2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

We’ve been meaning to do this one for a while. In celebration of April Fool’s Day next week, here is another 80′ slasher film starring none other than Biff from Back to the Future. Stick around for an important announcement from us at the end of the podcast.

Episode 120, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Well, Craig, we’ve been doing this, 2 or 3 years now. Has it been 3?

Craig:  Oh, my God. I don’t know. It’s been a long time.

Todd:  Well, however long it’s been, we’ve gone this long without ever doing April Fools’ Day. And we just could not let that stand this year. And Every time it seems like you like we get we get like in the middle of april or we get to may or June and I’m thinking Oh Craig why did we miss april fools day? I I just I have an affection for this film and So we’re doing it this time yep. It’s a 1986 production We recently talked about frank minusco jr. Who produced the Friday 13th series and he produced this film as well he was looking for a little bit of a departure from the slasher movies he was famous for and this is in the same baileywick but it it’s slightly different than your average slasher little bit I had seen this movie once before and was pleasantly surprised by it this is one of those films that I don’t know about you but the the cover art is iconic Absolutely. You know, this is on every single rental shelf. I think it had a better life. It did pretty well actually in the theater, but I think it had an even better life on the VHS shelves in the rental stores than it than it did on its initial run.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean that that box art from the time I was a little kid, I remember seeing that box art. You’ve got kind of a table of I don’t even know. I mean, because it’s it’s in the background. That’s not what you pay attention to. Like, there’s a table of partygoers in the background or whatever. But in the foreground, there’s a girl standing facing the partygoers, and she’s got a braid that’s braided into a noose, and she’s got this big knife behind her back. And it’s just, I don’t know.  You know, in the eighties when I was a kid, I just thought it was like the coolest thing I’d ever seen. And for whatever reason, I don’t think I ever saw this when I was a kid. I think it wasn’t until I was an adult that I actually sat down and watch this, but I always remember that box art. It’s definitely iconic.

Todd:  Oh, same here. I’m surprised my buddies and I never picked this up because we pass by it all the time. I think we’re always interested in it but, didn’t see it until, oh shoot, probably 10 years ago. And I don’t know, Craig, I just I really liked this movie when I first saw it. It has a really cool twist in it, which we’ll get to later. So spoiler alert, if you’re interested in watching this movie, don’t listen to this podcast first. Yeah. For sure.  But then, also, I don’t know. It just has a charm. It has a charm that really gets to me. And and I wondered as I was watching it the second time if it would retain that charm even though I knew where it was going and I have to say I think I liked it even more the second time around. I really did. I don’t know if you like it as much as I do.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s I don’t know. I frankly, I don’t even remember it. Like, I remember that I had seen it, but I didn’t really remember what my feelings were about it. And watching it again this time around, I liked it and part of what’s fun of it is that it’s just a hodgepodge of these eighties actors that you’re gonna recognize from something. Like, there’s this whole group of they’re supposed to be, college age friends. I think, you know, like either near graduates or or recent graduates of college, and they all get together for this big hurrah, I guess. Many of them appeared in lots of other iconic eighties movies, and so you’re gonna recognize a lot of these faces and that’s fun.  And and there is a big twist at the end, which really distinguishes it from a lot of the other slashers of the era, because without the big twist, it would be, you know, very similar to many of the other, slashers of the day. But with the twist, it’s it’s different and and unique and and kind of fun. I don’t know that I like it as much as you do, but I I get where you’re coming from. It does have, kind of a distinct charm that the other slashers of the day didn’t have, and and for that I appreciate it at least.

Todd:  Well, I think that the thing that distinguishes it the most for me is that, you know, we usually start these out, especially you guys. Okay. So a bunch of assholes arrive at an island. But I have to say, like, these are cool people. I think what makes this compelling and what what probably what really saves it and keeps it for me anyway being compelling is it’s not a bunch of assholes. It’s just a bunch of college age people. Some of them have just graduated. At least they’re the right age.

We’re not seeing older Right. People playing teenagers. And, the first, I don’t know, 20: 30 minutes of the movie at least is just hanging out with them. You’ve got a huge cast of characters which makes it makes a little wieldy at the beginning because you don’t know who is who, and you can’t remember all their names. True. But when you say people that we recognize, maybe the most recognizable one that you’ll just kinda jump out at you when you first watch this Todd Wilson who plays Arch who also played Biff in the Back to the Future movies. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  And how many movies do we get to see with Biff in it? You know.

Craig:  And And he’s kinda cute and charming in this movie which is a departure from what we know him as. And and then there’s also Amy Steele who we just recently talked about. She was the final girl in, Friday 13th too. She plays Kit. And then, there’s Deborah Forman who plays Muffy. She was in a couple of things. She’s got kind of these icy Craig eyes, which is what I always remember her from. She’s she had larger roles, but I always remember her as the sexy girl from Real Genius, which is one of my favorite movies, from the eighties.  Oh. And then there are a couple of other guys too. The guy that played Rob, I think, Ken Allant. He was the lead in Just One of the Guys. Another great eighties movie. Like like like, it’s a terrible movie, but it’s so great and so eighties. Oh, that used

Todd:  to come on cable all the time, and I I used to watch it all the time. Deborah Goodrich is in this too, and she was also just one of the guys. Yep. Yep. Yeah. You’re right. None of these people none of them really. Maybe Thomas Wilson, he has a ton of credits to his name.  He’s been doing a lot of voice acting. He’s been

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  A lot of video games and things. But aside from him, there aren’t many of these people who went on to illustrious careers, but like Right. You said, you recognize them. They did a few things here and there, did some television work. What my understanding is, and I don’t know, I went and I read a bunch of interviews and things of the cast, is that they really had a good time making this.

Craig:  Well, yeah. I think I think I read that didn’t they get together, like, before they shot and they, you know, they like to spend a weekend together or something. Like, they really wanted to make it believable that these guys were all really friends. And that comes through, you know, when you say it’s not just a bunch of assholes. This this does seem like a group of people that could really be friends, that does come through. Like, I I really kinda got a big chill vibe from the first 30 minutes. And again, The Big Chill, one of my favorite movies from the eighties. Great movie.  This pales in comparison, but you get kind of the similar vibe that these really are people who are having fun together and who who could legitimately be friends and so that’s different. You don’t see that so often.

Todd:  And I think the other aspect of it too as it was described is that the movie takes place on an island. It’s an island owned by Muffy, the Mhmm. Dimmer form and plays Muffy. And it’s set up pretty early on from the beginning that she’s a pretty rich, well off person. At least her family’s really well off. And we’re gathering on the dock of a ferry, And apparently, this island is isolated. There’s only one ferry that goes to it, and it only goes there during the week, and then on the weekends, there’s no ferry access to it. So all these people are gonna be getting on this ferry, going to this party that Muffy is hosting, and they’re not gonna have ferry access for the rest of the weekend.  So it’s again, it’s it’s it’s sets up that classic Agatha Christie mystery atmosphere where all we’re all locked in a mansion, isolated, and and brought together at a house for a party, and there’s, like, a 1,000,000,000 of them.

Craig:  1 of the yeah. 1 of the characters even says that. I mean, there’s stuff that goes on the dock that we’ll need to talk about, but when they actually get there, it’s this big, you know, beautiful I don’t wanna say mansion, but, like, you know, a very wealthy Large house. Home. Yeah. Yeah. Large house on on this, island. They’re looking around, and one of the characters, I think it’s Rob, I don’t know, opens these big sliding doors, and it’s this big dining room, and the whole table is set, and the place settings are, you know, set up.  Little dolly.

Clip:  This is like Magatha Christie.

Craig:  I’m like, yes, Nan. Yes. It is. Thank you. It is just like Agatha Christie.

Todd:  Very pointy.

Craig:  And it does the whole movie plays out like that. I mean, it plays out just like an Agatha Christie novel. Like, was it, 10 Little Indians or or something like that? I think was the Agatha Christie novel, and it plays out very much

Todd:  like that. It’s practically the same plot in many ways. And, apparently, they stayed on this island together, and they shot it there. I mean, it’s really an island, and they actually shot it in a house on this island. Instead of, you know, normally you’d be in LA, you’d be shooting on stages or on the set, but everybody would go home or go to their hotels or whatever at night. Well, these guys hung out together even in the evenings. That added to that sense of camaraderie and stuff on the crew. So, anyway, I thought it was interesting how it started with what almost like every found footage movie starts.  Mhmm. Mhmm. It doesn’t go any further with it, but there’s a v h, you know, one of them, Chaz. He has a video recorder, and he is videotaping Nikki.

Clip:  Mhmm. Why don’t you tell us something, hey, about yourself?  Oh, alright. Something about myself. Yeah. I wanna work with handicapped children. My parents are my best friends. Oh, and I I start convent school next semester and I on the first day. April Fool.

Todd:  And others come and join them. You know, Arch comes and join them. Kit there’s a guy named Kit. There’s Skip or a gal named Kit, that’s Amy Steel. Skip, Rob, Buck, Harvey, Claire, all these people you find out don’t really know each other. They all go to the same college, I think, and they’re some of them know each other, but

Craig:  Yeah. Most of them know each other, but some of them are new. Like Buck was new and and Nate and Nan is new. Mhmm. And I don’t remember how they explained Buck’s involvement there, but Nan, Muffy met in her, like like, a drama class, like a costuming class, I think, which it it should be should be a clue, but ultimately doesn’t end up being like, it kinda feels like it kinda feels like a lost opportunity. Like, oh, well, you coulda used that, but okay. Whatever. Yeah.

Todd:  Well, she makes mention. She talks about Buffy, and and the one thing she knows is she’s such a great actress. And and and if you know what’s coming later, you know that that’s a subtle hint. I think that the dialogue here is really quite good, throughout the whole movie. I think it’s believable banter that college age people have. They’re all really easy going with each other, and they’re pretty fast and loose and free. For me anyway, right from the beginning, just these first 10 minutes, I just there’s not like, oh, this guy’s the dick. This guy is the the cool man.  This you know, there’s none of that. It’s just a bunch of pretty normal fun people. Does that make sense? No.

Craig:  It does. It does, and I agree. I mean, you know, there’s silly stuff going like, you know, they’re playing pranks on one another and they’re joking around because it’s around April Fools’ Day. There’s, you know, some flirting going on between the guys and the girls and it’s pretty overt and over the Todd, but that almost even kind of adds to the concept that they know each other and they’re comfortable with each other. So they can kinda get away with kind of like this almost aggressive sexual

Todd:  Kit and Rob are a couple, and it’s Nikki and Chaz. Right?

Craig:  Yes.

Todd:  Also a couple. So Nikki Nikki is a little I won’t say slutty, but she’s just a little more on that edge kinda girl. Chaz is the closest to the cool guy, that

Craig:  you’re gonna get. Right. Spiky hair, sunglasses, right?

Todd:  Kind of aggressive and whatnot and always, you know, joking around. And they get on this ferry and there’s a ferryman and everything kind of Todd grizzled ferryman guy, and he takes them over and they’re goofing off on this ferry, and I think it’s Arch and Skip Skip who are playing around, and they’re playing some game I didn’t quite understand. I think they were just chucking a switchblade or a knife.

Craig:  Well, the yeah. Like, they were throwing a knife in the ground. They said the game was named Stretch, I think. And so, like, I think that they, like, throw a a knife and it sticks in the ground, and they, like, they have to reach for it. And, like, whoever can stretch the farthest and reach for it without falling over wins. Oh, okay. But but then it gets ugly.

Clip:  They start arguing and causing

Todd:  a big scene, and Arch got the knife. And he finally he tosses it over to Skip who and he tosses it quite carelessly and quite forcefully, and it goes right into Skip’s stomach. And it’s pretty shocking, and Skip falls backwards and falls into the water, and everybody’s panicking, but it turns out it’s a prank.

Craig:  April fools. April fools. Yeah.

Todd:  And there’s gonna be a lot of this coming up. Right. As they’re, pulling the ferry into the dock, one of the guys has jumped into the water. Buck. The ferryman calls to Buck and is like, hey, get out, you know, so that you can tie it up and he’s like no I can do it from the water so all the kids are talking and whatnot in the meantime we keep cutting back to buck who’s waiting next to the ferry and as the ferry is approaching slight sidling up to the dock, and trying to grab the rope and toss it up, and he’s having trouble tossing it tossing it and the fairies getting closer. It’s clear that it’s gonna smash him into the dock, which it does. And he screams and there’s all this panic and as he kind of surfaces in the water, this whole side of his face is messed up. It’s like his whole eye has been taken out.

Craig:  Yeah, like he got squished between the dock post and the boat.

Todd:  And it’s it’s gross and and they’re all screaming and and they pull them out of the water and there’s I guess is it a cop on the island who has a boat?

Craig:  I can’t.

Todd:  I’m not

Craig:  I just kept right they keep calling him constable, so that’s what I

Todd:  told him. Constable Potter. Tom played by Tom Heaton, who I don’t really know, but apparently, he’s been in quite a few things. And, he died in January of

Craig:  this year. I didn’t know that.

Todd:  Yeah. Anyway, fun little trivia.

Craig:  It’s it’s kinda funny because it happened, and it’s pretty gruesome. Like, you know, the I I didn’t write down who did the effects, but whoever did them was was pretty Todd. You know, his his face is messed up and he’s screaming and he’s in pain, but, like, they literally throw him in a boat. Like, they throw him in this little speedboat, and then casts a shadow on, the weekend at least momentarily and especially for Skip because Skip kinda feels like he was the one that started this prank that got the guy in the water, and so he he feels bad. And so then he’s kinda mopey and drinky for the

Todd:  next half hour. Mopey and drinky. Now, one of them is actually, Muffy’s cousin. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Is it Skip? I think it was Skip.

Todd:  Yeah. You’re right. So Skip is actually reveals that he’s Muffy’s cousin, early on. Anyway, they don’t let that get them down for long.

Craig:  Not long. Yeah. They get over it. Yeah. They get over they didn’t know him very well anyway.

Todd:  It It doesn’t really matter. So as you said, they go into the house and they’re probing around and they see the table and all that. And, and then it becomes a nice little montage of friendship and, toasts around the table, and then it, you know, as they make the toast, it turns out they all have dribble glasses. Then they all kind of go off to their different rooms. This is so classic, you know? Like Yeah. So it’s it’s like Agatha Christie. It’s like every Honda House movie you’ve seen. It’s like Clue.  All these people just go off to their various rooms and get settled. And as they do, they just they discover all these different pranks. There’s a, an exploding cigar on one of them that he finds, eyes in a painting that look like they’re moving left and right until they lift the painting off. It’s one of those, Felix, the cat clocks behind it that’s going left and right. There’s a water tap that one of the girls turns on in her bathroom that sprays at her, a collapsing Craig, and and weird stuff with light switches. But then, there’s some kinda disturbing pranks as well. Arch opens up his medicine cabinet and there’s drug paraphernalia in there. And Nan, here, as she’s coming out of the shower, hears a baby Craig, and it seems to really bother her, and she goes to the wardrobe and opens it up, and there’s a tape recorder inside that’s playing a tape of a baby crying.  Mhmm. And later on, we find out that this is pretty pointed. This is a reference we find out later to an abortion that apparently she had.

Craig:  That that was kinda one of the things that bothered me about these gags is because, like, it seemed kind of pointed and, like, it was a big deal, and then it was just kind of a throwaway. Like, oh, sorry. By the end? Yeah. I know. Like, lighten up. I didn’t know you would be so upset about your abortion. And some other things that I didn’t even necessarily understand, like, Harvey finds all of these, articles in, like, his dresser drawers and behind cabinet doors about car accidents. And, like, it’s never really even explained what’s going on there.  And and Nikki finds, like, bondage sex gear in her room. Yeah. But it is. I mean, it’s so Agatha Christie. It’s so, like, how are these little things tied to each individual character? Like, what is their backstory? Yeah. But it but at the same time, it’s fun and, like, and it it is fun and and that’s the fun thing about the first half hour is that it really seems like it’s all in good fun. Like, at when they’re having the dinner party, Arch Archie sits in his Craig, and it’s a really cool chair that has trick legs that, like, he flips over in. And, like like you mentioned, Muffy gives them all champagne and they drink and it’s dribble glasses.  And so, like, initially, it’s just all in good fun. It’s good times. It’s pranks. It’s April Fools stuff. And, like, you’re really kind of proud of Muffy for, like, setting all this stuff up. Like, good for you. You are a really good April fools day host. And we had seen her, again, I I mentioned it just because I feel like the first time I saw it I didn’t really pay much attention, but watching it again, like, when you very very first see Muffy, even before anybody arrives, she’s setting stuff up and her maid’s like, can I help you? And she’s like, no no no.  I just gotta get everything set up. And, like, she’s messing with

Clip:  mannequins in the basement and stuff. And, like, there’s all these

Craig:  little things that if you know what’s going on, you can kinda piece together, you know, ah, I see what she’s doing. But so then, when things kinda start to take a turn for the more dangerous, then it’s a little bit more surprising and it gives the characters motivation to question, well, you know, is it’s it’s probably just a prank. Right? Mhmm. It’s probably, you know, it’s probably nothing. Don’t worry about it, which is is kinda believable.

Todd:  And us too because we know we’re watching a movie called April Fool’s Day.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  It’s worth pointing out too since you mentioned it that scene with Muffy, in the basement. At one point, she picks up a Jack in the Box, and she has this sort of flashback moment. And this is while the credits are rolling to, I guess, her childhood where this Jack in the Box had some significance to her. And so we get this really dreamy sequence where she’s alternately flashing back to that and turning the the knob on the music on the Jack in the Box. That comes into play later which is why we had to mention it.

Craig:  Well, and again but even that scene is kinda weird. I’m not really sure what it’s meant to signify because as she’s a kid, she, you know, turns this jack the box, and then when it pops out, it’s like this little monster. Like, it’s not like a it’s not like a fun cute jack in the box. It’s like the alien for alien pops out of it or something, but Yeah. Whatever. Anyway

Todd:  Yeah. Exactly. It almost is just a tie to the end or or

Craig:  or maybe just a setup that she has kind of a twisted humor.

Todd:  That’s how I took it. Then there’s just a series of things that happen. You know, they’re out playing soccer in the front yard and hanging out, and Nan’s reading, blah blah blah. She sees Molly go into the shed, and and that seems a little mysterious and

Craig:  Muffy. Muffy. Sorry. You’re really good with things.

Todd:  Oh my god. This is me and the names. And this is, like, 10 people. It’s almost impossible.

Craig:  It needs so many. It’s really hard.

Todd:  And I don’t remember care who’s who and how they’re related, you know, it just kinda Right.

Craig:  Doesn’t matter.

Todd:  Yeah. Skip goes into the shed for something. There’s a big shed on the ground.

Craig:  A boat house. Yeah.

Todd:  Boat house. Yeah. And and he steps inside, and he’s looking around, and then somebody grabs him from behind and pulls him into the shadows.

Craig:  And Only not before there’s a jump scare with the cat. And the only reason that I bring that up is because you said that the guy that produced this also produced, the Friday 13th movies. And I guess there are a couple of nods to Friday 13th part 2, which Amy Steel was in, and she’s in this movie too. And in the beginning of Friday 13th part 2, there’s a cat jump scare. So there’s the cat jump scare here. He’s attacked, but as will become a trend, you know, we kind of get a shot of them, you know, with a look of terror on their face, and then we kind of see them attack is the only word I can think of, but then it cuts away. We don’t actually see what happens to them. We just see them kind of get attacked and then ultimately we end up seeing the aftermath, which is kinda cool and kind of cool for a slasher movie too that there’s really not a whole lot of overt violence.  You just see kind of the beginning of the attack and then the aftermath, which, is a little bit different, but at the same time, I kind of appreciate it. And I read that because that was the case, this movie got a lot more late night TV time than a lot of the other slasher movies of the day because they didn’t have to edit it so much. There’s just really not a lot of blood and gore and that’s part of the reason why it became, you know, kind of such a late night popular movie.

Todd:  Did you ever catch us on TV?

Craig:  No, I didn’t. But I read that. So Yeah. And it was it it was on the Internet. So It wasn’t I

Todd:  know what you mean. It’s just like this is perfect USA up all night fair and to me not to for me and not to caught it on there to catch it on there was just, you know, so it’s mind blowing. So, anyway, yeah. And then later on, I’m I don’t think I’m skipping over too much here. Kit and Rob end up going into the shed, right, to make out. And as they’re laying down, they Kit Kit kinda turns her head to the side, and she can see through the floorboards to the water below, and who should float by underneath, but, Skip’s dead Todd. Skip’s pale gaunt body sliding under, which obviously freaks them out. They run outside and, try to look for it, but, you know, it’s it’s it’s not there.  And, that’s the first thing that really kinda freaks everybody out. You know, Skip has been missing, they’ve been commenting on it, and then these 2 think they’ve seen his body. At this point I think Nan confronts Muffy Muffy about the baby tape.

Craig:  Mhmm. And Hal overhears it. Now, and something else that I feel like we need to mention is that in the beginning, Muffy is this great hostess. They almost overdid it with her look, I think, but I think that they were doing that on purpose to try to have a clear distinction later on because she’s very WASPy in the beginning. Like, if you think about a movie from the eighties where they’re depicting rich eighties, like, business people in New York, like, that’s what she looks like. Like, shoulder pads and, like, you know, this very fancy outfit, and her hair is all perfect and quaffed. And, she just acts kind of waspy, like, she’s seductive, but very cool and you know, very well spoken. And then after the first night when really it’s all just kind of fun and games, they all get up in the morning and a few of them go down stairs, and Muffy’s in the kitchen and, like, she’s cooking breakfast, but she’s she looks very different.  Like, her hair is all frizzy, and she’s wearing, like, these mopey clothes. And Yeah. As soon as they come in, she’s like

Clip:  I’m not worried about those 2, Skip and Art. They’re probably playing some kind of stupid trick.

Craig:  So I just have down in my notes, Muffy is acting really weird. Like, what happened overnight that Muffy is all of a sudden so weird? Yeah. So so then when this stuff starts going down and like you said, Nan confronts her and she’s like, I didn’t think that was funny. How did you know? Did you know that one of his or like, did one of his fancy friends tell you or something? And they have this kind of terse exchange that Hal slash Harvey, overhears. But then that’s kind of the last we see of it until Kit goes to get some water for something and for some reason the water’s not working and Muffy says, well, it’s probably the water main. It breaks every once in a while. And they’re all like, oh, so we don’t have any water for the rest of the weekend? And she’s like, no, there’s still the well. So Nikki and Harvey go to the well.

Todd:  Yeah. But but before this, Arch was had been poking around the woods. I think he had been looking for, Skip, maybe? Skip.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. And, he he gets another nod to Friday 13th part 2. Yeah. Yeah. He gets caught in one of those weird traps that I have no idea how they even work to the point where I think they’re fake. You know? It’s like Right. Loop of rope on the ground that somehow, if you step in it, like, closes on your leg and lifts you in the air. Right.  I don’t think this is a real thing.

Craig:  I don’t know, but I loved that scene because it’s so funny because he’s walking around in the woods, and, like, then you just see, like, there’s this snake. Like, he keeps walking back and forth in the same pattern, like, right in front of this huge snake right in front of this huge snake that’s, like, like, rearing up to bite him. And, like, he’s just not like, he just doesn’t even see it. He walks in front of it, like, 4 times until he finally gets pulled up in the rope trap and, then

Todd:  Dangled in front of it.

Craig:  Then the snake is, like, pouncing at him. Like, every time he swings back towards it, it’s pouncing at him. But then some mysterious boots show up in the frame and kick the snake away. And again, he gets that very scared look on his face, and then it cuts away.

Todd:  I read, an interview with Tom Tom Wilson online about this scene, and he mentioned that, he was really nervous about the snake. And the snake wrangler, he comes up to him with his z’s, like, oh, it’s okay. It’s, you know, it’s not gonna bite you. And as soon as he opens the box with the snake, Todd the snake jumps out and bites the snake, wrangling his hand. Apparently, eventually, what they did is they put, like, a pane I did did the same thing with the cobra and Indiana Jones where they put a pane of glass between the snake and him. So it was, you know, lunging at him, but hitting the

Craig:  glass. It it was funny and and pretty scary because I’m scared of snakes.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  And he’s swinging back and forth and coming close to it and away from it. There’s not a lot you can do when you’re in that compromising position. And then like you said, Harvey and Nikki end up at this well to get water.

Craig:  So it’s it’s kinda goofy at first. Like, he lowers the bucket down and starts to bring it up, but it breaks. And he’s like, oh, the rope was rotten, whatever. And it’s so stupid. I don’t even know how it happens, but somehow she ends up like, he’s like, look down there and see if you can see it. So, like, she looks down there with her flashlight, and then somehow she drops her flashlight down there. Just Todd. Yeah.  Yeah. And they’re like, oh, no. What are we gonna do now?

Clip:  Well, look. There are little rounds leading down the side. So? So you better get a move on.

Craig:  Are you crazy?

Clip:  I don’t exactly relish the idea of spending the entire rest of the weekend without water.

Craig:  Well, I’m not going down there. So she starts crawling down there, and she ends up falling in, like, one of the rungs breaks or something, and she falls in. And he’s thinking about how to get her out, but then all of a sudden, Archie’s head floats up in the water. And she’s freaking out and, like, thrashing around, which then also causes Nan’s body to to rise to the top. So she’s down there with those Todd. And I thought for sure that Hal was gonna well, he he crawls down in there to to get her out. And I thought for sure somebody was just gonna close-up the well and just leave them there.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. It looks like

Craig:  it doesn’t. But, but no. Actually, in fact, they both get out and they, you know, go back up to the house. And at this point, they’ve seen enough dead bodies to know that they’re in trouble. So Yep. They call the

Todd:  constable. Call the constable on the phone.

Craig:  Which is which is another one of my fave like, at first, they can’t get through, but then eventually they do.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  And my favorite I say that all the time. My favorite part my favorite part of the movie is that the the guy gets off the phone with the constable. It’s Rob who’s on the phone with him. And it’s funny, because when he’s on the phone, he’s like, wait a minute. What? Muffy? Oh, okay. And then he hangs up and then he doesn’t say anything about it.

Todd:  No. I didn’t get that either.

Craig:  But anyway, he’s like, the constable says we should stay together. Just wait and he’s gonna come and he’ll fire off a flare, and then we should all go down to the dock together. Since the constable said we should all stay together, let’s all split up. So that’s what they do. They all split up

Todd:  to go, like, secure the house. Todd, not yeah. They’re going up, and they’re they’re locking windows and things like that. And, Kit ends up in the study, and she sees a picture on the desk, and it’s a picture of 2 little girls, you know. And this this is the point where if as long as you’re not really stupid, you know, watching this movie, you’re starting to put you’re starting to go down the road that the filmmakers want you to go down. There’s something odd about Muffy, in case you hadn’t noticed. And she interrupts her, says some creepy stuff. We find out that Harvey brought a gun so that adds some intrigue.  All of these, these are just such classic, you know, tropes really.

Craig:  Yeah. And and there’s a moment when everybody is converged except for Muffy, and they start talking about how weird she’s acting and how she’s wearing different clothes. And, like, Nikki’s like, did you see her shoes? They’re like nurses’ shoes. What’s up with that? And they’re like, she’s acting really weird. And I don’t know. One of them says something pretty not nice about her. Kit’s like, do you understand what you’re saying? You’re saying that one of our best friends has brought us here Todd and then Muffy just kind of appears out of the darkness like she’s heard all of this. She’s like, I’m going upstairs and they’re like, we’re supposed to stay together and she’s like, this is my home.  I’m going to my room. And then they’re all like, okay. Well, that sounds like a good idea.

Todd:  Let’s just all go to our rooms. Do it.

Craig:  And and so they so they all go up to their rooms, and I feel like Muffy follows Kit or somehow they end up together.

Clip:  I just came in to make sure that everything was secure and Todd lock those windows. Good idea. Sometimes, with the tides, it could take somebody all night to get here from the mainland. And even then sometimes, they don’t make it.

Craig:  Which I thought was hilarious

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Because when they made the trip from the dock to the island in the beginning of the movie, it took less than 5 minutes.

Todd:  Oh, yeah. Like like like you could almost toss a stone from the dock to the island. Like, you could see it. It seems that close.

Craig:  Like, in that beginning scene, Nikki, like, takes off her clothes to sunbathe and she has them off for, like, 1 minute before she has to put them back on because they’re there, like, but apparently at night, the tides are crazy. But meanwhile, like, Kit and Rob at some point are looking out like over the bay like watching for the for the boat, and, like, it’s totally calm. Like, nothing is

Todd:  different at all. Oh, man. Anyway, Nikki and Chaz, they argue, and, you know, they’re goofing off in the bedroom, but but they have fight. He is playing with her, and he’s putting on the different masks or whatever that they found, the s and m, like, leather mask or whatnot that that he has, and, he puts it on and flops down on the bed, and she leaves. And then she comes back, and he’s just laying there motionless, but he has his hands, like, folded over his crotch. Yeah. And she’s like, oh, cut it out. And she’s sitting next to him.  And this is a pretty creepy cool scene, I thought, because we know what’s going on. Like, he’s completely motionless, but she’s putting her shoes on. And that takes her a while to realize that he’s not moving. And then she’s like, come on. What’s going on? And, she pushes his hands away, and I guess is his dick missing?

Craig:  Yeah. I think that’s what it’s supposed to be. It looks weird. It almost looks like there’s, like, a big burn hole, like, in his Yeah. Crotchal area, but I think it’s supposed to be that his dick is cut

Todd:  off. Okay. And she freaks out and and then the closet door opens. And, again, it’s another one of those moments where we see from the the killer’s perspective towards her. Her eyes get wide, and she looks at the closet, and then it cuts away. And then, in the meantime, Kit and Rob are perusing around. And Rob Rob this is kinda stupid. Rob’s, like, I’m gonna go to the attic.  And and kids, like, why? And he says, so I can get a better view of when the constable comes. Okay. So he decides to go to the attic and she follows him, and when they’re up in the attic they find these dolls set up. Like, one sitting in a bowl just like, one and then then there’s a just a head floating in there. I guess it’s like supposed to be the, you know, representing the well or whatever. I don’t know. They’re like, look at it and they’re like, well, this is weird.

Craig:  And we find out that the constable robbed warm Todd, excuse me, the constable warned Rob about Muffy. He said, you know, don’t don’t trust her and is it at that point that they find a let- no, it’s later. It’s later that they find a letter, but we know that that the constable said don’t trust her for whatever reason. And I was kind of confused about those dolls. I thought that it was supposed to be all of them, but then the last ones that she picked up looked like a couple and they were all bloody in bed. Mhmm. Was that supposed to be Chaz and Nikki? I don’t know.

Todd:  Yeah, I think so.

Craig:  I think it was just a plot device and it made sense. And again, very Agatha Christie, you know, just these kind of clues. But yeah, so anyway, they’re still looking around.

Todd:  And they they end up going back downstairs and they find the bodies in the bed or they see blood all over the bed, I guess. And, then they stumble around. It’s it’s that classic, oh my gosh, here’s some Todd, and then they run to Muffy’s room, and they can’t get in. And when they open the door, there’s, what’s his name hanging in there? Harvey. Harvey. So then they’re like, we gotta get out of here, and they run out to the boat. And it’s when they get into the boat, that they find this letter. Right.  It’s just so funny, you know, they get there. I guess there’s no key, so they can’t quite go. But in their panic, then they Todd to to read this letter.

Clip:  Pursuant for our previous communications, please be advised that the patient in the discussion is still not been found in return to custody, is now believed to be attempting to return to a home in your jurisdiction. If encountered, exercise extreme caution and notify some new Miss Saint John has been a patient here for 3 years and is still considered incorrigibly and stable and extremely dangerous.  Miss Saint John, Muffy hasn’t been in an institution for 3 years. She’s been at Vassar.

Craig:  Hilarious. That’s so funny.

Todd:  There are a lot of great lines in this movie, I have to say. So many funny little things. But, I mean, at this point, my gosh, you know, you gotta you gotta be putting 2 and 2 together that Muffy has a twin. Right. Right? And, they look up at the house and they’re like, the doors are all closed. But they look down at the window and they say, Ah, the wind but the, you know, the window to the basement is propped open. That’s how we’re gonna get inside. And if you’ve been paying attention, earlier on, you would have seen that one of the first things Muffy was doing when she was downstairs was propping open the window to the basement.  Right. So, anyway, she they they crawl into the basement, and they have flashlights, and they see a blood trail on the floor, And it and it leads up to an area where on the wall, there is a height chart. And there’s on one side, it says Muffy, and on the other side, it says Buffy. And they’re both the same height all the way up. Right. Exactly. It’s funny. It’s like where the where the where the writer’s sitting around thinking, now what visual representation of identical twins could we present? I know a height chart.  So and and then they look up in that painting that was in their room that had the eye holes and is there, but their eyes behind it, and they go up and they pull it off the wall, and sure enough behind it is the head of Muffy, which falls falls down into her hands, and she screams and drops it, And at that point, they get pursued by Muffy. Or Buffy? Or Buffy. Yeah. Who is it, right? Must be Buffy. So, yep, they run around and they run into the kitchen. And this is a really good scene. I remember, especially when I first saw it, this this scene really freaked me out. Buffy is at the door, pounding on it and she’s inserting her knife in the crack and it’s jabbing through.  In the meantime, they’re in the kitchen. They’re they’re going through all of the the thing. They’re looking for knives or anything they can use, and they can’t. And Muffy’s like, Muffy’s like right there. And Rob ends up locking himself in the pantry. Accidentally, right? Yeah. So he’s pounding on the door. Hey, let me out, Kit.  Let me out. But but buff Buffy is coming through the the kitchen door, and so, Muffy Kit runs into the the dining room. And this is I mean, it’s a pretty standoffish scene. She’s got this big nasty looking knife and she’s coming at her and she just looks crazy.

Craig:  Yeah. She’s scary. Her hair is all frizzy and, like, she’s got the crazy eyes. And this knife is huge. It’s like a 12 inch blade knife, a little bit. She’s just kind of menacing. Like, they like they they kind of dance around the table for a while and then, Buffy gets up on the table and like, I don’t know really why Kit doesn’t just run Run. Somewhere.  She’s got

Todd:  her kind of backed up against that sliding door. I don’t think there’s anywhere else in the room for her to run, to be fair. The I think that sliding doors that lead into there were the only other exit unless she tried to leap out a window or something.

Craig:  Okay. Alright.

Todd:  But, yeah, she does. It’s that classic slowly backing away from the killer, which you should never do. You know. Right. You should really just run. She swings, you know, pulls open the doors to come through the other side, and it’s just so shocking. It’s it’s so surreal. She comes into the room and there is everybody else, like everybody who was dead.  Just chilling. Just chilling, standing around silently, like, quietly chatting with each other. Nikki is there reading her Cosmo. They they have drinks. And it’s just so weird. It’s it it just jolts you.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  And, of course, Kit stops at her tracks from behind. Muffy just stands there and lowers her knife and it turns out the whole thing was a big joke.

Craig:  It was all a big joke and it Oh Todd, it’s so funny. And then, I also love that now, okay, the first time that I watched this, for some reason going into it this time, I had it in my mind that everybody was in on it except for Kit. Like, I had it in my mind that everybody was just playing this big joke on Kit, and that’s not true. No. I I like in this moment when we know that it’s a joke and it’s dawning on Kit that it’s a joke, even though she’s pissed off about it, poor Rob is still, like, back here in the pantry and he’s he’s pounding on the door like, kid, I love you. And then Buck, from the very beginning of the movie, the guy that got smashed by the boat, Buck, like, grabs him and he starts screaming like a girl, like like he’s terrified and Buck, like, peels what turns out to be a prosthetic, that injury, off of his face and slaps it on his face and then pushes him through the door.

Todd:  And he just keeps screaming and running through the house with this prosthetic gutted face. Like, it still hasn’t dawned on him what’s going on.

Craig:  It’s really funny as it turns out. Okay. So, Muffy then explains this, and it’s a little bit like, alright. Let’s take a minute to explain the whole plot of the movie. But it goes by pretty quick, so it’s not that big a deal.

Clip:  It’s a script for weekend special. It’s gonna help me keep the house. Look. Next month, I get the house as part of my mother’s inheritance. It’s true. But only if I could show my father that it could carry itself with, taxes and expenses and all. However, the way she’s gonna sell it to the family. So I decided to turn it into a country inn.  But not just stuffy, old, run of the mill country inn. One that specializes in offering a once in a lifetime who done it weekend.

Craig:  So this was her test run for that and nobody who was there knew what was going on until they got killed except for Buck. Buck is her friend who just happens to be clearly an amazing makeup artist and the boatman was in on it. He was just playing the creepy old boat guy. He is the ferryman, but Skip, who they told everybody or who she told everybody was her cousin is actually her brother. And he even wasn’t in on it fully. He kinda knew what was going on, but wasn’t in on a 100%. So like this whole thing was a plan. It was a setup.  It’s funny. Kit and Rob are pissed about it for a second, but then they get over it and then they have a huge party.

Todd:  They’re spraying champagne all over each other and everybody’s just getting wasted.

Craig:  It’s a it’s a really fun scene and, like, the the song mama told me not to come is playing in the background. And, like, they’re they’re, like, pouring bottles of champagne over Muffy’s head and, like, they’re all having a great time. It’s and and they’re all playing with the shoving the champagne bottles into the prosthetic Muffy’s head. Like, it’s it’s really a it lasts probably all of a minute, but it’s really a fun Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Fun scene. It is. I read about this scene too. You know, the the cinematographer on this movie, which, by the way, looks beautiful. Like, the movie

Craig:  It does look great.

Todd:  Is is a gorgeous, gorgeous film. The cinematographer on this movie is, Charles Minsky, and he is a very, very accomplished cinematographer. This was actually his only his second movie, but the director said that the stuff that he was saying on the set and the suggestions he was making to the lighting guys and and all this stuff was stuff that this director then used forever after that. And he said on subsequent movies, he would make similar suggestions, you know, based on what he learned from this guy, from this movie to other people, and they’d be like, wowed. I’m like, oh, wow. Thanks. That’s really, really good. But he went on he went on to do Pretty Woman, Dutch.

Craig:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. Just, a lot of these movies, up to now, like, Almost Famous, You, Me, and Dupree.

Craig:  Oh my Todd. Almost Famous is an amazing movie. Yeah, right?

Todd:  That’s awesome. Very cool. Anyway, he was say he was saying during the scene, one of his ideas was we gotta go handheld and just get in the middle of this party, which is why it it kinda has that tone, that wild raucous Todd, because the camera’s just in there and it’s suddenly handheld spinning around in there and he said that the crew was a little nervous about it because they’re just spraying the champagne everywhere. And if the camera got wet, like, they’d have to send it back to the rental house and everything, and they just have to pay for it, but they were willing to do it to get the shot, and it and it worked out really well.

Craig:  It did. It’s fun. And and I I wasn’t even really paying attention, but as soon as you said handheld, yeah. I mean, obviously it is. And and that kind of makes you as the viewer feel like you’re there, you know? Like it it seems like, you know, you’re part of the party. It was it’s fun. It was a fun scene. Yeah.  And then so it leads then into the final scene where a very drunk Muffy, goes up to her room and there’s like a noose hanging on the other side of her door and she pulls it down like it’s clearly just a gag or whatever. But then she sees a gift on her bed and she opens it up and it’s the jack in the box again and she spins it right up until it should pop out and then she puts it aside. But then apparently she decides she wants it to pop out, so she grabs it again and and spins it. And I don’t remember if it pops out or not, but the point is, like, right when it should, Nan appears behind her and grabs her hair and pulls it back and slits her throat. And there’s all this blood and Muffy is freaking out, but then Muffy realizes that she’s not actually injured and, Nan comes, like, around her shoulder and shows her that it’s a fake knife and fake blood and to joke. The end end of movie. Which is, you know, kind of silly, but in keeping with the rest of the movie. What I didn’t know until today when I was reading about the movie is that there was an entire there was a whole other act Yeah.  Filmed. Like, 20 minutes long. Right. For the end of this movie that they ended up not using. And I don’t know. I, like, I don’t even know it. Can you find it someplace? I don’t

Todd:  think they said most of it’s lost, and no, you can’t really find it. I mean, the point of it, I think, was that then they all all the people left the island back on the ferry, but then they secretly looped back around and played a final trick on Molly. And I think there are a couple different versions of that. In 2 seconds. But, yeah, and and then there are a couple different versions of that too. There’s a version of that where it’s kind of benign, kinda like this ending where they play this joke on her, and it’s all funny. And then there’s even another weird apparently version that was the original version where Skip ends up getting killed in this

Craig:  prank. See, and I thought that I read that Skip kinda, like, lost it and then killed Muffy. Right?

Clip:  Oh,

Todd:  he killed her. I was thinking he lost it, and they and in the scuffle, he got killed. I don’t know. But, yeah, what a weird way to end it. It would just be the thing about the the ending that is there that I really like that I really like is that Nan is the one is the only one here who’s really been pained, you know, because Yeah. And Muffy even, like, laughs it off, which is almost like I twisted her back Todd. And she’s, like, talking with the group at the end. She’s like, I’m really sorry about all the jokes I played.  Clearly, some of them just went a little too far, and Nan just kinda gives her a look. But anyway

Clip:  Come on.

Craig:  Right. And that’s it. Like, oops. Sorry. God. Todd anyone would kind of have

Todd:  a reason to come back and actually kill her at the end, not that that’s an excuse. But, you know, in the in the in the realm of the movie, it would be Nan. And so Right. It makes sense, but then it’s nice because it’s still in keeping with the tone of the film that, uh-huh, it’s a final joke. But we are kind of on edge because we still don’t really know how it’s gonna turn out. And Sure. There’s always that moment at the, again, at the end of a slasher film, and I think this is really where the screenwriter does a great job because they’re they’re alternately they’re parodying slasher films in a way. They’re parodying Agatha Christie kinda movies in a way.  And with this ending tacked on, you’re really expecting, in many ways, the same thing as, like, at the end of Friday 13th, where there’s gonna be some actual kill or something that that that sets it up for a sequel, you know, or tells you, oh, no, the things aren’t as good as you think they were, and then ends it. It doesn’t end up being that, but I don’t know about you. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for something terrible to happen to her at the end. Sure. Sure. And up until she reveals that knife is a fake, you know, you got me hook, line, and sinker.

Craig:  Well and you’re you’re kind of waiting for it because in a way, she kind of deserves it. That was a really mean trick. Like like,

Todd:  you know,

Craig:  when she explained when she’s explaining that it’s gonna be this murder mystery thing, they’re they’re, like, are you crazy? This is dangerous. And she’s, like, well, obviously, when I do it in real life, the stakes won’t be as high and the people will know. Well, like, yeah. I mean, that’s when you go to one of those murder mystery things, you know what you’re getting into. You don’t just trick your friends into thinking that people are dead. Like that’s mean. Like you are a horrible person.

Todd:  Well, yeah. Todd not only that but she’s putting people in actual peril.

Craig:  Right. And she brush she brushes that off too because somebody says that, like, you know, we were in actual danger. And she’s like, no. No. I made sure that you weren’t except for I didn’t know that Harvey had a gun and except for I didn’t know that snake would be there. I mean, like, I didn’t mean for anybody to get hurt. Oh, well, in that case fine.

Todd:  It’s it’s a movie. It’s also improbable anyway. I mean, if you look back at it, one of the first things I was thinking about this time around, because I knew, you know, the ending Yeah. Was how in the hell does Buck in the water dive underneath and

Clip:  put on

Craig:  her amazing put on a set.

Todd:  Put on some prosthetic and come back up again in the course of, like, 3 seconds. This is a prosthetic the guy’s gotta peel off his face. There’s there’s no way. And and all of these other things are just you know, again, it’s one of these deals where really? So you happen to, bet on the fact that Arch was gonna walk in that exact same spot in the woods where you’d set a trap Mhmm. Or, that Harvey and Nikki were gonna have to descend into the well because she tossed her flashlight in, or they weren’t just gonna give up getting you know? So many of these things are just, convenient. Or or the the one that’s gonna lock himself in the pantry, you know. Right. But, you know, it’s a movie.

Craig:  So One thing that I will say for it though is that the, effects, the prosthetics and the makeup are actually really Todd. And so, you know, okay. So there’s like bodies in the water in the well and then at some point Kit finds, Muffy’s head or whatever. And yeah, when you’re looking at it in the movie, you can tell that it’s a prosthetic. You totally forgive it because it’s a movie. It’s the eighties, whatever. But they’re good enough that I can almost believe that if I were in those people’s position, I might believe it.

Clip:  Oh yeah.

Craig:  Like, if I was in that well, if I was in that well and that head and that body had come popping up, heck yes. I would have been freaking out and thinking that was real and trying to get the freak out. So that says something for the people who did the effects and makeup and prosthetics. I I thought it was Todd. And you know, overall, you know, again, I miss the days, Todd, when you and I lived in the same place and we could sit together and and drink a couple of beers and watch a movie and then talk about it right after. Because now I sit in my living room, sad and alone. You and me both, buddy. And watch and watch these movies on my computer.  And, like, it’s just not the same. You gotta at

Todd:  least hook it up Todd the TV, you know.

Craig:  I know. I know. But, like, I think that if you sit and watch this movie with some friends, it’s a really fun movie. And and I think that, people who enjoy slashers, people who enjoy horror, eighties movies, whatever. You know, it’s it’s a fun movie. It’s it’s worth giving a shot. Is it a great movie? No. Is it better than a lot of the slashers that came out of the eighties? Oh, yeah.  Way better than a lot of them. I enjoyed it and it’s it’s, frankly, it’s been more fun talking about it with you than it was watching it, but it was, I liked it. It’s good. It’s it’s worth a shot.

Todd:  I don’t know. You know, like, for me even and I think this harkens back. First of all, I totally agree with you. Would have been so much more fun to watch this in person with you. But there is also you know my wife and son are visiting the states right now and so I’m here alone And I put this movie on the big screen, and I just I had to pause it after the first 5 minutes because I was just getting this vibe back to my childhood where I would stay up late on a Saturday night, just

Clip:  me Yeah.

Todd:  Laying down on the sofa under a blanket, popping some popcorn or something, and watching USA up all night. And this was like that movie, you know, this was that kind of movie. It just it was fun. I like spending time with the characters. I thought it was beautifully filmed. It just the daylight scenes, everything just gives you this warm feeling, and there’s just such a jokiness to it that really works. You know. The jokes aren’t cheesy and cool.  Some of them are, but most of them are just they’re just clever and fun, you know. It’s it’s definitely a cut above, I think, a lot of these comedies that you see, that are more groaners from these parts, and it manages to touch on all these different elements and make a pretty unique film. I mean, it didn’t have to be this unique, this high concept, but it really works. And I’m actually surprised. I guess there’s a remake. Right? Somebody did a remake or No.

Craig:  No. No. They they they made another movie. I think it was in 2,008. I don’t quote me on that, but I think it was in 2008 with the same title, but it was not a remake

Todd:  of this movie.

Craig:  I don’t think I don’t think that there has been a remake.

Todd:  Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know if a remake’s necessary really, but,

Craig:  No. I mean, I don’t know. It’s a fun premise. So Yeah. I mean, if they were if they were gonna do a remake, you know, kinda maybe keep some of the same elements, but do something different with it. But it’s a really it’s a clever idea. And it holds up, like, as

Todd:  a movie, except for a couple of the outfits. This could have been shot today. I mean, the fact that nobody has cell phones is the only other thing, but it it there’s nothing dated really about it, I think. Fun movie. I really enjoyed it.

Craig:  Me too.

Todd:  Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this one, please share it with a friend. I’m sad to say that we do have some bad news for you. Our loyal listeners, we have been going together for this long. But, quite frankly, as we might have alluded to here, as you could hear, we’ve, I don’t know. We’re just not quite the same when we can’t get together anymore.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  And so this will actually be our final episode. I’m sorry, guys. We feel bad. Yeah. It’s just we’ve been trying to make it work, but, you know, life gets in the way. So April fools.

Craig:  Poor you. We’re not going anywhere. You’re not getting rid of us that easy.

Todd:  No way. You kidding me? Next month, we have a whole theme for you, and it’s don’t. Don’t. Please, stay right where you’re at. Please keep downloading our episodes. Please keep checking us out on Facebook. Please keep sharing us with your friends. We love having new listeners.  Until next time. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

How did we ever miss this one? The Sam Raimi team of misfits gathers together in 1989 to add to the growing pile of middling 80’s slasher films, this one surrounding the night crew in a supermarket that is too small for its own good. Sam and Ted Raimi, Martin Sheen’s daughter, and even Bruce Campbell all make appearances, with effects by The Walking Dead goremeister Greg Nicotero.

Episode 119, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Today’s film, I happened upon online. I, was reading an article on a favorite site of mine that deals with eighties nostalgia, and this guy likes to write about things like, old action figures and breakfast cereals. And, he was referencing a movie that I had never heard of, and it turned out Craig had never heard of either called Intruder. And the more he talked about it, the more I got interested in him. It is a 1989 slasher film, and it turns out to have a considerable amount of people that we know and love involved in it.  True. But the film itself seems to have passed into a bit of obscurity maybe for good reason. So Craig, you’d never heard of this before either. Right?

Craig:  No. No. I’ve never heard of it, and that’s really I don’t know. It seems bizarre to me because I try to keep up on these things, but it was it was completely unknown to me before this.

Todd:  Yet, the director is, Scott Spiegel, and the writer is Lawrence Bender. Scott Spiegel, has been acting a number of movies. He is a friend of Sam Raimi’s. He’s, directed quite a few horror movies. He he directed Hostel part 3. Let’s put it that way. Not a whole lot. Has a lot of acting credits, to his name.  But Lawrence Bender is a pretty famous producer. Lawrence Bender has produced most of Quentin Tarantino’s stuff. Good Will Hunting, From Dusk till Dawn, Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, you know, all the Kill Bill movies and all of these things. An Inconvenient Truth, he produced that. This was his very first producing job, and it I don’t think this skyrocketed him into anything, but I think it was a Reservoir Dogs with Quentin Tarantino that that got him going along that run. But all of these people are basically friends of Sam Raimi. I mean, almost everybody involved in this movie in one way or another. In fact, Sam Raimi and his brother Ivan have roles in the film.  It’s another one of these productions. We even see a little bit of Bruce Campbell at the very end, which I wasn’t expecting because, I guess, I didn’t pay much attention to the credits.

Clip:  And I was really pleased to see him pop in there at the

Craig:  very end. Did you say Ivan? Isn’t it Ted Ramey?

Todd:  You’re right. Ted Ramey. Ivan Ramey’s a whole other guy. You’re right. Ted Raimi was produce Joe. Yeah. Produce Joe. Oh my gosh.  What a movie. This you know, I’m really shocked that we hadn’t heard of this movie before quite honestly. Because it really has because of all the people involved and it’s a pretty standard slasher film. I mean, it’s definitely well filmed and the acting is kind of here and kind of there. But the writing is just terrible, and it does plot along a little bit. I don’t know. I You know, my feeling about this movie is I enjoyed it, a lot more than I suspect you did, Craig. Am I right?

Craig:  Yeah. It’s funny because you said something, you you told me not to look into it before I watched it, so I didn’t. And and the reason that you said don’t look into it too much is because the VHS box cover art and even the trailer apparently reveal who the killer is, and that’s, like, the big mystery of the whole movie. I have no idea what they were thinking with their marketing because it really spoils the whole thing if you see the box cover art or if you watch the trailer. Okay. So I watched it and then I texted you and said, wow, there’s a reason that we have never heard of this. And then I started looking around online and it’s got almost entirely really favorable reviews It does. Both from both critics and fans.  Like, I kept reading things like it’s one of the last great slashers of the eighties and I I don’t get it. I know. I honestly don’t

Todd:  get it either. It doesn’t work very well.

Craig:  No. I mean, I I don’t know. I mean, I guess the concept is kind of fun. I mean, it’s it was originally titled The Night Crew, I think. Yeah, The Night Craig. And that’s what it’s about. It’s about this night crew of grocery store workers who work in a grocery store that is not a 24 hour grocery store. It closes at night and they have to stay at night and, like, stock the shelves and stuff.  And so once closing time comes, then people start getting hack and slashed. And now I read various accounts of this. One of the accounts I read said they filmed it in a functional grocery store and they filmed it after hours in this functional grocery store. The other account that I read is that it was an abandoned grocery store that they had to stock themselves and that they went through a company that specialized in damaged goods, damaged food goods, and they bought all of these damaged goods and and Todd the shelves and filmed it themselves. I don’t know which of those is true. Did What did what did you hear?

Todd:  Yeah. I kept hearing more about the about the stock the shelves with the, expired goods than anything else.

Craig:  Well, anyway, the the grocery store itself is I mean, it’s it’s just kind of a fun setting, I think, really only because it’s so nostalgic. Like, all of the products on the shelves are legit products that you’re familiar with seeing on your grocery store shelves. And Yeah. Because it was, you know, the eighties, you know, I remember the frosted flake flakes box from the eighties. You know, like

Clip:  so it it was kind of fun to

Craig:  see all these old products from my childhood, and and that part of it was cool.

Todd:  But As dumb as it sounds, that was a bit of a joy in the movie. Like, I remember seeing, like, obscure cereals in the background. Like, I don’t know why, but it seems like the most shots we get of products happen to be in the cereal aisle. And I saw one called ice cream cone cereal and a few others. Yeah. I distinctly remember getting, you know. It was really kinda cool.

Craig:  Yeah. And and so that part of it is fun. But then really, once the store closes it’s I don’t know. I mean, I can talk about the characters and we will or whatever, but really what it comes down to is the grocery store closes for the night. The co owners bring all the crew together and say Well,

Clip:  Bill and I, well, we’ve agreed to sell the store to the city and your jobs will end about the first of next month. However, however, look, Bill and I want you all to know we appreciate the years that you’ve been loyal to  us and  you’ll find a nice bonus check from us.  Don’t need it.  It’s a token of our appreciation.  And and if any of you kids need any kind of a recommendation, you know, we’ll give you the best best one in

Todd:  the world. Right.

Craig:  But we need you here tonight to, go around and mark down all this stuff 50% in to prepare for closing. And then that happens and then I guess the main character, her name is Jen, she’s played by Elizabeth Cox who I don’t really recognize. Apparently, she was in Night of the Creeps, which we’ve watched, but I didn’t recognize her from that. Her ex boyfriend, Craig, shows up, and he’s, you know, this typical eighties bad boy, you know, looks like he would ride a motorcycle. Black leather jacket. Black leather jacket, kinda spiky hair, 5 o’clock shadow, blue jeans. He shows up and he’s menacing.

Clip:  Craig, I’m sorry about what happened. I really am. But as far as you and I are concerned, it’s over and it’s been over for a year now.  Now listen to me. I’ve kept it alive for a long time.  Well, I haven’t. And if you can’t see why my telling you is not gonna make any difference Jennifer. Please, Craig have to get back to work. You owe me a dollar 35 for the cigarette.  You owe me an expiration?  Not listening to me.

Craig:  Listen to your driveway.

Clip:  You’re hurting me. Just leave her alone.

Craig:  He smacks her around a little bit, which leads to this big fight. You know, like, all of the guys in the grocery store, like, come to her aid and fight this guy. And, and then he and then he runs out, but then he just kinda keeps lurking. Like, you just keep seeing him, like, lurking in windows and lurking in aisles and watching them and stuff. And then people start getting killed, and that’s it. It’s just one after another, all the rest of these people in the grocery store getting killed in ways that I feel like they thought were creative and imaginative, but I just found them to be pretty ho and, you know, it’s just some dark figure in a shadow with a really freaking big knife that just kind of, you know, people people they’ll hear something like, hey, what’s that? And they’ll go look around. They’ll be like, oh, quit messing around with me, Joe the produce guy, and then they’ll get stabbed. And then they’re dead.

Todd:  If I were to wager a guess, I would imagine that the genesis of this movie went as follows. I bet a grocery store would be an interesting place to have a slasher movie.

Craig:  I wonder what

Todd:  are all the different perils in a grocery store that we could possibly kill somebody with. Somebody made a list, and then they just, like, laid out a bunch of pages. And they said, okay. The first will be this one, the second one will be this one, the third one will be this one. Let’s see. There’s a meat department. Okay. So we could do a couple scenes in there.  So there’s, like, a scroll saw meat machine that we can do. Right? There’ll be a meat slicer. Let’s see. Somebody will be cutting produce. There’s a knife involved. We’ll do that. We’ll cut them there.

Craig:  There’ll be meat hooks around somewhere.

Todd:  Right. And then and then even one of my favorite kills well, I don’t know if it’s my favorite, but one of the kills I thought was most interesting was the owner upstairs in the office who has one of those spikes that you put receipts on, and he gets, you know, his eye impaled on that, which I sort of feel like is an everyday peril. Like, those spikes were just a bad idea from the beginning. And I don’t know why

Clip:  that those even are allowed to exist in offices.

Craig:  It’s funny to me because for me that the most tense scene in the movie was when that guy was, like, filling out receipts and he kept slapping them down on that spike. And I was like, you’re gonna stab your hand. Be careful. That that was the most tense scene of the movie for me.

Todd:  I was shocked that we didn’t get broken bottles. You know, we there were broken bottles, but nobody actually got stabbed with a broken bottle. That was a little disappointing.

Craig:  But, you know, you get dismembered body parts in the lobster tank, and,

Todd:  it it tries a little too hard. You but one nice thing about it, and we watched the uncut version. The guy who did the special effects for this is Greg Nicotero. And Greg Nicotero is just the one of the go to guys, kind of along with Savini, for basically special makeup effects. And right now, he’s the primary guy leading all of the effects and makeup for the Walking Dead series. So this is one of his earlier efforts, and I would say that it’s really good work, except the camera lingers a little too long and a little too close and a little too clear on everything. So what you get is very nice made, but obvious prosthetics. Yeah.  Like when the heads get smashed, they’re a little rubbery, but there is a lot of blood. I mean, if you if you wanna see gore and you wanna see these gore effects, I mean, they’re done and they’re done pretty well, and they’re they’re certainly not done in a, what I would say, cheap way.

Craig:  Right. Yeah. I I would agree with that. I think that the effects are pretty good, but that’s, you know, that’s another thing. Like, the the reviews kept talking about, oh, if you’re a gorehound, you’ll be totally satisfied. I just don’t remember it being that particularly gory. No. We’re gory.  There were certain things, and again, this is in praise of the special effects, like, Jen’s love interest. I don’t remember what his name was. The nice guy. He gets his head sawed through in, like, the meat slicer or whatever. And so then when you see him again, his head is kind of, like, half connected, half disconnected, and it’s askew, like, at his jaw. And it looks good. It looks cool. I liked it, but, I don’t it just seemed like so much I don’t know.  And maybe it was because they were keeping the killer in the shadows so much. It just seemed like everything was kind of happening in the dark, and I didn’t find it that gory. I swear what I as I was watching it the whole time, I was thinking this would be a a great movie for USA Up All Night. You know? This is except for there are no boobs in it, which it was, like, a requirement for USA Up All Night. Yeah.

Clip:  For

Craig:  sure. Beyond that, it really that’s what it felt like to me. Or even and this may be going a little far. It may not be that bad. But, like, Mystery Science Theater, I feel like those guys would have a blast with Yeah. This movie. Well,

Todd:  it was shades of shop shopping mall in a way, and maybe that was just the setting, but it it kinda felt similarly silly. I I think you have a problem here. The the, on its face, if you’re just sitting around a table and you’re thinking, oh, yeah, let’s do it in a supermarket, it sounds cool. You know, you got these aisles people can hide in. You have these areas, like the meat processing room or whatever, and maybe the office up there. But when you get right down to it, it’s not a very big place. No. And it’s also a very quiet place.  And for some odd reason, they they they work in the dark. There’s there’s no good reason. I mean, there are a lot of problems with this, and maybe because especially for me, I actually worked in a supermarket. One of my very first jobs was in high school was was I was the a sacker. Boy, there’s a job that they don’t have anymore. I was a sacker at a at a supermarket, but I you know, it was a small one just just about this size, and we had a little meat processing room and and all that with the cutters, and I had to clean those. And then we had a back room, of course, where we broke down boxes, and we had another room where we did cut produce. I mean, there were all those things, but it’s not huge.  You know, it’s not that big. Yeah. And you could just have a conversation in one corner of the store, and if it’s nighttime and there are only a few employees in there, you can still hear it in the meat room. Right. And that’s ultimately their that’s one of the big problems with this movie that just kinda makes it a bit of a groaner, and that is that all of these crazy things are happening in all of these little areas of this rather small supermarket, presumably without without people coming in contact with each other that often, without anybody hearing it. It’s just pretty silly.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s what I thought Todd. Like, how are people not hearing these murders going on all around? Because we’re not talking about, like, a Walmart Supercenter. We’re talking about, like, a small town eighties grocery store, which in its entirety is maybe the size of a football field. Maybe. It’s maybe Maybe not even that big.

Todd:  I think I counted like 12 or 13 aisles.

Craig:  Right. And I think that I don’t know, you know, I’m not a cinematographer. I don’t I’m just talking out of my butt. But, like, it seemed to me that they were doing a lot of shooting from up high Mhmm. Which just made it look even smaller. Yeah. Because you because you could see the entirety of the whole store. You know, like, yeah, there’s aisles, but it’s not like they’re floor to ceiling.  You know? Like Yeah. It’s just a big it’s just a big open room, really. And, you know, even the part that I talked about, you know, after Craig smacks Jen up a little bit and they fight, then, like, he goes off running. And then they’re like, oh, well, now we have to search for him. And they all goes, like, creeping slowly through the aisle searching for him. Like, where do you think he’s gonna be hiding? Like

Todd:  It’s only, like, 3 places. And if it’s not in this giant room You could,

Craig:  like, you could literally just start at aisle 1 and just run down Todd aisle 12 and see. You know? Like, he’d he’d have to

Todd:  be in there somewhere. And there’s no need to creep around. My god. You could stand at

Clip:  the end of the aisle and look down it and then move to the next aisle. You don’t have to slowly walk through each aisle looking left and right. You’re just gonna see boxes of food. Right.  Ass. You practically scared me to death. What?  I’m sorry.

Craig:  I’ve been helping.

Clip:  Hey. What what happened? Did you see did you see me in

Craig:  the No.

Clip:  It’s just Tim staring me.  You are such a dick, Tim. Jack asked me. No. This is so typical of you, Tim. Quit screwing around. Damn it. This is serious. I think I think I know where Craig might be hiding.  Where? The attic. The attic. Shut up. Up there where I caught you guys smoking that wacky tabacky? Oh, come on, bub. Let’s check it out. Me? Yeah, you. Come on, dammit.

Todd:  And there are silly things Todd, like, toward the end when she is running from the real killer when our final girl, Jen, is, they have some interaction in one aisle, and she escapes him, and she runs, like, 2 aisles down, and then she’s pulled into the aisle by another character who then starts a conversation with her as they slowly walk down the aisle. Like, the guy you just ran from is 2 aisles away. Right. You know? Like, I was he just sitting on the floor for a while, catching his breath before he decided to come back after her? They have this, like, 5 minute conversation 2 aisles away. And and it a conversation the guy could hear. You know? It’s so dumb. And so there are these things you just have to kinda go with, I think, if you’re gonna watch this film. But it’s hard to get over.

Craig:  And I think the the fact that they filmed it in a actual grocery store like, I feel like they tried really hard to take advantage of the things that were available to them. Like, they would have characters, like, ride in, like, produce elevator or I don’t you know, the the box elevator or whatever it is. Or they would have people come up and down the, like, conveyor belts that you would ship the meat up and down on or whatever. And, like, so they tried to make use of these set pieces that were at their disposal, but, ultimately, it didn’t really go anywhere. Like, there were there were no, like, amazing cool kills in any of those locales. I mean, yeah, some people got killed in those places, and there were some neat jump scares with, like, the elevator every once in a while or something. But, they’re just I I don’t know. Like you said, it’s like, woah.  Maybe it would be a neat idea to do this in a grocery store. And then ultimately, no, not really. Like when you when you talk about shopping mall, you know, a mall is a much better

Todd:  It’s big.

Craig:  Set because you’ve got all kinds of opportunities to go into different stores and, like, it’s a big place where people could legitimately hide and run and and the grocery store just it just doesn’t offer that.

Todd:  And while we’re ragging on it, I also had to take a little beef with I I I really wonder what these people’s jobs are because they closed the this place, and then they do work there, what, for several hours? Right. This just doesn’t seem like any grocery store. Well, certainly not the one I worked at. You would close the place, and then we would spend about an hour mopping it. It’s basically mopping it and cleaning the meat room while the cashiers, you know, cashed out the drawers, and the customer service guy checked everything, and then we were out of there. And it was just, I mean, it’s it’s like 3 or 4 people. And this this seems to require, like, 10 people to hang out including the the owner. Yeah.  The owners, they’re really they’re gonna stick around way way way into the night after the store is closed every day to do paperwork. No. They do that. Right. They do all this stuff during the day, and they certainly turn on all the lights when they do it. Yeah. Just because the store is closed, if you’re stocking shelves, you don’t do it in the dark.

Clip:  Well

Craig:  and that was the other thing. You know, just from a practical perspective but also in terms of moviemaking, there were too many of them. There were, like, I don’t even know how many people were there, like, 8 of them or something in this small grocery store. And there’s the 2, like, front checker girls, and it seems like their job is to, like, wipe down the registers. Like, how long does that take? And then, you know, I I you know, there are some people restocking shelves. Fine. I get that. They they’ve got the premise that they have to mark everything down.  So we get lots of shots of them using, like, the sticker gun to mark down products or whatever. That was classic. But it just seemed like, you know, there were so many of them there. And a lot of the time, it just seemed like they were mostly kinda just hanging out.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And, and And eating and drinking the the product. Yeah. Now I I would only imagine that that’s legit. Like, surely, I didn’t work at a grocery store, but I did work in fast food. And I am sure that I ate 1,000 of dollars of free

Todd:  food. It’s a little different in a grocery store. You’re not you’re not like like, I I just had to laugh because this guy’s wandering. It was it was toward the beginning of the movie, and one of the characters was creeping down the aisle like we were saying. And then he just kinda stops. He looks around. He’s like, I’m gonna take a break, and he reaches in and, like, opens up a package of Little Debbie’s and starts eating snack cakes.

Craig:  And then puts the package back.

Todd:  Maybe it was supposed to be funny, but no. You know? And the people stocking the beer do not just sit in the back and drink 4, you know, 4 or 5 cans of beer while they’re on their break. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s kinda dumb.

Craig:  I don’t know. You know, like you said, the acting isn’t terrible. As far as acting is concerned, the biggest failure, and not because she’s terrible, but just because she’s not really special in any way is the main girl, Jen. Yeah. You know, Elizabeth Cox. With the final girl, you know, you want her to be somebody that you’re rooting for. And it’s not like I wanted this girl to die. It’s not like she was that annoying, but she was just kinda, you know, like Yeah.  Stupid okay, Jen. Whatever. And she’s all she’s all conflicted about this abusive boyfriend and, like, okay, blah blah. The other the other actors, I actually really kind of enjoyed. The only other girl in the movie is one of the front checker girls and her name is Linda. She was played by Renee Estevez, who is, you know, Charlie Sheen and Emilio Estevez’s little sister, which I didn’t know, fun bit of trivia there. And, she also played Betty Finn in Heathers and Heathers is one of my absolute favorite movies, from the eighties. And and she does a good job.  She’s endearing. I wish that she would have been the final girl, but instead, she’s the first to get A tie. Killed. Right? The Raimi brothers are funny.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  They’re funny guys. They’re kinda they’re kinda goofy looking. I mean, they’re not, like, hideously ugly or anything, but they look like, you know, average Joe guys that you would work at the grocery store with. And they’re funny. So I I enjoyed them. Everybody else was just, you know, kind of bland, generic Yes. Characters.

Clip:  Craig used to be really quite cool. You know? I don’t know why he went nuts. I I figured it’s because his old man died. That must have really freaked him out. After that, he started acting really weird.  Weird?  Yeah. He started stealing money from me, and then he needed more money to buy drugs. I mean, like, very serious drugs. He he was dealing them and then he became addicted. He he started treating Jennifer like shit. He and I got into it one night and, I swear to Todd if my brother hadn’t hit him in the head repeatedly with a blender, he would have killed me.  A blender?  Yeah. A Hamilton Beach blender.

Craig:  Aside from the Raimi Brothers, the other guys, I really couldn’t even distinguish between them. Like, I didn’t even I couldn’t either. I wasn’t sure I wasn’t sure who was who. Like, there was the one nice guy who Jen makes out with for a while, and there was a really weird part. And maybe my mind maybe my mind just goes to the gutter. What was the the cute guy’s name? Dave. Dave was the nice guy who likes Jen. There’s one point where he’s, like, comforting her.  You you know, everything’s gonna be okay. You don’t have to worry about your scummy boyfriend or whatever. And she’s like, but aren’t you still dating so and so? And he’s like, no. And I feel like they decide to have a date. And then they meet, like, 5 minutes later, and they start making out, like, on the conveyor belt, like, at the front of the store. But while they’re making out Yes. I don’t remember who this was, but one of the guys from the back is, like, looking at them through the milk cooler. Yes.  And was he jerking off back there? I thought because it looked like it for a second.

Clip:  I thought the same thing.

Todd:  I thought absolutely the same thing. But then he comes out from behind there at some point. Right. He’s standing at the end of the aisle, like, peeking around it, like he’s watching them. Again, kind of like he’s getting off on it or something.

Craig:  Like, why?

Todd:  I don’t know. It was weird. They’re they’re just they’re just fooling around on the yeah. It was pretty dumb. Oh my gosh. It Well, it was just it and that’s the thing. It was just an excuse to get him out, so then we could have a POV of the killer from where he just was. You know? Right.  And, that we’d get a lot of these POV killer shots in here, and sometimes there’s heavy breathing behind them. And that, of course, is to disguise who who the killer is. Because, first, it sets it up that it’s going to be Craig, this jerk, and the minute that you see this guy is super jerky and they have to fight him off and and send him away and call the police, you know it’s not gonna be him.

Craig:  Well, right. But that’s the thing. They play it so heavy handed. Like, it like, he’s, he’s constantly lurking around, like, where you know, behind people, and they’re just doing their thing. And he’s just very creepily standing behind them and watching. Or, you know, Jen will be doing something. Like, I feel like at one point, she’s in the bathroom, and, like, you can just kind of see over her shoulder that he’s, like, peering in the window at her in the bathroom. And so yeah.  I mean, it’s obvious it’s clearly not going to be him. Yeah. That would be way too obvious. So then and the other thing, I say this sarcastically, but my favorite thing about the movie was the music. It was the most dramatic music I’ve ever heard in my life. Like, it was literally, like, every time they would pan to, you know, Craig, like, creepily hanging out in the background, be like, Todd, dun, dun. Like

Todd:  Right. Violins and everything. I mean, it was pretty it’s not and it’s not like a like a synth score, you know, like, like you would expect in a movie like this, but it’s full on musical instruments, violins, and things. Actually, it it did remind me a little bit of the same, style of music that the original Evil Dead movie had.

Craig:  It it it was very, very dramatic. Like, it it it I don’t know. It it felt like, you know, almost like the music from a silent movie or something. Like, we have to really, really establish mood here. This is the scary part.

Todd:  And the other thing is the direct, the cinematography. I feel like this director is trying really, really hard to the point where it’s obvious after a while that he’s trying to get creative shots in. Yeah. I appreciated that about the movie, but at some point, sometimes it’s it’s a little bit like the music too. It’s just a little too heavy, a little too heavy handed, a little too obvious. I mean, I’m thinking specifically about, a moment. I mean, there’s a moment where she calls the police, and we get a shot from, like, what’s, I guess, the inside of the rotary phone. It’s like you can see the holes in the dial, and that’s what we’re looking out through.  And, you know, some of this is actually pretty clever. Like, when she’s sweeping the floor, we get a nice transition where it’s like a literal sweep, like a literal wipe, where we are the floor looking up at her sweeping for a little bit, and there’s stuff on us, you know, that she’s sweeping away. And then when it moves to the next scene, she sweeps that away, and that sweeps the the shot aside. I mean, all of these things individually are pretty clever and really cool, but when you pile so many of them together in the movie, it draws so much attention to itself that it kind of I don’t know. It kind of works against it. It’s it’s it just feels like they’re he’s like, the director’s really trying too hard. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Craig:  In in unnecessary ways. I I get what you’re saying, that ultimately it just doesn’t work that well. But I I appreciated the fact that the director was was attempting something with style. You know? Like, it would have been easy to just not do those things and, you know, keep everything very straightforward. It it felt like he was trying to kind of, you know, leave an artistic mark on it a little bit. And the director, Spiegel, he was high school buddies with, the Ramey brothers. Right?

Todd:  Yep.

Craig:  And I think that he didn’t he work with them? Like, did he cowrite Evil Dead or Evil Dead 2, something like that?

Todd:  Evil Dead 2, he wrote it. Yes. Just before this movie.

Craig:  I see a little bit of Raimi’s early style in this guy’s style. The odd perspective shots, especially, you know, in Evil Dead and Evil Dead 2, where you would just kind of get these odd perspective shots. And, like, this this guy, you know, would shoot things, like there was one scene, I think, in the boss’s office that was shot almost entirely through a glass bottle. Now what was the purpose of that? I don’t know, but it looked kind of neat. At least it was different.

Todd:  I think the purpose of that was just to shield the identity of the killer.

Craig:  Okay.

Todd:  I mean, it wasn’t I’m not saying it that those things weren’t appreciated and weren’t so good. I’m just saying that somehow it just felt a little more organic in the Evil Dead movies, and maybe Yeah. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. And this it just felt like it it was the only way he could spice up some rather dull what would have otherwise been dull spots. And, yeah, who can fall him for that? You know, really? As it just there’s not a consistency or, it just doesn’t work as well in this film, I think.

Craig:  Well, and with this was this his first movie? Yeah. The director?

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  I mean, we should I mean, we gotta cut the guy a little bit of slack. I mean, for for a first effort, it’s not it’s not terrible. Yeah. One of my notes, they’re like, why is there an eyeball in the olives?

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Just those random things.

Todd:  At the beginning, when they have their fight scene that punches and things, the fight scene was a little was a little not so good. You know, it’s just like the staging of things in the supermarket. It felt like they just had a limited amount of space, and limited ability to really do things, and so it kinda cramped their style. And so even the fight scenes seem overly staged and not terribly realistic. Here is the Craig. Alright? It’s the first bit where he and Jennifer are having their altercation. It starts to get a little too physical with her, and she yells. And suddenly, previously, there was nobody here, And they’ve been loud, and they’ve been, you know, arguing, and he’s been forcing himself on her, and she’s been pushing him away, while his while her girlfriend is just sort of standing over, in the other, cashier’s place going, alright.  Is everything okay? Are you sure everything’s okay? And then suddenly, you know, 6 people suddenly come out of nowhere and descend on them for this fight scene. They as you said, he runs off and they have to creep through and find him. At one point, they do end up finding him, and they drag him to the front, and we get fantastic lines like,

Clip:  you have more than a deal with the police than a deal with me. Understand? And you better hope that the cops get you, you go to office.

Todd:  You’ve already got him.

Clip:  What did

Craig:  you do?

Todd:  He’s right there in your hands. I mean, what kind of a threat is that? The writing in in this movie could’ve, could’ve used up some polish. Let’s just put it that way.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. When people did talk, and it wasn’t that often, it was really pretty silly.

Craig:  It was. I mean, in the whole thing, you know, like we said, how are these 6 or 7 people gonna get murdered in this small confined space without anybody hearing? And nobody ever does. Nobody ever hears anybody else getting killed. Every time it’s time for somebody new to get killed, like I said, it’s like, oh, they hear something or they see something and they kinda creep off somewhere, and then the killer pops out and and kills them. And then we get to the end when everybody else is dead except Jennifer, at least we think, and and then there’s just a whole montage where she runs around the whole store finding them all. Like like, it’s it’s like, I don’t know, a minute and a half that she just runs her out. Ah, there’s another one. Ah,

Clip:  there’s another one.

Craig:  And, she gets up. I feel like maybe she gets back to the front of the store and Craig is there. And does she she thinks he’s the killer, right, or something?

Todd:  So she she swings around. She’s got a hook in her hand, and, she swings around and and gets him with the hook, which which somehow knocks him out. I guess I don’t know why. We’re I think we’re supposed to think that he he was killed by her. Yeah. She hooks him in

Clip:  the shoulder.

Craig:  It looked to me like it looked to me like the hook went into his neck. I thought that he was dead, but then he pops up in a few minutes and he’s fine. Yeah.

Todd:  There’s a lot of that too.

Craig:  But anyway, the the assistant manager, Bill shows back up and he’s like, oh, don’t worry. Everything’s fine. Craig, you know, I found Craig in the back. He was peering in at you at the bathroom window, which is true. And he says, and he knocked me out, and I’ve been unconscious back there the whole time, but it’s okay. And he gives her a hug, and then he goes to call the police. And then she sees, like, blood on her clothes or on her hands or something. And then it the camera cuts back to him and he’s on the phone, but his hands are all bloody and he he sees her looking and he looks and he’s like, oh, guess you caught me.

Clip:  And she’s like, why?

Craig:  Yeah. I just I I just love his his his explanation.

Clip:  Danny was always a big boss. He always called the shots on every business deal till now. I couldn’t let that son of a bitch take this store away for me. Store’s my whole life. I had to kill him.  The night crew had nothing to do with it.  I couldn’t let anybody stop me. I guess I just got a little carried away.  You’re sick.  Don’t you see? I’m just crazy about this store. Yeah.

Craig:  And he couldn’t let it be sold off, so he had to kill the boss. So I killed him, and then I guess I just got a little carried away and killed everybody else too. Like, that’s his ex explanation. I just got a little carried away.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s really dumb. And this is like so at this point, we’re, like, 30 minutes away from the end.

Craig:  Yeah. There was still so much left. I was like, wait. What?

Todd:  I really I I checked the time because, I mean, it felt like a long movie up to that point. It did. And and I checked the time. I was like, oh my gosh. You’re kidding me. Oh, well, first of all, I thought that I I thought I saw Phil coming a mile away. He was there was nobody else with any motivation whatsoever, and he made such a huge deal at the beginning But, hey. Now, I didn’t really wanna be the selling, you know, I I tried to get Danny not to sell it, but the thing is he owns 51%, and I own 49, so there’s nothing I could do.  And he’s Right. Constantly apologizing throughout the movie for it. So I thought, well, shoot. If anybody’s gonna be running around with some beef, it’s gotta be him. Nobody else that’s the thing. There’s no reason to suspect anyone else No. At all. And we already know Craig

Craig:  said no. Unless you’re gonna right. Unless you’re gonna fall for that major Craig red herring, which is so obvious. Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. Yeah. I didn’t I didn’t know who it was gonna be.  I kind of forgot about Bill. I kind because he does get knocked out, I guess, at least for a second behind the dumpster. Yep. And and I just kinda forgot about him. That’s that’s how memorable these characters are. Now, obviously, when he showed back up, I’m like, oh, well, obviously. But, I don’t know. I kind of half expected it to be and and maybe I would have liked it better if it had just been some rando.  You know? Yeah. I don’t know. You know, some disgruntled old lady who didn’t get her double coupons or something. But, no, it’s Bill. And so then he chases her around the store for a long, long time. This just goes on for ages. She hides behind a popcorn display. I love that.  She hides behind this popcorn display just so that and she keeps okay. So Craig hits her in the very beginning of the movie, and then she’s got this recurring bloody nose. Like, this girl must be a hemophiliac because her nose will not stop bleeding. And when she’s hiding behind this popcorn stand, for some reason there’s water on the ground, on the floor, and, like, Herb knows is bleeding enough that it’s, like, dripping into the water and, like, spills out into the aisle so that the killer can see her. And then he just takes his huge I mean, we’re talking, like, a good 10 inch, 12 inch blade knife. He takes his huge knife and just starts hacking away at these giant bags of popcorn, and popcorn is flying. And she just kind of slips out. Yeah.  Like like like, he’s busy hacking up the popcorn, and

Clip:  she just kinda like, okay. I’ll see you later.

Todd:  It’s so convoluted, but there was one nice thing about this. There’s a point at which she’s okay. So then this happens, and it’s like this big thing, and then she runs 2 aisles over, and everything’s quiet again. Right. So then she’s, you know, creeping down the aisle, and she’s got her back against the aisle. It’s like, just go to the door, you know. Yeah. Anyway, she’s she’s got her back against, I think, this this re another recurring gag through the whole thing is this box of laundry detergent that keeps getting popped off the shelf.  And she picks it up, and she puts it back. And then he reaches through from the other aisle and grabs her and starts to pull her through. And somehow, she reaches down, and she grabs a thing of wheat germ. And Uh-huh. She smashes it over her her head. And at that point, I was thinking, wow. Craig, I think this is the second movie that we’ve reviewed on this podcast where wheat germ has a pretty significant

Craig:  role. Oh my god. That’s so funny. I thought the same thing. What was that other one? It was terrible. It was, the

Todd:  other one was, Zombie nightmare.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Who knew that wheat germ was a thing in the world of horror?

Todd:  Oh, it is. If I ever make a horror movie, I am gonna put wheat germ in it somehow. Mark my words.

Craig:  That’s good. Well, so Craig hooks back up with her and he’s like, oh, it’s okay. I’m gonna help you and they run around. There’s there’s some point where she does run to the front door. I feel like Craig gets knocked out or killed again. No. He’s not dead because he shows up again at the end. But they keep getting separated somehow, and she ends up at the front Todd.  And the the, like, the bread delivery guy shows up, which also makes no sense.

Todd:  No. It’s not the bread delivery.

Craig:  Is it the morning guy?

Todd:  It’s always the morning.

Craig:  All night?

Todd:  No. I mean, it’s supposed to be the morning. That’s when the bread delivery guy normally comes. What what are you gonna deliver bread in at late at night while it can sit on the shelf and get stale?

Craig:  But that’s what I’m saying. Like, seriously, like, they they worked, oh, like, they worked their shift and worked at the grocery store, and then they stayed all night.

Clip:  Like, it doesn’t even make any sense.

Craig:  And so, like, the bread delivery guy comes up to the door, and she’s beating on it. I don’t know why the front door is locked and she can’t get out. Like, I’m pretty sure that you can open those things from the inside. But the bread delivery guy gets stabbed up against the door. That was the other thing. Like, you kept you said, just run for the door. Like, it’s not even just run for the door. I mean, this is a grocery store.  Like, yeah, there are gonna be huge doors at the front. Okay. Let’s say for a second that maybe somehow he managed to lock those whatever. Grocery stores have doors all over the place. Like yes. Like, in the in the back, there would be, like, a freaking loading dock. Like, surely, there would be some way to get out of this building. But and then I guess, eventually, they do.  She and Craig get out. Oh, they go out the bathroom window. Craig’s like, I got in through the bathroom window, and that’s how we’re getting out of here.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  So they do, and they go out the bathroom window. But then they get confronted again by Bill and there’s more fighting. And Craig just keeps like, I can’t even remember what happens to him because I feel like he just keeps getting incapacitated. And then she’s fighting, Bill, Jen is, and, somehow she, like, tries to run to her car and she’s, like, fiddling with the keys and somehow, I don’t understand how, but somehow he grabs her from underneath the car from the other side.

Todd:  Yeah. Why didn’t he just run around to the side of the car? But apparently, he crawled under the car so that he could grab her legs and pull her out to the other side.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  And somehow I’d again, I missed it, like I don’t know if Bill dropped his knife or what, but somehow she gets a Todd of the big knife and when he pulls her out, she stabs him and then there’s more fighting, like, she stabs him and then she runs to the phone booth and she

Todd:  Let’s let’s let’s get this point clear, though. She stabs him in the chest. He falls backwards with the knife in his chest, and against all laws of physics, as he hits the ground, the knife flies upward into the air and lands next to him, like in some dramatic moment that made absolutely no sense. I couldn’t figure that out for the that was so distracting. I couldn’t get over that part.

Craig:  Todd. I don’t know. At this part, I must have just kind of been zoned out because I don’t even really she she she runs to the

Todd:  She’s inside the phone booth. Yep.

Craig:  Yeah. And she’s calling 911, and she gets 911, and and she tells them where she is, I think. And then Bill is still alive and starts attacking her from outside and, like, he’s, like, beating the phone booth and, like, breaking it and, like, he tips it over. And then he ends up getting what? Like, a cleaver to the neck or something? I think a cleaver

Todd:  to the head.

Craig:  Get him?

Todd:  Yeah. Craig gets him from behind with a cleaver to the neck finally.

Craig:  Right. So then he falls into the phone booth, and Jen gets out, and the cops arrive. And one of the cops is Sam Raimi. I feel like the other cop is the director of the movie, isn’t it?

Todd:  Yeah. May yeah.

Craig:  It’s either the director or the writer. Anyway, they show up. And it’s funny. Bruce, Bruce Campbell, looks so young and handsome. He was such a young, handsome guy back in those days. He’s I still I I still love Bruce Campbell. He’s freaking hilarious. He’s such a funny, funny, funny guy, but he’s not the, the Strep Youngblood.  Todd he once was. But they show up. And, like, actually, this is probably fairly realistic. Like, the cops immediately grab these, because they see this dead guy in the phone booth, so they grab them. The the they grab Jen and Craig. And one of the cops goes in and he comes back out. He’s like, oh, it’s a bloodbath in there. There’s bodies all over.  So they think Jen and Craig did it, and they’re like, no. We didn’t do it. And then Bill wakes up in the phone booth just to say,

Clip:  they did it.

Craig:  So the cops so the cops handcuff both of them and they’re, like, arguing or whatever. And then the last shot is like it closes up on Bill’s face and he’s got his eyes closed again and then they pop open and then it cuts to Jin’s face and she just screams and then it cuts to black, which was kind of funny. I read that initially the intention for this final shot was for the camera somehow to zoom in on her screaming face, travel down her throat to see her heart, which would at that point stop beating And that would be the end of the movie, which sounds which sounds very ambitious. But had they been able to pull it off, might have been kinda cool. But, but instead, she just opens up and and screams out of nowhere, and, that’s the end. Todd. What a what a movie. I ain’t telling you.

Todd:  You know, to be honest, this is the kind of movie that I think would have been fun, to see in a group of people. It’s it’s a fun movie to make fun of because there are a lot of things in this movie to make fun of. The absurdity of it is really funny, And the kills are, you know, I mean, you said they’re not gory. I guess maybe there’s just not a lot of blood splattering, but you sure get a lot of close ups on heads getting smashed

Clip:  True.

Todd:  Heads getting cut in in half. There is one part where one of them gets stabbed. I can’t remember who it is. It’s, gets stabbed in the meat locker, and it seems like there’s a geyser of blood that comes out of his chest. But, you know, I mean, so there’s that aspect to it as well, and it is it’s got the creativity part. You know, it has the these really interesting camera angles, and the acting is fair to middling, but it just doesn’t work as a cohesive whole. You know? Mhmm. It it’s really hard to even take it seriously even as a comedy.  You know? It’s it’s it’s not really played for comedy. I mean, there are moments

Craig:  that are comedic. There are some funny parts. Like, there’s one guy in the back. I don’t even know who he is. I think his name is Bub or something, and he’s kinda like this. I’m and again, I had a really hard time distinguishing them from one another, so I may have him mixed up. But there’s this guy, this really doofy guy that was always just in the back by himself, and he had these headphones on. And every time you saw him, you could hear what he was listening to, and it was the same 8 beats of some song every single time.  And it sounded like the that Internet, like, keyboard cat. It was like like, it was just the it was like the silliest, goofiest. I don’t know if they were going for, like, electronica or what, but it was like the same 2 or 3 measures of the same song over and over and over again until he gets killed. And the way that he gets killed is he gets a meat cleaver through the top of his head through his headphones, and then it slows down. So it’s like every time that guy came on and it was that same corny music, I’ll that made me laugh. So there was there was some humor.

Todd:  There was. There was for sure. It it it wasn’t like Evil Dead where, you know, where there’s so much humor. It’s it’s obviously it just gets over the Todd, and it gets funny. These are just situations that are really not tenable, and there’s nothing really funny about that. It just seems like bad movie making.

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. I I I don’t know why it’s so highly rated. I really don’t. I don’t either.

Craig:  It’s hard to believe. Yeah. I I well, it like, when it said, you know, those reviews that I read, they’re, like, one of the last great slasher movies of the eighties. I just I don’t get it. Like and I I suppose if I were looking at something like Friday 13th with completely fresh eyes, like, if I knew nothing about it, if I knew nothing about the franchise and I just looked at that movie in 2018, maybe I would feel similarly. You know, there are similar things about it. You know, like, at the end of Friday 13th, there’s that whole montage where Alice runs around and finds all the dead people. You know, it’s it’s it’s Yeah.  Kind of the same thing in this movie. She you know, we get all everybody dies. We get to the end of the movie. The heroine runs around and screams when she finds all the dead people. There are certainly similarities. It certainly follows a lot of the same rules and tropes, of other slashers. I just didn’t find it to be particularly interesting. I I don’t know.  I just Yeah. I I you know, sorry folks out there if you’re a fan of this movie. If you are, come on our Facebook page and talk to us about it. Explain it. Todd us. Convince me. Yeah. Convince me that this movie is better than I think it is.  And I think that you’re right. If you sat down and watched this with a bunch of friends and the beer was flowing and you were talking through most of it and having a good time, then, yeah, like, you could just kinda tune in for when somebody’s getting their head sawed off in the meat slicer and you could laugh about that and that would be fun. But if you just sit down by yourself sober and

Clip:  try to watch this, It’s it’s a chore, frankly. It really is.

Todd:  Especially when you get an hour in, the killer is revealed, and you realize there’s still half an hour left to go. Yes. The I think what the best we can say about this movie is because it’s 1989, it is one of the last slasher movies of the eighties. Yeah. Maybe not the last best, but certainly one of the last. Yeah.

Craig:  And with that, I will agree.

Todd:  Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Google Play, iTunes, everywhere you can find your favorite podcasts. We also have that Facebook page. Please get on there and convince us why this movie is great. You can also find our website 2 guys dot redfortynet.com, where we post every Thursday a written review along with our regular podcast and all of our back episodes. Until next week, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.  I’m with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Finally, a movie that lives up to its title. All you need to know is there. We follow the exploits of an “Engineer Hunter” in the madcap and bloody world of the future, where the Tokyo Police are privatized and brutal, hunting mutants who grow weapons from damaged body parts. It’s as crazy as it sounds.

Episode 118, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, we decided to do something a little wacky, today. Of course, we did, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 2 last week, and that that qualified as wacky, but I I sort of feel like this might be a little wackier. What do you think?

Craig:  Yeah. I would say so.

Todd:  We, are going all the way to the other side of the world for Tokyo Gore Police, 2008 title starring Eihi Shina, who starred in Audition as well. So if you’re familiar with Audition, which is a 1999 film, you might have recognized her from that. Craig, had you even heard of this film before I proposed it to you?

Clip:  Nope. Yeah. I had not well, I guess that’s not really fair to say because though I didn’t recall having heard it, I had seen some of the images, some stills, from the movie, when I looked it up online. So no, I didn’t really know what those stills were that I was looking at, but I had seen some of the weird imagery from the movie.

Todd:  Okay. Yeah. It’s, directed by Yoshihiro Nishimura, and, he is an effects guy as becomes patently obvious when you’re watching this film. If you go to his IMDB page, you’ll see, like, 89 or a 100 special effects credits Todd his name and about 20 or so director credits. I think this is, like, the second film that he did, the second big budget film. And, or big budget. I don’t know how big the budget was. But, it was filmed in 2 weeks, and it’s kinda surprising, although, I mean, it was filmed in 2 weeks, but there’s clearly a ton of preparation involved.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  It’s not like beginning to end. They, hey. Hey. Let’s make a movie. And 2 weeks later, they had a film. I don’t know. I mean, you can call it a horror film. I call it a horror film because it’s pretty gory and gross and violent, but, it’s also more of a sci fi and a little bit of comedy too.

Clip:  Yeah. And action. Action. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s crazy. I was I was trying to describe it last night, to my partner who who had only, like, you know, as always, you know, was just kinda walking by and saw what I was watching on the screen. I was like, what are you watching? And I was like, I know.  Right? You know, I have we done Japanese films before? I I I know we’ve done hausu. We have hausu.

Todd:  I think I think hausu is the only Japanese

Craig:  film we’ve done outside of this one. Yeah.

Clip:  Well, I guess my point is they just have very different sensibilities than we Westerners have. I mean, it’s it’s got a very distinctive Asian feel to it. You know, it feels kind of like manga or like, anime or, even, like, video game or or, you know, like, even there’s some old school, like, kung fu action going on, here too. For sure. It’s I don’t even know. Like like, I don’t even know where to begin because it’s so out of the realm of what we usually talk about, in so many ways. I mean, yeah, there are, like, monsters and blood and and all kinds of things going on, but it’s just it’s so out of my zone. I don’t really even know where to begin.

Todd:  You know, if you think of it like a cartoon, we we talked a lot about, Haozu, and it it is, I think, wackier than this movie. This movie has has a logic to it. I mean, it it’s a pretty straightforward plot. It has an internal logic to it. Hausu was got got extremely bizarre at points. And when we say bizarre, we mean, like, a guy turns into bananas for no apparent reason. You know? And, like, there was such a surreal quality to that film that this film definitely doesn’t have. It’s it’s bizarre, but in a different way.  You know what I mean?

Clip:  Yeah. In a different way, but I would still say surreal and bizarre. Like, I mean, when when I’m writing down things like vagina crocodile girl and, like, the the the the pet dog lady now has sword legs, Like like like, that’s pretty surreal.

Todd:  Yeah. That’s a good point. You do have a you do have a fair point there. But but, if if you look at it as sci fi, it’s really not much more surreal than the 5th element if the 5th element had, you know, Olympic sized swimming pools filled with blood that were sprayed at the camera and all around the set, you know, pretty much most of the time. Well, let’s just start out with the plot. It is pretty simple. It follows a woman named Ruka, and, it starts out and I really like actually, I really like the way the story is told. It’s told in a very, artistic way, I think.  There are flashback scenes. There are flashback scenes that get revisited again, but with new information later on. There are also intercut with this, are parody commercials that just try to set up the world that we’re in. It reminded me a lot of of, like, Robocop in a way Mhmm. Where there’s this ultraviolet world where in the future, the Tokyo police have been privatized. I mean, that’s pretty much ripped off a Robocop, almost. Sure. But the Tokyo police have been privatized, and so, the the world is much more violent.  And, there’s a voice over. Some kids are playing on a playground, and there’s this nice voice over that Ruka’s starting to talk. Basically, my dad is a police officer. She’s talking about him, and we see her father standing there waving, and he’s he’s smiling at her, and there’s some signs or something behind him. We don’t quite know what that is. And then boom, his head explodes. Right. And immediately, it’s, it’s dark, and it’s a rainy day, and, Ruka is an adult, and she’s in the back of a of a of a car.  So it’s neat the way that it sets up kind of a mystery. We don’t know what’s going on here. We don’t know who these people are, and slowly it starts to unpack it for us. This woman, Ruka, is what they essentially call a engineer hunter. She’s a special part of the police squad who hunts these people called engineers, genetically modified people somehow that have just kind of cropped up in society, who, if they get injured, their injuries turn into weapons. That is very anime.

Clip:  It’s so bizarre. Like, it’s funny that you’re just laying it out. Like, okay. Here’s how it goes. Because in the whole first 10 minutes of the movie, I had no idea what was going on. And I was trying to write things down and, like, I I did really like the, the contrast in the beginning because, you know, I Todd this movie and it starts out with these beautiful, like, colors and flowers, and it’s all very dreamlike and pastel and, like, I like, fuzzy, like, the dreamlike imagery, and it’s all very nice. And then the guy’s head explodes, and then it it cuts to this stark, dark, you know, sharp in focus. It it you know, it’s it’s like a dystopian future kind of thing.  And I and I really liked that contrast. But then you’ve got this girl who I don’t know who she is. I mean, I guess she’s the same girl. I mean, she is. But at the time, I’m thinking I guess she’s the girl who was narrating in the beginning. And she’s sitting in this car and, like, you’re like you said, there’s not only are there these weird commercials about, like, the privatization of the police force and how great that’s gonna be for the citizenry and, you know, it’s all very brutally violent, but also tongue in cheek. It’s like, you know, we’re the friendly cops who execute people in the streets and, like, they shit. And then you like, they they’ll kill these people, and then it will cut back to an extreme close-up of their face with big smiles, like, here we are, your your protective plea yeah.  Really weird. And then there’s also, in addition to the commercials, there’s, like, a police commentator. Like, I I guess this this lady is just, like, on TV.

Todd:  I thought she was the dispatcher.

Clip:  Oh, maybe she is, but it seems like she’s on like, doesn’t it seem like she’s televised or something?

Todd:  Because it’s

Clip:  it seems like she’s always trying to, like, hype up the Craig. Like, oh, here

Craig:  we go. Like, it’s

Clip:  it’s so bizarre.

Todd:  I know what you mean because and and she’s in a she’s in a cute outfit, and she’s got her she’s very kawaii. She’s super cute. She has her blonde short hair and her cute police uniform on, and she’s in a room that’s like, got like silvery curtains behind her, almost like a game show set, and she’s Yeah. Talking into it. Yeah. I I I saw this as, obviously, it’s some parody. You know, it’s it’s Yeah. Extreme of of just like the commercials.  But it was it was also kinda ripped off too of, another film that I’m not sure if you’ve seen. It’s Japanese, called, Battle Royale. Have you seen Battle Royale?

Clip:  I’ve seen it, but only once a long time ago. I don’t I mean, I remember what it was about. It was it was The Hunger Games.

Todd:  Yeah. It was. Yeah. Basically. And and there was a similar character in there. They also came across the TV that would, instruct the kids as to what they were supposed to do, and it was all done in a very cute way with cartoons and things like, here’s how you’re gonna murder each other, and here’s where you pick up your weapons and things. Yeah. So she’s like the cheerleader for the police, it seems like.

Clip:  Yeah. It’s it’s odd. I didn’t really understand it. But whatever. Anyway, then okay. So then, like, it’s obviously some kind of crime scene. Like, they’re in front of this great big building, and there’s all these cops around, and they’re weird. You know, they’re dressed weird.  They’re, like, half cop, like, half samurai. Like, they wear masks and stuff. Okay. So there’s this criminal, I guess, up in this building. I couldn’t really tell what he was doing. It seemed like he was, like, eating a decaying corpse or something.

Todd:  I think that’s yeah. He was up on the roof and he had killed somebody or something. Yeah.

Clip:  I couldn’t even figure him out because he looked like some kinda, like, jungle guy or something. Like, he was dirty and his hair was all matted with dirt and stuff, and he was kinda like running around like a caveman. Yeah. It was all very bizarre and then the police finally get up there to him and they shoot him with these fully automatic machine guns that they carry, but he doesn’t die. It and you already you already mentioned that these engineers, like, I guess this is a clever idea. I can’t imagine where they came up with it, but it’s really kind of the basic premise for the movie is that when these engineers get injured, their injuries turn into deadly weapons. So, like, his arm gets cut off by the gunfire, and then his arm turns into, like, an extendo arm with a chainsaw on

Craig:  the end of it. Yeah. And when he

Todd:  and when he says extendo arm, we’re talking like if the chainsaw could shoot out from his arm Yeah. By, like, a tendon or something to it. It’s it’s very much like Cronenberg type body humor, but It is. Mixed with a video game, essentially.

Clip:  It’s so weird. And at this point, we have had no explanation, so we don’t have any idea what’s going on. And I’m like, what the hell? This is so weird. And this. So then he’s, like, chopping off, you know, all these cops heads. And this whole movie is just absolutely saturated in blood. Like, I wish that I had been able to find more trivia because I wish that I knew how many gallons of fake blood were used in this movie because it’s just it’s it’s lit it’s virtually raining blood the whole movie. Yeah.  And, like, people will have appendages cut off and stand there for 3 or 4 minutes while blood just gushes out of them, like, more blood than could ever actually be in a human body. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, it’s interesting visuals, I guess.

Todd:  Well and you had mentioned earlier kung fu films, and this is a kind of a stylistic now not not all kung fu films are like this, but there are some kung fu films that that actually are stylized this way where, blood you know, like, a person will get a limb cut off, and then it’s like a spray of blood that comes out of the arm like like a hose, you know. Right. Like a quick spray usually is what it is. If you’ve seen Kill Bill, there’s there’s a scene in there, like, the first part of the movie is, like, more like a samurai film than this or kung fu film. The second part of the movie is more like a western. But, you might remember a big, action sequence in there with Lucy Liu and and, Uma Thurman and all that. That was kinda the the climax of the first film, and that had the very same very same, borrowed the same style, where people get their arms cut off and there would just be, like, blood spraying out of their arms or their necks or whatever, just like like ridiculously, you know, with force. Yeah.  Like a geyser.

Clip:  Yeah. That’s good. That’s good. I couldn’t come up with anything that it was like. But But now that you remind me of that, yes, if you’ve seen that, it’s very much like that.

Todd:  But this is that times, like, you know, a 100.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah. And okay. So then what’s her Roku? Ruka? Ruka. Ruka? Ruka is sitting in her police car, like, while all this is going on. And then out of nowhere, she pulls up her sleeve and you see that she’s got cutting scars on her arm, and she pulls out this razor blade and just starts hacking away at her arm. Like, not like little, you know, cuts or whatever, but, like, she’s, like, just hack and slashing at her arm, which is weird and random. And then when the TV girl is like, Ruka, it’s an engineer.  We need your help. Like, she jumps out of the car, and then her arm is fine. Like, I don’t even She, like, bandaged. She doesn’t make any sense. So she goes up there, and she fights with this bad guy. And, like, there are all of these huge fight scenes, which is fun, you know? Mhmm. But so eventually, she cuts him down, with a gun. I don’t I don’t remember it, but somehow she cuts him down.  With her her sword. Was it her sword? Yeah. She uses a sword a lot.

Todd:  And his own chainsaw a little bit. Yeah. His chainsaw got a lot of action in this in this scene.

Clip:  When she’s done, once she’s cut him down, she takes a little while to do, like, some badass posing,

Craig:  like That’s right. Like, the

Clip:  camera just stays on her while she poses for a while in these badass moves. It didn’t remind me necessarily of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but in that same vein, like, here I am. Like, I’m the badass chick who’s gonna take care of everything and look at how badass I am. It also gave me vibes throughout of, Charlie’s Angels a little bit.

Todd:  Yes.

Clip:  Yes. Like if Charlie’s Angel Charlie’s Angels went, you know, crazy and super gory, it kinda had that feel to it. Charlie’s Hell’s Angels or something. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s just a mismatch mishmash, isn’t it, of things? But but it’s consistent. I mean, it’s it’s not It is. It’s not a we you know, there’s some movies where they just throw everything in the kitchen sink at you, but this this movie definitely has a style, definitely makes Yeah. Choices, and definitely creates a world for you, I think very quickly.

Clip:  Yeah. And it took me a while, okay, but then it gets I know this. At some point, you get some exposition when we go back to, like, police headquarters or whatever, and there’s this creepy ass coroner. It’s like Igor. Yeah. He’s got like an eye patch and he’s fat and hunched over and he’s he’s like dissecting the body of this bad guy that, the girl had just killed and he explains that what these engineers are. They don’t really know what they are except for that, like, their bodies can modify and when they’re injured, they their bodies, you know, turn into these deadly weapons or whatever, and he says every one of them that we’ve killed, we we have found this key shaped tumor inside and the they’re virtually indestructible, but if you can remove or disable that tumor, then you can kill them. And so from that point on, I’m like, okay.  I I kinda get what’s going on here, but up till then, I was I was in the dark.

Todd:  Yeah. I think that’s what’s kinda nice about this movie is that, you know, it it lays things out for you slowly, but it keeps things interesting while it’s doing it. I mean, there’s really never a dull moment in this film. No. Well, maybe the next moment’s dull. She goes to the Bob, a little bar. It’s just a one woman bar. It looks like it’s in her kitchen.  And, we get a little backstory there too. We flashback to the bar owner when, she found Ruka as a girl. So we know that Ruka is troubled. We’ve seen Ruka, a flashback to cutting herself in an alleyway, some kids making fun of her, and then this woman who owns this bar coming in and kind of rescuing her, taking her under her wing, so now Ruka goes to this bar all the time. And at this point, I thought, oh, she’s an orphan or something. This woman took her in, But, no, later on, we find out that, we get another flashback where, she goes back to the station, and instantly, something seems wrong. She’s in what seems to be I mean, the station is pretty empty. The state the interior of the station is almost like a parking garage.  There’s probably other rooms where people do work, but we’d never see it, which is No. Interesting. Anyway, she there’s this really tense moment and scene where it looks like there’s some monster coming towards her. It’s a guy. It’s in shadow, big and hulky, and he looks kind of like the cops do with the samurai type policeman’s helmet, but he has these huge horns coming out

Craig:  of it.

Todd:  Mhmm. And, dog girl is attached to a leash coming alongside of him. It is a weird

Clip:  It is super weird, but, like, stylistically, it’s kind of cool. Like it’s it’s disturbing to see, like, when we say dog girl, what it is, it’s this woman who’s like clothed almost from the top of her head to the bottom of her feet in leather and bondage and, like, I don’t like metal and she appears to be amputated at her elbows and knees, so she’s just crawling around like a dog on her elbows and knees. And this this guy, the big horny guy is what I called him, got he’s got her on a chain like a dog, and it’s really weird, and it’s really menacing at the you know, in this moment, and you think, oh my gosh. Here’s gonna be a big fight. And then all of a sudden, all the lights turn on and the big horny guy is happy birthday, Ruka. And it’s her birthday celebration, and all the cops in that precinct or whatever are celebrating her birthday. And not only is it her birthday, but it’s also the celebration of her 50th engineer kill. Yeah.  And so she’s she’s being decorated for that, and it threw me off because, okay, like, when the guy seemed like he was going to be a bad guy, then it made sense that he would have, you know, a little person dog. But then all of a sudden he’s a good guy, and I’m supposed to be like, wait. I guess that’s okay that you have a little person dog.

Todd:  Well, this is your first indication, aside from, you know, the videos that show that the police are violent, that the police are just completely sick in Yeah. You know, that there really are the law in here, and everything’s kind of been turned upside down. I guess it’s since the engineers came, maybe. I don’t know. I got the sense that maybe I thought at first that this might be an engineer that he had caught and made his pet, you know, in some weird, sick way. But Yeah. I don’t know if that holds up. Anyway, yeah.  They they had the as soon as they say happy birthday, we get another flashback to her, childhood when her father came home and, was celebrating her 12th birthday. And her mother’s in the kitchen, but she’s her back is to us, and she’s cutting daikon. After a little while, she her mother kinda freaks out and turns around and and and clearly her mother’s been cutting herself as well with a knife, and she kinda wrestles with her dad. And so they’re really setting this up, this troubled childhood where her mother obviously had issues, and she has taken those issues on herself with her own cutting. Then, of course, her dad was killed in right in front of her. We’ve seen that from a previous flashback. I think the idea then is that this after those two things happened, because she was still kind of a kid, this woman at this bar became her surrogate mother because she calls her mama, like, once or twice in there. So this is this this this relationship here is how this is.  I thought that the transitions here were really quite good from scene to scene, very creative. Because, for example, in this case, it shows a close-up on, I think, her mother’s arm with all the cuts. And then suddenly, we get a close-up on another arm where red rope crisscrossed across it, is being unwound. And now we are back in present day, which which threw me off, but I I didn’t realize it was present day, but it is. We’re back in present day, and there’s a guy with a with a child prostitute in a in a room.

Clip:  Yeah. See now okay. Fine. Artistic transitions, fine. But it jumped from scene to scene so much that I had, like when it jumped to this scene, I was like, what is happening? Like, yeah, it cuts to this, like, prostitute scene, like, this very young prostitute with this gross Todd fat guy, and, like, there are these close ups on this dildo. Like Yeah.

Todd:  That’s, like, spitting around. Its batteries are still going.

Clip:  And, like, the camera will, like, show us the people, and then it will cut back to the dildo and then show us the people and then back to the dildo. And I’m

Craig:  like, what? Like, I don’t even understand. I don’t know

Clip:  who these people are. Oh, I’m just gonna say it because there’s no easy way to get around my own personal ignorance, I guess, but I don’t think all Asian people look alike. But if I’m not given, like Yes.

Todd:  I know what you’re saying.

Clip:  Ruka Ruka, I can recognize her because she’s a distinctive character. But then when we cut to characters I don’t know, I’m like, who are these people? Yeah. Is this somebody that I’m supposed to remember? Because if it is, I don’t remember who it is. Well

Todd:  and then in this case, when we came from a flashback scene where Ruka was a kid, and then you’re flashing immediately Todd without any I mean, it’s just like you said, it’s just jumping to a new scene, and it this is also a kid. I wondered if this wasn’t also Ruka at first. I thought maybe we were still on a flashback at a different scene. It turns out we’re not. But you’re right. It it is confusing that way, maybe even deliberately so.

Clip:  Well, yeah. And then there there are scenes late like, there’s a scene later on in the movie where these two women are fighting, and maybe you can explain it to me because it seemed like it was important, and I had no idea who those women were. Like I know what you’re talking about. Okay. I guess we’ll I guess we’ll get there. But, anyway, the so we’re then we’re in this brothel and, basically, what it comes down to is there’s this madam who, makes appointments for these young Asian prostitutes over her phone. People call her or, you know, electronically text her or whatever, and she sets up these rendezvous with these women. And they’re like, it’s it’s S and M and and, you know, kinky stuff.  And she ends up going into, I guess, a public toilet. She notices that there’s a creepy guy behind her, And this guy grabs her and, like, puts a knife to her neck and and she’s saying, you know, if you want a girl, I can get you a girl, but I’m not available. You really should make appointments over the phone. But then but then he kills her by inserting these sharp tubes into her body and collecting her blood for reasons that I don’t understand.

Craig:  Yeah.

Clip:  And, then Ruka gets a call that she needs to go to this crime scene, and when they go to the crime scene, this woman’s body is broken and folded into this small cardboard box with all of these vials of her blood, around her And I feel like there’s something with, like, the key, like, they know that one of their engineers has done this or something. Gosh. I don’t know. It’s so confusing. Help me out here, Todd.

Todd:  Well, it it it it follows the pattern because, even in the beginning, the guy, who had, cut up the the the person up on the roof, had put all the body in the body parts into a box, and, I think there were some blood vials or something. Anyway, yeah, you’re right. They’re standing around. They’re looking at it. They’re saying this follows the pattern. It has to be an engineer that did this. Then, Yuko basically goes on the subway. What I think what’s happening here is that we’re supposed to start, like, the the the chief is saying, okay.  Now it’s really becoming a problem with these guys. We need to be more, aggressive at getting all of these engineers. And so he sends Yuka back out, and Yuka goes on a subway. The impression that I got is that Ruka had to pose as a prostitute. Right?

Clip:  I Like because this this engineer was targeting prostitutes

Craig:  Oh. So they

Todd:  sent That’s right.

Clip:  I think that’s what it was. So they sent her out dressed slutty like a prostitute to try to find this guy.

Todd:  Actually, that makes sense. I missed that part. That makes total sense. Because as she’s on the Craig, it you know what’s kinda fun about this movie too is it is so Japanese. Like, there’s so many Japanese things in here. Like, the child prostitution thing is is a real thing. You know? I mean, they’re still dealing with this right now in Japan. There’s still a weird level of acceptance in Japanese society of sexual activity and sexualizing, fetishizing young girls.  I mean, it’s it’s open. They’re, like, the last developed country in the world to, like, pass laws against it. I think just it’s only a few years ago that it became illegal to own to possess child pornography in Japan.

Clip:  Oh, my gosh.

Craig:  I mean,

Todd:  this is a country where

Craig:  you can

Todd:  go and you get, like, school girls panties out of a a vending machine, you know.

Clip:  Ew. I don’t wanna talk about that anymore. Woah. You’re educating me on things that I don’t wanna know.

Todd:  I didn’t know. You didn’t know this. It’s funny. Yeah. No. It’s, yeah. It’s fun and as wacky as Japan could be. It has its dark side, and this this movie just kind of, like, visits all like, checks the boxes, essentially.  And then one of them is the groping on the trains. This is another common problem to the point where they actually have cars for women only in Japan. So, yeah. This guy’s tried gropes her on the Craig, and so he she takes him off the train down into an, I don’t know, an alley or something like that, chops off both of his arms, all both of his hands, and and then opens a parasol. And this is, you know, when the blood is raining down, and she opens a pair I thought this was simultaneously really funny and and and sick and beautiful at the same time, this scene.

Clip:  Yeah. It’s funny that you say that because I thought the same thing. I mean, he’s standing behind her with his severed arms held up in the air just gushing blood, so it’s raining blood. And she’s walking in the foreground towards the camera with her parasol and it’s in slow motion. And it is. I mean, from a cinematography perspective, it’s it’s a beautiful shot. I actually thought that that scene was really kind of satisfying. Mhmm.  You know? And that Yeah. Here’s this creeper. And, like, it’s not like he did any not that it’s okay to grope people, but a relatively minor crime considering, you know, other things, but, that he got his comeuppance. I I just thought it was a satisfying scene. Random and there’s lots of random things, like, beef even before that happens, she’s on the train and she’s looking around and, like, I assume, you know, she’s looking for the engineer. She’s looking for somebody who would be interested in her as a prostitute or whatever. But then there’s this I thought it was a girl. I couldn’t really tell if it was a girl or a guy, but, like, this punk kid, standing on the train eating bugs.  And then they do, like, an extreme close-up of this kid’s mouth, and, like, not only is he or she eating bugs, but, like, just allowing the ooze to, like, dribble out of his or her mouth for no reason.

Craig:  Like, what was what was the point of that? To be honest. I don’t even understand what was happening.

Clip:  It reminded me of, what was the movie that we watched? The boxer. The boxer. Yeah. Yeah. It reminded me of that when the guys were eating all the rotten food. Oh, man.

Todd:  It’s weird. I think that guy was supposed to be a suspicious character, you know, like, oh, maybe he’s the one. And also, this is a weird futuristic world where somebody can just sit and eat a tin full of bugs on the, you know, train and nobody nobody nobody notices. Then, she goes back to the train, and then it’s, like, just her on there. And then when she looks up, suddenly, there’s a creepy guy in front of her, and we can recognize this as, looks like it’s the same guy who killed the madam earlier because he’s got the long, scraggly hair.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  And they end up, they end up with a fight scene, big long fight scene in a hallway. I guess they jump off the Craig. They end up in some hallway somewhere. Mhmm. And again, like you said, the fight scenes there are a lot of fight scenes in this movie, and they’re pretty cool. They’re very stylized. They’re very staged. I thought they were very satisfying.  They were really thrilling and fun to watch. And then, of course, because, you know, when these people get injured, weird stuff happens. Mhmm. It’s it’s even more interesting because you’re kinda wondering what’s gonna happen next. And she slices this guy’s head through the eyes and toward the back. So takes off, like, the top portion of his head. And out of the top, he kinda turns around. And when he comes back, his brain is exposed.  This is, like, grown back. And instead of eyes now, coming out of his eyes are 2 large gun barrels. Oh, so so so weird. You know, he said the director said that he was looking at some Salvador Dali paintings, and that’s what kind of inspired his the germ of the idea for this film.

Clip:  I can see that. That makes sense. Yeah. And so then, Gun Eyes, which is what I will refer to him from now on. Gun eyes, like, shoots, it’s not even bullets and, like, these effects are kind of weird. Like, I don’t I don’t even know, like, he’s kinda, like, shooting, like, fleshy

Todd:  Yeah.

Clip:  Weird stuff out of the guns and

Craig:  Yeah.

Clip:  But he does. He shoots yeah. I guess. He shoots out what kind of almost looks like bone shards that pin her, Ruka, to the wall. And he comes up and he pulls out one of those tumor keys. And he puts it he, like, puts it up to her arm and a little keyhole appears when the key gets close to her arm. And he puts it in there and he turns it and, like, her flesh splits open, and then it just cuts away. I I I think it cuts to her in the hospital, like, she doesn’t know exactly what’s happened to her and and then they end up back at the, precinct slash warehouse wherever they work.  They’re examining the top part of this guy’s head that she chopped off and the creepy coroner is like, well, I didn’t find the key in there and the fact that he’s still alive after having the top part of his face chopped off probably indicates that he’s an engineer, so he’s probably still out there. And the chief of police, who’s also there, is adamant. He’s like, ‘Ah, these engineers, we have to exterminate them all, like, exterminate them all. And Ruka is standing there with kind of a trepidatious look on her face. And the indication I got, which ends up being true, is that because the key was put into her, is that she is an engineer now too, which is why she’s concerned about exterminating, all the engineers.

Todd:  Right. The exterminator is now the exterminatee. And Right. It’s a pretty typical trope too, but an interesting interesting turn of events that nobody saw coming. Right?

Clip:  Right. Right.

Todd:  Now this next part, was very confusing to me because just like you said earlier, I, like, I didn’t recognize this guy at first.

Clip:  I didn’t either. Later, we find out, okay,

Todd:  he was one of the cops. I guess Right.

Craig:  He’s

Todd:  one of the cops who’s been hanging around. And we just get to follow him for a while. He just goes on a bender. It’s like he’s depressed or he’s trying to relax, and he normally shoots up or he’s normally a drug user. At least, he gets into the seedier parts of town, I guess, on his off hours. And, so he’s kinda hanging out. He’s, talking about how he wants speed.

Clip:  Okay. Good. Alright. Now I hadn’t put together that those 2 people were the same people until this morning when I was reading about it. And and you’re right. He is talk he, like, he’s super tired. Like, he pulled an all nighter, and he wishes he had some speed. But then it goes to a new scene, and I didn’t recognize that this was the same guy at all because he’s he’s dressed up like a pimp, and he’s, like like, strolling down the street

Craig:  like a

Clip:  pimp and, like, grabbing his junk and stuff. And it’s I I just I was getting ready to cut you off because you’re like, well, he’s just hanging out and, like, you can’t just he’s he visits the seedier parts of town. Yeah. Seedy and that he goes into, like Yeah. The weirdest, most bizarre bordello Yeah. That you can possibly imagine.

Todd:  Oh my god. This scene this I was eating chicken?

Clip:  Oh Todd. I can’t believe you were eating while you were

Todd:  watching this movie. I had to put it down at this point. I had to put

Craig:  my chicken down at this point.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. It’s well, it’s like a big party type, atmosphere. Everybody’s making out with each other. It’s really crowded. It’s it’s seedy. It’s dingy. Loud music playing.  And there are all these mutant kind of people in there. Well, like, some people are clearly just dressed up, and some people maybe have have piercings and tattoos or just Todd modifications, but I think the implication was at least a few of the people here are maybe engineers or at least

Clip:  Yeah. They they have to be. It’s weird. And for some reason, Ruka is looking for one of these girls, and the only reason that I know that is because she has, like, a file with a picture of this girl who’s you can see her exposed breasts and she doesn’t have any nipples and it it it almost looks like an incision, like her nipples have been removed, but then it’s not reconnected with, stitches, but it’s like teeth. Yeah. Like her boobs have teeth. Yeah. And it’s all these Kinda sexy though.  Okay.

Craig:  I think I have a doctor’s appointment. We’re gonna have to reschedule this.

Clip:  Alright. Oh, man. You you might wanna consider editing that out. But whatever, you know, whatever you’re into, that’s cool. But it’s all these mutant folks, and it it looks like it’s kinda like an auction block, I guess.

Craig:  It’s great. It’s it’s great.

Todd:  It’s like it’s like a reveal. It’s like, it’s almost like it’s a go go bar or whatever. Yeah. And and the go go dancers are the prostitutes because they have numbers carved on them. And, the owner or the emcee or whatever goes up to the first one and reveals her. And it’s it’s her. Right? She’s the first one. Right? The girl you just described,

Clip:  I think. Maybe. I don’t know. There’s there’s a few of them.

Todd:  And and like you said, like, that’s kind of her only thing is that cut incision with the teeth on her boobs or whatever. Then it goes to reveal the next one. The next one’s, like, even a little bit more elaborate. This girl has, is almost like a a snail. She has a big Yeah. Like, shell on her back, and her eyeballs are on the end of stems, and she’s kind of crawling

Clip:  around. Test tubes?

Todd:  Yeah. It’s super gross and weird. Then she reveals, it’s like, here’s the first one. Alright. Here’s the second one now. Here’s the grand prize. And she opens up the next one, and it is an organic looking chair. It is like a a woman’s skin has fused and wrapped itself around the Craig.  But it’s breathing. And the kind of like where those where the crotch would be on here is a little oh, I don’t know. What’s the name of that flood? What’s An orchid. Orchid thing, whatever. It starts pissing on the crowd.

Clip:  And they’re loving it. They’re like, yeah.

Todd:  Oh, yeah. It’s like a beast now.

Clip:  Be showered in urine. It’s a

Todd:  giant golden shower in there. Wow. Yeah.

Clip:  It it’s really gross. It’s really it it reminded me a little bit of society. Like Yes. Just this weird body horror. As weird as it is, I have to give it credit. I mean, it’s it’s it looks great. It’s disturbing. Like, I’m watching it, like, you know, out of the side of my eye kind of cringing, like, oh my god.  But if you’re looking at it from a technical perspective, it looks fantastic. Oh, it’s wonder. Like, it’s really good.

Todd:  I mean and you know, honestly, I just I thought it was creative and clever and Todd, and I really I mean, to say you enjoy it, you know, is I thought it it really made the movie. You know, you’re thinking of the thing, anything Cronenberg has done, Videodrome. I mean, this is all, like, in that same vein. It really is a society. Absolutely. I I I don’t know. I just like, I really dug it, and I think that if the effects had not been so good, I wouldn’t have liked it as much,

Clip:  You know? Oh, sure. Absolutely.

Todd:  And this this next scene is the best scene in the movie as far as I’m concerned.

Clip:  Oh my god. It is a really good scene, but I think I’ll have nightmares about it for the rest of my life. Yeah. That’s why it’s so good. It’s a really good scene, but it’s so uncomfortable. Okay. So this cop, he orders number 69, who is the booby teeth girl. And so, like, she goes back into this room where all of these and she straps him into this chair and I guess I get what you’re saying when because she’s a hot lady, except for the booby teeth.  She’s a very beautiful woman and it’s very seductive, you know, like, she’s she’s strapping him down and then she kneels between his legs and starts to go down on him. And at that time, out of the corner of his eye, he notices that there’s somebody else in the room and it’s GunEyes. And as soon as he notices that Gun Eyes is there, he, like, you know, takes a surprised inhalation of breath and number 69 bites his dick off and spits it out on the floor. Oh my god. Seriously, nightmares for life.

Todd:  And he’s sitting there and his dick is spraying blood just like we’ve seen arms, legs, things

Craig:  of free blood. Also horrible. It’s horrible.

Todd:  It’s horrible, but oh my gosh.

Clip:  And then the the the the guy, Gun Eyes, comes and is, like, we’re gonna start the body transfiguration procedure. And he just, like, starts drilling into this guy’s ankles. Yeah. That was weird. It it was weird, and I’m not really sure why he was doing that. But, the guy is fighting, obviously, but he’s strapped into this chair, but he breaks one of the straps and he is armed because he’s a cop. So he pulls out his, little handheld machine gun and he goes to shoot Gun Eyes, but the hooker, number 69, jumps in front. And so she gets sprayed with gunfire and, she gets cut in half from her waist down.  Now we know how the engineers work, you know, when they lose a part of their body or they get injured or whatever, it turns into some sort of deadly weapon. Well, this woman’s

Craig:  god.

Clip:  He goes he goes the the guy, the John, the cop, goes running out into the hall, but he’s kinda crawling and stumbling around because the stump of his dick is still sticking out of his pants. And I I and, so he’s sitting out there in the hall and she comes out the door head first, so she just looks like her normal self. But then when she comes all the way out, she’s on the ground and she’s, like, dragging the lower part of her body and the whole lower part of her body has turned into, like, a crocodile mouth or, like, you know, an Audrey 2 from Little Shop of Horrors.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. It’s like a mermaid.

Craig:  And she

Clip:  and she just she scoots around the floor and, like, scoots at him really fast and her vagina mouth starts chomping on him. Oh, God. Listen, I have to tell you, I try not to go here too often, but as a gay man, this just is the epitome of why why I am a homosexual.

Todd:  Oh, do explain.

Clip:  Because because because somewhere somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind, that’s just how I picture the vagina in general. Lady lady listeners out there, listen. I get it. It’s a beautiful thing. But when I think about it, that’s what I see.

Craig:  It’s a

Todd:  giant crocodile mouth. Oh, this little guy. Well, he gets it.

Clip:  If any if any movie were ever gonna turn me straight, it’s certainly not this one. Oh, man.

Todd:  It is hilarious. Oh, this I loved that scene. Oh, it’ll the you know what I loved about that scene aside from the I mean, it’s so Cronenberg. It’s so Cronenberg. David Cronenberg did a movie, the the premise of the movie was that she had this kind you know, she had teeth and a kind of a mouth, but it was in her armpit, not her vagina.

Craig:  Not her vagina.

Clip:  There’s there’s there is a movie, called Teeth, which is about vagina dentata, which is also a horror movie. It it was actually pretty good. We should watch that sometime. But let’s not get too let’s not get too hung up on the crocodile vagina lady. Alright.

Todd:  Because there’s more to talk about. It may not be sexy. It may be a little sexy. Oh my god.

Clip:  I’m so sorry. Grossing me out, Sam.

Craig:  I totally got it. It

Todd:  it may not be sexy, but it is an awesome effect. It is. It’s really cool. They show it all to you. Like, they’re they’re not doing a ton of, like, extreme close ups and quick cuts and I mean, they do a lot of that in this movie, but then they’re not afraid to just show you the full on effects. You know? Yeah. And they do it a lot and it looks good, and it’s convincing, and it’s scary, and it’s gross, and it’s wonderful.

Clip:  It really is. I mean, as disgusting as it is, the effect is really good. Like, there’s a point where she’s laying on the floor and I can only imagine that this actress just had the lower part of her legs tucked up under into this into this like costume piece, but there’s a part where she just spreads her legs wide open, so it’s just like this gaping maw of a mouth. And and, like, it’s it is creepy and it’s scary and it it looks really good. Mhmm. I mean, in a terrible disgusting way.

Todd:  Feed me, Seemal. Well, hell. We’re from here we go. I mean, to me, the movie’s over. The movie’s over from this point. This is my favorite movie. Nothing tops that.

Clip:  I don’t remember exactly the sequence of how things happen, but at this point, so that guy, the cop guy, gets turned into an engineer, at this point and he goes and kills a bunch of cops, and then that sparks and eventually himself gets killed also, and that sparks the police chief to be, like, we have to exterminate all the engineers. Anybody who’s even suspicious. Yeah. Anybody even suspicious. But I feel like even before that, Ruka finds somehow she tracks down Gun Eyes and she goes to his apartment and they sit down and have a conversation where we get the true story, which this is actually what I found most interesting. As I was, you know, the whole movie is so gonzo and wacky, but then when they sit down together and we find out the backstory, it really kind of makes sense as a plot. This this guy says okay. So he starts telling this hypothetical story.  There was this guy once and he was a great sniper and, he worked for the police and he was an excellent sniper. He never missed anybody, whatever, but then there was a job that went wrong where he didn’t get the bad guy and the bad guy shot him and so he was let go from the police force, and he this guy, the sniper, had a son who was a genius, but because the sniper was now unemployed, they couldn’t afford to pay for the son’s education. So his former boss, the sniper’s former boss came to him with an offer for a hitman job and, it was enough money that it would pay for the son’s education. So the sniper had to take this deal and he took the deal and it turns out that, the guy that he was supposed to kill was Ruka’s dad, and the reason that they wanted Ruka’s dad killed was because Ruka’s dad was leading protests against the privatization of the police force. So as it turns out, it’s the chief of police, the one that we’ve known through the whole movie, is the one who hired the sniper to kill Ruka’s dad, which Ruka never knew. Gun eyes is like I was the sniper’s son, but as soon as he had done the job they were supposed to do, they killed him. I was in I’m I’m gun eyes now. I was in school and I was studying genetic engineering and I was studying the genes of, like, psycho killers.  And so he took, like, all these genes of all these famous psycho killers like Guine and Manson and all these folks and he injected them all into himself and it kinda made him go crazy to the point where he jumped off a building and he said, I don’t know if I died or what happened, but I ended up in front of this great big giant door and when he opened the door, this little devil, this little short guy with a little these little horns, opens the door and hands him one of those key tumors and he says, and then I woke up and I was alive and I didn’t know what happened, but I had this key tumor and I studied it and it turns out that it was, you know, like the psycho killers genes, but way more potent and so I replicated it and I put it in myself and I put it in other people and that’s who the engineers are and he’s trying to convince her the engineers aren’t the bad people, it’s the police who are the bad people and we have to go after the police and he’s appealing to her saying, it’s not about revenge at this point, you know, the guy that killed your dad is already dead, so we need to go after the guy who made the guy kill your dad, which is the police chief, and he’s, like, so let’s work together. And so she stands up and pulls out her samurai sword and chops him straight

Craig:  down the middle and

Clip:  and and then says, thank you for telling me.

Craig:  It’s great.

Clip:  But I really liked this scene and then I liked the the subsequent scenes because we’ve seen all of these commercials about, you know, how brutal and violent the police force are. But even with all that brutality and violence, it really seemed like they were going after the bad guys. But as it turns out, the police are just this corrupt military force, who are not concerned about protecting the citizens. They’re really only concerned and it’s all corrupt. And so then the last part of the movie becomes Ruka standing up against that establishment.

Todd:  Yeah. We get, mama from the bar who gets pulled in basically quartered, you know, tied up Right. To 4 different cars, and she sees that happen, then she gets pissed off and kills all those cops. We see all this violence being committed against random citizens and things, and Haruka might come in. And then I think we come to the 2 women who you were not sure who they were.

Clip:  Yeah. I don’t know who they were.

Todd:  Now I don’t know who the woman was who was the police officer who came out of the police station with that long sword or whatever, but I’m pretty sure that the other girl, because she was a girl, who had the long knife as her arm, was the prostitute, was the child prostitute from before.

Clip:  Okay.

Todd:  I think she was.

Clip:  Yeah. That makes sense.

Todd:  Yeah. So they had this big fight. I I don’t remember how that turns out. Anyway, it’s just like little fights here, little fights there.

Clip:  Major police brutality, you know, like they’re just pulling citizens off the street and shooting them at random, like, it’s super violent and gross.

Todd:  And they’re laughing, and I mean, it’s it’s completely over the Todd, completely over the top. Oh oh, my one of my favorite scenes was when mama was in the bar, and, she it was before she gets captured. She has a broken bottle, and she shoves it in the guy’s face. She twists it around a little bit and stuff and kills him so he falls to the ground. And then she blows in the end of the bottle and out pops that, like, circular part of his face from the end of the bottle.

Clip:  Yeah. And she smiles. It’s hilarious.

Todd:  Steps on it. There’s there’s a lot of humor. It like, really dark humor in this. There’s it’s just filled with it. It’s a lot of visual gags like this, and whatnot. Anyway, we get to the end and Ruka faces off against The dog girl. The dog girl first. The dog girl, like you said, now now has knives.

Clip:  Yeah. She has swords as her legs first. Well, like, Ruka goes back to the police station and, like, on an, like, a speaker system, the captain’s like, oh, so now you know the truth. You know, I I had to do it or whatever, but I raised you like my own and, like, he’s trying to guilt her or whatever. And then she goes in and he’s there with the dog girl who now has swords for legs. And they have a huge, like, matrix style fight where this dog lady is jumping up on the walls and the ceiling, and it’s it’s awesome.

Craig:  It’s really awesome. It’s it’s

Clip:  really cool. But she takes out the dog girl and then the chief is, like, how can you kill me? I raised you. I’m like your father and she doesn’t even say anything and, they fight, and she ends up chopping off his legs. And then he shoots himself up with some what was that all about? Do you know?

Todd:  I don’t know. I really don’t know. He had something in it that that was on the dog girl the whole time, actually. Pulled them off of her. It was, like, 4 syringes full of some green stuff. And I don’t remember seeing this at all previously in the movie. But my guess was that maybe he, all along, had some way of turning himself into one of these engineers if he needed Todd, if the time came.

Clip:  I wondered. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, That that doesn’t add up exactly because it doesn’t really turn him into an engineer, but what it does is from his bloody stumps where she has cut off his legs, now the blood is coming out so quickly that it’s like a jetpack for him. So he can, like, fly around the room on his jetpack leg. So great. It it I mean, it’s it’s cool. You can’t argue with it.  It doesn’t make any logical sense, but it’s it’s cool. It’s a cool idea. Yeah. And, so they fight some more, but she ends up killing him, and that’s pretty much it. It it cuts to, the same commercial for the police that we’ve seen, but then at the end of the commercial, it’s like, you know, the film burns away and behind it is Ruka standing there like a badass, like she’s ready to go into battle all these bad cops. And now dog girl is, like, her dog girl. Instead of swords instead of swords for legs, she has machine guns for legs. And it’s it’s an awesome tableau.  Like, it’s a great image. You know, this dystopian kind of, you know, wrecked up city in the background, and then Ruka standing there like a badass and the machine gun legged dog girl right behind her. And then it it cuts to black and, just in great big huge letters, it says something like, more gore coming soon or or something along those lines. Yeah. And then there’s there’s, like, a a credits scene where we see that, Gun Eyes is not dead. Somebody, this the young prostitute, with the machete arm, like, put his severed head back on him. So he’s he’s back now. And obviously, they were setting it up for a sequel which I don’t know if that ever happened.  Do you did did a sequel ever happen?

Todd:  One was announced in 2009, but, I don’t think it’s it’s come up it’s come out yet. Or, you know, I don’t know what where it is now. It’s a but it is it’s the kind of movie it’s like a comic book. You know? It’s like a it’s like a video game. They’ve created the world. They’ve created all the rules and things, and you could you could make a sequel after sequel to this Sure. To this kind of thing. It it could be the world’s most bizarre franchise.  It’s not likely to be, but, it fits it fits well within that. If this were animated, it would be on Netflix right now. It’d probably be in season 3.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  I thought it I I found it just fun to watch. I just from beginning to end, I was engaged, I was marveling at the effects. It was so over the top that only a couple times it, like, really kinda turned my stomach. Most of the time I thought it was funny, You know, there was a lot of humor in here. It was just interesting. And like I said, Todd didn’t take too much aside from a little bit of confusion here or there, it didn’t take too much to unpack the story. The story was pretty straightforward. It was easy to follow, and it was, it’s not super original, the premise

Craig:  of Yeah.

Todd:  Just still in future, police gone bad, you know, that kinda thing. But what is super original is

Clip:  story. Right.

Todd:  This whole notion of the body horror aspect of it, you know, with the Yeah.

Clip:  Ultimately, at its core, it’s just kind of like a cop revenge story, which, you know, we’ve seen a bunch of times with. It it it’s kinda like Death Wish where cop has his family hurt or killed and then goes out on this rampage or whatever. So it’s not necessarily original in that way. It’s a fine story, but all of the rest of it, all of the stuff with the body horror and the engineers and all that stuff, it is pretty unique. I’ve never seen anything just like it. I have to say that I had more fun talking about it with you than I actually had watching it. I really think that this is a cultural thing. It was just too out of my lane.  It was odd and bizarre and I just kinda couldn’t I I just couldn’t kinda connect with it. I’m glad to have seen it, and I appreciate it for what it is, and it was fun talking to you about it. But, god, what a weird movie.

Todd:  Would you say I I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a movie with this much blood in it. I don’t I don’t know if I’ve seen a gorier movie than this one.

Clip:  Have you seen the Evil Dead remake?

Craig:  Oh, okay. No.

Clip:  That might well, in any of the Evil Dead films.

Todd:  Yeah. That’s

Clip:  true. You know, there’s there’s tons of blood. But, no. I I can’t imagine. I mean, there’s so much blood splatter in this movie. It’s Craig, but it’s it’s it’s artfully done. And, you know, there are places where this the effects look fantastic, and then there are places where they maybe don’t look so great that you forgive those not so great moments for how good it is in other places. And I don’t know that I would ever watch it again.  No. I do know. I wouldn’t. But, it was certainly interesting and I love it when we do weird different stuff. So it was fun. It was fun to talk about.

Todd:  It sure was. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this one, please share it with a friend. You can find us on iTunes, Google Play, anywhere your favorite podcasts are. You can also find us on Facebook. Like us there, share us with friends, and let us know what movies you’d like us to do in the future. Until the future, I’m Todd, and I’m Greg with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

About a decade after the original shocker, Tobe Hooper directed his sequel starring Dennis Hopper and a whole load of crazies.

We chose this film to finish up our month of notorious #2’s because Hooper and Co. decided to go a completely different direction with a wacky, gory comedy, instead of the shocking straight horror style of the original (which did, truth be told, have its own darkly comedic moments).

Episode 117, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And, we are coming to you a little later this month. I really apologize, but, we hit a it really, originally intended for February to be our month of twos. But, some technical issues on my end delayed our episodes a little bit. But we’re gonna press on with what we planned anyway. And this week, we’re doing the Texas Chainsaw Massacre part 2, which I was super excited about doing.  I know you were too, Craig. I was. We, I don’t think you hadn’t seen this before. Right?

Craig:  No. I had, but only once in a long time ago. Oh, yeah. So I didn’t I didn’t remember much about it except for that it

Todd:  was crazy. That it is. And I, I knew it was crazy. I hadn’t seen it before though. It’s something that as a kid, I’d always wanted to see and I never got around to. As you probably know, if you’ve been listening to us for a while, our goal for this month was really to do number twos that weren’t just ordinary sequels, but things were a little off the beaten path that took the original and did maybe did something crazy with it or went in a different direction. This sequel totally goes off the rails, I would say, especially compared to the original. It came out about 10 years later, actually.  This one is 1980 6, and, it was at that time that Tobe Hooper was given the opportunity to do a sequel to this movie, although kind of been working on the idea for of doing a sequel for quite a while. It was back and forth with this writer, l m Kit Carson, who wrote this screenplay for this movie. The 2 of them just decided they needed to do something completely different with the second one because the first one ended up being so iconic, and so unique and so shocking to people that they knew that it would be really hard to top that by trying to go in the same direction. And so they took a complete left turn and made a comedy out of it. Whereas the original, we’ve done that on this show before as well. You can go back and listen to that, is was pretty shocking for its time. It has some dark comedy in it, of course, but it is really pretty brutal, and brutal in a sense that it doesn’t it’s not super gory. That’s one thing we talked about, but it just the level of violence and the way that people are treated in that movie, is just a bit shocking and adds to the brutality and a lot of the gross stuff that happens, happens off screen.  As opposed to this movie, where they just decided they were gonna they were gonna show it all, just kinda go balls out on the gore. They brought Tom Savini on board. He did some amazing, gore effects for this movie. This movie, I’ve got a lot of mixed feelings about. And so I’m really excited Todd talk to talk about it today.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s interesting. Gosh. I I I don’t know much about the history. Like, I really couldn’t find all that much about it except for the Tobe Hooper, His original concept for it was that it would be about an entire town of Campbells, and he, was gonna call it beyond the valley of the Texas chainsaw massacre. And, I guess, you know, that’s that’s where they started, but after, you know, rewrites and rewrites and rewrites, this is the movie that, they ended up with. And I don’t really have mixed feelings about it at all. It’s just it’s I don’t know, like, it’s kind of in keeping with the first movie in some ways, but they just, like, they just crank the volume up to 11.  Like

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Let’s let’s just go totally kinda crazy wacky with it. And as I was watching this, you know, I’ve seen Rob Zombie’s movies, and I’m specifically referencing House of a 1000 Corpses and The Devil’s Rejects. I’ve seen those movies and I’ve heard that he was very much inspired by, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But in watching this second one, I have to believe that he had to at least have been equally influenced by part 2, because this movie reminds me a lot of House of a 1000 Corpses, with just, like, really interesting over the top set pieces and visuals and just these wacky wacky characters. And, of course, Bill Mosley who, plays Choptop in this movie.

Todd:  He’s so good.

Craig:  He is really good. And then he went on to work with Rob Zombie a bunch of times. Whereas the first one felt very low budget but in a good gritty way, this one, you can obviously tell that it had a bigger budget. This one was made on a budget of, like, 4,700,000, which is, you know, a a pretty good budget for a a a horror film.

Todd:  Oh,

Craig:  yeah. You can tell. I mean, like, it’s just it’s it’s it’s so insane. Like, Dennis Hopper is in it for Todd sakes. Like, and and Dennis Hopper is in this movie just chewing up and spitting out the scenery left and right. Like, it’s hilarious. He’s I don’t I don’t know. What are your thoughts?

Todd:  You know, it’s it’s, it’s interesting. Like, okay. So you gotta compare with the first one. So the first one, like I said, really pretty gritty, pretty gruesome in a sense that it’s just so well done in its documentary kind of feel, in its not showing you on camera all of the bad stuff that’s happening and really letting you fill in the blanks with your imagination, and just sort of the shocking brutality of it. I felt like there was, a kind of reality to it. And I think that’s what a lot of people latched onto is that when a guy’s hit in the head with a sledgehammer, he’s dead. Like Right. It doesn’t take 5 hits for that to happen, you know? It happens once, and and he’s gone.  And then he’s flopping around on the ground a little bit, you know, while he’s dying. I mean, that is that is the kind of stuff we get in the first one. Compare it to this one. You can’t even take it seriously. I and I don’t think you’re No. You’re and I mean, I’ve obviously, people are gonna say, well, you’re not supposed to take it seriously. But there’s there’s a point. You know, there’s a point to which my mind just got a little disengaged while we were watching this movie.  And and I think not in a necessarily a good way, you know. Now, this this has a really troubled production anyway. There is a great I don’t know, Craig, if you’ve seen it, but there is a fantastic serie documentary, a series of short docs that were packaged with the DVD version that you can find on YouTube. I think it’s called It’s All in the Family or something like that. Did you find any of that?

Craig:  No. I didn’t look at it.

Todd:  It’s great because, you know, when you watch this documentary, you they interview most of the original people. Tobe Hooper isn’t interviewed, and this was done before he died because he died fairly recently. But, Kit Carson, the screenwriters interviewed at length. The production designers interviewed, Carolyn Williams who plays the the lead female in this. Bill Mosley’s interviewed. Bill Johnson’s on there. Quite a few people. And what’s really cool about it is that it seems like everybody just had a blast making this movie not that it was easy and not that it wasn’t kind of a grueling exercise but they everybody speaks very highly of their experience on the film, and some of it because it was so stressful.  Like, their production designer talks about how quickly they had to throw these sets together and with such limited budget because the money kept getting taken away from them by their distributors

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  That he said, you know, it was really And I was, like, in this super hot giant warehouse for 36 hours and didn’t see the sunlight and was, you know, we were scrounging from everything trying to put this together. But he he said there was just something really thrilling about that, you know, about that process of being able to do it and get it together. The screenwriter, Kit Carson, writes the whole screenplay, submits it to their distributors, which is Canon Films, which they’ve got a whole history, and we’ve talked a little bit about them before. And they said it’s too too expensive. You need to trim it Todd. But they had to start production on it because they had a deadline. And so he literally had to rewrite the movie as they started shooting it. And they only had, like, 5 or 6 weeks to shoot it.  So he’s on the set day by day writing, and he’s talking about, like, passing out in a typewriter. People are pulling papers out of it, like, in in front of him to get the next shots of the script. He said it was just this manic manic thing, but they were ultimately very proud of what they were managed to put together with all this just to sort of turn around and see the distributors chop it up. And so that was that was sort of the the sad point to it. So it’s like the movie that we’re seeing, you get this other side to it where they’re like, we really enjoyed this process. We really enjoyed working together. It was a great ensemble cast. Everybody was in good spirits.  We’ve managed to sort of pull off the impossible. We felt like we had a really cool movie. And then our producers were idiots, and they said, oh, what’s all this stuff? We wanna just people just wanna see more blood. They wanna see more gore. Right. They took it over, chopped it up, and they there Todd, even Toby Hooper, I looked at a couple interviews with him, is willing to say that they hated the final the final product. They just said that the product that they went in there with and came out, you know, the first cut, they said was just so much better.

Craig:  Well, I I I read that. I read that Canon kept kind of changing the budget on them depending on how the films that they were releasing were doing. So if they released a film that it was doing well, then they would throw a little bit more money at them. But then if another if they released another film and it didn’t do well, then they would take money away. I don’t know exactly how this turned out because I know that there were different cuts. Like, I know that the Todd, when they cut it, it was only, like, 82 minutes or something like that. Well, the the version that I watched, and I assume that you watched, is an hour 41. I also read that when they sent it to the MPAA, the MPAA wanted to x rate it.  So Yeah. They just went with they just went with not rated, instead. So is even this hour and 41 version that we saw, is that still a significant cut?

Todd:  You know, your guess is as good as mine. It’s certainly like, I’m on the IMDB page right now, and it says 101 minutes is the original cut. So this has gotta be kind of extended except for the fact that a lot of the deleted scenes that people talk about are not in this. So it’s not like they inserted a bunch of deleted scenes.

Craig:  Sure. Well, on the deleted scenes, I think, are available on some of the releases, and, I think you can find them on YouTube also. I I didn’t watch any of them. And part of the reason that I didn’t is because at an hour 41, I have so many notes because so much happens. Like, this this movie just it goes and goes and goes and like there’s always something happening. It’s it’s it’s quick paced. There there really aren’t very many lulz and even the things that you might consider lulz, are just so wacky like like Dennis Hopper’s trip to a chainsaw store. Like, that should be that should be really boring, you know, somebody going to buy some chainsaws.  But instead, it’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen in my whole life.

Todd:  Now I have to I have to disagree. I felt like there was a lot of this movie that I just kinda, like, I was waiting for it to be over. And and maybe, you know, maybe if I’d seen the 89 minute cut, it wouldn’t have been quite so bad. But, no. I liked that scene, but there was just some of this just I felt like it needed a good editor.

Craig:  Well yeah. And and and to be fair, in my notes at one point, I’ve got, like, Stretch, who’s our main girl played by, Caroline Williams. There’s one point where she’s just being chased for what seems like 10 minutes and, like, she’s just running down this big hall forever. I’m like, is this ever gonna end? Yeah. And, you know, about about 2 thirds, 3 quarters of the way through my notes, I have, my Todd, there’s still a half an hour left. I know.

Todd:  Dude, I wrote that at 1 hour, Ian. Yeah. I was like, the same way.

Craig:  But I don’t know. It’s it’s it’s really just a wacky movie and and I I found myself pausing so many times to write lines down because the writing I don’t know if you would call it awful or genius. Like like it it just straddles that line. Like, it’s it’s either really bad or it’s hilariously funny. So many lines. And and I’ll quote some of them for you as we go along. But I feel like we should get into the movie. Otherwise, we’re never gonna

Todd:  Yeah. Get all the way through it. Let’s do it.

Craig:  There’s an opening scroll as there is in the first movie and and a voice over. And and the opening scroll is really just a recap of the first movie, and then they at the very end

Clip:  Texas lawmen mounted a month long manhunt but could not locate the McCobb farmhouse. They could find no killers and no victims. No facts. No crime. Officially, on the records,  the Texas chainsaw massacre never happened.  But during the last 13 years, over and over again, reports of bizarre, grizzly chainsaw mass murders have persisted all across the state  of Texas. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre has not stopped. It haunts Texas.

Craig:  And I also just thought that was funny. Like, okay. So did the Texas Chainsaw people who there. I don’t remember if they had the same last name in the first one. I think they did. The Sawyers. They’re the the family. Mhmm.  Did, like, did did they did they hide the house?

Todd:  What did they do with their gas station?

Craig:  Not find it. Yeah.

Todd:  It’s it’s all a bit of a stretch.

Craig:  Yeah. But whatever. Okay. It’s fine. Nice setup. Nice callback to the first movie. It cuts to god. You know, I I say this all the time, but it happens a lot in horror movies.  Then we just get a couple a couple of assholes driving along in a car.

Todd:  I knew you’re gonna say

Craig:  that. And it’s Buzz and Rick. And, apparently, they’re on their way to some big party. I guess this is, a big football weekend in Dallas, which, apparently, this weekend is a real thing. Like, the rivalry between Texas and Oklahoma, I don’t follow sports. But, apparently, it’s a real thing. And, anyway, they’re on their way to this, you know, big game and these big parties or whatever. One of them is, like, shooting a gun, like a handgun out of the car at at everything that they drive by, mailboxes, signs for attractions, whatever.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And, at one point they see it an oncoming truck and they’re like, let’s play chicken and and they run the truck off the road. Meanwhile, they’re calling into this radio station where Stretch, our main girl is the, that’s not her real name, it’s her DJ name, but she is the host of, Call In, a a request line show. And they’re calling her and harassing her and making really terrible jokes. But eventually, you know, this goes on for a while, and then it’s nighttime and they end up on a bridge, and as they’re crossing the bridge, headlights come on from the opposite direction and it’s that truck, the same truck that they ran off the Todd, and the truck starts riding alongside them going in reverse and in the bed of the truck stands up a corpse. This and it dances for them. There’s a lot of dancing in this movie.

Todd:  There is actually. Very good point. The Sawyers have some groove. They do. At this movie could be like this how the Sawyers got their groove back.

Craig:  Right. It could be chainsaw 2, electric boogaloo, like, you know, it’s awesome. And, the corpse ends up being I don’t know that they necessarily ever say this outright. I saw it in the trivia, but it’s it’s the hitchhiker from the first movie. They’ve they’ve saved his body, and it’s dancing around. And it turns out that it’s really Leatherface, like, holding up this corpse in front of him, But he starts, like, sawing up the car as they’re racing down this bridge, and he cuts the driver’s the top of the driver’s head off and and the car crashes, and that’s kind of the setup then for what kind of turns into a cop procedural a it’s just so Craig, like, it’s it’s just the wackiest movie and that’s when, Dennis Hopper shows up and, Todd, what are you gonna say? I mean, Dennis Hopper has said in interviews that this is the worst movie that he’s ever been in. He’s also said that about Super Mario Brothers, and I would agree with him more on the Super Mario Brothers front. But, oh my god.  He you know, Dennis Hopper, I think he must legit in real life be crazy because he just plays it so well that you I can only imagine that he must be a really intense person, but his performance in this movie is something. I tell you what.

Todd:  It is. And it’s funny because about this point where he came in, I just wrote in my notes that they’re laying the Texas on pretty thick

Craig:  in this movie. Oh, yeah.

Todd:  I I lived in Texas for a good six, 7 years, and, I still have family in Texas. I’m pretty familiar with Texas, but I mean, from the beginning when these guys are, like, shooting their revolvers out the window at, you know, driving down the street, this whole, rivalry of Oklahoma and whatever. And then, Dennis Hopper comes in. He’s got a cowboy hat on and this thick Texas accent, and

Clip:  One of those boys so wild Todd his own head off going 90 mile per hour. Hell. Hell is exactly what they raised.

Todd:  This other guy comes up, while he’s investigating the crash, and he must be, the local police or the local sheriff or something. Because you think Dennis Hopper is the sheriff at first. It turns out he’s just a guy who’s interested. And he comes up, and he’s got this awful thick Texas accent as he sends, Dennis Hopper away telling him, basically, oh, your obsession with this chainsaw thing is gone even though you’re I thought he said brother.

Craig:  I think I thought he said, like, your brother and his kids or something like it. Yeah. It’s weird. I mean, I I it’s it’s kind of a tenuous thing, but they try to get us to understand that lefty, Dennis Hopper, has a personal vendetta with these chainsaw killers. Like, they’ve killed somebody in his past and so he’s obsessed with them. Mhmm. And people are well aware

Todd:  of this. His name is lieutenant Enright, and I’m thinking that Enright. That Enright. And as he sends it away, he he looks after him and and says, remember the Alamo, cowboy? And I’m thinking, jeez. Come on. Like, really? And then but later, there’s a there’s a chili cook off. I mean, I think they pretty much squeezed in about all the Texas they could.

Craig:  Yeah. The chili cook off is great. Like, somehow I don’t even remember what it is. I I guess that Lefty somehow gets it in the papers that he’s looking for anybody who can help him with this investigation. So Stretch comes to him at his hotel and is, like, I’ve got this tape because I should’ve mentioned that because this is a request line or whatever. She audio records all the requests, so she’s got the whole road murder on audio cassette. She’s like, I’ve got this tape. It’s evidence.  I wanna help you. And he’s like, nah, little lady. I don’t need your help. And, like, kicks her out. It’s like dump. It doesn’t make any it doesn’t make any sense.

Todd:  He put the ad in the papers so that he could get evidence, and she shows up with evidence, and he turns her away. It’s so stupid. Yeah. He’s like, no. Never mind.

Craig:  But fortunately, in that same hotel, there’s a, chili cook off going

Todd:  on Same hotel. Which

Craig:  she’s also covering because she’s the request line lady, so why wouldn’t she cover a chili market? Radio station. And, yeah, it’s hilarious. And then they’re like, the winner is Drayton Sawyer. And Drayton Sawyer comes marching the barbecue cook in the first movie and he’s there. And it’s such a goofy scene. They’re like

Clip:  This year, Drayton, you’ve got to tell the secret of that fabulously tasty chili. No secret. It’s the meat. Don’t skimp on the meat.

Craig:  I got a real good eye for prime meat. Runs in the family. And then, like, the woman host is eating the chili and she pulls something out of her mouth. Was it a tooth? Was it a human tooth?

Todd:  Or a fingernail or something. Yeah.

Craig:  And he’s like, oh, he grabs out of her hand. He’s like, oh, that’s one of those dern hard pepper corns. Oh, it’s so silly. Then, lefty in right goes to buy chainsaws, and it’s just one of the funniest scenes I’ve ever seen. He walks into this chainsaw store, you know, your local chainsaws. Cut right cut right chainsaws. And he pulls out he pulls out, like, a $1,000 in a $100 bills and just, like, lays them down on a stump and puts his sunglasses down. And then he starts, like, trying out the chainsaws, but he, like, picks them up and he’s like, okay.  Could I samurai fight with this? He starts waving them around, like, hacking them. He picks up one great big one and he swings it around like he’s fighting with it. He’s like, okay. That’s pretty good. And then he picks up 2 smaller ones and he’s got one in each hand and he’s, like, using them like boxing gloves and, like, slashing them all around. The store owner is just looking at him like he’s crazy. So then he just starts to walk out like, I’m sure that $1,000 will will cover this.

Todd:  And the store guy’s like, you’re not gonna leave without trying them out first, are you? He points them to this log at the front, and this guy so Dennis Hopper’s we’re just gonna call him Dennis Hopper. We don’t need to call him lefty, do we? Yeah. Hopper’s got this long it’s it’s a super long chainsaw, one of them. He get 2 short ones and one really long one. And he starts, like you said, hacking. Like like, you don’t use a chainsaw.

Craig:  Yeah. Like, it’s an ax. Like, he’s like And he’s hacking at

Todd:  this at this at this log. It looks so awkward. And it’s supposed to look cool, but it just looks terrible. In the meantime, the store owners giddy with delight watching him do this. Oh, my aching banana.

Craig:  What does that even mean?

Todd:  This this store is, like, out in the middle of nowhere. This cut right chainsaws. And as Dennis Hopper pulls in, there’s a marching band that goes by. I just thought that was so dumb.

Craig:  Yeah. Just like on the dirt road behind them. Like, where are you going? Like, are you on your way to a parade?

Todd:  Like, what’s happening? It’s a bit of a disconnect there.

Craig:  Maybe they’re just practicing.

Todd:  Uh-huh.

Craig:  I don’t know. And Well, then, Inright changes his mind. Apparently, Dennis Hopper changes his mind and goes, to stretch and says, you know what? I changed my mind. Go ahead and play your tape on the radio. So she does. Then we see the cook, Drayton, driving his, like, food truck. Like, he was way ahead of his time. You know, he’s got this awesome barbecue

Todd:  food truck.

Craig:  Somebody calls him on his console car phone. And you you you don’t hear both sides of the conversation. You only hear his sides. He’s like

Clip:  You you you’ve done it again. You much better. You’ll be the best to be yet.

Craig:  He is

Todd:  he is so good in this movie.

Craig:  He’s He’s hilarious.

Todd:  So hilar he is the the charm of this whole film rests on his shoulders.

Craig:  Oh, I agree a 100%.

Todd:  I love every minute he’s on the screen, and everything that comes out of his mouth is so funny. It it’s It is. I just gotta think that some of it had to be ad libbed because he just seems to nail the delivery and all these silly little things that he says. It’s so laced with profanity, but it’s hilarious profanity.

Craig:  Well, and it’s it’s just nice to see him because he’s so recognizable from the first movie and he’s the only person that reprices his role. Leatherface, is played by a new actor. It was, Kane Hodder. It was Kane Hodder in the first movie and they’re dueling stories about this. Kane Hodder says that they offered for him to reprise the role, but they were only willing to pay him scale and and he turned it down. The filmmakers say that they offered him the role, but he waffled on it and so they rescinded their offer. But either way, it’s a new guy, Bill Johnson plays Leatherface in this movie. And the other member of the Sawyer family who is Choptop, played by Bill Mosley, he is supposed to be the twin brother of the hitchhiker from the first movie.  And he looked and and he looks like he could be. I’m like He really is. He’s really reminiscent of, that guy. So, you know, there’s there’s callbacks to the first movie, but it’s just really nice to see Jim Seedow return to his role. And and he looks I mean, what? This is 10, 12 years later or something like that? He looks significantly older, but it’s it’s just nice to see him back. So Stretch, plays the tape and she’s got a technician, a radio technician, his name is LG. She plays the tape and it’s the end of the night. It’s funny because obvious this is the eighties and so radio stations went off the air, you know, and they played The Star Spangled Banner at midnight.  And LG leaves and she’s there by herself. She hears a noise. So she go she leaves the broadcast room and she goes, like, out into the lobby and there’s this weird, super weird guy sitting there, and it it ends up being Chop Todd Sawyer Bill Moseley. He’s just he’s super gross, like, he’s he’s obviously wearing he’s wearing prosthetic teeth, like, these gross nasty teeth and he’s got these big sunglasses on. He’s wearing what is very obviously a wig, you know, he’s disheveled and and just menacing like and Bill Mosley does such a good job. He’s got, like, this nervous energy Yeah. And he’s giggling all the time and laughing plus oh, god. This is in such bad taste.  I can’t believe I’m gonna say this. But he’s got an abortion Todd coat hanger, like, that he keeps sticking it up under his wig and scratching it. And not only that, but he’s heating it with a lighter before he puts it up under his wig and is scratching and you’re, like, what’s going on? And then every once in a while, like, he’ll scratch and then he’ll pick something off the tip and eat it. Like, it’s just so disgusting.

Todd:  It is gross.

Craig:  Yeah. He’s like, you’re my favorite DJ. I just wanted to meet you. Maybe you’ll play a song for me. Maybe you could play that tape you just played a little while ago. Maybe you can give me a copy and you can sign it and it’s a very tense scene and she’s obviously just, you know, trying to get rid of him, but she’s very scared and nervous as you would be because this guy’s clearly nuts. And he’s, like, well, I want a tour of the radio station. And she’s, like, okay.  Well, here’s a desk, Here’s a pen.

Todd:  Here’s a stapler. She’s like, I’ll give you a tour to the exit side. Here’s a desk. Here’s a pen. Here’s a stapler.

Craig:  Here’s a piece of

Todd:  paper, and there’s the exit sign. Right? What’s kind of, like, I you know, and it’s creepy and it’s gross, but there’s this other element too where it’s kind of poorly filmed in that, like, we talked about in a few other films. All she does is kinda stand there. You know? She doesn’t really make moves to leave. She doesn’t really she lets she allows him to get close to her. That part of it kinda bothered me. It is what it is. Right? She’s in a small room with this guy.

Craig:  Right. Exact I mean, I get what you’re saying and I’m not gonna say that Caroline Williams is an amazing actress, but I I thought that in this part, she did a good job of, you know, what do you do? You know, you’re alone in this small confined space with this crazy guy, you know, her her male friend is gone. I don’t think that she was expecting him to come back. He does eventually come back. She’s just trying to get rid of him, and and trying to be as calm as she can to get rid of him. She shows him to the door and they have this tense exchange. Good night. Oh.  Todd night. Good night. Good night.

Clip:  Good night.

Craig:  Good night. I have to say this part actually got me. Oh, yeah. She was she’s standing in front of this doorway. It’s there’s I didn’t see a door. It’s just an open doorway into this dark room. Choptop is, like, well, what’s in there? And she’s, like, that’s the record vault. Out of the darkness comes Leatherface with the chainsaw, and it scared me.

Clip:  It did. It scared me too.

Todd:  It’s a serious jump scare and very effective.

Craig:  I didn’t see it coming. No. And and just knowing that he was there lurking in the shadows that whole time is kinda spooky. Yeah. Leatherface chases her in the radio station and for some reason they have one room that has one of those giant meat locker doors like the Sawyers had in their house in the first movie that, you know, it’s a big metal door that, like, slide shut, and she’s able to shut herself in there for a while.

Todd:  Yeah. And so he’s he’s kinda hacking away at the door with his for quite a while with his chainsaw, but, of course, he can’t get through the metal. I’ve gotta say this about the radio station. I say this in a future episode we’re gonna put up, Night of the Comet, about how radio stations in in movies tend to be shown as these really awesome places, like, very, light nicely decorated and things like that. I wrote in my notes for the first time I’ve ever seen in a film a radio station look actually like radio stations Yeah. Look. Yeah.

Craig:  Like, I I thought the same thing with the carpet on the wall. Yeah. Like a total dump

Todd:  and it’s just like things everywhere and stuff stashed and and stuff that’s been on the wall since, you know, 30 years ago and just they they did an awesome job, and I thought they surely that they just shot this in a radio station. And it wasn’t until Leatherface started hacking up the place that I realized, oh, my Todd. They actually put a set together for this. That is Yep. That is unbelievable. But, yeah, the meat locker door thing makes no sense. But it does make for a bit of comedy when she’s in her room and you’re thinking, well, at least she’s safe. And then he just bursts through a wall.  Yeah. Like like the Kool Aid man. He’s just like, oh, yeah. Comes at her.

Craig:  And at at some point, LG, the technician comes back. He gets killed. I forgot to mention that when Leatherface jumps out, like, he swings the chainsaw and he doesn’t hit the girl at all, instead he hits Choptop in the head. But that’s when we find out that Choptop has this big metal plate on his head and he was wearing a wig. And I guess the backstory is that during the events of the first movie, he was serving in Vietnam and he was injured. He was shot by the Viet Cong, and so he got an honorable discharge, and he got some money out of that settlement and that’s how they’re funding this restaurant business, and that’s that’s why he’s back now. But it’s just hilarious that Leatherface bursts out and just swings his chainsaw and it immediately hits the very top of his head. Like, it’s just convenient.

Todd:  But it turns out he has a metal plate in his head.

Craig:  Right. Right. Well, not like not just in his head like it’s visible and that’s why he was using that that coat hanger. It’s like he’s scratching around the I would imagine, I can only imagine, that if you did have to get a metal plate on your skull like that that they would graft your skin over it. So my only interpretation is that he is just scratched away at this so that the chrome is exposed and like he’s eating the scabs from around. It’s so gross. And he’s like, he’s playing it he’s playing it for comedy and it is really funny, but in the context of, you know, all the violence, it’s it’s really menacing, like it’s scary. Like he seems like a a psycho, like he’s a psychopath and as as crazy as his antics are, it’s it’s pretty scary.

Todd:  I honestly I feel like he’s the scariest part of this whole movie, I think. Quite honestly, he’s way scarier than Leatherface just because Leatherface. Yes. Well, we’ll talk about it later, but Leatherface seems to have some depth to his character in this movie, where whereas just chop top just seems insane, you know, and unpredictable. Yeah.

Craig:  And that’s why I was trying to rush past okay. So LG comes back, and he gets murdered. And it’s a it’s it’s ridiculous. Like, Choptop is hitting him in the head with a hammer. He must hit him 50 or 60 times and LG is just like, he just continues to flop around like he wouldn’t be dead. Like, come on. You know? He would be he would’ve been dead after the 3rd hit at least. But anyway, they, quote, unquote, kill him.  He wakes up later completely inexplicably. So then Leatherface breaks through the wall where Stretch is like the Kool Aid Man, and then there’s this really weird scene. And I don’t know how I feel about this because I really feel like I’ve seen all the movies. I don’t remember part 3 at all. Part 4, which was Next Generation, I remember Matthew McConaughey and Renee Zellweger. I remember them, and I remember their performances. I don’t remember the story that much, but I really feel like they kind of neuter Leatherface in this movie. And maybe it was an attempt to give him more humanity, but the Leatherface from part 1 was just this juggernaut killing machine.  Like, that’s just Mhmm. That’s that was what he was. Yeah. And in this movie, you know, he he breaks in and, like, he’s swinging his chainsaw around. I have to say that my absolute without question favorite part of this movie is

Todd:  I know what you’re gonna say.

Craig:  The chain it’s the chainsaw shimmy. Yeah. Is that what Every time every time he breaks into a room, he holds his chainsaw up above his head and does a little shimmy dance. It’s so

Todd:  funny. It really is.

Craig:  Oh my god. I had to, like, through as I was talking about this with my partner last night, like, through my laughter, I had to get up and demonstrate the chainsaw shimmy. Like, I’m like I’m like, no shit. Every time he does this, I’m like, shaking my ass.

Todd:  Oh, and then there’s the point. I think it’s after the scene with the girl that we’re about to talk about. But I think he starts shibbing again and starts cutting up more of the place. And before he leaves the room, he points himself directly at the camera and just does these pelvic thrusts with his chaise on towards the camera, like, 3 or 4 times, like Ace Ventura, you know, before he leaves the room. It’s it gets pretty ridiculous.

Craig:  It’s clearly supposed to be innuendo. Like, the chainsaw is clearly serving as a phallus in this whole scene.

Todd:  Oh, for sure.

Craig:  It’s so weird. He comes in and he’s, like, tearing up some stuff and she’s screaming and freaking out, and she gets backed up against the wall with a cooler between her legs and, like, what? Why is there a cooler filled with ice? Happening. Right. Filled with ice and soda pop and beer and whatever. And he takes the chainsaw and, like, starts he just puts it in the cooler, like, slices it in there. Yeah. So liquid is just spewing all over her face and she’s screaming and then she’s like, no no. I don’t even he stops and there’s this whole exchange where she’s like, are you good? How good are you? Right.  How good are you? Oh. It’s it’s like she’s trying to seduce him. And so then he takes the chainsaw and runs it all and this is very long, slow sequence, runs all the way up her leg and all the way up her thigh and, like, is, like, nuzzling it at her vagina and she’s like, oh, so you’re really good. Like, she’s apparently also an amateur psychologist. I don’t know. But anyway, she seduces him enough into thinking that, like, she’s his girlfriend or something. So he doesn’t kill her, and and he goes out and, Chop Todd is like, did you take care of her? And he nods. Leatherface never talks, but he does communicate through through Todd and gestures and things.  It’s shimmies. And shimmies. And, so so they leave and then okay. So up until now, all of this has been, like, okay, you know, like, it’s different than the first movie, but, you know, it’s kind of a logical and she’s like, damn it, Lefty. Where are you? You’re late. Like, she’d been waiting for Lefty to, like, show up and save the day, Dennis Hopper to save the day or whatever and he hasn’t gone there And she’s, like, they can’t get away. They can’t get away, and she starts following them. And, like, you are the biggest fucking idiot I’ve ever met in my life.  Like, call the police. Like, they’re driving a blue pickup truck with a huge American flag painted on the gate of the like, come on. Like, this wouldn’t be hard to find.

Todd:  Well, and then she follows them to this abandoned amusement park, Texas Battle Land. And again, also not hard to find. I’m pretty sure you could search through the woods with your police high and low, and you would find this as opposed to the cabin from the first movie. It’s, it’s big, and it’s big fake mountains or whatnot, And they drive this car in and through, and so she stops her truck and gets out, looks left and right from behind a tree, and walks in after them. It’s so dumb. It’s so dumb. Mhmm. Then there’s another car that shows up, and so she starts running from it.  And it turns out that it’s Dennis Hopper who comes out and basically admits, yeah, I did use you as bait. Just says that to her face, and they don’t have much more of an exchange before the ground opens up beneath her and Yeah.

Craig:  And she falls in she falls into a pit of hell, like like, it’s illuminated from underneath which she hadn’t noticed before. Oh my god. It’s just so silly. Like, she literally falls into this pit, like, what is happening?

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And then he tries Dennis Hopper’s like, I’ll help you and so he grabs something to help her and it’s a human arm, like, just It reaches it out. And he’s trying to pull her out and then oh oh, come on. Wait. Hold on. I wrote this down because it was too good. When he can’t get her out, she okay. So she falls into the hell pit and then he tries to pull her out and then she falls down a shaft, down a slide, into a pile of human bones, through another floor, into, like, some kind of dungeon. Like she falls like like 3 stories into this huge subterranean amusement park that this family has apparently decided to call their residence and that they have decorated, like it’s got to be enormous and like the entire place is all lit up and like you know, these festival lights all around and and they’ve decorated it with corpses all around, like it’s crazy.  Awesome. And it is. It’s an amazing set piece. It’s huge. It’s a great set piece, but it’s so silly. And this is the point where you’re, like, you know what? Good for you for just going for it. Like, if if you’re gonna go balls to the wall, just go for it.

Todd:  You should see some of the interviews with the set production designers because they talk about this quite a bit, about how they were able to throw this together and what what they used. And they were, like, literally scrounging for garbage. They got these giant tubes and, you know, they’re putting them together. They went to boneyards and got bones. They said they’re just truckloads of bones, and then truckloads of lights and lamps and things to to stick in there because they the the script called for, like you mentioned earlier, this long tunnel that she ends up running down. And the production designer is, like, how in the world do I like this thing? It was, like, quarter of a mile, this tunnel is.

Craig:  I believe it because it took her a half an hour to run down. It took her forever.

Todd:  Right? But and he was, like, but I got this idea, like, well, maybe they’re just pack Craig. And so we’re just gonna get all of the freaking lamps in available in all of the Texas pawn shops and junkyards and whatever. And they literally went out, got huge truckloads of these things, strewn them out there throughout the entire set, and rewired them all for lights, and that’s how they lit the set, you know, for some of these especially for some of these difficult parts that would have been a possible light otherwise. It’s so ambitious. It doesn’t make any sense, but it is so ambitious. And it doesn’t make sense because, I mean, think about it. It kinda changes the character of these people anyway. I mean, they were

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Part of the charm of the first movie a little bit was the fact that they were these sort of backwoods hillbillies without any money.

Craig:  And and they just wanted to be left alone. Mhmm.

Todd:  And now you’ve got they’ve got this giant underground palace, and they’re suddenly pack rats, and they apparently have all this money in this business they’re running and stuff, and and it’s it it lends a bit of a different tone to it, you know. And I think it’s supposed to be funny. Maybe he’s trying to make some commentary. They they constantly refer the to this as a satire, but it’s really hard to see what they’re satirizing it at any one given time because it’s just a mishmash blender worth of of things in this film, you know. Yeah. But it’s cool to look at.

Craig:  It is. It’s really fun to look at. And this is the part especially where it really made me think of House of a 1000 Corpses, which I haven’t seen in a long time. But I know at some point, the heroin from that movie falls into a subterranean lair. Of course, in that movie, it’s much darker and more grotesque. But then a whole bunch of stuff, like again, we’re probably only about halfway through the movie. So a whole bunch of stuff happens down here. But it’s really just a lot of okay.  It’s a lot of Dennis Hopper running around by himself with his chainsaw, like, trying to tear this stuff down, and I can only imagine in that they probably had Dennis Hopper for a week and they’re like, we we’ve gotta get all your stuff filmed. So you’re just gonna run around this set and tear stuff down for a while and that’s gonna be you in the last half hour.

Todd:  It’s kinda dumb too because he’s cutting these supports. Supposedly, he’s trying trying to tear the place down. Every time he cuts the support, like, nothing a little dirt falls on him and that’s it. Thinking these supports that he’s cutting can’t be holding up much because of doing absolutely nothing to the building.

Craig:  Yeah. And he’s apparently, you know, like religious. I don’t even know.

Clip:  Oh, Todd. Help me beat this stranger that walks beside me. It takes away my strength. Todd, strength. Lord, you show me the end. Show me what I fear, so

Craig:  I don’t fear it no more.

Todd:  It’s the Devil’s Playground. Like, we got the fires of God here. Yeah.

Craig:  It’s the devil’s playground. Like, oh, my Todd. It’s so funny.

Todd:  It up. Hamming it up is the best way to put it.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, god. And it’s hilarious. Stretch wakes up in what I assume is the Sawyers meat locker.

Todd:  It’s like the smokehouse maybe. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. She she hides there while Leatherface, like, plays LG, her friend, her technician. There were these hooks sitting right next to her and I’m like, oh, I I was just waiting for her to kick those over. Like, go ahead and kick them over, honey, because I know you’re going to. And, she finally did. And then Leatherface face that he’s just peeled off of LG and he puts it on her and he puts LG’s hat on her and they dance.

Todd:  And then he ties her up.

Craig:  And then he and then he ties her up because they hear I guess, they hear some things going on. It, you know, Dennis Hopper tearing things down or whatever.

Todd:  And this is where I wrote in my notes, oh my god. I can’t believe we’re only 1 hour into this Me too. Hour and 40 minutes of the movie. And then what happens? LG sits up. He’s been hit in the head with the hammer about 40 times. He’s been flayed, and there he is. He’s he’s alive and able to stand and talk and basically

Craig:  be it. Be yeah.

Todd:  Hey. They’re putting all the taxes in here. I’m telling you. And and this is again, like I said earlier, I just kinda at some point, I really kinda turned my brain off, and this is it. I’m like, okay, if LG is still alive then what’s what’s really where are the stakes in this movie?

Craig:  I know. And and he he sits up and he’s like got no face. And I have to say that the makeup Todd Savini did a great job. The Oh, yeah. Makeup and and the gore effects are fantastic. But he he’s got no face and he’s flayed. He’s, like, don’t be scared, darling. And then he, like, looks at himself.  He’s, like, I guess I’m falling apart on you, honey. And then he he cuts he cuts her free, and then he dies. So she puts his face and his hat back on him, and she’s like, LG, I love you.

Todd:  But it’s played like she’s confessing her her long secret love for him, you know. Right. It’s really dumb. Really dumb.

Craig:  And then she runs around, like, it’s this great big huge enormous lair. And she decides that she’s gonna dart around in plain sight of everybody. Yeah. Oh, my god. Doesn’t make any sense. Leatherface chases her through a tunnel for 5 minutes. The cave in a cave in stops them. That’s Dennis Hopper.  Leatherface does the shimmy a little bit. He has her cornered and then

Todd:  they do this, this deal where she plays psychologist on it.

Clip:  Okay. What are you pissed off? What about me? Listen, this is not gonna work out. I’m trying to be open with you. It’s nobody’s fault. I just can’t do this.

Craig:  Yeah. She’s running she’s running and screaming, and then she when she’s blocked, she just turns her

Clip:  out and says, alright. Let’s talk about it. What? Are you pissed off?

Craig:  And and

Todd:  I know that this is supposed to be funny. You know? I know this is supposed to be part of the satire that’s put into the script, but I just think the way that the whole thing plays out, it just comes across as really stupid. It wasn’t skillful satire, I don’t think. No. It’s really clumsy.

Craig:  If it’s right. If it’s satire, I don’t know what they’re but I don’t know. I guess I was just on board. I was just on board for the silliness and I was laughing, like, at those lines, they’re so stupid. I was laughing and it was fun laughing, like, I think they were in on it. You know what I mean?

Clip:  Oh, for sure. For sure. They knew

Craig:  how stupid it was. Well, and I think

Todd:  there’s some stuff missing here too because the people involved if you watch these interviews, they talk about how the original movie was written. It was all about family. It was about this family. It was about Dennis hopper losing Franklin who which was his I thought it was his brother but I guess it’s his nephew and then this was cut out of the final cut, but it was a part of the script and a part of what they shot. Stretch was supposed to be Dennis Hopper’s illegitimate daughter.

Craig:  Yep.

Todd:  So according to the the makers of the movie, they had a more powerful message here and a very strong thematic, element to the whole movie that basically underpinned the film, they said, was this whole commentary on family and what is it like to be family and all that. And I could see, I get maybe these are just the little bits of it, you know, that we’re getting

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  That because they don’t really have a base anymore to go on because of the editing or whatever, that it it just comes off as really dumb and really out of left field.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And I it is. I mean, it is really dumb. I still had fun with it.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But it but it is it is. It’s dumb. And then so then, the cook and chop Todd show up while she’s trying to talk leather face down or whatever. They’re like, oh, Bubba’s got a girlfriend. Bubba’s got a girlfriend. And the cook is like, oh, well, you discovered sex. I wish you would have just come and talk to me about it. And he’s like, you got you got one choice, boy.  Sex or the saw. And the saw is family. Which is a great line. And I’m I’m pretty sure they used the saw as family as the tagline for the 3rd movie. Yep. But anyway, Chop Todd knocks her out. And then we have the dinner scene which aside from the difference that this has an amazing huge set piece is exactly the same as the dinner scene.

Todd:  It really is. There’s like no difference at all down to her ending up, with her head in a pan and grandpa being wheeled in again, except this time grandpa has so much better makeup.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  Again, he’s attempting to throw the hammer at her and completely missing every time until he hits her, like, once or twice. And once again, she should be dead, but she’s not.

Craig:  Right. But once she’s unconscious, then Lefty shows up singing hymns.

Clip:  Boys,

Craig:  you never should have been doing this.

Clip:  Who sent you? Those sissies over at Del Mar catering? That chicken shit burrito man butts? I don’t care who sent you.  I’m the Todd of the harvest.

Craig:  I don’t even know what that means.

Todd:  And then it’s just it becomes Errol Flynn Robin Todd is what it is.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. With chainsaws.

Todd:  With his really long, tall chainsaw. And once again, shows he has no idea how to use a chainsaw. And he and Leatherface go into this, basically, this fencing duel up to the point where they even leap on top of the table, and they’re fencing Yeah. On top of the table. It’s it’s funny. It’s it’s actually really funny. That that part, I thought, was was pretty brilliant. Even though you can tell, like, the saws aren’t even going.  Like No. Like, you’re Yeah. You could hear the sounds of it, but you could see those chains aren’t moving. That’s kinda disappointing. Drayton is underneath the table at this point. He just basically decides to cheerfully give up. Oh, well, I guess I always needed to lay it down at one point. So Yeah.  He digs into that corpse that they’ve had kicking around from the very beginning and, pulls out his backup plan, which is a grenade. He pulls the pin out and squeezes it and drops it just at the the point where I think, Lefty gets it over on Leatherface. He’s actually stabs him through with the chainsaw and that is a cool bit.

Craig:  It is, but it’s so stupid because like he totally impales him with it. It goes entirely through his torso. So it’s it’s, you know, in one end sticking out the other and Leatherface is still Just flopping around. Fighting.

Todd:  Yeah. He’s still swinging the chainsaw around. It makes no sense.

Craig:  No. Well and and so that blows up. But in the meanwhile, Chop Todd is chasing Stretch and they’re they’re going up this big ladder. You kinda see the the dust from the explosion come up behind them, but they’re getting outside and and they’re fighting on the ladder which is kind of a fun fight scene and, of course, Choptop’s crazy so he’s just laughing and his weapon that he has at this point is a scalpel. I don’t know where he got that, but he is just slicing away at her.

Todd:  And again, it’s just like him hitting her with the with the hammer. Every slice should be making it’s just it’s just like he’s slapping it against her or something. I mean, that it’s having no effect.

Craig:  Well, I mean, you see it. You see the blood and stuff, but it’s like she’s almost entirely unfazed, like, I would have been done, but whatever. And it’s hilarious. They’re like climbing up this huge ladder like to the top of a mountain at this amusement park and they get up there and there’s a shrine to apparently Grandma Sawyer who is another one of these living corpses. Why these corpses like, they said at one point that grandpa was like a 137 years old and still kicking. Why these people turn into living corpses, I have no idea. But the grandma corpse mostly just sits there, but she does move around, Stretch, grabs the chainsaw in grandma’s lap and turns around and takes a chop top out with it. And what I thought was clever was that she kinda takes a swipe at him and and connects with him, but then he falls off the mountain like down into a shaft and I’m, like, uh-oh, they wanna bring him back for another sequel.

Todd:  But but that shot was the had to be the coolest stunt in the entire film. Like, that guy, I had to rewind it and watch it 2 or 3 times. That guy rolls down the mountain. It’s a guy, just, like, aimlessly, and and hits something, kind of flops over, rolls down a little further, and manages to make it in this tube. It had to be super dangerous, that stunt. I was so impressed with that stunt. Yeah.

Craig:  It was cool. And well, I I was impressed by the stunt too. It looked pretty cool, but I also yeah. I just thought, I appreciate you for setting up another sequel. Good job. But then, Stretch, like, the camera is close-up on her and then it pulls out into this big wide shot of her at the top of this mountain with the chainsaw. And then she does the chainsaw shimmy, like, she’s king of the mountain. It’s really hilarious.  It’s very, like, Ash Williams Evil Dead.

Todd:  Well, it’s kind of a callback to the first film too where, you know, it ends on Leatherface kinda doing the chainsaw shimmy in the middle of the Todd, except his was a little more aimless and hers is more triumphant. Yeah.

Craig:  I don’t know. Like, it’s

Todd:  Oh.

Craig:  I have to say at the end of the day, I appreciate this movie for its ambition and for just, you know, just go on ahead and just just push it right over the top. Just just go ahead and do it, and and I I kinda like it and it’s it’s it’s long. It’s too long.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  They they could have trimmed probably a good 15, 20 minutes. Nonetheless, I I thought it was fun. I had fun watching it. I don’t know that I would necessarily sit down and put it in and watch it from start to finish again, but if I, you know, was flipping through the channels and it was on, I’d I’d take another look at it. It it’s it’s a fun movie to watch, and I’m glad we did it. I’ve been looking forward to this one for a while. Because like I said, I had seen it that one time and I remembered it being crazy, but I haven’t seen it since then, probably 10 years or more. And it was fun to revisit.

Todd:  I I have to say I don’t I don’t feel like this is a good movie. I don’t think I would rewatch it. I thought it was a bit of a slog. I did find it it had its moments. It had its moments that thankfully would come at just about the time when I when I was, you know, checking my watch They would jump out and and and charm me. But overall, as a one unit of of art, one piece of art, I just think I think it has so many problems. And I wanna say that hopefully, it’s due to the mess that the studio apparently made it after the director’s, you know, initial vision because I don’t think it really reflects well on Tobe Hooper as a director. I have to kinda wonder after watching a movie like this if he was just a bit of a a one hit wonder because nothing he did after that was Todd super successful.  And we even learned the poltergeist, you know, was mostly directed by by Steven Spielberg. And so I’m really kinda curious to to revisit some of his later films to see, because I just I don’t think the direction is that good here. The what does work about it is the ensemble. The acting is the acting is really good. The special effects are fantastic for especially for their time. The set design is incredible for any time. Mhmm. They nobody would build a set like that anymore, you know? They wouldn’t.  It would all be CGI. And the ideas there are interesting. But when you put them all together, the movie is just one big mess, and I didn’t find it terribly fun to watch. I thought they were fun moments. Other than that, I I kinda I would I would have to give a thumbs down to it myself.

Craig:  Well, to be fair, Tobe Hooper didn’t intend to direct this movie. That was never his intention. He wanted to produce it and have somebody else direct, but they couldn’t find anybody else to do it. And so he’s just stepped in and said fine, I’ll do it. And I think that you have to go into this movie looking at it as a comedy, and I’m surprised, you know, it did pretty well and I I guess that has to be a result of, the success of the first movie, but it grossed about 8,000,000 which isn’t great, but, you know, they made money on it, and the franchise continued. But I just feel like if you don’t go into it knowing what you’re getting into, I could see how you could be terribly disappointed. But if you go into it thinking this is a total change in direction and it’s really more focused on the comedy Tobe Hooper says, whatever. The first one had a lot of dark comedy in it too.  People were just so shocked Todd overlooked it.

Todd:  Notice it. Yeah.

Craig:  Right. Which I I can see. I mean, Franklin was clearly a, you know, comedic character. We didn’t even mention that Franklin’s skeleton shows up and so that Dennis Hopper can have a little sentimental moment with this skeleton. But, you know for what it is that’s that’s not to say that it’s a cinematic masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but for what it is. I thought it was funny. There were parts of it that were scary. The gore effects were good.  The makeup was good. The set pieces were fun to look at. Since you gave it a thumbs down, I will go ahead just to be contrary and and give it a thumbs up. I I I would recommend it to horror fans.

Todd:  Sure. It’s it’s worth watching, but it’s probably not, in my opinion, not worth a second watch. It just it just, like, to me, it’s just emblematic of the fact that you can have all of these separate elements that work so well by themselves. But when they come together, they just don’t click. Yep. I think that’s fair. Well, anyway, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this one, please share it with a friend.  Anywhere you can find podcasts, we are there. You can also find us on Facebook. We have a page there, Finally, we have a website as well, 2 guys dot redfortynet.com, where we put up written movie reviews every Thursday to supplement our terrible, horrible podcast episodes. Until next week, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

The first appearance of Jason as the killer requires a few leaps in logic and plausibility, but it did set up one of the most iconic movie villains and longest-running horror franchises in the business. It also makes for a charmingly dated and tame summer camp slasher movie, which we only realized upon revisit.

Very different in tone from the original House (which we have previously discussed), we had fond memories of this horror-comedy from our childhoods. Have a listen to see if the film measured up to our recollections.

Episode 115, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Craig: This month, the month of February, we have decided to do sequels. Now last month, Todd said that, the sequels that we wanted to do should be sequels that, in some way, you know, break the mold or or go out there. This week’s movie was my choice, and I chose House 2. And I don’t know if it necessarily really meets Todd’s requirement

Todd:  Oh, it totally does. Or something. No. It totally does. Totally.

Craig:  Okay. Alright. My justification is that really the movie is is only a sequel in title. It really aside from also being about

Todd:  a quote,

Craig:  unquote, haunted house, It really doesn’t have anything to do with the first movie.

Todd:  There is indeed a house in this film.

Craig:  There is a really big cool one. I really like it.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But, yeah, it doesn’t I mean, there’s no mention of the characters from the previous movie or anything like that. In fact, in the States, I think that there were 4 house movies and none of them had anything to do with the others. Yeah. They were all really kinda stand alone, and I I think that just capitalizing on the apparently, the first one was more successful than I realized. Apparently, the first one was successful enough, that people did wanna capitalize on the name. And I guess in Italy, there were, like, 6, or more house movies.

Todd:  Which were kind of rebranded. I think they were, like, movies that maybe came out under alternate titles, but in Italy then they just called them house. Again, like you said, to take off of the the apparent success of house.

Craig:  Maybe house would

Todd:  be in Italy. Maybe the first one was huge.

Craig:  Well, I like the first one. You know, it’s it’s just kind of a fun campy movie.

Todd:  It is.

Craig:  And and I I told Todd before we started recording that I’m was a little bit nervous to talk about this one because I remember as a kid loving this movie. And and I I think they must have played it on HBO or or maybe even on just standard network cable, but I remember it playing a lot, and I watched it a lot. But I it it had been a long time since I had seen it. And I sat down to watch it yesterday, and I was watching it, and I’m like, oh, man. This is really hokey. That being said that being said, I still really like it, but those of you all 3 of you who listen who may be, you know kind of hardcore horror fans, it’s almost a stretch to call this a horror movie. It’s it’s it’s really more of a comedy. As I was watching it, as hokey as it is, I think that I remember that the reason that I liked it is because it’s actually a really kinda sweet movie.  It’s it’s kinda cute and sweet and, I like it.

Todd:  You’re right. No. This this movie relief okay. So I also have fond memories of this movie because I didn’t watch it on t and I’ve only seen this movie once before, and this would have been, like, in 1988 or 1989, like, seriously, like like, after it came out on video. But, you know, my dad, unlike your dad, my dad has never been a big horror movie fan. And when we would go to the video store, occasionally, he would indulge me. And he’d be like, okay. We’ll pick out a horror movie, and I’ll watch it with you.  And he usually had to find something that he could agree with. You know? Uh-huh. And and then also he would deem wouldn’t be too gross or gory or explicit for me. And he picked this movie and we watched it together. And so, like, I really remember watching this movie with my dad and both of us really enjoying it, like, being pleasantly surprised. And this would be, without a doubt, the first quote unquote horror comedy I ever saw. So this was the first time that it ever occurred to me that you could mix these two genres, you know, that you could have a movie that’s alternately scary and funny at the same time. Now, looking at this as an adult, to call this movie scary is a bit of a stretch.  Yeah. But it really has the same flavor and same feel as some other movies what we’ve talked about here before, such as The Gate, Goonies, Monster Squad. It seems like the movie that’s written more with a family in mind than the hardcore teenage horror audience. In fact, this movie is PG 13 and I don’t even know why it’s not PG.

Craig:  Yeah. I I think it’s because if I remember correctly, they throw in a few f bombs, and that’s the only maybe or or maybe even not. I don’t remember, but it it you’re right. It Todd does seem in the same vein as those movies. So, therefore, it’s no surprise to me that I liked it so much because I love those movies. You know, those the the ones that you mentioned are some of my favorite movies, and and as I was watching this, I was thinking, wow, this really would be a great movie if you were a parent or an uncle or or whatever who wanted to introduce your kid or your you know, a young person, if you wanted to introduce them kind of to the genre but with something that was not really that scary, then this would be a good one to go. Now I I will say that, you know, I was thinking about, oh, I would love to watch this with my niece and nephew, and and my sister is very protective and would never let me, I’m sure. But but, as I was thinking that, I was like, oh, it’s fun and there’s a lot of fun things that they would enjoy.  Now I I will say that the end, like, the big bad guy at the end, is kinda scary. I can imagine children being scared of it, but adults, you know, it’s it’s really not, all that frightening, but it’s fun. There’s there’s cute stuff going on and it’s I don’t know. You know, people who didn’t grow up in the eighties probably would not be particularly impressed with this cast, but, but but for those of us who grew up in the eighties, these people the people who are in this movie are all pretty recognizable. The movie, starts out with just, you know, the title sequence. I really like the music in this movie. I I think that the music is fun and interesting. And so, you know, it opens up with this kinda cool music, and you see this crystal skull, and then there are the titles, and then you see this big awesome house, like, I don’t even know how to describe it.  It’s almost like a castle. It’s like this stone house with, like, you know, towers. And then the interior of the house are cool set pieces too. It it’s it’s kind of I don’t know. It’s like Aztec slash Gothic. I I don’t even know how to describe it. But, like, it’s this it’s this cool Todd mansion, but there are all of these, like, walls and stone pillars that have all of these, like, I don’t know, Native American symbols or I’m sure I’m sure they’re not really Native American, but

Todd:  It’s supposed to be Aztec, I think. And and the interior of it is so goofy. I mean, there is no house that would ever be built like this. It it’s No. It’s so over the top. It’s like a giant movie set is exactly what it is. It it doesn’t the inside doesn’t even match the outside, which is fine No. Because you hardly even, like, see the outside.  Right. It’s like if somebody Todd, like, an Aztec pyramid I don’t mean it’s like if somebody took a house and added an Aztec motif to it. No. It’s like if somebody took an Aztec pyramid and tried to fashion a house out of it. That’s what this thing is. Aztec temple on the inside with like the staircase has these stone pillars on it and that big, like, dragon or or mouths. Oh, it’s just ridiculous. It’s ridiculous.

Craig:  Well, and and you’re right. You know, as as big and cool as the exterior of the house looks, when you get inside, it’s like it’s like sound stages. Like, they’re these huge like, especially, like, the foyer or the living area when you first go in. Like, it’s this huge set piece

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  With this with this huge stone, fireplace with, like, a a shrine. Yeah. But what’s

Todd:  so funny and what what makes it even more ridiculous is that hardly anybody seems to notice or care. Like Yeah. Like like, at first, of course, they come in and they stare around the house, like, woah. What a nice big house. Right? And, like Yeah. Like, after that, nobody really comes in and remarks, my god. What is this monstrosity that we’ve grown upon? It’s just like, oh, so this is where you live.

Craig:  Well, oh, gosh. Yeah. I mean, when when the main characters eventually move in, it’s this young couple, Jesse and Kate, and I’ll I’ll talk about the actors who play them in a second. But, yeah, when they first arrive, they’re like, oh, look. This is the new house we live in. And then at some point, Kate gets on the phone with, like, her manager or something, and she’s like, yeah. It’s kind of a dump, but Jesse would never notice that. Like like, are you kidding me? Like, it’s a huge mansion.  Like, oh, yeah. It’s kind of a dump.

Clip:  Seriously.

Todd:  I love this I love this part when they first come in because as she’s on the phone with her manager, at the same time, Jesse just pulls a random book off the shelf, sits down, and then just starts talking to himself.

Clip:  I don’t believe it. Well, they really need

Craig:  to learn.

Clip:  It’s my mom and dad. Yeah. It was pretty cute. That was my grandfather. So he must have been my great great grandfather. Jesse McLaughlin, they named me after him.

Craig:  Yeah. He talks to himself quite a bit, and we also get, like, sometimes, if I remember correctly, we get his inner monologue without him even talking. Yeah. You’re, like, voice over.

Todd:  It’s so lazy. It’s such lazy writing. It’s terrible.

Craig:  It is. Oh, the writing is bad. Oh, gosh. But before we meet these people, the opening scene is, this this young couple who has a baby. They’re in the house and, like, it seems like they’re scared and somebody is coming and so they meet somebody outside and they hand over their baby to another couple and then they go back inside and somebody like, it it they’re they’re trying to kind of establish the mystery. So some mysterious shadowy figure shows up and says, I want the skull. And the the guy, Clarence, is like, oh, we don’t have it. And then this mysterious figure shoots Clarence, and then he eventually kills, the wife too.  It’s like this ghostly cowboy. And then, we get a black screen and it says 25 years later, and that’s when Jesse and Kate arrive. And Jesse is the the baby from the first scene, and wherever he was, wherever he’s lived his life, he’s now, inherited, this mansion from his parents who died 25 years ago. I don’t really understand how that works out. But okay.

Todd:  We’ll just go with it.

Craig:  Yeah. And Jesse is played, by I I don’t know how to pronounce his first name. It’s a r y e, Ari Gross, I guess. And it’s not like he was a big star in the eighties nineties or anything, but he he’s really recognizable. He’s this short little guy and what I remember him from was he was kind of the second lead on Ellen DeGeneres’ sitcom, when she had a sitcom back then. And his girlfriend, I guess, is Kate played by Lar Park Lincoln, who is probably most known for Friday 13th part 7, but she, again, is just another very recognizable face from the eighties. And it’s watching this movie again, it was funny to me. I had never really consent of course, when I was watching it before I was a kid, like, we’re talking, like, maybe 8 years old, 10 years old.  That was the heyday of when I was watching this. Yeah. And so I wasn’t really particularly concerned about writing, and it was funny in watching it again today that these secondary characters, like Kate, are in are totally inconsequential. Yes. They could be gone from the

Todd:  movie, and it would make no difference whatsoever.

Craig:  Right. And most of them most of the secondary characters leave halfway through the movie. Like and we you’re just like, why were they there to begin with?

Todd:  And the funny thing is you don’t even notice.

Craig:  No. No. You don’t even notice.

Clip:  If people they come back to me.

Todd:  Oh, yeah. I wondered what happened then.

Craig:  Yeah. So yeah. So they’ve inherited this house. And like you said, he finds that photo album, and it’s got pictures of his ancestors and and whatnot. And the comedy, you know, comes in right away. Like, Jesse hears noises in the house and he goes and explores, and it doesn’t end up being anything. He just gets hit in the face with a fold out ironing board. Like, it it’s silly.  It’s really silly. That. And all the comedy is really silly in here, and it’s

Todd:  peppered with laugh lines that are just they’re all groaners. You know? They’re all

Craig:  Yeah. I I don’t know. There’s a there’s a certain charm to it. There is. I don’t think

Todd:  I agree. There is a charm to it. At one point, I wrote down this movie is so eighties comedy. Like, it’s almost called together from all of the other eighties comedies you’ve seen. That is that is the atmosphere of this film. It’s those kinds of jokes, that kind of humor, these kinds of situations. They’re all recycled from all the movies surrounding it at this time.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. And and the characters too are are so very eighties. I mean, the the next thing that happens is, 2 weirdos drop by Charlie and Kate. And Charlie is played by Jonathan Stark who, if you have listened to our podcast, we’ve talked about before because he was in Fright Night. Yep. He was, the main villain’s, like, henchman in Fright Night. He again, a very recognizable face. You know, he he’s not a leading guy.  You just kind of recognize him from things, but he was really, his career has been in writing. He wrote for Ellen’s sitcom. He wrote for Cheers and According Todd Jim and all kinds of other very successful television shows.

Todd:  Also, I really enjoyed his performance in this. I mean, it was totally cheese ball. Like his character was total cheese ball, but I really enjoyed watching him.

Craig:  Yeah. He’s funny. He’s a funny guy. Mhmm. Well and that’s that’s the role he plays. I’m the funny guy. Oh. Funny funny Charlie.  I’m funny Charlie.

Todd:  I was making funny jokes.

Craig:  And he he shows up with Lana who’s played by Amy Yasbeck, who was married to John Ritter and, you know, is a an accomplished actress in her own right. She was in the problem child movies. Just it’s a smorgasbord of eighties. Like, these people are just so recognizable, from and none of them were huge Todd. And and so maybe they were just recognizable to me because I had seen them in all of these random things. And and And Bill Maher shows up later on basically playing Bill Maher. Yeah. He just shows up as this cynical asshole.

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  And he’s got a perm, and it’s amazing.

Todd:  He looks just the same. I mean Yeah.

Craig:  Exactly. His perm’s a little bigger, but

Clip:  it’s a

Craig:  little longer. It’s the same.

Todd:  A little longer.

Craig:  Oh, man. And, so Lana is apparently a performer, and her stage name is Puce Glitz and the Avoider. That’s her band name.

Todd:  That’s really funny, actually.

Craig:  Yeah. She dances. I guess I guess Charlie’s plan I don’t even know. I don’t

Todd:  even know. I don’t even know so silly. I don’t even

Craig:  know what Kate does, but somehow Kate is somehow tied to people who could maybe help puce glitz in the players. Get their big start or something. Yes. And that’s why they’re there. I don’t know. Oh my god.

Todd:  Charlie has this incredible plan where he they are up in the bedroom and then Kate starts this nipply dance party where she just says, he start jumping around and he’s plays a big boom box of, I guess it’s her music, and he, like, looks toward the door to see if anybody’s out there, Then he cranks it up, and then he jumps in bed like he’s reading a magazine or something. And he’s Yeah. Like this bizarre way of trying to get Kate’s attention, and Kate’s on the phone. She’s like, wait a minute. What is that music I hear? And she runs into the room.

Craig:  Oh, hi, Kate. Hey. Is it too loud?

Clip:  What is this your plan? That’s Pew Splitz and The Avoider. Pus Glitz? Yeah. That’s my stage name. This is you? Yeah. And,

Craig:  I’m your manager. Okay. I don’t feel compelled to tell you. We are

Todd:  weighing several offers from some big producers, but to drop names would be tacky.

Clip:  But you don’t have a contract yet. I mean, you haven’t signed anything yet, have you? Oh, no. We don’t believe in success.

Craig:  Yeah. We wanna make a lot of money and

Todd:  be real famous, but but no success.

Clip:  No. There’s a very subtle difference. You know? John, I’ve gotta get back to you. I think I may have found what we’re looking for.

Craig:  Yeah. Based on 15 seconds

Todd:  of 15 seconds. Of really bland, not even remarkable pop music. It’s so silly.

Craig:  It is. It’s really silly.

Todd:  It is hilarious. Actually, there’s no point to it except to bring Bill Maher’s character there to say some goofy stuff later on.

Craig:  Yeah. Again, the secondary except for Charlie. Charlie’s important. He’s he plays into the action. All the rest of the people, totally inconsequential really in the end. Mhmm. I guess since he found this photo album, Jesse’s now interested in, like, researching things. I I don’t know.  But he like, he’s been in the basement Talking

Todd:  to himself again.

Craig:  Talking to himself, having inner monologue, and he’s found, like, these scrapbooks. And he tells Charlie the story of, his great great grandpa, who was an adventurer. Like, again, confusing because, like, he was a wild old wild west guy, but then I guess he was also, like, a worldwide adventurer.

Todd:  He doesn’t make sense at all.

Clip:  He was an outlaw in the old west.

Craig:  Okay. Can I buy that? Yeah.

Clip:  Look at this skull he’s holding. It’s made completely out of rock crystal. And this guy in the background, this is Jesse’s partner, Slim Reiser. Uh-uh. Now he and Jesse had a falling out over the skull and became bitter enemies. Swim died without ever getting the skull from Jesse.

Todd:  I don’t even understand how he knows all this stuff. I mean, wasn’t he just handed over to some other couple at some point? I I guess he just inferred a lot from

Craig:  the pictures. Grant

Clip:  immortality

Craig:  to anybody grant immortality to anybody who found it. So he says, well he’s talking to Charlie, and he’s like, well, he found this skull. Well, where is it now? Well, he’s just buried up on the hill. Let’s go dig him up.

Todd:  That’s basically it. And the next shot is literally them digging him up.

Craig:  It’s the them neck deep in a grave digging up gramps. Well, but they they open it up and they find the skull and that’s great, but then, also Gramps is alive, or undead. I I not really sure. I anyway, he he looks, he he looks like a corpse. You know? He’s he’s decomposed and gray and the tips of his fingers have worn away and apparently, he doesn’t know this. And Gramps makes the movie for me.

Todd:  He does.

Craig:  He’s he’s played by Royal Dano who again gosh. We can’t show you things, you know, when we’re just recording Todd, but if you saw this guy you would recognize him. He was in, Something Wicked This Way Comes. He was the lightning rod salesman. He was in one of the Ghoulies sequels. He’s just this super recognizable old guy and he is so cute and charming.

Todd:  So dang cool. He he’s got a voice. He just has a very distinct voice. Like, you don’t even need to see it. And and there’s nobody else. Like, nobody before or after has had a voice like this

Clip:  guy. Goddamn. You know, I’ve been awaiting over 70 years for some jackass to get the sense to come dig me up. Thank you, boy.

Craig:  He’s in heavy makeup. This movie’s not popular enough for there to be a lot of, you know, behind the scenes information out there, but I wish there were because I would love to know. One thing that I do know is that they wanted this guy so badly that they hired him even though they couldn’t get their insurance company to cover him because he had just recently undergone heart surgery. But they wanted him so bad, they hired him anyway. And I understand why, but, you know, I’d be interested to know about, you know, how long it took this old guy to sit there and get into this makeup because it’s it’s heavy makeup, and it looks good. Even in that heavy makeup, he has so much character and humanity in his eyeballs. Yes. Like, he he’s just so, like, endearing and and, and and sweet and Jeez.  And he see and he’s like an old grandpa, like a sweet, old, cool grandpa. He reminds me of my old country grandpa, and it’s just, it’s it’s just the sweetest thing. But, you know, he comes out of the grave, and at first, he’s kinda wearing, like, this Aztec mask, so he’s kinda scary. And, you know, you don’t I if you haven’t seen it before, you don’t know if he’s good or bad. But then when he takes the mask off, he’s just kind of this kindhearted old corpse. And they take him home and then that’s the other thing that is so silly, but cute at the same time. There’s like, oh, well, nice to meet you. Let’s go home.’ And they take him home, and he he has his crystal skull, and he puts it on the mantle with this shrine that has obviously been missing the skull and, like, the skull glows and stuff and he says this house is a temple, it don’t know time or space, but the forces of evil are always after the skull, so we have to take care of this skull.  And then they take him down to the basement, that’s where they’re gonna set him up, and he wants to he’s like, let’s go out on the town. I’ve been, you know, in Macauffin for 70 years. They have to kind of not explain to him, but help him to realize that he is gross, but it’s a cute moment, like, he he’s like, I’m supposed to be alive. It’s not supposed to be like this, and, like, he gets sad and misty eyed, and it’s, like like, it tugged at my heartstrings.

Todd:  It does.

Craig:  Like Yeah. Oh, it was really sweet. I know. It was really sweet.

Todd:  But then, of course, Charlie’s, like, sneakily gives him the keys to the car, and they, like, go driving off and end up coming back drinking and staring at the stars and things. At this point, I was like, this is so eighties comedy. It is. It’s so goofy.

Craig:  They just go off and get drunk. It’s hilarious.

Todd:  It doesn’t even matter. Like, for example, then the next scene is him sitting in front of a television and he’s marveling at, the fact that tissues just keep coming and coming out of this tissue box like it’s this amazing advanced technology, but he’s just been apparently watching old movies and then he jumps into a Ronald Reagan joke so that that way you know it’s the eighties. And then Yeah. And then suddenly he says, these movies, books, and crap, they don’t tell you how it really was. And I’m thinking, did he just spend the last hour reading a bunch of books and watching a bunch of movies about Westerns? Like, how does he even know to say this? Right? Like, it didn’t make any sense. And then it starts with this, like, kind of cute but really silly montage where he’s they’re sitting around drinking beer and they’re listening to him the wax poetic about robbing a stagecoach at one time, you know. And, it just yeah. It’s it’s so goofy, like, now

Craig:  It is goofy, but it’s cute. Adorable. It’s so adorable. Like, this cute sentimental western music is playing in the back, and Jesse and Charlie are both just looking at him like it’s just the most fascinating thing they’ve ever heard in their life. Yeah. Like, as cheesy as that sounds, honest to Todd

Todd:  It is.

Craig:  I I I have had I don’t still have both of them. I have had older grandparents and there’s just something charming about when they get into their stories about the olden days and, oh my gosh, it’s just so cute. And, like, you you get the sense that especially Jesse is charmed by this. Like, his Kate, his girlfriend is such she has nothing to do. She she has no opportunity to build character. There’s no kind of establishment of their relationship. She just is she has about 5 minutes of screen time where she just kind of gets to be flighty and bitchy and that’s it. Yeah.  But because of that, you kind of get the sense that Jesse is, you know, longing for something else. And and, you know, the like, these stories of gramps’ days, you know, are are romantic to him.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And he’s really into it.

Todd:  And he’s reconnecting with the family that he didn’t have. You know? And and it’s it’s that’s the that’s kind of what the movie is really trying to build here is that sense of, the orphan who meets his great great grandfather in a way that none of the rest of us could. And he’s charming, and he’s cute, and he’s fun. Right? So

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And they Yeah. It is cool.

Todd:  And then it’s just, oh, gee. Look at the time. Well, we better wander on upstairs. And they walk upstairs in a true eighties movie fashion. Suddenly, there is a full blown house party going on.

Craig:  Yeah. A full costume party. Right? You just

Todd:  happen to not notice downstairs. Oh, I forgot to tell you. I invited a few people over for Halloween who apparently all showed up, just let themselves in the house and completely decked out the place and, you know, brought food and whatnot.

Craig:  And then this this party scene is funny. The only thing before we get to the party, when Gramps is talking, I I feel like it’s important to mention that he tells the story of his nemesis, slim slim reaser. And it’s very simple that, you know, they when Gramps found the skull, Slim wanted it, and, you know, they had a disagreement about that. And Gramps said, well, I shot the old scallywag. That was the end of that, but he doesn’t really wanna talk about it anymore. The reason that it’s important is because Slim shows up at the end as the bad guy. Also, at some point, John Mayer showed up. Or not is that his name? Not John Mayer? John Mayer is a singer.  That would be really weird if he showed up. Like, what? Bill Maher. Bill Maher. Bill Maher showed up.

Todd:  He showed up at

Clip:  the party.

Craig:  Showed up.

Todd:  Did he show up at the party? He showed up at

Craig:  the He

Todd:  showed up a

Craig:  little bit before. It doesn’t really matter. And, again, his character is pretty inconsequential too, except it’s apparent that he is interested in Kate. And then throughout his time there, he’s constantly trying to sabotage Jesse and make Kate not like Jesse. And, eventually, it works, and then they leave. And, like, that’s that’s it. That’s that’s the whole purpose of their characters. That’s so true.  Oh. Oh, man. But this this this party, it’s funny. It’s this huge party and Gramps, you know, comes to the party because it’s a costume party.

Todd:  He knows

Craig:  he he no questions who he is, and Gramps is dancing with some young girl, and it’s it’s super cute. And then there’s this totally kind of inconsequential lame plot point where one of Jesse’s ex girlfriends, Rochelle, shows up, and it’s, like, kind of all over him for no apparent reason.

Todd:  Immediately just rubbing all over him and stuff like that. And he hardly even seems to care.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, he doesn’t even notice, really. But Bill Maher sees, and then Bill Maher tells, Jesse’s girlfriend, Kate, and then eventually she comes and slaps him. It’s it’s all very stupid and inconsequential. Really, the point of the party is that while the party is going on and fortunately, it’s a costume party, so anybody dressed as anything can show up and nobody’s gonna question it, but a door opens in one of the upstairs rooms and smoke kind of or fog rolls out, and this huge caveman comes out and comes down through the party and, you know, is kind of pushing people aside. And one of the people he pushes aside is a guy in a gorilla suit who is Kane Hodder for our horror friend fans out there. Mhmm. Kane, Kane Hodder, one of the original Jason Voorhees in a very small cameo.

Todd:  The movie was produced by Sean Cunningham who who who directed the original Friday 13th and produced a bunch of them.

Craig:  Yeah. Look at you. Todd research.

Todd:  What no. It’s one of the first things I noticed is, like, his second credit that came up.

Craig:  It’s awesome. I know. I didn’t look at that. But, anyway, this caveman comes in and he steals the skull. Gramps when the caveman is walking towards the skull, Gramps steps in front of him and says,

Clip:  You better peck your ass in a suitcase and hid for Panama.

Craig:  Just the funniest shit.

Todd:  Oh, these are I swear to God. These lines are so goofy. Oh. So goofy.

Craig:  Goofy. They are so goofy. Oh my god. Oh. But, anyway, the caveman takes steals the skull and and takes it back to where he is, and then Jesse and Charlie are like, oh, no. He stole the skull. And, Gramps is like, well, I have to have it. If I don’t have it, I’ll die.  You have to go get it. And so there’s a whole lot of goofiness leading up, like, they’re they’re meeting up Jesse and Charlie meeting up outside the room, and Jesse’s like, oh, well, I had this in the trunk. You never know when you’re gonna need one, and he pulls out an Uzi. He’s got a machine gun in the trunk of his car.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s it’s really not an eighties movie without an Uzi coming into play at some point. That was, like, our thing. I don’t know why we were so fascinated with Uzi’s back then.

Craig:  I don’t know either. And who knows what an

Todd:  Uzi even know what an Uzi is, but we all talked about them when we were kids.

Craig:  Yeah. We like to say them a lot. See. So they go so they open up this room and they go in. And this is, you know, kind of in keeping with the first movie. It is. Like, you could go into these rooms, and it would be kind of, like, alternate

Todd:  universes or whatever. It’s the jungle room.

Craig:  So they go into this prehistoric jungle.

Todd:  I thought it was a nice touch. I thought it was cool that as they’re going to the jungle, there’s, like, a lamp in there. Like like it was a, you know, still like a little bit of the room left before they’ve got into, you know, way more. And I actually thought you know, I was impressed at this for as I don’t know. This had to be a fairly low budget movie. The special effects aren’t too bad for the time. Like, the stop motion kind of stuff they do is a bit in that Craig Harryhausen vein, but they don’t really try to avoid them. Mhmm.  I mean, they will go full on with the creature effects, you know. They’re giving it their all, but they’re not trying to shoot it in a way where they don’t have to show a creature Right. For better or for

Craig:  worse. Yeah. And and, you know, if if you if you wanna be critical, it’s not Jurassic Park, you know, by any stretch of the imagination. They go in there, and there are, you know, these stop motion dinosaurs, and they look very b movie. You know? They look very clash of the titans.

Todd:  Yeah. They’re jerky.

Craig:  And I not only am I fine with it, I actually find it It’s charming. Charming. Yeah. I I I agree. Endearing.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And and so they go in there and they fight the caveman, and then, like, they they get the skull back. I love

Todd:  I love how they just wander around through this jungle, and the skull is just, like, sitting on a rock.

Craig:  Right. Like, it’s, like, 10 yards in. Like, it’s oh oh, let’s find it. Let’s look around. Oh, there it is. I know. Just sit just sitting there on a dead bed.

Todd:  And why? Why did the caveman even get did he just need a buddy? Like, what was he doing with it in the first

Craig:  I don’t know. He must be a force of evil caveman. I don’t know. But when they get it, it got it’s just so funny and cheesy, and I love it. Jesse grabs the skull and he takes it in one hand and thrust his arm up in the air and says, the skull is ours And then a pterodactyl swoops in and steals it. Drops it in its nest. On top of this huge tree.

Todd:  This gigantic, like, redwood tree. And what do they do? They go to the tree and Jesse can scale this tree.

Craig:  And it’s like, oh, gosh. It just looks so silly. Like, I was I was paying attention and, like, it’s just kind of this little silhouette cardboard cutout, like, that they’re just kind of scooting up the tree. Like, only one

Clip:  of the legs actually moves.

Craig:  Like, one of the legs just kind of drags along.

Clip:  It’s their best effort.

Craig:  But we were used to this sort of thing back

Todd:  then too. This kinda happened. But it it at this point that he gets up to the top of the tree and he reaches in for the skull, but instead a little pterodactyl baby jumps out and he has this half hearted comedic back and forth with this pterodactyl baby who is, you know, chomping at him while he’s trying to get the skull. And the music in the background is this Todd at this point, you have to take stock of the movie you’re looking at. And if you thought you’re in the if you were getting a horror film

Craig:  yeah. You

Todd:  you you find this yourself about half an hour into this movie and there’s a guy at the top of a tree fighting with a baby pterodactyl over a crystal skull.

Craig:  And meanwhile, there’s, like, something scary crawling around underneath the moss behind Charlie, like, stalking him. We don’t know what it is, but the music makes it sound very scary. And then Jesse falls out of the tree and, like, as he’s falling, which takes, like, 10 seconds, he’s, like, catch me, Charlie. Catch me. Catch me. And Charlie’s just standing down there like, I got you, bro. I got you. And Jesse hits the ground and they fall through the floor of the jungle into the basement where gramps is and gramps says, why didn’t you use the stairs? Oh my god.

Clip:  Oh, it’s so

Craig:  goddamn funny. When Charlie kind of, you know, regains his senses, he realizes there’s something on his leg and he freaks out and he’s screaming. He’s like, ah, it’s eating my leg. It’s eating my leg. And it ends up being I don’t know what the word is.

Todd:  A doggerpillar. A doggerpillar. That’s the only way I can consider. It’s like an oversized caterpillar with a dog’s head.

Craig:  Oh my god. And it’s so cute. And it’s it’s a puppet. Like, it’s just so evidently a puppet. Like

Clip:  Mhmm.

Craig:  You know, foam rubber, but it’s adorable. And they keep it. Like, that’s the other the other cute thing. Like, they keep this cat or pupper or what I don’t know what it is. Catterpuppy? And they and, they eventually end up keeping the baby pterodactyl too. And, like, then the the pterodactyl goes running around, and it still got the skull and

Todd:  His mouth. Oh my god.

Craig:  Yeah. And and Jesse’s trying to get it, and he’s in the kitchen. And at this point, I’m just gonna call him Bill Maher because Bill Maher wants

Todd:  John.

Craig:  But Yeah. John. He wants to catch Jesse and something. And so, like, they’re he’s trying to get into the kitchen, and Charlie’s trying to get him out, and, but they they eventually get in there. And, it’s kind of a funny scene when he’s confronting Jesse. He’s like, well, do you have something to hide? I mean, I just you know, what’s going on? And he’s like, oh, fine. I’ll tell you. And he’s like

Clip:  Alright. Now Charlie and I, last night, went to the cemetery, and we dug up my great great grandfather’s Craig. Because we were looking for a crystal skull. It’s supposed to be magic. Anyway, we dug it up, and we got the skull, but we also found my great great grandfather. And he’s dead, but but he’s alive. I mean, he’s a mummy. And and we brought him back, and he’s been staying in the basement.  And and Charlie and I have just been running through this jungle trying to get the skull back. And that’s who’s in there for your information, mister Sherlock Holmes.

Craig:  But then he opens the closet, and Rochelle is in there. Why? I don’t know. She’s just been waiting around. She’s so dumb. Drunk waiting.

Todd:  And the other thing about it is Todd doesn’t even make any sense because he’s standing in front of this tall, like, floor to ceiling style pantry door in the kitchen. But the last place he chased a pterodactyl into was this small cabinet above the sink. So why he’s standing in front of this giant door and hiding it, it doesn’t even make any sense.

Craig:  Well, it also does. Okay. So I guess maybe they were in prehistoric times for a while, but when they left, there was a huge party going on. And when they come back, there’s nobody there.

Todd:  There’s nothing. Nothing. Oh, man.

Craig:  But that’s okay. Whatever. Yeah. So, anyway, the as it turns out, Kate and, the singer, whatever her name is, and John, they all leave, and we never see them again. The end. Like Yeah.

Todd:  Bye. She slapped.

Craig:  Nice to see you.

Todd:  There you go.

Craig:  Yeah. Whatever. Bye. And it turns out that Gramps was playing a joke. There was like a like a revolving wall in the closet and so he was on one side and Rochelle was on the other and eventually he says to Jesse, well, I I think I was in the mood to play a joke, but I’m sorry that you were the one I played it on. It’s just so silly but sweet too. And they they get the skull back, and there’s a a cute little moment where Gramps gives the caterpillar beer in a baby bottle. Adorable.  But when Gramps is trying to put the, skull back, he gets attacked by Aztecs. I mean, just, you know, terrible, stereotypical representation of

Todd:  Zulu warriors or something. Yeah. Who knows?

Craig:  Yeah. But he gets attacked and then so when, Jesse wakes up in the morning, he finds gramps, you know, knocked out on the floor. And, again, like, this is so dumb and inconsequential, but even the stuff that they were doing with the little caterpillar puppet, Like, when Gramps got knocked out and the little caterpillar puppet was, like, worried about him and, like, trying to wake him up. Like, it’s I was like, aw. Dogs are the best.

Todd:  You’re such a dog owner. Oh my god.

Craig:  I know. Shut up. That leads up to the the next adventure.

Todd:  It’s episodic. It’s kind of you know, I was even thinking, like, I don’t know why, but it was I was just getting shades of wax works in here too. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Todd:  These little episodic adventures into different lands and different worlds. But this was my favorite part of the movie.

Craig:  It’s super fun.

Todd:  Oh my and I actually give them a lot of credit for this bit when Cliff from Cheers comes in.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  John was it John Ratzenberger? Is that his name?

Craig:  Yeah. Who

Todd:  who you know you know. I mean, you know his voice. This guy Yes. Just like, Royal Dano. Like, he’s he’s a man all his own, and there’s nobody

Craig:  who

Todd:  will be like him. He comes in as an electrician. It’s just it just comes out of the blue. Like, oh, somebody called me. He said you because because earlier way earlier on in the movie, their lights weren’t working in one of the rooms or something. It’s a and he comes in. He’s no nonsense.

Clip:  What is the fuse box down there in the basement? Listen, Bill. I’m sorry to trouble you, but this really isn’t the right time. It’s alright, Jess. I’m not gonna get in your way. You just, show me what needs fixing. This is quite a room you got here. Yeah. Very, very nice.  It’s a weird fireplace, though. Yeah. A bill? A bill. What do we got in here? There it is.

Todd:  It’s just funny because it’s this huge pause in the action where there’s this urgency to get the skull and to rescue, to rescue the skull from these Aztecs, but Jesse has to deal with the electrician who wanders in first. He wanders out and he grabs a a sword along with I mean, I at this point, I was wondering whatever happened to the Uzis. But, he and Charlie grab swords and decide they’re gonna go into the fireplace to chase this to go into this Aztec. But now correct me if I’m wrong, were was the fireplace, like, sealed back up again? Was it a big pit? What was the deal? Why didn’t you decide they weren’t able to go into the fireplace after these?

Craig:  I don’t know. I never really under I never really understood. Like, Charlie pokes his sword in there and they hear some kind of scary noise, but then they don’t I I feel like they just get interrupted by Cliff. I don’t know who is he, John, whatever, the electrician. Mhmm.

Todd:  Electrician who’s been back there, like, pulling the wires out of the wall and, like, revealing a hole or whatnot.

Clip:  There it is.

Todd:  Looks like you got some kind of alternate universe in there or something. And, of course, he plays it totally straight and totally nonchalantly that I’m sorry. This is high comedy as far as I’m concerned. The rest of the movie has been low. This is high.

Craig:  John Ratzenberger is hilarious in this movie. He’s so funny.

Todd:  And so this is their like you said, they could now they’re in they dive into this, like, medieval or, you know, Aztec, whatever temple. It’s like Indiana Jones or young Sherlock Holmes or whatever. They walk in and sure enough they come into the interior of this Aztec temple and they look down and see that this, priest is about Todd sacrifice a virgin on or at least Charlie says, do you think she’s a virgin? Because I’ve never seen one of those. Stupid lines. And and but but it’s funny because the electrician just is like, he says, well, I’ve I’ve prepared for this. Did he pulls out his toolbox? He opens it up. He’s got a saber in there too. Like, he’s done this a 1000000 times

Craig:  as well. Oh, yeah.

Todd:  It’s it’s hilarious. I I really like this part just because Yeah. It’s really funny. So funny. And they go in there and they rescue the girl. That’s basically it and grab the skull at the same time.

Craig:  Yep. And it’s, you know, they’re swinging on ropes and they’re sword fighting like they sword fight every I know.

Todd:  It’s one of those moments where some of these guys can do anything and they’re so nonchalant about it Todd. Like, Jesse’s like like fighting a guy with a sword and another guy comes behind him and he swings a sword around and knocks him off and another guy approaches him from from behind without even turning around, he whacks him with his head his arm and he falls into the pit Todd. And all the whole time he’s smiling and seems like only half interested in what’s going on. It’s, it’s one of those.

Craig:  And and and the electrician is like, I’ll I’ll hold them off. You guys go ahead. Get back. And he sends them back and they’re, like, oh, I don’t see him behind us. Oh, no. And they get out and he’s standing out there, like, polishing up his tools, like, starting to get worried about you. Like and then when he leaves, he hands them his card, and it says, Bill Towner, electrician and adventurer. Adorable.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s cute.

Craig:  And and then we get the next scene right away. We cut to this

Todd:  Wacky dinner scene.

Craig:  Wacky, but so cute. Like, it’s this family dinner, and it’s it’s gramps and Charlie and Jesse and the virgin who speaks no English and the pterodactyl and the caterpillar. It’s cute, but it’s so dumb. I thought it was adorable. And they’re they’re all sitting around, and Charlie’s like, oh, somebody should say Craig. And, like, Jesse looks at Gramps and Gramps nods like, yeah. You should do it. And so then so Jesse, like, says grace or gives this toast or whatever, and he’s like, I consider you all my family.  Like, I and it as cheesy as it sounds, I appreciate how everybody just ran with it. Like, the guy who is playing Jesse, he plays it sincerely. Like, you guys are my family now. Like Yeah. Pterodactyl and But

Todd:  in the meantime, there’s, like, setting a place for the pterodactyl and they’re putting fruit in front of them and stuff. It’s so dumb. But it’s cute. I get where you’re coming from. And especially

Clip:  Oh, I

Craig:  think it’s cute.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s funny. But but you do get the sense at this point in the movie. I mean, we’re we’re only, like, 10 minutes away from the ending credits. Like, they felt like they had to wrap it up.

Craig:  It I mean, it’s certainly silly. There’s no question about that, but it’s it’s fun, sweet, silly. I like it. But so anyway, the food on the table, and I guess the entree is covered by this big bell jar or whatever, and Jesse lifts it up, and then this scary cowboy rises up out through the platter, through the table, and it’s Slim, you know, the the nemesis of Gramps’ nemesis. And Gramps is like, I knew you’d come. I’ve been waiting for you. And Charlie tries to grab a knife and Gramps is like, no. This he’s mine.  But then Slim shoots Gramps and Gramps goes down. And Slim takes the virgin girl, who, by the way, is this gorgeous playboy centerfold, like, who has no lines because she doesn’t speak any English. She’s just there to be pretty girl number 1, and, and Charlie goes and and chases after them like he’s gonna rescue the girl. And we’re left with Jesse and and Gramps and and Gramps is like, you have to get him. Here, take my gun. You’ll need this. He’s the one that killed your ma and pa. And so Jesse goes off on his mission, and he goes off to this room that we’ve seen before, which is, like, kind of this Wild West themed room with, like, you know, all these, taxidermied animals and things in it.  And, when he opens the curtains to the window, he sees that the window opens up into the Wild West. And he goes out there and Charlie and the Virgin are strung up on the gallows and and gagged, and Slim comes in on his stop motion corpse horse.

Todd:  I like that. Again, this is where I feel like, man, it looks so it looks kinda bad, but they It does. They tried. You know? And I really appreciate that that they they they didn’t pull any punches here. They were given a

Craig:  different Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is, and I do appreciate that they went for it. It doesn’t look great. It’s not, you know, it’s not the greatest effects you’ve ever seen.

Clip:  It’s not

Todd:  terrible, though.

Craig:  No. It’s not. I I like it. They kinda have a shoot off, and, Jesse gets shot in the arm, and, he ends up back in the house and then Slim is just kind of randomly stalking him around the house for a little bit, which was actually, I thought, kinda stupid. Yeah. It was really dumb. It went on it went on for too long.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s just one of those sequences where you just lose the energy of the pursuit, and it loses all logic, and suddenly you just get one scene after another scene of a character just quietly creeping through a room waiting for something terrible to happen to him.

Craig:  Right. And and Slim has, like, the gremlin voice and, like, he Jesse. Like, he just keeps saying his name. It’s silly. Anyway, eventually, the cops show up because they’ve heard gunshots. And I guess wherever they live, the way that the cops work is if they hear gunshots, they just surround the house with a SWAT team. They’re like, we’re gonna shoot you. We’re gonna shoot you if

Todd:  you don’t come out. Yeah. It’s the great cops.

Craig:  Eventually, Slim and Jesse end up facing off again, and Jesse, shoots literally his head off, shoots Slim’s head off and the and he gets the skull back. He goes back to Gramps who’s laying in a bed and he’s got the skull and Gramps again is super cute. Did you blow his head off? That’s a good boy. I thought for sure he’d kick your ass, but I didn’t let Odd know. Like, I can’t I can’t tell you how much this guy reminds me of my mom’s dad who passed away a long time ago, but he was just so country. And and then they just have this very sweet farewell where Jesse’s like, well, I’ve got the skull. Now you’re okay. And he’s like, no.  You know, I’ve lived. I’ve done everything I wanted to do in this life and he says, you keep the skull and get from it what you want and then get rid of the goddamn thing. He says, I love you and they embrace and gramp says, I love you Todd, Jesse. And again, Royal Dano, you know, in this heavy makeup his eyes are just so expressive. Like, it just oh my god. And he’s teary eyed and it it it’s not even really a sad moment. It’s just so sweet and, he dies and then the cops say they’re gonna count to 10 till they open fire and then it turns out that Slim, even though he has no head, is still alive and he stands up and he shoots at Jesse, but Jesse ducks and so the cops think that somebody’s shooting at them, so they open fire. I guess the cops fire, takes out Slim and Jesse grabs Gramps’s corpse and he grabs the caterpillar and the pterodactyl and he goes walking through this door that’s just, you know, it looks like the bright lights of heaven or whatever.  Yeah. And he walks through. And then it’s the last scene and, Jesse places the skull on a burial mound, of stones, presumably Gramps. And we see Charlie and the Virgin waiting for Jesse, on an Todd west stagecoach, or not really a stagecoach, but a wagon, and they ride off into the sunset together like

Todd:  Along with the doggar pillar and the pterodactyl. Yeah.

Craig:  And they’re apparently just gonna live happily ever after in the old west and Oh, man. It’s lovely. I have to

Todd:  say so the first house, I really enjoyed. And it was a little silly, but it had it’s it was scary. It was r Todd. And it had, you know

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  It was not nearly as silly and as funny as this one was. This one is definitely different, from the other one in a major way, I think. Like you said, they’re tangentially related. At the end of the day, they’re 2 very different movies. But there is a certain charm to this film, and we’ve been talking about it throughout. And for its time, it was 1 a month. I mean, it was kinda like like I said, it just felt like Monster Squad all over again. You know, kind of a low rent Goonies slash adventure story of crazy things happening to everyday people in fantastical ways that you can watch with your family.  Nowadays, man, I don’t know. Maybe No.

Craig:  I don’t think it would play over

Clip:  very often.

Todd:  Doesn’t really doesn’t really work, and the jokes don’t really work. It’s just not sophisticated enough. It is kinda disappoint I mean, honestly, like, I really enjoy I enjoyed watching it again. I enjoyed revisiting it. I kinda wanna watch it again with my wife because it’s totally safe for her, and she might get a

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. But honestly, I don’t think I’ll watch it again and it’s kinda sad that I remembered it being just a little edgier than it than it really was. Man, I I must have been really young to think this movie was edgy.

Craig:  I I I remember it so fondly too. And in watching it again from a critical perspective, I was able to say, oh, okay. You know? Like, this this really isn’t a good movie, but I will watch it again. In fact, this is one of those movies that I would just put on any time. If I’m cleaning the house, if I wanna take a nap, like, this would just be something great for me, and and I’m sure that it has to do with my nostalgia for it, but if I woke up for a few minutes from my nap to see that little caterpillar a have kids, but you do. And I would think that this, you know, when Kenji gets to be of a certain age

Todd:  He would love this movie.

Craig:  He he would. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. He really would. But then past a certain age, he would not like it at all.

Craig:  Right. Right. Probably not. Yeah. But, you know, it just leaves

Todd:  you with questions like, what the hell does the skull do anyway? Like Right. You know what I mean? Like, everybody wants it and whatnot, but there’s nothing clear in the movie why it’s really that important. All it does is sit on a shelf and glow.

Craig:  Everybody wants it, and it’s so important. And we have to protect it from the forces of evil. But at the end, just, you know, leave it in a pile in the desert. Zach. But it’s out of my hands.

Todd:  I will say, though, this movie is better than it gets credit for. Like, it it has, like, a lousy I think it was at 0% at one point, a lot of Tomatoes. I think it has a 10% now. You could find hardly anything about it online, and I can’t figure that out. I can’t figure out why because we’ve seen so many movies that are so much worse than this.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, I mean, it it it premiered alongside The Color Purple and some other big blockbuster movie. And so upon its release, it got lost in the shuffle, which I you know, fine. Whatever. I’m I’m a little bit surprised that it played in theaters at all.

Todd:  It does have a straight to video feel to it.

Craig:  What I do know is they rushed it into production. Apparently, again, with the success of the first movie that I was unaware of, they wanted to get a sequel right away. So they rushed it in a production, and the screenwriter only had 2 weeks to write the script, which maybe explains some things. It shows. And and it and it it premiered a year after the release of the first one. So, you know, they they really rushed into it, but whatever. You know? Can I even really say it’s a good movie? No. But I really enjoy it.  I think it’s fun. I it makes me wish I had kids so that I could sit down with my 8 year old. You know, if this is the first scary movie we’re gonna watch, okay, you may see some things that are gonna be a little bit scary, but it’s just pretend. And, you know, like, it’s, you know, it’s it’s that safe. And and, ultimately, you know, nobody dies, well, except for Gramps, but he’s old and whatever. Anyway, I I I still, appreciate it. I know it’s not a great movie and, if you’re listening to this and you have any thoughts about this movie at all, please, share them. I hope that there are those of you out there who can appreciate it for what it was or those of you who are about our age who maybe have fond memories of it, but, I’m not going to recommend it as some sort of gem or anything.  It’s just it’s it’s cute and sweet, and I’m a sap, and I like that sweet stuff. And

Todd:  It’s it’s kind of a time capsule. It’s 1987 is written all over it, you know? And for that, if you if you’re like us and you’re nostalgic for that, I think you’ll you’ll you’ll you’ll enjoy it to an extent.

Craig:  To an extent. Yeah. Put that caveat on there. Okay. Fair enough. Alright. Well, thank you for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this episode, we have lots and lots and lots of back episodes.  You can find us on Facebook. You can find us on, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, and we’ll be back with you, for the next couple weeks doing, some more sequels, and we’ll get into some grittier stuff than House 2. Anyway, until next time. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Tom.

Craig:  With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Sometimes called “The gayest horror film ever made,” we felt it was the appropriate topic to kick off our month of #2’s: sequels that did something different with the original, for better or worse.

Episode 114, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  tHello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And Todd, we are back again with another notorious number 2 horror film. This being February, the 2nd month of the year, in case you haven’t figured out how clever we are. If you haven’t figured out how clever we we are, you’ll figure it out later as we go along through this podcast, I’m sure. Yeah. Friday 13th part 2.  So this is a film that, I think both you and I, Craig, realized that needed to be on this list. Our

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  We really were aiming for number twos that had some significant departure from the first or were in some way weird or significant. And this is definitely a bit of an outlier in the series, kind of along with the first one in a way. Because after the first two, all the rest of them, to my mind, are all the same. Yeah. When people think of of Jason Voorhees in the Friday 13th series, they think of this guy in a hockey mask running around. But, if you’re familiar with the first movie, spoiler alert, or you’ve seen Scream, you will know that, actually, in the first film, it’s not Jason who goes around and kills anybody. It’s Jason’s mother. She is basically taking revenge against the camp counselors for allowing her child to drown.  Only at the end of the movie after missus Voorhees is dispatched and the producers stepped in and said, you know, we really wanna add a jump scare at the end. Did they add an extra scene where Alice, the final girl on that one is floating around in a canoe, and this deformed kid jumps up out of the lake and drags her down in, which paves the way for the sequel in a way, and in a way really not. This movie opens up with Alice. She is older, and the first, gosh, almost 10 minutes of this film are nothing but flashbacks to the first film just to catch you up on it, laying in bed, tossing and turning, and playing bits from the first movie in her head over and over again. And before that happens, we do see some legs walk across the street, towards her house. So we know that Alice herself may be in a bit of danger. And and she was played by Adrienne King who, you know, replies to her role from the first film. She had a bit of a problem actually, after the first movie.  Wasn’t terribly interested in coming back in for this movie because she had a stalker problem that was pretty serious. But she end up coming back for this film anyway. And depending on which account you believe, either she wanted her herself to be ended for the movie so that she didn’t have to participate in any future ones, or she asked for the door to be left open for her to participate in the future ones, but they just didn’t do that.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s what I heard.

Todd:  Yeah. In either case, it makes a little more sense of the latter. If she had a stalker problem, you know, I don’t think she’d wanna continue. Very few people involved in the first movie wanted to be involved in the second movie because they thought it was really stupid.

Craig:  Yeah. And it and it is, I mean, it’s kinda stupid. Whatever. I mean, the series gets far more stupid moving forward, but, yeah, I mean, it doesn’t make really any sense. The opening scenes of this movie are supposed to be soon after the events of, the first movie and and Alice’s, you know, dealing with her trauma or whatever, many people involved, like you said, were not interested in returning because they thought, well, if Jason was alive the whole time, then missus Voorhees’ motivation in the whole movie is suspect. Like, why is she running around killing all these people out of revenge if Jason was alive the whole time? Did she not know? Like, I I think I read somewhere that somebody said what like, is Jason, like, surviving on acorns, like, out in the woods and nobody sees him? Like, where where is where is he? Has where has he been?

Todd:  Where’s he been for these, like, 30 years?

Craig:  Yeah. And it it also doesn’t really make any sense because the events of the this movie, except for the opening scene, which is supposed to be right after the events of the first movie, the rest of the movie is supposed to take place 5 years after, the events of the first. In the first movie, when Jason jumps out of the water and grabs Alice, he’s still clearly a kid, like, maybe a teenager, maybe an adolescent, but, in this movie, he is certainly an adult man. Yeah. So it really doesn’t make any sense, but ultimately, who cares?

Todd:  Money talks. Right. That’s basically it. The first movie had Tom Savini, you know, doing the makeup effects. He decided because he thought it was stupid, he wasn’t gonna come back. Instead, he went and did a movie that we have reviewed before called The Burning, which he thought would do a little bit better, but didn’t. Even though I think it’s a fine film, they were all rip offs of each other. Even the Friday 13th was a rip off of Halloween.  And then, there was high pressure to get to get on John Carpenter to get Halloween 2 out after this movie came out. So, yeah. This is all just a very cannibalistic process at this time period in 1981, when, everybody’s trying to leap on the slasher bandwagon. Even Sean Cunningham, the director from the first film, wasn’t really involved. I think he did come back a little bit to help with a little bit of pre production on it and some of the casting, but he wasn’t interested. He also thought it was stupid. So he’d really paved the way for a few other people to come in and actually get a bit of a start here. I I was interested to see that the director of this film was Steve Miner who did House.  Yeah. And then I think he also went on to do Warlock and H2O Halloween in the nineties. Yeah.

Craig:  He did some work on the Wonder Years. He did part 3 Todd.

Todd:  You’re right. Friday 13th. The producer, Frank Mancusco Manusco junior happened to be the I think he’s the son of the head of Paramount at the time, jumped on here. I mean, he was, like, fresh out of college, like, 22, 23, jumped on here to produce because the original producer wasn’t interested, and, then ended up producing all the rest of the movies in the series as well as the TV show and and a lot of other stuff. Actually, ended up being a really big name, in producing. But, you know, I mean, come on. If you’re the son of the head of Paramount, what Right. What else you gonna do? This movie is rocketed into stardom.  Right. But anyway, I had seen this movie before because one Halloween, I put it to myself that I was gonna watch all of the Friday 13th from the first one all the way through the, what, 26th one or whatever was was out of this time. And I know you’re a big fan of these or just you’re a fan of these. I’m I’ve never really been a big fan of these, but I did my best and I think I got through, I think I’ve turned off Jason Goes Todd New York well before he even got to New York, and I said this is dumb. I’m I really can’t sit through any more of these movies. But I do have a healthy respect for the first one, and this one, and I think it’s either the which is the one with Corey Feldman in it.

Craig:  Maybe 3.

Todd:  3 or 4?

Clip:  I don’t

Craig:  no, no, no, no. Yeah. It’s it’s gotta be 4. I I don’t remember. 3 is where he gets the mask. I don’t know. It it goes all over the place. To say I’m a big fan would be a stretch, Even though I like the Nightmare on Elm Street series far more, I’m a fan of these movies for a similar reason, in that it was just something throughout my childhood that these movies would come out and it was something that I was familiar with and it was just fun and exciting to have a new one every year or every couple of years.  It’s not that they’re great. They’re they’re not great. Like, I I I really do like the first two. I think that the first one is interesting in that, you know, the killer is kind of unexpected, and the first one really is very much a suspense film. Yeah. You’ve got the killing and the gore, but it’s it’s it’s kind of a murder mystery. You know, who is it? And then when missus Voorhees, shows up at the end I mean, you don’t even see her until the very very end of the movie. She just pops up, like, hello.  I’m this strange character you’ve never seen before. Let’s talk for a minute before I try to kill you.

Todd:  Yeah. Exposition lady.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean that was kinda cool and, who’s the lady that played Mrs. Voorhees? Betsy Palmer. Betsy Palmer. I liked her as a villain because at the same time that she’s very much, you know, just like kind of a motherly, grandmotherly type presence with her appearance and her voice, she is actually very scary. Yeah. Like, she’s she’s clearly very unhinged and, she’s she’s a frightening presence. And then this one, you know, the second one, it’s so formulaic.  You know, when I was watching this, I was thinking whereas maybe Halloween should get a lot of the credit for establishing the slasher movie. It’s really Friday 13th, and I think especially Friday 13th part 2 that really sets up the formula for the eighties teen slasher movie. I mean, it just really doesn’t get more formulaic than this movie. I mean, you’ve got this mysterious killer who kills a bunch of teenagers who are doing the sex and the drugs and, you know, and and that’s that’s legit all it is.

Todd:  Like, there’s nothing more to

Craig:  it than that. And, and then they move on. In in part 3, he gets the mask, which is iconic and great, but it’s really still the same formula, a bunch of teenagers out of the camp. And then after that, you know, they realized, of course, that if they were gonna continue this, they couldn’t just keep making the same exact movie over and over again, and so they did different stuff with it. But in this movie and that’s one of the things that I appreciate in this movie. In this movie, Jason is still just a backwoods deformed, you know, socially inept guy. Yeah. And, you know, he he’s just a guy and and you can fight a guy.  Later on in the series, he becomes, you know, like this zombie unstoppable monster demon force. Right? Which is, again, you know, I that’s fine. I I don’t have a problem with it, but I I do appreciate that in this movie, it’s a little bit more grounded, not necessarily realistic by any stretch of the imagination, but, you know, he’s not this unstoppable supernatural force. He’s just a backwoods guy, who, you know, they kinda have a fighting chance against and Yeah. It is what it is. It’s funny. I don’t I don’t have a whole lot watching it again. And and I’ve watched these movies many, many times.  In fact, when I was in, I don’t know, junior high, high school, I had a VHS tape that had Friday 13th part 12 on it. And that VHS tape got a lot of use because I would watch it. I would take it to, you know, friends’ houses if we were gonna stay up late and have a movie night, and we would just watch them back to back 1 and 2. And it was fun. I I watched them a lot. They’re fun popcorn kinda slasher movies, but watching it again and, oh my gosh, I didn’t even realize how long it had been. It’s got to have been at least 15 years since I’ve seen this movie. Mhmm.  But watching it again, I’m, like, oh, man. It’s so formulaic and

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Really a little bit hokey. I guess, to be fair, it it just probably hasn’t aged well, and that must be just because so many. We’ve seen so many of these Yeah. Since. At the time, you know, of course, there had been the Giallo films. It’s not like, you know, slasher movies, killer movies were a new thing, but this I feel like this and Halloween, really kind of set the mold for a certain genre of horror films that is still thriving, you know. People are still making these movies, and people are enjoying them. So, it certainly has its place in horror cinematic history, So I’m not gonna take that away from it, but from a modern perspective, it’s a little bit, yeah, been there, seen it.  Yeah.

Todd:  I guess, yeah, the most disappointing stuff is probably, like, the acting, the writing, all the stuff that happens in between the killings is really good. It’s all a groaner. I mean, it actually makes the burning look quite Todd. And I think we enjoyed the burning, but one thing I think we had to say about the burning is that it had a lot of heart. And I think we felt like the characters in that film seemed like real people, seemed like normal, you know, campers that we would wanna hang out with and spend time with. Whereas everybody in this film feels like a like a movie character. You know?

Craig:  Oh, yeah. It’s just a a bunch of horny 20 somethings. Like, that’s that’s all they boil down to. Like, there’s 1 guy in a wheelchair, so I guess that makes him kind of interesting. But beyond that, they’re just a bunch of rowdy, horny. There’s I I assume they’re supposed to be late teens, early twenties, but, I mean, they’re obviously all in their twenties. And, you know, that’s that’s something that’s funny about it too. Like, the the whole premise is that, it’s 5 years after the original events, and they’re not actually at Camp Crystal Lake, which they refer to as Camp Blood because of the events of the first movie.  They’re not actually there, but they’re they’re on Crystal Lake. Right? They’re, like, hopscrip a little jump away. And, there it’s it’s all of these, counselors. They’re at a camp counselor training facility. Is that a thing? Like, I was never a camp counselor. I was never, you know, one of the camper type of kids, but, I didn’t I didn’t know that they had to go to school for that.

Todd:  I don’t know. I yeah. It’s a good question. And maybe it was to save money, you know, and maybe it was to to get some slightly older people involved so they didn’t have to worry too much about, like, minors or whatnot. And, like, you you have a slightly older population now. Right? They’re not.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  They’re older teens and and not the younger ones. Like, if you watch Sleepaway Camp, you know, there are kids in that movie that Yeah. They’re, like, 9 12. Whereas these people, I think they’re still supposed to be 1920, but they still look like they’re, you know, 28, 30. Yeah. But I think, you know, I think it takes a little bit of the bite out of Jason a little bit just because, like you said, he is just kind of a backwoods guy. And with the loss of the mystery, those two things combined, I think, make this one of the I don’t know. It’s I guess, I should say, every time some legs came on the screen and started walking towards somebody or, you know, a hand pushed aside a bush so that they could creep peek out at somebody else, I think, it just didn’t seem that sinister to me, as impending as the later films do, when you know that, you know, Jason is just is a zombie dude who could be anywhere he wants to be.

Craig:  Well, to be fair, I guess in 1981, people wouldn’t have necessarily known. They wouldn’t have the context that we have. For sure. And they, you know, they wouldn’t have known that necessarily that this was Jason. It could have been anybody. You know, they the the this movie does the same thing that, the first movie did by introducing the creepy character of Craig Ralph. Oh, yeah. Crazy Ralph was in the first movie too, and you wondered if he was the killer, and he comes And Craig it.  Like, you’re all doomed. That’s it. Like, I feel like that’s his only line in the movie. And then he creeps around for a while, and so, you know, people in 1981 may not they wouldn’t have had the expectation, that we have. And I can see how coming from our perspective, this seems a little bit tame just because eventually Jason is this bio like like he’s in space and he’s like That’s right.

Todd:  He’s bursting out of graves and yeah. He Right. He’s appearing in one place and then suddenly disappearing and appearing in another place. Just it’s like he’s outside of time and space itself.

Craig:  There are demons flying out of his face and, you know, like Yeah. Yeah. The the stakes are raised, the later movies. Just a little bit. Eventually, he turns into, like, an evil worm that can infest other people.

Todd:  And here, he’s he’s a hillbilly with a pillowcase over his head.

Craig:  You’re right. Right. So, yeah, the it’s it’s a little bit less climactic with within the context, but it it seemed much fresher in 1981 than it seems today.

Todd:  Of course.

Craig:  When I was thinking about talking about this and I was thinking about plot, you know, and I took all these notes with all, you know, the details of what happens, but after Alice is killed, and and she is, you know, like you said, she has those flashbacks and then she wakes up and she has a phone call with her mother which I read was entirely unscripted because when Adrian King came back to do this movie, she only wanted to be in it for a little bit because she was dealing with, like you said, that stalker problem. And so she showed up and she hadn’t even been given a script. She didn’t even know that Jason was the killer when she showed up on set, and she only shot for 2 days. It’s just this scene with her, and there are some jump scares with her cat and, you know, silly stuff.

Todd:  What? But eventually The cat jumpscare is hilarious because she goes into the kitchen, the windows open as she approaches it. It literally looks like somebody threw the cat in the window. Yeah. It definitely does. Poor cat was probably more surprised than she was.

Craig:  Yeah. And and, you know, we see somebody in, like, workman’s boots and jeans or, you know, work pants or something stalking around outside her house. And there’s a lot of not a lot as an exaggeration, but there are several things in this movie that are just kind of hilarious in the context of the whole thing, like like, Jason Prank calls her. That’s like You know, it’s not like he’s heavy breathing or, like, asking her if her refrigerator is running or anything, but, like, he he he, like, calls her and she answers and and he hangs up. And, also, like, I have no idea where she’s supposed to be. Like, after all of her friends were murdered in Crystal Lake, did she just, like, get an apartment there? Like, it doesn’t make sense

Todd:  to me. To me. That’s true. Either that or Jason, like, learned to drive, and he had to, like, lure her up in the phone book or something to drive to her house.

Craig:  Right. And and he finds her, apparently. And my favorite part about this scene is that she opens up her refrigerator, and missus Voorhees’ head,

Todd:  which

Craig:  Alice had chopped off in the first one, is in her refrigerator. And, she screams, and then Jason kills her with an ice pick. And, like, I read that there was an accident. The ice pick was supposed to be retractable, and it didn’t retract, so she was actually injured. And she didn’t know she was gonna be killed off, but she was. And you kind of briefly mentioned it before, but that scene, this is all pre credits. It’s 16 minutes, I think, before we get the the the title Mhmm. And and the credits.  And the the title comes on Friday 13th

Todd:  in, like, big block letters and it explodes. Mark 2 jumps in. And then the title sequence is long Todd, and it’s just music with a black screen and words coming up on it. I mean, it’s really kind of strange how they put it together. I felt like maybe they were trying Todd pad it pad it with the extra footage from the first movie, pad it with a really long Craig scene. And like you said, this whole sequence that’s really long before the the credits, I think, is actually really well done. Yeah. If you look at it, it’s only 2 or 3 shots.  He he does these really long takes where he’s following her through the house and I’m sure that’s why it took so long was just to get everything very right. But I think overall, this might be one of the better made of the films as far from a, you know, just from a cinematography perspective.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. I don’t think it’s poorly made really at all and and actually as I was watching there are some shots of them, the counselors who we eventually get to, like, walking through the woods and I, you know, I’m watching it this time, I’m, like, oh, the color looks really nice here. Oh my goodness. Like, things that I’ve never considered before we started doing this. But, I thought that, you know, the the cinematography was pretty good and that opening scene is interesting and, you know, I enjoy it. You know, you reconnect with the the the main character from the first movie, which draws you in. That’s great. And then you get to the movie proper which by the time you get there is really only an hour long movie.

Todd:  Mhmm.

Craig:  It’s about these camp counselors and they all arrive at this training facility and you’re introduced to all of them and they’re all young and hot and, you know, fun and that’s great. And the main character shows up, Jenny, and she’s played by Amy Steele. Is that yeah. Amy Steele. Mhmm. And she’s kind of this sassy blonde who doesn’t follow the rules and in a romantic relationship with the guy who’s running the place. And from that point on, it’s just kind of shenanigans leading up to each of the well, a group of the counselors. I actually thought this was really clever.  Okay. 1st, they have all the counselors there and there’s a whole bunch of them. And they have a campfire where Paul, the main the guy who’s training the counselors, I guess, they have this big bonfire and he tells the legend of Jason Voorhees.

Clip:  I’m gonna give it to you straight about Jason. His body was never recovered from the lake after he drowned. And if you listen to the old timers in town, they’ll tell you he’s still out there. Some sort of demented creature surviving in the wilderness. Full grown by now.

Craig:  And it’s this fun campfire thing where he’s telling the story and then at the end, the goofy guy, Todd jumps out in, a mask with a spear and he’s got like a loincloth on and everybody’s scared and Then there’s some goofiness where, like, they’re, you know, people are talking and they’re swimming and they’re doing counsellory type things and a couple of the kids go off to try to find camp blood, and throughout all of this, you’re getting the killer point of view shots. So we you know that somebody is lurking and watching. Mhmm. But a couple of them go off, Jeff and Sandra, go off looking for Camp Blood, and you think surely that they’re gonna be the first ones to go, but they’re not. The cops catch them and and bring them back. And it what I was trying to get to is that eventually, what I think that they do that is really smart is they get most of them out of there. Like Yeah. Like, after all of this happens, Paul says

Clip:  Anybody wants a last night on the town, now’s your chance.

Todd:  Yeah. I’ll get you the whole.

Clip:  Okay. Who else? William Tarrant. Oh, and by the way, our wanderers have volunteered to stay behind and watch the camp. Isn’t that nice? Uh-huh.

Craig:  And 2 thirds of them leave. Yeah. So we’re only left with a third of them left. So then we just get to watch them get picked off 1 by 1 after they start doing the sex and the drugs. Yep.

Todd:  And it’s really not even that much sex and drugs, especially compared to later of the films, you know. Yeah. I mean, it’s really pretty tame all around. I mean, I think they’re smoking some weed. Yeah. And a few characters have sex, and that’s

Craig:  It’s a gate wager at

Todd:  the top. Is it the okay. Right? You you should be taking this more seriously. What are the sex scenes too? I was I mean, Sandra and Jeff who go upstairs, they’re gonna have sex while the wheelchair guy and the his girl the girl who’s coming on to him are downstairs playing handheld video games. Yeah. Which is impressive for 1981. I mean, I remember what those were like. They were pretty lame.  They they keep you occupied for about 5 minutes, then you have to move on to other activities. But anyway, yeah, the the the 2 upstairs, you know, their sex scene is actually mostly not there because, apparently, they had a whole long sequence of full frontal nudity and everything, and it turned out the Paramount learned that the actress was, underage. Yep. So they they cut that. And and this this scene, we did Bay of Blood earlier, that, older giallopic Italian movie that was a precursor to these and arguably precursor to all of these slasher movies and really set that pattern. And this death is just ripped straight out of there, even though Mhmm. The the makers of this film swear that they didn’t. It’s the same thing, and it’s so much the same that there’s no way they couldn’t have.  And that is that Jason grabs a spear that happens to be there. This is what goofy man, you know, was dancing around with at the campfire and had put it up against the wall. Grabs a spear, goes up the stairs, and the 2 of them were laying down in bed, and he just spears through them both. And what what could’ve been, like like in Bay of Blood, a really amazing and incredibly cool, you know, scene ended up getting cut. I mean, there’s very little sex. You just see them on top of each other for a split second, and you see the spear approach from the same point of view shot as in Bay of Blood. But then, it cuts to a shot underneath the mattress, and you see the the bloody tip of the spear come through, and that’s it. I don’t even think you see the aftermath, and I think that was cut.  That was one of the scenes that was really had to be cut in order to avoid, getting an x rating. The only thing

Craig:  that you see of the aftermath because another actress, you know, and it’s it’s funny because you know once they get rid of most of the counselors, then Jason just starts picking them off really quick. And don’t be sad, horror fans, if you haven’t seen this movie because you do get plenty of nudity.

Todd:  Nudity of blood.

Craig:  But before this, you get, you know, a a very attractive skinny young lady stripping down to go skinny dipping, which

Todd:  For no good reason.

Craig:  Right. Well,

Todd:  she’s looking for her dog, Muffins. Yes.

Craig:  That’s gone missing Muffin. Muffins. Muffins. Where are you, Muffins?

Todd:  Well, I think I might take a quick dip. All this looking for muffins has gotten me hot. Practically naked before she took her clothes off because

Craig:  she was wearing like this this top that’s cut right below her breasts and no bra.

Todd:  No bra.

Craig:  And she was leaving nothing to imagination anyway. But she goes skinny dipping. And I read I don’t know if this is true or not, but that this was kind of, you know, what started the whole if you go skinny dipping, you die, trope in in horror. But and, okay, this is so random, but funny story. I was watching this I was watching this and, my partner came home and he wanted to talk to me about what we were gonna have for dinner. And so he’s like, can you pause? And I said, yeah. And I paused it and it was right at the scene where this girl, I don’t remember her name, was was stripping, and she was almost entirely nude, like, she was pulling her bottoms off. He saw me pause it right in that moment.  He’s, like, what are you watching? And I said, Friday 13th, 2. And he said, is that that gayest movie you’ve ever seen movie? And I said, no. And then I just kinda let it go. Like, that’s the most random question ever. And later, he was like, oh, yeah. You were watching that gay movie. And I’m like, what are you talking about? It was a naked chick on the screen. And he was like, oh, I thought it was a dude.

Todd:  Actually, I could see how he would think that. Yeah.

Craig:  He said he said, I guess everybody was just really skinny in the seventies. But anyway, the naked chick gets teased and taunted by a guy and then he runs off with her clothes and he ends up getting pulled up into a rope trap.

Todd:  That was pretty brutal.

Craig:  I I didn’t really under, like, did Jason set a rope trap? Did somebody else set a rope trap as a joke? I don’t know. But anyway, they so Jason slits his throat and then she comes back to cut him down because she had to go get a knife to cut him down or whatever. And she comes back and he’s dead and then she gets killed with something. It’s just boom boom boom boom boom. Yeah. Pretty quickly. These counselors get picked off in a in a matter of, I would guess what, maybe 15 minutes. Everybody who stayed back at camp just gets slaughtered.

Todd:  By this point, we’re we’re at least 3 quarters of the way through the movie. I mean, they kinda have to. Yeah. There’s There’s been just a bunch of nonsense up until then. And not, like I said, not even really interesting nonsense. A lot of really goofy banter back and forth.

Clip:  Mark, what happened? Did you have to be in a chair?  Motorcycle accident. Paralyzed my legs.  Is it permanent?  Doctor thinks so. I don’t. I don’t intend to be in this thing the rest of my life.  Just your legs, Is everything else okay?  Oh, I do alright. One way or another.

Todd:  The wheelchair dude gets picked off as well.

Craig:  I remember this scene. I don’t know if it’s iconic or if it’s just iconic in my head, but he gets sliced A machete to the face. With the machete and then his wheelchair goes flying down the stairs. And and it like, you don’t even see him land at the bottom. Like, they, they freeze it. Like, you get a freeze frame of him just in process of of going down the stairs, but it it sticks in my mind. It’s a a pretty cool image.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s it’s it’s interesting, actually. Like I said, when I say this is maybe more well made, it feels like the director here has some ideas. And even with this bit where, like you said, it’s going the the wheelchair is going backwards down with him on it, going backwards down these steps. And suddenly, there’s a freeze frame and the freeze frame kinda zooms in on it and then kinda goes to white. It’s just a really jarring thing that I think has a has a certain effect of really burning that image in your brain and making it Mhmm. Just a little more impactful even though we really didn’t get to see a whole lot, you know, of the detail of the gore and stuff. It was pretty well done.  I thought maybe a good way. I imagined anyway that this is one of those cases where they had to cut seconds off of this. And this was a way for him to to do that and keep the impact.

Craig:  Well, and I know they did. I can’t imagine that this is one of those scenes, but I know that they did have to cut almost a minute of footage to avoid getting an x Craig, which is is so funny to me. I know that Wes Craven struggled with the the ratings board all the time and was always having to cut his movies, to avoid x or NC 17 ratings. But it’s just so funny to watch a movie like this and think that they had to cut it down to avoid an x Craig. Yeah. Because by modern standards, it is unbelievably tame. Like, like, this is stuff that you could easily see on network television, you know, like, 7 or 8 o’clock at night. It’s I don’t know if to say we’ve come a long way is the right way of putting it, but things have changed since 1981.

Todd:  Saw, this is not. Let’s put it that way. No. Still, this is not for by any stretch of the imagination. Yeah. So yeah. Alright. Well, I’m just gonna show you the head upstairs upstairs.  Let me show you the head. Right? Just, like,

Craig:  go down the checklist. Right? Yeah. So so they all get killed. I mean, there’s a lot of goofiness with, like, the girl who is trying to seduce the wheelchair guy and, like, the wheelchair guy is cute. I might wanna seduce him too. I get it. So but she, like, she goes and, like, sprays perfume, like, on her vagina. Meanwhile, he’s getting a machete to the face, and then she comes back and and she finds No.

Todd:  No. No. No. No. But before in order before she does that, she changes from her from her sexy black panties to her sexy brown pants. Sexy brown panties. I actually thought her black panties were far sexier. I don’t know what you were saying.  Understand what was going on there. I was like, did the prop people swap this?

Craig:  Yeah. Her satin brown panties looked a little droopy. I don’t know. Yeah.

Todd:  They sure did.

Craig:  But, yeah, she changes into her sexy brown panties, and then she goes back and she there’s, like, a clubhouse where they all hang out. And, she goes back and her wheelchair guy is gone because he’s dead and she can’t find him. And then it’s really quiet, so she can’t find anybody. She knows that Jeff and, Sandra were upstairs having sex, so she goes to look for them. And she opens the door and they’re in bed under the sheets, but they’re not responding to her. And so, like, she goes over and starts to pull back the sheet and Jason pops up in the bed. Yeah. That was good.  Which I thought yeah. It was a great scare. I didn’t see that coming.

Todd:  It was a little bit it’s a bit of a nod to Halloween though. This is the first time that we actually see Jason’s head. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. He’s got the

Todd:  it’s basically if you know the town that’s dreaded sundown and the Bandido in that, it’s exactly the same look. And I guess it was a costume designer who decided that a pillowcase pulled over his head, tied around the neck or whatever with a with a couple holes cut in it would be something that this guy living in the woods for all this time would have ready access to. Right. Because, you know, there’s, like, a Bed Bath and Beyond around the corner or something. So but but but because, you know, if you look back at this at the scene in Halloween when the girl is in bed, and she thinks that her boyfriend is coming in. You know, this is right after they have sex. And it turns out to be Mike Myers, and he’s approaching her with the sheet. This is almost just a flip flop of that scene instead of Yeah.  Her in bed and somebody coming to, you know, the killer coming towards him in a sheet. This is another girl coming in and the killer coming out of bed in the sheet, but I just I it felt like almost the same scene to me.

Craig:  I don’t know. I guess it’s been so long since I’ve seen that movie. I didn’t think about it, but I didn’t remember this. You know, I remember so much about this movie, and I didn’t remember this. And when he popped out from under the sheet, I jumped a little bit.

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. And then after that, the camera changes perspective and and films the girl who was coming in from, like, facing her front. And then you see behind her that the guy, Jeff or whoever it is, is, like, impaled and hanging up on the wall, and she kind of cowers back against him and and then she gets stabbed, I think. Yeah. Jason utilizes many utensils and He does. He’s got a he’s got a machete. He’s got a knife. He’s got a pitchfork.  He’s got all kinds of things.

Todd:  He settles on the machete eventually, but this one, he’s he’s trying them all out to see which one

Craig:  fits Yeah.

Todd:  Meanwhile, we’ve got the bar scene. They’re at this big bar. The rest of them are

Craig:  Bar and Casino. But yeah. That cracks me up. They pull up to this place, which, like, we’ve told you all before that, you know, Todd’s lived all over the world, but, at one time we both lived in, you know, a small Midwestern Todd, and I’ve lived here all my life. I’ve seen these places.

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  Like, these these dives, these country dives, they’re, like, restaurant, bar, casino, gas station. That’s right. In a,

Todd:  like, a large converted house that’s been added on to over the years to some kind of crazy monstrosity. I just loved it that they

Craig:  were going to this bar, and you see on one side of it, there’s just this little sign, casino. Casino. They probably got, like, 2 slot machines in there.

Todd:  But you you know what’s hilarious? As I was looking through the credits at the end, special thanks to casino blah blah blah. And I was like, are you kidding me? They didn’t Oh, Todd. That was

Craig:  a real location? That’s hilarious.

Todd:  Yeah. For sure.

Craig:  Yeah. They’re there, and, of course, it’s just revelry. Another thing that I found really amusing about this movie was the dancing. There’s more than one time when people are dancing, and they’re just kinda, like, standing still and kinda bopping. Like, it’s so funny. And in in the bar scene, you see all these people dancing and there’s a band playing and it’s this very generic music that I’m sure that they used so that they didn’t have to pay any royalties for any actual music. But if you look, the band is clearly singing, and there’s no

Todd:  No. There are

Craig:  no vocals to the music at all.

Todd:  Oh, it’s funny. That is funny.

Craig:  The whole reason for the bar scene is, well, there’s some comic relief with Todd. Excuse me. The goofy one. Ted and Paul and Paul and Jenny. Jenny are sitting at the bar talking and they’re talking about Jason. And Jenny goes into this whole, like, serious monologue about, like, what if Jason is real?

Clip:  No. What if there is some kind of boy or beast running around campus Todd Lake? I mean, let’s try to think beyond the legend, put it in real terms. And what would it be like today? Some kind of out of control psychopath? A frightened retard? A child

Craig:  Todd empathy. Oh, he’s probably really sad. He probably sits in his cabin crying all day. It’s funny. I think as it turns out, she’s like a psychology student. Right? Or like a child psychology student or something like that?

Todd:  Figuring all this out, I guess, on her own. I mean, she practically says, I bet he’s sitting in his cabin right now with her severed head and some candles around it. Wouldn’t that be crazy?

Craig:  Yeah. Ultimately, that kind of plays out to how she wins in the end, which is, you know, kind of fun and clever, but, that whole bar scene is is just funny. In many ways, this movie just feels very cobbled together, like Rushed. Like you could you could cut everything except for the Jason killing people and, you know, that’s that’s the meat of the movie. And then everything else just kinda feels like, well, we still got 30 minutes.

Todd:  It and and and it feels so low budget too. Like, I’m watching this, and I’m, like, man, they didn’t spend any money on this movie at all. I think these people are wearing their same clothes that they probably wore to set, you know. Probably. Yeah. There’s nothing for props. There’s nothing for locations. It’s also bare bones.  The actually, this leads to what I thought was the creepiest, part of the film, and that was when Paul and Jenny come back. And the lights are on, but nobody’s home, and they’re wandering around trying to find, where they are, and they think maybe people playing a trick on them. And as they go upstairs, the lights go out. So then they come back downstairs, and Paul is by the window. I think he might be trying the phone or something, and Jenny is I think I

Craig:  think he’s messing with the fuses or something. I’m not sure. That’s it.

Todd:  Yeah. And Jenny comes down, and so this room is half in shadow. It’s like patches of shadow all around, and you know that there’s just gotta be something there. And the minute that you know there’s gotta be something there, Jenny says, Paul, there’s someone in this room, and that, like, for this movie that that actually sent a little bit of a chill up my spine.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. Me too. This bit was really effective and sure enough,

Todd:  you know, there is and and Jason jumps out and Todd wrestling with Paul on the ground. That was just really well done.

Craig:  I agree. It’s it’s such a simple line. There’s somebody else in this room. And she she repeats it twice, I think. And she’s like, there’s somebody in this room. And then then you see Jason standing there and he attacks Paul. And again, this is another reason why I appreciate this movie is that, you know, he attacks Paul and they fight.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Like a couple of guys. You know. Like, it’s it’s not some supernatural being that can just crush your head with his hands, you know. It’s they they they fight like a couple of dudes.

Todd:  Well, Jenny just stands there staring at them. Yeah. To make absolutely nothing. Yeah. Anyway, Jenny ends up trapped. Right?

Craig:  I thought that, this part was really good too and pretty suspenseful because she runs away, but she’s still kinda stuck in the house. Like, she just runs to the bathroom, like, right at, like, the next room over and she’s standing there holding the door, like, pulling it, like, she’s trying to keep somebody out, but then she sees that there’s a window. You see her struggle with the decision, like, what do I do? Do I let go of the door then he could get in or do I go for the window? Eventually, she decides to go for the window, but this is after kind of like, I don’t know, 10 second, 15 second kind of tense moment where she’s making the decision. And then she finally goes through the window and then there’s a great jump scare where Jason bursts. I mean, he doesn’t burst through the window. It’s a tiny bathroom window. But his arm comes through the window and tries to grab her, and then she runs away again. It’s stereotypical and that it’s, you know, it’s a a typical kind of girl in peril chase.

Todd:  Right.

Craig:  But it’s not stereotypical in that she’s actually pretty clever.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Like, at at one point, I don’t know, she gets in the kitchen, he finds her there, but eventually she gets outside and she takes off running, and she does the thing that I always want people in horror movies to do. Like, if you’re running away from somebody in the woods, like, run until you’re out of sight and then hide. Like and and that’s what she does. And she she hides, and he goes past her looking for her, and she’s able to double back. There’s also something at one point she gets in her car and he, like, gets on the roof and does the pitchfork through the car, and it it’s it’s it’s a a pretty long chase scene. And they’re at the camp, and then they’re in the car, and then they’re in the woods, and then they’re back at the camp.

Todd:  There’s even like a passage of time sequence where it’s like shot of her running, shot of the moon, shot of him running, shot of the moon. You’re thinking, jeez, how long how long is this going on?

Craig:  Well, and she and she gets after she tricks him in the woods, she goes back to a cabin. I don’t know whose cabin it is. She goes back to a cabin and she hides under the bed And, he comes to that cabin. I don’t know how he knew to go to that one, but whatever. And, she’s hiding under the bed and he doesn’t notice her there, but then a rat comes along the wall and, like, comes right up to her face. And she doesn’t scream or anything, but she pees herself. Yeah. And, he sees the pee trickle out,

Todd:  I guess, down her leg and out the back. It must have made a lot of noise. It’s you know what? I actually read online or saw, an interview or something where somebody had said that the filmmakers insisted that that was not her pee. It was the rat’s pee.

Craig:  What? That doesn’t make any sense. Doesn’t make

Todd:  any sense. The rat came and peed and and left

Craig:  came and peed more than its body weight. It’s so stupid. But, anyway, Jason sees her there. And so then he tricks her and makes her think that he left, but he didn’t. He really stood on a chair. And then she comes out and he tries to kill her with the pitchfork, but the chair breaks and he falls and the pitchfork breaks and she takes off running again and she runs through the woods and she ends up at this shack, which we hadn’t mentioned before. There was a whole scene with a cop who saw Jason running through the forest and chased him to this shack, and then ended up getting killed. Well, anyway, now Jenny ends up at the shack.  Jason is right on her heels and she ends up in this back room in his makeshift shack that has a toilet in it. Apparently, he has plumbing, and he’s got some plumbing, apparently. Makeshift shack in the woods. But she ends up in this room that we the cop had found, but we had only seen his facial expression, like, like, scary. I don’t know. It’s a shrine, and his mother’s head is on the shrine. And the bodies of most of the people that he’s killed throughout the movie and Alice’s body are kind of strewn around this shrine to his mom. And Jenny, being the child psychologist that she is, takes missus Voorhees’ sweater from that’s on the shrine from the first movie and puts it on and tries to arrange her hair to look like, missus Voorhees so that when Jason finally breaks through, she’s there.  And I have to say, this is one of my favorite scenes from the whole series.

Todd:  Mhmm.

Craig:  I just think it’s it’s clever and it’s Smart. Well executed and for a final girl, she’s smart. You know, she’s a smart final girl, all around really and she’s tough. I really like this scene.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s great. She’s just standing there, and she starts talking to him like she’s his mother. Jason.

Clip:  It’s all done, Jason. You’ve done your job well, and mommy is pleased. That’s a good pull. Now come to mommy. Come on.

Todd:  And it’s superimposing footage of Jason’s mother, Betsy Palmer. And, apparently, she came in and just, like, filmed these scenes in, like, 40 minutes in front of a black screen.

Craig:  And didn’t even remember that she had done it later. She’s like,

Todd:  I never should I never was in the second one. What are you talking about? Right. And and it it has an effect on Jason. And it’s cool because we can actually see Jason’s eye through one of the holes in the sack. And she essentially you see, it’s it’s almost like a tug, like, you you wonder if if it’s working or if it’s it’s it’s having an effect. Jason starts to approach, but then he stops. He starts to approach again. And then suddenly hear, Jenny, and Paul shows up for behind which which is a little disappointing.

Craig:  Yeah. You kinda you kinda wish that Jenny could have taken care of it on her own. But the stuff with Betsy Palmer and, you know, the way that they kinda superimpose her her face over and it’s not there’s a little bit of superimposing, but it’s really kind of cutting it’s just fading back and forth. But I I really liked it, and I really like Betsy Palmer as missus Voorhees.

Todd:  Yeah. She She was

Craig:  great in the first movie. She’s good here. This is a little off topic, but I know that they tried to get her for Freddy versus Jason to to reprice her role. And, she demanded too much money and so they ended up casting somebody else which was unfortunate. I think that she’s since passed away, but, she’s she’s good and it was nice to see her. But I also thought in this scene, and I don’t know if that’s what they were going for at all, but you can just there’s only one hole in Jason’s head sack.

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  And so you can only see one of his eyes, but it’s the non deformed one and I felt like this scene gave him a little bit of humanity.

Todd:  It really did.

Craig:  And and almost made you feel a little bit sorry for him. And, ultimately, you should. You know? Like Yes. This is a kid who was tormented throughout his life and then left to die or not die, whatever, who knows. The premise of this movie is that he saw his mother get killed. Now how that’s even possible. Right. Even possible is beyond me, but okay, whatever.  If all of that is true, it doesn’t excuse him killing a bunch of people but,

Todd:  you know, you But gosh darn it.

Craig:  Right. Show the guy a little empathy. He’s been through shit.

Todd:  He he really has.

Craig:  And you see and you see that a little bit. And just seeing his eye, which is just, you know, a man’s eye or a woman.

Todd:  I I was gonna say it even seems a little boyish. I mean, I I felt when I looked at that eye, I was seeing a kid. You know? It was, it was really well whether intended or not to go that far, it really it really hammered that point home, I felt like. And the acting, you know, from Jason, I guess.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, as as little as he has to do. And and I have no idea whose eye that was because there was one guy was credited with playing Jason, but actually several people were in the costume at

Todd:  It was not his eye. The guy who’s credited from playing Jason only comes in, like, one more one moment later, which pissed off the other dude who spent most of the time playing Jason in this show.

Craig:  Well, yeah. And at one point, it was a woman. It was the costume designer or somebody. Yeah. At the very beginning. When you see him.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But anyway, it gives him a little bit of humanity. And then when what what breaks the spell is that she inadvertently, I guess, kind of moves and he sees his mom’s severed head and that kind of breaks his spell. But you then you’re right. Then Paul comes in and they fight and it looks like Jason’s gonna kill Paul, but then Ginny gets Jason through the shoulder with a machete. And it appears that he’s dead. And so Paul and Jenny go back to camp and they’re in, one of the cabins and they hear a scary noise at the door. So they go, and and Jenny, you know, sets herself up with the pitchfork. So if somebody comes in, she’s ready.  And it’s it’s really kind of tense and good, but, Paul opens the door and it’s Muffins, the dog. And I was really glad because they had strongly implied earlier that Muffins had been killed and I was Yeah. Happy about that.

Todd:  That’s the one death that really bothered me. Yeah.

Craig:  It’s muffins and she’s fine.

Todd:  The guy in the wheelchair, who cares?

Craig:  Yeah. Screw him. Whatever. That’s what you get for riding motorcycles. Then the the very last, well, not the very last thing, but Jason unmasked because Jenny had taken off his sack in the cabin. Even though we hadn’t seen it, they saw it. She took off his sack. He jumps unmasked through the window and grabs her and drags her out.  And and it’s all in kinda, like, stop motion slow mo. It’s it’s odd, frankly.

Todd:  It goes on a little too long in slow motion.

Craig:  Yeah. And and you get to you see him in all his glory, which this is also interesting because they try to remain fairly consistent with his look. Now his look progresses over the course of the movies, but in this one, on one half of his head, he’s a long haired hillbilly looking type guy and on the other side, he is a deformed I I don’t know. Something bad. You know, he’s deformed. Sanctuary. Right. And, you you know, you you see him in full glory.  Like, they they make a point of showing you all of it. And she gets pulled away and it’s reminiscent of the first movie when Alice got dragged down by, creepy Jason at the end and the same exact things happens. It cuts away from that and it breaks into the next day and it’s daylight And Jenny is getting put into an ambulance, and she says, where’s Paul? Where’s Paul? And she gets no answer, and that’s it. That’s the end.

Todd:  That’s the end.

Craig:  So the ending is left a little bit ambiguous. Was that a dream? That last scene

Todd:  Where’s Paul?

Craig:  Was it real? Where’s Paul? From what I’ve read from what I’ve read, the filmmakers say, no. It wasn’t a dream that really happened, happened and, Paul likely was killed. Why she wasn’t? I have no idea. Yeah. And the actress, who played Jenny oh, gosh. What’s her name? Amy Steele. She really had hoped that because she survived the end of the movie that she would kind of come back and be the protagonist for the series and, of course, that didn’t happen. They went in a completely different direction, but part 3 really kind of sticks, you know, with the Jason as this backwoods figure, but still human.  And then I don’t remember. There’s there’s some point, it’s either in part 4 or at the very beginning of part 5 that he’s dead and he gets struck by lightning and reanimated. And from that point on, it’s just there are no rules. We can do whatever. He can be, you know, a zombie. He can be a demon. He can be what he can be in space,

Todd:  you know, whatever. He can be in the in Times Square for 5 minutes.

Craig:  Right. And what else are they gonna do? I mean, you have to take it in different directions. You can’t keep making the same movie over and over again. But funnily enough, fans of the franchise who want to see it continue and this franchise is one of those franchises that has just is just in hell. Like, it it it’s been owned by Paramount and, Warner Brothers. It’s it’s yeah. It’s switched hands back and forth and, you know, they made a remake. I saw the remake.  It was okay. I didn’t think it was very good. The the fans of the movies keep saying, take it back, you know, put them in camp with with kids, put it back in the eighties. Mhmm. You know, we want classic Jason again. If we’ll ever get that, I have absolutely no idea. But as much in development hell as this whole franchise has been in for the last 10 years at least, I very seriously doubt that we’ve seen the last of Jason Voorhees.

Todd:  Oh, for sure. As long as there’s money to be made, somebody can put on a hockey mask and be Jason. That’s it. And and we haven’t looked at hockey the same way again. Right. One thing that you neglected to mention was the very last shot of the film, which is a slow motion

Craig:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Zoom in on well, dolly in on Jason’s mom’s head in the in the middle of the table, and I had actually forgotten about this last shot. And this it was dollying in. I was like, oh, please Todd, no. I was just waiting for those eyes to open or for her to wink at the camera or something like that. Uh-huh. And thankfully, it freezes, but it just freezes there, and it’s just weird. It’s an odd shot because you’re not really sure what its purpose is at the end of the day. Is it to show that Jason’s still alive because the candles are still burning, or she’s still there, so not forgotten? Is it, you know, is it to introduce some voodoo element later or whatever? It just it just doesn’t seem to you don’t really know.  And apparently, when they originally shot it, they did indeed have her, like, eyes opening up and winking at the camera. Yep. But, of course, it looks stupid, and so they cut that. But why they even kept the shot in them at all is a little strange, unless they just spent so much money on it, and they need another, you know, 20 seconds.

Craig:  I I don’t know. I I wish they would’ve kept it. I think that would’ve made it as campy, pardon the pun, as it, it should have been. I I just think that would have been really funny, but, you know, it’s it’s fine. It is what it is. Yeah. I don’t know.

Todd:  You know, when I was growing up in the eighties, my my impressions of Jason were already in the 3 and the fours, you know. It’s this big brute Yeah. That’s supernatural who

Craig:  And always the hockey mask. I mean, that’s iconic.

Todd:  But this is this is a this is a pretty well made film even though it doesn’t really stand the test of time. Like you said earlier, I think I think if we had seen this back when it had come out, we would have been thoroughly satisfied. Now you look at it, and it’s just like any other movie that kinda sets the standards for the rest of them. It it it looks pretty hokey, you know, when you go back and look at it now. Even judged on its own merits, there’s not a lot going on. Like we said, most of the movie is corny jokes and silliness and, dumb dialogue and characters who really you just really can’t get very close to. And then Jason hacks them all away in the last 10 minutes or so, 15 minutes or so. But I I I really like the bit about the cabin, You know, the you mentioned earlier that the cop had found the cabin.  I like this idea that maybe the police for the last, you know, 9 years or whatever have just been patrolling the lake just looking for people who might I mean, they found that one couple who were poking around trying to get back to Camp Crystal Lake, like, right away. Mhmm. But he doesn’t know, but, apparently, this cabin has gone unnoticed in the woods for all these years. Yeah. But the one thing, every time somebody comes up to this cabin, just like a puddle. There’s a Yeah. There’s a puddle in the ground that’s maybe about, I don’t know, 4 feet wide that they step in, or they they fall in, or they trip in. Like like, it’s it’s how we as the viewer know, oh, no.  They’re coming close to the cabin. Yeah. And I’m thinking this puddle’s supernatural. Like, it it has some kind of, like, black hole type force that no matter where you’re which direction you’re walking towards that cabin in the woods, you’re gonna have to step in it on the way there and the way back. I wanna see a movie about that puddle. I really do. There’s something in there, man. There’s something in there.

Craig:  Alright. I’ll get right on that.

Todd:  Well, thanks again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook where we have a website where you can let us know what you thought of this episode. Let us know other things you’d like us to review. We’re still gonna finish out February with 1 or 2 more of these number 2 films, so stay tuned for that as well. And, every Thursday, we do have a horror movie review in text form posted on our website at 2 guys dot redfortynet.com. Until next time, I’m Todd And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

If you have any desire to see this movie, don’t listen to our podcast before you do. That’s all we’d better say about that. If it helps you make a decision, neither of us are big fans.

Episode 113, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig

Todd:  Today’s film is High Tension from 2003, a French film otherwise known as Haute Tension. Or something like that. I don’t know how you pronounce it. I didn’t take French. I took Spanish. So

Craig:  Well, I’m glad you gave it a try.

Todd:  I had Todd give it the old college try. Right? Right. Yeah. My wife, she took French in college. She couldn’t figure out how to pronounce it either, so she’s giving me a dirty look right now, so I’m probably gonna edit this part out. It’s been at least 10 years since I’ve seen this movie. What what made you wanna watch it now?

Craig:  Well, because I don’t think that alright. My my thought for picking it was I’ve never seen this and I see it referenced online all the time. People are all the time time referencing this movie. And so I thought, you know, I need to get with the times and see what this movie’s all about. As it turns out, I think I have seen it before.

Todd:  Oh, yeah. Because I’d be surprised.

Craig:  Yeah. There’s this is first of all, this is a movie that relies on a big twist ending. So if you haven’t seen the movie and you don’t or if and you do plan to, you may wanna not listen to this, until after you’ve seen it because, I went into it and it was just only vaguely familiar, but I felt like I knew something that I wasn’t supposed to know in the beginning. And as it turned out, I was right. But really, I didn’t remember it well at all. So it was it has to have been 15 years or more since I’ve seen it. I guess it couldn’t have been more. It just came out 15 years ago.  But, anyway, that’s why I picked it, and here we

Todd:  are. Your spidey sense was tingling. Yep. Yeah. So this movie, okay. Again, we’re just gonna we’re gonna be spoiling it straight from the get go, I think, because that’s really once you know the twist of the movie, the movie takes on a whole different shape. And I think, actually, that’s problematic because I didn’t really enjoy it as much the second time around. I found it really almost pointless to watch the second time around.  Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, so much of this twist, and I think a lot of what it gets criticism for online is the twist is rather improbable. Yeah. It’s improbable because of the way it’s presented. I mean, if this is if this is the end result. Alright. So, okay. Let’s just let’s just talk about the plot real quick.

Craig:  Okay.

Todd:  So it starts out with a woman who’s like sitting in a in a white room. It looks like it’s a hospital room or something like that. We don’t see her face, but we just see scars and things on her back. It looks like she’s been through some trauma.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  This is intercut with some, it seems like, some scenes of her being chased through the woods. And, she is saying over and over again, I will not let anything come between us anymore. I will not let anything come between us anymore. So then after all of this bit where she’s being chased through the woods, she kind of wakes up, and she’s in the back seat of a of a car traveling down the road with a friend. This woman’s name is Marie, and her friend’s name is Alex. And they’re college age, I guess, kids, on their way to Alex’s home. They’re in the south of France, and they’re going to they’re they’re roommates. I guess they study together, and they’re going for what appears to be a study break at, Alex’s childhood home

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  In out in the middle of, you know, the French countryside, basically. So she describes this dream to her and she says, yeah, the dream was really crazy because, oh, she well, this this, you know, Alex says, well, who’s who’s chasing you? And she says, well, what was funny about is I was chasing myself.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And that that’s, I mean, if you you know what’s coming, then that really gives it away. Right. But so, yeah. So anyway, they have some conversation that, again, in retrospect, also is somewhat revealing. And, they’re basic and I mean, I can’t put the clips in because it’s in French. Right. What they’re basically conversing about with each other is a little bit about Alex’s boyfriend troubles. She’s trying to see this guy, but she’s not quite sure if he’s serious.  And Marie seems, I don’t know, a little distant, maybe even a little troubled by this when she’s talking with her.

Craig:  Right. And and so they go to Alex’s house, and it’s this, you know, nice big restored farmhouse, and they meet her family, and it’s a dad and a mom and a little brother and a dog. It’s all very rustic and sweet, and the family’s really nice. And then, well, then we just cut to this random scene of this big scary truck. It’s not quite it’s not quite as old and scary as the Jeepers Creepers truck, truck, but that’s what it reminded me of. Kind of this big industrial type truck. And, we pan in towards it. And it sounds and looks like the guy sitting in the driver’s seat is getting a blow job, but, then the the guy in the seat throws a severed head out the window.  So it appears that he had just been pleasuring himself with this severed head. And then we cut back to the family house.

Todd:  Right? Like It’s cool. These are just the this is just the kind of things that we laugh about. You know? I guess when you watch horror movies, you just say phrases like this all the time. I know. Oh, so anyway, he was pleasuring himself with a severed hand.

Craig:  Yeah. Right.

Todd:  Moving on to the farmhouse. Right. Well, but

Craig:  I mean, that’s just kind of how it’s presented Todd. Like, we just we know nothing about what’s going on. We have no idea who this guy is. You know, we have no idea how he fits into this puzzle in any way. We just see this quick scene and we guess, okay. I guess there’s a crazy killer out there. And so they go back to the house and everything’s very normal. And, like, Alex shows Marie her room and, then everybody goes to bed and then Marie masturbates for a little bit.  And then there’s a knock on the door and it just becomes a kind of home invasion slash slasher movie. This big, burly, scary looking guy who we see from the very beginning. There’s no kind of trying to shroud who he is or anything. You know, we see his face, and, you know, I don’t know. He looks rough. He looks like a big guy. I wouldn’t wanna run into him in a dark alleyway. But he just immediately starts killing everybody.  Like, as soon as the dad opens the door, the guy reaches in with a razor blade and slices him across the face. And then, he beats him around a little bit and somehow like gets his head in between, 2 of the stair Craig posts. And he uses this great big huge dresser. He slides it, and and takes the dad’s head off.

Todd:  It’s really brutal.

Craig:  It is. And the whole movie is super violent. You know, this was directed by Alexander ‘Aha. Was this his first movie?

Todd:  Wasn’t his first movie, but it was his first big one. Gotcha. Might have been his first big budget film, but he did, like, 2 or 3 others before this.

Craig:  Gotcha. Well, what I know about him, which is not a whole lot, is just that he is kinda big into this really big, gruesome, gore, you know, stuff, which is all well and good. The other movie that, I always associate with him because he directed it was the remake of The Hills Have Eyes, which is one of the most brutal, gross, horrible, violent movies I’ve ever seen in my life. In fact, that I thought it was really well made, but I made the mistake. I’m, like, oh, it’s really well made. It’s a really well made movie, so I’ll show my partner, and he’ll appreciate it because it was well made. And not only did he freaking hate it, but he was legitimately mad at me for days. Like Yeah.

Todd:  I mean, it’s one of the it was one of those movies that I was kind of sad that I watched, to be honest. Like, I’ve seen the original, and the original’s fine. You know? It’s violent too, but not like this. This is, you know, they get sexually violent and gross and and yeah. It’s

Craig:  Yeah. It’s it’s it’s really, really bad. Don’t show it to your partner if they are not into horror movies. They will not appreciate it regardless of how well made you think it is.

Todd:  Look at the pattern of the blood spray. It’s awesome effect. Yeah. You can really see, like, without anyway.

Craig:  So anyway so, you know, I know him from that. And and, so he he’s he markets on major violence and gore, which is fine. I don’t have any problem with that. And this movie is super violent. You know, the this guy, he goes around. The first thing he does is he kinda it’s like he kinda scopes out the house to see who’s there. And he ends up tying up Alex to her bed. And, Marie is really smart actually in this part and knows that the killer is looking around to see who’s there.  So she really quick makes up her bed and goes in and tries to get rid of any evidence in the bathroom of the fact that she’s there. And when he comes in, she hides and though he almost finds her, he doesn’t and so he doesn’t even know that she’s there. So then he kills the mom. He, like, slits her throat and blood splatters everywhere. And, the little boy he’s already killed the dog. The dog was the second thing he killed. And then the little boy goes running out side and runs out into the field, but we see the big guy follow him with this great big huge shotgun, and he shoots the little kid. Marie comes back in, and she goes into Alex’s room, and she’s like, I’m gonna help you.  I’m gonna get you out of this. She tries to untie her, but she can’t. And, eventually, the big guy comes back, and he takes Alex out to his truck and is gonna go off with her, I guess. Somehow Marie sneaks into the back of the truck with her, so they’re both there. And then it becomes just kinda like a little road movie for a little while.

Todd:  Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Marie’s in the back of the truck. It’s it’s it’s an interesting scene because, it looks like Marie, she has a I’m sorry. Marie has a knife, And it looks like, she’s poised, ready that when this guy comes around to the side of the van, to close the door, she’s gonna stab him. But instead, he just immediately slides the door shut and locks it before she can.  And so she’s stuck in the back of this truck as he drives to a convenience store, gas station. And while he’s pumping gas, Marie slips out of the truck. And I think the first note that I make in on my paper is how did she get out of the truck.

Craig:  Without him noticing. Right.

Todd:  Yeah. It just and it’s an interesting scene because it’s a close-up on him, putting the gas pump inside, and then it the camera slides down to the ground level and slides across underneath the truck, and you just see these legs drop out like she came out the back. Mhmm. And then she, you know, walks across and, while the guy is pumping gas, there’s kind of this tense scene where the gas pump is slowly clicking towards, you know, full. Mhmm. And she is sneaking her way towards the she’s, you know, for his view of hers blocked by the truck because it’s

Craig:  so huge

Todd:  and doesn’t have windows. And finally, when it clicks, she runs and takes off into this convenience store. And there’s a clerk in there, and he’s a nice guy. And she runs around and hides in the aisles. And I don’t think he sees her initially. Maybe he’s in the back and he comes out.

Craig:  No. No. No. He did because she runs in and he’s standing behind the counter and she says, call the police. And he’s like, what’s going?

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  And he’s like what’s going on? But she doesn’t have time to tell. She just runs around, and and she’s hiding and this big guy comes in. And here was the big, you know, kind of first surprise for me was the, the big scary guy walks in and is like, hey, Jimmy. How’s it going? So he knows like like, he frequents this gas station. So apparently, he’s from around here and Jimmy knows who he is, but he also Jimmy also knows that this girl is hiding. He doesn’t know why. And so the big guy goes around, like, I don’t know, shopping, getting some stuff or whatever. And, he’s talking, to Jimmy at the counter, and Jimmy notices that there’s blood on the big guy’s hands and becomes kind of visibly nervous.  And he actually starts to reach for a gun under the counter, but the big guy grabs his hand and says, I’d really like a bottle of whiskey or something like that. So Jimmy has to take keys and go to where the liquor is locked up because it’s, I guess, too late to be selling liquor but he’s gonna sell it to this guy anyway. And as he’s standing there at the liquor cabinet unlocking it, he really furtively kind of looks over to his left and sees, Marie crouched down and he kind of gives her a wink or a little nod or something like, it’s gonna be okay. I’m I’m going to help you. And then immediately, the big guy comes up behind him and kills him with an axe in the back. Yeah. And he’s dead.

Todd:  Yeah. Sorry, Jimmy. Poor Jimmy is very dead because, like, not only does he axe him in the back, the the Jimmy’s on the floor face down with his axe on his back. The guy, like, kicks him over onto his back and then just, like, steps on him to, like, push and grind the axe further into him. It’s it’s just really, oh, I mean, it’s really gross. It’s really brutal. But this is a really high tense scene, and I think the movie earns its title, you know? Sure. It really does.  Like, this this guy is really painted as ruthless and relentless, and and it’s like nothing gets by him, you know? And when he just openly just kills this gas station attendant, you realize it doesn’t matter. You know? I mean, they’re in a public place. Somebody else could walk in. You know, this guy just just acts as this dude.

Craig:  Right. And he’s gotta he’s gotta be crazy. Like, if if he knows this kid, I would assume that means that he’s either from this area or, you at least goes through here on a regular basis. So he’s kinda throwing caution to the wind. I I guess if you’re a psycho, you don’t really concern yourself with those things. But, it’s it’s surprising it’s surprising in its violence. I didn’t see it coming. Well, Marie somehow sneaks down to the bathroom and, is hiding in the bathroom.  And it’s kind of a long drawn out scene where the big guy kinda goes through every stall in the women’s room. There’s nobody in there, but he’s, like, talking to himself, like, who were you looking at, Jimmy? Or what were you looking at? And as it turns out, she’s really hiding in the men’s room, and he comes in there and he doesn’t look around as much, which, again, why? Like, he was so thorough in the women’s bathroom and then he doesn’t really look around in the men’s bathroom at all. He just takes a piss and then he leaves. And Marie takes a moment once he’s gone to, like, wash up. I’m

Todd:  like Yeah.

Craig:  Like, what is happening? And It’s like ridiculous. Yeah. As she’s watching up, she hears the truck start up and she runs back upstairs and the truck is pulling away. So she calls the cops and is like, I was at my friend’s house and the psycho showed up and he killed her whole family and, now I’m at a gas station and he took my friend and I’m worried about him. And the cops are like, okay. You know, they seem to be taking her seriously. They’re like, you know, we’ll we’ll help you, but you have to tell us where you are. And of course, she’s not from here, so she doesn’t really know where she is.  And she can’t give them the address of the family’s home, and she doesn’t know what gas station she’s at or where it’s at. So she kinda gets frustrated with them and and hangs up, and then she takes the gun from under the counter and finds Jimmy’s keys, I guess, and he drives like a Trans Am or some cool car like that. And she goes she goes she goes taking off after them. And, eventually, she catches up with them, and she follows them from a distance for a while, until the big truck turns off on kind of an off road like a dirt road and she drives past it, I guess so that he won’t immediately suspect that she’s following him. And she waits a little while and then she turns her lights off and she backs up and she starts following him down that road. And she’s following him for a while, but then she loses him somehow. Like, she’s kind of drifting off or something and he goes around the corner, and when she comes around the corner, he’s not there anymore. As it turns out, he was on to her.  He must pulled off the side of the road because now he’s behind her and he’s chasing her, and, he’s like ramming her with the truck until eventually he rams her off the road and the car flips over and, she crawls out and she’s all bloody and she’s injured. But luckily out there in the middle of nowhere, there appears to be like an abandoned greenhouse?

Todd:  Yeah. It’s not like a glass glass covered greenhouse. It’s like somebody somebody’s plants. I think it’s like, you know, farmers when the wintertime comes, they start to certain plants that are still growing or whatever, they start to put these canopies of mostly translucent plastic over them.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  And it’s like this, except it’s overgrown and the plastic’s all ripped up and whatnot, but she can still kinda walk through here and, and creep around. And and she creeps around a bit, but then, of course, the guy comes around with his flashlight. And, so she sees that, she tries to hide. And as she’s sneaking around, it looks like she’s going to try to stab him or shoot him.

Craig:  Well, no. She’s she’s not gonna try to shoot him because she had the gun.

Todd:  Lose the gun? Oh, but yeah. She has the bullets.

Craig:  Yeah. He had taken out the bullets and, like, he taunts her. Like, he holds them out the car window and drops them. So the gun’s useless. So instead

Todd:  Like like she would see that.

Craig:  You know, you’re both kinda fucked. Right. So, instead she makes a mace. She, she gets, like, a a a broken off table leg and some barbed wire, and she wraps the barbed wire all around the leg, and she’s armed with that.

Todd:  She’s gonna go all Negan on this guy. Right. From, yeah, Walking Dead. Have you ever seen that?

Craig:  No. But I know the reference.

Todd:  Okay. Yeah. It’s pretty brutal. You’re kinda and when you’re watching this movie, you’re like, yeah. This is like this is the weapon.

Craig:  This is

Todd:  what you should’ve had from the beginning. A table leg wrapped in barbed wire.

Craig:  Yeah. And I mean, you appreciate the fact that she’s tough, you know, like and and she’s resolute. She wants to save her friend, you know. She could have just stayed and wait waited for the cops or whatever, but she’s taking matters into her own hands. Mhmm. But so she sees his flashlight kind of looking around and so like she’s kinda I guess trying to sneak up on him, But she realizes when she gets close enough that he’s tricked her again and he’s just hung the flashlight, like, by his belt or something from the ceiling. And so it it’s just kind of naturally swaying around and that was what was causing the movement. And then he attacks her from behind, and I think that he puts he he takes some of that plastic that we’ve seen, and he wraps it around her face.  And she struggles and struggles, but eventually she succumbs and she’s out of breath. She doesn’t pass out entirely, but she falls to the ground. And he gets down on the ground with her and he’s kind of, I don’t know, he’s kinda being gross and with his razor blade, like he’s running it up and down her abdomen and, like, he kinda sticks it down her skirt a little bit. And he’s saying things like, why do you care so much about Alex? She turns you on, doesn’t she? Well, she turns me on too. And he’s being all gross and he’s, like, got his her finger or excuse me, his fingers and her mouth, and she’s Craig. But we also see that she’s feeling around for something and she comes up with a rock and she hits him in the head with the rock hard, and he’s stunned and he starts bleeding from his head and she gets him knocked over and, I think that then she uses the plastic on him and it seem it seems like he’s dead, but she lifts it up to kinda check and, like, I feel like she listens to see if he’s breathing or she listens for a heartbeat or something. And she seems satisfied that he’s dead, but then all of a sudden he reaches up and grabs her by the throat. And so she puts the plastic back over his face again until he, I guess, passes out again.  And then she takes the mace and just goes to town on his face, like, just obliterates his face, with this mace. And you’re thinking, hooray, You know? The the day is saved. And, she runs to the truck and and she’s she flings it open and she jumps in and she’s like, it’s it’s everything’s okay. You know? I’m I’m gonna take care of you and and it’s gonna be fine. But here’s where the big twist comes in because Alex is not happy to see her.

Todd:  That’s right. She takes this gag that’s that’s been around Alex’s mouth the whole time. And she says, what are you doing? Alex, by the way, has sec secured that knife that that she had that they had in the In the truck. Van earlier. In the truck earlier. And so once she’s free, she she brandishes the knife in front of her, and the and Marie’s like, what? What are you talking about? What are you talking about? I’m, it’s, he’s fine, it’s, he’s gone, it’s just you and me, it’s just you and me now. And she’s like, you killed my family, you killed my whole family. How could you do this, and I’m gonna kill you.  And then we get these flashbacks to all of several of the scenes that we’ve seen previously, except instead of this big burly man, it’s her. And that all starts off with the police, coming. We actually see the cop cars drive up to the convenience store, and they go inside and they see the the carnage. And one of the cops goes to the camera

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And he starts playing back the footage. Now, we had seen and this is, I don’t know. This is kind of a problem with the movie too. We had earlier actually seen, the movie made a bit of a deal out of showing us the mean, burly guy on the surveillance camera.

Craig:  Uh-huh.

Todd:  And it had panned back to him in the shop as he walked out. But here, in the same scene, we see that this girl has, you know, Marie has actually axed this guy, and she’s the one who walked out. And so they know to look for her instead. And that’s how it’s more or less revealed to us. And then it kinda flashes back through all these scenes, and it and it shows you, oh, Marie is actually the one who murdered, the mother. Maybe Alex was actually in the closet watching. Maybe she was the one actually watching.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  I’m not quite sure there. I think that was implied, but it it it all kind of cuts around rather quick. Mhmm. And, yeah. And so Marie is disturbed, and it appears that Marie has this, love for Alex, and, maybe is having a hard time wrestling with it, or coming to terms with it, or something like that, or she’s just psycho and wants her all for herself, and all the talk of the boyfriend and whatnot kind of gets her going. And so she’s gone on this murderous rampage.

Craig:  Well, yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay. So she goes on that’s alright. I’m gonna finish this out real quick, and then I’m gonna talk about the many questions and problems that I have with this. We’re we’re hitting a record here. I mean, I there’s really not much to it. And, like, usually I take pages of notes.  Like, I usually have at least 2 full pages of notes and I’ve got, like, half a page here. I knew that we would get through it really quickly. But anyway, Marie is trying to reassure Alex and it’s like she’s confused. Like, she’s like, what are you talking about? I don’t even know what you’re talking about. And so, Alex stabs Marie in the abdomen and and then Alex takes off running. All of a sudden, Marie turns back into the big burly guy. It’s like they you know, there’s a a flip or something, and all of a sudden, she’s that actor actor again. And, of course, he’s all bloodied and and disgusting.  And, he goes to the back of his truck and pulls out a cement saw of all things, like, this huge, and pulls out a cement saw of all things, like this huge this huge circular cement saw. And he’s chasing her through the woods, and he’s saying, I’m gonna take care of you, Alex. And I feel like, you know, that’s meant to have dual meaning. You know, like, I don’t know.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But what we realize is that her dream in the beginning was it it it this is it. You know, this is it happening. You know, she’s the one who’s in pursuit, and Alex is the one who’s running away. And it’s very Texas Chainsaw Massacre in this moment. I mean, the the guy even looks like Leatherface, and he’s brand this huge saw and they’re running through the forest. And it even, you know, plays out the same way. She gets to the highway, Alex gets to the highway, and there’s a car running by and she runs out in front and it swerves and kinda goes in the ditch and she runs and jumps in the back and she’s like, come on. Let’s go.  Let’s go. Let’s go. And but of course, he can’t get the car started. So, the big scary guy shows up with his huge saw and, jumps up on the hood and puts it through the windshield and totally just eviscerates the driver. And the whole inside of the car is just, you know, it’s like a geyser of blood and Alex is covered in blood. But eventually, she gets out and, Marie eventually notices that she’s out. She’s kind of pulling herself down the highway because I guess she stepped in a big piece of glass or something, so she’s incapacitated. But we also see that she’s either found in the car or found in the street a crowbar, and she’s kind of dragging that along with her, but she’s kind of keeping it hidden underneath her arm.  So then, Marie ends up, you know, standing over her and she’s like, so you wanna drive me crazy, you bitch? And then she’s like, do you love me? Do you love me? And she’s, like, demanding, do you love me? And finally, Alex says, yeah. And Marie puts down the saw and leans in and starts, like, trying to make out with her. And, like, they’re they’re both they’re both covered in blood in the middle of the street. And then, Alex takes the crowbar and impales Marie with it. And and we cut to the end which is, you know, our end cap. We go back to the hospital. We realize that the person in the hospital is Marie and she’s just sitting there chanting nothing is going to come between us ever again, nobody will ever come between us again, Alex. And it pulls back from the shot and we see that Alex is watching her through a, one way mirror.  And she turns to somebody and says, you’re sure she can’t see me. Right? At which point, Marie turns towards the mirror and smiles and reaches out as though she knows she’s there. And that’s the end.

Todd:  That was the creepiest part. Actually, that that that part freaked me out.

Craig:  Well, the look on her face is really creepy.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s super creepy, and it it’s almost kind of implied she has supernatural powers, but not really. I mean, it’s just kind of like one of those things. Yeah. This once you once the end comes, you’re kinda like, because each the movie’s just full of plot holes.

Craig:  Exactly. So many plot holes. Like, that’s the thing. Like, I can appreciate the concept and I think that watching it the first time, I didn’t see the twist coming. And so when it came, I was so taken aback. I was like, oh, that’s cool. I would have never thought that. And so then I wasn’t as critical about it.  Knowing what the twist was and watching it again, I’m like, what? Yeah. This doesn’t even make any sense.

Todd:  The thing is, you know, it’s presented so you will never figure this out, because it the movie makes no sense that way. So I think what you’re supposed to accept is that pretty much everything you’ve seen play out was happening in Marie’s head. That’s the closest you can come to forgiving the film. But then you have to accept that everything that you saw was just a lie, not a clever lie. You know, when these kind of twists happen, then you’re supposed to be able to go back and see hints at it, you know? Right. The filmmaker usually drops in these hints, or he films it in such a way that it could be ambiguous once you know the twist. I’m trying to say that, for example, the film makes it very clear that on the video camera, which is supposed to be, you know, a neutral observer Right. We just take it in film that a camera is a neutral observer.  And so in any other film where there’s some dual personality, you might see whatever we’re supposed to be seeing in somebody’s head playing out on screen, but then when the screen pans over to a video camera of the same thing, you know, film language just tells us that that’s supposed to show us what’s real. You know? Right. And that would be a way of revealing a twist. Oh, but but in the camera, it’s actually her, you know? Yet this movie completely flaunts those kinds of things. So it shows us in the video camera that it’s the man, and only later, you know, when the police watch it, oh, suddenly it’s her. And then it it just the the way that things play out, they could never have played out that way. Right. Because Alex is in a completely different location half the time as this killer is.  Right. So so what’s going on? Like, is she doing these murders and then going back around and, like like, playing out some fantasy as herself?

Craig:  I don’t know. It just doesn’t make sense. I mean, even from just the general concept, like, concept, like, why? Why is this happening? Like

Todd:  Yeah. Why is she doing it in

Craig:  the first place? This girl, I mean, we’re not given we’re not giving any given any history that would suggest that she’s unstable. You know, sometimes in movies like this, you know, they’ll talk about, oh, yeah. I went through something traumatic in my past and blah blah. And then there’s, you know, some sort of at least even if it’s loose, some sort of loose motivation for why they’re doing what they’re doing. But it just seems like she’s friends with this girl. Okay. So she has a girl crush on her roommate. Big deal.  Like Yeah. That so you’re gonna and then what’s the end game? Like Yeah. Are you trying to set yourself up to be the hero? Like, you rescued her, so now she’s gonna be in love with you even though oh gosh. Even though you’re the one that killed everybody? Like, I don’t know.

Todd:  Well, it’s like that kind of I think it’s kind of like that fantasy. I mean, it’s supposed to be anyway. It doesn’t make sense as it, but it’s supposed to be that kind of fantasy where, yeah, you set up this this situation where the person you love is in peril. You know, they they don’t they don’t they can’t see what what you see in them, but you’re gonna set up the situation that they’re in peril. And then through this traumatic incident where you come in and save them that you’ve set up, then now they suddenly, like, love you. But you don’t do it by murdering their whole family, you know? It’s it. And what is it that triggers it? And and I I mean, the movie’s called High Tension, and I think we’re supposed to mean that’s supposed to have a dual meaning and it’s supposed to have some I think sexual tension is involved here. Because from the get go, there’s that weird head masturbation scene at the beginning.

Craig:  Right. And as I was watching that, I and they they threw the head out. I was like, Todd. That head looks just like Alex. Well, apparently, it was. Like, that was the intention. So was Marie having weird decapitated head sex fantasies about Fantasies.

Todd:  Yeah. And and And as a man Go ahead. As a man, I mean, I I is this is this trying to make some kind of statement about her sexuality that her bad side is a man, that she has to kill before she can come to terms with it, you know? I don’t know. With her lesbianism or whatever. I mean, it’s just it’s problematic if you go that that far. And and the whole scene with the the decapitated head introducing it, so is that the point at which that happens before they even get to the house. Right? Either then or right after. And so we don’t really see any change in Marie.  Like, this is supposed to be like like, the guy is coming. You know, like, this side of her has arrived. Right. There’s nothing on the other side of it that we’ve walked that we’re watching that would give any indication of this. Like you said, she seems perfectly normal. Now the point at which she sits, lays down and masturbates is and they make a big deal out of that is intercut with the guy driving down the road and arriving at the house. True. And, you know, the man is murdered as she kind of comes to climax, So maybe he’s trying to say something here, like it’s her sexual tension that becomes unleashed in a violent way.

Craig:  I guess. You know, I I guess that, your theory that this was kind of all, you know, just a delusion in her mind I mean, I guess are we supposed to believe that she has, like, dissociative personality disorder? Like, is this a multiple multiple personality kind of thing? I guess, you know, there are concrete events that are taking place, but her mind is constructing the narrative the way that it wants to. I I I is the only way that I can wrap my head around it. And, like, the whole scene in the gas station where Jimmy was familiar with the killer. Like, was that all just a delusion or like I almost got the I almost got the suggestion, like, so maybe he knows her, but that wouldn’t make any sense because she’s not from around there. Yeah. So gosh, I just don’t know. It’s it’s it’s a frustrating movie.  And it’s funny as we sit here talking about it, I feel like somewhere out there, there are huge fans of this movie who, if they heard us talking about this would have all kinds of explanations that that we’re that we’re not coming to.

Todd:  Well, it the problem is you feel cheated as a viewer, I think, because it’s almost back to that whole, it was all a dream kind of trope. Yeah. And nobody really likes that unless it’s done in a very clever way. And this movie doesn’t offer those clever aspects of it to let you go back and piece the puzzle together like you should have all along. You know? Mhmm. It’s just not that at all. It is truly this, at best, it’s truly it was all a dream. And everything that we saw, quite honestly was rather pointless, you know.

Craig:  Right. And I I agree with you that it kinda makes you feel cheated because part of the satisfaction in watching a movie like this where there’s a twist at the end you know, this movie does it a little bit where we get little bits of flashback to kind of see her perpetrating the violence or whatever. But and and movies like any number of the Saw movies, you know, usually there’s some sort of twist at the end, and then it goes back and fills in the puzzle pieces for you. And and putting those puzzle pieces together is part of the fun. And when the puzzle pieces don’t fit, it just kinda it detracts from that fun for me.

Todd:  And the movie also asks us to accept, even as a fever dream, it okay. But the reality is that this woman murdered this girl’s family in their home, bound up Alex, took her away. Right? That is the reality. But there are a couple other problems with that too. Okay? So where did this giant truck come from? Yeah. Did she like, where in the hell did this truck come from? Because it’s kind of undeniable there’s a giant truck because she’s hauling Alex around in it. Mhmm. And how did she get into Alex’s room, bind her up in chains and a gag without making any sound that the other family would hear so that she can systematically go around and make a huge noise slaughtering the dad downstairs, and then come upstairs to the mother and make a huge deal slaughtering her.  That was a pretty big leap as it was playing out, honestly. Yeah. But then, you know, once you add the the Alex part into it, it’s even a bigger leap. And then where did what about this other car? Right? Was that all a dream too that she was pursuing herself in a in this guy’s car?

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  So then if that’s the case, how did they end up in the woods? Did she just park there, I guess, and start wandering around? Mhmm. Yeah. It’s yeah. I actually read a review because I always try to do this because Roger Ebert was alive when this movie came out. And believe it or not, he reviewed it. He hated it. Right? He did. And he said, this movie has plot hole big enough for you to drive a truck through.  And in fact, they do in fact drive a truck through it.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, it got mixed reviews. It got some positive reviews, but, Ebert wasn’t the only one who didn’t like it. People some, you know, horror fans immediately noticed major similarities between this and one of Dean Koontz’s novels, Intensity. I’ve read a lot of Dean Koontz, but I haven’t read Intensity, so I I can’t make the connection. But apparently, their plots and the twist are strikingly similar, and admitted that he had read the book, was familiar with it, was familiar with the plot, and, never really said, oh, yes. I directly plagiarized this, but really kind of didn’t deny it either. But Dean Koontz refused to sue because he didn’t want Todd he didn’t want his name associated with the movie at all.  He thought that it was awful and vile and crass and and disgusting.

Todd:  Morally bankrupt, he said. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. Morally bankrupt. And he didn’t wanna have anything to do with it. He didn’t even, you know, if it was plagiarized, he didn’t care. He didn’t want his name attached to it in any way. So, it’s definitely had its critics, but I swear to Todd, I read online all the time when people are talking about, you know, great horror movies. This one comes up all the time.

Todd:  When I first watched it, it was a great I mean, I remember being on the edge of my seat through this movie. And I do also remember and this was 2003, so we’re we’re kind of getting into the Saw area era here. So the kind of just unbelievable brutality that you see in this movie was still fresh and new. Right. You know, we weren’t really seeing this level, of violence yet, unabashedly. And so it did have a certain thrill in that way. So I do remember, again, my first time through this movie, even after the twist, thinking, okay. Well, you know, it didn’t make a lot of sense, but it was it was that was a fun ride.  But on repeat viewings, it’s it just it’s kind of annoying. Yeah. Upon a repeat viewing, it does seem a little more senseless, you know. And maybe even through that lens, it also seems even more exploitative. We just wanted an excuse to show you a ton of violence, and then we we don’t even have the courage to be able to come up with a good reason for it, you know? Yeah. Well, I think justification.

Craig:  Yeah. And I think you’re right. I think that it hasn’t aged particularly well just because I think that we’re not as sensitive to the kind of brutality and violence that you that was here. Like you said, in 2003, it was kind of fresh and new. By today’s standards, it’s kind of, you know, whatever. We’ve seen we see that all the time. You know, we see that kind of blood gushing and extreme brutality. We see that in horror all the time anymore.  So, it doesn’t seem particularly innovative anymore. One I I guess, you know, kind of the last interesting thing that I read about it was that initially the plan was to have the only revelation of, the the twist was going to be somehow at the very, very end, Marie was going to end up, like, in a interrogation room. And the cops were going to wheel in a video camera, and they were gonna show her the surveillance footage from the convenience store and just say, are you sure you don’t wanna change your story? And then that was just gonna be it. And then we were supposed to see the actual events of the movie in an entirely different feature film. But So weird. I know. But somebody convinced I don’t know who it was. I don’t know if it was producers or or or who it was, but somebody convinced him, no.  We need to because I guess that would have been even more confusing. They were like, no, we need to give them a little more. We need to show them a little more. So they did and they never went forward with that, you know, alternate version or whatever. But I don’t know. The concept is interesting. We we’re being really critical of it. You know, as far as, cinematography is concerned, acting is Todd.  You know, the filmmaking is good.

Todd:  Oh, it’s it is. It’s top notch. And and and there’s I mean, it is tense. I mean, as a slasher film without the twist, it is a tense, intense scene. The killer’s really scary, and I think the fact that he is, so relentless and brutal is pretty terrifying as well. When he first goes into the house, and Marie has, you know, cleverly, like you said, done up her bedroom to make it look like nobody was in there, she even thinks to go into the bathroom and wipe down the sink so there’s no water in the sink or anything like that. And when this guy comes through here and she’s hiding under the bed and he is slowly and methodically going around the room, He is actually checking all these things.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  Like he’s putting his hand in the sink, and he even puts his finger under the tap, which is something she didn’t think to check. And as he puts his finger up under the tap and reaches up in there a little bit, he he comes out and there’s a drop of water on there. And you’re like, man, this guy is not gonna let anything slip by him.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  You know? And so it really adds to the tension of the film. You know, that again, coupled with the scene of him just brutally murdering that guy in in a random convenience store. So and and like you said, there’s there’s, there’s a clearly a definite look to the film. It’s got a very gritty, grimy kind of look.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  It does it is a little reminiscent of Saw that way even though I don’t think Saw was out yet, or maybe it was. It has a green, kind of a green pallet cast to it, especially and only really after the action starts going. And I I wanna say that that either when the guy is present or when she, you know, begins her masturbation and from then on, it gets that green look to it. And there was a part of me, again, watching this movie, being able to think about these things because I knew the twist. I wondered if he wasn’t trying to impose, like, a a subconscious idea that green is envy.

Craig:  Mhmm. Maybe. You know,

Todd:  and that she was envious and that was kind of, you know, coloring her all of the actions. But, yeah, it’s it’s a good look, and the violence is good. Actually, the, the guy who did all the special effects for this film, yeah, he was Fulci’s makeup special effects, you know, gore person. And, you know, at one point he was considered like, here’s the guy you go for for go to for gore, and so they go they went to him for this, you know? And and it’s impressive, like, the facts, if if not just extremely over the top. Yeah. But yeah. So, I mean, it has its merits as a film. It does.  And the movie kick kicked off what at the time was dubbed the new French extreme new French Extremity Movement. I mean, there were books written about it and stuff like that, of this series of films that came out around this time that were coming from France. One of which was Martyrs, and that might have been one of the last, you know, a few years later. I don’t think it was a movement that lasted too long. Mhmm. But it was a time in which when French filmmakers were experimenting with doing this extreme stuff. And, you know, I don’t know. I I it doesn’t really appeal to me.  I I hated Martyrs. I mean, that movie, I really have mixed feelings about. I’m sure we’re gonna do it eventually. Eventually. Yeah. But, you know, this movie’s I feel similarly about. You know, I have very mixed feelings about it.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, I guess I do too. I I don’t wanna be too down on it. I I know there are a lot of fans out there. And if you’re a fan and you’re listening and we have had any misperceptions or we’ve missed something and, you know, fill us in. We’d love to know. Like I said, when I saw it the first time, I thought it was good. Watching it again, I could appreciate it for what it was, but I probably won’t ever watch it again.  There’s I just don’t I just don’t feel any desire to ever see it again. But that’s not to say it’s a bad film. And if you’re a fan, I I think I can understand why. But, Twice was probably one too many times for me.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. I’m I’m with you on this. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. We’re on Google Play, iTunes, Stitcher, anywhere that you can find podcasts, we are there. We also have a Facebook page where you can like us, share us, and also let us know what movies you’d like to do in the future and discuss these films. Let us know where we’re completely off base and high tension is, you know, high cinema.  Until, next time. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

We’re big fans of Dario Argento here at 2 Guys & A Chainsaw. His films don’t make a lot of logical sense, but they are so well-crafted and creative, with such beautiful imagery, that we’ll overlook all that for style over substance. We both enjoyed this surreal and stunning tale about a psychic girl and her special insect friends.

We reviewed the superior uncut Italian release, as opposed to the American version with the misleading poster art and alternative title of Creepers.

Episode 112, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd and

Craig:  I’m Craig.

Todd:  For today’s episode, we’ve gone back to Italy for another Italian film by one of my favorite Italian horror film directors, Dario Argento. We’ve done a couple of his, at least one of his before. Right? I think we did Deep Red. Uh-huh. Maybe The Bird with the Crystal Plumage. Uh-huh. And this one is more of a straight horror film than those others. Those others were what we would call giallo pictures, which in case you haven’t heard those episodes, are a very famous detective story, the slash slasher film that was very popular during the seventies in Italy and made a bit of an impact in the US, but, they’re very stylistic. And Dario Argento is one of the directors responsible, I think, for setting some of the style of those films. And, he carries it through into the straight horror genre as well, kind of like his contemporaries of Lucio Fulci. I would say he probably he probably deals more in the horror genre than any other, and this one is called Phenomena, and this is one of his first films and only films that got up what we what you would consider proper theatrical release in the States, even though it was cut up considerably when it was released here. Interestingly enough, as we discovered when we started watching this, most of the Italian films we’ve been seeing are shot in Italian or at least maybe they’re shot in English, but then they have to redub them again in English, because they usually don’t record the sound on the set. They always recorded afterwards. In this case, the movie was shot in English, but then redubbed in Italian. So we were watching, people clearly speaking English, if you were looking at their lips, and several English a couple, you know, American actors in this. But then we’re hearing Italian come out, and we’re reading the subtitles at the bottom of the screen. That’s because we watched the uncut version. We we just, I decided that if we were gonna do this, we’re gonna do it right. We should watch the original instead of the one that was cut up for the American release. I had heard, that it was better anyway, that it made a little more sense, but it did make for a bit of a longer movie. Didn’t it, Craig?

Craig:  Yeah. How long did it

Todd:  end up being? Almost 2 hours. Almost

Craig:  Okay. I asked that. It was a trick question because I have to confess that I cheated a little bit. The version that we both had, the file type was not supported on the device I was using. So I had to go to YouTube to find it, and it’s there in its entirety. It’s like an hour and 56 minutes, but most of it is in English with the original English actors No way. Speaking their line. And the reason that I know that is because the star of the movie is Jennifer Connelly, and I love her. Like, I’ve been madly in love with her since the eighties when I first saw Labyrinth. So I I totally recognize her voice, so I know it was her. What I will say though is in the version that I watched, there were some scenes that were in Italian, and they were brief and they were kind of far between, but there were some scenes that were in Italian and I and they did not have subtitles. So you may have to fill in a couple little holes for me, here and there because I was watching Italian, and I don’t speak Italian. But I think I got the whole movie.

Todd:  That sounds like about right. It was an hour and 56 minutes for me Todd. And, I’m with you on that. I I fell in love with Jennifer Tilly, at The Rocketeer.

Craig:  That’s nice, but this is Jennifer Connelly. I’m

Todd:  sorry. You’re right. Jennifer Tilly wasn’t in the rocket in the rocketeer. Jennifer Connelly in the rocketeer was just a total babe, and she’s she’s a babe in this movie too. Much younger, though. Not much younger, but a bit younger. I read that she, got her finger bit off during this movie.

Craig:  Yeah. I read that Todd. By a monkey. Right? Okay. Because there’s a monkey. Because why wouldn’t there be? Why? But there’s a monkey. This this movie, I I had never seen it. I remember seeing the cover art, I think. You know, I think that the cover art was just, like, kind of her face, and then maybe kinda surrounded by bugs or something. I don’t remember. But I never got around to seeing it, and I was actually kinda surprised looking at the date that it was 1985 because that was, you know, kinda right in our heyday, for, you know, watching horror movies or whatever,

Clip:  but I had never seen it until today. And it’s interesting to

Craig:  me that you said that it’s so different from the giallo pictures because really to me Todd doesn’t really seem all that different. It’s still kind of a murder mystery, who done it, detective type story.

Todd:  I guess you’re right. Except in

Craig:  this one, the detectives are a 14 year old girl and her bugs.

Todd:  It has the supernatural element to it. Right? It’s kind of like I mean, I mean, to be honest, though, I mean, how many slasher movies are basically that? It’s it’s a person with no supernatural abilities who’s just wandering around killing people, and it’s up to everybody in the movie to either find out who he is or get killed. Get killed. Yeah. It’s not all that different, and some of them throw in the detective angle. Like, I was just thinking about prom night, which was basically that, but then it had a detective angle that was thrown in the last minute that made

Craig:  no sense. Well, the final the the final act of this movie was a little confusing as well.

Todd:  It was all over the place.

Craig:  Having never seen it before and watching it today, a couple of things struck me. First of all, it felt modern or at least eighties modern and compared to the seventies giallo films, and a big part of that was the music. Yeah. The soundtrack is by Goblin. Right?

Todd:  It is. Although, I mean, and they’re credited big time in the front line, and they’re and they’re you know, they do all of his pictures, but I actually read that they contributed very little to this soundtrack. I read, believe it or not, that the only contribution that Goblin made was actually the music from, dawn of the dead, which apparently plays in the background during one of the television scenes or something. And that that really striking score that we hear that sounds very goblinesque, is not by them. That’s what I read anyway.

Craig:  Well, and it it was it that doesn’t really surprise me too much because a lot of the scenes are set to what really feels like eighties contemporary rock music Yeah. Almost to a point where it seems a little bit out of place. Like, you’ll have kind of this harrowing scene where somebody’s running away from a killer or whatever, and they’ll just be like this awesome jam in the background.

Todd:  It’s like it’s like Motorhead or Iron Maiden or something, and it sounds like somebody just flipped on the radio. Right.

Craig:  I mean, it’s good music. I I liked the music, but it’s it seemed a little out of place in places. So that was one of the things that struck me. And the other thing that struck me was that it it it’s very much Argento. Now you’re much more of a fan of his than I am. I’ve seen the movies that we’ve watched together, and I’ve seen Suspiria. But this definitely has hints of Suspiria in it. You know? This this young girl, Jennifer Connelly, who her name is Jennifer in the movie too, gets sent her dad’s a famous actor. She gets sent off to this famous Swiss boarding school, and then all of it but, uh-oh, there’s a killer that’s going around and killing all these young girls. And so she has to so then it becomes a mystery who how are we gonna find out who this killer is? And that’s very kind of classic, but then there’s also an entomologist who has a monkey who is also his nurse, and and Jennifer Caudley can talk to bugs.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  There you go. I mean, that’s that’s pretty much the movie in a nutshell.

Todd:  I love the creativity, though. Like, I I mean, movies could get absurd, and you know me. I often, fault films for being outside of the realm of believability, but I do tend to give a pass to these Italian films because I just as I’ve said before, I just I don’t believe that the plot in these films is really meant to be followed closely. I feel like, 1st and foremost, these directors, are more concerned about imagery, almost about creating visual poems, you know, than they are about a plot. And so what we get is more in service to the style and the feeling and the image and the emotion you’re supposed to be getting as opposed to making any sort of coherent sense as to what’s actually going on. But I I but I also I love the idea, like, I mean, who in the world, this has gotta be the only film that has a monkey in it that has an entomologist who solves crimes with bugs

Craig:  and, and does it,

Todd:  you know, it solves a mystery with the help of a girl who has a psychic connection to bugs. Right? You know, it’s like one of a kind.

Craig:  It is. And and it’s funny because in talking about the plot, even when I was watching it I was thinking, Todd, this is pretty stupid. Yeah. And yet and yet ultimately I liked the movie, like, and frankly I really kind of not sure why I liked it. I did. I mean, as long as it was, and it does get a little bit slow in some places. I mean, I think that they could’ve, you know, maybe trimmed some fat here and there. But for the most part, it was intriguing and, you know, I was curious. The very first scene is this girl is, like, on a field trip or something and she gets left behind and so she, you know, they’re out in the country, so she walks to the nearest house, and, when she goes in it seems like there’s nobody there. But we see that there’s someone or something chained to the walls, and it’s trying to break the chains. And eventually it does, and then whatever it is attacks her, wraps the chains around her neck, and then chases her outside, And there’s, like, a big waterfall, and she’s kind of on a bridge or something. And I feel like she gets stabbed first. Is that right?

Todd:  She gets stabbed with a pair of scissors. It’s really again, it’s so stylishly Argento. He loves these close ups and especially of the brutality. And early on when she’s breaking free of these chains, a pair of scissors falls from a table, and it hits the floor and just like sticks in the floor, and you get the shiny bright silvery scissors right there in the foreground that he makes a big deal out of. And then as she’s being chased, you see that the killer, you never again, classic argento you never see the killer except maybe some gloved hands or maybe in an overcoat or something, which, come to think of it, doesn’t make a lot of sense in this film. But alright, anyway, it’s there, and then you just see these scissors, almost like the scissors coming after her. Once she gets cornered in the waterfall, he just stabs her repeatedly in the gut. And then this poor girl, like this is like a waterfall, I guess, you could visit, like a tourist attraction. Right. And and she’s kind of under it in kind of a cave like area, And I guess there’s a piece of glass there, like a glass window, to keep people from falling backwards. But her head goes backwards through this window, shatters the glass. It’s a very slow motion scene, and then, the next thing we see is a shot from the other end. Her head has been severed and flies off into the waterfall and down, and then we see the body being dragged away in in an upside down view of the body being dragged away. It’s just so stylish, but it’s it’s pretty brutal. Yeah. It is. This poor girl, chains around her neck, stabbed repeatedly with some scissors, pushed backwards through a piece of plate glass, and then her head gets lopped off.

Craig:  Right. And and that was, Argento’s daughter, wasn’t it? Yeah. Fiore Argento played that small role. She gets she gets, like, really high billing, but she’s only in that she’s only in that one scene. I guess that’s the perk of being the director’s daughter.

Todd:  Right.

Craig:  Right. But yeah. Okay. So then we know there’s a killer. Now it’s funny. I really kinda wish that we had seen the same version because I just don’t know. I think that we did, but you say, you know, there’s, like, the gloved hands or whatever.

Todd:  Well

Craig:  I was actually looking for that because that is so characteristic of his movies, but I didn’t see it in this. Not in

Todd:  the first scene. I’m sorry. It wasn’t in the first scene. It was in the later on. You didn’t see it at all later on?

Craig:  Yeah. Later on, yes. But much later on because I misspoke. For, I would say, the first hour of the movie well, really up until the 3rd act when we actually do see somebody in a coat. I was I was absolutely 100% certain it was the monkey. Why? Because why wouldn’t we I was absolutely sure that the monkey was the killer. Oh. But spoiler alert, it’s not. After that scene, then Jennifer Connelly arrives, and, you know, again, she’s very beautiful, but she kinda plays I mean, she’s likable, but at times, she’s also a little bit stuck up. I mean, you can tell that she’s rich. Her dad’s a famous actor, and, she goes to this school, and it’s what? The Richard Wagner International School for Girls. And it’s this big, beautiful, mansion like, and Sophie and, like, Sophie’s infatuated with her dad and, and and then she’s like telling Sophie’s just kind of talking about, oh, yeah. This is our school or whatever.

Clip:  You know, I’m really glad you’re here. I’ve always had to sleep alone. It can be very scary. Thanks for coming. I’m the one who should thank you. Don’t let me forget, I owe you a meal. You know, there’s a murderer around here, A crazy man. A maniac who kidnaps girls our age and kills them. And then he hides the bodies. Could we change the subject? I need my sleep. I’m really tired from the trip.

Todd:  Get that right out in the open.

Craig:  Oh, gosh. It’s just so funny. Like, that’s just, you know, the bathroom’s on the left. There’s a murderer who kills us.

Todd:  Just watch out. For as much as, you know, this this seems to be a real issue, especially in the grounds surrounding the school. They don’t put the school on lockdown. It’s still a pretty open campus. They have no trouble wandering around. No. There’s no security. Yeah. It’s it’s so Suspiria, though. You know? She goes, oh, yeah. Like, in Suspiria, it was this old mansion that’s a ballet school, and this is just another old mansion that’s a girl’s they’re both girls schools. But I felt like Suspiria did a better job of making me believe that this was actually a school. And Yeah. Because in this one, there’s this foyer, and the girls are milling about in it, and it all seems a little staged. It all seems a little pushed and forced like, oh, we gotta put some extras in the back of the scene, and they need to be carrying schoolbooks, and let’s have them talking in this corner and talking in this corner. But I don’t really get the sense that this would be a place where the girls would actually mill about and be talking. Right. I I was hard for me to believe that this school, just from the way that it was staged and the way that these different scenes unfolded, was actually in this this huge mansion. But but just just like Suspiria 2, as soon as she gets there, the headmistress meets her at the at the front, and she tells her, you know, this is the main house. This is where the school is. There are other houses on these grounds, but don’t go there. They’re all closed up. So instantly, you know, something’s gonna happen there too.

Craig:  Right. Right. And and it immediately does. Well, first, this is so insignificant, but I just bring it up because it’s an interesting piece of trivia. Jennifer Connelly has a very Phoebe Cates and Gremlins moment where she tells this story about how her mom left on Christmas. Yeah. And, it’s it’s something like, you know, they were all opening presents or whatever, and then there was a phone call and her mom answered it, and the mom was like, I’ll be right there. And it turns out that was her lover on the phone, and she left and she never came back. It’s really insignificant to the plot. The only reason that I brought it up was because I I was reading that that is actually a story from Dario Argento’s childhood. Like, I guess that really happened to him. Poor guy. Geez. I know. Be

Todd:  right back.

Craig:  It’s funny. It’s just, like, kind of this random somber story. Like, I expected it to have some significance, but it doesn’t. Apparently, he just wanted to get a story out there.

Todd:  But he but he makes a big deal out of it. Yeah. Like, zooms in slowly on her face. Yeah. I’m telling it’s it takes, like, 5 minutes.

Craig:  Then the girls go to sleep, and Jennifer Connelly starts having these dreams. And it’s in these dreams where the style of Argento really shines through. It’s very surreal, there’s a lot of interesting use of color, like she finds herself running down this Todd white hallway, and it’s just real quick jump cuts between images, and she’s seeing kind of these violent images and weird things. But meanwhile, she’s also sleepwalking with her eyes open and she’s walking around the school and she ends up walking, like, up onto the roof and she walks along this ledge and I didn’t even really understand what was going on here. Like, the way that I understood it is she actually witnessed a murder. Is that correct?

Todd:  I think so. Yeah. But because she was sleepwalking, when she woke up, she didn’t remember.

Craig:  Gotcha. So she sees a girl get killed in the school.

Todd:  But it’s a cool scene because she’s going across. And and I think this is where we also is this where we’re also getting the the crazy, like, rock soundtrack going in Probably. Yeah. And I felt like because they have the TV on, it seems like all night, and he does make kind of a point of showing the TV, and at the time she falls asleep, there is a band playing on TV. I thought that the only way that this music really made sense in this scene was I thought it was carrying through into her dream from playing in the background, in the room. But yeah, she walks across the ledge and she goes out there, and it’s just randomly, you know, there’s this girl who’s been chased into this other more boarded up mansion on the property that she’s on the roof of now or along the ledge of now, And she had dreamed, I think we’re meant to think, that she had dreamed this sequence of this girl being chased by the killer, but maybe not. Maybe that was just something we saw earlier.

Craig:  I don’t know.

Todd:  But anyway, she ends up, at the top in front of a window when this girl gets this girl gets pushed through the window again. So here we have again this girl whose head goes through a plate glass window, and then she gets speared with this device. And we see that close ups of this, again, this really silvery spear, I guess, being assembled, cut in with these chase scenes, and right through the mouth, like through the back of her head out through her mouth, which of course is messed up, and Jennifer sees this, and then the girl gets pulled back in, and Jennifer starts to walk back along the ledge, and as she walks back part of the ledge falls away, and there’s this it’s it’s like a whole action scene, really, that I thought was really impressive, because a lot of it’s filmed from far away. So you can see there’s actually a person dangling there, and it just happens to catch on her clothes so that she doesn’t fall, but then, you know, it rips, but then there’s like kind of a long plant there that catches her and droops her down to the ground. So, even though she ends up falling from a high place, she doesn’t get injured. Right. She ends up in the town. Again, this is so dreamlike because you don’t really see her get from point a to point b. It’s just, like, suddenly, she’s not in front of the mansion anymore. She’s in the the street in the middle of the town. Right. Just kind of stumbling along. Yeah. And almost gets hit by cars, and she almost gets hit by 2 guys in a convertible, and you they get out, and they’re like, are you okay? Are you on drugs? What’s going on? And you think that they’re, like, helping her because they get her into the car, but she’s struggling. But then, as they’re driving down the street, from their dialogue, it sounds like they’re gonna, like, have their way with her. Did you get that impression?

Craig:  It was in Italian. Oh, it’s

Todd:  all in Italian. Well, they’re

Craig:  Yeah. The whole scene in the car was in Italian. But, yeah, I mean, it’s it’s that’s what it seemed like. They were being aggressive, and and, like, you know, not letting her go or whatever. And it seemed sinister. It didn’t seem helpful.

Todd:  Yeah. They were saying to each other, like, what do you think? Do you think she’s on drugs? Do you think we can do it? And this kind of stuff. Gotcha. So the fact that she escapes is from them is good too. This is just like parallel around every corner for this poor woman.

Craig:  Right. But she jumps out of the car, like, rolls into the forest.

Todd:  And then the monkey saves her.

Craig:  And then the monkey saves her. And it’s so funny, like well, first of all, she sits there and, like, talks to some ladybugs for a while. I say talks to. She doesn’t really talk to them, but, like, she has, like, these, like psychic communications with them or whatever and then the monkey shows up and she’s like, Oh, hello monkey. I’ll take

Todd:  your hand.

Craig:  I’ll take your hand. Where are we going? And the monkey whose name is Ingrid, I think. Right? Or Ilsa, what’s her name? Inga. Inga. Okay. Yeah. Her name is Inga, and, Inga takes her back to the, entomologist’s house. And the entomologist is John MacGregor, professor John MacGregor, and he’s a paraplegic and he’s played by Donald Pleasants of Halloween fame. And they strike up an immediate bond because he says that he’s an entomologist and she’s, like, oh, I really like bugs, and he’s, like, oh, I used to know a girl who liked bugs. She used Todd she you remind me of her. She used to come and visit me, but then she Todd coming because she got killed. The killer got her. Greta. Poor Greta. Right? But, you know, so they form this Todd, and he tells her, you know, you’ve gotta get in control of this sleepwalking. Next time you sleepwalk, you know, recognize it and tell yourself I’m sleepwalking, I have to wake up. And she’s like, oh okay, I will, but it’s not gonna be any big deal. This hasn’t happened in a long time. I don’t expect it to happen again. And, she ends up going back to the school where the horrible headmistress who has just been a bitch to her from the beginning Yeah. Like, without without any motivation. Yeah. Decides that she’s crazy. The stock

Todd:  terrible headmistress. You know? Yeah.

Craig:  You gotta smile. Beautiful. She’s a beautiful woman, but

Todd:  is really.

Craig:  She’s nasty.

Todd:  Yeah. Well, before they leave, they have another conversation, and he mentions the phone or fawn or something. It’s just they talk about the wind, basically. This is another visual theme that’s carrying throughout the movie. It seems like whenever something bad is going to happen or the killer is going to strike, it just gets really windy all of a sudden. And they keep talking about this place, like, they call it the Swiss. They’re in Switzerland. They talk about the wind, and, oh, it’s the wind. It’s the evil wind, and it’s like the Swiss Transylvania. And I’m not sure exactly what that means. Does that mean it’s, like, supernatural? Like I guess. Transylvania is really

Craig:  Bad things happen there. I don’t know.

Todd:  But, but that’s another thing that he makes a really good point of of zooming in on Donald Pleasence when he mentions this. And I was kind of happy they brought it up because I was noticing, you know, as the movie was going on that this wind would really pick up, whenever the killer was around and bad things were happening. It’s not something that really, I think, makes a lot of sense, but it’s just something that visually really adds something to the movie. Just it’s a poetic element to it. And and we had actually met this guy earlier in an earlier scene. He had been talking with a couple of detectives, and it looked like they had the head of the girl that we had seen earlier. This is when it sets up for us the fact that he’s into bugs. And, apparently, he’s this guy’s a a genius. This guy’s discovered all kinds of things about bugs. One of the things he’s discovered is how, supposedly anyway, according to the movie, bugs eat corpses.

Clip:  We call them the 8 squadrons of death. First comes a common fly, lays its eggs in the rotting corpse, and thus the cycle begins. Each group stays 15 days. 15 multiplied by 8, the number of the groups. Now I see. By calculating the presence and the growth of the flies or the maggots,

Todd:  you can pinpoint the exact date of death. And while she’s over there, he mentions how she’s she seems to have this connection with the flies and the bugs that are in there. So he’s playing with the bug, and it squirts him, and she touches it and he’s like, be careful. And she’s like, no, no, it won’t squirt me. She’s got like a fly on her and it’s just, you know, just walking all over her arm, which none of this, I mean, this is all pre CGI. So they had Todd be working with real except for a couple elements where they’re flying bugs, we can tell it’s animated. They had to be working with real animals here, and that in and of itself, I think, was kind of amazing that they were able to catch these moments or or cajole these bugs into getting these great shots of her interacting with them without flying away.

Craig:  Yeah. And so it’s just it’s just so funny. It’s just, like, it’s just established. Oh, bugs really like you. Oh, yeah. They always have.

Todd:  Like, okay. But Todd does make a little bit of sense later within the realm of the film. Sure. In that he reveals that part of his research that nobody believes is that he discovered that bugs actually communicate telepathically. Mhmm. And so it would stand to reason if she is, like, a telepathic type person that maybe she has a telepathic, connection to these bugs. So the movie tries to make, like, a pseudoscientific explanation for all this, but it’s really goofy. Like, you say, like, oh, wow. Here’s this girl who has a connection to bugs who happens to run into this etymologist. And Sure.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s kind of goofy, but it’s a movie. You know? Like, you you just you just accept. Okay. She has a psychic connection with bugs. Fine. Alright. But when she goes when she goes back to school, the headmistress is convinced that she’s sick, and she’s got this doctor who, you know, says that sleepwalking is often an early sign of schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder. No. It’s not. Like, that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. But they they wanna give her this EKG. But it’s really weird because, like, when she’s taking an EK EKG, she starts having these flashes of memories from the night before and, like, she sees the dead girl and whatnot. And, like, when she’s getting the EKG, she’s, like, she acts like it’s shocking her. Yeah. I’m not a doctor, but I don’t think that’s how EKGs work.

Todd:  I was thinking the same thing. They just read. They don’t, they don’t do anything to you.

Craig:  But she freaks out and she, she runs you know, she’s very defiant and says I’m not crazy and, you know, I’m not high or whatever, all these other things that they accuse her of. So, she goes out and she she talks to Sophie and she’s like, look, I probably won’t sleepwalk again, but will you watch me through the night just in case? And Sophie says yes. And then Sophie immediately leaves, like, as soon as she falls asleep.

Todd:  She’s so sweet to go. Fred.

Craig:  Yeah. She’s perfect. She’s like the kids in a nightmare on Elm Street. Oh, yeah. We’ll totally watch your back.

Todd:  Except in this case, she’s sneak it out to see her boyfriend or something.

Craig:  Yeah. To get which Todd get some action over.

Todd:  I thought was one of the guys in the car. Am I mistaken?

Craig:  I don’t know. I didn’t know who he was. That’s what I’m saying. I had no idea. But anyway okay. So Sophie goes out, and then Jennifer starts to sleepwalk again. Meanwhile, Sophie’s boyfriend is like, oh, yeah. Well, I can only stop by. I’ve gotta go. And she’s like, okay. Whatever. And so then she starts getting chased by the same scary figure with the put together harpoon or whatever it is he or she has, and eventually she gets killed. And, Jennifer wakes herself up from sleepwalking, but she hears somebody scream. And so she goes out, I guess, to investigate and a firefly leads her to a glove in a tree.

Clip:  Yes.

Craig:  And so

Todd:  Oh my gosh. The sequence is so weird. The thing is, like, she goes outside, which is stupid. Right? And you’re thinking, alright, she’s gonna die too. And, of course, the wind picks up. And she doesn’t seem to be sleepwalking at this point. Right? Because she countered the locked door. The one good thing Sophie did do was lock the door like she said she would. So it seems like the locked door, like, jolts her out of it. So she’s outside. She’s totally lucid. And the this music picks up, and it’s it’s really good music. I mean, it’s this classic Argento. I I would swear Goblin wrote it, but apparently, they didn’t. Anyway, Todd pumps and it’s driving and it’s exciting. It almost feels like like chase music, but this whole scene is, like, 10 minutes long, and it’s super slow. The she’s just wandering outside very slowly stepping, looking around. This firefly comes around and starts buzzing around. She looks up and it dances around a bit and lands on her palm, and then it comes up and it starts flying away and she’s, like, slowly, it’s like slowly leading her way and so she’s slowly following it and into some bushes and I guess it’s, like, really tangled up, but then she decides she needs to stick her hand in there and so she’s carefully pushing her hand through and avoiding some thorns and pulls out this glove. I mean, the whole time, this music’s going. You know?

Craig:  And it’s like I’m waiting

Todd:  for the killer to jump out and get her. Yeah. You know? It just doesn’t. And showed up. She finds the glove. She looks at it. The wind stops and she walks back inside. It turns out that the glove had some maggots on it.

Craig:  Well, and it gets a little bit jumbled here because I feel like they were trying they wanted to get several scenes in, and it they just kinda seemed like they had to wedge them in. Like, she goes and she talks to the entomologist again and, you know, again, they just kinda have a discussion about how the bugs like you or whatever and and maybe they can help you or whatever. But then we go back to the school and the girls and the headmistress are, like, plotting against Jennifer, like, the headmistress wants to plant a girl in her room to keep an eye on her. And one of the girls grabs a letter that she had written to her dad, and in the letter it says, you know, they think that maybe I have multiple personalities, and I think maybe I do too because my new personality can talk to bugs or something. And they they start teasing her about this and they’re like pretending to be bugs and then they start chanting, we worship you. We worship you. And she breaks away and she’s facing them as a group. The wind starts to blow and the light changes on her face, right? She somehow psychically calls an enormous swarm of flies that then descend on the school and are, like, covering every single window and

Todd:  That shuts them up real quick.

Craig:  Yeah. Right. And and so then somehow, I don’t know how it works. I I I feel like they try to sedate her or they do sedate her or something, and they’re gonna send her to the loony bin. Like, we’re gonna send her to the crazy farm or something.

Todd:  She faints, after this whole spell. And when she wakes up, she’s got an IV in her arm. Yep.

Craig:  But the headmistress leaves a nurse keep an eye on her, the nurse falls asleep, she escapes and she goes back to the entomologist and this is where the detective work begins because the entomologist tells her, okay, that larva that you brought me from the glove is a very specific type of larva, the sarcophagus. The grand Larva. Yeah. The great sarcophagus lava. He’s got one of the flies that comes from this larvae and he’s like, it’s time to get the 2 greatest known detectives ever on the case. He’s like, maybe I should say unknown. And she’s like, what? And he’s like, well the detectives are you and the fly. We’re gonna be partners. You’re gonna be partners and the fly is gonna lead you to the dead Todd. And she’s like, Well, but I don’t even know where to start. And he’s like, Well, we know where this one girl was where her body was found. So the killer is probably around there.

Clip:  When you get near to the killer’s house, you’ll know about it soon enough because the sarcophagus will go crazy and head straight for the dead bodies. All you have to do is follow it and come straight back. Do you feel up to it? Yeah.

Todd:  So he sends her and his fly out alone.

Craig:  Yeah. This 14 year old girl to go and a fly to go find the killer.

Todd:  Right. Right. The killer of 14 year old girls. Yes. Right. He helps her up to that point. And then he sets her loose. Elise’s fly is not trying to make love to her. The earlier true. The the with the earlier scene when they establish a psychic connection, it’s just it’s just this really creepy creepy scene toward the beginning of the movie when they first meet when the fly is all oh, the some bug is crawling all over her, and he’s like, oh, it’s making a sound that, that’s unusual. Like, this is this is the mating sound. She’s like, oh.

Clip:  And then

Todd:  he’s like, well, that’s really strange because it’s not mating season. She’s, like, oh, yeah. He’s, like, you’re really having an effect on this bug. She’s, like, yeah, I guess I am. He’s, like, no, like, you’re really exciting him. He’s really excited by you. And I’m thinking, where is this going? Like, okay. We get it. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Craig:  So they’re on the bus. You’re right. They’re on the bus. The the 14 year old girl in the fly take a bus trip, and they, she gets into a fight with some lady on the bus about having the window open or something totally random and, but then, Donald Pleasants had told her the fly will start to freak out when you’re close. So you’ll know when you’re close because the fly will start to freak out. So the fly starts to freak out, so she gets off the bus and she lets the fly out, and the fly starts leading her, and it leads her to the house from the beginning of the movie that the first girl had been killed at. Well, she she goes and she investigates the house and she doesn’t really find anything, but when she’s, like, standing on a stool or something trying to pull down some documents off of a shelf, the leg of the stool breaks a hole in the floor. But immediately then after that, the groundskeeper or, like, the real estate agent who’s representing this house shows up and kicks her out. And and he’s like, nobody lives here. Nobody’s lived here since 8 months ago when the former tenants left. And so she leaves, but we see the, fly fly down into that hole in the floorboard, and we see that there are body parts down there. So she definitely was on the right track. She just didn’t quite get there. Now, this is still

Todd:  a pretty tense scene though because we expect there’s gonna be something there.

Craig:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. And in fact, there’s a car that we saw in a few shots earlier that seems to be trailing her, but he doesn’t make a big deal out of it. Like, you kind of think, oh, well, maybe the car just turned behind the bus at some point. But then while she’s in there, you see a shot of the car blocking the driveway out the window. So there’s somebody there, and then it zooms in ominously on the tailpipe of this car. And I really like what Argento does here visually, because up to this point, he’s been showing us a lot of these ominous silvery things. Right? The spear and the scissors at the beginning, all glinting and silvery all in close-up. And so when he zooms in on the tailpipe of this car, it’s just polished bright silver, you know, like a sports car. Mhmm. And it gives you this just a subconscious feeling like, oh, no. You know, she’s in danger here. But I think it just turns out to be the the car of the real estate agent.

Craig:  No. It’s it’s the detective. Oh, it’s the detective who comes after

Todd:  him. Okay.

Craig:  Yeah. Because the detective, after she leaves, the detective comes and talks to the real estate guy. And he’s like, well, who lived here, you know, last? And the guy’s like, oh, I can’t tell you that. It’s confidential. And that’s kinda all we get Well out of that.

Todd:  I think he gets the important bit of information though that the last tenant was in there about 8 months ago.

Craig:  Yes. Right. Right. Which makes sense with the timeline. So then we get this weird scene where Inge, the monkey, is outside the entomologist’s house and she’s like distracted by a kite in a tree. Mhmm. I didn’t know if this was something intentional, like, somebody put that there to distract her. I did so. Okay. So so somebody put that there to distract her. And so she’s messing with it. And while she’s messing with it, somebody goes into the house and closes and locks the door behind them. And Inga goes to the door and starts pounding on it, and she’s kinda freaking out. And then she goes to a window, and and she’s pounding on the window, and she starts breaking into the window like she’s breaking the the blinds or whatever, and then she’s kinda trying to break in. Meanwhile, the entomologist is coming down his stair lift in his wheelchair, and we see finally somebody actually in like a trench coat and gloves and they Todd the, they stop the chair lift and then they Todd it again. And when he comes down, he gets impaled with that, spear. I guess then the killer flees. Inga gets inside and she’s obviously sad at first, but then she’s mad. And so she runs outside and the killer’s driving away and she attacks the car.

Todd:  Yeah. I thought this I thought this is really a touching scene though. I did too. Yeah. Right? Because as Inga’s outside and she sees the door close in the front of the house, it’s like she realizes she’s been tricked, and she’s running up there and desperately trying to get in the house, and she’s breaking through a window in the door and reaching in. So she can see as she’s trying to get in the house, she sees, what she can’t stop in front of her. This whole scene unfold and this guy gets killed. And yeah, when she gets in there, she just goes up to him and pokes him and just looks immediately. It’s just really sad.

Craig:  It was sad. It was sad. I I agree. And I was, you know, I was kind of rooting for her when she got mad and she attacks the car but the killer kind of like swerves the car around so she gets thrown off. But then she goes walking through the forest, Inga the monkey, and she finds a trash can, and she digs through it for about 5 seconds before she finds a straight razor. And then she’s ready to go. So that’s

Todd:  so random. No.

Clip:  And the

Craig:  rash Okay.

Todd:  A very silvery, you know, straight razor.

Craig:  Yep. Yep. Sharp, you know, because you would find I mean, who doesn’t just throw their straight razors away? You know, you’re like, you’re hiking in the woods. You’re shaving. You’re done. You know? With it. It’s beautiful.

Todd:  You clean it off very nicely, and then you throw it away. Didn’t Jennifer actually see this happen? Wasn’t Jennifer around to kind of I don’t

Craig:  think so. Okay.

Todd:  I thought she I don’t think so. Alright.

Craig:  Maybe I Because Jennifer is in Todd, and she wants to get the heck out of there. She’s on the phone with her dad’s manager or financial manager or something, and she wants to leave. And she’s like, I’m serious. I want out of here. I’m not going back to that school. Somebody is trying to kill me. You gotta get me out of here. Wire me some money. And I guess he says he will. So she goes to the bank and and checks and no money has been wired and, so she waits and, you know, she checks in every once in a while, but no money comes through. And eventually, this lady shows up. Now we’ve seen this lady before. She I I think that she’s like the headmistress’s assistant or something.

Todd:  Yes. Or teacher at the school or something. Yeah.

Craig:  Right. She’s just kind of this homely lady who’s just kind of been around in the background, in all of the school scenes. But we’ve never really I mean, she’s not been any kind of significant character at all.

Todd:  Not at all.

Craig:  But she shows up.

Clip:  Your father’s attorney, mister Shapiro, called us from New York. He was very worried about you and extremely angry with us for, let’s say, losing you. What a bastard. He sounded very reasonable on the phone. He spoke to me and only calmed down when I told him I would come for you myself. He said I would find you here. I’m not going back to that school. Of course not. He said you want to go back to American media. Is that true? Yes. Well, he authorized me to buy you a ticket and give you some money.

Craig:  So she right. So she takes her home and immediately starts acting really, really weird. Yeah. All the mirrors in her house are covered up. And Jennifer’s like, why? And she’s like, because I don’t live here alone. I told you that. I have a small son and he’s very sick. And seeing his reflection upsets him. Sometimes I think he’s driving me crazy. Like, just out of nowhere and apropos of nothing.

Todd:  Yeah. Well, it’s just that I mean, she’s so shady and all

Craig:  of a sudden I’m like, are you serious? Like, we’ve gotten this far into the movie and we really have never even met this woman before and now all of a sudden she’s acting all weird and Craig. And, like, she looks at Jennifer Connelly and she’s like, oh, you don’t look good. You have a fever. And Jennifer’s like, no. I don’t. And she’s like, yes. You do. I’m gonna go I’m gonna go get you some medicine. So she goes and gets these pills and she’s like, here take these pills. And Jennifer is like, I don’t want to. She’s like, take the pills.

Todd:  They fight about the pills. And finally, she’s like, fine. I’ll take your pills. And I’m thinking, she’s really not gonna take those pills, is she? She gets Right. She’s she’s, like, she goes into the bathroom, and she and the woman’s like, what are you doing in there? And she’s like, I’m going in to take your pills. She’s like, well, why are you closing the door? She just closes the door and locks it, and I’m thinking, okay. She’s going in the bathroom to pretend that she’s taking the pills, but she’s not actually gonna take the pills because this woman, it clearly wants too badly for her to take these pills, and she takes a pill.

Craig:  Right. Like, what?

Todd:  I know. You’re right. This is where the movie totally goes off the rails. It really goes off the rails here.

Craig:  It’s it’s bizarre. So she takes the pill, and then as soon as she’s taken the pill, then she starts to see maggots everywhere. Like, there’s maggots in the sink, and there’s maggots on the towel and there’s maggots on the wall, and then immediately she starts to get really sick and she’s like, the pill is poison. So she so she barfs it up, and then she runs out and she tries to call somebody, but the lady hits her in the head. Yeah. And then somebody arrives and, like, rings the doorbell, and this woman goes around the house pushing all these buttons and, like, this house is like a fortress.

Todd:  It’s like I was gonna lock down.

Craig:  Yeah. All these, like, steel walls, like, drop down over the windows and stuff. Like, what

Todd:  is going on? It’s so funny though. Like, it it just watching this scene just made me so angry because, like, this woman is is is, like, pounding on the door. What are you doing in there? What are you doing there? You’re taking the pills, aren’t you? You’re taking the pills, aren’t you? And don’t lock the door. Come out. And so she comes out. The woman goes rushes into the bathroom, and Jennifer Connelly, who at this point you would think would be running out of the house Right. Sees a telephone and decides to run to the phone instead to make a phone call. Her back totally to this crazy lady, Mhmm. Then, like you said, you know, comes up trying to wrestle the phone away from her. Don’t call anybody. I have a rule. You can’t call anybody in my house. I need to call. No, you’re not gonna call. Again, so she throws her down into the dining room or whatever, and then turns her back on her to try to make that phone call again. Like, are you serious? Which is why the lady comes up behind her and knocks her out. Yeah. It’s so bad. It’s so bad.

Craig:  It it’s it is. It’s pretty stupid. And then so then the lady I don’t even her name’s Bruckner or something. I don’t know. It doesn’t matter. She goes outside and the detective’s out there and he’s, like, asking some questions and they’re just walking along together and we don’t really know what’s going on. Meanwhile, Jennifer’s in the house and, she runs all around and everything’s locked, but she finds this one door that has, like, a grate above it, that she can open. And and she stands up on a chair and she looks through there and there’s a phone in there. So she gets some kind of pole, I don’t even know what that was.

Todd:  Some kind of pole thing? Like, so convenient that she was able to find this extend a pole, right, which she did

Clip:  with a

Craig:  hook at the end. And she picks up the phone, and this takes a good 5 minutes of her messing with the phone. And and she finally gets it almost all the way up, and then she drops it, and it falls to the floor and it falls into this hole in the floor that seems like it must be, like, 20 feet deep because the phone just keeps going and going and going. And pulls the cord taut. Right. Pulls the cord taut. As it okay. So then she well, she hears a scream. She hears a man scream. So she decides that she’s gonna crawl through that window thing, and she does. And, she starts to pull the phone out, but then she hears another scream or she hears the lady come in. And so she crawls down in the hole, and this hole is not even deep. Like, it just runs parallel to the ground. So it doesn’t make any sense that it would have fallen all the way in there. It’s it’s like a tunnel. Yeah. And so she’s crawling through this tunnel and she eventually finds the phone and

Todd:  And she stops at the tunnel to make the phone call. Right. This is a tunnel that she’s, like, crawling through. The phone is in the middle of it, you know, by now, I guess. It shows she stops there to make the call. I’m sorry. That was funny. That was funny.

Craig:  It was funny, and and she doesn’t I don’t even remember why she doesn’t make the call, but, like, we see behind her these bloody arms come in behind her, and they grab her and pull her out. And I was thinking it was probably gonna be the son or whatever the mom was keeping there, but it wasn’t. It’s the detective, and he’s all cut up like the the woman has beaten him and I don’t know what all she did to him, but he looks a mess. But of course Jennifer’s scared so she’s kind of fighting him and when she gets away from him, she falls backward into this huge vat of bodies and slime and maggots. Like, it’s just it’s so gross.

Todd:  It’s just flopping around in there. It’s the most disgusting pit you could possibly imagine. And I’ve seen disgusting pits in horror movies, but I think this one has to kinda take the cake. And she doesn’t just like, oh, and kinda stand up. Like, she’s, like, drowning in it. She’s, like, flopping around. She’s, like, having trouble getting out. She’s falling back into it. I mean, it’s it’s, like, it’s so torturous. It’s almost funny. It’s almost like the Bruce Campbell treatment on this poor girl.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, it is. It really is, and it’s so nasty. And so Bruckner, the woman comes in and just kind of stands there and maniacally laughs. Meanwhile, the detective behind her is trying to get out of his chains, but he his hand won’t fit through. So he he breaks his hand so he can get his hand out, and he he gets a Todd of the woman and gets her down and he’s, like, beating her and then he’s throttling her, and Jennifer gets out of the pit and runs away. And she ends up in that dream hall. It’s not all bright and lit like it wasn’t her dream, but it’s definitely the hallway from her dream. And she’s running through there and she hears crying and she looks in one of the rooms and there’s a little boy standing in the corner with his back to her and she’s like, it’s okay. Everything’s gonna be okay. And he’s like, go away. And she’s like, I know your mommy was bad, but it’s gonna be okay now. And the boy turns around and he is completely hideously disfigured in the face like really really gross. Yeah. Like, beyond young Jason Voorhees gross. Yes. And apparently, his appearance is based on some actual disorder. It’s like a chromosomal disorder, which when I read that I was like, oh, that’s awful. You know, like, this is one of those things that you wouldn’t wish on anybody. I mean it was just terrible. So she runs away and she runs out of a tunnel and then she’s on a lake. So, she jumps in a boat and starts the boat and starts to go away on the boat and the disfigured son comes running down the dock and jumps into the boat and is like attacking her and he’s got that spear thing, and he’s like jabbing it at her. So once again, she calls her friends the bugs, and the bugs swarm the kid and like, I guess they’re biting him or something. So he like starts ripping his face off, and then he falls into the water, presumably dead. In this whole scuffle, the gas tank had been punctured by the spear. So when Jennifer goes to try to start the engine, it catches on fire, and she realizes that it’s going to explode. So she jumps into the water. It does explode. We get lots of underwater shots here, which you and I are both fans of underwater from, you know, photography. And it it’s good here.

Todd:  It is. You know, it’s cool. The lighting is amazing.

Craig:  The lighting is really good and Jennifer Connelly is swimming you know underwater and there’s fire above her, and it really is pretty stunning to look at. And she surfaces a couple of times, but she’s I guess swimming to shore and eventually her ankle gets grabbed and it’s the disfigured kid and they struggle underwater, but she gets away.

Todd:  It’s it’s another one of those, like, movie physics moments where this this kid who’s also underwater, who’s like half her size could possibly be yanking her around. Like, he’s got nothing to pull her against. Right.

Craig:  Well and she’s screaming and screaming and screaming, like, underwater. Underwater, man. Endless supply of oxygen under there. But eventually she gets away from him and I get I think he like catches on fire, surrounded by fire or something. He’s out of the picture. So you think the movie’s over, she comes walking up out of the water, you know, in her whole white outfit, and you know, she ascends out of the water and, she’s walking up and and a car approaches and a guy jumps out and she’s like, oh, yay. And it’s her it’s Morris, her dad’s business agent. And you think this is the end. He’s gonna grab her and put her in the car and they’re gonna drive away and everything’s gonna be fine. But instead, as he approaches from behind, somebody chops his head off. Just out of freaking nowhere.

Todd:  It’s so it it it the movie up to this point, this last, you know, 20 minutes has just been utterly cuckoo. Yeah. This is just the icing on the cuckoo cake.

Craig:  Oh, but it gets even better because okay. So it’s it’s it’s Bruckner who, at this point, I had just started calling Mrs. Voorhees because it’s so close in story. But it’s her and she’s like, you know, you killed my son and I had to kill all those people to try to protect him, but you’re Snoopy and so I had to kill your friends and whatever. And, so she attacks Jennifer and she has her down on the ground and she’s strangling her, I think. And she’s like, go ahead and call your bugs now, just you try. And it’s looking like all is lost, but then from behind somebody slits Bruckner’s throat and she falls down and it’s Inga. With her straight with her straight razor.

Todd:  I honestly I didn’t see that coming because, first of all, I in a movie where a lot doesn’t really make sense, I really didn’t put together why the monkey was getting a straight razor. My fault. But then I totally forgot about him by this point. I mean, you know, almost 30 minutes or 40 minutes has passed, you know, since he got his mother. So, I that came out as a shock. I thought she was gonna call her sex again.

Craig:  I did too, but I liked that it was Inga. And so then Inga and Jennifer have a nice little reunion, and this is the scene where Jennifer Connelly got bit. I guess apparently the, the monkey kept, like, turning around so that its back was to the camera, And, Argento didn’t want to film the monkey’s butt, you know, for that whole scene. So An

Todd:  ugly butt.

Craig:  He told yeah. He told Jennifer to put her hand on the monkey to try to stop it from turning around. Well, that pissed the monkey off and it bit her finger off. And they had to take her to the hospital, yeah, and reattach it, but they did successfully reattach it. But then I guess the monkey was hostile towards her throughout the rest of the movie, which which would be kind of scary as an actress to have a hot dog monkey after you. Jeez. Especially such a young actress, but, you know, you suffer for your craft.

Todd:  Lose a finger. Lose a friend. And that’s it. I mean, that’s the end of the movie. And I gotta say, like

Craig:  I said, it sounds so silly and it is so silly, but there was something about it and I don’t know what it is. I think maybe a lot of it is

Todd:  Jennifer Tilly just because I

Craig:  like her so much. Jennifer Jennifer, I did it too. Jennifer Connelly. Right. Just because I do like Jennifer Tilly too. But Jennifer Connelly, I just like her so much. Even though she’s kinda bratty in some of this and even though her acting is certainly not Oscar worthy. I mean, she’s obviously very young, but she’s just got a presence and she’s got a charm and she’s so strikingly beautiful in such a unique way.

Clip:  She’s not

Craig:  a chore. She’s just fun fun to watch, and I liked the monkey.

Todd:  It’s always impressive. Like, this movie is pretty ambitious, actually, when you think about it. I mean, when you’re writing the script and you’re thinking about what you’re gonna have to film later, that you put a chimpanzee in this film and then a bunch of bugs that are, you know, flies and things that are gonna have to do all this stuff. It’s pretty ballsy, and he pulls it off really without a problem.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  It is pretty ballsy. I mean, there were some pretty impressive things that they did like that scene where the flies, attack the kid at the end. I guess that they brought in like thousands and thousands of fly larvae and they just waited for them to hatch. And when they all hatched they immediately called the actor to set, got him into costume and makeup. The the kid was played by a little person by the way, And they covered him in like glucose solution so that the flies would be attracted to him, and so he really was swarmed by all these real live flies. And once they had the footage, they got them all off of them, and they just released them out into the town. And apparently, like, these flies were a pest for the town for, like, the next several weeks. But, you know, that kind of thing, that’s that’s pretty ambitious in the days before CGI when you had to go practical and, it looked good and, I don’t know. I I think that this is a movie that would probably be polarizing. I think that some people are really gonna appreciate its kind of unique charm and other people are just gonna think it’s really stupid.

Todd:  Yeah. I think part of why I like it so much is I just thought it was beautiful to watch. I mean Yeah. We already talked about how nice it is to watch, Jennifer, but, honestly, the cinematography is gorgeous. Every scene just and and our gender just has this way. You know, when you watch horror movies, you get used to seeing a lot of dark and grungy and, you know, scenes that aren’t really crafted, that aren’t well lit, and things like that. In this, there are colors, and it’s well lit, and it’s just crisp and clean, and it just it looks like it was shot yesterday, you know, by a guy who really cared about every image he was putting up on the screen. That’s one of the reasons I just I just enjoy watching his movies so much that I’m willing to overlook the ridiculousness of so much of it because, like I said, I just don’t think he cares about the plot.

Craig:  I I totally agree with you, and the more of his movies that I see, the more that I appreciate his craft. I mean, he’s really skilled at what he does, and it is, you know, it it’s artful, and that reads very much on the screen. I really like it. Apparently, in 2001, there were talks of doing a sequel to this movie, but Argento couldn’t do it. I guess it conflicted with the contract that he was under with whatever studio he was with, and so, it never happened, which is probably okay. But anyway, we’ll probably not be seeing Phenomena 2 anytime in the near future. But, you

Todd:  know, it’s it’s an interesting little movie.

Craig:  I’m I’m glad we watched it, you know. It’s it’s kind of odd and different and different than the things that we’ve been watching lately, so I I had a good time.

Todd:  Yeah. I did too. I’d I’d recommend this movie, but you gotta it feels really long. Just there are moments at which it’s really feel slow, and so you’ve gotta watch it at a moment where you’re in the mood for that kind of movie. You’re not gonna be impatient, Yeah.

Craig:  Don’t watch

Clip:  it when you’re when it’s, you know, I don’t know, coming on midnight, and you you gotta finish watching this film

Todd:  for a podcast. Yeah. That was my mistake. Yeah. Well, thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Google Play, iTunes, and Stitcher, anywhere your favorite podcasts are. You can also find us on Facebook where we have a page there. Like us there. Share this with a friend. Please let us know what you think of the podcast, what films you’d like us to see next. And also, if you visit our website, which is linked from there as well, you can see some written reviews of horror movies too that we post every Thursday. Until next time. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Jordan Peele made an unlikely turn from comedy to horror with this surprise hit that pushed all the right buttons. It’s a suspenseful, timely, well-made, and absolutely chilling story of a black man who goes to meet his white girlfriend’s family for the first time.

For this episode, once again we are joined by regular guest, Jordyn, to discuss the social and racial overtones and undertones as any good English major can.

Episode 111, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd.

Craig:  And Todd, we have a special guest, Jordan. Jordan is with us this week. She is on her winter break from school, and, we’ve been trying to get her back on the podcast for while now, and, we finally were able to hook up. This movie, I I guess, Jordan, you didn’t technically pick this movie, but this is one of the ones that you requested we do, so I figured it would be suiting for, us to do it when you were on the show. Why why this movie? What the movie we’re doing is 2000 seventeen’s Get Out, by the way.

Jordan:  I watched it a couple weeks ago. In my sociology class, we had to do, like, a film review and then analyze it, like, sociologically. So I was just bored at work one night, and I was like, oh, like, now is a good time to do this. So I watched so I was just like, I’ll pick any movie. I’m like, I haven’t seen Get Out in a while. So I watched it at work, and I was, like, looking at it from, like, a sociological lens. And, originally, when I watched it, I didn’t think it was that scary. Like, there were some, like, jump scares, but then, like, in the grand scheme of horror, it’s not exactly, you know, saw or hostile or anything like that. Right.

Clip:  And but then I

Jordan:  was analyzing it sociologically. I’m like, oh, like, this is actually kind of scary. Like Yeah. If you really think about it. And so I was like, you know, like, Todd and Craig should review this, and I’m really glad you guys asked me to review it with you.

Craig:  Well, we’re glad you’re here. It’s interesting that you say that you were asked to watch it for a class because I was just reading trivia about it, and apparently that’s a big thing now. You know, there are entire courses being set, or being, taught, on this movie and the issues that it addresses, which are primarily, racism and white privilege and, cultural appropriation and all kinds of things of that nature. And interestingly enough, I read that Jordan Peele, who is the writer and director of the movie, who’s really, you know, been around in Hollywood for a long time, but has been known for his comedic work. He was inspired to write this during the first during Obama’s first term when a lot of people were saying that, racism was dead, and it wasn’t it was a thing of the past. And, obviously, he didn’t believe that to be true, and so he was inspired to write this movie. But he was afraid that it wouldn’t be well received because people would not take it seriously because they they didn’t still see racism as being an issue in America. And so, it wasn’t until, late in Obama’s second term when things just started to go to the shithouse, that, that, this movie became very much appropriate again, and it was just timely in its release. And, that’s why it did very well. I mean, it was one of the highest grossing, films of 2017. It was filmed on a $5,000,000 budget. In the USA, it made 175,000,000 and worldwide, so far, it’s made 250,000,000. So this is a hugely successful horror movie, and, you know, I think rightfully so. You had seen it before. I had seen it before. Todd, this was your first time seeing it, wasn’t it?

Todd:  Yeah. It was. It was and and that’s just because I live in China. These guys we’re pretty limited in the fare that we get here in the theaters. It’s usually latest Hollywood blockbuster that’s generally very safe, you know? And even those, get edited a little bit for the the market over here. So, like, I didn’t even go see a alien, the latest alien movie, which I heard isn’t that great anyway. It came to the theater here, and, I didn’t even go see it because I heard that there are a couple scenes that were edited out, and the alien was trimmed, and I don’t know. They they tried to cut the violence out of a little bit, I guess. But, anyway, tangent. The yeah. No. I didn’t get to see Get Out. So, this was my first time, and I don’t know. I’m pretty jealous both you, and Jordan seem to have a pretty cool work environment where you guys are just sitting around watching movies all day.

Craig:  Not all day, Todd.

Todd:  Oh, no. I’m sorry. Half the day. Maybe at least 2 hours.

Jordan:  Yeah. Craig, I remember a lot of movies in your class, so don’t. Hey.

Craig:  Come on. I’m not even telling my secrets. Throw me under the bus. Dang. I’m interested to see, what both of you thought of it, but I’m particularly interested to hear what Todd thought of it because when I saw it the first time, I thought it was really good. I saw it in the theater and, you know, it was really tense and I was really kind of on the edge of my seat, And, watching it again today, I still really enjoyed it, but most of that tension was gone because I knew what was going to happen. Yeah. So its rewatch worthiness was kinda low for me. But, originally, I I was a huge fan.

Todd:  Yeah. I can see that. I I have to say that, you know, Jordan, you said it wasn’t that scary. For me, it was terrifying. I was on the edge of my seat Todd. And I don’t know if I was just in the mood. It was late at night. But I think what really got to me about it is I could, obviously, not personally relate, but this is such, a domestic kind of horror film. And I’ve always felt that those are the scariest. Yeah. It it reminded me a lot of funny games in in the way that it made me feel, you know, and and and for, I think, for the same reasons. It’s this very domestic situation we could all find ourselves in. It’s things that normally happen to about everybody at some point or another, and it starts to get creepy in the way that you hope these situations will never get creepy. And this as soon as you see it starting to get creepy and you know you’re watching a horror movie, you’re like, oh my gosh, and you’re just shouting the title of the film at the at the film. Get out, dude.

Craig:  Get out.

Jordan:  Right?

Todd:  But but it starts very innocuously with, you know, his visit and the comments that people are making, are very typical. And I’m sure we’ll get into this, but they’re very typical comments that, are made every day that you sort of cringe at, but you know that the reason you’re cringing is because there’s something sinister beneath the surface here. And I think what’s terrifying about it is it brings up the possibility that there’s more than just casual racism underneath these things. And I’m sure Sure. You know, that’s exactly what he was going for. But to me, just because it was so everyday, not from my personal experience, but I know for a lot of people’s experience, I have been in situations where people are treated in the way that he’s treated. That, that it just it just I I I spent the whole time trying to figure out what the heck was going on and and that in itself, just the unknown, was really

Craig:  spooky. Yeah. I think so Todd. And you say, you know, it’s experiences like we’ve all had, those kinds of uncomfortable experiences, meeting a partner’s parent for the first time, those kinds of things. I can only imagine, I can’t speak from experience, but I can only imagine that people of color would probably appreciate this movie even more. Because they probably have found themselves in uncomfortable situations that are based on, you know, racial tension and maybe seemingly harmless casual racism. But, you know, as we all know, no racism is is harmless. And, I think that, that’s that’s kind of what he’s trying to explore here through horror, but also through some comedy too, which, I appreciated.

Todd:  Which I really appreciated because Yeah. I wanted those scenes to come. Like, when it would come up, I I got a break. I mean, I literally this is one of those horror movies where I really appreciated the comic relief because I really needed the break from the tension.

Craig:  And the comic relief

Jordan:  was all Rod. And Rod is such a genius character. And I remember watching this for the first time, with my aunt and uncle. And my aunt really is not into scary movies, and my uncle is just kind of, like, neutral about them. But, like, I would look over and they would just be crying during Rod’s scenes because they were it was so funny.

Craig:  They are hilarious. Rod is the best friend of our main character who’s named Chris. Chris is played by a guy who I’ve never heard of before, Daniel Kaluuya. And Rod is played by a man named Lil Rel Howery. And he really is just really funny. And, Jordan Peele, the director, the writer director, said that he wanted to include character of Rod because he wanted, somebody likable and and somebody relatable, and and to give the viewers a little bit of respite from the tension. And I, yeah, I mean he’s one of my favorite parts of the movie. And he just kind of pops in and out. But it’s cleverly paced so that, you know, he’s not popping in all the time with quirky remarks. It’s just, you know, every once in a while, Chris will give him a call on the phone and they’ll have funny conversations. But it’s a good balance, I think.

Todd:  It is. And it really, toes a line, I think. I was worried that the character of Rod, would would almost delegitimize the movie in a way. That he would be so off the wall goofy that after a little while, I’d be feeling like I was watching another Key and Peele sketch. And I think that it just hit that edge without going overboard Todd be funny without seeming so, you know, over the top unrealistic, parody.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the story really is pretty simple, but to establish the tone, there’s this opening scene, where you’ve got a black guy walking down the street at night, in what seems to be like a nice suburban neighborhood, and he’s looking, it seems like he’s lost. Like he’s not really sure where he’s going. Like he’s got a destination in mind, but he can’t find it. And all of a sudden very ominously this little white car, drives by and makes a u-turn in the road and starts following him. And, he at first kind of tries to ignore it, but the car doesn’t go away. So he turns around and starts walking the other way. But when he looks back over his shoulder, the car is parked and the door is open. And then all of a sudden he’s ambushed from behind by a figure in dark, and this guy, we assume, is wearing a helmet, like a a knight’s helmet, and, he, attacks this black man and throws him into the back, of this stark white car. You know, there’s lots of, lots of color imagery, going on in the movie, as well there should be. And then we get the, title sequence, and then we meet we meet our main characters.

Jordan:  And during can I just say, like, during that scene when the guy that we later figure out is Andre Hayworth, when he gets kidnapped, the car the song that’s playing is Run Rabbit Run? Uh-huh. How sinister is that? Yeah. Like, I didn’t pay attention to that until, like, the second time I saw the movie. I’m like, oh, like, that’s really creepy.

Craig:  Yeah. There’s really good use of music in the whole movie.

Todd:  And also, it’s a situation get another one of those situations. I don’t care what color you are. You can relate to this. Right? How many times

Clip:  have

Todd:  you walked down a neighborhood and got this feeling that this that there’s a car that might be following you? Yeah. And turn around, and then if that car turns around too, you know, it’s like, oh my gosh, I’m totally screwed. That is the start of, of many suburban nightmares.

Clip:  Sure.

Todd:  And that got me in the beginning. I was like, oh, this poor guy.

Craig:  Yeah. He said that he was inspired, that scene was inspired by Halloween and how it was just kind of taking what we usually consider as being a really safe place like, you know, a white suburban neighborhood and just showing that, you know, there’s potentially peril around every corner. And it does a good job of establishing that suspense. I mean, this is a really suspenseful movie. But then we get introduced to our main characters. Like I said, Chris is the young, good looking African American man. Strangely enough, Jordan Peele had Eddie Murphy in mind for this role.

Clip:  What?

Craig:  Originally. What?

Clip:  You’ve got to be kidding me.

Craig:  He wrote it with Eddie Murphy in mind. In fact, the whole movie was inspired, in part by, one of Eddie Murphy’s stand up routines where he was talking about horror movies and he didn’t understand why stupid white people didn’t just immediately leave when things started going bad in like haunted house movies. Yeah.

Jordan:  That’s funny because now it’s called Get Out.

Clip:  Right. Right. He said that he told

Craig:  or no. I think this is from Murphy’s stand up. He said, If me and my wife ever go house hunting and we walk in and a ghost whispers to me to get out, I’m getting out. You’re not gonna have to tell me twice. But anyway, we meet Chris and, we see he’s got this really nice apartment and he’s got these big photo prints hanging all over and we find out that he’s a photographer. And he’s got a girlfriend, a beautiful girlfriend, Rose, played by Allison Williams from Girls and various other things. And what’s happening is that they are going to her family’s house to introduce him to her parents for the first time.

Clip:  Do they know I’m do they know I’m black? No.

Jordan:  Should they?

Clip:  It seems like it’s something you might wanna, you know, mention. Mom and dad, my, my my black boyfriend will be coming up this weekend, and I

Jordan:  just don’t want you to be shocked

Clip:  that he’s a black man from black. So I was the first black guy you ever dated. Yeah. So what? Yeah. So it’s his uncharted territory for him. You know, I don’t wanna get chased off the lawn with a shotgun. You’re not going to. First of all, my dad would have voted for Obama a third time if he could have. Like, the love is so real.

Craig:  You get the sense that she’s kind of this doughy eyed idealist who really believes that, oh, you know, that’s not anything we need to discuss. We’re progressive.

Jordan:  That scene was such a red flag for me, though, because it’s revealed later that they’ve been together, like, 4 months.

Clip:  Uh-huh. So if

Jordan:  you’ve been with someone 4 months, usually, they’re on Facebook with you and, like, your parents kinda know who they are. And so if your partner has, like, no Facebook presence with you or anything like that, then, obviously, like, it’s 2016. Like, something’s up. You know? Yeah.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah.

Jordan:  Is that not weird? Like, if I were Chris, I’d be like, Rose, like, you’re weird. Like, I’ll be like ashamed of me. Like, what is wrong? So shouldn’t that be a red flag? Or, I mean, I guess, like, going into a relationship, you don’t expect that you’re gonna be, like, kidnapped by your partner’s family. So I

Clip:  would, like

Todd:  It depends, though.

Jordan:  I would think it would be weird.

Craig:  You know that’s funny because I hadn’t thought about that at all, but it actually makes a lot of sense in the long run. When they, are driving to her parents house, they hit a deer and it, you know, it beats up the front of their car and like he’s concerned because he can hear the deer still alive in the woods, and he shows compassion and like wants to go and look at it. And this kind of sets up some themes Todd. There’s a hit and run theme, you know, the the fact that he shows compassion for this injured animal and she doesn’t, all of this adds up in the end. But when the cops show up, they call the cops I guess, and the cops show up and they take her information, and then they ask, the cop asks for his ID. And Rose flips out and is like, you don’t need to see his ID, he wasn’t driving. And the cops like, well you know technically we have the right. And she’s like, well that’s bullshit. Now both times that I watched this I thought she’s doing, you know, she’s sticking up for him. You know, here she is this equal justice warrior or whatever. But I was reading stuff and, one of the spoilers that I read said that she wasn’t sticking up for him at all. She was avoiding a paper trail. If his name, if his name had been, listed in the report, then it would have been evident that he was with her at that time and she doesn’t want him, she doesn’t want people to know that because of what they plan to do. And so the whole Facebook thing, that makes sense. It would make sense that she, he wouldn’t have any presence on her social media, because that would cause red flags.

Todd:  She would have a presence on his. I mean, she couldn’t avoid that, could she? I don’t know.

Craig:  I don’t know. You would think not. Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, ultimately, it’s all kind of implausible, but it’s a good story anyway. Yeah. So then they get to the house and it’s always, it’s not like I’ve done it a whole bunch of times, I’ve been with the same person for 20 years, but it’s awkward when you meet the parents for the first time. And it is this time too.

Todd:  You know, he he kinda takes a shortcut here though. He deals with this this the very first meeting in a very interesting way. In that they pull up to the house and they drive by, and there’s a groundskeeper. And I just had to laugh at the, like, the horror trope of the groundskeeper who slowly turns toward the cars and goes to the house. But, you know, they pulls up, and as they get out of the car and they go onto the porch, it actually the camera pulls away considerably. And so when we see them meet each other, what we’re mostly doing is hearing them and not seeing their expressions. And, it’s a very normal seeming meeting, but the way that the camera pulls out and this this house kind of imposes over, you know, the scene, it it really gives you a very detached feeling from the very beginning. I thought it was an interesting technique, I’ve never really seen this before. You would think because this seems to be the crux of the film, right, that this meeting of between him and the parents at the very beginning when he when they open the door and he walks up, would be a scene. You know? Mhmm. But it’s treated as just background in a way. Like, well, we gotta we gotta plow through this to get to inside the house. I thought that was a really interesting choice.

Craig:  Well, they’re they’re nice to him, but it’s in that okay. Well, so first of all, the parents are played. The dad’s name is Dean, and he’s played by Bradley Whitford. I love Bradley Whitford. He’s been doing movies since the eighties. He’s a really, really funny guy, but he can be he can be kind of a a Todd presence as well. And then the mom’s name is Missy, played by Catherine Keener, also a fantastic actress. You know, it’s almost surprising that he was able to get such strong people in his directorial debut, but great casting. And they’re welcoming, you know, they get, they kind of force him into hugs and, but it’s awkward. You know, it’s probably how my dad would be if I brought home a black guy. You know, like the dad kinda starts, like, jive talking a little bit. Yeah.

Clip:  And there was that conversation about the deer. Well, you know what

Jordan:  I say?

Clip:  Deal. No. I don’t mean to get on my high horse, but I’m telling you, I do not like the deer. I’m sick of it. They’re taking over. They’re like rats. They’re destroying the ecosystem. I see a dead deer on the side of the road. I think to myself, that’s a start. I don’t even understand that. I’m just saying. You know what? I am grateful for what you’ve done today. I don’t like We got that.

Jordan:  Like, I’m an English major, so, like, I analyze everything now because I just have to.

Clip:  Right.

Jordan:  And so I was analyzing that. I’m like, what if, like, that is, like, a metaphor for black people? So I thought the deer conversation was this metaphor of how, like, they’re taking a couple of black people at a time and may, like, turning them, like, not necessarily white, but, like, a common talking point is, like, why can’t black people just act normal? And why can’t they just act right? As in, like, act white. So they’re, you know, just taking a couple and then, you know, eventually they’ll take on all of them or something like that.

Craig:  Oh, absolutely. And, you know, black men were often referred to as bucks. Buck in words. So, yeah. I think that it, it definitely is intentional. And yeah, I mean that’s just it. You can tell almost from the beginning that there’s something sinister going on, but it really kept me on the edge of my seat because though I knew something bad was happening, I didn’t really understand what it was. You know like there’s there’s these weird things going on where like so the the at this house, they have 2 servants. They have Walter who is the groundskeeper, black man, and they have Georgiana who is like the housekeeper, and she’s of course a black woman. And they just act strangely. They they kind of act like black people were portrayed in movies in the thirties, you know, like Gone With the Wind, Mammy type stuff.

Jordan:  I think, like, part of the reason why you find it weird and, like, you know, like, there’s something sinister going on, but, like, you can’t, like, pinpoint it is because we all 3 of us are white. So, like, we’re watching it through a white lens. And so, you know, we see, like, this casual racism. It’s like, oh, like, okay. Like, it’s weird, but they don’t mean anything by it.

Craig:  Right.

Jordan:  And so, you know, Jordan Peele went at it with this with the lens of, like, a black person where casual racism, you know, we may not think anything of it, but, you know, it actually is, like, more sinister than just, like, off the cuff remarks.

Todd:  Yeah. There’s always Absolutely. There’s something behind it. You know? There’s there’s something deep in your psyche that’s out of behind these remarks, right, when they come out. And and it’s interesting. I mean, there’s there’s a whole laundry list of them. And and later, there’s a party at this house where, other guests come. It’s it’s, like, for their grandfather or something.

Jordan:  Her grandfather, like, every year had had the party, and so then after he died

Todd:  Oh, they continued Todd

Jordan:  died quotations. They Right. Continued to have the party.

Todd:  And it’s all white people at this party, but we get kind of oh, it’s almost a montage for a little while of remarks being made at him that you’re just cringing at, but are, again, more remarks that are made all the time

Craig:  in my opinion. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, do you see it as an advantage or a disadvantage to be a person of color in today’s world? Like, you know, you’re asking this one black guy surrounded by all these white, old white people, like so tell us what it’s like to be black. Like, man. It’s rough. But even, and there’s way more creepy stuff going on. I wanna come back to that party. But the other huge red flag for me was the very first time that Chris and Rose and Missy and Dean all sit down together. Dean observes that Chris is fidgety.

Clip:  You smoke, Chris? You jonesing a little bit over? I’m quitting. Dad, this is why I don’t bring people to the house anymore. That’s okay. We’re not judging. It’s a nasty habit though. You should have Missy take care

Todd:  of that for you. How?

Clip:  Hypnosis. She developed a method, and I’m telling you, it works like a charm.

Craig:  That Todd me was such a huge red flag. No, lady. You’re not gonna hypnotize me. I literally met you like 5 minutes ago. No, it’s not gonna happen. But she does anyway. And that’s the other thing, like, now I’m not gonna pretend to be an expert on hypnotism, but one of the, you know, one of the things that I do know about it, because I have read some stuff about it, is that it’s entirely completely unethical to hypnotize somebody against their will or without their knowledge.

Clip:  I

Jordan:  mean this isn’t the most ethical situation anyway.

Craig:  Of course, of course. But it speaks to her character that she would do this, which she does because he goes out for a cigarette and he sees some weird things like, the groundskeeper comes running at him full speed and then right as he gets to him, he turns off and veers off and runs away. Just weird, crazy stuff. But then he goes in and she sits him down and she starts asking him all these personal questions. You know, he’s like, You’re not gonna hypnotize me or something. Basically what she gets out of him is that he thinks of hypnotism very much in the way that most of us do. You know, the pendulum and you’re getting very sleepy and she kind of teases him about that. But then she also very casually says, sometimes we do use visual cues Todd audio cues or something along those lines. Meanwhile, she’s very methodically stirring her tea. And, as she continues to ask him questions, you can just tell that he’s falling into hypnosis. And eventually, he is fully hypnotized and she is in control of him, and it’s scary.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s really scary how that could happen, you know, whether or not it’s real or not. It’s an moment when you notice suddenly that the tea is being stirred in this very methodical, repetitive way, and that audio comes in very slowly. Then we get a shot of the tea being stirred, and you’re like, Oh my gosh, this is her cue for him that she’s creating, and this is what’s what’s slipping him under the spell. Again, another moment where this I I don’t know. You know, it’s presented anyway in a way that this could conceivably happen in a normal everyday circumstance in a place that’s supposed to be safe. Right?

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  Right. In in a living room.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, she lulls him into kind like, she gets into his subconscious by talking about his mom. And his mom had died and he doesn’t have a father, which is also ideal for them because he’s not really connected to people. But as it turns out, his mother was killed in a hit and run and she gets him talking about that and talking about, and I think that she plays into his feelings of guilt because he was home. He was a child, but he was home and he was expecting her, and when she didn’t come home he didn’t do anything. He didn’t go out and look for her or anything like that, and she really kind of drives that home. Like you didn’t do anything, you did nothing. And so then he’s fully into hypnosis and, she says, Now sink into the floor. And he does. Like his consciousness falls into like this nether region where he’s just kind of floating in space. And it’s really cool imagery because he’s just in this vast emptiness, but you can see like a cutout or a box up above him what he would be seeing through his eyes. And he’s just floating there and she says, You’re now in the sunken place. At which point, I think that he jolts up in bed, as though this had all been a dream. And at least for a minute, he thinks it might have been, but it becomes very clear. In fact, they don’t really go out of their way to hide the fact that he has been hypnotized, and he’s not smoking anymore.

Todd:  Yeah. And now isn’t it just for a moment, let’s stop and think about how hypnosis is usually treated in films. Right? It’s usually very cheesy, very corny, and it has the ability it’s risky to use something like that in a movie like this because I think we’re naturally a little skeptical about the power, and I think that the way that he filmed it to give you the feeling and the impression from the point of view of the hypnotized. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that before.

Craig:  I I I don’t think I have either, but it’s haunting.

Todd:  It’s very haunting, and it was and it really pulls you in. I mean, almost literally pulled me in as well. I I felt that, this was really skillfully done the way that it drops him out of that dream through the floor, and suddenly he’s falling. Everything’s a little slow motion, and then what he’s seeing through his eyes is from a distance. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And and like a like a little movie playing in front of him, which right away sets up how we are going to be thinking about the other hypnotized people in this movie and what their reality must be like every single day.

Craig:  Yes. And Jordan Peele said that he, came up with this concept of the sunken place because he feels that many people of color or minorities or whatever often find themselves in that position where they’re aware and of of what’s going on. They see the things that are going on around them, but they feel powerless to affect any change, or to do anything about it. And as a metaphor, gosh, that’s pretty pretty darn on the nose.

Todd:  Yeah. It even reminded me a little bit of the serpent and the rainbow, and I got I was really interested in this at one point when I was studying African American religions in in school, and I was, studying voodoo. This concept of the you know, we’ve talked about this before, but the concept of the zombie has its roots in Haitian folklore, but also Haitian religion. And the fact that there really are these cases of zombieism, and it’s really nothing more than tied to your belief in the fact that you can be a zombie is so strong that you literally become 1. You know? You you don’t die. You basically awaken, and you allow somebody else to have complete control over you because you believe that they’ve made you into a zombie. And so these people too would be in their sunken place, and I feel like that’s really interesting considering that that also, you know, we’re talking about a movie that deals with race, a different culture, and the black experience in America that there are some little nods to that as well, using hypnosis in this way to turn these people in the household into these effectively like Haitian voodoo zombies who can just go around and be servants for people, but not willingly.

Craig:  Yeah. And it’s it’s really creepy, and it gets even creepier when we get to that party that you had talked about. You know, all these people show up. They’re all old, rich, white people arriving in black cars and wearing black clothes. I think there’s something to be said there.

Jordan:  I found that so odd. Like, they all just showed up at once. Like, I thought it was a little cheesy.

Todd:  It was weird. Sinister.

Jordan:  Before that, though, Chris went out and talked to the groundskeeper.

Todd:  Right.

Jordan:  And that scene is probably, like, one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie, because it’s so odd just to see him talk like that.

Clip:  ‘Sup, man? Working your good out here, Nothing I don’t want to be doing. Yeah. I didn’t get to meet you, actually, up close. I’m Chris. I know who you are. She is lovely, isn’t she? Rose? Here she is. 1 of a kind, top of the line, a real doggone keeper. Right?

Jordan:  Then he was like, well, I’m gonna go back to minding my own business now. And that makes me laugh so hard because it’s so petty.

Craig:  Yeah. Like like, I’m going to go back to minding my own business. Maybe you should follow my lead. Yeah.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah.

Craig:  It’s good. And he’s acting weird, and Georgiana acts weird too. They’re just it’s just weird.

Clip:  They

Craig:  they’re just bizarre.

Todd:  He can’t hurt his finger. Situation. Right? They’re just Absolutely. Like robots steering. They’re speaking in the ways that not just and I thought initially when they were doing this, it it seemed like he’s trying to relate to them on an African American level and kind of relax and kinda kinda bro it up, you know, in a way with them. But they are absolutely speaking what we would consider, you know, they are like white. Right? Totally. And so they’re they’re speaking with this this kind of diction and these words that at first I’m thinking, okay, they’re code switching, you know, which is a very common thing. I have a number of black friends, and I noticed that they act differently around me. You know, they speak differently around me than when they speak around their black friends. It’s a linguistic phenomenon. We all do it at some level. We all speak differently, with our friends and code switch. And the fact that he wasn’t code switching, I thought, oh, that was interesting. I wasn’t sure what it meant, but it becomes clearer in retrospect. Right? When I

Jordan:  was watching it the second time, I was just, like, thinking to myself, like, white people don’t talk like that. Like, white people don’t don’t act like that in a way. Like, white people, like, don’t act like that, but at the same time, like, they totally do.

Craig:  Well, yeah. I mean, and it’s not just stereotypically white, but it’s also just kind of old fashioned, like,

Todd:  which

Craig:  ends up making sense. Yes. But like at one point, he realize he keeps realizing that his cell phone is unplugged. Like he keeps plugging it in, and then the next time he goes back to it, it’s unplugged. And at some point, he confronts Rose, and he says, Georgiana’s doing this. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because she likes me. He all the time thinks people are like down to jump his bones or something, but Well well,

Todd:  in that case though, he said, no, he said maybe she’s mad that you’re with me. That’s a thing.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  So I don’t think it was that she liked him. I think it was that, it’s kind of a thing that, African American women can be ticked off what an African American guy is with a white girl.

Craig:  Right. But, when he doesn’t confront Georgiana about it, but she comes and apologizes. It seems like she’s been sent to apologize. But he says something like, I didn’t mean to snitch, and she doesn’t get it. And he’s like, I didn’t mean to rat you out and she still doesn’t get it and she’s like, oh you mean tattletale? And he’s like, okay, yeah. Yeah. So it’s just Todd, you know, they’re just not acting right, you can just tell. And then there’s this party where it’s so uncomfortable, at first it doesn’t seem particularly unrealistic. It’s almost like, oh look, our daughter’s dating a Black guy, let’s go around and show everybody how cool we are with this. Which sadly happens, and then all of the friends are like, oh yeah, we’re totally down with black people, you know? But it becomes very apparent that he’s cattle, you know? Like, they’re parading him around in front of these people.

Clip:  Oh, look. It’s the greens. Gordon and Emily, this is Chris. Chris, this is Gordon and Emily Green. Chris, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Chris. Nice to meet you indeed. Oh, that’s quite a grip. Thank you. You too, man. You, you ever play golf? Once. A few years ago. I wasn’t very good. Gordon was a professional golfer for years. Oh, you kidding? Well, I can’t quite swing the hips like I used to though. But, I do know Tiger. Oh, that’s great. Super.

Jordan:  Gordon loves Tiger.

Clip:  Oh, best I’ve ever seen ever. Hands down. So, Chris, let let’s see your form. Tereskin has been in favor for the past, what, couple of 100 of years, but now the pendulum is swung back. Black is in fashion.

Craig:  1 old woman walks up to him and, like, starts feeling him up, like, feeling his arms and chest.

Jordan:  Ask Rose if it’s true that like black men are better in bed. Right. That was like so uncomfortable.

Craig:  They’re sizing him up and you feel weird and awkward about it the first time you see it. The second time knowing what’s going on, it’s so sinister and so gross. Like they are, they’re literally treating this man as a piece of meat. I mean, there’s there’s no other way to put it.

Todd:  Which totally happens. And I mean, I I I’ve been in situations where my I’m I’m embarrassed for my friends because these kinds of things are happening to them, but to see it all piled on at one at one point in a dinner in a dinner party, I can totally believe that this would happen even when people are just coming to a party and going home and there’s nothing sinister.

Craig:  Overtly. Yeah. Exactly.

Todd:  So it really does it’s skillful. I mean, Jordan, you were talking about the sociological implications of this. I mean, this this thing is dripping with it.

Jordan:  Oh, yes. Go ahead, Jordan. Going on with the cattle metaphor later on at the end of the party, they have an auction. It’s like a cattle auction or a slave auction.

Clip:  Mhmm. And Yeah.

Craig:  And it’s it’s really creepy. It’s silent, and they’re just flashing these bingo cards, but

Jordan:  I mean Bradley Whitford is, like, punching his, like the only noise you hear is when, like, Bradley Whitford will, like, punch his palm, like, Todd sit like signal, like, moving up in price.

Craig:  Uh-huh. Yeah. It’s gross. And like that was just It’s so gross. And and that all happens while they’re away. Chris and Rose take a walk away because something, something else creepy happens at the party. Chris is excited because in the crowd he spots 1 black guy and he sees him from behind and based on the way that he, he can see that he’s black obviously, but he’s, he’s looking at the back of him and he walks up to him and he says something like, Nice to see an old brother here or something. He thinks it’s an old man. His posturing makes him look like, and what he’s wearing makes him look like an old man. But he turns around and he’s this young guy, like really young. And, so Chris tries to talk to him, but again it’s that same thing with Georgiana and, Walter where he’s just not acting right. Like he’s acting like an old person, and it should and then his wife shows up and his wife’s an old white lady and like they talk to each other like an old couple. It’s just weird. And at this point, I thought somehow they’re brainwashing these people. My thought was they’re they’re using hypnosis to brainwash these people to do whatever they want to do. Which is exactly the conclusion that Rod jumps to the very first time that he hears about anything going wrong.

Clip:  Yeah. Like, you know that white people like to kidnap people and turn

Jordan:  them into sex slaves. Right?

Clip:  So funny. Sex slaves, I told you.

Craig:  Oh, it’s so funny. But, at that point, I’m kind of thinking, I think Rod’s right.

Clip:  You know,

Craig:  I think that’s what they’re doing. Yeah.

Jordan:  Well, that particular one, considering that he has a wife that’s 30 years his senior.

Craig:  Yeah.

Clip:  Absolutely. And then he goes

Jordan:  on to say, we haven’t left the bedroom in months.

Clip:  Uh-huh. Ew. Gross. Yeah.

Craig:  Okay. So then I feel like we deal with the whole unplugging the phone thing or something. And then they come back out and all these white folks are standing around and that’s when somebody asks, you know, what’s it like to be black in America? And, Chris spots the other black guy who he had talked to before, and he says, maybe you can help me out with this. And the guy’s like, oh, I don’t know. You know, I don’t get out very much anymore. And, secretly, or at least he’s trying to do it secretly, Chris is lining up his cell phone to take a picture of this guy, and he does the same thing that I’ve done so many times and forgets to turn off the flash when you’re trying to take a sneaky pic. And, all these sneaky pics

Todd:  you try to take, Craig?

Craig:  Don’t go there. Time. Take pictures

Todd:  of people, forget to take out the Flash.

Craig:  I totally do.

Todd:  We learn more about you every week, Craig.

Craig:  Yeah. I know. Can’t can’t

Clip:  can’t keep anything from you. But anyway, so

Craig:  the Flash goes off and this man, I don’t remember his name or if he had one, but he kind of freaks out. And you kind of see a change in his eyes and a change in his visage. And he runs up to Chris and screams at him, get out. And he’s, he grabs him and starts shaking him. And he’s like, get out of here. Run. Run away. And of course, they hurry that man away inside. And the next thing we see is him coming out of Missy’s office with her and she’s like, Oh, he’s better now. He’s got a touch of the epilepsy and the flash, caused a seizure, but he’s all better now. And, he’s back. This guy is back to acting the way he was before and they leave. And that’s when Chris says, or no, excuse me, Rose says, We’re gonna take a walk. And they go off, and take a walk together. And, and Chris wants to go. He’s like, I wanna get out of here. And she’s like, And just leave me here. And he’s like, Well that’s up to you. But then he says, You know, I love you. If you wanna stay, I’m gonna stay here with you. But she’s like, no, it’s fine. We can go. And and another thing, the reason the suspense was so high for me is because at this point, you can it’s so obvious. There’s no question in your mind that there’s something shady going on with the parents. But you wonder if Rose is in on it. Yeah. Because she really seems like a loving, doting girlfriend. I mean, she’s sweet and nice, and it really seems like they have a real connection.

Todd:  At this point, though, I I wrote down the girl is in on it because Well,

Craig:  she would have to be. It clicked with me

Todd:  that she would have to be. There’s no way couldn’t be, and and that’s the point in which it did click with me. As soon as I that possibility entered my head, I noticed a little bit about this conversation and how she was slightly a little manipulative here in giving into him at just the right moments and making suggestions at just the right moments. It’s very it became it was Calculated. Yeah. It was very calculated. It seemed and then I thought, oh my god. She’s done this before. That was the second thought that that gave into my head at that moment because I she felt she seemed so practiced at it.

Craig:  Well and if that’s the case, she’s really good at it. She is.

Clip:  She’s amazingly good at it.

Craig:  She had she had his him fooled. She had me fooled. I I guess that’s, you know good job, Allison Williams. You did a good job. Eventually, of course, we do find out that she’s in on it, and that’s coming up very soon. But, and then her entire demeanor changes.

Jordan:  Oh, yeah. And she honestly, like, turns out to be the worst character. And, like, she’s so cold and calculated. And going in, I didn’t really like her because I I’m a huge fan of Girls, and she played Marnie in Girls, and Marnie is like the worst character. So it was just like, I had a bias, but my bias was confirmed.

Craig:  Yeah, she’s, she, once it’s revealed that she’s in on it, which again is coming up very soon, her entire character changes. And, Jordan Peele coached her and said, I want you to think of this as 2 completely different characters. I want Rose to be truly a loving, supportive girlfriend and then when it switches, I want you to think of yourself as Roro, and she’s a totally different girl, and she is cold and and calculated, and and, I thought she it was great. It was a great shift in character.

Clip:  It was. Yeah.

Todd:  And it kind of plays into everyone’s fear in a way, but maybe even more so, you know, in this particular situation of an interracial couple and this tension that’s gonna naturally be there and the fears that he’s gonna naturally have about his acceptance into this family, that somebody’s putting on 2 faces. You know? They’re gonna be one way in front of you, but then behind their back with their kind, right, or their family. You know, it’s they’re only 4 months in, you know, that they’re treating or or speaking about you differently or they’re kind of a different person and you don’t know this yet. Again, it plays into that kind of fear as well.

Jordan:  Sure. Absolutely. Good observation, Todd.

Craig:  Don’t flatter him.

Clip:  Oh, you keep

Todd:  going, Jordan. We’re

Clip:  gonna hit everyone.

Craig:  Well, things from this point happen very quickly. Chris sends Rod the picture that he took, of the guy, and Rod calls him back immediately.

Clip:  That’s Craig. Drake. Andre Hayworth. You used to kick it with Veronica? Veronica from what? Teresa’s sister that worked at the movie theater on 8th. Yeah. Yes. That is him. Is him. But wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. This is so crazy. Yo. He’s different. No shit. Why is he dressed like that? It’s not dad. It’s everything. He came to the party with a white woman like 30 years old now. Sex slave. Oh, shit. Chris, you gotta get the fuck up out of there, man. You’re in some eye wash shit situation. Leave motherfucker.

Craig:  And and at at this point, Chris kind of thinks that might be the case. So he tells Rose, We’ve got to get out of here. He doesn’t explain why. So we gotta get out of here. And she’s like, Okay, I’ll go get my bag. And while she’s doing that, conveniently there’s this little cubby in her room that’s open. And for unknown reasons, he decides he needs Todd investigate

Clip:  it and he goes over there and he looks

Craig:  in, and he pulls out this red box. You’re not going to find something good in there. Find somebody’s secret red box,

Clip:  you just maybe leave it. But

Craig:  but in this case, it’s a good thing that he opened it because she had told him that he was the first black guy she had ever dated. And he finds in this box these pictures and at first they seem very normal just you know pictures of her with her friends. But then he comes to a series of pictures of her with a whole series of black guys. And the last one

Jordan:  One with, Georgina.

Craig:  Yeah. With Georgiana looking very modern and fun. And so he knows something’s up, but but he she comes back and and he’s like, let’s go. And they run downstairs

Jordan:  and That’s seen though, like, if you’re seeing that, how do you not know something’s up? Like, how do you still wanna get in the car with her? Like True. Seriously get out.

Clip:  But but

Todd:  the problem is is he can’t drive. Remember earlier with the cop, he didn’t have a license. He

Jordan:  didn’t have his license, didn’t he?

Craig:  No. It was a state ID. It wasn’t the license.

Todd:  Yeah. So he and she’s got the keys to the car. So she needs the keys and he you know, even with the keys, he’s not gonna be very helpful in this situation.

Craig:  True. So they go downstairs, and everybody’s left except the family is still there, and they’re all standing around kind of ominously. And they’re kinda like, what are you doing? Where are you going? And he’s trying

Clip:  to get

Jordan:  up against the door with a

Craig:  lacrosse lacrosse stick. Yeah. Stick. Yeah. He’s he’s been he was creepy from the beginning. He he keeps asking her. He’s like, come on. Where are the keys? Where are the keys? Meanwhile, Bradley Whitford goes off into some weird monologue about how we’re all humans, but we’re also gods. Like, really didn’t even understand what he was talking about. That was a

Todd:  that scene was all a bit contrived right there along with, you know, getting the the the box, finding the box at just the right moment

Jordan:  to, not hide. Yeah.

Craig:  And so, finally, he says, Rose, where are the keys? And she pulls them out, and she’s like, you know, I can’t let you leave. And so that’s when, you know, everything’s out in the open except for why they’re doing this. He bolts, he bolts like he’s just gonna take off, and the mom just clinks her tea glass, and he just falls flat. Yep. Like she just drops him by clinking the tea glass. And when he wakes up, he’s strapped to this chair in a game room that we’ve never seen before. And there’s this old, like, 19 fifties console TV in front of him. And shortly after he wakes up, it comes on, and it’s like it it looks like a commercial for, like, a drug or something. And I guess ultimately that’s kind of what it is. It’s kind of welcome to what we’re going to do to you.

Jordan:  Yeah. Yeah. Like, very obviously a medical commercial.

Craig:  Right. But it’s the it’s the grandpa, the supposedly dead grandpa, and he goes around and he’s like, you know, we’ve been trying to develop this, system for years. It’s the Cortana process and finally we’ve perfected it and now you get to be a part of it. And this stuff didn’t make it into the movie but Jordan Peele actually had a backstory for this whole group, not just this family but the whole group of people, the party goers. They’re like from this ancient group of knights and it was the knights who were requesting for the fountain, or not the fountain of youth, excuse me, the holy Craig. And these generations have continued to pursue immortality and now they’ve finally done it and this is how they’re doing it. And, what? Well,

Jordan:  I need to include that because that’s dumb.

Craig:  It’s it’s a little out of scope. Yeah.

Clip:  That’s what I’m waiting

Craig:  for. But so he sees that, and and we see that Bradley Whitford and the wife and the kids, although they’re little kids, are in the video. So obviously they’ve been a part of this for years years years. Once that video goes off, a video of the teacup, comes back up and it clinks, and he passes back out. There’s

Jordan:  a video with the grandpa though. You can kind of, like, see that they’re doing it, like, for, like, racist motives. Like, it’s like they’re not overtly racist, but, like, during the party when they’re feeling them up and, like, treating them like cattle, like, it’s kind of like, okay, like, that’s odd. But then in the video, the grandpa’s like, well, you’ve enjoyed, like, such physical advantages. And that kind of I feel I felt like that went back to when, in the beginning, Dean was talking about how his dad lost to go to the Olympics, against Jesse Owens. And so, like, maybe his entire life, he just thought black people were stronger than he was. And so that’s why they do this to black people, even though the one guy that was going to go into Chris’s body was like, I it’s not because you’re black. I just want eyesight.

Craig:  Right. Well, it’s it’s I mean, I think it’s a pretty obvious commentary on, cultural appropriation. You know, these these people, they don’t like black people

Todd:  As they are.

Craig:  As they are, but they’re in other ways envious. They’re envious of their physique, you know, they’re envious of their Coolness. Athletic ability. Yeah, their coolness.

Todd:  They say that.

Craig:  Sadly, you know, that’s part of the real world where often black people are denied privileges and advantages, but white people are more than happy to appropriate their music and their clothing and style and all those things.

Todd:  Cheer for them on a sports

Craig:  team. Yeah. Right. Right. So then the next thing is he had met a guy at the party that we didn’t talk about who, is blind. He’s an art dealer. He used to be an artist himself. He’s familiar with Chris’s work, and he says that he admires it. And he’s the one who won him in the auction. He pops up on the screen, and and they can converse because there’s a intercom. An intercom, right? And, he says this is part of your prep. First was, you know, the hypnosis, Now this is like mental prep. And basically what he explains is that they do brain tran partial brain transplant.

Clip:  White black people. Who knows? People wanna change. Some people wanna be stronger, faster, cooler. Black is in fashion. But don’t please don’t lump me into that. You know? I could give a shit what what color you are. You know? What I want is deeper. I want your eye, man. I want those things you see through.

Craig:  And what he says, which to me is the most horrifying component of all of this, is that because part of your brain remains, you’ll always be there, but you’ll be inside. You’ll be in the observance.

Jordan:  In the sunken place.

Craig:  Right. I I’ll be driving the car, and you’ll just be a passenger, and there’s nothing you’ll be able to do about it.

Clip:  So And

Craig:  that Todd me is the most nightmarish part of the whole thing. If you’re gonna do this to me, just frickin’ kill me. Yeah.

Jordan:  Yeah. Exactly.

Craig:  Don’t imprison me in my body and my mind while I to watch you go around acting a fool in my body. I’m glad you guys get so much, amusement at my expense. It’s fine.

Todd:  That’s great.

Clip:  What am I thinking of?

Todd:  I’m thinking of y’all gonna make me act a fool up in here.

Clip:  Up in here. Oh, god. Y’all gonna make me lose my cool

Craig:  It’s it’s always the highlight of the episode when Todd sings. I swear to god.

Clip:  Yeah. Like speaking of cultural appropriation and, like, John, you know what? Right.

Jordan:  Here we have Todd rapping. You say

Clip:  actin’ all. Very poor.

Craig:  Oh, come on. I’m I’m just cool like that. Yeah. Here in Midwestern Missouri, you know. So then, and I, when I say things happen really fast from this point on, I mean it. Like it’s boom boom boom boom boom. This time when he hears that message, he notices he’s been scratching at the arm of the Craig, and he notices the filling coming out of it. And I did not put this together at all. I read this, but he saves himself by picking cotton. Right? So we see we see the white blind guy getting prepped for surgery, and it’s pretty graphic and gross. Like, the dad is cutting off his scalp, and then he saws through his his skull. And so Jeremy, the gross son, goes in to get Craig, and Chris is still knocked out, or at least so we think, and, he, unstraps him, and then when he’s prepping the IV, Chris stands up behind him and hits him in the back of the head 3 times with a Bati ball, that would have killed him. Let’s just get that out of the way right now. In my notes, I write, and so Chris kills Jeremy. But Jeremy pops up again later, which absolutely makes no sense because he would have been dead.

Jordan:  All this all this is going on, like, Rod is going to the police and no one believes him. They’re loud. And that all seems hilarious. He calls Rose and she like, you see her face while she’s talking, and her face is completely blank and just, like, dead looking, but her voice has so much emotion. And she’s like, oh, my gosh. Like, I’m so worried about him. Like, he just left, and he took a cab and all this. And Rod knows she’s lying, but he can’t get her on a recorder.

Craig:  Yeah. Because she flips the script on him and makes it seem like he’s predatory, like he’s going after her or something. Yeah. So the dad, Bradley Whitford, realizes that Jeremy’s not coming back with Craig. So he goes out into the hall to look for him, at which point Craig attacks him with a mounted buck head. Great irony there. You know this guy that hates deer and wants them eradicated, he gets killed with this deer head. So Chris, runs upstairs and

Jordan:  Not after Bradley Whitford, like, crawls into the operating room and knocks over a candle that shouldn’t be in an operating room because there’s lights everywhere. What’s up? Like, that was too convenient. Like, I get that you’re trying to make it sinister, but why?

Todd:  Why are there candles? Yes. That’s a very good point.

Clip:  Well, you need the

Craig:  light. And the fire doesn’t really play any role. It’s not like they’re battling it out in the flames or whatever. I think it was just like, if he’s going out, he’s burning it to the ground. You know, like we’re not just gonna leave this for them to keep doing it. Even though it was an accident, I think that was kind of what, you know, the whole legacy is burning. But he goes upstairs and, Georgina sees him, and she runs and takes off.

Jordan:  He goes, like, from the kitchen into the mom’s study. On the table is a glass of tea. And so then, they both eye the tea, and they run for it at the same time. But then Chris sweeps it off of the table, and it breaks. So then Katherine he and Katherine Keener kinda, like, walk around each other a little bit, like, you know, 2 lions getting ready to brawl. And so then she goes at him with a letter opener and stabs him through the hand, but then he turns it around and stabs her in the eye. And then he tries to leave the house, and Jeremy pops up again somehow. Like, this guy has, like, bionic levels of stamina, apparently. Oh, Lord Hades. Just been bludgeoned. Chris tries to leave the house, but then he it gets in a choke hold by Jeremy, and so he can’t leave the house. And then, so he opens the door, Jeremy kicks it shut, he goes through the door again, and Jeremy kicks it shut again. And this kind of, reflects back to the conversation they had at the dinner table on the night that Chris got there, and Jeremy’s being super weird. And he starts talking about MMA and how, like, Chris would be so good at jujitsu and stuff like that because of his genetic makeup. And he’s talking about jujitsu and how it’s all, like, mental. It’s not physical. And you always have to be 3 steps ahead. And so then, on Chris’s 3rd try to open the door, he knows Jeremy’s gonna go to kick it again, and he does, but then he stabs Jeremy in the leg, and then curb stomps him to death.

Craig:  Yeah. Which, and I’m I’m sitting there like, yes. Just stomp that guy, he’s horrible. So he runs out and he gets in the car. Meanwhile, Rose is just sitting upstairs listening to the Dirty Dancing soundtrack on her headphones, eating 1 Froot Loop at a time, scouting for other black guys on the Internet, which is obvious.

Jordan:  Is that what that was? She was looking up the n double a c’s or not the n double a c p, n c double a.

Clip:  Yeah. I always picked them up.

Jordan:  In that shot, if you look behind her, all of the photos with her and her, like, victims are framed and hung up on the wall.

Craig:  I know. It’s super spooky. She’s a psycho.

Clip:  Well, it’s like a

Todd:  it’s like a stunted child. You know? She’s she’s like, never left that child that we see in the video, that was playing on the TV. Right? She’s eating these Froot Loops.

Jordan:  Yeah. She’s sitting crisscross applesauce.

Clip:  Yeah. It’s

Jordan:  And she looks like a child today would be, like, playing with her iPad.

Craig:  Yeah. Absolutely.

Jordan:  Like, separating the Froot Loops from the milk thing. I watched an interview with Jordan Peele, and he was reading Reddit theories about the movie. And so one of them said that she’s separating the whites from the coloreds, and so then Jordan Peele was like, no. Actually, it’s just to show how, like, creepy and calculated and cold she is. But still, like, that, like

Clip:  Yeah. Color of cereal. Yeah. It’s a good

Craig:  theory whether it’s true or not.

Clip:  It fits. Yeah. Yeah.

Craig:  Chris runs outside and he’s got the car keys and he jumps in, Jeremy’s white car that was the abducting car from the beginning. And he, takes off and Georgiana jumps in front of the car. And again, here it’s that hit and run thing again. You know, he he can’t leave her. You know, he was so sad that his mother died cold and alone. And so, and he remembers a time when he and Georgiana had been talking and a single tear had dropped from her eye, and she, he knows that she’s in there somewhere. And because of that, he feels compassion for her. And so he puts her in the car, and they start driving away.

Jordan:  Not to get out of the car,

Clip:  and not

Jordan:  to do it.

Craig:  Rose comes out on the car with a rifle and and starts shooting at them.

Jordan:  Which is, like, really reflective of what she said at the beginning of the film because she was talking to him about how her parents aren’t gonna freak out that he’s black and, like, chase him out of the house with a with a gun and then she’s chasing him out of the house with a gun.

Craig:  Of course. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. That’s true.

Craig:  And Georgiana wakes up, and, we see now that the reason that all of these characters had had hats and specific hairstyles was because they’ve got these big scars from their brain transplants.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  But she wakes up and she freaks out, and she’s like, you destroyed my house. You destroyed my family. And and she starts beating on him, and so he crashes into a tree, and she’s dead and out of commission. When he comes back to consciousness, seemingly very quickly, he gets out and roses right behind him shooting at him. He takes off running and then here comes grandpa, the big black groundskeeper comes running by and she just says, Get him grandpa! And, Grandpa takes him down and it looks like it’s the end for Chris, but then he reaches into his pocket and he pulls out his camera and he flashes it in grandpa’s eyes, and we see that change like we had seen before. And it it’s good acting or good direction because you can see an immediate change of character.

Jordan:  In the same interview with Jordan Peele, he was talking about how in that scene when grandpa catches him, he was gonna, like, get him to the ground, and then the grandpa would be like, like, I finally got you, Jesse. And

Clip:  then, like, that’s no way. But then

Jordan:  Jordan feels like that’s a little much.

Todd:  You know, it just hit me of the foreshadowing of of the earlier conversation with the dad when the dad said, you you probably think it’s really weird. I I get it. It’s really weird that I have these black servants.

Clip:  We hired Georgina and Walter to help care for my parents. When they died, I just I I I couldn’t bear to let them go.

Todd:  Sure enough, all these years, they’ve continued to, quote unquote take care of them.

Craig:  Yep. Yep. It falls together really nicely. I mean It really does. Is it plausible? No. But it’s fun, and it’s it’s it’s a well crafted story. But anyway, so, grandpa changes at least momentarily, and he turns to Rose and he’s like, Let me do it. And so she hands him the rifle, but he turns it on her and shoots her in the abdomen and then he puts the barrel under his chin and kills himself. Rose, meanwhile, is still alive and she’s crawling towards the rifle, but Chris gets to it first and throws it away from her. First, she starts trying to talk nice to him like, I love you. You know, like she’s acting again, which he would have to be really, really stupid to fall for that at this point. Yeah. No kidding. He starts he’s he’s choking her like he’s gonna kill her, but again, I think it’s just his compassion won’t allow him to do that, and so he eases up. And, she smiles like, I got you or whatever. And then the cop car shows up, and these red and blue lights are flashing. And I the my first thought in the theater was, Oh, no. This is not gonna look good for him. The house is

Todd:  burning down. All the evidence is gonna be gone.

Craig:  It’s gonna be her word against his, and we see how our justice department works. And that’s, I I thought things were not gonna go well. But who steps out of the car? Rod. TSA. TSA. So they get in the car together and Rod just says, I mean I told you not to go into that house. And they basically drive away and leave her there to die. But then

Jordan:  Chris is like, how did you find me? He’s like, I’m TSA. We handle shit. And then they drive off.

Craig:  So funny. They filmed an alternate ending where in fact it was the real cops who showed up. Chris wasn’t shot, but he was taken to jail, and Rod could not give them any hard evidence, to help Chris’s case, and it was just implied that he would probably spend the rest of his life in jail. But Peele said that, in the climate when the movie was released, he felt like the audience deserved a happier ending than that. And so that’s why they went with the ending that they went with. And I really like the ending. I’m glad that, you know, he went through a lot of stuff, but he came out of it. Hopefully, things will be okay. Overall, I think it’s a really well made movie, especially now again, like I said, it’s he’s been working in the industry for a long time. But for this being his directorial debut, you know, Oscars and stuff.

Clip:  I, I know that

Craig:  it was nominated for like, you know, Oscars and stuff. I I know that it was nominated for, like, best musical or comedy at the Golden Globes or something like that, which, yeah. I have no idea.

Todd:  This is not a comedy.

Craig:  Yeah. They definitely classified it as a comedy. And I guess maybe they were afraid they wouldn’t be able to

Jordan:  get it. America would classify, like, the trials and tribulations that, like, black people face as, like, comedic.

Clip:  Well, see, I I don’t even really I know what

Craig:  you’re saying, and I agree with you, but I I think that ultimately that’s a decision that the filmmakers make, how they wanna submit it. And my guess would be that they thought they didn’t have a slim chance in hell of getting a best picture Todd, So maybe they thought they would go for something that they might have a better chance. I don’t know.

Todd:  Well, certainly not as a horror movie. I mean, how often do horror movies get serious consideration at the Oscars for anything?

Craig:  Hardly ever.

Todd:  The one thing he did do strategically was put some serious Microsoft product placement in this film.

Clip:  Yeah. That’s funny.

Todd:  Oh my god. Who who goes and bings things?

Clip:  Yeah. Everybody in this movie

Todd:  is whipping out their Surface tablet, binging things that they wanna ask questions about. Like, really? Come on.

Craig:  That’s fine. I didn’t even notice. That’s hilarious.

Jordan:  All in all, I thought it was really Todd. But I’m, like, both satisfied and dissatisfied with the ending. I’m satisfied, because, like, it is a happy ending, and we end with Todd, and he’s just, like, this is handled. And, like, it’s very funny, and it, like, ends on, like, a lighter note. But at the same time, there’s so many loose strings. Like, what happened to Andre Hayworth? Aren’t you guys gonna go save him? You know, how many people have they done this to? Is there ever gonna be justice? You know, obviously, if people show up to a house where people are dead in the driveway, and the house is completely burned down, like, there’s gonna be questions. So I it just leaves so many unanswered questions that that’s why I feel a little bit dissatisfied.

Todd:  Get out Todd Sure. That’s fair.

Craig:  Well, he’s thinking about a sequel. Now I kinda feel like this is one of those movies that you should really just kinda let it alone, you know? Yeah.

Jordan:  It should definitely be a stand alone.

Craig:  But you never know. He’s a smart guy. And if he comes up with a good story, I would certainly give it a chance. You know, this was a good movie.

Todd:  I mean, this order still exists. Right? All those people who are at that party went away. Maybe there’s somebody else in there who can do the operation Todd, or maybe they have the knowledge, you know, somewhere else. Surely, they wouldn’t be so stupid as to, you know, centralize all the knowledge and the head of 1 guy and all of the materials they need to do it in one location in case something happens. You know? Yeah.

Jordan:  Yeah.

Craig:  Sure. Overall, I mean, I think

Clip:  it was a pretty strong effort,

Craig:  and, it was fun talking to you guys about it.

Todd:  Oh, it was. I loved this movie. I’m so glad I finally got to see it.

Craig:  Todd. I’m glad. Alright. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. If you like this episode, let us know. If you, have any other theories that we didn’t talk about or things that you wanted to point out that maybe we missed, you can fill us in on something. Please feel free to leave comments on our Facebook page. You can find us there on Facebook, or you can find us on Stitcher, Itunes, Google Play. Pretty much anywhere you can find your favorite podcast, you can find us there. Until next time, I’m Craig.

Jordan:  I’m Todd. I’m Jordan. We’re Two Guys and a Chainsaw