2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

The fourth installment of the Silent Night Deadly Night franchise takes a definite turn away from Santa stalkers and towards the weird. You might call it the “Halloween 3” of the series, and it truly must be seen to be believed. We just wish there were more Christmas in it overall.

Silent Night Deadly Night 4: The Initiation

Ep 280, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Happy holidays. This is Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: And here we are in week two of, uh, our holiday season. You know, we do this every year, uh, and we make jokes about it every year, but honestly, I love doing these a holiday horror movies. I don’t know. It’s just a lot of fun. And when we were talking about.

This year, you know, now that we’ve been doing this for 400 years, um, you know, we, we talk about this leading up and, and today’s movie is actually one that I saw sometime during this past year. Uh, randomly, I I’ve said on the podcast many times that on days when I have lots and lots of grading to do, I’ll just put on that schlocky, horror movies in the background that I don’t really have to pay much attention to, but that keeps me entertained and motivated to keep working.

And this is one of those. Um, but I w you know, like the movie was playing and I was kind of halfing attention. And then. It got more into it. And like, I just kept getting drawn into it. And by the end, like, especially by the last half hour, I had just completely abandoned the grading altogether. And it was just like, what am I, 

Todd: what is 

Craig: this.

Uh, what we’re doing today is Silent Night, Deadly Night: Initiation. The Silent Night, Deadly Night series is infamous. Of course, you know, the first one caused a huge. Uh, I don’t know, outcry amongst parents and things. And, uh, people were just mortified that anybody would have the audacity to tarnish the sanctity of Christmas and Santa Claus.

It was crazy huge protests got pulled out of theaters after just like a week or two or whatever, but that also of course, uh, raised interest, uh, and the film got a big cult following. And then they did a second one, which was trash. Like people have requested that we do the second one. We haven’t done it.

Have we? No, we haven’t. And part of the reason that we haven’t is because. I think something like 80% of the second one is just flashbacks to the first one. And there are some like campy icon. Moments in the second one, but we haven’t gotten there yet. Maybe someday. Um, the third one I’ve seen again, a direct continuation of the original story.

And then we get to Silent Night, Deadly Night 4, which is basically the Halloween 3 in the Silent Night, Deadly Night franchise. Because up until that point, they had all been about killer Santas. And this one is not. 

Todd: You’re definitely not, 

Craig: not at all this, this movie doesn’t really have, it has a very tenuous, maybe connection, uh, to the earlier movies in that Clint Howard is in this movie and he plays a character named Ricky, who is one of the central characters of all of the first three movies.

It’s unclear if he’s intended to be. Same character or not, but there’s at least the name, connection. This movie is just bad. Shit. Crazy. Yes. Maybe I’m getting ahead of myself with the review, but I’m just going to go ahead and say it. This isn’t a good movie. But you should definitely watch it.

Todd: I mean, there’s something slightly more charming. I don’t know if Charming’s really the right word. Charming is not the right word. There’s definitely something a little more intriguing about this movie as a bad movie than for example, what we reviewed last week. Yes. What we reviewed last week was just bad, bad, bad, and not even in a fun.

Right, right. Not much in a fun way. This movie, just your jaw is on the floor. I don’t know, it’s not necessarily like my jaw was on my floor, but I think I just burned a hole in my head from scratching it so much because I could not for the life of me, figure out what was going on throughout. Most of it also, my God talk about slow.

Pacing, not just the plot was slow. The scenes were slow and not just the scenes were slow, but like the lions were slow. The space between the lines were slow. If I were to go in here and re-edit this film, I don’t think I’d even be an hour just to make it move at a pace that doesn’t feel my grandma in her Walker, but it adds a very surreal quality to it as the movie was going on.

I was thinking, Hmm. Is this a little smarter than I’m giving it credit for? Are they playing with me a little bit and trying to evoke a certain kind of surreal, unreal quality with this movie? And that’s why everything is so odd and stilted because. Like the acting isn’t. So there’s a different kind of bad acting, right?

There’s a hammy bad acting, which like the, which board series, right. Has this hammy over the top terrible community theater type acting. This movie has good actors. This movie has pussy galore is in this movie. 

Craig: Yes, no, no, no. It’s not pussy galore. It’s octopus, the 

Todd: octopus octopus 

Craig: season, maybe my favorite bond name ever.

And that 

Todd: one girl who just always plays the mousy kind of secretary 

Craig: lighting from moonlighting. She’s in. 

Todd: And the older woman is in a, a billion things, you know, and it a long standing well loved actress. It’s hard to believe that all these people. It could be invited to be in this film, let alone act the way they do.

And so I just thought it was, I was thinking back to society, right. Because, and, and you didn’t, you didn’t even need to tell me that the people involved in this movie also made society because it’s the same surreal kind of stilted acting, state, same style of special effects, screaming, mad, George, same kind of weirdness.

Like you don’t know what the hell is going on. But in society, we reviewed that and we, we thought it was a little genius, right? Yeah. We thought that all of that really served the purpose of the story. Uh, they were purposely going for the surreal quality, which, which fed the theme of the movie and made it a little more unreal and, and just really drew us in, in that way.

And then the payoff at the end was, was fantastic. 

Craig: This movie feels much more like a spiritual sequel to society than it does. To silent night, deadly night. Um, it’s the same director, Brian yes-no who directed society, which again is such a, maybe one of the weirdest movies I’ve ever seen, but like, I couldn’t tear my eyes away from it.

And, and this, this one isn’t quite as wild. Like that one goes way over the top. And apparently a society was made first. And then he has an, a made this movie, but I guess this movie was released in the states like two years before society was released in the states, but Yasmina like, yeah, he did society and he did some of the ReAnimator SQLs, but he also was like a major player in the honey.

I shrunk the kids franchise so crazy. It is it’s. Um, and, and this movie, uh, is nuts too, but like you said, it, I had forgotten that there were so many recognizable people in this. I mean, you’ve already mentioned some of them and all of those people, like, you know, that, that woman that you mentioned, uh, Alice Beasley, who is this mousy kind of squeaky voice woman, she was never like a huge star, but she was around a lot in the late eighties, early nineties.

And this movie came out in 19. And it feels like perfectly 1990. Like you still got shades of the eighties, but I feel like, you know, things are taken a little bit of a turn into kind of some more nineties territory. Uh, it’s a great product of. Somebody you didn’t mention Reggie banisters in this 

Todd: movie from, um, from Phantasm.

Craig: Yeah, from the whole fantasm franchise. Uh, Hugh Fink is a guy who has a little tiny supporting role in this. Uh, but I recognized him. He was on SNL and in many other things and the guy that plays the male love interest. Hank, his name is Tommy Hinckley and it only took me a second to place him. I think I don’t, I didn’t even look at his page because in my mind I placed him.

He was in one of my very favorite eighties movie. Back to the beach with a net food of jello and Frankie, Avalon love that movie, but just tons of people that you’re going to recognize. And yet it is so surreal. Kafka ESC crazy town, but you’re right. It takes its time. It takes its time and there’s a lot of buildup, but then the last half hour, like it’s just such a, a big payoff and it’s crazy.

Like, honestly, your jaw is on the floor. Like what. Happening and 

Todd: why. 

Craig: Yeah. And there’s not, it’s not that nothing happens in the first hour. Things are constantly happening and there are little hints at very strange, bizarre stuff going on, but it’s really in the. Half hour, then it smacks you in the 

Todd: face.

The movie kind of ignores the typical three-act structure in most movies. The, the problem, the core problem that we’re going to be faced be facing, and that the character has to solve is well-established a third of the way in there will be some twists and things in act two, there will be the compounding difficulties and.

But at least by the first 30 minutes of an hour and a half movie of which this is, we should have a good idea of, oh, these are the stakes, this is what’s going on. And this is not the case in this movie in the first half hour. And you’re still meeting people and there’s sort of this, it’s this reporter and she’s investigating a story, a spontaneous combustion, and you’re meeting more people and there’s some weird ladies.

Even an hour in you’re finally suddenly getting a notion of what might be happening, but nothing’s really solidified. So I thought that that was what made me so impatient about it and you’re right. Things keep happening, but they keep happening at such a slow pace. I mean, that scene for scene, the scenes are just drawn out to a ridiculous degree.

Craig: Now that you say that I see it. I didn’t know. Think about it when I was watching the movie though, because there were enough thing now to be fair, I will say that, you know, once things kind of started to happen, it was a little repetitive. Like this woman, Kim, once things kind of start happening with her, it gets a little.

Repetitive like, you know, something’s going on, but it’s kind of the same stuff for awhile, but I was never bored. There was always something going on. Gosh, before we jump into the plot, um, I told you, I said, don’t look in, look at anything. I don’t read anything. I don’t watch good because I went into it totally blind to, and I expected it to be typical.

I like, I’m pretty sure that I watched silent night, deadly night, three, which is fine. Lane doesn’t 

Todd: have a killer Santa in it. The third one. 

Craig: Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s nuts. Um, bill Mosley, I think is the killer Santa. And if I remember he’s the killer Santa from part two, but they have him in a hospital and like his brain is in like a glass dome on top of his head.

Um, but that’s what I was expecting. I was just expecting another silly slasher and this is totally different. And honestly, this all takes place at Christmas and there is some Christmas stuff going on. It’s not the most Christmasy movie. Done. I don’t care. Uh, it’s still fun, but you’re right. It doesn’t follow the typical structure in this movie.

Like the main complication happens in the first minute we see this bum who ends up being Clint, Howard, who I thought was just going to be like a cameo turns out he actually played. A big role in this movie. And I like Clint Howard, and I appreciate the Clint. Howard knows that he’s a weird looking man and embraces it and plays these nutty characters.

But even at points in this movie, There are times when he’s almost charming. Like he’s, he’s not a good guy really in this movie, but ultimately in the end, you almost kind of feel like he’s being manipulated and used to. And, um, you see a little bit of humanity in him, but he’s just, you know, just naturally as a person, he’s kind of crazy.

I. 

Todd: Yeah. He often kind of has this sort of vacant stare on his face, right? Like, like things are happening to him and around him and he’s trying to take it all in, but his brain doesn’t move fast enough. You know, it’s kinda like that, that seems to be his character in a lot of these horror 

Craig: movies. Yeah. And I’ve seen him interviewed with his brother, of course, you know, very famous director.

Ron Howard. I I’ve seen them, um, interviewed together and they’re both very charming and, you know, Clint, Howard seems like an intelligent, charming man, but he plays these, you know, off the wall characters and, and that’s what he’s doing here. Like, so we just see him. He’s a bum on the street. And he’s like eating garbage that he finds on the street and stuff, but he hears a commotion up high and he looks up and on the roof of this building, he sees a woman and she seems to be in distress, but you can’t really tell what’s going on.

You like, you hear her say no, or like, I’m not going to do it or something like that. And then she bursts into flames and falls off the building and he, and he runs away as, you know, the first responders. Show up and then you get the title credits, which I thought were really good kind of artistic and yeah.

Yeah, they were, but it, well, it was, but the imagery was imagery that recurs throughout like it’s significant imagery and I thought it was pretty good. And then the very next scene is very in keeping with the silent night, deadly night tone, where you have a attractive, naked couple. Having aggressive, 

Todd: fun, looking at

Craig: the kind of sex you have when you’re really young and in shape 

Todd: your back is still good. Yes.

Craig: And this is Hank and Kim who are our main characters. And honestly like this is the only kind of. I don’t know, like for the most part, I feel like you could sh you, anybody could show this movie on basic cable and be fine. This opening sex scene is not terribly graphic graphic. Aside from the fact that the actors are clearly nude.

Like, yeah. I don’t know how all that movie magic works. I know there are. Sox and 

Todd: other little barriers for, yeah. 

Craig: But seriously, when I see this type of thing, I just don’t understand how actors do it. Like, I can’t imagine it’s very impressing that naked and like, they are literally joined at the pelvis.

For this whole scene. I don’t know. I don’t think I could do it anyways. So they’re, they’re banging in a motel and they see a report on this dead woman. And it turns out that they both work at a newspaper and Kim is low on the ladder. She does like the calendar and she does the classifieds, the classifieds.

But she wants to do this story, but as soon as she brings it up to her editor, Eli played by Reggie Bannister. Um, he just totally disregards her. This would make a great story on Tania’s combustion. Yeah. This sort of thing has been documented. It’s kind of bizarre. Some good material there. Maybe we should do something.

I was thinking, Hey, why don’t you jump on it? I, it could be a lead on. For peace, you know, like, uh, incredible unexplained mysteries, you know,

bullshit Kim, uh, classifies. Um, if you got them posted today. Yes. Good, good, good job. Come on and go. Listen, I’ve been working real hard around, I haven’t seen her anybody in work. Their first month

maybe. Um, could you make some fresh coffee, please? It’s supposed to be like commentary on sexism in the workplace and, and the whole movie kind of has that undercurrent of that social message 

Todd: you say is it’s kind of heavy handed in a very amateurish way. Like the dialogue in this. Pretty bad. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s all right on the nose to the point.

None of it’s very clever, fairly economical. Hank is also discouraging her. He’s like, ah, no, probably not. And then they’re supposed to have this relationship, but he doesn’t really care at this point that right in front of him. The story that she wanted, he was given and he didn’t even fight about it and just was like, okay, well, you know, and then the boss comes out right at the end.

I was like, oh, by the way, can you get me some coffee? You know? I mean, there’s this, this is so typical. Okay. We get it. She’s the woman she’s feeling. Oppressed and, and, you know, feminism, you know, I think Mariah is trying this and don’t get me wrong. That’s great. I appreciate that. Um, it’s a good message, but it’s all very, ham-fisted.

Craig: It is. It’s very, heavy-handed again, like you said, not to say that these aren’t real issues that women face and have faced for a very long time, but it is very heavy handed, but I do think the movie is trying very hard to break. A feminist agenda. Again, not that there’s anything wrong with that, but it does seem like.

Poorly well on the other, I don’t ha I honestly, I didn’t expect this to be a good movie, so I didn’t have any high expectations, but they really cast the lead. Kim, nice hunter is her name and she really didn’t do a lot. And I’m really not surprised because though she’s very beautiful. She is not a very good actress as the lead.

She’s probably the weakest at. In the movie. And I thought that her performance got better as the movie went on and comparatively, you know, if we look at other movies that we’ve reviewed, she could win awards for this, from some of the performances that we’ve seen. I don’t know, she’s just a little wet behind the ears, I think, whatever.

Anyway, so a Janice, Alice Beasley works in the office. I’m not sure what she does. She’s sitting at a desk. I don’t know. She gives Kim a lead and tells her, uh, what street all this happened on. So Kim goes to the scene and starts asking questions and she talks to a butcher and the butcher. I mean, yeah. Do you want to talk about the butcher 

Todd: he’s he’s like, uh, he supposed to, I don’t know.

I don’t, I don’t know if they were going for comedy. Some of it was supposed to be comedy. Some of it’s just roll your eyes. I mean, it’s not as bad as Mickey Rooney in breakfast at Tiffany’s cause this guy actually is Chinese. Right. But he’s this big overweight Chinese butcher coming out of a shop and he speaks, he clearly is.

Chinese American like speaks perfect English probably, but he’s being forced to effect a fake broken English accent. It’s so fake that it just made me roll. You see 

Craig: what happened last night? The girl who jumped, did you see that? And I’d help, but see it live upstairs too much. Noise sirens, police, reporter

scorch, real good, nothing 

Todd: left. And the whole time he’s chatting with her. And the same time she’s trying to get peanuts. One of the little peanut dispensers, which she says no work at the same time, he’s chatting with her. He bangs the peanut dispenser a little bit, gets a bunch of these peanuts out in his hands, which are grubby and absolutely covered with blood.

Like, okay, this is how butchers are. Right. They just walk around all day with blood all over their hands, all over their shirt and everything. Right. And then hands those blood, those peanuts over to her. And that was. Cute and funny, 

Craig: but, well, it’s funny, like he he’s barely worth mentioning, but, and again, you know, spoilers galore, but he does come in later.

One of the things that I like about this movie is that ultimately. Everybody’s in on it. 

Todd: I thought you were going to say it it’s subverts your expectations and every seat, 

Craig: I don’t know about that, but like I, and it’s not even like that they play major roles, but really pretty much everybody, she meets outside of her own circle.

And even some of the people in her own circle know what’s going on. And are actively part of it. And this, this book. Ultimately is 

Todd: which worked for society, because that was kind of the point of the movie for this film. It it’s just dumb. I don’t know. I thought it was funny. Well, it’s funny, but I mean, it’s like, well, I guess they could only afford to get the actors who are going to have significant roles right there.

Aren’t many extras in here. It’s a very small cast. And, and the other thing about the movie. Which is another reason why stylistically it’s so close to society. And I think this is how Brian using a tends to direct his movies anyway, is that the whole film is lit almost like a television sitcom. It’s very brightly lit all the indoor scenes and outdoor scenes.

There’s a backlight kind of glowing around the back edge of their hair. And I mean, Everything is starkly lit very beautifully, not at all, what you typically see in a horror movie. So it kind of adds to the unreal nature of it a little bit, but also kind of makes it look very fake and movie like yeah, the movie very much takes place in like New York, I think is it’s supposed to be New York city.

It’s kind of all very urban. Urban generic city setting. We get on rooftops and we’re down busy city streets and, uh, in the PA you know, the central park type area and whatnot, but it doesn’t have a gritty feeling to it at all. It almost feels like. The city shot as the suburbs 

Craig: kind of. Yeah. And it’s all, it’s all, it’s, it’s mostly very bright.

It mostly happens during the day or in well lit areas. Yeah, it’s true. I mean, there is some stuff later that takes place in interiors that has some interesting lighting, but most of it, my favorite part about this is when she’s doing her investigation, she walks by the scene and the chalk outline of the.

It’s still there, but like they didn’t even finish the chalk outline because the lower half of her body had like burned the sidewalk. So there was like an Ash outline for the bottom half. Like they didn’t even bother with the oh God call areas. And so she runs into, she goes into this bookstore that I guess is where.

You know, right outside where this woman jumped or whatever. And she runs into that bum Ricky, and he wiped something on her coat. Like, I didn’t know, like if he was wiping a booger or if he was marking 

Todd: her or something. Yeah. He touched a body earlier. Cause the body, you know, when the Bharti body was, was burning up, he kind of touched it and got burned and seemed.

Surprised by that. For some reason, I don’t know. It seemed like it was the same Ash or whatever on his fingertips that he was smearing on her, but I don’t 

Craig: know. So it was weird, but she freaked, she freaks out and then she meets a FEMA. The bookstore owner who’s played by Maude Adams who was Octopussy and.

Again, this woman is middle-aged at this point later, middle-aged probably still strikingly 

Todd: beautiful, but looks like a former supermodel. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It looks like a former bond girl, so it looks great. She owns it. She’s a little older. She owns the books. She has a, like a huge bowl of like figs or dates on her counter.

And she gives Kim one and Ken’s like, oh yes, thank you. I didn’t have any breakfast or something. And then like Kim spits the pit out into her hand and the woman’s like, oh, let me get that. Like, it’s just so dot. 

Todd: But, and it’s like, we concentrate on this to the point where I thought it would might be significant.

And I guess maybe 

Craig: kind of is, I think there’s kind of a suggestion that the dates are drugged or like magically infused because after this Kim starts feeling kind of woozy and lightheaded, but. This woman just offer these to all of her customers here have one of my magical 

Todd: acid dates. Yeah,

she has. And she doesn’t just have one bowl. She has three bowls of these white guys to each other on the counter. I wasn’t 

Craig: sure. And she acts weird from the beginning. Like. Forces like Kim wants to buy a book on an explained phenomenon because of the spontaneous combustion or whatever. But this woman, FEMA forces her to take another book.

That’s titled Trichy aviation of the Virgin goddess and, and they’ve just met. And she invites her to a picnic and kisses her and like Kim doesn’t even like, act like 

Todd: this is weird. No, I thought, oh God, is this, are they gonna make out? Because Kim’s kind of looking at her and she’s got like a Glint gleam in her eye.

And that’s when I was like, okay, well the dates must. There must be like some effects from the dates or something. I don’t know. But then Kim goes to the rooftop, right. And goes though, I mean, part of her investigation, it’s so cute, right? Like what the police didn’t look at any of this and like, you’re going to find anything up there.

You know, she walks over to the edge and she’s stupidly stands on the edge of the roof. I don’t know. She’s trying to get into the mind of the purse. I don’t know how this helps the news reporter get to the bottom of the story, 

Craig: but anyway, really, since she’s clearly feeling dizzy, maybe don’t step up onto the ledge of the building when you’re out to pass out.

Todd: But then Ricky is up there too. And I guess we later find out he kind of maybe lives up there cause there’s like a tent with some things in it and a guy character mix. But anyway, he’s up there too. And he kind of walks around with her for a little bit and you know, it’s just so awkward because normal people in a situation like this, she just gets off the roof.

She’s kind of dizzy. Weird guy who has been weird to her downstairs is suddenly has followed her up there. She be getting the hell out. Right. She’d be freaked out, but she’s not really, she just kind of. Looks at them and kind of backs up while he goes to the vent pipe. That’s sticking up on the roof, reaches inside.

There are a whole bunch of bugs on his hand and on his head, all of a sudden. And suddenly she has bugs on her hand that she pushes off and he pulls out this long slug, like 

Craig: creature. I call it that slug too, but it’s not. Cause it’s got, it’s got like, it’s more like, yeah, it has legs. And later you see it.

It’s kind of. T it’s gross and it’s enormous clicking, right? 

Todd: I think actually, cause cause um, those, the SQL this one silent night, deadly night, five, the toy maker or whatever, I swear it’s the same slug. Right? There’s like a, except as a toy. Yeah, we version of this same thing and, and it’s, it’s, it’s actually, I think using it had something to do with that and definitely screaming, mad, George, the did the special effects for that one too.

Anyway. Yeah. He just should shoves this in her face and in our face as the camera and we’re all supposed to go, Ooh, gross. What the hell? And then she leaves 

Craig: and goes back to her apartment, which is all of a sudden. Infested with bugs. This is also random. Like eventually there’s kind of explanations for all of this, but it just feels so random.

Y all of a sudden now are there bugs everywhere? It’s weird. So she initially is going, she’s supposed to go over to Hanks parent’s house for like a Christmas dinner. And initially she’s going to stand them up. The bugs are all over her apartment. She’s looking at the weird book. The lady gave her. And one of the pages of the book has a spiral and it says that the spiral is the symbol of women’s power.

And she does, she looks at the spaghetti that she’s made and it’s, you know, shaped in a spiral and there’s bugs everywhere. And so I guess, because there’s bugs in her dinner, she goes, she decides to go, um, to hangs parents. And then there’s a really weird scene of her at Hanks parents’ house. And I mean, I guess it’s just exposition for later, but we meet Hanks.

Got a little brother. Who’s a CA I mean, Hank is a grown man, but his little brother is probably supposed to be like, I dunno, 12, 13, little brother. So weird little brother is played by a useless, I assume. I don’t know, they have the same last name. So I assume they’re related to something maybe who knows.

And yeah, well, I mean, he’s a kid and he’s a kid actor and he’s fine. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do cute kid whatever. And then like, again, Hammering a nail. The dad goes off on this big sexist. Well, I think a woman’s place is in the home raising a family, you know, woman was made from the rib of man. I, I think that’s in your Bible too.

Dad, that’s a myth. It’s an allegory. It’s all relative. You know, that’s the trouble with you kids today, you know, you think everything is relative. Well, let me tell you something about. It is God damned real and you had better believe it. Nobody cares. Right. And, uh, Kim Lee, I mean, she’s polite that she eventually finds a way to get out of there and they go.

And she’s pissed at him because he didn’t stand up for her for the story that she wanted. And like, they kind of start kissing and he starts pulling it, like putting his hand up, her skirt, like right there in the street, right there, 

Todd: outside in front of the house, in front of his 

Craig: parents’ house, like rose calm down.

And, and she gets mad at him, but like, she’s like, why are you always trying to get on top of me? Which, you know, it looked like they had good sex. And apparently like later. What’s her name? The weird lady FEMA says out of the blue is like your boyfriend, Hank. I bet you guys have really good sex. Right. And she’s like, yeah.

Okay. But still, are you going to Mount me in the street right outside your parents’ house? Like cool off. So she gets pissed and she goes back home and she looks at the book more and she sees something about. The fire of Lilith and she sees an image, just a drawing of a woman who is. On fire from like the waist down.

Yeah. It’s 

Todd: very evocative of, I mean, it, one thing about this body that we saw, this mannequin that we saw charring, you know, burning on the ground in the very beginning of the movie is that the did seem to be a lot of fire on the bottom half. Right? Like her, her stomach, her way seemed to be kind of gutted by the fire.

So I still don’t really get that. I don’t get any of that. No. I mean, You’d only gets 

Craig: weirder. It doesn’t only get rid of, I do understand the story. I mean, right after that, there’s an enormous like dog sized cockroach under her bed. And she’s like chasing it around, tearing up her apartment does. I mean, it seems freaked out.

Like there’s a bug, but not as freaked out as I would be. If there was a dog sized cockroach running around my house, it’s 

Todd: kind of like, Her friend comes over, right. 

Craig: Checks on her in the morning, Janice. Yeah. Cause she didn’t go to 

Todd: work and you know, she kind of walks in, oh man, these scenes are just so awkward.

Cause there’s just so much standing around staring. She just kind of walks in and kind of helps her flip things over. And um, the 

Craig: whole, yeah, the whole apartment is destroyed. But like what? I don’t know what Kim says. She’s like, oh, it must’ve been something I ate. It must’ve been something you ate your entire apartment.

Janice doesn’t even 

Todd: bad night starts 

Craig: writing furniture like loud. Okay. Kim goes to FEMA’s picnic, where she’s introduced to a couple of other ladies, this old lady, Catherine, who describes herself as an old crone. Um, and then this other girl, Jane, um, and they start talking about the woman who died. And Kim is like, I wonder what happened to her.

And Jane says she wasn’t strong. FEMA tells Kim the story of Lilith, which I believe is a true story of Hebrew tradition. She was Adam’s first wife. She was made from the same dirt, but she wouldn’t lay on top of her. She left Adam consorted with power of night. She was the serpent that tempted Eve spirit of all the pros.

So that explains all the creepy crawly bugs and stuff. I noticed this time. I don’t think I noticed last time, but did you notice that FEMA had that spiral on her? 

Todd: Yeah, I did. I was surprised the other two did. I was expecting them to be like wearing uniforms. 

Craig: Yeah. Right. Cause I mean, 

Todd: it’s pretty clear, you know, that these three women are kind of like, they’ve got some kind of odd women’s group, but, but we’re watching a horror movie.

So we know it’s a cult of some kind. I 

Craig: just automatically assumed that it was some sort of. Um, and I guess in a way it kind of is, I mean, they never explicitly refer to themselves as witches, but they are a congregation of women who do these weird things. So I think coven is fitting. 

Todd: At this point, Hank finds her.

He just shows up, Hey, I found you, uh, I’m going to, and 

Craig: he, after, after FEMA kisses her on the mouth. Oh yeah, yeah. 

Todd: Weird. I wondered if they had drugged the wine cause she kind of laid back down and then Hank immediately shows up. It’s like, Hey, why weren’t you at work? I’m taking you back. So he brings her into work.

And now the boss, instead of being pissed off that she’s gone suddenly. It’s like, all right, well, you know what, I’ll go ahead and give this story to you after. 

Craig: Well, you can work with Hank on it and 

Todd: then kind of turns around and says, no, I’ll just let you take the lead. Right. He’s going to follow around as the photographers.

Yeah. They go bright back again to the street to take more pictures and look around, like, you know, if you’re going to be an investigative reporter, you need to kind of start going beyond the scene of the crime. Maybe talk to some more people 

Craig: and they go back to the roof and. We get aerial shots. So we see that that spiral.

Is, I don’t know if it’s painted or edge, whatever it’s on the floor of the roof, but they never say anything about it. I wonder if they even notice because like, it’s, it’s obvious, like it’s painfully obvious that this is like set up for some sort of ritual or something, but they never say anything. Like, I don’t even know if they notice that it’s there.

Yeah, but they reconcile. And after that Kim visits FEMA’s apartment and FEMA right in front of Kim. Like she doesn’t hide it at all. She puts something in her tea and then she just has this weird ass dialogue where she’s like, You remind me so much of my daughter, her name was Lily. No matter what I tried, you always resisted me, always ended up fighting, and then I bet you and Hank have great sex yet.

When it’s over, you feel like something is missing. You have to get rid of the parasitic power of men to reclaim your own power. Who are you and what are you talking 

Todd: about? Random jumble of ideas coming out of your mouth one right after the other it’s no. And Kim 

Craig: just never, like, she never acts like there’s anything weird going on.

Every time she’s around this woman, the woman gives her something to eat or drink that immediately makes her. But I guess it’s just a 

Todd: coincidence. And then she gives her a date. She’s like, oh, you’re feeling lightheaded, eat one of these. That’ll make you feel better. And she’s like, no, I really don’t want to.

She was like, no, no, you should eat it. Frankly forces her on it. She looks at it in her hand. Apparently either it looks like it to her, or it has actually changed into a cockroach and she eats it. 

Craig: Yeah. And FEMA’s like eight, eight. I thought she 

Todd: was going to, I thought she was going to like throw it across the room and discussed, but no, she just it’s like, oh, it’s a cockroach.

Nevermind. I’ll chop down on this sucker. 

Craig: And she does. And it crunches, like you hear it crunch. Yeah. And then, okay. So she continues to feel sick and she passes out and then she’s having weird visions and they’re like women standing over her, the women from the picnic are there, but there are also other women that we’ve never met before.

And they undress her and they mark her with like Ash and they draw that spiral on her stomach. Ricky is there. And he has one of those big gross slug things, and he puts it on her abdomen and then covers her up with a blanket. I was trying to do research there’s, there’s not a whole lot to read about this.

There are some interesting things that you can find, but not a whole lot, but just in reading the summer. I was reading a summary. It says, Ricky puts that slug on her abdomen and then they cover it up. And then it goes in her vagina.

Not what I, it’s not what I thought at all. I thought that it had crawled in through 

Todd: her Naval. And under her skin and up, and then, and then what they’re like yellow, she says to her, FEMA says to her, you have to cough it up. You have to spit out the, your fear, your fear, like what your fear of what your fear of men, your fear of, of being oppressed by men.

Like I didn’t get any of this shit. It’s it just plays like a very, very low rent Rosemary’s baby. It does, especially because it’s surreal without any surreal quality to the filmmaking whatsoever. It’s still being filmed like a fricking sit-com. I mean, the lights are a little are like now a little bluer and, and redder, but it’s still very well lit and just very matter of factly 

Craig: framed.

I will say my skin crawl because you see that thing crawling around under her skin. X look pretty good, but then she barfs it up. And like when she barfs it up, it’s twice the size that it was before. It’s huge. And they said they sacrifice a rat over her and drip, the blood all over her abdomen. But then Ricky takes the thing that she barfed up and he cuts it in half and now like, okay, this is a feminist movie, but.

Then Ricky uses that thing to just spook all over her face and yeah. And it looks like she’s really into it.

Todd: It. I mean, to be fair, it’s like 

Craig: honey, and it just, it looked like VAT, not vastly lube, like patrolling, it looks like loop. Yeah. All over. 

Todd: Well also a bunch of Milky liquid comes out of her vagina. Before that’s 

Craig: later that’s later. Cause they get her again. Yeah. I mean she waits, she wakes up, she’s fully clothed.

She’s alone for a minute, but then the women all come back and she’s like, what do you want from me? And FEMA’s like, I want my daughter back. And she runs away. She goes home. She finds Hank asleep in a long night shirt. Like he’s in like the night before Christmas, 

Todd: like it’s the 1940s. 

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know.

This part was very confusing. Like she’s mad at him for some reason. Fight and she’s acting really weird, but then all of a sudden it’s like, she comes back to her senses, but then she’s acting really strangely seductive. And she’s like, I like to touch you in your sleeping make you hard, like okay. 

Todd: But he just does nice.

Eventually just kind of submits to it. 

Craig: Yeah. And they they’re both. I mean, they’re, she’s rubbing all up on him. They’re laying in. And Ricky comes in and watches them for a little while. They’re totally oblivious. And then he sits down on the bed and turns the TV on. And what he’s watching on the TV is silent night, deadly night, three, and he’s crap like he’s laughing and he’s like killer Santa Claus.

But when they realize he’s there, they freak out. Hank tries to fight. But ends up getting killed, but it doesn’t seem like Ricky had any intention of killing Hank. He was just there to get her and Hank got in the way and was like beating on him. Fought back violently and ended up killing him. Eventually Janice, the friend calls and Kim is able to answer the phone long enough to say, call the police.

I’m being attacked. Well, then Janice shows up and it turns out she’s in on it. She tells Ricky to take Kim back to FEMA and she’ll stay there and clean everything up. And so that’s what happens. And that’s when we that’s, when. We get into just the crazy, crazy, and like, like it’s not already been crazy at this point.

It’s just amps it up to 

Todd: it’s crazy and baffling. And I love here. How Jay, all Janice has to do is say to Kim. Oh, don’t worry. Everything’s going to be okay. You just go to Rick and suddenly Kim is cool with all this. I just say, okay. Oh, okay. Nevermind. Nevermind. The guy who just killed my boyfriend and chased me all over the apartment with.

You say he’s cool. No problem. Ricky throws 

Craig: her in a meat locker, which ends up being the butcher’s meat locker from when we saw before, oh boy, she goes to sleep and she wakes up being prepared. By these women. Then I had forgotten this part and you know how I feel about sexual assault and movies. I don’t like it in this movie.

Like everything is so weird. Like, I don’t know. It almost just didn’t even seem real. Ricky is apparently naked except for they put this huge fat. Mask on him. 

Todd: I know. And I was like, oh God, please don’t tell me, he’s going to, I know with this 

Craig: long nose. Yeah, it was disgusting. And, and Janice is there and it’s a ceremony.

And somebody says to her, it’s not easy to give birth to yourself. And then Ricky rapes are, and it is uncomfortable to watch, but the way it’s shot, it’s not terribly gratuitous. You don’t see anything below shoulder level, but. Happening, but it’s just so surreal, especially with Clint Howard, like his 

Todd: ass thrusting her.

Yeah. I didn’t need to see that. Yeah. 

Craig: Oh yeah. I guess you do see that. I forgot about that. So when that’s all over, she wakes up naked on the floor alone, and then all of a sudden. I still don’t know if this is actually happening. I think it is actually happening, but in the moment, I didn’t know if it was really happening or if she was hallucinating, her body starts contorting society style.

If you haven’t seen society, you don’t know what I mean, but like the body is just. Melding. And 

Todd: so yeah, her fingers start, she holds her hands up at her fingers, start going at all crazy different directions, which was actually really cool effect and pretty creepy. And then they like wrap up into themselves, like joined together and then her legs.

I don’t know if she becomes kind of this weird ass, um, mermaid for a minute and her feet are, are flipping backwards and everything’s bending on naturally and kind of melding together. And then it all kind of gets interrupted by the, uh, the butcher, right. He just suddenly storms in and you’re like, oh, okay.

He’s part of it as well. And, uh, all of that kind of stops. What does he say to her? 

Craig: Well, he says you have been initiated. You go now. And, and so she immediately goes to the bookstore, like these are the women that just did this to you. And she’s like, Ah, I think I must be hallucinating lady. And then when they tell her she’s not, she’s like, wait, does that mean Hanks?

Really dead? They’re like, oh, Hanks, just a man who cares. She’s not freaking out like freak out 

Todd: lady. She calls a detective to the, to the apartment and the detective is like, oh, there’s a crazy woman again, because everything is spotless. Everything’s been completely 

Craig: cleaned up. And we find out that the jumper.

From the beginning was FEMA’s daughter and FEMA says, you’ve come to take her place, blah, blah, blah. Alright, whatever Kim is confused and sad about Hank, and then they, the women tell her that for the final part of her initiation, she has to sacrifice a man. I don’t know. It has something to do with her fear.

And then they’re like, Didn’t Hank have a brother and she’s like Loni and they’re like, yeah, go get it.

But after she can’t convince the cop that anything’s going on, she runs out of her house I guess. And she sees Ricky waiting for her. So she runs to a motel and like sneaks in a room that a made left, open, and she’s hiding from him. But then she sees kin or. On the TV. Like you have to do it, you have to make the sacrifice.

And then there’s more weird body contortion stuff. And her feet start to burn, like, like she’s catching on fire. So she goes and jumps in the shower and Ricky comes in and he’s like, you have to do what she says, and then you’ll be okay. And she’s like, okay, fine. I’ll do it. I’ll do it. So Ricky drives her.

Kidnapper van to Hanks’ parents’ house to get Lonnie. And this part bothered me. Like I get why they did it, you know, it’s it’s silent night, deadly night. Okay. But she lures Lonnie out. They have. Done like great. Go on sacrificing. And instead Ricky goes into the house and strangles the parents with Christmas lights and sets the house on fire.

Yeah. So there. And so they end up back on the rooftop of the bookstore and they’re doing this ceremony and Lonnie is crying and begging, I thought this kid did a good job, a great job. He’s got a very limited role, but like, I felt bad for him. He doesn’t have any idea what’s going on. And then there are tons of those giant slugs around for unexplained reasons.

And the women are all like they hand Kim and I, and they’re like doing. But instead of stabbing Lonnie, instead she stabs a few. And untied Lonnie and tells him to run. And then FEMA starts to go after Kim, but Ricky gets in between them and, and says, no, you don’t hurt her. And so FEMA stabs him and he falls 

Todd: into the slug pit or something.

The slug suddenly there are tons of sludge of these giant slugs who were started just eating away. The stomach 

Craig: and then her hands fuse together. Kim’s hands fuse together again. And she starts to burn like her hands start to burn, but she takes her fuse together hands and plunges them into FEMA’s wound.

And FEMA burst into flames and jumps off the roof. And the plot summary I read, it said apparently thrusting that fire into FEMA transferred the curse of Lilith to. All right, whatever. She, she starts burning. Kim stops, burning. She falls off, and then there’s all the other women are just standing around.

Like they don’t know what to do. Like not angry, not upset, just. Uh, huh? 

Todd: Well, that happened. I mean, they’re pretty much standards for the audience at this point. I didn’t know what’s going on either. And that’s, that’s it right? The movie’s done well, except 

Craig: for, except for Kim walks over to Lani who she’s just kidding.

And they embrace and she says, don’t worry. It’s all over now. Your entire family is dead, but it’s fine.

I’ll be your mother now. 

Todd: So pick this apart for me. What does it mean? I still am completely lost. They did some ceremony on FEMA’s daughter. For some reason and she wasn’t strong enough to take it. So she ended up bursting into flames and falling off the roof. So now that FEMA’s, without a daughter, she needs a new person to somehow take her daughter’s place in some way, shape or form.

So they’ve chosen Kim for that. And that involve. Raping her and sticking slugs in her and telling her that she’s got to get something out of her. Some, the fear of man or the fear of, I don’t know what some kind of fear and to complete this, this, so she’s being initiated into what I’m not sure. Her daughter Innes.

And then her final step is that she has to murder a man, but her boyfriend wasn’t good enough. I mean, they did kill him. But I guess they’ve got a, 

Craig: I think she has to do 

Todd: it. She asked to, he’s got to stab him. And then what would happen? Would she like transform into this woman’s daughter? 

Craig: That part I’m not entirely sure that the, we did get a little bit of exposition about halfway through the movie where FEMA tells Kim that she and her daughter were estranged for a long time.

But then when the girl was an adult, they reconnected. And the way that I understood it was FEMA was trying to get her daughter into this coven that she was already. FEMA was already in. And I imagine that in order to do that, the daughter, Lily Lilith had to do the same ritual that they’re trying to get Kim to 

Todd: do.

Oh. And she wasn’t strong enough to stab 

Craig: well, they, they sit right. They say she wasn’t strong enough, but I imagine it was the same thing. Just like Kim. She didn’t want to kill somebody and that’s why she burst into flame and fell off. And so, yes, I think that FEMA was trying to replace her. What I don’t really understand is would Lilith spirit like come into Kim?

Cause that seemed like that was kind of suggested in that weird apartment scene with her and Hank when they were fighting. But ultimately I don’t understand that 

Todd: understand the thematic point. We’re trying to make, like we said earlier, you really got hit over the head with these sorta. Surface feminist ham-fisted feminist ideas of ma women’s role and trying to break free of man’s grip on them and control.

But I don’t really see how that played out in the whole notion of their, their little covet. Ritual. It was all very personal, just FEMA’s daughter kind of. 

Craig: I also, I gosh, every time, not every time, but a lot of times when we record these podcasts, I’m very much aware of the fact that we’re recording this and we’re going to put it out in the world.

And I want to make sure that people understand us. I think that you and I would both. Identify as feminists. We both love women. We both respect women. We both think that women deserve everything that men deserve. And more so when we say ham-fisted feminist stuff, 

Todd: we’re talking about the quality of the filmmaker, the skill of the writer.

I mean, these topics deserve better treatment. Then they’re getting here, you know, I mean, it’s clear to us that there’s, there’s the writer and producer of this film is attempting to make some kind of message along these lines, but it’s impossible for us to unpack it really, I think. Right. So it’s very, it’s very ineffective in that way.

I think it kind of falls flat. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as, as a message, you know, as a movie with a message. Work. Um, but 

Todd: it’s, it’s a wackadoodle ride. 

Craig: It is. It is. I’m just fascinated by it. Society ultimately is a better and even weirder. Yeah. 

Todd: Yes. But it’s more cohesive in, in, in its theme too. It’s just, it’s batshit crazy, but all in a great way.

I mean, 

Craig: but see, that’s a message movie too, that movie’s all about materialism and. Classism and all that stuff, but it does, it, it works better and it’s even crazier than this. But like I said, they’re basically spiritual siblings. I mean, there are so many similarities. And like I said, from the beginning, this is not a good movie, but.

I can’t. I really like, I don’t know. I mean, maybe now we we’ve, maybe now we’ve talked about it enough to tell that you really don’t need to, but I would encourage people who I know are horror fans to watch this. Cause I just think it’s it’s out there. It’s crazy. It’s uh, it’s, it’s an outlier. I understand that silent night, deadly night, five.

Was a little bit different too, but at least there, you know, Mickey Rooney in a Santa suit, trying to kill people by the end of the movie, you don’t get any of that. I mean, Christmas is secondary. This really 

isn’t 

Todd: much of a Christmas movie. It’s not going to put you in the holiday spirit. The movie we reviewed last week, don’t open till Christmas.

Had Christmas spirit throughout it, their Christmas trees and Christmas decorations and carols and things throughout the whole movie. Um, but it wasn’t nearly as entertaining, right. Oddly entertaining to watch. And I would, I would kind of preface, I would kind of tack onto what you said if you’re in doing.

Goofy horror, not the kind of horror that’s going to scare you right then. Yeah. This you’re going to love it. You’re going to love it better than don’t open till Christmas, which was just dumb. 

Craig: I was excited to watch it again, and I was excited to talk about it and I’m glad. That we did. Yeah. Thanks. Anyway, we still got a couple of holiday movies on the way.

I think, you know, we’ve got some ideas, but uh, if you want to get in touch with us here in the next week or so, and, and uh, if you give us a suggestion that trumps the things that we, uh, already have in mind, We are not at all opposed to changing our plans. We change our plans at the last minute all the time.

So, uh, shoot us a message. Let us know if you’ve seen this movie and you want to talk about it. Uh, leave a message on our Facebook page or. As always, you know, we love to spread the love and we hope that you do too. So if you want to share this with, uh, your friends, let them know. Um, if you enjoy the podcast, maybe they will too.

You can find this everywhere. You can find podcasts, Google it, Google it, Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast. You’ll find this all. So we’ll be back next week with another holiday movie. But until then I’m Craig, and I’m Todd, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Are you ready for some Christmas turkey?

This film by the producers of Pieces did not charm us in the same “so-bad-it’s-good” kind of way that their previous outing did. What we have here is a mess of a movie, with such bad acting, editing, writing, and a nonsensical plot that we can hardly recommend watching it. So instead, just listen to us rip it open like a package under the tree.

Episode 279, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we’re getting into my second favorite time of year here, Craig Christmas season. I don’t know. It’s a close second.

Craig: It’s a very close second 

Todd: with Christmas season comes, uh, our nerdy pastime of finding Christmas horror movies to do this time. This being our first week, this month, I found a very Christmasy movie that we haven’t done yet, even though.

It’s from 1984, it’s a slasher film called Don’t Open Till Christmas, from the producers of Pieces. That alone sold me on it. I know don’t get me wrong. I wasn’t expecting this to be a good movie and it is an absolute mess, but, um, I have really, really fond memories of our time. Discussing pieces. Pieces was kind of a fun movie.

I remember it being kind of dumb, really dumb, poorly acted, but poorly acted in a really fun way. And I had some beautiful girls in it, some incredibly great kills. There was a Kung Fu ninja guy in, at one point it was kind of nuts. So I was looking for the same level of fun when we opened up this movie.

And I’m sorry to say, I’m not sure I had as much fun this time around. 

Craig: No, this is a steaming turd of a movie. It’s like it is or a ball. It seem worse. I don’t know if you were going to say we’ve seen worse. The, that might be a true, but there’s this constant. Yeah. Real, real bad. What, what, what makes it even worse though?

Is that, uh, I was celebrating Thanksgiving. With my family this weekend. And so I didn’t have time to, like, I started watching it and then I had to go do family stuff. So I had to get up like, especially early to finish this this morning, 

Todd: no way. So, so sorry. I dragged 

Craig: myself out of bed at like seven 30 this morning to finish this.

Horrible movie. 

Todd: I’m surprised you didn’t fall back asleep. 

Craig: I wanted to, and I will immediately after we’re done talking about it, which I imagine will be in 10 minutes because I can’t imagine what we’re going to say. It’s 

Todd: horrible. I took three pages of notes. And I’m so glad I did, because I’m not sure that this plot could be recounted without notes because it made no sense.

Craig: It made no sense, like to even call it a plot is a misnomer. Like it really is just now to be fair. Lots of Christmas. Cause 

Todd: there’s yes. 

Craig: It’s a slasher movie about a slasher who kills people in Santa’s suits for an entirely nebulous reason that is only revealed at the end. And it’s so stupid. There are, I don’t know, like, I guess there are main characters, I guess, but like I go to say, it’s 

Todd: so bad.

At times the movie felt like two or three movies kind of stuck together. There were entire tonal shifts where you’re like, what, what is the setting? What is going on here? And I think that’s probably because, well, a, because it’s just a lousy movie poorly written and everything like that, but. I guess the film actually took according to IMDBs trivia page about two years to complete because the original director, admin Purdum, who stars in this movie by the way, quit.

And another guy named Derek Ford took up. But he was fired after a couple of days, then the distributors hired someone else to complete it. And another guy to rewrite parts of the script. And then a lot of the footage ended up being refilled. And then apparently Edwin Purdum came in at the very end somehow to finish it up, I guess, two years later.

And he only agreed to star in the. On the stipulation that he also directed and God, uh, did he ever direct anything after this? I’m not 

Craig: sure. No, this is it. This is the only thing ever directed. Thank God. Like, honestly, it just felt like, I don’t know. I think I watched the trailer and it’s like the trailer referenced Friday the 13th.

So I feel like they were just kind of trying to go, like, they’re like, okay, Christmas. Um, Santa. Okay. So let’s shoot a whole bunch of scenes of guys dressed up as Santa is getting killed and all of the Santas, most of them anyway, have to be like street hobo, drunken, bums, 

Todd: drunken. SANAS yes. Every one of them is drunk and stumbling around confused, and we’ll 

Craig: just, we’ll just slaughter all of them.

Let’s let’s just shoot all that. And then. Maybe we’ll kind of try to like piece of story around it. Maybe if we get around to it and 

Todd: it’s stupid, it’s too reminiscent of the worst movie we’ve ever seen in my book. Don’t go into the woods where. We know, they just went out and shot a bunch of killing scenes that were random with random people.

Uh, and then kind of formed a movie around that. Whereas at least in this case, all of the people murdered her in Santa costumes. Probably the same Santa cost might even be the same guy, drunkenly stumbling around every single time 

Craig: possible. It’s possible. Any different? Uh, like I had never heard of this movie.

I mean, obviously the title don’t open till Christmas. Like, you know, it’s not like that’s an unfamiliar phrase, so I had no expectations going in, but it even I could tell from the trailer, like it was very, the video quality was bad. It was really dark and I don’t know, watching the movie now. Okay. So the, uh, the cut that you sent me was from YouTube and it ran for an hour and 22 minutes on IMDV.

It says it’s an hour and 26 minutes long. So maybe this is maybe we lost something and the editing did seem really bad. So maybe this is. Some kind of fan cut or something. I don’t know, but like the editing, the editing was just awful. Like, it just would cut from like a scene would be happening and it would be like the height of a scene and there would be like crazy music and then it would just cut to like an exposition scene and like the music would just cut.

Everything would just, it was just a sharp cut and. Oh, I mean, it just felt cut and pasted together and the characters didn’t even make any sense. And pretty much everybody ended up being entirely inconsequential. And there, the ties between the characters were super tenuous and the characters had no character like who are these people?

Todd: The big reveal at the end was. Ridiculous. And I got to the bottom. So I noticed that, yeah, obviously the, the editing was bad, but I also had the suspicion that there were parts where the editing was so bad that we were actually watching a version that had been censored because in particular scenes, I thought the deaths, most of the death scenes and in what were nude scenes, the editing was supremely jumpy.

So I got to the bottom of this and I actually. I think the full version on another site. And it turns out that the version we watched on YouTube for the death scenes and the nude scenes were cut. So. That explains the utter jump cuts that you see. Like, for example, when they go over to the photographer’s place and he’s photographing that girl, there’s at least three of those four minutes are cut from that scene alone.

And it’s just her being nude while he’s talking. Just total, total exploitation stuff. Yeah. But all the other poor editing is just the way it is. It matched everything else. Just the same. The editing was better than maybe you and I originally thought, but not much better. It certainly didn’t help make the story any more coherent.

That’s what. By seeing the uncensored version. Well, 

Craig: yeah, I mean, we’ll, I’m sure we’ll talk about the plot, so we’ll get to that scene. But like, even that scene, everything is so random. Like all of a sudden, all of a sudden we’re just like on like a soft core porn set for no reason. Uh it’s so like it opens up.

Okay. So like there’s like a heavy breather POV. Of somebody like stocking some drunk in a Santa suit. And this drunken, a Santa suit meets up with this woman and they get in the backseat of a car and start making out. And this POV is like circling the car. And at some point, whoever it is taps on the window and the guy’s like go away.

And the woman’s like, oh, don’t worry about it. And so they like, like, you’re just going to bang in the car and just let that guy just stand out there and watch. I mean, whatever, you know, I guess if you get off on that, that’s cool. Whatever, but then eventually. The, the killer opens the door and the guy gets out like, Hey, what are you doing?

And Santa are not Santa the killer. Literally like pokes him, which 

Todd: this is his, it 

Craig: could have been a pencil. Like you just like, like.

And a little tiny spot of red shows up on the guy’s white shirt and he falls over dead. 

Todd: Did you notice that in almost every circumstance where he stabbed someone with a knife, it goes into the same place and it looks exactly the same. It’s like they had like a retractable knife or half retracting knife that pokes like a little blood bag under the.

Which immediately stains it. Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Craig: Like one of those, like fakes, switchblades that, you know, they used to make as toys. When we were a kid, we had 

Todd: his kids. 

Craig: Oh my God. And so, and he stabs her too, and she’s dead. I maybe the best part of the movie was the credit scenes where there was like this really creepy plastic Sante that just burns through the credits.

I liked that, 

Todd: which was a total rip off of Halloween, total Halloween rip off. Yeah. Then we go to a Halloween party. I that’s what I thought it was a Halloween party in a disco and everybody’s dressed in goofy costumes and there’s a stage and a Santa’s backstage who is really putting a lot of effort into his Santa suit.

He’s like at a make-up table and they’re like, oh, you’re going to. And he’s like, goes up to this girl and he’s like, how do I look? Does it look right? It’s like, oh, you’re a little too hot, heavy on the Rouge. And he takes off his, a hat and his beard and he goes, oh, fix it, please. I don’t want to go out there looking like a gay queen.

And then another dude comes in and sits down next to him. Hey, you look like a gay queen.

It’s not the first time that this comes up. It’s really kind of silly. Actually. I’ll tell you, the movie tries really hard to be funny in parts. Like there are actual jokes that have been written and scenes that have been written to be funny, but the acting is so poor. The delivery is so bad that it doesn’t even approach.

No, it just completely falls flat. So this Santa goes out and there’s a guy walking around with a spear he’s in a grotesque like shrunken head mask or something. And they make it very clear to us that this man is sinister because the party music’s going on and he passes in front of the camera. The party music cuts out.

And this Dan that Dan and Dan, that music comes. And then as soon as he’s past the camera, the party music comes back on. Again, the music editing in here was super abrupt all the time. We would just cut in and out of music or cut from one music to another, with no transition sometimes in the. Seen in the middle of action, if just felt so cobbled together.

So I don’t know if this is a thing in Britain. I know I’ve been, um, I’ve been in England during the holiday season, cause my sister lives over there and they have this tradition called pantomime. It’s like a silly play that’s meant for kids, but also for adults to enjoy. And it usually. Uh, a wacky range of characters that, uh, in, you know, including fairy tale characters and a king and a queen and some goofy, silly kind of kids plot, and you’re supposed to sing along and all this stuff.

And then Santa, at some point, it also makes an appearance, whether he’s a main character in it or it’s about him or whether he just comes out at the end and hands out toys and things to kids. Now, this movie was clearly takes place in London and it’s pretty much all British actors, I think. And this Santa comes out and give them.

Uh, performance for this adult crowd handing presence to them. I don’t even 

Craig: know. 

Todd: It’s so weird. It happens a second time. Uh, he’s 

Craig: only out there for like a minute, and then he gets a spear through the head and like the spear comes out of his mouth and it looks. All right. Like, it was super abrupt. Like we just met these characters, but it just happens so fast, but at least the effect, this one effect looked okay.

And I thought, well, you know, maybe. We’re just going to get a movie where they’re just going to be some like interesting kills with fun, practical effects and I’m down for that always. But no, this is the only even somewhat interesting one and we’re introduced. Okay. So this Santa’s apparently. Is the father of a woman named Kate.

And she’s the one that was helping him with his makeup. And she has a boyfriend named cliff. I think that they’re kind of supposed to be central characters, but every character is clearly only written so that there can be some sort. Glue to the story like, and it’s so tenuous, like it, like even these characters who were supposed to kind of know and follow.

And we don’t know anything about them. They’re not interesting. They’re really not important to the plot at all. It’s just the only glue of a story that we have. And it’s so dumb. Like I don’t even know who they are. Like cliff is like a. Busker. Yeah. 

Todd: That’s how they make their money. Um, he’s got a really nice place for just being a flute.

Busker. I’ll tell you that. Well, right. Lincoln nuts. That’s all her job is to hold the hat. Well, 

Craig: he just stands there and plays the flu, like 

Todd: so weird. Right? I feel like it’s just like, maybe he could actually, this actor could play the flute. And so, you know, they gave him something to do for the movie after the Santa gets.

Which, and everyone stands around and does nothing. Yes. Like not even, 

Craig: no, like they’re just like, oh my God. What just had bad. They’re just all standing there. And like the, like Kate is like holding her dad, like, oh no, nobody is nobody panics. Like if somebody had just gotten this, if I were at a club and somebody had just gotten a spear through the head, I wouldn’t be getting out of there.

Like they’re just standing around like consoling each other. It’s okay. At least it was 

Todd: at least hopefully the killer’s gone or it doesn’t have another spear. And cliff runs over to the bar where there’s a, looks like the guy standing, but it’s just, he’s put a dummy of himself there, I guess. Just kind of does a half-hearted smash of his fist on the bar.

And then we cut to Scotland yard or new Scotland yard, whatever that is. I dunno. Uh, and there are two detectives named, um, Harris who is the main guy, he’s the inspector and Powell, which, who is like the Constable or a psychic. And, uh, they go to visit the victims family though. So the woman and her boyfriend, I guess it’s her boyfriend, right?

I guess there’s a husband. I don’t know. It’s never really explained. It doesn’t matter. 

Craig: It could be brother and sister for all we know it 

Todd: could be actually they claim, well, it was the costume. He was the victim of another Santa’s. So this is the second or third of several Santa’s slayings, the, at least the previous one we’ve seen.

And then I think from here, it cuts to another third Santa’s murder. Right? 

Craig: I mean, they just, like I said, they, they filmed all these Santa’s kills and then they just kind of wrapped a story around it. So. We see another street Santa, who is also like the Chestnut roaster. So he gets strangled and then his face gets.

Pushed into the roasting chestnuts and none of this looks great, like 

Todd: in the, in the uncut version of this, that I saw, he pulls his head back up off of the barbecue and you can see that his face is all black while he’s screaming and then drops his head back down on the barbecue and he catches. Okay, so it’s a little bit better, 

Craig: a 

Todd: little bit.

Trust me. It doesn’t look good. It doesn’t look good. It looks like his face was painted black and then they cut away from it. And, uh, there’s just a dummy that catches flame. That’s it. And 

Craig: then randomly. Like the postman, uh, delivers a gift to inspect her Harris that says don’t open till Christmas. Um, and the maid’s like, you should just open it now.

And he’s like, no, it says don’t open until Christmas. So he puts it away until the end of the movie

Todd: and the maid’s character was so unnecessary. She has a really, really long dialogue. I wrote her name down. I thought she was certainly going to come into play because she’s chewing up so much scenery this early on in the movie. And then she just completely disappears up until like one shot when she gets called on the phone later.

And then. Then we get back to that couple. And I just love this, this line. My father has just been murdered. I can’t concentrate.

And then we’re in a phone booth and this weird guy. Uh, named Giles calls, uh, inspector Powell, and gives him this cryptic nonsensical coma. What did it help your promotion prospects? So if you were to solve this case, I’m sorry. I don’t understand. What are you getting at?

I’m just thinking about what I’ve said. 

Craig: I’ll be in touch.

And like, as soon as Powell gets off the phone with them, he called like, he rings up the daily news, but we don’t see that conversation. So we have no idea what’s 

Todd: going on. There. There’s a lot in this movie that we don’t see 

Craig: another Santa, another drunk Santa gets. Like he’s just walking around and somebody steps in front of him and sticks a pistol in his mouth and shoots the back of his head out.

Todd: It’s so 

Craig: random, like these, I swear to God, I I’ll stop saying it. Cause I’ve said it like two or three times. I swear to God, they just filmed these kill scenes and then wrapped around them. That’s it 

Todd: just as bad, honestly, as you know, don’t go into the woods and this is a sin that’s committed by a lot of these cheap Grindhouse type horror movies is that they don’t know how to build any tension.

Right. There’s no tension about any of these seats. I mean, first of all, there’s no. Pathos. Like we don’t care about these people because we have no idea who they are. We’ve just met. It’s just a random drunken Santa person. And second they’re just stumbling around and then immediately they get killed by whatever method there’s no shadow around the corner, them creeping around them, running for their life, anything like that.

It’s just, they get stabbed. And then that’s it. 

Craig: Another thing that really frustrates me. Okay. First of all, This weirdo, Giles approaches Kate, I think at her apartment, but she won’t talk to him. He’s a reporter. She’s not going to talk to him or whatever, but then we get to the scene that you were talking about that apparently was heavily cut where cliff takes Kate 

Todd: cliff is out busking you.

Right. But then 

Craig: he takes her to his friend Jerry’s apartment and he’s like, Jerry’s a photographer. And Jerry is. Photographing this woman named Sharon. And it’s obviously like a very sexy shoe in the cut that I saw. She’s wearing something like a jacket or a robe or something that almost exposes her breasts, but doesn’t, and cliff says to Kate.

A couple backed out on him. So I told them we’d do it. Like, did you just bring your girlfriend over to shoot like porn stuff, like in your creepy friend’s apartment? Without telling her 

Todd: randomly the friend that you just bumped into basically earlier that day. It’s so bizarre. Yeah. It doesn’t make any sense.

Well, 

Craig: no, thank you. 

Todd: No, she’s not as annoyed by that as she is, is when the photographer pulls out a Santa’s outfit says, Hey, you can put this on. And then she’s like, what, how insensitive of you after my father’s death? And she runs out. Um, and then cliff glyph doesn’t run after her. And then Jerry just suggests, Hey, you don’t need to right after close, like, okay.

Yeah, I guess not. Hey, why don’t you take Sharon home with you? And Cliff’s like, okay. So he completely completely ignores her and goes out with this Cheron girl outside. She doesn’t put on any clothes. No, they stumble outside the door and she’s got a robot. 

Craig: She put on the Santa robe, but she’s just, she’s only wearing the Santa robe and skimpy lingerie underneath latest winter, put your pants on, like, what is happening?

I mean, you 

Todd: know why, but I 

Craig: get just so she can run around, but that’s the thing, like the second they get out there, he gets spooked by something 

Todd: because he looks at the cops. He says, oh my God, they’re gonna think we’re a couple of games.

Hurry up and run. Nevermind that she’s a woman.

Craig: And then he just bolts, like he just takes off running and just leaves her standing there. And then. No, I don’t even understand. And, and then, so like they just saw the cops, he bolts, then she’s standing there and then all of a sudden she’s being pursued by presumably our killer. And she gets cornered by the killer who now is wearing some weird mask for no explainable reason.

Like we’ve never seen this mask before. 

Todd: Translucent. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, we’ve seen these kinds of masks before. I mean, it’s just basically like a, a face, but it’s kind of translucent. It almost looks kind of like a baby dollar something, but it’s kind of creepy, but the killer like raises his knife. Like he’s going to kill her, but then they do close eye shots on both of them.

Like they make eye contact and. He doesn’t kill her and she just gets run. She runs away 

Todd: and no, no, no. She doesn’t just run away. She stands there while he slowly opens a, um, razor blade and approaches her with the razorblade toward the neck while she just stands there and then runs the razorblade down.

Her chair. Now again in the uncut version, her, by this point, he has opened up the front of her, of her robe. And it’s just a leering shot where he’s bringing the razor blade down, past her chest all the way down to her crotch, where she does have panties on lingers there for about 10 seconds before bringing it all the way back up to her, then closes the razorblade, gives her one last look and runs off.

Then she goes in the meantime. She is just standing there while he does this. She’s not backed up against a corner. No. Which a lot of girls in this movie do when they’re approached by the killer, they just, and then 

Craig: she gets questioned by the police. And the only detail that she can give is that he has smiley eyes.

Like this comes up several times throughout the movie. Like people just keep, the only thing I can remember is that he has smiley. And it is entirely inconsequential. It means nothing like, and, and do we even ever see that mask again? Like, 

Todd: do we see a one, one or one more time, but you’re right. Most in most of the killings, we never see the face.

We never see that mask. It’s just twice. Yeah. Santa’s goes to a peep show, some sleazy peep show down a flight of stairs and sits in front of this window where there’s this actually of all of the actresses and actors in this movie. I thought this girl was the most fun. She seemed cute and bubbly and she was.

Craig: She was the 

Todd: only one playful and kind of acting normally like, I mean, her, she was probably just playing herself, but in that regard, her acting was actually quite good. Our 

Craig: peep shows 

Todd: real maybe. Or 

Craig: are they just in 

Todd: movies? Cause I’ve never been, I mean, I’ve never been, but, uh, they used to be, I guess, I don’t know, but every time I’ve seen them in the movies, they’ve been different.

Those girls 

Craig: just like sit behind that glass and just watch guys jerk-off all day like that their job, 

Todd: this would have been like, um, this was the cam show before we had the. 

Craig: Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. I guess cam shows it probably taken over, but I’m intrigued.

Todd: We’ll have to arrange a field trip sometime research for our movie, uh, our podcasts. Cause, cause it comes up in our movies every now and then. Yeah. Um, so he sits down and they actually have kind of, I mean, what I thought the most realistic writing this whole damn. 

Craig: Well, I mean, she seems like she’s good at her job, right?

Like he’s nervous, but she kind of makes him feel at ease. 

Todd: And then out of nowhere, again, with no tension whatsoever, this knife goes into his neck and blood that looks like red paint, splatters all over the. Glass, she screams and manages to run out of there. I’m really not sure how the geography of this peep show thing works because it seems like there’s only one entrance and exit for both the performer and the, the customer, but she somehow manages to escape.

Craig: This. This, I think was my favorite piece of dialogue. It’s my first 

Todd: time in this sort of place. Me too, really. I live with my mother. So do I, I don’t think my mother would understand. Does your mother know you work here? She got to, she owns it. I’m just filling in for another thing. No from my mother.

It’s funny. It’s supposed to be really funny. And, uh, it kinda is, but it’s somehow just doesn’t play 

Craig: right though. She kind of is the only actress or actor in the movie who seems a little bit natural. A little bit, like you kind of believe her character as opposed to the rest of them who I don’t even know if they knew.

Todd: So then after this, everything just gets random and really choppy. I think, especially from this point on, like it just, these very short xAPI scenes nothing’s very well connected. Um, and a lot apparently happens in between them. Like the next scene is cliff and Kate or at home. And cliff has abandoned, wrapped around his hand and suddenly Harris comes by again.

For what reason? I don’t know. I don’t know why he keeps visits. Because presumably he’s gotten all the information he can from them, but he comes back like, no, they don’t know anything can’t help. Right. How could they help? But in any case, he says, oh, what happened to your hand? And cliff says, oh, I heard it.

What did he say? Did he say he punched his buddy Jerry or whatever? Like I thought, okay, this is going to be significant. Like he injured his hand. Was there maybe a knife Cod or the implying that he got hurt in a scuffle that maybe he’s. But this is the only scene in which his hand is injured, because then in the next scene we see him, he doesn’t have a bandage around it.

And it’s never mentioned again, I don’t know if that was supposed to be a red herring or if it was just poor editing and writing. Harris and Kate have, as she’s leaving, I think Cliff’s like, get out, get out. And Kate kind of sees Harris to the door and then they have this oddly intimate discussion of course, ministry outskirt, you know, at my office.

No, I’d like to talk to you, someone less public. Okay. Hmm.

Yes, ma’am. I have his number, very few of these ops, Ms.

Uh, you’re not very welcome, Kate, but please.

And I’m like, are they flirting? Is this like clearly 50 plus year old guy flirting with this young sort of Jane Fonda look alike. And I thought that was going to go somewhere and become this kind of odd romantic thing. And I don’t know, it doesn’t really does it, or do you still thought that was implied?

Craig: The characterization is so loose and, and, uh, like there are all these characters and you don’t know who any of them are and you don’t know what any of them are doing. Like Giles. This reporter, supposedly visits detective Powell, and is asking all these questions about Harris, throwing suspicion on Harris.

And then I immediately leaves and then immediately leaves and then Powell starts following Harris, but like, it doesn’t lead to anything. And then it just goes to the next Santa’s kill where this drunk up on a bicycle. Oh, my kids chased by some punks and then, and then gets chased apparently by the killer to the London dungeon, which I.

Red was something that they re shot. Uh, this was something that they added in and it’s hilarious. Like it’s really just an opportunity. For this Santa to run around the London dungeon as a set 

Todd: piece, it’s a wax museum, basically with a lot of horrific I’ve 

Craig: been there.

It is a, it is a tourist trap in London. Uh, and there’s probably more than one location. I don’t know, but it’s a total tourist trap, but it is exactly what you see in the movie. Like it’s like a wax museum of it’s supposedly like, you know, the history of the horrors of England, like torture chambers and LA it’s, it’s silly and ridiculous.

Yeah, good time. 

Todd: You got to see a lot of it. The movie, cause this goes on for like 10 freaking minutes. Him just slowly stumbling around there, looking up at things and being shocked by this and being shocked by that. In the meantime, someone who’s dressed in like a Monk’s outfit and a different man. Who apparently has been sitting in the London dungeon this whole time, just waiting for a drunk Santa to come.

Uh, you know, it’s one of those eyes look, left, eyes look right. Oh my God, it’s not a dummy. And it steps away from the wall and starts following him. It’s the closest thing to attention we can get here, but it really does beg the question. How is this killer there? Ready? And waiting. I got the impression 

Craig: that he followed him in, but 

Todd: no, we don’t ever see him being chased by the killer.

I guess that’s true. The punks chase, the Santa, get chase him off his bike. He falls off the bikes, the punk apparent punks apparently only want to steal his bike. They run off and then he just like climbs over a wall and stumbles down a street. And into that, that door, he’s not running from anything. Not that we 

Craig: can see in the, uh, London dungeon.

I’m saying this because my sister listens to this podcast and she was there with me. So. Saying this just for her, but in there they show there’s like an animatronic devil that like talks, it’s talking like this. Like they really had that. And we were standing in line, I think for a long time to get in the audio that was playing was just on a loop.

And I don’t remember anything that he. I said, except for something about suckle at the teach of the sow’s of hell

and every time it would say that we would just die. It was so funny.

Uh, yeah. Right. Okay. So, but that sand that gets killed, he gets stabbed in the gut after having like a ninja star thrown at him and then a knife thrown at him, he finally gets stabbed. Okay. It feels like a 

Todd: different movie, really. I mean, the set is all weird and different and that suddenly it’s suddenly just taking its time.

It’s the closest thing to stocking we have in the whole film. 

Craig: Yeah. And, and in a different movie, it like, it might’ve been okay. But in, in this movie, I mean, everything is just so cobbled together. And then we get another shot of the cops where they talk about how they’re going to put cops on the streets and Santa’s suits, which we never see.

Well, there are all these 

Todd: ideas thrown around. Oh, that’s a 

Craig: good idea. Yeah. That never 

Todd: happened. Then Harris attends. Apparently a circus for no reason. He’s walking around anyway, the circus and two more SANAS stumble out of the bathroom. Presumably drunk. One of them takes a piss on something. And then there’s, I guess a third Santa that is in the, the circus tent on the stage, giving another little performance where he’s just walking out and handing out.

Toys to kids. And the sound here is so bad. It’s like, there’s no sound of the crowd. There’s no sound of anything. Except the obviously dubbed after the fact Santa talking right now, 

Craig: then you little kiddies. Didn’t get no present earlier on. It was one over here. Right? Well, what are you and what over it?

You go, national is 

Todd: one go unwind all of 

Craig: your mum after 

Todd: me. Suddenly it’s day. Sometimes it’s night. I, the shots here go back and forth. The two 

Craig: is outside gate killed. One of them gets kicked with a boot knife. Like that’s the other thing, like the Santa has no emo, like he just has a bunch of random, uh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I’m sorry. Right? The, this guy, one of them. Yeah, like a knife shoots out of the killers boot, and he kicks him with it and kills him and he kills the other one. I don’t know. 

Todd: Yeah. And the unedited version, the third Santa comes out and he gives him another punch in the face, I guess, uh, with the fist, something on his fist, something, and there’s a closeup of his eye hanging.

Craig: Oh, I didn’t see that. Yeah. I guess what I saw was pretty heavily edited. Not that great, which is fine because the more you could shave off of this movie, the better. Yeah. 

Todd: Right. Okay. 

Craig: Well, I mean, I can just go through, uh, Harris visits, Kate again. Tell her to keep him posted and then 

Todd: also says something about cliff.

Oh no, no, no. Harris says Harris says that. Right? Well, cause 

Craig: cliff has been around. Cliff is. Cliff even like calls it out. He’s like, holy crap. I’ve been at the scene of like three of these murders. They might think it’s me. Well, yeah, maybe. 

Todd: Well, and Harris sees them busking outside and it’s a very odd exchange that they have.

It’s like, it’s like, they’re, they’re almost like they’re going to try to hide from him, but he comes walking over and cliff runs off and she just stands there. And she and Harris from about, you know, 15 feet of. I have this odd exchange, just how you make a living. Yes. Sometimes I realized cliff could be reduced to us through his connections.

He’s liable to reach a breakthrough long before we do well. We’ll just have to keep in contact then and exchange the latest news flashes. I was going to ask you just that. And I’m like, what, how, how, what, he’s a busker. He has connections. He can, it didn’t make any sense. That was a bizarre exchange.

Craig: Everything is the, you know, then it cuts to Powell questioning the peep show girl. And she says, I don’t remember anything. Cynthia smiley 

Todd: eyes. I do remember one thing, his eyes. They sort of smiled behind the mask. If I saw those eyes again, I’d recognize him 

Craig: if he was smiling and then she leaves. And like on her way out, she like talks to a guard or something, and then she’s being followed.

And I was like, is the guard following it? Like, I didn’t even understand what was happening. And then Kate tries to call Harris, but his receptionist says, oh, he’s not available right now. And she’s like, well, where is he? Oh, well, I’m really not supposed to say, but he’s visiting Parkland. We don’t know what, like they leave us hanging on what that means for a little while.

Meanwhile, the peep show girl is back in her booth and she gets visited by a guy and they talk for 10 seconds and she’s like, oh my God, it’s easy.

And, and so he chases her around and he catches. And he’s, he says like, now it’s too late. You have seen my face. Think about the error of your ways. Then I kill you. I shit, you, not that, like I wrote down, that’s what he said.

Todd: It’s bad the way. I mean, he chased her down a random street. She must have gone several blocks and in the middle of the day and he somehow leaps out, grabs her, takes her down the nearest stairwell, which happens to be. Something that he set up down below and he chains her to the bed with clearly black plastic chains before he leaves her to, you know, a reminisce on the errors of her ways.

So bizarre, I’m thinking like in the same 

Craig: morality play all of a sudden 

Todd: he’s killing Santa clauses, but now he’s decided to like, take an immediate left turn and go for peep show girls. Uh, Powell calls Harris, and then, uh, it says he’s off the case. Um, Harris, something about the commissioner. I don’t even understand why the commissioner has given him pressure cause he hasn’t found the killer or something.

So he just takes them off of it. Yeah. 

Craig: Th that that happens after another drunk, Sante is pursued at the backstage of a concert.

It’s just awful. There’s we, we get footage of this terrible female singer and. Again, you know, you’ll have to tell me in the unedited version, did we see that kill? Because all I saw was this awful woman singing and, and quote unquote dancing on stage. And then like we had seen the Santa’s getting chased around backstage, but then the next thing that we see is like a platform raises up onto the stage with the Santas.

Body on it. 

Todd: Yeah. With the knife through his face, which was decent enough, I guess the, the, look, the makeup, there was maybe the best chance to look. All right. But we didn’t see the kill itself. Yeah. And then suddenly go ahead. 

Craig: Oh, I don’t know. I mean, you, you took three pages of notes. You probably know better than me.

I 

Todd: did. I don’t know. Kate suddenly calls Powell and, uh, says she’s been doing her own investigation. Harris has been visiting Parklands and Parklands as a mental institution and Powell. Uh, and she says something about his name or some kind of name change. I don’t know that maybe he has a 

Craig: brother. There are no records that Harris actually exists.

Well, that’s interesting. Like how do you become like a lead detective in Scotland yard? With a fake identity, you don’t even exist, plus it doesn’t make any sense. Like why would he be hiding his identity? There is no reason. 

Todd: There’s no reason. And why, and, and why would Powell upon hearing this information completely matter?

Well, I guess he utterly dismisses it because it makes absolutely no sense, but you know, for the sake of the movie, he just says, oh no, this isn’t, no, this isn’t helpful. Thanks a lot. Nevermind. And the thing is like, we don’t see any of her investigation, like in a normal, well, plotted movie, some characters got to get to the bottom of stuff and we see all that unfold, but whatever investigation she’s been doing completely happened in the middle of all these Santa killings screen.

And we just hear the tail end of, of her results, you know? So it’s. 

Craig: And then, okay. So she thinks she, she thinks he’s suspicious and that maybe he has a false identity or something. So she goes on a date with him. Yes. To have Turkey with all the trimmings, 

Todd: God. 

Craig: Oh, you know, like this now we’re into like the stuff that I watched this morning and I’m reading my notes.

I’m like, I don’t even remember what happened. Like, so they’re on a day having like Thanksgiving. 

Todd: Yes, he does something. He tells her he’s been suspended and she says, I know it’s strange. I’m talking with you, but you’re the person I feel closest to at the moment. I’m like, why, what about your boyfriend, cliff?

Who randomly shows up at the restaurant gets upset that they’re, that they’re together, but maitre D doesn’t even let them get him in because he’s not properly dressed for this fancy restaurant. 

Craig: Right. So. Whole scene, like why did it even happen? Like he, he doesn’t, he, he doesn’t get to talk to them. They don’t even know he was there.

Like, why, so then wait, wait, wait. Um, 

Todd: yeah, we do not forget the department store Santa. Cause I think that happens before we wrap up this movie. There’s a rather large gentleman. A terrible actor. Happy-go-lucky walking through a department store and you’re like, okay, who’s this guy. And then you see that he’s had got some kids on his lap and he’s the Santa for the department store.

Then he goes into the bathroom. You do not remember this. Oh, 

Craig: I do. I do. I don’t, I can’t believe I do. I have it. I, cause I remember typing. What’s going to happen. 

Todd: He just goes into the bathroom, starts to pee at the urinal. And of course the door behind him in the stall mysteriously opens and dark Hiller comes out with his razorblade and shops.

This guy’s Dick off. 

Craig: Right. Which kills him. Like now to be fair, if you got your Dick cut off and you didn’t well true. And like, if you didn’t get immediate medical attention, sure. You could probably bleed out, but you are not going to instantly die. 

Todd: And then let yourself bleed 

Craig: out. Oh God. Oh my God. Okay.

So Kate goes home, I guess. And then Giles, who, who is. Rondo, like he just shows up at her place unannounced. And then here’s where things start to get explained and make absolutely no sense. Um, so apparently Giles is Harris’s brother and which, by 

Todd: the way, she worked out herself, she tells, she tells him, I don’t know how, but.

Craig: And it turns out that Harris had put Giles in the loony bin and that’s why he visits the asylum every month to visit him. And then it’s revealed that Giles is the killer, by the way, Giles is super creepy and does not have smiley eyes. So I don’t know what these women are talking about. And then I was super shocked because he kills her.

Like he strangles her with Corinthian. Christmas tree tensile. 

Todd: Yeah, I was shocked. Did not expect her to die. Did not. No, 

Craig: not at all, but it just goes to show like none, all of these characters are expendable. We don’t know anything about them. How Powell finds her. But he thinks that Harris 

Todd: did it. Why does Powell Harris did it?

He just dismissed her that when she claimed Harris did it, then he calls the what? The dispatch, oh, the somebody that he had tailing Harris. Right. And he says, oh, you mean Harris was at his apartment the whole time. Oh, it couldn’t be him. Then it hangs up. Guess what? Harris wasn’t at his apartment the whole time.

Cause the guy had a date with her in a restaurant. 

Craig: What

Todd: does even the internal logic of the movie doesn’t even work. 

Craig: No, and not at all, it doesn’t make any sense. And then, you know, coincidentally Giles is still around or something. So PO so Powell goes chasing after him, but Giles electrocutes, 

Todd: they’re like in a car lot. And Harris is like, Powell is opening, like every other car just to check and see which one is his and Harris apparently.

He apparently was able to throw this together in 10 seconds. Um, hooked up a car battery, I suppose, to the frame of the 

Craig: car frame of the car. 

Todd: As soon as he opens it, it’s the car practically explodes 

Craig: again, I don’t, I, as far as I know. This is not going to happen. Like, yeah, you, you might get a nasty shock, but you’re not going to stand there and get electrocuted with like lightning pacing through your body.

Maybe I’m wrong. I’m not a mechanic. I don’t know. 

Todd: The effect was pretty spectacular though. Lots of smoke, lots of sparks. 

Craig: Well, and then like pretty much everybody that we know is dead. So, so Giles goes back to. Peep show girl. And she promises, oh, my second favorite part of the movie is when she promises.

Cause he offers her some food and she’s like, well, how can I eat? If my hands are tied? And he’s like, okay, I’ll tie your hands, but you have to promise not to try to escape. And she promises, but the camera is very careful to show us that she crosses her face. When she promises, like if, if a killer makes me promise, I’m not going to try to escape.

I’m for sure. Going to make sure to cross my fingers just so I don’t get in trouble for lying. Right. What the fuck? So stupid. 

Todd: So dumb. 

Craig: Oh. And then he talks about how he hates Christmas. He doesn’t say why he just talks about how he hates. And, uh, the stripper hits him with something. And then he says, you will be the Supreme sacrifice to all of the evil of Christmas.

What, what are you talking about? And then like, that’s, that’s pretty much, then we, then now here, seriously, in the last four minutes of this movie, we get a flashback. That’s supposed to explain to us why all this is happening and it’s dumb. Like it’s just stupid and we’ve seen it before. Like 

Todd: it. It’s ripped off of silent night.

Deadly night. 

Craig: Yeah. And, uh, there was another one evil. Yes. Christmas evil where a little kid, much, much better and not a great movie. So that says a lot. Um, but you know, a little kid sees his mom he’s Santa and that puts them off of Christmas. 

Todd: For him, took me a while to figure this out. I think Santa is banging is his dad who is banging someone.

Who’s not his mom and his mom comes up the stairs and discovers this at the same time he does. And then his dad as. He hits his mom and that ends up pushing her down the stairs and she dies. I think that’s 

Craig: what that makes sense. I didn’t know who these people were. I didn’t know. It’s 

Todd: not clear at all.

Craig: Not yet. I have in mind, I have, in my notes, someone gets pushed down the stairs,

but that’s it like. 

Todd: It requires a sacrifice for that Supreme 

Craig: evil. She did. We, did we talk about this already? Oh, no, the, the stripper, even before, even before the flashback, the stripper fights with Giles, the killer and knocks him off like a four story 

Todd: stairwell. Plastic chain. I just love this plastic chain.

It’s it doesn’t even, it doesn’t just look like a black plastic chain. It also looks a lot like the black plastic chain necklace that she has around her neck the whole time. And it moves like a black plastic chain. It has no weight to it whatsoever, even when he’s banging it against the, um, the guard rails as he’s menacing her going up the stairs, but they don’t even bother.

Substitute in the sound of an actual metal. It sounds like a plastic chain hitting the guardrails and clicking around as it’s being thrown around in these scenes. It’s, it’s so lazy. Like there’s no respect for the audience in any of this. This is just a cheap kind of movie. You feel like your IQ goes down after 

Craig: watching?

Yes, it’s horrible. It was so bad. And the very last scene, then it cuts to. In his house and he has his gift, his don’t open till Christmas gift and he opens the card. Now you could have done this an hour and 15 minutes ago and saved us. Stupid ass movie. Um, but he opens the card and it’s like Merry Christmas from your brother Giles.

And it’s a, a music box, but like the, the, instead of a dancing ballerina, it’s like a spinning Santa and it’s playing Christmas music and he sits it down and he like sits down to read his paper or something. And I knew it was going to be a bomb and it was, but really it’s. Like they put an mat in the music box.

And so like, it explodes like a big firecracker. Apparently kills him and yeah. And my, and that’s it like, it kind of shows him like with half of his face, uh, burned or whatever, and the, in my notes, uh, dancing Santa music, box.dot dot. It’s a bomb that kills him.dot, dot. This movie was fucking stupid. It was so bad.

Todd: It’s not watchable. I watch it. I don’t watch 

Craig: her. Not even with no, it’s not fun. It’s not fun. 

Todd: It’s not fun at all. Actually. You’re absolutely right. It’s not fun at all. And that’s, that’s disappointing because honestly, what I got me kind of excited about this movie was that it was produced by Dick Randall who has just made.

A bunch of Grindhouse sleazy, exploitation, horror movies, sexploitation films, but we saw one of those. We saw pieces and yeah, pieces was also really, really stupid, but there was something about the stupidity of pieces that just also made it charming. It had a creative story, it had a creative story. It had some good looking girls in it.

Plot that, I mean, kind of made sense. It adds some utter wackiness in there that was just funny and goofy, memorable characters. It had the Bluto guy from Popeye. I mean, it was fun and interesting, even though it was a dumb ass movie, this movie was not fun and interesting. Yeah. So, oh, sorry. Great way to start off the.

Oh, I know isn’t that crappy. We didn’t wait till Christmas to open this one. 

Craig: Seriously. If we had saved this for our last one, what a disappointment, but we can only go up from here. And, uh, we’ve, we’ve talked about. We kind of have already mapped out, I think what we’re going to do for the rest of the month.

And I’m actually really excited. Um, they’re simple, uh, that I’m really looking forward to. So don’t give up on us based on this one. I promise you, I mean, anything we pick has to be better than this 

Todd: pressure. That’s what we need this year. Low pressure. Well, if you have any Christmas movies to recommend to us, please send us a message.

Maybe we’ll try this. I think I have one slot. I’d be happy to turn over to somebody who has a really, really good. Recommendation for us this year. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please share it with a friend. Just don’t watch the movie and you can find us online, just a Google to guys and exchange sauce.

See our Twitter feed and our Facebook page and our regular base. And you would just leave us a comment there with your messages on that till next time. I’m Todd and I’m crazy with two guys and a chainsaw.

We still cannot understand why this 1990 classic from Stephen Spielberg and Frank Marshall is not better known 30 years later. It’s a family-friendly fun and creepy horror film filled with stars. Thanks to Rob for requesting this forgotten gem and giving us a chance to talk about it!

Episode 278, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, this week, Craig got to choose the movies. This is a film from my childhood that my sisters and I watched quite a bit. We had it on VHS, maybe recorded from the video store, maybe recorded from TV. I’m not sure, uh, but it is 1990’s Arachnophobia, executive produced by Steven Spielberg and Frank Marshall and directed by Frank Marshall.

This movie came out in the theaters and at the time I remember it being pretty big deal. It was the first movie to come out under Disney’s Hollywood pictures, production, which is one of the studios that they created so that they could put out more adult oriented movies. Touchstone pictures is another one as a kid.

This, I just remember this movie being such a big deal. We watched it constantly. We all knew it. We all talked about it and it seems like it. And it’s, by the way, there are a ton of stars in it. 

Craig: Oh my God. Everybody in this movie, which by the way, there are like a hundred character and every single one of them, you will recognize it’s it’s 

Todd: nuts.

It’s crazy. And I have great feelings about it. I’ve always had great feelings about it. Yes. Correct me if I’m wrong, it doesn’t seem like anybody talks about this, 

Craig: which I don’t understand it. All right. First of all, I picked this movie because it was a request. It was actually a request from my personal friend, Rob, who is a relatively new fan of the show.

And, uh, he messaged us, uh, on our Facebook page. And this was one of the movies that he thought that we would have fun talking about. And as soon as he mentioned it, I was like, yeah, I can’t believe we haven’t done it yet. I mean, this is you and I, you know, I, it came out in 1996. We were adolescents, you know, early teens or whatever, but just like you, I remember it being big and because there were so many big name people in it.

Um, I think one of the bigger names at the time, I mean, Jeff Daniels is the main character, even though he doesn’t show up until 20 minutes into the movie, but Julian sands is in it. He was fresh off of the warlock franchise and he was popping up everywhere. I think if I remember correctly that the trailers heavily featured John Goodman, who, uh, you know, at the time, I think was probably best known for Roseanne, which was a show that I loved and he was great in it.

And, uh, this whole movie could be considered a horror comedy and it, it is funny, but Goodman’s character. Is specifically comic relief. Um, and he’s just kinda goofy. Like he plays cocky, confident, but it’s hilarious. John Goodman is actually a Harvard trained actor like this man, this man is incredibly talented and has, you know, has proven that he’s, he’s played lots of comedic roles, but he’s played dramatic roles as well.

And he’s just, and he’s great in this movie, but yeah, I feel like it was heavily. Promoted. And so when Robert requested it, um, I was really excited to revisit it. Uh, and I, and I wasn’t disappointed, you know, I forgot really kind of what a big production it was. I forgot that Steven Spielberg was attached to it.

Frank Marshall is a huge producer. He’s produced probably hundreds of movies. He’s only directed a handful, one of his other directorial. I think the only other one that I’ve seen is Congo, which I didn’t remember being a very good movie, but you said it’s Hollywood studios. It’s also an ambulant entertainment production.

And I ambulant did some great movies, especially in the eighties and nineties, like I said, I mean, gosh, just, just about every face you see in this movie, you will recognize. From something else and yeah. And it’s, it shot super well, like just some really interesting camera angles. And, um, of course it’s a spider movie and, uh, they took great care with the spiders.

Uh, and they also like the safety of this spiders, which kind of seems, you know, from my cynical perspective, like their spiders who cares, like when they’re, when they’re done in the scene, stomp them. But no, they went to extreme lengths to ensure the safety of these hundreds of spiders that they use. Just so many fun shots of spiders, creeping.

’cause and, and, you know, I’m sure we’ll talk about this more, but it really works in the creepy way because spiders, especially potentially deadly spiders as these spiders are, they’re kind of an invisible predator. And, you know, we know logically that there are spiders all around us all the time, and they’re just really good at hiding and not drawing attention to themselves.

And this. You know, capitalizes on that so much. And like I said, I was just really happy to revisit it and I was not disappointed. It was, it’s a fun movie. It 

Todd: is a fun movie. What is it that John Goodman’s character in here it’s at some point he rattles off and says, there’s something like what 50,000 spiders in the average backyard or something like that.

Gosh, I don’t know if that’s true. If they are men they’re really good at hiding. Plus a lot of them are really, really tiny. Right. But they’re very important part of our ecosystem, which is why we shouldn’t just crush them indiscriminately, even though if they’re like 50,000 of them in your backyard, you must have crushed a lot of them indiscriminately over your lifetime without even knowing it.

Right. 

Craig: And I do know that, you know, and it’s talked about in the movie how, you know, they are essential to controlling the insects population and, you know, without them, we would probably be in big trouble. Um, however, If I see one of my wall, I’m going to squash it because they’re creepy. And I don’t like them.

If they want to stay hidden, they are more than welcome, but show your face and you’re done for it. 

Todd: Fair enough. There’s so many of them, it doesn’t matter if a few go missing. Is that what you’re saying? Craig is a friend of the animal world, 

Craig: but you know, spiders, you know, and, and mice, I actually think mice are very, very cute, but if they show their face in my house, Come out and sorry.

And then I feel guilty though. The last time we had a mouse, we set out a trap and, and we got the mouse and, um, this makes me feel really bad. We got the mouse, but it didn’t immediately die. So it was alive in the trap. I mean, it was going to die. It was crushed, but I, I very carefully picked up the trap with the, a live mouse squirming around in it.

While Alan held open a trash bag at night, I dropped the trap with the live mouse into the trash bag. And I said, I’m sorry, Mrs. Frisbee. I hope Timothy gets his medicine.

Todd: Wow. A reference to another movie that scared the hell out of me when I was a kid, I feel like that’s practically a horror movie too. Maybe just for children, get around to it. Maybe during our family-friendly area. Well, this, this, this movie is definitely family friendly. In fact, I think the, that Frank Marshall and Steven Spielberg took pains to make sure that this movie, which apparently was originally written as a pretty serious horror movie.

Originally, one of the people involved in the production had said that it was, it was so it was almost like it had been written by a computer. That’s how formulaic it was. They went through some revisions to the script and it particularly drew inspiration from the. And jaws to, to do the tone. Uh, and the key thing is that the main character in the film who ironically his house, you know, gets be sat by spiders at the end has a fear of spiders.

So many people have a fear of spiders. I feel like on that alone, you know, you can base a pretty terrifying horror movie for a lot of people. I don’t myself have a fear of spiders, but I think they’re pretty creepy looking. I generally don’t want them crawling on me, especially the bigger ones. So the film opens up in what I believe.

Is it south America? Venezuela? 

Craig: I don’t remember. I don’t know, like a rain forest or something. Yeah. And beautiful, beautiful sweeping shots of, uh, this rainforest. I mean, it just looks fantastic. I, and I don’t know what the budget was, but I’m sure it was huge. Um, and it looks like it. Clean and beautiful.

And it just seemed like they could do whatever they want. They’ve got these gorgeous aerial shots, um, of, uh, this rainforest or whatever it is. It looks great. 

Todd: This was an era too when we didn’t have CGI. So, I mean, we did, but it was very primitive, uh, very, very basic and expensive. So, you know, nowadays when I watch a movie and I see these lavish locations, 90% of the time, I know they’re green screened in or heavily supplemented with green screen stuff.

And these opening scenes in this rainforest, worst shot in actual rainforest. So it’s just gorgeous to see these places and think my goodness, these places actually exist and you could go there. And so yeah, these sweeping shots are just all the more real, I think, uh, when, when you kind of consider that, and then we have Julian sands.

Who I remember mostly from warlock. Cause that was another movie around this era that my friends and I would watch a lot and were pretty freaked out by. And, uh, he plays, uh, what an entomologist would you say? So I 

Craig: guess that what it’s called the bug guy, Dr. Atherton. Yeah. And 

Todd: he is meeting up with a dude who already has a pretty bad fever.

Uh, who’s going to company him as his photographer, uh, for the session then they’re, they’re tracking him to the rainforest. We don’t really know what they’re doing, actually. That’s, what’s kind of smart about it. Right. Um, finally they end up climbing down nexus, beautiful waterfall in this big valley or basin or whatever.

Craig: And he calls it a sink hole. Yeah. They have to lower their equipment down. They’re able to go down, but they are accompanied by this native guide with the native guide. He won’t go with them. He points them in the right direction. But he says, I’m not going any further. It’s 

Todd: crazy. Yeah, because he knows something.

He won’t tell them, but he knows. 

Craig: Well, I got the impression that maybe eight through 10. Like I, he was specifically looking, I think, for new species. Um, and I can only imagine that he must have known well, because they even say that they make a point when they’re in the helicopter on the way there a little ant crawls over the photographers shorts and, and, um, eight or 10 flicks it off.

And he’s like, um, they bite very chill and Mr. Matt insufficient numbers. So I’ll do some of the frogs don’t talk to any, they make a point of the fact. And of course this is true, you know, that, um, a lot of these animals have defense mechanisms that are potentially dangerous or, or deadly to humans. And so then, you know, when the, when the guide won’t go down into the same hole, we know there could be some nasties down there.

And of course there are, that’s the whole premise of. 

Todd: Yeah, they get down to the bottom and there’s a giant tree and a eighth or 10 sets up a kind of little fogger at the bottom of the tree. And then a whole bunch of just catch basins, I guess, that, that empty out into jars to catch whatever falls from the tree.

So whatever falls from the tree is going to die and he’s going to collect it, it actually seems like he’s more interested in butterflies than anything else. 

Craig: Yeah. Well, when, when things start falling, um, that’s what seems to fall first are these butterflies and they, they drift down like leaves. It’s actually kind of beautiful.

I don’t know. I imagine this with CGI, but it looks good, but then some larger things start plopping down too, and they hear something loud plop into one of those catch basins and it’s a great big. Nasty spider that would scare the shit out of me. Like, just knowing, like, I’m not particularly scared of spiders.

Like I’m not frightened of them. I’m not afraid that they’re going to hurt me. I just find them creepy and gross and I don’t want them around. But, um, yeah, these great big ones and they used different spiders. I think for the big ones, they used a species of bird eating tranches and they’re big. I mean, it’s cute because like these spiders they’re dead or they think they are eight or 10 says, oh yeah.

You know, anything that got hit by that gas is going to be dead. But then one of these big spiders jumps onto the lens of, uh, the photographer’s camera and they’re not dead. So they find another live one as well. Capture it, I think, but there’s also just cute stuff going on. Like you see this giant spider, like watching and you get POV shots, like spider POV shots of it kind of crawling around and watching them and following them.

And eventually it jumps onto their gear and crawls into one of the knapsacks. But like I said, I I’m, I’m not being sarcastic. They really did go to great lengths to ensure the safety of these spiders and something that I read that I had no idea is that the truth of the matter is that spiders have exoskeletons and they can only get so large because if they got any larger, their bodies would not be able they’d collapse under their own weight.

Um, and they said that if the spiders really fell from. The height of this tree, that upon impact they would shatter their exoskeletons, which I didn’t know that at all. I didn’t realize that either later on, they ended up calling it the general and the general spider, but there’s this one giant spider, and they don’t really show it.

You get images of its legs, like creeping around or over something, but you don’t really get full body shots of it, which I think is kind of smart because it implies the size without it looking silly. 

Todd: Like you said, I mean, with these being practical effects that keeps it from looking silly. Because it’s obviously some kind of mechanical legs that are there, you know, somebody moving around, but at the same respect, it is taking a cue from jaws, you know, where you don’t show the, yeah.

You don’t show it too much. Wait, wait. Till the end, when you know, it’s going to be full on, you know, attacking somebody when you see it. But is it earlier on that we do get to see close up of the spiders eyes? Or does that only happen later? Oh 

Craig: no, no, it does. It happens in the jungle. Huh? There’s like 

Todd: a, in your face, like shot close up of the spiders, like four big black eyes and you can see the scene reflected his eyes.

Like he’s looking on at them. It’s it’s also kind of funny though. You know what I mean? It’s not in a goofy way, just in a, in a silly, kind of funny movie 

Craig: way, right? Like Vitor is watching them. It is funny. Um, and, and like I said, like, it seems like the sizes implied, like, I guess. These, you know, there are these Huntsman spiders that can have a leg span of like eight inches.

So we’re talking about like the size of an adult man’s hand and that’s man. I hope I never see 

Todd: one. Well, they, they, um, they go back to their camp. Atherton is examining the S the, the dead specimens that they have. And he makes a point of note of saying that these are odd because they don’t have sex organs, which must mean that much, like that much like ants that are w certain kinds of, you know, ants that kind of arrange themselves in an army and have a hive sort of mentality.

Maybe these are a new species of spider that does that as well. They’re laborers like soldiers, that kind of thing. And then the male is apparently fertile, right? So the nature photographer who still has a fever crawls into his, uh, his bed in the tent and by him, And then of course, it’s just this classic everybody’s nightmare.

Right? You see the it’s so cool. Actually, I love what they do with this movie. It’s so classic. It’s silly, but it’s also kind of, I think if you, especially, if you have a fear of spiders, it’s, it’s pretty spooky where the, the shadow of the spider is like is on the outside of the tent. You know, you see, you 

Craig: see its legs.

Yeah. It’s kind of like, no Saratu yes. I love that. 

Todd: And it creeps in and it gets under his blanket. And then I was also getting shades of like something we could display comes when they’re in the bed and they, you see the, uh, the bed covers move because the spiders under it and he’s trying to sleep and he’s kind of tossing and turning.

He reaches down. And of course the spider just takes a huge bite up. I actually write of the quick of the spider’s fangs going into his hand. And I think there’s even a little bit of blood there just for a flash, but man, it sure seems pretty bad. And then he seizes up instantly, which I think is a thing that can actually happen.

I think there are toxins that are like neuro muscular. You know, these spiders, they work on smaller animals because the animals are smaller. It actually works on them. I think similar spiders, you know, they don’t have enough quantity of this, this nerve agent or whatever in there. To have much of an effect on humans, but I think there are snakes that can have a venom that has a, this sort of effect instantly on a, on a human where as soon as it bites and that venom gets in you, you seize up and you just paralyze.

And then he just keels over dead with little blood trickling out of his mouth. Now the, the funny thing is, is because, you know, he had his fever and all that. They were not, it’s not entirely unusual that he suddenly passed away. They knew he was sick when he came. So they’re not looking for like spider bites or anything like that.

They just package them up in a coffin and they track it across the, the way to a big boat to bring him back. But not before that spider, the all-knowing spider decides to hit Europe. By crawling into a hole in the side of it. And, uh, it, and hitches a ride back to the U S with him. Hence the movie begins to spider gets from the sinkhole in the wilds of the rainforest, into Kanaya California.

Craig: Um, yeah, this small town, um, it looks like a Southern town, but I guess it’s in California, but you know, it’s, it’s convenient for the movie. You know, the spider hitches a ride and it has, uh, an entire food source. And, and when the body, when the body arrives, the coroner who, I didn’t even write down the guy’s name, but again, you would totally recognize him.

Character 

actor, 

Todd: Irv, Kendall. I remember him the most is the guy who owns the one in the original total recall. He’s the guy who like owns the total recall. Oh, yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, uh, but a character actor, cute guy. And he’s funny in this movie, he’s the coroner and he’s all the time in the Morgan. He’s always like eating around these dead bodies, which if you were a coroner, probably you’d be used to that kind of thing, but it’s a funny sight YAG.

Um, but we see him open the crate that the body’s in, and then he immediately calls somebody is like, um, I know we already agreed on an open casket, but we may need to reconsider. And then they show us the body and it has been completely drained of all blood. Like it just looks shriveled in like a prune and disgusting.

And the, and the big spider I was calling it mama for the whole first part of the movie, because I assumed it was a female, but it’s not, it’s a male, but it crawls out and it’s crawling around. There’s a dog and a cat, both in there, like a pet, like little cute pet dog and cat. And they’re both scared of the spider.

And they both run out of the doggy door and this spider like lumbers out right behind them. It’s cute stuff. It is cute. And then it gets the, the spider gets picked up and carried off by a Raven. And it gets carried. You know, the Raven is flying above this small farm and it, you just hear the Raven squawk and then it just drops out of the sky, like this spider bit at midair and it just drops out 

Todd: like a rock.

It’s hilarious. Yeah. I love that. That was so funny. And, but then it’s really funny. One of the charming things about this movie, too, that the tense things and also kind of goofy things is that they set up all these really near miss moments. You know, where a, person’s almost going to have an encounter with the spider.

They’re almost going to put their hand on it or the spider almost reaches them. And at the last minute, They stand up or something like that. And one of the bits here is that, uh, our protagonist, uh, his name is, uh, Ross Jennings, who is just come into town with his family, a family physician. Who’s moved from a big city and they’ve decided to come here and take over the practice of a doctor who was planning on retiring.

And he is played by, uh, Jeff Daniels and his wife has played by Harley Jane Kozak. Now, what do I know her from? 

Craig: I don’t know. I didn’t recognize her. And I don’t think that I clicked on her 

Todd: profile. Let’s fix that right now because I know I’ve seen her in other stuff. I just can’t remember what oh, she’s in parenthood.

Oh yeah. She was in who inherited, 

Craig: uh, Holly hunter kind of vibe about her 

Todd: dude. I liked her apparently in 2015, she was on, I spit on your grave vengeance. 

Craig: Wow. 

Todd: Don’t hold it against her. Um, I will also say she was in guiding light and Texas the TV series. I’m looking for another soap connection here for you, Santa Barbara.

Isn’t Santa Barbara soap. 

Craig: I think it may have been a nighttime soap. I don’t know. I don’t remember, but she she’s great. She plays, you know, the great mom role. I mean, she just seems very much like a wife and mother and, but she’s also. Self-sufficient, you know, she’s a professional photographer and apparently has had a lot of success, but like you said, she quit her job to move with her husband, to this small town, to escape the city life.

They wanted to get away from all of the fast paced city stuff and kind of, you know, appreciate the slower pace of the small town. And Ross is a wine enthusiast and like, it’s, it’s, it’s cute. It’s one of those things, you know, like they think they’re gonna move from the city and he’s going to have a wine cellar and they’re going to have this slow pace thing.

And, and of course we know that this great big general spider is on their property. They send the kids inside to start unpacking and one of the kids runs out and what’s wrong, the spider. Okay. 

Todd: Okay. All right. Calm down. Just 

Craig: you’re in the country now. Okay, come on. Let’s go find that. Let’s find your mom to take care of that spot.

We’re in the living room. 

Todd: We need you to kill a spider,

Craig: which is adorable. Um, but she comes in and she finds this little house spider and she doesn’t want to kill it. And I know, you know, I admire people who have the patience to capture these spiders and take them out and release them, which is really probably the kind and altruistic thing to do. I just am too impatient.

It’s much quicker to just smash them. But, um, so, so her kids are there and they don’t want her to kill it. And so they take it. To the barn and say, well, it can make its home in the barn, but we see that the big mammoth JAMA spider is there too. And I thought that it was super cute. Uh, it’s nighttime and Jeff Daniels like comes on to his wife and she’s like, oh my God, I’m so tired.

And he’s like, well, it’s bad luck not to make. And the first night in a new house. Um, and there’s, you know, it’s cute and they start kissing or whatever. And so then it’s implied that they are, you know, making love in their new house. And then we see a very romantic, tender moment between the giant spider and the little house spider that they released into the water.

It’s so cute. Like it’s like back lit by the moon and they’re like gingerly, like they’re face-to-face and they’re like gingerly touching one another with their legs. Oh my gosh. I just thought it was. Uh, it’s funny. The movie is not like slapstick laugh out loud, funny, but just cute little clever stuff like that.

And, and also, conversely, it’s not, nightmarishly scary. Correct. But there are those moments, like you mentioned where the spider is approaching somebody’s foot, or I don’t know, you know, the spider is just lingering and of course people are completely unaware that it’s even there and there are so many close encounters that it just, it makes you tense up.

Like it’s, you’re just like, ah, uh, and then sometimes it gets them in. Sometimes it doesn’t, but it does a really good job of building that tension. Um, and kind of keeping you. On the edge of your seat. Um, it just works. It works really well, but like you said, you could watch this and you know, obviously depending on their sensibilities, you could watch this with your kids.

Um, it’s a fun, 

Todd: it’s creepy, you know, it’s creepier more than it’s like, ah, scary, right? Because nobody wants a spider on them, whether you’re deathly afraid of them or not. And so those gear or, or like, you know, to have one in the popcorn bowl and then suddenly you put your hand on it and it might end up in your mouth.

That’s really gross. 

Craig: Right. Well, and it’s, it’s all the things too, that you’re afraid, like there’s a spider in your shoe or there’s a spider in the lampshade. Like these are all things that could end do happen and it just so happens. So, so what happens is, and it happens very quickly. I mean, the reproductive process for these spiders must be amazing.

Poisonous spider mates with this presumably benign spider, but they produce offspring, which they show like the very next day. Um, the wife crawls up into she’s just going around, taking pictures and she crawls up into the barn and there’s an ignored. Spider web and she takes pictures of it and she makes her husband come out to look at it, like kind of as therapy.

And that’s when he tells this story about how he has this memory of like before he was even two years old, he was just in his crib and a diaper. I still feel a feeling of waking up just drowsy, peaceful, secure, and then there, it was probably just a daddy long legs. Yeah. Well, it seemed huge. And it just came relentlessly, just crawling through the bars of the crib.

And then as it touched my bare leg, I know you were just wearing a diaper. My limbs and voluntarily froze just froze. No, probably still have to sleep is off. I was paralyzed, Molly. I still get paralyzed. Okay. Just please try to understand how this makes me feel that she says, well, come look at the web.

Like for therapeutic reasons because, you know, I know you’re scared, but I want you to see it and appreciate the natural beauty of it, because it really is beautiful. And that is true. Like I have a, you know, I live in Midwest in America. I know there are spiders everywhere, but we have, I went out on my back porch one evening and I turned on the light and the light illuminated this enormous spider web that the spider had built.

It had to have been within a measure of hours because I had been out there not too long before. And they are, the nature can do some pretty amazing things and a spider. If I get, if I walk into one, I’m not in my face, I’m not going to take the time to appreciate its beauty. But if you happen, if you happen to see one, you know, undisturbed, it’s.

Todd: Morning, do 

Craig: the gorgeous seriously. Really? 

Todd: It’s pretty amazing. It’s a miracle of nature. Let’s just take a moment to appreciate the miracle of nature that this little animal like spins this crap out of its belly and just instinctively knows how to weave this beautiful. Nah, it’s pretty crazy. And they managed to do it.

Uh, if you watch them at work doing it, it’s utterly fascinating. It, you could be lost in YouTube for hours doing it. Yeah. 

Craig: Oh my God. They are, they are lightning fast. It is crazy. But anyway, so, uh, when he crawls up there and sees it, he falls off the ladder because like a rung breaks, but when the rung breaks, it releases part of the web that swings into his face and there’s like a mouse or a rat suspended in the web partially eaten, which would have given me pause, 

Todd: like, wait a 

Craig: second, the hell kind of spiders do we have up here?

Um, but they just kind of laugh it off and go away. But the camera slowly creeps around a beam and we see the egg sack and it’s like pulsating it’s pulsating. And, uh, and it’s already. We already see the little spiders coming out of it. And basically from that point on it’s gradual to be fair. But from that point on those spiders are just everywhere.

They’re they’re everywhere and they 

Todd: could be anything they’re everywhere in the town. There’s not a place there. Isn’t one of these spiders. Well, he has this, this, and I loved this other character to this douchey, Dr. Sam Metcalf, the elderly doctor, who he had made an agreement with to come and take over his practice.

As soon as he gets to town to start to settle in and says, Hey, You know what? I just don’t think I’m going to retire after all that is such a Dick 

Craig: move. I just uprooted my entire family and you’re like, ah, never mind. Like, dude, 

Todd: he doesn’t 

Craig: even care. I know at some point Ross has taught, he has to break the news to his wife.

She’s like, oh my God, what are we going to do? And he’s like, I don’t know, kill him. Yeah. I mean, he’s old, you know, nobody would probably suspect cause it’d be done anyway, but you’re right. You are going to talk about the introduction of miss Hollins, who aside from John Goodman is probably my favorite character in this movie.

She’s so 

Todd: cute. And you know what? This horrible, this is almost. Uh, maybe you just have to live in a place like this to appreciate this kind of stuff. Does indeed happen in the smaller towns of the United States, Midwestern small towns where people are just ultra friendly to each other and she sees what’s going on and she just bumps into him and she’s like, oh, so you’re the new doctor in town, you know, why don’t I be your first patient?

And she’s like, you know, the best thing you could do is you could do exactly what Sam did when he moved into town, throw yourself a big party and invite everybody and get to know them. And if Sam was half as good at being a doctor, as he is at PR, you know, he’d be the best doctor in the world. So anyway, she becomes his first patient.

And one of the first things he does is sees that she’s taking these pills that she doesn’t really need for her heart. Um, cause the kind of heart issue that she has is different from what the, he, she needs those pills for. But otherwise almost to his dismay, she is the healthiest person you could possibly imagine.

It’s what he says. And he tells his wife that, and that’s a joke too. It’s, you know, it’s kind of funny, but she goes home and is reaching over for the light. And again, in one of 

Craig: these at first, she does, she throws him, she throws him the 

Todd: party. 

Craig: Yeah, that’s right. And, and, and this was ultimately, it kind of really doesn’t go anywhere.

But I thought that the scene did a really good job of introducing us to the townspeople. Yes, yes it did. And, and the townspeople are w we don’t really. To spend much time with any of them, but they seem like three dimensional character. Like they all have real personalities and, and real things going on in their lives.

Like one of them is Mrs. Metcalf, who was the mother of the photographer who had died from the spider bite and she’s really struggling with it. And so she’s drinking too much and she’s kind of breaking down and her husband and some of the other people have to kind of, you know, take care of her and calm her down, which was really kind of heartbreaking.

I mean, we only see this woman for like five seconds. My heart went out to her. I felt so bad for her. And, you know, herb, the mortician is there and his wife, I didn’t write down the actress’s name, but I remember her from the drew Carey show. She was Mimi from the drew Carey show. And she always wore the, you know, like crazy blue eyeshadow and she’s a heavier woman.

And she always wore like these huge moon, those, and she was holding Marius. And, uh, she’s cute in this too. She doesn’t play much of a role, but we see that the, the spiders are on the move. And after the party, after everybody has gone home, Mrs. Hollins, um, in her big gorgeous house, um, sits down. And I don’t know if they were doing this intentionally or if it was just inherent.

Style. I don’t know, but like just little things, Mrs. Hollins, who I already really like, she’s older, she’s beautiful. She’s spunky, she’s a widow. She sits down and she glances over at the end table and there’s a picture presumably of her husband and she smiles and she picks it up and she says something like, we all missed you today.

You know, if you had been here, you would have drank too much and you would have been the life of the party. And it’s so sweet. And she put in, she puts down the picture and of course we see the silhouette of the spider in the lampshade, but she reaches up to pull the cord of the lampshade and the spider drops onto her hand and bites her and she screwed.

Yeah, the next morning, the wife is trying to call her to thank her, but, uh, she’s not answering. So she sends Ross over to check on her and Ross of course finds her. And she’s dead. I mean, this is kind of, I mean, obviously one complication was that he was supposed to be the new town doctor and now the old doctor is not retiring, but now he’s only had one patient and she has mysteriously dropped 

Todd: dead.

Yeah. After taking her off her pills, which the other doctor put her on. So then that doctor becomes extra douche-y. 

Craig: And pretty much blames them. 

Todd: Yeah. Blames them and it gets gossipy about it, you know, and doesn’t hesitate to, 

Craig: and won’t allow an autopsy. And again, this is small town BS, you know, like really she was Ross’s patient.

He should be the one to make the call, but the local town doctor says absolutely not. You’re not going to start chopping up my patients. She wouldn’t want that. And the douchey local sheriff is like, well, if it’s good enough for Dr. Metcalf, it’s good enough for me. So they don’t do an autopsy, um, which if they would add.

Could have potentially prevented some of the future things going well, 

Todd: but it’s all kind of BS to really, because then he’s like, and I think I might have, I might see that, you know, you’re sued for malpractice. Well, guess what, if he’s going to be sued for malpractice. I’ll bet. There’s going to have to be an autopsy involved in that, but still anyway, there’s a, you know, there’s a funeral and it’s, you know, that sucks.

But then at the end of the funeral, one of the guys who we had previously seen in the party who’s yeah. Uh, his name is Peter Jason, right? It’s just the actors he’s been in everything like every movie, every movie that needs a drill Sergeant or a big beefy guy. He’s he’s like the parent of a kid on the football team or somethings like, Hey, you know, uh, sorry that that happened, but I’ll give you some business too.

Super nice people. 

Craig: All he does is he does their physicals. He goes to, he goes to the locker room and there’s a funny scene where Jeff Daniels just walks down this line of naked boys. And he like, he stops in front of each one. And of course it’s shot from behind the boys. Shoulders up just on Jeff Daniel’s face.

Like he just has the look on his face. Like, oh my God, this is my life. Like, like just holding. 30 pairs of testicles 

Todd: and turn your head a cough. It’s it’s hilarious. But 

Craig: then I suppose, as long as he’s there, he’s going to go out and just kind of watch the football practice. And one of the boys gets called onto the field and we see a, a spider crawl into his helmet right before he puts it on just as he is catching the ball.

Um, we see a look on his face, um, that obviously he’s been bitten, then he’s tackled. And when all the other guys get up off of him, he doesn’t move. And so everybody’s worried and runs towards him. And Jeff Daniels runs down and he’s dead at this point. Like, again, this is real small town stuff. Jeff Daniels comes home and his kids are sitting on the porch.

His wife may be there too. I don’t remember, but his kids are obviously upset and they say, People in town are calling you doctor death because every time he examined somebody

and, uh, and, and the son says, and they say, you want to chop people up and you know, like that’s such a real, it is, but it’s so real, like, because, and it’s real that, um, Ross explains it in the best kind of way, you know? Yes. You know, you do have to sometimes do this unpleasant thing, but it’s so that we can really find out what happened.

But I like those little real moments, you know, Mrs. Hollis, talking to her husband in the picture, this real moment of a father having to explain some, you know, arguably unpleasant realities of life. Life to his kids. It’s got heart. It’s a good movie. 

Todd: It does. And you know, what’s interesting is that even though these kinds of like awful things are happening, people are dying.

It’s still pretty breezy. You know, nobody shows up at his house with pitch forks. He’s not freaking out. He still kinda knows like, all right, you know, this is a terrible kind of coincidence of what’s going on here, but whatever. And he’s just explaining things to his kids as things are happening, you know, maybe as a snake name, but it doesn’t prevent people from going to visit him, especially.

Right. The next, the next scene is, is at Dr. Beck calf’s place. 

Craig: Dr. Metcalf is on his. Treadmill, um, talking to his wife and kind of trash talking Ross. Um, but then he gets off, we see a spider crawl into his slipper and, um, he puts his slippers on and he gets bit and he immediately starts to have a seizure, but being a doctor, a bad one, but a doctor, nonetheless, he realizes that he’s beginning to have a seizure and his wife who’s adorable.

And you’ve seen in a million things says, what should I do? And he says, call Dr. Jennings. Um, so she does, but by the time Jennings gets there, he’s already dead. But the good thing about this is now Ross is in charge. And so he can call for an autopsy of a Metcalf, which he does. And they find that he is like highly infected with this extreme toxin or something.

Um, and then, you know, The other bodies. Yeah. Against the objections of the dumb sheriff, they assume the other bodies and all of them have spider bites. Um, so they know something’s going on. And so Ross, I guess, prints out like a Google search of spider 

Todd: experts.

Craig: Well, I don’t know. Okay. Fine. I’ll library lists. I don’t know. We’ve got a whole list of like experts and like he scrolls with his finger up from the bottom and was like, oh, let’s just go with the one on the top. Um,

and it happens to be Dr. Abernathy. And so he calls it. And he’s like, I’m pretty sure we’ve got some killer spiders and Abernathy’s like, yeah, probably not. Um, cause you know, black widows can potentially be deadly, but people hardly ever die. And so he sends, he doesn’t go right away. He sends like one of his interns or something.

This kid named Chris played by Brian McNamara, who again, you seen everywhere. And so they start looking around, um, first fighters, the dumb ass sheriff finds a dead one. And there is talk about how, like, usually this time of year, there’s tons of crickets, but there, they haven’t been hearing any lately, so.

Okay. All right. We get it. There’s lots of spiders, the foot, the football coach. And at this point, really the spiders are everywhere. Like any like, uh, w at the football coaches house, the daughter is taking a shower and there’s a spider stalking her. The dad goes to take a dump and there’s this spider crawling in the toilet, just at any, you know, at any moment somebody could get bit.

And the spider actually does jump on the dog. And like kind of crawls its way or slides its way down between her breasts, but she notices it and flicks it off and 

Todd: yeah. You know, I can’t believe we’ve gone this long without talking about John Goodman. 

Craig: Oh yeah, that’s right. Cause he only, he showed up for that one scene.

Um, the ROS found out that all the wooden, his wine cellar was rotten, so he suspected termites. So they called in John Goodman. I don’t even remember what his name 

Todd: was. Delbert McClinton locker. So yeah. 

Craig: It’s 

Todd: and he just comes up and he lumbers that. And in some respects, he’s also playing John Goodman, blue collar kind of guy who just, it seems a little off in space, but definitely knows what he’s talking about and speaks in these matter of fact tones.

And I just loved them to death. Like the minute you see him, he’s just funny. 

Craig: That’s what my husband thought. And he’s an 

Todd: expert in these 

Craig: matters. Well, no, thanks. So glad you called me

no room for amateurs in this game. What is it? 

Todd: It’s hard to say, 

Craig: but anybody objective for a tour that flora, I would false alarm then lead on, I guess. Yes. Steven Spielberg agreed to executive produce this on the contingency. John Goodman was cast in this role. And Frank Marshall had worked with John Goodman too.

And it was like, oh yeah, boy, that’s perfectly fine. Um, and it’s great. Like he does, he, he brings in some not much needed, but much appreciated levity. Like he comes in and it’s just comedy. It’s hilarious. And then he ends up, you know, you said that it, it has a lot of. Um, parallels to jaws, he’s kind of the Quint of this movement.

He’s, he’s the guy that you go to, if you need to kill a shark or in this case, he needed to kill us fighter. And he’s super confident. Like he just thinks he’s like the best exterminator ever. And he’s got all these like non fail, like foolproof chemicals and stuff 

Todd: later on, he brings in his personal supply.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s like acid. 

Todd: That’s just so funny in this movie. And the other thing I like about it though, is that these actually is pretty smart. Like he ends up knowing what he’s talking about because first Chris and Ross, I think go over to the woman’s house to see if they can find the, the first lady who has killed her, her house to see if they can find a spider.

And there’s a whole thing where they end up do they do end up finding us. Oh, in one of the cereal boxes and they capture it. So that kind of confirms their suspicions. And so Atherton ends up coming down. And so you have John Goodmans, you know, very working class character as an exterminator being played against Atherton’s very, almost nose in the air, snobbery, ivory tower type professor character, right.

He’s he doesn’t come across as a jerk. He just is very, uh, you know, has that very educated way of speaking and, and very precise. And they’re all in the car together, I think. And they’re talking about where are they going to find the nest because there’s the spider must have some nest somewhere. And 

Craig: at some point somebody lays out, um, well there’s Ross, Ross puts, yeah.

Ross puts together that this the killer spider must’ve hitchhiked with the body and Abernathy’s like, oh, um, They examine the specimen. They find out that it, you know, is very venomous. It has like three venom SACS, whereas most only have one and it has no sex organs. Um, so they know that it must be that type of spider.

And I think Chris explains that I, I think of it like bees that have a queen, you know, but in this case it’s a male. Um, there’s one male and they say that the male must have made it with a common spider and produced a queen and is now has made it with that queen. And eventually she will create reproductive offspring, but for now, because there’s only the one male and the one female that can reproduce, there’s gotta be like a home base and nest.

And so they’ve got to find it and they’ve got to kill both the male and the female. 

Todd: Yes. That’s when they pull out the map and they’re like, okay, let’s let’s Cordy. Let’s see, where did all these bites, these attacks happen and what’s right at the dead center of it, of. Is Jennings house. So they all hop in the car and they’re heading to Jennings house.

And I think it’s cool. I’m not sure, actually, if it’s, if it’s the professor or his assistant who says, yeah, you know, this, this, this spider’s going to be in this kind of place, it’s going to be dark and 

Craig: whatever and musty. Right. And we already know, we know where it is because we’ve seen the spider crawl into this, the wine.

Todd: Yeah. But Ross is like, it’s been in my garage the whole time. There’s been a huge spider web up there. And at this point, Dilbert, Delbert speaks up, says, ah, I don’t think your average, spider’s going to find that bar. And it’s going to be a little too drafty for them this time of year. It’s probably not going to be there.

And you know, they kind of look over at him like, well, I’m sorry, dude, but it’s, they’re like, you should have seen this web. And you know, you’re an idiot. He turns out to be right. It’s 

Craig: because I don’t know that I would’ve noticed that. But, uh, if I weren’t, you know, paying really close attention for the podcast, but the spider makes its nest in the barn and then we need Mrs.

Hollis. And Mrs. Hollis says, I want to throw you a party, but let’s wait a couple of weeks until it gets a little bit cooler. So that amount of time has passed. So yeah, maybe the, the guy, the exterminator guy is right. The spider moved because the seasons are changing. So it moves to a more temperate place.

It makes sense. 

Todd: So smart script. 

Craig: Yeah, it really is. But I mean, this, you know, leads up to the final confrontation, which is great. You know, Chris and Ross ended up at the house and there, you know, of course they know that there are spiders everywhere, so they’re being very cautious, but the family is inside completely oblivious.

So Ross and Chris come in and just at that moment, I guess the spiders decide to make their move. 

Todd: Suddenly there are spiders everywhere, and they’re coming out from everywhere and they’re on the walls and they’re falling down and they’re, they’re suspended from threads and he’s like, you know, carefully moving around them and they go to the front door, but it’s already covered.

And they’re like, we got to go upstairs. We get outside through the roof or something and they go up and they end up in the bathroom and there’s spiders crawling out of the sink drain in there. I mean, it’s just your nightmare if you hate and they 

Craig: right. And they get the family out. But then when Ross goes to get out, like this whole army of spiders descends on their silk, like it’s just, it’s just really well done.

And I was on the edge of my seat. Like I was like, I had, my skin was crawling. Thinking about it. Um, and you know, it would be it’s nightmarish enough just to be surrounded by that many spiders that’s disgusting, but knowing that a single bite will kill you instantly. There’s, there’s, there’s a lot of threat there and he ends up, I dunno, if he falls over a banister or what, but it’s been established that the wood in the cellar is rotten.

So he crashes right through the floor, into the cellar and he notices that he’s like, wait, there’s a musty smell. And the others that the spiders are not coming down there. And the scientist had said, there will not be any spiders other than the queen in the nest, because spiders are cannibalistic and the queen will be guarding her nest, you know, against all the other spider.

So he knows she must be down there and she is, and she kind of aggressively comes towards him. I don’t, I don’t remember how it all goes down. It it’s fun. And I eventually, he swats at it with like a pipe or a machete or something and he hits it, but then he doesn’t know where it is and it turns out it’s still on whatever he hit it with, but then he throws it and it hits, uh, like the fuse box and it gets fried in the fuse box, but then big daddy appears and he has to battle it too.

And I guess this scene took days and days to shoot. And for most of it. Jeff Daniels was pinned underneath one of the racks of the wine cellar that had that falls on him at some point. And the spider keeps coming towards him and they’re using a live spider, which I love for the most part. Now, again, they were very careful with these spiders, but Jeff.

You know, this wine cellar, he treasures this wine, it’s all very expensive. And he has to throw these wine bottles at the spider. Um, but I guess he had to be really careful to make sure that he didn’t really throw it anywhere near the spider. He had to miss it by three or four feet every time. Um, uh, I don’t even know for D doing that for days.

No, I, I can’t imagine. And, and like, I feel like the house is burning around them. Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd: Something, something happened. I think it was because of the, uh, the electrical short in the wall. Yeah. 

Craig: Well, and then all the alcohol or on 

Todd: the floor, and he’s picking up bottles at one point and throwing them at the spider, he picks up the bottle of the Chateau or whatever that they had.

Like, he’s like, oh, not the Chateau. And he sets it aside and picks up another one because they had made a big deal out of this particular wine being the most expensive that he had had earlier. Oh. 

Craig: And then he chased. Yeah. And then he chases it around. An aerosol can flame thrower, which is a great scene.

And the spider is super crafty. It will scurry out, but then it’ll hide behind something when Daniels is, uh, using the flame thrower. And then as soon as the flame goes off, it’ll scurry again and then hide behind something else. And then it ends up in one of the, you know, Florida ceiling, wine racks, and Ross is just, you know, shooting the flame thrower at random in there.

And you get another one of those shots of close-up shots of the spiders eyes watching, and you see the flames reflected in its eyes. Uh, it just looks great. Eventually he hears it running around in a pipe, like a, a ventilation pipe, I think. And the pipe is open at one end. And so he positions himself there.

And I was like, do just shoot your flame thrower in there. Like, what is wrong with you? Like he’s waiting for it to like show itself, but instead it jumps out on his face and he falls to the ground and there’s like a reenactment of his two year old memory of the spider, you know, just crawling up his body.

Uh, yeah, 

Todd: another couple of great close up shots of the spider’s eyes with the flames flickering in them. These curling towards him and this spider is I think mechanical. And, um, I think it bears mentioning that, uh, Jamie Hyman, who is one of the MythBusters, he did Hollywood special effects for awhile, maybe still does.

And this was one of his very first jobs was the mechanical spiders on this. And he said it was just kind of more or less simple magnets and things that they use to move them around with. So it looks really good though. Does it looks great? Yeah, spiders, spiders themselves. They can’t train them. So they actually had to use all these tricks and things like a vibrating wires that they knew the spires wouldn’t cross, or the little chemicals or something they would spray like down.

It 

Craig: was just lemon pledge. They wouldn’t want any surface that had lemon pledge on it. They wouldn’t walk on, so they could kind of make paths 

Todd: and they’re really sensitive to hot and cold. And so they were using that to kind of draw the spiders to different areas, really interesting stuff. It’s, it’s a really great feat actually putting this movie together with live spiders nowadays, it would all be done in CGI.

Yep. 

Craig: And you would be able to tell as good as it looks, you would be able to tell and knowing that these are real spiders, just, it raises the stakes and it looks great. He ends up launching the big daddy, spider. Like he waits for it to crawl onto a piece of wood that’s laying over his leg. And when it does, he hits the piece of wood and it launches this.

Into the fire, but then, and so he thinks it’s dead, then he’s focused on the egg sack, but then there’s the spider, the flaming spider attacks him and he ends up, he ends up shooting, like it jumps at him and he points the nail gun at it and shoots the nail gun. And the nail goes through the spider and launches the flaming spider into the egg sack.

Now this is, they do this in movies all the time, but it makes me kind of irritated every time. That is not how nail guns work, nail guns do not just shoot like guns. Like you have to push in that part. It won’t fire until that thing on the end is pushed in, but whatever it looks great. So his aim is true.

Right. And, uh, then, you know, I don’t know. Yeah, they talk about how now that the mom and dad are dead, any ones that remain because they have this short life span, they’ll die in a couple of days. They just have to be careful until that or whatever. And then it cuts to a sweeping shot of the San Francisco bay.

And I left my heart in San Francisco is playing and, um, we see that the family has really relocated back to the city, 

Todd: to the city where it’s quieter, 

Craig: uh, where it’s quieter. And they’re like, ah, thank God. We don’t have to worry about any of those horrible elements of nature. And they’re drinking that super expensive bottle of wine that he had the mom and the dad.

And just as they pour and are getting ready to toast, there’s an earthquake. The irony is. Wonderful. So they they’re like, oh, we better go check on the kids. And so they put their glasses of wine down and there’s an aftershock which knocks over their glasses and the bottle of the wine. So they ended up and that’s where it ends.

It’s so, um, it’s, it is funny. It’s a, it’s a really good movie and you’re right. I don’t know why it has fallen out of the conversation of pop culture, uh, because it’s, it’s one of the better movies of the nineties, you know, especially genre movies. Um, it’s good. It’s, it’s really good. And it has wide appeal, wide appeal.

I feel like. Uh, lots of people could watch and enjoy this movie, even non horror fans. If you’re a fan of comedy, I think that you would enjoy this movie. It’s got really, really good familiar actors in it. It’s, well-written, it’s beautifully shot the performances. I can’t imagine them being any better. I just, there’s nothing that to criticize.

It’s got its tense kind of frightening, but not like scare you to death moments, but then it’s also got lots of moments of levity and it’s got humor and, and heart. I mean, it just, it, it just knocks the ball out of the park pretty much. And I don’t get why it’s not more. I don’t know. I don’t know why it doesn’t get the love and attention that I think it deserves 

Todd: re-released later in 1996, you know, we had on VHS and then it must’ve still been in the public consciousness for another six years may came back to the theaters.

That doesn’t happen that often. So it just blows my mind. I don’t, I don’t, I really don’t know why it is neither, but hopefully with our podcast and our millions of listeners out there who hang on every word that we say we will single-handedly um, boost the sales of in streaming of this, of this movie.

Look 

Craig: here, we are saying, why aren’t people talking about it? And we’re almost 300 episodes in, and we haven’t talked about, we’ve 

Todd: talked we’ve we thought about it before though. I think we 

Craig: brought up. We have. Yeah, but, uh, thank you, Rob, for, uh, suggesting it because. Frankly, it was about damn time. Like, so thank you for reminding.

Todd: Yes. I completely agree. A light breezy, fun, horror movie that you can watch with your kids and family. That just, just a joy, very clever, uh, from beginning to end and a lot of fun. Thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share with a friend. You can find us online, just search two guys and the chainsaw podcasts.

And if you want to make a request as well, you can find us on our Facebook page, our Twitter page, our YouTube channel, just to leave us a comment on one of those places, let us know what you’d like us to review and we’ll have that until next time. I’m Todd great. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd decided to torture Craig again this week with another classic giallo pic from one of the masters, Lucio Fulci. We checked it out because Fulci claims it’s his favorite film in his entire ouvre, which is definitely saying something. Another mass-murder mystery in a small Italian town harboring some deep secrets and a long history of rumors and suspicions, which was controversial enough to get only a limited release in Europe.

Come to check out the beautiful men and ladies, as well as the first ever Fulci film to feature extreme gore effects!

Episode 277, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: All right. Today was my pick and it is the fall time. And I don’t know what it is, you know, different times of year. I feel like different kinds of movies. And in the fall when things are getting cold and we’re sitting inside, there’s nothing that warms me up more than a nice Italian giallo film.

And so this week I chose Lucio Fulci’s, favorite movie that he’s ever done, Don’t Torture A Duckling, from 1972 and the first film that he kind of resorted to gore. After this movie, he did a lot of gory films, kind of became known for that later on when he did his more, more straight horror films and his other jello pictures.

So here we are talking about this. I know one of Craig’s favorite genres. I know I make no apologies. I love these movies and, uh, I’ve know I’d seen this before, but I completely forgot about it. And so I was really happy to revisit it. Craig, tell me about your long, long history with this film. 

Craig: Uh, you know, I don’t know.

I. The title. I think I’ve surely heard the title before, cause it’s silly title and it kinda stuck with me. The original, the original title is an Italian. Does it translate to don’t torture a definitely. 

Todd: Actually it’s more closely to translate. It’s it’s now I’m sorry. I’m kind of reading Italian. Like I can pretend like I’m reading Italian known wound pepper, Reno.

Would literally translate to don’t torture Donald duck

because apparently in Italian, a Papa Reno is what Donald duck is called. So that makes 

Craig: a lot more sense,

Todd: right? It’s a Disney film folks were, 

Craig: and I can understand why they probably couldn’t use that title, uh, in the states for copyright purposes, but Donald duck doesn’t play a significant role in this film, at least as significant as any other role in this film. That, that’s the thing. That was my issue with this movie.

My biggest issue one, I didn’t find it particularly interesting at all period. And I think that my contributing to that, I think that my biggest problem with it was. There are no main characters in this movie. Like it’s just a series of events with a town’s worth of people. There. There’s nobody really, in my opinion, there’s nobody to follow.

Really. There’s nobody to like root for like odd, 

Todd: you know, I didn’t think about it that way, but you’re absolutely right. It’s very plot driven. None of the characters. Do we really get to know very closely or know much about, and unlike most films really, we’re not following a central character. It is just an entire mystery revolving around a town where kids are dying and, uh, yeah.

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t even think about that. And maybe, you know, it didn’t bother me though. 

Craig: I in absolutely no way mean this to be pretentious, but maybe that’s kind of the literature teacher in me. Like I’m looking for a protagonist, like who is my hero, or even who is my anti hero. Like I don’t care.

Like I’m, I’m more than happy to follow the killer if that’s who the central focus should be on. That’s fine. Um, but not to say that there weren’t some interesting characters, but even the interesting characters, I didn’t feel like we got to know very well. And so. Yeah. I wasn’t particularly invested in what happened to them.

And then some of the key, some of the characters that like, I guess they play key roles. Like I didn’t even really know who they were. One of the, one of the main characters is this guy named Andre or Andrea Martelli. And like, I didn’t even know who he was like, was he a reporter? Was he a detective 

Todd: dude?

He introduced himself as a reporter in the very beginning. Remember he tried to get into the crime scene and they turned him away. Well, 

Craig: all these Italian guys look the same and I, and, and fair enough, you know, funny enough, no, none of them are like very, it’s an Italian movie. Uh, hardly any of them are actually Italian. Like I still I’ll never get used to. These movies that are, you know, they’re, they’re filmed and Italy, they’re they’re Italian productions, but for the most part, at least it appeared to me that these actors in their delivery were speaking English.

And yet it’s dubbed in English. I don’t get it. I know you’ve explained it to me before. You’ve explained that it has to do with like, it’s cheaper to do the sound mixing and post, and I fine, but it’s just weird. Like it, it doesn’t like. Tiredly pull me out, but it’s just kind of unsettling. Like it’s kind of like an uncanny valley kind of thing.

Clearly they’re saying the words, but it’s also clearly dubbed. It’s 

Todd: weird. I thought for the most part, actually the dubbing wasn’t too bad. I mean, as far as word matching mouth matching, sometimes you, right. It didn’t work. But as far as the acting of the dubbing artists, when I. Too shabby, but you’re right.

This is, this is standard for these Italian films of this era. And whether it be, um, economical reasons or whatever, they would shoot the movies and the most these guys in here speaking English, but a lot of the Italian actors, maybe their English isn’t so good, honestly. Um, I don’t think I’ve ever brought this up on the podcast before, but I’m a full-time voice actor in China right now.

And so I step into the studio and almost every day I’m dubbing something, whether it’s a cartoon or a person and nine times out of 10, believe it or not. I’m dubbing English, actors speaking English, because it seems to be that the. The way they do things here, even though they record sound onset. And I, I listen to these characters lines and they’re perfectly fine.

They’re delivered fine. They may even be Americans or Canadians doing a perfectly fine accent. They still want to scrub all the sound and just get a fresh, nice take in the studio. And it’s either inconvenient or cheaper to just bring in people like me to dub over these folks, then bring in the original actors.

I mean, in this case right now in COVID it’s because a lot of the original actors aren’t available. So that’s one. But another part of it is a lot of times here in order to find these white faces that we need to play the military soldiers or whatever. And these movies they’re Russians, because they have easier access to China than the rest of us.

Especially now it’s easier to round up a bunch of Russian guys to, to run around and, and, and speak. And so even though they can speak English, maybe for the most part, it doesn’t sound like they’re an American and in the movie, this war movie, or whatever, you know, they’re, they need to be sound like American soldiers.

So then they bring someone like me. And so even though some of these Italians in this movie are speaking English, I’ll bet. If you listen to the original sound there it’s pretty poor. So that’s another reason why they might, they might dub it. So I thought, uh, of all of the dubbed Italian films we’ve seen this particular movie was one of the better dubbings, but that wasn’t what distracted me the most.

I’ll tell you what distracted me the most in this movie was, um, Barbara Bush. Which one was, she was, 

Craig: she was, yeah. 

Todd: Yeah, 

Craig: she was she’s beautiful. And then the first time that you’re introduced to her, she is fully nude as a bonus. And not, not long time, just fully nude, but posed like a centerfold intentionally 

Todd: pouring a cold drink over bike down between 

Craig: her 

Todd: breasts.

Right. Actually pretty gratuitous as a matter of fact, but I’m not complaining and I didn’t 

Craig: really get it. Like I appreciate it. Like I looked at her, I’m like, wow, she’s beautiful. And she has beautiful body and, and, and a beautiful face and beautiful eyes. She’s, she’s a beautiful woman. I didn’t even really get it.

Like, what is she doing here? 

Todd: Yeah. She is kind of a central mystery of the film, but that’s intentional, of course, like we’re really not supposed to get a total clear beat on her, but you’re right. Even by the end of the movie, we never really get it. Do we? 

Craig: That’s the other thing I, I told, uh, those of you who’ve listened to any of our podcasts before my partner, Alan is not a big fan of horror.

I was talking to him about this and I said, these movies, they’re not all the same, but they frustrate me in the same way because really to classify this as horror is a stretch, in my opinion, now the, uh, there is some gore and there are some practical effects. Now I would argue that while the practical effects.

Gross. There’s one scene in particular. I don’t want to spoil it yet, but there’s one scene in particular where my stomach really kind of turned. Then some of the others were a little bit corny, but whatever. I still like practical effects. That’s great. Aside from that, it’s not horror. It is a mystery. It’s the suspense mystery.

And I 

Todd: mean, we have this conversation sometimes, but like a slasher movie is one guy going around murdering people. What makes that horror? Whereas in this case, yes, there is also a person going around murdering people. But I don’t know. It’s not as gruesome. It doesn’t have, I mean, what, there are 

Craig: no, there are no, oh, excuse me.

There’s one on screen death. All of the rest of them happen off screen. The thing, another thing that bothers. Okay. So they’re mysteries and I’ve complained about this with these giallo movies before they’re mysteries, but the solution to the mystery is virtually impossible to come up with. On your own, like until like the last few minutes.

And then it’s like, oh, okay. 

Todd: I am totally going to battle you on this because of all of the jello movies and admittedly, you’re absolutely right. They tend to be very obtuse and odd and downright like, uh, a person goes to a library and opens a random book, and that gives them a clue to the next thing I grant you, that this has to be one of the most straight forward and easy to follow mysteries that we’ve seen in any of these films.

I don’t 

Craig: know. Well, I mean, and this is typical of the genre, so it’s difficult to even be critical because I understand going in that this is typical of the genre, but there are so many. Red herrings, like Boleto in your face, red herrings. Like they are clearly trying to get you to think, oh, it’s that guy or, oh, it’s her or whatever.

And then at the last minute they flip it on you and this one now are granted in the last, I don’t know, five, 10 minutes. I was like, oh, well now it’s obvious who it is. But leading up to that last five or 10 minutes, there was new to me, not even a suggestion that the killer was who the killer ended up being.

Todd: Honestly, I had my suspicions at one point, and I don’t know if it’s just because I was imagining there are so many red herrings, like who’s the one, who’s the person I’m seeing the least. So maybe that’s it. But I honestly felt like it’s not that it was projected, but when it was revealed, I said, Yeah. And, and, and shortly before it was revealed a little bit before 10 minutes, I was like, oh, maybe this person actually has a motive and could be it, although you’re right.

There’s no like particular evidence that points in that direction that you could deconstruct until said reveal so 

Craig: well. And, and, and again, like ultimately the person who it ends up being like, it kind of makes sense. I still have questions that I want to talk about when we get there. Like, ultimately it kind of makes sense.

It’s just that there, like you said, it it’s not projected. And so it kind of comes out of left field a little bit, but again, Ultimately in the end, the motive does make sense. It’s kind of silly, but it makes sense. Yeah. But you know, I don’t, it’s, it’s a movie about this, uh, Italian town. I don’t know what to call it a city, a town, but it’s one of those 

Todd: community.

Craig: Yeah. It’s one of those classic Italian, what like villas or, you know, where all of the buildings are super close together, built into like this hillside. It’s gorgeous to look at. I mean, it’s very old school, Italian. I don’t know how to better describe it. Can you help me out? Like, 

Todd: it’s like a, almost like a backwater Italian village where people are maybe a little more traditional and a little more removed from the big city and.

That’s projected early on in, you know, the opening credits show up over a very big wide shot over landscape, you know, the mountains and things. And I thought, actually, this was quite brilliant where the highways cutting through these maps. Right, but you get the sense, this is a remote place and nobody really touches it because even the highway itself is just sort of suspended over the landscape and cutting right through it.

Like nobody’s going to stop there. You know, I thought that was actually pretty brilliant in the opening to really show how remote this place is. Right. I’m just not just remote, but remote from quote unquote, you know, modern civilization. Not that there are, you know, Completely backwards P plays, but it, you 

Craig: know, it’s, it’s, it’s all, you know, it’s not a small town really.

I mean, it’s, it’s these, you know, probably two to three story buildings, but they’re built up a hill, like, so it’s almost like they’re just, they’re all connected and they’re, you know, almost just like stacked on top of each other up this hill, it looks cool. It really is. I mean, it’s, it’s someplace that if you were traveling throughout Europe, you know, it would be a really neat place to visit and, and, and see, because it’s very different than anything that you would see in the states.

Right. 

Todd: And let me just interrupt you by saying, like I’ve said before, this is one big reason why it loved these movies is because I get to see this kind of stuff. And also. In a particular era, you know, several decades ago. 

Craig: Right? Well, I mean, that’s, you know, I, my, uh, I know that you are a world traveler, you’ve lived all over the world.

My experience with international travel is very limited, but, um, you know, just having visited London and, and Amsterdam, and it’s just it, we Americans, those of us who don’t travel extensively. It’s just so interesting to see Europe because it’s so much older. Like my comparison America is such a young nation and the architecture is just so much more modern.

You know, we’re talking about, you know, architecture that’s potentially centuries of years old. And I just remember in London, it was amazing to see modern architecture right next to other structures that were, are, are centuries old. And it’s just something that you don’t experience in the states. So kids.

Travel. There’s a whole other 

Todd: world out there once you’re able, once you get vaccinated. 

Craig: Right, right. Exactly. When the world wind slash, if the world ever gets back to normal take advantage, but it’s, it’s a murder mystery and it starts out with a woman digging on a hill. Okay. Interesting. Whatever. And she digs up a child’s skeleton.

And then we’re introduced to these young boys, young teenage boys, like 12, 13 years old. And there’s three of them, Torino, Bruno and Mikaeli and they get all excited and they’re like, they’re coming, they’re coming. And it turns out that, um, apparently some hookers like come into town every once in a while, 

Todd: big city hookers 

Craig: and set up camp at.

Like rundown place, they call it the haunted house 

Todd: or something. And I quote tits the size of watermelons. 

Craig: Oh. And it’s, it’s so funny because these are more alike, not the eighties hookers from horror movies, but like old school, Italian hookers. So like robust. Middle-aged web.

Todd: That’s a nice way of putting 

Craig: it. Well, see it, but I feel like Europeans, you know, that’s, that’s more their, their style or it was in the seventies. I don’t 

Todd: perhaps in this town anyway. Yeah. So 

Craig: these, these boys go basically just to be kind of peeping Toms or whatever. And, um, we also meet GSMP who is like the village idiot who won, who also much like the boys who he’s probably kind of on the same mental level with, um, just wants to.

Pete

I’ll tell ya. Yeah. Then randomly we see hands because of course it’s a geology flake. We’ve got to get lots of hand shots and these hands making voodoo dolls and whoever this person is pokes the. Needles through the next of these voodoo dolls. And we kind of see the boys react a little bit and eventually those boys all die, but not before McKayla.

This is when we’re introduced to protrudes yet. Now I really don’t understand. Okay. So does Mikaela’s mother work as a housemaid for treats? Yeah. Okay. Yup. Yup. So, so McKayla’s mom works as a maid for this wealthy woman who we know nothing about at this point. But her son visits her and she says, take this, drink up to this woman.

And that’s when we meet her and I’ll let you kind of already described the scene, but I feel like this is way more your demographic.

Todd: This is more my cup of tea. Is that what you’re saying? 

Craig: Correct. Not that I don’t appreciate it. 

Todd: I mean, McKayla comes upstairs and it’s a very well, by the way, this movie is really well shot. The cinematography in this movie is very nice, very inventive. I can’t really say enough nice things about it. And it really, I think stands apart.

Of course, most of these jello movies are. Pretty stylish, you know, and well shot some better than others. A lot of them are just cheap and, and, you know, garbage, but especially, especially full cheek kind of runs the gamut. I mean, we’ve done like the city of the living dead and we thought that was just dumb.

And so keep that in mind. Uh, he brings up, uh, a tray and this woman is for no really good reason, completely nude lounging in this room, in her house. I mean, she’s not like sunbathing or under a heat lamp or anything. This is just the way she likes to be. She’s utterly gorgeous. And her name is Barbara Bush and she is actually a German American actress left Germany under Nazi.

Occupation was raised in the U S was involved in Hollywood for a while, but then I think got a little upset. I mean, like she, she was a model and things like that had no problem doing nude scenes and nude, nude, posing, but, um, eventually kind of was like, eh, she found better work in Italy during this time.

And actually ever since really, probably her most famous screen role aside from doing a lot of these kinds of pictures in Italy was as miss Moneypenny in the 1960s, casino Royale, James Bond movie. So, but she’s gorgeous and she’s laying there completely naked and GSMP comes up to her and is very, um, you know, he’s looking down, he’s very embarrassed by this, but you know, he’s got to deliver her her thing and she’s actually kind of taunting him.

Craig: Um, I put yarn Jade on the table. Oh, McKenny, bring the tray here.

I’m coming. I don’t want to spill it. Oh, yeah. Well, look at me. God, are you obsessing? And

I didn’t think so. How many girls have you had?

I don’t know. You liar. If you said one or two, I might’ve believed you. Ah, but lots is not true. 

Todd: You’re just full of shit in this way. More or less coming on to him, which is really upsetting and unsettling. In fact, full, she was arrested based on this scene because based on child endangerment, he was let go.

Once he kind of showed that he didn’t actually shoot the scene with the kid, they shot scene shots of the kid and then shots of her. And there no shots of them actually together in the same shot. There’s one shot over his shoulder when he’s carrying the tee up. But if you’re, if you look carefully, you can tell it’s actually not him.

It was a body double N a much older person, a little person. Yeah. A little person. So, and I think that’s cute. They didn’t. A little kid in the same room with a nude woman coming on to him. 

Craig: I read that. And I thought like that never would’ve occurred to me. Why is that 

Todd: even a problem today? I don’t know. I don’t 

Craig: know.

Like, I mean, there’s the scene. I mean, it didn’t make me uncomfortable because I don’t know whatever. I don’t care. It’s a movie, but, and, and there’s nothing, you know, nothing inappropriate like happens really between them. I mean, the whole thing is kind of weird. Like why I still don’t get it. Like I don’t get her character at all.

Why is she teasing this boy? Like this, to be honest with me, she, she literally invites him to bed. And now I assume that she was kidding and eventually would have said, ah, just kidding, little boy, get out of here. But really the only, you know, he gets called back by his mom. That’s the only thing that interrupts it.

I just, I, and well, when we say these kids are like young teenagers, Like 12, 13, they are. But as rarely happens in these movies, these boys are played by age appropriate actors. So they look like little boys and it’s a, 

Todd: it looked like 12. Yeah, definitely on the early side of teen. And so, and the boys and uncomfortable and she’s coming on to him and this really is like every kid that age is like wet dream basically.

But you know, somebody interrupts or whatever, she’s like, oh, do you want to, would you like to go to bed with me and all that? And then mom calls him back down. He ends up going down. And this is, she does this a couple times in the movie, which honestly, maybe she is a bit of a pedophile. I, I don’t think that’s out of the question for her character.

Craig: Well, I think that the. Full cheer, the writer, whoever, and did full. She wrote this too. I think he 

Todd: co-wrote it. Yeah. With a couple others, 

Craig: again, red herring, like this woman is weird. This woman is potentially predatory. And like they are setting her up to be suspicious, which is obvious. But then of course, you know, I think she is suspicious.

And so I don’t know what she’s going to do. Like after this, she could do anything and it wouldn’t surprise me. 

Todd: Right. Gosh, I don’t know. We learned that she is the daughter of a well-to-do man who owns a bunch of property in town, but has never actually in town. And she had been away for a long time. I ended up kind of coming back by herself.

So she is an outsider 

Craig: because again, suspicious because she had gotten tied up in some kind of like drug scandal or something. And so her dad had said it would be best for her to lay low. Um, so that’s why she’s here in this small town and she doesn’t fit in, in the small town. 

Todd: Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the trope, right?

This is part of the thing. It’s the outsider in the small town, the big city girl, who’s a little more, less traditional, little more edgy, you know, coming in, what ends up happening is one of these three boys. Uh, I think it’s the ends up dead. And we, we kind of see this, like he’s being chased by a dog, I think, and a person, but it’s all sort of a POV shot.

And he gets whacked with, with a stick or something and falls down. And the next thing we know, um, they’re all investigating a murder. And so Andre, this reporter comes into town as well as the police and weasels his way in. Uh, as they’re interviewing different people and again, another outsider, right?

It’s it’s the outsiders who have to come in to this small backwater insular town and help solve the mystery of what’s going on, I guess. Right. Like 

Craig: for the, it’s just, it bothers me because this guy, Andre, the reporter or whatever, like he comes in and he seems like he’s going to be an important character.

And he is ultimately, but for the next 45 minutes, he’s really just kind of lingering like in the back. Like he’s, he’s always around, but he’s not really doing anything, but 

Todd: actually I liked that, like, unlike a lot of these pictures that we’ve seen where the reporter comes in and you see these in the American slashers too, like prom night and stuff, where the reporter comes in and he loves sort of becomes the detective.

This guy’s got his place. He’s not there all the time. He’s not buddy buddy with the police man, or he’s not like taking over the investigation or whatever. We see him equally, as much as we see the cops and the cops are, are happy to entertain his views and things, but he’s not like, you know, taking it upon himself to like figure out what’s going on, where the police are going wrong.

No, like everybody’s really quite invested in figuring out this case. And none of them are willing to accept the various, uh, red herrings that we can see a mile away that are coming at them, you know? And actually I thought that was quite refreshing because in a lot of these movies, the cops come in and then the most simple explanation that’s immediately presented to them.

They just go with right. And then that’s it. So then the cops are out of the picture and it’s up to the reporter or, you know, the concerned parent or whoever it is to solve the mystery because the cops are inept. Whereas in this case that that didn’t happen. Yeah. They, they were all just kinda like trying to figure shit out amongst all of them, you know?

Yeah. 

Craig: That’s true. And the police, you know, didn’t seem inept, you know, and they really were genuinely concerned and, and, and trying to solve this thing. The next thing that happens is, um, there’s a ransom call for this boy and it’s kind of a crazy, like they, they whoever’s demanding the ransom, um, asks for an insanely large 

Todd: accountability of the Lira or whatever, how much that was in the seventies.

Right. And. It’s probably 10 bucks who knows, who knows. 

Craig: Right. They set up a sting, uh, and it, and it turns out that the person who demanded the ransom was GSMP the town idiot. And so they catch him easily because of course he’s an idiot. So, you know, as soon as the drop is made, he goes to pick it up and they arrest him right away.

And then they find the boy buried in the woods, but he insists that he didn’t actually kill the boy. He found him and then he buried him and then the cops to deuce, well, maybe he’s telling the truth and he’s just an idiot and thought he could get some money. Um, but he’s the only suspect. And so he’s arrested and the town is virtually rioting outside, you know, the, the jail or whatever, and yelling and screaming at him as he’s brought out and driven out of town.

So there’s so there’s that like? Oh, okay. Well we solve it as GSMP and then. We are introduced kind of to this new character. This woman, uh, March Yara, I think is her name. And she is, as it turns out the woman from the first scene who was digging. Something that turned out to be a very, very small, like a baby skeleton and she’s watching, then they find one of the other boys Torino, an old woman finds him dead in like a public wash bin.

We see more hands burying the voodoo dolls. And I don’t know if this was intentional or not. I feel like it was, I feel like they do this all the time. The hands look very much like men’s hands now. I understand that people come in all shapes and sizes and that women can have large hands and hairy arms.

But like, it seems like there, it seems like they’re intentionally trying to mislead you, which I, I, at the time, like, okay, whatever, this could be anybody. Cause we’ve seen it before. We’ve seen. In these movies, what appear to obviously be men’s hands. And in the past, when we’ve seen these movies, they have been, they’ve often been the director’s hands.

Um, but in the movie, it turns out they belong to a beautiful woman which ends up happening. Here too. 

Todd: Yeah. The thing I like about this movie honestly, is that okay, first of all, I’ll say, I think it was too slow. It could have been 30 minutes shorter and I would have, if it were 30 minutes shorter, I would have liked it a lot better.

It really, really takes its time. And so that’s my first criticism as great as a cinematography is. And as easy to follow as the plot is, and honestly, I feel like it unfolded really in a very logical and believable manner. Nevertheless, it was a little slow, but we see a reveal eventually. And I liked this bit about it.

Like we see these hands bearing the dolls, but they don’t keep that a mystery for too long. You know, we, we see that this woman is actually the one bearing the doll. So you’re like, okay, like she’s got this vendetta against these boys at the very least, but. You’re also thinking, well, they’re not going to reveal the killer like this early on.

Right. So whatever she’s doing bearing these dolls, like, she can’t be the only piece of the puzzle. Right. But there’s also a priest who comes kind of in almost like Jesus when they uncover the body of the first boy. And oh yeah. That was weird. You was weird. And he’s got like a couple kids in tow group of them.

It’s like, they’re all like hanging around him. And he comes in and he like says some, you know, something over the corpse and whatnot and leaves. And then the reporter interviews him. And this guy’s really good looking. And he’s a pretty young, handsome priest. And they have a conversation in the town about the town, which I thought was, was nice.

And it works well towards the theme. Worried 

Craig: much about their immortal souls. They watch TV go to the movies. They read the papers with all the scandalous photographs, but you’re a reporter, aren’t you? Yes. I work for. Things like this happen and the world is shocked. You look for a culprit, but no one ever asks if the comfort is no, it wouldn’t be liberalism.

What can a poor priest do? Oh, I’m a friend of the news vendor and certain magazines aren’t sold here. In fact, they don’t even get here that he wants to protect them from vulgarity and temptation and stuff. And so like, and you know, he, he really seems like he’s, he’s young and he works with these, um, young boys.

Like, I think he’s like organized like a soccer league. It seems like to keep them occupied. So they’re not getting themselves in trouble. Uh, and he is, he is young and he is very handsome and, uh, you know, it, it seems like. Really seems like a really good guy. Like he really is trying to protect these people, uh, and, and protect these kids and look out for these kids.

I don’t know. I don’t remember how far we got McKayla. The movie makes it, see somebody calls McKayla late at night that he’s the last of the three boys. Somebody calls him late at night and says, sneak out of your house. Uh, and he does. And the 

Todd: movie he’s in the middle of the way of like he’s drawing boobies and he’s 

Craig: there.

And 

Todd: he was doing on the boards. Yeah. It was really weird. Just like kids thing, I guess. Yeah. 

Craig: So he does, and the movie makes it look like. It’s Patricia, that calls him. And he’s the one. Right? And he’s the one who has already had that experience with her. And so he goes out and he’s like running through their woods and there’s somebody following him like an old man with a size.

And he hides from the old man and the old man passes him by. And then he’s waiting in a particular place, like next to this crucifix. And we get a POV shot of somebody approaching him. And as this person approaches him, he smiles as though he recognizes the person and then his face gets very fearful and then he gets killed.

Uh, 

Todd: all these people, all these kids are more or less strangled, I think. Right? 

Craig: Yeah. They are like, they might be knocked out first or they might appear like one of them appeared to have drowned, but they think that maybe he was actually strangled and then just put in the water. Yeah. They think it’s strangulation for some reason.

Patricia gets questioned by the police. I don’t remember why we see that it is mochi Yara, who has the voodoo dolls, and then we’re at Mikaela’s funeral and we’re introduced to some other random woman who like is mysterious in the town. Her name is, uh, realia abalone and she’s the priest’s mom. And she also has another little girl named Malvina, who they say over and over again is retarded.

Now we don’t really use that. I don’t know that that’s even necessarily like a medical diagnosis anymore, but she she’s deaf and dumb. She can’t communicate. And we’re like, okay, random. But of course she’s pivotal later, but at the funeral, um, McKayla’s mom screams. The killer is here with us. I know it. And both Patricia and matchy are a look, all shade.

And mochi are a runs away. And then, like I thought this was one of the coolest parts of the movie in Italian on the screen. It says in act one, and then it says, act. Yeah. Like, all right. 

Todd: That was interesting. Right. And there was never an act three was there. It was cool. I mean, it just marked a turning point of the movie.

That was odd though. I’ve never seen that before, 

Craig: neither, but it is. I mean, it’s appropriate because then the movie takes a totally weird turn. The police have been watching the funeral, so they see mochi are run out and they think that’s suspicious. And one of the cops, the local cops, I guess like, oh yeah, that’s just much Yara.

Everybody thinks she’s a witch, but only because she lives out in the woods with old Francesco the magician.

Todd: Right? So 

Craig: the cops visit old Francesco, the, the 

Todd: magician. Who’s also shady. 

Craig: He’s totally shady. And who was the old guy in the world? Like chasing the boy he’s carving what look like voodoo dolls. And they’re looking for much yard. He says, I haven’t seen her in two weeks. I don’t have any idea where she is.

Um, excuse me. I say 

Todd: crap literally says that

it probably sounds better in Italian

Craig: so the cops don’t know what to think about that. They they’re still looking for much Yara, but as they’re leaving, they see Patrice SIA arrive at old Francesco, but they don’t do anything about that yet. Then some woman, I think it’s supposed to be a real. Yeah, it calls the cops and says, she knows where much Archie Yara is.

And they, they go where they’ve been told to go and it’s like a cave and they find the cave. She is runoff. They find her baby’s skeleton and the cops like, oh yeah, that must be her devil.

Todd: You’re absolutely right. This is, yeah. This is a weakness of,

oh, by the way, there’s. The story about this girl at her devil babies. So apparently much Yara and Francesco had a thing. And, uh, she got pregnant and 

Craig: so they sent her to him because she had the devil inside her and then he’s, and then he says, and somehow he got the devil out of her, but she also got pregnant.

Todd: She also got a little him insider,

but you know, to be honest, like. Small towns are full of this stuff, right? It’s just rumors and an old stories and like gossip about everybody in this guy and this woman and all these things, I felt like in the telling of these kinds of ridiculous things, it did paint a picture again, that has been reinforced throughout the movie of this backwater Italian insular town, where everybody knows everybody’s secrets, you know, like how 

Craig: could this kind of generations upon generations of people and yeah, I mean, yeah, I get that.

But uh, eventually the cops, they find her and they. And she confesses immediately to the murders. She says that she killed them. And her reason was that they had disturbed her son’s grave, which was where she had been digging in the beginning of the movie. And she had caught them doing it once. And she had warned them that if they did it again, she would break them.

Um, but then like she also just kind of offhandedly admits that she didn’t physically kill them. She had asked the old magician. How to do it. And she had used the dolls and then in explaining all of these, she goes completely crazy and starts screaming, convulsing and foaming at the mouth. And when she wakes up, she explains like the ritual that she did and it had to do with the voodoo dolls.

And there was a whole thing about it, but she says, um, you have to call on these devils. And there are 13 devils and they infect somebody by going into their mouth. And then that person actually does the killing and she says, it can be anybody, a man or a woman. So then I’m thinking, you know, like who, who 

Todd: got.

Devil mouth devil mouth

Craig: I’m 13 devil’s came in somebody’s mouth and

Todd: Greg, I, that feels like another movie I’ve seen before

more modern. But, but honestly, the thing I liked about this was that the whole time, as I said before, I feel like the cops are appropriately skeptical. Like they’re not really taking anything at face value, even when this woman, even when Giuseppe w Eva, when these people sort of couldn’t confess to the crime, they’re always kind of like, yeah.

Do you really think so? And that was really refreshing. Like, you know, they, weren’t the stupid cops who think they closed the case every second, you know, it felt more real because of that, because these cops, they know the town, right? Like they know these people, they’re a part of it. And they’re part of it yet.

They’re somewhat detached from it. Like they’re quite critical of the town. I feel like it’s the character of the reporter from outside, right? The big city reporter comes in for the big city newspaper who talks to the cops about it. And they sort of have to explain to him, look, these are sort of simple people.

They’re all these like rumors and all these sorts of things. And, and it’s just a little different from what you’re used to. Like the cops know that half the people they’re talking to were kind of crazy, you know, 

Craig: And, and crazy mochi Yara, you know, they’re like, oh, so you just did a spell. Okay. So they let her go.

And, uh, she is, you know, like the towns, women are spitting on her as she’s walking down the street, she ends up, I think she’s headed back to her cave. I don’t know. But she, uh, she ends up, you know, walking by the cemetery where she’s confronted by these men. And I assume that these are townsmen. I didn’t recognize any of them.

Why was the 

Todd: father of the Bruno? That’s what I thought. I thought these are 

Craig: probably, at least some of them are probably the fathers of the boys that were killed. Um, and this is the scene that I was talking about. She can’t get away from them. Four or five, six of them. I don’t know. And her hand gets slammed in a gate and her knuckles get all scraped up, which, you know, sucks.

But then she’s brutally beaten by them and the effects look really good and disgusting, but probably I wouldn’t go with real, not realistic, like, like, like her injuries are even more. Upsetting and, and gross then they probably realistically would be, 

Todd: um, but read in that bloody 

Craig: and like right in there, oozing like blood and puss immediately.

And I have to say, it really did. As far as practical effects are concerned, it looks really good. And it really did kind of turn my stomach. 

Todd: Look, I thought this was the most disturbing scene in the movie. I mean, yeah, I actually, I thought it was a brilliant scene. You, you can see it coming a mile away.

She’s walking there. She sees these guys on the horizon. She’s kind of goes into this little cemetery area, which is enclosed and there’s this dude up on the, on the hill. And he turns the car radio up really, really high to the song. And you’re like, oh shit, these guys are going to beat the hell out of her.

And they do, but they approach her slowly. It takes its time. She knows it’s coming and they’re, it’s, they’re also sort of joyless about it. You know, it’s like, you can see in their faces like this is, I mean, it’s vigilante justice, you know, it’s we’re we got to do what we got to do. We’re not happy about it, but you murdered our children and this, the cops aren’t going to do anything about it.

So we’re going to do something and there’s a chain and there’s a thing. And it is it’s effects aside. It is brutal. And it’s heartbreaking, especially, especially when you consider this. Has been through a lot of shit herself. Like she lost a child she’s grieving. I mean, she’s crazy, but she doesn’t deserve what’s coming to her and they hit her and it really bothered me.

And I thought it was also quite telling that in this movie, the full, she, of all people, this is one of the two scenes that he chooses to really dwell upon the gore. Right? Like you said, everything else is like off screen. The kids are getting killed and other, and like, we don’t see it really, but this, we see in gruesome detail, uh, slowly, and it, God, it lasts at least five minutes.

It’s, it’s hard to watch 

Craig: way. Like I thought surely they were going to kill her. And ultimately they do because she succumbed to her injuries, but they. You know, like they don’t ensure that she’s dead before they leave. So I don’t even know if it was necessarily their intention to kill her. I 

Todd: don’t know.

Um, I feel like they wanted a torch her in a way like, oh my God, it’s an execution really. 

Craig: Right. But she’s not immediately dead. She ends up, uh, crawling her way to the highway and, and all these cars pass by. I think some of them, 

Todd: no, that’s the other thing. Right. She looks up at these cars and some of them clearly see her and just look away.

Like nobody gives a shit about her. That was the worst part that was like the icing on the cake. And then one of the last bits she sees, looks in the car and sees children in there. And I’m 

Craig: pretty sure one of them was Malvina wasn’t it? You’re right. 

Todd: You’re right. But like, my God, like in that second, I was just like this woman, this.

Woman. She lost her child now. She’s, she’s been beaten by these people. Nobody gives a shit. Nobody’s going to stop for her. She sees his children in the car and it was like, oh God, man, that was hard. That was a tough scene. 

Craig: It sucks. Um, it does. I don’t know it well, and that’s the thing, but that’s the thing.

Like, we don’t really get to know her enough. Like she’s gorgeous. She’s 

Todd: a crazy person as far as we’re concerned. Right. That’s 

Craig: it right? Like she’s just this crazy lady. We that’s all we know. Then there’s a whole scene where Martelli the, uh, reporter meets Patrizia the Vixen on the street and Patrizia has a scene with Malvina Malvina the little new girl is walking around with a headless doll, which I thought was weird.

And Patricia is like, oh look, your dolls lost its head. And the she and the reporter has to explain to her that Malvina, doesn’t understand what she’s saying because she’s deaf and mute and slow and. But Patricia is like, oh, well, I’m going to go get her a new doll. And, and then, you know, the reporter in poetry to kind of make a connection, but it’s really brief.

And Patricia goes to get Malvina new doll, but she like grabs her by the wrist and starts pulling her away. And Malvina is clearly scared of her. Like this stranger lady is like dragging you somewhere. But again, I just felt like, oh, Uh, shady Patricia, what’s going on. Um, then we cut to these two young boys who are on their way to the hooker house.

Todd: One of them gets cold feet, 

Craig: right. But the other one basically calls him a pussy and uh, keeps going. So the other boy goes back and he’s acting all Solomon morose on the soccer field. And, uh, the, the priest comes out and the other boys confessed. What are you talking about? He went to the haunted house alone.

Then Alberto, the boys go there because, because certain females go there. You’re just boys, 

Todd: boys not ask. 

Craig: He goes, yeah, that’s all I told him not to go. Cause he might get glued by the cup, by the monster. That’s what I said. I swear that he said there wasn’t any more stuff. He said nothing would happen because my shadow is dead.

The mud, the murders day. How stupid can you be? People commit an act of folly 

Todd: and there’s the result. 

Craig: My idiot. Isn’t scared of going all the way up there because my child is dead and buried. Peanut. No one’s ever been killed because of magic. No one it’s all nonsense. He goes to look for him. 

Todd: And this is the point by the way, this is the point where I started to think, okay, something’s going on 

Craig: here?

I, I didn’t because, and I have to, I guess I have to give, I should know better. I should know better when. These Italian filmmakers are making things so pointedly obvious that it’s a mislead because Mario comes across, Patricia is car that has a flat tire. She asks him if he knows how to change a tire.

And he says he does, and she says, I’ll pay you. And he asks if she has like a Jack or something like that. And she’s like, would you rather be paid with money or with a kiss? And literally like the split second after she says that we see his dead body face down. Oh, in like 

Todd: a Creek in a movie that’s full of fantastic transitions.

That was a great transition. 

Craig: And see, but I feel like from this point on, it felt like they needed to make the movie go faster because the editing started getting so choppy, like. Scene scene, scene, scene, like, and it would, it would cut from one scene that didn’t really seem to necessarily even conclude into another scene that it felt like we were picking up in the middle of something like in the middle of a conversation.

It was a little bit jarring. Now, maybe that was intentional. I don’t, well, 

Todd: this particular cut was very jarring, but that was certainly intentional because I thought it was very impactful. Do you want to, do you want to pay me, you know, do you want me to pay with the money or would you like a kiss boom and musical cue and the kids face down in the water and the CR the woman’s gone and the police are pulling his body up and I’m thinking of, okay, so here’s the deal like a whole lot of stuff went down.

In that split second, right. Something happened between her and him. She’s now gone. The priest was on his way there. And what came about that. And then the cops are talking and they say something about how the priest found him in the water. And they’re like, well, do you want to talk to him? Like, well, once the media gets done with him, cause he’s surrounded by them right 

Craig: now.

And I was like, well, the priest is there and he’s like crying over the body and stuff. 

Todd: Really? I 

Craig: think, I think so. Um, cause it was the priest found him. 

Todd: That’s how the, but we were alerted. No, no. 

Craig: We just saw when the cops arrived or when. And then, you know, I feel like quite a bit happens like the, uh, uh, the reporter finds a lighter at the crime scene.

He takes it to Patricia and says, I found your lighter. And she’s like, oh, thank goodness. It was crazy 

Todd: expensive. Same time he’s been, uh, in her house. It’s one of those classic scenes where he’s getting in her house before she is. And he’s looked at her table and found a book of magic on there. Right? 

Craig: Yeah.

I didn’t, I don’t speak Italian. So I didn’t know what the book 

Todd: was. It was something, something Magica, uh, Craig, just, just to let you know, I know I don’t speak Italian either, but 

Craig: the police are still interested in for treats yet, even though they don’t know anything about the lighter at the crime scene, they, they found holes in her story about the night that McKayla died and she tells, uh, the reporter.

She didn’t have anything to do with it. She swears. And um, so then like the two of them like pair up, like they’re going to investigate it now and randomly there’s a picture of what, what would you 

Todd: call it? Like, yeah, like a, like a, like a vigil type of like, um, like, you know, when, when P when somebody dies by the side of the road and everybody piles of flowers there, something like that.

Right. 

Craig: Right. And Patrizia notices the head of Donald duck and she’s like, oh my God, I bought that little dumb girl, a Donald duck doll, and that’s its head. And they’re like, well, let’s go back 

Todd: to find the rest of the doll. Yeah. That didn’t make a lot of sense. Right. Like, I didn’t quite catch the significance of that.

Like there, I think what it turns out to be is they’re suspicious thinking the girl was at the scene. Uh, you know, at some point when the body was right, when the person was killed, when the boy was killed by the basin somehow, but the timing doesn’t add up and that’s a big stretch, I mean, right. 

Craig: Well, and they, and they go there and they don’t find the Donald duck, but they do find another headless doll and 

Todd: like just, well, they find it ahead of the doll she was carrying around.

Yeah. 

Craig: And the conclusion that they come to is that she must have witnessed the murder, which was a strangulation. And she tried to emulate it with her doll, but she popped the doll’s 

Todd: head off. Yeah. It’s a bit of a stretch. Right. 

Craig: And they’re like, oh, look, she lives right there, which is like, just across the street.

And remember she’s the younger sister of. The priest and the daughter of the mysterious, a really a lady. So they go over there and they talk to the priest and the priest is like, oh my gosh, that’s really interesting and weird. And we need to figure this out. But the mom is like, it couldn’t have been her because the murder happened at night.

How do they know that? I don’t know. And she’s like, and we lock the doors at night specifically so that she can’t go out. So they don’t know. But, uh, they go like the, the reporter and Patricia go back to her place to like, think about it. And S and the priest calls them and is like, have you seen my mom?

And Malvina cause they’re gone. And they’re like, no, we haven’t seen them. So now they think that the mom has something to do with it. And that she’s probably taking the little girl to kill her so that she can’t like implicate or tell her. Yeah. So they go looking for her and apparently know to look for her in these Hills.

And, uh, she is there. She is leading the little girl up the hill they’re in pursuit. Um, and the next thing we see is like they’re hiding or realia and Malvina are hiding in like this stone little cabin or something. And the priest comes in and that’s when I figured it out. I didn’t really understand the motive that I’m like, oh, it was the priest obviously.

And the priest grabs the little girl and there’s a scuffle. I mean, it’s still not entirely like you think you could think maybe the priest is there to try to save his sister from his crazy mom, but we really don’t even know enough about his mom to know why she would have any motive. Either. There’s a struggle.

He takes the little girl out and he carries her towards this cliff and he’s going to throw her off the cliff, but. The reporter and Patrizia intervene. There’s a big fight, you know, and it goes on for a little while, this, this big fight, but eventually the priest gets thrown off the cliff

Todd: and, and he falls down the cliff. Now I’ve got to say, I admire the attempt at making the priest’s death pretty gruesome and probably for the time and with the budget they had to work with or whatever this was the best they could pull off. But it ends up looking really hokey, 

Craig: really hokey, like before, before he even hits anything.

Like, as he’s just flying in through the air, it’s clearly. Uh, dummy and like his, his face. Yeah. His face already looks off and yeah, it’s weird. And then he starts hitting every rock on the wall of where is cliff and his face is getting ripped off. I agree with you. I appreciate the attempt. And you know, as far as practical effects go, it’s really not any worse than some other things that we’ve seen in these kinds of movies, but it’s in broad daylight.

And I mean, it’s obviously, and, and the dummy, the dummy is just flopping around in a totally inorganic way. It’s pretty silly. But then the motive is explained. He said before, actually he explains it before he gets thrown off the cliff. He says, these little boys are little. My brothers, I love them and I want to protect their virtue and the only way to protect their virtue and save their souls is to kill them before, before they can tarnish their souls through sin.

And like, it seems like he. Feels that way. And we get flashbacks of like the boys, you know, going to the hooker house and stuff like, and that’s the whole reason that he set up the soccer league. And like, in his mind it just seems legit. Like he’s really trying to do that. There’s even a scene after he dies of all of the dead children in all white playing soccer.

And he in his priest robes walks up to them and they all surround him and hug him. It’s a very Christ like image. So it seems like for whatever reason, he legit thought that he was doing something righteous, but obviously he was just crazy. Now my question is, is the implication that 13 devil’s came in his mouth.

Todd: I need to know. Honestly you point out like, uh, I don’t think so. I mean, this is, to me a weakness of the plot, which is pretty typical of these geologists has long this big stretch. Okay. Maybe there was some actual magic at play, perhaps there was, but this guy’s got a motive that stretches straight into his personality.

Right. So I don’t really think so. So the issue I have with that is this red herring of this woman who happens to have a beef with three of these boys and. Pokes through these, you know, goes to the magician, gets his, gets her voodoo dolls, buries them. And then these three boys happened to be the next three boys that the priest kills.

That is a huge coincidence, right? Unless like you said, you can explain it by the magic. Maybe that’s exactly what happened is that she, the voodoo activated the priest and then he went crazy and started doing this. 

Craig: It would still be a big coincidence. However, we know from the very beginning that those three boys were engaging in behavior that the priest would see as indecent.

So if he was aware of that and it just happened to be those three boys, because they were honoring that they got mixed up with. Marciana and he knew that they were doing stuff they shouldn’t be doing. It makes sense. It’s still a pretty big coincidence, but it does make 

Todd: sense. It could happen. And that’s good enough really, to the plot of a movie that we’re watching for entertainment.

I’m sorry. I really enjoyed this movie except for the fact that it was a little long. Like I was checking my watch about an hour and 20 in, and it’s an hour and 48 minutes. I think it could have been shortened by about 30 minutes. It didn’t need to be quite so slow, but actually I was pretty engaged with the plot because unlike a lot of the other jello that we watch, it’s quite easy to follow and it actually makes sense most of the time.

And I was pretty proud of myself for actually kind of seeing the killer coming. I even kind of figured out his motive really. I felt, oh, this priest is somehow trying to protect the purity of these boys. And I mean, because it’s kind of thrown in our faces for a while that these boys. So horny, but I mean, that’s not atypical boys, but it’s a, it’s a, it’s a major, you know, element of the movie.

And then next to that, this whole conversation about the town and the town being kind of very, very concerned about the purity and the conversations the priest has. I think at that moment, I, I think I was able to put two and two together and I was like, yeah, I think it might actually be that guy that we haven’t seen for most of the film, but he has a better motive than probably anybody else to do this you’re right.

That, and I didn’t even think about it that there’s not a central character in this whole movie. And that’s, that’s really interesting actually. And the woman is still ends, ends the movie. Okay. She’s not implicated in anything, but she’s still pretty fricking mysterious this like sex plot woman who’s coming on to little boys.

Uh, but again, I just enjoyed watching it. I really, really enjoy. The atmosphere being able to follow the plot, kind of being able to more or less figure out who did it. And again, the cinematography was great. It was well filmed. I think it was well acted and honestly, a little refreshing to see this plot that seemed more realistic to me than most of the others where the cops are appropriately skeptical at every turn.

They know, this town is weird. They’re not willing to really willing to buy anybody’s story. And so they’re always kind of keeping an eye open to the, to the next possibility and pursue that lead. And it wasn’t like the reporter came in and solved the whole mystery for everybody. I mean, he kind of figures it out at the end.

He’s kind of a key figure in, in, in, in, at the end, but it’s not because he’s smart and everybody else is stupid. You know, he just happens to be at the right place at the right time. I mean, it was just really nice. I really enjoyed it and I can see why full cheese says this is his favorite film of his entire career.

I think it hit good notes. Was it perfect? No, the effects were a little silly, uh, at times, but I. Yeah, 

Craig: I didn’t, 

Todd: well, neither did the Catholic church. The movie was originally released obviously in Europe and, but it had a very limited release because of the subject matter. Um, they were more sensitive times.

And so, uh, because it dealt with these themes of the, of the priests and the Catholic church and whatnot, like it was kind of blacklisted and it never even was released in the states. Uh, it wasn’t until it was available on 

Craig: TV or 

Todd: something. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So. Crazy, right? Yeah, it 

Craig: is. It really is. Cause it’s really not all that offensive.

No, I mean, it, it just happens that the bad guy is a Catholic priest. Like it’s not really because you 

Todd: know, it’s not really Catholic religion. Right, right. 

Craig: Just so happens. But whatever. Yeah. No, I, I didn’t love it, but you know, I just am not a huge fan of these types of movies that being said, you have made me watch a couple that I have ended up enjoying opera comes to mind.

I think I liked that one. Um, And there have been some other ones, uh, that I’ve been intrigued and surprised by. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s just not my favorite genre, but you’re right. I don’t disagree with you. I, I think that it’s not poorly made it’s the acting is fine. It’s competent. And if you are a fan of these types of movies, especially full CI, I guess you should check it out because he says it’s his favorite of his movies.

It’s I didn’t particularly care for it. Like I agree with you. I think it was too long. I was kind of bored. I just so many red herrings at some point, I’m just rolling my eyes like, oh, come on. Jeez. Um, but whatever beautiful women. The priest was hot. 

Todd: It was a little something for everybody. 

Craig: Yeah. I wouldn’t go so far as to say I hated it, but just not my cup of tea.

That’s all 

Todd: fair enough. Fair enough. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. We would love to hear what you think about giallo movies. Should we do a few more? I I’m. I have a short list. It’s shorter than Craig realizes of Jell-O movies that I want to subject him to before I’m done with the torture and I have to find another way to torture him here on this show.

Uh, find us online. If you just Google two guys and a chainsaw, you can find our Facebook. Our website and our Twitter feeds and leave us a message in any of those places. Let us know what you think of this episode and any other films you would like to do in the future until next time. I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

This week’s entry comes straight from Netflix. One of those rare Italian horror movies that Craig himself suggested, which starts out as an homage to classic horror movies and takes a sudden left turn.

We both loved the movie! So you should go to Netflix, watch it right away, and then come back and listen. Because we got a LOT of spoilin’ ta do…

A Classic Horror Story (2021)

Episode 276, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: I don’t even know how to start. Don’t have any themes. It’s not a request. It’s purely from our own imaginations.

Todd: You take full responsibility for this one.

Craig: Yeah, I do. I don’t remember why, but for whatever reason, I was just kinda looking through, like I subscribed. Pretty much every streaming service that there is now. And so I was just looking through all of them at their horse selections and seeing things that looked interesting. And I came across a bunch of stuff that actually looked interesting, but something that stood out was from Netflix.

Uh, it’s a Netflix exclusive it, I don’t think it’s a Netflix production. I just think that they got the rights to it. It’s actually an Italian film called A Classic Horror Story.

Todd: Big surprise there, you choosing an Italian movie. I almost dropped my computer. What I said.

Craig: I know. Well, don’t think that I didn’t have it in mind that you would appreciate that, 

Todd: But it’s a modern Italian film.

Craig: It is. And that’s the thing like you love old stuff and I do too. I really do, but I also really like keeping up with new stuff. And this is a 2021 film made in Italy. The version that I watched, which I assume is the one that you watch, correct me if I’m wrong was the one that is available on Netflix and it’s dubbed or subtitled, 

Todd: you can choose.

Craig: Oh, see. And I didn’t even know that, like, it just popped up dubbed for me. And so that’s what I watched. Usually when I watch foreign films, I prefer to watch them in the original language with subtitles, just because. Kind of prefer to see the actual performance, but whatever. I mean, it was dubbed and, uh, the dubbing was not amazing, but, uh, it was fine.

Todd: Well, it’s for the course, really, as watching an Italian horror movie, that’s dubbed into English, you know, when does that ever happen? That’s true. 

Craig: But it’s, it’s also been a while since we’ve done a foreign film. I feel like the premise, even though, you know, all I did was I read the little blurb on Netflix and I did the same thing.

I went to MDB and read the blurb and it sounded fairly interesting. And so I thought, you know, why not? You know, apropos of nothing, why not pick this movie? And so I did and we watched it, I really had very few expectations going in. I had seen some of the images, I watched the trailer, but I was really just kind of intrigued by.

The title, really a classic horror story. I mean, if you’re gonna, if you’re going to name your movie that that kind of set some expectations and, uh, I wanted to see what it was all about. But apart from that, I knew nothing about it. I had never heard of it. I just happened upon it, scrolling through Netflix.

And so I watched it and here we are the, I, I assume. You had never heard of 

Todd: this? Well, you know, me, I mean, aside from what happens to pop up and get recommended my Netflix queue, I don’t really stay on top of, I guess I shouldn’t admit here that we’ve had a long running horror podcast. Uh you’re right. I tend to gravitate towards the old stuff and not the new stuff.

I don’t keep up really, as much as you do with all the latest news and horror movies, I like to kind of wait and see if they’re proven before I’m going to sit down and take my time with them. Except unless there’s some buzz around it, you know, like the newest, whatever Jordan peals, putting out, um, Ari, Asher, those kinds of things.

So, no, but, uh, just like you, as soon as you proposed it and I pulled it up and I saw that it was an Italian production and also that a classic horror story is written in that font. That looks like a throwback to horror movies from the seventies, which was kind of a golden age. I think of horror films, one of them anyway.

So I got kind of excited about it and I feel like starting to watch the movie, there was a lot of clearly intentional Amash, both to Italian films and to classic American horror films from that era. So I had a lot, I really went into it with a pretty open mind and pretty excited. I actually watched the subtitled version with the original Italian.

I don’t think, I don’t know what kind of a difference that really makes, but, uh, so yeah, no, I hadn’t heard of it before. And thanks for putting me in the direction of it, Craig, I think we’ve got a lot to talk about here. It, you know, One of the reasons why I liked the older horror movies is that a lot of times they’re just kind of goofy and they don’t put me in a sad, depressing state necessarily.

Obviously there are exceptions, especially from this era, honestly like the seventies for horror tended to be FA fairly bleak nihilistic films. A lot of times with these Grindhouse productions, which mirrored, what was kind of going on with the indie world at Hollywood at the time, really, and the Vietnam war and just the world was kind of a sad place.

This now being a kind of a, I don’t want to make it sound too depressed. I don’t always feel the best every day. You know, what’s going on in the world now and just, it’s kind of a weird time. And so I like to see those old, goofy eighties horror films, because I know they’re going to be silly and I know I could laugh at them.

And then you got to go and throw another bleak sort of nihilistic movie at me that by the time I’m done watching it, I’m like, oh, now I feel like I need to take a shower and I’m not. And my stomach’s going to be turning knots for the next day or two until till we finished talking about this and I get it out of my system.

Craig: Thanks a lot, Craig, you say that if you read the synopsis, it will tell you that it’s this group of people on a road trip and they get stranded and they end up in like this Backwoods kind of. Area and they kind of run into what ends up being a cult. And that is, is fairly typical. I mean, we’ve seen these movies, whether, you know, whether it be a Colt or hillbillies or deforms people in a nuclear, nuclear fallout space or whatever, 

Todd: you know, 

Craig: it’s Timmy.

Yeah. Right. A group of people, whether they be, you know, a group. College kids or high school kids, which is very typical or a family. I mean, this definitely has to me. And like, like you said, I think that there are a lot of throwbacks, but it had some very Hills have eyes kind of vibes to it 

Todd: is wrong. Turn Texas chainsaw, massacre, bunch of people in a van tripping across the country kind of thing.

Craig: And so when I got a little bit into it and I saw that that was kind of what it was going to be, like, I thought, okay, you know, you did this to yourself. It called it a classic horror story. And that’s what it’s going to be. It’s going to be typical though. I thought it was good. And though I was entertained and know I was invested in some of the characters I thought, oh, Man, I kinda missed an opportunity.

I could’ve picked something a little bit more unique. You know, this is, you know, it is what it is and it’s it’s well done. And I will say that for the movie and like the cinematography and actually the cinematography is quite 

Todd: beautiful. And especially for a director that really hasn’t done much before this just a bunch of shorts.

Craig: Really? Yeah. I looked at it. It’s directed by two men, Robert to fail and Palo stir poli. And you’re like you said, both of them have very limited resumes. So for people like this, it’s certainly an impressive outing. It’s largely filmed outdoors in. This beautiful mountainous forest landscape and the cinematography looks great, but the story I thought was typical.

You know, like I’ve seen this movie before little, did I know that that was the ruse and that’s what ultimately, ultimately I walked away from the movie thinking, you know what? That was pretty clever. And I don’t want to, you know, I’m sure we’ll get into the plot here in a second. So I don’t want to give anything away, but there is a, there’s a major twist, a huge twist that honestly, even though it is projected, like in hindsight, the twist is projected.

I didn’t see it coming at all until about 10 seconds before the reveal, about 10 seconds before the reveal. Wait a minute.

Todd: Exactly. So our standard warning goes out to everybody. If you’re at all interested in seeing this movie now, after hearing us tease it a little bit, then turn off the podcast right now, go out and watch it. Cause we’re about to spoil everything 

Craig: for you. So I guess, uh, you, you know, honestly, my, my favorite thing to do.

On the show is to look up stuff that I like behind the scenes stuff that we can talk about and share. And because this movie is so new, I just, I couldn’t find much of anything. You know, I could find, uh, viewer reviews and I enjoyed reading those. And, and I didn’t look at them before I watched the movie, but, you know, I read them after and it was fun to read those.

And I agreed with many of them. But beyond that, I couldn’t find a whole lot about the production or anything like that. So be ready for maybe kind of plot heavy episode, but we’ll see, I guess, you know, we don’t play on this stuff, so we’ll see what happens. Um, we’ll see how much we have to say about the plot.

Cause, cause it is fairly typical kind of until the end, but oh, the other thing that I wanted to say to you is. That I really not still entirely sure what was going on. So maybe you can enlighten me when we get near to the end. Oh, funny. I had the same 

Todd: feeling. Well, hopefully we have to the two missing pieces to this puzzle in each of our hands.

We can put it together. 

Craig: The opening scene. Opens in your fairly typical, what looks like the interior of maybe a cabin, very cabin in the woods, very evil, dead with, you know, a deer head on the wall. And then it pans to this table where this girl is strapped down, you know, with these heavy leather straps, she’s bloody clearly in distress.

And then we see these boots walking towards her, dragging the primitive looking heavy mallet looks like it’s made out of like a tree stump or something with terror in her eyes. You know, she lies there as this masked figure raises the mallet above her head and swings. No, we don’t see what happens. We don’t see the impact.

It had immediately cuts backwards. And I don’t remember if it gave us a timestamp or anything like that. Cuts back. It 

Todd: does. It just cuts back, but also there’s an eyeball that’s. You can kind of see through a knot in the wood that seems to be working in it. What’s going on. It looked like a, kind of a throwback to black Christmas or some of the Lucille folchi movies where he seems to be kind of obsessed with this kind of thing with the eyes and whatnot.

Craig: So, but, but the, I looking through the wall also appears to be watching in horror. Like the sense that I got was that somebody was hidden. Presumably another quote, unquote, good guy. Hidden. Yeah. Watching this happen to somebody they know, but that’s all we get. And then it cuts back and we’re introduced to our main character, Elisa, who is in a diner.

She has a phone conversation with, I presume her mother. Well, first of all, we see her throwing up in the bathroom and like, oh, she’s pregnant because that’s how movies tell us women are pregnant 

Todd: cinematic language for pregnancy. You’re absolutely right. Actually it just, just spans all genres. Cause I was just playing the last of us two on PS4 and exactly the same thing happens.

There’s a twist that is projected a mile away because one of the characters keeps throwing up, 

Craig: especially, you know, like we’re both men feel like they have to project that to men. Like women only vomit if they’re 

Todd: pregnant, otherwise they do not vomit. They do not. This doesn’t happen. They don’t sweat either or smell.

Oh 

Craig: man. Alright. So she throws up and then she has a conversation with her mom, I guess these are you okay. It’s the second time I’ve thrown up. You need to eat something. Sweetheart. Surgery is scheduled for tomorrow. At two, the doctor says you have to be in good shape. It’s tomorrow. Why do you want to wait?

You’re on trial at work, at least as your can’t afford to have a baby. Yes, I know. It’s the best thing to do. And it seems like Alisa is a little bit hesitant. But this is the plan. And then she gets a text on her phone from her rideshare driver. Yeah. It took me a second to figure this out, but that’s what it is.

She’s traveling to the town where she’s going to have her abortion, presumably where her family lives and she’s doing a ride share. And then we are introduced to the other people in the ride share. And Fabrizio is the driver. But he’s also an aspiring filmmaker and he’s goofy. He’s the chubby kind, you know, like not stereotypical Hollywood, good-looking guy, not an ugly guy per se, but you know, sets him apart from, you know, you have to.

The chubby silly 

Todd: guy. Yeah. He’s, he’s the stereotypical, chubby, silly, goofy guy who you see in all the horror movies who usually dies about halfway through, 

Craig: but you know, who also typically has insight, the cinematic knowledge and insight. Right? Exactly. Very typical. And he’s making a video and he’s intrude, you know, he’s videoing all of these other people in the ride share and getting them to introduce themselves.

He says that he’s making this like for a travel blog for Instagram or something. And he does this, this, this, his thing. So we’re introduced to Sophia and mark who are a young couple who are on their way to a wedding. Sophia. I didn’t write down any of these actors names because they’re all Italian actors who I have no familiarity with.

I didn’t recognize any of them from anything. Yeah. Yeah. Only 

Todd: mark has been in much. Uh, and he was, he’s been into quite a bit of TV. Gotcha. 

Craig: That’s it. Sophia is stunningly beautiful in the girl next door way. She’s petite and has long blonde hair and maybe the most striking blue eyes I’ve ever seen. Like, just like they they’re like sapphires, they just glow they’re 

Todd: gorgeous.

Yeah. But to be fair, Elisa’s brown eyes are just like glass, like big glassy, gorgeous brown eyes. Both of these women have incredible eyes. I couldn’t 

Craig: believe it. Yeah. And there, you know, big surprise, beautiful girls in a horror movie. Yeah. And mark is, you know, a good looking guy. He’s a red head and, uh, he’s kind of, he’s kind of goofy too, but likable and they’re cute little cup.

Todd: So because you watch the dubbed version, you might be interested to know that mark is the only one who speaks English in that group. I don’t know if that came through for you, but yeah, everyone else is speaking in Italian and he’s speaking in English because he’s actually from. Was he from somewhere in the UK?

I believe his girlfriend Sophia was from oh, some island country. What was it true? She said she was studying in Italy for something, she met mark while they were studying in school somewhere. I can’t remember what, but yeah, so he’s actually speaking English in the movie and trying out his Italian, um, the guy, when they do speak with him, they do switch to English every now and then to kind of help him out.

So, uh, there’s, there’s a little bit of English being spoken back and forth as well and Mark’s presence in tomorrow. 

Craig: Gotcha. Well, and again, like he’s kinda, he’s kinda goofy. It’s one of those things where like, he seems kind of like a project boyfriend, like she’s maybe a little bit too good for him, but he has charm, you know, maybe she can fix him.

I don’t know. Anyway. And then there’s also Ricardo, uh, who introduces himself as a doctor. And he says that he’s traveling to see family and he looks just like, I think his name is Dermot Mulroney. The guy from, um, my best friend’s wedding. Is that his name? I don’t know, looks very much like that. American actor, um, in consequential, he’s a doctor.

He looks a little like he’s got stubble. He looks a little rough. He looks like he’s going through something. Uh, 

Todd: Pissed off, you know, he’s the guy, you know, when you’re feeling that, that feeling, when you call an Uber and you get in the car and you really are not in the mood to talk with anybody, but the Uber driver is ultra chatty and wants to start talking with you.

And you’re like, you just want to say, God, can you please just shut up? That’s like this guy in this ride share group, I think he doesn’t want to be chatting with anyone. He just wants to get where 

Craig: he’s going. So me too, like I haven’t done a ride share and forever, like, do people still do ride shares? Like does, does Uber even still like in the, in the time of Corona, like, it just, it just seems so crazy to get into a car with a stranger who there’s a good 75% chance they’re going to be drunk.

Todd: Well, you know, Didi actually, which is the Chinese version of Uber fun fact used to have a ride share option, carpooling option. They called it and they had to stop it because there were a couple high profile cases where personal. Getting murdered. So they quit that whole program entirely. 

Craig: I’ve only done it once or twice.

I mean, I live in a small town and have a car, so there’s no reason for me to use Uber. But when I’ve traveled into larger cities, I’ve done Uber and I’ve done ride share, but I’m the Ricardo, like I’m not here to make friends 

Todd: or because it’s cheaper.

Are you like that at the table? To what? Applebee’s where the guy’s like, Hey, I’m Jimmy, I’m going to be your server today. Can you start you off with anything? Or you just like, get me my 

Craig: ice tea and Timmy. Super super friendly with, uh, service providers, because I worked in the food industry for a very long time.

And so I’m the guy who is super, super overly friendly to, to servers because I know that they deal with a lot of what their goal shit and, and Fabrizio ass Elisa where she’s going. She just says, she’s going to see family. Arguably, it’s true, but it’s not, oh, I’m on my way to my abortion. How are you? And then there’s a bunch of little stuff along the way, just on the ride.

Like somebody looks at a newspaper and it shows that a mother and her young daughter have gone missing in the area and they have some talk about the mafia, I guess this is Southern Italy. And this is where the mafia originated. And I don’t know, there’s a whole thing about like these three groups or three families or something, which apparently is real, I don’t know enough about, but one of these three entities ended up being the coaster Nossa, as we know, as the mafia.

And there’s another picture in a magazine or a newspaper or something of this woman who I guess is a head mafia figure or something. And like mark makes fun of her or. Does this for me? Oh, she’s the mayor. Okay. Yeah. 

Todd: He’s 

Craig: the mayor and it’s all just very quick and you don’t think it’s necessarily going to be important, but at the same time, me having seen these movies a million times, I’m like, why would they show us this?

If it weren’t going to be something, but you know, it’s, it’s tossed away and they, they pull over. Point so that a large Eliza can puke more cause she’s pregnant. And at that point, mark takes over the driving. Now Fabrizio had invited them all to have beers and mark was like, awesome. You just got your five stars, you know, which is cool.

And that’s a thing, you know, these drivers for these companies, they do rely on their ratings. Yeah. And, and so, you know, I’ve seen all kinds of crazy stuff online where they offer all kinds of like water and snacks and like all kinds of 

Todd: things, which they’d offer me beer. That would be great. We right. 

Craig: I know.

So, so they, they all have beers, including Eliza, Eliza, because. Mark basically forces her to, it appears that she doesn’t want to, I guess, because she’s pregnant. I don’t really know why she’s all that concerned about whether she’s going to have an abortion anyway, but whatever, or maybe she just doesn’t want to drink and friends out there and internet land don’t force people to drink.

If people pass up drinks, they have reasons respect

Todd: exactly. This public service announcement brought to you by two guys, niching also don’t drink and drive. Right. And what happens here I believe is that mark is insisting. He’s going to dry, but for ratio doesn’t want him to right. You can do, 

Craig: we’ll get to the wedding and there’ll be grandparents already.

Okay. Look, this company is, my mother is okay. She never lets anyone drive it. If something happens, she would smash my head and I’m taken over. Maybe you’re drunk. I drive better when I’m drinking, but Hey, you can take the weather. If you don’t feel safe, dog. I don’t have my driver’s license with me. Okay. No, my ass problem solve the problem.

Not solved is that clear.

Todd: And as they’re driving down in the middle of the night, the road, they’re both sitting there drinking beers when suddenly there is a dead goat in the middle of the road, which mark looks up and Fabrizio freaks out and leans over and yanks the wheel so that they avoid hitting this goat in the middle of the road.

But instead hit a tree. And at that moment I was thinking you are an idiot. Yeah. You don’t yank the car off the road because there’s a dead animal in the middle of it. I mean, yeah, you can bump on it. If you’re going fast, you could, you could damage your car, but so much better to run over that thing or partially run over it.

To swerve and cause a bigger accident, which is exactly what happens. Right. 

Craig: They hit a tree and you know, they got going full speed, but then it cuts to the morning and Elisa wakes up and hears commotion. Um, it turns out mark has a broken leg, which Ricardo being a doctor splints. Of course they have no cell reception.

But the biggest thing is somebody says, well, first they say call 1, 1 8 or whatever the equivalent is of nine 11 in Italy. And of course they have no cell reception obviously, but then Ricardo says, well go flag somebody out on the road. And Elisa looks out the window and said, There is no road. Yeah. And they go out and explore and there isn’t, they are nowhere near a road and this is just totally unexplainable.

They have no idea what’s going on, but they find this strange house. Like, I don’t know how to describe it. It’s almost like kind of like a modern Hansel and Gretel alley thing, or kind of a cross between a house and a church or something. It’s just really, that’s kind of a 

Todd: weird star shaped roof in a way that doesn’t it with a, with a very prominent window up at the top.

It’s always glowing, right? Like there’s light coming from inside. 

Craig: There are big like telephone poles with loudspeakers outside, but there’s nobody there. Uh, and Ricardo and Fabrizio go looking for the road, but they don’t find anything. They try to get in the house, but there’s nobody there. And so basically they just go back to the camper, they 

Todd: find three scarecrow type things in the woods 

Craig: though.

It’s a Strine of some sort. Obviously it 

Todd: looks like Blair witch project type stuff, or, you know, any one of these cult movies that are in the woods, sort of ancient cult type stuff where putting together things with sticks and, and twine and stuff. Yeah. 

Craig: Actually, I mean, it, it ends up being obviously significant, you know, there are these three like large straw figures somewhere.

Human shaped effigies, but then underneath them are five pigs heads on Spears and there are five of them who 

Todd: it’s interesting. Yeah. I mean, what’s interesting about this movie is that they’re calling. I like the fact that they’re actually calling out to our expectations in this movie directly. Like when they find the five pigs heads, they go back to the cabin and somebody actually says, please tell me there weren’t five.

Heads on those Pikes. And they’re like, yeah, they were five. Like they go ahead and make the connection for us. You know, the same thing when those two are walking through the woods, I think it’s for Bree geo who brings up one. 

Craig: I saw this America movie, right about these people who end up in a sort of limbo and they are not aware of it.

So they are liking a trap, you know, and they are doomed to repeat the same things. For example, they wake up and it’s always the same day or they go downstairs and it’s always the same floor, you know? 

Todd: And it’s so funny. Cause he was speaking what I was thinking. I’m trying to figure out what happened, you know, with this movie it’s obviously super mysterious.

Did they all die in the accident and are they in like purgatory limbo now? And so, you know, again, being a classic horror story. For Brizo continues to bring up these notions throughout the film makes these connections between what happens in classic horror movies. And what’s happening to them now kind of like a what’s his name and scream.

Right. So as soon as he brings it up, I’m thinking, okay, well then that’s not gonna. You know, and, and it kept the mystery alive for me a little bit. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. And this, this is totally typical. There usually is that guy who can make these connections. Eventually somebody notices the door was locked on the house originally, but at some point they see that the door is open and Elisa goes in the house and she hears things in the house.

And she ends up in this one room that has all of these lit candles and everybody joins her in there. And there are all of these pictures, like weird culty pictures of people in masks. And there are these pictures of these three frightening hooded, masked figures, and Fabrizio being from that area knows that it’s a reference to a piece of folklore from the area.

And he says that they are the three nights of. He says, uh, the first has no eyes that even, even in the dark, he will find you, the second has not ears, but he will surely hear you. The third has no mouth to speak, but if you see him, don’t say a word, the wing it horse by their side is the song of death. And he says, it’s the legend of some Italian words that I don’t know, all 

Todd: stroke Matoso and Cognos or something like that.

Craig: Good for you. 

Todd: You know, a fun fact. I think that means bone, middle bone and heel bone, 

Craig: I think. Well, and I, I, like I said, I guess that there is some truth to this legend. Now I 

Todd: supposedly I think it’s an urban legend that, you know, it’s like a historical. It’s like a historical, probably not true myth of how the, the three Italian mafia family started, which is that somewhere in the 15th century, there were these three brothers and their daughter, their sister got raped by some guy.

And so they enacted revenge and went and killed this person. But then they got in trouble for it. So either they were exiled or they escaped to an island near Sicily. And while they were there, they devoted themselves to God and put together rules for a society like a new society they wanted to create.

And each of them kind of had their own. Spin on it, I guess. And then years later, once they left there, each of them took these rules for society and started each of the Italian mafia families. The three most famous ones are the three big ones. Probably not actually there’s no, I was, I was looking this up cause I really knew we had to address this, but there’s absolutely no evidence that this is actually true.

It’s mostly folklore and mythology, but, uh, it sounds cool. 

Craig: And when I say there’s some truth to it, I just mean that like, this really is a legend. Oh, right. Not true. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But also again, similar to kind of the Wicker man, um, even one that we watched recently, uh, apostle 

Todd: yeah. Strong apostle 

Craig: vibe.

And in that movie, yeah. They, you know, they made their own society, made their own rules. I’ll all that. The 

Todd: village. 

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh, then I don’t know, he says that, um, these three brothers came from another world and they came to this village that was starving and they offered to help them, but they required a sacrifice.

Um, and so the village, I guess, very, um, Shirley Jackson’s the lottery style, like picked somebody to be the sacrifice and they cut out that person’s tongue and ears and eyes, and these brothers did rid the village of hunger, but then those people that they saved, he says they became like a flock there, flock.

And so, okay. So they see all that they’re spooked out, but there’s really not much they can do. So they plan to sleep in the camper and leave in the morning. And when they’re sitting in the camper, Fabrizio says, He like, he, he, he recaps everything that they’ve done. We crashed into a tree, a few feet from the road and we wake up in front of the house of SEM, Rahimi.

There are severed animal heads, pictures of crazy farmers. We are isolated. The phones don’t work.

Why isn’t anyone steady yet? This is the set up for classic horror. Go to sleep, man. 

Todd: And then the title card comes up. No, I’m just kidding. 

Craig: And then as tends to happen, he goes into the woods late at night, the foggy woods with, you know, the Moonlight shining through the trees to P. And he hears something and he sees these two hooded, mast figures in the woods, the people in the RV here, what sounds like a child’s scream coming from the cabin.

So the girls first go to check it out, which I thought was interesting. Like the guys are like, yeah, that’s cool. Go ahead. So much for chivalry. Keep in 

Todd: mind, mark. Can’t leave because he’s, I mean, he’s hot. He’s his leg is broken. He would be hobbling if he tried to leave the 

Craig: camper and eventually, I mean the breed CEO and Roberto or whatever is Ricardo, whatever his name is follow right behind and join them.

And as soon as that happened, I’m like, Mark’s phone. 

Todd: Yeah, me too. 

Craig: He’s disabled. They left him a load in there. He’s well, for 

Todd: Brie, geo comes in quite urgently, right? I mean, he’s like, Hey, there’s stuff in the woods. We got to get out. We got to get out. And the doctor’s kind of reluctant to leave. He’s like, no, man, no, man, we gotta go.

We gotta go. We gotta go to the house. So he kind of forces him out of there. That’s a little important, right? I don’t know Mark’s asleep or 

Craig: something. I don’t know. Yeah. He’s he sleeps from the time he’s injured, which probably is probably really pretty realistic. I think that when your body is in pain, sleep is like a natural instinct to try to, you know, ignore or he’ll be unaware of the pain.

Right. So they’re all in there. They go up into the attic and they find a kid, a young girl, like in cased in this weird kind of haystack and her tongue has been cut out and is in a jar right next to her. And then all of us. These red lights come on outside. And the sirens sirens start blaring through those loudspeakers.

And the little girl is scared and crying and all of this looks great. Light. The red light looks fantastic. It’s very spooky. But it’s also still, the cinematography is still very clear. Like it’s not dark it, you know, you see everything very clearly it looks, I was really impressed. Well, 

Todd: you know, and there’s like a siren sound and then a Lisa, for some reason, she’s kind of like backed up against the window.

And she’s a little terrified by all this juices staring on and she’s sort of illuminated for behind by this bright red window. And it starts kind of slowly zooming in on her. And I mean, I was just getting total Suspiria vibes there. Yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely a call back to, um, Argento his work in Suspiria.

It was very much that stark red, this girl standing there kind of terrified. It was, it was very other worldly, a little abstract, uh, very colorful. It was, it was really cool actually. I mean, this movie does that a lot where it just hits you with these throwbacks to classic horror film. I liked that it did a really smoothly, 

Craig: yeah.

I didn’t make that connection, but you’re absolutely right. Um, and now I have all of these images of, and it’s not just Argento either. I feel like, well, maybe it was his signature and maybe we’ve watched more than one of his movies, but I’m thinking of that movie where somebody shot somebody through a keyhole.

What was that? Oh 

Todd: yes. Oh God. Which one was that? I don’t remember which one, but yeah, I don’t remember. 

Craig: It’s very much that one had a lot of the bright colors illuminating people too. So yeah, I hadn’t thought of that, but it definitely is reminiscent of that, but they look out the window and they see these masked people.

Dragging mark into the house. His girlfriend is screaming and wants to go down and try to help, but, uh, Ricardo, uh, holds her back and won’t let her. And so they all just silently watch as these people strap mark to that table. I guess I should’ve mentioned this is the cabin that we saw. Opening scene.

They break both of his legs with mallets, misery style, 

Todd: very close up and very 

Craig: brutal. And then they drive spikes in his eyes with a turn screw that my goodness, I mean, this, an apostle had to be made around the same time, but this scene was almost exactly the same really was that scene 

Todd: from apostle. I was pretty shocked at, is it a coincidence?

I don’t know, but I 

Craig: don’t know. I, I don’t think they copied it. It’s I, I D I imagine it’s a coincidence, but they are strikingly similar. 

Todd: Yeah. And it takes its time with it though. And it goes through the eyes instead of his head. And there are these close up shots of where they crank this thing down. And these spikes are just millimeters away from this guy’s terrified eyes.

And it lingers there for a while. And the camera shows a several angles. Again, very reminiscent of full to you. Remember. When we saw that spike coming at that girl’s eye. And he does that in a number of his movies. He loves a sort of injury to I kind of stuff. It’s really shocking. Um, our gender does some of it too, where you get these closeup.

Craig: Oh, well, gosh, I, I feel really stupid cause I can’t remember any of these movies, but what was that, that movie where the killer would, um, like pry their eyes open opera? Yes. Yes. But. I don’t even think as an actor that I could do this. And those spikes were still close to his eyeballs. His eyelashes. You could see his eyelashes touching the spikes.

Yeah. Uh, I think I could do it. We’ve talked about this before. It’s been a while. I was teeth, you know, like there are just things that we just make us cringe, and this was definitely a cringe-worthy thankfully, but they kill him, 

Todd: show it right up, close out, goodness, getting broken. That was a nice bit of restraint there.

I appreciated 

Craig: that. And the feet getting broken, that was so fast. Like it was a split second, but it looked great. It really did. I have absolutely no idea what the budget was on this movie, but it had to be pretty darn high because it looks really good and the effects are good. There’s not a lot of major effects like that, but what’s, there just looks really great and they drag his body out and then the lights and the sirens go off.

Um, in the morning they get the little. Out of the straw and she clings to Eliza and or Elisa. I don’t know how her name is pronounced regardless. Like, she’s your responsibility now? Oh, okay. 

Todd: After he prized her out 

Craig: and Sophia is pretty despondent, as one would be, I would think after watching a loved one, get brutally murdered, but they take off through the woods with the little girl in tow and they find a car graveyard, which is so Hills have eyes it’s happened in other movies, but especially the remake of Hills have eyes.

I vividly remember when the one character finds the place where these cannibalistic mutants store, all of the cars of their victims. There’s some infighting going on actually for a while. I thought it drug out a little bit long, Ricardo and Sophia. Fighting for a while. And it’s not really important. The little girl weave, she can’t talk, but I guess she pulls a notebook out of her car.

Now I assume that this little girl is supposed to be the little girl from the news clipping that we saw in the beginning. I think so. Yeah. And her name is Kara and she gets a notebook journal kind of thing. She shows, um, Alyssa, some things in there and Elisa asks her, is there a way out of this forest and Kiarra writes in her notebook, it’s not a forest.

And I, I don’t know, like, it’s not like that. You know, the guy had already said for Brie, two had already said, you know, I’ve seen all these movies where, you know, time doesn’t seem to matter. And they just keep reliving the same experiences in the same days over and over again. It’s not like this is unique.

I’ve seen them too. But that, that one line, it’s not a forest. It just had my mind going everywhere. What is, 

Todd: I know then what is it then? And then, and Eliza kind of asks, well, what do you mean by that? For about a minute? And then they get distracted by something else. And then they never do never come back to it again.

And I’m like, please go interrogate this girl. You got to ask her what she meant by that. 

Craig: What, uh, they get, they end up back at the house again, like three, two is like, I swear to God, we were going south the whole time I was watching the sun and they ended up back at the house, but the campers gone, they decide.

That it’s safer. Even if the people come back, they decided to be safer to be inside than outside. And Fabrizio is like, oh, well, at least they look like he finds a beer on the ground. At least they left us this one beer. So they go inside and sundown comes and they share this beer and there’s lots of talking and the doctor tells his sad, sad, backstory, boring, and then it cuts to black and then it comes back up and the red lights and the sirens are.

Going off again, Alisa kind of slowly wakes up and I was like, why these sirens are loud? Like, why wouldn’t they immediately wake up? But as it turns out, she and Fabrizio are the only ones in the house she goes outside and there’s a huge cult of masked P like a huge Wicker. I hesitate to say Wicker, man.

Cause it doesn’t really look like the Wicker man from the movie, but it’s on a big straw. Yeah. Like a bonfire thing, but kind of shaped like a person and Sophia and Ricardo are tied to stakes. And the little girl is in the middle again in Cayston straw. And Elisa is standing there looking. At them. And all of the cultists are just staring at her.

Fabrizio grabs her, drags her back inside the cultist, do this weird clicking stuff with like super weird, have no idea what that’s all about. And then they cut off Ricardo’s ear. They cut Sophia’s eye off. They put it on like a weird face thing. They already have the tongue from the little girl. And then they host this face up to the top of that straw man.

So, and then they slit Ricardo and Sophia’s throats. And I was so sad because Sophia was so pretty. And not just that she was pretty, but she was really cool. Like, yeah, I really liked her and I didn’t, I figured she’d get it, but I didn’t want to, then it’s just Elisa in Fabry too in there. And he’s like, oh my God, what’s happening?

And she’s crying. And he’s like, do you mind if I hug you? And as soon as he said that, In my notes I have is for breach seal in.

Todd: Yup. 

Craig: And then immediately, like I said, I figured it out 10 seconds before it was revealed because Alisa’s like, why didn’t we wake up when all of this was going on? Obviously it had to be a big production for them to put all this together. And she realizes that the beer was drugged and that Fabrizio hadn’t drank any of it.

And when he hugs her, she hears something and it turns out he’s wearing an ear piece and the person in the ear pieces like bring her out or something, bring her up, 

Todd: put her under the, put her under the. The deer antlers on the wall or something like that, move her, move her over there. 

Craig: And so she, she calls him out and he tries to cover for himself.

But eventually he says, you know, he calls her some nasty names and she, he says, you ruin it all. And I have, in my notes, is he making a movie? Because he has said, he said that he is an aspiring. Filmmaker. And at this point, this is where I got very confused because I didn’t know what was real and what was not, but he says, you know, he calls out, just take her and this mask, the guy comes in and drags her out.

And then she wakes up in mid-summer.

Have you seen Midsummer yet? Oh, don’t spoil it for me. I won’t spoil it for you, but this exact festival happens, nailed down. She’s nailed to a chair. And the mayor of the town that we had seen in the picture in all red is sitting at the head of the table, opposite her at the other end with all of these rural collectivists in between.

And there’s a weird disfigured boy singing a song about. You know, the three brothers or whatever the mayor is obvious, like the leader of this cult and they all start eating. And when Elisa starts crying, they all mocker. The mayor goes to her and this woman, I mean, she looks she’s classic, great older Italian woman, you know, decked out in a complete red suit, heavy makeup and okay.

Here’s where I start to get confused. So correct me if I’m wrong. Apparently the cold. Is the mafia and this is how they have to sustain themselves by sacrificing people. I 

Todd: don’t think so. Cause you’re right. She does mention while the mafia is not what it used to be. And then she walks away from that whole table thing to awaiting police car.

So you can kind of see that the police are in on it too. No, I think what it is is Fabrizio is making these movies, these snuff films, basically, but they’re being funded by the mafia because only the mafia could like drag up the resources to pull this off and then later, you know, distribute it and make money from it.

I think that’s, what’s actually going on. And the mayor, because the mayor is connected to the mafia, then she has the ability to kind of make sure all this happens there inside, inside her city 

Craig: and figure it out. Like I thought that this that’s what it turns out. Eventually, um, she gets put in a room with a bunch of monitors that show all of what ended up being, it turns out they’re all set pieces.

The cabin is a set piece. The shrine was a set piece. Everything was a set piece and he’s making this movie, but I thought that that whole table scene, including the mayor, I thought that was the scene from the movie that he’s making. I think, yeah, 

Todd: that’s, that’s a little odd. Right. Cause when you think through it, it, that wouldn’t make sense that it would be included in his movie.

Cause then it kind of gives away what’s going on, you know, to like the real police or something, you know, that’s 

Craig: the thing like I, because I questioned, I don’t think that woman. Was really the mayor. I think that she’s an actress. I think that could be that, that showing that him having that picture for them to see and comment on, I think that was all part of the setup.

I think that that was still part of them making the movie. I could be wrong. I don’t know. But this is the part that kind of blew my mind because Fabrizio, like she sees on this set of monitors, all of these set pieces, but then the monitors all go blank and his head pops up on all of them, not individually, but like his whole, like it forms a composite of his face and he explains what he’s doing.

And I felt that this was really. Social commentary. That was a little too real and too scary. Yeah. Um, you know, he talked about how people like horror movies, but they’re not really impressed and they’re not really scared, but then they go home and they watch the news. And that is all the, all the news shows is the horrors of humanity, because that’s what the consumers want.

Right. They want to see pain and misery and murder and horror. And that’s why that’s all the news focuses on. And he says, so I’m making this movie, this is going to be the new. You know, this is where entertainment is going. And basically what he’s talking about is snuff films, where, you know, he, he really kills people in his movies.

Cause that’s what people want to see. 

Todd: Yeah. Uh, that’s crazy. It’s definitely social commentary. The movies brimming with it, by this point, I 

Craig: honest to God did not see it coming. And frankly, up until the point of that reveal, I thought the movie’s fine, but I’ve seen it before. Yeah. I was actually, you know, I was, I was thinking, oh God, Todd’s not going to like it.

Cause it’s pretty typical. Blah, blah, blah. And then this happened, I was like, wait, oh my gosh, 

Todd: it’s cool. But it’s also a little bit like martyrs in that respect. And it’s also a little bit like funny games, right? A little bit in, in, in it’s thematic material. You want to see violence. All right, we’re going to show you violence kind of thing.

And now how do you feel about it? Did that entertain you true? 

Craig: Right. Pointing back at the audience. It’s not like this is a new idea, but, um, 

Todd: but it’s a new, different execution. 

Craig: It, and it surprised me. And as he’s talking to her, she laughs in his face and says, your movie, totally sex. It’s just a carbon copy of other movies, which is 

Todd: true, which is true, 

Craig: of course, but this is him off.

And he says, well, this, this is how the story goes from now on. And she says, not my story. And he says, We’ll see. And, um, then he, he cuts out and the screens go blank. She pulls her hands off the nut or off the nails that she’s nailed to the chair by, which is gruesome, but looks great. Um, she goes out of the trailer that she’s in and ends up on what I describe as a backlot it’s not a studio backlot, but it’s clearly like the back lot of a film set with lots of trailers with all of the props and all, you know, everything’s a prop, the dead goat was a prop.

Um, they’ve even kept all of the bodies of the victims, I assume in case they might need them later for reshoots. And the only thing that she’s concerned about is finding the little girl and I loved this twist to it. The little girl was in on it. Yeah. In fact, I’m not even sure if she was really a little girl that she and the Gritti or talking and kind of arguing with one another and one of the trailers.

And at one point he calls her a dwarf. Now she doesn’t look like somebody with actual dwarfism, but I wondered if she was actually a young adult who just looked very young and she’s totally in on it. She’s been playing it the whole time, 

Todd: callback to Wicker man there too. And she also does need. Isn’t she his sister.

Yes. 

Craig: And like, I think there another is the producer 

Todd: or producer slash mafia person. Yeah. 

Craig: I, I, it’s a little bit ambiguous unless it’s not, and it just went over my head. I don’t know. Um, but eventually Kiata puts her costume back on because it was just a costume all along and opens the trailer door and Elisa is standing outside.

She has costumed herself as one of the townspeople and put on one of their masks and she’s standing there with a shotgun and Kiata is like, oh, shit or something. And Alisa blows her away. And then Fabrizio comes running out and she sh she shoots him in the knee and he starts. Crawling away. And she is filming this, she set up a camera and he, uh, pleads with her, not he’s like, I, I can make this good for you.

You know, all kinds of things. And eventually she flips him over on his back and points the shotgun right at his head. And she says, don’t worry. It’s only a movie. She blows his head off. And then she walks back to the camera and says, there, you have your ending. And then again, I’m still a little confused.

She walks into the forest, the sirens go off again. The little deformed boy who is singing before is not deformed. It was just makeup apparently. And he’s there in swim trunks and water wings. And they look at each other for a while and he turns off and runs and she starts chasing him and he leads her through a fence, which has a sign that’s like no trespassing, military establishment, but I couldn’t tell if they were going into the military establishment or out from it, out from it, I think.

Okay. I think so, too. Yep. And then she ends up on a crowded public beach. Yes. Apparently just filled with tourists who are, because she looks terrible. She’s bloody and they’re all filming her with their cell phones and she just walks into the sea. And then that’s basically the end, except for there is a credit scene.

Did you stick around for the garden scene? 

Todd: Sure. Did boy. That was something. 

Craig: Metta because the credit scene is this guy watching, what was it? Blood flicks or something like that, not Netflix, but like blood flicks, FLI ex configured. Exactly the same as Netflix. Like it’s obviously Netflix and he’s just clicking through horror movies and he clicks on a classic horror story and he S uh, scans through and watches a little bit of the early part of the movie.

And then he scans through and watches just the scene where Elisa shoots for greets you. And then he closes it out and clicks the thumb down and then goes to have dinner with his family. Like, yes, like he he’s clearly us, you know, we’re, we’re watching this. And the suggestion is this is what really happened.

And now we’re just watching it on Netflix. Yeah. Uh, I just, ultimately, I thought it was really clever now that it takes a while. You have to get through that first hour, which is, which is apparently the very, you know, what to expect, you know, what it is. But when the twist comes, I did not see it coming. And I thought that it was very clever.

And in total I ended up thinking it was pretty cool. 

Todd: Me too. So here’s my theory on the movie. I think that this woman was really the mayor, but also in heavily involved with the model. I don’t think we ever know the name of the town, do we are fictional anyway. And so they’ve set up this millet, this fake military installation, just to keep people out the sirens and lights come on to hide the screams and stuff from everybody else in the town, because it would be obvious otherwise that they would hear what’s going on when the murders are happening.

But because it’s a military installation, it just sounds like military exercises or something like that. Yeah. That masks that. And then of course, when she, when she pops out of there and ends up right there on the beach, this is total social commentary where, um, of course it’s the horrifying thing. It’s like, it’s like the village in a way, isn’t it.

Right. But then she pops out and instead of anybody rushing to help her or whatever, like she’s obviously bloodied and distress and holding herself and walking around. Everybody just takes out their camera and starts filming. Like again, this spills into real life that we’ve been so desensitized to violence, perhaps through media movies, whatever, or through the cameras on our phones, that our first instinct and we’ve seen this, right.

It’s just to film what’s going on around us, even as bad as it is. Gosh, there was a, there was a news article the other day about somebody who was getting raped or something like in the middle of the street or whatever. And I don’t remember if it was New York or where it was, and there were more people filming it than helping.

And so this is, yeah, it’s pretty sad commentary. She walks into the water and I want to think everything’s going to be okay. A part of me thought, oh, did she just like drown herself in sadness? Or was this a kind of baptism? Is she deciding she’s going to keep her baby because she kind of starts holding her stomach as she goes out.

We don’t really know. I want to think that she’s fine. And then of course, like you just said to wrap up the meadow of the whole thing, it’s like, even this movie that we’ve just seen, ah, it was okay. Give it a thumbs down, whatever, seen it before. All this brutal stuff happened and we don’t even give it a mind.

Yeah. I mean, it was a great movie. Like I just said, you make me watch these things, that a point an uncomfortable mirror up in front of me and then make me feel sick for the rest of the day. You’re welcome. Yeah. Thanks. I want it next week. Let’s just do another goofy eighties slasher, right. But no, I really did enjoy it.

I really enjoyed it. Just like you. I thought it was super clever. I love the meta part of it. I thought it hit all the right notes. It was, the pacing was great. The filmmaking was great. I loved the callbacks to classic movies. I think if you’re a horror fan, you’re going to enjoy this even more than just your more casual viewer.

Cause you’re gonna get a lot of this stuff in. You’ll probably get it more and appreciate it more if you are simply because you’ll get the point they’re trying to make. I remember watching a cabin in the woods with my dad and he hated that movie. And I’m like, why? Oh my God, this is one of the most clever things I’ve ever seen.

And I realized it’s because he didn’t know the tropes. He’d never really seen many of these horror movies and didn’t understand what they were poking fun at. And so I think that if you’re a horror fan, you’re going to get this immediately. Maybe more so than somebody, some casual viewer. Oh, appreciate it all the way.

Craig: I totally agree. Uh, another example, my mom, who’s not a fan of horror films. Uh, wanted to indulge my dad on Halloween. And so they watched Halloween kills together and she absolutely. Hated it. And I understand why, because that whole movie, the substance of that whole movie is throwbacks to all of the rest of this series.

And she’s not familiar with the rest of the series. So whereas my dad and I reveled in. I didn’t think it was an amazing movie, but I reveled in those things, you know, she had no context for it. And so the same thing here, I don’t think, uh, yeah, if, if you’re not a fan of horror, I don’t think you’re going to like this, but if you are, I think you’ll really like it.

Todd: And it’s going to push your buttons. Just like, again, like martyrs did for me, like funny games did for me, you know, as horror fans, there is this sort of inner tension where you’re thinking, God, why do I find. So entertaining when it should be so horrifying. And, you know, it’s a, it’s a hard thing that we have to explain to people and also to ourselves from time to time.

And then to have, like I said, does mirrors thrown up in front of you and God, another movie that’s sort of pointing that out and making me feel guilty. Well, fair point fair point, indeed. 

Craig: All right. Well, if you haven’t seen this movie, I hope you didn’t listen to the podcast because it’ll be spoiled for you.

And the most fun for me was the surprised I was. It’s so rare in these types of movies that I don’t see the twist coming, and I really didn’t. Regardless. If you do watch this movie or have watched this movie and you have anything to say, or you have any insights that we missed because we do miss things a lot.

We’re not all that smart really, 

Todd: really, 

Craig: uh, feel free to let us know on Facebook or you can direct messages or comments on our web page or whatever. And, uh, if you enjoyed it, please share it with, uh, friends or your friends. You can find us everywhere. You can find podcasts anyway, as always thank you very much for listening.

And until next time I’m Craig, and I’m Todd, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Back when TV movies were still cheap affairs, the Home Box Office Network (HBO) started striking out into original films. This was one of the earliest: A 1991 production, heavily promoted at the time, mixing classic gumshoe detective noir with magic, monsters, and a huge pile of stars.

The result is this oddly forgotten movie that retains its charms – magical or otherwise – decades later, requested by loyal listener, Nathan. Whether you’re a fan of the detective, fantasy, or horror genre, there’s something in here for you. Check it out!

Cast a Deadly Spell (1991)

Episode 275, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today, we dive into another request. Uh, this is a request by Nathan. And as soon as Nathan sent us this request for Facebook, I was like, my goodness. This is a blast from the past. He asked us to do 1991’s Cast A Deadly Spell, which is an HBO original movie that I have childhood memories of not this movie, but of the promise of this movie.

Went back during the cable days, my parents generally speaking were too cheap to get us the premium channels. We had cable, but we didn’t have Showtime. We didn’t have HBO Cinemax, anything like that. But what we did have every now and then was the free preview weeks. 

Craig: I remember those. Yeah. Oh my gosh. They were so exciting.

Cause they would play like all these great movies and you could tape them on VHS and have them forever, 

Todd: um, forever. Exactly. And it would be like your first exposure to these premium channels. And so like these channels would be free for the week or for the weekend. And they would just be like an event for us.

Like the TV would just be tuned to HBO or Showtime or whatever that whole week. So we could just Gorge ourselves on whatever it was they were showing. And then in turn, those networks are promoting the hell out of everything they had because of course the goal is to get you to subscribe and pay the extra to, uh, to get those channels.

Right. I’m pretty sure that during one of the HBO free preview weeks, this movie in 1991, I would have been in middle school. They were promoting the heck out of it and it looked so intriguing to me. It’s like a 1940s gumshoe, kind of Sam spade, Philip Marlowe, detective era type story, very new nuanced.

But with magic. Like a world where magic exists and happens and is quite normal, normalized, and they’re fantastic creatures and things like that. And as soon as he requested this, I was like, oh my gosh. I’ve always wanted to see that since I was a kid, I never did meant I’d never did watch it back then. I don’t know if it was because it was on too late or it was a little deemed, a little too adult for me and my parents didn’t let me, or I just never got around to her during that week, but I never did get to see it.

And so how great of an opportunity to go back and see this movie that I don’t know, like I’m surprised anybody else remembers because it’s one of those things that you never hear about, even though it has like a thousand famous people in it. And, and this movie, this subject matter, I mean, my goodness, it could have been.

In this era and probably been very successful because these are the kinds of things we’re seeing now more often, I think, than we saw back then, these crazy mashups with heavy on fantasy horror and quite a bit of humor as well. So super excited that Nathan or requested us to do this. And, um, yeah, I think when he, when he requested it, he said, uh, I don’t know if it’s really a horror movie or not.

Uh, it’s a little bit of everything, you know, and horror is definitely part of it. So it’s definitely in our wheelhouse. I think Craig had you seen this movie or even heard of it? Uh, 

Craig: I don’t know, but it’s funny that your description of how you remember it, because I it’s just vaguely familiar to me. And I think that that is why I think I saw it advertised, um, whether it be for the free week or whatever, I just feel like I must’ve seen the trailer or something because it did look vaguely familiar.

I do know for sure that I had. Seen it before, but it does have a lot of people in it that are highly recognizable. Uh, the main character is played by Fred ward who has been in a bazillion things. I always remember him from, um, Tremors. He was great in Tremors and the Lily Tomlin, Bette Midler classic, Big Business.

He was in that.

Todd: Uh, he’s a real man’s man. I’ve always been here is 

Craig: oh yeah. Yeah. And he’s great in this role, like it’s perfect casting, so good. He plays this old school detective. Yeah. I mean, he’s, he’s perfect for it. And then Julianne Moore is kind of the Vixen of the movie, which this has to be one of her first roles.

Like she’s very young. The, you might not care. You might not have anticipated that. She would go on to be a highly regarded film actress.

Todd: After this film, you mean,

Craig: uh, Clancy brown, uh, is, is one of the villains in the movie and he’s been in. Tons of things, lots of horror movies, but, um, he was excellent as like the head evil guard and Shawshank redemption. And he was the evil stepdad and pet cemetery too. Like you’ve seen him everywhere. He still works. 

Todd: Oh yeah. And you know what, when I was, I was kind of scrolling through his IMDP credits.

I had no idea he’s done more voice work than anything else. Really. 

Craig: He is like 

Todd: all over television cartoons for doing voice were pretty much like Phineas and Ferb and all like amazing Spider-Man and the Superman cartoons. Like it seems like, I don’t think there was a single superhero cartoon that he hasn’t done three or four voices for H well, he doesn’t have a great voice.

Great. He does voice. Yeah. Yeah. And then the ability to change it around a lot too, he had a, he had a good presence in this movie. He was really sinister and cool. 

Craig: Also, I mean, I have no idea how old these people actually are, but compared to the other things that I know him from very young, uh, seeming in this movie, even Warner 

Todd: is in this David Warner.

I mean, 

Craig: fantastic. And I feel like we’ve done movies that he’s been in before wax work. Yes. 

Todd: Yes. Um, whole body, if David Warner ever passes. And of course he will someday we’ll have a lot to choose from. I think, you know, he was even in scream two. Did you know that? I don’t remember 

Craig: him in that interesting 

Todd: Titanic, my goodness video games too, that guy he’s everywhere.

And Harry Potter, right? He was. Wasn’t he in the Harry Potter movies? I don’t know. I thought he was maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. You amazing. One of the few British actors who wasn’t in a Harry Potter movie coming up. Yeah. These names here. Right. And then, um, the movie is, uh, directed by a man named Martin Campbell.

And this was not his first directing gig. He did a bit of, quite a bit of TV before this different episodes of things he went on after this just a couple years later to direct golden eye, the mask of Zorro vertical limit, the legend of Xero and the James Bond reboot in 2006 casino. Okay, so he’s no slouch.

Nope. And then the writer, Joseph Dougherty, who I get, what I read in here was that the script had, had been passed around for 10 years. He hasn’t done too much since that actually, uh, I mean, he’s done things, but nothing really recognizable, just some TV episodes and some things here and there. And I’m quite surprised.

Honestly, because I don’t know, like, I’m just going to say it. I found this movie charming and just fun it’s light. And it was kind of delicious in the way that it balanced. I thought like the horror with the fantasy, with a lot of comedy and the movie didn’t take itself too seriously, which I really enjoyed because a movie like this that starts to take itself too seriously could have been silly.

And this movie. But I think it’s intentionally silly. It’s silly in a really good way. I mean, the main character’s name is H Philip Lovecraft, the perfect blend between Phillip Marlow and HP Lovecraft. And of course the whole plot is really inspired by Lovecraft and sort of that world. And we even get to see the Cthulu, the old ones at the very end.

This is what kind of the plot is all centered around. But again, in a world where magic in a 1940s, the USA where magic is commonplace and people can use it if they’re willing to and interested in it. And our detective being the hard-boiled hard nose, typical against the grain guy that these Philip Marlowe-type characters are.

Doesn’t have any interest in that. And we hear that from the very beginning. So 

Craig: I got to tell you I’ve been, um, a little reluctant about. This about talking to you today because you hate it. No, I’m in a really, I’m in a really weird, I feel, I, I don’t think that this has ever happened before. Okay. I didn’t like it.

And really at all, I’m not really sure why, like, cause it’s not poorly made. Like, I think that it’s it’s well-made I just didn’t like it. Like I thought it was boring. And stupid

and I, well, and like, there were a couple of things about it that I found problematic and they’re small things. They’re not anything that I’m going to get like caught up on or like, rant about, but it just didn’t work for me at all. And I, and I knew like watching it, I knew I’m like, Todd’s going to like this and I’m going to have to try to explain why I don’t.

And I don’t really even under like, but seriously I was bored. 

Todd: Bored. Your kid is Nope. Not let me, let me 

Craig: find it. Okay, hold on one, one last thing, one last thing, like you said, it’s all these things. It’s fantasy it’s horde. I don’t know that I would necessarily call it horror, but if you’re going to call something like, oh gosh, I don’t know.

There are definitely horror elements. Like there are monsters and there’s magic. And like you said, there’s the whole HP love craft influence, which by the way, I don’t really know how you get into HP. Kraft mythos and have it be boring. Like I don’t even, it is, but when I could tell that it was supposed to be a comedy, but I didn’t find it funny at all.

Like the parts that I could tell were supposed to be funny had absolutely no effect on me. Like, well, that’s not funny. 

Todd: I wouldn’t know. I would see now I wouldn’t go so far to say, as it was supposed to be a comedy. I mean, I would say that it, it was highly comedic, but I wouldn’t say it was supposed to be a comedy in that I feel like it was such a direct.

Homage to Raymond Chandler that it can’t help, but be silly because that stuff is pretty silly, especially when you take it off of the page and put it on the screen. I mean, people talking in these wise cracks and quippy and the attitude and the kind of over complicated plot and just the sheer sort of wideness of it, all that it’s going to be silly.

And so I just feel like the director acknowledged that. And so he slipped some jokes in, I don’t feel like. The comedy through and through. I just thought it was sort of a had comedic elements that were intentional. Yeah. I mean, I’m going to put you at ease. I, it’s not, like I thought it was the best thing I’ve ever seen for sure.

Or I have to ask you, I mean, you being the English teacher, have you read much Raymond Chandler, have you read anywhere? No. 

Craig: And I, and I think that that might be a big part of it. I haven’t read this type of stuff. I’m aware of this John rhe cinematically, but I don’t know that I’ve ever watched any of it.

I was in a play once. I think it was called LA. The Butler did it, or I think the Butler did it or something like where were you in that place? 

Todd: Yeah, I think we were in it together.

You played the Lamar low didn’t you, you played a character that was supposed to be based off a film. Marla was like Phillip spade or Sam Marlow or something. 

Craig: I’ve completely blocked it out because it was so dumb. Like it was like, it was fun to do, and it was fun working. Like we worked with great people, uh, our, our, our dear, dear friend, Ron directed it.

And, um, it was, it was a lot of 

Todd: fun too. Wasn’t it? It was,

Craig: it was, it was fun to work with those people, but the play was so stupid that I’ve completely blocked it out. So maybe I don’t, that, that may have a. Thing to do with it just that I’m not a fan of the genre. And I imagine that people, probably people more our dad’s age, or maybe even our granddad’s age, you know, when this was really popular, they probably have got a big kick out of this.

It just didn’t resonate with me. I don’t know. It’s hard. It’s hard to appreciate a throwback when you’re not really familiar with what they are throwing back to. You know what I mean? 

Todd: No, that’s totally fair. And that may explain why. I was so taken by it because I could not believe how, I mean, I was going back and I was looking at the credits and I was looking in Wikipedia because I was positive that this was just direct directly based off of one of his novels.

I just felt like I had. The whole plot before. And I think that’s because many of these plots are basically the same and they’re so fun. Craig you’d should you should. And everybody who’s listening you, if you’re, you should just read one Raymond Chandler novel. It is an experience unto itself. It really is.

The writing is so it’s like too clever for its own. Good. You know what I mean? It’s so delicious, really clever. And the things that people say to each other and the way they talk to each other are very economical and witty. Nobody ever in the history of mankind talks to each other like this. So he’s created his own little world and it’s also this world filled with vice in one novel will, you know, this detective who has all these problems, who is an alcoholic who.

Has somehow in his heart just is trying to do the right thing, but everything’s kind of against it. And he really doesn’t give a shit anyway, cause he’s kind of on his last buck going into the world of vice gangsters and prostitution and pornographers and all of that stuff. Just matter of factly thrown at you, even air, I guess, where I wouldn’t have expected that, but maybe that’s just my naivete.

You know, we, we tend to think two things are different today, but really they’re not that much different. And so, you know, this movie was just packed every bit. It was like, it was like the novel place to screen. And then with the added twist of all of these, the magical kind of elements to it, which, you know, you could have stripped that out and you would have still had the same plot.

You can take the MacGuffin, which is the Necronomicon. Uh, that they’re, that he’s ostensibly trying to track down that everybody’s looking for and replace it with anything else that’s valuable and you could take all the magic away and you’d basically end up with the same plot. Yeah, that’s true. So I thought that that was just a nice little twist to it and that’s what kept it kind of fun and novel and interesting to me, a, I liked the source material B I recognized it was so faithful to source material that was just delicious to see on screen, uh, and then see the added layer of the magic and things, and which made it so goofy that I was really glad to see that they weren’t trying to play it so straight.

And then that is what works. In that regard. So 

Craig: I get it. That’s why I feel bad. Like, I feel like it should’ve worked for me. I feel like I should have liked it too. And I just didn’t know. I feel guilty cause I mean, like I get it, I get the whole detective scene and I feel like I’ve seen other movies, probably spoofy or movies that are kind of like this, that I’ve enjoyed.

And I liked the magic element. I thought that they were trying a little too hard sometimes because not only does everybody use magic, but everybody uses it all the time. And I feel like they kind of felt the need to continuously remind us of that. Like there are these like, yes, like all these panning shots of like crowds and you’ll see like waiters pouring drinks with the pitcher floating.

There’s a lot of floating things going on. I’m like, yeah, Yeah, whoever they should. I hope that they credited like the wire holder in the credits because there was a lot of floating objects stuff going on. And there was other little stuff like silly, really insignificant, like you said, they could have cut it completely out.

And the plot would have been the same, but like there’s a scene with gremlins that I thought was kind of hilarious. 

Todd: That was pretty goofy. Yeah. 

Craig: It was goofy. But obviously this came out after the, you know, it did Richard Donner do gremlins who Joe, Dante. Yeah. This came out after that. And obviously the gremlins in this movie take a tiny bit of inspiration from the gremlins in that movie.

Um, but it was kind of cute and silly and funny. And I liked that and there were other magical things that I thought were kind of cute and stuff, but there was also a lot of focus on. A lot of talk about or suggestions about HP Lovecraft. And I’m a big, this is weird too. Especially coming from an English teacher.

I’m a really big fan of the HP Lovecraft universe. I find him really difficult to read. Have you read any of his stuff? 

Todd: I have and, honestly, yeah, it’s hard. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s not like the mythos is so entertaining and then you read this stuff and it’s so dense and like, I mean, I’ve read it. I want to be aware and I enjoy the stories, but sometimes they’re kind of hard to get through, but yeah, I was hoping for more of that.

And frankly, at the end, when it all culminates like this stuff, either, I like the idea of the Necronomicon and that of course has, uh, infected pop culture. You know, you hear about the Necronomicon all over the place in horror and elsewhere. Um, I liked that idea and you know, the idea of the old ones, um, or the outsiders or whatever, with and, and others, I thought that was cool.

And I was looking forward to it coming to fruition at the end. And then I was just kind of like down and maybe that is a budgetary restraint, I don’t know, but like the big ancient monster that shows up at the end, I refer to him. In my notes as the butthole monster. Cause he just looked like a big,

Todd: I think that’s actually how HP Lovecraft referred to him.

Gooey butthole rose from the depths of

Craig: butthole. Yep. Yep. 

Todd: Um, yeah, I will admit like the other thing about it is, is as, as ambitious as the movie is it does feel kind of low budget and small, you know, I mean, in, in a production quality standpoint, I think, and I’m not sure why, because like you said, it’s competently filmed, the sets are pretty and gorgeous.

There’s a very dramatic lighting and things. But I guess maybe it’s just like, we never, we never really get these like scenes with a lot of people in them. You know, he’s overarching crowd scenes are big chases down the street with whole lots of people. Really. I don’t remember 

Craig: one big set piece, which is the Dunwich room.

Um, which again is. Throwback to the Dunwich horror, HP Lovecraft, but, and it’s like the swanky forties club and I, and that was cool. Like I enjoyed that environment and like, um, Julianne Moore is the lounge singer there and, um, she’s clearly lip sinking and I looked this up. That is not her voice. Um, Julianne Moore can sing or not, but it’s not her voice.

And she’s clearly lips thinking and. Like it’s super exaggerated. Like, did you notice that it looks like she’s trying to sing for a deaf audience? Like my

Todd: well, and there’s a good five minutes of just her face on the screen. She’s gorgeous. 

Craig: She’s young and beautiful. And I really honest to God. I’m a big Julianne Moore fan. I think that she’s a fine, fine actress and she’s a beautiful woman. And, uh, but this is not a showcase of her talent. She looks great. But she’s still a little wet behind the ears in this movie, which is fine.

She’s young, she’s getting started. She goes on to do amazing things and she has a very well-established career. So I’m not putting her down for it, you know, early in her career having a less than stellar performance, but it is less than stellar, 

Todd: less than still. Well, I mean, to. This is an HBO original movie at a time when, I mean, now you say an HBO original movie and we’ll be like, all right, yeah, show me what you got.

You know what I mean? This is a network, you know, game of Thrones, you know, they spend millions and millions of dollars on a single episode, but back then it was different. Like, it was a very novel kind of thing for these cable networks to start dabbling in producing their own content. And usually is fairly low budget, usually kind of, you know, lower budget actors yet.

Anyway, they’re cutting corners somewhere. This is coming out of that pedigree and it feels if you were to compare it to all of that, it actually is. It was one of the higher production value ones, especially. I mean, it’s produced by Gale Anne Hurd. So maybe that has a lot to do with it, but it still somehow retains that field that 

Craig: there.

Yeah, exactly. And that’s, if you look it up anywhere, you look it up on an MTV, you look it up on IMDV or you look it up on Wikipedia and it’s listed as a TV movie. And technically it is, but these cable networks, and I don’t even know, I mean now with, um, streaming services, streaming services are producing their own content and it’s depending on the film and depending on the service, you know, of a varying quality, but you get some really quality and higher budget, sometimes stuff.

This just feels, it feels like a TV movie with a better budget, a TV movie with better cloud, because they were able to get bigger names attached to it. But it still kind of has that TV movie feel a little it’s better. It’s better than what you would have seen on network television as a movie of the week.

It’s better than that, but there’s still a little bit of. Feel. Oh 

Todd: yeah, I totally understand. 

Craig: Well, and that was the other thing too. Like how is this rated R I don’t get it. Like, yes. I can’t imagine that today. This would be rated anything higher than PG 13. I totally agree. I have no idea. It does. I mean, I don’t recall there being much, if any swearing, 

Todd: no, no nudity and no sex, which is, yeah.

I mean, there 

Craig: there’s implied sex. Yeah. I mean, it’s HBO. I mean, you know, this is the, at the same time that this came out, they were playing dream on, which was like a huge sex comedy. You would think they would have pushed. And, and there is, you know, uh, Fred ward and, um, Julianne Moore spend a night together, but there’s, there’s nothing like you see about the smooth.

In the shadows. Yeah. Yeah. And then in the morning, Julian Morrison her nice little nighty with her hair is still perfectly quaffed. And like he gets out of bed, he sleeps on a, hide, a bed in his office. Um, he gets out of bed and he’s wearing like these huge 1940s boxers and like a wife beater, like there’s, there’s absolutely nothing.

And the effects, like even the monster effects and the kill effects are they’re, you know, they’re serviceable, they’re fine. But they’re not super gory. I have no idea how this got an R it almost seems like it’s, it feels like a PGCert it feels like an intentional, 

Todd: right. It feels like they’re trying really hard not to throw anything too, too bad in there that kids couldn’t see, or, yeah, I agree with you there.

I totally agree. I don’t know. There are a couple of gory scenes. There’s a scene where a guy gets death by like a thousand paper cuts. It’s pretty great. Kind of, 

Craig: but I mean, it doesn’t, you know, when he’s, yeah, it’s all magic. So this guy’s in a bathroom and he’s getting threatened by this goon or whatever.

And the goon, like, I don’t know, snaps his fingers or something, and all these shreds of paper, like cyclone around this guy and you get the impression of what’s going on because like the paper and the pieces of paper start to Redden and stuff. And then eventually he falls down on the ground and you can see that his face is all cut up.

And I suppose it’s gory, but it’s not like it even looks real or anything. You know, it looks like a dummy or it looks like pretty good makeup. It doesn’t, I guess, I mean, I guess that might trouble an eight year old 

Todd: at that time. Anyway. I mean, you know, we’re a little more loose on the, on the ratings, I think nowadays, but I mean then there’s the, there’s that one scene in the.

Where there’s like a demon monster conjured up and it’s a scary demon monster. I don’t know if that counts for anything. It’s a, it’s a soup monster. Oh, come on. It was right out of 

Craig: Elvira. Was the casserole monster jumps out of a pot and tax some guy. And yeah, I guess the aftermath of him, like everybody, like they defeat the casserole monster by like knocking it into the kitchen freezer or whatever.

Like it’s not much of a battle. And then the detective and this kitchen worker are just like standing there, surveying the mess and the guy pops up behind them and he looks. Kind of gross. I would say you’re right. That I’d kind of forgotten. That’s probably the grossest one, but even still, certainly not R rated material in 2021.

No 

Todd: way. Not 21 for sure. Yeah, no take, take your eight year old to see this. It’ll be totally. I 

Craig: would, I would show this to kids. I almost feel like kids would like this better. 

Todd: But the kids wouldn’t be able to follow it. There’s no way they’d be able to find barely able to follow it. That’s kind of the Raymond Chandler thing too.

It is hard to follow these plots because it involves remembering people’s names and making inferences when the characters are saying stuff and it’s like, Jimmy pulled one over on Charlie. When John did this to them such and such, then you double crossed him because blah, blah, blah. And you’re like, what?

Oh God, go back to the beginning. Who was that again? But I mean, the basic plot is and 

Craig: okay, good. I was going to say, but see, that’s the thing too. Like we, we should at least mention what the plot is, but I feel like you can do it in 10 seconds 

Todd: beat for beat. Well, I wouldn’t say there’s not much to it. 

Craig: Well, this, this heart knows detective gets hired by a rich guy to track down the Necronomicon that’s been stolen from him.

And as it turns out, this like mobster type thug is trying to get his hands on the Necronomicon so that he can summon the ancient demon. Uh, to take over the world. And as it turns out, the rich guy and the mobster are in on it together. And it all culminates at the end when they get their hands on the book and they draw up the demon.

But because of some silly flub in their plan at all, it goes awry period. That’s it? That’s the whole plot. 

Todd: No, but you can summarize every movie quickly like that, but I mean, a lot of stuff goes down in between, I mean, to get us to, from beat to beat in that point. Right. 

Craig: Okay. Let’s see 

what 

Todd: you got shoe.

Let’s see. There’s a woman who, well, woman who obviously from, from the moment you see her is actually a man dressed as a woman. I don’t know if that was supposed to be a big reveal at some point or not, but, uh, 

Craig: no. And that’s one of the things that bothers me. Like I, I understand that this was made. In 1991 and I get that it was set in the 1940s, but in, in 2021, even in 1999, like this is all putting a man in a dress, just, I mean, it’s it’s and, and, and making that a joke and a key part of this plot, like, especially since, like you said, it’s entirely evident, not that there’s anything wrong with that, whatever, but it just seems like a cheap bit.

And eventually the, the, the main guy who presumably were supposed to like, um, HP Lovecraft interviews, Person and before even verifying, I mean, it’s obvious before even verifying, this is a man in a dress and a wig, like punches him and knocks him out and then calls him a fag and like, come on. You’re better than this, like this, this movie should be better than this.

It’s just cheap. And I ha I don’t know. 

Todd: I mean, it’s, but this is, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head 1940s, and also this is typical Raymond Chandler stuff. I mean, I’m sorry, but back in the 1940s, you know, homosexuality, Ooh. You know, that’s another one of those things like, oh my God, like they’re gay lovers and she’s secretly, I’m a man.

And that kind of thing, this just fits right in with that wheelhouse. I mean, there would be something like this and half of his novels, you know, so I didn’t think it was cheap. I just thought it was being very true to the source material and try to squeeze all that in. And I don’t think it was really treated so much as a joke.

Actually. I kind of. That he seemed not too surprised. I mean, I felt like it was actually more like, come on. Like there’s no way that any of us watching this movie right here playing out in front of us and seeing this man and women’s man in women’s clothing are going to be tricked. 

Craig: Yeah, you’re right.

You’re not lying. Honestly. This movie may have been a little bit ahead of its time because this was a trans woman. She lived her life as a woman. She only dressed as a man like dressing as a man was a discussion. For her to get a hold of the Necronomicon she’s she ends up being the one who stole the book on behalf of her boyfriend and her boyfriend was stealing it on behalf of this mobster club owner or whatever, but she was in a relationship with this guy that worked for, uh, Clancy brown, the mobster guy, but her partner convinced her to dress as a man to get a job in the rich guy.

Place as the chauffer to get, you know, inside and get what they needed. So you don’t, you, you didn’t see a lot of trans representation in 1991. Um, and I feel like we’re talking about a, a transgender person in this movie. Um, so I guess 

Todd: there’s that. And wasn’t he trying to hit on the 16 year old Virgin daughter of the guy who, well, that’s 

Craig: what he says.

That’s what a Dame David Warner’s character Amos hack Shaw says may not be true. It may not be true. He brings in the detective, um, Lovecraft. There was a chauffeur. His name is Larry Willis. I fired him. Why I have a young daughter. Mr. Love craft is all I have now. I loved her mother very much. She wasn’t a strong woman.

So we moved here to California for the climate. We thought it would help. It did not. Olivia is a mother died bringing her into this Saudi world and I’ve dedicated myself to protecting her from its more unfortunate realities. She’s only 16 years of age. Mr. Love craft, which makes us quite vulnerable. So she’s an experienced, I prefer the word pure, the purity that charms all things and blinds them to the trap and the bow didn’t like the way Willis was looking at her, I felt removing him from the property would be enough, but I underestimated the unmanned.

He took something with him when. So, obviously it’s not true. You know, this is a trans woman, who’s in a relationship with a man. Um, but that’s what he says. And he says, you know, the guy stole something, he stole my book or something and he took off and I need you to find him. That is the job that Fred Ward’s character is, is doing.

He’s trying to find this guy. And there’s a lot of investigation to find this guy. Of course, it’s, uh, impeded because this guy 

Todd: is a woman.

Exactly. We’re not even sure. I mean, I don’t know. I didn’t even pick up that. That was the person early on. Yeah. 

Craig: I spoiled, I spoiled it for myself because I was looking at the cast list and obviously the same actor plays both roles because it’s the same 

Todd: person. Yeah. I didn’t quite catch that. So it was, it was a bit of a shock.

Not that this person, you know, was, was transgendered, but that this person, you know, was the original person who stole the book. So that was a, that was a bit of a reveal for me. And like this whole setup in the beginning where he goes, the rich guy hires him to find something. And then he wanders on downstairs and finds the rich guy’s daughter.

Who’s like coming on to the detective and teasing him and toying with him. This is straight, straight out of, um, is it the long sleep or the big sleep? I think it’s called the big sleep, a Raymond Chandler novel. And you know, that’s kind of. What he does is he sets up all this, like they’re all these characters and they come in and they’re like all interested in each other, but they’re all sort of coy with each other.

You know, she comes on to him and she’s like, oh, did my father hire you to do this? And he’s like, well, that’s, you know, maybe what’s happening. And she’s like, oh, you don’t know the ride you’re in for whatever. And he’s like, well, why don’t you tell me what you know, she’s like, no, I think you’re the kind of guy who likes to find the stuff out for yourself.

So I’m not gonna say anything, but, uh, then there’s all the suggests and you want to sleep with me or whatever the twist in this movie is that she’s like actually a Virgin and he knows it because only virgins can hunt unicorns. And he’s been seeing her running around hunting unicorns. And I thought, oh my gosh, that’s so cute.

It’s such a funny little twist while still remaining true to the source material and maintaining this mystery. I still don’t know what this woman knows. You know, I thought it was kind of cool. I don’t know 

Craig: that’s the, that was, I said there were a couple of problematic parts. The, the presentation. Where the representation of the trans character bothered me a little bit.

And again, not so much that I’m going to get caught up over it because I understand it was a different time, but this bothered me too, because you keep referring to her as this woman, she supposed to be 16. Now, obviously the actress that plays or is not 16, for sure, I would guess in her early twenties, maybe, but not 16, but the fact that she supposed to be 16 and she’s kind of, kind of presented as a very sexual being from the very beginning.

And then the, her virginity is pivotal to the plot. It just kind of just kind of gave me the heebie-jeebies like gross. Like he, Fred Ward’s character. Lovecraft though he plays it very hard nose and like, you know, stone faced. There’s still banter between the two of them. That is. Flirtatious, you know, like I didn’t get the impression that he was out to bang her, but he, and maybe he was just playing along with her because she was very flirtatious and kind of sexual and her demeanor.

But Fred ward in this movie is at least in his thirties and yuck. And then I, like I said, the plot hinges on her virginity and the end. The twist. It’s not even really a twist because you see it coming a bizillion miles away. It’s just kind of like that morose, 

Todd: see, this is why maybe, you know what I think it is.

All right. So, so first of all, this is Raymond Chandler type material through and through. I mean, it just goes into this territory. It is just, that is the world. And I think maybe, you know, a lot of those movies were made in the movies based on his material were made in the forties and fifties, you know, where things had to be watered down in a movie form, you know?

And so I feel like the kind of detective gumshoe type stories that we’ve seen based on his work is a very, what has been historically kind of a watered down sort of. Simplified and slightly more chased version at best. Maybe they’re illusions that, you know, are going over most people’s heads. And this is a movie where I finally saw it kind of like laid out there, you know, like they, weren’t afraid to go to that territory because that’s where the books would go.

And I thought that to me, it didn’t, it wasn’t cringey because I was expecting it. I was right at home in this world from the very beginning. And that’s why I enjoyed it again. Like I said earlier, it just, I liked being plopped into that, uh, for the first time in maybe ever really, oh God, this might be one of the most faithful Raymond Chandler adaptations I’ve ever.

Um, 

Craig: I think I’m just hung up on the whole 16 and like I’m a high school teacher. So I’m fully aware that some 16 year olds are sexual beings like this. This does not come as a shock to me. Yeah. Some not me. Like God, I was years away.

Well, a couple of. But, uh, it’s not so much that at 16, she’s a sexual being. It’s that the people she has these interactions with dark hair, her own adult, like just gives me the heebie-jeebies. That’s it I’m over it. The actress was of legal consenting age. So it’s all good. 

Todd: Well, it turns out that just to talk more about the complication, the plot, it turns out that the gangster was given a blank book, which is fine because you know, when he’s good, the goons corner, the guy who delivered the book to him, um, in the bathroom, give him death by a thousand cuts.

He has given him fake money. So that was just a deal that was going to go south both ways anyway, and then it is this, um, gosh, what is the woman’s name? The trans woman is Lily. So Lily is the one who actually has the, oh, we don’t know this for a while, but Lily is actually the. Who has the real book and is now kind of on the run with it.

And she doesn’t really know what’s happened to her lover, but she has a pretty good suspicion. Right. Um, and ultimately she’s the one that Fred Ward’s character Lovecraft is trying to track down. Um, but he has to do it by going to meet the gangster. And the gangster happens to be a former partner of his, when they were both on the LA police force.

And so his partner went gangster, you know, he went 

Craig: Clancy 

Todd: brown, he went private eye. You know, since we, we brought up the magic, I thought this was one of the iconic things. When I saw the promos for this movie, when I was a kid, is that he has this zombie thug, just this big gunning guard, big, huge black body guard did is he looks like, um, basically like an African-American version of Tor.

Oh, you know, he was in the Edward movies, a plan nine from outer space, you know, that big wrestler with a kind of white eyes or just stumbles around. He was, he was like one of those earlier B movie monster guys. But anyway, he kind of looks like an updated version of that. And I thought it was cute. So there was the magic and there’s also this idea of the zombies.

And he had this, this dialogue back and forth. It was like, oh, so you’re using zombies. Huh. And what happened? Your regular leg breakfast 

Craig: progress. Zombies don’t eat. Don’t complain on good ideas, but they start to smell after a while. Take good for three months, depending on the. And they begin to rat than what 

Todd: they’re you get some more 30 bucks ahead come fresh from 

Craig: the west end D six, two bucks.

Yeah, that was funny. And I did like it. I mean that, I mean, that’s such a small part, but I liked it too, because it seems like these are the actual, like Haitians on B mythos, not like the ambling eat your brains. Bombies but like just the mind control. Zombies. Um, and that guy, he was, I mean, he was very big and scary.

Todd: Yeah. He was a good character for as little as well. He 

Craig: didn’t say any, but he had a very commanding presence, 

Todd: but then you see the zombies later because it turns out that a big connection that he ends up making that leads him to this woman revolves around some Villa. 

Craig: This is 

Todd: Bo ne, which is under construction right now, which is supposed to be the first all magical community.

And it’s supposedly also built entirely by magic, which means they’re using the zombies to build everything. And as a Fred Ward’s character is talking to the representatives of this Villa on the property. You can see the construction going on in the background that he zombies and you can see they’re not the best workers.

Some of them are just like falling face first into the cement, the banging into each 

Craig: other, like they’re randomly, they’re just dropping dead. Like. 

Todd: And so 

Craig: cute. That was kind of funny. I didn’t understand. I mean, like I understood the overall connection, like apparently displaces special, like, um, they end up needing to do this final ceremony at this place, but I didn’t really understood what drew him there because ultimately like he goes there and he doesn’t really find anything.

Like, he just randomly talks to like the property manager. And then I guess he gets some information from her that he needs. I don’t remember what it was. And then he leaves like, it’s just to let us know. That they’re going to have to go back there later. But I did like the, uh, the, that was pretty 

Todd: funny.

He puts a connection between two people together there because it’s, he finds the paper about Vista Bonita in a, a room that was rented from the old man who has the gremlins in his machine, which is where, uh, the guy who had taken, um, the stolen, the Necronomicon had stayed for a little while. So when he visits there, he finds a connection between that guy and one other character.

I can’t remember it might’ve been actually, oh, that might’ve been where he found the connection between that guy and his boyfriend. Yes. Yes. I think that was it. I mean, you have to pay really, really close attention. If you hope to find. The thread of the investigation. And, but anyway, yeah, it all kind of culminates in that.

So he tracks down this woman. Finally, he, you know, there’s this little kind of romantic subplot of course, going on between him and the nightclub girl, um, which is very typical, right. They had a relationship in the past and then he ran away and she’s upset about it. 

Craig: And now she’s with his ex partner who is the mobster like that.

I will give it credit for that, that everything is connected. All of these disperse characters are connected intimately in some way. So Connie, the lounge singer used to be with Lovecraft, but now that, you know, they, something happened with them and she’s not with him. And now she’s with the mobster, but it seems like she’s not really happy with the mobster.

And there’s a whole thing where she comes to his office slash apartment and like they have. Dialogue. That’s very silly, but very apropos of the genre. See, look, everybody compromises, everybody cheats, everybody uses magic. So the MPI deals out of their pockets and get out of a job, sticking it to the neighbor for the sticker to them, because that’s the way it’s done to all of which I say nuts.

My collar might be a little afraid. Maybe I need a shoe shine. Nobody’s got a mortgage on my soul. I own it free and clear. Not going to apologize for my life. Then ask you to I’m happy. The way things are glad to hear. You got to look ahead to can’t drag around the past. There’s nothing you can do about it sounds like you got a real good grip on things.

It’s so convoluted. That’s my understanding. I’m not as familiar as you, but that’s kind of my understanding of how these things work. They are convoluted. Like it seems like she’s double crossing her lover by being with the detective. But the truth of the matter is she’s really double crossing the detective because the lover knows about it and like it’s all set up.

And then as it ultimately turns out, she’s double crossing them both because she wants the ultimate power. That’s going to be granted by these ancient gods or whatever. So she’s very much this Vixen who, you know, appears to just kind of be arm candy and then love interest and reluctant partner. But all, ultimately it was her game all along.

Like she knew what she was doing and it was all for her and it’s contrived, but I’ll give it credit for being true to. 

Todd: Yeah, but, but can we both agree? It’s not a simple story. 

Craig: Uh, I guess I get it. I mean, because it’s convoluted, but like all of this stuff I have in my notes, like, you know, she goes, I don’t remember where they meet.

They meet somewhere, but, uh, she and the detective and they ended up going back to his office and like, she’s got. Tough with him for a while, but then she, you know, she gives in and they kiss and, and they’re kissing for a while. And I just have, in my notes, this is so boring. Like there’s so much dialogue.

I’m like, uh, like, come on. I’m a poor yet on my mind, 

Todd: I felt like the movie felt long. It was an hour and a half. It felt long. Yeah. I think it felt like. For me just by the sheer amount of stuff that was jam packed into that hour and a half, they are just all over the place. And there’s so many characters and so many things to have to pay attention to.

And if you really want to follow the plot, listen in, you have to be really tuned in to hearing exactly what they’re saying. And then remembering the names that are being thrown around and stuff like that. So that made it feel pretty long for me. And then eventually they come up to the final act where all of this basically gets revealed right in the last 10 

Craig: minutes.

Okay. So the rich guy, David Warner, uh, his character’s name is hack Shaw turns out. He was working with the mobster guy all along. And the fact that the book got stolen from the rich guy that was like their bump in the road. So the rich guy hired the mobster to get the book, but the mobster was always going to give the book back to him.

And that’s where we ended up at this Vista Bonita, uh, where this ceremony is going to go down. Hack Shaw is going to become. Like a God, like he’s going to become one of the old ones 

Todd: or something. The idea is once they unleashed us on the world, then because they’re the ones that unleashed them, they’ll become gods and be given their own planet or something to fulfill with fire and brimstone or something.

Craig: Um, Borden, Clancy brown is going to get to be the ruler of earth and yeah, earth is going to be a terrible hellscape, but he’ll be the boss. So that’s great. So they were all in on it together and all along hack Shaw has intended to sacrifice his own daughter. In fact, that’s why he had a daughter and raised her and was so exactly.

And so she has to be a Virgin for this to work. So they, the girl double crosses her lover Borden. She shoots him and she’s like, no, I want to be the God of earth or whatever. Then, um, I dunno, the detective. Takes her out and not kills her, but like disarms her or something. And Hacksaw is doing the ceremony and the ground starts to shake and it starts to split and this fire light is coming up and eventually this giant butthole comes out the ground within.

It is like, yeah, it’s a monster. Like it has a body and a face, but like most of its faces its mouth. And it’s just a big gaping butthole. Like they’re all just kind of standing there, looking at it for a second. And then it shoots like a tentacle out of its butt hole and like grabs, um, the, the rich guy hack Shaw and like pulls him in and eats him.

And then it just sinks back down. And as it turns out, the reason that this whole thing failed is because the virginal 16 year old daughter, the guard, the police guard that, um, the detective had sent to protect her with 

Todd: our thought, which I thought was totally 

Craig: obvious. Like, you know, it’s, it’s like the monster squad when they think that girl’s, sister’s a Virgin and you know, she’s not, and of course the whole thing fails.

So I knew that was gonna happen. And like, honestly, it didn’t even so much bother me that she hooked up with the guard until Lovecraft. It says something to the guard. Like, I guess you weren’t really thinking about your wife and the 16 year old girl is like, you have a wife and he’s like, oh, whoa, yo. But like gross middle aged, married man bone, his 16 year old charge.

Like that’s disgusting. 

Todd: I thought that was hilarious. I thought it was gross. Gross. That’s what makes it hilarious? Look, I mean, these, these stories, these novels are all about. Everybody is just bad and despicable people who are into disgusting despicable things, and they’re all slowly marching to their own destruction and they all do each other in, because they’re all super selfish, you know?

I mean, that’s what it’s all about. And, and that’s what you get here at the end. You know, it’s just this, uh, I mean, happier ending than, than most of these actually. So 

Craig: yeah, I mean, and that’s just, it like the cases over, like he goes back to his. Office. And he’s like, things are safe for now because I have the book and that’s, that’s fine.

Uh, as, as much as I say, I haven’t seen these types of things. I feel like if I haven’t seen them, I’ve at least seen them portrayed and other things. So I know that’s kind of how these things work out. Like in the beginning, you’ve got the detective with the voiceover. I should’ve known, she was troubled.

The minute you walked in my door and then at the end you get, well, that’s one more for the good guys. I guess I get it. I get the formula. I don’t know. It was just a little too much for me. I didn’t know anything about this. Um, and, and really, you know, in looking up interesting things to tell our listeners, I really couldn’t find all that much about it.

I did. Yeah. I did see that there was a follow-up now I’m, I’m reluctant to call it a sequel, but I guess it’s a SQL of sorts, but it’s not indirect continuity with this movie. There are some recurring characters, but they don’t even have the same backstories and stuff. And, uh, in that it’s set in the 1950s and.

The red scare and communism and mix all the magic in with it. But Fred ward doesn’t return and instead is replaced by Dennis Hopper. Now that would be nuts.

I know anything that has done as operated as nuts and, uh, to this hopper said, and in a television interview, once that he thought that this was the wildest movie that he’d ever been in Dennis Hopper 

Todd: was that you got to see it. We have to, I’m looking at the capitalist now, Penelope Ann Miller, Julian sands.

Craig: I dunno. So it did get a follow up, but, um, I don’t know. I don’t feel like this movie is very well remembered. You know, I never hear anybody talking about we, I, except for you, you have mentioned it to me more than once. And, uh, we did get the request and again, honestly, I had a good time talking about it. I always say that.

And I I’m, I’m really not being disingenuous. Like I really do enjoy talking about these things. I have a lot of fun doing this. We wouldn’t do it if we were having fun. Um, but I, I. I didn’t like the movie, but I do appreciate the request. I never would have watched this if it weren’t for that request. And, uh, I I’m glad you have watched it.

It’s something that I was 99% on aware of, but it’s got people in it that I really like. And it was an experience because I didn’t enjoy it. I wouldn’t watch it again, but there were little things about it that I did enjoy, and I had a good time talking about it with you today. So 

Todd: thanks Nate. Yeah, Nathan, I thank you very much for this blast.

From the past, for me, I was delighted to be reminded of this movie and given an excuse to go and hunt it down and watch it and be able to talk about it’s the icing on the cake. I think this movie is ripe for. You don’t need to remake this movie. You could just make another movie like it, I think. Yeah. If it had come out today in this particular creative climate, I think it would have gone over way, better than me.

It might’ve just been a little ahead of its time, which is to its credit 

Craig: right. In the era of like Harry Potter, like, oh God. I would totally fly today. 

Todd: Absolutely. What we’re seeing stuff like this anyway, and TV shows and things like that. So it would, and, and I, I personally enjoyed it. I just, because I think, again, I’m familiar with the source material.

I liked seeing it played out on the screen. So faithfully, it was a joy to see these characters and these actors that I know very, very well. It was fun to see the inside jokes, even the little magic tricks and things in the background. Yeah. It was a little corny and cheesy at times. I will admit that, but I appreciated the effort and I, I found some entertainment value in that.

I thought of it as just a little. Kind of fun little romp. Yeah. It 

Craig: is light 

Todd: for that. I really enjoyed the movie. Would I go back and watch it again? I’m not sure I would spend another hour and a half doing that, but I might recommend it to a friend or if I had a friend who was particularly well suited to this kind of movie who I felt like had to watch it, I would totally sit down and watch it through with them.

Fair enough. Well, thank you so much, Nathan. Again, for the request. If you have a request, please send it our way. You can just Google two guys and a chainsaw podcast, and you can find our Twitter feed. You’ll find our Facebook page to find our YouTube channel. Hopefully you’ll also find our websites and just leave us a message in any one of those places.

Also refer us to friends. Please share the love. We always enjoy getting new listeners until next time. I’m Todd, and I’m Craig, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Halloween! Much as we hope your day goes today, 1988’s Primal Rage culminates in a festive Halloween party sure to get you in the spirit of the season. We just expect you to survive your own.

With special effects from Carlo Rambaldi and the direct involvement of writer Umberto Lenzi, this is gore-laden time capsule that will tug at the nostalgia strings of most 80’s kids like us. And a special thank you to loyal listener, Jason, for requesting this!

Primal Rage (1988)

Episode 274, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Well, Craig, we come to week four, the last week of our Halloween extravaganza, 2021.

Halloween’s technically on Sunday, but you know, we can’t release like another podcast after that and claim it’s Halloween. Right? We got to jump straight into November and our month of Thanksgiving podcast. Right? Let’s see if we can find one. We’ll be lucky. I wouldn’t mind going back to, um, Blood Rage actually, again,  

Craig: God, get over Blood Rage already. 

Todd: It has become one of those movies that we discovered through this that has just stuck with me. And I love it to death. 

Craig: I know you talk about it every day. 

Todd: Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. And why wouldn’t I, because that movie’s awesome. It’s not just cranberry sauce, baby. This movie, uh, that we’re doing is called primal rage from 1988, just by pure coincidence.

This happened to be on our list for a while and it keeps popping up and lists. And so I’ve been looking for an excuse to do it. It also happened to be requested by loyal listener, Jason, so thank you, Jason, for this request and it being kind of technically a Halloween film and that it does take place on Halloween.

It totally qualifies. I was also just in the mood to watch a goofy eighties horror movie. You, yeah, I know. Go figure.

Honestly, and this is just pure selfishness on my part. And I know yours as well. When I watch anything from the eighties around Halloween time, it brings back the Halloween of my childhood, which was in the eighties. So it really doesn’t even need to be a Halloween movie. It just needs to be a goofy eighties, horror movie to bring back those memories of those movies.

I would watch when I was a kid around this time. So I’m just going to lay it all out there right now. I am so happy. We watched this, I loved this movie to piece. Pretty much purely for nostalgia reasons. I never seen it before and I can’t figure out why. In fact, I kind of can’t figure out why this movie isn’t better known because it is a quintessential, not just eighties horror movie, like eighties high school, except in this case college movie period, it hits all of the notes.

It’s got everything in it. Like big catchy theme song, big party at the end, a bunch of bullies, nice girl teaming up with a bad girl, a hot looking guy who just kind of can’t do anything wrong and gets to the bottom of the whole mystery. And I mean, it’s just, he’s got a goofy friend. I mean, my word, what movie have we seen recently?

That was as eighties as this one. I don’t know. I know he can come up with it. You cannot come up with an answer because the answer is. Yeah, God, are you tired or are you not going to be as excited about this as I am? 

Craig: Um, both.

Gosh. Yeah. I dunno, like. Uh, I totally get where you’re coming from. And I will admit that when it got to the end with the big Halloween party, that was totally, uh, I, I was excited about that. Cause the Halloween party is really cool and it’s full like super cool costumes and unusual. Like we just did monster club that had a big house.

Well, I mean, it was the monster club, but basically it was a big Halloween party and it was people in a bunch of cheap masks and this Halloween party at the end, you’ve got some real, some, a few traditional type costumes, but then there’s some really cool out there stuff going on too. Okay. So the Halloween party was really cool.

Everything else that you said is absolutely true. It’s it’s got all of your formulaic pieces, the story’s silly, but that’s okay. That’s fine. And, and really not. Like, I don’t know. We’ve seen stuff like this. It’s it’s, it’s an infection type movie. It’s a kind of, it’s not really zombie. I mean, it’s more along the lines of, I guess, um, not at all as serious, but more along the lines of like 28 days later where it’s like a rage virus that, uh, people are getting well 

Todd: at times it’s a rage virus.

Sometimes it seems to be more like a maniacally stalking virus. It’s weird. 

Craig: It’s weird. It’s weird. And it’s inconsistent. Like that was that’s the problem. That was weird to me, but whatever. I mean, yeah, there were definitely the fun parts and you’re right. Good-looking people, you said something about the group, the group of bullies were super stereotypical, like crazy stereotypical, which was funny until.

The gang rape stuff. And then that wasn’t so funny. And I was like, what? 

Todd: That came completely out of left field. It changed the tone of the movie entirely for like five minutes. I could not believe what was going on that that’s not just because of the subject matter, but because it seems like these guys like have done this before 

Craig: sometimes.

Right. And, and it was, uh, it feels like it was treated kind of lightly. And I was like, oh my God, Horrible. But anyway, we get ahead of ourselves. 

Todd: We’ll get there and we’ll sit here, Moussa, gape at it one more time before we’re done. But the movie is like, I can’t believe that Umberto Lindsay was involved in this film.

I 

Craig: knew as soon as I pulled, as soon as I pulled up the IMDV page, I’m like, here we go. Another eighties movie written and directed by some Italian guys. Like, of course it was Todd’s turned to pigs or he gets some Italian people. 

Todd: Oh, of course they make the best stuff. I, you know how much I love that. And then he was also involved in a movie after this called nightmare beach, which used a lot of the same actors.

And I guess a lot of the same crew, which he actually directed. This one was. Directed by him as directed by another Italian dude. Never. 

Craig: I hesitate to ask, but remind me why. I know Umberto, Lindsey, 

Todd: cannibal furrow. Okay. Oh, that was horrible. Ferox or whatever. Yeah. That really trashy movie that we saw, but he’s done better stuff.

This is clearly better. I mean, again, he did not direct this, but he was heavily involved. In fact, it sounds like he was kind of onset all the time as an advisor, right. There was some reason why he didn’t want to direct it or couldn’t direct it, but that was about it. But my God, it starts with. With this awesome theme 

Craig: song

Todd: which I thought was kind of catchy, actually, even though it sounds like every other eighties hairband song. Exactly. Well, not hairband, eighties pop song. Right. And then the most active park I’ve ever seen in my life. It’s almost as active as the woods from don’t go into the woods. Remember that movie, like every character there’s a dudes playing trombone.

It’s a college 

Craig: campus, right? Like, I guess it’s like the quad of a college campus or something, but you’re right. There’s it’s. Fantastically eighties, either like a large group of women doing gymnastics, like aerobics, aerobics, like in their leotards. Spandex. And, um, the, our main guy whose name ends up being Sam Nash is riding around on a moped, like taking pictures with his Nope, like Nikon or whatever.

Like, like 

Todd: he has not a care in the world and everything in there is interesting. 

Craig: Yeah. It looks like an eighties commercial, like you expect at the end for him to like, hold up a glass of orange juice or something. 

Todd: Dang gives me the power to go take pictures of everything all day long. 

Craig: Does it? I will say that it, it completely establishes the.

Feel of the movie. And I did, like, I smiled, I was okay. I see what we’re getting into. 

Todd: Right. Come on. You know, you love me for it. 

Craig: Okay. 

Todd: So Sam’s going around on his moped and, uh, taking pictures of everything under the sun, which it lets this theme song play. I think in its entirety, under the credits, not the last time theme song for this movie plays nor.

Is it the last time that theme flock for this movie place in its entirety and during the movie, but there’s a girl and her name is Lauren and her car is getting towed for reasons unknown, because she runs out and he’s like, oh, you can’t take my car. I’m late for class. And the guys like her hair, whatever, whatever.

And then Sam sees this happening and runs up and take some pictures and he’s like, you have to just let it down 

Craig: for her. Okay. Saw what’s the, numnuts this car’s not ticketed in case you didn’t know, it’s illegal to tow and I’d take any car in the state. So I guess if it’s not sitting on off-road wheels and about 10 seconds, you’re looking at grand theft auto and tomorrow’s cover story.

So smile have a nice day. 

Todd: And here we have the past. Of the journalistic photographer. Yes. And fold on full display. 

Craig: I get irritated at some of the most ridiculous things like, so she’s getting towed and she runs out and she’s like, but I was only parked here a minute. She is illegally parked right in front of the library.

The reason that he gets her out of it is because he’s like the car isn’t ticketed. I get irrationally irritated by people who say, I was only parked here a minute. It doesn’t matter. You can’t work 

Todd: there at all. You’re not supposed to park there at all, 

Craig: but that’s a pet peeve of mine, whatever he gets her out of it.

And in such a smart ass way, like he’s such a smart ass about it. He is a smart, but he’s supposed to be. Her Knight in shining armor. Like somebody literally refers to him as that later, but he goes, okay, so apparently he’s a journalist for this college paper or whatever. And he goes back to their newsroom or something.

And there’s this group of coeds that are demanding to see this guy named Duffy. And they’re super mad, but they he’s not there. So they leave and it turns out Duffy’s really just hiding under his desk. And Duffy is kind of. The goofy friend, but not so much. He’s more kind of like the smokes. A lot of cigarettes has an earring kind of long hair.

Like, I don’t know, chip. Right. So he’s not really dumb. No, he’s 

Todd: just a, I liked him. I liked his character. I thought he was one of the more interesting, well, he seems 

Craig: like somebody that I would have been friends with, but he’s so cynical. Like, I feel like. Take him so much. And the reason those coeds are mad at him is because apparently he wrote this expo Jose about how this group of girls were basically prostituted out to recruit athletes, which if that’s a true story is an excellent story that a journalist should write.

But I don’t, I assume it’s true. I don’t know, like Duffy is the one who is all about getting the big story, no matter what, like, you know, whatever, whatever it takes, whatever you have to do, get the big story. That’s uh, the journalist job, but 

Todd: also like stretching the truth a little bit. Oh 

Craig: yeah, yeah, yeah.

He doesn’t sensational. Absolutely. But he, um, has heard that there are these scientists experimenting on. Baboons or something and he wants Sam to look into it, but Sam is hesitant. Well, then we see the scene of the scientist experimenting on this baboons, which I thought that this, I liked the scene. I like these kinds of movies.

I’ve seen movies like this before there’s monkey shines. I can’t believe we haven’t done monkey shines. That’s like a cult classic movie, but there have been others too, where, you know, Xes animal experimentation gone wrong, gone ride. You know, when they have great intentions, they’re trying to regenerate brain cells.

You know, I’m sure if this were actual research that could have all kinds of applications for people with dementia and, you know, brain damage, all kinds of things, so great intentions, but we see it and like they’ve got a bad mood. Dummy that moves a little bit, but it actually, I know for an eighties movie, no, I thought it was actually pretty good, but they’re injecting it with something and monitoring its brain very soon after they inject it with this stuff, it starts to freak out and like the machines and computers that are monitoring its brain starts to freak out too.

And there’s, I guess there’s an investor there who, when he sees this going wrong threatens to pull their funding. And Dr. Etheridge is the main doctor on the experiment and he begs and the scientist gives them 60 days. Dr. 

Todd: and I would also say maybe one of the best actors in the movie. Not that you know, it’s not just a hammy role, but, uh, he is also one of the most decorated actors on the.

Boasts Vinson originally from Sweden, but has been working in Hollywood since like the late sixties and has been in big movies, like the great Waldo pepper with, with Robert Redford. He was in the original Inglorious bastards and then brought back by Quentin Tarantino to play a role in his version. He was in kill bill volume, two.

He’s been all over television and movies, always playing like a kind of tough guy type commandos and soldiers and stuff like that. And, and, uh, I thought this doctor was interesting. He had that little ponytail in the back. That was a little distracting, but wasn’t sure what that was all about, but yeah, it was, it was interesting.

Uh, I thought I kind of liked his character actually, even though it turns out to be really silly. 

Craig: Yeah. I mean, he’s, I don’t know. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do. Yeah. I mean, he is obsessed, which is fine, you know, it’s, it’s his work. I mean, he wants to protect it well, sure. And again, it appears that their intentions are good.

So I don’t know. He doesn’t really come across as a bad guy. Now, later in the movie. He goes to desperate measures to try to further his work and protect his work, which is questionable, but whatever. And we’re still in the process of meeting people. Next we meet Debbie. Debbie is Lauren’s new roommate.

Lauren is surprised that she shows up. Both of these girls are very beautiful girls. Uh, Debbie has really striking blue eyes, so, and dark hair. So she stood out to me days of our lives. I’m 

Todd: waiting for you to say that. I don’t remember to make a chart. Well, not just days of our lives, like a bold and the beautiful too, I think, right?

Oh 

Craig: yeah. Those, those soap folks hop all over the place and good for them, but she’s a, the new roommate and like, she’s just appeared late in the semester or something. And they have this conversation. Lauren’s like, were you sick? And she’s like, no, I had an abortion. Lauren looks kind of a gassed. And Debbie’s like, oh, I’m sorry to surprise you or shock you or something.

And like, Lauren’s, oh, I just am not used to people admitting things like that. And that’s it. Like, it’s never referenced again. Like it was such a strange piece of dialogue now. Like that’s fine. Like, okay, Debbie, good for you for taking care of yourself and making your own choices about your body. That’s great, but it’s completely in consequence.

So the planet, like I just expected that it might come up again or something, but it doesn’t, it’s just 

Todd: well looking at the time period, I think it was a bit of character building, like I think at first, although this idea seems to be dropped a little bit later on, I think at first they’re almost trying to set her up as a somewhat of a bad.

Ooh, she got pregnant and then she had an abortion, which was way more like of a controversial taboo thing then than it really is now I think, and some girls in one of the co you know, they have a classroom seeing with a professor up there and she walks in and sits down and these girls are like chattering a bat, or basically calling her a slut or something or saying she’s so trashy, which I’m not sure why.

No something about her that we don’t, you know, cause she looks just fine. And the 

Craig: same girls that are calling her a skank or whatever are latently flirting with the disgusting professor, the 

Todd: bald overweight, ugly, nasty, also terrible actor. 

Craig: See, and I thought that they were trying, I think still with the whole abortion thing, they were trying to set her up as a strong independent woman, because then also in this scene, this classroom scene, she’s the only one that can provide the answer.

And then we also find out that her major is like nuclear physics or something like that. So she’s supposed to be super 

Todd: smart. Well, and then sends it out. Right. I have an IQ of 185. What a dumb line. I can smell all that 

Craig: stuff. My keys 180 4. Oh God, you don’t look. I’m sorry. 

Todd: Nope. Maybe you just studied, like, yeah, but she and Lauren, I guess that, you know, Lauren and her getting clothes and uh, and then we meet Sam and Duffy again in the bar.

This is so cool too. Right. It’s just, I actually, I think that this movie was filmed in Florida, at Florida state or north Florida, some kind of university actually on campus. This bar though, where they were, I guess it’s a bit of a dated bar. You probably saw this as, you know, this college bar everywhere, but it reminded me of what bars, like in.

Eighties and seventies were like, like in the Midwest, these kind of dark, everybody goes there, lots of wood paneling, writers, posters, and things. You know what I mean? Like the 

Craig: neon signs. Yeah. Yeah. 

Todd: It kind of gave me, you know, good feelings as well. Yeah. 

Craig: I mean, it, it, it seemed very much like a college hangout bar, um, very, very casual and laid back.

But, and again, I did like Duffy, I like cynical people. I’m a cynical person. So I did like him, but he drugs a guy, like there’s just this annoying guy sitting next to them. And because he’s annoying Duffy drugs, him and I was like, what? Like. Okay. First of all, not cool. Don’t drug people. Secondly, why did you have those drugs in your coat pocket to anyone 

Todd: who had no idea?

Craig: Right. And like, I don’t know. It didn’t, it wasn’t like he roofie them. Like the guy didn’t pass out. It was like he had like ipecac or something, something that made him sick. And again, it like, it hadn’t nothing to do with anything. It was just a bit, and it was weird. 

Todd: It feels like something you’d seen a John Hughes movie, you know?

I mean, they don’t play as well today as they used to. But you always saw these characters doing these wacky things, just offhandedly, like this. Another day for them, you know, which then appalls us and appalls all the people all around them. And, and I thought one thing that was kind of interesting about this movie is they, they were always sprinkling this kind of stuff in there, right.

There was always a little bit of humor dropped in, even in some of the more intense scenes towards the end. The movie never really lost its light tone almost to a jarring degree because there’s some serious violence that gets going on, um, by the end of it. But still there are these kind of like psych gags and kind of wacky jokes and things in the background and stuff kind of thrown in offhandedly that I thought was, I liked it actually, but it’s still, it’s so weird, you know?

I mean, nobody makes movies like this anymore. 

Craig: Yeah. And I found that to be uneven. Like I just didn’t get it. I didn’t, when it was. You’re right. You’re right. It was a different time. And I think that I would have reacted to it differently in the eighties, but drugging people isn’t funny. And then there are other things, gosh, and now hearing myself say that out loud, I’m like, oh my God, quit being such a baby.

Like, it’s just like, I get it. It’s just a movie. But I don’t, I know we are, we are old men now, but there are other things too that I feel like we’re played a little bit for the humor that I just didn’t really think was funny. And I don’t know, maybe it’s dark humor and that’s that’s okay. You know, that’s fine.

Again, it is just a movie, whatever Duffy wants to break into. So he does, he borrows Sam’s, uh, camera and he breaks into the lab and he’s taking pictures and he sees the baboons in a cage. Now he had mentioned that he was gonna release the monkeys after that he got all of his evidence or whatever, but he doesn’t even have to because he, when he takes pictures of the baboons, the camera flash irritates it.

And this scene actually kind of literally scared me because I was concerned for that actors, safety, whatever primate it was. Now we’re talking about a real animal now, whatever primate it was, I don’t know if it was a bad Boone or if it was some other primates that they put a big red diaper on. I don’t know, but it was real and it clearly was agitated.

And I, I was a little nervous, but it does it. He doesn’t have to release it. It breaks out of that. Cage it’s in like a frickin dog cage. Like it’s ridiculous. It could have like, just want, you know, the regular dog can all that. You just lift the latch and pull it like a primate would figure that out anyway, but it breaks out and it bites him and it escapes.

And I actually thought that the filmmakers did a pretty good job here of mixing the real animal footage. With the dummy. Now the, the, the dummy didn’t look exactly like the real animal, but it was fairly seamless in that you see, you see the baboons running campus and through the streets and you see a car approaching and you see the real animal, like in the headline.

But then you just see a split second before it gets hit, where it is the dummy and the dummies, like reaching up, like it’s going to attack the car or whatever it gets hit and it kind of explodes. But the whole sequence I thought actually was really well executed. 

Todd: Let’s get, it was, I mean, it could have looked worse.

It could have looked really fake and you’re right. I mean, you knew it was fake. You could kind of tell moments where it was fake, like you’re saying, but actually it was, it was, it was done very well. I really liked the music here. This kind of reminds you. It’s just like in our gentle movie where suddenly there’s this intense scene and out of nowhere, Almost hard rock guitar starts

that style Ablin did it, you know, they didn’t, but oh, that always makes me feel good too. I love that stuff. It was good. It was a good scene. The monkey puppet gets hit by the police. Uh, and so, uh, you know, they all kind of. And it’s dead. And every time the police are involved, somehow the doctor shows up as 

Craig: well.

Every time he’s always there. I kept waiting 

Todd: for the one thing that we almost never saw, which was I was waiting for the cop to show up. Right. All right. There’s been too many murders. Let’s get to the bottom of this and start interviewing everybody. And that, that really didn’t happen. And I was kind of shocked.

That was really the only part of the formula missing from this movie that an actual nudity. Yes. 

Craig: Well, and th the scene also surprised me because I expected the monkey to be a persistent threat. I didn’t expect the monkey to be taken out of the equation so soon. Now it makes sense because Duffy is now infected apparently being bit or scratched by something or someone that is infected.

Rage, 

Todd: primal rage, primal rage. But you know, it’s funny. It took a long time for that to become consequential. It’s slow. We still have a lot more of this kind of like getting to know 

Craig: people exposition. This is where we meet who I lovely lovingly in my notes refer to consistently as the douche bags, there’s just this group of three douche bags that they have a leader.

The leader’s name is love joy, but they’re always together. They’re just douche bags. Like they’re always just aggressive. Lovely. And. In the most disgusting ways, like hitting on women. And I just have in my, uh, my notes in quotes, um, prime, freshmen, titties, like these are the kinds of things that they say, Hey bud, what’s shaking a new crop of prime freshmen.

Today’s we need some fresh party meat, thirsty candidate. They’re so stereotypical. I loved it. Yeah. I mean, I like, 

Todd: I don’t love it. I just love this and movies. 

Craig: Right? Exactly. I like the stereotypical nature, but they’re so toast. I suppose they’re supposed to be so fine, whatever. Like, uh, they harass the, our two main girls, Lauren and Deb.

And once again, Sam, you know, intervenes and is like their night and shine shining armor. 

Todd: I love that bit when he comes in and he’s like, I see mid level joy. 

Craig: One of our legendary lovers take a hike Nash. As they asked you, if you were pennies yet, speak at a mic. 

Todd: Yeah. Dialogue. Nuts, so stereotypical, but so funny and fun because of it.

I wrote, well, you wrote these guys down as the douchebags. I wrote them down as Cobra, Kai. That’s what precisely those guys. 

Craig: Right. And then, I mean, again, jumping the gun, but at the end, for the Halloween party, they dress in skeleton outfits. Totally. Even better than the skeleton outfit from Cobra, Kai.

Cause they’ve got cool light up, but yeah. Oh, I totally thought of that too. They, they are they’re, they’re just jerks now to be fair to a movie that I love the guys in Cobra, Kai weren’t evil, they were just misled and 

Todd: misled and misunderstood as we learn later decades later.

Craig: But now Duffy is getting sick. Just, you know, slowly. No. Super sick at first, just under the weather, but we see him, the bite on his arm is painful and clearly in five. I also 

Todd: love all of the wounds on these people look like things that are life-threatening and they just like are covering it with the shirt every now and then going oh, and kind of touching it.

And what is that? Oh, nothing. Nothing. Just like a scratch. I got like, no, this is like disgusting. Your muscle is showing through here. There’s POS coming out of it. It’s it’s, it’s pulsing. All of these people are just writing off these nastiest looking wounds, uh, in the world, which is also pretty stereotypically funny.

And what does he do? Like he was going through his house and he opens up a medicine cabinet to find medicine and just pours a can of old beer in there, on it. 

Okay. 

Craig: Yeah, like he’s looking for a disinfectant. I think he’s looking for disinfectant, but he can’t find any there’s alcohol and beer. It hurts like crazy or whatever it’s silly, but fine.

Whatever Etheridge the scientist sees Duffy on the surveillance camera. So they know it’s him. Salmon Duffy, go on a double date. Uh, Sam with Lauren Duffy with Debbie, which I don’t know. I mean, kind of comes out of nowhere, but it’s 

Todd: college, I guess

Craig: Sam and Duffy go to the bathroom together, which I thought only girls did. I don’t know. Typically 

Todd: take a friend for Dundess nor it. No. Do I pretend that I’m going to pee on him? That it was all a little, right? 

Craig: It’s like swing your Dick around Lego. Just testing your reflexes. Oh God. It makes me uncomfortable to talk to other guys at the year out.

Like I will, but like face for like, if I talks to know why you’re at all, like, all right, I will talk to you, but no eye contact, like look at 

Todd: the last, this is the code. This is how we are to anybody out there has never been in a men’s bathroom. We’re going to tell you they’re not portrayed accurately in the movies.

Craig: Oh boy. Um, so while they’re in the bathroom, uh, the jerk love joy comes over and is harassing the girls and just says horrible, sexist things to them. Get lost. And he’s like, why don’t I lose my face and your boobs,

Todd: this is why I’m going to watch this movie again, over and over. I, I just it’s so silly. It was just, it was just charming. I love how this is these guys, right? It’s these, these guys and these movies, somebody does some minor slight to them and suddenly the rest of their life is devoted to murdering this person.

You know what I mean? And that’s the situation, Sam embarrasses him in front of these girls. And so now he and his goons are going to take revenge against them. Right. You know, it’s it’s so, it’s so 

Craig: dumb. Well, the thing is like, in most of these movies, Bullies are so easy to laugh at. And these guys are just so mean-spirited like even early, early on they’re so mean spirited.

It’s hard to even laugh. It’s just like, they just are such jerks and it gets worse. It does only get worse. I guess the two couples separate after their group date, Lauren throws herself at Sam in his room, which is fine. Again, ladies get yours. I’m not judging, but whatever. And then Deb and Duffy have, you know, like a sweet conversation about how they both have bad pass or whatever.

And the thing that bothered me, first of all, Duffy chain smokes again, not judging, I’m a smoker. I’m not proud of it, but it’s gross. But beyond that, I mean, that’s, that’s gross. But he’s obvious, like he’s clearly sick. Like he says stuff about not feeling well. And she talks like, she’s like, oh my God, you’re really sweaty.

And he is like, he’s clearly ill. And she makes out with him anyway, gross. That’s disgusting. First of all, his mouth is going to taste like an ashtray. Secondly, he is clearly sick and while they’re making out, he bites her neck and she pushes him off and she’s like too aggressive, too aggressive. And then he’s like, oh, sorry.

And he goes to light another cigarette. And she grabs him and starts kissing me again. Like this is such a weird scenario. There are so many reasons she shouldn’t be kissing him, including the fact that he got super aggressive with her within 10 days. But I guess she’s into that, which 

Todd: okay. That’s why I thought they were kind of, this is where, you know, again, I think they were trying to push her as a little bit of a, a lives on the edge girl, even though she’s super smart.

I kind of. That aspect of her character. Cause it was a little new, you know, it wasn’t just the, this is the slut, this is a smart girl. You know, this is the girl who’s, uh, maybe got a little bit of a, of a, of an edgy pass, but is also super smart is attracted to this guy because he’s yeah, he’s, he’s kind of like her in his own way.

Like he’s clearly pretty smart, but like you said, he’s got a bit of an edge to him and just super cynical to be annoying. You know, nobody wants to be around somebody. 

Craig: He is right. He is super cynical, but I mean, she, to be fair, he’s an attractive man. Yeah. I found him attractive. He’s got kind of the gruff, you know, look going on or whatever.

And when they’re talking, he’s nice and she even says something, you know, she’s like, you know, beneath this rough cynical, exterior, you’re actually a really nice guy. And he’s like, oh. Ask all the people I’ve written the exposés about, but it’s a silly scene, but you, I, I saw it like, yeah. I mean, he does seem like a nice guy.

It’s not that I’ve found it unrealistic that she would be attracted to him. I just thought it was gross that she would kiss him when he was clearly sick. True. The next day he goes to the doctor and his wound is disgusting at this point. And for really no reason other than everybody gets annoyed waiting in the emergency room, he freaks out any attacks, the other patients and orderlies and nurses and things, and like destroys the waiting room.

And then he runs around town, destroying things, shrieking like a baboons, and then 

Todd: falls down and like his eye explodes or it’s like the corner of his eye was it isn’t supposed to be the vein, but I don’t know, but I thought 

Craig: he died. Like blood, like shoots, like, like shoots, like a water gun out of the side of his eye.

And he falls down. He collapses. I assumed he was dead too. And Sam hears from his news office. Something has happened. So he goes to the hospital again, Etheridge is there. Cause he’s always there. Then we find out that the douchebags are planning revenge on Duffy. We see Deb, she’s sick now Duffy again is just running around screeching and like attacking cars with street signs and things.

And he’s, he’s all gross now. Like as they get sicker, they it’s not zombie. Like they just look like they have a terrible, terrible infection everywhere. Yeah. They’re pissy and scabby and gross. He kills a cop in a lecture hall. 

Todd: But in the meantime, Sam is looking for him, no word hasn’t gotten around who this guy is, but just Sam hasn’t seen Duffy.

So he goes to his house and he can’t find him. And then he goes in, he actually goes through the trouble of developing Def developing Duffy’s photos, which I thought was cute. Right. But at the same time, Debbie is looking like, hell basically exactly the same. And Sam develops some of Duffy’s photos, prince basically.

And one of them is of a baboons in a cage. And so I’m not sure what this means to him because he knew that Duffy went 

Craig: there. He knew that he was planning on going there, but when they found out that the monkey had escaped, Duffy said I wasn’t there. Like he’s adamant. Oh, 

Todd: okay. So he finds out he was there 

Craig: information, right.

Confirmation that he was there. So he confronts etheric. The scientist with the picture. Now he’s finally willing to talk, right? That’s the only way you can get them to talk. Meanwhile, Deb, I don’t know where she’s going, but she’s walking around by herself at night on campus, which is inadvisable um, young ladies out there.

Yeah. The douche bags come upon her and hassle her. And I just didn’t know, this is so weird. Like I just expected them to give her a hard time. But in fact, in fact, they abducted her. 

Todd: She’s clearly sick, she’s sweating. And she 

Craig: says, she’s sick. Just leave me alone. I’m sick. And she’s just, yeah, she looks disgusting, but they put her in the car.

They forced her to drink. Um, like, you know, they pour beer down her throat. Basically they take her back to their dorm or their frat house or whatever it is. And like we said before, this. Casually discuss. Now I say, discuss this is all in very fast and in the heat of the moment, but they casually discuss the fact that they’re going to gang rape her.

And like, one of them is like, I want to go first. And the other one’s like, you always go first. And then one of them is like, let’s all sticker at the same time, like a pork, 

Todd: your pie. This was 

Craig: so aggressive and they get undressed and she’s on the bed. And they’re putting on 

Todd: masks that 

Craig: pulling out. One of them puts on a thing on his finger, which I’ve, I think I’ve seen another horror movies, but I think it is like a BDSM thing where like, you know, you cut people and, and make them bleed.

It’s so gross. Like it’s just the whole concept of it. Not only the horrifying notion of what could happen here, but the fact that they have done it many times, like they are accustomed to this now, fortunately she has primal rage, so she’s able to fight them off and she scratches them horribly and bites several of them and, and she gets away.

She gets them all somehow. So well, she injures, I, again, I don’t know the logistics of it, but she, at least she at least deeply scratches or bites all of them. And then it cuts to a scene where that gross, disgusting skeezy professor is seducing a girl who needs a better grade. Such a stupid trope, but we see it all over the place and they hear something outside the car and the professor goes out to investigate.

It doesn’t find anything comes back in the girl’s been strangled and then Duffy rips his face.

Todd: I was a little disappointed in, I mean, some of the makeup was good or serviceable, and then other times it just looked like they were smearing blood around, you know, it was kind of inconsistent as to the quality of, of the, you know, the makeup and, and the, the S the practical effects with the kills. I thought, you know, I don’t know.

I actually thought I looked 

Craig: pretty, pretty good. Even the E yeah. Even the face ripping off, I thought looked pretty good. I mean, there was, there was texture to it. And, um, in the end, you know, when we S I say the aftermath, I mean, it all just happened. In seconds. Um, but you see his teeth and like no 

Todd: lips.

Yeah. That’s true. That’s true. 

Craig: I thought it looked pretty good and, and it is. I don’t know. It’s funny because if somebody asked me to describe this movie, the first word I like gory, wouldn’t be one of the first things that I sell, but really there is a fair amount of gore, um, and, uh, quite a bit of violence, a lot of violence actually.

But, uh, the, the cops come looking for Duffy, Deb, sick, disgusting. Deb asks for Lauren’s help. Um, Sam, uh, eventually Sam has already been to Duffy’s house at least once, but then Duffy finally comes home and apparently Sam is waiting for him there. And, um, Sam offers to help, but Duffy attacks him and Sam is able to, I’m your friend.

I want to help you. And so Duffy pulls a gun out of his waistband and hands it to Sam and says, Kilz says, kill me. And Sam doesn’t want to, but Duffy attacks him again. So he does. He shoots him. And he calls Etheridge. Cause Etheridge knows that Duffy is infected at this point and he wants to get ahold of him so we can test them or whatever.

So Sam calls, Etheridge and says, he’s dead. And Etheridge is, well, I need to do an autopsy. And Sam’s like you can’t. Well, it turns out that Sam staged a fire. Duffy’s house, I guess, to protect him. Uh, I don’t know. 

Todd: Well, just before this, Lauren came home looking for Debbie and couldn’t find her. And it was right at this moment as she’s walking through the house.

Actually thinking in my head, man, we haven’t had a shower scene in this movie yet. And then she does, she walks into the bathroom and kind of forgets about looking for Debbie and decides it’s time to take a shower, but no nudity. It’s all just kind of shoulder up stuff. And it’s, I know, 

Craig: I thought it was funny because the camera was a little bit wide, like maybe to the top of her chest.

And then when she went to take off her towel or whatever she was wearing, it tightened on her face. And I was like, oh, we’re not. No, 

Todd: this actress had this in her contract. No nudity for me. And so, I mean, it’s so silly she gets in the shower and then we get the classic, uh, hands, uh, you know, point of view, somebody coming towards the shower and, oh, no, what’s going to happen.

Uh, random shots of her scrubbing her legs or whatnot. But again, nothing really beyond that, but it’s, it’s Debbie and Debbie just opens the curtain and scares her, but then she’s like, I’m really in trouble. I need help. I’m really, really sick. Uh, and so I think this is how they all kind of link up, right.

Is that, uh, Lauren takes Debbie over to see Sam, which at the same time Sam’s got the doctor and, and, uh, everybody there as well. Right. And they’re looking over. 

Craig: Yeah. And they leave her, they leave her there now. Y like leave her there. And then Etheridge runs tests. Well, Debbie attacks, Sam and 

Todd: Lauren, and then they, they knock her out or something and he calls the doctor.

And of course the doctor shows up in his like, man, she’s really in bad shape. We need to get her to my lab. I’m thinking, no, take her to a hospital people. Yeah. But he supposedly also has a cure right. Sitting in the fridge. Wasn’t that what it was, which also never came into play. 

Craig: I will see. And I don’t know if he really had anything or if they just thought that he would like, well, he must know what’s going on.

Like I know he, he 

Todd: referenced one didn’t he didn’t, didn’t he point to earlier in the movie, when Sam, when he finally had that talk with Sam and he’s showing him his lab and stuff, doesn’t he open up the fridge and point to a vile in there and say, yeah, if they ever are lucky enough to find your friend alive, we can use this on him, but I haven’t tested it.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I thought there would be a thing at the end where, you know, the very end one of them was going to need. You know, that’s how we’re going to save Lauren or Deb or Sam or whatever, 

Craig: but that never happened. No, and I, I was, you know, when Deb started getting sick, I was, I was sad and I, and I hoped, I hoped that, uh, they would be able to save her because I liked her and she was very pretty and I wanted her to, and she’s smart and tough and I liked.

But, uh, he runs tests on her, you know, once the other two are already gone and he goes over her and she’s strapped down to a table and he says, I’m sorry, dear. It’s too late to save you. However, there’s so much I can learn from you. Think of it. Debbie, you could be making major medical history, future victims worldwide could owe their recoveries to you.

Debbie. I envy you your life. What really counts since you are no longer a sound mind I have made the decision 

Todd: for you. He suddenly turns evil. Um, that was, I don’t know. Right. 

Craig: And so he’s going to kill her, I guess. So he can. Experiment mint on her. And he’s got what I assumed was this lethal injection that he sticks in her neck and injects her with.

And then she breaks free and kills him. Fine. That that’s fine. But this injection never has any effect. So weird. 

Todd: I didn’t, they did the same thing to Duffy in the hospital. Remember the hospital scenes going crazy, swinging a baseball bat around and a doctor runs out and stick some injection in him makes a big deal out of it, but then he runs away and like nothing happens.

Craig: Uh, well, I mean, if that was just supposed to be a sedative that works on normal, he does work. But if we’re, if we’re talking about, you know, a huge vial of some something lethal, but who knows, maybe the primal rage over contexts. Okay. And so then Sam and Lauren are at this Halloween party and they are the only one 

Todd: not.

Craig: And, okay. So what I will say about this party is it looks amazing and I want to go to it. And like I said before, There are, uh, traditional costumes, but even the traditional costumes are good. Like these people really went all out and I went to college. So I remember that in college, we knew how to have a good time.

And we went all out for this type of stuff. Lots of us. Now I hung out with a lot of theater kids, so 

Todd: they went all out that other degree 

Craig: it’s true. Um, but it just looks super fun and it’s enormous. Like, it seems like at least half of campus must have hundreds and hundreds 

Todd: of they did not skimp on the scene at all.

Craig: No. And, and, and there’s a live band. The only thing that I’ll say, and this is not a slam on this movie at all, this is movies in general. I have never been to a party where every single person. Is on the dance floor, dancing for their alarms,

Todd: but you’d like to, 

Craig: I would like to the other thing it’s so it’s funny to watch because if you watch, like, these are clearly extras because nobody’s really dancing with anybody in particular, like it’s just whoever you happen to be, oh, hello, I’ll dance with you for a minute. Ooh, turn around. Here’s somebody

that said it’s super high energy. It looks like super fun. And on top of those traditional costumes, there are some costumes that I don’t know where they got them, or if somebody on their team may have them, but they are super unique and creative and interesting and really, really cool. 

Todd: This is Halloween, right?

So this is where the Halloween bit comes in. Yeah, for sure. I was actually a little sad that they didn’t have a little bit more Halloween sprinkled into the movie, if not even just decorations in the background or something. There’s like one mention of it towards the beginning. There’s a little poster in the bag that says something about the Halloween dance.

Okay, cool. Cool. At the same time, there is a full-on rock band and stayed show going. And we get, it’s basically all this as montage and it’s got again, this great, awesome 80 song playing in its entirety through this entire sequence. These three goons who just before they dawned their skeleton costumes were comparing their wounds and laughing about them.

Uh, now have, like you said, it’s like the Cobra Kai costumes, but they have awesome skull masks where the eyes light up. Oh, that was so cool. Was super creepy 

Craig: and cool. I loved this part. Oh my gosh. It was so great. And it was so Halloween. And we’ve talked about this at Halloween before. Like these guys, once they get there, they just go nuts and start killing people in plain sight, but it’s Halloween.

Yeah. People just think it’s gags or whatever, and they’re great. Loved it. Oh, they’re great. 

Todd: There’s a guy. This is so creative. There’s a guy who’s kind of dressed, uh, as, as a, as a dude who’s hanging, uh, he’s got like a noose around his neck that he’s kind of perpetually holding up. So this guy grabs him and actually chucks it over like a basketball thing and pushes a button that pulls him up and the guy ends up hanging there.

There’s another person in a mass that it’s like a Salvador Dali thing or whatever. It’s like heads 

Craig: and out of bounds coming out of the 

Todd: nose. Yeah. And he goes over and chokes that person as he’s squeezing them or whatever blood is pouring out of all of those spouts. And it was cool. I mean, it was very.

Very inconsistent because at this point, what they’re doing seems a little more deliberate and not like just rage. They’re kind of seeking people out through the party. Somebody bumps into them, that’s the dude they’re killing or like, they’re just looks like an opportunity. So they kill this guy. Um, you know, so it was kind of that sort of deal, 

Craig: uh, well, and it was the killing, the killing of the people.

Like I could almost believe that that could happen and people might not notice, especially since it’s so loud and there’s so much going on, but there’s one point where one of the douche bags grabs a guy’s hand and D gloves him. And when I see it say deeply loves him. I mean, the gloves, him, of his skin, that guy.

Would freak the F out that there’d be no hiding that unless they killed him too, which I don’t remember them killing him. Um, meanwhile, Deb is also running around killing people, not as many, but she kills a cop and she kills a 

Todd: poor guy. There’s a big guy who dresses up and like a girl, like a little girl’s outfit, you know, 

Craig: like a baby, like a big fat new year’s baby or something.

And 

Todd: he walks by and he sees her. And of course she looks like, hell, but in Halloween it just looks like great makeup. And he goes, Hey, nice costume. And she lashes out at him and kills him. And I was like, oh, that poor guy. 

Craig: I know I felt bad for him. Yeah. I feel like she attacks me. He was like, I’m sorry. Or something.

It was terrible. Yeah. It was too bad. But anyway, as it turns out, they’re chasing these, these bad guys. The skeleton guys are chasing Lauren and Sam all around. One of them gets to sand. And Sam kills him somehow. Like 

Todd: some stick through the head. Somehow. 

Craig: That was a great. Yeah. I don’t remember exact like, uh, a sticker, a Piper, something through the head.

So that’s one down then another one Chase’s Sam. And he does the old mechanical bleachers trick. And I say the old mechanical bleachers trick, but maybe they did it first. I don’t know. I just remember this from the faculty feel like that. Yeah. Yeah. They, uh, Elijah would traps the alien at the end, in the mechanical bleachers, just like.

Todd: I didn’t know that, that now you spoiled it for me. I haven’t actually seen the faculty, but when I saw this, I was like, oh man. You know, when I was a kid and I was in high school, I always imagined this sort of thing happening because those bleachers are, it’s just, just as a fascinating thing. I don’t know if they do this in other countries or whatnot, but you know, it’s just the bleachers themselves kind of fold up so that you can use the whole gym during gym class.

But if there’s a game, then you push a button and the bleachers just sort of unfold. They just kind of stretch out, um, to full extension. So they’re now steps and he just does that in reverse. He pushes the button, this guy’s already under the bleachers and before he can get out, it’s closing in, on him and finally crushes his head.

I thought that was a great kill. It was so. 

Craig: Yeah, it was good. It was good. I had just seen it before. I’m not, not to this movies discredit cause they did it first, but I had seen it before. So then the last douche is after and the last one is the main one, love joy or whatever his name is. Um, he’s after her.

And uh, she hits him with a bat or something and it’s a big chase with her, hiding him, finding blah, blah, blah. Um, at some point primal rage, Deb saves Lauren from one of the guys, but then that guy rips her to shreds and Sam finds her body 

Todd: later. I thought we were getting like a primal rage battle. At that point, they really missed an opportunity for these two kids to go off on each other.

You know, 

Craig: they really did. We just see the aftermath, but then love joy. And Lauren ended up in the locker room and he finds her and he grabs her and he pulls her out of a lock. Sam shows up just in the Nick of time and cuts his head off with an ax. Um, and then, and, and so now, We believe that everybody with the primal rage is dead.

So everything should be fine. It’s the next morning the cops are there. They’re interviewing the kids, bodies are being brought out. And then Lauren is moving out of her dorm room and Sam is helping, he’s taking a box down to the car or whatever, just as she’s about to leave, she gets grabbed. And they, they take their time and showing us who it is.

Like they intentionally only show the arm, grabbing her. So we’re like, who is it? Um, but it turns out to be Etheridge who we thought was dead, but apparently isn’t, he’s just got the primal rage. Um, and so Sam fights with him and ends up.

Todd: He has the primal rage. Don’t worry 

Craig: as, uh, he ends up throwing him over a balcony and his head lands right on his sprinkler. So that like this sprinkler is like shooting out of his mouth, which was fun. I enjoyed it. But I also was like, Ooh, is this like setting up for a SQL, like will the primal rage get into the water supply?

Todd: Interesting, interesting. That was hilarious. He said it was hilarious. It’s shooting out of his mouth at regular intervals, so funny. 

Craig: And Sam’s like, let’s get out of here. And so they jump into her Miata. I think 

Todd: I’m off to the theme song again, to the 

Craig: theme, to the happy fun poppy theme song was so very apropos of the eighties.

Uh, yeah, I mean, it, I’m not as stoked about it as you are, but it definitely did have, uh, it’s fun elements. I, I really enjoyed the Halloween party. There were some creative kills. There were just so it wasn’t silly. To be, uh, like a constant so bad. It’s good movie. You think so? Yeah. I like there were moments like when Duffy or whatever his name was when he was running around shrieking like a baboons.

That was hilarious. I wanted everybody with the primal rage to shriek like a baboons, but they didn’t that bothered me. Uh, I don’t know. 

Todd: I liked watching these people act in all of their hilarious glory, Patrick Lowe, who was Sam Nash? I could, I could have sworn he w he has a face. It looks like it would have been in like 15 of these movies in the eighties.

And he’s only been in like two or three. He was, um, the first victim of the driller killer in slumber party, masker we’ve done. And this. And like maybe one other thing. And that’s it. I can’t believe at why he was, he was a good, I mean, you know, he was fine and he was handsome. Yeah. Handsome, smile, smiling.

Pretty good actor kind of knew the role he was playing, played it to the hill. I thought it was cool. And of course these bullies were silly. Like the dialogue between the bullies was so laugh out loud. Hilarious. 

Craig: But, but yeah. And then the sadistic gang rapers and like, so dark it’s so dark, listen, it may just be me, anybody who listens to our podcast.

This is no surprise that makes me so very uncomfortable. It makes me sick to my stomach and I just have a very, very low tolerance, um, for that. So maybe other people wouldn’t be as affected as I was, but it just, it really bothered me and I’m super glad. That she fought back and got away. That’s great. But just even the notion that these horrible men had done this before.

Todd: Yeah. And had the props, I think for you, it sorta sounds like that just sort of cast a dark cloud over the film for you or, or it’s ale that contributed to the unevenness that kind of made it hard to settle in and really enjoy it to huge degree. I don’t know, I guess for, no, it bothered the hell out of me.

I thought, oh my God, this has come out of left field and this is really uncomfortable. But I think I had just kind of put it out of my mind after that. I remember, you know, when I was a kid watching karate kid, I thought it was the coolest movie. We used to watch it all the time. And then after not having seen it for a very long time, I went back to watch it as an adult.

And I was actually quite shocked at how brutal the bullies are in that movie. They are green and they are violent. And the fight scenes in that movie, when they’re just beating, like they would kill, they would have killed. Daniel, you know, if Mr. Miyagi hadn’t come in, they were just that brutal. And that surprised me, even in the 

Craig: very beginning, Johnny is vicious with Allie that would never fly 

Todd: today.

It would be lighter. It would have to be lighter than that. And so this movie, like I said, like that too, I feel like maybe in my mind, I kind of give it a pass because it it’s, I mean, not that that’s a little, a little over the top, even for this time, but things were just a little more like this back then.

Like we weren’t so sanitized, we weren’t really worried about this sort of thing. And so movies did push things to the edge. They had characters that were kind of very violent and very carbon copying over the top. And so I guess I was just slipping back into that mode and that’s why I kind of like enjoyed it, but even still that scene was above and beyond anything I’d ever seen, to be honest.

Craig: So. But for the first part of the movie, I thought it was fine for a movie. And you had told me, you said it culminates in a Halloween scene. So I, I, the whole time I was like, God, I hope this Halloween scene is good because this doesn’t really feel like that much of a Halloween movie. And it’s going to be our last one, but it got to that Halloween party.

And I’m like, yup, totally. Yup. It’s a Halloween one, a 100% Halloween movie, especially if you haven’t seen it, watch it. And how it’s good. I mean, it’s a, it’s a good eighties violent year, right? I’m, I’m a little surprised that it’s not better known. I guess not because it’s great, cause I don’t think it’s great, but it does have some moments that I’m surprised that I don’t hear about or haven’t heard about.

And it’s, if you, if you’re a fan of, of horror and if you’re a fan of eighties horror, which obviously we are, you should watch it. You should 

Todd: watch it. And it’s so competently. It’s better than a handful of these movies very much 

Craig: as well.

Todd: All right. Well, thank you again for listening during this Halloween season, hopefully we picked up a few more listeners during this time. If you enjoyed this podcast and the films that we’re talking about this October, please send us out to a friend so they could share in the fun to season with us, recommend some films for us to do as the year comes to a close and the new year arrives.

You just look us up online, two guys, and a chainsaw podcast, and you’ll find our social media channels and things out there. Just drop us a message and give us some feedback. We really like to hear it. And once again, thanks to Jason for your request. Also, while we’re talking about. 

Craig: The happiest of Halloween seasons to all of you. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you do something fun and spend some time with your friends or family.  

Todd: I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Although we LOVE doing kid-oriented horror films from time to time, animation is a first for our podcast. But being Halloween season, we could not resist revisiting this underrated, surprisingly frightening family film from the Robert Zemeckis/Stephen Spielberg ImageMovers team.

If you’re looking for a good Halloween flick to watch with the fam, check it out! Then listen to us yammer on about it…

Monster House (2006)

Episode 273, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: and I’m Todd

Craig: And we are continuing our Halloween months. This week was my turn to pick. We’ve been, uh, taking turns and I wasn’t sure, you know, there are, uh, a lot of Halloween movies out there and some of them look like they have some pretty good potential.

Some of them look pretty stupid. Not that I’m above doing stupid movies at all, but, 

Todd: or knows we’ve done a few, um, or that a view, 

Craig: but I decided to go a little bit different this week. I don’t know. I hope that, uh, our loyal fans will respect this decision because it’s, uh, a little unorthodox for us. I decided this week that we should do 2006’s Monster House, which is a PG rated family film, but it is set on Halloween and it has a lot of horror elements to it. I would kind of describe this as gateway horror for kids, something that’s relatively safe for kids to watch, but still with some dark elements and themes and, and. Frankly, some pretty serious, uh, scares, uh, in some places.

And I just remembered liking it. I hadn’t seen it for a long time. I had seen it before. I don’t remember when the last time I saw it was, but I remembered being struck by how scary it was for a family film now, going back and watching it again. I think that my memory of. Was I think I remember it being a little scarier than it really was, but, uh, it does definitely have some scary elements and it’s just a super, super fun Halloween film.

I mean, it’s set on the day before Halloween and Halloween day. And it’s just beautiful fall landscaped, tons of fun, Halloween stuff, you know, jack-o-lanterns and Halloween costumes and all of that good stuff that really just kind of gets you in the mood for the season. And ultimately, while this time around, I didn’t find it as scary as I did the first time.

I still really enjoyed it. And it was a movie that I could sit and watch with my partner. Who’s really not a huge fan of horror and he enjoyed it too. Um, and I think that if you do have kids, um, this is something that they would like. And because of that, I’m going to try to watch my language during this podcast.

So if you do kids. Maybe they could listen to this with you. 

Todd: You mean, I’m not going to have to bleep out any F bombs this time? 

Craig: Really hard. I promise nothing, but I’ll, I’m going to try. So, uh, what about you Todd, any history with this? Had you seen it before?

Todd: I had seen it before. I don’t remember when it was probably around the time it came out.

I watched it and I actually, I get this movie confused a lot with ParaNorman. Another good one animated in a very different style, right? This one, sometimes I discover a nice little things as the credits are coming up that get me interested. And I didn’t realize this was an image, movers, production. Yeah.

And image movers was, um, it’s not around anymore, but it was a studio kind of a technology created by Robertson meccas and his team. It’s basically a motion capture technology. And at first, you know, when I heard about it, I thought, oh, you know, back in the day, I thought I’ll motion capture. We’re doing that now.

It’s no big deal. But what these. Because they had a whole large room basically, and they were cameras everywhere in the room. And of course the actors would wear these motion, cap, dots and things on their faces and whatnot. It was entirely just performing in this space and there’s nobody walking around with a camera, capturing things from different angles.

And so I actually watched a little documentary about, uh, image movers sometime ago, and I think it was around. Cause I really liked that Jim Carrey movie. Oh yeah, the Christmas one. Yeah, I think that’s the last one that they did before. They kind of stopped that closed that studio down, but it started out with another Christmas one, right?

The polar express, which creeped people out. Cause it, it went into that uncanny valley level of, of animation, which I didn’t mind so much. One has a little bit of that too. I thought it was still fun. Anyway, Jim Carey talked about how free. That method was because, you know, you could just perform, you could just act, you didn’t have to worry about hitting your mark or where the camera’s pointing and not to look at the camera.

You could just get back to acting school, you know, on the stage, uh, and just perform as an actor and not have to worry about all those technical things. And so once he described it and I kind of saw some video of this behind the scenes production, I thought, oh God, yeah, that would be quite nice. And then afterwards, You know, they have all the data of how everything was laid out and positioned in the movement and everything like that.

So then inside the computer, they can set up the camera anywhere they want. And then the animators can of course augment it with other stuff. And they certainly did that here. This doesn’t fall into that uncanny valley trap because although this was, I believe in production short, maybe at the same time that the polar express was being was being put to.

They took a different look for the animation. They made it a lot more cartoony. And I think that was a choice by the writer directors to make it more cartoony, because this is about an evil house and we’re not talking about a haunted house where evil things happen inside the house. The house itself is a monster, which is just a really cool and interesting concept.

I mean, you know, to some extent every haunted house movie, the house is quote unquote a monster, but not quite this. Right. And so that’s what I find really charming about this movie. And that’s probably why this works so much better in animation than it would any other way. Cause then they could really focus and the, the Mo the house could become a full fledged monster by the end of it and go places and do things and transform in any way that it wants without being hindered by technology.

And without feeling kind of lifted out of the. You know that it’s in, it’s a little more fantastical concept. So that just seems to naturally lend itself a little bit better to animation and especially for kids. Right? Because as you said, this is more family friendly. I mean, certainly we’ve done other PG rated family friendly horror movies, but like you said, this one is a little different from what we’ve done, because I’m not sure we’ve done an animated movie.

On this show, have 

Craig: we, oh man, I don’t know. You know what? I don’t think we have, we’ve talked about it. We did a whole month of family from friendly films. And at the time there were so many that we were interested in that we decided to break it up and we decided to do live action ones first. And then we said we would return to it at some point and do a month of animated ones because there are other great animated ones.

Like you mentioned. ParaNorman which is great. Coraline is another really good one. 

Todd: a Maki. I think it’s a Korean hand-drawn animation when somebody requested quite some time back, it’s been on our list for awhile. 

Craig: Yeah. And there are, you know, animated films that are not intended to be family-friendly ones that I’ve been interested in.

I know that there’s a. An animated SQL to train to Busan that I have really been interested in seeing. Right. Yeah. But I haven’t gotten around to watching it, but this movie, as I was watching it last. I was actually thinking, you know, as we are talking about it, I feel like if somebody hadn’t seen it and they didn’t know that it was an animated film, if we were just talking about the plot and the things that happen, it still feels very much like a horror film.

Yeah. Granted a horror film that focuses on kids, which I love. I love movies that have children protagonists, just because I think that the kid perspective is so unique and interesting and children are. At an age where, you know, it’s easy to believe things. And so the idea of a haunted house, which is what they think at first, they think it’s haunted at first.

But then, you know, the fact that the house itself is sentience and more of a monster, as it turns out, it’s possessed, it’s a possessed house, but you know, when you’re a kid, your expectations of reality. Still being shaped. And so you could almost, you could, you could believe in these types of things. And I love that perspective.

It’s just so innocent and fresh and it takes me back. You know, I remember being a kid and having an active animation, uh, imagination. Um, when I was growing up the house that I grew up in, uh, up until I was. Fifth grade, there was a house like this across the street, just catty corner. I lived on a corner and just catty corner.

There was a house like this, it was big and it was scary. And it was just a little bit rundown. It’s not like it was in complete disrepair or anything, but it was old and it had like an eight foot hedge all the way around it. And wow. And we, and we never saw. People going in or coming out. I don’t even know if people lived there.

They probably did. I’m sure. If I asked my parents, they could have told me who lived there, but it was more fun to just kind of think of it as this spooky creepy house. And that’s, that’s what’s going on. 

Todd: And what a cliche that is, right? Like how many movies, horror movies, or just otherwise they’re just these sort of kid adventure movies, either as a main plot or as sort of a side thread, have this idea that in this perfectly manicured nice suburban neighborhood.

There’s this one rundown. The place that is spooky and has a lot of, you know, lore surrounding it by the local children or whatever that does this actually happen, I guess. Yeah. You, well, you said that the neighborhood, you know, there always some places like that, so I guess it, it’s kind of a trope, right?

It’s great material for this sort of thing. Right? 

Craig: I think so too, like I said, I mean, it’s just. The very opening scene. Even the opening image is just the camera shooting through these beautiful Auburn leaves, uh, and showing us this beautiful fall landscape and this adorable little blonde girl missing her front teeth is flying down the sidewalk on her tricycle and she’s avoiding.

Trash bags and piles of leaves. And it’s just, it’s so stinking cute. And she’s singing and talking to herself. It’s so cute, but she ends up getting her tricycle stuck in this one particular lawn. And she’s the, the, the front wheel is somehow off the ground. So she’s just spinning and spinning the wheel.

Get it going and it’s in front of this old scary house and this scary old man comes out and we find out that his name is Mr. Nebar cracker and he’s freak. He’s scary looking. He looks like. Kind of like the crypt keeper or like Gollum or something like that. Now he’s voiced by Steve Buscemi. 

Todd: That’s so funny.

I never would have 

Craig: guessed. I wouldn’t either. He does a character voice. I never would have guessed it was him, but he’s good. And he’s very effective. The main characters, the little kids were child actors, and I don’t recognize them, but the, there are tons of adult actors in here. Big name people. And Steve Buscemi is a great actor.

Um, the reason that I brought up the looks of the old man is because he looks a little bit like Steve who’s 

Todd: shimmy. He does well funny teeth, right? Yeah. 50% of it right there. Steve 

Craig: Buscemi is not a handsome man, but he is a fine actor and I will forever and always have so much respect and admiration for Steve Buscemi because before he was an actor, he was in New York city firefighter and on nine 11.

He went to ground zero and work side by side with those firefighters, getting people out of there. And that’s, that’s, that’s amazing. That’s pretty awesome. Yeah. He, you know, he’s, he’s typical. He’s the typical creepy old guy, skinny gaunt, uh, wife beater shirt, and he grabs this little. And he screams at her.

It’s so over the top, but eventually contextually, you understand that he’s warning these children away for a very real reason, but he just seems so mean like she runs away and she turns back around and she’s like my tricycle and he picks it up and he breaks it. He breaks the, uh, Front wheel off. And then he takes it inside his house.

As he’s going back in his house, he looks back over his shoulder and we get a different perspective, seeing him through a camera lens and, um, a camera clicks and takes a picture of him. And it turns out that the kid across the. His name is DJ. And he’s been watching this guy across the street, taking toys from kids and yelling at the kids.

And he’s kind of been chronicling this, he’s got all these pictures and stuff. He’s a scrawny kid. There’s a lot of, uh, scrawny, chubby duo, um, in this story, but his friend is this chubby kid named chowder. Who’s super funny. And it’s the day before Halloween. DJ is starting to go through puberty and thinks that he may be getting too old to trick or treat which totally bummed.

His friend and DJ’s parents leave right at the very beginning of the movie. I don’t, did they even say where they were going? Like, 

Todd: oh gosh, I don’t remember. I think they did, but I don’t remember where it was. Yeah. They leave right at the 

Craig: beginning and then they’re gone for the whole rest of the time, but his, his parents, uh, are voiced by Catherine O’Hara and the late.

Fred Willard. Who’s just a comedic genius. And who only passed away, I think within the last year. And they’re in it. So, so little, but I love both. I am madly in love with both of them as, uh, actors. They’re they’re fantastic. 

Todd: Uh, it’s weird. And this has always struck me as strange is that these movies, especially when we started to see a lot more animated movies and I think it was Shrek, or maybe it was one of the earlier Disney.

I don’t remember where they they’re taking famous people who are voicing, um, characters, but otherwise, like the characters don’t look like the famous people. And even when people say, Hey, that’s that guy? You don’t know, like you can’t even tell because for look, for example, Steve was, Shamie’s doing another voice, right?

Like I’ve always wondered what is the point, except that you think that somehow people are going to be attracted to this movie because it has these famous names attached to it. When at the end of the day, it didn’t matter if this guy was nobody, nobody, son, you know? Uh, and so I find it weird. I found the casting choice of this movie.

Weird because you got. Actors that like you, and I wouldn’t know. I don’t think your average person, I think actually the two of the kid actors, the two boys were like Nicola. Actors, but hardly like drawing star power. And then you have these major stars, like you just rattled off and who are playing these small parts and you don’t even know it’s them and they’re not their characters aren’t modeled after them.

It’s so strange. Right? I just 

Craig: don’t get it. Well, I mean, there are great people in this, like Maggie Jilin hall voices, the babysitter, but she too kind of does a character voice. I don’t think that I would have recognized 

Todd: Turner is in this. 

Craig: Yeah, who is she? I don’t even 

Todd: remember. Goodness, like, I mean, romancing the stone and 

Craig: uh, oh no, no.

I know who she is. Oh, she’s the wife. That’s right. Crazy. Right. Well, now we’re getting into the spoiler stuff. Oh gosh. She’s huge. Um, Jason Lee, uh, It plays a teenage boyfriend, like you said, Kevin James is a police officer alongside his partner. Nick cannon, John heater has a tiny cameo role. He’s one of the few whose characters kind of look like they modeled the character.

Look after him. They just made him chubby. But yeah, all these famous people. It’s interesting because animated movies did not star famous. For the, for the longest time, it was a Latin that Robin Williams, Robin Williams broke that mold. He broke that mold. He was really the first big name actor to take an animated role.

Um, and after that, then. These roles became desirable. I mean, because he was so celebrated and as, as he should’ve been, he was fantastic, but then big famous people started, uh, taking these roles. But only after that, like I know that when Disney. Not himself, but when the production company was writing the little mermaid, they wrote Ursula as a Bea Arthur type.

That was her character description. And once they had it going and they were ready to get, uh, the voice actors to do it, they approached me Arthur and asked her to do it. And she, it was a from no, because serious actors didn’t do that kind of thing. Oh, Interesting. So everything, everything changed, uh, with a Latin and, and, you know, I that’s great.

I guess I, I suppose if you’re on the other side of the argument and you want to give other people opportunities, you know, there’s that argument too. But I do like kind of being able to pick these people out and, and especially the people in this movie are people that are. Many of them, people that I’m big fans of.

So it’s, it’s fun to see them 

Todd: well, real quick. Well, I mean, we’re going to get into the plot. I mean, while we’re talking about the creators of the movie, the director of the film is guilty. Uh, and he wrote a Ghostbusters afterlife. That’s going to be coming out here any minute now, or, yeah. And apparently directed the remake of the Poltergeist, which, uh, in 2015, I’d never saw that.

So I don’t know if that’s any good, but then Dan Harmon, one of the two co-writers of the movie created. Community and Rick and Morty, which are two big, big things, you know, since then, of course, I’m not at the time that this came out at the time this came out, this was one of his, uh, he’d been writing for TV and had a few other little projects, but this was one of his very first screenplays and movies that he, uh, that he wrote 

Craig: well, and there’s, there’s a lot of hype for Ghostbusters after life, and I’m really looking forward to it.

And the people who are. The people who are involved, people like I’m Sigourney Weaver, and a couple of the others have spoken and said, you’re going to be surprised. It’s really good. It’s, it’s very much in keeping with the first movie I’ve seen some of the trailers and it looks like they’re really doing throwbacks to the first movie.

Like I I’m, I’m pretty darn sure that goes or is going to be, if not the main villain, one of the main villains. The demon dogs from the first one are back and the stay Puft, you know, thing, is there, can we 

Todd: get Rick Miranda’s back? That’s the key. If 

Craig: I’m out of retirement, I don’t think they did, but most everybody else who’s still with us, um, is involved.

But on the other hand, I did see the Poulter guy stream make, and it was terrible.

Todd: One of those movies, it’s hard to recapture the original 

Craig: magic. Right? Well, that’s the thing. I, yeah, I, I have to be fair and that the original we’ve not done it. And I can’t believe that we haven’t because it is favorite. Literally one of my favorite movies of all time, I absolutely loved that movie 

Todd: deeply impacted me as a child, my God, 

Craig: to me too.

And we did part two and I liked part two part three. Most people. I think is absolute garbage. I loved it when I was kid, whatever. But now back to the movie that we’re talking about. Yeah. So it’s the day before Halloween and chowder comes over and he’s got this new base baseball, basketball that, um, you know, they shoot some hoops with or whatever, but, uh, eventually.

Chatter tries to make some shot and it rebounds right into his face and bounces off his face and goes over into never cracker his lawn. And at first they’re basically like, oh, well it’s gone. Yeah. Something goes on, never crackers law. And that’s it bye-bye but shouters like, I paid $28 for that ball and I really want it.

And I, I, I think he cries, which is actually kind of cute because that would have been me when I was a kid. I would’ve cried, but the. They don’t see anything, never cracker doesn’t come out to collect it or whatever. So they think that he might be asleep or something. So DJ goes out to get it, but I’m never, cracker does come out and he grabs DJ and picks him up and holds him up over his head and said, Yells.

I mean, he yells everything. This place is not a playground for children. Why can’t you respect that? Why can’t you just stay away from her? And then he freezes and it’s a little confusing because it kind of seems like maybe he has a heart attack because he falls over and his seemingly unconscious. And the ambulance comes and takes them away.

And the boys are convinced that he’s dead. DJ thinks he killed him. Yeah. I thought he was 

Todd: dead. I mean, the way they haul him out on a gurney, you know, with a sheet draped over it and everything. I thought, man, this is kind of dark for this, for this movie. And then even nice touch as the gurney is going across the lawn.

It gets stuck because some pieces of grass have. Have wrapped themselves around one of the wheels. Like it’s true. Like it’s trying to grab it and pull it back. These little touches early in the movie where you see the house has a little bit of a sentience about 

Craig: it. Yeah. The movie does not hide that from you.

Like, you know, that there’s something going on right away. And as soon as he falls and as he’s being taken away, you can tell that something awakens in the house and the house itself looks. Like a monster, like it only has two windows where eyes would be, and then the front door looks like where the mouth would be.

And as they’re taking, never crack her away, you get the perspective through one of the windows and you see a tiny little crack, you know, make its way up. So you know, that there’s something going right. And DJ finds a key on the lawn. I guess it must have fallen out of never crackers pants or something.

And then the babysitter shows up and she’s very stereotypical, like not goth, but kind of alternative. Doesn’t get. Care. 

Todd: Well, you’re really restricting yourself. I am so proud of you actually. It’s funny because this would be the, the movie clearly doesn’t take place in modern day. I was trying to figure out what we were watching it.

As soon as the landline stuff started popping up, I was trying to figure. What year, what era that might be set 

Craig: in, she pops in a cassette in the stereo. 

Todd: Yeah. So, I mean, she probably wouldn’t be goth at this point, but more like a, just like into heavy metal or, or, uh, or the hair bands, which that was me. I didn’t dress like it, but I was so into that music and I MTB, it says 1983, somewhere else.

It said based on some of this stuff, 19 86, 19 87, I think it’s later eighties for sure. 

Craig: Yeah. But. It was a great guy. I mean, you know, that was the, that was our childhood. We could, 

Todd: we could go off the rails again. If we started talking 

Craig: about how much we love these. Oh, I know. I mean, we would have been. These kids age, maybe a tiny little bit younger, but yeah, I mean, this was our childhood and it feels so familiar.

Todd: Like you said earlier to this, the movie has a bit of the feel of those child adventure movies, like Goonies or whatever adventures in babysitting that we had in the eighties as well. So it stylistically, it’s also kind of a throwback to that as well, you know? 

Craig: Oh, right. And, and it plays right to us, but I think.

That kids can still relate. Like kids, aren’t going to be thinking kids. Aren’t going to be thinking, what era does this take place? You know, like, they’re just, they’re just going to go with it. But for us, it’s nostalgic 

Todd: and they might be like, and they pull out their cell phones, light things up a little bit, or call the mom.

Craig: So the babysitter shows up, DJ goes to bed and there’s kind of a spooky scene where he lays down in his bed and the shadow of the house stretches out from his window and. And turns into a giant arm that like lunges at him, but then he wakes up, like it was a nightmare, but immediately after that, he gets a strange call and he hangs up on it, but the phone immediately rings again.

And so he picks it up and he just hears these weird noises. So again, big throwback to the eighties, he hangs up and hit star 69

is like, let’s see how you like it. And the phone rings and rings, but nobody picks it up. But then. He kind of hears something and he opens up his window and he realizes the phone is ringing and never crackers house. So he thinks that somebody is calling from never crackers house, but he believes never cracker is dead.

So all of this is very spooky to him. A guy named bones shows up, this is. Voiced by Jason Lee and he’s Zs boyfriend or boyfriend interest. And he’s a douche and Nope, he’s, he’s a not very nice.

And there’s a, you know, there’s a scene where he kind of picks on DJ or whatever, but DJ then overhears the two of them talking downstairs when I was 10 years old, I had a. Awesome guide. I can fly it so high. You couldn’t see it. One day it crashed down. I followed the string and it ended right over there across the street, right at the edge of his lawn.

Todd: He take your kite. 

Craig: Yeah. He takes whatever lands on his lawn. That’s not the point. The point is, is that I saw him talking to his house kiss. 

Todd: I’m trying to figure out how that 

Craig: works, right? Yeah. I don’t know. And he could be totally making it up cause like he’s going in for a kiss. Like it could just be, you know, flirty or.

Eh, but then he’s like, and you know what he did to his wife. Right. And Z’s like, no, and he’s like, he ate her and I don’t know, he does something that irritates her. And so she throws him out of the house and, and he goes across the lawn. I guess we’re supposed to think that he’s a little drunk. He’s drinking a beer.

And he throws the beer bottle on the lawn and kind of taunts the house. Cause he doesn’t think anybody’s there. But then the door opens and in this lurid red light, his kite is floating right in the front door and. Apparently I didn’t pick up on them, but I read about them. Apparently there are several kind of throwbacks to Stephen King.

Um, and this wasn’t one of the ones that was listed, but this was so it. Oh 

Todd: my gosh. It was so obviously it, I couldn’t believe that wasn’t listed in the trivia. Maybe, maybe we’re going to have to make our mark on the CMDB trivia page after, 

Craig: but yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s just like, you know, Pennywise luring Georgie with the boat or Loring any of these kids with images of what they 

Todd: want to see.

Right? The balloon, this is a red kite floating. I mean, it’s just the same. It’s cute. And it’s spooky. It’s actually pretty 

Craig: spooky. It is. Um, and he gets lured in and presumably eaten by the 

Todd: house. Well, isn’t this at the point where the, I that’s pretty early on in any case, I think it’s now where the house actually does.

Metamorphosize a little bit, right. Yeah, 

Craig: all that happened. Well, DJ, DJ, see some, no DJ, just, I don’t remember if he sees the boyfriend. I don’t think he sees the boyfriend get eaten, but he knows something’s going on. So he calls chatter and they meet at this construction site for no apparent reason other than we need to know that it’s there so they can return to it later.

And he says, the house is haunted. I’m sure of it. It did something to the boyfriend helped me. And so they go back and the is like, well, I’ll, ding-dong ditch it to prove to you that it’s. Haunted and he does. And that’s when it does just straight up turn into a huge monster. Like it’s just a head, you know, it’s a huge, scary head with this long, like hallway carpet, tongue that can roll out and like grab people.

And they just barely escape, but it’s frightening. Like I wasn’t scared, but the imagery is really quite frightening in a very good way. Like, I really liked it. I thought that it was very spooky appropriate for kids, but yeah, I don’t know. I just really like. I don’t have anything bad to say about 

Todd: it. It does make me wonder because there is a tendency to soften things up a little bit nowadays, and to throw in a lot of funny, ironic humor.

And, and this, this movie has got quite a bit of humor in it, but it’s, it’s a different tone still. I, I wonder if this were made like say in 2021, if, if the house itself wouldn’t have been a little joke, Or a little cartoonish or a little silly, you know what I mean at times at times, but no, it’s pretty terrifying throughout.

And I think that works in this movie’s favor, really, you know, that the house itself is not, it’s dead serious. Th that’s played for seriousness, you know, the spookiness of this house and the, the monster that. And the threat and the danger. Yeah. It’s going to eat them. All 

Craig: right. And it really does, you know, it’s, it’s a legit danger at one point, they watch it eat a dog.

I, I think that’s later, I guess, but these, these people, you presume these people are gone owners, the people that it eats and it does, and it eats the boyfriend, it eats a dog. One of my favorite parts of this. Is the next morning. There’s a knock at the door, a persistent. Or, or doorbell ringing or something.

And it’s this cute pig tailed red head girl. And she’s my absolute favorite character, because first of all, she’s genius. She’s going door to door with this wagon full of Halloween candy on Halloween morning, and she’s selling Halloween candy. To people to give out for trick or treaters, and she’s got a whole spiel about it.

And I’m like, this girl is going to grow up and conquer the world. 

Todd: And I, I was thinking at the time, what a brilliant idea, why has nobody really done that? Right? Like there’s so many people selling crappy candy bars and stuff, door to door on random times, or you’ve got the girl scout cookies, but this Halloween came.

Door to door to how she would make bank. 

Craig: If a kid, if a kid showed up at my door on Halloween morning, of course I wouldn’t have bought any candy already. Cause I put everything off to the last minute and you know, she she’s right there. You know, like, uh, this girl would make bank, but of course she, um, meets up with the, a babysitter and she does her whole spiel.

And eventually the babysitter’s like, yeah, I don’t live here babysitter. Okay, let’s cut the crap. Maybe the parents you work for left you $40 in emergency money. Maybe they left me 30. Maybe you give me 20. I write a receipt for 30 and you pocket 10, maybe. And I want two extra bags of peanut clusters, one bag, and I’ll toss in a liquor.

Todd: She is so smart,

Craig: but then, so she leaves and the boys have been up all night just watching the house and peeing and mountain Dew bottles by.

So gross, so gross, but totally something that me and my friends would have done, like so gross, but we totally would’ve done it. Like we can’t leave that. We can’t leave the room. So they’re there watching out the window and they see the little. Headed towards the monster house. And like Mr. Never cracker has signs up.

Like BeAware go away. And like, the lawn is sucking the signs down, so she’s not for warrant and they run out, um, and she’s walking up the walkway and they’re yelling for her, but then the house, the house almost eats her. Like it’s a great scene. Like it shoots up the planet. Like the submit panels of the sidewalk, the walkway, like she trips into her wagon.

And so her it’s just maneuvering her wagon down these panels towards its mouth, the front door. And at the very last minute they save her, but it’s a great, super exciting scene. And then she. Basically joins their boys’ club and is in it with them from then on. 

Todd: So classic. Right. You got the boys club gets a girl, gets a smart girl.

Craig: I’m a smart girl, pretty girl. And of course they’re both just in love with her and I don’t blame. I would have been too she’s she’s smart. She’s pretty, she’s tough. Like she’s great. That’s when they see the dog get grabbed. So she calls the police and they head over to the house and chowder gets tempted by his basketball, but the other to keep him from falling for it.

And then the stupid police are fried. It’s hard. I’m really used, like, even in my notes, there’s bad words. I’m trying really hard. This is. Police arrive. Yeah. I mean, they’re dumb and Kevin, James, I’m really not a big Kevin James fan. I know a lot. Yeah. I know there are a lot of Kevin James fans is, you know, he is in the Adam Sandler school and they work together a lot and yeah.

But, you know what, just really silly 

Todd: a charm about him, that Adam Sandler, you know, Adam, Sandler’s kind of smarmy and cocky and Kevin, James just has kind of a charming, like oafish, but heart of gold, I have to admit, like, what was it, Paul Blart mall cop. That was a movie I watched by accident and I was not expecting to enjoy it.

And I, I kinda liked it. 

Craig: I will see now I feel like I should give it a chance because it looked so stupid. 

Todd: It is stupid. It’s one of those really stupid movies, but there’s something about it that he just kind of elevates it a little bit in. Just kind of awe this guy, this charming guy, you know, 

Craig: kind of thing.

Well, if it ever happens to be on, I’ll give it a 

Todd: chance. I’m not saying, I’m not saying don’t get me wrong. I don’t want letters afterwards. Like Todd from two guys in a chainsaw, I said, everybody run out and see Paul Blart mall cop as soon as, 

Craig: uh, but you know, he’s the typical doofy overweight cop doesn’t take anything seriously.

Makes stupid cop donut jokes and stuff. His partner is a black officer. Again, one thin one chubby, and the partner cop is played by Nick cannon, who I don’t have anything against, but like, I’m not a huge fan of his, either a, he plays this very silly, but you know, that’s, it’s, it’s, it’s written that way.

That’s supposed to be. 

Todd: It’s kind of weak though. Uh, that, that character was weak. Ah, 

Craig: it’s a, it’s a little stereotypical 

Todd: that too. It bothered me a little bit. And as being the only person of color in the movie, you know, it was also a little cringey I thought, but. 

Craig: Yeah, there reminded me of someone, but I, I can’t think of it anyway.

It doesn’t matter whatever they show. Of course they don’t believe DJ tries to trigger the house, but it doesn’t fall for it. And so there are no help. So they decide to go to an expert, chowder knows of this like expert. Cause I guess he’s a video game expert. So that makes him an expert on monsters or something.

And then. And he’s only in the skull and bones. Yeah. Which I guess there was originally a subplot where those two were in a band and they, I don’t know, had some falling out or something, but the subplot kind of got cut, but this is John heater and he sounds like John heater and his face looks like John heater.

And I think John, John heater, I’ve not, I’ve never seen it in anything where he displayed any real type of range. The characters that he plays are hilarious. Like he’s just really funny. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do here, but he says that he has heard of. Domus Meg tip plus, which I have no idea if this is any kind of real thing, or if he’s just making up words, but it’s when a building is possessed by a human soul and it turns out that he’s right.

And he says, in these instances, you got to strike at the heart. And so they’re like, well, what’s the heart of a house. And they’re like, well, ever since never cracker. Was gone. There’s been smoke coming out of the chimney. So maybe the heart is, uh, the furnace. So they go back home and make some home alone plans.

You know, these, these great, you know, like drawn out in marker plans for their, how they’re going to take it down. And part of the plan is, I guess, chowders dad is a pharmacist. And so he has to go to the pharmacy and steal a bunch of cold medicine. 

Todd: Hmm. 

Craig: Probably. I hope kids don’t think that’s something that’s okay.

Like really probably getting some big trouble for that. And like, at first he’s like, no, I don’t want to do it. I’m not going to do it. And then Jenny’s like, well, I really think you should. And he’s like, yeah, I I’m going to, I definitely. 

Todd: I mean, he’s either going to put a house to sleep or make meth. We’ll see which countries living in.

Right. Maybe a little bit, 

Craig: obviously in the 1980s, because the cold medication wasn’t laws 

Todd: and behind the counter,

that dates and more than anything else. Good times. Good times. The days we could just buy cold medicine, whatever we wanted right off the shelf. Oh 

Craig: gosh. Now, like, if you really need it, like you have to, huh? 

Todd: I just get your cold is over by the time you to medicine 

Craig: a little bit in your hometown, but then you have to drive a half an hour away to get more.

If you need it. They’re watching you 

Todd: and you end up on a list somewhere. You know what happens if you buy that second bottle, it’s like a large sound at the FBI office or something. I wouldn’t even risk. It don’t 

even 

Craig: buy. It’s a real issue. I have like people seriously, like people, I have people in my life who talk about it.

Like I’m out of my NyQuil, where can I go 

Todd: for like drugs? I got a Nicole Guy. 

Craig: Yeah. So he does it, he, uh, he steals it and they, they rig up this dummy. First of all, they, they, they crossed the street in disguise and trash cans, which I thought was hilarious. And I know we’ve seen it in a movie before, but I can’t remember what.

Maybe is it E T or 

Todd: I think it was 

Craig: they’re in a trash cans and like scooting across the street. Super cute. And then they have this dummy in a wagon or no, no, it’s they, they make up a vacuum clean. Like a self-propelled vacuum cleaner and they put a mask on it and like dirt dress it up. And it’s super cute.

Jenny rings the doorbell with a Slingshot. Like we got some, uh, Beverly Marsh action going on here. And they send the dummy up and the house starts to wake up, like it’s going to eat the dummy, but then the cops show up because they think that these kids are, you know, playing pranks or something. And they, the cops discover the cough syrup.

So they’re going to take the kids to jail.

So they locked them in the back of the cop 

Todd: car suddenly is the nineties. Oh, 

Craig: right. And so they locked the kids in the backseat of the cop car. Chorus. We all know mean they’re stuck there. They can’t get out, but the cops here, something in the house. And so they go up and they are attacked, like a tree grabs, one of them and is throwing it around and.

It ends up eating both of the cops and then it attacks the gob car and like picks up the cop car and it’s like pulling it towards its mouth and they get pulled inside and the cop car gets like cut in half when the, the houses eating people, the floorboards of the foyer open up like this big gullet.

And, um, they almost get pulled into the gullet, but at the very last second, they managed to escape, but they are locked in the house. The house repairs itself and the goal it closes. And so the kids think that the house must think. That it ate them and it must be sleeping now. So they need to find the heart of the house.

And so they look around and they find all these explosives around the house, which seems random. There’s a reason for it. And they see pictures of never cracker and his wife and never cracker is this very scrawny guy. And his wife is morbidly obese. Like. 

Todd: She’s literally a circus freak. I don’t like, I don’t like, 

Craig: yeah, I don’t like talking about people’s, you know, size weight.

Cause I I’m not one to talk, but she’s intentionally morbidly obese. And they find out, uh, you know, they, they just get a little history from looking at pictures and stuff and they see that never cracker was in the service. I don’t know if it was army or what, but whatever he was in, he was on the demolition squad and the house wakes up and like coughs and spit something out and they see this chandelier type thing hanging down the girl Jenny’s like, oh, it must be.

Something must have tickled it’s uvula that’s it’s feel and chakras like, oh, so it’s a girl,

which is so funny. Kids would never get it. No, I love that. I love in children’s movies. When they throw jokes to the adults, that would go completely over the kids’ heads. And even if the kids did get it, like there’s nothing dirty about that. You know, like it’s just about girl parts, whatever, but they ended up falling, I guess, through a hole or the gullet or something.

And they find all the toys that have been stolen and they find this cage and it’s, it’s labeled constant. The giant tests and it’s locked, but DJ, the key that he found opens it. And when they open it up, there’s a, her dead body and Cayston cement like that’s dark for 

Todd: movie. Haley is, I mean, and then, then you get the backstory of, uh, of that.

Craig: And, and the backstory well, and, and stuff like there’s other action that goes in here. They end up the house, knows they’re in there and they’re threatened, but Jenny like jumps up and swings on the gullet. So it chokes and they get spit out. Uh, and then an ambulance. Like, as they’re running across the street, they never look both ways.

They’re running across street. DJ gets hit by an ambulance, but he’s okay. But never cracker his back. He had just broken his arm. I don’t know if he had passed out or what, but he just has a broken. He yells at them. Don’t, you know what, this day is, I’m running out of time, honey, I’m home. And then he says, the house is her.

And that’s when we get the backstory. And frankly like this movie is for kids. And I think that kids can totally appreciate it and be fine with it. But this backstory is really. Heartbreaking. Yeah, really sad. It makes me sad. Just even talking about 

Todd: it. I mean, basically he, he meets her as a young man.

She’s in a circus freak show. She’s not happy about it. She’s not just a overweight. She was like a giant Tess. Apparently she’s super tall. And of course he’s really, really small and thin. And so it’s kinda cute. Um, and so, you know, he falls in love with. And, uh, rescues her from the circus and they get married.

Craig: He says, I’ll take you away from all this. Do you want that? Not only is she a circus performer, but she’s like a kid she’s caged, like literally she lives in this cage. Um, and it seems like. I don’t know. He like when he talks to her, it’s almost like nobody ever talks to her. Like she almost doesn’t even know how to talk.

And people are just horrible to her, which I’m sure was real, you know, back in those days of, of freak shows, these people were horribly abused. Um, one of these days we really should do freaks. I’ve never seen it and I am a. I’m really, really intrigued. 

Todd: It’s it’s a good one. I like it for a classic horror movie, especially it’s one of the more disturbing ones.

Craig: Yeah. But, you know, I just, I feel, uh, he seems to love her and, and he takes her away and he, he starts building her this house. That’s. You know their house and, um, it it’s no it’s in the middle of nowhere, you know, apparently they’re the first house in the development, but she’s still being abused. Like kids are throwing rocks at her and stuff.

And when she’s abused, she gets super angry, which is sad, but understandable. And she loses control and she screams it’s my house. And that just breaks my heart. Like your house, if nowhere else should be. Your sanctuary and she’s not even safe there. And before the house is even built, as she’s raving against these kids who are abusing her, she falls into the construction and dies.

And the cement falls on top of her. And apparently that’s just where she stayed. And, um, he finished the house, but he says she died. But she didn’t leave. Yep. And, um, he explains how he has to take all of these precautions on Halloween, because if kids, you know, come to the door or play pranks or whatever, she gets angry and kills them.

And that’s when it turns into, you know, that’s it. Then the enact three it’s very action. The house completely, you know, completely transformed it up roots itself. It chases that. To this quarry strach slash construction site that we had seen before. And there’s a lot of action that goes on there. The house is trying to get the kids and kill the kids in.

There are a lot of very close moments and the kids, you know, a couple of them, Jenny and a DJ fall into the quarry and chowder is, is in like a. Crane trying to fight her, get her to fall into the quarry or something. And there’s a sweet moment where the house is trying to attack the kids and never cracker throws a brick at her.

And she turns around and starts coming towards him. But right when she gets to him, she stops and they just look at each other. And they love each other. Like it’s so sad. And he says to her, 

Todd: oh, 

Craig: nice, sweet. You’ve been a bad girl. Haven’t you heard people? Oh, we’ve always known this day would come.

Nah, I have to make things right.

I have to make things

I’ve always done. What’s best for you. Haven’t I ever nae girl. Dynamite, but the house grabs him, but shouter kind of saves him with, uh, the bulldozer, but DJ, I don’t know. They have to like, they swing on a cord or something and yeah, the house falls into the pit and is totally broken, but then it rebuilds itself and DJ has to throw the dynamite and he throws it and it goes in the chimney and the house.

And everybody is okay. And never cracker is sad. But relieved. And the last scene is there’s a long line of people 

Todd: at the hole 

Craig: walking up to the hole where the kids and never cracker are returning. The things that had been stolen from the kids off of their Alon and the cute tricycle girl comes and never crack her, gives her, her tricycle back.

And the kids are all friends, you know, Jenny and the boys, you know, are they’ve bonded and their friends. Never cracker is kind of, he’s kind of nice, but the last thing he says to them is, and stay off my 

Todd: law,

Craig: which was like with a smile, like it’s like a smirk, like it’s cute. It’s funny. And then the credits. And in the credits, we see the hole where it never crackers house was. And all of the people that had been eaten throughout the movie bones and the dog and the cops crawl out and are like confused. And I guess that they, the studio kind of forced them to do that.

Like otherwise 

Todd: the only way to get a PG 

Craig: rating. Right? Yeah. It would have been too dark if they. Actually dead and it doesn’t bother me. It’s a kid’s movie. That’s fine. You know, let them be okay. That’s fine. 

Todd: It did feel, I will say though, that the ending felt awfully long. Like once the main action is over, you know, pretty much the movie needs to wrap up, you know, the movie’s done.

And I felt like all this stuff at the end was. Kind of dragging even before they started climbing out of the hole. And I was kinda thinking, oh God, when is this movie going to end that there might be some other twist or something? And no, it’s just them kinda getting out. And XE is apparently now dating skull, which bones finds out.

I at dog pisses on a jack-o-lantern don’t put it out. It’s so, so much like, come on and already that’s all I felt at the end. 

Craig: I don’t know. I actually thought, yeah, I thought that it was very cute and sweet and I liked that. I am such a sucker though, for that type of thing. I love sweet, cute stuff. I love kids, movies, even not scary ones like animated movies, kids, movies.

I love them. Eat them up at our house. It’s certainly not the only thing we watch or even something that we watch regularly, but we love them light and they, like, they always make me cry. Like those despicable me movies, like especially the first one, like at the end, I’m like weaving 

Todd: every Pixar movie ever for cars too.

Yeah. The same way. 

Craig: Love him. Love this movie. If I had kids, I would totally show it to. Um, I think it’s it’s it’s so it’s such a great Halloween movie, uh, just for this time of year, you know, I decided this year that I was going to do the novel, something wicked this way comes with my, my students. And, uh, I hadn’t read it in years.

And picking it up and just reading the first few pages. The first few pages are all about the magical month of October. And, uh, 

Todd: he’s a wizard at the window 

Craig: and this movie gave me those. Feelings. It’s just, I love this time of year. I love the fall. I just wish it could be fall all year long. I love Halloween and this just, it fits perfectly for that.

And it’s fun. I I’m glad I chose it. I know that it’s an unorthodox. For us, but I don’t care. It’s our podcast and we’ll do we watch

Todd: darn it, darn it to happen. We will do whatever we want with our parents’ approval. Of course. 

Craig: All right. Anyway, thank you for listening. We, I hope I didn’t disappoint you with a non traditional horror movie, but I really do have a feeling that most of our listeners and fellow for fans do appreciate this kind of stuff.

I not, all of you. I’m sure. Um, I’m sure many of you do. And if you do let us know, let us know if there are other things like this that you’d like us to take a look at, or you know, anything at all, any requests that you have. Uh, we always put those on our list and try to get around to them as soon as we can.

If you liked this episode as always. Um, please feel free to share it with friends. Of course, you can find us anywhere. You can find your favorite podcasts, or you can just Google two guys in a chain saw podcast and you’ll find our Facebook page, our Twitter, which right from the first look, Todd, I hope that you’re, I hope that you’re managing the Twitter cause I’ve never even looked at it, uh, 

Todd: every now and then I get a notification that somebody responded to.

It’s not our most active means of communication so far. 

Craig: No, but people do private message us on Facebook and we always respond because we really, really do enjoy engaging with you. It’s one of the most fun elements of doing this show and we should be back, I think with one more horror Halloween movie.

But until next time, I’m Craig, and I’m Todd, with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Our search for the perfect seasonal film led us to the Halloween-Party-In-A-Box that is 1981’a The Monster Club. Vincent Price, John Carrradine and Donald Pleasance round out half of what was supposed to be an assemblage of the 6 gentlemen of classic horror.

Still, we get an anthology of three spooky tales spooky, sad, and funny, surrounded by a quirky wraparound story and three surprisingly catchy interstitial rock tunes. And if you REALLY want the full Halloween experience, check below for Elvira’s commentary – not once, but twice.

The Monster Club (1981)

Episode 272 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, here we are, week two in our October Halloween themed month, which we always do every year. And when we do these movies, we look for movies that are. Oftentimes set in Halloween time, or at least have a Halloween spirit about them.

Something that just seems more appropriate for Halloween. And I think it was with that spirit that I selected this week’s movie. And I don’t even remember how I found it. It wasn’t on any of our lists and I’m not even sure I knew about it beforehand, but Craig had written me a message this week saying that Elvira was.

Talking about possibly hanging up her dress. And also that she had just released a memoir. And so I was like, oh my gosh. So I was going online. I was going down all these Alvira rabbit holes. And I think it was during that process that I stumbled upon some videos of her hosting and lists of what she was hosting.

And I came across this title, The Monster Club. Which starred Vincent Price. And I was like, okay, cool. Vincent Price, John Carradine. Awesome. It’s a horror anthology. Awesome. It’s the monster club and it has this cool poster of all these kind of old horror movie monsters on it. Fantastic. And Elvira has hosted it twice.

She hosted it once on her TV series and again for thriller video. And I thought, oh my gosh, this looks to be the. Halloween type movie, something that maybe you’d throw on during a Halloween party, something that might even not be too gory, might even be something the family or the kids could watch. And so I just said, Craig let’s do this.

And I also sent him links to Elvira’s, uh, segments of hosting it and everything like that. I thought I would just sit down and watch. As Elvira’s hosting it and just kind of relive what I would imagine to be like the ultimate Halloween experience. So this is 1981’s, The Monster Club, directed by Roy Ward baker, starring Vincent Price.

And John Carradine. Have you ever heard of this one before Craig? 

Craig: Um, the only reason that I had heard of it is because scrolling through shutter, I had seen the box art, I guess, for lack of a better word. And it looked interesting, but not necessarily like something that I would be immediately drawn to.

I mean, it’s, it’s older. I don’t seek out older movies usually even though. Uh, I’m a big fan of, um, Vincent Price, especially, I just don’t tend to seek those movies out. So I was actually kind of excited when, uh, you suggested it and I’ve been, you know, I’m obsessed with, with Cassandra Peterson Elvira way.

And you know, with her name being in the news lately, I’ve been excited about her too. I ended up not watching her hosting gig because. The one that was easy for me to access was on YouTube. And the quality was really low. I watched her introduction to it and to say it’s typical of what she does is not an insult in any way.

Um, in fact, it’s a compliment. I love her as a host of these types of movies. She’s hilarious and sexy. Wonderful. And I just love everything about her. Um, and I know that she intentionally hosts bad movies, but I also know that she loves. These types of movies that she hosts. And so for her stamp to be on, it was kind of another feather in its cap for me.

So I was looking forward to it. Um, really not knowing anything about it. You had told me, cause you were so excited. You were like, dude, I found the perfect movie. It’s got bits of price, John Carradine and Elvira hosts it. And it’s an anthology and it’s everything perfect for Halloween. And I was like,

so I, I didn’t know it was an anthology movie either and we, we both love anthologies. I love anthologies. Um, so I was, I was looking 

Todd: forward. Well, the movie is produced by Milton and key is the guy behind an Amicus productions. Uh, Amick has productions did settle into horror anthologies in the sixties and seventies, much like.

Well hammer didn’t do so many anthologies. They did some, but they mostly were known for their Gothic horror. Amycus did anthologies with a lot of the same cast and you can often confuse them with each other just because they have a similar style, similar cast, everything like that. But most of Amicus has anthologies were usually modern day.

Like they took place in the modern day, whereas hammered. Tend to stick strictly with period pieces, social sort of Gothic, classic whore. I love the Amicas horror movies, tales from the crypt. The original one is an Amicus production. I, for years thought it was a hammer production, the house that dripped blood.

So this isn’t actually an ambitious production. It’s just one of the producers of cuss who went off and did some other productions. And this movie didn’t actually get a theatrical release in the U S either. I know, which is weird, right. It was released in the UK. Uh, on a limited theatrical run, it wasn’t a very big success commercially or critically, which is a shame because they had high hopes for it.

You know, the director, Roy Ward baker, who is a classic director, he’s directed a lot of horror, but he’s also directed some classic films, like I think a night to remember, which has many people claim is one of the most definitive title. Movies, which was, I think, uh, from the fifties or forties even. And then the writer here, uh, are Chetwynd Hayes, uh, who was a famous British writer of scary stories and, and go stories.

And so this is actually adapted, uh, from his material. Um, in fact, he is a character. In the movie, he is played by John Carradine as an author. He wasn’t actually terribly thrilled with the movie either because he thought that, uh, it was a little too cheesy at times. And he didn’t like the changes to his material, which is fair enough.

The movie is clearly intentionally cheesy. It’s not taking itself seriously. It’s very mad cap, which I think is part of its charm. But apparently that, you know, didn’t resonate with the audience. So well, the producer wanted to have the six biggest horror names, um, that he could think of right there on the bill Vinson.

Uh, John Carradine, Clauskinski Christopher Lee, Peter Cushing. I was thinking of who declined it. Christopher Lee declined it just out of the name alone, I guess the title he didn’t like, but, uh, Vincent Price, John Carradine, and indeed Donald Pleasants are all three in this movie, as well as a bevy of more or less famous British actors and actresses in here.

Uh, who’ve been on television and various movies, including. One of my favorites, who I was really happy to see in there. 

Craig: Brett Eckland. I knew you were going to say that when right. Eckland, 

Todd: you know how much I love her from the Wicker 

Craig: man. I know I do. And I totally recognized her. And she was one of the people that I knew that I had seen in something else.

There are so many recognizable faces in this. Um, I feel like if you were a fan. Especially whore, uh, during this era, so many recognizable people and, and I recognized a lot of them and, and, and clicked on their IMDV profiles and saw that they had been in many things that I had heard of, but not necessarily that I had seen, but, uh, Britt Ekland.

Yes. She. The sexy innkeeper’s daughter in the Wicker, man, I don’t think I’ll ever forget her singing. She sang like a whole song. 

Todd: That’s right. And danced. 

Craig: She was young and beautiful then. And she’s absolutely stunning in this. Just a little bit older. When I say older, I don’t even necessarily mean middle age, but just a little bit older and Franklin.

Even more beautiful. Like she continued to age into her beauty and she plays a relatively small role, but I was captivated 

Todd: by, I wanted to see more of her wonder to sing again, but there are people in here. Stuart Whitman again, not, not it’s a face. You would know. Um, he seemed to always play Cowboys and sheriffs and things like that.

Definitely a leading man back in the fifties and sixties, and, uh, still pretty good looking, uh, here in 1981, he’s in the very last story. Richard Johnson, uh, who is plays a vampire father in this was in the, uh, the haunting from 1963, pretty notorious movie based on Shirley Jackson’s novel. The haunting of.

And Dr. Menard from zombie to which we watch the Lucille folchi zombie movie, which I have a soft spot in my heart for, but he actually didn’t only play horror. He played a ton of stuff, actually more like Shakespeare and other stuff than, than really whore. Um, so yeah, you just got, you got a smattering of names and people in here, just like you said.

So it’s just so surprising, uh, that it was only licensed for telecom. In the U S and I think that’s how all Vajra ended up picking it up. And then it ended up on home video through her thriller video. So that’s probably how most people in the us ever got to see this movie just paid the price 

Craig: of admission to the Munster club, the thriller video treat for this time round.

Yep. The monster club. They have a two drink minimum, but that ain’t the bad news. Bad news is that count. Dracula’s the bartender loving Mary’s anyone. It’s good. Starting a pair of McCobb doms finest, my old house, Mr. John Carradine and Vincent Vinnie, the P price. What is it? They say forewarned is forearmed.

I believe me, honey, most of the characters in this movie have at least 

Todd: forearms and going online. I’ve actually found that there are a lot of people who really have fond memories of this movie really enjoy it, but it is weird all over the place. It is just a campy and I say, Fond in a, in a nice way, but it’s just a campy mess, you know, it’s it’s Vincent Price and John Carradine with this goofy wraparound story involving this literal monster club.

Vincent Price is a vampire, apparently not a very dangerous vampire who’s stumbling around the streets and kind of on his last drop, I suppose. And he comes across John Carradine, who we, whose character we see right away is an author because he’s passing by a bookstore where his novels and his face is on display

Craig: two weeks to get her some money for food. Keep food down

to help you.

Todd: Bears his fangs and bites down on him. The next shot is of John Carradine. His character just sort of rubbing his neck. 

Craig: Yeah. No visible 

Todd: wound or anything sitting, having a cigarette. Yeah. It’s kind of silly. And Vincent Price is something I’m a little confused by, but he says I drank your blood, but I didn’t bite you so well, 

Craig: he’s I didn’t, I didn’t bite hard or I didn’t bite deep or something.

And that comes up again. There was a vampire segment in the movie too. Um, apparently the vampires can just, you know, have a little nip and you’ll be fine. They, they have to like really bite down to infect you. I guess Vincent Price of course is amazing. I mean, he’s just a horror icon and it doesn’t matter.

What movie he’s in and he’s been in some great movies and he’s been in some stinkers. We, you know, like this movie is corny and late in his career, he was taking sillier roles, I think, because that’s what he was being offered. Didn’t we do another. Movie where he, it was silly movie that he was in 

Todd: blood bath at the house of death.

Right. I love it. Yeah. I liked it too. He’s barely in it, 

Craig: but yeah, he was, and his role was really silly. This is the only time in his whole career that he’s ever played a vampire. I just random trivia. Vincent Price was a Missouri. And I live in Missouri. He was born in St. Louis, but for whatever reason, I’m not exactly sure why he came to my hometown.

Many times I live in a small college city. I think population like around 20,000, maybe even a little bit less, but Vincent Price, uh, for whatever reason, visited our city. Many times he visited, uh, For like our, our university’s homecoming and was in the parade. And our university has a Vincent Price scholarship, which is still going strong within the last five, 10 years.

The university had a celebration of him and they held a big dinner because I guess in his later years he wrote a cookbook. Did you go to that? 

Todd: I did go to that dinner. That was a lot of fun. 

Craig: I didn’t go 

Todd: his daughter. Was there something like that? 

Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. So there, so I, I don’t know. I mean, it’s not really like a familial connection or anything, but just the fact that he.

You know, had some sort of connection to my hometown in dears me even more to him. And he’s great. And, uh, this is a silly movie and he’s pretty silly in it. And I can only imagine that he and John Carradine probably felt filmed their roles in a couple of days, you know, they’re their, the wraparound story so important, but it all filmed basically in just a couple of locations, you know, that street that you already talked about and then the monster club.

Can you tell me more about John Carradine? Because I feel like I should know more about him, but I don’t like the only thing I know or I think I know is that he has a couple of famous sons too. Right? David 

Todd: and John Kennedy and junior. Right? Well, uh, David Carradine, right. Was ZOS and Kung Fu a lot of action movies.

I think he ended up in Quentin Tarantino. Kill bill 

Craig: may, 

Todd: especially in the eighties. I remember his son, John Carradine was in a lot of silly horror movies. Like, I’m pretty sure he was in a couple Jim white Norske pictures. You know what I mean? He was all over the B movie circuit, whatnot, but, but I’m all pretty well-respected.

I mean, he really came into his own, like in the third. You know, we’re talking classic old Hollywood. He did play like house of Frankenstein and house of Dracula on movies like captain kid, and return to the eight man. And he was on TV, like constantly on, on TV shows, ed Sullivan show and, and movies around the world in 80 days.

And, and kind of these kind of things like matinee theater and stuff like that. And just, uh, just constant. Constantly working actor extremely competent, good at what he did in a lot of roles. And then it seems like around the sixties or so. Um, he was in a lot of TV series, but then he was also doing like horror films, uh, some good, some bad, most of them kind of silly the vampires blood of Dracula’s castle, you know, stuff like that house of the seven corpses.

And, and yeah, he just kept going all the way up until his death in 1988. 

Craig: I’m God, I have to say I’m surprised he lasted that long because he looks ancient in this movement. Now I realize that a. Today for whatever reason, um, people seem to be living longer and looking younger as they age again, for whatever reason, I don’t know, but he looks, he and Vincent Price are both very elderly in this movie, but that’s also kind of part of it’s charm.

The guy he played. Chetwynd Hayes. Um, the, the real guy, one of the issues that he took with the movie was that, um, John Carradine was too old to be playing and, and the, the role was offered to Peter Cushing. First, Christopher Lee, Christopher Lee. Oh, that’s right. Christopher Lee. Um, and, uh, he turned it down.

He would have. Uh, much younger at that time, but anyway, whatever it’s cute. So yeah. Aramis, Vincent Price, the vampire bites him, and then he’s like, oh I, and then he like goes through his wallet and he’s like, holy crap, you’re this author. And I’m a huge fan. And the guy, the guy’s like, why would you be a huge fan?

Why would you want to read about monsters? You are a monster. And he’s like, oh, everybody wants to read about people like themselves. Ah, which I thought was hilarious and he’s like, I want to pay you back. And it’s so cute because they’re just, they’re so like gentlemanly towards one another, like the vampires just bitten him and he’s like, I want to pay you back.

And he’s like, oh no, no, no need.

The Cheerios,

but he says, I, I want to take you to this monster club for inspiration. And that gets, um, the author’s attention. So they go to this monster club, which is shortly just to soundstage, set up to look kind of like a nightclub and full of monsters, but the monsters are just people in. Very mediocre, Halloween costumes, like, like silicone masks and, uh, plastic fangs and cheap costumes.

It look awful. It did. But in the spirit of Halloween, like, yes, super fun. I want to go to this Halloween party. I want to throw on a. Costume and a funny mask and go dance to these rock band performances that are all tongue in cheek, innuendo monster songs. And that’s 

Todd: the crazy thing about it is it’s like for its time, a modern club, there are lights and a stage and rock bands up there performing, you know, songs that are total.

Oh, and 

Craig: they’re great. That the first one, I think the first one is called. The monster club or something, but the chorus, like, I wish I could remember it I’d sing it, but I can’t. It’s like monsters Ru. Okay.

and he’s saying it over and over again, but it goes on forever. And between every segment we get a full. Song performance. 

Todd: That was so crazy, right? The movie is just like a big party. I think that what they were going for, right. Just this kind of insane party Halloweeny don’t take itself. Seriously kind of atmosphere.

And that’s why I thought it was going to be great for Halloween. And I’ll say in that respect, as far as I’m concerned, it didn’t. 

Craig: No, no. And it’s not like they never say anything about Halloween. They never say it’s set on Halloween or whatever. It doesn’t matter. This is a Halloween movie through and through costumes, monsters, parties dancing, totally Halloween.

And I usually wait, I usually wait until the end, but you’ve already said it like, this is a group. Halloween party movie, you know, you’re, you’re having a house party. Turn the TV on, have something on in every room. This is great. This would be perfect. People could sit and watch if they want it to, or it could just be atmospheric in the background is great.

This stories. Oh, before we get into the stories, Vincent Price has there, there’s a poster on the wall. Oh my goodness. Monster genealogy and Vincent Price has a long and detailed monologue about what happens when different monsters mate with one another. And what results from that. And I have never in my life.

Heard this kind of thing. No, but two of the stories, you know, there’s a vampire story. Of course we’ve all heard about vampires, but two of the stories are about these. Hybrid monsters that are strange, but interesting. Like I really was into it. I was 

Todd: too, he tells this story and God that must’ve been a pain to memorize that ma the actor in me was just sitting there going, oh my God, how can we deliver this whole thing?

But the first story is about a shad mock, oh, we’ll open a Google 

Craig: with produce. Uh, we are too, but the vampire and the Google would produce. It’s a weird go. And 

Todd: the weird vamp would produce 

Craig: a shadow. Now aware go in the bamboo would imagine, but if we’re advancing van Gogh would produce a rabbit. Now, if a shabby were to mate with a ratchet or a mandate, the results would 

Todd: be 

Craig: a muck.

Where to meet with any of the other hybrids. They’re all Springs would be called Chapman 

Todd: and they only recently, so anyway, he says, this is the most sad of all of the monsters, the most pathetic 

Craig: of them. Yeah. They don’t really do anything except whistle. All they could 

Todd: do is whistle. Yeah. 

Craig: And the guys like they whistle and Vincent Price was like, well, not very often, but.

Uh, and he’s like, well, what is the whistle do? And he’s like, oh, wow. I’ve only ever encountered one person who experienced the shad mocks whistle. And that’s the intro to the story. And the first thing you see is this guy, his name ends up being George in a, like in an asylum and in a padded room. And all these doctors are looking at him and talking about him and he’s catatonic, and then it flashes back and.

A story that that guy is really only kind of tangentially in, but he and his girlfriend, Angela are scam artists, I guess. And they’re looking through a newspaper for their next hit. And, uh, they come across this guy. Who’s looking for like somebody to help him catalog inventory, 

Todd: antiques, antiques. 

Craig: Yeah. And they’re like, oh, that sounds promising.

He probably has lots of expensive stuff. So they send Angela, she goes to his house. It’s this big, huge slike stone Gothic mansion. It’s gorgeous. And the guy that answers the door. His name is Raven, even though I don’t know that they ever say that he opens the door and he’s just very pale and gaunt with pale makeup on his skin and dark highlights around his eyes and shadow.

And he’s kind of 

Todd: in the shadows. He’s in the shadows at first can not look at her as he’s leading her through. Talking about how the PR that was very hard to keep secretaries because, uh, eventually they couldn’t work very well together. And, 

Craig: and, and when he finally. Brings his face into the light. She is so frightened by him that she runs away, which like, I don’t care.

It’s not like I’m looking for realism in this movie, but he wasn’t. I mean, he was kind of ugly I guess, but like, he was just pale. Like, it wasn’t really that big of a deal. 

Todd: I thought they were going for the launch. Annie Phantom vibe, the launch. Yeah. It w he spins around and the light hits him and expression on his face that he’s making.

And that sort of reveal moment is exactly the same reveal moment as when Christine poles, the mask off the Phantom in the old black and white Lon, Chaney, where the opera and his face is actually reminiscent to that. That’s true. A little less ghastly and, uh, with, with, without the horrible teeth and she runs out right.

Sort of screaming and. Like 

Craig: you said, I, I thought that this, this was in the trivia. I just thought it was really funny that I, that genealogy poster, the artist who made that, drew it before they cast the movie. And then they just happened to cast somebody who looked exactly like his illustration. It’s so weird.

Um, but anyway, um, she’s frightened about. But George, her boyfriend convinces her to go back because there is tons of stuff there and she goes back and I like this story because it’s Gothic in the way that I don’t even know if you’d call him the antagonist, but the monster is very sympathetic. Yeah. He’s very meek and mild and, and lonely, sad, lonely, sad about the fact that he’s an outcast and he can’t be around people and he’s trapped in his home because if he goes out, people have these terrible reactions to him, and it’s really sad.

So. They start working together. And then he obviously starts trying to woo her in a very sweet way, giving her flowers, giving her rooms full of flowers. And it seems to me that she started to feel sorry for him. And she goes back to George and says that she wants to pull out. She doesn’t want to do it anymore, but he convinces her to.

Keep going, you know, like we can at least get something, you know, even if it’s just a little something, we can get something to stick around for awhile. Raven is friends of the birds 

Todd: and I’m not even, not even the, you know, high class doves, but they’re lowly cousins. The pitch 

Craig: he’s friends, the birds are his friends and he feeds them.

And here there is only friends and this cat has been skulking around. For a long time. And eventually this cat kills one of his birds and he’s devastated. He picks up this dead bird and you know, it was like crying. And then he sees the cat and he puckers his lips and the camera does it intense, close up on his lips.

Anyway. And Angela hears it from inside and it scares her and she runs out and crosses him as he’s running in and he’s weeping and runs up the stairs and she goes outside and the cat is completely melted, gooey pile. I mean, in the shape of a cat, but just a goofy pile of. Okay. And so she doesn’t particularly freak out about that.

George tells her to look for a safe, and she sees him make a transaction with somebody for a ring that he shows her. And then he puts it in the safe show. He knows where it is. And then Raven asks her to marry. And she doesn’t really respond. Like I think she just leaves and she feels guilty, but George is like, well, just go along with it and tell him if you’re going to marry him, you need a ring.

So he’ll get that ring out of the vault and you can. The combination and she’s reluctant, but she does. 

Todd: She’s super reluctant. 

Craig: Yeah. But he’s like he said, of course you can have the rain. You can have anything you want. All I want is your love. You could still love me. You know, you could still love me. And he confesses to being a shad walk and he’s like, Hmm, I can’t really explain what that is.

But my family, if you meet my family, you’ll kind of get it. And so let’s have this big engagement party and it’ll be fancy and we can dress up, but it has to be a masquerade because I don’t want you to see people’s faces. And she’s like, that’s cool. I love getting dressed up. So they have this big masquerade ball, 

Todd: which is a total eyes wide shut vibe.

It’s very, totally quiet. Nobody’s 

Craig: talking about. Quiet, nobody’s talking, everybody’s just dancing. But the shad walk masks are spooky because they’re basically just like formless, opaque, plastic over their face. And they’re very super simple, but like in that simplicity, just hiding whatever is behind there is kind of creepy.

It’s a big, you know, ballroom dance and they’re all dancing and rape. Stands back while she’s like being passed among the other men of the family. And eventually she sneaks away to the safe, which I thought was so stupid. 

Todd: Like really it’s time to do this by the way. Right. 

Craig: And of course he catches her, but he’s like, whatever, take the money.

I don’t care. I don’t need the money. You could still love. And she freaks out. It’s like, I could never love you. And you’re a monster you’re hideous. And, um, he whistles, then it cuts back. Oh. And I loved that scene when he whistles and the, uh, ballroom dancing just stops. The music stops, everybody stops and just turns and looks in that direction.

Super cool. But the next thing we see is, um, back at her apartment with her boyfriend. She comes in the door, but she’s hooded and she walks into a corner and she turns around and she pulls her hood down and her face is completely melted. And she says to him, you could still love me. And she keeps repeating that.

I loved that story. It’s not a cinematic masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but the story I thought was great. 

Todd: Heartbreaking, right. Oh, it’s so good. Very tales from the crypt and so cool. And then we get a song that’s, I’m just a sucker for your love, with 

Craig: your song. Hilarious. 

Todd: It basically. Three or four minutes of just this guy, his face, and to be fast for four or five minutes of this guy’s face, he was putting on quite a performance, but even the camera needed something interesting to do.

And it kept like zooming in and zooming out and zooming in and zooming out and zooming in and zooming out. And I was thinking, God, if I had to watch this on a big screen, I think I would like to dizzy at this point, 

Craig: the songs are fun. I have to say they dragged on a little. Because literally you get the whole performance, 

Todd: but you know, they weren’t bad.

Craig: Like, no, they weren’t, they weren’t 

Todd: bad. They were catchy. Right? Yeah. That’s 

Craig: true. That’s true. The lip sinking, left a little bit to be desired, but whatever who cares. Yeah. Then the club secretary, who’s aware Wolf introduces this director named linked them, but Suski, and he’s a vampire, but he just looks like a guy handsome.

And he said that he’s going to present this film based on his own youth. And then we jumped right into the next story, the vampire story. And this is the one that Britt Ekland is in. So I’ll let you take 

Todd: it. Yeah. Oh, it’s, it’s kind of a interesting story. You’re not, you don’t know what to take of it at first, uh, is this little boy and he’s going to school and his mother who’s Britt, Ekland, uh, you know, tells her, you had encourages him.

You mustn’t worry 

Craig: about those children. You see, you must remember that you are better than they are back in the old country, but we came from your father was a nobleman. He’s a calm, which means of course, that I am accountants. You must be a vibe, 

Todd: but then we see it later on in the movie and oh, your dad works so hard for you and, you know, try your best at school is it’s a mom who knows that her kid is being bullied and he’s kind of a sad, hot mom.

Hot mom, mom, that’s not unimportant. I mean, it is to the story, but not to me, not watching, but it’s typical boy hood, you know, he goes to school and the kids are teasing him and pushing him around and they’re jumping over a puddle and they’re daring him to jump over a puddle. And he can’t, he jumps right in the middle of the puddle, which causes all the kids to laugh.

The principal or some teacher, wherever kind of shoes them away while the kids stands there in the puddle for the next five minutes, it’s kind of weird, but he’s being looked upon by Donald Pleasants, his character, uh, who looks to be dressed like a priest at that time. I thought anyway, 

Craig: no, but then later he’s not, I guess it was just a disguise Donald Pleasants.

I didn’t know he was in all those old Amycus movies. I only knew him from. Yeah. So that was 

Todd: interesting. Yeah, it is kind of interesting. Um, and it’s nice seeing him here. He does a fine job with his role. I think he, the son comes home and his dad comes up, I think, uh, from the. Basically where he sleeps, which is in the basement.

And he goes through this long monologue as well. Uh, as far as talking about his job to his assign. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. And he warns him to watch out for men with violin cases. This, this one was sillier of all three. This one was the silliest. It was kind of like, um, Ozzie and Harriet, except the dad’s a vampire, you know, like that’s what, that’s what it felt like, but like not a mean scary vampire.

That’s just what he does. Like dad gets up at night and goes to work. Oh my God. But not before kissing his wife and kid goodbye. And, and the kid looks out the window as he’s leaving. And he turns around and smiles and waves, and he’s very affable and friendly. Like, no. Frightening in any way, but it’s a hundred percent apparent that he’s a vampire.

It’s never 

Todd: hidden from us. It’s silly. But then it was around this time that I noticed that this violin music was continuing play underscoring, the whole thing. And I was getting these distinct godfather vibes so much like the godfather with all this going on. And these guys with violin cases running around and, and, uh, eventually they corner the kid and they 

Craig: are Donald Pleasants.

He’s got like some goons and they do carry around violin cases. It turns out that they’re vampire hunters and that’s, you know, all it comes down to Donald Pleasants, gets the kid to talk about his dad and the fact that he sleeps all day and oh really? Where does he sleep? Oh, down in the basement. Okay. 

Todd: So go down and check it out sometime.

Craig: Yeah. Right. And it’s so as soon as the mom leaves to go shopping or whatever, the kid goes down there finds his dad in the coffin is scared. And then the guy show up. We are the beach box, honey. Special brownish concerned with blood crimes. We have sworn to eradicate the curse of feminism from this land.

Your father, hasn’t been the most difficult case of Michaelia on hunted and from London, he’s been clever, very clever, but now 

Todd: I’ve got him. It’s total like untouchables type stuff. It’s so silly. The mom comes home, but not before this guy has hammered a stake through dad’s chest and then mom comes home and screams.

And at that moment, um, the vampire. In enough time to bite Donald Pleasance on the neck. So now his guys look at him and I’m like, oh my God, sir. Well, now you’re a vampire and he’s freaking out and they’re like, well, we’re just going to have to stick you, you know? Uh, sorry, sir. Try to make it as painless as possible.

He wouldn’t mind laying down over here. 

Craig: How would you be most comfortable, sir?

Todd: And it was kind of hilarious. They go through this just wacky routine. Now it’s like people bumping their heads into walls and, you know, he holds up a mannequin in front of them, which they accidentally steak and whatnot. Anyway, I don’t remember how it is, but they finally get the steak. There it is. They get him 

Craig: down on the stairs.

And then the guy, you know, just the random goon guy, like holds this huge steak up over his chest. And then just very lightly taps it with the hammer, like tap, tap, tap, tap. But apparently that was enough. ’cause he said. And so they, they take him out on a stretcher and again, there’s more physical comedy there.

It’s, it’s, it’s pretty stupid. But then we cut back down to the basement where mom and son. Grieving, but dad pops up and he was like, thank goodness. I always wear my stake proof vests. He’s like, there’s tomato, ketchup under here. And they all laugh and hug. And the dad says such a happy family. And then that’s it.

That’s 

Todd: the end. It’s cheesy 

Craig: as hell. So cheesy. And in watching it like. Honestly, I was rolling my eyes a little bit, but I knew talking to you that I would enjoy talking about it because as silly as it is, it’s cute. And it’s funny. That’s another thing I like about this movie and I was reading reviews.

And a lot of the review. And when I say reviews, I don’t mean critical reviews. I mean, viewer reviews, a lot of them were saying, you know, this is fun because it’s like, old-school whore. This is something that you could sit down and watch with your family. And it is, this would be something that you could sit down with your family and watch around Halloween time.

Scary in some regards, but there’s no, there’s very, very little gore, like some white blood, which ends up being tomato, ketchup, and some mild, mild violence. I could show this in school. Oh yeah. And I liked that. I appreciate that about it. Especially if you had young kids who were, you know, excited about Halloween and you didn’t want to show them nightmare on Elm street, but you wanted to kind of get that spooky vibe.

I don’t know how much kids would appreciate this because kids tend to think old things are late. Yeah. Uh, I don’t know. I liked it. I would sit down and watch it with kids. It’s good storytelling. It reminded me a lot of like, after school specials, like those Saturday morning, not necessarily afterschool, but those, those Saturday morning live action kind of drama things that sometimes would be kind of creepy and scary, I guess, kind of like the precursor to.

Like goosebumps or are you afraid of the dark or something like that? I know we’ve talked about it before, but it’s the only one that I can think of off the top of my head, uh, the red room or something like that, that they played when we were kids it’s along those lines. But anyway, I liked that about it.

It’s charming. 

Todd: And then we’re back to the club and the next song is about a stripper, which is. Actually, I thought it was the catchiest song of the bunch. I actually liked it.

then during the instrumental break of the song, suddenly on the other stage, there is a woman who starts stripping and I was like, whoa, this is actually going to be kind of cool. And then she turns around and is facing the wall. She starts to take her bra off. The light goes out on the stage so that you just see her in shadow and she starts peeling off from one arm, her skin, you see her bones in shadow peels, the other arm, the skin off, and you can see the other boat and then peels the legs and all that.

This is basically, it becomes a dancing skeleton. I 

Craig: loved it. Absolutely loved it. That was brilliant. I thought it was great. It was animated of course, you know, from the time that it switches. I was surprised that the movie was going to go there, but it never went. Live action beyond burlesque, you know, it was just TZ kid-friendly totally.

And right at the point where it would have become a titty show, then the lighting changed and it turned to animation and she started stripping her skin off. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. It was great. And then, uh, the, uh, the author guy asks he’s like, He points to one of the faces at the very bottom of the genealogy chart.

And he’s like this girl, she can’t be a monster because she looks like a human and harassments like, oh, well, I mean, she’s only kind of a monster cause she’s, uh, a Hume goo, which is half human half ghoul. And the author is like, well, what does she do? Does she whistle

and he’s like, no, they really don’t do much of anything. He said, uh, aside from they do have like a character. Appetite, which comes from their ghoulish ancestry. They’re really not bad. They really don’t do anything. But then he, uh, tells the story, well, I don’t know if he tells it, but we get the next story and it’s the human view story.

And it’s the last one. And I liked it too. It started out looking like it was going to be another vampire story, but it turns out that that’s really what we see in the beginning of. Uh, a film set of vampire movie being made. And the director is talking to one of his production assistants and asking about scouting locations and the production assistant makes some sort of excuse or something.

And the director’s like, well fine, whatever. I’ll do it myself. So he goes production scouting, and then gets in over his head. Yeah, he’s 

Todd: driving through the London countryside and following some map or something drives to this place and he sees a sign for ghouls. And drives down that street. It goes through the forest and then into this massive fog.

And as soon as he comes out on the other side of the fog, uh, he is immediately in this very small like village, I guess. It looks like a movie set. Yeah. There’s a little cemetery there that looked like all the graves have been dug up. There’s a little church. Then he walks into what must be like a hotel or a motel or something.

And the proprietor walks out and just, just super spooky. And um, he says, ah, who runs things here? I want to, I want to check this place out for movie set and ask for permission. And this guy says, oh, the elders, the elders will, how do I talk to the elders? Or the elders will be back. But, uh, he walks upstairs and around is this, oh, this is when he starts getting crowded by just creepy.

Yeah. 

Craig: They appear out of nowhere that innkeeper, by the way, it was played by Patrick McGee or Maggi, not sure. Um, but he had a really, uh, disturbing. In a clockwork orange, every role in a clockwork orange was destroyed. That’s true. I recognize him. Yeah, those, um, these, these gray clothed and gray faced people just like appear out of nowhere and there are a bunch of them and he tries to go out to his car and they’re like crowded all around them.

He gets out to his car. But it’s clearly been sabotaged, 

Todd: yells at them. They push them inside. Yeah. 

Craig: They push him back inside. He locks himself in a room and then this young girl appears and identifies herself. She talks weird. Like, I don’t know why, like she doesn’t have full languages and thing. It’s weird.

She’s she’s pretty, her name is Lou. I saw that she had been in other things. I didn’t write it down. Um, oh, she was an elephant man, so she brings some food and she very cryptically. She compliments his clothing

clothes.

We’ll get these boxes.

And you quickly figure out that she’s talking about graves from the graveyard. And she says, but now all of the boxes are empty, but she tells them that her mother was human and she’s dead now. And I guess they ate her. I don’t know. Um, but so she’s a human goo and, uh, she, she basically confesses that he’s food.

They’re, they’re going to be. But she says run across the courtyard to the church because they can’t go in there. I can. Cause I’m only.

Um, and so he does, and they try to stop him, but he’s able to get in there. And then he finds, I say a corpse, but it’s really like a skeleton with a book. And in this book, he reads the story about how these ghouls took over this village. And this part of the movie was genius. Like a feature length film about this and in this style, I agree.

I loved it. You 

Todd: know, it actually made up for the kind of low budget production design of these ghouls, you know, which were just, like you said, they looked like gray people, um, was seeing the imagery, uh, of the book, apparently that he’s flipping through where it has illustrations of these goals, which are.

Creatures. It actually looked like something from tales, from the crypt, with fangs coming out and looking spooky. And I think just mentally, I was able to project that level of tear onto the people that were attacking him. Now, I was like, oh God, this is, this is really freaky. And at that moment they start throwing rocks.

Oh, she, she runs in, right. So she manages to run in and join. Uh, and they start throwing rocks through the windows. And she even mentioned to him, they’re super easy to kill people with rocks, these guys. Uh, and so they’re kind of under assault from afar, but he he’s has this big stick with a cross on it that he finds in the corner that he sticks out the window.

And that is what, ah, you know, Kind of like vampires, like drives them back a little bit. So he uses that stick with a cross on it to get him and her out. And he, he promises her. I’m going to get you out of here. I’m going to put you in movies and all kinds of stuff. Right. And so they just full on run, uh, using the.

Uh, to offend those guys off and they tear off down the road that he drove in on many trips a couple of times, and he sticks the stick up, uh, with a cross to try to just leave that behind so that they won’t progress on the path they take another way around. Eventually they get to the fog. And, uh, their guys are right behind them and they run through the fog.

But as they’re running through the fog, she gets hit in the back of the head by one of those rocks. And they’re on the other side of the fog, which presumably is what kind of keeps them in, but she’s dying and she dies.

Craig: Well, I mean, the acting was pretty bad, but yeah, like all she wanted to do was, you know, get out. She, can you get me out? Will you get me out? And she wants to wear nice clothes and ride the underground. Cause she, they told her there’s really good eating and the.

But she’s, she’s a pretty girl and she, you know, she plays very innocent and sweet and again, no blood, no gore, nothing. It’s just, she got hit in the back and she’s like, it’s just like, when father hit the rabbit in the back, it died and now I will die. If he closer inside that. 

Todd: Yeah. So he flags down a car of cops that are coming by and, uh, he just runs out.

He hops in the car and the cops, instead of going down the road to get help, turn around and start driving back, uh, into ghouls Ville. And, uh, he’s like, where are you going? What are you doing? And they turned down there and they start to go through the fog. And the cop turns to him and says, oh, we always, uh, have a police escort for the elders when they returned to London.

And so, you know, it has that twist at the end where he’s not going to escape, but my God. I thought this was a creepy story, that it was creepier than it had any right to be. It was, 

Craig: yes, it was that, that reminded me very much for whatever reason of Twilight zone. It felt very Twilight zone. Um, and in a good way, you know, and in the end, he’s in the back of the car and the ghouls of course are like pounding on the windows and then the cops shut her out and they’ve got the big, scary teeth.

And that’s where it ends. That was the only one. That the app, the real author whose stories these are based on, that was the only one that he felt was adapted appropriately. He liked that one and I did too. And that probably was my favorite one and, and those illustrations, and I say illustrations because it wasn’t animation, they were still, but they did cool things with the camera zooming in and out and moving to almost make it look animated, but the illustrations were.

Great. Like they looked so good and seriously, I would watch that movie, the movie of one ghoul showing up in the town minister being like, oh, all God’s creatures. And so it takes him in and like washes it up and puts it in bed. And you just see this little ghoul, like peaking up over the sheets. Uh, I would so watch that.

Um, but anyway, so now we’re back to the club and the author says he wants to leave. And, uh, harassments is like, no, I want to induct you into the club. And he’s like, but I’m not even a monster. And then he’s like, oh, but we can’t have a monsters club without having humans. And then Vincent Price goes off on a.

Long monologue that’s genius. In the past 60 years, humans have exterminated over 150 million of their own kind. No effort is being spared to reach this astronomical figure. And the methods that they have used must demand our uncertainty, that duration, you know, Humes began with certain, very serious disadvantages, but these, they overcame with wonderful ingenious.

Not having a fag or a claw or even their wisdom worth talking about. They invented guns and tanks and bombs and airplanes and extermination camps and poison, Gaston, daggers, and swords and bayonets and booby traps and atomic bombs and flying the silos. Submarines, woe ships, aircraft carrier. And motor because they have even perfected a process whereby they can spread a lethal disease on any pot of this.

Not to say anything about nuclear power. Oh. During their short history, your now humans have subjected other humans to death by burning, hanging the capitation, strangulation electrocution shooting, drowning, crushing racking.

and other methods far, far too revolting for the delicate stomachs of this August to say, I never realized he was so talented. We don’t 

Todd: like to boast. You can’t argue with anything. He said there it’s pretty good. It’s, it’s a really fitting into it. And then it just ends with the dance party 

Craig: with a Vincent Price.

And John Karody like a hundred years 

Todd: old, hopping around dancing with 

Craig: the. Well, it’s, let’s call them robust women. Oh boy. It was something. And it’s just that party at the end. And that’s just it like, you know, all of these people in mass and stuff, singing and dancing and partying and the old guys dancing a little bit of, 

Todd: or feeling there.

I think they were trying to capture some of that spirit there too, just with the randomness, you know, and all those monsters, horrible monster. Masks and things like that, but again, it just felt cool in its campiness. Yep. So, yeah, I mean, I ended the movie feeling happy. I liked the three stories. The third one was definitely my favorite one.

The first one I thought was just heartbreaking touching and whatever. It just, just, 

Craig: it was a good mix. It was a really nice balance. It was, you had the heartbreaking one and then the silly kind of cheesy one. And then the really kind of like creepy one. It was a really good. 

Todd: I didn’t even mind the songs. I thought the song could be annoying, but I thought they were fine.

They were kind of fun. 

Craig: You can get the soundtrack. I think, uh, if you buy the blue Ray, it comes with not only the soundtrack with the songs, but also some of the score too. I don’t know that I need it, but just in case you want it.

Todd: Speaking of soundtrack. Did you know, I saw this in the end credits that the violin music in the background of the second, uh, thing was all traditional Transylvanian folk melodies. Oh 

Craig: yes. I totally noticed the music and I loved it and I thought that it was genius. Like they talk about, watch out for guys carrying violin cases, and then you’ve got this heavy violin score.

Yeah. It was cool. It’s a goofy movie. It’s goofy. It’s cheesy. It’s silly. It doesn’t take itself too seriously. I honestly, you know, I understand why the three horror legends who didn’t take it. I understand why they didn’t. And I also know from things that we’ve talked about before that Vincent Price in his later years was just really not getting the kind of work that he had been getting in the past and he wanted to continue working.

So he would have. Um, pretty much anything that got thrown his way, but that being said, one of, you know, I don’t know if it was one of his final films, but definitely late, late in his career. Um, he did Tim Burton’s, Edward Scissorhands, which I just think is one of the most beautiful movies. Ever, and he is absolutely heartbreaking in that movie.

And John Carradine is, you know, like you said, he still lives had, I don’t know, a good 5, 6, 7 years after this, but, and I mean this with no disrespect, but the man looked old. Like he looks like he’s got one foot in the grave. Um, but, but it’s still, it’s still great to see these old guys who clearly wanted to work and we’re still getting work and it’s a fun movie.

I’m not surprised that it doesn’t have huge, critical acclaim. I’m a little bit more surprised that it doesn’t have more of a cult following than it does, because it seems like the type of movie that’s right for that, but I’m glad to have seen it. It was for. I might even watch it again 

Todd: is me too, especially around Halloween time.

Yeah. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend. We have plenty of more Halloween themed episodes coming up for you this month. So please stick around, just search us two guys in a chainsaw podcast and you’ll find our YouTube page, our home page, our Twitter feed.

Uh, if you could think of a good Halloween movie for us to do this year next year, just let us know just by submitting to a comment on one of those places. And we’ll be sure to put it on our list until next time. I’m Todd 

Craig: and I’m Craig

Todd: with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

It’s time for our favorite season of the year! We kick off our annual series of Halloween-appropriate films with a movie about a haunted attraction gone very wrong.

At the same time they were writing the soon-to-be-hit-film, A Quiet Place, writer/directors Scott Beck and Bryan Woods were toiling away on this nasty thriller. Evocative of movies like Hostel and Saw, it’s no surprise that Eli Roth decided to nurture and produce Haunt. We’re looking forward to more horror in the future from this duo.

Haunt (2019)

Episode 270, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Craig: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd: And I’m Todd.

Craig: Todd, It is our favorite time of the year! October! I tell you what I swear. I look forward to this time of year, every single year. And like, I start gearing up for it, like September 1st, 

Todd: The only month that makes life worth living, eh?

Craig: Ah, it’s so good. Better than Christmas. I was going to say lots of normal people get like super stoked about Christmas and Christmas is lovely.

I like to be with my family and get gifts and things like that. That’s nice. It’s it’s quaint, but oh, October and a Halloween really are my absolute favorite time of the year. And uh, we have a tradition here at two guys of doing a month worth of. Halloween centered movies. And, uh, I don’t know. I think it was just one dude who sent us a message is like you guys, you don’t have to do a stupid theme.

Halloween muds. There are other good ones. Okay, sir. 

Todd: It was like for your input, it was a review when somebody was like, oh, they’re great. Oh, they’re awesome. I love listening to them, but why do they waste their time doing dumb movies around the holidays? Just because they feel like they have to. And I’m like, really?

Craig: It’s not because we feel like we have to because we’re big nerds and we love this shit 

Todd: all the time. Plus it gives us some direction, you know, sometimes. There only, what was it, your mom who was like, I didn’t even know. There were 200 horror movies and we’re like, God, there’s so many horror movies. Like what are we going to choose this week?

So it’s good to have like a framework within which to choose something. Some restrictions. It is. 

Craig: It’s nice. That being said, we always say every year, Probably going to run out. We’ve done so many at this point, but no, there are bazillions of them. I mean, we’ve got a whole list of Halloween movies. We’ve got probably at 20 or more on the list that we could do, and there are more and more coming out every year.

It seems like, especially there are a lot of Halloween and. Anthologies coming out every year and we love those. We’ve even thrown around the idea of doing a, an anthology month, you know, even just outside of the holidays, love those movies. But I w you know, we, we said, we think about it, and as always, we put it off until the last minute.

And, uh, I finally just, uh, Google. I was at work and had a minute. So I Googled Halloween movies and I came up with a whole list and it turns out the one that I picked was already on. We’re looking at hot from 2019, this was a Netflix exclusive film written and directed by a couple of guys, Scott Beck and Brian Woods, who would be best known for being the writers of a quiet place.

Uh, and, and I don’t know if they wrote a quiet place to, or if they just got writing credit because it was based on 

Todd: their character. But still A Quiet Place that was like a worldwide hit. Oh my 

Craig: gosh. It was huge. I loved it. I thought it was great. I thought it was a great movie. I saw the sequel. I thought it was okay.

I didn’t like it as much as I liked the first one, but it was still an entertaining movie. Um, and apparently these guys, uh, were writing haunt and a quiet place at the same time. He, you know, Thinking because they hadn’t had any major successes before. So they had no expectation that either one of these movies would sell or do well.

And, uh, a quiet place did exceptionally well. And this movie did pretty well. I mean, it didn’t make a ton of money. I think I’d only made a few million dollars. But it didn’t, uh, play, uh, in, it had a very limited release in theaters. That’s a shame, but when it premiered on Netflix at the time that it premiered, it was the most watched premiere that they had had, not that may have been surpassed.

It probably has, but at the time it was the most watched premiere. And it’s funny, cause I picked this, it sounded interesting to me. And then I put it on. And in the first 10 seconds, I realized that I had seen it before. Oh

yeah, I did. I realized I had seen it before and I was like, 

Todd: well, you realized it was on, in the background while you were grading papers one day. Yep. 

Craig: Most likely, most likely. I do. And honestly, because of that, I was glad to watch it again because you know, I’m, I’m doing, I put them on, in the background to keep myself stimulated, to motivate me, to continue grading because on the weekends, when I have to grade, I mean, that’s often like a six or eight hours stretch, which is, you know, a bummer.

But if I’ve got something on in the background that can kind of. Keep me stimulated. You’ve seen this kind of movie before these it’s about, it’s about an extreme haunt that, you know, these young people go to on Halloween and then it ends up being of course, far more extreme than they ever would have imagined.

And I’ve seen that movie, you know, at least three or four times probably. And that’s fine. 

Todd: And on often. They’re pretty bad to be honest, most of the time, this doesn’t work as well as you 

Craig: think. Right. And I had forgotten really. I kind of remembered it. In fact, I was talking to my partner and I was like, oh yeah, I remember this movie.

It’s kind of like, you know, they get into this haunted house and it’s all set up as a haunted house or whatever, but then it really becomes like, saw, like they just kind of start getting them. One by one in these interesting ways. Um, and that’s kind of true. Um, but I forgot that this movie has kind of an interesting twist at about the three quarters of the way through mark.

And so, uh, I was still, I had forgotten that, so I was still a little bit surprised by the movie over. I would say for a Halloween season movie. It’s good. Is it the greatest movie I’ve ever seen? Certainly not, you know, far from it, but, uh, it’s an enjoyable watch and I had a good time watching it. What did you think?

Todd: Yeah. I’m with you there. I’d never seen it before actually, but actually I didn’t realize that these were the writers of a quiet place until afterwards when I was doing research and I was like, oh, this comes from a rather impressive pedigree. And. Yeah. I mean, it w it was just shocked at, it was just a solid movie.

I think that’s the best way I could describe it. I was engaged throughout. I was never bored. It was predictable in the sense that, yeah, there’s not a lot. That’s new here, but far better than a number of these other takes place in a haunted house movies that I’ve seen. It actually had a lot of meat too.

It took me into some surprising places. Like, I wouldn’t say it was predictable. I mean, I kind of knew who was going to die and I pretty much knew what order they were going to tie in, you know? And I could see it coming, but what was the motivations behind the people doing this? Um, how was it all going to go down?

And it wasn’t just add as, as big trap in this haunted house. In fact, I was kind of surprised at how under utilized the aspect. Aside from the fact that they’re in a place that they can’t get out of easily and that they don’t really know how to navigate the haunted house itself. Wasn’t so much like saw in that there weren’t these like elaborate setups.

I mean, when people died, it was basically, ah, a guy comes out and like kills them. Right. So in a way, I wouldn’t say it’s a slasher movie. Like I’ve seen it’s online. It’s built as a slasher movie by a lot of people and know like a slasher movie is usually a killer, maybe two who are running around killing people.

And they’re kind of mysterious. You don’t know who they are. I mean, yeah, maybe, but this is, you know, Kind of a cult movie, I guess, or whatever, but 

Craig: yeah, there’s that interesting spin on it. And frankly, like I’m still not entirely sure what was going on now. 

Todd: I don’t think we’re supposed to know. I watched a little interview that was done by some guy on YouTube after watching the movie.

And he had both of the guys there and he was talking to them. And one thing that, one of them said, I don’t remember which of the two said what. Eli Roth as producer had helped them out a lot when they were conceiving this movie, when they were kind of finalizing it, putting it together. And one of the things that he said was look, the audience doesn’t need to know exactly why all this has had.

But they need to know that, you know, uh, they said they really took that to heart. So they have, they worked out a whole backstory for why this is going on, what’s happening and all that. And then they, they sprinkled little hints at that throughout the movie, but didn’t fully. And I had that confidence, you know, and I understand that direction because there’s nothing more annoying last there’s nothing more annoying than watching a movie or a TV series and realizing that they’re being.

Crazy and weird and trying to hint at things. And, and yeah. Even like, I think that was what pissed people off about the matrix too, by the time the trilogy was at the end, they, all people almost felt like none of this actually ends up making a lot of sense or it wasn’t as profound as we thought it would be.

And, or the writers and directors kind of. They had a half-baked concept that now they had to pretend that they’d fully baked. And so, you know, by the end of the movie, you don’t really feel like there was a point to it because you don’t feel like the writers themselves had a point, you know, they wanted to like cop out basically and go, Ooh, it’s whatever you want it to be.

Oh, we just want to keep it mysterious so the people can read what they want to read into it. And yeah. Okay at times, but a lot of times it’s just a cop-out well, yeah. W and we feel cheated and I didn’t feel that way watching this movie. I felt like, no, no, I don’t fully understand what’s happening. I’m fine with that because I get that there’s something happening here, you know what I mean?

And there’s a real reason behind it all. And that’s good enough for me. 

Craig: It’s funny that you brought up last, cause that was, I mean, I watched the whole series. I wouldn’t be of that. I know I was super into it, but the thing that was most infuriating. That is that fans predicted the end and they were adamant, no, no, that’s not what it is.

We swear it’s not. And then it was like, yeah, come on guys.

But, uh, I think that Eli Roth’s advice to the filmmakers was very good. And I think that it plays out in that way. We don’t have to understand everything. And the sad news is, you know, first of all, just say, I think that as far as cinematography goes, It’s good. Like, I can’t, I can’t come up with the right word, but it’s, it’s completely competent.

Like the cinematography is great. Like, I don’t have any complaints about it. It’s shot. Well, the acting is perfectly fine. In fact, I was surprised that I actually cared a little bit about these characters, especially since in the beginning, when they’re introduced, they felt kind of stereotypical, but as time went on, I actually came to like them as actual people and thought I might hang out with some of these.

Yeah. 

Todd: It’s funny that you say that because I was, as, as the movie was starting out, I was like, oh, this looks like a starting out to be another bunch of assholes who go out and I’ll get killed. You often describe it, which is totally actualized movies, but you’re right. It, after a very short period of time, you realize, oh no, they’re not the, actually some of these people have, well, the, one of the main characters, you know, the girl who was, I mean, from a mile away, you know, she’s going to be the final girl.

That’s one of the more predictable things about Harper, right? Actually she’s the only one with so much backstory. Right? Nobody else really has any backstory if I’m not mistaken. And then hers is laid on thick. It’s like, oh God, she clearly has. Poor home situation, possibly abusive father. Well, clearly abusive father as we get further into the movie.

But then like from the first scene is she’s in a club and she’s being texted and knowingly by her boyfriend. Who’s like, seems like just through the text to be the biggest douchebag, where are you? Why aren’t you calling me kind of thing. She’s got this backstory that keeps her compelling and interesting.

And that’s part of how, you know, she’s going to be the final girl. Didn’t really get much of a backstory on anybody else, but I. I thought they were cool. None of them were like, I can’t wait till that 

Craig: person dies. Yeah. I agree. The character is not, you know, like you said, the only, the one character really has a lot of backstory, but the other characters don’t just seem dumb.

One of them is a nurse or a medical student or something, and she doesn’t see none of them do. I mean, they seem like real people 

Todd: normal, 

Craig: right? Normal. There’s one guy, Nathan, they’re all dressed for Halloween because it is how. And Nathan leisurely dressed as a baseball player because he is a baseball player and he doesn’t really care about how Elouine.

And when I first met him, when we first met him, I thought he was going to be a total douche bag. He seemed like a douche bag in the beginning, but then he wasn’t, he seemed like a decent guy. Um, and there is one guy. Evan. He’s this heavier set guy who kind of is a Dick, but not so much that you can’t understand why these people would even hang out with them.

Like, I, it just seems like they kind of know his personality, um, but they don’t put up with his dickish Venus. So it’s fine. It’s 

Todd: not a night of the demons or spooky type situation where you’re looking at it going, why are these people even in the same car? 

Craig: Exactly exactly right. All of the girls are very pretty, but they are all, you know, capable, intelligent people.

I really liked the characters. I really did this. Sadly. I wasn’t able to find a whole lot. Interesting information about this behind the scenes. And that’s always a disappointment because I prefer to talk about those things. And I think that those things are more interesting, but the truth of the matter is this is a plot heavy movie.

So I kind of feel like we should get into it. I mean, it opens up the opening credits are very much like the opening credits of a nightmare on Elm street one, um, where it’s. Some shady figure, putting together, uh, this haunt and printing flyers to put out about it. And, and one of the primary things that is focused on in those opening credits is that he clearly sets a trap.

So you think that this is going to be trap heavy, but it’s not. The fact that trap that he sets and the opening credits doesn’t get sprung until the very end. And then in a really weird kind of anti-climactic way with a character who is completely inessential, 

Todd: who didn’t need to be there at all. Right.

There was no, 

Craig: there was no point for that character even being there. He, he didn’t do anything. Nothing, uh, you thought he might, but he didn’t. And it takes place in Illinois. Not that that’s important. Then we meet our main characters. There’s Harper, who is the girl next door. You know, she’s going to be the final girl, her roommate.

Uh, and she doesn’t really end up wearing a costume, but she’s wearing a red hoodie. So she’s kind of like little red riding hood, which is also suitable for her character. And then there’s her roommate Bailey who’s fricking gorgeous. Who’s just like, you know, in the typical sexy cat, you know, like not really a costume, just a sexy outfit and some cat ears.

And we get the whole set up that, uh, there’s a. Pumpkin smashed on their door. Did your boyfriend just throw a pumpkin at our door?

That’s not something he do. I, no, no. That’s bullshit. Bailey. You were breaking up with this bitch tonight. Bill, quit. Stop. Everything’s fine. She’s an alcoholic Harper. You want to know how I can get. Because he’s an alcoholic look, all I’m saying is that I came into your room last night is still some jewelry from a Halloween costume and you were passed out, but Harper is all, you know, obviously she’s for whatever reason, still connected to this guy in talking about it.

It’s super cliched. And really, because I didn’t even consider. In fact that her dad was an abuser. And now she’s with an abuser, which I understand is not uncommon, but it’s, uh, it’s a little heavy 

Todd: handed. The tagline of this movie. Some monsters are real

at all, 

Craig: I guess, whatever. And, uh, gosh, I mean, there’s just silly little details that ultimately aren’t that important, but hate, uh, Bailey borrowed Harper’s mom’s ring for her costume and harvest, like make sure you don’t lose that. Because it’s my mom’s, it’s really important. Me. And then we meet Angela who’s dressed as a nurse.

And I think she really is a healthcare worker because she has knowledge of that. Um, Evan is the douchey one who is dressed as the head of the human centipede, but the other people who are going to be his human centipede with them have ditched him. And so he’s all pissed. 

Todd: That’s actually pretty funny. It was kind 

Craig: of like one of the girls is like, uh, so they didn’t want to eat your ass all night.

So they ditched, 

Todd: it was a great line, which 

Craig: is hilarious. And I swear to God, if we ever. Doing human centipede on this podcast. I think that the viewers or listeners should let us know that it’s time when we’ve 

Todd: jumped.

Craig: I have, I have seen all three human set guides. My God, they are horrible. The first. The least horrible, but they are all just deprived and nasty and disgusting. They didn’t. Okay. So they’re all at a bar. They all meet up at a bar and Harper meets Nathan and he kind of, it seems like he kind of blows her off at first, but then they kind of start talking, but she goes outside to leave.

Cause she’s not really having a good time. And she’s somewhat approached by this man in a red robe. Like, like kind of a devil costume, but then she hears a noise and looks away and she looks back and he’s gone. And that’s when we find out randomly Nathan tells her about how Lee he’s a baseball player, but last season he took a pitch to the face and it totally shattered like half of his face.

So he’s like, you know, that was trauma for me. Has anything scary ever happened in your life? I just met you two minutes ago. Tell me about your drama. 

Todd: Uh it’s did instant flashbacks suddenly to, oh, well I was in a haunted house, you know? 

Craig: Yeah. Mysterious flashback. Like obviously I just have, in my notes, Harper has a past, like, we don’t know 

Todd: what it is yet.

Yeah, 

Craig: we’re going to find out the Nathan convinces her to stay and they decide at first they’re just going to go get something to eat and then go home. But then Evan finds one of those flyers that we saw being printed out. And so they decide some of them are really excited to go to a haunted house and they drive around.

And Evan’s driving and there’s a gag about him wanting to charge them for rideshare. Cause he’s a ride share driver, something stupid, but, uh, Harper notices that there’s a red truck following them, which she doesn’t just outright say my abusive alcoholic boyfriend drives a red truck light. Come on, be forthcoming.

Todd: You turn left. And then they see, oh, okay. I guess I’ll turn left. Like what. Hey guys. I think somebody is following us. Let’s see if we can ditch them. 

Craig: Yeah. I think my douchey boyfriend is following us or whatever it will. And then this, this is really kind of the only part that I thought was really stupid.

So they, and at first, maybe this is why the characters in the filmmakers didn’t tell us who it was in the truck yet because they take this turn to. This guy is going to be following them or not. They pull over to the side of the road conveniently right in front. Of the haunted house that they had been planning on going to, but they hadn’t even really planning, been exclusively planning on going to that.

Like the girls were all on their phones, seeing where all of the haunted houses were like, so they were still deciding where they were going to go, but they conveniently just like. Right in front of this one and the sign comes on right behind them. They’re like, oh, cool. Here we are. 

Todd: That was by far the dumbest part of this movie.

Craig: Well, and so I thought that, you know, maybe the truck had been luring them trying to push them there. Right. But no, it’s just, it turns out it’s just coincidence, whatever. So they pull up to this, uh, haunted place and it actually looks pretty cool. Um, and there are other people. But another group of people standing outside in line, and as they’re walking up, the other group gets ushered in and they’re greeted by this scary clown who is only scary, because I know you don’t think clowns are scary, but because it’s a clown.

Um, and because he doesn’t talk and because they’re scary music, 

Todd: this is 

Craig: a formula. Yeah. I mean, it’s, you know, like he messes with them. Uh, he makes Bailey the PR. I keep saying the pretty one. They’re all pretty, but my God, I just thought she was just gorgeous. The, he like makes her pick which hand, like he’s got something in his hands, turns out he doesn’t have anything in either hand.

And then he pulls out a key from behind her ear, which could be totally innocent except for the very scary music in the back. Um, and the key is for this lock box and she opens the lock box and it’s got, what do you call is 

Todd: waiver. Absolve themselves 

Craig: of live the liability. That’s like a liability waiver.

Right. And not only that, but then they have to leave their phones in there, which I don’t know that I would do, but I also don’t know that I would be terribly surprised if I was asked to. 

Todd: I wish that every haunted house I walked through made people leave their phones at the front and or amusement park, dark rides.

Because the last time I went to an amusement park, like Disneyland or someplace like that. Oh yeah. Disneyland, Shanghai. And I was on the pirates of the Caribbean and there were like four people in front of me on this boat shining their cell phone lights everywhere, completely ruined. Fact of what was going on.

So I was actually, I saw that and I was like, oh God, yeah, that’s great. Make them lock their cell phones in this, in this box and then give them the key. Yeah. Then that’s fine. Right? Sure. 

Craig: In theory, I mean, in real life, it’s really not that big of a deal, but they’re going into a killing den. It would have been nice if they would add their fetal Craig.

Todd: I’m sure that if they had been pre-warned that they were going into a killing done, they would have said, ah, we’ll just take our phones with us. Thank you. 

Craig: That’s probably true. Probably chiro. Oh gosh. And so then they get in there and at first it’s standard, like it’s a very standard haunted house with like skeletons popping out at them.

Todd: Props 

Craig: and things. Yeah. Right. But then once they get through just like the very first hallway and it’s still standard, but it just feels like a really good haunted house. Like if they weren’t. Actually getting killed. This would be an awesome haunted house. I would so badly want to go there. Like it’s really cool.

It’s basically a series of rooms, but every room or a hallway has a different theme or obstacle or puzzle or something. And they’re all. They’re all like super creepy and Halloween-y and super 

Todd: cool. Yeah. I would love to go to this haunted house. It’s almost like, I mean, it’s not as sophisticated as an escape room, cause it’s not like they have to S literally solve a puzzle in every room, but they’ll get in one room and the door slams behind them.

And then they’re sort of forced to watch a scene or something. Right. I think it’s, is it before or after they crawl through the hallway? That one, one thing, one room that they’re locked in and then suddenly. A chain link fence basically is one of the walls and the curtain opens up and it’s sort of a witch scene where there’s this person dressed in a robe with a witch mask on and all of their masks look kind of old fashioned, right?

They look almost like out of the forties or fifties, she drags this body bag in and unzips it. And there’s this girl in there and she starts screaming. And the witch out of this cauldron pulls out a red, hot poker and goes down and brands her. Sort of on the cheek and then like the curtain closes and they’re disturbed by it.

But, you know, I don’t know if you and I were walking through this haunted house, we’d be like, yeah, clearly this is like a thing, 

Craig: right? This is an app. Oh yeah. And I would be like, oh my God, that was awesome. Realistic 

Todd: smoking off her cheek and stuff. They really, 

Craig: I see. If you have an Eagle eye. Now, I can’t say this with certainty, but I’m, I’m pretty sure that that girl was in line when they.

Approach. Um, but it does look very real, but it also just looks like a really good effect because as soon as the witch touches her with like this red, hot poker, like steam pops up, the curtain closes, you know, it just seems like a really good scene that they had planned out and the 

Todd: other door opens and they continue.

Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. And then they’re, they’re faced with. And you can go one of two ways, one way says safe, one way says not safe. And they split up evenly. Evan Harper and Mallory Mallory is, uh, dressed as a flapper and who goes on and on and on about how she hates spiders. They take the not safe trail and they.

Ironically in a hall full of spider webs with a lot of great big fake spiders. But when they look closely, there are also some very scary looking real spiders in there too. And when they get through that hallway, they come to a room with three coffins standing on end. That was awesome. It was, and again, very like had I been there?

Very cool. Yeah. The other three ended up in a hall. That’s like the walls are covered in oil and there are big like trash bags, full of oil, like hanging over the ceiling and they don’t get it. And I didn’t get it either. It pays off later, but I didn’t get it either, but the ones that are in the coffin room, they don’t know what to do, but they’re like maybe it’s some kind of like puzzle and it is, they, they open all of the doors to the coffins.

Thing in there, but then they close all of the doors and when they close the last one, they hear something like something mechanical. And so they think that there may be like a, a hatch or something, but it only opens if the door is closed and these coffins are the old fashioned like Pinewood box coffins.

So they’re very small, so they can really only go in one at a time. And Evan goes from. And they’re right. It opens a door in the back and he goes through and then Harper goes through next. No problem. Then Mallory goes in and closes the door behind her, but the hatch doesn’t open instead a hole in the top of it opens and spiders are poured all overhead

skeletons 

Todd: masks. 

Craig: Shit motherfuckers bought the shit at party city, like two days ago. Look, these look like tarantulas and they are moving and she freaks out. And then somehow. The people on the other side, opened the door and pull her out. Or if the door opens and she stumbles out, they grab her and she’s freaking out and they’re like, no, no, it’s all fake now.

Okay. For the purposes of the movie, that’s fine. But I have eyes and I saw those spiders were moving. Were indeed. These were not. Yeah. These were not spirit. Halloween cheap spiders.

Which now I didn’t really start to question this until later, but ultimately I did question it, is there anything supernatural going on here? And I still don’t know. And ultimately I think that probably not, but I’m not sure the 

Todd: fact that all those spiders kind of disappeared was. I did think about that for a brief, a brief second, but no, I don’t.

I don’t think so. Yeah. No, I don’t, I don’t think anything supernatural was happening, even though a few of those, those effects or whatever seemed, I don’t know the way it played out or maybe we were seeing more of what’s in her imagination or whatever, but. 

Craig: That could be. 

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, no, I think everything in there was very real.

Craig: A, yeah, I know. I’ve, I’ve debated it with myself and, and I’ll the moment where I really started to question comes later and obviously we’ll get there after that room. The next room is a small tunnel that they have to crawl through. And, and there are times when. I don’t want people to look at my face, but there are times when I wish that we could show people things, because it’s a ton, it’s just a small, like crawl space entrance.

But the way that it’s prepared, the way that it’s painted with like, just hundreds of arrows, like spray painted and go in here or something like that, it’s very spooky. The whole thing is very spooky. It just seems like a really good haunted house. Like we’re talking like, okay. So I live in a small town and we have haunted houses and the people around here, my town is also a university town and the university does a haunted houses.

And these are young people who clearly, you know, really are into it and want to do a good job. And they, and they do, but we’re talking more along the lines of like universal studios, haunted Halloween nights, you know, like they look fantastic, 

Todd: a little too fantastic for a random dirt road. You know, she turned off on that only a few people are in line for it to be honest.

And that was the only other beef I have with it is that, you know, and 

Craig: ultimately like this place is really big and really complicated. There’s a point later where we see, um, schematics. Of how it’s all laid out and how everything is connected. And it’s not as though it’s impossible. Like if this is a big abandoned factory, there would be plenty of room to do this.

It’s just that normally people wouldn’t go to such lengths. 

Todd: It does call into question, all kinds of things about the backstory and the people who are behind it and all that, which I guess this is intentional, right? Like we’re supposed to. Well, this random Backwoods place that does, this seems like they’re the after awhile.

They’re. At least it seems to be there. The only people in there, you know, you go through a haunted house and things start to get backed up. And eventually you’re going through a long line and all that. And, and this, this haunted house is completely impractical in that for all these things to be pulled off, you know, To separate people or res you know, timing wise, you’d have to find ways to usher them through.

You’d have to, it’s not 

Craig: realistic in that way. And it seemed right. And it seems like there are four or five employees. Right. You know, isn’t unreasonable, but you’re absolutely right in real life. This, you know, we saw it in a headline. No, I’ll see, it’s crowded. There’s a huge long line. And even when you get in there, you’re in there with dozens of other people, and this would be reliant on them only allowing five or six people in at a time for a couple of hours.

Todd: Yeah. Relying on only five or six people coming into the parking lot. Only every couple of that. 

Craig: Well, maybe that’s why they only turn the sign off. Randomly happened to pull over in front of the 

Todd: plate. They’ve reset finally. So they turn the sign on. 

Craig: Um, so they, so they go in the tunnels. Harper sees the red robe guy from the bar crawling around in there with them, which is kind of spooky, but, uh, Harper and Evan get out, but Mallory doesn’t come out.

And then the red guy, um, meanwhile, meanwhile, the other three are in the very typical. I guess the body part room where you have to, usually at your grade school, you stick your hand in a cardboard box and you feel the grapes or the wet gummy worms or whatever it is. But this of course being very elaborate looks great, but it is still just that basic premise.

Stick your hand in this hole and feel something. And they do a Nathan. Gosh, I don’t know the other girl, the nurse girl, they do. And it’s all very typical stuff. Um, but the third girl Bailey puts her hand in and she reaches in all the way up to her shoulder and she can’t find anything. But when she pulls her hand out, she realizes that she’s lost Harper’s mom’s ring in there.

And, um, so she reaches back in, um, to. I find it. And Nathan reaches in the hole next to her to try to help her find it, but something grabs onto her. And there are also, I will totally forgive these jump scares because they’re realistic. These guys it’s Halloween and they’re trying to scare each other. So Nathan has already done the, oh, somebody got my arm.

Like he’s already done that a couple of times. So when Bailey does it. At first, they don’t take her seriously, but she’s like, I’m serious and it hurts. And they, they pull her out and she turns over her arm. And at first it looks normal. I assume this was CGI, but it looked very real. She turns her arm over and all of a sudden her arm starts to bleed from these.

Then cuts. And later we see behind the curtain and there are razorblades there. Somebody had taken razorblades and sliced her arm, but obviously at this point, they know, um, that, that something isn’t right. The devil guy seems to kind of force the other two who were with mal. To continue forward with, without her, everybody ends up being reunited except for Mallory.

And this is when they start to decide that they need to get out. 

Todd: Yeah. It’s, it’s the same thing we saw earlier, which is smart actually, you know, to kind of play the same thing for us again, but Shane. Again, the curtains open. There’s a scene playing behind them. It’s very similar to that previous one where there’s the same, which character, and she’s got her red hot poker.

They pull a body bag out and they unzip it and Mallory’s in there. And they’re a little more disturbed now because a it’s their friend and be unlike the previous girl, she’s not screaming and yelling for help, but Mallory’s unconscious and her wrists are. With a zip tie and this woman pulls they’ll poke her out and we’re expecting her to brand her face again, but suddenly it just impales her in the head with that poker and then the curtains close and it all happens so fast that.

Oh, my God. Uh, that was pretty shocking. I actually didn’t expect it to get that crazy so quickly and in that way, so yeah, that was great. I mean, it’s like, you know, w classic brilliant filmmaking, you know, set up a scene. And so then the second time you think, you know what to expect and then boom, something different happens.

Uh, and they freak out. Right? So now they know they got to get out. And then there’s this kind of silly bit where they’re trying to pick the lock on a door that looks like an alternate escape door. And one of the guys apparently says he can pick locks and then. The nurse girl happens to conveniently have Bobby pins in her hair.

And, but yeah. Anyway, I think isn’t it. Um, that other character comes in. How do they come across that one, dude? 

Craig: It’s around native. Yeah, it is. And I liked this part. There was that whole thing with, um, the poker going through her head. Now we know we’re watching a horror movie, but even though I knew, I know, I know what I’m trying to say is.

There is a part of my head thinking. Maybe this is just really good. 

Todd: They think they grabbed her. They said, Hey, play along. You know, we’re going to do this thing in front of your friends and we’re going to freak them out. They could have just done that. I felt the same way we, we 

Craig: saw we, because we saw up close the poker, go through.

Faith, but it was going away and the curtain, it was very quick. It was very quick. So I was, I believed that she was really dead, but if I were in that situation, I think that I would be more likely to think that they were just playing. Then then I really just saw someone murdered in front of me. 

Todd: You do tend to want to not believe that sort of thing.

Yeah, exactly. 

Craig: Right. They’re freaking out. They can’t get the door unlocked. So they decided to send Nathan forward to move forward in the. So see if he can find something to break the lock and he ends up in this room. That’s lined with ghosts. Now it looks like mannequins with, uh, sheets over their heads.

But again, we’ve seen this a million times and you’ve seen it a million times in haunted houses. At least one of those sheets has a real person under it. That’s going to jump out and scare you or move or chase you or something. And that is what happens. But after the ghost moves and like walks away from it.

He calls out for help and the ghost turns the lights on and it’s like, you say, you need help.

Yeah. Holy shit. She bleeding to your head. Ah, we gotta get her out. I’m sorry, this, this isn’t supposed to happen ever, man. We just want to know. Okay. I don’t need to talk to your manager. I don’t have a suit. I haven’t seen anything. And I thought that this was really cool because it made me think, you know, it’s, it’s just a haunted house.

They’re scared. Yeah. Um, there, there, there had been a bit where, uh, the nurse girl was reaching under that chain link fence to try to get the witches poker and just as she had grabbed it, her hand had gotten stomped. And so if this really was just a hundred. They’re clearly going too far. Like they they’re potentially hurting people, but I still thought it could be, you know, like a rogue 

Todd: employee or two, you know, 

Craig: something right.

And, um, he offers to help, but he doesn’t take off his mask. This is where we also get Harper’s backstory, where she said that she grew up in a haunted house. Her father abused her mother. She hasn’t been home in four years because she’s. Her dad, but she has this recurring dream of going home. Um, and hoping that her mother will open the door and assure her that her dad has gone and the house isn’t haunted anymore.

And when she says the house is haunted, she means by her dad, like she doesn’t mean it’s literally haunted. We get that little exposition. Um, but then the go, they all get back together and the ghost is with them and he’s super apologetic, like, oh my gosh. Yeah. We’re super extreme that they’re not supposed to get hurt.

Yeah. There’s still safety protocols. Safety is a big deal. So we’re going to get you out of here, but he never takes off his mask. And from the beginning, I thought that was super shady. If you were real, I understand the whole, not wanting to ruin the illusion, but the illusion is ruined, like, take your mask off, but he won’t.

Um, but he does have keys and he does open a door and they all run to an emergency exit that Harper had seen. But. By a wall, but to go says you, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s all a show. They’re like, oh yeah. Well then where’s our friend Mallory. And he’s like, she’s waiting outside. He’s like we, we pulled her aside and made her part of the show to freak you guys out.

But she’s just waiting outside. She’s probably wondering, what’s taking you so long. They ask his name and he says his name is Mitch, but he won’t give his last name. And he suggests to them that it would be quicker to move forward in the haunted house and get to the end that it would take longer to go back.

But he also says, I don’t care, do what you want go either way. And so they said that they would prefer to go back to the beginning, but to do that, they have to go back through that tunnel thing. And he says, you can only go one at a time because it’s rigged. If there’s too much weight in there, there’s a trap door.

That’s how we got Mallory. So you have to go one at a time. So. Tate. Evan says, I’m going to go first. Then ghost guy is going to go so I can keep an eye on him. Then Nathan then Bailey. Then the other two girls, Evan goes through, gets through ghost, goes through, gets through signals for Nathan to come in.

But as soon as Nathan comes in the ghost sky seals up the entrance slash exit that Nathan is heading towards. At which point, somebody. It starts trying to burst into the room that the girls are in and Harper is holding the door and she tells Bailey and the nurse to go in the, to go. And they’re like, we can’t both go.

We, you know, we’ll fall through or whatever. And she’s like, you have to. And so this, uh, the devil character bursts through both girls get into the tunnels, but Angela. It doesn’t get far enough in and he grabs her by the leg, pulls her out and puts a Pitchfork through her head. And at this point it ain’t a show.

Todd: No, without a doubt at this point, and this happens right in front of Bailey. Insane. And 

Craig: she stuck in there and then we don’t see her again for ever. And I knew that there was something going on because at this point, everybody else has separated. Nathan falls through the trap door in the tunnel. Evan gets outside, but the lock box with the phones is gone.

Um, and we see that the clown has it, like in this office, Evan is very creepily approached by the ghost outside. Um, And then this is the part where I was like, what is happening? A Harper runs away, but the devil. Chases her down into a room that she can’t get out of any takes off his mask. And what’s underneath his mask is far more horrifying than the mask itself.

Um, I wa that’s why I wish that there was behind the scenes stuff, because if this was makeup and prosthetics, it was amazing. 

Todd: You mean the tattoos and the. Yep. It is totally, it is totally makeup and prosthetics. I looked it up. Yeah. The actor, actually the actor who played this character, Damian who played the devil, the devil mask guy.

He was in the strangers and he was in the remake, the newest one of wrong turn. And actually in both of those movies, he’s got quite a bit of makeup effect on him to make him look pretty freaky. So he’s knows no stranger to this sort of thing apparently, but yeah, it looked great. Yeah. Awesome. And it’s totally prosthetics.

Craig: And that’s why I wondered if this was supposed to be in any way supernatural. Now I completely believe there are people who do modifications to their face and their bodies with, with see bikes 

coming, 

Todd: your heads and things like that. Right. Implant these things. Yeah. 

Craig: Yeah. It’s a real thing. And this looks real and eventually we find out that almost all of them are tattooed and, and have modifications in their.

And spikes and piercings and all kinds of crazy things. I don’t know if it was suggested that it was supernatural or if they were some kind of cult or if they just were tattoo and body modification enthusiastic. I don’t know, but it looks great and they’re clearly wicked. And at this point everything goes crazy and the ghost, uh, everybody takes off their mask.

Except for one, there’s a Skeletor type person that never takes off their mask. Um, but everybody else does, and they’re all like crazy modified and it looks fantastic. The ghost kills Evan. Um, and then. Uh, Nathan and Haley are getting chased around for a long time. Haley eventually gets to the end of the maze.

And it’s a room that ironically looks like a little girl’s bedroom. And of course there are all kinds of clues. This does feel very much like a escape room. There are all kinds of clues that she has to find, but she finds them all. And she ends up having to crawl under the bed where she gets this key to open the store, but the devil is coming in behind her.

And when she turns the key for the door, it sets into motion, this series of gears. And when the gears all lock in, it starts playing the Jack in the box music all around the Mulberry Bush. And when it gets to the pop goes, the weasel, the door explodes, and obviously a shotgun has been. On the other side of the door and shoots through it.

We see that she’s hit that. She’s okay. And so she falls to the floor and she starts crawling and the devil runs in and jumps on top of her and is trying to kill her. And she’s really smart. She had already stabbed him in the eyeball. Like again, it was a whole daddy issue thing. She was flashing back to her dad and her hiding under the bed, blah, blah, blah.

Conveniently. Yeah, she, so she pushes, she pushes her thumb into his, his already injured eye and pushes his him up because this Jack in the box music is going on repeat and every time it gets to that part, it fires, which I don’t understand. Cause that looked like a single shot shotguns. 

Todd: It couldn’t actually 

Craig: happen?

No, no, but she’s really smart. She pushes him up. His head gets blown off, but then she is so fucking stupid. She stands up and starts walking towards it while the countdown is happening. And like, as it gets to the part where the gun is supposed to virus, she like puts her hand up in front of you, like grow your hand is not going to stop that bullet.

Todd: But 

Craig: fortunately for her, I guess the single action shotgun after three or four rounds is now depleted. Nathan shows up and starts pulling her out. At some point, Nathan is able to get a hold of her phone. Like a Google maps texts to her abusive boyfriend who was the one in the red truck who’s already nearby.

Yeah. And so he he’s on his way in, they fight people, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Eventually they come to the vampire and the vampire is like, wait, wait, don’t hurt me. And he pulls off his mask and he’s not all weird. Yeah. And he’s like, I had no idea what I was getting into, you know, I just thought it was a job.

And then they, they started killing people and, uh, we’ll get out of here and I’ll take you to the cops and whatever. Um, but then he gets killed by one of the. The the abusive boyfriend gets in only to trigger that trap that we had seen set in the opening credits and get a bolt through the throat and then get sledgehammer to the head.

Like literally they should have cut that they should have cut the whole boyfriend thing. 

Todd: It was like all scat man Caruthers in the shining kind of moment, except not nearly as sophisticated. Right. Because at 

Craig: least with him, we cared about, you know, like he was a character we cared about. He had a role in the movie.

Yeah. This guy does not at all. And so he gets killed stupid. Nobody cares. They end up finding a hatch to get out. Harper is confronted by the witch, but she ends up killing the witch by smashing her head in the hatch door. Satisfying. Yeah, it was, it was good. I really enjoyed that. Until after them is the zombie and the zombie shoots Nathan.

But then Nathan is still able to kill him with his baseball bat. This drives me crazy. Nathan gets shot in the abdomen and then still has the strength and presence of mind to beat somebody to the baseball bat. That is not the way getting shot works. 

Todd: And then he can climb. By the way, yeah, 

Craig: a huge fence with the barbed wire top not to get morbid, but I had an uncle who was shot in the abdomen and was in the hospital for months before finally succumbing to his injuries and dying.

This is just not. And that way, and it happens in movies that way all the time. And I feel like it gives people a false sense of security around guns. No, if you get shot, you are in big trouble. Be careful with guns 

Todd: and now, you know, yeah. That’s our public service announcement on two guys in the chances 

Craig: they find.

Uh, the boyfriend’s truck, which is still running and they get in it and they drive away. The clown is the only one left. He sets the whole place on fire, which was the whole reason for the setup of the oil room, so that it could be burned very quickly and they get to the hospital and then. It’s like Harper goes home to her parents’ house.

It’s a recreation of the dream that she’s had several times and she opens the door and it’s her mom and her mom comes out and gives her a hug and it’s a beautiful ending. And then the club. The steps out from behind the mom and she wakes up in the hospital and it was a dream, but a nurse comes in and says, your friend is fine.

He’s in the room. Next door. He’s going to be fine. You’re going to be fine. We just need you to sign these releases. And upon hearing sign the releases, she remembers that. Filled out all of their personal information on those releases that the bad guys still have. And we see, we see the clown with those releases driving and he pulls up in front of Harper, his parents’ house, he bursts in and walks in, but he isn’t.

Stepping into a sticky trap, which Harper had gotten stuck in a sticky trap in the haunted house. And then the pop goes, the weasel music starts playing. And at the moment where, you know, pop goes, the weasel Harper shows up with a shotgun and says, let’s take off your mask and blows his head off. And that is the end of the 

movie.

Todd: I love how she had the presence of mind with him. I dunno a couple of hours, I guess, that she realized, but while he was driving to also get, like, I don’t know, like an MP3 of pop goes the weasel or whatever and make it right. Make it nice and ironic, but it was a very satisfying ending. It was satisfying.

So happy. And presumably everyone in that cult has been killed because that guy is the ringleader of the whole thing. At least that’s how he was portrayed. We didn’t really see anybody else and he burned the whole. Presumably to the ground. We don’t know any of this for sure, but I liked that bit of finality at the end, which we don’t always get the ironic, you know, usually in a horror movie, the ironic ending is, oh, maybe the bad guy will come back or, oh, maybe you never quite escaped or aha.

We’re setting you up for a sequel. And this one, the twist at the end was sort of like, ha ha ha. She got them back in the Nick of time at the end with his own. That was really nice. I really liked that 

Craig: ending well, and it reminds me it’s very Eli Roth. I feel like something very similar happens at the end of hostels.

Like I’m the main character in hostel is able to find the guy that paid, uh, kills him in a bathroom, like shoves his head in the toilet or something. So, yeah, I mean, it’s very apropos. I mean, I know Eli Ross didn’t direct this, but apropos of his type of stuff as is the whole movie. As is also the case with Eli Roth’s movies and the movies that he’s directed, except from the green Inferno, which I thought was a total turd.

But beyond that, I find his movies to be entertaining. They are brutal. And again, I know he didn’t direct this, but his influence is clearly there. Uh, ultimately. That this was a fun ride, you know, it was well-made it had interesting twists that I didn’t see coming. It had a really good set pieces. It had a totally awesome Halloween feel to it.

Um, I think especially, I mean, you could watch it whenever you want, but especially during the Halloween season, this is great. Put it on your list, give it a shot. Would you agree? 

Todd: Totally agree. And it made me want to go through haunted houses again. Uh, and this, it made me want to go through this haunted house, except for, you know, I don’t want to die aside from that, like this one.

A cool experience for Halloween. And so in that way, it was sorta like doing it. It was a really fun ride and I really liked the movie. 

Craig: Well, thank you for listening to another episode of two guys in the chainsaw. We hope that you are as ready as we are to enjoy this month. And, uh, we’re going to be back with a few, at least a few more Halloween themes episodes this month.

We’ve got some things in mind, but if you want to throw in a request real quick, we will certainly. And if we can’t get to it, this Halloween season, we’ll see what we can do throughout the year or next Halloween season. If you liked this episode as always, please feel free to share it on your social media or recommend us to a.

Just a Google Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast, you can find us all over the place and we’d love to hear from you, but until next time I’m Craig and I’m talking with Two Guys and the Chainsaw.