming a supernatural thing where dad was actually.

Probably actually receiving these visions and then his son is two and presumably he’s going to be, this is, you know, the family legacy, right. Passing it down to his soon to be born kid. And oh my God. So interesting. Right. Yeah. I liked this moment. 

Craig: Yeah. I didn’t notice, but apparently in the very last frame, as it dollies away from Matthew McConaughey and the woman who plays his wife, two young boys go across the screen, either on bicycles or scooters or something.

And they’re played by the actors who play. The brothers as children, Paxton said that he did that intentionally at, you know, almost like almost as though this is all happening in kind of a Twilight zone kind of universe. Um, I didn’t even notice, but clever. He 

Todd: even gave a reason for, you know, that’s kind of a mystery, right?

Why is the name Otis carved onto the ax? And I guess in the commentary he mentioned, well, he mentioned that he came up with the name modus. Apparently he was trying to give some money to a homeless man and the homeless man didn’t want it, his money. So he said, well, can I buy the rights to your name for my movie?

And so, you know, he put, ended up putting the guy’s name on the ax, but he also said he wanted to personalize the acts. Right. I don’t know. That was like also like, as an heirloom, right. That something specific and. Personalized that was passed 

Craig: on. Right. And he kind of wanted it to be a character in and of itself.

I mean, it’s kind of like leather faces, chainsaw, you know, it, it kind of is a character in and of itself and it’s good. You know, this, I, I’m glad that people suggested this. I feel like. Yeah, this has been brought up more than once over the years. Um, but, um, you know, right back to back, we got a couple of requests for it, uh, on our Patrion page.

And I’m glad that we finally got around to it. Heck I think this is one of the, I think we talked about doing this movie, like when we very first started, it was, it was up there. Um, and we just never got around to it. And so here we are. What, 6, 5, 6 years later. It’s about time. 

Todd: Well, thank you guys so much.

And you know, we do have a patron going on right now, and this is one of the benefits that we’ve decided to grant the, those folks who support us on our Patrion page, that we do put out a little poll to that group of the requests that we’ve received, and then they can kind of vote on the next one that comes up.

So we’re really happy to. And a very big shout out to our three newest patrons, Haley Tyler and Roy. Thank you so much for your support. And if you’re willing to support and happy to support this podcast, go out to a patrion.com/chainsaw podcast. Or you can go to our website to guys.red, 40 net.com. And there’s a link there as well.

You get access to an exclusive 90 minute interview as well as many sodas that we’re putting out about random topics and as well. Full on edited version of our phone calls. Um, please share this podcast with a friend that some of the best supports that we can get to help grow our listenership through Facebook and Twitter and, uh, our webpage, they just searched two guys in a chainsaw, hot tasks, and let us know what you thought of this episode and anything else that you would like us to review in the future until next time I’m Tom and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Looking for some old-school horror with a healthy dose of laugh-out-loud comedy? This over-the-top gorefest kicked off a successful – and controversial – horror franchise that we are dipping into for the first time on this show. We had lots of fun talking about Hatchet this week!

Hatchet (2006)

Episode 298, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: We, this week are, or, or today w you know, whenever this gets posted, um, We’re talking about a movie. We, uh, we are just flooded with requests. You know, we have this huge list of requests and we’re getting requests from our patrons, which we very much appreciate. And, you know, with all of that, I thought I’m just going to pick something I want to do.

Todd: You’re going to treat yourself today. A little something for you.

Craig: Uh, honestly we have so many requests that, you know, whatever we decide to do, we usually just have to go through the request list because somebody is usually requested it, but not this one’s true. The reason that, uh, this one came to mind for me is because over the six, seven years we’ve been doing this, we’ve pretty much.

Almost every major horror franchise, but there are just a couple that we haven’t hit yet. And one of those is, uh, the Hatchet franchise we’ve never hit before. And we’ve never even really talked about it very much. No, we haven’t. It crossed my mind in thinking about what we were going to do for today. Um, and I looked it up and it’s easily acceessible, uh, online, you can find it for free on multiple platforms. I watched it on Tubi. Now, if, if you watch on Tubi, um, it’s ad supported, so you have to watch commercials, which is kind of annoying, but I don’t know if I’ve said this before. I may have I subscribe to a bazillion different streaming services and more often than not.

I find myself watching stuff on Tubi of all of, all of the streaming platforms. They have an amazing horror catalog. Like it’s just enormous and, and, you know, mainstream stuff, a lot of stuff you’ve never heard of. And, and granted. A lot of it is crap. Like, uh, I’ll, I’ll put something on. And within the first five minutes, I’ll say, I can’t watch this, but if you can Wade through that stuff, you can find some really interesting stuff on there too.

And there is some, you know, some mainstream, critically acclaimed stuff on there. So there’s my little free advert for Tubi Tubi. If you’re listening. I have Venmo and PayPal just hit me up happy to 

Todd: promote your free service money.

Craig: But this movie is Hatchet from 2006, uh, written and directed by an up-and-coming director named Adam Green, who has done some other stuff. Um, probably. Um, most notable other film is a movie called Frozen, uh, not the Disney princess movie, frozen seeing also lovely. No, we haven’t done Frozen. Have we, have you seen it?

It’s about friends who get trapped. They get trapped on a ski lift. Yeah. It looks cool. And yeah, it is. And, and, you know, I mean, that’s the premise three friends trapped on a ski lift after everybody else leaves and it’s the end of the weekend. So they’re going to be stuck there for God knows how long.

Anyway, I liked that movie too. Maybe we’ll talk about it someday. But beyond that, Adam Green is known mostly for this franchise. There are four films in the franchise. Um, Adam Green wrote, I believe. All of them, except maybe number three. I don’t remember. He directed all of them except for part three. And for part three, he was busy with something else.

And so he chose one of his head. Camera operators, I think from, from the other movies to direct that one, but it’s, it’s a four film franchise we’re talking about the first one, the other ones are interesting and we’ll probably at least touch on those as we go along. But this is, I get the feeling that Adam Green is a horror fan and he’s a fan of eighties slasher movies. And he wanted to make one and he did. And I have no idea. This guy must just have some magic in the way of connections because yeah, I mean, this is one of his first films. I mean, he had done some stuff before that, but nothing, almost nothing. Yeah. And he, he has huge, huge horror icon.

In this movie, I mean, virtually everybody you see in this movie, you are going to recognize from some of, from something and some of them are huge, huge, huge, or horror icon. 

Todd: Yeah. He, uh, moved, I think to Los Angeles while he was developing something called coffee and donuts. It was, um, something that I guess got some interest in the industry.

Uh, it was something that I think was like a stage play or something that he put on. And, uh, there was some interest to develop it for a TV series and he moved to Hollywood, but then, um, things fell through pretty quickly with mergers, between networks and whatnot. And he ended up struggling quite a bit, basically as a page boy, as an assistant, uh, on the sets, he was deejaying somewhere.

He also, he’s also big into heavy metal and play with metal band and has a relationship with the guar folks. He did end up, uh, getting that TV series made like decade later. But in the meantime, he was down to a point where he was like eating, like, I guess while he was deejaying at this club, he was eating people’s leftover food, pulling stuff out of the trash.

I mean, like. Pretty much that desperate and according to him, anyway, he was looking at the horse scene at the time and was kind of disgusted because this is what 2006, this is a, we’re kind of on the heels of the torture porn era. And he was like, everybody’s either interested in torture porn or remakes.

Nobody is doing anything new. And so why don’t I just kind of combine the two things, I’ll take something classic that we like, but instead of making a remake of it, we’ll just make a new one, you know, a new iconic character like Jason Vorhees or Freddy Krueger, and just do an old school type slasher, but in a slightly different way.

And his different way of doing it was injecting the humor into it, like the outright humor. And I read an interview with him where he said that he deliberately packed. Cast with comedians, just because those comedians, they kind of get it. They have the right timing and everything to make their characters believable and interesting.

And whereas the old school slashers, you know, their characters are just kind of throw away. They don’t, they don’t do a lot for character development. He’s like, even though I’m not going to really change that formula much, it’s still going to be five minutes and you’re still waiting for the next person to get killed, you know, but instead I’m going to take that space in between the killings and actually have some.

Interesting funny characters that you kind of actually believe are real people, and maybe you’ll be a little sad that they’re, that they’re debt. And to that, I, I think he succeeded. I really do. I mean, it’s, for me, this is my second time watching the movie. I think that, uh, he pretty much did what he set out to do, and it’s super cool to see all the cameos in there from all these.

People like Cain hotters in there. He plays the villain. It’s out with Robert England, you know, in a boat. I mean, you would just have to think that there was so much interest in the script that he was able to get people on. Like there’s no way he knew he had such deep connections at that time he had connections, but they can’t have been that.

Craig: That trend carries through the rest of the sequels. I don’t think I’ve seen all of them. I know I’ve seen the second one. You know, he just gets these great people from classic horror movies. I know Phyllis or roses in one of them, the girl, I can’t think of her name, but the lady who played the DJ in Texas chainsaw, two a is on one of them.

Caroline, somethings her name. I can’t remember. It continues. He keeps getting these great people, but there are so many, um, in this one, and I do think it had to have had this script somehow must have caught somebody’s attention. And I understand why, because this is a funny, um, I think it’s really funny.

Like the, the dialogue is really quippy. Almost to the point where it could get kind of into eye-roll territory. But for me, it doesn’t, I was smiling and laughing out loud through this whole movie. And a lot of it of course, is the writing, but he’s got some ex. Comedians, like you said in here, comedic actors who have a history, uh, in comedy.

Uh, and, and it just worked really well for me. In addition to that, it’s really kind of a straightforward eighties, slasher, you know, with a backstory and kind of a. Tragic villain slash anti-hero. But at the same time, the, the killer is in a very humorous way. Just kind of stock. Like I, you know, like he’s, he’s this, you know, disfigured Backwoods guy and it just cracks me up every time that he would just from the bottom of the screen.

Pop into the shop, 

Todd: literally just, 

Craig: ah, 

Todd: around talking and then suddenly,

Craig: and he just stands up and shakes his fist and they all scream and run away. Yeah, he slowly pursues them and he just, wherever they are, he just pops up. Oh God, it’s so funny. It’s funny because it’s so typical, but it it’s played straight in those. Other movies and it’s played for the humor here, but it still works as a slasher.

There’s tons of violence. There’s tons of gore green actually had a major, major problem with the NPAA. When he submitted this film, they slapped an NC 17 on it, and he had to keep cutting things in order to get the R, which he eventually did. But by the time that happened, he said that. So much of what he wanted this movie to be was stripped away to the point that it wasn’t even the movie that he wanted to make.

He. I don’t know if it was in a print interview or what, but I saw that he said that everything that I had promised the audience in the teasers, in the posters, all of that was gone. It was, it was stripped away. Um, and he was really disappointed. They did eventually release, um, an unrated DVD or blue. Cut which restored all of the violence.

And you can see that. And it’s only like one additional minute of footage. Um, but, uh, apparently he was really upset by that so much so that when he went to make hatchet too, he’s like, you know what, BNPA, I’m not going to have this movie rated, I’m going to bypass them. I’m going to release an unrelated, uh, unrated.

And he did, and he made a. Deal. He struck a deal with AMC, um, that they were going to show they were going to screen the movie unrated and, uh, as part of some sort of promotion or something. And so it opened in early October within a matter of hours. It started getting pulled from theaters. And within a matter of just, I think three or four days, it was completely in a hundred percent polled from theaters.

Adam Green believes that it was because of pressure from the MPA. Uh, he thinks that they wanted to make an example of him that, uh, if you try to bypass us and released something unrated, it’s going to. And, and he also believed that from that point, moving forward, they were going to have their eye on him and they were going to continue to try to make an example of him.

And he just didn’t understand it. He said, you know, when. Movie came out. It came out at almost exactly the same time as the Hills have eyes, the remake. Um, and you and I have both seen that and that movie is brutal and nasty and violent and disturbing. And he said, and that movie. You know, it was a big studio movie was going to bring in a lot of money.

Um, it got an R no problem, no cuts necessary, but here my stupid little movie with, you know, a guy ripping people’s heads off and he said it doesn’t even make any sense. He’s like, yeah, there’s tons of violence and tons of gore, but it’s dumb. It doesn’t, you know, 

Todd: Plus there’s, it’s a comedy there’s gags and there’s jokes and things throughout it’s supposed to be lighthearted, you know, not like the Hills have eyes, my God.

Craig: Right. Which again, and he said, I’m not dissing those movies is that I love those movies. They’re great movies. I just don’t understand why my little moon. Is getting treated it’s politics, a hundred 

Todd: percent politics. 

Craig: Yeah. Oh, it’s it’s politics and business and bureaucracy. And I know that, you know, Wes Craven, butted heads with the NPAA throughout his career, it’s unfortunate.

And you know, we’ve talked about, Heather asked us about this, uh, in our interview, which you can access via our Patrion account, if you would choose to support us. Um, but we talked about, you know, the movie rating system and is it even legit? Any more. Uh, and, and I think to some extent it’s really not a.

You know, there’s so much content out there in the way that it’s being released, especially through streaming services and online platforms. Um, I don’t know that there’s really any necessity for the MPA anymore TV. 

Todd: Doesn’t go through the MPA and, you know, game of Thrones and all of these multiple hours long epics that you can watch on, on any streaming service.

And every single streaming service has their own exclusive content. There’s more stuff being put out there than the MPA. Even right now. Right. It’s just a different world. It’s a different world. Yeah. 

Craig: It’s yeah, it served its purpose. I just, I think that its time has come, but we’ll see. I mean, it, like you said, it’s industry it’s money.

So I don’t think that they’re going anywhere anytime soon, but. Maybe some time in our lifetime anyway, hatchet. So we open up with two men on a boat and it’s a father and son. The father is played by fucking Freddy Krueger, Robert England, you know, I con of icons in the horror industry and, uh, his son, uh, played by Josh Leonard, who is Josh from the Blair.

Project. And they’re like hunting a Gator. This is all set in new Orleans and it’s, you know, they, they, they play up kind of the Southern new Orleans stereotypes. So these are like buy you type guy. Yeah. And they’re, they’re hunting a Gator and they’re ribbing each other and the dads call it. So on a queer and like, I mean, it’s just, it’s goofy, but it’s, it’s funny.

I mean, it, it, you, you get from the beginning, this is going to be funny. It’s going to be a comedy similar in tone. I would say, even though far more violent, similar in tone to like lake Placid, like it’s a comedy, uh, the, you know, the, the, the, the guy Ainsley, the younger guy is P enough the side of a boat.

Alligator like jumps up and snaps it as Wiener. I mean, it’s just, it’s stupid stuff. They both end up getting killed slaughtered, and you see the sun after the Gator jumps at him and goes off on land and finishes his business. And while he’s doing that, he’s trying to talk to his dad, but his dad.

Responding. When he goes back to the boat, he finds his dad, Robert England, you know, just completely eviscerated guts everywhere. Um, and then he is also slaughtered by an unseen at this point force. Um, but clearly not a Gator. Like he gets, you know, totally ripped up, like just ripped apart and. Smashed into tree trunks and stuff.

It’s very gruesome and violent and bloody as are the rest of the kills in this movie, everything, all of the effects in this movie are practical. They look amazing. Adam Green had a no CGI rule on this production. The only CGI that they used was used to remove like wire. And, and things, uh, none of the effects, uh, are CGI and they look great.

Uh, and that’s the opening scene that sets it up. And then we meet up with our main character. Ben. Uh, played by Joel David Moore. Um, who’s done a lot of stuff. I recognize him. He was in avatar. He’s slated to be in the 400 avatar secret or in production right now. 

Todd: Yeah, it does make me wonder about those SQLs.

Do you think all the actors who were in those have been liked also tied up for the last decade and a half, uh, 

Craig: who knows, who knows? Is there really anybody out there who’s like, oh man, when is that avatar 

Todd: so long for a new one? I want to see from girly with blue people again, 

Craig: please, please. I need four more.

Well, don’t worry folks. 

Todd: Yeah. The trailer for the long promise equal. Finally released recently. I know. 

Craig: And, and, and three, I think three, four and five. In pre production, but that’s another story. Um, we, we then meet, uh, okay. So it’s been in his group of friends. One of whom is played by Adam Green in a non-speaking role, just a drunk friend.

Um, but his best friend Marcus is played by Dionne Richmond. Who’s been in tons of stuff. Ever, we’ll be Rudy’s friend, Kenny from the Cosby show to me. Oh my God. He was so cute and so funny as a little kid. And he still really funny. Um, he was, he was also in, uh, not another teen movie, which is a goofy movie, but really funny.

And he played on purpose, the token black friend and, and commented on it all the time. He is just a really funny guy. And he’s really funny in this movie too, and they’re walking around and it’s new Orleans. And so there’s lots of boobs, you know, it’s, I, I’ve never been to new Orleans. And so I don’t know, you know, I know kind of the whole Marty.

Culture, but like, is that just all the time? Like, I mean, if you’re 

Todd: maybe to a smaller extent, I was there during St. Patrick’s day once, and they had a smaller scale St. Patrick’s day parade beads were thrown and stuff, but there wasn’t much of this going on. Jay, basically a Mardi Gras thing. And by the way, I’ve been to new Orleans many times, and it is my absolute hands down without a doubt far and above my favorite city in the entire USA.

It is so chock-full of history and interesting culture. I mean, the, the blending of the cultures down there is just unique. It is so different. And so cool after hurricane Katrina happened, I was so distraught. The fact that new Orleans might be destroyed. I went down there with a group of college students to help with cleanup, and I will watch any movie that ever takes place in new Orleans, which reminds me, we need to, we need to get the skeleton key on our list.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a really good one, but I love the fact that this movie is set in this environment, even though it moves us into the Bayou, which could very well be. And he woods anywhere at that point, but it’s just cool that, you know, he, he did this, uh, it offers opportunity for humor and some interesting characters that 

Craig: we see as well.

And this movie was one of the last movies shot new Orleans before Katrina, but I know that, you know, post Katrina, they continue. To try to do as much of their production throughout for the rest of the series in new Orleans, just to support the economy. It, like I said, I’ve never, I’ve never been there, but my mom has, and she says that it’s one of her favorite cities too.

She was there pre-Katrina and she said, uh, that she really, really liked it. She wasn’t there during Mardi Gras or anything like that. But she said the only thing that she didn’t liked about it was especially down by bourbon street. The whole place, just reeks a vomit

and maybe

Todd: on the weekends, 

Craig: you know, what, what you see here is, is very stereotypical Mardi Gras type stuff, like women flashing for beads, people, partying, drinking, having a good time. Um, but you know, also puking on the street and blah, blah, blah. Uh, Ben is over it because he’s just gotten dumped by his long-term girlfriend.

And so he’s not into all this partying. And so he says that he wants to go on like a haunted swamp tour because some friends, some friends had told him it would be. 

Todd: It’s a joke that keeps coming up. 

Craig: How was this fun? This place is disgusting. Our hotel room smells like sweaty balls, man. I mean, everybody’s just drunk and looking for a fight.

You, you threw up six times yesterday. How do you even do that? You guys are staying have fun. All right. I’m going to go find something to do by yourself. Dewitt and Robinson told me about this haunted swamp tour thing that they did last year. They said it was amazing. You see all these like floating lights.

All the water. 

Todd: So it’s like all he can talk with everybody. He’s that one geeky guy. He’s like when I went to Vegas with my buddy friends and they were interested in these very serious sort of adult things, and I was like, Hey, I heard like, there’s a new show over at the casino. I want to go see Cirque de Solei.

And they’re like, all right. All right, Todd, you go see certainties. We’re not interested.

Craig: Oh, they missed out, man. Anyway. Um, but so the rest of his friends don’t want to go, but Marcus says that he’ll go with them. I think he kind of feels sorry for me. They’re best friends, whatever they go to, uh, Reverend zombies who do shop to set up this tour it’s closed, but they knock on the door and Reverend zombie answers the door and it’s Tony Todd playing, uh, like a, like a voodoo priest, but.

Not really like a bourbon street food increase. And he says that he can’t do tours anymore after. What happened the last time. And he tells this very long story. I wish I could do a Tony Todd voice, but I can’t in that deep gravelly, scary voice. He tells this long story and you’re just waiting. Like what happened?

You got 

Todd: spooked by something in the marsh, 

Craig: saw two eyes staring at him, pinpoints children. There’s the very metal they wanted to get off.

Dangling over the edge. He fell and got him. What happened? He slipped his hit right on the roof and food me for negligence. Got back up like that. So that’s the conclusion of the story. So he can’t do it anymore, but he’s like, you know, check down at, uh, Marie Lou Vose house of voodoo there. I think they’re still doing one.

And so they, they head down there. Um, Ben just casually sees a t-shirt with an ax on it that says Victor Crowley lives. We meet the rest of the people who are going on this tour. Um, two girls. Misty and Jenna Misty is played by Mercedes McNabb. Who’s done a lot of stuff. She was in the Adams family when she was a little.

And she was really funny in that, even though it was just a bit part. I remember her as harmony from Buffy, the vampire Slayer and angel, and she was fricking hilarious on that show. And then Jenna played by a lady named Jolie Fiori who has done a lot of TV and stuff, but I didn’t recognize her, but they’re shooting like a girls gone wild type film called Bayou beavers.

Todd: It’s so great. 

Craig: They’re just shaking their naked boobs around, 

Todd: flashing their boobs throughout the movie. It’s hilarious. 

Craig: I’m pretending to make out with each other. It is hilarious. Like it’s, I’m sure you and my. Straight friends, you know, very much appreciated that for me, it was just hilarious. Like it was just so comical that at every turn, their camera man played by bill Murray’s brother, Joel Murray, just every, like, if, if it’s like in fast food, like if there, if there’s time to lean, there’s time to clean.

Like if we have a second pop. You know, I’m going to get some footage 

Todd: just a bit. I got a new battery.

Craig: Absolutely hilarious. And Joel Murray, you know, is, is a funny guy. He was in Scrooged with his brother. He’s one of the. Three Murray. I 

Todd: think they’re like nine of them is a ton of 

Craig: Murray brothers. They’re there. Yeah. There’s a bunch of the brothers. I don’t know how many of them act. I know at least three.

Yeah. Um, but he, and he’s younger and he’s funny. You’ll recognize him. You’ve seen him and stuff. He’s a funny guy. And then we meet the tour guide. Sean played by a kid named Perry shin and he’s like goofy. And over the top, trying to put on this new Orleans accent, even though he appears to be of like, He’s Pacific Islander or Asia.

Todd: Well, 

Craig: what can I do you too full? Do you do a haunted swamp tour? Well, I do their own. They’re holding swamp tool, real love ghosts, tales of the macabre and actual stats that are still down by a voodoo curses.

But it’s trying to put on. No Harlan’s accent. And like it’s, it’s, it’s just, it’s just as bad as mine just, well, just 

Todd: like earlier, uh, when like later when park, it says the only scary thing about this tour is Mr. Uncle Remus meets Bruce Lee up there. Yeah.

Craig: Oh, he calls him lots of different names and they’re all totally appropriate. It’s hilarious. But he’s the goofy tour guide. And then, um, there’s also a middle-aged couple, uh, from Minnesota. Jim played by Richard real who has been. Pretty much everything you’ve ever seen. 

Todd: Every movie in existence, he has almost 500 IFDB credits.

This man is insanely hard working actor. It’s crazy. Yeah. 

Craig: And his wife, um, Shannon played by a lady named Patricka. Darbo who I know from drum roll days of our lives, 

Todd: I guess it’s because you mostly, you mostly watch days of our lives. You didn’t pick up the Perry Shen’s most of his stuff is general. 

Craig: Huh?

Oh, yeah, I did see that, but yeah, I never watched the general hospital, uh, this, this lady, um, Patricka Darbo I loved her on days of our lives because she’s funny. She’s a little kind of row tons. Woman, but, but the, the gag on, um, days of our lives was that she was married to this super, super hot doctor. And, uh, they were just all over.

All the time. It was just so funny to see this little, you know, stout lady and her big, hot husband, just like, you know, soap, opera, gays, and like passion. It was great. She was really funny. They’re going to, and then the last guest is a kind of sullen young lady named, um, Beth and she is played by a Mara.

Todd: Zahra goes up 

Craig: E yeah. Um, in, in all of the SQLs, she was recast, uh, with Danielle Harris who is in her own right. A horror icon. Um, but try as I might, I could not. Find out why? I don’t know if, uh, the original actress chose not to come back or if they just wanted to cast somebody who was a more recognizable horror icon.

I don’t know. I love Danielle Harris. She’s great. And so I was happy to see her in the sequels, but I kind of felt bad for. Mara’s R goes up, but she, uh, had a roll on gossip girl. She’s done tons of TV. She’s very pretty. And she does a fine job in this movie. So they take a bus and they kind of go through new Orleans or, you know, the city, uh, the French quarter and whatnot.

And then they get to the Bayou and they board the scare boat, which is just a pontoon boat, like decorated with like Halloween lights and stuff. Oh, it is, but it looks super fun. I am such a dork and I know that you are too, like, I would be so down for this, like I know it’s going to be cheesy and stupid and I don’t care.

That’s part of the charm of it. You know, it’s like those roadside, a chat attractions in the Midwest that, you know, they’re goofy and cheesy, but there’s just something charming about them. And I really have just kind of loved that kind of local flavor. Type thing. If I ever do go to new Orleans, I want to go on a swamp tour.

I want to see the ghost. Like, I don’t feel like it would really be the full experience if I didn’t see that. 

Todd: For sure. For sure. Yeah. You got to do it. You got to do the ghost tour. You got to tour, you gotta do the, the blue bus tour. You gotta do everything in new Orleans. As far as I’m concerned, there’s a definite layer.

Corniness to those aspects of the city, like voodoo is a real thing. And it’s a very deeply held belief that is well practiced. And well-rooted in new Orleans tradition and people there. I mean, it’s a serious thing, but then like everything else in America, it can easily be exploited for money. Sure. And you get that all the time down there as well.

But, uh, so yeah, this is, this is, again, just in keeping with, you will find this kind of thing in new Orleans all the time, this sort of swamp tour ghost thing, uh, very inequalities and this guy says, sure, absolutely. It’s pretty interesting. 

Craig: It’s terrible. And as he’s trying to launch the boat, somebody else, somebody, some by you hit.

Rowboat yelling at them. Like, where do you think you’re going? This swamp is closed. Uh, any, and he says something about, uh, Victor Crowley, but the tour guides like, oh no, you know, he’s just, this, he’s just. Crazy guy drinks, his own pee and just wave. So everybody waves at him. Then he takes a swig out.

Todd: That’s disgusting. And that was another Cammy out there. Did you, uh, you don’t even know who this guy was, John. Well, you ought to John Carl Buco Buechler, buckler. I’m not sure how you pronounce it. I mean, he directed one of your favorite movies of all time. Troll. Yeah, seriously, as well as cellar dweller.

Remember. And, um, I guess also the Friday, the 13th part seven, he was also responsible for directing. So, uh, and he’s, he’s been act, he’s acted in a number of horror movies and some of his, and some other ones and stuff here and there. 

Craig: I F I figured as much, I figured it had to be a cameo. I don’t know why I didn’t click on his name.

He reprises his role in the SQL, but he gets killed off right. In the first scene. But, uh, so, so they go out and he, you know, that Sean is giving this to, you know, if you look over liar all or you’ll see, like it’s so stupid coming up, you all see old house with old bomb behind it. That right there is a home of a real famous Louisiana legend.

Victor crown hatchet. Legend is, is that, uh, he was a default man whose own father went nuts and whacked him in the face of the whole. Oh, the only kind of, he was a solar ugly or something anyway, he died. And so the story goes is that if you ever near the all crowded house late at night, it’s still he’ll pick the Crowley crowd for his dad.

I know who did it again? That ain’t the story.

It’s hilarious. It’s also hilarious to me that she’s like, all, like, that’s not the real story. And then later she tells the story and it’s exactly the same, except for like, except for like a few minor details that are just extra. Like it’s not, it’s not like anything that Sean said, wasn’t true. It’s just like, apparently.

Angry that he left out these. Little details, which is 

Todd: funny because this is what Adam Green said. When he was coming up with hatch with the Victor crawly thing, he was like, he wanted to keep it simple and just needs to be something you can tell your friends, you know, uh, this dude’s dad hit him in the head with an hatchet through the door, and nobody’s sure if he’s alive.

Boom. Just sorta like Jason, you know, sorta like Freddy, very simple. And that’s, that’s a smart 

Craig: philosophy. It’s more like Jason, because like Jason, he’s kind of a tragic figure. And I actually thought that they played, you know, Victor Crowley, the killer and the movie is just a brutal killing machine. But you know, when Mary Beth eventually tells her version of the backstory, we actually get to see it play out on screen.

And I thought that this was done really well. Kane hotter plays the killer Victor Crowley, but he also plays sand’s makeup. Crowley’s dad. And we see this whole story about how, you know, he was born deformed, but his dad liked, liked him. His dad loved him and you know, tried to protect him and, and you see them like sitting together and his dad feeding him and this deformed kid.

Uh, you know, his face is just terribly disfigured, um, is eating and like, you know, the food is falling out of his mouth. It’s gross, but it’s 

Todd: falling on his little doll. 

Craig: He’s holding onto a bait, like cradling a baby doll. And, um, and he seems comfortable and safe and happy with his dad and, and his dad Kane Hodder is a giant of a man, but he’s, he’s a handsome man.

You know, you don’t see him in much other than horror. I get the feeling that he is. A bad actor here. He’s very sympathetic. I kind kinda got the feels a little bit, you know, in this relationship. At one point he drives into town and he’s got Victor with him and Victor is kind of wearing, you know, like a shroud and he stays in the car while his dad goes in.

And the local kids torment him, which is mean and sad. You know, that’s not nice to bully people. Ultimately the tragedy is on Halloween. The kids came to their house out on the bike. And in an attempt to draw Victor out so they could get a peek at him. They throw a fire, works at the house, which sets the house on fire.

And Victor is trapped inside and his dad, um, who hadn’t been. Uh, returns home and can hear his son screaming from the inside, but the door is on fire. So he can’t just open the door. So he picks up a hatchet and he’s trying to break the door down. But Victor, for whatever reason, I, you know, he’s a little slow or whatever.

Or, or, or he’s just scared, which would be also completely reasonable has him he’s he’s pressed himself up against the door, trying to get out. And the hatchet goes directly into his face and kills him. This backstory is explored further in, in the sequels. There’s more to it, but. Mary Beth’s story. She just tells us, you know, this devastated his father and his father just became a recluse and died sometime five, 10 years later.

And ever since then people have said that they, you know, hear the cries of Victor Crowley at night and blah-blah-blah, it’s actually kind of a sad backstory and I kind of liked it, but 

Todd: it would have been better though for him to just like a step about three feet to the right where there was no fire and just break through the.

Right. That’s true. Or maybe run around to the back door. 

Craig: Yeah. And at this God, we, we we’ve been talking for so long and, and, but this, it gets to the point they crashed the boat, sank the boat, they have to get off. The old guy gets bit by an alligator and whatever they find themselves in front of the real Crowley house.

That’s when Mary Beth tells the real story. But because the old guy’s injured, he had. Bound and determined. And like, apparently they have to go. There’s no other way they have to go right by the house, uh, in order to get to the road or anything else there there’s just no other possible way they can go.

Some of them were like, oh, this is stupid. There’s no, you know, ghost or whatever it is. And then that’s when Victor Crowley just bursts out of his head. Arm’s in the hatchet and hand. Ah,

Todd: no 

Craig: subtlety here, none at all. And I love it. It’s hilarious. Um, and he looks good. You know, the makeup, it doesn’t articulate very much. It seems mostly like a mask or different prosthetic pieces that really don’t move a lot. Um, but he’s huge. Gross and he’s scary. And he chops the old guy in half the wife.

He rips her jaw apart, um, in a great shot that I’m sure if we were talking about technicality, uh, I have no idea how they did it because the camera spun around. Okay. So you’ve got the actress and Kane hotter puts. Hands like in her mouth and starts to open her mouth, but then the camera spins around him.

And when it gets back to her, it’s now a prop. It’s a. And he rips her the top of her head completely off. I would pay $5 to see a behind the scenes of how they did that because it looked seamless. It looked really good. And then Victor Crowley chases them through the Baidu for. 30 40 minutes. Great.

Creative kills. The guy who shot the porn, he gets his head spun around 360 degrees looks fantastic. Jenna, one of the porn girls gets her face sanded off with a belt sander, which is hilarious. 

Todd: It was so funny. 

Craig: It’s so random. And apparently he used this belt. Sander is one of his weapons of throughout the rest of the whole series.

And what is it plugged into?

Todd: Well, I actually read an interview with the director and he talked about the belt sander. He said that when it came time to shoot it, he was not going to do it. He’s like, this is ridiculous. I can’t have our killer, like, you know, It’s an extension cord, pine, him running around with his belt sander. And the prop guy was like, no, we’ve got to do it.

How about if tomorrow I can whip up and bring you a gas-powered belt sander, just to prove that such a thing can exist. Will you do the same? And he’s like fine. And he says, lo and behold, the next day the prop guy had to go. Howard belt sander. It says, here you go. We’re going to do it. 

Craig: Oh God, it’s hilarious.

It’s so funny. And it’s gross and it looks fantastic. Um, and like, like I said, he just keeps, you know, they’ll, they’ll run away and then they’ll stay behind a huddle up and talk about what they’re going to do next. And then he’ll show up again. Ah, it’s almost 

Todd: like a running gag. As often as these people will like run.

For like 30 seconds and then stop and then have a conversation or argue with each other or, you know, say they’ve got it. They’re going to make a plan. And then while they’re doing that the whole, the whole time, I’m thinking you guys just need to get out of there. 

Craig: Yes. Oh God. And it’s just like, just keep moving.

I’m so glad that they stop and talk because the dialogue is so it’s banter and it’s, it’s so funny. Like I was just laughing and laughing. Um, Marcus making fun of the tour guide. Hilarious. 

Todd: The tour guides. Changing accents. 

Craig: Yes. Oh, he’s got like three different accents. I think it turns out that he’s. An American, like all of his accents are fake,

you know? Cause like new Orleans people who live in new Orleans are in America. Right. 

Todd: We know what you mean, standard American standard. 

Craig: Yeah. They find ’em. They find, they trip over the body of the camera man and they pull out his wallet and it turns out that he’s not who he said he was. He’s just some.

Average Joe who cons women into show in their boobs for so he can record it like for his private collection. And Misty says, so he didn’t really work for you 

Todd: beavers. I’m thinking about, 

Craig: you must pretend he’s a producer to get his own little collection. 

Todd: Yep. Bert. 

Craig: Why are all men such slime? I can’t believe I’ve fallen for that shit three times now.

Oh, just, just so much. Funny like, and it’s silly and it’s stupid. And I was so down for it. Like it’s a fun, this is a fun week. It’s meant to be fun. It’s not meant to be taken seriously. It’s put there for you to laugh at and to have a good time with. Oh, I just, you know, I’ve seen it several times, but as you know, uh, I, the people closest to me, aren’t huge horror fans.

So I usually watch these movies by myself. I think that seeing something like this in a theater full of people who are into this kind of thing, would just be awesome. I can’t imagine the energy and the laugh. Even just sitting around with your friends. It’s just so fun. I just think it’s super fun, but they run around.

Everybody eventually gets killed except for, uh, been Mary Beth, Marcus, and, uh, Misty. And at that point they decided they need to go back to Crowley’s house to try to find weapons. Uh, and I think that they’re going to find. A gas can and try to set them on fire. I don’t remember why they said they think that will kill him though.

So they split up. Um, Ben goes to look for the gas. Mary Beth is kind of hanging out with Marcus and they’re keeping an eye out and then Misty’s over by herself keeping an eye out. And she’s so funny, even with no dialogue, she’s just like rolling her eyes and making gestures and stuff and so funny. But then.

It cut. The camera cuts to Mary Beth and Marcus again, and they’re like taunting Victor Crowley, trying to distract him or something. It cuts back to Misty and she’s gone. Just her clothes are like draped over a Bush. And then you see been. Rooting through the gas kits. And he just gets hit in the head with Misty’s head, like just her head, just like smacks into the bed.

And then her whole torso follows, just smacks him. And then Victor Crowley shows up in the door. Ah, and they fight and they douse him in gasoline and they S they light them on fire and he’s on fire and it immediately starts rating. And put some out and then there’s a chase through a cemetery and Marcus gets killed.

I really kind of hoped Marcus was going to make it, um, cause he’s so funny, but you know, it’s. Suiting for the movie he gets is my favorite thing about Marcus is in pretty much every scene. And he’s like, this is bullshit. You could take a shot every time. He says that and have a really fun time. It’s beautiful to be here right now, man.

Just to be looking at some titties, man, what’s wrong with us

as he’s up a tree. Uh, so funny, but he gets, he gets his arms ripped off and then he gets picked up and smashed against the mazal Leah. So now it’s only been and Mary Beth left and they’re running and Victor Crowley throws a, a it’s a, a rod from like a cat, like a rod iron fence throws it. And it goes right directly into bends foot and he can’t move.

But Mary Beth says bend the, uh, rod forward. Cause Crowley’s running right at them and they do. And Crowley just impales himself through the chair. Right on it. Yeah. It’s before that, when they were being chased, um, at one point Crowley had, uh, fallen on top of Ben. So they were face-to-face and he like drooled like a gallon of mucus into.

And then in this moment where he’s like dead, like he’s not moving and they’re just standing there looking at him then out of nowhere, he just coughs a full mouth of blood right into Ben’s face. Um, so disgusting blood splatter, gore. I mean, it’s, it’s everywhere. And, and I watch. What I assume is the rated R version.

I don’t know if I’ve ever seen the unrated version. I mean, I guess I’d like to, I mean, if it, if it’s really only an extra minute of footage, I feel like I’m not really missing that much. It’s still gory. It’s still fun. But anyway, they think they’re safe. They find Mary Beth dad’s boat from the first scene they get in the boat, they’re going away.

And then I didn’t see this coming, but when it happened, It was perfect because the way that it was shot, even the music, if you pay attention to it, the way that it was shot in the music is super, super reminiscent of Friday, the 13th part one, um, at the end and the exact same thing happens in Friday. The 13th young, Jason pops out of the lake and grabs Alice and pulls her under, um, here Crowley bursts out of the lake grabs.

Mary Beth pulls her under, she gets tangled up in some weeds underneath, but then she sees. Ben’s hand reaching down for her and she grabs it and, and gets pulled up. But when she gets pulled up, she finds that it’s actually Crowley with bins severed arm. And Ben is laying in the bottom of the boat with his arm, torn off.

And, um, Mary Beth and Crowley scream in each other’s face cuts to black. The end. 

Todd: It’s so interesting. 

Craig: So abrupt, so abrupt. I, I thought that something had gone wrong like that, that the version that I had seen had, had gotten cut off, um, prematurely. So I looked it up and that’s not true. It’s just that it’s a setup because part two opens in that personally.

Moment. In fact, if you watch hatchet one, two, and three, all the way through and take out the end credits in the middle, it is one continuous story that happens over the course of just a couple of days. Wow. Uh, now. The final one, which is not called hatchet four, it’s called, uh, Victor Crowley, um, is set 10 years later and it was made in secret to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the first movie.

And the critics are mixed, you know, generally speaking, this first movie got pretty good. Reviews, you know, for, for horror movie, the sequels mixed reviews. Some people like them, some people didn’t the last one, the reviews were mixed, but they were, uh, there was, uh, a major divide. Um, a lot of people, a lot of critics said that they thought that this was certainly the best SQL, if not the best.

In the whole franchise, but then the critic from bloody disgusting said, he thought that it was total crap and the worst one of the whole franchise. I haven’t seen it. So I can’t recommend it one way or the other, but I can recommend this movie because I think it’s hilarious. I think it’s a really, really fun take on eighties style slashers.

I think that Victor Crowley is maybe not as interesting as some. He’s not as interesting as Freddy, he’s not as complex. He does have a backstory. He, he, he’s a little bit of a tragic figure. Um, and he’s fun to watch. He’s he’s funny just in his, you know, just popping up and shouting, like he never, he doesn’t talk.

He doesn’t say anything. He just screamed. It he’s brutal and indiscriminate indestructable 

Todd: apparently 

Craig: indestructible, right? It doesn’t matter. You can shoot him, you can impale him, you can set them on fire. It doesn’t matter. Uh, and the CQL goes into more of that, you know, about, you know, there’s a curse that whatever, not that it’s stupid, it’s just not worth going into in detail.

Now, if you’re interested, read the Wikipedia pages or watch the movies, because there is more. To his backstory or, or whatever. Yeah. I liked it. I had seen this movie before, maybe even more than once, but I’m sure it has been at least a decade, um, and going back and watching it again. I, I had a lot of fun.

Yeah. I enjoyed it more than I remembered and I enjoyed it more than I expected. 

Todd: What surprised me the second time around. I don’t remember the circumstances on which I saw it the first time around. I know I was alone. What really got me was just how funny the movie was. I remembered it as having humorous elements, but more or less just being a straight out slasher kind of copycat movie.

But, uh, this time around it. It opened my eyes really hit home. Just how it’s almost a comedy first, really in a horror movie. Second only because my God, well, a, the subject matter and B it is one of the glorious things you’re going to see. I mean, it loves to go up close and personal with all of these effects and you and I both love that stuff.

Yeah. Do we just love the artistry of it and everything? And so. That’s definitely doesn’t disappoint in this movie at all. So yeah, all around it kind of hits all the notes. What I want to see, like four movies, just like it. I don’t know. I guess I go back and watch 80 slashers that are all basically the same, but those are products of their time.

This is a throwback. So maybe I’ll check out the second one. Yeah. If it’s as funny as this one is then. 

Craig: I think again, maybe not the third one, but the rest of them are all written by Adam Green and he wrote this one. So one would think that they would be similar in quality, but who knows? But no, I definitely do, uh, recommend this one.

I think that. Um, a lot of our listeners would really get a kick out of it if you haven’t seen it, which you probably already have, but, um, maybe, maybe it’s time for a revisit. Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode, if you enjoyed it or had anything to say or any insights that you would like to share with us, we’re on a variety of platforms, basically anywhere that you can find podcasts.

Google two guys in a chain saw podcast. We also do have our own websites to guys that read 40 math.com. We have a Facebook page and you can leave us messages anywhere there. And we try to respond to as many of those as we can. We do also also, uh, have a Patrion campaign going on right now. Some of you have told us that you would.

To support us even more than you already do. The web address for that is Todd’s 

Todd: patron.com/chainsaw 

Craig: podcast who are so inclined. Uh, there are a few, you know, just a few bonus things for those who choose to throw us a little extra support, but we’re still here releasing our regular episodes for all of you, um, across these various platforms for free.

And we will continue to be doing. And are happy to do it and love interacting with you as much as we can until next time. I’m Craig and I’m talking with Two Guys and a Chainsaw. .

How do you feel about ridiculous looking monster makeup? This week’s film was a longstanding request, and one of Clive Barker’s very first films. He was less than impressed. In fact, the results led him to decide that he needed much more creative control over his next movie (Hellraiser). Loads of fun to talk about!

Rawhead Rex (1986)

Episode 297, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd: hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig

Todd: Today’s movie is Craig’s pick. It is a long-standing request. I think from our listener named John, this is 1986’s Rawhead Rex. It was one of the few movies directed by George Pablo and it is a screenplay written by Clive Barker. I name, you might know. My understanding is that, uh, George Pablo and Clive Barker did work together on a movie before this probably I think one of his first forays into cinema called, uh, in the U S I think it was called trans mutations, but in, uh, it was originally called underworld.

And I guess that went well enough that they decided to, uh, collaborate on Rawhead Rex, which I believe, and you would know more about this than me Craig, but because I know you’re a big Clive Barker fan and you’ve read a lot of his stories. Um, he, it was a story in one of the Books of Blood, right? One of his debut series of, of, of, um, books of short stories, right?

Yeah. The third one. Yep. Okay. Have you read the story? I 

Craig: ha I know that I have, because I’ve read all of the books. But I don’t remember it. And as you know, this will come as a huge surprise to our regular listeners. We picked this movie at the very possible last second. Um, and, uh, my copies of my books of blood are at school.

Uh, I would have liked to have re-read it, but I couldn’t find it online. Um, and I, I don’t really remember it, frankly. Uh, but I, I know that I’ve read it at some point. I was trying to do some quick internet research seeing, you know, what the major differences were and, and apparently, you know, Barker wrote or, yeah, I Barker wrote the screenplay himself.

And so apparently as far as plot character and setting our concerns. It follows the story very closely. Um, but Barker, one of the things that he’s most known for is the element of sexuality in his books, uh, and short stories. He’s a dark writer. And, and so, uh, the, the, the sexuality that he weaves in often has dark elements to it.

Uh, I mean, if you’re familiar with nothing of Clive Barker is aside from the Hellraiser series. I mean, even the hell raisers series, you know, is full of sadomasochism and, um, tons of sexual suggestion and stuff like that. And that was, uh, intended in the story and intended in the screenplay, but was toned down a lot by the filmmakers because this.

Came out at the height of the video nasties phenomenon, uh, in Europe. And so they were really afraid of having the film censored or, or blocked entirely. And so they toned a lot of that down and ultimately Barker was really, really disappointed. Um, And the way the movie turned out. 

Todd: Yeah, my understanding was he was so disappointed that that’s what kind of ERT, um, drove him to take more control over his next project.

And he ended up, um, I think his very next project was taking the reigns as director for hell raiser. Right. And that worked out quite well for him. I read a quote, uh, that he did. I think it was about a year after the movie was released. I believe it was released in the UK theatrically limited, uh, had a very limited release in the U S and then pretty much went straight to video the same year at a time when things didn’t go straight to video as fast as they do now.

Right. And he said, uh, I think generally speaking, the movie follows the beats of the screenplay. It’s just that monster movies by and large are made by directorial oomph rather than what’s in the screenplay. I’d like to think the screenplay for RA had Rex had the possibility of having major thrilled. I don’t think it was quite pulled off.

And he even said that he wanted to do a remake of this. I think it was like in the 2004, he said he wanted to do a remake of it mentioned in some interview, but nothing’s really come of that. I have to say that while I was watching the movie, I thought this could have been a pretty interesting, good movie.

Uh, it does seem to have all the elements of a movie, like, uh, I dunno, I dunno why I was thinking pumpkin head was coming to me. There’s a little bits of the omen. It does follow that sort of, um, oh gosh, there are illusions to other films that you don’t look now is kind of referenced in this movie oddly enough.

But it, it also made me think of the Wicker man. It made me think of a lot of pagan folk legends come to life, uh, this type of thing. Right, right. You know, it’s a common theme and it’s something that we welcome in our horror movies. It’s, it’s ripe territory for thrills and chills. And I felt like. The movie did a good job of mining that and hitting all the beats that I would expect in a horror movie like this, there’s some ancient monster that’s awakened, and it starts wreaking havoc.

And there’s some religious element to it. Uh, there’s some somebody kind of who knows a little bit, but they’ve kept it hidden and kind of the deep, dark secret of the town that’s long forgotten, or maybe just protected by a few people in the know. And then, you know, they have to unravel that mystery in order to find out how to, how to send it back to where it came.

And for that I thought the movie could have been effective. The problem is I just don’t think it was very well made. Some of the acting is really over the top. It’s a little slow. It gets very laughably, melodramatic at points. And of course, like, I think it’s gotten the most criticism for. Absolutely awful creature costume that apparently they only had four weeks to put together and it shows, uh, and again, it could have been really good, but it just looks terrible.

And that is so distracting. I think that it’s hard to take it seriously and it just comes across as a schlocky monster. You know, it probably like, like Clive Barker said I’m, I’ll bet the stories better. Um, I, I read a little bit, we’ll probably talk a little bit more about the difference between the S the story and what, you know, this, his screenplay, but I also feel like the screenplay itself probably could have been a better movie.

Fitted had been in better hands. 

Craig: That’s what I was thinking too. I felt like this was an example of you’re given really good material and then you just don’t execute it. Well, um, not to say necessarily that the script or the screenplay is perfect or amazing. I, I don’t think that it’s Barker’s best work, but you do see some potential, um, all of the things that you said that the melodramatic acting, especially from some of the smaller characters and, and especially the creature design.

You know, I’m sure the sketches for it looked great, but, uh, it, it just wasn’t executed well. And, and, you know, that’s as a result of time constraints and budgetary constraints, which I’m sympathetic to, but it just doesn’t work. I mean, it looks like a guy in a suit. It 

Todd: looks like a guy in a suit who can’t see out of it very well.

He’s kinda tumbles around a bit. Right. 

Craig: Well, and I, I, yeah, you know, I was talking to Alan last night and I was like, you remember when we were kids and every Halloween that store would pop up in the mall, the Halloween store, and there would be those masks up on the top shelves that kids couldn’t reach that would sell for like three, $400.

That’s what this looks like. Yeah. Well, I mean, they did look awesome, but they were just masked, like there’s, there’s no articulation or movement. And, uh, that’s what this looks like. It looks like a good, expensive Halloween mask, but not a movie costume. 

Todd: No. And, and you can almost see the points in which it attaches to the rest of the body.

For some reason, he’s kind of an armor, but the whole front of his chest is open and exposed. It’s almost like you can practically see the seams in this thing. And then when it, when it runs, when it runs, he’s sort of hopping along. That was once one scene in particular where he runs after somebody, I almost fell out of my chair laughing because I was like, when did he get this kind of like happy gate to himself, this monster?

Craig: Well, and, and when he runs like that, you can see. The rubber mask jiggling. 

Todd: Yeah. And it should be cool. Right. Actually it reminded me of what was that other movie that we saw? Uh, that was, he was about a comic book. Oh yeah. It’s like a tales from the crypt. Was it also based on a Clive Barker store? I can’t remember it, it started the guy from ReAnimator and it was a about, you know, he was a comic book artist.

Who’s comic book drawing came to life. And I remember in that movie, And we were talking about, we were saying like, you know, in the fight scenes and things, you didn’t get really good glimpses of the monster, but then it was like they had a day with the mask where they would just film a whole bunch of closeups of it’s snarling and looking left and looking.

Right. And although you do see a lot more, unfortunately you do see a lot more of this monster. Full-size on the screen running around and doing. There’s an awful lot of that. And it’s looks so cheesy to have this almost immobile mask in your face with very limited articulation, trying to look snarling and menacing.

And it also has these like sort of light up eyes that are supposed to look like they’re glowing, but it really just looks like they’re a little lights twinkling behind the highlights. The eyes 

Craig: were so weird, cause it was like they glowed red, but they also like, it was like a red light circling around his pupil.

It reminded me of like when you’re waiting for a webpage to load and there’s that little circle that goes around and around. That’s what it looked like in his eyes. And it was weird. It wasn’t. 

Todd: The fact, like they used fiber optics to do that, but I mean, it’s unnatural, of course it’s a supernatural creature, but it just, it doesn’t even work as a supernatural creature.

It just looks like some very constructed, very bad, special effects. 

Craig: Right. And in the hands of more skilled filmmakers, I feel like these are all things that could have been worked around if they would have shown less of the monster or, or done more from the monsters perspective, which the story I read is in part told from the Monster’s perspective.

So they could have done more monster POV. You know, this monster is running around. Biting people’s faces off and biting people’s necks off, but its mouth is just this big open toothy mall that doesn’t move. So, uh, I mean it just really takes you out of it. I was looking forward to watching this, like you said, it’s a long standing request.

It’s kind of, it’s infamous. It’s, you know, it’s something that we’ve talked about before. And so I thought, you know, it’s, it’s going to be schlocky, but maybe it’ll be, you know, so bad. It’s good kind of thing. Maybe it’ll be funny and fun. And in some ways it was, but it just didn’t go far enough. It just lost something in translation and it ultimately just became a standard.

Almost, I don’t think it was lazy, but it feels lazy monster movie. And I read Barker said monster on the rampage stories are about the phallic principle, large males run around terrorizing women. Now the gag only works. If you understand the subtext, otherwise it’s about this dumb monster running around.

I couldn’t get them to understand the whole movie had to smell of sex. When this thing appeared, you had to think it was a Dick, but they didn’t get the joke. And it was a joke. That was the point. He meant it to be satire and they played it straight, ultimately just in work. And like I said, I was looking forward to it.

And so I, I thought, you know, I’ve been gauging things a lot based on IMD B user reviews. Uh, cause I feel like people are honest one way or another. They either love it or they hate it. And a lot of the reviews were very positive saying, you know, it’s a monster movie, it’s fun. It’s it’s way underrated. And then I watched it and I was disappointed.

It’s not, we’ve seen worse. Um, we’ve seen much, much worse and, and I can also see how, if we had seen this movie when we were kids in the eighties, I think we would’ve thought it was fun. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I kind of see what you’re saying. It’s not schlocky enough to be fun. It kind of in a way is taking itself a little too seriously.

Whereas a lot of the horror movies that we review that are schlocky and fun to make fun of and fun to laugh at, they have a sense of humor about them. And so they kinda, you know, they almost openly admit, we, we know this is a dumb movie to make money, so we hope you enjoy yourself one way or another. And you know, you sort of do, but with this one, it also.

Like, like you said, these elements of what we’re, uh, obviously the original screenplay and the original story they poke through just enough. There’s some disturbing elements here that kind of come out of left field and it does make for an odd juxtaposition against the goofiness of everything else. I think what I read about the original story, like you said, he was literally meant to be a giant phallus and there was a graphic novel version of this done.

Uh, I don’t know, almost like eight years later where it was. You know, drawn that way. And so it’s supposed to be this, you know, kind of male chauvinism run a muck kind of thing where this monster is just unrelentlessly and brutally kills all, everything it comes across has no problem killing children and has no problem killing women and raping them.

And, uh, it’s quite, quite violent and quite brutal. But this idea of just male sexuality gone crazy, which obviously doesn’t come through in this movie because a it’s been toned down B the imagery isn’t there of the giant phallus is a little bit of it that you can, you know, that’s kind of hinted at when I talk about this demon as being sort of an ancient fertility demon, but it’s, it’s almost a throwaway line.

And then there’s a scene earlier in the movie when he neglects murdering a woman, obviously because she’s pregnant, which is a little confusing. Um, I, right. You would think that. He would have no trouble doing that, but I guess sort of pregnancy discuss him, or I guess something too feminine, right? Some something that exudes female power, 

Craig: maybe it really doesn’t read it.

He knows like I didn’t, I didn’t fully get it. And I mean, it, it, it ties in, in the end, but seemingly without explanation, and I feel like one of the main characters almost has to throw in a line to kind of try to explain what’s happening, but it just doesn’t, it doesn’t read. And yeah, I read that in the story, you know, uh, the demon himself has this sadomasochistic hatred of women and that doesn’t come through here.

If anything, like I was in that scene where he spares the pregnant woman, I almost got the suggestion that he was. In some way, sympathetic to women. That’s what I thought. Like, like that’s the line I won’t cross, you know, like, I, I can, I can rip everybody else’s faces off and I can there, and there were some parts of that shocked me now.

I didn’t remember the story. Well enough, apparently in the story he murders multiple children. Um, but, uh, he, he does murder a child in this movie and I was surprised. In fact, when it, when it happened, I was wondering for a while, did he really kill the kid or did he just take the kid and they’re going to rescue the kid later?

No, he did kill the kid, but, uh, again, it’s, it’s in the source material. It’s suggestive. It’s not suggesting. Firmly enough to make sense. 

Todd: There was even one other scene too. There’s a, there’s a younger, there’s a younger couple, uh, who wander off into the woods and they’re like making out like crazy. And she S it seems like she keeps saying a couple of lines.

Like, we need to talk, or I want to talk to you about something. And so I thought, oh, she must be pregnant too. And so, you know, that’s gonna come into play. And when they do run out, like the monster gets the guy and the girl escapes. And so I thought, oh, okay. That, you know, this is the through line here, but again, like you said, it just doesn’t, it doesn’t make sense.

And it doesn’t go anywhere. And we don’t ever hear that she was pregnant. Right. 

Craig: And then he does kill women later. So it’s not like he is only killing men. It’s, it’s messy. It is all at the same time. It’s a straightforward narrative. I mean, it’s, it’s a monster movie, you know, this, this family. Howard played by David Dukes, uh, who I recognized.

I looked at his profile. The only thing that I remembered him from was the Stephen King original mini series, rose red, which I actually really enjoyed. He’s a writer, I guess. And, um, he has brought his family to rural Ireland because he’s doing research for a book now. I, I was never really sure what if he’s a writer of fiction or if he’s a historian, but he’s, he’s interested in this church and kind of the relics in and around this church.

And like you said later, he talks about ancient pagan sex that existed pre Christianity in that area. And he’s interested in that. I mean, he just says that, you know, like we don’t, we don’t really get any more information about it, but he’s there with his wife, Elaine, uh, played by Kelly Piper. I wasn’t familiar with her and his kids, Robbie and minty little, a little boy and a little girl, mentee, mentee, and so cute in the beginning, in the very, very beginning.

One of the very first things we see is this farmer trying to remove a stone pillar from a field. And it’s just, it’s a very odd phallic, frankly, pillar in the middle of a field. We see him struggling with that. And then we see Howard at the church and inside this church, we see that there is a stained glass window, a stained glass window with an image of what will be the monster whose name is RA.

This is in Ireland. So I assume this is a Catholic church and I just, it was bizarre to me to see demonic imagery in the, in the stained glass. I’m Catholic. I’ve never been to a church that. Demons in, in the imagery, in the church 

Todd: demons with the laser eyes, 

Craig: laser eyes. Yeah. Like the light shines through its eyeballs and these beams of light, you know, come through.

So anyway, so, uh, he’s in this church, he sees, you know, this image of the demon, and then we go back to the farmer struggling and all of a sudden these dark clouds start rolling in and in his last ditch effort to topple the pillar, he’s actually successful. But all of this steam shoots up out of the ground and then raw had just like burst out of arms in the air, roaring to the sky, you know, silhouetted against the sun, behind the clouds for a 

Todd: little while the movie seemed fine.

Like I, even to this point, I thought, all right, this is going to be kind of fun, you know? I, it didn’t seem silly. And at this point there was enough intrigue with the cause it kept cutting back to the church as well. And the there’s the, the vector, I don’t know what a Verger is, but, 

Craig: uh, I don’t either. I’ve 

Todd: never heard of that.

It must be a European thing. But anyway, yeah, the Verger in the church, there’s the pastor and there’s the Verger. And he’s like, you know, kind of looking back and forth and he’s looking at the eyes beaming out and he just seems kind of shady. 

Craig: And then he, he touches the alter. His name is O’Brien and he touches the altar and he has like a vision, like, like a 

Todd: POV of maybe from the monster running through the woods 

Craig: or something moving through the woods.

But then there’s like a campfire in the woods or something. I don’t know. It’s very unclear. It’s never explained. But the last thing that he sees is kind of just raw. Head’s big. Toothy mouth. And when it, when it comes back to him, he laughs and looks like he’s completely lost his mind, which apparently he has.

And again, this, this really isn’t explained, but it turns out, I mean, it it’s projected, but it turns out that he’s. Uh, RA had disciple now for unexplained reasons who knows whatever Howard talks to Reverend coot.

Todd: That was so funny. 

Craig: It’s so like, it’s funny that Barker wrote this and I wonder what tone he intended, because it just seems like such a throw away joke. Howard asks O’Brian like, yeah. So I’m looking for a Reverend Coote. Uh, am I saying that right? 

Todd: That’s right, but I’m not your man. I’m the Virgin. 

Craig: Oh, hi.

I’m a Howard Hollaback Declan O’Brian tell me something. This is a. Just Cody wouldn’t have to be old 

Todd: with.

Craig: I get, it seems like it’s like the joke falls flat in the context of the scene, but I felt like it was meant to be a funny joke for us, but it kind of fell flat for us to, ah, man, I don’t know, whatever. Uh, then we see him in his family. They’re staying at the local pub and the very first time we see his wife, she seems like a total bitch.

And I thought that that’s the character that she was going to be. And then beyond that scene, she just seems like a normal, fine lady. Like, I don’t know why she was introduced in that way for it to not go somewhere. And it reminded me of Hellraiser because the lead female in that movie is like a ball Buster.

And so I thought, oh, okay. You know, we’re going to get that same kind of character and maybe she’ll be villainous, or maybe we’ll be, you know, happy when she gets killed or is it, but, but then again, like I said, in that one scene, she’s complaining. She doesn’t want to be there. They’ve been there for too long.

She wants to get out of that. Howard promises or that there’ll be leaving soon. They’ve been 

Todd: there for a month and a half. I was like, holy crap. That’s a long, I mean, vacation, travel, whatever that’s long. Yeah. 

Craig: I mean, I guess it’s for his work, but still, um, and yeah. And then the, and then immediately they’re walking down the street and everything’s fine and she’s totally fine.

And they’re like flirty with one another and they’re like, they are, full-out making out in the street 

awkwardly, 

Todd: making out full 

Craig: fucking face. It’s always so funny to me in these movies because maybe I just kissed different than other people, but it’s, it’s funny to me when. People go to kiss mouths wide open, like, ah, here I come 

Todd: right to open mouths, like latching onto each other and then the tongue just move it around.

And, and usually, you know, movies. I don’t know, they kind of like, they don’t, they don’t make that last or at least it’s gotta be like, you know, if it’s a passionate love making scene is a little different, but this is just, they’re making out in the middle of the road for no really good reason, except they got some Q dialogue going, but it is uncomfortably long and they are like sucking major face.

And then that happens again later. And then you see it on a television screen later. And I thought did Clive Barker give the direction that just sex needs to drip off the screen. And that’s just how the director interpreted it. Cause he got a totally wrong, 

Craig: it’s not sexy. It’s weird. Like I don’t, I I’ve never, if, if I, if somebody came at me like that, like I, my instincts would be to back away like, whoa, wait a sec.

You do in there, buddy. Let’s slow it down a little bit. Right? But anyway, they are interrupted by this little short old woman in a red coat. That looks exactly like the red coat from don’t look now. And, and she interrupts them and walks by. And the wife is like, she reminds me of somebody like was, was don’t look now a big enough cultural phenomenon for people to get this reference.

Todd: I don’t know, man, but it, like, I thought that would be significant because she keeps saying stuff like that. Right. She keeps saying, oh, something looks familiar or I’m getting a funny feeling. And earlier he refers to, you know, when she’s saying she wants to go. He’s saying, well, don’t, you want to stick around and explore your Irish heritage.

And you know, this is the land of your forebears and things like that. I thought there was going to be something in her past that comes out or that some clues going to come from her. Maybe she has some childhood memory of taking a trip there or something, but there’s nothing. 

Craig: It seems like there should be, it seems like there’s something missing based on the way the movie ends.

It seems like there’s something missing. Like there should be something about her. I don’t know. I skipped over the part where RA had kills a local and, but then spares his pregnant wife. We already talked about it. Like the monster kills. Yeah. He kills the husband and then he ran pages through their house and like chases the woman all the way up stairs and claws at her.

Uh, abdomen, which reveals her pregnant belly, which he then just kind of gently touches and then it cuts away and we, and another local finds her later, but she’s like crazy. This was unexplained too. Like anybody who kind of sees and has a direct encounter with the monster is either so terrified that they are incapable of speed.

Or they’re affected in some way. I don’t know. It’s, it’s weird. And it’s unexplained. 

Todd: You also get the feeling that RA had was just as interested in making a big mess of the house as he was. Here’s an awful lot of close-ups of him just like pushing things off the counter and you know, like, like he’s a cat, you know, just like setting stuff up on the floor.

Every scene he’s in is like this 

Craig: lots of close-ups of the aftermath, like spaghetti falling off the counter.

So weird. Oh God, we see him dragging the corpse of that guy that he killed through the woods. And then he stocks a mobile home park 

Todd: for a little bit. Yeah. He’s really into this mobile home park. This is where everything else takes place. Like 

Craig: yeah. Apparently in rural, uh, Ireland, there are whole communities of people who live with.

Mobile homes. I don’t know. Maybe, maybe that’s the thing, like in America we have trailer parks and technically, you know, those can be moved. But when I say mobile home, I mean the type that are our vehicles that are meant to be, you know, driven around and they’re small. I mean, I w I think of them for camping or, or vacation and, and, you know, fun, you know, that that’s great, but it seems like this is a community of people who live in these tiny little mobile homes, but I thought it might be 

Todd: just a budgetary thing.

They didn’t have money for big ones. Yeah. Plus they get a tip one over later. Right. So they got to get a small enough one that they can tip over. I think what Andy and Katrina, who are sitting on a sofa about one foot away from Katrina’s little brother who turns out to be Sean and he’s playing army. And they’re absolutely sucking face, just like the previous couple was, and he gets pissed off at the boy for no really good reason.

God blocking, 

Craig: blocking yet. Basically. What did he think was going to, did he just want the kid to just sit there while they. Why 

Todd: are you in there? Like, why 

Craig: is he in there? Like somebody needs to leave if this is going to progress. 

Todd: Well, they eventually do, and they go into the woods and, uh, it’s the same sort of deal.

We see some ups of the, of the raw had Rex’s feet, stopping a toy and dragging that body into the woods where he hangs it up. And I guess it’s munching on. Sort of like an animal, I suppose, or he’s got a feed on this thing over time. And so they run to eventually run across it and they run away. And as they’re running through, I feel like man, they wandered further into the woods that I thought it takes him forever to run out.

And as, just as they’re coming to the edge of it, RA had jumps out and gets the guy. But the girl doesn’t seem to notice at first because she’s holding his hand. She runs towards, towards this group of people who are now in the campground, huddled around Sean, who has also seen raw head and can’t speak. Um, and they’re like, what’s going on?

What’s going on? She goes in the woods. I’m and my, my, and then she, she holds up his hand and she still holding onto his severed hand. That was. That 

Craig: was funny, how we’re just happens to be taking a walk, to get some air in the woods. And he sees rah head like standing a top of hill, just standing there. And then he looks away for a second and he looks back and he’s gone.

There are several people dead at this point. Um, cause they found the farmer, the, the first locally killed and now Andy, there’s several people dead. So a party of armed men are like searching the forest and they find the bodies. And the next day the police are investigating. 

Todd: Howard goes to the police station, but I saw wasn’t 

Craig: human.

I beg your pardon. I don’t think it was, it was very tall. 

Todd: I mean much too big to be a man. How big eight foot, nine 

Craig: foot. I really don’t have time to. I saw this. Just let me speak. Okay. I saw it and what’s more. It’s showing me this thing was watching me. It fixed me with these meme burning red eyes. All right.

I know how this sounds believe 

Todd: me and I, I know, but I saw it. Was this on the road? No, 

Craig: no. I was in a road. It was a up a field 

Todd: Capitol. Then you saw Catherine. Oh, I know 

Craig: what cattle looked like for Christ’s sake doctors. So he goes back to the church to 

Todd: talk to,

it will be a previously asked to see the church records and he’s like, oh, I think that could be a range. And then says, no, sorry. A for some reason the church records mysteriously went missing. Sorry, can’t help you old boy, CLA Eddie. Didn’t 

Craig: like, he’s like, oh, I guess somebody stole them. Like I care like, nah, no.

Wow. We weren’t really using them. Anyway. 

Todd: The 12 people in our congregation knew who they are. It’s probably all we need to do, but then he runs into the crazy old O’Brian right. 

Craig: Again, who’s just kind of like looking on menacingly, like it’s so melodramatic. He is, and, and it’s, it’s funny to me because O’Brians character.

Is that he just says all the time

and he’s supposed to be, you know, a vicar or a deacon or something. I dunno. And he’s always in the church, but when Howard goes back and he’s like examining the raw head window and he translates some phrase there that says like, death goes in fear of what it can not be. Which again, who knows seemingly significant, but never referred to again.

No. And then out of nowhere, like, cause he’s, Howard’s taking pictures of the window with a Polaroid camera and he turns around and O’Brian is right there and O’Brian just grabs his camera, throws it on the ground and snatches it and tells him to get the

hour. It’s like, what is your 

Todd: problem?

Craig: Oh man, that’s hilarious. But then this kind of surprised me because Howard and his family go to leave town. I’m like really? I thought he was like the main guy. And Elaine thinks that she sees raw head standing in a field, but it turns out it’s just a scarecrow, the little boy from the forest, you know, draws a picture of raw head for the cops.

So they’re like, oh, maybe that Howard guy, maybe, maybe he was talking to 

Todd: someday, he must have been onto something after all. He said, why is this kid drew red eyes here? 

Craig: Uh, but then the family who appears to have been driving for a while, in fact, they’ve been driving for so long that they’re like, oh, it’s too far to turn back because minty has to pay.

And they’ve already gone too far to turn back, but it’s also too far to wait to get to the next town. So they pull over in this field, so minty can go pee and she runs off behind a Bush or whatever. And, um, obviously, you know, we’re thinking, oh, she’s in trouble because she’s out there by herself. And she screams and her parents run and it turns out that she had just peed on a dead rabbit, scared her, but while the parents are attending to her, Robbie’s in the car, reading a comic book and RA had shows up and attacks him and takes him.

And the dad sees it happen and the dad runs to the car. And when he gets there, they’re both gone, but there’s there’s blood and, uh, a shoe. And again, I was thinking, oh, They’re not going to kill the main character’s kid, but they did. 

Todd: He did. Yeah. Yeah. He’s treated as dead from here on out. Um, which, you know, he really shouldn’t assume, well, I guess he must’ve seen something we didn’t.

Right. Cause you know, it doesn’t, I mean, it shows the kid getting attacked, but we don’t see where I had like, you know, biting into his jugular, like he does for everybody else. Right. It’s possible that the dad saw that. Um, right. Anyway. Yeah. So he’s back yelling at the cops at the police station and the cops are, uh, sort of like, oops, I 

Craig: just, that last scene, I thought it was really strange.

I was like, I guess RA had gets around. Like he gets 

Todd: pretty far out there. 

Craig: I mean he’s tall. He’s got long legs. Okay. All right. You’re right back back to the cops. 

Todd: That’s true. It’s not a runner. Yeah. By the way, I saw an interview by the guy who played this. It was a German guy who didn’t even who had doesn’t even speak any English.

And he was only 19 years. Yeah. He was like 19. At the time, he was asked by some producer to come out for a movie where they needed a German, a person who spoke German and he went out, but then they, they ended up using them or not using them for something. They send them back. But that same producer called them back up for this movie.

And he spent apparently a lot of time training just to be able to do the physical stuff. It’s really hard to believe that there’s a 19 year old, a tall, 19 year old. Um, in this costume, but, uh, they wanted 

Craig: Peter Mayhew, but they couldn’t afford him. Peter Mayhew was Chewbacca. Right, right, right. Yep. Howard goes back to the cops and they are actively investigating and Howard’s like, he’s territorial or I don’t know.

And the cops are like, okay, well, you know, we definitely are going to look into this, but we just w we’re just going to have to wait for him to show up again. And Howard’s like, I’m not just going to wait. I’ll, I’ll just take care of it myself.

Todd: Well, his wife is quite catatonic corner. Actually. I thought his acting wasn’t too bad. I liked his acting. He’s not bad. 

Craig: He goes back to the church window again and crazy. O’Brien gives exposition like the most obvious. Bland expeditions. He’s like they buried him alive. That’s the 

Todd: devil. They put 

Craig: him in the earth, deep down.

He taught, he die. You see taught that could forget about him, but the dark ones come back. They always do. Is when the slips to fight, what does it represent? 

Todd: Nothing. The devil is one. 

Craig: Oh, well, that explains it. Thanks for clear in that app, 

Todd: Howard, you know, he’s got these Polaroids and he looks up at the window and he had earlier talked to, um, the pre the father, father, father coops, and, uh, had asked him about, like you said earlier, this was when he was saying I’m investigating old pagan rituals and old pagan history.

And you know, how churches had been built on, you know, things that were previously important pagan sites. So there’s that implication that this church has some deep secret and its history because of its very existence. Uh, they are in Ireland, right? And of course these mysterious of stained glass windows, and he asks about those.

He says, are they original to the churches as well? You know, they’ve been rebuilt several times. The church has been damaged over the years and they’ve been restored. So who knows, but there’s one piece. Stained glass window would that has the demon in it where it looks like there’s a hooded figure. Who’s holding something up.

That’s beaming light down on that thing and making that thing cower or whatever. And, uh, it’s just white. It’s just a white piece. I thought it was like a stone or something, but he, he figures out that there’s a piece that was just put in the wrong place. And there’s a piece that looks like, again, it’s not anything that really shines any more light on this for us though.

It’s just, and that’s another problem, right? It’s like a little statue or something who knows what it is. It’s just a little shape. He’s like, that’s it that’s it. But it doesn’t help him. It doesn’t help us because we haven’t seen it before. We’re not going to see it again till the very end. It’s not like anybody’s going to be looking for and go, 

Craig: aha, that’s it?

No, and he’s like, there’s something there’s something missing there. Um, that must be important. And then he’s like, oh, here it is. That’s something like

Todd: he even says, and I think that’s even in complete, right. He seems to allude that there’s even more stuff missing or in the wrong spot, but that doesn’t ever come up again either. It’s so frustrating, 

Craig: but anyway, yeah, randomly O’Brian coot touches the Walter and gets burned by it too. Now did the, I guess that the burning powers of the altar must have only activated when rah had came out, like the priest hasn’t ever touched the altar?

I don’t know. Uh, back at the motor park, a tiny camper full of people

is attacked and overturned. And they’re like, was that an earthquake?

Uh, some old guys sticks his head out the window and RA had dragged them out and eats his face. And then this is kind of, I guess, The climax cause like he, he kills, he kills a bunch of people. 

Todd: He just goes on a rampage, you know, slamming them one at one at a time against the trailer, biting their jail. You are pulls a woman out the window, which conveniently tears her whole shirt off.

So we get our requisite boobs in the movie. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean just, you know, silly it’s. Ridiculous. I mean, it’s, it’s so ridiculous. It’s funny. I mean, it definitely made me smile. I’m like, get those boobs in there. You know, I don’t care how ridiculous it has to be. Just, you know, a full topless shot. We gotta, we gotta have.

One of those, 

Todd: there’s an explosion. Decapitations the cops show up. 

Craig: Nothing seems to be where, like, you know, some guys shooting at them, nothing seems to work your, yeah. But Howard is convinced that the towns, people know something like they’re hiding something, which I think he’s wrong. Like I felt like he just don’t seem to know anything.

He just makes this random speculation. And that’s why I hadn’t thought of it. But I thought that your comparison to the Wicker man made a lot of sense because that’s kind of suggested like there is this something ancient there, maybe some pagan sect or something. And it would make sense if the towns, people knew something about it and were kind of keeping secrets or we’re in on it in some way, but it’s 

Todd: not some memory or some legend, you know, at least a legend of the boogeyman.

You tell the kids or something like that. It’s just. Well, then the attacks, the cops, and they all kind of scattered, but he gets inspector. Was it guessing? Expect you’re kissing? And I was surprised cause I thought, oh my God, they’re going to kill the inspector. That’s interesting. No, he holds him up and then he stares at him with his little spinny spinny, glowing eyes, a seems to hypnotize them, I guess.

And he drops him and one’s runs off. So it’s just, there’s an odd inconsistency of why. Let him go hypnotized. Instead. I just don’t understand his emo. You know, he he’s he’s goes on these rampage and kills people. He avoids the pregnant women and just some random women from time to time and then other people who kind of hypnotizes and let’s go, you know, it kind of seems to allude, maybe he has some grand plan or something like that.

Or maybe he has some more godlike powers than we give them credit for. So he’s kind of like altering the future by doing this as the best I could come up with. Anyway, 

Craig: the detective does end up kind of helping RA head out later, but like, did he foresee that like, is he just, is he planting just certain people to kind of be his minions?

It’s all very unclear, but we already know that O’Brien is like his minion or something. And the next scene. Oh, Brian. Raw head in the church yard and raw head gives O’Brien a golden shower. This part I was so like, I was like, what is this really in this movie? Because right. Because maybe whoever was behind filming this, didn’t see, I can’t imagine how you can’t.

This part was so like grossly erotic and sexual, and I kind of can’t believe that they got away with it in 1986. Like now if it were just gross out, that’s one thing, but there is definitely. An erotic element to it, 

Todd: like, oh yeah. He kneels in front of him. He’s bear’s openness chest. Oh my God. 

Craig: I mean, 

Todd: I think if I’m not mistaken and I don’t remember where I read it, but it might’ve been talking about the story that this was more of an supposed to be an ejaculation.

Maybe they changed it to peeing for the movie. I don’t know. Yeah. It really comes out of left field and this monster movie that some, I mean, you know, it’s just, it was shocking to me, but again, it’s such a dumb, big monster costume that it’s hard 

Craig: to, even the way that it’s shot. Like, I think that coot comes out and sees this.

So the way that it’s shot. It’s like from afar, from afar, it feels very voyeuristic. Like you stumbled upon something intimate that you shouldn’t be watching. And, uh, you know, it’s not at all shocking coming from Clive Barker because Clive Barker was his, I don’t know, into some kinky shit. And, uh, I know that, you know, this is a kink that some people are into and, you know, consenting adults, you do your thing, whatever.

You’re not hurting anybody. That’s that, whatever. Oh, but it’s so weird, but 

Todd: it’s kind of, it’s got like a baptism element to 

Craig: it. Yeah. Yeah. He, he even says that O’Brien says that later because coot runs inside the church and calls the cops and, uh, Howard over hears because Howard. Police precinct or whatever.

So he hears the conversation. So he knows something’s going on at the church. And then, uh, RA had breaks into the church. O’Brian is just in there acting totally bat shit crazy. I see what he sees. He wants you to know, wants to baptize you 

Todd: out of your mind. I 

Craig: simply saw the light. 

Todd: You are one of God’s teachers.

Craig: God, God. He was here before Christ, before our civilization, he was king hair. It doesn’t care about you when it’s finished with you. What want to do with you

for the love of God upstairs? Fuck 

Todd: I get upstairs. I can’t keep God waiting. I also love how in the middle of their conversation, which is happening. I don’t know, like in a back hallway or something or in the basement, it just backs up and kind of randomly stumbled over some papers and looks down and goes, oh, the church records.

Craig: Um, man. So I think that it, it is suggested that that gross urination seen as kind of, you know, a demonic baptism or, or whatever, but they get back upstairs. It turns out O’Brien has completely desecrated and destroyed the sanctuary. A SWAT team arrives at the church from this little village, but it does 

Todd: nothing.

It just sits it’s outside waiting. 

Craig: Uh, w and RA had walks out with a mangled coot in his arms and like, hold them up above his head. And they’re like, we can’t shoot because old coot might still be alive. We don’t want to hit him while they’re standing there pointing their weapons, the hypnotized detective.

Like siphons gas out of one of the cars or something and, and dumps it all at their feet and, uh, sets all of them on fire and blows up their cars, 

Todd: including himself. I actually thought this was a pretty impressive scene. I think it took two days to shoot from what it said, but I was really impressed at how many people were actually on fire and uh, in the scene, including him in which, you know, he’s, he kneels down in front of him.

He goes for you for you. It’s all for you. It’s so omen. Right? It’s just like the old man. Uh, 

Craig: yeah. Yeah, it is. That’s true. I hadn’t thought about that, but 

Todd: it feed, I thought that was kind of an impressive little scene from an effects, you know, standpoint. It was not, it’s a, it’s a big deal to have all those people on fire.

That’s 

Craig: true. I mean, you can. Tell that they’re wearing fire suits, but whatever. I mean, that’s still, yeah. That’s that’s yeah. That’s, that’s impressive. Howard shows up, he finds all the carnage at the church. Um, right before he dies, coot tells Howard check the altar and then he dies. I 

Todd: shouldn’t could’ve checked the alter himself a long time ago.

You see what’s burning his hand. Right? 

Craig: So Howard uh, goes into the church. He fights with O’Brien for a little while. Then he touches the Howard touches. The altar gets burned, has a vision of nothing just like blurriness opens the alter. It turns out the altars, this big box and he opens it and he finds this stone talisman.

Is vague. Like it almost kind of looks like a Buddha a 

Todd: little bit. It looks like a woman, I think, with a, with an open belly or something. 

Craig: Yeah, yeah. Or vagina. Um, maybe, but it, uh, it’s not articulated. I mean, it’s kind just, it’s it’s egg shaped with abstract. Yeah. Some, some vague suggestions of a person O’Brian runs away to tell raw head that he opened the altar and then Howard comes out and confronts raw head in the church yard and is holding the talisman in front of him.

Like he expects it to do something. In fact, he’s talking to. Okay buddy. Let’s let’s let’s do something. Yeah. RA had kills O’Brien and nothing is happening with the talisman and raw head, you know, hits Howard Howard falls to the ground, drops the talisman. At which point, Elaine arrives out of nowhere. She picks up the talisman out of nowhere.

Yeah. How would she even know what it was, where it came from? I mean, I guess in theory, she saw it getting knocked out of Howard’s hand. I don’t know, but she holds it up and it opens up and blue light comes out and like kind of starts attacking wrecks. And this is very 1980s. Light effects. I don’t know how to describe it.

It reminded me of the effects from like troll and some other movies we’ve seen basically it’s animated. Yeah. 

Todd: Animated lightning and lights and blue things flipping around. I think some of it’s animated, some of it’s probably some kind of like weird optical effect thing going on. And that goes on for a long time and it, you know, it was big and impressive, but it was also like super confusing, like what is happening, what’s happening.

Like there’s beams just going everywhere. And the like the tombstones are lighting up and it’s bouncing off the tombstones, but then it’s not. And then, then there’s this cool, like tracking shot where it’s like, we’re following a beam of light as it’s whizzing around through the tombstones and hitting him and all that.

But it just, it’s just a big mess if there was supposed to be some kind of connection between the tombstones and the grave. That’s the 

Craig: thing. Cause it’s, it’s like it’s illuminating the. Markers kind of all around the cemetery, like almost like forming a circle or a semi-circle or something. And, and then an apparition of a woman emerges for a second.

Doesn’t really do anything. 

Todd: It just kind of matches what was in the, it was like a big, long hooded figure with a red coat or something like that. Like a red little red riding hood kind of person kind of that matches what was in the, um, stained glass window. I think in the, that was 

Craig: supposed to somehow be connected to the lady in the red coat from earlier.

But if it was, I don’t understand. 

Todd: Yeah. And again, so does it, was there some secret knowledge that his wife sort of held? Was it, you know, that she recognized that that was familiar, that she knew to pick up this stone, that this thing kind of comes out of her as it’s part of her heritage? Like what’s the deal?

I just don’t know. He yells out, oh, a woman. It had to be a woman. Yeah. 

Craig: Howard had said sometime earlier in the movie, again, it was like a throwaway line, but he was talking to Elaine when she was complaining about being there. And he’s like, well, you should like being here. This is the Homeland of your people.

So is she like some sort of descendant of somebody? Oh my gosh. It’s just, it’s just so vague that nothing is explained so many loose ends and the light eventually kind of all comes together and comes down on raw head. And I actually liked these, um, affects, but more for nostalgic purposes than anything else.

It, it feels very eighties, but I kind of like. 

Todd: But then Howard picks up a shovel and comes towards it. I’m like, no, do not interfere with whatever’s going on. Like, but apparently that was a key element. Was it for him to whack him with a shovel, I guess, for good measure, because it, then the stone underneath him breaks.

He’s, he’s fallen, I guess, on a stone. It’s almost like a, an open grave with a stone over it. And that breaks and RA had falls down into it and. The statute slips out of her hand at the same time and rolls in there with him, which I wasn’t sure if that was going to be a good thing or a bad thing, but then, you know how all knowing Howard just takes her in hand by the hand and says, it’s over now, it’s all over now.

And they walk out of the graveyard. I’m like, are you sure? Are you sure you understand what’s going on here? Are you sure it’s over? And also what is somebody going to cover that up? Or, you know, what’s great. What’s going to go on, you know, a little unsure and then we get the very end scene, which is almost just the obligatory horror movie scene where, um, their son’s grave is there.

And the kid, I think it was the kid from the trailer park, right? Yeah, 

Craig: it is. And it’s, it’s, it’s not their son’s grave. It’s Andy’s grave, the oh, and the boyfriend. 

Todd: Oh, yeah. Okay. So it’s Andy’s grave. So it’s that kid. It’s the sister’s brother or whatever, putting flowers on his grave. And as he starts to walk away the camera pans back over kind of another grave and suddenly 

Craig: Ryan’s face pops up.

Yeah. Out of, uh, out of the ground, right? The end. It was silly. I mean, it was a silly movie, but in the long run, I didn’t hate it. It was fine. We’ve seen much worse and I could see God all my, you know, stupid hypothetical’s. But you know, if, if you were getting together, gather with friends to watch. Goofy horror movies.

This would be perfectly fine. It’s a popcorn movie. Um, there’s, there’s nothing to be taken seriously. You can’t ask a lot of questions because you’re not going to get any answers if you’re willing to just roll with it and just appreciate it for what it is. A schlocky monster movie. It’s fine. And in certain environments and contexts, I’m sure it could be fun if you’re looking for something, you know, with substance.

Yeah. It’s this, isn’t it. But it’s something that’s been on our radar for a really long time. It’s something that I’ve been really curious about. Um, and now my curiosity is sated, and so I at least appreciate that. Um, I am a fan of Barker. Um, I’m a fan of his, his writing. I’m a fan of a lot of his, uh, other work in film.

The completist in me is, you know, satisfied to have watched this. Uh, I can’t give it a glowing recommendation, but it’s not terrible. And if you’re curious, it’s only an hour and a half long, so 

Todd: that’s true. I mean, I would come out and say that if the monster had been better, like again, on the level of pumpkin head or something like that, if the effects have been better, that would, that alone would have improved this movie by 50.

You know, we spent this whole time kind of talking about these little elements that are a little confusing, where it seems like there was a dangling thread here or there alluding to something that doesn’t seem to go anywhere. There’s a lot of that in this movie that really hints at a deeper mythology and maybe threads that could tie together whether they were intended by Barker.

And he just, you know, because it’s a movie and not a book you’ve got to kind of leave things, let things go sometimes. Or whether just the ineptitude of, you know, the director, he wasn’t on set for any of this marker had very little, almost no creative. He said no creative input after writing the script.

So, you know, maybe those are things that just were in the wrong hands and could have been fleshed out more. I would say it is kind of ripe for a competent re. I’d be interested in seeing this movie done competently. I 

Craig: would too, but I don’t know if now is the right moment because these types of monster movies are not invoke right now.

They’re they’re being made, but they’re being made on the cheap and going straight to video on demand, which is fine. I watched them. Yeah. I watch a lot of, uh, these kinds of, uh, movies and, and some are good and clever and creative. Most of them are crap, but whatever, that’s fine. But I, I just don’t, I don’t see this finding a wide audience right now.

I don’t see this opening in theaters right now. Yeah, 

Todd: I think you’re right. But I also feel like if you were to tone down the monster aspect of it and you were to focus on more of the. Ancient evil mystery. Maybe the town is in on it. You know, maybe they’re keeping it secret. Those kinds of movies are doing well now, you know, so I do wonder if you had a bit of that element in there and then you were just a little bit more judicious with the monster and the killings and things.

Right. Find 

Craig: a good battle, make it something more like Midsummer or apostle, something like that. Yeah. I could see how that would work, 

Todd: but anyway, yeah, I think I share your views on it. It’s schlocky. Uh, that you could have fun within the right context, but it’s not quite as fun as the intentionally humorously shocked slocky movies that we often review that are just, you know, they’re just so silly that they’re so such a joy to make fun of.

Right. 

Craig: Because they don’t take themselves seriously. 

Todd: Right? Yeah. This one yeah. Takes itself a little too seriously. All right. Well, thank you again, John, for the request. We’re so glad that we did that. If you have a request for us, please send it to us on any one of our mediums. You can just search two guys in a chainsaw podcast and you can find our Facebook page, our Twitter feed our website to guys that read for you that.com and now our Patrion page certainly have a Patrion campaign running and growing from unity over there.

If you’re interested in supporting us and keeping this podcast going, please consider becoming a patron and all the details and goodies are over there. All right, until next time I am Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Our first request decided by our Patrons is a throwback to the classic Satanic cult pics of the late 70’s, early 80’s from the mind of Ty West. The House of the Devil is a mixed bag, but it does perfectly mimic the style and genre.

The House Of The Devil (2009)

Episode 296, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd [00:00:25]:
I’m Todd.

Craig [00:00:25]:
And I’m Craig.

Todd [00:00:26]:
Well, today we take on another request. This was requested by Freddie, Darren and Dave. Therefore, we put it, along with a few other films in front of our patrons on Patreon and asked them, which of these would you like us to see? And overwhelmingly, they chose our movie today, the House of the Devil. And no, we are not doing the 1896 George Elias movie, La Manois Deablay, which is, by the way, the very first on screen appearance of a vampire. But no, that one’s only like 3 minutes long. It wouldn’t make for a very long episode. So instead, Todd, we’re doing the 2009 Thai west movie, which is a bit of a retro throwback to those movies of the alone. I enjoyed it.

Todd [00:01:20]:
Now, I had seen this movie before. I watched this movie again during one of those months where I challenged myself to watch a horror movie a day during the month of October. I went back and I looked at my review and at the time I really didn’t care for it. What I wrote at the time was that it was really slow and the payoff took a long time to get to. Up until then, it was more or less just kind of boring and I thought long and drawn out and maybe a little too stylish for its own good. But this time, watching it a second time, I guess maybe I was just more in the mood. Because honestly, this is my kind of movie, right? I mean, this is the kind of movie I really like. I think it’s very reminiscent of old italian horror movies, those satanic type horror movies of the late seventy s and early 80s, like the Omen.

Todd [00:02:11]:
And it’s deliberate. Ty west, the director, very much tried to mimic that style and make a throwback movie that takes place in it seems to be 1983. Sure feels earlier than that.

Craig [00:02:25]:
It does. It feels more late seventy s, but late 70s, early 80s, all kinds around the same time.

Todd [00:02:33]:
There’s no clear definition point where we go from as soon as 1980 comes, everybody needs to put on all their spandex and neon.

Craig [00:02:41]:
Right.

Todd [00:02:42]:
Dancing to Debbie Gibson. Right. We get a couple years between to make that transition. But yeah, what I really enjoyed about this movie actually was that it was a bit of a throwback, actually. Strong suspiria vibes from it. And so those movies did tend to take their time and be a little slower. And I guess just this time around I was more in the mood for it. So I think I enjoyed it a lot more.

Todd [00:03:06]:
How about you, Craig? Have you seen this one before?

Craig [00:03:09]:
I have. I’ve seen it before. I imagine I probably saw it around the time that it came out. Or at least around the time that it was released on video. I don’t remember really what my impression was of it at the time. I think I thought it was fine. It is kind of a slow burn, but I think that’s intentional. Like you said, it’s very reminiscent of other films of this style.

Craig [00:03:33]:
First of all, it’s shot on 16 millimeter, right? So it’s got that kind of grittier video feel.

Todd [00:03:44]:
You mean like the film grain type feel, right?

Craig [00:03:47]:
Yeah, right away. And that’s not the only throwback. I mean, the opening credit sequence is very reminiscent of movies from that era where you’ve got the bold yellow typeface introducing each actor with their character name and freeze frames. A long shot of our main character kind of walking through a campus and freeze frames as the names come up. It feels very much in the vein of those types of satanic panic movies that were coming out at this time in response to Rosemary’s baby. Well, just the cultural zeitgeist in general. The movie opens with a statistic, which I have no idea if it’s true or not, but it sounds true. I believe it.

Craig [00:04:39]:
It says, during the 1980s, over 70% of american adults believed in the existence of abusive satanic cults. Another 30 rationalized the lack of evidence due to government cover ups. The following is based on true, unexplained events. Now, that’s.

Todd [00:04:57]:
Yeah, true events is bullshit. But the rest of it. I remember the tail end of the satanic panic when people.

Craig [00:05:06]:
I do, too, vaguely. I remember people worrying about there being like, our children being indoctrinated with satanism in preschools and just weird cults and ritual sacrifices and black masses and orgies and all this kind of crazy stuff. That sounds like great material for a horror movie. But there was a genuine concern that this was really going on under the surface of american society, which on the one hand, seems so stupid. Like, why would anybody think that? But look at. Especially in America, I’m not as worldly as you are, but in America, there are these things like these. These far right conspiracy theories. Pizza gate and all of know the Illuminati.

Todd [00:06:08]:
They exist on the. You know, Bill Gates is out there to murder everybody and put microchips in.

Craig [00:06:16]:
It sounds to me. It sounds ridiculous, but there are really people out there who believe in these things. I don’t get it. I feel like they must have a screw loose, but that doesn’t keep them from getting into Congress.

Todd [00:06:33]:
Sadly.

Craig [00:06:34]:
Right. So I think, know, like you said, like Rosemary’s baby, like the omen, the Exorcist, all these other movies, it feels very much like it legitimately could have come from that era, almost like it’s kind of a forgotten film from that era. And I think that in his attempt to do that, and I think that he does it out of a love for those kind of films, I think he’s successful. On that note. Yeah. By today’s standards, it’s pretty slow, but it does a lot to establish atmosphere and suspense. And then there is a payoff. The last 1015 minutes get pretty exciting, but you do have to be patient and wait for it.

Craig [00:07:19]:
And I know we’ve talked about this movie has come up in our conversations before, and you have specifically said you didn’t want to do it, and that may have been based on your first experience, but it always kind of surprised me because you like ty west. One of his other movies that we did, you recommended to me the innkeeper.

Todd [00:07:38]:
Oh, God.

Craig [00:07:38]:
And we both really liked that. It, too, was very suspenseful and atmospheric and haunted housey. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd [00:07:46]:
But the difference between the innkeepers and this movie is this movie is basically focusing around one girl pretty much the whole time. The innkeepers is very much kind of a buddy movie where we’re with two people in that inn. And so it’s like, yeah, the ghost story to me, for that movie almost took a bit of a backseat to just the characters were so interesting and fun, and seeing them hang out by themselves in this. In there was this other level to it, whereas this movie, it’s just basically, this babysitter is in this house for a really long time. In fact, it takes her almost 30 minutes to even get to the House of the devil. And it takes about 30 minutes to get to what you would see in a movie now. Would intentionally whip through in, like, the first five, right? Literally like the first five. I think it’s almost a mantra right now that you need to get right to the point as fast as possible and avoid all this exposition and let the character stuff kind of come out later.

Todd [00:08:48]:
Whereas I feel like earlier movies, particularly the movies of the 70s, which many people would argue is a renaissance just for film in general. Oh, my God, there were so many interesting movies in the. Was at least a thread of them, obviously very exploitative, as well as movies that were just very character centric. And so they really took their time in the beginning to just hang out with, get to know some character, get interested in them, and then throw them into a messed up situation that they have to deal with now. It’s like we get the situation there right away. And I feel like most screenwriting teachers today will teach that you need to develop character through the problem, through the action, through whatever they’re going through. That’s how we’ll learn about the character. By seeing how they interact with others and how they deal with these problems.

Todd [00:09:39]:
Whereas this movie seems to take a long time setting up this girl, whose name is Samantha, as this pretty much broke, kind of despondent college student who just is worried about how she’s going to pay for anything down in her money. And I’m not sure what else. But in any case, she just seems very lonely and very sad. But not like depressed. Just like how many of us didn’t feel this way in college at some point?

Craig [00:10:04]:
Exactly. Just very real life. It seems like she’s living in the dorms. She is played, by the way, by an actress named Jocelyn Donahue, who I didn’t specifically recognize, but she’s done some stuff. She was in doctor’s sleep, which I love that movie. She was in a couple of the insidious movies. So she’s been around. She’s cute.

Todd [00:10:26]:
She’s got a very Karen Allen look in this movie. Don’t you think?

Craig [00:10:29]:
She does, yeah, I was just going to say she has a very 70s aesthetic. The pretty thin, long haired brunette. Every girl. She’s definitely a beautiful girl, but she looks like somebody that you would run into on a college campus.

Todd [00:10:45]:
Yeah. Authentic.

Craig [00:10:46]:
Yeah. She’s living in the dorms, but she wants to get out. And her roommate is a slob. And you just don’t even really see anything of her roommate. Aside from the fact that she’s like hoeing around and her half of the room is just disgusting. Whereas Samantha’s half of the room is pristine. So she wants to get out, but of know, just like all. Well, everybody I knew in college.

Craig [00:11:13]:
Money’s um. But she’s looking around the very opening scene, she’s looking at an apartment. Looks like a nice apartment. Probably more expensive than I could have afforded in college. And the realtor is played in a cameo by Dee Wallace. Yeah, I love her. And I had forgotten that she was in it. And so to see her was just a treat.

Craig [00:11:36]:
I knew. Even not remembering, I knew. I’m like, oh, she’s going to play the realtor in this first 5 minutes and then we’re never going to see her again. And that’s absolutely true. Even though she gets really high billing as she should, of course.

Todd [00:11:49]:
Right. Well, know d. Wallace is expensive nowadays, so he probably couldn’t afford to have her in the movie too long.

Craig [00:11:57]:
True.

Todd [00:11:57]:
Because I think the movie was made for, like, less than a million bucks. It was really, really low budget.

Craig [00:12:02]:
And for being so low budget, it actually looks good. Ty west, he wrote this. He directed it, he edited it. This was very much kind of a one man project. Now, obviously, that’s an overstatement. I’m sure there were many people working behind the scenes, but it’s his vision.

Todd [00:12:18]:
Yeah.

Craig [00:12:18]:
His sole vision, right? Very much. She gets this apartment. The realtor is ridiculously nice. Like, she agrees to waive all the deposits and things so long as she can put down the first month’s rent, which is $300, which is totally fair. But she doesn’t have $300, which does.

Todd [00:12:37]:
Make you wonder, what in the hell was her plan? I mean, you want to get out of the job so bad, you were as broke and as. Without funds as you say you are, forget about that first 300. How are you planning on coming up with the next 300?

Craig [00:12:49]:
Yeah, well, she says because she meets up, she walks around the campus for a long time so we can see the credits. And on a bulletin board, an outdoor college campus bulletin board, she sees a flyer that just says, babysitter needed. That’s it. Nothing else. And then it’s got the slips of paper you can tear off with the phone number on it.

Todd [00:13:09]:
So classic.

Craig [00:13:10]:
Yeah, well, and I mean, as far as I know, that’s still a thing. I remember checking out those bulletin boards for stuff all the time.

Todd [00:13:19]:
How long ago, Craig?

Craig [00:13:22]:
22 years. Something like that.

Todd [00:13:24]:
So this thing that was 22 years ago is still a thing?

Craig [00:13:28]:
Why wouldn’t it be? Really? What of advancements have we made? Yeah, but she calls the number from a payphone, and she gets an answering service, and she leaves her name and her number and says that she’s interested in the job or whatever, and she starts walking away from the payphone, and then it starts ringing. Now that. Right away, to me, I don’t know. Can you even do that? Can you? Star 69 a payphone.

Todd [00:14:00]:

Craig [00:14:21]:
She goes back, she answers the phone, and this very calm male voice says, we’re desperate. We really need somebody. Can you meet me on campus? I’m not terribly familiar, but I know I can find, like the student union building. And she says, yeah, I know where that is. I’ll meet you there. So she runs home real quick to grab something, and then she goes to the meeting place and she sits there for what seems like must be a very long time. And eventually she just gives up and leaves. She gets stood up and she goes and she meets with her friend whose name is Megan.

Todd [00:14:53]:
Megan?

Craig [00:14:54]:
Yeah, Megan, who’s played by Greta Gerwig. And I didn’t recognize her, but that name sounded so familiar. I’m like, why is that name so familiar? Well, she is a working actress, but actually right now she’s a very successful director. She just got a lot of acclaim for the newest iteration of little women. She also directed Ladybird, which was hugely successful on a critical level. She’s in production on a movie, like a live action Barbie movie, which has been in the works for a really long time.

Todd [00:15:28]:
Oh, wow.

Craig [00:15:28]:
So she’s really kind of hot in Hollywood right now. But it’s interesting. We talked about this before, too. Ty west is among this group of young filmmakers who seem two be peers and fans of one another. And they help each other out, and you see them pop up in one another’s movies all the time.

Todd [00:15:52]:
They’ll, like, write for each other or they’ll be actors in each other’s crazy, right?

Craig [00:15:57]:
Yeah, I think. I think I could be wrong. I think Ty west appeared in your next. He did, which was directed by another one of these guys, Adam Wingard, I think.

Todd [00:16:09]:
Yeah.

Craig [00:16:09]:
Uh huh. And then one of the actors from your next, one of the main actors, the guy who plays Crispin, is in this movie and has a pretty prominent role. I’m just fascinated. Like, I want to be their friend. They’re probably about our age.

Todd [00:16:28]:
It seems like they’d be cool.

Craig [00:16:30]:
Yeah, we should give them a call.

Todd [00:16:32]:
We should actually, we should get them on here. Do you think they get on our.

Craig [00:16:35]:
Podcast with, you know, I wouldn’t be surprised if they would, but. So Sam explains the whole thing to Megan. Megan apparently comes from a Wealthy family, and she’s like, you know, I can always just get my dad to give you some money, but she won’t take it. Yeah. She’s like, we’re not there yet. Let’s see what happens.

Todd [00:16:56]:
And can we talk for a second about the setting? I mean, they do a fantastic job with the limited budget of really setting this late 70s, early 80s tone. The pizza place where they’re sitting in and eating is just like a pizza place from my early childhood.

Craig [00:17:11]:
Oh, yeah.

Todd [00:17:12]:
The coke cups that are wax covered and stuff, which I guess they had to buy on eBay or something.

Craig [00:17:18]:
Right?

Todd [00:17:19]:
Just the hairstyles and everything. And that music at the beginning is so good.

Craig [00:17:27]:
It is. But it’s funny, it’s typical of these types of movies because it feels a little bit cheap. Like they had to hire an inexpensive composer for this original music. And it’s really just kind of the same melody on a loop. But it is perfect for the style.

Todd [00:17:47]:
Of movie because of nostalgia. Right. It sounds like an Argento movie. It sounds like, honestly, like the score from any one of those italian jalo movies that we watched, but sounds cheap deliberately. Just like the movie kind of looks cheap, right?

Craig [00:18:01]:
Yeah. But again, like, in a nostalgic way, it only looks cheap by today’s standards.

Todd [00:18:07]:
Correct?

Craig [00:18:07]:
By the standards of the day, it looks fine. I mean, that’s what movies looked like. Or at least the movies that I watched.

Todd [00:18:14]:
The low budget movies. These kind of movies. Yeah. They weren’t right.

Craig [00:18:19]:
I actually really enjoyed it.

Todd [00:18:21]:
Me, too.

Craig [00:18:22]:
It felt very retro, like I was watching something retro and cool.

Todd [00:18:26]:
Oh, I know. Same here. Same here. I like when they’re having this discussion over the pizza. And I thought it’d be significant, but. Oh, I think it is kind of an interesting, significant point. And this just occurred to me. But there’s this point in here where Megan is like, God, this pizza tastes awful today.

Todd [00:18:42]:
And I think that is a slight bit of foreshadowing for a later.

Craig [00:18:47]:
Yeah.

Todd [00:18:48]:
But anyway, like, one thing that she also says that’s quite foreshadowing is, did.

Craig [00:18:53]:
You go to the job board at the intern office? That ham face girl, you know, in my class? Yeah. She said there’s good stuff there sometimes. No, I haven’t been yet. Although it’d be cool to get something easy and under the table. That’s what was so good about the babysitter thing. Yeah, but it could have been awful. It could be from hell.

Todd [00:19:15]:
Yeah.

Craig [00:19:19]:
I love that. I don’t think I caught that the first time around, but it’s hilarious.

Todd [00:19:23]:
And she suggests just going around and tearing all of his posters down just to spite him.

Craig [00:19:27]:
Yeah, just because he was a dick. Just because he stood her up, which. That is kind of a dick move.

Todd [00:19:32]:
It is a dick move.

Craig [00:19:33]:
So she ends up getting a call from this guy again. Her roommate gives her a message that he’s called again. She calls back and he says, we are desperate. We need somebody tonight. It’ll be an easy job. And I’ll pay double what I would normally pay. I’ll pay $100 for the night. And she’s like, okay, cool.

Craig [00:19:53]:
He gives her the address. She gets Megan to drive her out there. Now it’s also out kind of in the middle of nowhere. And I like that Megan is the smart friend. She kind of seems like the fun, wild friend, too, but she’s also the smart one.

Todd [00:20:08]:
She’s street smart.

Craig [00:20:09]:
Yeah. You’re a young girl going out into the middle of nowhere. Two, do a job for these people you’ve never met. You don’t have any idea what is going to happen. She says, just let me stay with you. She’s like, you don’t have to split the money with me or anything. We’ll hang out. We’ll eat some pizza.

Craig [00:20:27]:
I just want to make sure everything’s kosher. Sam’s like, well, let’s play it. Let’s feel it out. Megan also confesses that she did go around and take down all of the other posters.

Todd [00:20:42]:
She has them all in the car. It’s funny, but at the same point, by now we are 30 minutes into the movie. It’s been a long time. And most of it has just been following Samantha around, looking pensive and laying down in her bed and staring up at the ceiling and going out, going to the bathroom, turning on all the sinks and crying, talking to herself in the mirror, walking around on campus some more. I mean, it’s a lot of that that feels like. And again, I think intentionally because it’s very typical of these old movies, but again, it feels like that kind of filler. All right, we get it. She is despondent in some way over money and stressed.

Todd [00:21:19]:
Yeah, it takes a while to get to this point. And I think with the first time I watched this movie, I just wasn’t in the mood. I’m like, oh, my know, just show me some action today. I mean, sure, I’m stuck in my apartment. I’ve been stuck in my apartment for almost a week now because I’m in China and they found some cases close to me and they told everybody in our community we got to stay inside. So I had nothing better to do. And I was really in the mood to just sit and enjoy something intensely.

Craig [00:21:45]:
Yeah, I think that’s right. I do think you have to be in the mood if you’ve got other things on your mind, if you’ve got other things to do, I can see how you would be looking at your watch. But if you’re in it, you explained your circumstance. So I’ll explain mine. I’m at work right now because I don’t know if this is just a thing that happens in my area or what, but it’s always been this way at my school. I only teach seniors. I only teach college level classes. So I only teach seniors.

Craig [00:22:20]:
And it’s the end of the school year, and our seniors get out at least a week before the rest of the students in order to give the teachers time to grade finals and final essays and stuff like that so that we can be prepared for graduation the following weekend. But what that means for me is I’m still contracted to be here, but I don’t have anything to do. I don’t have anybody to teach. My classes are over except sit here.

Todd [00:22:48]:
And talk about horror movies with me.

Craig [00:22:50]:
Except sit here with a sign on my door that says, I’m in a Zoom meeting.

Todd [00:22:56]:
You kind of technically are.

Craig [00:22:59]:
I mean, I am, right?

Todd [00:23:00]:
Yeah. We’re doing literary criticism here, Craig.

Craig [00:23:04]:
Right. So I have all the time. I read a book yesterday. I watched this movie yesterday. It’s all good. I’m here if anybody needs help. But I’m not like going around. Be like, hey, got something for me to do? Anyway, they get to the house and it’s a big.

Craig [00:23:22]:
I read some review that said it’s like the house of the Seven Gables, minus like three gables.

Todd [00:23:30]:
Four gables. That’s about right. It’s like a victorian style farmhouse, sort of like middle american. Typical stuff you’d find in Iowa if you drive through the really well kept neighborhoods.

Craig [00:23:44]:
Yeah, right. We should also mention that on the radio on the way there, they heard on the radio news about an eclipse that’s happening that night. And Megan’s even like, oh, my God, I’m so sick of hearing about this eclipse. Are you going to watch the eclipse?

Todd [00:24:05]:
Obviously we get sick of hearing about the eclipse. I know. Stick it in a bit much in.

Craig [00:24:10]:
A movie called the House of the Devil. Like, you have to imagine that this is going to in some way be significant. But they get to the house and they knock on the door. They go up there together. They knock on the door. And I loved this, actually may be one of my favorite shots, the way that it’s shot. He shoots the girls in profile from the side. And the door opens and a hand extends, I think, like for a handshake.

Craig [00:24:35]:
And a very calm, quiet male voice greets them. But you don’t see him right away. You just see them looking at him and just him kind of being concealed. And it’s not like it’s an extended moment. It’s just a matter of seconds, but it just kind of made his character all that much more mysterious from the get go. It was a little ominous.

Todd [00:25:01]:
They’re like, what does he look like? Why are they looking at him so weird? What’s going on? He’s tall. I think that’s the main thing. He’s really, really tall.

Craig [00:25:08]:
He’s played by Tom Noonan, and that name is so familiar to me. And I know that he’s done a lot, but I couldn’t peg him. I didn’t know where I knew him so much.

Todd [00:25:19]:
Well, he was in Robocop two. I remember him from FX. That’s like a mid 80s movie, but it’s a great movie. And then I think he also played the Frankenstein’s monster in the monster squad, of all things.

Craig [00:25:31]:
I think you’re right. That’s what I know him from. That’s what I know him from. Like you said, he’s tall, but he’s not particularly threatening looking.

Todd [00:25:44]:
He seems like quite the opposite, really. He seems like a kind of very soft spoken old man.

Craig [00:25:50]:
Sure. And he welcomes them. And he says, what a relief to get this night behind us. But he’s excited about the eclipse. But he immediately asks if he can speak to Sam alone.

Todd [00:26:03]:
I hope you don’t have a problem, but you have to understand that I’m only paying one person for their time.

Craig [00:26:09]:
Oh, yeah. No, Megan’s not staying. She’s just my ride. I don’t have a car, so she was just dropping me off.

Todd [00:26:19]:
Oh, good. And please forgive me for sounding rude. It’s just that my wife is very on edge about this whole situation.

Craig [00:26:32]:
You’re not being rude. I understand.

Todd [00:26:35]:
Unfortunately, no, I’m afraid you don’t.

Craig [00:26:39]:
Excuse me. And then he confesses. Two her. And he’s like, please don’t freak out, but we don’t really have a kid. He’s like, no, we do have a kid, but our kid has grown. What I really need you here for is to take care of my wife’s elderly mother. And he said, I advertised for elder care, but nobody is interested in doing that. For whatever reason, he’s like, so I thought maybe the babysitting angle would get somebody.

Craig [00:27:12]:
And you called, and another girl called, and I was going to go with the other girl, but as soon as she found out what the job really was, she took off. And I really desperately need you. And I really liked that. At first, Sam’s like, no.

Todd [00:27:35]:
She’S actually smart for a while.

Craig [00:27:36]:
She is.

Todd [00:27:37]:
She’s not a stupid person. She’s just maybe a little slightly more reckless or trusting than her friend.

Craig [00:27:43]:
Well, I think desperate. Too. Desperate. Desperate for money. And he just assures her, he’s like, you don’t even have to do anything. She’s fine. She can take care of herself. She’s very private.

Craig [00:27:56]:
If she needs anything, she’ll take care of it. He’s like, I just need you to be here in case there’s an emergency, somebody to call 911 and take care of things. And she still says, look, I don’t have any experience. I really don’t feel comfortable doing this. And he says, all right, I’ll double the money. I’ll give you $200. And she doesn’t really say anything. And he’s like, fine, $300.

Craig [00:28:22]:
And she just looks at him and says, 400 and $400 in the early 80s.

Todd [00:28:32]:
Crap.

Craig [00:28:33]:
Shit.

Todd [00:28:33]:
I would do it now. Would you do it for. I do it for 400. It’s 4 hours.

Craig [00:28:37]:
I know.

Todd [00:28:37]:
4 hours.

Craig [00:28:38]:
Yeah. You can’t blame her. She needs money. I thought when he hit 300, I’m like, bam, there’s the rent. You can’t turn that down. But I like that she knew he was desperate. She could get another $100 out of him. And she does.

Todd [00:28:54]:
Well, Megan’s pissed. But that’s what she says to her.

Craig [00:28:58]:
Megan, come on. Wait a second. Are you out of your mind? Do you remember the game plan? The game plan was, if they’re weird, we leave. This is beyond weird. It’s mental. You know, they lied to you. They lied to you. I know you’re right.

Craig [00:29:11]:
But it’s $400. It’s $400 for 4 hours. This equals first month’s rent and then some. And all I have to do is sit inside and watch tv. It’s too good to be true. Did you ever think, it is too good to be true? But she’s like, well, I’m doing it. You can be mad at me. I understand, but please just come back and pick me up at 1230.

Craig [00:29:33]:
And she says she will. Now, I’m not exactly clear on what happens next, it seemed to me was Megan’s plan to drive away, but to just drive a little bit down the road and wait in the car, I’m not sure.

Todd [00:29:46]:
It seemed like she was cursing something. I thought maybe something happened with her car. It was overheating or something. She needed to pull over. I’m not really sure, but she did seem to be cursing something. Or she needed her cigarette or. I don’t know what it was. But you’re right.

Todd [00:29:58]:
She ends up pulling away into a graveyard that they had passed by very, very near to the house and just sits there and pulls out a cigarette. You might be right, though. I didn’t really think about that part. But anyway, she pulls way into the graveyard, and she sits there and lights a cigarette, using the car cigarette lighter. I just love these little moments throw in there that are so retro. And then suddenly a hand shows up in her window that’s rolled down with a lighter and scares the crap out of her. And Megan being Megan, I would have thought, actually that she would have been a lot more freaked out here and a lot more distrustful of this guy. That’s one criticism I have here.

Todd [00:30:34]:
It seems a little against character that as soon as this guy shows up, he’s like a younger guy with a beard and whatever, and pretty friendly, but he’s out in the middle of nowhere in this graveyard in the middle of the night. Like, why would she be so trusting of him after. Oh, God, you scare me. All right, whatever. He’s like, it’s cold out here. Which seems to insinuate, like he wants her to let him into the car. And she just looks at him and goes, yeah, okay. And anyway, she lights her cigarette, she hands a lighter back to him, and he says, aren’t you the babysitter? And she says, no, I’m not.

Todd [00:31:14]:
And immediately he whips out a gun and blasts her in the head.

Craig [00:31:17]:
Blows her head off before you can even blink.

Todd [00:31:21]:
It’s gross and sudden and interesting. And that gets your attention. Like a movie that has been so slow up to this point, and you’re just kind of wondering, all right, well, it’s a creepy guy in a creepy house. And, yeah, we get. I mean, even in the house it’s slow. That whole bit was she was eating candy. I thought that’d be significant. Anyway, at the end of the day, she gets her head completely blown off.

Todd [00:31:40]:
So suddenly, whoa, shit’s getting real now. And the guy then hops in and starts to pull the car away. So, like, okay, something very sinister is happening. Probably has something to do with the eclipse, right?

Craig [00:31:51]:
But then the next, what, half hour is really just Sam walking around the house, occupying herself? Yeah. And I say that, and that sounds super boring, and I guess you could argue that it is, but the house, it looks great. I don’t know. It looks like some old spinster lady has lived there and hasn’t changed anything in 20 years.

Todd [00:32:24]:
It’s a classic looking house. It’s got stained glass windows and the whole nine yards. These really elaborate wooden banisters. Kind of a second level. It has sort of a little greenhouse in the second floor. On the outside, you’re taken past all these parts. Oh, she flips open a light, and there’s a pool table in there. And then she goes crazy, like, putting on her headphones and dancing around and playing pool.

Todd [00:32:48]:
There’s, like, a slight pool montage. I think they’re trying to make the house into, like, a character. Yeah, maybe, but it never really achieves that. I think, again, I felt very suspiria vibes here, but not in a good way. Like, suspiria has some real tension and some real mysterious things happen.

Craig [00:33:09]:
Right.

Todd [00:33:10]:
And here it’s kind of the same thing, but without the tension.

Craig [00:33:14]:
Right. I think you’re absolutely right. And it’s trying to set up this haunted house vibe. It’s very dark. It’s dimly lit. There are places, like when she’s in the kitchen, the lights are on and it’s bright. But the rest of the house is pretty dimly lit. I think they’re trying to go for the haunted house vibe.

Craig [00:33:32]:
She’s hearing things, but nothing so bizarre that you would really be terribly concerned. Like, first of all, it’s an old house. Old houses make noise. Secondly, she knows she’s not alone. There is somebody else in the house. So it could be the old woman making noise. This whole thing. The old woman upstairs was giving me major burnt offerings vibes.

Craig [00:33:59]:
Like Mrs. Allardyce in the attic or whatever.

Todd [00:34:04]:
What a great movie.

Craig [00:34:05]:
Yeah. But again, not much happens. She does. At one point, she breaks a vase and she goes to clean it up. And in cleaning it up, she finds some photographs. And I didn’t understand what was happening here. I had to read about it to understand. I think.

Todd [00:34:27]:
I know. I don’t read about it, but I think she finds these photographs in the attic, and they’re of a family. It’s like two people and a kid, but they’re clearly not the couple that she met. Oh, I guess we forgot to say that. His wife comes in. Yeah, Vivian. Before he leaves, his wife comes in the back door. Well, like, I don’t know, through the kitchen or something.

Todd [00:34:49]:
And kind of surprises her while she’s waiting. And he’s upstairs talking to mother. This is Mary Warren off, who’s another great cameo. And she’s been in a lot of movies that we’ve reviewed.

Craig [00:35:01]:
Shopping mall, night of the comet.

Todd [00:35:04]:
I think she was the wife in. She just. She popped up in all of those, pretty much almost every other movie I would see on USA up all night, like, would have her in it. It seemed like whether it was a horror movie or a sex comedy, it was like she’d be in it. And.

Craig [00:35:21]:
Yeah.

Todd [00:35:21]:
So she has kind of this role where she sits down, she gets kind of cozy to her and is talking to her and is asking her all these personal questions about how old is she? And, oh, she likes school. And you look like you might be too young to be in college. And she’s kind of touching her hair and touching her shoulder. And all this is filmed, like much of this movie. And like many of the movies of these era, they would really get close on someone’s face. Lots of really close, tight shots to show you the expressions on people’s faces and their eyes and to kind of imply extra emotional significance. And so it is a bit of a creepy scene. She comes off as pretty creepy.

Craig [00:35:59]:
Yeah. One of the things that I wanted to ask you, because I don’t really know the difference, I read that another one of the old school techniques that west used was that he did a lot of zoom shots where it would zoom up in close on a character as opposed two today, it’s more common for those shots to be done using a dolly now.

Todd [00:36:25]:
Right.

Craig [00:36:27]:
I understand you push zoom or adjust the lens or whatever to zoom. And I understand that a dolly, you physically move the camera, but is there a significant difference in effect?

Todd [00:36:43]:
Yeah, I mean, if you saw it side by side, you’d immediately know it. A zoom essentially just blows up the picture so it looks like you’re getting closer, but it’s just really more or less blowing up the picture. And whereas a dolly, when you’re physically moving the camera through, you can to some extent see objects go past the camera.

Craig [00:37:00]:
Okay, that makes sense.

Todd [00:37:01]:
And so you’ll see a continual sort of change of perspective as though you’re moving through the room, whereas a zoom very much just looks like you’re blowing up the shot.

Craig [00:37:11]:
Got you.

Todd [00:37:12]:
And I think that’s why it’s not used so much anymore, is because it doesn’t have quite the emotional impact, although I would argue it has its place. But it’s mostly the effect nowadays tends to look a little more corny. But, yeah, you’re right, they do use a lot of zoom in this as well. He’s really judicious with it. And I thought, to good effect, getting.

Craig [00:37:32]:
Back to those photographs. Like you said, it’s a family. And at least one of the pictures, it’s a family standing in front of the car that they had seen when they pulled up and that the almonds or whatever their names had got into. Right.

Todd [00:37:52]:
So it seems to kind of show that this picture shows a family that’s no longer living in the house. Well, you would think, okay, well, the house has new owners, except the new owners also have this car. Why would that be?

Craig [00:38:05]:
Right. And she goes out and she looks and she sees that there’s a van out there. And we see that that guy who killed Megan is still lingering around.

Todd [00:38:15]:
He’s, like, lingering.

Craig [00:38:16]:
Yeah. She also, at some point, orders pizza because Mr. Almond had told her to, like, three or four times.

Todd [00:38:23]:
He mentions it several times, and it comes off as a guy who’s just a little absent minded.

Craig [00:38:28]:
Yeah. Or maybe even in the early stages.

Todd [00:38:31]:
Of dementia, which he might be, but possibly the fact that he is suggesting pizza. So many, including on his way out the door.

Craig [00:38:39]:
By the way, don’t forget the pizza slam. I think it’s very soon after this that she’s cleaning up the stuff and she’s still hearing noises. And she’s kind of looking around and she’s scared. I mean, I’ve done that. I’ve babysat, not since I was a teenager, but big old houses in the woods, and you do kind of freak yourself out when you hear all these noises and stuff. So she’s walking around with this knife. At one point, she stands outside a door on the second or third floor, and she knocks lightly on it and says, Mrs. Almond.

Craig [00:39:15]:
Which doesn’t make sense because he said it was his wife’s mom. So it shouldn’t be Mrs. Ullman. But whatever, it doesn’t matter. There’s no response. And she doesn’t go in the room, but the camera does. And we see, well, first of all, it’s very dark. I mean, you definitely get the impression for sure, without question, there are bodies in there.

Todd [00:39:37]:
It’s three bodies, and one of them has been cut open and is in the middle of a pentagram spread out as though it’s like a ritualistic killing. And then two other bodies next to it. And I got the impression that this was the family from that photograph.

Craig [00:39:50]:
I think so. I think that these people are not who they claim to be. Actually, I know that because I’ve seen the rest of the movie, but they’re not who they claim to be. And I don’t think this isn’t their house. They came here and killed the owners of the house and are now posing as the owners of the house.

Todd [00:40:07]:
Yeah.

Craig [00:40:08]:
Why is this a special location? Maybe this particular area is the best place to experience the eclipse? I have no idea.

Todd [00:40:19]:
Well, he more or less says that right directly to her. When the two girls are there and he’s sitting with them, one of the first things he mentions to them is, oh, he implies that they’re going to see the eclipse and that’s why they’re here. And he says, oh, you guys are so lucky. Like, this is the best place in the world to view the eclipse. It’s like an astronomer’s paradise.

Craig [00:40:37]:
That’s right.

Todd [00:40:39]:
Are you an astronomer? And he’s like, no, not exactly. Can you come into the kitchen, please? Yeah.

Craig [00:40:47]:
And she keeps getting spooked out by things. Like, I feel like at one point, she finds a bunch of hair in one of the bathtubs.

Todd [00:40:54]:
Yeah. It slips back into this.

Craig [00:40:56]:
Right.

Todd [00:40:57]:
It’s almost like the movie needed to provide the audience some jolts in order to keep us from falling asleep. Like, her friend gets shot. Okay. And then that sustains us through 20 more minutes of her just wandering around the house and mildly being spooked. And then, oh, we see that that family is slaughtered on the other side of the door. And that then is supposed to sustain us through another 20 minutes of her doing the same thing.

Craig [00:41:22]:
But eventually the pizza comes. We don’t see the pizza guy until after she’s already taken the pizza. But when she closes the door, we see that the pizza guy was the guy who killed Megan. So all of this seems. It’s becoming very obvious that this is all some sort of setup. I mean, not that it’s not really kind of suggested from the beginning. I mean, it is, but the pieces are starting to come together. And she takes, like, a bite of the pizza and sits downs to watch tv.

Craig [00:41:53]:
But then she makes, like, a sour puss face, like, the pizza doesn’t taste good. She takes it and she throws it away. And she drinks a bunch of water. Kind of rinses her mouth out again. Noises. She’s looking around, but I don’t remember if something particularly scary happens. Oh, yes. She goes up to the attic and she pulls the string for, like, the hanging light, and it blows a fuse.

Craig [00:42:18]:
But it takes out all the electricity in the whole house except for she’s standing near a door, and there’s still something illuminated. And she sees footsteps walking by.

Todd [00:42:29]:
Yeah.

Craig [00:42:29]:
So she’s very frightened. She runs out, but at the same time, she’s clearly getting dizzy. And it’s completely obvious that the pizza was drugged. And she is drugged now, and she eventually passes out on the floor.

Todd [00:42:44]:
I have to feel at this point, are we about and hour and 20 minutes into this 90 minutes movie?

Craig [00:42:49]:
Oh, it’s almost over.

Todd [00:42:51]:
Yeah, almost over right now. And then when she wakes up, actually, I liked, again, it was very stylish. And once again, movies from this era did these kind of cool stylistic things a lot of times because they didn’t have a lot of money to do other things. But the lights are flashing. Not literally, but there’s a flash of a red moon two or three times, and then a flash of a candlelight and then a flash of her. And she’s laying on the floor, gagged and bound across a pentagram. And it just goes on full on satanic cult at this point.

Craig [00:43:22]:
She’s surrounded by lit candles. She’s in a white dress. And it is. I mean, they don’t waste any time. She wakes up, she starts screaming. The almonds come in in dark, hooded robes. It’s the couple, the older couple, both of them, and the younger guy who killed Megan, who they never. I don’t think they ever say this, but it’s their son.

Craig [00:43:47]:
Must be their adult son. He’s billed as Victor, but I don’t even remember if they ever say his name. And then the old lady character is there too. And I don’t even know what. She doesn’t just look like an old lady. She looks like some sort of demony witch. Monstrous. She’s got this monstrous face that had to have been done with prosthetics.

Craig [00:44:16]:
And I don’t know if it was meant. If she was, like, some sort of demon or some sort of witch or if she’s just horribly disfigured for other reasons. I have no idea. But it’s this whole ritual where the witch lady pulls up her dress and draws a pentagram in blood on her abdomen, places a goat skull on her abdomen, cuts herself and bleeds into the goat skull and then forces Samantha to drink it. And all this, like, in a minute. And then Sam thrashes her arms and legs around, frees herself of the binds and grabs a knife and I’m pretty sure stabs the old lady and then runs out, stabs Mr. Ullman on her way out.

Todd [00:45:09]:
Yeah, she’s quite efficient at this. Loses the knife. Must have lost the knife in him, right? Because she runs up into the kitchen. She trips over for some odd reason. The son dragged her friend’s body, all blood filled and everything, into the kitchen at the top of the stairs. And she trips over her friend’s body. She’s like, oh, no. My God.

Todd [00:45:28]:
Megan grabs the knife where she had left it on the table starts to run upstairs, which I’m not quite sure why. And then as she kind of trips over the stairs and is up on the landing and on her back, the guy comes up who’s kind of San’s eye at this point with his gun and shoots her straight in the shoulder and she falls back. But then as he approaches her, she just slashes him in the jugular and takes him out.

Craig [00:45:56]:
Yeah, I forgot on her way out she had gouged his eye out with her thumb. But yeah, she’s quite effective. I was very surprised that he shot her, first of all, because you typically don’t see guns in these types of movies.

Todd [00:46:12]:
True.

Craig [00:46:12]:
It’s usually some other type of weapon. So when he just pulled out a gun and shot her, I was shocked. Of course, she gets shot in the shoulder. She like jerks back for a second and then she’s fine for the rest of the movie. But yeah, she picks up the knife off the floor and just swings her whole arm around. Just slices his throat wide open and he dies. She runs again upstairs, I think. Then the mom, they end up in a room together.

Craig [00:46:43]:
Does the mom kind of take her out momentarily?

Todd [00:46:46]:
Not really. She’s just kind of laying there and she just goes up to her and she’s just like, no matter what you do, it won’t stop. It can’t be stopped. It’s going to work in Spidey, you little bitch. And then mom just walks towards the window, takes her wig off and starts praying to the moon. Just totally leaving her back exposed for Samantha to just stand up and stab her in the back, which she does. And so she’s taken out. But then she runs downstairs and she’s chased by Mr.

Todd [00:47:13]:
Allman. And they go down to the graveyard and there’s kind of a little showdown in the graveyard. But by now she’s picked up the, you know, he’s, again, still very soft spoken. He seems very calm, more or less about the situation.

Craig [00:47:26]:
She’s having visions of the witch lady and it’s quick, like flashes of just that woman’s face and blood and weird stuff. It reminded me of the Exorcist. Just those really quick flashes of the demon’s face. These are maybe a lit second longer. In the exorcist they were almost subliminal. They’re not subliminal here. You certainly see it, but there’s clearly something happening. What have you done in there?

Todd [00:48:08]:
They’re calling to you. Just listen to them. You’ve given the sign he’s chosen you. It’s your destiny to accept him.

Craig [00:48:20]:
No.

Todd [00:48:22]:
Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. Kill me if you want. I’m just a messenger who carries out his words.

Craig [00:48:29]:
She’s also having stomach pains. It’s obvious that she is supposed to carry the devil’s child or something.

Todd [00:48:38]:
She’s like a five minute Rosemary’s baby, like minute rice.

Craig [00:48:47]:
And so she’s pointing the gun at him and he’s like, fine. If you need to kill me, that’s fine. He’s like, I’m just a messenger. It’s just my job to see that his will is done. And so instead, out of nowhere, I guess she just makes the decision that whatever is going to happen, she must put a stop to it. So she puts the gun to her head and I think that he says no or something, but she pulls the trigger. I mean, gun to the head pulls the trigger?

Todd [00:49:14]:
Yeah. Should be dead.

Craig [00:49:17]:
Cut to black, come back in bright. And we’re focused on a television that is reporting on last night’s eclipse. And scientists are stumped because the ending of the eclipse, like once the eclipse had hit full eclipse, then the moon moving out of the shadow of the.

Todd [00:49:38]:
Earth faster than ever thought possible, right?

Craig [00:49:40]:
Faster than predicted or ever thought possible. Okay? And we find that we’re in a hospital. And the camera walks down the hallway and into a room where we see Samantha laid out on a hospital bed, her head completely wrapped in bandages, her face entirely bruised. And a nurse walks in and gives her an injection and pats her on the head and says, don’t worry, honey, you’re going to be all right. And then she pats her on the abdomen and says, both of you. And then she walks away and the frame freezes on Samantha laying in the bed and the credits start popping. You know, I liked that you didn’t get a view of the nurse. You just saw her uniform.

Craig [00:50:29]:
You never saw her face. I thought that was kind of ominous. I thought that it was ominous that maybe the suggestion is these people, these Satan worshippers are a network. So she’s not out of danger. I mean, she’s surely brain dead. I don’t know.

Todd [00:50:47]:
Gun to your head and pull the trigger.

Craig [00:50:50]:
Yeah. I mean, I know that it’s possible. I know that people have survived such things, but seems pretty unlikely. But that’s it. And that’s the end. And it’s bleak, which I think it should know. I just recently watched Shudder has this series called cursed films and they have a second season out now and one of them is Rosemary’s. Baby.

Craig [00:51:13]:
And so I was watching that and some of the mysterious things that happened surrounding that production, and it inspired me to go back and listen to our episode on Rosemary’s baby, and they’re so much alike, and we just absolutely gushed about Rosemary’s baby as well. We should have. But in listening to that, after watching this and then listening to that, I thought, you know what? Ty west really made a good tribute to these types of movies. Is it going to go down as a classic like Rosemary’s baby or the omen? No, I don’t think so. But as an homage, I think it’s really skillful. I think that he accomplished what he.

Todd [00:52:00]:
Set out to accomplish undeniably, stylistically. The visuals, the music, kind of the pacing, in a certain way, I think definitely a clear homage. But number one, he didn’t do anything new with it, which is fine. Nobody requires that some people choose to do that with their homages and kind of take things, shake it up a little bit. He didn’t. But also, you know, the tension is just different. I feel like he’s. Again, I was in the right mood for this movie, so that’s why I enjoyed it the second time around.

Todd [00:52:33]:
But I’ve still got to say, overall, just objectively speaking, the tension from Rosemary’s baby comes from things happening. It’s a quiet movie. Yes. It is a slow burn. Yes. But that’s because mysterious things are happening all the time, and you’re constantly questioning what’s going on, and you’re questioning, is this real? Is this kind of, like, are we making a lot to do about nothing? Is she going crazy? There’s a lot going on in your head while you’re watching the movie. So there is a build up of mysterious stuff. This doesn’t do that at all, really.

Todd [00:53:06]:
It’s a lot of just her just being around in a quiet, supposed to be spooky place, occasionally investigating a noise. And the two things that happen are not just, like, mysterious. Ooh, it’s like, woman gets shot in the head. It’s pretty bold. And then, oh, there’s a slaughtered family that’s been ritualistically sacrificed in the bedroom that she never sees. And those are the only two significant things that happen for the majority of the movie until the very last 8 minutes, where suddenly she’s in this peril and she immediately gets out of the peril. She does a pretty good job of defending herself, and then the movie’s over. That’s my criticism of it.

Todd [00:53:53]:
It’s aspiring to duplicate those movies, and probably does. Some of them were probably equally as slow. It has the stylistic look of Rosemary’s baby, but none of the tension and atmosphere that Rosemary’s baby was able to achieve through its really skillful plotting. Right.

Craig [00:54:10]:
I mean, it’s not as compelling a story. It’s just not. But overall, I think it’s a good movie.

Todd [00:54:19]:
It’s worth watching.

Craig [00:54:21]:
It’s well made, it’s well acted, really fun, kind of retro throwback, especially if you’re fans of those movies, which we are. I mean, you’ve even made me a fan of some of those jallos. Like, I don’t remember what was the one that we just watched recently about. The kids were like, going to prostitutes.

Todd [00:54:42]:
Or something so the preacher don’t torture duckling.

Craig [00:54:45]:
Yeah, it kind of had similar vibes to that and other movies like that. If you like those things, which I do, and I know you do, I think that you will enjoy this movie. But it’s not really a sit around and goof on it kind of movie. It’s more serious. Yeah, I don’t know. I recommend it. If you haven’t seen it, I recommend it. I think it’s a good movie.

Craig [00:55:10]:
I don’t love it. I’m not going two people. What’s your favorite horror movie? Well, not this one, but I appreciate it for what it is.

Todd [00:55:19]:
Well, thank you again for listening to our episode. Thanks. Big thanks also to Freddie, Darren, Dave, and our patrons on Patreon for making this episode happen. If you would like to similarly influence the movies that we choose in the future, go over to patreon.com chainsawpodcast and consider being a patron of this podcast. That’s one of the benefits you have. Along with several others, we’ve just released a minisode. We’ve got another minisode coming up that’s another benefit for our patrons, as well as some other little goodies, like a discussion board that you can access just to talk amongst yourselves and with me and Craig. And also an exclusive 90 minutes interview going a little bit deeper into our personal lives and some of the background behind the podcast that is patreon.com chainsawpodcast.

Todd [00:56:02]:
You can also find us on our Facebook page and our website. Just Google two guys in a Chainsaw podcast or go two twoguys redfortinet.com. Leave us a comment in any one of those places. Let us know what movies you’d like to see coming up in the future and what you thought of this episode. So until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Mother’s Day! In honor of the day we honor mothers everywhere, today we take a look at a Guillermo Del Toro-produced film about two girls who are torn between two mothers – and one is not exactly human.

Mama (2013)

Episode 295, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we have a special episode for you on a special day. Once again, it is mother’s day. I would say happy mother’s day, Craig, but you’re not a mother.

Craig: I’m a bad mother…

Todd: Shut yo mouth! Well, we do want to say at least I want to say happy mother’s day to the important and wonderful mothers in my life, the mother of my son, uh, and, uh, my own mom, of course, who went through quite a bit to raise me. We just love spending this time today, paying tribute to our mothers by showing, um, motherly figures in horror films.

I think last year, was it last year, maybe two years ago, we actually did mother’s day, right? There was a notorious and cheap, uh, trauma produced film, but it didn’t turn out too bad. This is a modern film from 2013 and it is called Mama produced by Gail Guillermo Del Toro, um, and directed by a guy named Andy mushi Yeti from a three minute short.

Uh, that he did that got the attention of Guillermo Del Toro and said, Hey, why don’t, why don’t I help you expand this into a larger movie, which he did. And this is what we have mama. I, uh, suggested this PG 13 film today, simply because I was looking at lists of potential films for mother’s day and this one came up.

But otherwise I had never seen it before. And I actually hadn’t heard it before. How about you Craig? Oh, 

Craig: Yeah, I’ve seen it. In fact, I, when you recommended it, I told you that I had just rewatched it a couple of weeks ago randomly because I, again, as always, well, no, I was just, uh, going through streaming services, looking for something to watch.

And I was looking at HBO max and, uh, it was. Man 

Todd: you have all the streaming services. I do. I, 

Craig: I, I’m going to be in debtors prison and I’m sure 

Todd: time you to death. Right. It’s only five bucks here. Only six bucks. They spend a hundred bucks. Like why did I cut cable? 

Craig: Yeah, I know. Like I CA I can, I can afford $5 a month.

That’s less than one meal at McDonald’s, but then yeah, like now I’ve got like 15 streaming service anyway, whatever. So I had recently rewatched it, but, um, I was glad to watch it again. I’ve actually, uh, been familiar with this for a long time, because I was familiar with the original, short I I’ve told you before.

And, and our listeners before that, every October I do a horror unit with my, um, senior class. And, uh, I w you know, we read stuff obviously, cause it’s a literature class. The I take one day when I show them shorts online, and this is one of the ones that I show them. And it’s good. It’s, it’s creepy. It’s atmospheric.

It’s recreated almost exactly in this movie, but it is very, very brief. Um, and there’s no context. It’s just a creepy little, you know, minute and a half or three minute stand-alone thing. Um, but, but it’s atmospheric, it’s atmospheric and it’s, it’s, it’s creepy. And, and then they made a whole movie out of it.

And it’s this one and that’s what we’re solving.

Todd: I should’ve had you do the intro.

Craig: I’m very eloquent.

Todd: The movie kicks off pretty, pretty, simply enough. There is a actually I think the whole movie is very stylistic. It’s shot really well. It has very good color dynamics in it. Um, there’s a kind of a bleak scene where we just see a card with its door open. I’m sitting by the side of a house and, uh, we hear over the radio.

It sounds like there’s been a shooting and somebody has left the scene of the shooting and someone is missing. Um, and pretty soon we see two girls in a. Uh, one is Victoria and one is Lily and they are three and one year old respectively, uh, and horrible. 

Craig: Very adorable. Did you, this is the first time. So I listened, I watched this with headphones this time around.

Did you hear what was going on on the radio? Yeah, I did. 

Todd: I mean, most of it. Yeah. It was a, they were talking about the shooting, right? 

Craig: Yeah. I think this is the first time that I’d ever paid attention to that, but it’s important. 

Todd: It is. Yeah. Well, it’s definitely sets the context for the scene. The father of these two girls, uh, whose name is Jeff, I believe comes stumbling in and upstairs and says, girls, we gotta go.

We gotta go. And he just grabs them and leaves and they ask where’s mommy, where’s mommy. And they say, well, mommy’s not, not here. And we had 

Craig: already heard a gunshot yeah. W what, what we heard on the radio was that there had been some kind of market crash or something, and, uh, some stockbroker or partner in some from, or something.

Gone nuts and had killed a couple of people in his office. And then as all this progresses, as we’re watching it, the dad has the radio on and you, it it’s it’s him. And, and what’s happened is that he has apparently due to S yeah. Due to some failure with his business or whatever, he’s lost his mind. He’s killed his partners.

He, and, and apparently he’s killed his wife and now he’s driving his girls out. 

Todd: It’s weird. Right? It’s an odd choice. Like he doesn’t just come home and shoot the girls and go, he comes home, shoots his wife and then grabs the girls, puts them in a car and takes off down the road. 

Craig: Yeah. Down this snowy road.

And it’s really, you know, it’s treacherous and he’s driving too fast and the little girls are in the back and the old, the younger one is only one. She can’t even talk. The older one is three. And, uh, she’s, I just, this is the first time that I was watching this closely. Like, I’ve seen it more than once, but this was the first time I was watching it closely and just paying closer attention to it.

Made the tension. Much higher because these little girls are scared and, and, and the older one is like, daddy, you’re driving too fast. And she says it a couple of times. And at one point her dad turns around and yells at her shut in. Yeah. I mean, very, very angry. And, and then he loses control of the car and they crash and they’re walking through the woods and they ended up finding, you know, this abandoned cabin in the woods and what really struck me, like he’s clearly lost his mind.

And, uh, it seems like he’s kind of tortured about what his next step is going to be, but it becomes apparent that he’s planning. He’s going to kill these girls and I assume himself, but, but what really kind of broke my heart about it this time. What made it so sad? And ultimately like watching this movie this time, I looked at it kind of as more than just a horror movie.

It’s really, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s tragic. Like there there’s, there there’s so much tragic. And, and sadness in this movie that I really hadn’t paid attention to before. And what really kind of got to me this time, the tragedy in this moment is these little girls love their dad and trust their dad, the older one who can speak, keeps calling.

You know, every time she talks to him, it’s always something, something, daddy, daddy, daddy. Well, you know, like that that’s, that’s messed up. They, they, they love him. They trust him. They have absolutely no idea what’s going on. They’re terrified, but they trust 

Todd: their dad. Yeah. And you know, it’s, um, I’ve said it before, but I do tend to see movies so slightly differently.

Or at least they hit me emotionally a little differently since I have a five-year-old and I think it’s simply because I. Here questions, very innocent, but very important questions from him all the time. You know, he doesn’t understand life yet. He doesn’t understand relationships and things like that yet.

So, you know, for example, when we had the COVID situation going on and we were separated, you know, for nine months it was, um, he was asking a lot of questions. Oh, you know, why can’t daddy be here? Why can’t we just go to China? And, you know, he could accept the answers, but it, it’s interesting to hear how his mind is working and what answers he needs, you know, and what questions he has and how he perceives things.

And I mean, so I, I think in a situation like this, I, I was just really breaking for those kids, um, being whisked away by their dad, uh, in the car, really not knowing what’s going on. But, you know, they’re appropriately, like not freaking out, right. Older kids would freak out. Right? Younger kids are just confused, but they’re used to being confused.

Cause life is confusing for them. So they just kind of go along with it, which is also really sad. And I did not see. Coming that the fact that he was going to kill them. I, I mean, I thought the, the re the whole reason he didn’t shoot them right there in the house, like he did his wife is cause he had some plan with them.

And I think maybe he originally did, but maybe he was thinking twice about 

Craig: it. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t think he had a plan, but I don’t think that he, I think he was irrational, but I don’t think that he had planned to kill them. I think it was a dis an impetuous decision made in a desperate moment. I 

Todd: think you’re right.

And I mean, he certainly didn’t plan to go to the cabin. Well, you know, there, there crashed was an accident by the side of the road and stumbled into this place. And then it’s just a awful scene where he is. You see, what’s probably gonna happen. She’s he’s got the gun in his hand. She’s like, what is that daddy?

And he just puts his hand on her face and he’s kind of crying. And he turns her around and says, The girls have been saying, by the way that there’s a woman outside and we have seen like some movement, that’s a little spooky. And then she turns around and looks outside and he raises the gun. Like he’s going to shoot her.

And before he can, these supernatural arms come out of the sky, behind him, the ceiling, grab him and pull him away. And the girl turns around and sees this happen. 

Craig: But he had told her to take off her glasses. She wears glasses and he had told her to take them off because I don’t think that he wanted her to see anything after she took off her glasses.

That’s when he pulled out the gun and she said, daddy, what is that? And he said, don’t worry about it or something like that. I think that he didn’t want her to see, but I also, I also think that that this is important because when she turns around this ghostly. This movie doesn’t hide anything that it is it’s a ghost movie or, or some sort of supernatural entity.

I mean, we find out it’s a ghost, but some sort of supernatural entity and we see it, you know, right there in the very beginning. It it’s this woman, ghostly earth tones, CGI, the CGI is not bad. It’s fine. I mean, it’s obviously CGI, but it’s fine. Grabs him, lifts him up, breaks his neck. And she sees all of this, but she sees it out of focus and for the rest of the movie, which, you know, obviously time passes, we jumped to five years later and time passes, but we come back to these girls, anytime that mama, the ghost is around the girl takes off her glasses.

I don’t know if it’s because I don’t know if it’s because of. That’s how mama is familiar to her. Like she had only ever seen her in soft focus before, but at another point late in the movie, the, the girl is wearing her glasses and mama takes them off of her. It’s a 

Todd: moment. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, it’s almost like either mama doesn’t want her to see, I don’t know, but I just felt like that.

I think it’s important as the relationship between the two of them, the fact that she only ever sees her in blur in soft focus. I think that’s kind of important because it’s almost like a metaphor, like when, when she comes back to civilization and she gets glasses again and she can physically see clearly, then she can kind of see things more clearly.

Um, That’s important as far as their relationship is concerned. 

Todd: And it sets up a contrast between her and her younger sister, um, which is also important to the movie and also a really poignant, a nice touch. You know, these could have been twins, they could have been about the same age, but because this girl was so young, um, they basically ended up staying in this cabin for like five, five years.

And, and there’s a little scene where they’re sitting by the fire and a little cherry rolls towards them that they pick up an eat that you know, is obviously been delivered by the supernatural entity. And then five years later, uh, after a credit sequence of kids’ drawings, we are, which, which 

Craig: I thought was just fantastic because it tells their story.

Then the children’s drawings fill in the gap of what’s happened in these five years in the stick figure, basically drawings. You can see that sometimes. The girls were scared, but sometimes they were happy, um, and, and playing and doing things. And, you know, there’s this mama figure in, in some of the illustrations.

Um, and there are, you know, there’s, there’s one illustration where the girls are scared and they’re being like menaced by wild dogs or something. But then the next picture shows the dogs all bloody and dead and they’re happy, you know? So this, this spirit or whatever it is, has been protecting them, caring for them at least enough to keep a three-year-old and a one-year-old a lie.

For five years. I mean, 

Todd: that’s, that’s, 

Craig: that’s a big deal 

Todd: and abandoned cabin out in the middle of the woods, which to be fair, uh, seems to be so easy to find. I can’t believe nobody’s found this book. 

Craig: I know, I know. 

Todd: Anyway, that’s one of the, one of the, one of the groaners I think, I mean, I, I really had to suspend my disbelief for a few things.

There’s a few pothole plot plot holes 

Craig: in it, but I guess, you know, in theory they had no idea where the dead took them in, in 

theory. 

Todd: Yeah. Like nobody tracked the car or anything like that. Right. 

Craig: But then it does, it cuts to five years later and we find out that, uh, the dad’s twin brother Lucas has been continuing to fund a search for.

Girls and his brother, I guess, you know, cause they just disappeared. Nobody knows what happened to them. Five years later, he’s still paying people to look around. Um, and we just happened to come back to them when these guys that he’s paying, you know, these, I don’t know, woodsy guys, 

Todd: Bursey 

Craig: they first find the car, which again, right.

Like you have to suspend your disbelief, like wherever this is it, how far could it have gone off the road that somebody wouldn’t have found it in five years, but it’s whatever they first find the car. Um, and then they find the cabin. And I really like this scene because they go in there. Of course it’s all dark and they’re looking around, but you see the girls moving around in the shadows before, you know, the characters see them and they’re feral.

And I thought that this. Played really well. And I don’t know how much of it was done with CGI or how much of it was done with the, the child actors, but they, they move around like animals and on all fours, it is 

Todd: very spooky. They’re super skinny, 

Craig: super skinny, and very fast and agile and dirty Harry hissing and, and Groundling, and, you know, I don’t know how realistic it is, but it looked, you know, like it’s, it’s spooky.

And, and just that idea of feral children is kind of a. A spooky thing, but of course they get them and they bring them back and they notify the uncle Lucas, who has a girlfriend named Anabel. Yeah. Yeah. And 

Todd: Annabel were introduced to her, sitting on the toilet, checking out her pregnancy test and really very happy that she’s not pregnant.

And I thought, okay. Oh absolutely. 

Craig: A hundred percent. You seem 

Todd: really setting this up, right? It’s a bit on the nose. Thank you God.

Craig: Hey, gosh. I’m not pregnant. What is wrong with you

had a problem with the bank or the money’s gone. I picked B is the correct answer.

It’s your brother. You want to spend all your money? Kind of find them. It’s okay with me. It’s cheaper than therapy. And I saw my and Annabel is kind of, you know, like a rocker girl, like she’s in a band, she’s in a rock band. She’s got tattoos up and down her arms and jet black hair. And she’s played by Jessica Chasteen.

Is one of the only actors that I recognize. So I apologize if there are other famous actors in this movie that you like that I don’t talk about. Cause she’s, she’s one of the only ones that I recognize, and she was the first and only choice for this role. She’s good. Jessica Chasteen is a good actress and this is, you know, it’s just a different role than I’ve ever seen her in, but every role I’ve seen her in she’s been different.

She’s versatile. Um, she ended up working with Andrew machete again, um, on the it remake. Um, she was in it chapter one in chapter two, as the older Beverly Marsh, she got a lot of acclaim for playing Tammy Faye Bakker in the eyes of Tammy Faye, which I’ve started watching. Uh, and, and she is. Good. And that, I, I just think that zero 

Todd: dark 30 came out though the year behind this, she was an interstellar the, the next year, uh, yeah, Crimson peak.

Oh, 

Craig: remember? Yes. Uh huh. Oh yeah. And she was good in that. She’s, she’s a very talented actress and she’s good in this movie and she plays, I like it when actors can play a character who. On paper is unlikable, but you like them anyway, you know, like on, at least in the beginning. And I would say that she has character, she certainly has an arc.

She has character development, but on paper, you know, in the beginning, she is thrilled to find out she is not pregnant. And she is not really interested in being a mother or having a family at all. And this is thrust upon her. And she even, she even has a conversation with the female lead singer of her band saying, you know, I didn’t even want a family.

I certainly didn’t want to set up family. And she’s like, and I didn’t even get to come up. Like they came to me that way.

Todd: It’s pretty hilarious. 

Craig: And her and her friend is like, well, leave him. And she’s like, I can’t do that. Right. I can’t do that to him. Like, apparently she loves him so much and knows how important this is to him that like it or not, she’s in it. And she’s going to do it. 

Todd: It’s important. Right? I mean, it shows that she’s not just kind of.

Self-centered asshole only out for herself. That’s why she doesn’t want to be a mom. Cause she doesn’t want to have to have any responsibility or, you know, whatever. Like I’m not saying that’s the reason you don’t become a mom. You know what I mean? But I’m just saying sure. It provides the balance right where, oh, okay.

Yeah. She’s super happy. She doesn’t have, she doesn’t, she doesn’t have kids. She doesn’t want these kids. She has the opportunity to go, but she’s a nice gal. Uh, and so obviously they’re setting this up to put her in the mother role, which she ends up doing. I was just gonna mention by the way, because it means nothing to me, but uh, the Nicole lodge cost or Waldo who played Lucas in this, I’ve never watched game of Thrones, but he used Jamie Lannister in game of Thrones.

So that probably means something to the rest of the percent of the rest of the universe. That’s seen game of Thrones and not me 

Craig: and, and, and he’s handsome and charming. And uh, you know, I. There was nobody in this movie who I thought was subpar in terms of acting. I thought that the acting was the acting was great.

Yeah, it was great. And even these little girls now who have grown up, they end up in the hands of this psychologist, I guess, um, named Dreyfus, I guess he’s in charge of their case or whatever tells Lucas and Annabel that the older girl, Victoria has managed to retain some language. And, and they really think that G with just a little bit of help, she’ll be able to get everything back.

The other little girl, Lily was only one year old when she went out there. So she has very little language or social skills. I mean, I mean, she is quite literally Pharell and throughout really the most of the movie, like she’s capable of. Walking on two feet, but she seems to prefer when she’s comfortable, she walks on all fours and.

Capable of language, but she doesn’t say very much. And I, I just read this morning that this young actress didn’t speak English, 

Todd: it worked out with it, 

Craig: did it, does it works out perfectly for the role, but it’s, it’s good. It’s effective. I actually think that works really well because as it turns out, we already know this, but the characters come to find out very slowly over the course of the film that they were raised by this ghost lady and the one-year-old, that’s all she’s ever known ever.

And so she clings to it far more fiercely than her sister does. And that that’s ultimately important to. 

Todd: Yeah. And that’s the contrast, you know, I was talking about that, like you said, is very important. And I also think it’s a very poignant moment in there where Lucas is approaching her inside this.

Facility now also, I guess this is just a movie thing, right. But my mom used to work at a psychiatric facility. I don’t remember them having a room that was dressed up like a bedroom with a two way mirror, so they could just throw kids in there and see how they’re going to act. But anyway, they’re in there.

Right. And they’re T he’s talking to the doctor is talking about the differences between the two girls and Lucas comes in. And of course, Lily is running away from him. And also, uh, Victoria is, seems hesitant, but he gives her, her glasses. He’s got like another pair of her glasses and he puts them on her and she sees him for the first time and she goes, daddy, and I just wanted to cry.

She broke my heart, my heart. And he’s like, I’m sorry, I’m not your dad. I’m your, I’m your uncle Lucas. Remember? And she just hugs him. Um, 

Craig: and keep it keeps saying daddy, like, 

Todd: and she’s old enough, right. To have the memory of her actual mother to have the memory of her real dad. And this guy says, twin, you know, he looks just like him and she’s 

Craig: touching his face.

Like, Ugh. You know, and these, these girls have not had any human contact through all of their formative years up to this point. And I just, it just felt so. Natural. Like, I just believed that, you know, when this girl walks up to this man and, and recognizes him as, as she probably would, you know, uh, it’s her dad’s twin brother.

They’re not played by the same actor. They’re not identical twins, but brothers nonetheless, and she just reaches out and strokes his face and it’s almost like sense memory and. And it comforts her and she embraces them. Oh, oh man. Well 

Todd: the doctor Gerald, when the, I don’t know, we see a court scene. I think it’s like 90 days later, your honor, 

Craig: Victoria and Lily dishonors were found in deplorable conditions, isolated, starved, they feared and distrusted all physical contact.

Their emotional growth was clearly compromised by their abandonment in order to survive such extreme isolation. The girls created an imaginary guardian, a parent figure to feed them, sing to them, protect them. They called 

Todd: her mama at the same time. And they’re talking about custody of the girls in front of the judge.

And there’s this woman, uh, who just kind of comes out of nowhere and. I think this character was at all important to the story. And then she could have been completely cut out. She comes from nowhere. You barely see her. And then she does nothing really important in the whole movie, but create this for a moment.

This bit of drama, where it’s the aunt, it’s the moms, the dead mom’s sister who wants, 

Craig: I think actually it’s the dead mothers aunt. It would be the girls. Yeah, I think so. She wants the girls and maybe she is the mom’s sister. I don’t know. I thought it was the mom’s aunt, but whatever, it doesn’t matter. I understand why she would want them.

And she argues in court that she would be more fit to keep them because Lucas just lives in a small apartment and 

Todd: he’s an artist, you know, he’s poor 

Craig: and his, and his girlfriend’s just in a band and blah, you know, whatever. And the, the psychologist Dreyfus. Is frankly corrupt. Like they don’t really treat him as a villain, but they could have, because he’s, he’s corrupt.

He tells. Lucas and Anabel the truth of the matter is she probably would be better off with Jean, but I want to study them. I want to study them. It’s 

Todd: like alien. He was in aliens, by the way. 

Craig: I didn’t know that, but he basically, what he says is it’s, it’s really up to me. Like whatever recommendation I make, the judge is going to go with.

And he’s like, I would lean towards her. However, I don’t want them going across the country either. So if you will agree to live in this nice suburban home owned by the university for the purpose of case studies, 

Todd: that’s about as realistic as this, this university must have a hell of a lot of, 

Craig: if you’ll agree to live that live.

And give me access to the girls. Then I will recommend you for custody and, and Anabel is, is torn. She doesn’t want to go live in suburbia and be a soccer mom, but she knows it’s important to Lucas. And so they agree to do it. 

Todd: Yeah. You know, at this point I have to say, um, the movie is very stylized in the way it does color.

Whenever Lucas is around the girls and just around period, you get this very warm yellows, CEPI atoned, uh, image, image of the. Whenever Annabel is around, starting from when we see her rehearsing in this little, you know, rehearsal room or whatever, with a fluorescent light or whatever. Th no matter where she is, whether she’s in the house, whether she’s outside, it’s green, it’s like puke green, like ugly, fluorescent lighting type thing.

It’s sort of like the teal and orange, except it’s, it’s like. Gross green and orange. And I thought that was a really interesting, um, motif that they had going through the movie. So even when they get to the house and Annabel has her moments where she’s alone with the girls, but she’s not comfortable with them, you know, she’s not sure what to do with them.

She does what she can, but she’s just kind of like, whatever, you know, she’s got to go through the motions. It’s like washing the dishes or doing the laundry. 

Craig: And I give, I give the character. I mean, Said Jessica testing, great actress. I give the character props because she really tried and like, and they, they really make a point of pretty much every time you see her in the house, she’s doing something incredibly domestic.

Like she’s always doing laundry or doing the dishes or cleaning. Always, and it’s always that 

Todd: green wash over 

Craig: it, by the way. And it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel heavy handed it, it kind of feels realistic. I mean, that’s what, especially since, you know, there there’s a scene where Dreyfus hypnotizes, Victoria, which is, you know, it’s just kind of stuck in, but it is important.

She gives the exposition, she tells mama’s story. That’s a long time ago, a lady ran away from a hospital or savvy. She stuck a baby.

How could you know that story? Victoria took 

mama 

Todd: tell you that story.

Craig: They all move in together in the house. I mean, it’s, it’s a beautiful house. If you want to, you know, live in suburbia and there’s a lot that goes on and we can come back to it. I was, I was trying to get caught up, but, but the, the point is eventually Lucas has taken out of the picture. Um, the, the girls get the girls, you know, get back to the house then, you know, we see strange things start going on.

Like the electricity is flickering. Lily is creeping around the house weirdly on all fours. Um, there are weird like mold or mildew spots on the walls that like these mods are coming out of and stuff. Um, and uh, at one point, uh, Annabel hears something in the night and she sends Lucas out to investigate it.

And he sees one of the. Spots on the wall and he sees a moth come out of it, but then mama busts out of it and pushes him over. Yeah. And pushes them over the banister on the second level. And so he falls down the stairs and his unconscious, I kind of thought so too. I almost feel like that would have been to mean it would have been a shocker.

Well, and I think that logistically it wouldn’t have made sense because if he had died, they would have taken the girls from her. The girls would have gone to a relative, but he’s not doing. Um, but he is in a coma and I just, I appreciate the reality of the character because Annabel is like, well, she talks to the psychologist and she’s like, well, what do we do now?

And he’s like, what do you mean? She’s like about the girls? And he’s like, well, you have to keep them. If you don’t keep them, then Jean will get them. And even when Lucas comes out of the coma, he’ll never get them back. And she says, that’s not fair. This isn’t my job. And she’s right. It’s not, it’s not her job.

It’s not her responsibility, but apparently. She loves Lucas enough that she is willing to make that sacrifice. And it certainly is a sacrifice. I mean, it would be a sacrifice to care for anybody else’s children. 

Todd: It’s a sacrifice, caring for your own children. Right. 

Craig: But these kids have issues. Um, but she has to take it on and she does.

And. She tries. It is hard and you can see the frustration in her. It is it’s terribly frustrating, but she does 

Todd: it. I think it’s important to point out and this, you know, the movie could have gone this way and I’m really glad that it didn’t, it really stayed true to her character and her motivations.

She’s not trying to like bond with the girls, you know, not really not trying to have these moments where she’s trying to get closer with them to make her life easier. She’s really just trying to get things done and trying to keep, to keep them alive from one day to the next, uh, I appreciated that the movie didn’t get sappy and weird like that because you know, of course her character arc, it was set up from the beginning.

She doesn’t want to be a mom. She doesn’t, you know, all this. And of course, by the end of it, boiler alert, you know, she suddenly has these motherly instincts that awakened in her or whatever, at least towards these girls, she feels a bond with them now. And it’s a natural evolution, but it could have been so much savvier and it absolutely was not.

And so I really appreciated that about the movie. The characters seemed, they felt very real. Their motivations felt pretty real except for the one note and, you know, pops in and out and just induced the whole time and the kind of evil doctor. It wasn’t that evil. He just 

Craig: he’s ambitious he’s device. 

Todd: He’s applied device to advance our understanding of what’s going on.

He hires this woman or it’s, I don’t know, it gets this woman who either works at the university or something like that, uh, to investigate the story that the girls tell about the woman who jumped this woman comes in and basically says, well, you know, investigate all the asylums and things like that. And I haven’t found anything, but there’s this one that closed in like 1868 that, uh, there was this patient named Edith Brennan, and you should look at her story in her files.

And so that’s where we see. And you know, this happens pretty early in the movie. Like you said just the way that we there’s no question at the beginning that this is supernatural and that there’s a ghost. We see the ghost full on pretty early, pretty, I mean, we’re not even a third of the way through the movie and this whole investigation bit is pretty much done for us.

Like there are just some very minor details that we don’t know, but, uh, if you’ve ever seen a ghost story, you know, you know what this is all about, right? It’s this ghost who was taking care of the girls, but she’s restless spirit for some reason. And there’s something that has to be done in order to set her soul at ease.

And she’s got her own motive. And, and to be honest with you, like, just to jump the gun a little bit on why I thought this movie was just kind of as is, it was just so formulaic like that. 

Craig: Yeah, 

Todd: that’s true. And not only was it formulaic, but it showed its card so early. So by this point, a third of the way through the movie, everything had kind of been laid out.

So I was just waiting for all the proper characters, realize what needs to be done. And then they discover what that is and do it. And then that even happens kind of early to the doctor’s on his own little path here. He’s investigating this, he’s talking to the girls, he’s got the hypnosis thing, which I thought was a little contrived, but okay.

Whatever to pull information out of the girls and then this woman. It comes back to him at some point later and says, uh, you know, I’ve got something, I’ve got more information, something you need to see. And she brings him into this sort of Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the lost dark style, like, like government facility, where I was expecting her to like pop passive right by the do not open arc.

Great. You’re right, right, Florida. See lake just, 

Craig: just rows upon rows of like. Feet high shells, right. And she pulls off 

Todd: and she says, 

Craig: you believe in ghosts. I can’t say that I do. When a corpse has left out the elements, whether it desiccated, twisting it into a distorted figure, that’s barely recognizable as a human being a ghost as an emotion bent out of shape, condemned to repeat itself, time and time again, until it writes the wrong that was done.

What’s this,

Todd: which is a summary of basically every ghost story we’ve ever seen. Apparently a direct quote from two of Guillermo Del Toro’s, previous movies, um, or no one of his previous movies and then Crimson peak, which comes later. So she pulls off the shelf. She says, these are small remains. This 

Craig: is the wrong, like the wrong, that needs to be correct.

And I was a little, I was a little confused at what was going on at this point. 

Todd: At this point, I was like, oh, the mother, she jumped off with her baby and now her baby was lost. These are the remains. You got to get the remains back to the ghost. I mean, isn’t that like 80% of the stories like they’re looking for somebody else’s remains.

Craig: Yes. But, well, see, but I thought, and I don’t know if I just missed something or if I misheard something or what I thought it was mama’s ashes. Like I thought that she needed to be laid to rest and that that’s not what it is at all. Um, so, and, and, and again, maybe I just missed something. I don’t know. But things move.

I was going to say they move pretty quickly. They, they actually don’t. They move a little bit slowly, but we can talk about it quickly because not a whole lot happened. Like obviously Annabel is concerned and weird things are going on. Like we see again, no, nothing secret. We see mama playing with Lily a 

Todd: great scene 

Craig: too.

I did really like that scene. It shot like down a hallway so that you can see into on the right side of the screen, you can see into the girl’s bedroom, but the left side of the screen is the hallway that Annabel is in. But so we can see both clearly, but Annabel does has no idea what’s going on. In the room.

Um, and it’s kind of like a, will she won’t she see it kind of, but the course she doesn’t the cool 

Todd: thing about it is that Lily is playing with a blanket. Let’s like somebody else who you can’t see, because they’re further into the room is pulling on the blanket, she’s yanking it around and you would just assume that it’s Victoria, right?

Except at some point as like you say, uh, Annabel’s walking down the hall and you think she’s going to turn the corner, Victoria shows up. So you’re like, holy shit. And then when you look over in the room, suddenly can we see more of a shadow on the wall of the mother figure and you realize what’s going on.

And, but they pull this trick too many times. Honestly, they pull this trick so many times that you can see it coming. Like at least three times in this movie is a situation where you think it’s the two girls, but then you see Victoria. And it turns out that it’s Lily and mama who you thought was Lily and 

Craig: Victoria.

It happens a lot. And there are a lot, you know, a lot of times when like, um, Annabel hears weird things through the vents and like goes and surprises the girls playing. And like, they’re obviously surprised and like they’ve been caught doing something, but for whatever reason, mama isn’t visible. Like I was paying closer attention this time.

Um, that time when she thinks that she hears. Well, they sing, the girls sing this, or they don’t really sing. They kind of hum um, this melody and at one point Annabel hears them through the vents, but she hears a voice singing with them. That is not a child’s voice. It’s a woman’s voice. And she walks to their room and she hears them playing and she opens the door and they look like they’ve been caught, but mom was not there, which I thought was really convenient.

But if you pay attention, Lily is holding one end of that blanket. And the other end of the blanket is trailing into the closet, like pointing like, right. Like she had like mama had just disappeared into the closet, but you’re right. Those types of things happen a lot until eventually. Mamma just makes herself known all the time.

Todd: Everybody she came. And this is the thing that with these ghost movies always kind of troubles me a little bit, especially with an aggressive ghost, as this goes, turns out to be who’s protected these girls, why not from the very get go. Did she just sweep them back away? Why is she dicking around in this house with them and appearing and playing and all this stuff?

I mean, I’m trying to think, oh, well, was she holding back thinking that, you know, all she really cares about is that these girls are, are taken care of. And so as she sort of testing the caretakers and once one sort of Annabel proves herself that she can be a, a worthy mother to these kids, then she’s going to retreat.

You know, that doesn’t turn out to be the case. No. So I I’m just really kind of left wondering why mom was just fussing around so much. Um, and why she, you know, what we get at the end of the movie didn’t happen. 

Craig: Right, right. Well, you know, I don’t know. I can’t explain it. Other than that, this goes to his, apparently been living in this cabin by herself since the late 18 hundreds.

And now the only two Frank, when it comes down to basically is that this ghost has adopted them, you know, like, uh, she, she fi they call her mama. She is, she cared for them. And that’s part of what makes the movie kind of tragic. Like obviously the mama spirit is dangerous. And the villain of the story, but her story is tragic too.

And she got, you know, she, she lost her own child, as it turns out, you know, the psychologist at first tells Anabel that he thinks that, um, Victoria has associated personality disorder and that she is mama. I don’t know if he really believes that or not, but that’s what he tells her. He does more research and ends up.

And we actually ended up seeing this, uh, I guess mama reveals it to Annabel the same way that she had revealed it to Victoria through a dream. She had been in an institution mama had, and she, I guess, had a baby and she stole her baby killed a nurse or something and ran and then was, yeah. And then was pursued by men, um, and chased to the edge of this cliff.

And I guess that what she decided was that she would have. Die with her baby, then go back and have to give her baby every whatever. So she jumped off this cliff with what we see is from her perspective. She jumps and she has her baby, but right before she crashes into the water, she looks at her arms and her baby is gone.

And, and, and that seems like that is why she is a wandering spirit. Like she doesn’t know what happened to her baby. And Victoria tells Annabel at some point, you know, she, she wandered all around the woods looking for a baby, but she never found it. And I guess, you know, just being this lost wandering spirit, then these two girls showed up and they kind of took the place of her baby.

Um, we find out that as she had been falling from this cliff, there had been a branch like protruding out of it. And the swaddling, the baby swaddling had got caught in it. And, uh, Had had been suspended there and that’s why, um, she lost her. 

Todd: Yeah, I have to say another thing that kind of bothered me about the movie from a logical perspective was that too much of the information is revealed to the characters through these visions.

You know, they have a dream, they have a vision and now they know what they have to do. It’s, it’s just, it’s a convenient plot device and it’s very typical of these kinds of stories. But in this case, there wasn’t really a motivation for it because normally the ghost is revealing things to the characters and visions so that they can get the characters to fulfill their, their need.

You know, in this case, the ghost is just completely antagonistic towards these people and she’s, she’s gonna. To kill them both later. Yeah. 

Craig: It’s a little muddled, right? Like why is she revealing this stuff to Annabel? Because Victoria is scared. She is afraid that mama’s going to get jealous and hurt Annabel.

And she even, she rejects affection from Annabel because she’s like, no, you can’t do that. It’s going to make her jealous and I’m and she’s going to hurt you. Um, and at this point, I, I did like, at this point that Lily continues to embrace. Mamma. Yes. But that Annabel is clearly trying to pull away. And at one point, um, Lily wakes up in the night, I think mom was like beckoning her or something.

And all she ever says really in the whole movie is, uh, Victoria come mama. Yeah. Um, and at one point she goes to go out the window to follow mama. And she says that, and Victoria says, Victoria, stay and she’s crying. And I do think it’s hard for her. And I really actually like that element of the story. It is hard for her.

You know, she, I think that she wants to embrace this more normal life because she kind of remembers a normal life. And, and I think that she really recognizes that Annabel cares for them and is taking care of them. And she wants to embrace that relationship. But it’s hard for her. To let the other one go, especially since her little sister is still embracing that.

And that’s really basically what it comes down to. At some point, Lucas has a vision of his brother who says, save my girls, go to the cat. Whatever. And then he wakes up from his coma, the stupid aunt Jean visits, and like threatens to challenge them for custody because Lily has bruises on her face or something and it like, yeah.

They get bruises, which is totally true. And eventually mama completely reveals herself to Annabel. And there’s a little bit of a confrontation. Meanwhile, aunt Jean has come over. I’m not really sure why. I’m not sure if she’s like slew thing. 

Todd: Sure. Breaking into the house somehow. Like what the hell? It’s the middle of the night yet?

It’s I didn’t, I have no idea what she’s doing because the plot required it, the 

Craig: plot required it. And that’s you said that she’s pointless is she is pointless except for the girls needed a ride

to the cabin. So Mo so Jean showed up so that, so that mama could possess her for long enough to drive them apparently out to the cabin and the, uh, possessed Jean. Was very frightening. I feel like this is a good a time as any to say that, um, mama is played by a man, Javier Botet and apparently this guy has some sort of disorder that makes him very, very thin.

And, uh, he has really long limbs and really long fingers. So he has, I mean, if you look at his IMDV picture, he looks like a handsome guy, but, um, apparently he has, you know, kind of curious physique. Yeah. And he’s able to do this and, and he’s played these types of roles before he was in the it remake too.

He was the leper. Um, and, and he’s also played a, a ghostly woman in some other movie. So this is kind of his thing and he does it well. Uh, he’s really good. He’s very creepy. He can move and really unnatural ways. Again, I don’t know how much of that is CGI, but anyway, they all end up at the cat. I mean, it’s, it’s really kind of silly that they all end up there at the exact same time.

And, and mama has the girls out on the cliff and Lucas and Annabel runs to the cliff and mama is able to somehow subdue them. Like, I feel like she reaches into Lucas’s chest since almost like she’s squeezing his heart or something. He falls to the ground. And I didn’t know if he was supposed to be dying or what was going on.

Um, But, uh, she also touches Annabel and Annabel falls to the ground. And the girls start walking hand in hand with mama to the cliff. And Victoria keeps turning back to Annabel and saying Annabel sleep because mama keeps trying to put her to sleep, but Annabel won’t like she won’t give up and she keeps waking up and she keeps crawling towards them until eventually they’re near the edge of the cliff.

But Victoria stops because Annabel is clinging to her RO. And I think that what was going on here was that Victoria was going to go with mama because that would be what was best for everybody. She didn’t want to see Lucas and animals. Get hurt. So she was just going to go, but Annabel’s persistence. I think convinced her, this woman loves me and I want to stay with her.

And so she stayed. So she does, she lets go. Again, the ghost is the villain, but I feel bad for her. Like it’s sad. 

Todd: That’s kind of an interesting twist that happens there, where they are on the peak of the mountain and the, she is leading the girls away and they present her with the remains of her child and she turns around and it seems like everything’s going to wrap up.

But because Lily calls out to her mama, she turns around and kind of realizes, look, I can have this, this bag of bones or I can have this other girl, 

Craig: you know? Right. And she tosses the bones away. Like she just full hurdles, you know, it’s very. 

Todd: Complex. I think I really like the, the human, emotional aspect of this story.

Just everything you described, everything we’ve talked about, about the relationship between children and their mothers and the mother, you know, the sort of motherly instinct or whatever, or how you can bond with people over time. Like all of that was really, um, convincing and nice. I felt like the ghost story aspect of it was pretty pedestrian.

You know, it wasn’t stupid. It was just very paint by numbers and predictable. And quite frankly, there were a lot of things I didn’t understand a lot of plot holes and I just, I was just kinda waiting for that to wrap up. I think the movie could have been shorter because of it, what she ends up doing, I think, right.

Is she, she ends up taking Lily and now I was, I was a little surprised I was, 

Craig: and it’s sad, but it almost like make 

Todd: it seem like. Perfect, right? 

Craig: Yeah. The way, well, God, I mean, you’re just torn because you know, uh, Victoria has to say goodbye to her sister and Annabel and Lucas, you know, they don’t have as close a bond with Lily, but there was actually a really, really powerful scene.

Lily never bonded with anybody and she never lost her, um, kind of feral nature. She wouldn’t sleep in a bed, you know, she, she wouldn’t sit in chairs. She only ate with her hands like that never went away, but there was. There was a moment when, um, she had snuck outside to try to be with mama, but she hadn’t found mama.

And she had slept outside in the cold and Annabel had gone out and picked her up and brought her in. And this poor little girl is freezing and she screams no and tries like an animal to scamper away. That Annabel just holds her. And, and I mean, it, gosh, this scene had to have been hard to direct and hard to act because this little girl was fighting to get away.

And Jessica Chasteen just had to hold her and wrap her arms and legs around her and restrain her, which is. I I’ve had to do that. You know, I I’ve, I’ve worked in special education with young kids and I’ve had to restrain kids and it’s, it’s not easy and it’s, it’s emotional because you’re scared to death.

You don’t want to hurt them, but you know that you’re, you’re doing it for their safety. That’s what Annabel does with this girl. And when she, when she finally holds her there forcibly and, and is trying to comfort her from it’s, it’s like Lily, finally, for a moment, realizes this woman doesn’t want to hurt me.

This woman cares about me and you see it in her eyes, this little girl. Oh man. I was so impressed at that performance. You see that moment where she realizes. This woman’s trying to help me, you know, 

Todd: I thought that would be a turning point, but it turned out. It just wasn’t enough. Right? But that just wasn’t in that scene.

Completely foreshadows. What we see later on the cliff, right? It took, it took what proves it to the kids is the determination and the care that the adult has showing them. But the reality is for this one-year-old for this kid who was one year old, when she was taken away, this is the only mother she’s ever known is this ghost.

That’s the difference between these two kids. So it’s very fitting really. When you think about it, that this girl is going to be happiest with her ghost mother, wherever ghost mother is going to take her and where ghost mother takes her is right off the edge of the cliff. And that surprised me a bit, but they have this super stylized rather touching scene where the mom sort of supernaturally wraps her up.

This cloak, as she dies off the cliff and time just sort of slows down and we get a look inside of this little wrapping that they’re in as they’re slowly descending and Lily couldn’t be happier. She just know she’s, she’s got her hands. She’s at peace all over mom’s face she’s at peace. And the ghost mom is happy.

Everything is fine. And they hit that branch on their way down and they burst out into a bunch of mods. And, and then of course, you know, as the other three are embracing on the ledge, the one of the Moss flutters over and lands on Victoria’s arm. And, uh, Vic, Victoria just says Lily, and that moth sort of flits away.

So, 

Craig: and that’s the end. And I thought that it was like, I thought it was a sad ending. Like I said, the whole movie is tragic and a lot of ways. And the ending is, is sad. I it’s, I think it’s satisfying, but it’s sad. I was also left wondering what happens in that, right? Like, like how did they explain that?

Where, where did, uh, Lily go? You know, why is he at Jean dead? You know, like I, uh, I just saw this morning that, um, mama too is slated. It was supposed to film, I think in 2020, but of course, then the world went to hell. And 

Todd: what happened in 2020 Craig?

Craig: So I it’s postponed apparently indefinitely. Um, but Jessica Chasteen was set to reprise her role, but like. Y 

Todd: prison what’s gonna happen. I start at in prison because this girl’s disappeared 

Craig: and his mom is going to come back. Like, I don’t, that that’s stupid. Like, eh, that’s actually, one of the things that I liked about this movie was that it didn’t just tie everything up with a nice, pretty bow, like things, things weren’t perfect that the sisters were separated, the foster parents or whatever, lost the girl, they didn’t win.

And nobody really won, but I, I almost feel like that’s fitting it’s maybe in a ghost story, you know, more realistic, whatever, but, uh, there’s something satisfying about things not turning out perfectly. That’s true. Uh, you know, ultimately. I think it’s a good movie. You’re right. I mean, it’s a pretty typical ghost story, but the performances were strong enough that I was invested in these characters.

It’s gosh. Now the little girls I thought were fantastic, Jessica Chasteen I, you know, I say this. But it happens a lot. She had to carry this movie on her back. This movie was about, 

Todd: it really was. I mean, all the male characters really in this movie are sidelined or they’re kind of one like the doctor, you know, um, the doctor’s assistant has more humanity than the doctor does, you know, and she’s a woman.

So I think that’s kind of fitting maybe for the theme of the film, by the way. Do you think that Annabel wears the same misfits shirt every day? Or does she have like a whole bunch of them in her closet? Just come 

Craig: out? She, she probably wears the same one every day. She’s that rock and roll. I think 

Todd: that was her costume for the entire movie.

I do not remember her wearing anything else even to court. I think she had that misfits shirt, 

Craig: the whole mosque saying I don’t really get. The moving through the walls was kind of cool. And, you know, it projected when she was going to appear or when she was nearby. I, my favorite one was when she, it actually looked really, really cool at one point when she sunk through the floor.

Uh, and, and for a moment, she was, it was like she was in water, but just her eyes and the top of her head were above the floor, kind of looking at Anabel and then. And Jean just saw her hair move it, like, like just her hair was above the floor, like moving around the floor and coming at her overall, the effects were good.

You know, again, we’re, we’re running long. I’m trying to recap it. I can’t really think of much negative to say I’m not a huge fan of CGI. Um, I think that it definitely has its place and you can do really cool things with it, but for me, for it to be effective at S to look really good. And in this movie, I thought it looked good.

I didn’t think it looked really good. So, um, that, you know, I didn’t absolutely love, but beyond. I thought it was a good movie. I cared about the characters. You’re absolutely right with the cinematography. They did have different motifs, you know, with, with color and, um, other visual cues that I thought were real.

I think that, uh, Andy, Andy machete is a fine director. Um, and, uh, yeah, quite good. And I think that we’ll be seeing a lot more from. 

Todd: He did just to remind everyone he did it, uh, the new remakes of it as well. And I guess he’s got the flash and post-production 

Craig: and yeah, so, so overall I think this is a good movie.

I recommend it. Uh, it’s it’s spooky. It’s atmospheric. It’s it’s, it’s pretty scary, uh, in parts and, uh, the acting is, is good. The characterization is good. I liked it. And I didn’t mind watching it a couple of times in the last couple of weeks, so yeah. Check it out. 

Todd: Well, thank you again for listening to another episode.

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This German production that premiered recently on Netflix has a lot going for it. It’s a new take on the “terrorists on an airplane” genre brings in a horror twist that adds a lot of depth, intrigue, and loads of action to this excellent movie. We both loved it!

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Blood Red Sky (2022)

Ep 294, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, here we are recording this next episode. Insider information for you guys: You might’ve noticed that we didn’t have too much up in March. And so we are recording this episode about a month after we actually watched the movie.

So we might be, we might be plowing through this to the best of our abilities, but Craig. And we have notes and we’re going to do the best we can, but what way to 

Craig: set up expectations? It’s going to be great out. 

Todd: Well, we got to be honest, right? Well, before we go forward into the movie, I do want to take a moment to just mention the fact that probably many of you know, by now that we’ve launched a Patrion campaign, we’ve received a better response than I ever imagined we would get.

I just w really, really. And I’m humbled by the support that we’ve received. And right now, I just want to thank by name those people who at the time of this recording have become patrons of our podcast and joined our community. So thank you very much to Heather Ryan, Dave, Neil, Carrie, Gary, and us.

Adrian mark, Jessica, Christian. Aquaman. That’s that’s exciting. Leisha and Lorraina. Thank you so much for your support for going to our Patrion page, just supporting our podcast and feeling compelled to help us out. In the various things that we need to do to get this on the air, we really, really, really appreciate your support.

And we’re going to do our best to get all those goodies and those rewards out to you. All of you should already have access to our exclusive interview, that 90 minute interview that’s up on our Patrion page. And starting from now you should also be receiving full unedited versions of our podcast up there on the Patrion page.

And we’ll be posting more. Minisodes here very shortly for you guys. A little tastes of that interview. For those of you out there who are maybe a little undecided about yet, whether or not you want to to join our little community, we’re going to give you a little bit of a taste of what of what there is out on our regular feed.

I’ll be waiting for that. Thank you guys so much. Yeah. 

Craig: Thank you. That’s that’s the first time I’ve heard that list of names and some of them are familiar. I w I’ve chatted with a few of you, but some of you I’ve not chatted with and look forward to. Going forward. Thank you for your support. Oh, 

Todd: and we’re looking forward to getting our first recommendation for movies from this group to, since since they’ll get to vote on which request we do next, which is gonna take a huge weight off of, off of our shoulders because we lazy.

That’s true.

Well, if, if you, by the way, if you are compelled to join our Patrion group, just go to patrion.com/chainsaw podcast. Or if you just go to our regular website to guys.red, 40 net.com, there are links there as well to our Patrion page. We would appreciate any bit of support that you get, that you give. And of course, we appreciate your support, whether or not you become a patron of this podcast.

We love you all. 

Craig: All right, enough shelling. Let’s talk about the movie, 

Todd: The movie that we’re doing this week, I’m introducing it, even though it was Craig’s pick. And this is a very, very modern film from 2021. It premiered on Netflix and it’s called Blood Red Sky. I wonder how many people out there have already seen it because apparently it got quite a bit of downloads.

I think, 50 million streams or something. Yeah, which made it the most watched German release, I believe at least, which is pretty exciting. It is a German British coproduction, but mostly German film. It is subtitled, but there’s some English in there as well. And it is about. I would say vampires on a plane.

it’s all you need to know. You’ve seen snakes on a plane. These are just bigger and their fangs are scary. 

Craig: Yeah. And, and on Netflix, you also have the option of watching it dubbed, and I’ll be honest. The first time I watched it, this is one of those movies that I had never heard of. I knew nothing about, I was just looking around on all of the.

Platforms that I subscribed to, to try to put something on in the background while I was grading papers, because I was doing that, obviously I couldn’t focus on subtitles, so I watched it dubbed. And, and the dubbing is, is perfectly adequate. The second time I watched it, I was like, you know what, I’m going to be, you know, Good about this and I’m going to, I’m going to watch the original language and I’m going to read the subtitles.

And I got about five minutes into it. I was like, nah.

And I turned the dub back on just because I, I, I didn’t want to be spending all my time reading. I wanted to watch, I wanted to see what was going on. Cause there’s a lot to see there is this rarely happens because I, I intentionally try to pick things that I think are. Going to be so compelling that I’m going to get sucked in because I’m working.

But I, I failed miserably on that account on this one because I got immediately sucked in and just, just stopped grading and watched it. And I ended up, I ended up thinking it was. Really quite good. I mean, for such a simple premise, it really, I mean, no joke, Todd, you’re absolutely right. It’s vampires on a plane, but there’s more to it than that.

And there’s some really compelling stuff going on in this movie. That I found to be genuinely captivating. And I found myself really caring about some of these characters and really invested in what was going to happen. And so it, it, it got me. I like this movie I did 

Todd: too. I’m really glad that you introduced it.

You know, I think that I will pretty much. Anything on a plane. I mean, I don’t know. D R R just benign normal dramas ever produced that all take place on a plane. It’s usually action thrillers, right? A plane is this conf, is this just this natural confined space full of people who would rather not be there?

No bear, no relation to each other. Usually, you know, they, they’re all strangers and it’s cramped environment and it’s a long time. And I don’t know. I know there I’ve heard. I’ve heard tell that there are people actually enjoy the process of flying on a plane. I enjoy the process of traveling, but the, the bit of time that it takes for me to be on a plane is probably my least favorite part of that process.

Especially as a guy who put, who puts on a lot of miles and international flights. So I just feel like it’s naturally a. Compelling and interesting setting for any story, even with this, it actually, it’s very similar to a lot of movies that have nothing to do with vampires. People are hijacking a plane and people have to solve it.

And in this case, there’s a little bit of a twist in there and that somebody else on the plane is a vampire and that that’s novel, like, I guess have, is there anything like this? 

Craig: You know, the only thing that it kind of reminds me of is trained. Just because it’s a similar kind of environment, obviously that train was long.

And so they had to. Maneuver through it and get around zombies and those types of things. Plus in that movie, the train would periodically stop and they could get out. Now, obviously you can’t do that on a plane. And this is, I mean, it’s a huge commercial jet liner on an international flight. So there is room for them to move around.

And I also appreciate, you know, they, they take. I think full advantage of. Not just the passenger compartments, but the other spaces in a plane that, yeah. Right. That we, as normal passengers don’t typically have access to. But it does spread out the geography a little bit. So there are places for people to hide and, and congregate, and I just thought it worked really well.

It is a major act. Especially when you get into the vampire stuff and the vampire stuff is really good. And I’m excited to talk about that and the design and the violence and the gore of which there is an insane amount. But for me, that was secondary. What this story is really about is a mother and son.

Okay, let’s start at the beginning. It’s it starts out at an airbase in Scotland where a plane is being directed for an emergency landing there being a scored into an emergency landing. And we hear through dialogue with the. In the tower and other people that supposedly there are explosives on board, they get the plane landed and the emergency hatch, or a hatch opens up and a young boy, a very young boy.

Climbs down some cargo netting to get out. And it’s just this little boy with a Teddy bear and we see that there’s a man in the cockpit and all of these military guys all around, have their guns trained on this guy in the cockpit. And they get the boy inside, like the tower building or control area or whatever.

And this lady starts questioning him and it flashes back to. Bald woman who ends up being our main character, Nadia I’m in a bathroom and we see her putting on a wig and, and seemingly preparing to go out. Then we see this young boy at the baggage check, checking himself in, and the lady’s like, well, where’s your mom.

And, and he’s like, oh, she’s coming. She just told me to do this. And eventually she arrives at the airport. It’s nighttime. I think she’s wearing sunglasses. She’s she seems kind of meek, like she’s out going out of her way to not draw attention to herself and the set up. And I think it’s a very clever set up is that she has some sort of illness, which I immediately, because of her bald head assumed.

Was cancer and, and she’s going to. The United States to have this experimental procedure done, which basically I think comes down to a blood transfusions slash blood cleansing type of thing. So, and she’s in the bathroom taking pills and giving herself injections and I’m thinking, oh, okay, well, this here’s this drama of this apparently single mother.

Child and she’s ill. And, and she’s going for this special treatment, which ultimately. It’s true. They also meet a nice man far read, I think is his name Elias, the little boy kind of befriends this nice middle Eastern man who is going to be on the. Plain. And he tells him what’s going on, that his mom’s going for a bone marrow transplant and stuff, but then they board the plane and there are these, the movie makes a point of making it very clear that some of the men on this flight are shady and, and ultimately it pays off very quickly because really no sooner are they in the air, then one of the male flight attendants and several.

Male passengers on the plane reveal themselves to be. Terrorists or something. I mean, we don’t know immediately what their motives are, but they take control of the plane. And from that point for the next 10, 15 minutes or so, it is your very typical kind of thriller hijack movie. The guy who had been posing as a flight attendant, which by the way, that plan had to have been in motion for.

Years

Todd: show up as a flight attendant. 

Craig: You don’t just show up a like, apply and they’re like, okay, well we’ll have you on the next international flight. But he, he is this he’s a bad guy. 

Todd: He’s insane. Yeah, just he’s just off his rocker kind of bad, the distinct, 

Craig: so Disney’s associate path and he’s very violent and he’s, he’s very menacing and threatening to the passengers and.

Elias, who I just want to say is a very cute kid and plays a significant role in this movie. And the young actor who played this kid does an excellent job. The relationship between this mother and son is so apparent and so believable. Yeah. Transfixed. I was rooting for them. I wanted them to be okay, but he’s also precocious smart, like a smart kid out of.

The seat pocket in front of him, he pulls up like one of the safety manuals or something, which shows a diagram of the plane and shows the cargo hold. And he says to his mom, look, we should sneak down here and hide down there. And she says, no, just stay where you are when she’s not looking. He kind of climbs over her back and starts running the terrorist guys start.

They notice that he’s moving in and she gets on her. To try to retrieve him. I don’t think that she’s trying to escape or anything, but she’s trying to retrieve him and sociopath eight ball shoots her multiple times in the chest and she falls down on her back as blood pools around her and seemingly dies 

Todd: right in front of him.

Right. 

Craig: As he’s weeping. Over her. And one of the other terrorists, the other guys, I mean, they’re all bad guys, but they’re not just a sadistic, you know, they’re not pleased that this has happened. It was unnecessary. It was avoidable, but. It has happened. And so they returned the kid to his seat kind of gently and, and tell him to stay where he is at that point.

I didn’t know where it was going. I didn’t know. I didn’t know anything about this movie going in. I had no idea it was no nothing. And I had no idea it was a vampire movie. And so moving forward. Pleasantly 

Todd: surprised. Yeah. I didn’t know either. I, you know, you told me this movie blood red sky, and then I turned it on and it was clearly going to be about, you know up, up in the, in the sky, in an airplane, the hijacking started, but I knew something was up.

I knew a it’s a horror movie. I had the suspicion earlier on that there was going to be vampire ism involved because. It does flash back. It’s interesting how it cuts between the action and the plane and flashbacks into the more recent past of the mother in this kid. And. His father, the one thing that really struck me about the mother and the son, like you said, you’re right.

Their relationship. They seemed very close. They seemed believable, but also they, from the very beginning seem like people who have seen tough times there’s just a morose ness about it, just like a sadness. And at first I thought that that probably had to do with her sickness. You know, they’re both aware.

That she has this cancer and she’s going to get this blood treatment. But knowing that this was a horror movie. I was kind of, I did kind of have in the back of my mind, I’ll bet there’s more to it than that. And you know, the fact that they kept flashing back to this one night where she and her family her husband and him were driving through the darkness in the snow through the countryside and their car breaks down.

And we see that kind of, part of the story in the past play out that I thought. Okay. Yeah. She’s clearly got some background in. It’s probably going to end up being supernatural may be vampire. I was able to kind of put that together pretty quickly and then not because I’m super smart. I just think the movie does a pretty good job of dropping down some clues that you can definitely pick up on.

If, you know, you’re coming in 

Craig: on, if I remember correctly, that first flashback comes right when 

Todd: she’s shot this, the second one, but yeah. 

Craig: And you don’t know right away with what’s happening, you know, they, they seem like a happy family. The son is an infant in the flashbacks and they just seem very happy.

Very normal. Of course, you, obviously, the husband’s not around, so something must have happened. And these flashbacks are parceled out over the course of the movie, but you’re right. Like even in the first one, you know, some, you know, something’s going on. And then basically, like you said, their car breaks down in the middle of the road, like on a mountain, in the middle of a blizzard.

And he goes off looking for help. But I think. At some point, maybe the second flashback or something, he hasn’t returned. It’s been a long time and he hasn’t come back. So she with her baby goes out looking for him w which I remember thinking. And that’s really foolish, which is just stay in the car. But at the same time, I mean, eventually if nobody shows up, you’re going to have to do something.

So she goes looking 

Todd: for him. I have to say. Caught a cautionary tale as a person, you know, has been married for a while. And who has a kid don’t ever do that? If you could get breakdown or whatever, like that one person goes off into the blinding Snell leaving the other two behind, it’s just going to be a recipe for disaster.

Like just all three of you head out. And if it gets to be too much, just. Pace your way back to the car and figure something else out. You know what I mean? 

Craig: I mean, cause it looked like where they were was very remote. I don’t know what he was. It’s not like there’s a gas station down the road. Right. I, I don’t remember which comes first.

I kind of feel like the reveal happens before we see, because she eventually does. What has happened to her husband. But I think that that’s after the reveal, we, we, you know, as 

Todd: it just 

Craig: before. Gotcha. I don’t know exactly what’s going on. The passengers float around theories about what they think these guys are doing.

What I do know is that they for. All of the male passengers on the plane of middle Eastern descent. They forced them to record terrorist messages as though they. Are the ones who have hijacked the plane and our nice guy, far read tries to because I don’t think all of the terrorist guys are Caucasian.

And, and they force them to record these messages in English and in. I dunno, what did they speak Arabic? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And so far read assumes that they don’t speak Arabic. And so when he’s asked to record the message, he tells the truth in Arabic, but apparently one of them knows enough Arabic to know what he’s doing and shoots one of the other guys as a warning.

So there, they’re setting these other guys up and they’re planning. The terrorists themselves are going to evacuate the plane. I still don’t know what their end game is. Some of the passengers it’s money, but like the passengers think that it has something to do with like the stock market. Like any time that there’s a major terrorist event, like the stock market crashes or something.

Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s all, 

Todd: it’s all shorted stocks or something. I 

Craig: don’t know, it’s all, it’s all motivated by greed and money, but ultimately it doesn’t really matter while they’re doing their thing and making their plans and making these guys record these messages and stuff. We get a shot of Nadia. Dead on the ground, but she’s not dead.

She wakes up and it’s impossible. I mean, she was shot multiple times at close range in the torso, in the chest. It’s just absolutely impossible that she could be alive and she makes her way into the bathroom. She’s without her medicine. She can’t take her pills. She can’t give herself her injections and immediately she begins to change.

She, she looks at herself in the mirror. Her eyes have started to change. Her ears have started. I don’t remember if she was wearing prosthetics on our ears or she was just covering her ears with her hair. I think she was kind of keeping her ears covered with her hair, but when she takes her wig off, you see that she’s kinda got these pointy ears she takes off.

She’s got Teeth. And she, she takes them off to reveal that she’s got fangs that seem to be kind of growing and becoming more prominent. She’s a vampire. Somehow she makes her way down to the cargo bay where all of the animals, dogs that are traveling are down there in barking. And she ends up.

Eating this little dog

and you know how I feel about dogs. You know, how I feel about dog, 

Todd: which is why I’m so surprised. You’re laughing about her eating a little dog. 

Craig: It didn’t bother me cause it served the store. So, well, in fact, there’s just a brief moment of hesitation. Like she doesn’t really want to do it, but it appears that she needs blood to strengthen herself because she is, you know, injured, it appears to work.

And one of the terrorists guys ends up kind of finding her down there and she eats him too. Now at this point, I don’t know how specific you want to be about the. I because it’s exciting and it right. And it’s exciting and there’s constantly stuff going on. I don’t know that going through it beat by beat really makes a lot of sense.

Todd: I think I agree. It’s going through beat by beat would be like going through con air or, you know, air force one or something like that, beat by beat. It’s just, it’s a complicated mess of scenarios where the hijackers find her and then they, they, she eats them and then she kind of gets away. And then, you know, it’s just, it’s too much to describe, but what is also happening, like we had said earlier is we’re getting flashbacks to the past where we.

We get the fuller picture of what happened. And obviously what happened is we’re seeing the incident where she turned into the vampire and that is, she went up to a farmhouse that she just kind of assumed her husband went into. And as she gets there she gets attacked by a snarling creature.

That’s clearly, you know, a vampire or whatever, and and bitten by him and her husband’s dad and all that. So I just felt like the tragic. It’s sort of like tragedy upon tragedy, right? This woman bitten her husband’s dead. So now she’s a single mother. She’s had to raise this boy up to the age he is now in the meantime, it’s the tragedy of the vampire, you know, that we talked about with Dracula, right?

Nobody really wants to be this anymore. And so she’s looking for a cure. Maybe she’s found it in this treatment that she’s going to get in the USA. So all that kind of starts to fall into place in our understanding. And I do wonder, do you think her son is fully aware 

Craig: oh yes. A hundred percent. Yup. He knows exactly what’s going on because eventually.

She comes back up. I mean, like you said, she kills, she kills a couple of the terrorists, I think. And she comes back up to get her son. I think that her coming back up to get her son coincides with the. Terrorists. They, they leave the passengers. They tell them to stay seated, to keep their hands on the front of the seat in front of them.

And they say like, we’re going to be leaving you for awhile. But if you try to get up there’s, I don’t know what they say. Like there’s motion sensors or something that are going to trigger, trigger this deadly. Which is fake, which is a lie, right? I mean, they acknowledge to the, to us, the audience that it’s fake, but the passengers don’t know that they descend down into the cargo hold and are planning to jump.

One of the pilots is in on it. They’ve had him to send to a level where they can safely jump using parachutes, I guess. And this is just unfortunate timing because Nadia comes up and, and. At this point, her track, her transformation is progressive. But at this point she has progressed pretty far.

And I really like the, the vampire look in this movie. I mean, it’s clearly inspired by Nosferatu. She looks. Count or lock is that as, I don’t know, the, the main, the main vampire in Nosferatu, the bald head, the pointy ears, the luminescent eyes, the, the sh the sharp. It’s not, it’s not just her incisors that are it’s.

All of her teeth are sharp and it looks really good. She, she’s frightening to look at, and of course, The passengers are terrified of her, but Elian isn’t he knows that it’s his mother and he, he seems to know what her affliction is and he’s trying to keep her calm. She gets him and they get into the cockpit with the help of Fareed and some other guy on board who had some flight experience.

They turn the plane, they turn it around. She’s desperate to. To New York, the terrorists had had, I think, diverted the plane in some way, and she gets them to divert it back. Unfortunately, the terrorists have not yet jumped and they realize that the plane is changing course. And so they don’t jump. And then.

It’s a battle between the two forces? Well, 

Todd: there are two interesting dynamics here. I think, I think the first interesting dynamic is she also seems to be struggling with keeping it together. Right. Because I guess the notion is that like when she feeds, then she becomes more monstrous and maybe less in control of her emotions.

And she, you know unable to control the beast and therefore would lash out and perhaps become more dangerous. Or at the very least just not have the mental capacity to be able to reason through. Well, 

Craig: and that’s the thing too. Like I, you know, we find out that she’s been treating herself with these drugs that she actually got from the site where she was bitten.

She was, she was bitten on the hands by the vampire that killed her husband. And then by keeping him outside, she was able to kill him because the sun came up and he died. She returns later to, I don’t even remember why she goes back. Maybe just hope. Find some answers I don’t even know, but when she goes back, she, the vampire that bitter, his dad is there and he’s angry that she killed his son and he explained.

You know, we’re vampires and we’re beasts and we’re monsters. And, you know, we have to be eradicated to keep this from spreading world. Yeah. And, and he tried, and he’s a vampire too, but she somehow is able to best him. And then she finds in his refrigerator, these drugs, and these are the drugs that she’s been injecting herself with.

Now I’m fascinated with this part of the story. I don’t understand it. I guess that these drugs somehow suppress the vampirism and she needs it to, to suppress it. Like you said, when she feeds, it seems to increase her Bloodlust and like you said, make her less in control of herself. The question that kept, that I kept asking myself is do her doctors in New York?

No, she’s a vampire. Like, are these, are there doctors in the world who are giving vampires bone marrow transfusions to cure them of their vampirism? 

Todd: That’s a good question.

Well, I mean, that’s, what’s novel about this movie too, is it’s vampires on a plane, but the vampire is actually the good guy, right? He she’s like, thank God she’s there. Right. Cause she’s sort of like the secret weapon for the passengers, except they don’t really know that for sure. In the chaos of everything, she might even see more monstrous than the terrorist.

And so like she, she’s also kind of in danger anyway, not that the passengers are really mobilizing and doing much. They are almost, you know, 

Craig: well, they do well, they are, but they do. They, I mean, they, they try to attack her at at least one point until she kind of proves herself. I think that she kills one of the main terrorists in front of the passengers and Fareed and Elias are shouting at the passengers.

Like she’s on our side, she’s on our side. And so eventual. They’re skeptical as I certainly would be, but they kind of just, they kind of just stepped back and let her do her thing. But because it’s, you know, on a plane, Nadia and for Reed and alias are able to lock themselves in the cockpit and the terrorists are on the other side of the door, but the terrorists keep bringing passengers to the front and saying, if you.

Open the door. We’re just going to keep executing people until you open it. And they do, they, they execute a couple of people right there where, you know, through the people and eventually they bring up a little girl or a ball 

Todd: does. Right. 

Craig: And she eventually. She has to come out and she does, and she kills one of the big, main terrorists and there’s fighting and, and, and eight ball is not only sadistic, but capable.

He figures out that she’s a vampire and starts proceeding with that in mind. So he has like a black light flash. Which I don’t know if that makes sense. They would probably have those on planes. And, and he uses it to immobilize her. He has her down on the ground immobile. And you think that he’s going to kill her immediately, but instead he pulls out a syringe.

And draws blood from her neck and, and like puts the syringe in his pocket. And then he’s got like a, I don’t know, some big stick, like a pool stick or something. I don’t know that he’s fashioned into a steak and he’s getting ready to stay curb, but ileus appears having fun. A gun from one of the air marshals or something.

And alias, I think fires the gun. It doesn’t hit a eight ball, but I think it breaks a window and, and depressurizes the cabin, which is more chaos. But, but she, nausea is able to get away for a little while. The thing that I thought, and again, I’m sure there’s more business than I’m leaving out, but the next really exciting.

Part is there’s kind of a cat and mouse with eight ball and Nadia and she ends up chasing him down to the cargo area where there’s a car. And it must be a very expensive fancy car because it seems like it’s Bulletproof. Like she, she, he locks himself in there and she’s beating on the windshield trying to get in and it just, it won’t break.

And so eventually she has a gun and I think she, or no, she gets, she gets some kind of big like metal, metal rod and, and, and try stabbing him through. And, and she does get it through the windshield, but it doesn’t. Reach him. And he just grabs it and pulls it through when it appears that she may eventually be able to get in.

He pulls that syringe out of his pocket and injects himself with it. And she’s mortified. You know, she is, she is mortified that this is happening me. Keep in mind that she’s full on vampire. So she like she’s monstrous and her makeup is fantastic. Prosthetics are great. She looks amazing. She looks, oh my God, it’s so good.

This actress is really good. Well acted throughout. Yes. The guy, the guy who plays eight ball is, is just a nightmare. Like, like he’s so crazy. And you know, she’s thinking the same thing that we’re thinking this crazy guy has a vampire. Nope and wave 

Todd: exactly. It’s it’s also exactly what he wants to do. I mean, this is perfectly within his character, right?

Like this guy’s insane. He’s just, he’s just this insane sociopathic guy. And he sees the opportunity here, you know, to become the one thing that nobody could beat. And so then he becomes the perfect foil to her. I just, I feel like the movie in this way is really well plotted because. There’s always this danger.

That is a very real and very difficult, very believable. And it’s just one step ahead. You know, the, the stakes continually get elevated and having eight ball there is essential to that. You know, this is the sociopathic guy who will do anything. So the danger is. He will even turn on his own people if need be.

Now he wants to be a vampire and he injects himself with these, this blood to become a vampire. So now she’s going to be perfectly matched, you know, with this guy, maybe even outmatched, because this guy’s insanely crazy. But then the other thing, it was really important that they have a Leah’s in the picture.

I think, because that is also like our concern is that he, he’s not a vampire, you know, he’s not immortal. He’s, he’s very much in peril. And the movie did a very good job of, of you know, setting them up as sympathetic characters and, and the, the love between his mother and the son and them trying to kind of get through this stuff.

So she also has to protect him if he wasn’t in the picture, the stakes wouldn’t be as high. Film. So it’s just one thing after another, honestly, it’s like these action movies tend to go, but you know, they’re always find some excuse for some reason to continually elevate the stakes to the point where you don’t think that the hero can possibly escape, but here it was just so cool that there was a supernatural element where this has good guy vamp.

I really, really liked this aspect. And then the fact that the bad guy could also then turn himself into just as vicious, if not more of a monster and possibly just have the upper hand entirely. So I got really interested. I was always interested in the movie. I thought there was always something interesting to.

There was always a question was always, it’s just kind of action packed. And at this point you’re just like, holy shit, what is she going to do? We’re in for a major showdown, you know, she, 

Craig: she thinks that she’s taken care of it because she finds something. I don’t know, some sort of flammable liquid, I don’t know what it is.

But she pour, as, you know, as he’s injecting himself, she, her. Flammable liquid through the small hole in the windshield that she was able to make. And it splashes all over him and she lights a match and tosses it in and he goes up in flames screaming. And I think that she thinks that she has taken care of it.

That sh that she was able to stop it before it was too late. Of course he does survive, which I also think is another. Just really a cool idea because when he finally does emerge, not only is he a vampire, but he’s terribly burned. And so the, the makeup there is, is outstanding as well. But the other thing, you know, I like all of this.

I love all the vampire stuff. It’s very exciting. The movie’s two hours long, which frankly is a little long for me. It didn’t feel long at all. And I was engaged the whole. Same here, but there are secondary things going on. First of all, I’ve not given far read nearly enough credit. He’s a really good guy.

He’s a surrogate father. And in this movie she had, at one point, I don’t remember it. It’s pretty late in the movie. But at one point she kind of hands Aelius over to him and said, Promise me that you’ll make sure that he’s okay. And, and that’ll make 

Todd: it outta 

Craig: here. Yeah. Right, right. And, and, and he does, and he does, you know, take risks, you know, he goes out of his way to, to take care of this kid.

He, he’s a, he’s a good guy. He’s a hero in the movie. He deserves credit for that, but there’s, there’s also human drama. Like these, these passengers. You know, they’re all in the same boat, they’re all in danger. They’re all scared. And heroes emerge. There’s one guy who I think is ex-military, but he’s in like basketball shorts and a like a schleppy t-shirt and like flip flops.

And, and he’s a big guy. He runs around throwing his weight around fighting terrorists. Heroic as well, but there are also terrible selfish people. There’s one older gentlemen who, at some point all the passengers are running. I think they’re running from Nadia. And it’s, it’s basically a stampede and his wife.

Falls down and is trampled to death. Now, obviously anybody would be upset by that, but he is so stricken by his grief and anger that he lashes out at Nordea. He says, it’s her fault. He tries to kill her and he has to be subdued. There’s also just this asshole, like stock market guy who only cares about himself.

Eventually we, eight ball comes out of the car. He is a vampire. Now he killed. A couple of his friends, the terrorists to feed on them, to strengthen himself. And he turns at least one of them intentionally into a vampire as well, but they’ve got them trapped down in the cargo hold. And so they think that they’re going to be able to.

To get the plane somewhere and keep those couple of vampires trapped down there, and then they can deal with it when they land. But this asshole stock broker guy gets mortally wounded and the flight attendant who’s attending to him, trying to help him and make him comfortable. Basically says, look, I’ll do everything I can to make you comfortable.

But you know, this. This is a mortal wound. So when she has her back turned, he crawls to the entrance of the cargo hold and lets eight ball out. In the hopes that eight ball will turn him into a vampire. So he won’t die. Like he begs for that. But eight ball just kills him, but then they’re out, the vampires are out and it’s like, you know, the, the, the, the plane is like a buffet.

Todd: Exactly. 

Craig: And it just becomes. Slaughter they’re biting and killing a lot of the passengers, but a lot of the passengers are also being turned. And so then you’ve got Aelius Fareed, the copilot, and not yet in the cockpit and outside is just an entire plane full of these ravenous. Bloodthirsty vampires.

And what are they going to do? And at this point, Nadia is like, we can’t land this plane. I think initially her thought is they’ve got to crash it or, or blow it up or something. Because at this point there are dozens, if not a hundred or more. Active vampires. And if they land, I mean, it could just spread like wildfire, but they come up with a plan.

Do you remember what the plan is? It has something to do with explosives. 

Todd: No, I don’t remember. I don’t remember this last bit. 

Craig: I think that there’s some way that they can spark a debt, a detonator, and if they. And if they can do that near the fuel sources, they can blow up the plane. But the detonator, the detonator is remote.

So, so their, their thought is if we can get our hands on this remote detonator, then we can land the plane and get a far read and Aelius off. And then. Below the plaintiff. And this is the point where Nadia, it seems like she realizes that she’s not getting out of this. And, and she says as much, and she says as much to Aelius who, of course, you know, begs and says, no, we will figure it out.

We’ll get you to the doctors. But she knows she can’t. The problem that they have is to get to the, where the remote is. They would either have to go through the past. Cabin where all those vampires are, or they would have to crawl through some very small space. And the only person small enough to get through that space is ileus.

And Nadia doesn’t want to let them go, but she doesn’t give him permission, but he somehow manages. To get away and goes for it. And he has, he has the black light flashlight to kind of help him ward off any vampires. He might encounter along the way. And he does, and he gets down to the cargo hold and he gets a hold of the remote, but he also gets cornered underneath that car.

Somehow the flashlight gets knocked out of his hand and all of these vampires are surrounding the car reaching under it, trying to get him an eight ball, eventually shows up down. And is trying to get to them and it’s very close to getting to him. Nadia, I think she knows. I don’t remember if there’s cameras where they can see what’s happening, but she knows that he’s in danger.

So she goes down there and then it’s the, a showdown between her and eight ball. And it’s an intense. And I really didn’t know how it was going to turn out because they seem very evenly matched. He he’s, he’s strong. I mean, he’s been eating people left and right. And it seems like that’s how they gather their strength.

So he’s, he’s very strong at this point. I had no idea how it was going to turn out. 

Todd: Well, it turns out the Fareed kind of saves the day here. Doesn’t 

Craig: he? I don’t remember. Yeah. I remember that he gets at some point for re gets bitten the hand and they chop his hand off to keep it from spreading. 

Todd: Yes, it was crazy.

Another one of those classic vampire werewolf things. No. I think for Reed is, is in the plane, right? He’s in the cockpit, he’s steering the plane. And so during their battle because the sun is now coming up, he’s like a banking, the plane or whatever, so that the sun comes in through the window. And I believe that.

Causes eight ball. There’s like a big it’s. It’s just a big, last final battle. And th th th they’re, I think they’re in the cargo hold and the doors open. Right. And they’re trying not to get sucked out. And a eight ball is like hanging on outside the window by a. 

Craig: Nah, 

Todd: but because the sun’s coming up for Reed is able to like bank the plane to kind of in the direction of the sun so that he can’t climb back in because he kind of gets burned by the sun and he ends up I think that that causes him to burn up and he basically.

Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. This, this part was a little, gosh. I mean, it it’s a good movie when it’s like, you know, it’s an action movie, it’s a vampire movie, but it also tugged at my heart strings because at this point the cargo bay door is open and the light is coming in Aelius is standing in the light and Nadia is standing in shadow and he keeps trying to approach her and she keeps pushing him back into the.

Because she is so far gone. Now, she knows that she does. She knows she doesn’t trust herself to be near him. The vampire in her is, is too strong. She can’t control it. And so she, she keeps him away and I think of it like he’s crying and reaching out for her and calling her. And I think eventually she just turns and scampers away.

Yeah. And that’s where we come back to where we left off with the flashback, the plane lands, alias gets out with his Teddy bear. They think that a. Is one of the terrorists. And so they’re planning to kill him. And he just keeps saying, no, just let me out. Now. Of course he can’t really say the plane is full of vampires because nobody’s going to believe that.

But the problem is dusk is approaching. And if they’re unable to blow up the plane before nightfall, these vampires can. Get out and scatter to the winds. And Eliya says, trying to convince them to, to let far read out. And, but they won’t and they take Eliya. In an ambulance somehow he manages to jump out of the ambulance and starts running towards the plane.

I don’t remember how somehow Fareed is able to get out. He gets out and he’s appar apprehended by the authorities and Aelius is running towards the plane, but night has fallen and the vampires are like, you know, they look like insects you know, just kind of dropping from the plane and he sees.

His mother Nadia and he, and he, he calls out to her and she looks at him and roars and starts running at him. At which point he opens up a seam in his Teddy bear and pulls out the remote. He had had it all along. 

Todd: Did you see this by the way, did you see this 

Craig: coming. No, I had kind of forgotten about the remote 

Todd: entirely.

Well, the thing was, I, I immediately, I can’t remember when it was, it was before this, but at some point. Why does he have a Teddy bear? I don’t remember him with a Teddy bear at all. And then I was thinking back to him in the hospital and I’m like, wait a second. And so as soon as he freaked out and asked for the Teddy bear, I thought, oh shit.

Yeah, this is, yeah. They’ve, they’ve got a plan. 

Craig: Well, and, and. And he pushes the button and the entire plane explodes. It makes a huge explosion. It knocks him back, like, I don’t know, 10 feet or something, and it gets on his mom’s dead. The vampires did it. I mean, they, they S they success. They successfully executed their plan, but it’s sad, you know, he knew what he had to do, but I mean, that’s, that’s heartbreaking.

Yeah, 

Todd: but for Rita’s 

Craig: there. Yeah. And at this point, the, the, the military guys realize that Elian had been telling the truth. I’m sure they don’t understand really what’s going on, but they, they believe them enough to release Fareed and he and ileus are reunited on the tarmac. And that’s it. That’s the end.

I just thought overall it was a good movie. It was a really entertaining movie. Like it felt like. Solid. It felt, yeah, it felt like a summer blockbuster. You know, it, it felt like something that if you had the opportunity, it would be ideal to see in the theater. It’s action packed lots of great effects.

I have no complaints. I just generally have no complaints. It was well shot. It was well, the cinematography was good. The acting was good. It looked good. The makeup was great. The effects looked good. There’s lots of blood and gore. Lots of action. Never got bored. I, I just, I really don’t have any complaints.

It’s not like I would go so far as to say, well, this is the best movie I’ve ever seen. No, but it was really entertaining and gripping. And I, I would, I would definitely recommend it. I mean, w w if you’re a fan of horror, what’s not what is not to recommend here. I mean, it’s, it’s sad. 

Todd: I mean, even if you’re not a fan of horror, I think if you just like action movies, you know, like this is basically what it is.

It’s, it’s an action movie with a slight horror twist, but it’s, it’s still at its core. It’s, it’s like, You know? Yeah. I, a hundred percent agree with you. I was, I was happy to watch it. I loved it, enjoyed it thoroughly, just as much as I enjoy any other kind of action popcorn movie. And I thought that the, you know, mother son dynamic was quite touching.

You know, you compare to, to train a train to Busan. And that was another thing that really sold that film as well. Was this, this thing which then comes to a poignant end, you know, in that case, it’s a father and a daughter in this case, it’s a mother and a son, but it’s the same sort of idea. 

Craig: Yeah, it raises the stakes.

You know, it makes it, ironically, you have the humanity of these characters, even though one of them is a vampire. They have a human connection that you believe in that you care about. And, you know, I was, I was sad. I, I don’t remember it’s been a month since we watched it, but it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

If I shed a tear, it was sad. I felt, I felt terrible for the both of them. They, they had tried so hard and they had survived so long and they were on the cusp of a potential solution. And everything went wrong and it’s, it’s a sad, it’s 

Todd: sad. It is sad. And I would say, oh, they were able to save the day, but I mean, basically the whole plane full of passengers died anyway.

Right. It’s in that sense, it’s a, it’s got a true horror movie ending really well. Thank you so much for listening to our podcast today. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online by just Googling two guys and a chainsaw podcast where you can find our Twitter feed. Our. The page and our website, two guys got red, 40 net.com.

Check us out there as always leave us a message. Let us go. What you got to this episode, what you want to see coming up. And if you’re interested in joining our patrons and getting a little bit of that extra stuff that I had, I brought up earlier on the. Go to our Patrion page, patrion.com/chainsaw soft podcast, or just follow the links to our website and our Facebook page to get you there.

Thank you to all of you. And until next time I’m Todd 

Craig: and I’m Craig 

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Time to finally hit up that Hammer Horror classic that kicked the studio off into much riches and a huge pile of sequels and spinoffs. Not to mention the second pairing of the dynamic duo of Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing, which lasted through dozens of films and left an indelible mark on horror history. Was this your first introduction to Dracula?

Also, if you enjoy this episode, please meander over to our Patreon page and consider supporting this podcast. See all the goodies we have to offer our most loyal of fans!

Tran

Horror of Dracula (1958)

Episode 293, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: So today we are going back to something that I’ve been wanting to do for a very long time, especially when I heard that Craig had never seen this before. This is 1958’s Horror of Dracula. The original title was Dracula, but it got changed to horror of Dracula in order to avoid copyright issues, uh, with Universal’s Dracula in the United States.

But this is Hammer horror, film production, starring Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. One of the most iconic duos in Dracula history, and definitely the movie that put hammer films on the map. Hammer horror. I don’t know. I kind of likened this to, um, Freddy Krueger and. You know, hammer, um, you know, it was making some horror films here and there before this one, Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing were in a curse of Frankenstein.

Which was a bit of a hit for them, but it w it was this movie, the Horror of Dracula that was an international hit. It made like 25 or $28 million worldwide in 1958. Pretty much set the tone for, uh, uh, a bank rolled the studio, all this and all of these subsequent Dracula movies. That they released, I think there were seven or eight after this, that Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee or some combination thereof basically felt obligated to do for hammer and Christopher Lee himself.

I think one of the most recognizable, I think he’s played Dracula. I think it still stands that he’s played Dracula more times than any other actor ever has, at least in the movies. And he even did Dracula for other studies. So it wasn’t just the hammer series that he played Dracula. He got quite sick of it didn’t want to be typecast in this role.

In fact, my understanding is that he didn’t really even like playing Dracula in these movies because he didn’t, he didn’t really think that their version of Dracula was very true to the novel. Yeah. I mean, for a guy whose popularity really grew in burst forth on this sort of thing, I don’t think he ever came out and, you know, was openly disdainful of it.

But, uh, he definitely, it was well-known he wasn’t too keen after awhile on playing this character much more. Flint and iconic performance in as Dracula, as much as you can say, an iconic performance, he really isn’t in the movie all that much. And he doesn’t have a lot to do. And that, I think you can say that about the subsequent movies too, but I would almost argue that Dracula is kind of like that the only other time we’ve done the Dracula story, which was black ULA, right.

And it wasn’t until we saw black ULA that I think I realized the obvious, I guess that Dracula as a movie is as a story is kind of a. The play, the movies, every time I’ve ever seen the, the original Dracula story, it’s all, you know, he comes out at night and he does mysterious things. But then during the day, he’s asleep at a coffin.

So, you know, all of these shows are like, uh, oh no, somebody has been bitten. Can we save them now? Uh, what do we do? We talk about it for a while. We investigate, we try to figure out where he is or where he might strike next. We maybe set up some traps, then night comes and he does something. They almost get him or he kind of gets away and then the morning is, and then we’re subjected to more talking and investigating and discussing and you know, it’s like most of it ends up being that kind of thing.

It’s not your zombie movie action packed kind of story. Yeah. Traditionally. And so this movie is really no different, but it was very different from the universal Dracula that came out. And I think that is one thing that really appealed to people in 1958, because before that they had. Of course the Dracula novel and then the wildly popular play from which the universal movie, the Dracula movie from the thirties was based on.

And most of the Dracula adaptations actually ended up getting based on the play, which was based on the novel. And I think this is what. First movies of its time. Anyway, that said, let’s go back to the source material, shake things up a little bit from that place. So you don’t have it all sort of happening in the same area.

It’s not all the same for characters Renfield is not even in this at all. Right. It even puts it in. Like the whole movie is in Germany, which is interesting. And I think they did that for budgetary reasons or just to kind of simplify things on the production end. So here we have the horror of Dracula and personally, from my perspective, this was the first Dracula movie I ever saw and I saw it on TV.

I think it was probably a Saturday morning and it made a deep impression on me, one or two scenes that I really remember the most obviously are the scenes where Dracula attacks, but the. Of the movie where Dracula dissolves once he’s exposed to the light and the whole fight scene that happens there was just permanently.

Impressed upon my brain as a kid. And is one of those things that even as an adult, I always go back to is something that really freaks me out really scared me really, really stuck with me over the years. I don’t know if anybody watching it today is going to have the same feelings that I had when I was a kid watching this for the first time.

But maybe kids today watching this for the first time. I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a different movie in a different time period, but, uh, I was so happy to revisit it after not having. Pretty much since that time. So how about you, Craig? I guess you had never seen this before, right? Or do you remember maybe catching a glimpse of it or two as a kid?

Craig: No. I mean, I’ve seen images from it and in all of the like retrospectives and documentaries that I’ve watched about classic horror monster movies it’s always discussed. Um, but I had never seen it being a big fan of horror in general. I remember reading the novel. In high school and. Being surprisingly underwhelmed 

Todd: by it.

Yeah, me too. A hundred percent here. I’m 

Craig: thinking, you know, it’s Dracula. That’s, that’s awesome. You know, the, the iconic vampire story, and then it’s this a pistol airy, novel. It’s all told through like letters and journals, diaries, 

Todd: pigs, and like, 

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s really. Very exciting.

And ultimately that’s how I felt about this movie too. Like, uh, I get it like, but I know the story of Dracula. In fact, I know it better than this movie seems to, and that that’s not fair because I understand that for budgetary reasons and even just simple, you know, for. The sake of time, you know, for the sake of time, you can’t include all of the characters and all of the subplots and relationships of which there are a lot in the novel.

You can’t include all of that, but this. The story just felt a kind of watered down and I can’t help, but compare it to the only Dracula that I am really familiar with, which is Bram Stoker’s Dracula and, and Bram 

Todd: Stoker the movie. Right. Francis Ford Coppola did the night. Right? 

Craig: Right. It was just, it was done really well.

It was sexy. And Dracula was really scary. And like some of the things that they eliminated from this for budgetary reasons, like any notion of Dracula’s shape-shifting abilities and that types of stuff, like it’s, it’s vaguely mentioned. 

Todd: Another thing. I always understood that if there were such things they could change themselves into bats or wolves, that’s a common fantasy Homeland.

The study of these creatures as being my life’s work, I cut it up. It says for some of the greatest artists in Europe, and yet we’ve only just scratched the surface. You see a great deal is known about the Vimpat bet, but details of these reanimated bodies of the. The undead as we call them, let’s say obscure.

Many biologists, but 

Craig: not believe they exist. Dracula is only in the movie for seven minutes. In that seven minutes, he only has 16 lines. Those are all at the very, very beginning, the rest of the time, he just grunts and snarls at people. And he just shows up every once in a while to walk into a woman’s room.

Like that’s it that’s the role, but just walk into a woman’s room. Kind of menacing kind of sexy, but 

Todd: to be fair, isn’t that basically Dracul, I mean, isn’t that kind of like, I mean, every Dracula we’ve ever seen on the screen, not, not, you know, vampires, we’re talking Dracula Dracula right there. That pretends to be based on Bram Stoker’s novel.

I mean like Francis Ford Coppola’s Dracula was trying really, really hard and it was, you know, they, they had like reincarnation and flashbacks and speculative material in their trying, you know, Super sexy, sort of orgiastic lesbian scenes and things like that. I mean, it was really trying to go over the top and I think you could argue took its own liberties right on the Bram Stoker novel in order to, to be that.

So I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a more faithful adaptation, although it pretended to be, I guess maybe 

Craig: it just has something to do with the fact that I saw it when I was in high school and it was really sexy 

Todd: and it was, there’s no question about it. And 

Craig: I don’t know if I’d say it was scary, but it definitely had its scary moments with, um, was it Anthony Hopkins?

Is that who, who was it that played Dracula Gary Oldman. He played the younger Dracula, but I don’t remember if they just put him in super old makeup or if there was another actor that played him as an older guy. I don’t remember, but like this shadows stretching across the wall, the almost, I don’t know.

I really liked that movie. And so. Watching this one, you know, I was thinking, I was thinking my dad probably saw this in the theater on a Saturday afternoon for a nickel and probably loved it. 

Todd: Yeah, you’re probably right. Or Todd saw it on a Saturday afternoon after Saturday morning cartoons and also loved it.

Craig: Yeah. By comparison, just. Based on the time period in which it was made compared to today. It’s just, it’s really, really tame, frankly. I just, I was, was. Board. I did appreciate, you know, it’s cool to see Peter Cushing and, uh, these, these other guys who I know are, are horror icons and, and, and rightfully so.

And I respect that and having seen them in other things, you know, particularly. More contemporary things. I mean, both these main guys were in the star wars films, which I was a huge fan of as a kid. And so they’re really familiar and there’s comfort in that familiarity, but just as far as, uh, the movie itself goes, I don’t know, like even the, the characters, the characters that I wanted to be invested in, like I I’m in the novel.

And it’s been so long, but, um, I remember being particularly invested in the characters of, um, Lucy and Mina, knowing that they were both constantly threatened and at risk, I was really into that and like, I just didn’t get that from this. I didn’t particularly care. I don’t care 

Todd: for it’s hard. Right? It’s hard to know.

I mean, at, for me, maybe you don’t feel this way, but for me, I’m just, I’m still familiar with the Dracula story. There’s no tension there anymore. There’s no mystery. This movie that’s I, again, I, I, and I, I felt the same way about black, yellow. Really. The only thing that kind of kept me interested in black ULAs was like, you know, how do they kind of switched it up?

But ultimately I think we both agreed the story was just dread Dracula’s story, you know? Just that we all know it. And it’s kind of boring really. I mean, the idea of it is pretty freaky, but if it’s like a mystery where you already know the plot, you’re just going to sit there and, um, and watch unfold, what you expect to unfold.

And so the movie’s trying really hard to make it a mystery, but it’s following the same. Result that you always get. So I was trying to look at it like I was trying to watch this movie, like, what if I didn’t know the Dracula story and I was seeing this movie for the first time, how well constructed is the story?

How are the beats, how are the reveals like as a mystery, as a, these guys trying to figure out what’s happening. And I just tried to put myself in that frame of mind when I watched it, but you’re absolutely right. I mean, nobody, I think who right now, It’s familiar with the story is going to be very interested in this.

And even the Dracula story, I will again say, I still think the Dracula story itself is rather boring. The novel is rather boring. I was also disappointed by the novel. It wasn’t at all what I expected, but, you know, I mean, it’s obviously had some resonance for a very long time. It is kind of at its core.

It’s a scary concept, right? This creature, this person who’s was a person wants, but presumably, but is now just a shell of that. And almost unrecognizable clearly doesn’t like the torment that they’ve been confined to for the rest of their lives as an immortal creature. Just sort of like, just to live, actually, I think it was Christopher Lee who felt this way about the novel and was like trying to imbue this in the character of the movie.

This guy, like he’s got some humanity there, but it’s long gone. You know, there may be glimmers of it, but right now, like he doesn’t care. Like he just doesn’t even want to be living anymore. He’s just going through the motions of, of life, but he’s not happy about it at all. And, and there’s some distance there, you know, there’s some, I think maybe some of that is.

Makes it a little hard to get behind him as anything other than just this monster that goes out and gets people. Right. Um, you can have sympathy in the idea of what he has become, but now here’s who he is. And so you watch this character on the screen and it just seems rather. I don’t. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does 

Craig: make sense. And you know, I think that Dracula as written by Bram Stoker, you know, I think that there, and I’m, I’m not in any way, like formally educated about this kind of stuff. So don’t cite me in your research paper or anything, but like there, there has been lore of vampiric creature.

Forever. Um, but I think that kind of the way that in pop culture we’ve defined vampires is very much based on Dracula and, um, the, the sensual and seductive. Nature of vampires, I think comes largely from this. Um, it is, uh, you know, Dracula while obviously a threat. I mean, he’s, he’s, he’s gonna kill you and, or potentially turn you into this, you know, undead creature that has to feed on human blood.

So there’s definitely that, that dark, um, You know, a cult kind of, uh, element to it, but he’s also like a Mac, you know, like 

Todd: all women’s 

Craig: smooth, all women’s swim moon, you know, they are, they are more than happy to surrender themselves. Um, even in this movie, you know, The one woman, Mina is a married woman who immediately succumbs to the seduction and hides it from her husband and, and, uh, everybody else initially until she’s found out.

But it is, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s clearly there there’s a sexual element to it. And I almost feel like in the 1950s, this was a way. To get away with some overt sexuality without making it too graphically sexual. Like I know that at one point, uh, the woman who plays, I don’t remember if it was the woman who plays Lucy or Mina, but, um, the, the director after her encounter with Dracula, she was.

Sure of how she should behave in the aftermath. It was Mina and the director said, just act like you’ve just had the best sex of your entire life. And it lasted all night long.

And. Ah, that’s appealing.

So, so there are elements of it that the elements are there. It’s just in sitting down and watching the whole thing as you well know, I am not drunk. To film from this era and by nature, just because of the dynamics of cinema at the time, it was pushing the envelope, I think for the time. But, but, but compared to what we’re used to, and you could show this to a kindergarten class, that’s an exaggeration.

There, there is some violence in blood and gore a little bit, but it’s, it’s very, very mild. 

Todd: And what isn’t mild, what is sort of sexual is going to go right over their heads, right? It’s it’s not, it’s not that graphic. I mean, I’m happy with what we’re doing. I really have no interest in going beat by beat through this movie.

I don’t know if you do it. It’s basically the Dracula story. So that’s why I’m so happy to skip around. But when you bring up the sexuality, like the women in this movie are gorgeous as is typical for the time. You know, they have that certain makeup, they have that certain sort of bombshell style starlet, starlet.

Yeah. And they’re wearing a. Again, nowadays, we wouldn’t think these are racy type outfits, but I would say about half the time, if not, most of the time Lucy is in her night clothes and they’re flowy and her boobs are perky, you know, and she’s got a beautiful hairstyle and makeup and everything like that.

And I mean that doesn’t even go unnoticed by, you know, 40 something year old Todd today. But that scene where, you know, she opens. It’s kind of cute. I mean, we all know the story, but like, you know, they, that Lucy’s is feeling a little sick and they’re not sure what’s wrong with her van Helsing leaves or, or the doctor leaves or whatever.

And they close the door and in it’s nighttime and she’s going to bed and instantly she gets up and she opens the window, which are basically the doors to her room to let Dracula in. And she just goes, and she opens the window. She’s super excited. She’s got that hungry look on her face, you know, and she goes, and she just, she lays down in bed.

Here. I am come take me. Oh, right. And that totally communicates. Even in 2022, I thought that was pretty hot. 

Craig: Sure. I mean, and it’s so old Hollywood, you know, her hair, you know, her friend out on the pillow at one arm above her head, you know, like yeah. Lab, 

Todd: but also the look on her face is just. You know, it’s like, she’s waiting for her Tinder date.

Like she just knows what to expect. And I, I mean, it’s, it’s nice. I have to say I liked that bit of this. Um, and, and, you know, I think that Bela Lugosi loved to brag and talk about how the vampire it is sexy and I’m a sexy vampire, but I don’t get that from the universal Dracula. You know what I mean? I don’t really buy that.

He’s that sexy, even for his time. I haven’t 

Craig: seen it. I haven’t seen it either. And I, for a second, when you were talking about it, I was mixing it up with Nosferatu, which is a completely different thing, which 

Todd: is more scary than this movie, honestly, I think, well, he’s just 

Craig: more monstrous. Yeah. Like, yeah.

He’s clearly a monster. I mean, this Christopher Lee, you know, not my type, but I mean, he’s striking, like he is a very, he’s very tall, super tall. He a very striking face. He has a very commanding presence. And so I’m not surprised that he plays. Dracula as often as he did, in addition to all of his other iconic roles of which there are many, um, I understand why he, he has an amazing presence as a man, as an actor, um, Peter Cushing to, you know, uh, an excellent presence, but he, these two guys, they, they, they make excellent foils for each other.

I think Peter Cushing is, is more every man, um, And, uh, so it, it makes sense for him to be the good guy now, something that I didn’t, I don’t remember. I don’t remember the novel well enough, but Jonathan Harker is, is a major. Character in the book. If I remember correctly and he gets off to right away in 

Todd: this, he’s also comes.

I mean, there’s kind of a bit of a twist, kind of a reveal. He comes to the castle Dracula as Dracula’s like a, he he’s hired him to come and catalog all his books in his library. Is there anything else you require Mr. DACA? No, I didn’t think so. You have benefited kind on the concentrated. It doesn’t tie my proven.

I consider myself fortunate to, uh, find such a distinguished scholar to act as my librarian. I like quiet and seclusion this house, I think offers that the may best satisfied and admirable. 

Craig: Yeah, but it’s a ruse, right? Isn’t there a van Helsing has sent him. They’re like they, they know do Dracula is. Yeah.

But then, uh, there, there’s only one bride she’s not even referred to in the credits as bride. She’s just a vampire woman, but. In the original story and in most iterations, uh, Dracula has three brides, but there’s only one here. And you know, she’s a beautiful woman too. Um, and she’s right in the very beginning, but she takes out Jonathan right away and turns him into a vampire.

And then van Helsing has to come and kill him. And then the. 

Todd: Yeah, I, yeah, I really liked this about the movie though. I thought that more like this was kind of a cool fake-out again, I was trying to look at it with fresh eyes. And so I was trying to put everything I know about Dracula side and watch it.

And I liked the idea that we know that he’s in peril and we know this women at women. And, but he seems kind of drawn to her and he’s very kind and everything to Dracula. It’s the same deal he shows up. Right. And Dracula says, I’m sorry, I can’t, you know, he’s just, there’s a note. I’m sorry. I can’t be with you.

Enjoy this food, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The woman comes up to him. I’m the new librarian you will

see. You will please. How can I help you get me away from here? Why he’s keeping me prisoner, who is Dracula? I’m afraid. I don’t understand. Please, please help me to escape. And she has to run away because Dracula Mino makes his appearance. And though, I’m sorry, you know, blah, blah, blah, let me take you to your room.

And then he locks him in the. Which is kind of terrifying. And then he sits down to unpack his things and he writes, starts writing in his diary. So we get a voiceover and I mean, you’re thinking this whole time, well, he’s the victim, right? He’s going to be a victim here, all these things, he doesn’t understand what’s going on.

And then in his diary, he writes, he accepts me as a man who was agreed to work among his books. As I intended.

It only remains for me now to await the daylight hours

with God’s help. I will forever. And this man’s rain of.

And you realize, oh, he knows exactly what he’s jumping into. He’s not an idiot. He’s here to actually take care of business. And I thought that was a nice twist. I don’t remember that for many of the other movies taking that tact. And I don’t think the novel has him coming in. No. 

Craig: No, I don’t think so either.

I don’t think so. I don’t remember what his errand is there, but I think that he slowly figures out what’s going on. He doesn’t already know going in. And I was just, I was surprised because. Familiar with the story. I expected him to be the protagonist. And so I was so, you know, here I am, every time, every time I do this, I, I, I’m sitting in front of two computers.

I’ve got the one that I’m watching the movie on. I’ve got one on the other side of me with, you know, I am DB open. I’m looking at the cast and I see the. The guy who plays Jonathan, John van Eisen is billed below like six or seven other people. I’m like, well, that’s weird. And like I thought, I, I get why Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee get top billing.

That, that makes sense to me. But I thought it was weird that he was listed so low. And then. He gets killed off right away. 

Todd: So,

Craig: but yeah, I mean, I, if, if I remember correctly in the, in the source material, it’s he has a romantic relationship with one of those women. I think that he is, uh, engaged to MENA. Like, I don’t know. 

Todd: I honestly, yeah, you’re right. It’s something like. High school was a really 

Craig: long time ago. I really, yeah, I really don’t remember, but I don’t remember this, a character of Arthur Homewood at all.

I liked that he was played by Michael go, I think G O U G H for me, kind of the definitive Alfred from, uh, Timmermans Batman movies. Um, and, uh, you know, Cool to see him. Usually he doesn’t really have a whole lot to do. I mean, that’s kind of the thing. There’s not a whole lot of plotting, you know, the, you know, Dracula kills Jonathan, but Jonathan had already killed his bride.

So, so Dracula comes after, um, Jonathan had a photograph of Mina, I think it was Mina. 

Todd: Or was it Lucy? Lucy who he was engaged to? Yes. Okay. He had a 

Craig: photograph of Lucy who he was engaged to in Dracula, had taken interest in it right away. And when van Helsing comes to look for Jonathan and finds him dead well, a vampire and has to stake him, he also notices that that photograph of Lucy has gone.

And then. Dracula comes for Lucy, I guess, because he was, she was connected to Jonathan and Jonathan stole his bride. So now he’s gonna claim Lucy, um, as, as his new bride, which he does, but then she turns into a vampire, starts prowling around and she lures. Her niece or I 

Todd: don’t know, a little girl that lives in their house.

Yeah. It’s the daughter of the, of Gerta the, the main house. Okay. So 

Craig: she lures her, her out and then, um, I still don’t get it. R Arthur and me, they all have the same last name. There’s Arthur Mina home. 

Todd: Arthur and Mina are, are, are married. And, um, Lucy has Arthur sister. Okay. All right. 

Craig: So he finds Lucy messing with this little girl, I mean, before she bites her or anything, and then she gets scared away.

Does, does, uh, And he burns her with a cross, like on her forehead or something. Right. And so she runs off to her tomb and then they have to kill her, you know, like, and that the, the staking of Lucy is, um, I don’t know, iconics, not the right word, but it’s very classic staking her right in the heart and her screaming at being staked.

And there’s some blood, there’s some blood. I liked that part that. With

Todd: well, it’s more like the idea of everything more than the actual presentation of it is more terrifying, right? This poor Arthur, you know, his sister he’s reluctant to stake her. Like even though all the evidence is there, even though he’s seen, she’s come back to life, all this stuff, van Helsing is like, no.

We can use her to, I’m sorry. He’s not reluctant to Staker. He’s reluctant to, to let her live as a creature anymore because van Helsinki’s idea is, look, we can use her to lure Dracula, right. Or 

Craig: sh or she can, she can lead us to him. 

Todd: Hm. And so we can finally take care of this guy and he’s like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I can’t let her live as a creature like this anymore. And so he leaves it to van Helsing to stake her, which you know, is very upsetting to him. But then when Dracula then, okay. Gone. So now, what does he do? He turns to Mina Arthur’s wife and seduces her while they’re still looking for Dracula they’re out and about on their errands.

Um, one of the places they go, um, because, because they kept all this in Germany and I think they, I read, they did it for budgetary reasons. So it wasn’t have to be like, you know, the boat trip and different locations and things like that. They kept it on. So when van Helsing went to castle, Dracula looking for Harker, one of the first things he saw was a horse galloping at full speed out of there with Dracula’s coffin in it.

So drag who was on his way out that then Helsing saw that he left. So van Helsing knows that that coffin, you know, took a trip. And so he talks to, you know, they, they go on their little investigation, like, well, they would have to have crossed the border here, which means that they would have had to pass through this border crossing, which means that there would be a record of that car.

Which we can check and see where it went to. So then they go to this border crossing place and they find that it’s like sort of the little comic relief bit. I think of the movie where there’s this goofy border crossing guy who is being silly and whatnot. And, uh, they bribe him and eventually he tells them that, you know, he went to this in this place while they’re out doing all this investigation is when, um, Dracula’s seducing Mina.

Craig: Yeah. He sends her a. And it’s, it’s a lie. I mean, it’s purportedly from her husband, but it’s not it’s him. Me here. Yeah. To this particular address. And as it turns out, it’s the same address that they get for where Dracula’s coffin 

Todd: sadly too late. Right. It’s it’s, it’s a mortician’s place or whatever, right.

A funeral home and the director of the funeral home, which. Which unfortunately, um, they in-housing and Arthur only visit like a day late a day late basically after Mina was there. This guy is another goofy dude and he tells some joke when they’re walking down the steps, perhaps you better let me lead the way I know these steps, they can be dangerous.

We don’t want to have an action to do it slowly. You know, an old man, he gave me a lens to seize. Did the pocket me fell down the stairs.

And he happens to be the same actor as was in dead of night playing that, that guy who was the hearse driver who says room for one more, sir. Oh, oh, that’s funny. So he plays like a mortician in both of these. It’s kind of cool. That’s right. Oh, 

Craig: that’s funny. Um, I did feel like there were moments and they were few and far between, but there were moments where they were kind of going for comedy.

And again, I think that it’s just a generational divide. Like I was just like, ha ha like not funny. Um, but when, uh, so I don’t know. The next time they see MENA the. Housekeeper comes downstairs and she’s like, oh, she wasn’t in her room. She went out the night before. I assume she came back, but she’s not back.

Well, then she shows up immediately. And of course she’s glowing too, like, right. She looks like she looks like she just got it. Good. But, but she’s so she’s so obviously wearing this high collared, like firma, like, you know, like she’s hiding, he’s hiding. Yeah. She’s hiding it. Yeah. 

Todd: It’s funny. It’s cute. But also you’re right.

Her glow is unmistakable. Again, it’s this dirty kind of adultery thing, like this bored housewife kind of thing, right? Like, like Arthur’s clearly a pretty boring, straightforward guy and they’ve clearly been together a while and she’s just not getting it, but she has this little affair with Dracula and now she just like, had changed woman in more ways than one.

And you see it on her face and that, and the Lucy thing I thought read, I think still read really well today. Really do. It was pretty sexy. It’s true. 

Craig: It’s true. And they are very beautiful women. And so to see them, you know, playing up kind of that sultry nature of it, like, yeah, that’s good. But they figure out right away that she’s a vampire.

One of them tries to give her a cross for protection, but when he hands it to her, drops it in her hand, she screams and faints and they look and it’s, it’s burning. Across into her hand. So they know that she’s a vampire now. And something that I thought was kind of funny was that Arthur, at that point, like, darn it.

I should’ve let you use Lucy. I’m so stupid. And then he’s basically over it, like his sister. And in a matter of a couple of days, both of us, both his sister and his wife have been. Killed by this vampire. And he, he kind of just takes it in stride. 

Todd: Well, he’s no longer reluctant, like there, he’s willing now to use her.

Right. He wasn’t willing to lose use Lucy as bait because the idea was so horrible. The net now that he’s seen has happened again to his wife, then now these willing to you, you know, he’s come to his senses. He’s like, all right. And so, you know, they sit outside and wait, they’re looking for Dracula. They think he’s going to come in through the window or something.

So they’re camping out, outside in the bushes, waiting for him. And somehow Dracula appears in the freaking house. And gets her and all they hear is, you know, they walk inside, there’s a scream. They see that she’s. I attacked again. And they’re like, how in the hell did he get in the house? She’s kind of on death’s door.

And they, they, he says to the housekeeper, please go get some, get some wine. She, we need some wine, blah, blah, blah. They do a blood transfusions. That’s right. 

Craig: Fusion. I love it. By the way, with no explanation, like you just see them doing it like, oh, this is how you fix it. If somebody turns into a 

Todd: vampire, it’s a full on scene.

I mean, it’s kind of unnecessary, right? Like we didn’t need to see so much of it, but it’s the whole thing. Like, they’re both connected by these tubes. Van Helsing goes over. He goes through this whole rigmarole, like actually probably pretty accurate of like, you know, the, the housekeepers got the, the alcohol there and he uses his hand to swab it and like pulls the needle out and pats him down and checks it.

It’s okay. All right. Then he goes over to her. He does the exact same thing to her. It’s like a five or six minute long scene. That is nothing more. It, it doesn’t really advance the plot. It’s nothing more than just showing that they did a blood transfusion and he was medically accurate right. Through all of it.

He knows what he’s doing 

Craig: and you never see her again. Like I assume she’s just okay. Because right. The van Helsing is like, okay, The guy you need to drink a lot of fluids, water or coffee, or, oh, better yet wine drink a lot of wine. And so somebody tells the housekeeper to go down in the basement and she’s like, oh no, I’m not going down there.

The last time I disobeyed the mistress’s orders or you’re something like 

Todd: it was earlier. Like she was the one, um, van Helsing when he investigated Lucy. Um, you know, he saw the marks on her neck and he told Mina, he S he said, look, you just need to follow my instructions. If you want her to live, you gotta put this garlic flowers around there.

You got to keep the windows closed, all that stuff. And so then she communicates that to the maid, of course, but Lucy, of course, when she wakes up in the middle of the night is disturbed by all the garlic and. The maiden there and the maids, like, okay, fine. I’ll take away the flowers. Oh, can you open the window?

I’m not supposed to, you know, open the window. Oh. But, but it’s stifling. Oh, okay. I’ll open the window for you. So she’s feeling guilty that she basically caused the Lucy’s demise by disobeying Mina’s orders. So this time around, she’s not going to do it. Mina told her not to go into the seller under any circumstances, so she’s not going to do it.

And van Helsing, like. Yeah. So he immediately runs to the seller and of course there’s a coffin down there. So Dracula’s coffin has been in the house the entire time. Yeah. And admitted. He finds the empty coffin. He looks up the door, opens the Dracula, just pops in and snarls, like he’s trying to turned to his coffin cause he’s gotta be in his coffin with the earth.

Right. Bye. Bye. But a van Helsing is down there and that’s what leads into our big chase. Our big chase sequence. Actually, I really liked that bit too. I thought it was like this sudden revelation and suddenly things got exciting again. And you know, it’s like this whole deal. And so he’s chasing him around the, the place and up across the back to his castle.

Craig: Cause he takes Dracula, takes Meena. In a horse-drawn carriage, I guess all, all of the horse drawn carriages in this movie are like authentic to. You know, time period. Some guy had like a whole collection of them and they use them, whatever that looks cool, but he takes Dracula, takes Mina and is headed back to his place.

And so the men are in pursuit and then there’s a gag where Dracula like runs. Horse cart through like a roadblock and the guy at the roadblock is like, darn you. And then he’s just fixed it. When the other two guys come through and run through it and bust it all up again, too. Like. It’s just so weird to just throw in this a little bit of slapstick comedy here and there.

Uh, and, and, and especially here, I mean, this is the climax of, uh, the movie and it, it really just, I don’t know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t take long. So. Slows things down, but it’s kind of a break in the dramatic tension. Um, and I don’t even really know what Dracula’s end game is here because he gets back to his house and he throws Mina in a grave.

Like just her she’s conscious. He just throws her whole body into a grave and starts 

Todd: to barrier. He’s trying to hide her from them, I think. But, but she’s, he’s essentially burying her alive. Isn’t he? Yeah. 

Craig: I, I maybe that’s the thing they do. I don’t know. But van Helsing chases him inside. And they fight and there’s a little bit of a fight.

It doesn’t go on for very long at 

Todd: all. I mean, what could he do really? 

Craig: Yeah, I get, and there’s no talk, there’s no dialogue. There’s like no witty villain banter or anything like that. Van Helsing pulls down the curtains and the sun has come up. So the sun streams in, and then arguably, this was my favorite part of the movie because, um, there’s some really cool effects where starting with his hands, which are the first thing that gets touched by the sunlight.

He just starts to disseminate. Like, uh, almost like dry out and, and his, his flesh becomes papery and, and kind of dusty, dusty and kind of peels and flakes away. Um, and then eventually it, the sun falls on his entire body and all of that happens. And I read about. How they did some of it, they put like, um, coroner’s wax or something on Christopher Lee’s face and kind of peeled it away.

I don’t remember it. It sounded very technical and cool. And it looks, I mean, it looks old. It, you know, it, it doesn’t look real. It looks like old effects, but they’re practical. And, uh, it definitely gets the point across. And I liked the look of it. But then if I remember correctly, like my, my notes just end in fact, it looks like I started to type something and just stopped.

I don’t even know. Like, that’s it right? Like it’s just over. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. It just it’s like a, the, the, the final scene is like the it’s, like his hand is the last little bit remaining and it’s just kind of dust and blows away and just leaves the ring that was on his finger right there. Uh, this was the scene when I was a kid that struck with me.

I can see why it’s definitely the most exciting scene in the movie. Right. It’s definitely the most effect. Yeah. I mean, it’s a cool little sequence. It doesn’t, it’s not going to blow anybody away by modern standards, you know, but, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s gory for its time. Not does not bloody, but it’s, you know, It’s grown sick graphic.

Yeah, exactly. I, I, you know, I, I thought that was fitting in kind of cool. Like it could have just, you know, the light comes on him and he, he just completely disintegrated, but it’s like, no, like his hand is in there and then like, he’s trying to come out and fight with one hand and, you know, then he kind of gets pushed back into it.

It’s cool. It’s a neat sequence. 

Craig: Yeah. Black ULA ends in much the same way. I mean, it’s, it’s about 20 years later. And so the effect. About 20 years better. It’s pretty much the same ending. They get him in the light and he disintegrates and the end. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I understand that it is, you know, considered.

Classic as much as any hammer films are. And I don’t mean that with any disrespect, I feel like the hammer films, their purpose was, um, to entertain, you know, these are not necessarily high art. These are, um, matinee flicks, uh, Targeted at a specific audience. And, um, I think that probably at the time, I can understand why it was very successful, probably, especially with young people would be my guests.

Um, uh, it just, so for that reason, as I’ve said a bazillion times, I’m, I’m, I’m happy to have seen it. You know, it’s in my lexicon. Now I can talk about it. Uh, it didn’t, I mean, it didn’t do anything for me. I was, I was glad when it was over. 

Todd: I mean, I think this is something that like a family with mixed ages probably all kind of enjoy for different reasons personally, but I don’t think you’re right.

I don’t think by modern standards, it’s going to blow away anybody, but it’s sort of like if you examine. In the time that it was done. You’re right. You can see how it was a bit groundbreaking. Even the castle Parker in the beginning opens the door as castle and walks in. And it’s kind of been modernized.

I mean, it’s still a castle, but the walls are not like. Dusty with tapestries everywhere. You know, like the universal Dracula’s like a cobweb, you know, it gives his castles like an old cobwebby, you know, brick kind of cold looking place. Like this looks like HUD. Once he walks in there, it’s almost like a modern mansion that like a repurposed castle.

I thought that was kind of cool. Like it actually had these sort of sixties type vibes to it, you know? Modernized it a little bit, the blood and the gore, which you didn’t see in the previous adaptations that modernize it a little bit. You know, Christopher Lee jumps out one of his first appearances as Dracula is a close-up on his face.

He’s got these huge 

Craig: fangs and that is iconic. I have seen that image. Everywhere. You know, I I’ve seen that image on t-shirts and you know, he’s got the fangs, which I guess was fairly new to vampire films. Like they hadn’t had the eye there. I read trivia that said some people claim that this is the first film that used the elongated films.

When actually that’s not really true, but it was one of the first ones. And he does, he has these a long game. Uh, canines or whatever they are and you know, the blood on his lips and on his teeth. And of course it’s that technical or bright red blood. And, um, he’s wearing, um, contacts that make his eyes look.

Other worldly, that image is, is fantastic. 

Todd: It is. And I think that’s another thing. Modern vampire movies. That’s the thing that freaks me out the most, the eyes, you know, modern vampire movies, always playing around with the eyes a little bit that they’ll give them hugely dilated pupils or like in the lost boys, they have those sort of like silvery gray eyes with the big pupils or what.

That that’s what really starts to get creepy more than the fangs, I think. And I think this was the first movie to say, to do that. And he, his eyes, they just look yellow and bloodshot and crazy. It was more overt for the time on the sexual stuff, you know, in the same regard with the gore, there’s more blood.

But not nearly as much blood as you get an a vampire movie today, certainly tame, but also, I just I’ve seen a lot of, of the subsequent films and, uh, I don’t remember any of them cause they all run together. But like I said, there were like seven of them. We watched, I think it was their last Dracula movie, right?

The 

Craig: seven. Oh, yeah, we did watch that one. What was it? 

Todd: The samurais samurai that Dracula and the seven golden vampires, the seven golden vampires and something like that, which was their mashup with the Chinese one. That was interesting. I mean, Christopher Lee isn’t even in it anymore because he was done, but Peter Cushing is in it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were seven other movies, I think, uh, the Dracula movies, but this, this duo of Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee, it extended through most of the Dracula movies, but also into a lot of other movies. There were 24 movies that these two were starred together in like, I love these two guys and for what it’s worth, I think that Christopher Lee in this.

I I’m not going to say he was the best Dracula ever. He’s the Dracula that just based on my circumstance and my childhood is most burned in my memory and made the deepest impression just because he was probably the most prevalent, the one I could see the most, but also he is pretty good. He’s super. And he has this strength in the movie.

He’s just lifting these people up. Like they’re nothing, he comes out and he is very menacing in that, in those fangs and those eyes and all that stuff. And he’s got that deep resonant voice. And I think the first thing that I noticed as an adult, as I’m analyzing this is that he’s very detached. Like, you know, like disinterested, right.

He’s not witty and clever and things. He’s just very business-like and almost not even there. Yeah. And I think. Uh, conscious choice. 

Craig: Yeah. And I don’t remember the novel. I, I, I remember the, the Gary Oldman movie and in that Dracula was very much a character. Like he definitely had personality and motivation and yes, he was.

Seductive. And this may just have been the adaptation. I don’t remember how much of it is faithful to the book, but like he seemed to long. For these women, it was more than just blood lust. It was, uh, there was something more to it and, and, you know, he, he had dialogue and, and interaction with, um, the characters, which is lacking here.

Todd: I mean, it’s even in the play, Dracula, barely 

Craig: talks at all. And the only stuff that he does is like business, like, oh, like, uh, here’s your bedroom. Uh, help yourself to some food. Like it’s not, it’s not anything substantial. Uh, and I, and I miss that. I, I would prefer a more character driven retelling, but it is what it is.

It’s a classic monster movie and that’s fine for what. 

Todd: Well, I think this was a very clear choice that he made and he spoke about it. He, he was like, this is a guy whose humanity is long gone. He’s just going through the motions of life right now. And that’s his tragedy. And so he chose to play Dracula that way.

And for what it’s worth, I think the Dracula of the hammer horror films was just a monster, you know, like that fair enough. So, you know, it’s, it’s a different take on Dracula, but as. It’s I think it’s effective, but you’re right. I I’m totally with you. It’s not as interesting, especially now when we expect a little more depth out of our villains right.

In, in all genres. So, um, we, we want to be able to relate to them more. We want to see them as tragic figures and in this, it’s very hard to see him in any other way. Right. Right. And then just a guy who’s going around biting people. Hmm. All right. Well, thank you again for listening to our show. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend.

You can find us online. Two guys got red, 40 net.com, Chu guys, and a chainsaw podcast on your favorite search engine. And you’ll find our Twitter feed or Facebook page. Leave us a message on any one of these social media platforms. Or directly on our website. Also, if you enjoyed this episode, we would love your support.

Check out our Patrion. You can find us at patrion.com/chainsaw podcasts, or go to our website and click the links there. You throw a few bucks our way. We have some nice added bonuses for you. We got some exclusive content, some extra interviews, um, unedited versions of, of what you just heard. And a few other little surprises here and there.

So until next time. And I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We really love our tribute episodes. Not only do they allow us the chance to reflect on an actor or filmmaker’s life and work, but also because they often send us to some more obscure stuff that we might never have chosen on our own.

This week’s tribute to Ivan Reitman is a pure grindhouse-style horror-comedy, starring none other than Eugene Levy and Andrea Martin. We might have had a little TOO much fun with this one, as it got Todd into some real-life trouble of his own. Apparently recording our podcast is more hazardous than you’d think. Listen in to find out why!

Cannibal Girls (1973)

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig. It seems like we’re going through a whole series of tribute episodes. I know people are dying left and right. What’s going on? I don’t know. It’s a. This week’s tribute episode, a person who has very recently passed away that should be near and dear to many of our hearts, famous director, Ivan Reitman died in his sleep this month in February, Ivan Reitman is probably most famous for directing Ghostbusters, right.

But he’s done a whole lot of stuff before that he has a such an interesting history. He has an interesting family history. And, you know, you would think that, oh, well, Ghostbusters, maybe we would just do that on this podcast. Thankfully, Craig had done a little bit of research and reach out to me before I saw it and said, you know, we could do Ghostbusters.

It’s kind of a horror movie. Yeah. Well, 

Craig: as it is. And not only that, but I can only assume that like me, you know, being a kid of the eighties, I mean, Ghostbusters, I don’t know anybody who doesn’t like Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters is a great. Movie and yeah, it’s, it’s a comedy, I think first and foremost, but it’s a horror comedy and, and it’s, it’s a good movie.

So, so much talent, such, such great actors. And, um, it was just a huge, huge success. And of course that was the first thing that popped into my mind. That’s what I texted you. I’m like, well, Ghostbusters obviously.

Todd: However, it turns out that back in 1973, Ivan Reitman directed a little known film called cannibal girls, 

Craig: terrible.

Todd: Oh, how perfect is this? This just hits me in all the feels. I was so happy to hear this. I’m so glad you found this. When you go online and you read about Cannibal Girls, uh, in IMDB. And if you pretty much stop there, you’re not actually going to get a ton of information about it. You’re going to know that Ivan Reitman directed it.

It stars. Oh God, it’s it stars Eugene Levy and Andrea Martin. And in one of their first screen roles, uh, very young, very hairy Eugene Levy,

Just in case you’re racking, your brain as to who Eugene Levy is. Think about the American Pie movies. He’s the dad.

Craig: Oh, and Schitt’s Creek. I don’t know if you’ve watched Schitt’s Creek, but, uh, he, uh, he and his son Daniel wrote it and it starred in it. Oh God, it took me a minute to get into it. But then once I did, it’s just one of the most clever, funny heartwarming things and, and just swept awards shows, uh, over the past several years.

Um, and, and rightfully so genius. And, and he, yes, uh, all of the, uh, Christopher Guest movies, um, that he did in the Christopher Guest movies, he was often paired with Catherine O’Hara, uh, the mom from home alone and she played. Just brilliantly played his eccentric wife on Schitt’s Creek. You got to watch it, bro.

Todd: you’re not the first person who’s told me. I’m going to have to check it out. Yeah. It’s just so cool. Like Eugene Levy, just he’s one of those actors, that’s just a character in himself, right? Yeah. Like he just has a look. He has a way of speaking it’s unmistakable and he gets cast in these roles that are just perfect for him.

But he has his roots in like SCTV, second city, all that stuff. Like he and his co-star in this film. Andrea Martin, both. Yeah. And both of them really owe a lot of this to Ivan Reitman. And everybody’s from Canada. Right? And like SCTV, this, this movie, Cannibal Girls was a Canadian production. And as I was watching this.

Loving it to death because I love these kinds of movies. It’s a total Grindhouse movie. It’s like the epitome of a cheaply shot, exploitation, horror flake that is destined for the drive-in, but it’s got a cool flare to it that I’m sure we’ll talk about. When I was looking up Ivan Reitman and the genesis of this movie, I was got back into his college years and then back into his kid years.

And I was shocked to find out that he is a first-generation. Um, Canadian American, he, his parents were Hungarian Jews who survived the Holocaust. His mother survived Auswitch. They fled communist Czechoslovakia by hiding under the floorboards of a tugboat for five days. Wow. He was born in Czechoslovakia, made it to Canada, grew up in Canada where his father, uh, who had owned a vinegar factory in Czechoslovakia before they had to leave, bought a dry cleaning business and a carwash, and just started living the Canadian dream.

And, uh, he ended up going to McMaster university in Ontario, studying. He just seems like the kind of guy would have been friends with cause he was involved in all the things that I would have been involved in. I was involved in, in college, he directed some student plays and then this being the mid to late sixties, it’s a hippy time.

It’s very, there’s a strong counterculture thing happening in the U S and in Canada. And, um, there’s a lot of interesting stuff happening on college campuses. A lot of experimentation, drugs, sex, you know, kind of free love kind of time. He got very involved with the film scene here on the campus and McMahon.

And there was this guy named John , who had just a couple years before him had started the film club up at McMasters and created something. They called the McMaster’s film board or whatever. And, uh, I’ve been right, but got involved in that and, uh, started becoming a part of the film. This John Hoff says, had these grand ideas about film and its ability to kind of help with sexual liberation and all this stuff.

And he started producing these extremely, already very experimental sort of soft. You could say, like soft-core pornographic student films, but also he was doing already things like with dual projection and, and different soundtracks and people reading stuff while the film was going and trying to kind of had these very esoteric ideas about breaking down people’s inhibitions by showing them a sex, frankly, and from a distance and all kinds of.

Anyway, Ivan Reitman being a part of this scene ended up being a co-producer on this guy’s movie, the Columbus of sex in 1968, which was a student film. It required two projectors and they showed it on campus. And in the middle, about 20 minutes into the showing, a bunch of cops came in for the vice squad and shut it all down and arrested them, all arrested him.

And, uh, John, this John Hobson and another person who was producing this film, they were charged and convicted of obscenity. And he ended up, he ended up having to pay Ivan Reitman ended up having to pay 300 Canadian dollars, which I think was like the equivalent of 20 American bucks got us, you know, suspended sentence or whatever like that, uh, probation for a year.

It’s just so cool because he, I don’t know. I just feel like he. You know, I was experimenting with movies and stuff in college too. And I was involved in theater and film and music and all that. And so I just thought, yeah, like these, this is one of these guys, you know, that kind of came from that and, uh, just grew something.

Yeah. After that they ended up selling that movie. They sold that movie to a, uh, an exhibitor in the United States and then they cut it up and they shot some extra footage and they released it. And so then he went on to move into another movie called my Foxy lady, which was another sort of sex comedy, which didn’t do too well, but it got distributed and it also was Eugene Levy and, um, Andrea Martins first screen role.

Oh, wait before that, before this Foxy lady yet, they were both in, I didn’t, by the way, by the way, Eugene Levy fun fact, he was a, he was a cinematographer on that student film that everybody got arrested for crazy. Right. So anyway, uh, they did all this and they did this, uh, Foxy lady, which he was his first directorial debut, starring Eugene Levy and Andrea Martin didn’t do too great, but was distributed ended up, uh, deciding, well, we need to go for the lucrative horror market.

It was a total of 12 people just went in on it. Uh, and they decided they were going to get equal shares and whatever they could produce out of it. And then they convinced. Pathway productions, which had an editing equipment and editing studio there to forego all of the fees for using their equipment until after the film has picked up and they get money for it, then they were going to pay these guys.

Their original budget, I think was like nine 30, 9,000 or something like that. They ended up spending $12,000 putting this movie together. They cut it together. And, uh, after they were finished, cutting it together, they ended up with something that was 60 minutes long and they all decided wasn’t very good.

So Ivan Reitman, he goes to his dad and borrows money. They shoot extra scenes in Ontario and Toronto, some other places. And try to flesh this out to something that makes a little more sense and is about an hour and a half long now it’s I think it’s an hour 24 minutes. Yeah. And, uh, there you go. Uh, it premiered at the, uh, horror festival in Spain.

And it was a down to the wire kind of thing. It almost didn’t even premiere because they were in dispute with pathway over their money. Pathway was whole threatening to hold onto the negatives unless they signed over all the rights to them because they were tired of waiting. And his co-producer on this just basically gave an ultimatum and said, if you do that, I’m just going to drive the negatives off a cliff.

I’ve spent two years on this movie. I don’t give a care anymore. And, uh, they were shocked by that and they ended up releasing the negatives to them and they managed to get a finished print of this film in their hands, in the Spain, 30 minutes before this produced the performance appeared on screen. Yeah, it premiered at for like 15.

But it just so happened that one of the 15 people in the audience was a scout for American international pictures, which was Roger Corman and Samuel cops, big B movie distribution machine in the United States. Uh, this guy said, you’ve got to show this to Sam Arkoff and they were like, holy crap, Sam Markoff, he’s like a God.

They ended up going to, uh, his like, like some crazy hotel. They had a second screening of this film for him. He and, um, James James Nicholson ran American international pictures and it was the great B picture releasing organization of a, of an entire generation. And it’s this extraordinary hotel on the tip of the Mediterranean is probably one of the most expensive hotels in the world.

They lead me to the biggest suite at the hotel because he was the number one guy and the sweetest full of people milling about it’s busy and there Sam. Okay, Kate, come with me and throw the bed into the bedroom. And he’s got this fresh orange juice glass with a hotel, du cap napkin underneath it. And he moves the orange juice.

He takes up this big fad ball, ballpoint pan, and he writes $50,000 and he gives it to me like this. And, um, and I said, would you mind signing it? And then after we recoup our costs, you can have 20% of the groceries. And that is how this film got us distribution in mostly drive in. It was released as a drive and double feature with a movie called raw meat, which started Donald Pleasance and Christopher Lee.

Roger Corman was a little, you know, he’s got his requirements and you gotta have a lot of nudity. You got to have a lot of gore. This movie’s got nudity, but it doesn’t have too much gore. And that was a bit of a problem. So he came up with this gimmick that he stole, I think from an earlier William castle type production, where in the trailers for this film and in.

Screening of this movie, there would be a bell that would ring before some scene that would be shocking so that you knew to close your eyes. And then you could open your eyes again after the doorbell sound, which lets you know, that it’s safe to watch again during the showing of 

Craig: cannibal girls in consideration 

Todd: of those of you with delicate sensibilities, a special warning bell has been installed.

It will 

Craig: signal you when to close your eyes to avoid certain scenes of a shocking nature.

Todd: Apparently that was successful. If you get the DVD version of it, I know there’s an option to turn that on. Isn’t that crazy? I 

Craig: know. I, I really kind of wished that we had been able to see that. I just wanted to know. I just wanted to know what it was like. I thought it was actually really kind of clever and gimmicky and um, I know that, uh, corpsman and probably.

Others like him were experimenting with those types of gimmicky type things. Um, in the theater, you know, like smell of vision and, you know, all of these, uh, gimmicky type things. I kind of, it would have been funny to be able to see that, but 

Todd: whatever, why don’t we do that anymore? We should do shit like that now.

Right. We kind of get mixer fun. So they shot this movie. Uh, it was, uh, nine, 16 hour days in a row. And when you watch the credits for this film, I mean, actually to their credit. It, it mentions it’s a story by such and such person, uh, a writer written by Robert Sandler. But then, but yeah, yeah, it says the dialogue was developed by the cast, basically.

So apparently they basically just had a rough outline. It was like a 13, 14 page outline of the movie and with the main beats and stuff. But then all of the dialogue in this was improvised by the cast. Yeah. 

Craig: I would imagine that most of that was the Eugene Levy and Andrea Martin stuff. Cause they’re the ones who have the most dialogue, the, the everybody else.

There’s not really a whole lot of talking, you know, they’re, they’re just things happening, but it’s interesting, you know, sadly, uh, I only worked on one student short film when I was in college and it wasn’t with you. It was with another. Filmmaker. And I had such a, a wonderful time doing it. Like it was just so much fun, but, uh, you know, when you’re doing that, when you’re doing those types of small, cheap productions, everybody just does whatever needs to be done.

And so, uh, as I was looking, you know, over this cast list and looking at the people, because aside from Eugene Levy and Andrea Martin, Andrea Martin, by the way, went on to have a very, also have a very, uh, successful and prolific career. 

Todd: Yeah. She’s still going to EO. 

Yes. 

Craig: Um, she was in the original Black Christmas.

She was in the first Black Christmas remake. She was in My Big Fat Greek Wedding movies and TV show. I think like she’s very recognizable. Uh, just a whole Arius lady. Both of these stars are just genius. Yeah, funny people. Um, and, and you get a little bit, you know, this, this movie’s kind of tongue in cheek, it’s billed as a horror comedy.

It’s light on the comedy air. At least it’s not like it’s not, you know, slap your knee. Ha ha ha comedy. It’s it’s more just like this is silly and 

Todd: yeah, almost, almost a surreal sort of odd comedy in a way to write letters, some weird stuff in here. Well, 

Craig: but I just, uh, the three, the cannibal. I just love that they were all, uh, it, it says in the opening credits and introducing, and it lists their names as the cannibal girls.

So these are, you know, nobody actresses. And, uh, I noticed that, uh, Randall carpenter who plays Anthea, who’s the blond, there’s a blonde, a brunette and a redhead. It’s perfect. It’s so clever. But the one who plays, uh, the blonde, she was also the costume supervisor. Like I can just only imagine that this was, you know, a labor.

Love or they just had to do things because there was nobody else to do it. And you and I have both been in that situation where you just wear whatever hat you have to wear, 

Todd: because somebody has to. Right.

And how cool, well, if, if we could have just like approached some distributor with, with the shit that we made and, uh, yeah. Yeah. There’s a bunch of people out there who watch this shit, you know, while they’re making out in the back of a car and he made money. But 

Craig: anyway, let’s get back to Cannibal Girls

Todd: Cannibal Girls, Cannibal girls.

Oh my gosh. Oh, I, I, 

Craig: I know you do. And so I was kind of, you know, when I. Realized what it was. I didn’t look too much into it. I saw the title. I saw that it was 1973 and I was like, do I mention it to Todd?

Craig: Do I just say, let’s do Ghostbusters? Cause I knew if I mentioned this, that you would want to do it.

But frankly, I, I was intrigued 

Todd: Honestly, we don’t do enough of these kinds of movies here. Uh we’ve we haven’t really, I mean, we, we do a variety of films. There’s only so many movies you can do, you know, once a week, but as far as like a Grindhouse type drive and pick like. Debris in the last six years.

Craig: Yeah, not many at all. And, and that’s, that’s probably mostly my fault, I guess. 

Todd: Um, well, there’s too much to choose from. 

Craig: Well, there are, but I just, this isn’t what I’m typically drawn to, but I saw this and I saw who was in it and I, I, you know, I knew this wasn’t necessarily going to be the type of Eugene Levy stuff that.

And familiar with, I knew it was going to be something different, but I was, uh, interested in seeing where he and Andrea Martin kind of began. And frankly, I expected it to be bad and it is, but it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going be. And, and honestly, like when it was over, I just had like this shit eating grin on my face.

Like I 

Todd: know I expected this to be, so I’ve respected. Let me just put it this way. I expected this to be as bad as the movies I shot when I was in college. And I was really surprised actually at, at, uh, the Bowman’s of cleverness and just the overall effect that it gave and what I got out of it at the end, I thought this movie sort of does deserve to be, uh, to be talked about.

Craig: And I don’t think that many people know about it. I had never heard of. At all. Um, we knew nothing about it. Uh, being a fan of both of these lead actors, I had no idea and I don’t think it’s widely known. I think that it has a small audience who appreciates it, but I don’t think a lot of people have seen it.

And if you haven’t seen it, I say, you should check it out. And honestly, like, usually we’re like, if you haven’t seen it, then turn this off and watch it and come back. No, you can listen. 

Todd: It’s fine. 

Craig: It’s it’s what you think it’s going to be. Better than 

Todd: I’ll expect. It’s it’s so funny you say that because the poster itself, the tagline is these girls do exactly what you think they do.

Cannibal Girls wears its heart on its sleeve. This movie. Well, well, and it’s like 

Craig: what? It comes down to it, it’s kind of like that the farmer’s daughter kind of story, you know, like there, you know, there’s this farmhouse and these beautiful girls live there. Like, you know, that can go in a couple of different directions.

Todd: Right? And then 

Craig: in this case, it kind of teases you and it, it, it does go in that direction because like they lose their men to the farmhouse for. Sex and naked time, but then they have like rituals, blood rituals and they eat them.

Todd: Um, this was a, this was a common issue in the late set in the early seventies in Canada, by the way, which a film, this film was good at bringing that to light and raising awareness.

Oh my gosh. Well, apparently before we talk about the movie, apparently to wrap things up on the history, this movie was one of the very first Canadian productions that really broke through and got major distributions south of the border and kind of paved the way for all of these other Canadian horror movies that we’ve been talking about incessantly on this podcast, uh, prom night and, you know, uh, black Christmas and all of those films.

You could argue, oh, a little bit to this movie. So weirdly enough, many people will say this because this was the first one to kind of say like, Hey, maybe we can make a thing out of this, up here in Canada, where at this time Canada’s film scene was kind of struggling. Like, what do we do? You know, how do we build this up?

Uh, and the Canadian film board even to this day is really good at funding, independent films and promoting Canada as a place to make movies. Well, they were turned down by the Canadian film board, but after the distribution of this film and a couple that kind of came in its wake and inspired by this movie, as well as Ivan Reitman’s subsequently produced movies.

Ivan Reitman went from here to produced a movie called deranged, another horror movie. To a, of David Cronenberg’s first films, uh, shivers and rabbit, which starred Marilyn Chambers. He produced again, Canadian filmmakers shooting in Canada, getting wide distribution in the states. And so it’s sort of in a way, opened up the flood gates, uh, for the ability for people to kind of take notice and, uh, take Canadian film a little bit more seriously.

And now a lot of films actually are at least partially shot in Canada because of the development of the film scene up there. Well, and it’s cheaper too, right? Exactly. Well, that’s the point, right? The government kind of like really encouraged to push it offers a lot of tax breaks and also offers a lot of support government support to Canadian filmmakers as well.

But anyway, cannibal girls, there’s 

Craig: an opening kill scene. And like it’s funny. Cause when it first opens, like it’s this aerial shot of a coast and I. Pushing my volume. Like I can’t hear it. Something’s wrong. The link that Todd sent me is broken, but there’s just no sound for the first couple minutes that it zooms in on these lovers frolicking on the beach.

Of course, it’s Canada. So it’s not like it’s tropical, it’s 

Todd: cold, 

Craig: but they’re just frolicking on the beach. And you know, they fall to the ground and start fooling around, you know, in their snaps. And then you see a killer POV and, uh, somebody, the guy is, they’re not, they’re not having sex. They’re just smooching on the beach, but somebody pulls him off the guy off the top of the girl and kills him with a pickax.

And it’s a woman. I mean, you are at least. You would assume it’s a woman, it low, the person has painted red fingernails and is wearing what looks like a woman sweater. It is a woman it’s not this direction. Um, but they kill, uh, the guy and then they, uh, rip the girl’s shirt open to expose her breasts and rub some blood between her breasts.

And that’s it. And that’s the last you ever see of her, which is a little bit 

Todd: confusing. The last we see of her, I thought it was the blonde. We eventually ended up seeing, uh, maybe I’m wrong. 

Craig: No. Oh, later. Okay. So then, uh, Lou Jean Levy, who plays cliff and Andrea Martin who plays Gloria, they are a young couple, a new couple.

They’ve been together for like a month, but they are just going away for a weekend and they’re just, you know, wherever the wind blows them, you know, they’re just gonna stop at some small town or whatever. There their car dies. And that goes on for 

Todd: far does. No, I don’t. I want to interrupt you here because you missed the credit sequence.

Like under the credit sequences, this odd, this odd montage. It’s cool though, of these girls, it’s like, there’s this farmhouse and there, these girls kind of coming and going, and then there’s this dude. That’s like an Igor type hunchback kind of weird guy. Who’s like digging in the garden. And one of the girls comes out of the house and lays like a bowl of food down for him.

And he just runs up to it like a dog and just starts like eating the food out of it. It’s. 

Craig: Please tell me that you did this research because I didn’t, but I am absolutely fascinated. This Igor character is 

Todd: played by itself. He’s 

Craig: yes, he’s, he’s credited as himself bunker as himself. And I clicked on his IMDV page and he’s been in two movies credited as himself.

I have no idea who 

Todd: is this? I wish I knew. I looked forward to, I couldn’t find anything. It’s 

Craig: like, he’s like a hunchback deranged kind of character, and he’s just built as hymns. That’s a weird God, but you’re right. It is very strange. And we just basically see these three. Beautiful, young women, again, a platinum blonde, uh, you know, a, a cherry red, red head, um, and a 

Todd: brunette, your typical seventies girls, uh, long hair is a way they had a way with makeup and stuff at this era that I kind of like, 

Craig: he did it well.

And the Marcia Brady hair just long and, and, you know, not slicked down, but just like brushed totally straight, you know, whatever. And the three of them are very beautiful. They don’t really have a whole lot of acting to do. They mostly just do a lot of killing and like 

Todd: munching on blood caressing and.

That’s 

Craig: right. And, and all of this, you know, you see this and then there’s like, weird, what, what do you call it? Like the, the face of this weird guy, like super 

Todd: imposed. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like this odd montage, right? Where it’s like his crazy eyes and then the girls one after another and yeah, that was our little RD, right?

Yeah. I like it though. Yeah. 

Craig: And then the two, the couple is stranded. There, there I have in my notes, their car won’t start and then it does, and then it dies. Good. And then it starts gap. Okay. Yeah. She gives it a pep-talk. Oh, no, it 

Todd: was funny. I know it’s been hard on you. It’s very cold outside and I know that you’d rather just be sitting someplace, but if you could help us out just this once, we’d really appreciate it.

Craig: Please 

Todd: go ahead. Talk like that. Don’t be sarcastic. 

Craig: Was it a circuit? What it sarcastic or was, is the sarcastic it’s going to start anyway. We love you. Love you love you.

There’s there’s so much, honestly, as I was watching this, there were so many times when I’m like, this is hilarious. I hope that he cuts this kid because there are so many parts that are just so Arnie and they’re plates. Great. It’s 

Todd: a very understated comedy, right. It’s played super straight and it just makes it so much funnier that way.

And I liked this bit between the two of them in the car, because I mean, it did go on too long for sure, but it kind of set them up just sort of wacky, but cute. Somewhat charming couple. And, and I, you know, initially when you see a couple like this and they’re driving a car and they’re going down the road, I sort of imagined, oh, maybe they’re husband and wife, maybe they’re, you know, long-time boyfriend, girlfriend, but it’s, it’s much, much later in the movie that we find out they’ve only been dating for like a month or two, but they’ve got this, 

Craig: it’s a seventies.

Todd: I don’t care. But they got this chemistry. That’s, that’s really cute. And there’s like, uh, probably because they’re ad-libbing and because the camera just keeps rolling, but there’s sort of a, a realistic kind of relatable quality to it. Like if you had just let a camera go on my family for 10 minutes, you know, it would more or less sort of be like this, mostly boring, but you get some interaction and stuff.

Craig: I didn’t know that they had worked together before a lot of the hit some of the history that you said contradicts what the. I am DB trivia said, because you said that they had done a film before and the IMD trivia says that this is Andrea Martin’s first film. Now, maybe this is the first one that, you know, actually got distributed.

I don’t know. But knowing that they had worked together before now, I can see that these are, these seem to be two people who are familiar with one another and comfortable with one another. And that, that reads on the screen and she’s playing kind of ditzy and flighty, but likable and he is playing kind of cool.

And it seems like he’s mostly into it for the sex, you know, you know, like he, it’s not like he does. Enjoy, you know, like they, they, they seem like a believable. I believe that they’ve been together for a month, you know, like they’re still getting to know each other. They enjoy each other’s company. He gets a little irritated at some of her quirks sometimes, but he hasn’t known her longer.

You know, like they’re not married, so it’s not like he despises her yet. 

Todd: That takes a while. Even you have to be married for awhile

know? Yeah. But it’s cute. I think your point too, is that there’s something kind of charming about these two people in the beginning. And then I think it helps. I mean, it really helps with the movie because most of movies of this caliber don’t really even bother with that. 

Craig: No, you’re right. You’re right.

They are characters that you, not that you’d necessarily care about. I mean, if they get eaten by the cannibal girls, that’s fine. But they, they feel like real people. They don’t just feel like. Lame bad actors in a movie. Um, but anyway, so they, they ended up going to this mechanic shop and they run into, first of all, everybody who works at the mechanic shop is super shady and like the chief of police’s hanging out there.

And he’s also obviously super shady. There’s no sense in trying to hide anything about this movie, as it turns out, everybody in the town is in, I don’t know if there’s 

Todd: some kind of like cult or something. Right. 

Craig: But everybody’s in on it, but there’s another, you know, they’re there and there’s another outsider there who’s asking around and he’s showing this picture and he’s like, have you seen this girl?

She’s my sister. Well, that was the girl on the beach, but we, but we never see her again. No, which doesn’t make sense. Cause it seems. All ultimately, it seems like, and I do feel like I’m giving something away here, but I don’t care. Ultimately it seems like they’re actively recruiting cannibal girls. So why, so why 

Todd: wouldn’t she be one now there are multiple houses with myth, cannibal girls in it or something.

I don’t know. 

Craig: Maybe she resists. I don’t know, but they, they get directed by the shady, a F a mechanic to this motel down the street. I don’t remember. Mrs. Wayne writes the motel or whatever. And this is Mrs. Wainwright is this, you know, frail little old lady with a Walker. And she tells them, she’s like, oh yeah, we don’t get many people around here.

Very, maybe it’s because of the, maybe it’s because of the old

Todd: creepy lady in our town who knows. And then she 

Craig: tells the whole story. See it in flashback and it’s detailed and wonderful, loved 

Todd: this. I love this whole concept that there’s this whole flashback, the detailed where the cannibal girls. Well, just the idea, by the way, Mrs. Ray Wainwright, the actress who plays this may Jarvis has her name.

She is apparently was from a wealthy, very like historically pop your family in Toronto. Like there’s a Jarvis street in Toronto. That’s named after her grandfather. And so she owned the farm house that they ended up shooting most of this movie in. And so they put her in the movie. So that’s how she ended up in here.

That’s hilarious. So she tells this tale, which is loads of fun, and I love the way it’s cut together to, uh, there’s a guy that we later here is named Earl and he’s. Camping, he’s camping without a tent. I don’t know. Maybe he just laid down, sleep, sleep in the woods. Maybe just lay down and put his head on the log.

And this girl comes up to him. That’s the blonde girl and she’s all seductive. It’s like, Hey, why don’t you follow me? And he’s like, Ooh, Hey, cool. You’re a hot chick. Okay. I’ll go after you. So they leave. And then there’s a guy named Felix. Who’s sitting in a quote unquote Tavern, which we know because we see a close-up shot of some neon light that says Tavern.

And then the next shot is this guy sitting at a table in front of a window, which looks suspiciously like just a window you might have in your house. 

Craig: Yeah. And it’s a really tight shot and you don’t see anybody else around him. I mean, it’s low budget. It’s funny. All three of these guys. Earl Felix and Rick, each one of them gets picked up by one of the girls and they all get brought back to the house.

And then it’s like, they’re just there for days. 

Todd: They play monopoly that 

Craig: yes, they play monopoly to hang out. The girls cook for them at some point, like they’re all having dinner together and all the girls are dressed in the same outfit and one of them comments on it. And they’re like, I don’t know, but it’s just like, they’re all just there and lingering, like on the assumed promise that they’re going to get late.

Todd: it’s like, oh, well, you know, like one of them is like an ice cream. Salesmen or something. One of them’s, 

Craig: one of them is a parade organizer. 

Todd: It’s silly. One of them’s just rich. He just says I’m rich, but they’re open. One of them wants to leave really fast. Like, oh, I got to organize a parade soon. And they’re like, yeah.

But yeah, you know, why don’t you just hang out here for a little while longer? Cause you know, we’re all going to get laid. Right. And 

Craig: you’re here two of us. That’s right. Earl. Finally, one for you, one for you. What’s Brian’s we’ve been waiting on waiting for I’ll try you. Can’t leave. Don’t forget the bull 

Todd: for all of us.

I got to be in buttoned field. We can score. I have missed a parade in eight years. Have you ever had this. Throughout this, then each of the girls are interacting with each of the guys it’s like each of the girls are sort of paired up with them. And they’re having these little moments, these little dialogues, where there are these things being dropped.

Like he’ll say, she’ll say something and whatever. Oh, I can’t wait to eat. Oh, food can be appetizing. Well, I’m looking forward to the main course myself, you know, like there are all these God, 

Craig: that was such a funny line to me. You know, food can be a wonderful appetizer.

It’s just so funny. And like, not even like, again, they’re playing it totally straight, but it’s just so stupid that it’s hilarious and not even stupid in a bad way, like in a funny way, like these guys are just they’re following their dicks. Like it’s so it just doesn’t make any sense that these. Three hot girls who happened to live in this farmhouse just happened to find these random three guys and like, oh, yo, I’m sure we’re, you know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna hook up.

Okay, Felix. 

Todd: Okay. Okay. Harry, Felix, Felix, who’s like a gorilla by the way. Just like the seventies. There’s tons of hair in this movie. Oh yeah. 

Craig: I don’t remember which guy. There’s one guy in his tidy whities. Who’s like a eight, but you know, and that was the thing back in those days. Um, you know, eventually Clarissa who I think is the red head takes the rich girl.

I don’t know who he is upstairs and.

The day, but then she, she stabs him with some scissors and then the weird Igor guy chops him up in the basement. And then Leona who’s, the brunette actually does sleep with Felix. At least Felix got laid. Um, and he’s the super hairy one. And like, she menaces him with a knife, which backs him into Anthea.

Who’s the blonde. And she kills him with an ax. And then I’m, I’m straight up reading from my notes then and Thea throb or no, Rick, and then. He wakes up handcuffed to the bed and like, he’s kind of panicked for a second, but, but then he’s not, like I said, all three girls come in at a, like, they 

Todd: have like one, 

Craig: this seems like the beginning 

Todd: of something it’s so funny because the come in and, and he, he looks a little concerned at first and then they come in and one of them has a silver tray with a silver sort of a bowl on it.

And there’s a red liquid in the bowl and they, like, they pour a little bit of this red liquid on his chest and they gather around him and they start like licking this off his chest. And it’s so funny because actually he’s not even like really in the foreground, it’s all about the girls and what they’re doing, but you can just sort of see out of focus in the background.

Like he’s like smiling and like kind of thing. And then he just. And one of the girls, you know, we get a closeup on her as she like lifts up and her mouth is just full of blood and she’s she’s munching and she’s 

Craig: chewing. Yeah. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s cool though. I like this stuff. It was, I left 

Craig: it. I thought it was great.

Todd: I thought it was. And then you’re reminded that this is a, uh, this is a flashback because suddenly we get back to them motel 

Craig: and Mrs. Mrs. Wainwright. And that’s the story of the three cannibal

Todd: and they’re, and they’re like, and they’re like, what happened for them? Oh, well right now that house is it, you know, that was a long time as a restaurant. It’s a very popular restaurant. You should go. It’s really exciting. I’ll take you there. 

Craig: And they’re like, there aren’t any Campbell girls there, right? Oh no, no cannibal girls there anymore.

Todd: It’s wonderful. Wonderful. And then one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie, Gloria. And cliff ended up back in the motel and they’re sitting on the bed and, and this, I thought this, honestly, I thought this was comic genius. They’re tasseling. And they’re just having, again, kind of like a real moments, you know, and he’s kind of slowly sort of like playing with her and then like, he’s talking with her and he’s like, spreads her legs a little bit and he’s on top of her and he’s kind of kissing her and smooching her.

And they’re kind of, you can tell like, okay, this is getting to sex. And then she says, you know what? I would love more than anything right now. And he’s like, no, what? And she says, if you would get your guitar and play a song for me. So he’s like, oh, uh, oh, okay. And he goes, and he gets his guitar and he sits down by the way, the whole time that they’re rolling around in the bed, he has had a lit cigarette in his right hand.

It’s yeah, it’s solid time. And, uh, 

Craig: it is funny, but the thing that I loved about this scene and. Yeah. I feel like it’s exemplified in this scene, but it’s probably true of the whole movie that they probably did. Most of this stuff in one shot, like true. This stuff that happens between them is awkward. It doesn’t feel staged really at all.

Like I imagine they had some direction, but it’s not like when he’s trying to spread her legs. Awkward, but it’s how real life is like real life doesn’t just happen smoothly. And balletic only, you know, like feet gets stuck

and he can’t, he can’t figure out what to do with this. Like he’s like the best thing finger and around with his cigarette for the longest time until he fired. His guitar has like strings that at the end, uh, just poking out everywhere. And he eventually just pokes is the butt of his cigarette. And then one of those strings.

So it’s just like, it’s bobbing. And at some point, at some point she’s like playing with it. Like, it’s just so obvious that they’re just, you know, making this up as they go. And it’s charming. Yes. I, I 

Todd: really almost like slice of life material and I, but they’re good enough. I mean, look, this is before these people are like trained in this kind of thing.

I mean, these people are fresh out of college. You know, there was later when they’re going to SCTV and do improv and stuff like that, but at the same time, like. They don’t break character. It’s it’s smart. It’s real. It moves. It feels real, like you said. And I found that really charming. 

Craig: Yeah, me too. Uh, Mrs.

W w we got to get to the Campbell girls, Mrs. Wainwright walks then. To this 

Todd: house, the restaurant, you mean? 

Craig: Yeah, the restaurant, it’s not even like accessible by the road. Like they have to walk up through the snow to get there and then they go up and it’s clearly just a house and they go inside and it’s funny cause they’re like this where there’s this restaurants of weird and he’s like, yeah, it’s frequent.

And they’re there. Of course the only ones there. And they’re greeted by this guy in a tux and the top hat and gloves. Introduces himself as the Reverend, Alex St. John. And he super weird cliff offhandedly says that he seen the Reverend before. Did I miss something? Because yeah, 

Todd: he says he seems familiar, whatever, but I don’t think anything really came of that.

Craig: Well, the, the, the Reverend guy is totally creepy with Gloria. Like he’s groping her ass as he’s running around the house and stuff, and it, and she doesn’t say anything, which, which made me think like, God, this is such a different time. Like, I know that women have to put up with a lot of shit today, still sadly.

But I feel like this was a different time before women even necessarily felt like they could say something like, she just kind of has to like roll, which is disgusting. And he doesn’t even notice the, the 

Todd: actor Ronald Aldrich. When I first saw the credits, I thought Robert Allriches in this. And then I kind of did a double double take that it’s Ronald Aldrich and he hasn’t been in anything else.

Kind of odd, look, he chews up the scenery in this, in this movie, but, um, I watched an interview with Eugene Levy. It was talking about this movie and he mentioned that this guy, he was like a seasoned stage actor. I mean, he’s young, but yeah, like very much he said, this guy would like more than any of the rest of us in that production.

He was the real deal actor in the whole thing. It’s kind of ironic that he didn’t end up going on to do anything else, movie wise anyway. But, uh, I 

Craig: can see that though. He kind of seems like a 

Todd: stage actor. Yeah. It’s sort of like a Willy Wonka ish sort of thing, right. Where he’s got a top hat and he’s loves 

Craig: and he has creepy, but not necessarily like run for this.

Yeah, 

Todd: except it’s super obvious this isn’t a restaurant. It’s just a house. Oh, what else is there? Yeah. 

Craig: Right. Eventually they sit down and he hands them a menu, but there’s only one thing on the menu, but that that’s after he shows them around the house and he tells them all of these whole layer, RIAs stories about these artifacts and, and like portraits of people in the house.

It’s like, he works at Disney’s haunted mansion. Right. Everything is some story about how, oh, here’s great. Aunt Matilda. She killed 47 people in 1932. Yeah. 

Todd: This is my grandfather’s piano. He was a man of rare taste and Gusto, a musical genius sometimes still, you know, in the dead of evening, religious hymns seem to fill this room.

That’s amazing. Right. You know, just the other day I thought I saw my distant cousin Rex. It’s rumor that he liked, man, sometimes exceedingly well, he did produce some very fine children, to be honest, none of them resemble him in the slightest. I could’ve 

Craig: listened to him for another five minutes, but it goes on 

Todd: for a long 

Craig: time.

It ends up with this weird like thing over the mantle, which doesn’t even look particularly ominous. It’s just. Boards and snowshoes or something he’s like, but this was a shrine that was put together by those cannibal girls. I suppose I should take it down, but I can’t bring myself to do it because it carries a terrible curse.

And I’m 

Todd: very superstitious. I mean, yeah, in a way it reminded me a little bit of the muda later. Do you remember in the muda later when that guy takes everybody, all of his friends out to his father’s beach house, and while they’re in the living room, it’s like telling us all these bizarre artifacts and things that all have terrible stories by him.

Here’s 

Craig: the spike that my dad killed somebody with. Right? Yeah. It was very much like that. It’s so haunted house, but just so funny, I just, 

Todd: I just loved it. The movie has kind of an art house feel to it because while he’s telling them this thing, it’s all in voiceover while the camera. Very slowly and deliberately panning around the room to all of these things.

Like we’re sitting in the room, just looking at this stuff right. While he’s talking. And that, that was a jarring, but also kind of cool way of, of presenting this. I thought it was creative. I liked that bit. 

Craig: I love that. They, they, they, they sit down to dinner and like I said, there’s only one menu or item on the menu.

The guy’s like, oh, don’t worry. You’ll love it. And they’re like, okay, well, we’ll take two then. Um, and then the girls Leona comes out and serves them wine and he’s like, um, 

Todd: 1913 was a beautiful year. We grow the grapes ourselves own vineyards, the grow on my grandfather’s grave. I don’t know. There’s something about.

Human remains that add a certain earthy quality to 

Craig: wine. And then he chose to grandfather. 

Todd: So funny.

Craig: And the other thing that’s funny is like they are creeped out. Um, it it’s a little bit like, um, uh, Rocky horror. They’re, they’re, they’re in this weird ass place and they’re kind of shooting each other glands.

Todd: Then 

Craig: there’s like some, they hear a scream in there, some commotion and the Reverend runs out and they try to get out of there, but they make the mistake of like fumbling around for money. Like they want to leave money to, to pay. And so they don’t get out of there fast. And, uh, he comes back and he’s like, oh no, no, I’m so sorry about the disturbance.

Dinner will be on me. Um, and they’re like, well, okay, we better go. And he’s like, no, you should really spend the night. And they’re like, oh, that’s all right, we’ll go. And, and he’s like, oh, That’s fine. Um, but there is a maniac loose. And so if you hear anything at all in the forest, while you’re walking home, run as fast as you can, and don’t look behind you by, 

Todd: and they step outside the front door and it’s this great shot where they step out there and suddenly it’s dark and they slow down and they stop and they look around thunder goes the dudes in the backyard.

They look at each other and the. Ah, you know what? Maybe we’ll stay the night.

It’s good. 

Craig: Okay. So then, so, so they do stay the night and like, he wants to get sexy times and she’s not really into it, but she starts to give in until the Reverend like walks in and he’s like, oh, I’m sorry to disturb you. And like, he only showed up to say, if you hear any weird noises night, just ignore it.

Todd: And then he leaves, she goes, all right, that did it. 

Craig: But they, but they stay 

Todd: anyway, you skipped over the parlor scene where he starts quoting Shakespeare and then the three girls get together and sing it. Oh yeah, that was 

Craig: oh, they saying, yeah. 

Todd: Uh, fearless day should look their shames upon. They will filet themselves exiled from LA.

And you must, or I saw it with black 

Craig: brown 

Todd: Knight.

may 

Craig: we? 

Todd: Uh

and then

even like Eugene Levy’s character clips starts to kind of sing with them. It’s so cute. 

Craig: It’s silly, but, okay. So then the, the they’re they’re asleep and the Reverend and all three girls come in while they’re asleep, they handcuff Eugene Levy to the bed, and then she wakes up and the Reverend like hypnotizes her and like hands her, like a huge knife, like she supposed to kill him.

But then he screams, which breaks the trance and she gets up and she runs away and she runs through the woods and. The castle freak attacks are. Um, and she runs away from him. And then now, honestly, this is the part where it’s like, oh, okay. This movie is more than I expected. She wakes up to cliff, waking her up in the motel.

She had fallen asleep and he had left. To, to go get the car fixed. 

Todd: She falls asleep because she runs out to the car. Uh, and, and, and there’s a cop or whatever, somebody it’s, I think it’s a cop car picks her up. And the next thing we know, there’s some guy it’s a doctor who gives her a pill, right? Yes. It’s conspicuously a red pill.

And I thought, because they’re trying to get her to drink this blood or something. Right. It seems like there’s a whole blood thing going, like they drink blood. There’s some ritual 

Craig: at the scenes where it’s made 100% obvious that the whole town is in on it. Like pretty much every character that we’ve seen the cop, the doctor, Mrs.

Wainwright, the mechanic guys are all gathered around this table, eating me with a portrait of the Reverend hanging above them. And th you know, they say something about him being their leader. So we know that everybody’s in on it. So when this doctor picks her up and gives her a pill, we know there’s something going on.

She goes to sleep and she wakes up to Eugene Levy waking her up as though this had all been a nightmare. Yeah. It’s it’s like the, the earlier 

Todd: in the day, it’s the same. We’re back in the spot where they were on the bed. He was trying to spread her legs and he ends up playing the guitar. She’s even wearing the same clothes.

Right. 

Craig: And she’s like, did you put me back in these clubs?

But he’s just playing it. Cool. Um, and then they, they go and like, they walk around town and she wants to get out of there. She tries to call her parents collect, but the operator tells her that the phone lines are down. She tries to get a bus ticket to go back. Toronto or wherever they’re from. Um, and, uh, the person on the line tells her that there are no buses until the next day.

And so she, she tries to hitchhike. She jumps in the car. It’s one of the creepy guys from the mechanic place. So she jumps back out. She doesn’t want to do that. Yeah. So she really has no choice, but to stay and he’s being weird. I didn’t, I didn’t know what to make of this. He’s being weird and he’s being kind of standoffish with her.

Like he’s trying to tell her that she’s being crazy and there’s nothing wrong. And finally, he’s like, fine. Do whatever you want. I don’t care if you want to leave, go. And he walks away. And while she’s in the phone booth, we see out of focus behind her, him talking to the police chief, who we know is bad.

So there’s something going on. And I don’t know, they like, they spend the day walking around the town. Nothing eventful happens eventually once it’s nighttime. Yeah, go 

Todd: ahead. Eventful things do happen, right? They, they walk by a, uh, a barber shop at one point. And as they’re walking by the barber, who is like a, got, you know, a razor blade or whatever, trimming around some guy’s ear, like literally cuts this guy’s ear off.

And he screams. Yeah. It’s so fast. Did you could almost miss it? What, a little bit of like comedy slash you know, foreboding, I mean, we already know what the whole town is cannibals or whatever, so, but right. I just loved the fact, this is what I loved about this movie is I was never bored. No, I was never bored.

And then with this bit, with this whole, her waking up again, and like, what is going on? Like you’re, like you said, there’s suspicion cast on him because he’s in the background. And I mean, this movie is so much better than most of the movies like this. Yeah. 

Craig: Agreed. It’s it’s clever. And it was, this was unexpected to me.

I didn’t expect this twist, but they, you know, at some point he’s like eating a meat pie, which he makes a point of saying, and, and he gives her a bite. And like, as she’s taking a bite, she, I guess accidentally bites his finger. Like just little details. I mean, I mean anything, but it’s just interesting. But then at the end of the day, when it’s night time, they’re just sitting on the curb and the police chief is like, we don’t like vagrants and hippies around here.

And they’re like, uh, well, we’re staying at the motel. And he’s like, okay, well, get in the back. He’s like, where, where am I supposed to drop you? And the cliff is like, well, I guess the restaurant. And I’m like, what, why would he automatically say that? But the cop takes them back to the restaurant, the quote unquote restaurant and drops them off.

And he’s like, and if you change your mind again, I’ll be out here waiting for ya. And he’s like holding his rifle so stupid. So they go back in there and then. 

Todd: Craig just a second, dude. There’s somebody knocking on my door. Let me just answer really quick. Go for it. Go for it. No problem. No problem. Hello, loyal listeners.

I’m going to cut in right here and let you know that at this point in our recording, the cops showed up at my door, which was a funny little incident that happened. And, uh, because we normally edit these sorts of things out of the podcast. You’re not going to hear it here. However, if you are interested in hearing the full unedited version of this here, a little bit of my encounter with the Chinese police, uh, as well as, uh, all of the podcasts that we do in the future, we’re currently running a Patrion campaign.

Uh, if you go to our website to guys.red, 40 net.com, you can check out the details on that. If you throw a few bucks our way and become a. We have a, several benefits. One of those is the access to the completely unedited versions of our phone calls every week in case that’s something that’s interesting to you.

One thing that we’ve put together, especially for folks is access to a full interview that our loyal listener. Has put together with us. And she asked us a bunch of personal questions, a bunch of questions about the podcast, horror movies, what goes into doing this, what we’ve learned over the years. I think it’s a lot of fun and very entertaining, and that is going to be available exclusively for our patrons.

Also accessible for patrons is many sodas that we’re going to be putting together a few of those per month. We’re just a shorter version of what we do here. Maybe one of us may be both of us, depending on how we’re feeling, talking about some movies that we’ve watched and our thoughts on those as well.

So once again, if you are interested in hearing my encounter with the police and, uh, all of these other extra goodies that I’ve just rattled off, please go to our website, to [email protected] and consider tossing a few bucks our way to keep this podcast going and become a. Thank you so much for your support.

Craig: Okay. So, um, he dropped some off there and then, you know, just they’re they’re in there for like a second. And then the freaky Igor guy, the Reverend, and all of the girls show up and walk in the room. And Chris cliff is like, well, I brought her, so I guess he was in on this, like, I think that what had happened was they told him that if he could deliver her, they would let him go.

So he tries to leave. But they don’t let him. And then the, uh, Reverend hypnotizes her again and hands her amaze and she kills him with it. She swings it at him and it hits him right in the abdomen and he’s all immediately dead. And so all the girls and the Reverend join hands meal around him. And sing again

because you know, that’s what you do. Yeah. And I have in my notes here, I’m like, oh, well, Gloria has black hair. So I guess now they’re like a full set.

Todd: That’s so true. Oh man. I didn’t even pick up on that. Lead it, leave it to you. The 

Craig: freaky guy, drags cliff away. And then the next thing we see is all the Reverend and all of the girls, including Gloria sitting around just feasting on meat and it’s like barbecue. I’d like all of the girls have like barbecue sauce and crap all over their hands and all over their faces and, and Gloria.

It’s sitting there and she seems a little bit reluctant. Um, but then she looks at the Reverend and he gives her like a smile and a nod and she smiles and then she just digs into, and then, and I thought this was so clever. It fades to Mrs. Wainwright. Talking to a new couple at the motel and saying, so that’s the story of the four cannibal girls 

Todd: that cycle continues.

Yeah. And 

Craig: then that’s the end. So like, obviously this is what they do. Oh 

Todd: God. I have to, I have to admit to you while I was watching this movie, I was eating ribs. 

Craig: No gross. 

Todd: Yeah. It was really gross. And here’s the thing like when, when I was watching the walking dead, I haven’t watched the walking dead for years.

I gave up after like season five, I think. But, um, I would, I would watch the walking dead. I had ordered chicken wings. I didn’t care. I was watching this movie and eating ribs. There was something about the scenes where the, where they’re eating this stuff, this raw. That’s prepared stuff with red goop all over and shit.

That was, it was just gross. It grossed me out. I don’t know. Maybe the walking dead gore is just too slick or whatever, and this was just a really visceral and gross. I was a little more grossed out than I usually am. I 

Craig: think it has something to do too with the juxtaposition of the beautiful girl, probably.

Right. Yeah. They’re so beautiful. And then they’ve got sauce and crap all over their faces. Like, it just doesn’t seem right. Like you 

Todd: like you’re right. Why, why do that? 

Craig: But it’s effective and you know, like you said, Well, I don’t know. One of us said I just, uh, walked away feeling, you know, I wasn’t bored. It was, it surprised me.

I was expecting it to be really bad and I was ready for that. And I was, and I was okay with it and I was, and, you know, going in I’m like, I know it’s going to be bad, but sometimes we have a really good time talking about these really bad movies. And, you know, if somebody were to say to me, this is a bad movie, I would say that’s, that’s fair.

It is in many regards, depending on what you’re judging quality based on, but I still. I had a really fun time with it. I’m glad to have watched it. I kind of can’t wait to pull it out of my back pocket and talk about it. Oh, you like Eugene Levy, you should really check out cannibal girls. And I like, you know, I honestly, I don’t know a whole lot about Ivan Reitman.

What I know about Ivan Reitman is Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters too. I love Ghostbusters. I still love Ghostbusters. Uh, it’s a hilarious movie. It’s a lot of fun. It was the first horror movie that I remember being really, really interested in. And I wanted my, my parents went and saw it in the theater.

Begged them to take me with them. And they didn’t, and it was probably more a matter of them just wanting to have some time away from their kids, rather than thinking that it wasn’t appropriate for me. But I did eventually see it Ghostbusters two wasn’t as good, but I mean, I still enjoyed it, I guess in Ghostbusters too.

Uh, at some point where they’re doing, you know, these city shots of ghosts invading and stuff, there’s a theater and on the marquee, it’s cannibal girls and in, uh, the newest Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters after life, they repeat that gag. There’s, there’s a theater marquee with cannibal girls on it. I had never heard of it before.

I probably never would have if Ivan Reitman hadn’t passed away and we weren’t doing this podcast, but I feel like it’s a find like this is, it’s just a little treasure that I knew nothing about. And I went in totally blind. It was, it was fun. I had a great time. I had a 

Todd: great time talking about it. I did too.

I thought it was a fun movie. I was really shocked at how much, like you said, I was shocked at how much I actually enjoyed it. I was never bored. It was weird, but it was also a product of its time. So kind of that bit of it is fun to write just to the slang and the dress and the talking about hippies and things and the excessive gore at times.

It’s not actually that gory really, but at times it’s just, yeah, it’s the blood. It, it, it did definitely subvert my expectations and the humor part of it was just so I guess, smart. Right? Like it was just so understated played straight that I thought that bit of it, it will, sometimes it was goofy comedy.

Sometimes it was just like, like we said, like slice of life silliness and, uh, yeah. You know, which can only come when you’re just getting your friends together to do a movie and you’re improvising half of it. Right, right. I mean, a little bit of a lightning in a bottle. I can see where this movie would have tickled people who were going to see it for the first time and the drive in, or the grindhouse or whatever.

Why would have caught the attention of a person like Samuel Z Arkoff or, um, Roger Corman and been distributed in the us. And you know, it, it was the springboard for Ivan Reitman’s career. You know, he goes on from here to Meatballs and Stripes. Both of which Bill Murray, who was also a Second City guy, who then therefore was a huge actor in Ghostbusters and launched his career, certainly.

Uh, and, uh, you know, even into the nineties, uh, Ivan Reitman, I believe, was doing like Beethoven and space jam. Yeah. You know, he’s had a cool career and he’s a name that whenever it pops up on the screen, I do take notice. And, uh, yeah, it’s sad that he’s gone, but, uh, yeah, I would love to die in my sleep. I hope that’s how it works for me.

So. Very cool to see sort of the genesis of a career and have this opportunity to explore this. Uh, we don’t often think about, you know, that these people who are so famous and so popular today came from beginnings, maybe so similar to ours, they just had an interest in this sort of thing, and they rounded up their friends together and they did the stuff, you know, it ended up one way or another again, launching them into this, this great successful career.

It’s, it’s really cool. It’s really inspiring. And, uh, it is, I think, a fitting tribute to, uh, his humble beginnings as the director of Cannibal Girls.

Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share with a friend. You can find us online. If you just search to guys and chainsaw podcasts, our Facebook page or Twitter feed, and let us know what you thought of this episode and let us know what you’d like us to do in the future.

If you have any requests until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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Now here’s something completely novel: A classic haunted house story, entirely underwater. If that’s not enough to send you to the streaming services, how about if we told you that it was indeed shot entirely underwater, with 100% practical effects? We really enjoyed this French flick that managed to wring some novelty out of a well-worn genre.

The Deep House (2021)

Episode 291, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig. 

Todd: So this week a movie that was Craig’s idea shot during the middle of the COVID going on and released in 2021. And it’s called The Deep House and you can watch it. I think just streaming online. I think it premiered on epics then went to paramount plus, and maybe it’s on another service or two it’s on 

Craig: Hulu.

Todd: Now this is a really cool premise. It’s funny. You had met, you had brought it up to me and I instantly was like, yeah, let’s watch it because I had been reading about it myself. Uh, I saw the poster and I thought, what a haunted house under water that is too good to be true. And at first I thought, well, this is just some dumb, low budget movie that was probably shot really cheaply.

And it was a low budget movie, but it was shot quite seriously with a lot of care. And, uh, actually when you read about the behind the scenes stuff, that when I was watching this too, I was also thinking, all right, how much of this is cheat? You know, did they really shoot all of this underwater? Yes, they did.

What an accomplishment and as much as Craig and I both love underwater photography in general, it’s just like a dream come true for us. A class. Haunted house movie in almost entirely underwater shot, practically with some great behind the scenes stories and all kinds of stuff. It’s a French movie and the directors are Alexandra and Julian, Mari, I suppose that’s how you say their names.

Yeah. They’re they’re horror people. They’ve they’ve um, done, uh, several collaborations before this. I think they did a movie that’s I haven’t seen it’s called inside. It’s supposed to be pretty brutal about a woman who, um, somebody else’s wanting her baby. And that seems, I feel like we’re going to watch some of these other ones before you know it.

And then they did a movie called among the living, which I know the title, but I I’m not aware of it. And then apparently one that that’s got some good press just before this one that was released in 2020 called Condit. Yeah, I, I have to just say right off the bat, I was really impressed with this movie.

I really enjoyed it. Uh, it is literally a classic haunted house movie underwater, even with a lot of your iconic haunted house type stuff. You know, with ghosts and doors creaking, open improbably, creaking, open underwater and stuff like that. But I thought they struck a pretty good balance and I found it pretty scary.

Actually. I know I jumped several times and was pretty freaked out. Now. I been scuba diving before I’m certified scuba, although I have not dove in at least 20 years. So I am way out of practice and out of experience. But part of the joy of watching these two is, you know, I was kind of seeing like all, would there really last this long?

What are they doing that that’s not that probable, you know, what do they do? The only thing I could, there are only a couple of things I could find. And one was, they split up way too much. Cause that’s absolutely something you never do when you scuba dive. You always dive with a buddy. Wearing. And I think this was pointed out in the trivia too.

He’s got a dive computer that plays music, and that would never happen in real life. Your, that would be too distracting. You would not have anything that plays music while you’re under water. You’re supposed to be paying a hundred percent of attention to what’s going on. And your buddy. Yeah. And the other thing is that, uh, w which was, I think, a convention for the audience, part of the kind of thrill of it, right?

It’s are they going to run out of air, you know, constantly checking their dive computers, and that’s showing their air as a percentage, which is good for us, because then we can kind of tell actually that would be done in pressure for us, like PSI. And that the simple reason, if you want to get really technical about it is that the amount of air that you have to breathe really varies depending on how deep you are, right?

Because the deeper you are with the more water pressure, the more compressed the air is that you breathe. And so you’re gonna run out of your tank a lot faster, cause you’re breathing compressed air with every. Whereas the closer you are to the surface, every breath you’re, you’re, you’re breathing in less air from the tank because it’s not so compressed.

So it’s, uh, you have more air, a couple of fun facts there, otherwise. Um, I thought that was a nice device to have the combination of the haunted house and then the whole deal. Now you’re trying to get out of the haunted house, but there are a whole, it’s a whole new challenge when you’re actually under water and the haunted house.

Right. So, yeah, it was really cool. Um, so, okay. That was, well, see, I hadn’t seen this before, but I think you had seen it before. Uh, we, we decided to do it for the podcast, 

Craig: right? Yeah. I had, I had heard of it when it was being made or when it was initially released. I don’t know, but, um, I was really interested in it too.

And I watch a lot like, like I probably watched four. Horror movies a week. Um, it’s funny because when I’m like scrolling through the streaming services and stuff, always in my mind, I’m thinking, should I watch this? Or should I wait and suggest it for the podcast? But this one, this one, um, popped up unexpectedly with zero fanfare streaming and I had wanted to see it.

And so I put it on and I watched it. And even as I was watching it. Dammit, we’re going to have to do this for the podcast, which means I’m going to have to watch it again so I can take notes and really pay close attention. Um, but you know, I don’t mind rewatching things. I rewatch things all the time, but I did like, not only did I think that it would be fun to talk about, but I knew that you would be interested in it just because of the underwater concept.

And, and like you said, it’s really a very standard haunted house movie. it gave me like, I was getting major shades of. Hell house, LLC, like just, just really spooky stuff. Like, I don’t know means it’s creepy haunted house stuff. Um, but then you, but then you add the element of being underwater and the imagery of that, obviously we’ll, we’ll start at the beginning at some point, but when you actually get to the point where super clearly supernatural stuff is going on, like spoiler alert, ghosts, the, the, you know, just ghosts underwater, you know, ghosts move in a very kind of fluid way anyway.

But to see them like floating in water and moving slowly through water, it was striking imagery. And, and I was surprised to find out that this filmed on a low budget because it doesn’t feel like it, the cinematography. Parts is just stunning. Yeah. There are parts where it’s, it’s like handy cam or they’ve got an underwater drone, which is cool.

And, and so sometimes it’s a little grainy or the water’s murky or something, but sometimes when they have really clear shots, I mean, it’s just, it’s beautiful to look at. I mean, there are many points, but there’s one. Image in particular, where, when they approach this underwater house, which we’ll explain, but there’s, there’s a family Mazda Liam outside of it.

And the guy there, there are really principally, only two people in this movie. There are a few other characters early on, but once they get under water, which happens very quickly, there are really these, just these two main characters, but the guy floats up above this Mazda Liam, and it’s shooting him from the front and he he’s goofing around.

He’s mimicking the crucifixion and floating up in front of this. Mazal Liam being back lit by the sun from the surface underwater. Oh man. It’s just. So cool. 

Todd: Just striking. It’s not a found footage movie per se, but it’s shot in a found footage style because the only three cameras, once we’re underwater that we get.

The three points of view are, like you said, the GoPros on each of the two divers and then this third drone thing that they have, that he can control that’s down there. I was reading an interview with the directors and they said that turned out to be pretty key because with a lot of found footage type movies where you’ve got the actor holding the camera and moving it around, it can be disorienting.

And then because underwater is disorienting anyway, for a lot of reasons, you know, they, they were afraid it would be a bit too much. And having that third camera there, that they could get these wide shots, you know, it’s something a little more, still turned out to be key. And I think it’s very effective in this movie, if it were all just straight through the, the GoPros of these two and we didn’t get that wide, those wide drone shots, it would not have nearly.

As good as it was. I think it would have felt cheaper to be 

Craig: honest. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel cheap at all. I actually would have expected that it would have been rather costly to, I mean, I just can’t imagine. I mean, I, frankly, I’m glad to hear that you found behind the scenes stuff because I couldn’t find very much, I found reviews and there’s, there’s not very much, uh, on IMD B, but you know, filming a movie, there are so many people behind the scenes there’s, you know, an enormous crew of people.

And again, I don’t really know how it worked, but to do most of this underwater, I don’t know, was the director down there with them, you know, what was there some sort of crew down there with them there must have been, well, please enlighten me because I’m absolutely fascinated. 

Todd: Yeah. So, um, they managed to fi okay, so first of all, their concept was very basic.

It was like, Hey, underwater and haunted house. And they called up their producer that they work with. And he said that he was sold on it in like five seconds. Like let’s do this. And they ended up raising, um, ultimately about 5 million to do it, which is still a pretty low budget for a movie. Like. But they needed an, a DP who could do this effectively underwater.

And they found the DP, I guess he’s one of the better, uh, one of the best underwater DPS around, uh, Jacques Ballard, uh, who did the Beyonce video running, which is all underwater. It’s like people running underwater. I went and saw it. It’s actually pretty stunning video. So they found him and then they built these sets.

Of course the rooms don’t have roofs on them that way they could get in and out of them quickly. And also for safety, you know, nobody’s going to be trapped under anything, but they got the largest tank in Europe, uh, which is in Belgium. And they built all of these rooms, this, this set, and put it on this kind of like on this.

Great. So. That would lower the set into the water, like a meter an hour, so that, you know, as, as they built a set and everything, and they started lowering it, things didn’t start floating away or the second just, you know, kind of explode on them. And then, uh, they, they was, it was basically six meters underwater, so not too deep, really, but they had people who like their crew were all professional divers and they could be underwater for like 6, 7, 8 hours a day without coming up.

And so, you know, they had lots of security. They said that was the biggest part of it all was the security aspect and the safety aspect. That was number one, right. Was just making sure that they had spare tanks, like emergency tanks, like hidden under beds and places, people down there who, if there was an issue they could come right in with spare oxygen or whatever.

And they were just hidden around different places in the sets. And then they were always up above the. With, you know, all the camera footage in front of them, the screens and things. And then they had, they could communicate, you know, through microphones and headsets with the divers and the actors. And they said it was really different from the way they’re used to shooting, which is they’re very hands-on they can get in there.

They’re like, oh, let’s move this here. Let’s do that. Whereas this time they were like, they would have to communicate with a guy, Hey, on the mantle piece, we need to move, you know, those, those three vases to the left a little bit. No, no, no, no. That’s too far. All right. Now, now a little, you know, a little more to the right.

Okay. Got it. And just everything that they needed to be done had to community communicated through here, the actors themselves they were communicating with. And so they had to act while they were also following instructions from them, because remember they’re controlling the cameras as well. So they’re like, all right, so you’re going to go into the room now.

Turn, you’ll look around. I want you to turn your camera left. Tip the excess up just a little bit to the left. There you go. Okay. Now swing back around and look over there. Those actors, they, I don’t think they were professional divers or anything before this. They certainly weren’t. Um, but uh, they said that wasn’t as important.

Yeah. And they just did it all here in, in this, most of it there in that tank. And then I think they did some shooting in a bigger lake, like some of the more exterior ones, fish and the coral and the things like that. But the rest of it was in this tank, six meters underwater and the ghosts that they said that was the most challenging part was finding people to play the ghosts because they’re not going to have scuba gear on.

And so they found three free divers. They said they were super lucky to find these three people, two more elderly. Folks and a one younger, 19 year old girl, they literally free dove. So they would go down there, they would do their scenes and then come up for oxygen to come back down and do it again. And that was pretty incredible.

Yeah. That’s 

Craig: crazy. You know, it’s funny. Like I was so immersed in the story that I didn’t even think about that, you know, like I was like, well, they’re ghosts. They don’t need to breathe. No, Craig, those are actually real people.

Todd: Well, the other thing too, we’re going to get into it, but like they move through this house, like walking on the floor, which is really impossible to do underwater. So they had to like weigh them down and pull them slowly with very, very thin wires and stuff to get them to be able to effectively walk on the floor and sort of do these more classic scenes of the ghost creeping around, which ended up looking really good.

Right. It does. 

Craig: It really does. Oh gosh. Yeah. It’s it’s fascinating. I mean, that’s. It’s selling it short to call it a gimmick, but it is a gimmick. And that’s what drew me to this movie, you know, in horror. I think we’re constantly looking for something that hasn’t been done before and also in horror, we’re inundated with reboots and remakes and tropes and, and that’s fine.

Like, I, I just, you know, a couple of weeks ago watched the new Texas chainsaw movie. Was it. Was there anything really, particularly new or interesting about it? No. Did I still think it was a lot of fun? Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll, I’ll take it whatever. But when I see something like this, which is something that I haven’t seen before, and I have never seen an underwater haunted house movie before, it’s just fun.

It’s, it’s just fun to see, uh, some, some new. Stuff. Um, and beyond that, as I’ve said repeatedly, at this point, it is a pretty typical haunted house movie, 

Todd: but it’s underwater. It’s 

Craig: different. Yeah. I think this is funny not to get too meta. Um, but I think that part of the reason that I was drawn to this was because these people are vloggers.

They are, um, like YouTube vloggers, their names are Tina and Ben. They’re a young couple, they’re romantically involved. They’re not married, but they’re shtick. And, and you know, this is a very common thing I think is they go around to like abandoned presumably or supposedly haunted places. And they tour them and they, they video it and they post it online.

Ben is super. Concerned about how many views they get and how many likes and comments they get and stuff. Obviously this is, you know, a small facet of each of our lives, but it’s something that you and I think about, you know, we think about content. We think about what people are going to be interested in and what people want to see.

And we want to reach as many people as possible. So I, I kind of related on that level. Like I get it. And when, um, they were down there and things started to get a little bit spooky, he just keeps wanting to go further because he’s like, oh my gosh, you know, like, this is, this is such great content or we’re going to get so many views.

People are going to love this. Um, and I get it. Cause I think about that stuff too. We were here. Entertain. And we like it when we get good feedback. So I totally get the, the drive to do that. I’m certainly not devoted enough to this podcast to put myself in any kind of peril. Um, but, uh, I, 

Todd: I mean, step up to the plate, man.

Step up to the plate. How much do you want it? 

Craig: Dude, I get up at 8:00 AM on Saturdays to record this. That’s like the level of sacrifice that I am committed to. 

Todd: I mean, the cops show up at my door occasionally that’s, you know, think of the danger I’m putting myself into 

Craig: man. Yeah, so, okay. So we, we opened up with this couple and we kind of see what they’re doing.

They’re hiking in an abandoned building in a town that I couldn’t begin to pronounce Vince Stevia in Ukraine, which by the way, I think I can speak for Todd. When I say we stand with the people of Ukraine, uh, we hate what is going on there right now. And we hope that it comes, um, to a resolution in the very near future and that Ukraine comes out.

Okay. All right. So anyway, just coincidence that it happens to be the case, but, um, and, and, and it’s, it’s very typical, you know, I I’ve seen these shows. I’ve watched these shows where people, you know, tour these abandoned places and it’s cool. It’s I, you know, I even have friends, you and I have mutual friends who are into this 

Todd: stuff, urban exploration.

Yeah. 

Craig: Right. The only thing, you know, we don’t see. Here there they’re touring in this place. One thing that I guess is kind of important is that they’re constantly connected via headset. I think even now they’re probably recording for their vlog. Ben goes Mia for a second and she’s trying to contact him and calling out to him and he doesn’t respond.

And eventually he jumps out and scares her, which is apparently something he does. Um, so, you know, set up for later after that, it cuts to three months later and we see Tina in a bath, no nudity in this movie, but she’s in the bath and she’s working on holding her breath. She looks at her watch to see how long she’s been under.

And it’s been a minute 22. But when she goes outside to meet Ben, I look awful in the morning. Well, think you look sexy as hell and it’s it’s Nunes. What was your time?

What was your time? I don’t know. Maybe three minutes. That’s it? What do you mean scuba diving? Not snorkeling now you’re scuba certified. Is that a thing? 

Todd: No, I 

Craig: didn’t. I assumed not like I assumed that you would just never want to find yourself in a position where you would have to hold your breath for an extended 

Todd: period of time.

I mean, there are two things. When you go through the scuba certification, there’s a number of tests you have to kind of go through. And one of them is like a breath capacity, breath, strength sort of test. I think, uh, it just had me breathe really hard into a machine and measured it and said, okay, you’re good.

But the other thing is actually, you don’t want to hold your breath under water when you’re scuba diving, because of this pressure thing, you hold air. If you hold air in your lungs and you go up high or, or, um, you know, if you rise for some reason, you know, that air is going to expand and hurt you. So especially you are definitely not going to want to hold your breath while you say, if for example, if you find yourself in an emergency situation, you have to surface quickly.

You’re going to have two problems. You’re going to have the beds where the, the, the oxygen in your bloodstream is going to expand and cause bubbles in there, which can also be fatal. But then the other thing is, of course, you’re not going to hold any air in your lungs while you’re ascending so quickly or else your lungs will just explode.

So, yeah. So it’s not really a 

Craig: thing I assumed not. I mean, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of a setup for later, but it ultimately, it’s really not even an important, 

Todd: I mean, if you were in an emergency situation, you right down there and you’re, you’ve got equilibrium, you know, you’re not going anywhere and someone’s got to get another host to you so that you can print it again then.

Yeah, of course it helps to be able to hold your breath. But, uh, hopefully God, not for three minutes, unless you’re splitting up like these two, like to do 

Craig: so they take off on their expedition and then the title comes up in the title, sinks down the screen, which I. Was kind of genius. I loved it. And they end up, they are in Southwest France in this small dying village.

I have no idea. I mean, this was shot in the south of France. Um, I have no idea where this actual village was, but it was haunting. It looked, you know, mostly abandoned and they’re seeking out this supposedly secret spot where supposedly, I think there’s like a sanitorium or something that is underwater.

Um, but when they get to their secret spot, it’s actually wildly populated. Like it’s a really popular tourist spot. People are skiing, you know, people on the beach all over. 

Todd: It’s like a lake, right? Yeah. 

Craig: It’s a lake. Ben is bummed and he’s pouty about it. And she’s like, you know what? Oh, well let’s just, you know, be tourists or whatever, but then.

Ben chat’s up this local guy, Pierre, who immediately, I was like, oh, creepy gas station guy, totally shady. And of course, for a small fee, he offers to take them to a remote secret spot in the lake where there is supposedly at the bottom, a perfectly preserved. And they take him up on it, you know, they drive far away and then they have to cover the last couple of miles by foot.

So they Trek through the woods. And then when they’re, they’re preparing randomly under his breath, Pierre says that is not dead, which can eternal lie Jew. And they’re like, what? And he’s like, oh, nothing, just an old family motto. Okay. Nevermind.

Todd: It was just thinking aloud. And that has no bearing on, well, you know, I was just thinking about this. Maybe people would wonder why there would be houses in sanatoriums under water. This is a man-made lake. Yeah. I mean, you know, this is something that obviously makes a lot of sense, but I wasn’t thinking about it, but you and I both have lived in a town that has a man-made lake.

And how do you make a lake? You basically just flood a deep part of, of the land and that’s what was done in our town. Uh, they just dam something up and let the rain fill it in or brought water and diverted some water. And I thought about this often because the place we were, um, has. Indian like ancient, like, you know, like native American sites, like Petro petroglyphs in the rocks and things.

And certainly there was a home or two or, or just things that people dropped or buried that once that water filled it up, you know, decades ago are still, probably down there under the water and under the, under, under the water, you know? And so, yeah, just flood the place and leave everything there. And who cares, consume 

Craig: around terribly uncommon.

In fact, the, the lake that you are referring to in my hometown, I’ve heard now this not, may not be true, but I’ve heard that during the construction of the lake, they got a lot of rain unexpectedly before they were completely finished. And so some of their excavation equipment didn’t make it out. Like it’s still down there.

I have no idea if it’s true or not, but creepy to think about. But yeah, this happens with man-made lakes, you know, they just flood areas and why bother to go to the trouble and expense of raising things, if you know who cares, it’s just going to be under the water, whatever, but he tells them, he’s like, well, just below, there is a perfect place to propose you can’t miss it, just follow the stairs down.

And, and they go down there and, and they, they, they submerge and, you know, it’s established that they can communicate through this sound system or whatever. And the first thing they find is, uh, is a perfectly preserved car. Perfectly preserved. I don’t know if there’s any truth to this, but I was talking to my friend and friend of the podcast, Heather, and she says that she has a read about this and that it, there is some truth to it that there’s something about the alkaline levels and lake water that preserve things it’s not.

And they talk about this in the movie. It’s not like sea water, which is highly corrosive and breaks things down immediate. Now it makes no sense that things are as preserved as they are once we actually get down here. But it’s cool to look at. And right away they find the gates, the house, there are like religious icons and other weird things like hung on the gate.

And the girl’s like, oh yeah, I forgot how superstitious people in this region are. Well, there’s reason 

Todd: when 

Craig: you, when you were talking about how they filmed it, some of it in a lake, but the interiors were mostly, um, on underwater stages. That makes a lot of sense, but they explained like, so when they are in just the lake in general, there are fish everywhere.

As soon as they cross the gate. She comments that the fish have completely disappeared. Now that makes perfect sense. There, the interiors are filmed on stages, so there wouldn’t be any fish, but it serves the story. Yeah. You know, like, like the fish are staying away from the house, which is 

Todd: creepy and cool.

They find that that little family crypt and they see the name on it. Uh, Monta

Martha Nakia. And, uh, they, they actually break, he actually breaks open the door. Cause it’s just kind of bolted there. Something he wants to go in, but she says, no, that’s bad luck. Let’s not do it. Uh, and he’s like, fine, fine. So they go up to the house itself. That’s an important element for later, which was a bit of a surprise and they go to the house and they were kind of trying to get in and it’s this beautiful.

He makes a comment like, well, it’s huge. But then later he makes a comment like, well, let’s just go inside. It’s probably not going to take as long the house isn’t very big. Are you kidding me? What this thing is? Monster like several stories, tall mansion, you know, just very Gothic looking. It’s just great, like Chateau type thing.

And it’s overgrown with vines and stuff and, and, but you’re right. There are no fish and they try the door and I just completely shut it off. 

Craig: But why shutter a house that’s going to get flooded? Let’s find out

Todd: upstairs, but they eventually find entrance to the home through a sort of a big round, a one of those cool round windows up in the. And so they go away. They, they, they pull it open and they get inside the attic and instantly it’s creepy and cool at the same time. And I think the thing that struck me as I was watching, it was number one, like you just said, said how well-preserved everything was.

And I thought, really, this is what I started wondering. Did they do some green screen work on this? Because everything is just, I would, I would expect there to be more things floating around, you know, even after you flood it, that the lake or whatever, and left the house there, I would still think. Things would float away a little bit, you know, you wouldn’t find tables with stuff, sat on it and you wouldn’t find these things all upright and set out almost as though somebody just left and it’s not underwater at all.

Right. So there’s that element to it and they’re flipping through, but then they do actually make a comment about it, right? Like, wow. At one point she says this house was flooded like before I was born and everything still seems so well-preserved and so intact there photographs. And there’s a couple of, I think, you know, how many years have we been doing this podcast?

Uh, and, uh, this might be our very first fish jump scare we’ve ever, that we’ve ever done. Which was also effective as soon as they opened that, that window, the fish swims right out and scared the crap out of me. I 

Craig: loved that too, because he was like, oh man, jump scares. Get so many views. Please tell me you got that on camera.

Todd: That’s right. And there’s a creepy floating Dall. And there’s weird animal skulls on the walls that kind of have this whole cow skull motif throughout there. Even the wallpaper has patterns of like the cow skulls and stuff on it. And some rooms, if you’re paying attention anyway, and their photographs and, and, you know, it’s, it’s pretty standard.

Explore the creepy old house. That just seems a little off. 

Craig: It reminded me of a first person. Video game. Like they come in, like they come in through the attic and then they have to just make their way down. So, you know, it’s just like a video game. Like you come in one room and you explore that room and then you move into that.

Like, it’s just a sequence of rooms and they’re, they’re all creepy. Like you said, I mean, there are skulls, like bull skulls with horns on every wall. Like, like you said, creepy dolls, all kinds of. They get into like one bedroom that’s it appears to be a nursery, but there’s a doll with like weird pagan symbols on its forehead.

And there’s a whole wall. I think they are missing people, posters. It’s all kids freaks collect those like a freebie kids. Like it’s creepy, but I it’s, it’s it’s typical stuff, but that doesn’t make it any less effective. And, and I did, you know, and the drone, um, is, is picking up moving. Even though there’s nothing else around there hearing things like that.

The equipment shorts out a little bit, the audio equipment shorts out a little bit, the video on the drone shorts out a little bit. And sometimes they’ll just hear things that they shouldn’t like. They hear a strange, low voice, like chanting, creepy words. And at one point they’re going through like the, uh, dining room or something and there’s a piano in there and they hear a piano note strike.

Like 

Todd: there’s I didn’t even happen underwater. Yeah. But what happened in a haunted house? And. Uh, pretty creepy bit where they’re in a bedroom and, uh, it has like a curtains kind of hanging around the bed. And as he swings his light around and I saw it even before he mentioned it, you can see that there’s a figure, like a silhouette in there of a person sitting up in the bed.

And I thought, okay, that’s going to be like another doll or something. And then something happens with the light and the light flickers, and then he goes over and he opens it and there’s nothing inside. So yeah, 

Craig: the only criticism that I have, and I only noticed this upon second viewing and I get it, it makes perfect sense.

I completely understand why they did what they did. Everything is perfectly preserved unless it’s. Well, 

Todd: like pianos in shambles, the graphs are like clear as day. 

Craig: Exactly. Like there will be books open on a desk that the pages are perfectly preserved, but the piano. Is a mess. It’s fine. It didn’t bother me.

You know, like it’s spooky 

Todd: also the same thing. As some things are just floating and most things aren’t right. Like, like all this stuff, these plates, dishes and vases and stuff and recording equipment. And it’s just sitting on shelves everywhere. Not, not floating nothing’s happening. It’s all sitting right where it is.

But then they go into the dining room and like four chairs are just like floating 

Craig: around and like, all of the candelabra is, are floating. Like those are metal. Like, I mean, it looks great 

Todd: classic haunted house, right? That’s like total like Disney con and managerial floating candelabra. So 

Craig: they eventually, so they make their way down to the kitchen and 

Todd: they are.

Is important because, uh, they opened the front door, which they couldn’t open from the other side. And they noticed that, you know, it’s, it’s blocked with a metal doors on the outside, but there are scratches on it. Like somebody had been trying to get out. So that’s very 

Craig: unsafe or something like they were big scratch, deep scratches.

Yeah. And they, they make their way down to the kitchen and they find they’re like, oh my gosh, what is that? And it is a full, like, huge size. Like you would only find in a church crucifix hanging over this door. Now I was sitting here yesterday, watching this and my partner Allen was sitting behind me, uh, doing a puzzle with his back to me.

And, uh, I turned, I didn’t turn to him. I just said, um, Allen, if we’re ever. Exploring a creepy house and we find a door that’s blocked off by an enormous crucifix. Let’s not take that down and go in there 

Todd: like a bad idea.

Craig: It’s like, it’s like Martha Plimpton in the Goonies when she’s like, um, brand, I think, uh, God put that rock there for a reason. 

Todd: It is so funny that you bring that up because that exact quote was going right through my head when I bought,

Craig: but they do, they take it down and throw it on the floor because they must not be religious folk. Um, and they go in and it’s the seller. And like immediately in the seller there. To corpses chained it. Like they’re hanging from chains, but because it’s underwater, it’s like they’re suspended, floating in chains and they’ve got these weird, like medieval, like torture masks on I’m sorry.

Like as much as I appreciate the desire for good content at that point, I’d be like, Nope,

Todd: we are done.

Even after they wrote where they leave that room. We’ll later that she makes some comment, like, I think we need to go straight to the police. He’s like, are you kidding me though? The first thing we’ll do is confiscate our footage. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah, dude, you got, you’ve got a lot of memory card. Upload it, and 

Todd: then let them confiscate all they want based.

They’re swimming around up to these guys. I’m like, man, you are very, you are way more. Uh, brave than I am. And it’s like, almost like hanging over a floor thing. He says, what do you think is, what do you think this was for? Why, why, why is that there? And he says, I don’t know, but maybe the answer is under there and you look down and there’s this giant, I don’t know.

It’s like a manhole cover something like this underneath them, because they’re almost suspended under a, well, it looks like, yeah, lately we later see, like it’s a great, that leads to the surface. Um, and yeah, it has these satanic looking symbols on them. It’s the same thing. Like you said, that we saw on the girl’s forehead right out there.

He calls it a pentagram, but it’s something more than that. And then like the, the door creeks open behind them, which I thought was funny. And so they go into this door, he goes, he goes, Yeah, by himself and inside there is even more disturbing. It’s just, it’s more camera equipment. They were finding like film strips around.

Um, and they’re like a wonder what they were filming. There was more camera, equipment, more film, and then jars of Oregon’s, there’s a severed hand, little bits and pieces of things, super disturbing. And she’s like, what’s in there, what’s in there. And he’s like, um, nothing, uh, just more camera equipment. It’s fine.

And when he comes back out, is it at this moment where she turns around and looks at him and there is definite, is that when the girl is 

Craig: coming. Okay. So they, so they, okay. So when he comes out of there, like I think that finding that stuff kind of freaked him out, but she’s already freaked out and she keeps freaking out and like depleting her oxygen.

So I think that he wants to try to keep her calm. So he doesn’t tell her what he found in there. Now the dead bodies would have been enough, like, oh, that was hands and jars. Okay. Right. Like I’m a little bit more concerned about these weird ass floating courses, but whatever, but he’s like, no, no, there wasn’t really anything in there.

Just more cameras and stuff. So let’s go. So they go all the way back up to the window that they came in. But when they open it up, there’s a brick wall behind it, which is completely unexplained. And, and they can’t explain it at some point. I think it’s when they’re there. Like she’s kind of freaking out and he’s trying to calm her down to.

Stop using so much oxygen and over his shoulder, she definitely, without question, 100% sees a ghost, uh, a young woman ghost, uh, and 

Todd: open eyes open coming at her. It’s 

Craig: scary. It is. And it’s pretty quick, but it is. I mean, there’s no question it, she saw it. It was there. We see it totally a hundred percent. So now they’re like, oh shit, the house is haunted.

And, and they start looking around for ways out, but all the windows are barred up. They can’t find a way out, but then we get another catfish scare, but they, my mind went exactly where there’s did. If that catfish got in here, there’s gotta be a way to get. And so they start trying to follow it, to see if it will lead them to the way out.

Um, and it leads them back to the seller and the guy’s like, are you seriously going back down there? And she’s like, we don’t have any other choice and they follow it down there. And they find presumably where the fish gets in and out, but it’s, it’s Bard big enough for a fish to get through, but not big enough for them.

And that’s when they’re in the room with the corpses and all of a sudden, I think that she is like in right among them because she realizes that they are hanging right directly below. Well, so, so she tries to swim. It’s not like it’s a deep, well, I mean, you can see the light coming down, but she, she swims up there to find that it’s graded and that she can’t remove the grate.

And when she comes back down, she calls out to him, but he’s not there. And then all of a sudden. The corpses are gone. And then in almost hell raiser fashion, the chains that they were suspended from attack, isn’t the right word. And the way that it’s shot, it’s, it’s all shot from her perspective. And there are a lot of bubbles.

And so it’s difficult to really see what’s going on, but she gets very much entangled and immeshed in these chains, which appear to be moving. And they’ve got these big, like meat hooks on them that are tearing into her and then there’s blood in the water. So everything goes red and she’s freaking out.

And I thought that this, it was scary. Like this is a, it’s a pretty scary movie. Like I’m not, I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. They did a good job with the scares. And I thought, you know, that the limited visibility and you can’t really see what’s going on and she’s panicked and all you can hear is her are her screams.

And eventually everything just kind of stops 

Todd: and he’s 

Craig: there and he’s there and he grabs her and she’s like, where were you? And he’s like, what are you talking about? I’m right here. I’ve been here the whole time. And she’s like, the corpses are gone and he’s like, no, they’re not. They’re right there. And he claims that he was behind her the whole time.

Like, whatever happened didn’t happen, but she is. 

Todd: Yeah. I feel like this has meant the cast a little bit of doubt on her sanity, like, and are we seeing things, you know, reliably, you know, or are we seeing her perspective as she’s kind of going crazy and losing oxygen? Cause I, cause I, you know, I thought that could be interpreted two ways.

Either the chains are moving and whatever, or she’s just freaking out and she’s kicking around and, you know, getting tangled up in the chains on her own, which seems to be what he is saying happened. Cause she ends up kind of upside down and he sort of untangled her and then he has the bright idea. To remove the 

Craig: masks.

Fucking kidding me. Like what would inspire you to do something so stupid? It’s really 

Todd: dumb. It’s super dumb. And I wouldn’t believe that for a second, that anybody in that situation would actually stop and do that. Yeah. So that was a little weird, but he takes the masks off and they find that they’re the couple, because they’ve seen pictures and paintings and things.

Craig: And at some point I actually think it’s later, but less, we forget eventually he finds a family tree. Um, and he finds out that Pierre, the creepy guy that brought them there is their son. 

Todd: I knew it. I knew he had to 

be 

Craig: related. So I figured I knew he, yeah. Oh, he had to be in, in some way, but once he takes off the mask, the corpses immediately.

And starts, I there’s something about, you know, a slow and the underwater effect. It just makes sense, like this slow pursuit. Yes. It’s, it’s just, there’s such a great atmosphere about. Yeah, you can only move so fast underwater. I mean, even they, they, I mean, they have flippers at least. So they, that 

Todd: doubles the danger.

Right. It was sorta like the, it follows thing that kind of works so well. Like this thing is just walking towards you. You can see it coming, but it’s not fat. It’s not like right on you. It’s like the slow moving zombie thing too. But then like you said, you’re also going to be impeded. Underwater is moving.

And so it is almost like a slow motion chase scene, you know, where they’re trying to escape from this couple and they turn around. I kept thinking, oh, they’re going to turn around and they’re not going to be there. No, they are still there right behind them the whole time. And they go up and they end up in the dining room or something again.

Right. And they go to close the door over these guys, and they’ve got an arms in there, you know, uh, they just managed to close the door on this couple, but now without pushing and struggling hard against them, that was freaky as hell. That was scary. 

Craig: They impulsively realize that they can escape through the chimney.

And so they start to go up the chimney, but then the chimney collapses and it ends up stranding them in separate rooms. And, uh, she’s downstairs. He’s upstairs. I don’t really know what’s going on with the submersible, the drone. I don’t really know what’s going on with the drone at this point. It kind of seems 

Todd: like, I feel like the drone itself is almost getting a little haunted or possessed.

Yeah. Because it flicks on a red light every now and then, and I’m not sure why, you know, he can kind of see it and control it from her risk, but it’s sometimes it’s not working. And so it’s not that effective. I thought actually the drone there was, was another creepy element from the beginning is just having this sort of mindless robot following you along in there.

And it does sort of like it’s sort of programmed to follow them, I think, unless he directs it somewhere, which he does on occasion to give them more light or to look around the corner. And so I just thought that whole element of having the drone there was also kind of creepy, you know, like the sort of silent century companion that’s, that’s dead, you know, and it seems to almost turn on them at points where it kind of doesn’t work or it’s flashing this red light or it’s kind of pursuing them, but with the red light, but it’s not helping at all 

Craig: spooky moment where the man ghost is kind of pursuing her downstairs and upstairs a woman goes.

Comes into the room that he’s in and he hides under the bed after she’s clearly already seen him. I don’t know what that, I don’t know what that was. It’s 

Todd: so classic horror movie at that point, it got a little silly, right? I mean, I liked it. I liked that they were really going for this in such a direct and, you know, bold way, but you’re right.

Having him hide under the bed while she came in, but it was, it was an interesting effect. And this is one of the things that, you know, like they said, that they said was really difficult to film was she’s literally walking through the room. Like her feet are on the floor. She walks up to the edge of the bed, kind of turns to face the bed while he’s looking from underneath.

It it’s very effective and very creepy just as it would be if it wasn’t underwater. Right. 

Craig: And she eventually, I don’t know, gets so way. And, uh, she ends up finding him in the bedroom, but he’s just kind of floating suspended there. And when she talks to him, he talks to her. Affected. And it’s clearly not him.

She doesn’t jump to that conclusion, but as viewers, we realize it’s not him, he’s possessed or something, and she’s trying to convince him to get out. And he’s saying all of these very cryptic things. 

Todd: Ah, it’s okay. You know, we’re going to be fine. And you know, w we belong here and all this stuff and follow me.

I know the way. 

Craig: Yeah. And there’s, there’s a part where there’s a snake in her suit and it crawls up into her helmet. And she, again, again, Alan is behind me, ed.

And he’s like open your mouth, let it come into your mouth, swallow it. The Allen behind me, he’s like, I saw a movie like that

Todd: and it wasn’t underwater

Craig: eventually. He’s like, I know the way out. And she’s like, oh, thank God. So he leads her to the seller again and, and they find another hidden door behind a cabinet or something. And he leads her into what appears to be like a screening room. Meanwhile, the lights have been coming on for a while now, under 

Todd: water.

Um, 

Craig: and in this screening room, he’s talking to her. I can’t remember what he’s saying, but he’s explaining. And then, uh, the, the film real. Rolling. And he basically narrowed. The back history that this family, the parents, and a sister who was the young woman, female ghosts that we saw, and Pierre had been kidnapping local children to do satanic sacrifices.

And eventually the townspeople came, um, to exact their revenge and they killed, uh, Sarah, the, the daughter in her bed. And they hung up the parents on those hooks and put those masks on them. But Pierre escaped and, and you see gruesome images of, of the torture and sacrifices and stuff. And he’s like, Joe, we have been chosen to be part of their family or something like that.

Then Sarah, the young woman ghost rips through the screen and starts to come at her. Somehow she gets away swims through the screen. The ghost and then both in pursuit, he been eventually catches her and is trying to keep her down there. Meanwhile, we’re also seeing that she has virtually no oxygen left because Ben is holding onto her and trying to keep her down there.

I think she takes her knife and stabs him in the shoulder, in the shoulder, which I guess breaks the spell and he’s himself again. And he has no idea where they are or what’s going on, but 

Todd: where they are is like some kind of chamber. It’s like another, it’s almost like a cave type chamber and they’ve their candles.

And they’re lit under 

Craig: read that it was like some kind of like say Titanic. Uh, I don’t know, something, whatever. 

Todd: There’s like a sacrificial stuff on the floor is a big upside down cross and everything I have to admit at this point. And I, I was a little disappointed in the direction that it took just the magically.

I thought, oh, this is. Corny, you know, it’s just a little campy. It’s pretty typical for a haunted house movie, really. But, but the whole, like he’s now possessed, come join us. I’m going to narrate the entire backstory of how this is going to go. And it ends up being, you know, the satanic rituals and you’re going to be the next one and all that.

I don’t know. I was a little disappointed in that, but yeah, it’s okay. And bother me. 

Craig: Didn’t bother me a little bit. So the spell is broken and she’s like, come on, let’s get out of here. She sees light. Like she thinks there’s a way they can get out. Well then ghost Sarah grabs him from behind and stabs him in the heart.

And, and the ghosts kind of converge on him. And she’s just kind of floating there watching until the older male ghost turns and looks at her and she’s like, oh shit, I guess I better get out of here. So she turns and starts to swim away, but they get a hold of her. At which point she gets the notification that she is out of oxygen.

So to escape them, she takes off her tank and equipment, which they’re clinging to and she swims away and swims up and she does get away and they are looking at her longingly, I guess. But she swims up through this shaft. She has to break through all of these vines and things to get out, but she gets out and this crypt, yes.

Oh, that’s right. 

Todd: Thanks to the fact that they broke the door open. That’s right. 

Craig: And at this point I felt like I know what’s going to happen. And I did. But I like it. I think that is so fitting. Maybe even more so than a haunted ghost filled underwater mansion. This is perhaps even more nightmarish because she swimming, swimming, swimming, and she can see the surface.

It’s right there. It’s right there. But she doesn’t make it. 

Todd: Yeah. Oh, and they tease you about it too, don’t they? Like, you’re not quite sure she slowing down, but then the way they pull the camera away from below, it almost looks like she might be floating to the surface or something. 

Craig: I think she’s going to get that one last burst of adrenaline.

That’s going to launch. 

Todd: And then they showed the surface of the lake for like the last shot of the movie is a surface of the lake, the stillness of it. And you’re just, oh, she going to break? Is she going to come through? Nope, fades away credits. And I was like, all right. That makes perfect sense. It’s frustrating and annoying that she didn’t make it away, but what’s going to happen.

What’s what’s worse. You know, she suddenly burst through the top and like, oh, the nightmare is over. Then what? You know, that would be silly. Honestly, the nihilistic ending is more fitting and more satisfying. Honestly, I think that. I don’t know. And what, like, Pierre is on the S on the, I mean, I don’t know.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. She, she bursts through and then we get the lame, like the descent to stupid sequel where she has to go back down there and whatever dumb. Um, no, I liked it. I liked the nihilistic ending, you know, I, I’m not happy she died. Um, I just thought that it was a fitting, 

Todd: it was fitting yeah. Fitting for the film.

Yeah. And, and, and a little frustrating too, which is a good, which is a good thing. 

Craig: And then did you stick around for the post credit scene? I 

Todd: did. Indeed. 

Craig: Yeah. It just shows Pierre has a. Lured a couple of other divers, young women divers, um, to the spot, there was something about Tina had a peace sign on her scuba gear, um, and pier said something about it.

And it turns out that like the peace sign was appropriated by the hippies. And really it was about like, it was supposed to represent like a broken cross, like the end of Christianity or something. And he said something about it being a good omen. And then these two girls who are going down, they, they prominently show that one of them has a peace sign tattoo on her neck.

Todd: Oh, oh, I didn’t quite catch that, but you’re right. Well, apparently there was also a deleted scene that I guess you can see somewhere, um, on the Blu-ray I think, but I didn’t get to see it where I think Tina is swimming through the mansion and she’s supposed to see a ghost in the mirror, but the ghost is the ghost of an, of a previous diet.

Who’s like warning her go away. Right. And you’re getting you’re in trouble, but, uh, that, that didn’t actually end up in the movie. Yeah. We’re all, 

Craig: I really enjoyed it. Especially the first time now watching on the second watching, I didn’t enjoy it as much, but it’s good. Like, I don’t think it’s any kind of masterpiece, but it is creative and it’s something that I’ve never seen before.

And it’s short the characters, you know, like they did fine. Like I wasn’t particularly invested in them or care about them too much, but I was fine with following them around. And of course they made some stupid decisions, but people in horror movies always do. Um, as far as it being a haunted house movie, you know, it hit the right notes and I did find it to be very spooky.

N scary, uh, at parts I would recommend it. I think it’s definitely worth watching. I don’t, I doubt I’ll ever watch it again, but I give it a thumbs up. I, I think it’s good. And I think it’s 

Todd: worth your time. Yeah. I, a hundred percent agree with you with everything you said. I found it scary and it’s been a while since I’ve been scared and at a horror movie.

So there were a few parts that were genuinely frightening and, and, uh, and for that great, like you said, the rewatch ability is sorta like any of these haunted house movies really. Right. I mean, they really rely a lot on the slow build and the atmosphere and the mystery of what’s going on that unfolds.

So once you’ve been through that, um, it’s not as effective the second time around, but, and then my God, like the technical achievement of shooting this entirely practically, uh, underwater in 35 days in, in these conditions. So cool. Yeah, hats off to the directors, a couple of creative guys, and it sort of makes me want to check out some of their earlier movies.

Well, thank you again for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us online. If you just search for 2 Guys and a Chainsaw podcast, also, you know, we have a Patreon drive going on right now. Please check out our website and follow the link there to get to our patriotic.

Uh, we will be very grateful. If you do become a member, you have access to our unfiltered unedited podcasts. As we record them with all the little bits and things, we cut out some of the stuff that happens before or after we chat on the bone. And also we occasionally release a short little episode mini soaks for you that we’re going to be doing on various topics that will only be available to our Patriot subscribers.

So a quick plug on that, please check us out on Patrion and consider tossing us a few bucks our way if you enjoy the show. Until next time, I’m Todd, and I’m Craig, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.