2 Guys And A Chainsaw - A Horror Movie Review Podcast

Better late than never! We kick off 2018 with a brief look back and Christmas with the EXCELLENT and supremely overlooked A Christmas Horror Story – starring William Shatner, among others!

Episode 110, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we finish off 2017 with, as promised, one last Christmas horror movie. And this one, unlike most of the others we’ve done, actually has the word Christmas in the title. Yes. This this one, couldn’t be more Christmassy. This is a Christmas horror story, which I think was titled a holiday horror story for the sensitive Walmart crowd apparently. Go figure. This is a 2015 film, so it’s about 2 years old. And I was a little surprised by this because I think I might have seen it on Netflix like come up in my list or something, but I kind of skipped right over it because to be honest, it looked like one of those super low budget kind of crappy movies

Craig:  from the

Todd:  artwork and the fact that’s called a Christmas horror story, and I really didn’t see anything of it. Did this make a did this get a theatrical release?

Craig:  I don’t know. I don’t know if it did or not. I gosh. I I’m hesitant to even speculate because I really didn’t read about it, but I felt the same way that you did. This is one of the ones that I saw like on the shelves at Walmart, and it kind of looked like one of those cheap Kompass knock offs that came out around this time. And so I didn’t really pay much attention to it either, until I think it became available on Netflix. I don’t know, maybe sometime before, maybe Redbox or something, I don’t know. But I decided to check it out and, I was actually really, really pleasantly surprised.

Todd:  I actually think that this is

Craig:  a really good anthology movie. Honestly, this

Todd:  is kind of to Christmas as, maybe I’m going too far here, but this is to Christmas as I feel like trick or treat is to Halloween.

Craig:  Yeah, I was going to say the same thing. Now I don’t know if it’s exactly on par, I don’t know if it’s quite as good, but it’s really darn close, and very similar in feeling. It’s fun and dark and, you know, I thought it did a really good job. Okay, so there are several different segments. What I think is interesting and unique about this particular anthology is that it’s unlike some of the anthologies that we’ve watched and talked about, in that a lot of those you kind of have stand alone segments, with some sort of wrap around or something tying them together. And this one’s a little bit different in that the segments all play out concurrently and you keep kind of jumping back and forth between them. And, I’ve now seen this, I think, three times. I’m pretty sure that I watched it last Christmas and I watched it again this Christmas forgetting that you and I had already planned to talk about it. And so then when we were preparing to talk about it, I sat down and watched it again. And each time that I’ve watched it, I’ve noticed different little connections between all of the stories. The characters Craig paths at different points in all of them. And I didn’t notice that the first couple times around. But so having seen it several times now, I I can really appreciate that they really wove these together in a very kind of natural way.

Todd:  I picked out 1 or 2. I can’t wait to hear about more of them from a person who’s watched it multiple times. I I think that you could have played this movie, you know, with the segments back to back like you would in a traditional anthology, and it wouldn’t have changed it too much, I think. It would have changed the overall feel of the movie. I guess, I should say the emotional ride that you take through the film is one of slowly building tension, Whereas in an anthology story, you’re getting these little bite sized nuggets, so each story, you’re getting these little bite sized nuggets. Whereas in an anthology store, you’re getting these little bite sized nuggets, so each story you’re going up and down, and up and down, and up and down. In this one, you really gotta hold a lot in your head.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s true.

Todd:  As it goes along, and it’s at times, I felt it was maybe a little overbearing because we jump back to another story, and I’d be like, oh, where do we leave off with this? And then when everything’s, you know, building and building and building up to a crescendo, I just feel like you’re just overall getting this really tense amount of dread where the tenseness that you’re getting, if that is even a word, from one segment kind of carries over into another one.

Craig:  Mhmm. Mhmm.

Todd:  You know what I mean? So Yeah. Absolutely. Emotionally, it’s satisfying, and maybe it makes a little scarier because then it buoys the the less strong stories. Right? Because Yeah. They’re they’re feeding off of each other in a way. One of the things that I liked about it was I felt like like we’ve talked about this before in anthology movies where some of them are a little more disappointing, or some of them are just a little off compared to the others, or one of them has a super humorous tone that just throws the balance away, or maybe they they get their balance from the fact that one’s a little funny, one’s a little more serious, one’s a little scarier, one’s a little more traditional. This movie, I felt like they all almost all the stories were just pretty strong altogether.

Craig:  You know, it felt really kind of more of a traditional narrative pattern where you’re, you know, seeing things as they happen and and like you said before, you’re not, oh okay, well now we have the conclusion of this one, let’s move on to the next one. You know, it’s kind of keeping you invested in all of them as you go along, and you’re absolutely right. I think that Todd does help some of the weaker entries. Now, Todd and I talked about how we wanted to do this before we started, because you know we usually talk about plot in sequence as would be logical to do. But for this one, I think that even though this isn’t the way that the movie is structured, I think for the purpose of talking about it, it might be easier Todd talk about each story kind of independently, and then kind of talk about along the way and maybe at the end how the stories are connected. But I don’t know how you feel about the different entries. I’ll put it out there and say that my favorite entry is the Santa Claus entry. Yeah. I love that one. Which is why I think we should save it for last.

Todd:  I agree. I agree. Well, let’s just say that the movie starts out with a sweeping actually, it’s a it’s a really cool, title sequence as simple as it is, with a really cool song. The music, it’s like it’s like Carol of the Bells, but they do some I’ve heard a Carol of the Bells is, like, my favorite Christmas song because it’s a little sinister. And, and I really like that dichotomy that it has. But I also like it because different people play with it, you know, in many different ways. Like, I hear different covers of that tune. And everyone, a making it what it and in this movie, they do that. In this movie, I feel like the title sequence is a really nice little version of Carol Cabelles. It really got me in the Todd, you know? Yeah. And if you’re gonna open a Christmas horror movie with a song that’s a Christmas song, you’re either gonna go with, like, like, Acropolis where it’s this bright upbeat song that’s that’s, you know, completely at odds with the tone of what we’re going to get in the movie. Or you get this, which is a sinister song yet Christmassy.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And they play with the lyrics. You know, I didn’t write any of the lyrics down, but they they didn’t make the lyrics kind of, ominous and scary. And it’s called metallic, sharp, bloody snowflakes flying around. Eventually, one of them morphs into a Craig, which then turns upside down. And, yeah, it’s it’s a a cool, sequence.

Todd:  But but it’s all kind of like like because then it swoops down onto this fake ass CGI video game castle.

Craig:  Cool. Whatever. I thought it looks cool.

Todd:  It looked cool. But the special It was They obviously didn’t have the budget to get, like, you know, ILM or Weta Workshop or anything to work on this movie.

Craig:  Well, it was still pretty. It was. Yeah. It’s okay. But, yeah, I mean, it starts out it starts out at Christmas Eve at the North Pole, or at least you assume so, and you see Santa walking in this stable full of his reindeer and he’s kind of looking at them or whatever, and you notice that the staff he’s carrying is bloody on the end. And then he hears some rattling from the doors at the end of the stable and there’s light behind the doors, and you’re wondering what’s going to come in, and then it just cuts to black screen 12 hours earlier. Mhmm. And, on the radio it says

Todd:  Merry Christmas, Bailey Downs. It’s Christmas Eve, the most wonderful time of the year. And I’ll tell you what, listeners. Danger’s Dan is gonna tell you a secret. I love Christmas. There, I said it. And I don’t care who knows it because I love tinsel. I love Rudolph. I love cranberries. I love baby Jesus. Before he went all hippie with the sandals and the long hair.

Craig:  Okay. First of all, we’re late in posting this because we just couldn’t get our shit together over the holidays.

Todd:  Typical holiday. We tried, we tried

Craig:  folks, but it just didn’t work out. So it’s been a week or so since I watched this and I’m maybe not as up on my, trivia as I should be, but the same people who are behind this are the people who are behind the Ginger Snaps series and another TV series, which

Todd:  I can’t, Orphan Black. Orphan Black.

Craig:  Okay. That series, the Ginger Snaps 3 movie series and Orphan Black, also take place in this fictional town of, Bailey Downs. And I loved the Ginger Snaps movies, so, whoever was behind those, who was also behind this, they’re doing some good work. And it starts out, and the connective between all of these stories is William Shatner playing a radio DJ named Dangerous Dan. It’s Christmas Eve and he’s talking about how he’s gonna be there all night and he talks about there’s this big charity food drive at the mall and, their weatherman, Norman, is going to be covering that for them. And, that’s just kind of basically the intro, and then we jump into these stories. And the first story that we jump into, which I think is a good place to start because frankly, this is my least favorite. Not because it’s bad, it’s not bad, it’s fine, it’s just of all of them, it’s probably the least Christmassy. It works in the context of the movie, but it feels a little bit wedged in. Whereas most of the other ones, I don’t know, I guess there’s another one coming up that really doesn’t have all that much to do with Christmas either, but, this one, seemed to be kind of wedged in there. But it’s not a bad story, it’s about these 3 teenagers who the girl, of the 3, Molly, for a school project wants to do this investigative report for her journalism class about this murder that happened at their school the previous Christmas. And, they start out by watching, this police footage. I don’t know where they got this film.

Todd:  But they have this

Craig:  police footage of the aftermath of this crime scene where these teens were killed in some sort of what appears to be a ritual killing at school. And you know, we get to see the carnage of that. You know, 1 guy’s like dead, like hunched over a bed, and on the wall scrawled in blood it says, For unto us a child is born, for unto us a son is given. They’re waiting in the car to go to this school and what they’re waiting for is Dylan, one of the guys, there’s Dylan who’s like the good looking hip one and then there’s Ben who’s like the quiet kind of geeky one. And Dylan’s girlfriend is gonna be bringing them keys to the school, and his girlfriend shows up and his girlfriend is Caprice, who ends up being the teenage daughter in another one of the segments. So it’s just a quick crossover there, but she gives him these keys and she’s like, Oh yeah, I’ve got the stickiest fingers in Bailey Downs or whatever. Right? See? Oh, that’s what I Todd you. And, so she gives them these keys, and they go to check out this high school, their high school apparently, but they go down to the basement where all this happens, and they’re gonna do this investigative report, and that’s how all this gets rolling.

Todd:  That’s right. So they go in, and their high school is like a former convent we hear later. It looks actually very, religious. This move this segment is really like it it takes the religious aspect, I think, of Christmas and tries to do something with it, which which is actually pretty interesting. You know, normally, Christmas movies don’t really go there. Oh, Christmas horror movies, I should say, don’t really go there. And so anyway, they they go downstairs into the basement, and in the basement of this former convent slash now school is where this killing happened. And so, they go down there with their video cameras, and they’re going to she films a little segment

Clip:  crucified exactly 1 year ago Todd, on Christmas Eve. Connor’s neck was broken. And over here, Jenna’s mutilated body was found hanging off some metal piping in the ceiling. Why would somebody go to so much effort? That is just one of the many unanswered questions in this baffling case.

Todd:  And of course, instantly weird things are happening. It’s it’s very much your traditional people poking around in asylum. Right? It’s creepy things that happened there before, and we’re seeing the ghosts of those of those incidents. Apparently, this is where, as she explains, the nuns would take the girls who had gotten pregnant. And this is a real thing actually. You know, there was a whole period in the US history, where girls who got pregnant would be quietly whisked away

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  For a while, and they’d either get abortions or they’d be put in the care of some special home or some special place, bring their child to term, their child would be taken away from them and given up to adoption. The kid would then go back to school, and it was like, oh, she just turn returned from a holiday. So I I thought that was interesting. I’d never actually seen that before as, setting, you know, kind of a theme for horror film.

Craig:  You get all of this just kind of in their dialogue and it’s it’s a little bit choppy, but I feel like that’s intentional. You know, they they’re they’re not trying to lay things out too much for you. They’re leaving a little bit of mystery. But apparently, there was this girl who, had a who was pregnant but who self aborted or or or she she tried to give herself an abortion, and I think that she died in the process. They’re down there and, like, they almost get caught by the principal, but then they don’t. And then, they’re down in the basement and they kind of film some of their stuff and, like, they hear some weird noises, like, some weird things are going on. But they finish up their segment and they wanna leave, but they go to try to leave and they’re locked down there, and they can’t get out. And they’re, you know, it’s cold down there. They’re talking about how they wish they could get, you know, they have other things to be doing. Ben says he’s supposed to be helping out at the food drive at the mall. Oh. You know, they’re like, well, somebody will eventually figure out that we’re missing. You know, if nothing else, Dylan’s girlfriend, Caprice, you know, when he doesn’t call her tonight because their phones are also not working mysteriously. You know, they’ll they’ll figure out they’ll figure out that we’re gone and it’ll be fine. Well so they’re hanging out down there and, like, every once in a while we see an image of a ghost, like, lingering behind, like, the ghost of apparently this girl. And and at first they don’t see it, but at some point Dylan goes off to pee and they’re all tense because, you know, there’s weird noises going on and stuff. But he goes off to pee and everything’s okay, but then all of a sudden, the girl Molly looks at Ben and over his shoulder is this bloody faced girl ghost, and she freaks out and, like, goes into convulsions. Now of course at this point in the movie it switches over to another story, but when we come back to their story, everybody’s asleep, but now Molly is all of a sudden awake and okay again. And she wakes up Dylan and she’s like, come with me, and she takes him to this room with a bed in it that they’ve seen before and it’s the room with the writing on the wall.

Todd:  Yeah, where the person was killed before. Mhmm.

Craig:  Right. It appears that she’s trying to seduce him, she starts taking off her clothes and, then she, you know, grabs him by the waist line of the front of his pants and and pulls him to the bed and starts unbuckling his belt and he’s like, woah woah woah. You know, this isn’t gonna happen. I’ve got a girlfriend. Good for you, Dylan. It’s almost like Dylan has been in a horror movie before. So, so he says no. And, you know, she kinda looks at him and then the cross on the wall starts shaking. And, again, we cut away to another segment. And then when we come back, we’re now back in the other room where Ben is sleeping and she wakes him up and he’s like, well, where is where is Dylan? And she’s like, well, he’s in in the other room. And he wanted me to come with him, but I wanted to stay with you. And then I this this scene is, I don’t know. It was really kind of uncomfortable and disturbing for sure.

Todd:  It is, and it was also I think part of why it’s so uncomfortable and disturbing is it’s also kind of sexy, but it you know you know it shouldn’t be. Like Yeah. It was it was very skillfully filmed. But she sits in front of him, and, we don’t see any any real detail, but, she pulls up a chair and sits down in front of him and has her legs open, and he’s, like, trying to avoid, looking at her extremely short skirt, and we get the idea that, you know, she doesn’t have any underwear on. And, he’s like, aren’t you cold that way? Which I thought was great. Yeah. And she turns the chair around and gets up, pulls him up, and throws him in the chair. And he sits down, and she mounts him, basically. And he’s super uncomfortable about it. Molly, are you sure?

Clip:  This is what you want, isn’t it?

Todd:  He she goes to town on him, and that’s the best way to put it. You know, she’s going to town on him until they’re finished, and she zips him back up, and stands up, and it’s just Yeah. You’re right. The scene makes you extremely uncomfortable because it’s a bit rapey.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, it’s because, you know, she stands up and oh, gosh. It’s it’s really even kind of uncomfortable to talk about, but she she stands up and she sees blood on her blouse. And she she says, what did you do to me? And and it’s kind of like she’s come out of this fog all of a sudden, this mental fog. And, he looks at her and he’s like, what did I do to you? And, like, you feel bad for both of them. Like, he didn’t do anything, you know. He was actually very, you know, making sure that this was consensual, you know, is this really what you want to do? But apparently it’s because she had been temporarily possessed by this ghost. But anyway, so he stands up and he wants to know what’s happened to Dylan and so he starts to go into the other room. And it’s almost as though even though she was in possessed or in some kind of trance or something, it’s like she knows what he’s gonna find in there. So, he goes in and, Dylan is dead. He’s been stabbed through the eye, I believe, with the crucifix, and he’s dead on the bed. And it’s like all of a sudden it just dawns on Todd, and she says, you know, this girl, she she wanted me to carry her baby, and the 2 kids who were murdered last year wouldn’t help her, but you and I did. She’s saying this to Ben. And then all of a sudden this the ghost appears and she’s holding this bloody baby And first, she, paranormally, throws Ben up onto the wall, like, in a crucified position, which is the same as yeah. Like the previous guy and, kills him, breaks his neck or something. And then she walks up to Molly and just touches her abdomen, and the ghost just kinda watches her go. And I guess, you know, what we’re led to believe is that now that now Molly is pregnant with this ghost lady’s baby.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And that’s it. I mean, and that’s it. That’s the end of that story.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s a little Twilight Zone or Tales from the Crypti, but the the thing about it is that they were all victims in this, you know. Yeah. There’s no real twist at the end. It’s just this ghost gets her way, kills the people that she needs to, and now Molly’s got the ghost baby’s child. So and and and its only real connection is is this this tenuous one of a play on words more than anything else. I thought this I honestly thought this segment was gonna have a virgin birth in there somewhere, so, I, I guess it didn’t it didn’t go that far.

Craig:  No. Not quite. Not quite. The little connections. We at some point when we cut back to, dangerous Dan Shatner, he is holding a a Christmas card and he says something about Christmas is the time to remember the people that we love, even the ones that we’ve lost. And it turns out that one of those teenage kids who was killed the previous year was one of his grandkids. I don’t know if it was the the the boy or the girl, but one of them was one of his grandkids. So there’s that connection there. Another connection, which will lead us well into the next segment, before they went down there they were watching the police footage And in the police footage, there’s this black cop who is on camera and he’s looking around and all of a sudden he’s like, wait, did you hear something? And then he starts to sing some Christmas carol. I don’t remember what it was. I don’t remember if it was a way in a manger or or something else. But then on that police footage, something really scary happens, like a body falls down from the ceiling or something. And they say and then the the footage cuts out and one of the boys says, well, what happened to that cop? What did he say after this? And, Molly says, well, nobody really knows because he went on stress leave after that. Well, that cop is a prominent figure in one of our other segments. That’s right. The segment this next segment is about this young very good looking African American family and it’s that cop and his just beautiful wife and, their little boy, and they’re going out looking for Christmas trees and, gosh, the more okay. So the first time that I saw this movie, this one didn’t particularly stand out to me. I liked it. I thought it was okay. But the more times that I’ve seen it, I’ve really come to appreciate this one more. What did you think about this, segment?

Todd:  This is one of my favorites. I thought also thought it was one of the scariest. It is scary. There’s so many things about it. They’re scary. First of all, they’re just driving down the road, and they’re going to get a Christmas tree and they pull over by the side of the road. Do people actually do this?

Craig:  I don’t know. Like people, when

Todd:  you get a Christmas tree, go to a Christmas tree farm. Right.

Craig:  Just drive out somewhere

Todd:  and cut down a tree. Maybe, you know, back in the 1800 that was acceptable in certain parts of the world, but don’t do

Craig:  it now. Yeah. You’re gonna get shot.

Todd:  Stuff will happen. It’s just it’s not even cool. But anyway, this otherwise very cool family Yeah. Yeah. Which is why it’s kinda weird actually that they do this. But anyway, this otherwise very cool family pulls over by the side of the road, and they get out, and they walk to us to a fence that says no trespassing.

Clip:  Not here. What do you mean not here? Baby, look at those. Now tell me you will find the perfect Christmas tree. You’re right through here. Great. Nice example for a cop, Scott. In the middle of nowhere. No one’s gonna even know we’re here. Go on.

Todd:  They’re walking through the woods, and it’s snowy and and whatnot. They find their tree and as the father, and I think his name is Scott, and his wife are dragging the tree back, They turn around and notice that Dylan, their son, is not there. So they go running after him trying to find him Dylan Dylan Dylan. And they happen upon a big tree with a it’s it’s like a hollowed out middle. Yeah. Like, it just it’s like it has an entrance basically. It’s like a Smurf tree. Yeah. Absolutely. And they find Dylan curled up inside there. And so, Dylan, come out of there. You really scared us. And so, they take him home. And immediately, Dylan starts acting very strange. He’s not talking, to them. He is he’s sitting and eating spaghetti and he’s just wolfing it down like Craig. And, this starts to really frustrate the dad because he’s like Dylan, you gotta you gotta Todd. And and he doesn’t stop. He’s like Dylan, seriously Todd. And he doesn’t. And so he gets angry at him, and really what’s happening through this whole seek this whole story is that Dylan’s really pushing dad’s buttons, And it’s only as the movie goes on that we realize that dad himself has these issues. Right? These stress Yeah. Issues, and so it’s it becomes more clear why dad’s buttons are are getting pushed so easily, and, again, why this otherwise seemingly perfectly nice, perfectly together, perfectly happy family is just coming unhinged by this kid’s behavior. But there are just a lot of little moments in here that are really creepy. There there’s a section where the mother goes in and and the kid is sleeping. As she closes the window, we see the reflection in the mirror as of Dylan in the bed, and he is he does not look like him.

Craig:  No. It’s not him at all. It’s clearly some kind of demon. Glowing eyes kind of demon thing.

Todd:  Right? So we know that either he’s possessed, we we don’t really know what’s going on. But the thing about this just touches on so many things. I mean first of all, the the the scariness of losing your child. Right? Of just Yeah. Flat out losing them in the woods. Then you find them again but you bring them home and they’re absolutely not the same this movie it just kept reminding me of that segment from the other movie we watched recently it was called the box What was that anthology?

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Double x.

Todd:  Double x. Yeah. Where they and then you bring the kids home and suddenly the kid is just off.

Craig:  Well, and I would imagine I can only imagine because I’m not a parent, but I would imagine as a parent that you kind of have those scary moments when your your kid is so young. I hope you haven’t had these moments yet,

Todd:  but where

Craig:  your kid is just where your kid is just acting off and you don’t know what the deal is and, you know, that in itself is scary. You know, like, I feel like that plays into fears for so many people who are parents, you know, whether it be illness or trauma or whatever it is. When your kid’s just not being themselves, that in itself is scary. You know, the fact that this kid, is apparently somehow now demonic, you know, obviously that’s scary, but it it it plays into a realistic fear too which and and the mom, I didn’t write down any of the actor and actresses names, for this, but, this this woman, she plays it really well. Like, clearly there has been tension in their family already, you know, whether it be because of this cop’s trauma from this murder case that he’s been working on or whether it’s beyond that and we just don’t know the whole story. There’s clearly been tension already and, obviously, her primary concern is protecting her kid. And you really get that in in this segment. You know, she’s her first priority is the kid and making sure that the kid’s okay. If that comes at the expense of her marriage, well, then so be it. But she’s gonna protect this kid. And she, at one point, you know, he’s already been acting weird, like he stabbed the the dad with his fork when the dad tried to take it away from him because he was eating so much and, you know, he’s just and he’s not talking, he’s not smiling. The kid’s got asthma, he’s not using his inhaler, like, all this weird stuff. And she gets this phone call from this guy she doesn’t know.

Todd:  You’re on my land, took one of my trees, and I saw your license plate. What do you want? Your boy, how is he? Something happened to him in the grove? Look, I don’t know dead. Did something happen to your boy?

Clip:  He got lost, but we found him later.

Todd:  No. You didn’t. He’s still lost.

Craig:  And the first time she hangs up on him. But then weird things continue to happen. And this movie, one of the things that I appreciate about it is that it is not afraid to go to some weird and dark places.

Todd:  Yes.

Craig:  Like, the they put the kid to bed and then the dad kind of tries to seduce the mom a little bit. Like, he’s not pushy about it, but she’s clearly not into it and so he goes off to to lay down on the couch. Well, then she’s laying in bed and all of a sudden something comes up under the blankets, and we know that it’s the kid, but it’s gross. Oh, especially when

Todd:  you see this little hand come up between her breasts. Oh, my gosh, dude.

Craig:  And and, like, he’s pleasuring her somehow, Like, this is obvious in her facial expressions and in her body language, and she wakes up and it whatever it is under there retreats so quickly that she just sees a flash of it going out the door, and she jumps up and she, looks in and you know he’s in bed, you know, just like she left him before.

Todd:  Dad’s been drinking. Oh, and we see dad flipping through, clippings, and this is where we realize, oh, yeah. He was the cop from the video.

Craig:  I don’t remember exactly when in the story this happens, but at some point the dad is snoozing on the couch and he wakes up and he sees all the presents have been opened. And so he goes in and he’s, the mom is trying to intervene, but he’s gonna spank the kid. He takes off his belt and he actually does. He he whips the kid with the belt a couple times. And and, you know, I don’t remember exactly the sequence. Maybe the bed thing happened after that. I don’t remember. But eventually, the dad is on the couch again and he hears some movement and so he goes, to check up on the kid, and he’s apologetic. He’s like, I’m really sorry. You know? This has been a rough year. I’ve been really stressed out, but I’m really trying. Meanwhile, we see the kid crawling up on the ceiling. Sealing.

Todd:  And, then we cut back to the mom and she hears something going on

Craig:  in the other room. So she gets up to go check it out and she gets a little surprised.

Todd:  Yeah. Dad is, has the belt around his neck, and his arm is his hand has been cut off. And He’s dead under the Christmas tree. Definitely dead. He’s a wrapped present. He’s got lights wrapped around him Todd. Yeah. Under the tree. So she freaks out. So she goes into the bathroom, and she grabs a bat and all this stuff, and has another gets another phone call from this guy. And he’s like, now do you believe me? And he says to her, you need to bring the changeling to the forest. But he can sense things, so you can’t let him feel like he’s threatened. And then she proceeds to do a terrible job of not letting this guy feel like he’s being threatened. She goes, I don’t know. I thought she was pretty composed for considering the circumstances. Baby is composed as you could expect her to be. She goes she’s got a giant duffel bag that she’s messing with in the hallway. She’s got her bat around the back, and, she sneaks up back on Will, and Will’s back is to her. He’s sitting down playing with something, in front of the tree. He lifts it up just a little higher, and it turns out he’s playing with that severed hand of his dad, which is not helping the mom maintain her composure. Right. Anyway, she’s like, Will, would you like to go for a ride? Let’s go for a ride, honey. But he absolutely senses something is wrong. So he gets up and slowly backs away from her, and finally lunges at her, and she whacks him with a bat across the head. And we get just this whole cat and mouse scene where she’s going after him and he’s running away. She ends up hitting him a couple more times with the bat and gets him in the bag. Right? Yeah. And, takes him to the forest, and gets to the forest, and and, you know, cuts away to another thing. And when it cuts back, she’s there at the forest and she’s meeting up with this guy. And they meet and he Basically, it turns out that this guy, he says something about how the trolls have been on my land for generations. I’m kind of their protector. I’m like their guardian. Don’t worry, they’re afraid of me. But Yeah.

Craig:  They won’t hurt you as long as I’m here.

Todd:  Exactly. So, and then all of these other little troll like creatures start to kinda come out from around the trees, and close in on him. Anyway, she freaks out, and she has a gun, Which was it, a gun she brought. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. I assume her husband’s gun, I guess. I don’t know.

Todd:  Yeah. So she has a gun, and she holds it up and is going to shoot one of these creatures. And the guy’s like, no. No. Don’t shoot it. Don’t shoot it. And she shoots, but instead she ends up killing the guy. Mhmm.

Craig:  So now her protector is dead. Yeah. At which point I thought she was totally screwed. I did too. But what what ends up happening is, the the little changeling that she brought, comes up close to her and she’s like, please, I just want my son back. Please, I just want my son back. And they’re they’re right outside this tree that they had found the sun in before and the changeling goes in there and you kind of think maybe that’s it, but then Will comes out and and so and it appears to be him. Like, he’s just in his underwear. Like, the changeling had put on his clothes when he had done his changeling thing or whatever. And they, and they just walk off together, and that’s kind of the end. And so the the sense that I got was that though this guy had been saying, oh, you know, I they’ve been on my land. It’s been my job to, you know, keep them here or whatever. It’s almost like the sense that I got was that this changeling was almost thanking her for releasing them. Does that make sense?

Todd:  It does make sense. That’s a take. I didn’t it didn’t quite occur to me, but that that actually makes more sense. My concern was probably shared by you was that the the change was just going in the tree and changing back into will. It could be. It could be, but that’s just not the way that it felt at the end.

Craig:  No. It it felt like a happy ending for these people. And most of the peep well, I mean, the dad’s dead, and how are they gonna explain that? The dad’s dead, so to speak. Only so happy, but at least the mom got her son back. Yeah. And that was nice.

Todd:  Well and unlike the other one, I mean, in a sense, this one had no this one follows your traditional, like, again, tales in the crypt twisty pattern where the guy, they did something wrong and they got punished for it. You know, they took the tree from the land, they weren’t supposed to go on, and, the dad, you know, got it for it, and they went through this experience.

Craig:  Yeah. And so and so that’s there’s that little segment. There are just 2 left if I remember correctly, and the the next one concerns this family of assholes.

Todd:  We don’t we don’t even realize how how big of asshole these family are until we get further into it.

Craig:  Right. Right. We see okay. So Caprice is the teenage daughter. She was the girlfriend of Dylan who had stolen the keys so they could get into the high school. So there’s that connection. And in the very beginning of the movie, we see them. They’re going somewhere, and they drive right by the family from the last segment that we talked about. So they’re, you know, they’re just these little connections here and there. But anyway, this family, it’s the mother and father and teenage son and probably I would guess like a 12 year old or excuse me, teenage daughter and probably like a 12 year old son. And they are going to visit their aunt who they are estranged from, and the dad claims that it’s all in the spirit of Christmas and, you know, they want to reconcile their family grievances and whatever. But they all just seem like a bunch of rich jerks, basically. They get to the old lady’s house and it’s this big, gorgeous, like, estate mansion, and they go in there and she’s this stern, like, foreign lady who just sits in her stiff back chairs, you know. It’s so stereotypical.

Todd:  You

Craig:  know? The the rich recluse aunt, who’s clearly not happy to see them. Like, the wife at some point’s like, she knows we’re coming. Right? And the dad’s like, well, it’s Christmas.

Todd:  And and his whole motivation, which she accuses him often, he claims it’s not, but it kinda turns out it is, As apparently, he has some invention or something that some business that he’s been trying to get going for the longest time, and he’s always needing more money and always needing more money for it. And he’s hoping that he can make one last pitch to her being it that it’s Christmas and all, and try to get some of her money, or at least have her leave it to him or something. I don’t know.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  It’s a little loose, but

Craig:  Yeah. Well and and so they’re there and and, you know, she’s clearly not happy that they’re there. So the dad kinda takes her off, I guess, to talk about this investment or whatever, and that leaves the kids. And 1, the son, is playing with these tchotchkes on a shelf or a piano or something and there’s a little statue of Santa and then there’s a little statue of Krampus. And he touches the statue of Krampus, and before the ant leaves, he touches it and she’s like, don’t touch that. And so he puts it back, but then then she leaves. And then the groundskeeper, the random creepy groundskeeper comes in. There’s always a creepy groundskeeper. Right. And sees him playing with it again and, you know, he says, I don’t know what he says, you shouldn’t played with that or something.

Todd:  He’s really old or something.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, he ticks the kid off so the kid just very deliberately drops the little Krampus statue on the floor and it breaks and

Clip:  Duncan.

Todd:  That was very unwise.

Clip:  We will pay for it, of course. Pick it up. Get her.

Todd:  What have you done? I did nothing. The boy had an unfortunate accident. Take your family and leave now. No. Let’s not be here. No. I’m sorry. I feel one of my spells coming on. I I cannot entertain. Yes. Goodbye.

Craig:  So she sends them away and, they’re driving away and something big and white runs in their path and causes them to wreck and they’re stuck in the snow and they can’t get out. So they decide that they’re going to hike through the woods because that’ll be quicker to get back to the ants’ house. Big mistake.

Todd:  So, of course, it’s Krampus is after them. So the dad gets hit with something, stabbed somehow, speared. And then the boy, gets dragged away.

Craig:  With these chains. It’s it’s almost like the hellraiser chains

Todd:  that come out of nowhere. That’s right. So then it’s the mother and the daughter and the father, and they run into a church. And the father gets the idea that they have to confess their sins, that, you know, because Krampus is the anti Christmas, that if they confess their sins, then that will make him go away. And so that’s when the family just lays out how messed up they are. The the daughter’s like, well, I stole this, and I’m a kleptomaniac. And then the mother says, well, what about Dylan? You know, he’s he’s innocent. Innocent. Oh, yeah, mom. What do you think happened to all of our pets? It turns out Dylan’s a sociopath. Right. And then the mother’s, like, yelling at her at at the dad saying, well, that’s because you didn’t spend any time with him because it’s always about your business. And he’s like, business? There is no business. It’s all a sham. And it turns out that the dad has been running some Ponzi scheme all this time, just raising money to Todd pay off his debtors, and hasn’t been doing anything. But he did it all for her. Right?

Craig:  Because he loved her so much and he Yeah. Yeah. And blah blah.

Todd:  This is honestly, like, my least favorite of the stories Todd be completely fair.

Craig:  Well, the characters are also unlikable.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s melodramatic too.

Craig:  It is melodramatic, but it’s scary. And, like, there have been so many Krampus knock offs, and I say knock offs, you know, this is an ancient story. They’re all knock offs, I guess. So, you know, they kind of have this little moment where it’s like, oh, we’ve revealed ourselves Todd one another and then the chains come in and get the dad and rip him out the window. Well, guess that didn’t work. Right. And Krampus is, like, at the door. And so the mom and the daughter run into the most confined space they can find, which is, like, the confessional. So dumb. And and they’re standing in there and, like, they’re standing in there and, like, it shakes the confessional, but then it stops. And they’re standing there and they’re being quiet. And the daughter’s like, I feel something on my leg, and they shine a light down there. It’s this enormous tongue, like, licking up and down her leg. And so the mom stabs it, stabs the tongue, and then Krampus is out there, like, roaring and freaking out and the mom’s like, okay. I love you. When I open the door, you run. So she opens the door and the daughter runs to the front and Krampus faces the mom and kills her. And this is, you know, it’s a pretty it’s a pretty scary Krampus, you know. It’s it’s this big white horned devil like demon, and it looks pretty good. I mean, the I have to say, you made fun of the Industrial Light and Magic, you know No. The castle at the beginning or night Right. Whatever.

Todd:  19 nineties, you know, doom or, quake. Yeah. Castle.

Craig:  Sure. But I would say for the most part, the effects are pretty good and this monster pretty good and he’s pretty scary.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  He kills the mom and then the girl runs back to the aunt’s house and she gets there and the doors are locked and there’s big crosses up on the doors. And she runs all around, but nobody’s letting her in and eventually, Krampus shows up. And Krampus comes running at her and she falls down, but she picks up some sort of, like, post or something and holds it in front of her and Krampus just totally impales himself on the post. And so then while he is disabled, she also finds a gas can, and she douses him in gasoline. Well, then she lights

Todd:  She trips over a chainsaw to get to the gas can. Oh, I

Craig:  didn’t even see that.

Todd:  Pick that up too.

Craig:  She lights him on fire and as he’s burning, he turns into the groundskeeper Yeah. Which is weird. So then she goes inside and she’s talking to the ant and the I actually thought that this was really cool. She she’s like, why was the groundskeeper Krampus? And the the great aunt is like, well, it’s just like your dad said. He was talking about the Christmas spirit. Well, Krampus is a Christmas spirit and the Christmas spirit can get into anybody and if you have anger and hatred in your heart then that brings Krampus. And I actually thought that was really a really cool concept

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And and one that I hadn’t seen before. But the the the daughter is like, well, wait a second. You knew that guy was pissed, so you knew he was gonna turn into Krampus so you sent us out as bait to lure us away or to lure him away from you. And the ant’s like,

Todd:  what? What?

Craig:  And the girl’s like, you did it. You totally did it. And she’s like, you don’t know what you’re talking about. And the girl goes, yes. I do. And then she turns into Krampus. Like, and it’s this kind of cool it’s not the greatest effects, but they did a good job with what they had. And, you know, she kinda turns white and dark eyed and evilly, and then she morphs completely into Krampus and, kills the ants.

Todd:  The idea was good. Again, it also very tails from the crypt, you know.

Craig:  I can tell you didn’t like it. I I liked it.

Todd:  I didn’t hate it. I just, to me, it was the weakest of the stories, but it wasn’t a bad story, you know. I just, you know, at the end of the day, it was just all these people getting hunted down by Krampus until oh, big twist, Krampus can be anybody, right, at the end. Right. But it it’s it’s it’s way more Christmas oriented, obviously, than the first story.

Craig:  So Right. Right.

Todd:  It’s good. It’s good balance.

Craig:  And and then okay. So then that leads us into the last of the stories.

Todd:  Oh, which is so cool.

Craig:  Which is my absolute favorite.

Todd:  We’re back to Santa, and and we’ve been getting obviously snippets of Santa throughout this. And this is, the the story that gets a bit humorous as well. I just love their take on Santa though, because I’ve never quite seen this either. You know, Santa’s at the North Pole, and he’s got his elves, but he’s in this big castle. It’s not a candy cane looking castle. It’s not Right. Bright and colorful. It’s it’s very industrial looking, and the inside is very much like a factory. And it’s not a cute factory, it’s like a factory factory, you know, like something out of the 19 forties or something. Yeah. And it’s decked out that way, and it’s got an art deco look to it, and it’s it’s really cool. And Santa obviously has lots of bureaucracy there where he’s got all his elves and they’re checking things. But one of the elves, what’s his name? Sparkles or something?

Craig:  I don’t know. Something like that. Sure.

Todd:  Is a little twitchy and weird, and he’s like, what’s going on? And missus Claus comes in, and missus Claus is, like, young and strapping, which again was very, very interesting. I don’t know. Is this, like, Santa’s second missus Claus?

Craig:  I don’t know, Todd.

Todd:  I don’t know about Santa’s marital history. I did kinda wonder if he maybe traded up at at some point. Anyway, I don’t even remember how it happens because I think it happens rather suddenly that, Santa comes in, and the whole factory is just empty. And their boxes overturned and things everywhere. And he says to missus Claus that the the elves are infected. It’s that one

Craig:  Yeah. Okay. I I have to go back just a little bit because it’s not No.

Todd:  It’s a

Craig:  sparkling I I I no. I think there is a sparkles, but I think that it’s shiny.

Todd:  That it’s the first one.

Craig:  He’s he’s acting weird. And one of the reasons he’s acting weird is because missus Claus offers him a cookie, and he doesn’t want it.

Todd:  Take a break, everyone. Hey, missus Claus. Even Christmas magic needs a little fuel. Cookie wishes. Have a cookie shiny. No. I

Clip:  I don’t know. No. Thank you.

Todd:  It’ll keep your strength up for the long shift.

Craig:  Come on.

Todd:  Not hungry. I’m not hungry.

Clip:  Not hungry? They’re cookies. You’re being silly, Shiny. You know how much you love my cookies. I said I don’t want a goddamn cookie. You ring that fucking so hard.

Craig:  The best part about it is their dialogue. And so much of it is just kind of in the background and, like, you really have to listen to what they’re saying. And eventually, they all all, you know, like you said, he he tells his wife he’s afraid that they’re all gonna get infected and he’s like she’s like, Well, there’s no explanation for that. And Santa’s like, ‘You’re right. There’s not unless he’s behind it.’ And then all the elves turn into zombies and it’s just chaos. But it is it’s one of the funniest things that I’ve ever seen. It’s so funny.

Todd:  It’s an action film at this point, and Santa’s just going to town with as he picks up his staff, which reminded me of the staff in Cent. You remember that?

Craig:  Mhmm. Mhmm.

Todd:  It’s kinda curly q at the end. It’s it’s sharp. He sharpens the staff on the fireplace. It’s like this is this is like it’s almost like Santa’s had to do this before. Is is Santa’s attitude. He’s just a business like guy. He knows what he’s gotta do, and he’s just gonna go do it. And so he makes no qualms about going through and just absolutely massacring these elves as they’re attacking him. He’s like, not you too sparkles and stuff like that. It’s the meantime that the elves are, like, cursing and swearing, like, coming at them like rabid wolves, and he’s taken them out. And they really spare no expense on this. I mean, the budget for this whole sequence had to exceed the budget of the rest of the film. The set design is awesome. The the practical effects are cool. There’s obviously some CGI in there. The lighting, the the shooting, it’s just exciting. It’s really fun.

Craig:  Yeah. And there’s there’s not a whole lot to it. I mean, we keep like we said earlier, the movie keeps cutting back and forth between these different stories. And every time we come back to this story, it’s really just Santa battling It’s more of the same. It’s just it’s more of the same. But you really want it. So fun. Yeah. Like, every time every time it’s so fun.

Todd:  It’s like a little Christmas present. Every time it cuts back to it, you’re like, oh, yeah. More of this. There are

Craig:  all these different scenes of him slaughtering these elves all over the place. There’s a a great scene where he gets into the elevator and, like, he pushes the closed door and it starts to close and then you see all these elves come run around the corner and one of them gets in, before the door is closed in this. So then several of them get in and then the doors close and then you just see the door open on the next floor and it’s just his staff just dripping with blood and him just standing Body parts. And every time he’s, you know, getting these elves, they are just saying the most crass horrible things and it’s so funny to hear it in their little elfie voices. It’s so funny, But it’s also, ultimately, when the reveal is revealed, it’s so clever Yeah. Because I don’t know how I didn’t see it coming. I don’t know how I didn’t see it coming.

Todd:  Really? I couldn’t see it. No. I couldn’t seen this coming from a mile away. No. I didn’t see it coming. Oh my god. I don’t know how you could have seen it coming.

Craig:  Well, because I’ve seen it three times and you can. Okay. So there there’s Todd of there’s all this carnage. And, ultimately, when it seems like he’s got about all the elves killed, then he’s looking for his wife and he finds her, but she’s in shadow. And it turns out that she’s been turned to or like she’s turning and, so he has to kill her. And that’s when we end up back at the beginning of the movie where he’s with the reindeer and something is, rattling the doors and he’s like, I guess it’s about time to settle this. And Krampus,

Todd:  burst through the doors. Yep.

Craig:  And they they have this great great battle like it’s an excellent fight

Todd:  scene. It’s like a Mortal Kombat showdown. Yeah.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s fantastic and and it looks like Krampus is going to win, but then at the very last moment, Santa kind of gets the advantage. He goes and he’s gonna deliver the the final blow and all of a sudden Krampus says, Norman, please don’t do this. Please don’t kill me, in a totally human normal voice. And

Todd:  all of a

Craig:  sudden, we flash out of the North Pole and we’re in the mall and Santa is a mall Santa threatening some little meek mall employee, and we see all of this carnage all around him. And the big reveal is that what has happened is that this whole Santa segment has been a delusion in this guy’s mind. Mhmm. And and, God, I swear to Todd, it took me until the 3rd time watching it. But in the very beginning, when Shatner says we’re gonna send our guy Norman to the mall.

Todd:  Norman. Norman. Oh.

Craig:  And and he says we’re gonna send our guy Norman to the mall. How you doing, Norman? And Norman takes this piece of paper and puts it up in on the window that says Christmas, and then he storms out. It’s him. It’s the guy. So this is Norman the weatherman who has had some kind of psychotic break and has and and we see it, you know, like it kind of flashes back and we see him standing in front of the bathroom mirror, and he’s kind of freaking out. But then he puts on his Santa stuff and he goes out into the mall. And then it does all of these

Todd:  charles. Yeah.

Craig:  Yes. Of of things that we’ve seen, like, of him coming out of the elevator. Well, it’s the elevator in the mall and, like, that’s why Santa’s workshop seemed so industrial is because it was all taking place in a mall. Mhmm. And he’s just been slaughtering these mall employees and mall patrons throughout the whole thing. Then ultimately, in the end, the cops come in and gun him down. But, oh, I just thought it was such a good twist. And the first time that I saw it, like, my jaw was on the floor, like Yeah. Holy crap. That is the coolest concept ever. It’s so satisfying. Idea. Yeah.

Todd:  And it’s cool because it incorporated Krampus, you know, which we had seen in an earlier segment. So it keeps itself pretty well hidden through the whole thing, but you’re right. I guess if you I mean, there were times in which William Shatner is was talking about there were there were things going on at the mall. Right. It was later in the movie where you realize, yeah, something’s something’s going on. He says the cops are there. Please just stay inside. Please stay inside. And he’s going through his own little breakdown too. What the hell is it about Christmas, Bailey Downs? Did we cruise Todd something? Why does this season of love and peace and goodwill keep ending in blood and death and horror? You keep the spirit in your heart. You hear me, people. You hug your loved ones, and you keep them close, and you treat them every Christmas like it might be your last. I thought it was just like trick or treat in that way, in that Mhmm. Trick or treat feels like this the Todd, whatever the name of it was, felt like a special Halloween kind of town.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  It has this history with Halloween, and they set up this Bailey Downs as the same kind of thing that has this history, this dark history with Christmas that these terrible things always happen. And it’s been a while since I’ve seen Ginger Snaps. I don’t know if there are parallels there Todd, but, yeah. Oh, my gosh, dude. I I freaking love this movie, and it was legitimately scary.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, it’s really good. I I do I wanna take a moment to say that Santa slash Norman was played by George Buza or Buzza or however you pronounce that, who we’ve seen in so many things, but he just, like I I feel like this was the role that he was born

Todd:  to play.

Craig:  To play. He’s been in a million things, but he’s as Santa because that’s how we see him mostly in here, he’s almost unrecognizable and and I’ve loved him in so many things. He usually plays small supporting roles, but in this, he kind of takes center stage and he just does such a good job. Like you said, it it really is scary. It doesn’t feel cheap. You know, it’s it’s really well it’s really well written. The stories, even though ultimately the connections are insignificant, like, they they really don’t matter, I still appreciate the fact that they were all interwoven together. I just this this is going to be a movie that I will watch every year. I I I just think it’s fantastic.

Todd:  It really is. I I don’t know how it’s taken us 2 years to find this. I I I do know how. It’s because I don’t think it got a theatrical release. I’m looking, and I’m trying to find, that it has, and I can’t see any box office numbers or anything on IMDB. And the if it was straight to video, it doesn’t deserve to be straight to video. But it looks like, you know, from the from the art that you see on the cover and from what we saw at Netflix, it looks like some cheap knock off. Right. It’s just poorly presented. Honestly, poorly marketed or something. It’s not rated. So if it’s not rated, it’s clearly hasn’t had a box office release. But it’s it’s it’s won some awards. I hope people discover this film, and really boost it up because it deserves every little bit of it. It’s scary. It’s fun. It’s full of the holiday spirit. It’s directly related to Christmas. And in so many ways, it’s very original.

Craig:  And it takes risks. Yes. It’s risky. I love it. I it’s great. I can’t say enough about it. It’s really good. Well, what a way

Todd:  to end the holiday season, Yeah. Thanks again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this one, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Google Play, Stitcher, iTunes. You can also find us on Facebook where you can like our page, share it with friends, tell them more about the movies we do, tell us about what you think of our episodes, and what movies you’d like us to review in the future. Until next time. I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Season’s Greetings! We absolutely loved unwrapping this holiday package. But we can’t say much more about it, since this Christmas-themed horror flick has more twists than a candy cane. So go check it out now on your favorite streaming service and come back here for the full report.

Episode 109, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Well, ’tis the season once again, and this time, we have a straight out Christmas horror film. We don’t get too many of those each year, although they do seem to be increasing with a little bit of frequency. Craig and I were able to find better watch out, which I think was released this year, 6th October. And this is a film directed by Chris Peckover and written by Zach Kahn. For both of them, this is well, this isn’t the first thing Zach Kahn has written. He’s written some TV episodes. Looks like he he wrote for Mad TV. Chris Peckover, this is, Todd all intents and purposes, it seems like this is his very first film. And, you know, it doesn’t show. It’s really well done. This movie is probably the most of Christmas horror films I’ve ever seen, almost to the point where it, like, it makes a point of throwing a sprig of holly or a Christmas light or something in every single frame.

Craig:  And if they can’t

Todd:  do that, then they got the Christmas music playing. What did you think of this film, Craig? This was your suggestion. What made you decide to Todd pick this one?

Craig:  I had just heard of it. Like you said, it gets kinda slim pickings after a while when you’re doing holiday movies. But it seems like this year and I don’t know if it has to do anything with, Krampus, doing pretty well last year or whenever it was that we did that when it came out. But it it seems like there were several new Christmas horror movies this year and I heard about this one when it was being made and it just, I don’t know, it looked intriguing, so I thought we’d give it a shot, and I’m glad we did. It was I don’t know, it’s an interesting little movie. I was really surprised. It’s kind of a coincidence that we just recently reviewed The Babysitter, because this movie has a lot in common with that movie, but, ultimately, they’re quite different too. I think that we should probably say early on that, if you haven’t seen this movie and you’re planning on it, turn this off. You you should you should go watch the movie first because this is a movie that relies pretty heavily on some big plot twists, and of course, we’re going to spoil those. You can find it on most platforms. I think it’s on Netflix now and and Amazon, so it’s it’s pretty widely available. So, take we’ll wait. Go ahead. Go out and watch it and then and then Oh, you’re back.

Todd:  Okay. Yeah. Alright. I hope you enjoyed this. Can we have some of that leftover popcorn? But this movie is through in and throughout a completely a Christmas horror film.

Craig:  Yeah. It is. And but it’s funny because it doesn’t it doesn’t have to be. No. We don’t. Like, it it could take place anywhere, anytime, but they it’s it’s festive. Everybody’s wearing fun Christmas sweaters and going to Christmas parties, and there’s, you know, Santa’s everywhere. There’s Christmas music. So, Todd definitely entrenches itself in the holiday, but, ultimately, the plot doesn’t really have much to do with Christmas. But That’s true.

Todd:  That’s fun nonetheless. It’s not a killer Santa movie or or, you know, rabid reindeer or anything like that.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  But but the warmth of this movie, like, I feel like the movie intentionally took kind of a home alone approach in some ways to how it was shot. It really evokes that that feeling just in the colors and the tones, the use of music, and even even a lot of the camerawork in it. It just if there weren’t so many disturbing things happening in this movie, you you feel like you’re cuddling up to a fire on Christmas Eve, you know, with this with this one, I think. It’s good that way.

Craig:  It jumps right into it. I mean, it when it opens up, the opening credits are in kind of, you know, this very Christmassy scroll. You know, it’s very reminiscent of, like, a Christmas story or something like that. You know, the very first scene is of a snowman and joy to the world is playing, but then right off the bat, you also get a sense of what the tone of the movie is gonna be because the snowman gets decapitated by a neighborhood kid, and the little kid, I guess, who made the snowman chases off the decapitator and says, you buttfucker. Like, I’m pretty sure that’s the first line of the movie. I think you’re right. And so and so you get a pretty good sense of what the tone of the movie is gonna be. And, ultimately, I think that you would have to qualify this movie as a dark comedy

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Because there there’s certainly a lot of humor, but the humor really is quite dark. In fact, this was the second time that I had watched it, and really watching it the second time around I actually enjoyed it more because I was less concerned about, you know, keeping up with what was going on, and just kind of appreciating the writing and whatnot. And it’s funny, but even in the moments when it’s funny, the the humor is is really dark. Yeah. Alt ultimately, this is a pretty freaking dark movie. It is. Yeah.

Todd:  It is a really dark movie, and I think it almost straddles the line of plausibility in some ways. Believability, just because the age of the characters is such and the way that the characters are drawn. The main character in particular, Luke, who starts out as this cute, just normal seeming, what, 12 year old?

Craig:  12. Yeah.

Todd:  He’s so drawn just on the cusp of puberty where he’s a little insecure, he’s starting to think about girls, he seems very naive, and but yet there’s acuteness and naivete that is drawn on with such thick paint in the beginning, just so that later on in the movie, they can completely flip it upside down. And I realized that was a choice that they are trying to make that contrast, but the contrast is so strong that it almost pushes the limits of of believability. You know what I’m saying?

Craig:  Yes. I totally know what you’re saying because that’s exactly the way that I felt the first time I watched it. Now the second time I watched it, I had a little bit of a different appreciation for it.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  So okay. So you’re you’re right. You know, this the the movie opens up this girl, Ashley, who’s played by Olivia DeJeanne. She’s this young actress. She hasn’t done a ton, but, you know, she’s she’s clearly up and coming. Horror fans might recognize her as the older sister from The Visit. Coincidentally enough, the young man who played her younger brother in The Visit is also in this movie. He plays the lead the the kid that you were talking about, Luke. He plays his best friend. His name’s, Ed Oxenbould, I think. Yeah. And the 2 of them starred in that movie together. And I think that this was the very next film that both of them did, so it’s kind of interesting to have had this little journey together. But, anyway, Ashley, we see her driving and she’s talking to her mom on the phone, and we hear through her conversation that they’re going to be moving, in the next couple of days, I think, to Philadelphia or Pittsburgh or something. I it doesn’t make any difference. But she’s doing one last babysitting job for this family that she has clearly babysat for for a long time. And then we, cut to Luke and Garrett, the 2 young men. Like you said, they’re they’re 12. I don’t know. I mean, I guess they’re kind of believably 12. I Yeah. Like, I almost I almost believe that they’re really 12. I do. They’re probably, in real life, more like 14, but they’re young enough. So Luke and Garrett are sitting around at Luke’s house, and they’re, just talking about random stuff. But the notion that we get is that Luke is planning on making his move on his babysitter. She’s, like, twice our age. I really don’t think it’s gonna happen. 5 years, big deal. My parents are 5 years apart.

Todd:  You don’t get

Craig:  it, Luke. Ashley’s a 10. A solid 10

Todd:  and you’re like a, f

Craig:  Love mom. She likes me. I know it. It’s tonight or noon. Okay. Go ahead. Then my brother gave me weed. So instead of trying to bone your babysitter, maybe we could just, you know, puff up. No, man. I’m going through with the plan. I can’t help but maybe spoil some things, but there’s little clues dropped along the way that, set up things later. They just very off handedly have this talk about the scene in Home Alone where the kid uses paint cans to, like, throw them over the banister and and hit the bad guys. And Garrett’s like, oh, it would just happen the way it was in the movie. It would just knock them backwards. And Luke’s like, no. I’m telling you. It would it would totally blow up their head. The first time I watched it, I didn’t even paint I I didn’t even notice that they were talking about it, but, ultimately, it comes up again. So That’s right. It was worth mentioning. And one of the things that I like about this movie is that really those three characters that we’ve mentioned, Ashley, Luke, and Garrett, are are the main characters in the movie. I mean, we get, introduced to some side characters, but the side characters really don’t play all that much of a role. These three characters, in particular, Ashley and Luke, really have to carry the whole movie. And having seen it twice, ultimately, I think that they did a a good job. I mean, that’s that’s a a big responsibility for 2 young actors to carry a feature based almost solely on their performances. And and I I thought they did a pretty good job.

Todd:  The acting is solid in the movie throughout, I think. I I really can’t fault it anywhere. As the babysitter comes to the house, Ashley, she we get to meet Luke’s parents, and Luke’s parents are goofy. He he’s played by what’s that guy’s name?

Craig:  Patrick Warburton. Yeah. The Tick. Yeah. People would know he’s been in a million things. He’s this great big huge guy. He was the tick. He was he also had a big role in Seinfeld. You you’ll totally know who he is when you see him. And the mom is played by Virginia Madsen. It’s not like either of these people. It’s not like I don’t think casting agencies are beating down their doors, but it’s a little bit of stunt casting. You know, these these are famous people. Virginia Madsen has been in just a bazillion things. I mean, she was in Candyman and The Haunting in Connecticut. But and and they’re in the movie so little. You know, they they probably get, I don’t know, 5, maybe 10 minutes of screen time altogether, but they’re fun. You know? The dad is really funny and goofy, and and Virginia Madsen plays the mom as very stiff and and, like, I don’t know. We see the dad, like, looking at the Christmas tree kind of skeptically, and then the mom comes downstairs. And they’re all dressed up because they’re gonna go out to a party. And that’s where they are most of the movie. We don’t see much of them, but the dad’s like, I happen to notice that none of my ornaments are hanging up. And the mom’s like, yeah. We’re not hanging those up this year. And he holds up this ornament that’s the ruby slippers from The Wizard of Oz and

Clip:  You’re sure you’ve never sucked another man’s cock? Not even in college? Not some lost weekend, fishing trip, secret special friend, ever? Not that I can recall. Because honestly, Robert, this is

Todd:  so Metrosexual?

Clip:  That’s not even the word. It’s metro. Metrosexual. A lot

Todd:  of like gay things.

Craig:  And it’s such a silly joke, but

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  It’s it’s funny. The whole movie is

Todd:  setting up this tone at this point. It’s very affable. You know, everybody is just, it’s just easygoing and a laid back tone. You would really think you’re watching just another one of these holiday films where some hijinks are gonna happen.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And it’s really laid on thick here, and I actually enjoyed that. I thought it was fun. It kinda got me in the mood. If you’re gonna watch a Christmas movie, you might as well watch one, You know? Sure. She ends up giving a lot of instructions to the babysitter. One important thing that she notes is that Luke has been having trouble with sleepwalking, And so she has a sort of bizarre contrived instruction, which is to dangle this pencil wedged kind of between the door Craig and the knob to his door, and it’s done in such a way that you know this is gonna be significant later on.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And also, she tells him that she needs to feed the babysitter needs to give him the sleeping pill so that he doesn’t sleepwalk, I guess, goes through the night. So there’s that really important element, and and except for that, then the the parents just leave and, go on to their party. That leaves Luke and Ashley in the house. And there’s just some nice back and forth between them, you know? They’re obviously really close. Like you said, it’s very reminiscent of the babysitter where you could tell that these 2 have a great relationship. Right. They talk about how she’s leaving and how much she’s gonna miss him. And the same time, because we have this information that he’s gonna try to make his move, these scenes are really interesting, I think, in that we’re looking for those moments and we’re kind of wondering how what his plan is, right? We’re looking to see his plan unfold, and that’s a really entertaining aspect of it as well. And again, it doesn’t seem like a horror movie right now. And then he pulls out a bottle of wine or champagne and she’s like, what are you doing? You’re not allowed to do that. You’re too young, give it to me. And, anyway, there’s more by play between the 2 of them, and she ends up drinking some as well.

Clip:  Oh, I don’t know.

Todd:  There’s some there’s some unexpected pizza that arrives at the

Craig:  door. Right? Yeah. Like, at one point, she says she’s gonna order some pizza, but then she forgets. But then, it shows up anyway, and and that kind of sets up just all of a sudden weird things start happening.

Todd:  Yeah. These little tense moments.

Craig:  You know, they’re sitting and watching a horror movie and it’s funny if you listen to what’s going on in the horror movie, it’s totally reflective of what’s going on with them. Yeah. Like, oh, there’s somebody outside. There’s somebody at the door, you know, like, it’s it’s totally parallel to what’s going on with them. And ultimately, what happens is there’s somebody outside.

Todd:  And there’s also this aspect where the back door keeps opening.

Clip:  Right.

Craig:  For some reason.

Todd:  And I have to say, like, all of these moments were genuinely tense and terrifying.

Craig:  Yes.

Todd:  I thought this was really well done, and I’m I’m not usually this way, but I was pretty well on the edge of my seat during these these bits. With the jump scares in here, very effective. You don’t really see them coming. They’re not just jump scares, but they’re also sinister. Yeah.

Clip:  Oh, yeah.

Todd:  Really well constructed 10 or 15 minutes of the film right here, I think.

Craig:  Oh, absolutely. I I totally agree. You know, I was on the edge of my seat because it’s one of those things where, you know, we, the audience, can kind of see things that characters don’t see and so, like, they don’t really realize maybe that they’re in peril yet, but we know. And so, yeah, it’s a it’s a tense thing. And so then when when there’s a knock at the door well, I guess we should say meanwhile, she’s been kind of talking back and forth on the phone to her, boyfriend, which has obviously been annoying to Luke. And then there’s a there’s a knock at the door and there’s nobody there. And at some point, she asks for him to toss her her phone, and he does, but he because he’s drunk, apparently, now on champagne, it falls short and it lands in the fish tank, and so they’re kind of cut off. But there’s this knock at the door, and nobody’s there. And, but Luke is, like, no. I’m gonna be brave. I I know Taekwondo. I’m gonna, you know, I’m gonna scare him off or whatever. So he opens the door, and it appears that there’s nobody there, but then all of a sudden somebody tackles him, to the ground and lands on the Todd. And it’s it’s pretty scary. You don’t know who it is. I jumped. Yeah. I did too. Too good. It’s the, you know, this hooded figure, but it turns out it’s Garrett and Garrett’s just kinda messing around. Well, Ashley’s really mad and she’s, like, it’s not funny, you know, We thought you were a bad guy or whatever, and she’s like, what were you doing creeping around in the backyard? And he’s like, I wasn’t in the backyard, And then all of a sudden, they hear a window break upstairs. And so Ashley and I have to say that in this part of the movie, I was like, this girl is a badass babysitter. Like like, she’s she’s awesome. Like, she is just on it. Hey. What’s that for? Luke, where’s your phone? My parents took it.

Todd:  I I have one.

Clip:  Okay. Dial 911. I’m going up there. If I scream, press send and hide. Got it? Okay.

Craig:  You’re awesome. Like, you’re a great babysitter. You deserve that $10 an hour. So so she starts to go upstairs, but then they follow her because they’re scared, and they see that a brick has been thrown through the window. And so, and they try to get online, like, they try to the movie establishes for us that they’re cut off. Like, the phone line is cut. The the wireless connection is down, and so Luke and, Ashley run downstairs. I don’t even really remember why, but the I guess they’re checking the car, like, they’re gonna get out of there and they find out that the tires are all slashed. But anyway, then Garrett comes down holding the brick and it says, if you leave, you die. And then I feel like, you know, they’re they’re hearing other things and Garrett’s like, I’m getting out of here. So he takes off through the back door and he runs and it looks like he trips a wire maybe or something or just maybe that there’s somebody else out there, but he gets shot and he goes down and you see blood spray on the snow, and, Ashley sees all this, and so then she is, like, okay. We we have to get upstairs. We have to hide. We have to hunker down. Does do your parents have a gun? And Luke’s, like, yeah. And in this moment, she’s, like, laying at first, she’s laying on top of him because she, like, tackled him down, but then she’s laying next him, like, they’re laying behind the couch taking cover. And it’s just kind of a sweet moment where she really kinda takes control and is, like, this is what we have to do. And he’s clearly really scared and Yeah. And Craig, like like, it’s really intense. Like, at this moment, I’m, like, this is you know, the best friend has just gotten shot. Like, I totally didn’t see that coming, and, you know, it really seems like they’re in this mortal danger. And I was like like you said, I was very much on the edge of my seat. I had no idea and and this is early, you know, we’re talking like 20 minutes into the movie, So, I had no idea what was coming and and and then the next 10 minutes of the movie turned into this home invasion movie and I thought it was one of the kind of scariest home invasion movies I’ve seen.

Todd:  I know. It was for me too. I don’t know how or why, but maybe it was just the way it was shot, maybe it’s a subject matter, maybe just at this point we’re so invested with these people and it seemed so believable. And also probably because of the fact that I think, you know, home invasion movies, right, there’s sometimes it’s just people are at home and there’s an invasion. Right. Sometime it’s like the purge and there’s like this whole world where people’s homes are getting invaded. Right. And then sometimes it’s there’s something going on, like there’s a family gathering or there’s some kind of reunion, you know, like Right. You’re next.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  This this movie has your next written all over it, clearly inspired by that film. And in those kind of films where there is some occasion or gathering or what whatever happening, I mean, no matter how you slice it, all you’re really focusing on is there’s gonna be a home invasion. Whereas in this movie, it has set us up to this point. I mean, we know it’s a horror movie. I mean Right.

Clip:  We’ve

Todd:  presumably seen the trailers. We we chose it because it was a horror movie, but our brains have just mentally been engaged in this alternate story essentially of him. I think it’s it’s just it’s it’s clever plotting. I think is what I’m trying to say

Clip:  because we’re so engaged in this story,

Todd:  and our brains are kind of wondering, like, how is he gonna what is his plan? You know, how is he gonna make out with her? What’s going on? Then when the home invasion part comes, I think it just like short circuits us a little bit, and and it just makes it that much more terrifying that our brains have to suddenly leap forward into something they haven’t been preparing for, much like a person in a home that’s being invaded is engaged in some other activity and suddenly is thrust into the situation. I think psychologically that that is what makes this so scary and makes it work so well, you know, thinking about it. There’s only so much you can do. I mean, a house, one house is kind of the same as another house. Right?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Or at some point they’re gonna be hiding in the attic or maybe at some point they’re gonna have to hide under a bed or in a closet. I mean, it’s hard to make something completely new. Right. And this movie isn’t that new. You know, it doesn’t have those kind of fresh elements in it, but I think it’s just elevated and heightened because of everything that’s built up before it, everything that’s led us to this point. It’s also kinda funny because they run upstairs and they go into the laundry room, which we had seen earlier, which has this eerie blue light, I guess, from the LEDs on the Yeah. On the laundry thing, but also has the sound, you know, of the clothes still going. And you know how that is, like, even though they know there’s a danger outside, it kind of gets muted by the by the sound. It lulls you into, you know, there’s background noise. It it it’s like having the TV on in a an empty room, you know. It’s psychologically it makes you feel like maybe you’re hiding under the covers, like maybe you’re okay. And then they decide that he’s gonna go get the gun, and he runs to get the gun and comes back, and they somebody pounds on the door, I think. I think they look out into the hallway and they see that there is actually a person in there, clearly a person in there with a mask, kind of hooded mask on his face and a flashlight and a rifle. I mean it’s it’s pretty much in your face somebody’s going through here and it looks very much like an adult, you know, going down the hallway And they decide they’re gonna run up into the attic, which is accessible through the laundry room, which is funny because when they were watching the horror movie, she’s going, don’t go into

Craig:  the attic, you stupid. Oh, why did they

Todd:  ever go

Clip:  to the attic?

Craig:  So they do.

Todd:  They go up into the attic, and I love these Hollywood attics. You know, it’s it’s like another floor of the house. Right. Right? We all had attics as large as the attics that they have in Hollywood. We would just finish them off, and we would add, like,

Clip:  the house.

Todd:  An apartment. Right? Yeah. Exactly. And they have a little bit depth there where they’re hiding, but that gets gets broken up because she’s a spider falls on her and it’s been established earlier that she was afraid of spiders and at one point he even catches a spider and lets it go. And so, all of this has kind of been foreshadowed earlier on.

Craig:  Well, and that’s one of the things, especially watching it the second time, that’s one of the things that I appreciated because I didn’t notice that when they were, watching the horror movie that she was like, don’t go in the attic. That’s so stupid. But then the second time I was watching, I was, like, oh, that’s hilarious because they go in the attic later. And there’s there’s lots of that going on. And that scene that you’re talking about where they’re in the attic and this the spider falls on her, and she almost falls out, like like, she does fall out, like, through the I don’t know what those attic doors are called, those trap doors that come out of the ceiling. She falls out and, like, he catches her and grabs her. And I think that part of the reason that all this is so effective is that the performances, they really first of all, they really seem really scared, and secondly, they really seem concerned about one another. And and so, you know, their relationship, I think, makes their peril even more frightening. Like, you you don’t want anything to happen to them. You know? Like, Yeah. It’s almost like their brother and sister or mother and son or, you know, like, you want them to be okay. And Yeah.

Todd:  And and you then your expectation is that that’s what this movie is about. It’s about how the 2 of them are going to get together not because he wants to bang her. Right. They’re gonna form a closer bond because they’re gonna get through this ordeal together or something.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  Yeah. So, they come downstairs and oh, that’s the point where he leaves to go get the gun and he leaves her. And I just think there’s some great tension in the scene as well because again these these jump scares that we get are pretty pretty darn effective and one of them is that the laundry Todd. Yeah.

Craig:  There’s just a beep beep and Like, what?

Todd:  I jumped, and she does too. And it’s that the laundry is finished. And then we’re met with silence because now that background noise isn’t in there anymore. Just so clever, you know, how how they they made these moments in these unique ways, in this film. I I just I was very impressed. Anyway, he comes back and he’s got the gun and he decides that they need to make a run for it. So they go run out and into his bedroom and oh no he he’s coming. So they hide in the closet and they look through the slats in the closet, that classic thing, to watch as this guy is looking through the bedroom and she happens to notice. She says, wait a second. Isn’t that your mask that the guy is wearing? And instantly, it clicks for her, and she bursts out of there and yells at the guy who gets startled and says, Garrett, take off that mask. And at that point, Garrett pulls off the mask, and it it turns out to be him.

Craig:  I was legit surprised. I didn’t see it coming. I you know, these types these types of movies, I feel like usually they’re pretty predictable. I usually know what’s going on. I had no idea. I thought we were in for a full blown and that’s why I say I told listeners, I told Todd, if you don’t know anything about this movie, don’t read anything about it because I I think that the surprises are the most fun part, and and I didn’t see this coming. And so she pieces together that they that this was all a prank. We were gonna scare you.

Clip:  Yeah. Well, you did. You scared the shit out of me. Why? Why? Why would you do that?

Craig:  I was gonna go save you, but dipshit here.

Clip:  Luke, your friend is holding a real gun. This is serious. How could you do that?

Craig:  Because you treat me like a child.

Clip:  And what? You were gonna show me how much of a man you were by rescuing me from fake armed robbers? You are a child. I almost broke my neck. What delusional infant thinks that staging a break in is gonna get you to 2nd base?

Craig:  And she storms out, and she’s, like, I’m calling your parents. And he’s following her, and she’s walking towards the stairs, and he’s just saying her name over and over and over again, and finally at the top of the stairs, she turns around and says, what? And he slaps her so hard that it knocks her down the stairs and she is unconscious at the bottom of the stairs, and Garrett comes running out and goes, what did you do? And at this point, I’m still thinking, oh, my Todd. I I can’t believe that just happened, like

Todd:  Like he killed her or something.

Craig:  Right. Right.

Todd:  Accidentally. Yeah. And and I so I

Craig:  still didn’t know where it was going. And so then the next thing that we see is this classic that you get a million times that, you know, the waking up point of view shot where it’s very fuzzy and it’s eyes opening. And there’s music playing, Christmas music playing, and Garrett is, riding around on a scooter and, Ashley looks down and realizes that that she’s taped up to the Craig, and then all of a sudden, Garrett and Luke’s dialogue becomes super crass. I guess maybe some 12 year olds talk like that behind closed doors, but something that you would think more of, like, you know, 15, 16 year old boys, just really crass. And the movie takes this immediate tonal shift. All of a sudden, it becomes something else entirely. Like, whereas before it had been a home invasion movie, now it’s almost something like funny games, and we realize or we come to realize very quickly that Luke is a freaking psychopath, like, just out of his mind Craig. Like, the first time that I watched this movie, I might have been drinking a little bit.

Todd:  Come clean. Come clean.

Craig:  And I thought, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know if I’m buying it because then what we have to accept for the rest of this movie is that this is a 12 year old Patrick Bateman, like, from American Psycho. Like, he’s just an a 100%. I’m not a doctor, so I don’t know the right definitions, but sociopath or psychopath or whatever. Like, he’s just crazy. The first time I watched it, I thought, you know what? I really like this concept, but I’m not sure the kid can pull it off. I’m not sure that this 12 year old or however old he really is in real life can pull off this level of crazy. Watching it the second time, I was a little bit more forgiving and sober.

Todd:  Are you saying that the Drake clouded your

Craig:  And I actually thought for a young actor, especially by contrast with how he was in the first half of the movie, this kid does a pretty darn good job of playing this crazy.

Todd:  He does. I don’t know. I maybe I’ll have to see it a second time to come to a similar conclusion. I was I was willing to go along with it for most of it, and that was a distracting element to me. Maybe it was that way for you for, you know, for your first time through as well. It was distracting that I kind of had to consciously force myself to suspend my disbelief with this guy, and yeah, maybe if I in retrospect looking back on it, I’m sure there were probably clues that were dropped earlier on. We don’t really see him outside of the company of others during the whole setup. Right? We still see him with his friend. We still see him with his parents and stuff. So we don’t ever get a an what what I would like, an objective judgment of his true character. We don’t ever have an opportunity or moment for that. So it’s I guess, you know, you can you can go back and say, yeah. He’s just that manipulative all the time, and he’s always, you know, putting on a mask. So, yeah, I’m willing to I’m willing to lean and say, okay, I’ll go with it. And he more or less pulled it off, and, it didn’t it didn’t harm my ultimate judgement of the movie by the end of it. And I think the the key to that for me is that the other interesting question that naturally arises and continues to be a question through the whole film, how much of this is his friend willing to go along with? How much of this have they discussed in advance? How much of this is how how crazy does his friend, Garrett, really realize this kid is? You know, is he going going to go along with everything that happens? Is he a part of the whole plot up to this point? You know, in the babysitter, for example, just by way of comparison, it’s like all of the other characters in that movie were almost just a psycho as the babysitter was. They were all there with the same purpose. And you’re kind of wondering as this plot goes along, at what point is Garrett gonna break away from what’s going on. And he shows lots of little signs. Again, I think really skillfully written quite honestly. These little signs here and there of where he might be uncomfortable with what’s happening. But for reasons we don’t completely understand, he’s still either willing to write it off or willing to go along with what Luke wants him to do.

Craig:  I I think that what he knew was that they were going to try to scare her, or in that very first scene when they were talking, Luke was reading a magazine. I don’t know if it was Cosmo or I don’t know what it was, but it was, like, you know, ways to win a girl or whatever. And they’re like, watch a horror movie because when girls are scared or or when people are scared, it releases endorphins and, you know, I don’t know. Whatever. But it it seems like, Garrett knew that they were going to try to scare her, but I think that that was it. I think that everything that happens after that was a surprise to him and that he just kinda keeps going along with it, and it seems from the beginning, like, Garrett is kind of the rebellious one, like, he smokes weed and stuff, and the mom even says, you know, when she’s talking to the babysitter, that Garrett’s a bad influence on Luke. Keep an eye on him. But, ultimately, I think that what we’re supposed to understand is that Garrett is just a monkey. Like, he’s, you know, Luke is totally manipulating and using him, and I think that Luke had most of this planned out from the beginning, and and that just slowly gets revealed over time. Like, it seems like these things are happening by accident and by coincidence, but ultimately, it it turns out that this is all going according to Luke’s plan. And there are these little hints dropped here and there, like, one of the first things they’ve got are tied up, one of the first things they do is play truth or dare. And it’s all very sinister. I mean, you’ve gotta watch the movie in order to see the way that the the kid, Luke, the way his character changes. He was so sweet and dewy eyed in the beginning, and then all of a sudden now his his whole affect has entirely changed. And, he’s very slick and snake like. And just even the way that he talks is different. And and, again, the first time I was watching this, I wasn’t sure how well it worked because I felt like he was kind of trying to the actor. And I I give him total credit because he’s a young kid, and this is one of his first big things, and he does a great job. But it it kinda seemed like he was kind of trying to impersonate other crazy characters from movies. Like, I got a lot of Patrick I got a lot of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho. I got a lot of Norman Bates. And, you know, if this kid were drawing inspiration from those characters, kudos. Good job, kid. You know, those are those are good inspirations to draw from. First time around I was, you know, questioning does it really work? But anyway so they they play truth or dare and, you know, Garrett’s like, I dare you to touch your tit. And he’s just you know, again, it’s just kinda highlighting how he’s 12. You know? Yeah. And and and so, in a very creepy and sinister way, Luke does, and he asks Ashley how did that feel and she’s, like, feels like I just got felt up by a little boy. And, like, I I also like her toughness. Yes. There are times when she tries to pacify him and when she tries to rationalize with him, and, she does that in, you know, a subtle way, but there are other times when she’s just full she’s just sick of his bullshit, like Mhmm. This is True. This isn’t cute. It’s not funny. Stop it. Like, you’re 12. I’m your babysitter. Knock it off. And, but he just doesn’t but we we find out that when when when it comes to her turn, she’s like, Luke, truth or dare? And he says truth, and she says, did you ever tell Garrett that you killed his hamster? And I guess that Garrett had or Luke had killed Garrett’s hamster at some point. Yeah. And that causes conflict between the 2 of them, which I think is what she was trying to do, which is smart. But it just we get these little revelations, and then later on, you know, when the the drama is heightened, she says something to him, like, you don’t wanna do this. You know? When when you when Garrett’s hamster died, remember how upset you were, and you came to me and you cried when you told me about it, and he leans in and he says it wasn’t an accident. So we just know that he’s crazy and we know that the stakes are high, and then he’s just got this whole manipulative game going on and all of a sudden, you know, all these new pieces start to fall into play. The the doorbell rings, and who is it?

Todd:  Well, now first, before the doorbell rings, he tells her that he’s he’s going to get her to drink. She’s like, your how your parents are totally gonna find out about this. And he says, nope. You’re not because you’re gonna drink all this stuff, and you’re gonna pass out. And when you wake up, there’s you’re not gonna remember this at all. He’s basically he’s got a roofier. Yeah. And so that is at the at the point where we think, okay. This was his plan. And this is the point at which I think the movie, it keeps sending you these twists, but it also does stretch credibility a little bit because you do get to that point where, like, how much of this would really could possibly be planned out in advance, both people’s reactions and the events that unfold And the timing, right. Yeah. It stretches a little bit of credibility. In any case, at that point the doorbell rings and they go to get it and, they look out and it turns out to be her boyfriend who, yeah, we we more or less like she he wanted to come over but she told him not to, so it’s not completely a big surprise to us that maybe he he ended up dropping by. But Garrett freaks out and he’s like, what am I supposed to do? And immediately, Luke looks extremely concerned. So they, like, flip on the music real loud, he asked Garrett to go out and take care of him. And Garrett goes out there, and the boyfriend manages to get inside, and he’s looking for her. And they tried to kind of hide her in the kitchen and whatnot and, Garrett tells him that she’s upstairs. And so when he goes upstairs, Luke follows behind and basically and through a whole bunch of stuff happens, but Luke ends up hitting him in the head, knocking him out with the baseball bat. And he gets up again, and there’s more tussling. He ends up taking him out with a baseball bat, and I thought when he whacked this guy the second time that this guy was dead. Yeah. And this happens in front of Garrett, and Garrett’s like,

Craig:  what did you just do?

Todd:  But then the next scene is that he’s tied up next to her, and he’s come to again. And so now we have the boyfriend and the girl, and it comes out through their conversation that he texted. Luke texted the boyfriend to tell him to come over from her phone. Right. Which wasn’t, you know, somehow I didn’t quite catch how ducking that in the water didn’t didn’t kill her phone.

Craig:  I don’t know how he did it as quickly as he did, but when he takes it out, he unwraps it like it was wrapped in plastic.

Todd:  Plastic or

Craig:  something. I don’t know I I don’t know how he had the time to wrap it in plastic in the 30 seconds that she was away from it, but whatever. It’s fine. It ends up the 2 of them there. And and there’s lots of talking, but it’s not boring. Like, it’s, it’s tense. You know? He’s he’s toying with them. All the while, everything that keeps happening, everything is a revelation for Garrett. Like, you just get the sense that, yes, Luke is masterminding all of this and Garrett is totally in the dark. He has no idea what’s going on. At one point, Ashley has gotten a piece of glass, and so, like, every once in a while, you see her trying to saw away at her tape. They’ve got the both of them there, and there’s lots of back and forth. At one point, he tells them that he wants to watch them bone, and they’re like, no. And he’s like, I’m just kidding. I’m not a pervert. Like, he no. All just this weird dialogue.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  But eventually I don’t even remember exactly how it happens. There’s stuff with Garrett. Luke at one point tells Garrett to go relax, so Garrett goes and smokes some weed, and that makes Luke mad because then the smell of weed is gonna be in the house. So then he makes, the boyfriend well, I don’t even remember what his name was. Do you? Ricky. Ricky. Yeah. So he makes Ricky take a puff off the joint, and he’s like, it has to be in his system. It’s evidence. And either Garrett or Ash is like, what do you mean in his system? And they drag Ricky out into the parlor, like, where the front door is and the staircase is, and there’s suspense built up to it, like, it takes a while, but, ultimately, just as Ashley kind of frees herself from the chair, she’s still kinda connected to it. Luke, totally Home Alones. Ricky, like, with the paint cans, and it’s nasty. Like It’s really nasty. And I actually kind of appreciate that somebody finally did this. Like

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Show what would really happen because that movie, I love that movie. You know, it’s a Christmas classic, but that is one of the most masochistic movies in the history of cinema.

Todd:  Any one of those things that happened to those guys in that movie would send you to the hospital if not killed.

Craig:  Oh, right. And to show to show what would really happen, like, the guy I mean, they don’t show it in graphic detail. We just see the aftermath. But, basically, it just implodes his head and, like, the whole room is just splattered in paint and gore, and it’s, oh, it’s horrible. And then you think It is. And you think Ashley’s gonna get away. The kid Luke has now also invited her ex boyfriend over.

Todd:  And at this point, I’m not sure if it’s if we’re supposed to believe that Luke had all this planned out or that Luke is just so clever that as things kind of go wrong, he has a backup. And I think we’re meant to believe that this entire thing at some point is Luke’s plan because too much of it would have to be in place already.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Like too many of the props would sort of have to be there, you know. It just fits together a little too neatly. It’s not the story of of a guy whose plans get foiled, and so he’s tripping all over himself and making a bigger and bigger mess trying to cover up his tracks. It’s the story of a guy who, in retrospect, we’re supposed to believe had planned all this out. And that leads to a lot of questions, which I think we’ll probably talk about here at the end after we get through the plot. Ashley runs out, and it turns out that that trip wire in the backyard just shot paint pellets Yeah. Or something like from a pellet gun at him. And she falls down, and it turns out the neighbors aren’t even there, so nobody sees him. Luke actually makes an interesting reference here. He says, Oh, the wind guards are not are out for the 2 weeks or whatever. And, I don’t know if you caught this, but I immediately thought because I was thinking of You’re Next the whole time. Adam Wingard’s the director of You’re Next, so it was a clear nod, you know, to that movie. She gets tied up again, but this time with Christmas lights.

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  And this Jeremy, you know, comes over. But Luke won’t let Jeremy in the house.

Craig:  You said she wanted to see me. She wants you to apologize. For what? Shh. Don’t wake the neighbors. I could give a She said that you’d know. Fine. Where is she? I’ll apologize. She wants you to write it down.

Todd:  So he writes down something on the paper. Later Todd, we find out that it said, Ashley, I’m really sorry for everything that, that I did. I love you forever. In the meantime, inside there’s a moment here between Garrett and, Ashley. I

Craig:  don’t know why I’m doing this.

Clip:  Because you’re a good person. Okay? And you didn’t know any better, and you didn’t know what he was capable of. Just untie me. Okay? We’ll run across the street and we’ll call the cops.

Craig:  The look will freak out if he finds out you’re gone.

Clip:  He won’t hurt you. Okay? I I won’t let him.

Craig:  He’s my best friend.

Clip:  No. He’s not. Luke doesn’t give a shit about you, Garrett. He uses you. He manipulates you. No friend would put you through tonight.

Todd:  And while that’s happening, after Jeremy has written this note, he’s sitting on a swing. There’s like a swing set in the tree. After he’s written this note, Luke runs up behind him and throws a noose around his neck and hops on a lawnmower, which is attached to the end of a rope. All this is swung over the tree so that he could quickly pull him up, and basically hangs him

Clip:  Mhmm.

Todd:  And makes it look like the guy hung himself by standing on and then kicking himself off of that swing. Right. Basically he’s intending to frame Jeremy for all of this. Yeah. Jeremy got upset, he came over, he killed everybody, and then wrote the suicide note and then hung himself. But at this point, Garrett inside the house has had finally his change of heart which I we were really hoping would happen.

Craig:  There are little moments in here where it’s just really kinda sweet. Garrett’s kinda just this pud character, but then in this moment with Ashley and I think a lot of it is accomplished through kind of extreme close ups on their face.

Todd:  Craig.

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, you feel bad for poor Garrett, and, like, Ricky had already said something to Garrett. Like, why do you hang out with this kid? And he’s like, because he’s my best friend. And Ricky was like, are you sure about that? The performances are so strong that you really kind of feel you feel for these characters. You feel you’re you’re scared for Ashley, but you feel bad for Garrett. Like, this poor kid, like, he didn’t know what he was getting into. You know? This isn’t him. He doesn’t wanna kill people. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so then he, and it’s a sweet moment, and, obviously, she’s trying to manipulate him. You know? Like, she’s trying to be super nice to him, so he’ll let her go. Regardless of that, it’s still kind of a sweet moment when she kind of threw her by her bounds, you know, holds his hand and then he ultimately says, I’m so sorry, you know, that this happened and, he gives her a little kiss on the cheek. And then as he’s untying her, He just gets blown away.

Todd:  I mean, you talk about how dark this movie gets. This this just broke my heart. This is where Luke ends up shooting him. He shoots him once, with the with the shotgun, and he looks pissed off about it. Like, why did you make me have to do this to you? And then he shoots him again and just dead.

Craig:  Well, as as Garrett’s sitting there, like, wide eyed, like, you shot me. Like, I’m dying. And this other kid is just yelling at him, like, I told you you couldn’t touch her. I told you, why did you do that? And Garrett looks at him and starts to say, I want my mom, and Luke just blows his head off, Like and then and then Luke is, like, breathing heavily like he’s upset, and then he just looks at Ashley and says, he was starting to get on my nerves anyway. Like, this kid is such a freaking psycho. But, you know, I think

Todd:  the movie would have been so much better without that line. It’s a line that’s supposed to just dismiss it. Like, this guy can just flip a switch in his head, and this isn’t affecting him. Whereas, I felt like this scene was structured so that he would be affected. Mhmm. There was a real discord there that I’d that scene without that line would have been so much more powerful, and that line just just wants you to throw it all away.

Craig:  I understand what you’re saying, but I have to respectfully disagree because I think that that line just further goes to show that he’s he’s just a total sociopath. Like, he he really ultimately is not concerned with anybody but himself. And

Todd:  Even his even his close friend who he confides in and all that. Yeah. I mean, there are you know, that’s fine.

Craig:  And then another big twist. Okay. So it’s just him and Ashley left, and he sits down next to her and he starts telling her this story about and it’s been established early in the movie that he sleeps with one of those, like, beating heart machines or whatever. So he sits down next to her and puts his head on her shoulder much as he did when they were watching the horror movie. I remember my mom used to tuck me in. I’d hold on to her and never let go. She felt so safe. I just fall asleep. Then she stopped. I don’t know why. And now I don’t sleep well anymore. She says, you were never gonna let me go, were you? And he’s like, nope. And, then she says, I know why your mom stopped rocking you to sleep, and he’s like, why? And she just closes her eyes and won’t answer. Like, she’s just being entirely defiant, and he kind of freaks out. And then he gets up behind her. And, again, I just have to credit this movie for doing things that I just didn’t see coming. He takes his pocket knife out of his, pants and opens it up and stabs her with this pocket knife to the hilt in her neck, and you hear the blood come gushing out and she’s dead. Like

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Like, what? Yeah. And and, like, earlier in the movie, she had said you’re not gonna get away with this, and he’s like, I’m the Houdini of getting away with things. And, like, he cites all of these things that he had gotten away with. And it’s it’s creepy because kids Yeah. Are like that. You know? They can they can manipulate things, get away with things, but, to think at this point in the movie, I’m like, holy shit, he’s gonna get away with this.

Todd:  This is the point where it hit me. Yeah. He’s got this perfect alibi that he’s been given the sleeping pill, you know. Right. So he could conceivably have slept through the whole thing. All he needs to do is jump into bed.

Craig:  Well, and he sets he sets up the pencil. Right.

Todd:  And he almost doesn’t make it. I mean, there’s a whole real tensing moment here too where that whole pencil deal gets him into another jam where you think that he’s gonna be up and around by the time his parents come in. Right. They’re coming right to the door and he hasn’t You can’t set this pencil from inside the room. It’s really it’s really kind of fun, this this last bit. But he does. He sets the pencil. He gets in there. He lays down, and sure enough, all you hear is his mom coming in and screaming downstairs, and they’ve discovered everything. And the next scene is minutes later, there are police surrounding the house, presumably up and around, and he’s being rocked by his mother against her chest just like he said he missed, you know, when he was a kid. And so it seems like this is gonna be the end of the movie. Suddenly, mother kind of leaves, and we hear, off in the distance, a policeman say, this one’s still alive. They have Ashley out on a stretcher taking her into an ambulance, and he looks down the window at her, and she looks up and sees him up there, and she holds up her middle finger as she’s being put away. And we get just a throwaway light kind of in the background. 1 of the, one of the attendants there says, oh, yeah. She used a piece of duct tape to stop the bleeding. Real smart girl.

Craig:  I thought that ending was so clever. You know, you get that light, how did she survive? Oh, she used a piece of duct tape to stop the bleeding. Clever girl. And then as Luke is looking down from his bedroom window in his, you know, Christmas pajamas and he’s kind of, like, you know, shock on his face, and she just flips him off. Oh my god. I just thought it was genius. Like, my partner and I I I made him watch it with me, and, we both just laughed out Todd, like, yes. That’s hilarious. And then so they they roll a little bit of the credits, and then they cut back to his room and we just see Luke facing the camera saying, mom, I’m worried about Ashley. I think maybe we should go to the hospital, which is great. You know, this it’s not a perfect movie for whatever reason. I don’t know. I I I in talking about it, I I kind of am at a loss for what it is that I think that it’s lacking, but, it’s it’s it’s fun, and there are so many surprises. I think especially if you go into watching it not really knowing much, if anything, about it, that you’re going to enjoy it far more than if you go in already kind of knowing what the twists are going to be, because and and this I kind of feel like this is rare for me. I watch so many horror movies that usually, even when things are clever, I can kind of see them coming, and that’s okay, but there were so many things that happened in this movie that I just really didn’t see coming and they were legitimate surprises and, it was it was a lot of fun. I had a lot of fun watching this movie.

Todd:  I did too. I really enjoyed it. To be quite honest, and I don’t know, it sounds like I’m gushing, but I haven’t really enjoyed watching a horror movie for a while. You know, I mean, not to say I haven’t enjoyed, but I haven’t really been surprised

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  By a horror movie. I haven’t really been scared or kind of on the edge of my seat like I was with this one. This one really pulled me in many different directions, and I really liked it. There are some things though that, upon further examination, just kind of make the plot fall apart. I think the biggest question I have in my mind is who threw that brick through the window while all of them were inside the house?

Craig:  Okay. Now watching it the second time, I was very cautious in watching about those things because when you first see it, especially in the home invasion part, it seems like there’s several people, like and and, ultimately, it just ends up being Garrett. Well, after they knock Ashley out, you see Luke go around and cleaning stuff up, and he pulls out, like, this, poster board silhouette away from the window. When Jeremy, the second boyfriend, comes, when he’s coming into the backyard, he trips over something, and he’s like, what is that? And then it it shows the hole in the window. I think that was supposed to be some kind of slingshot. Now how they set this how they set this all up and controlled it remotely, I don’t know, but I think that they at least attempted to fill in those holes. They melt they may still be a little bit holy, but I I think they I think they at least tried to tried to, cover those bases.

Todd:  Okay. Well, that fair enough. That’s good. I didn’t catch that part. You know, obviously, the whole fact that so much of everything has to be perfect and so much of the characters’ reactions to things have to be so predictable for all of this to go according to Luke’s plan that that it’s really hard to believe that this would happen.

Craig:  Sure.

Todd:  But I guess my my other bigger question is, I’m still a little unclear as to what Luke’s endgame was. Did he really want to end the night by killing off, his babysitter and all of her boyfriends? Was that I think so.

Craig:  I think so. I think that ultimately he hadn’t planned to kill Garrett. I thought I think that Garrett would’ve would’ve made it through the night had he just done what he was supposed to do, but I do think that he had planned to kill Ricky, Jeremy, and Ashley.

Todd:  So, you know, you saw it a second time. Was there something at at the beginning where was it just that he was so mad that she was leaving or something? Were there hints to

Craig:  I I to

Clip:  that at all?

Craig:  No. I don’t know. I I I think he was just a psychopath and and and legitimately believed that he could get away with it. And they do that whole thing with the gerbil, I think, to just show us that he’s fascinated with killing and capable of killing. I think that was the whole purpose of that. But, yeah, I mean, I I I think that he was murderous in his intent.

Todd:  Yeah. It just makes you wonder, like, what if she had just, you know, made out along with his advances?

Craig:  Yeah. Exactly. Right? Would he have changed? That might have been a different story.

Todd:  Because the whole time I’m watching this, I’m still thinking at the back of my mind, well, he still wants to make out with her, and he’s not taking advantage of, you know, the situations that she’s he’s got her in at all. The the finally, like, the duct tape thing, come on. She was still tied up when Yeah. When he stabbed her in the neck. There’s no way.

Craig:  Oh, well, but but Garrett had started to cut off her stuff.

Todd:  Yeah. But that would mean that she would have to sit there and play dead for as long as he stood there and stared at her after he pulled the knife out and watched the the blood, you know, flow across the floor Yeah. Just for him to leave the room and her to somehow grab some duct tape. I don’t know. That’s that’s Fair fair enough. These little things. Yeah. You know, whatever. I mean, it’s not that important quite honestly because I’m really I was really impressed with the film. And I think also, like, you know, I was really surprised that I enjoyed the film because I’m not really one for these nihilistic sort of terrible people doing horrible things to others kinda movies. Yeah. And this movie really really is one of those. Yeah. You know, I was really mixed about your next, you know, and when the whole time I’m watching this that movie just kinda kept coming up into my mind. But I just think like what you said, I think that’s that somehow there’s just a pathos here that I don’t find in those other movies that gripped me and kept me from hating it like that.

Craig:  Yeah. You

Todd:  still feel gross at the end of it because it’s so dark, but,

Craig:  I don’t know those final moments. I I walked away feeling giddy. Like, the fact that she survived and she just flipped him the bird and his his his plan as as meticulous as it was and as close as he came Todd getting away with it, just the knowledge that he wasn’t Even with Even with

Todd:  the post credits kicker where he’s, like, you know, presumably gonna go to the hospital

Craig:  to take

Todd:  her off, you get this idea, like, she’s been able to be so tough and defy it this far along that you imagine that that’s not probably gonna work

Craig:  for you. Right. Right. Right.

Todd:  Thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook where you can like our page and have a conversation with us about this movie. You can also let us know any other films you’d like us to see in the future. We’re gonna be doing, at least one more holiday movie next week for our Christmas episode, so please stay tuned for that. Until then, happy holidays and I’m Todd

Craig:  and I’m Craig

Todd:  with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Sorry for the lateness of this week’s (last week’s!) episode. In keeping with our holiday-ish theme, we went with a film that, although it technically takes place during Easter, should still put you in a holiday mood with all the snow, sweaters, and celebration. Red is the color of the season. Enjoy our take on the Norwegian horror film, Dead Snow.

Episode 108, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig.

Todd:  Today, we are continuing our December themed horror films and, you know, we try to get holiday movies during this time of year. Although, as we always say, pickings get pretty slim the more we do this podcast. So we have to we have to stretch a little bit. If we’re gonna keep up this this theme, we have to go for things that are maybe just sort of set around wintertime, or even in this case, just when there’s snow on the ground. So this movie, I think, technically, because one character mentions it at one point is takes place during Easter. But you would never know, because, all you see is snow and people out having a good time on vacation. So we’re gonna pretend that this is December, and, Santa Claus would be coming over the mountain, anytime now at this resort, where these characters are, and the film is called Dead Snow. It has the word snow in the title, so it’s it’s really gonna put you in the holiday spirit, I think. This is a Norwegian film from 2,009. There’s been a follow-up to it, Dead Snow 2, in 2014. So, quite a few years later actually. And to be completely frank with you, the reason why we put this here isn’t just because it’s snow themed, it was rather convenient. We had a request for dead snow 2, Red versus Dead, and I happen to really enjoy that movie. I think it’s superior to this movie, but it seems really strange to review a sequel, right out the gate when we haven’t even reviewed the first one. And in this case, in particular, Craig hadn’t even seen the first one. So Right. We really felt like we couldn’t do the sequel justice until we had the first one to compare it to because the 2 do correlate quite a bit. So, this is Dead Snow, and it’s a Norwegian film. And it’s What did you think of it, Craig? I always start out by talking about what I think of the movie. I’m curious as to your take first.

Craig:  Well, a couple of weeks ago, we talked about Scout’s Guide to the Zombie Apocolypse. And when we watched that movie, I said the zombie genre of horror is really not my favorite. I stand by that.

Todd:  Okay. Yeah.

Craig:  I don’t know. I mean, I we’ll get into details. I thought it was alright. Well,

Todd:  okay. No. I I think that’s fair. To be honest, I think it’s alright too. I don’t think this is particularly a standout movie in most respects. It’s certainly not original. In fact, it’s almost the opposite. It almost makes a nod to every horror movie cliche and director and film in every scene. Right? It’s so derivative of so many other movies. The night of the living dead series, dawn of the dead in particular, some of these kills are straight out of there. Some of the cinematography and gore is straight out of the evil dead. There’s just a lot of these nods, and at one point, even one of the characters is wearing a shirt, a t shirt that’s brain dead, which is the New Zealand the original New Zealand title of Peter Jackson’s movie dead alive, which is quite good. So this movie, even though it’s doing this, I think it’s doing it with love, and it’s doing it so obviously that you can tell that they are under no pretense here. You know that they’re making anything original. It’s like this movie is a tribute to these kind of all out gore splatter zombie films.

Craig:  Sure. And I appreciate that. I I really do appreciate when, you can tell that the makers of a horror movie are are really true horror fans and and that they want to give little tips of the hat to other movies. And characters in this movie mention, you know, Friday 13th, Evil Dead. They they mention these things by name. There’s there was a cute little nod even to Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. Yeah. Like, so I I appreciate that. And and it it it by no stretch of the imagination is it a bad movie, you know, I thought that there were some things going on. And the characters were, you know, clever and not totally run of the middle. You’re right, not totally annoying. As I’ve said before, and I’m sure there are people out there who will disagree with me, it’s kinda when you’ve seen one zombie movie, you’ve kinda seen them all, and, you know, in this one, they’re Nazis, and so that’s different, I guess.

Todd:  The writer director of this film, Tommy Wirkola, I mean, he did another movie before this, which was a takeoff of Kill Bill called Kill BuJo or something like that. This is his second film, and, it’s pretty good for a guy’s second film, especially Sure. Considered he wrote and directed. But he said when he sat down to do this, he thought, okay, well, what’s worse than zombies? Nazi zombies. And, you know, there’s a very, very, very small subgenre of zombie films that is the Nazi zombie subgenre. I mean, there might be, like like, a dozen, half a dozen. Maybe you could count them on one hand. That’s how many there are.

Craig:  That’s funny. But, you know,

Todd:  it’s such a good idea. Like, I don’t know. I really like this notion, and maybe it’s because in this case, the zombies have a sort of built in character. With a lot of zombie movies, the zombies are just people who died and for some reason are resurrected. Right. This case, the people who are resurrected as zombies are already they’re already the evil Nazis, and there’s a military sort of aspect to it as well. These these zombie Nazis have their uniforms on, you know, and then they act like soldiers in many respects. So it’s it’s kind of a neat conceit that I wish I saw. Honestly, I wish I saw more Nazi zombie movies being made. I think I think there’s something there to make it really well, it’s still gonna be a zombie movie, and you’re right. There’s still only so many things you can do with it. Yeah.

Craig:  And, you know, and it’s a little unique. I I read I didn’t write it Todd. I should have. But, I guess that these zombies are a mix between your traditional zombies and kind of this other Norse I think it was Norse, entity that, like, inhabits graves and, like, protects Treasure. Right. In these graves. And and that’s what these zombies are about too. So it’s like they’ve they’ve kinda got some motivation. It’s

Todd:  a purpose.

Craig:  Yeah. They’re not just randomly out, you know, killing whoever. You know, they’re they’re protecting their precious.

Todd:  Just thinking of the Leprechaun series. Right? Right. I am minoxidomb, and you have my gold. Exactly. Right. But that’s, I mean, that’s what kinda makes this film a little more unique. I think you have to give it a little bit more credit. Right? I do. Yeah.

Craig:  I do. I do.

Todd:  So there’s a goal. Right? And the reason the zombies come is because somebody’s got their treasure. Right. It opens up the way so many of these movies open up. Like, seriously, we’re probably not gonna go scene by scene through this film. But but but, I mean, honestly, you could take any scene out of this movie and draw a mind map of how it points to 15 other movies just like it.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s

Todd:  just it’s just a series of cliches strung together. And, of course, it’s 4 young adults in a car driving

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  To a secluded cabin. That’s it’s not in the woods. It’s up in the hills and mountains of Norway. And they’re going on vacations. Four guys, Their names are Martin, Vegard, Erland, and Roy. And they all have these very thinly drawn characters, which we basically know because the next scene is the girls driving up to meet them. Right. And in that scene, one of the girls says to another girl, so tell me about the guys we’re gonna meet. And the other girl starts rattling off their character traits. Well, Martin’s the attractive, studious one, and, Vegard I don’t know. Vegard has a bike, I guess. Erland Erland is a movie geek and won’t stop talking about movies, and Roy is probably the horniest guy I have ever met. Like, thank you for saving us the trouble. Right.

Craig:  It’s so funny. Like, okay. So this movie is in a different language, and so, you know, you have to read subtitles or whatever unless you do the English dub, which I rarely recommend. And I watched it with the subtitles. Usually I do all kinds of research and I write down all the characters’ names and their actors’ names. I didn’t have time to do all that, so I was just watching it and I was trying to keep track of who all these people were. So I just wrote down all their names, real quick. Got that off of IMDB. Yeah. And then next to them next to them, as I was figuring out who they were, I was, like, writing down their their defining characteristics.

Todd:  And so I’ve

Craig:  got Martin, glasses. Okay. Characteristics. And so I’ve got Martin, glasses. Okay. Roy, smart ass. Okay. Veyegaard, cute. Sara’s boyfriend. Okay. Erland, movie buff, fat. Okay. And that’s that’s pretty much their their characters. Hannah, dreadlocks. Got it. Liv, the blonde one. Okay. And Chris, the new girl. Alright. There we go. We’ve got our entire cast of characters. And, you know,

Todd:  you’re better than I am because, I try to just write them down as they as the names come up in the movie, and Liv’s name did not come up until, like, the last 10 minutes of the film. It drove me I know. Nuts. I just, finally I wrote a big underline in my notes, and I’m like, blonde girl. Right. But it’s it’s fitting too because, honestly, all these characters are pretty I can’t even really say they’re cardboard cutouts because they don’t necessarily adhere to these traits so strongly, you know. Yeah. They’re all just pretty vanilla, and we just get to know about enough just enough about them to care a little bit about them as the movie goes on. But otherwise they’re pretty thinly drawn.

Craig:  You’re right. I I think that they are thinly drawn, but in some ways that almost makes them even a little bit more realistic. Like, they don’t push these big stereotypical characteristics on them. They’re just kinda all of them are just kind of average Joe’s hanging out. Mhmm. And maybe that’s a little better than forcing these ridiculous stereotypes. I mean, Erland, the overweight movie buff, is pretty stereotypical. But beyond that, they’re, you know, they’re they’re they’re a bunch of med students on Yeah. We’re pretending Christmas, but really Easter break. And, they, you know, so so they’re going up to this cabin. You didn’t mention there the very first scene is somebody running through the the woods in the dark. Right. And I I thought I thought it was a guy at first, but eventually we get a close-up. And I’m, like, oh, wait. That’s a chick. She’s running from these unknown assailants, and, eventually they get her and kill her. And we come to find out later that that was Sarah who was Vergard’s girlfriend who actually owns this cabin that they’re going to.

Todd:  She’s supposed to meet them there. Yeah.

Craig:  Which is I don’t understand this really. Like, they all drove there, but she was gonna, like, cross country ski there. Yeah. Like, over this huge mountain range. Cool.

Todd:  It’s true. But what I’ve gotta say about this movie, and and you kinda touched on it a little bit there, is that all these characters are actually the fact that they’re kind of normal makes them pretty likable. Yeah. Sometimes we’re talking about, okay, so it’s a bunch of assholes who, you know, are stuck together. And in this case of the movie, I felt like these were people I’d wanna hang out with.

Craig:  Yeah. Sure.

Todd:  They go up to the cabin. They’re all probably in their mid twenties or whatever, and the first thing that these they do is they go snow tubing. Right? And Uh-huh. They’re, like, having snowball fights, and they’re playing Twister. And they’re not just, like, ducking into the corners to make out and drinking beer, making asses of themselves, you know?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And, they’re waiting for Sarah to come. They park their cars down by the road, and then they have to hike to the cabin. Although, Vegard, I guess, he’s planted a snowmobile there earlier or something. I’m not quite sure. Or did they take it off the back of one of the cars? I’m not sure. But, anyway, he takes the snowmobile out ahead of them, And so their way, actually, to find the cabin is to follow his tracks. So he knows where it is because he was Sarah’s boyfriend. So they follow the tracks to the cabin. He gets there a little earlier, and it’s a pretty small cabin, but he lights a fire, and, pretty soon they show up, and then they have their fun. And then it’s that evening when, they get a little spooked. I think it’s, Liv maybe goes to the outhouse and she has kind of a creepy scene out there where we think somebody might be stalking her, and she runs into the cabin, and it turns out that there’s a guy who knocks on their door. And again, this is so movie cliche. It would’ve been more cliche if they’d run into him, you know, at a gas station, 5 miles out, but, in this case, it’s the older guy who comes, knocks on their door, and says, you crazy kids don’t really know much about this area, do you? He tells them a story. He says that, yeah, you know, around here back at world during World War 2, this was an important convoy stop between Russia and Britain for the Germans. And there was a group of them here, a platoon or whatever, and it was led by colonel Herzog. Whereas, in many cases in Norway, the Germans would get along with the locals more or less. In this case, they terrorized the locals, and so as and and they went in and at one point stole all of their gold and silver and jewels and watches and things. Just went door to door and looted all the people in the Todd. And if people didn’t like it, they just shot them in the head. And so, as the war was wrapping up, the townspeople decided to take matters into their own hands, so they went up with sticks and pickaxes and whatever weapons they could find, and they took care of this German platoon, Chased them up into the mountains, and they really weren’t ever seen again. So that’s the backstory that he delivers after he has some coffee, which he insults, after he asks for beer, which he drinks, and then rolls up a cigarette, which he smokes and puts out in the coffee that he didn’t like. The guy helps himself to everything. But, you know, he’s a good storyteller, and this scene was just again, it’s a scene out of these movies too, and it’s pretty economical. But it’s told like a campfire story.

Craig:  Yeah. But it is it’s so stereotypical and so silly because we have no idea who this guy is. We have no idea where he’s there. We have no idea what his purpose is except for to provide exposition. And then so, like, he says he closes his story by saying something like, there’s an evil presence here, one you wouldn’t want to wake, and then, like, he he gets up to leave and Roy, the smartass one, says something smartass and he like grabs Roy by the throat and he’s like, oh, you’re a medical student, Well, what would you do if your intestines were hanging out and you were holding them in your hands? Or what would you do They

Todd:  teach you that school.

Craig:  I don’t even remember the other things. Yeah. And then he just leaves, and, they’re like, oh, well, that was

Todd:  weird. Why they’re not a little bit more creeped out and maybe don’t get the heck out of dodge at that point. I’m not sure. The intestines line is pretty important, I think, because it seems to be a running theme through this entire movie.

Craig:  Oh gosh. I know it’s it gets really silly actually, but that’s okay. Then Vergard I had to go in like, I took all these notes, and then I had to go in and write their names above their descriptions because it took me so long. So originally, I had cute guy sees someone come from under the house. So, like, he wakes up he wakes up and he sits up in his bed and he sees somebody crawling out of this, like, trapdoor under in the floor. And we’ve seen this is where they’re keeping their beer, like, under the house, I guess, because it’s cold there and there’s, like, a trapdoor or whatever. He sees somebody coming up out of there and what and this person walks outside and he follows and he thinks it’s Sarah and so he keeps calling her name his girlfriend. He sees her and she’s standing there, but then she spits out a lot of blood. And then he sits up in bed and it was all a dream, which I don’t know. Like, this that that scene just seemed a little bit out of place. I guess it was it was like, okay. He needs a reason to be worried about her Yeah. Because because in the morning, he’s he’s he’s gonna have a bad feeling, and so he’s gonna go off and look for her. Like Pretty dumb. I felt, oh, I had

Todd:  a bad dream, so I’ve got a bad feeling. That she hasn’t shown up yet isn’t bad enough, you know.

Craig:  And then we cut to a scene of that creepy guy, who we don’t have any idea who he is or where he came from, and he’s in a tent. I don’t know. I guess he lives in this tent on the mountain. I I still have no idea.

Todd:  Unclear. You’d think that a guy who had this much warning about the area wouldn’t be camping out on the mountain. But,

Craig:  Right? Like like like, the zombie Nazis, like, are they just always around? Like Yeah. What is that? And, like, the townspeople know, so they just stay away. Like, I I don’t know. But, anyway, so he’s the aside from the opening scene where we saw Sarah get killed, this is the he’s the first one to get killed and he you know, it’s suspenseful. He hears something and he goes out and he’s looking around with his flashlight and then he kind of, brings his flashlight up on a zombie, but then something runs by him really, really fast and he, is just standing there and then he starts gurgling like, and we find out that his throat has been cut. And as he’s bleeding out from his throat, he retreats into his tent and then one of the zombies comes in and attacks him and he’s dead. And you know one of the things okay. So I’m explaining all of this just though it’s important, it’s not. But that was one of the things not that necessarily bothered me, but that I made note of. The the build up to this movie takes a while. Like, I feel like you almost get halfway into the movie before or at least half an hour into the hour and a half movie beef before the the real action starts to happen. And it’s not boring up until that point, but I was just kind of thinking, alright, they’re in a cabin in the woods. There are Nazi zombies. Let’s get to it. Like, what are we doing? All the numbers. Come on.

Todd:  Right? It’s the thing that bothers me about this movie is the motivation. And like you said, are there always Nazi zombies out? Again, I compare this to the Leprechaun movie where they find this gold and it’s the Leprechaun’s gold and that brings the Leprechaun to them. In this case, it’s the same idea, but before anybody finds any treasure, any of the stolen zombie treasure, we’re already getting zombie killings, you know, Nazi zombie killings. That’s a little problematic in my opinion.

Craig:  Yes. Because the next thing we see is, like, they’re partying, whatever they’re having a good time, Erlin goes to get more beer and, he finds in their under the house beer cooler this box, and it’s a box full of, like, gold and, you know, jewelry and stuff. In Sarah’s cabin. And that’s the thing. Like, how did it get there? Like, who put it there? When did it get there? Like, did somebody just recently put it there and now the Nazis are coming for it? Or, like, it’s been there for years years, but only now the Nazis are coming for it? Or they’ve been around all this time and they still haven’t found it? Like, I don’t understand

Todd:  it. It’s really unclear. It should be more clear. It because the movie makes a point of being really consistent about what it takes to appease the Nazi zombies. So it’s really important why they came out in the first place and got awakened. You’re right. He he he has an Indiana Jones quote, which is the writing is not the best, but it it it’s clever at times. At other times, it’s just a little too on the nose. And I feel like every time Erland spits out a movie quote, it’s like, oh, yeah. Gotta remind us that Erland is the movie guy.

Craig:  And he spits them out in English, which is always Yeah. Funny. And I don’t even know, like, he said okay. So they find this box of treasure and he opens it up and he says, fortune and glory, kid. Fortune and glory. And he says it in English which, you know, obviously, I’m, like, well, that’s weird because they don’t speak English. And so then I’m, like, wait a second. I I recognize that. What is that from? And it took me a second. I was getting ready to Google it, and I’m, like, wait. No. I know this. It was a temple of doom with short round cute stuff, and, like, I I like those little Todd. Great. Whatever. But the the the conceit of the treasure, it’s I mean, I get it. It provides motivation, but it’s so unexplained, like, it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense, but whatever. Who cares?

Todd:  It’s a great conceit though, like, the whole concept is cool. Yeah. Nazis who are dead who will come back to life to protect the treasure that they’ve stolen. Right. It’s really cool. It’s like the unstoppable evil. It’s the evil that continues, you know, even through death. It it’s so cool. It’s just so unevenly, you know, laid out in this movie. I if I remember correctly, the second the sequel of course, the sequels are, you know, it’s already set up, so whatever. But in the sequel, they’re a lot more consistent about this matter.

Craig:  Well, and that’s the thing too because the characters don’t know what the zombies motivation did is. Mhmm. And I I suppose if they did that it would make for a much shorter and less entertaining movie because they could just hand over the loot, but, you know, so it it seems like these zombies are just killing indiscriminately because that’s what they do. It’s not until the very, very, very end that one of the characters realizes, oh, well, if I just give them their pennies back, then they’ll be happy. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. In the meantime, I don’t know if we’ve mentioned it, but Vegard had taken off on the scooter to find Sarah. So it’s the others here who find that, and they they decide to like have a party with the gold. Like this is like throw it like literally throwing gold coins up in the air and like wearing the earrings and just playing with it, basically. And I think

Craig:  Oh, it’s it’s just like that scene out of The Goonies when they find the treasure and they’re, like, putting on all the jewelry and, like, stuffing things in their pockets, like, woo hoo. And I think the point

Todd:  of this is in retrospect that the I Todd set this idea that every one of them has a piece of this treasure on them at some point, because you, like, you see somebody, like, slip a coin in their pocket and somebody else kinda, like, slips something up their sleeve or something like that. Right. So in retrospect, I think we’re supposed to I mean, it’s not there’s not a point made about it, but I think that’s kind of the point. Anyway, Erlen goes out to go to the bathroom in the, outhouse, and Chris, who has been really warming up to Earth Flirting.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Comes out and, basically mounts him in the most romantic place possible. Right?

Craig:  This is disgusting. Yeah. I’m so This guy’s sitting. Gross. No. It’s it’s worse than that, Todd. Like, he goes out and he takes he goes out and he takes a dump. Fine. Everybody poops. It’s all good. But then, like so then he wipes his butt, as you know, after you go to the bathroom. But then she comes out right after that and straddles him on the toilet. Okay. I mean, I guess, you know, they’ve gotta get away somewhere private. He’s already got his pants down, so fine. Convenient. Whatever. But then, I don’t even wanna say it. She she grabs his hand and goes to suck his finger, and he’s like Yeah. And he’s like, ew. No. Don’t. Like, he literally just wiped his butt with that hand, like, 5 seconds ago. And even he is like, ew, no. Don’t. I just wiped my butt, but she does it anyway.

Todd:  Yeah. And then Pretty gross.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s disgusting. This girl’s a freak. And then she

Todd:  But, you know, the whole time, what I’m thinking, during this scene, damn, it has gotta be super cold. Yeah.

Craig:  I was thinking the same thing especially because, like, she takes her top off, and I was like, you wouldn’t take it’s too cold. Leave your top on. I’m pretty sure I remember correctly that she’s wearing pants, but somehow I don’t know. She may

Todd:  As she get these off. Yeah.

Craig:  She manages to get them off as she straddling him, and they bone on the porta potty outhouse, whatever. Right. You know, in in in retrospect, it’s really kinda funny, you know, taking whatever opportunity they could to get away from everybody else. It’s kinda funny, and it’s funny when Erland walks back in, to the cabin and he’s just kinda strutting and he’s got this big look on big grin on his face and they’re like, did you see Chris? And he’s like, yeah. That’s all he says.

Todd:  All of her.

Craig:  Yeah. And, so then we cut back to her. I guess she needed to pee afterwards or something. So she’s still out there. And, she sees, one of the Nazi zombies peeping in at her, and she kinda freaks out. And she’s alone in the outhouse somehow, which I’m not sure I really understand, but somehow she gets pulled down into, like, the toilet part. Did she get pulled down or did it just happen to break or something? I I wasn’t even sure of that. I’m still not sure. All I know is she crawls back out covered in shit, and then Yeah. It’s really tough. She tries to make her way up to the cabin, and she’s she’s bleeding, like, she’s been impaled or stabbed in her abdomen. And and I still don’t know. Like, I don’t know if she was supposed to have been stabbed because all these zombies have these great big, like, bayonet knives. I don’t know if she was supposed to have been stabbed or just injured in her fall. I don’t know. But anyway, she starts making her way back to the cabin slowly, and she’s screaming, but they’ve got loud music on so they can’t hear. I think, Hannah eventually kinda hears something and turns it off, and they hear her scream, and she’s making her way towards the door. But just before Hannah opens the door, one of the zombies, like, attacks her and knocks her out of Craig, and so Hannah doesn’t see her. So they don’t know yet what’s going on. So they send the guys out to check stuff out.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s it’s interesting because actually, I think this movie is pretty well filmed.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  The suspense is there, you know. At a point, it it ceases to become suspenseful because it’s a zombie movie, and so everything’s just kinda happening out in the open. It’s more of an action film, I would say, after a while. But, but at the beginning anyway, when it’s more of a suspenseful horror film, I think that these sequences are really shot well. Maybe it’s just because they’re called from so many other sources.

Craig:  I don’t know. I would but I would agree with you like as in terms of quality, you know, it’s it’s pretty good. The acting is pretty good. The cinematography is pretty good. The one thing that I will say about the cinematography is that there are a couple of scenes that are pretty bad green screen shots. Right? Yes. Don’t you think so?

Todd:  Sure. Oh, absolutely. They stand out like like a sore thumb. They’re that bad. Yeah.

Craig:  I mean, it it looks like they filmed it at, like, the local news station in front of the green screen. And and there are lots of times when there’s blood just flying, just splattering, and it’s so clearly CGI that it Yeah. Pulls you out a little bit. Practical effects could have done you a lot of good here. And, you know, I don’t know. I have this was filmed But they did.

Todd:  They did a lot of practical facts.

Craig:  They did. They did. And so it makes me wonder why in these certain scenes it it looks so hokey, but who knows? Maybe it had to do with budget. Ultimately, it there’s so few and far between that it’s kinda like, okay. I I can forgive you for that. Yeah.

Todd:  Well, Hannah notices a there’s a gun above the door, and so the guys take the gun when they go out to look around, and they basically come back to the cabin having found Sarah’s pack, but no, no Chris. Right. And, so they’re in there, and they’re kinda wondering what to do. And Hannah sees Chris’s head in the kitchen window, and she’s like, oh, thank Todd. And then that head gets pulled up, and it’s actually severed. And this become begins That was cool. I thought that was cool too.

Craig:  I liked it. Mhmm.

Todd:  That might be one of the few original moments in this movie, honestly.

Craig:  It didn’t scare me, but No. One of the scarier moments when her head pops up and you we know she’s dead and and but but the other the girl doesn’t and, until then the the severed head kinda goes flying off to the side. That was good. But then it’s it’s then the the zombie siege, you know, like the zombies start attacking the cabin and it’s kind of scary and fun and it’s kind of funny because these characters react in a more realistic way than characters often react in these kind of movies and in that way I don’t wanna say that it’s meta because it’s not really meta. But, you know, it’s like these these characters are aware of zombie movies, you know, like

Todd:  They know what they’re in for right now.

Craig:  Right. And and because they know what they’re in for, they’re freaking out. Like, they’re screaming and freaking out and, like, Erland, the one who is the movie buff is, like, he’s Craig, like, oh, no. And he’s, like, don’t get bit. Don’t get bit. Yep. Which is so funny, but I can just that would be me, like, hiding in the corner crying, yelling at people, don’t get bit.

Todd:  Yeah. It’s funny. It it was good to put Erlend in this movie. It’s good to have a character kind of like that one guy in Scream. You know? Yeah. He’s gonna be Almeda and talk about movies in the midst of a movie about the movie that they’re in. But he’s the first one to go.

Craig:  And that really surprised me. I kinda figured he’d be around for a while.

Todd:  Well, he again, I felt like he’d be the guy in Scream who’d be kinda telling them what they need to do and what they shouldn’t be doing. But and and, honestly, he might have been the best drawn character up to that point.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  But, no. You’re right. He gets he gets he gets taken out in a pretty brutal way, and I think it’s straight out of, one of Peter Jackson’s movies where he’s pulled out halfway out the window and a couple of zombies, like, basically grab his skull from either side and pry it apart, and his brain even flops out onto the floor. And and at this point, they’re all staring at this having happened. I think it’s, Roy who says, I told you we should have gone to Sunny Beach.

Craig:  Yeah. Todd definitely has his clever moments. It definitely had moments that made me at least smile, if not laugh out loud. Like, it’s not hilarious. You know, there are some movies like Tucker and Dale or, you know, any number of other horror comedies that I’m laughing out loud. This one, I don’t laugh out loud so much at, but, you know, it Todd does have its moments. It’s cute, clever moments.

Todd:  I think there’s and I it’s not like I’m an expert on this, but I think there’s a distinctly Scandinavian brand of humor that this taps into.

Craig:  Yeah. I bet there is. Yeah.

Todd:  It’s kind of dark. It’s a little understated at times, but it’s still also a little over the top at times. Todd doesn’t get into hilarious like, Shaun of the Dead territory, but it but it really treads that line, but it does it in a very straight way.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. Like they all play it extremely straight in this movie.

Craig:  And you’ve already mentioned it, but credit to the actors, you know, they’re they’re believable and and reasonably endearing and and so, you know, you’re invested in what’s going to happen to them at least. You know, I didn’t care necessarily who was gonna die and who wasn’t, but but, you know, I was I was at least interested to find out.

Todd:  Yeah. And and that’s kind of the thing, like, I don’t really feel like this movie is that scary.

Craig:  No. No. I I don’t think

Todd:  it’s just because we’re so jaded. Like, hardly anything has scared us anymore. Right? Right. In this sense, I don’t really feel like anybody watching this movie would be terribly scared, because it’s it’s almost at this point that it becomes a pure action movie. Oh, you know everybody but one person is gonna live is gonna die, and so you’re just waiting to see how it’s gonna happen, and most of it happens during the day, and pretty much out in the open, and all of the and at this point I think all of the suspenseful scenes have pretty much passed.

Craig:  Yeah. But this is also a point where I kinda didn’t understand what was happening. So Vergard has been out looking for Sarah, and he found the dead creep guy. And so, you know, he’s kinda panicking, but then when he’s looking around, he falls in this big hole. Okay? So now he’s lost in, you know, we don’t know what’s going on. He’s in this underground snow cave.

Todd:  4th or something.

Craig:  The other guys in the cabin have just been besieged, which seemed like it happened at night, but then when we cut back to Vergard, it’s still daytime. And then and then when we cut back to the cabin, it seems like it’s daytime again. So I guess the whole night passed.

Todd:  And the siege just stopped?

Craig:  Yeah. They’re all they’re all just huddled in a corner and they’re, like, all of a sudden it’s really quiet. Why is it so quiet now? Good question. I wish that the movie would have answered it. Like Yeah. Like, they’re being besieged by this zombie horde, and then all of a sudden it’s like the zombies just go away for a while. Like Yeah. What? And so I was thinking, oh, well, they must only be able to come out at night, but, no, that’s not true. I I I guess it was time for their break. Like like, they needed they needed to go have a cigarette or something.

Todd:  Even even Nazi zombies gotta sleep, man.

Craig:  But, anyway, so the people in the cabin are trying to figure out what they’re gonna do, and and they know they don’t know the way back to the car because only Vergard knows the way back to the car, but they decide, alright, we need to split up. Somebody needs to go either try to find the car or try to go find the fjord. Like, what? Like, there’s a fjord? I don’t even know what a fjord is, but okay. And some of them have to stay as, like, distractions for the Nazi zombies. And so they decide that the guys are gonna stay and the girls are gonna go off. And so then we’ve almost kinda got these 3 parallel movies going on where the girls are off, you know, exploring and getting chased by zombies. The guys, Martin and Roy are back at the cabin distracting the zombies, and Vergard finds out that this cave that he’s fallen into is like the under the snow Nazi barracks. And so, like, they’re they’re all just fighting zombies off on their own. Like, they’re let’s split them all up so they can just all fight zombies separately.

Todd:  This is what this movie has been trying to get to this whole time. Its reason for existence is just to basically show people fighting these Nazi zombies and a ton of gore. Yeah. Like I said, it’s like an action movie. You know, Vegard has a big battle where he impales a Nazi through the eye and on a tree. Another Nazi zombie runs after him, and this this zombie that he had just impaled to the tree has his intestines hanging out. And somehow, when this other zombie comes to grab him, he happens to grab this this zombie’s intestines. And so this zombie, like, basically runs him off a cliff, but because he’s still holding onto these intestines, they spool out of the zombie impaled on the tree, and this is what they’re hanging by off of this cliff as he’s trying to beat back the zombie. It’s one of, I don’t know, half a dozen intestine scenes that we’re gonna get in this movie. There’s, these are really strong intestines that these

Craig:  Yeah. It’s ridiculous.

Todd:  But but it’s part of the comedy. I mean, it’s clearly a running gag after a while, you know, and so and I feel like this is, again, one of these Norwegian, like, senses of humor things that were that’s just a little off. I mean, it’s funny, but it’s maybe not as funny as it would look to another audience. I don’t know. That’s my guess anyway. So yeah, they do this, and, then the Hannah and Liv are running. Hannah takes out a zombie. Zombie punches out Liv, and she wakes up. I thought this was actually neat. This transition where Liv gets punched by a zombie, and you see this from Liv’s point of view. The very next shot is is obviously time has passed, but Liv’s eyes are open, and again we’re seeing this from her point of view, and it’s all blurry and stuff, and she looks down and we realize that the zombies are like pulling her intestines out.

Craig:  Right. They’re eating her, I guess.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. But specifically her intestines.

Craig:  Yes. It’s important.

Todd:  And she reaches over in her almost death and pulls a grenade off of one of these zombies belts and sets it off, which then Hannah and a few other people see from the distance, and which seems to wake up the Nazi general and his better troops, his officers, if you will.

Craig:  I’m I’m so glad that you just explained that to me because I had no idea what was going on. So I I knew that they, were, like, pulling out her intestines, and then I saw her grab something, but I thought it was a flashlight and I’m like Oh, yeah. Why does she need a flashlight? And then and then Hannah sees this big explosion, and I was like, what blew up? Yeah. That I missed that entirely.

Todd:  The grenades that the Germans used looked like, little batons, basically. You know, they weren’t like our style where you pull a pin, you squeeze it, and you toss it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s what that was. And so Well,

Craig:  you learn something new every day. Well, there you go.

Todd:  Little bit of of war history, a little bit of military history for you in this movie. It it just keeps giving and giving, that and anatomy. So at this point, it feels like it’s it becomes almost becomes a war movie, you know? Yeah. And that’s kinda what I liked about. I mean, this I thought was a cute aspect of the movie Todd, because at this point, the the guy who we don’t even need to be told, this guy is the Colonel Herzog because he’s the one who looks different from the rest of them.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And he’s the one who looks badass. He sort of steps into frame, and he’s got, like, his Nazi, like, commanders next to him and a line of Nazi soldiers behind him, and he even pulls out a set of binoculars and looks out. You know, like, he’s getting ready to order his troops to attack. Mhmm.

Craig:  You

Todd:  know, like, he’s got some strategy, And that’s what makes this a little different from your typical zombie movie. That’s why I kinda like the whole Nazi angle is because they incorporated a little bit of this into it. It just felt like a war movie at this point.

Craig:  Yeah. Well and eventually, Hannah battles some more zombies. Like, she ends up in a tree, and then they find her up there, and she jumps down and kills 1.

Todd:  The tree part’s cool, though. She climbs up this tree. Like, it’s wintertime. There are no leaves. I don’t know how she feels like this tree is gonna give her any cover. Right. She’s up at least she’s up higher than these 2 Nazis who are looking for her, And she happens to be up by a little bird’s nest, and this this bird starts attacking her. And so she grabs the bird and, like, beats it against the tree, like, 4 or 5 times viciously to get it to quiet down. I thought that was pretty cool.

Craig:  It was funny. It was funny but you, like, you totally saw the punch line coming a 1000000 miles away. Like, as soon as she kills this bird, she looks down and the Nazis are just standing down at the bottom of the tree looking up at her, like Yeah. And then one of them starts climbing up, and so she I feel like she grabs a broken off branch or something and jumps down and stabs the one still on the ground in the eye and runs off, and then she ends up on this huge cliff. And, the other nazi, who for some reason that I don’t understand is in, like, a white rain poncho. Yeah. What was that about? Like, did they wear I guess maybe they wore white rain ponchos in the

Todd:  I don’t know. I felt like maybe he got it off the the guy in the tent that they killed earlier or something.

Craig:  I don’t know. Anyway, so they end up on this cliff and she stomps so that the snow drift that they’re standing on falls off the cliff and they both fall down.

Todd:  Yeah. Like thousands of feet.

Craig:  Yeah. And of course, we cut away from oh, she’s dead. Let’s cut away from her. Of course, she’s not dead. We come back later and she’s still alive, but, I think that my favorite part is then we cut back to Roy and Martin and they’re like defending the cabin. And Roy or one of them, I don’t remember which one, One of them is making these Molotov cocktails, and as soon as he’s got it made, the other one, like, is like, okay. Throw it. And he, like, moves away so that the zombies can get in. And the guy throws the Molotov cocktail and totally just hits the wall of the cabin and sets the cap on fire. That was so funny.

Todd:  Martin gets on his cell phone and tries to make a 911 call.

Craig:  I know. I wish I wish it weren’t in a different language because I I would love for you to play this clip because it was so funny because he’s like, we’re in the mountains and something bad is happening. We’re being attacked by Nazis who’ve been here, like, I can’t even remember, like, but it’s just so ridiculous and the 911 operator hangs up and the other guy, whichever one it is, is like, don’t tell them that. Tell them it’s terrorists. They’ll be here with helicopters and bombs in, like, 10 minutes. But then, of course, conveniently, the battery dies. Yeah. So so they end up battling more, and they have to get out of the cabin. So they, run to like, one of them sees a shed, you know, like 50 yards away or whatever. They’re like, we have to run to the shed. And the other one’s like, what good is that gonna do? And he’s like, I don’t know, but what else what other choice do we have? So they run there and they get in there and it’s like a tool shed, and so there are all of these, like, instruments of death all around. And one of them is like, you know what we’ve gotta do. Right? And the other one’s like, yep. And so it’s a great setup.

Todd:  Evil Dead rip off down to the sound effects in the cinematography, the zooming in and the Yep. Yep. And this is when they come out of the shed, and they’re badasses. And the 2 of them take on a whole line of Nazis, zombies running, across at them, across the field, and they totally get completely gory, bloody all over their faces, which is You know, none of the characters really wipe their faces at all during this. I’m not sure.

Craig:  They’re covered in blood. I I could have watched probably just this last 15 minutes of the movie and thought, oh, yeah. This is a badass movie. Like, this last 15 minutes was a lot of fun. It really was. And so so ridiculous and so unrealistic. You’ve got these 2 guys armed with lawn tools, and like they’re just taking on wave after wave of these Nazi zombies and just annihilating them, cutting off their heads. One of them, I think it’s Roy, has, like, a little, like, a, like, a little miniature sledgehammer, and he’s just, like, bashing faces in and blood is flying everywhere and they’re just taking down zombie after zombie. It’s a lot of fun.

Todd:  It is. It’s super gory. It’s really gross, but it’s totally fun. It reminded me, actually, a lot of Peter Jackson’s dead alive for the point in which the guy’s just got the the lawnmower, and he just is mowing through hordes and hordes of zombies that really had that same flavor and and that same amount of satisfaction.

Craig:  Well, yeah. And then and Vergard shows up and helps them out and, like, he’s killing people with well, first of all, he got a machine gun from the Nazi fort, I guess. Yeah. That was

Todd:  a little unclear where that came from.

Craig:  But and he mounted it to his snowmobile so, like, he can take people out or zombies out with his machine gun. It’s been probably 15 years since I’ve seen dead alive, but you mentioned the the motorcycle Vergard takes out 2 or 3 zombies with his snowmobile, like

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Getting them underneath the motor or getting them sucked into the rotor or something. And, it’s

Todd:  it’s cool.

Craig:  It’s satisfying. And but at some point, Vergard and Roy and Martin are kinda having like a little heart to heart, like, where have you been? What have you been up to? Where’s everybody else? Oh, everybody else is dead. Sorry. And then, some zombies apparently sneak up behind, Virgard, and I kinda I expected him to be the hero because he’s been very heroic up until this point. Yeah. But the zombies just grab him and rip him apart limb from limb. And so then we’ve got Roy and Martin, and they continue fighting. And, I didn’t see this coming. We we saw a scene before that we skipped over where we saw that Hannah had survived that fall, and she took out the zombie that she fell with. And at one point, Martin is like hacking away at zombies, and, you see somebody grab his shoulder and he turns around and just hacks, and it’s Hannah. He he accidentally, kills Hannah. But this was entirely her fault. Don’t sneak don’t sneak up on people when they’re fighting zombies.

Todd:  Yeah. I felt like that that scene was really wedged in there. I felt like they just needed to get rid of Hannah, and they wanted to give Martin a moment.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  That’s all it was because it didn’t make any sense. Nobody would do that. And where did Hannah even come from? And why wouldn’t they have seen her coming? And why would she even so close to him when all the zombies were surrounding him and attacking him?

Craig:  And why would you sneak up on somebody who’s hacking away? Don’t do that. That’s stupid.

Todd:  Don’t do that.

Craig:  You got well, excuse me.

Todd:  Excuse me. Are are you finished yet? I’m back. I just want

Craig:  you to know. But, no, it does give him, like, a moment where he’s so horrified by what he’s done. And at this point, Herzog, the general, and his, like, 6 minions have shown up. And, so Roy is like, Martin, Martin, like, I’m I’m gonna need your help here, buddy. And so right at the last minute, Martin snaps, you know, back into reality and he and Roy, again take out all these, zombies except for Herzog. And so then they’re standing there just facing off with him, like, it’s just like a stare down. And I think my favorite line in the whole movie was, I think Roy says, let’s just sledge him and get the hell out of here. Like, let’s get this over and done with. And then Herzog leans his head back and yells. If it was something if he was saying something specific, I don’t know what it was because there was no translation on my screen, but an entire new army of zombies just rises up out of the snow. And we’re talking 100

Todd:  of zombies. These these mountains are just filled with zombies, like, planted like poppies.

Craig:  Yeah. Cross

Todd:  it’s like the sound of music. You sing and they will come springing forth

Craig:  in endless waves. I just remember that I almost skipped my very favorite part. At some point in all of this, Martin gets bit and, after all the zombies are dead, he’s like, I got bit. I got bit. You remember what Erland said? You can’t get bit. He’s like, I won’t turn into one of those things. And so he starts up the chainsaw and he’s like and Roy’s like, what are you doing? And he’s like, well, we’re medical students. We learned about amputation And so he saws his arm off, and then he lights a big fire and cauterizes it. Like, I just think it’s so funny. People do this in movies all the time. Like Yeah. It’s just, you know, oh, darn it. Guess I gotta saw off my arm and cauterize it. Carry on. But so anyway, he does it and, like, so then he’s standing there, like, I did it. And then another zombie pops out of the snow right in between his legs and bites his wiener, and so then he kills that zombie and Roy and Martin are just standing there looking at each other, and Martin kinda looks at the, chainsaw, and Roy’s like, no. No. No. Like, you can solve your arm. That’s one thing, but not your wiener. Come on, man.

Todd:  Scout’s guide to the zombie apocalypse would have gone there.

Craig:  Oh, I thought it was hilarious.

Todd:  I thought you were gonna talk about his line just before that when Martin is bit and he’s freaking out. And, Roy says to him, oh, come on. Isn’t your grandfather half Jewish? You don’t think they’d recruit someone half Jewish, do you?

Craig:  Yeah. That was a good one too. That was a good one. Yeah. There is some there is some good lines. Some good lines. But anyway, so then it’s Martin and Roy against the zombie horde, and and really there’s nothing they can do, so they just take off running. And, again, another instance where I kind of was confused as to what was going on, Roy stumbles and tells Martin to keep going, but then Roy gets up and he keeps running and this zombie comes along beside him and it seems like it hits him in the head and so he’s running and he’s holding his head, but then all of a sudden he gets caught up and it turns out that somehow he snagged his intestines on a tree? Yeah. How did that happen?

Todd:  I don’t think they could properly explain it, so they just

Craig:  did it.

Todd:  They just needed more intestine shots. Like, it felt like every character had to have their intestine spilled at some point.

Craig:  So he gets so he’s dead, of course.

Todd:  But not before he’s run, like, you know, I don’t know, 10 or 12 feet, and then

Craig:  With his intestines spooling out. Yeah. Right. But then okay. So Herzog and the other zombies are, like, standing around him as he’s dying and I feel like after he dies, Herzog takes off of him like a stopwatch or something, which, makes Martin realize they just want their loot back. So he runs back to the cabin which has burned to the ground and he’s digging through the ashes as the Nazis are coming, but he finds the box and, like, he turns around and they all Todd. And so they’re just standing there looking at him and one of Herzog’s lieutenants or something comes and takes the box from him and gives it back to Herzog and it looks like that’s gonna be it. Like, the next thing that we see is Martin running through the forest not being pursued, and he makes it back to the car with his one arm and he’s trying to get the seat belt on and he’s he finally gets that on. And then, he’s puts the key in the ignition and turns it, and one little gold coin falls out of the fob on the key chain. And we had we had seen, Hannah or somebody stash that away at some point, so we knew where it came from. It’s not like it was just, you know, out of nowhere. But he looks at it and he picks it up and he sits up and he just goes and we see a Nazi appear in the car window and bash the car window out, and and that’s the end.

Todd:  It’s a cool ending.

Craig:  It was. It was. Yeah. I know that there’s a sequel, but I know that there’s I I don’t know anything about it. And, so I was thinking that if this is gonna be, like, The Descent. Like, one character is gonna get away and then and somehow is gonna have to end up coming back for the sequel. And I suppose that could be true because we don’t actually see Martin get killed on screen. The last thing we see is the zombie punching through, the mirror. You’ve seen the sequel. I don’t know. Are any of the original characters back?

Todd:  I don’t think so. I don’t remember for sure, but I don’t think so. It’s the sequel I just remember, and and it’s been a while since I’ve seen that one too. The sequel I just remember as being a lot of fun, kind of Shaun of the Dead fun. Like, they really take the Now that we know all these Nazi zombies, the colonel Herzog becomes much more of a character, like, from the very beginning, and he has a silent personality to him, and they play with that a little bit, and, like, they’re they end up in a neighborhood, like, in a suburban neighborhood with tanks and things like that. It it really plays with the concept and ups it a whole bunch and really adds to the comedy. And I’m really I really think we ought to watch that as requested and, and have a look at it. Because as I remember it anyway, it’s a very different movie from this one. It takes a pretty unoriginal, in many respects, derivative film that is just a bunch of zombies killing people, and then takes that concept that they’ve set up and makes a really fun original fun movie out of it.

Craig:  Well, based on your description, I’m intrigued. I would watch it. I’m not gonna watch it today. I’m not gonna race out and get it, but I would I would watch it. You know, frankly in preparing to record this, and talk about it, I I wasn’t particularly psyched because I didn’t love this movie, but I also I I didn’t hate it, you know, like it’s not a bad movie. It’s not poorly made. It’s not poorly acted. I just thought that, you know, the story wasn’t particularly original. The jokes were, you know, funny, but not like laugh out loud, you know, crazy original funny. It was adequate. As far as zombie movies go, I’ve seen much worse, I’ve certainly seen better, but it wasn’t a waste of time. And would I recommend it to other people? I I mean, I guess, if you don’t have anything better to watch.

Todd:  Yeah. I understand, and I and I I think I feel that way Todd. But, you know, I think it also falls in that same trap that I felt that Scout’s Guide fell into. You know, since 2009 when this movie came out, we’ve seen much more clever horror comedies.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  At the point at which this movie did come out, I think if you had seen it in 2009, we probably would would have a different take on it. We probably would have thought it was a little funnier. We probably would have thought, oh, you know, they they kinda did some funny things with this, all these fun nods to the different films and the different genres. As a whole package, we probably would have enjoyed it more. Now because we’ve just seen this whole a lot of this done in a much better Todd, I think that you know, you kinda have to filter it through that lens as well. But I agree with you. You know, somebody’s gonna sit down and it today. It’s it’s not the top of my list for sure. I don’t think it’s hilarious. It has its moments. Yep. For for real gorehounds, this is this is gonna satisfy you, you know, about 20 minutes from the end. Yeah. Because it’s really like that. But but, again, I have other movies I would recommend if you’re a real gorehound and you wanna see more of that way over this for sure. But it takes place in the snow. Maybe it’ll put you in the holiday spirit if you’re living in a place where you’re not getting a lot of snow or blood. Yeah. This will do it. You got you’ve got white snow and you’ve got red. All you need to do is add your own green, and you’ll you’ll have Christmas. Alright. Thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Facebook, on our web page, or you can leave us a comment. Let us know what you thought about this podcast and this film. The podcast themselves can be downloaded from Google Play, Stitcher, Itunes, anywhere you find your podcasts. We have a couple more holiday themed horror movies coming up this month, so please stay tuned. And, of course, let us know what other films you’d like us to watch as the new year comes along. Until that time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

We feel like this movie perfectly captures the spirit of toys and gift-giving, even though it technically isn’t a Christmas movie. Child’s Play is a classic, and one of the longest running movie series of all time. We revisit this classic from 1988 starring Chris Sarandon.

Episode 107, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Todd:  I’m Craig. And I’m Todd.

Craig:  And we are out of, our request month. We are now into December. And this is a fun month for Todd and me because we like talking about holiday movies and, those types of things. And, we are finally getting around to a franchise that, I really like I don’t know that Todd is as big of a fan as I am, but, we decided to go with, child’s play for this week. And it’s not technically a Christmas movie, but it’s set in the winter, and there’s gift giving. It’s close enough. It’s close enough. Right? It has the Christmas spirit.

Todd:  Right? Right.

Craig:  Child’s Play came out in 1988. It was directed by Tom Holland who hasn’t really directed a lot. He’s kind of a jack of all trades. He’s an actor, a writer, a director, but he has directed Some notable things like Fright Night,

Todd:  which We love that movie.

Craig:  Yeah. We love that movie. He did dinner, which was okay.

Todd:  You know, he wrote one of my all time favorite movies that we’re never gonna do on this podcast because it’s not horror, but Cloak and Dagger. Do you know that one? Nope. Oh, man. That you gotta you gotta run out and watch that movie. We’ll pause the podcast. You’ll watch the movie. We’ll come back. It’s that good.

Craig:  Okay. I’ll take your word for it.

Todd:  Anyway, yeah, Tom Holland’s a great guy.

Craig:  Yeah. And it was written by Don Mancini. And Don Mancini is really he’s done other stuff, but he’s kind of known, for this franchise. He he wrote this first movie, and then, did did he write every movie in the franchise? I can’t remember.

Todd:  I think

Craig:  he had maybe

Todd:  He’s he’s either written or cowritten every other movie in this franchise.

Craig:  Right. And, he has directed some of the later ones. And this is a franchise this is one of the longest lasting horror franchises, period. I mean, they’ve got, Friday 13th beat. They’ve got I I think that maybe, technically, there are more Friday 13th movies. But what I like about this franchise is that they’ve stuck to the continuity. You know, a lot of franchises, they do reboots and remakes, and Then there are sequels to remakes and blah blah blah. And at one point in this franchise, they had considered rebooting it, you know, kinda starting fresh.   And that’s what they thought every well, that’s what everybody thought they were going to do with curse of Chuckie. And then curse of Chuckie ended up actually being a SQL that that stays true to the initial timeline, which I appreciate. And, You know, we can talk more about the sequels and things as we go along, but this is where it started. This is the 1st movie. It it came out in 1988, And I remember watching it when I was a kid. You know? I I don’t know when probably when it came out on HBO because we had HBO, and my dad taped stuff for us, on HBO. And, so I have seen this movie probably 100 of times. And, so I whether it be nostalgia or not, I have a big appreciation for this movie.   And sitting down to watch it Yesterday, I realized that, it’s probably been a good decade since I’ve actually sat down and watched this from start to finish. And, you know, in doing so, I I remember my appreciation for it. It’s a interesting, Fun, different, little slasher movie, and, I I like it.

Todd:  You know, I saw it when I was a kid too, but I couldn’t tell you when. I I mean, I wouldn’t have seen it in the theaters. 1988, my parents wouldn’t have taken me to see this. So you’re right. It was probably on TV. It was probably on HBO or something like that. But even then, when it was in the theaters, this was a Notorious film. I mean, I remember this film being about as notorious amongst us as kids as Friday 13th, As, like, Nightmare on Elm Street 3, The Dream Warriors.   Like, when it came out, it was a huge deal. And it was a huge deal also because As I remember, it was it was pretty controversial. Wasn’t it?

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  Like, parents were up in arms about this movie, and it was on the news and all that, about how it might influence kids and and and be bad, like this idea. It’s funny because the whole idea of a killer doll is absolutely nothing new. Right. And we’ve seen it before in tons of even black and white films. I’m thinking the Twilight Zone episode with Talking Tino with Telly Savalas in it. Yep. There was a movie called, dead of night, I believe, a British movie, one of the earlier anthology movies from, like, the forties that has, like, a ventriloquist a talking ventriloquist doll, and I feel like Like that, the ventriloquist doll coming alive trope has happened, you know, a few times. I think even Tom Holland said that he was inspired by some of those earlier movies as well as what’s, what’s that made for TV movie? Trilogy of terrors with the little zoo doll running around.   So, what I read was that he got the idea that, you know, hey. It’s been a while since we’ve had one of these talking doll killer movies, and we haven’t been able to do it with all the latest updates and animatronics to make it really cool. And that kind of set him on the path as well as, the pop culture landscape at the time, which I mean, this was the era of the Cabbage Patch Dolls. This was the era of My Buddy. My buddy. My buddy. I

Craig:  I love it when you sing Todd. We can also.

Todd:  I’d sing the whole thing. You know? Like, we all know that song. Right? Like, we all remember this from that from that time. And, You know, Cabbage Patch Dolls was a huge phenomenon, and marketing to kids in general was a big thing. And and it It was also very controversial at this time. Like, this was the time like, I was a huge He Man guy, and this was the time that all the He Man cartoons were on TV, and those Dolls and those cartoons were explicitly, you know, 1 and 1 made to market toys to children. That with the GI Joes and the Transformers Was a huge, again, more huge controversy at the time, you know, that people are really taking advantage of and shouldn’t be targeting to children so much and making all these TV shows and and and toy crossovers that really are kind of manipulative, You know? Just to get parents to buy things. And my understanding is that Tom Holland’s father was an advertiser.   He knew all this full well, And that was also in his mind when he was developing this idea for this this movie.

Craig:  Yeah. That was kind of the inspiration, I guess. I mean, I think Originally, the, it was meant to be a satire of that, of all the marketing that was going on towards kids, and it just kind of, evolved into this horror movie. And and, you know, they started out with some different ideas. What we get basically is a possessed doll. And and the way that it’s played out in the movie is that it’s it’s possessed by this criminal who had some, knowledge of voodoo. Okay? But, originally, what it was supposed to be, I what I read, at least, was that, it was supposed to be this doll. And Tom Holland or Don Mancini I I think it was Don Mancini.   Remember, one of them in an interview confirmed that, yes, the design of this doll was based on the Cabbage Patch Kids, which were Crazy popular when we were kids when they first came out. Like, you know, like, many of our listeners might remember when Tickle Me Elmo came out, and, like, it was madhouse, and people were, like, beating other people to get their hands on this toy. I mean, that’s that’s what Cabbage Patch was like when we were kids. But as you said, it was clearly I mean, There’s no denying. You just can’t deny that this Chucky doll looks just like that freaking my buddy doll

Todd:  from It does.

Craig:  When we were kids, except it’s got red hair. I mean, it looks just like it.

Todd:  It does. It had

Craig:  to be inspired by it.

Todd:  It’s the same size and everything.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And don’t even know why, as kids, we found that appealing. You know, like, I remember wanting one of those My Buddy dolls. I didn’t get one, and I applaud my parents for not falling for not falling victims to that stupid ad campaign because it was just this great big giant doll and, like, Who cares? But, the so I guess, originally, the concept was it was supposed to be like this kind of my buddy doll, And, it was supposed to like, it was it was gonna be it was made out of vinyl, but it could be injured, And it could be cut, and it would bleed. And then you would have to go to the store to buy these special my buddy Band Aids to, like, or whatever. And so the original concept

Todd:  It’s a totally adult for boys.

Craig:  I know. I I’m gonna I and I’ll keep saying my buddy. It’s not my buddy. It’s Goodguys. They’re Goodguys dolls. That’s right. But the The idea was that then you would have to buy these Band Aids. But whatever the original concept was that Andy, the kid in the movie, His doll that he got from his mom was gonna get injured.   And instead of getting it a Band Aid or whatever, he he made, like, a Blood Brother They’re packed with it. And the mixing of his blood and the doll’s blood caused this doll to come alive. And The, you know, the original concept of the movie, I just find really fascinating because it ends up being something totally different, which is good. I mean, I I like what it became, But the original concept is interesting too. It was, in the original concept, it was supposed to be much more of a mystery. Like, we were supposed to wonder, is this doll really doing things, or is Andy, the kid, really doing it and passing it off on the doll. And so there was a lot more intrigue and suspense and a lot less of us actually seeing the doll do things. Yeah.   And and I I think that that that concept is is an interesting concept. It didn’t end up being that, but Cool, nonetheless.

Todd:  Well, it’s a really interesting psychological concept, and I feel like there’s shades of that idea in this movie because That idea would have been, like, the doll or I think it was the doll was going to, like, basically kill all the people that Andy, Like, had a had a beef with, right, in the middle of the night. Like like, the babysitter or the teacher who, you know, harassed him and things like that. So it’s kind of a Right. Andy’s damaged psyche lashing out at the world, and and I feel like there’s just a grain of that still in this movie and that Andy, doesn’t have a father figure in his life. He’s, his mother is divorced, and it seems like, to me, anyway, the real appeal to Andy of having this doll. And it almost It almost seems very explicit, in the middle of the movie, or earlier in the movie where Andy has the doll in his bed, and It’s it’s after he’s received the doll, and the mother comes in and is kissing him good night and says, oh, do do you are you scared? Do you wanna come in and and sleep with me tonight? And he says, no. I don’t need to. I have Chucky.   And Mhmm. You know, he he’s she’s like, okay, and she leaves out. And I thought, oh, that’s interesting. It’s like Chucky is, like, Now the missing father figure, and maybe that’s why he wanted this doll so bad, is to sort of project, you know, this onto him. And so There it feels like there are little shades of that in this movie, but it doesn’t obviously, it’s a completely different it’s actually much more straightforward horror plot,

Craig:  the Yeah. Right. Right. And I I I read somewhere that, that the original plot was kind of then I don’t know If it was stolen or borrowed or whatever, but, it was used more for a movie called Pinocchio’s Revenge, Which sadly, I’ve seen. Oh,

Todd:  no. That looks like a really crappy movie. I I I hope it’s a box art for that. Does it have, like, a really crappy CGI and stuff?

Craig:  Yeah. It’s terrible. Oh, man. Oh god. I I haven’t seen it. It’s probably been 20 years since I’ve seen it, but, oh, it was bad. But, Anyway, if you wanna get that more psychological twist on it, watch that.

Todd:  Reveals revenge. But don’t but don’t request that we see it.

Craig:  Yeah. Please. Please. Please. You you sadomasochistic fans out there requesting things. Okay. So, anyway alright. So let’s get to this movie.   This movie okay. It starts out with a cop chasing a criminal down an alleyway, And this cop ends up being his name is Mike, and he’s played by Chris Sarandon, totally famous guy. He was, the principal villain in Fright night. He was the bad guy in Princess Bride. Totally recognizable. Great actor. And he’s chasing this, Criminal, whose name ends up being Charles Lee Ray, who is played by Brad Dourif. And Brad Dourif, I think, will Forever be known as the voice of Chucky.   Like, that is his legacy, and and rightfully so because he does it with Such glee, and, like, he’s just so freaking good at it, that, and that’s what when they talked about doing a remake or a reboot, Don Mancini was on board and said, you know, we can reboot this, but we have to keep Brad Dureth. There there’s nobody else that can can beat Chuckie, and I totally agree with that. But Brad Duroff, in his own right, is a really good actor. You’ve seen him in a bazillion things. He played a really super sympathetic character in Cuckoo’s Nest, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. He was a cop in the Halloween remake, but he’s been in a 1000000 things. He’s a great actor, but it just seems like he takes such delight in voicing this character. And I really I I think that he is probably 90% of why this franchise has lasted.   He’s just Endearing in this in this role even though he’s the villain. Like, he’s a super endearing villain. Wouldn’t you agree?

Todd:  Oh, yeah. He he’s a fantastic villain in this. And if the even when he gets into Chucky, the voice acting is is crazy. It’s just intense. Okay. It’s just intense. And and yeah. And and you really need a good villain at the beginning of this because he just comes across as an absolute evil guy, from the very beginning, just this first 5 minutes of the movie, you’re you’re totally convinced, that this guy is capable of of doing what he does.

Craig:  Okay. So the cop is chasing him. It’s funny. I read that there was an alternate ending. Apparently, there were all kinds of deleted scenes, alternate endings, alternate beginnings, and deleted scenes throughout, but, sup supposedly, these have been lost. Like Don Mancini says, you know, they they Just got rid of, all of the excess stuff when they did the editing. But initially, in the beginning, I I guess that Mike, the cop, Chris Sarandon, was dressed in drag, like posing as a prostitute to try to lure to try to lure this, Strangler. I don’t remember what they call them.   They call them, like, the east side stranglers. I don’t remember what they call them. Yeah. And but we Sadly, we don’t get, Chris Sarandon in drag. But if you watch carefully, in the very beginning, What we see is is the beginning of a chase. And if you watch carefully, you can see that, the cop throws a garment to the side. That was his drag dress, But that’s all we get of it. But he chases this guy, and it’s Charles Lee Ray.   Apparently, he’s got The criminal, has, like, a a cohort waiting for him, this guy named Eddie, Eddie Caputo. But when his cohort sees the cops, he takes off. Charles Lee Ray has no real choice but to break into this Toy store, where the cop follows him in. And it’s I don’t know. Nobody’s gonna care about this because Probably most of the people that listen to our podcast aren’t as old as us, but it was so nostalgic of me to see for me to see this eighties toy store

Todd:  Oh my god.

Craig:  Filled with Filled with all these toys that were real. Like, I remember these toys.

Todd:  They could have had all kinds of fake toys on the shelves, But they chose to put real toys on there. And the whole time in this scene, I spent most of the time looking at the background, looking at the foreground, Checking out all these toys. I even rewounded a little bit so I could watch it again.

Craig:  I did too. I mean, there was, like, dizzy dizzy dinosaur and, like, just so many.

Todd:  Like to 1 car. There was that, like Yeah. Game we all that the cool kids had. It was awesome.

Craig:  Just just so beautifully eighties.

Todd:  What was also so beautifully eighties was this whole, chase scene. Like, it’s it’s So Miami Vice. They’re outside Yes. Smoky wet streets in the dark, and they’re, like, jumping over cars and shooting at each other. And the accuracy of their guns is like They’re hold they have handguns, but the accuracy of their handguns from far away is just amazing.

Craig:  Yes. Oh, gosh. It’s great. It’s great. I mean, it’s it’s a it’s a picture of a different time, young lads and lassies out there. But, so Mike, the cop, gets a couple of shots in. Like, he, he shoots the bad guy a couple of times. And, Charles Lee Ray eventually realizes that he’s gonna die, and he’s like, oh, crap.   I’m dying. Like, he really says that. May maybe not the crap part.

Clip:  You heard that, you son

Todd:  of a bitch. It’s I mean, it gets you for it. I’m gonna get you, But I’m gonna get any no matter what.

Craig:  But he collapses in this pile of Good Guy dolls, and he looks the Good Guy dolls and has, like, this moment, and then he starts doing this voodoo thing that that carries throughout the, rest of the series.

Todd:  It’s so corny. It

Craig:  it is corny, but No. It’s not. Shut up. It’s the The sky is all dark.

Todd:  It’s like Ghostbusters when, the the, you know, the scene at the end, like, so these dark clouds billow in and lightning starts Dragging the building. It’s pretty dramatic voodoo.

Craig:  Oh, totally. And he’s chanting, and he’s got this, which I know because I say that a lot In my real life because you possess dolls. Yeah. But, and so so he does this chants, and then lightning strikes the whole store, and the whole store explodes. And the the cop gets blown out of the store, but then he comes back in and he sees that Charles Lee Ray is dead. And that’s the setup. And then we get to meet our main character who is Andy. Andy is played by this little kid called Alex Alex Vincent.   Now little kids in horror normally are super annoying. Regardless of how cute they’re supposed to be, they are usually super annoying. It’s usually super bad acting or, like, Totally trite and contrived and stupid. I love this kid.

Todd:  This kid is so sweet.

Craig:  He is so Sweet. He is just, like, the he’s got these huge doe eyes, and he should be annoying because he’s a kid. All kids are annoying. But He’s, like, he’s so endearing.

Todd:  They kinda play a trick on you, actually, I think, in the beginning, maybe to make him even more endearing. I think it works. Like, you know, when we’re first introduced to him, he’s watching TV, and he’s watching this this cartoon. It’s the good guys cartoon.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  And he’s like, I already saw this. He in the meantime, he runs into the kitchen, and he dumps, like, a whole bowl of Good Guy cereal out. And then he gets, like, a thing of sugar and just starts Spooning sugar into it with milk, and then he burns some toast and throws that on the plate and dumps this huge scoop of butter, like, an ice cream scoop of butter onto the toast. And I’m watching this, and I’m thinking, oh, it’s one of those, like, Asshole kids. You know what I mean? Not much sugar. You know, whatever. But then he, like, puts it on a tray with some orange juice and walks into his mom’s room and wakes her up

Craig:  He’s a sweet kid, and it works. I I I think they just lucked out. I think they lucked out with this cute little kid. Had it been, It it could have been any other kid actor, and it could’ve just been so lame. But but You’re endeared to him from the beginning, and and you have to be, in order to enjoy the rest of the movie.

Todd:  Speaking of that scene, I’m sorry. I just have to point out these Details. Like, I loved how and, again, this is vestiges of that whole advertising thing, you know, apparent how they’re, like, Good guy branded things throughout, and there’s that Good guy cereal. But if you look really closely when he dumps the Good guy cereal out, like, it’s filled with, like, marshmallows, Yeah. They’re actually, like, these huge doll shaped marshmallows in the cereal. Ten times the size of any cereal marshmallow ever been. They crafted some doll shaped marginals to go in the cereal.

Craig:  But that was the eighties too. Nobody cared about No. When we were kids.

Clip:  I want that cereal back.

Todd:  I go on the shelves now, and I see all this it’s like, oh, all natural colors. And I’m like, Man, Captain Crunch just isn’t as bright as it used to be.

Craig:  Very true. Very true. And and and it is funny. Like, he’s watching the the good guy cartoon, which is so it could have been real. You know? Like, it was so reminiscent of the cartoons that we watched. And then it cuts immediately from the good guy cartoon to a good guy commercial where there’s this Man in this big, creepy, good guy

Todd:  suits. It’s awful.

Craig:  How did anybody ever think that that would be cool? I don’t know. I it like, it’s funny because when I was a kid, I wasn’t Scared of that stuff. And now as adults, I look at it, and I’m like, oh my god. That is so freaking creepy.

Todd:  There’s a lot of this whole good guy franchise that’s actually really creepy. Right. The guy is one of them for sure. But, you know, it’s it’s a pretty accurate depiction. I mean, it’s almost like Barney. You know?

Craig:  Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It’s exactly the way things were in the eighties and even in the early nineties too. It turns out it’s Andy’s birthday, And there are gifts wrapped for him. And, I guess, apparently, this Good Guy franchise has been going on for a while, but they’re just now releasing the dolls. And the dolls can can talk, and they can say 3 sentences. And Andy’s watching the commercial, and he looks over at his presence. And one of the presents is this great big box that it like, he smiles at it.   Like, it’s just so cute like, I’m getting a good guy doll. But he goes and wakes up his mom, and, she’s nice. Her name is Karen. She’s played by Katherine Hicks, who’s also been in tons of stuff. Probably most notably, she was the mom in 7th heaven for, like, 500 years. But she’s been in lots of stuff, and she’s she’s endearing as well. Her her acting gets a little melodramatic about halfway through the movie,

Clip:  but But

Craig:  but she’s nice.

Todd:  Yeah. She’s nice. She’s she’s a mom.

Craig:  She’s concerned about her son. Right? Yeah. So he opens his presents, and it turns out that the big box is actually just a box of clothes, and he’s visibly upset. And She and she gives him a Goodguys toolbox, and he’s like, well, that’s nice, but I wish I had a good guy to go with it. And she says, I I know, but I didn’t know about it in time, to save up for it this month, but I’ll I’ll get you one at some point. And then we cut to her at work. Apparently, she’s a single mother. You said she was divorced.   I don’t think she’s divorced. I think she’s a widow.

Todd:  Yeah. I think you’re right.

Craig:  The reason that I say that is because I hadn’t noticed this before I read stuff about the movie. But if you, In their apartment, there are these several 8 by 10 headshots of some gentleman Who I assume is supposed to be Andy’s dead dad.

Todd:  You have a way with words, Craig.

Clip:  You really do.

Craig:  But, you know, you feel for her. She’s trying. It it’s also funny because, you know, like, she’s supposed to be down on her luck. She can’t afford this doll. Meanwhile, they live in one of the most beautiful Chicago apartments I’ve ever seen. Like, I lived in Chicago briefly, and I lived in a pretty nice apartment. It was pretty nice. And, of course, that was early 2000, but that apartment was, like, $1200 a month.   This apartment that they live in Has to be, like,

Todd:  12,000 bucks a month.

Craig:  It it’s you know,

Todd:  I thought initially it was the Bradbury building, Which has been in a 1000000000 movies and looks a ton like this. But actually, it and and there were bees all over the place, in the wrought iron work and whatnot. Uh-huh. But actually, it’s a Different old classic Chicago building.

Craig:  So they live in this fantastic building, but apparently, they’re also down on their luck. And the mom works at a jewelry counter in a department store. And she’s working there, and her friend Maggie, comes in and says

Clip:  You know that doll that you wanted for Andy? Will it cost $100? Yeah. The good guy doll. There’s a peddler in the alley behind the store, And I think he’s got 1. What? What would a pet would be doing with the dog? Who cares? Would you grab your purse and come on? We can get a deal on it.

Craig:  I just think it’s kinda funny, like, Maggie, the friend, like, She just kinda shops in the alley before she comes to work just

Clip:  to see

Craig:  just to see maybe, You know, they’re already good deals or whatever.

Todd:  I think it’s I think it’s cute how they use the word peddler Throughout this film, I’m thinking peddler. Like, I think of that like like Charles Dickens maybe. There’s Right. Down the street. Right. Or, like, He looked like a peddler just opening his pack. That is where this the movie crosses over at Christmas, by the way, is the constant use this word peddler that I don’t think anybody has used since the, 19th century except in this film. They keep saying it over and over again.   I would have said, there’s a bum in the back. Right. Right.

Craig:  I might say hobo, but that’s that

Todd:  You’re just as bad as peddler.

Craig:  Oh, god. But Maggie and and Maggie is played by Dina Manoff, who people will also recognize. I always recognized her, but I was always always kinda like, where is she From. Eventually, I think that I remembered her. She was like the dorky sister from empty nest, but I always forget that she was in Greece too. She was, she was Marty from Grease.

Clip:  Oh.

Craig:  And and You’re right. Cute. She’s cute and funny in this movie. I like her. She’s like the sassy best friend. She

Todd:  is. She kinda reminded me a little bit of, like, Carrie Fisher’s

Craig:  later roles. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Quirky, fun, tough. So they go out there, and and this Creepy hobo has, one of the Good Guy dolls, and so she buys it for $30.

Todd:  It’s a $100 doll. Now this part’s totally accurate, by the way.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. Definitely. Totally not worth $100. Totally, you know, just priced based on the hype. But, anyway, so she gets it. But then when she gets back, her Grumpy eighties boss is mad at her and tells her that she has to work late. She can go home for a couple hours, but she has to come back. And, Maggie says, it’s okay.   Well, I’ll babysit for you. So, the mom goes home, and and she gives Andy the doll. And, of course, he’s absolutely thrilled. But then she has to go back to work, and, Maggie is babysitting. And then that’s where things Start to get interesting.

Todd:  To be honest, this doll is creepy from the get go. Let’s be honest about that. This doll can actually, open its eyes and say these phrases, but it also moves its mouth and moves its eyes when it does it, which is I think it’s it’s kinda cool because they’re very Skillful at when they choose to do this with the doll and when they don’t. I really think there’s some good choices being made here in the judicious use of the special effects by by, Tom Holland’s crew or Kevin Joerger who did the doll. This guy did, the Crypt Keeper from the Tales From Crypt TV series. And, apparently, he used the eyes from this original Chucky doll for the crypt keeper.

Craig:  That’s right. That. I did.

Todd:  It’s so crazy. We’re so good. We’re so good at reading things online.

Craig:  I know. And then he ended up marrying Katherine Hicks

Clip:  who plays

Craig:  Tom in this movie. From this movie.

Todd:  Right? So, anyway, yeah, they’re at home. He’s all excited about the doll, and he’s talking with the doll, and he’s whispering things with the doll. And, you know, just like a kid plays with the doll. It’s like the doll’s talking to him, but we know, oh my gosh. Maybe the doll’s talking with him. So there are times when the adult actually opens its mouth and talks, but when it opens its mouth and talks, it says these stock phrases. It seems like it can activate whenever, like it’s voice activated or something. It just kinda comes on when it wants to, which is also pretty creepy.   But then you get the sense that it’s whispering things to him under its breath without moving anything. Mhmm. That we know that because we’ve seen, you know, the ads for this movie before we go watch

Clip:  it.

Todd:  The doll says to Andy that he wants to watch the 9 o’clock news. And, of course, Maggie thinks this is just a ruse to get, for Andy to stay up later. She says, no. You’re not. You’re gonna go to bed. What has been on the news before she flipped the the channel off, was the report that Eddie, Charles Lee Ray’s cohort, who skipped town, had actually run off and had gone somewhere. Puts him to bed. And at first, I thought she was putting this kid to bed fully closed, Oh, with shoes and everything.   But it turns out that this kid’s this kid’s been in his pajamas, like, all day long, which looked like the Good Guy doll. And they even have, like, Pajama sneakers

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Which is strange, but okay. I’ll run with it. She goes back in, and she’s, Like, doing some fixing something in the kitchen, and she hears the TV turn back on. And when she turns back around and looks in the living room, there is the doll sitting and watching the television, which she, of course, assumes is something funny that the kid did, Andy did. So she grabs the doll, turns off the TV, goes into the room, scolds him. Andy denies it. Blah blah blah blah blah. And then we just get a scene, that we’re expecting where she’s sitting, reading a novel.   It’s all quiet in the house. There’s this movement, and we get these POV shots, which, you know, everything is the doll sneaking around, blocks the front door. And she goes into the kitchen. She thinks it’s Andy. There’s flour spilled on the floor of the kitchen. She picks up a pot of plant, goes and there’s nothing behind it. And suddenly, she as she turns around, a big hammer. Now this is a hammer from I think it’s the the hammer from the good guy toolset.

Craig:  It is.

Todd:  Yeah. So apparently, this GoodGuide toolset has a real hammer. Get in there. Okay. It’s a different time. Toys were a little less safe back then, but, anyway, it goes into her face, and she flails back It slips on the flower in this kind of Rube Goldbergian manner, ends up Catapulting out the window of this you know, I don’t know. It’s, like, 8 stories up in this building, falling out the window down to her death, on top onto a car. And so that’s the 1st kill of the movie, and, Andy’s asleep through the whole thing.   The next thing we have Is the mother coming home to police around her apartment running upstairs? It turns out it’s her apartment, And there’s a detective. There’s happens to be Chris Sarandon.

Craig:  The same detective. The only detective in Chicago.

Todd:  In Chicago. Yeah. He does it all. He chases and shoots the criminals, and then he investigates, you know, deaths, Apparently, it’s kinda funny that this woman would get home before she realizes that there are cops all through in and throughout her apartment with her kid, but, yeah,

Craig:  That’s what happened. And I I don’t wanna dwell on it too much because we still got a lot of plot to cover. But that first kill is my favorite one because It’s it’s it’s very Hitchcockian. Like Yeah. You get the POV shots and you, you you know, you don’t See the killer. You just kind of see her take the hammer to the face from kind of a POV kind of perspective, and, then she goes flying out the window. It’s it’s it’s kinda old school murder thriller, and and I really like that.

Todd:  It is. And we and the thing is we don’t see Hardly anything of the doll.

Craig:  Right. Nothing at this point.

Todd:  Clearly the doll because we see little flashes of it, but that’s about it. I mean, barely a hand or anything. It’s Just a hammer.

Craig:  And then okay. So then the the cops come and they’re investigating, and there’s the good guy footprints in the flour that was spilled, in the kitchen. And so The the cop is suspicious of Andy. And, you know, this, I think, is kind of the remnants of what was initially intended, where you’re not supposed to know if it’s really the doll or if it’s really Andy. I mean, we know it’s the doll. It it was like you said before, in the advertising, it was clear. You know? It’s it’s not like they were trying to hide anything from us. So then so after the mom gets rid of the cops, and, she hears Andy talking in his room.   So she goes in there to talk to him, and, she’s like, who are you talking to? And she’s like, Chuckie. And she’s and the mom’s like, oh? He’s like, yeah.

Clip:  Chuckie’s been talking to you too, hasn’t he? What’s he been saying?   All kinds of things. His real name is Charles Lee Ray, and he’s been sent down From heaven by daddy to play with me.   Yeah. Cassy. Anything else?   Yes. He said that Maggie was a real bitch and got what she deserved.   That’s why I’m saying that line.

Craig:  Oh my god. It’s just so funny to hear that little cute kid deliver it.

Todd:  So funny. Kid. Oh, it it it’s Oh. Fun.

Craig:  And she’s like, don’t say that. She’s like, I know you’re just upset because of what happened, but don’t say that. And he’s like, oh, okay. Okay. So then we cut to the next day where the mom takes Andy and Chucky to school, which I also think is hilarious because who would let their kid take a doll that’s the same size as the kid To school. But

Clip:  Greg.

Craig:  But but the filmmakers answer that question by showing us that other kids are also carrying in their Good Guy dolls.

Todd:  That’s right. There’s a in the background with a giant teddy bear just to let us know that the world is filled with just Good Guy dolls, but kids are still allowed to take huge, dolls to school.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s frowned upon, young parents.

Todd:  Please do

Craig:  not send your kids to School with their huge toys. Anyway okay. So she takes them there, but as soon as she leaves, Andy sneaks out. And, of course, the implication is that Chuckie is telling him to do all these things. And then it’s like baby’s day out where, like, Andy, like, He gets on the l and, like, he takes the l all through Chicago and, like Somehow. No nobody questions him. He doesn’t have to buy a ticket. Nothing.   He, like so he takes the l to the ghetto.

Todd:  He takes the l to bum town. You’re right. It’s the it’s the typical movie bum town.

Craig:  Listen. Again, I’ve lived in Chicago, and there are Places that you don’t wanna get off on the l. But I I I don’t I don’t recall seeing people standing around, You know, trash can fires. I I I guess that was the eighties. I don’t know. Anyway, So what ends up happening is that Chuckie leads Andy to Eddie Caputo, his his partner, his cohorts place.

Todd:  His his rat infested

Craig:  House. Right. There’s so many rats. Which also is like a 3 story apartment that you just Just Squats in. Right?

Todd:  There’s so many rats in this place that, like, dishes and pots are moving on the on the counters and in the sink.

Craig:  Right. And so Andy needs to pee, so he

Clip:  goes and pees.

Craig:  And to tinkle. Think Yeah. He needs to tinkle. And, my fave one of my favorite parts of this movie, and it’s so silly, is, like, When Andy is peeing, he, like, shouts back over his shoulder, and all of a sudden, he’s like a 30 year old man. He’s like, you okay, Chucky? Like like pulling his weeder out and peeing in the snow has has made him Super more masculine and mature.

Todd:  Hey. This man has crossed a a threshold into adulthood already. He’s he’s ridden the l. He’s in bum town. He’s out on his own for the 1st time. He’s taking his 1st piss in the snow. Of course, he’s gonna sound like a grizzly.

Craig:  And this is the part, like, you actually see Chucky’s hands opening doors and stuff. Like, there’s no question at this point that it’s the doll. And Chucky He turns on the gas on the stove and blows out the pilot light, and Eddie comes down because he hears noise. And Eddie he ends up.

Todd:  Eddie’s an idiot, man. Eddie just basically runs from room to room shooting at nothing.

Craig:  Right. He has zero dialogue. Like, this man never speaks in the whole movie. He just runs around and shoots his gun.

Todd:  It’s like a 45 Magnum or something.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s huge. And so the house blows up. I guess because of the explosion, the cops were alerted, and they get Andy and bring him back to the cop station. And then they call in his mom who didn’t even know that he was gone from school. I mean, come on, school. You’re not even gonna tell the mom the kid didn’t show up or whatever?

Todd:  It was the eighties. We did this all the time. You know?

Craig:  Nobody cared.

Todd:  1st viewers day off, you’ve seen this stuff. Nobody cared. Documented in eighties films that we could do this all

Craig:  the time. So the mom comes to the police station, and and she ends up alone with, Andy. And and she’s like, nobody believes you. Chucky is not real. If you don’t tell the truth, they’re gonna take you away, which is what happens. Well, it’s it’s cute because because Andy has this little outburst against Chucky. He’s like, come on. Say something.   Do it. Do it. And then, like, when the doll doesn’t say anything, this little kid and I had to give him so much credit because He really acts like a real little kid. Like, he gets really mad. Like, he starts beating up the doll. Like, you asshole say something. They’re gonna take me away.

Todd:  It is a bit bit of a change of heart for Andy.

Craig:  But Chuckie doesn’t say anything, so they immediately take they send Andy to the loony bin,

Clip:  This is hilarious. This is hilarious.

Craig:  We we don’t see the loony bin until about 20 minutes later, but when we do, it’s like Prison.

Clip:  It was No. It’s worse

Todd:  than prison. It’s like an abandoned prison. Like, the paint is falling off the walls, and it’s God. Big metal bars in the hallways and things. It’s terrible.

Clip:  It oh my gosh.

Craig:  It’s hilarious. Talked about that. Yeah. But that it leads okay. So the mom has to go home without her kid, and she’s mad too, you know, about this whole situation. And so she yells at Chucky likes, say something, you bastard. And, of course, he doesn’t say anything because he’s a doll. But then she goes and and looks at the box, I guess, to look at the specs or whatever for this doll.   Well, I I thought that she turned it upside down, but she didn’t. It’s just like miraculously, the batteries just fall out of the bottom of the box, which makes her realize that the batteries aren’t in the doll. And that this this scene is my Favorite scene of the whole movie, and I feel like it’s it’s it’s kind of iconic. I love this scene.

Todd:  You know, it it actually draws from some of those earlier movies. You know? It’s the same kind of reveal where this doll that’s been talking this whole time, because that’s a feature, You know, it turns out, oh, that, you know, it doesn’t have the batteries in it or whatever. As soon as she sees this, the doll’s head spins around and yells at her.

Clip:  Hi. I’m Chuck. Fuck you wanna play?

Todd:  I don’t know how many times that, as kids in the schoolyard, we quoted this even we didn’t have to see the movie. Somehow we all knew this line was in the movie. It was, like, in the trailers or something. It just brought me back to my childhood. As she screams and drops the doll and it rolls under the sofa, So she gets down, and she lifts the flap on the sofa, and she can see the doll. She pokes it a few times, and it doesn’t do anything. She pokes it a couple more times. Finally, she Pulls the doll out, and then she starts yelling at it, runs to the fireplace, pulls a thing of matches off the top, lights a match on the fireplace and drops it in there.   Turns the gas on, drops it in there. So the fireplace is going. She holds it up.

Clip:  I said talk to me, dammit, else I’m gonna throw you in the fire.

Todd:  You stupid bitch, you filthy slut. Where the hell did you fuck with me?

Craig:  Up until this point, It has been this totally annoying but cute faced doll. And at this point, the face just turned super ugly and mean. Like, it’s clearly a different prop.

Todd:  It’s shocking. I mean, it’s pretty darn scary. Just It is. Abruptness of everything happening at once. I mean, you you see it coming, but you don’t expect it like that. You you just don’t expect it to be that that harsh. And so, yeah, it’s scary. Now then we then we kind of go into you know, we’ve talked about this in puppet master before, the sort of weird doll Physics that are suddenly in play Right.   Right. Doll movies. She’s struggling with this doll that she’s also holding. Right. But, anyway, you gotta overlook that, and it’s trying to attack her. The doll pulls out a knife from somewhere. Now please help me. Where did this knife come from? Because it’s a really iconic knife.   It was it also in the tool set?

Clip:  I don’t know. No.

Todd:  It’s like it’s like red on the side, and it has, like, Stripes up it? I mean, it is not a knife from the kitchen. No. It’s, like, decorative. It’s like a decorative dagger or something. Right.

Clip:  Where did

Todd:  that come from?

Craig:  I don’t know. Oh my gosh. I don’t know. But Thought she does. Got one, and it’s scary.

Todd:  You didn’t read this on the Internet somewhere?

Craig:  No. I didn’t read anything about the knife. It’s so funny because it’s an excellent question and one that never had really even crossed my mind. I mean, that’s That’s just his good guy knife. He probably had it. He probably had it. Whole time. Right.   It was in his good guy belt The whole time, you know, it was like a little fun surprise for kids to find later.

Todd:  Yeah. Like, thanks for the good guy, mace. Right? The Good Guy Sleeping Pills.

Craig:  And and then the movie moves on to the detective part of the movie. And This happens a lot in horror movies, and it it it gets a little old sometimes. It doesn’t bother me in this because it’s really fast paced, and it happens, You know, everything happens pretty quickly. It’s not drawn out too much. Andy’s in the mental hospital, and so now it’s the mom trying to figure everything out. And so I feel like first, she goes to the cop, and and she’s like, The doll is real, and he’s like, no. It’s not. And she’s like, yes.   It is. Look. It bit me. And he’s like, oh, well, whatever. And so then she goes back to find the peddler that sold it to her, and she does

Todd:  Don’t go with that part of town at this time of night. You can’t do it. I’m gonna go do it. She runs off and does it. So, she finds him.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And then he almost rapes her. But then Chris Sarandon comes in because, like, he’s cracking her. Yep. The whole time. They find out from the peddler that the doll the where the peddler got the doll from was the burned out Toy shop, and that startles Mike. Not enough to make him believe that all this weird stuff is actually happening. Right. So he drops her off at the apartment.   She’s yelling at him, and finally, he he drives off, and it Turns out that Chucky has made its way into his car because as he’s driving, the doll comes from the back seat and throws a I think they were, like, jumper cord cables, probably from the trunk or something over his neck and start strangling him. And then we have a I thought it was a really cool scene too where he’s in the car Speeding down the road, Chucky strangling him, and then he gets free of the strangulation, but then Chucky has his knife, and he’s trying to stab him through the seat in various places. And Chuckie’s Chuckie’s aim is really terrible. I mean, you’ve only gotta you’ve only gotta get this guy who’s smack dab in the middle of the driver’s seat, and he seems to stab Everywhere but that. And, also, Chris Sarandon really needs to just, like, stop driving the car. And, like Right.

Craig:  Like, hit the brakes, dude.

Todd:  He ends up getting under the seat and put pushing the gas pedal to force him to go further, and and they end up, flipping over. And then he’s Inside the car and you

Craig:  know what? I feel like I

Todd:  haven’t really seen this in many movies either where there’s a guy inside a crashed car upside down kind of trapped in there, And the Chucky is running around the car and try and kinda tormenting him. Mike has the gun, and he’s shooting at Chucky. And finally, Chucky just kinda sorta leaves, doesn’t he?

Craig:  Well, it’s because okay. So first, Mike burns him with the cigarette lighter. Then he shoots at him, and Chucky says, it doesn’t matter because you can’t hurt me anyway. But then Mike does shoot him, and it does hurt him, which makes Chucky run away, which kinda leads into the next That’s right. Apparently okay. So now Mike believes the mom, so he goes back to her. Meanwhile, She’s been investigating. All of this gets a little bit contrived in this part.

Todd:  Yeah. Because, Mike then goes into the office at the police station and decides to pull Ray’s file.

Craig:  And she

Todd:  goes back to Karen. He says, I decided to pull Ray’s file, and I learned a few things. His nickname was Chuckie, And, he hung out with a guy named John, who was

Craig:  a voodoo guy.

Todd:  At this point, I’m thinking, really? I I got the sense from the beginning of the movie that this was, like, a guy that you tracked and chased down. Like, he was your nemesis for a little while. So why did you have to go and pull his file to learn these 2 very extremely basic facts about him. But, anyway

Craig:  Right. And so Chucky goes to the voodoo guy.

Todd:  I didn’t think anybody could hurt me. But last night, I got shot. You know something? It hurt. It hurt like a son of a bitch. It even bled. And why is that, John?

Craig:  You’re turning human. What? The more time you spend in that body, the more human you become. Chuck, he’s like, well, tell me how to fix and the voodoo guy’s like, no. I’m not going to. I’m gonna call the police. So he goes to run to call the police, but Chucky pulls out a voodoo doll of the guy. He, like, breaks the leg. Like, he’s Torturing this guy through the voodoo doll or whatever.   And so the guy reveals to him, you have to Do the ritual with the 1st person that you revealed yourself to, and then your soul will transfer into his body. And Chuckie laughs and was like, The 1st person I told my secret to is a 6 year old kid. I’m gonna be 6 again. Meanwhile, the mom and Mike like, it’s just it’s funny. Like, it didn’t bother me in the movie. Like, it didn’t bother me at all. Talking about it, it sounds super contrived, but the mom and the cop are just always 1 step behind him. Like They Like, they

Todd:  burst in As this guy’s dying, and Chucky’s already left. Yeah.

Craig:  Right. And, so the voodoo guy’s, like, protect the boy protects the boy. So they take off to the hospital, but, of course, Chucky’s already gotten there. Andy in this Prison, a mental institution. I mean, there’s bars on the window. The floors are concrete.

Todd:  Like He’s got nothing in his room. He’s on clearly, like, a prison bed.

Craig:  He’s still wearing his coat. Like, it’s cold. Like, it’s ridiculous. He’s, like, rattling the bars of the door. Like, let me out. Let me out. He sees Chuckie coming, And he, you know, he rattles the door and is like, let me out. Let me out.   And I, actually, I really liked that scene because this The poor little kid

Clip:  But Chuckie is here, but he’s going to gooey.

Todd:  It’s heartbreaking. It’s Yes. Terrifying.

Craig:  I don’t know how they got this kid into this place, and I hope that He was okay afterwards, but, like, he was clearly really upset and crying and scared. He did a really good job. Good job, Alex, whatever your name is, Alex Vincent. Good job. I’m impressed. But then there’s a whole deal where Chuckie chases Andy through the mental hospital, and the doctor ends up kind of restraining Andy and

Todd:  In the operating room or something like that at this

Craig:  medical hospital. Which looks, again, looks like an insane asylum like It looks like the observatory room.

Todd:  Like, lobotomies in there.

Craig:  So Right. But, fortunately, Chuck, The the the doctor is trying to sedate Andy, but Andy’s kinda fighting. Fortunately, Chucky shows up and, Kills the guy. He puts an electroshock thing on his head and shocks him to death, and the doctor’s, like, bleeding from his mouth and his eyes. And, again, another something that made it so scary was that Andy, this little kid is watching this happening, and he’s just saying, stop. Stop. Stop. Like, it’s It’s horrifying.   But to think of this little kid witnessing this.

Todd:  But on the other hand, it felt like they were reaching for another I mean, this isn’t like Friday 13th.

Clip:  This

Todd:  is not the kind of movie that requires Chucky to have lots of creative different ways of killing people instead of just running over with the scalp he has in his hand and just, like, stabbing him a few times.

Craig:  I actually remembered this scene as being from one of the sequels because it’s much more characteristic of the sequels, these kind of creative kills. Premeditated kind of thing. Right. Right. Yeah.

Todd:  This was certainly not premeditated enough for for this to happen. Yeah.

Craig:  Right. Andy runs away, and then 5 seconds later, the mom and the cops show up at the The hospital. And they’re like, where’s Andy? The cop’s partner who just pops in every once in a while. He’s like, oh, it seems like Andy killed the doctor, and then he ran off. And so Mike, the cop, is like, well, where would he have gone? And she said he wouldn’t have gone home. That’s where I always told him to go. And so we see immediately that Andy is home, and he’s trying to, like, barricade the door and stuff. And we know that the mom and the cop are on their way to help, but he’s by himself for now.   And that leads to the final showdown. And The final showdown plays out pretty much exactly as you would expect it to, but at the same time, I Found it very satisfying. Like

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  It’s a lot it’s a lot of chasing. It’s a lot of surprise I got you kind of stuff, But, it just it worked out for me. He chases Andy around, the mom and the he knocks Andy out With the baseball bat, he starts to do the ritual. The clouds and the lightning come back, but the mom and the cop interrupt, and then, he knocks the cop out. But then the best part is when the mom gets Chucky into the fireplace and she’s She’s got her back pinned so that the he’s held in there by the fireplace grate. She can turn the gas on, but she knocks the matches off, and she can’t get them off. And she’s like, Andy, help me. Help me.   Andy’s basically frozen, but then he comes over and he gets the match, and he strikes the match. And immediately, Chucky reverts back to his dull voice and says, Andy, no. Please. We’re friends to the end. Remember?

Clip:  This is the end, friend.

Craig:  Oh god. I can’t tell you how many times sister and I said that

Clip:  to each other growing up.

Craig:  Did you did you lock

Todd:  each other in the fireplace too as you

Craig:  were doing it? We, She was the crazy one.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Craig:  That’s a that’s a story for another day. Chucky’s all burnt up, and he jumps out of the fireplace and is, like, running around the apartment, setting the furniture on fire, which they never addressed No one.

Clip:  Like, this apartment should

Todd:  be, like, in flames. Yeah. The fires

Craig:  just went out on their own. But He burns up and he falls down, and he’s apparently dead, which is one of the first of few false I I have to admit, like,

Todd:  at this point, I was ready for the movie to be over. Like, oh, that was nice. That was a really big finale. And would have been better if they’d left it there. And it had to bring in it had to bring in his his stupid detective friend. He shows up later, And Mike is like, the doll the doll came alive and attacked us. And he’s like, yeah. Right.   He’s like, well, go out in the hallway. He’s there, but don’t touch anything. And so the guy goes out. Sure enough, the doll’s all burned up in pieces in the hallway, and the first thing he does is pick up the head. And he looks at it, and he toss it back and forth. Then he comes in like a jokester, and he’s like, Here’s your doll. Talk to it. Look.   Don’t tell me it can talk to you. Blah blah blah blah blah. And then out of the grate in the wall?

Craig:  Yeah. The vent. Yeah. The vent in

Todd:  the wall? This arm comes out and grabs him and starts to strangle him?

Craig:  Yes. Somehow the yeah. Somehow, Chuck E. Body got into the vents or something. Yeah. It’s dumb.

Todd:  And then he flops around again like, oh, this doll’s attacking me. Well, just Drop it.

Clip:  Right. To throw it off of you.

Todd:  But, of course, Mike is is too incapacitated by his leg to do anything. And, Anyway, then there are the and it turns out that, the mother grabs the gun and shoots Chuckie a few times

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Through the heart.

Craig:  Which is what the Voodoo guy said she had to do. And and apparently, that’s, you know, Chucky’s dead, and they all walk out. And the last shot is of little Andy kind of, You know, looking back through the door to see him. I don’t know. You know, I I really liked this movie when I was a kid. I watched it over and over and over again. And sitting down to watch it again, I still like it. You know, as far as slasher movies go

Todd:  Yeah. It’s solid.

Craig:  Especially slasher movie yeah. Slasher movies from the eighties is pretty good, and it sounds like such a silly premise. And the premise has been used Over and over again, dolls, demonic toys, puppet master, you know, like all these killer doll movies, have been around. And now there’s even kind of, I guess, a resurgence with, like, Annabelle, and whatnot. But, This one just it’s good. I like it. It’s a good movie, and and I think that that is in large part due the to the fact that Chuckie is such A fun character to work with.

Todd:  That’s that’s what that’s what really saves this movie, I think. That and the kid, the kid’s acting.

Craig:  And, you know, it became a franchise. It did it did really well. It made $44,000,000 on a $9,000,000 budget. 44,000,000, As far as blockbusters are concerned, it’s not that great. But on a 9,000,000 budget, that’s pretty darn good. And so, of course, they went forward with sequels. 2, I really liked. I thought it was really good.   3 was Okay, but I still liked it. They kinda took a turn after 3 and went more for the comedy with Bride of Chucky. And Bride of Chucky is a fun movie. It’s not scary

Clip:  No.

Craig:  In any way, shape, or form. I’ve seen Bride of Chucky. It’s funny.

Todd:  That’s the one with Jennifer Tilly in it. Right? Yeah. Uh-huh. I thought it was I thought it was great. I really enjoyed it, actually, but you’re right. It’s not funny at all. It’s almost like They kind of take the turn that Freddy took, right, where Chuckie just becomes more of this almost likable villain who’s equip equipping one liners and is is Right. Doing horror hijinks.

Craig:  Yeah. And I and I love Jennifer Tilly. You know, I think she’s hilarious and she’s great in that movie. Then with, Seed, they went even further with the comedy almost too far for me. I don’t love that movie. It’s got its moments that are really, really funny. But it was I think that generally speaking, the fans weren’t particularly pleased with Seed. And so that’s when they started talking about, well, are we gonna continue on with sequels, or are we gonna reboot it? Because it seems like the fans want us to get back to scary Chuckie.   The the rumor was that they were rebooting it, but then cursed came out and surprise, surprise, if you watch it all the way through to the end, it’s not a a reboot. It is in fact a sequel, and it is in fact keeping with the continuity of the entire series. And I loved it. Oh my God, I loved C. R. S. So much. And then the most recent one was cult.   Cult of Chucky, which continued on with kind of the dark tone of curse, but they threw at you So many twists and turns and curve balls in that movie. I loved it too. And, Mancini apparently has more in store. You know? He’s got ideas for future installments. And based on Curse and Cult, I’m really looking forward to them. I it’s just fun. It’s just a fun franchise. It’s not Serious.   It’s it’s clever. It’s jokey. It’s funny. It’s violent. I I’d I’m a big fan.

Todd:  And they’ve main Correct me if I’m wrong, but they’ve throughout, they’ve really maintained a commitment to the animatronics. Right? And they They haven’t done, like, CGI and stuff for, which is part of the charm of I even think the the original movie, part of what makes it so charming is, the special effects to the animatronics are really quite good. And I feel like with a colored doll movie, you kinda have to do that. You know? You have to have Mhmm. Real life animatronics because it’s gotta have that that look and that feel of The a doll, but, you know, animatronics, no matter how good they are, always a little stilted.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  But that works really well for a doll that’s come to life. It’s going to be stilted. It’s gonna be stretching in unnatural ways, as the human form or whatever inside of it It’s kinda pushing and pulling against the plastic, you know, outer shell of it. It just it just really works, and like we said earlier, those moments in this movie Where the happy doll turns into the suddenly the evil doll. They are really shocking in part and parcel because of those special effects.

Craig:  Yep.

Todd:  And, and I loved it. I loved it here. I thought it was gonna look dated. I thought it was gonna look bad, but it doesn’t. It it really still works today. And even though it’s a It’s kind of a silly movie, premise wise. Sure. It still it still hits you, I think, in all the right places for most of it.   You know? The kid, like we said, is just Heartwarming, and you really care about him, and you really feel like he’s scared, and the doll’s really sinister, and you just feel like He’s gonna come at them no matter what. That you can really overlook some of the silliness in the in the movie just like you will overlook the silliness in so many, you know, slash films. So, you know, I really liked it and enjoyed it. I probably end up watching since you’re such a big fan, I’ll probably end up watching more of them myself as well, And maybe we’ll do more of them on on the on the series. You know?

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you really should. I mean, I I understand The people who are not fans of Pride and, Seed because it it really just goes for dark comedy. You know, that that’s all it is. It’s a joke, and it’s meant to be a joke. And so I get it when people are turned off by that. But I don’t know.   You know, as far as the the continuity of the the series, this came out in 1988. Here we are in 2017, and they’re still Pumping out these movies. It’s special. There’s there’s no other, franchise that has really sustained itself, for that long.

Todd:  And and it’s the same people involved. Right? I mean, right down to many of the same actors, certainly the same writer, you know, is behind it. It’s That’s impressive, too.

Craig:  Another reason that I like it is because that’s rewarding as somebody who’s been a fan. Like in, in the most recent 2, they have brought back some of the original actors. Alex Vincent, the little boy from the 1st movie, and he was in the 2nd movie also, but, He’s back now as an adult and playing a very active role in the franchise and that’s just cool. It feels like a payoff. You know, like, I’ve I’ve been giving this this this franchise my attention for 20 some years. I I appreciate it. Yeah. I appreciate it.

Todd:  Now when Craig and I were digging around, looking for things, associated with this movie, we found an interesting bit of music.

Craig:  I’d almost forgotten.

Todd:  When you watch the movie, the end credit sequence is almost like a semi sinister Enya type music that goes that goes at the end. But, apparently, there was originally supposed to be a very different end credits music, which For whatever reason, this song was not used. I think they probably felt like it made Chuck a little less scary. It’s amazing. Roll it.

Clip:  I’m a good guy who’ll stick with you until the very end. Then much to my surprise, he Swell to my auntie slipped   and fell. And Chuckie laughed   and said, now we’re alone. C h u c k. Why’d you come out and play? This is

Craig:  Alright. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of 2 guys in a chainsaw. We are happy to bring you these reviews. If there’s anything you would like us to watch. We’re gonna be tackling winter slash holiday movies for the month of December. But after that, if there’s anything that you would like us to watch, please, let us know. Please Chime in with any comments or discussion that you have. You can find us on Facebook.   So you can find us in all the places that you can find, your favorite guest. Until next time, we are your friends to the end. I’m Craig.

Todd:  I’m Todd

Craig:  with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

Take a high-school sex comedy, mix it with a modern zombie flick, and you’ll get Scouts Guide to the Zombie Apocalypse, a request from loyal listener and previous guest Jordyn. Sorry we were a little slow getting it out this week.

Episode 106, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello. Welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd

Craig:  and I’m Craig.

Todd:  It’s our last day of requests for this month, November being request month this year, and, this one comes from Jordan, loyal listener Jordan, who’s actually guested on our show. Yep. Yep. Her request was Scouts Guide to the Zombie Apocalypse, a 2015 film directed by none other than Christopher Landon, Michael Landon’s son, who also shares a writing credit in this along with, 2 women, Emmy Mochizuki and Carrie Lee Wilson. Now the the Carrie Lee Wilson and Emmy Mochizuki don’t actually have much to their to their names besides this. They’ve done, some TV shows, and some things like that. Christopher Landon, however, decided to go the screenwriting route, and he’s written quite several horror movies and directed a few too. I think the parent several of the paranormal activity, sequels. I think he was also the writer of Disturbia as well. None of which I’ve ever seen before. This is the first film I think of his I’ve ever seen. And this is the also the first time I’d seen it. Craig, how about you? Have you seen this one before?

Craig:  Yeah. I think I read about this movie when it was being made, and, so when it came out, I rented it and watched it, and I just remembered thinking that it was a lot of fun, you know, really entertaining. And so when Jordan brought it up, I thought it would be a fun one to do. We haven’t done something kinda funny like this for a while, so

Todd:  I thought we’d give it a go. Yeah. And it is. I mean, that’s kinda how I would sum up. It is a fun movie. It’s not without its problems. And on on honestly, like, there are parts of it that I think I was clearly not the target audience for this film. And at times, this seemed like it didn’t know whether it wanted to be a horror movie or a sex comedy, I think. And, I have to say at times it rubbed me the wrong way because of it. But, I think that’s just my personal taste, to be honest. You know?

Craig:  Yeah. See. And I think I think I’m a 14 year old boy at heart, so I think that it it it it worked for me. I mean, it’s the the humor is low brow and and, corny, but it made me laugh.

Todd:  Well, it starts out with a I think it’s a janitor in what seems to be the CDC or something like that. I think we later find out it’s like a biotech industry of some kind, who’s jamming out to Iggy Azalea and he happens into a room with a guy who’s working on something, obviously, a serious scientist. The, serious scientist goes out into the hallway to get a bag of tick Takis from the machine. And while he’s struggling with that, the guy inside pokes around a little too much and comes across a body. This scene, I think, really just sets the tone for the film. That’s Yeah. Yeah. He he comes across his body even after the guy said, don’t touch anything. Of course, he goes in and starts touching things. And there’s this Todd, looks like it’s dead, but it’s still hooked up to a machine and alive. And then he trips, after the body jolts a little bit and falls all over the equipment and that, starts things, going a little haywire. The equipment makes his heart flat line or whatever, and so he freaks out. He jumps on top of this, what we’ve later learned as a zombie, and tries to give it CPR.

Craig:  And I

Todd:  think we all knew where this was going from the beginning. Right. He dumps Tic Tacs into his mouth because his mouth is super gross before, you know, he goes down to do that. And then as he’s doing chest compressions on this thing, his hands go right into it. Like, his his whole chest cavity just caves in and this and the zombie at this point also comes alive and, takes this guy out while the man in the hallway is still working with his arm in the machine now trying to free the taquitos, that are stuck in there. Zombie janitor kid then comes out and gets him Todd. And that that sets the tone for the rest of the movie. These are the kind of jokes we’re gonna get. Like you said, it’s really low brow, but, you know, I I have I’m fine with low brow humor. It doesn’t bother me so much. Sometimes I really dig it. This movie was part and parcel more or less all lowbrow humor. Yeah. And shit is, I think. But with a lot of good zombie stuff in it. You know? I mean, I gotta say that much about it.

Craig:  Well, and it ends up being a movie about teenage boys. And, you know, when like I said, I don’t know that I ever really progressed all that far beyond that. Maybe that has something to do with why I’m perpetually in high school. You know, like, that’s, who I have chosen to spend my life with as high school kids. And so the the humor is just kind of funny. And that opening scene, I think, like you said, just really sets the tone. It’s it’s really goofy. You know, this janitor’s really goofy. He’s really, like, just jamming out to this music. He’s, like, putting his nipple up against the window trying to tease the scientist, and it’s all just really goofy humor. But then, like you said, it gets to the zombie stuff, and and we get, good zombie, you know, gore and and violence. And, and and that then sustains throughout the rest of the movie. This movie in tone is somewhat similar to a lot of other movies. You know? It’s it’s kind of similar to, Cooties, which we talked about where there was a zombie outbreak in an elementary school. It’s, reminiscent of Zombieland, in some places. I don’t know if if it’s quite as clever as, Zombieland, but it it tries, and I think it’s a a pretty decent effort. The next thing that we cut to is this scouting promotional video, which is super hokey, and and it stars scout leader Rogers, who ends up being the scout leader in the movie and is who’s played by David Koechner, who people would recognize. I mean, he’s been in everything, but, he was yeah. He was in The Office. He was in Anchorman. He was the goofy uncle in Krampus. And, it it looks like he’s doing this recruiting thing, but really the only people who are watching are these 3 boys. And I say boys, they’re I I would guess, what, like 17, 16, 17?

Todd:  Mhmm. Yeah.

Craig:  They they drive, so they’re they’re old enough to drive.

Todd:  But they’re And they’re entering their junior year. Right? They’re in their sophomore year entering their junior year.

Craig:  Yep. Right. And it’s, these 3 kids who are gonna be the central characters of the movie, Auggie played by Joey Morgan, Carter played by Logan Miller, and Ben played by Ty Sheridan. And Auggie is kind of the big, kind of nerdy one. I mean, you know, he seems like a nice kid, but he’s not stereotypically good looking, and he’s the one who’s really into scouts. And then Carter is kind of the one who has clearly grown out of this, is is way more into or interested in, you know, kind of teenage rebellion. And then Ben, who kind of falls in the middle. Ben’s kind of, the nice, semi popular kid. And, arguably, I guess, Ben and kinda being the main character. But it’s just these these three guys who we’re led to believe have been best friends since, they were little kids, and they’ve been in scouts together since, they were little kids. And I guess this night kinda marks a big night because Auggie is going to be getting his Condor badge, which I assume is the equivalent of kind of the eagle badge in, the boy scouts. And so, they’re gonna be camping out to celebrate this. But we find out that Ben and Carter, have kind of been plotting behind the scenes, and they’re trying to figure out how they’re going to tell Auggie that they’re gonna be quitting scouts. They kind of feel like, they’ve outgrown it.

Todd:  Yeah. And it’s kind of a pathetic little scout troop. It’s just the 3 of them quite literally. Yeah. I don’t know if it’s if it’s if it’s, like, the rest of the scouts have gone on to other things and it’s just these 3 who stuck it with it all this time or if the impression is that, you know, they’re over enthusiastic scout leader Rogers just hasn’t been able to recruit anybody else, but these 3. I mean, they’re the ones who show up in the recruitment video that presumably he plays all the time. So, you know, either way, it’s just these 3 guys in this scouting troop. So it’s it’s a little sad to begin with, but that also, you know, this this sort of thing is inevitable. Right? Some of them are gonna wanna move on, and that’s gonna be awkward because it’s only 3 of them.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, and I get the sense that that’s fairly typical, you know, and and real life. Oh, for sure. Lots of little lots of little boys are are in scouts, but they kinda, you know, people drop off as time goes on. And it’s really only the most dedicated who really stick with it, and and very few people actually get the Eagle Scout, which I I I wanna just say I I find very admirable. It’s something that’s not easy to do, and it does take a lot of time and dedication. And, you know, good old Augie, you know, he’s he’s clearly put in his time, and he’s gonna do this. But the other the other 2 are are getting more interested in other things like girls. Come on. You’ve had fun.

Clip:  Had fun. Okay. Past tense, Had. And now I am ready to move on. I mean, you realize it’s gonna be junior year next year. I mean, you know what that means. Right?

Craig:  Todd thinking about college?

Clip:  We start thinking about pussy, Ben. Come on. Junior year is when all the girls become slugs. Oh, really? Yes. And if we’re sitting here in these scout uniforms, it’s gonna be the male version of a chastity belt, Ben.

Craig:  So, you know, priorities, come on.

Todd:  It was It’s pretty funny. I’d say it’s about 10 minutes into this movie that I realized this was basically gonna be cooties mixed with American pie, you know. Yeah. And that’s basically how it goes this whole time. It’s Carter and and it plays with a little bit and mixes the zombies in with it a little bit and and really goes out of its way sometimes to make a lot of these sex jokes in the midst of all this trauma and this turmoil still, you know, oh, I get to see some boobies, you know, is kind of

Craig:  a Right.

Todd:  Right. Suddenly stops in his tracks, you know, kinda thing. So that’s that’s the kinda movie it is. Carter and Ben are driving, and they hit a deer. And I just have to say, like, this is the best deer accident you could possibly hope for. It does Right. It does almost no damage to the car even though they hit this deer just flats flat on, in the middle of the road. And, and the only thing that happens is the tire’s flat, so they have to change it. And as they’re changing this flat tire, Up drives another car with the other characters we’re gonna see in the movie. 1 of them is Carter’s sister sister, who we learned Ben has a serious crush on, and she’s super sweet to him. And then there’s a jerk, of course, because there has to be guy, named Jeff who is

Craig:  Yeah. Her Played by Patrick Schwarzenegger.

Todd:  No way. Yeah. I didn’t even realize that. Oh, my gosh. So he’s the on again off again boyfriend of Kendall who is a Carter sister. And then there’s another girl in there named Chloe. And so they’re all chatting and Chloe, Carter’s trying to hit on Chloe. In the meantime, Ben is queuing it up with Kendall. And at some point, Kendall mentions, well, looks like the car, the deer got off better than the car. And he’s like, what do you mean? And she turns and it’s and it’s gone. And the deer’s gone. They think, oh, that’s strange. And, in the meantime, car it turns out that as this other group speeds away, Carter comes back and says, yeah. We got you won’t believe what happened. We got invited to the super secret senior party for the year. So this sets up kind of our main conflict between the main characters aside from the zombies, is the sub conflict between them. This is the same night that they’re supposed to do the campout with Auggie so that he can get his badge. But who they can’t pass up this opportunity to be invited to this super secret seniors party where for sure Carter’s gonna get laid, you know, 15 times over.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  So that becomes sort of the second, central conflict between those three people that causes some drama and some group dynamics there.

Craig:  Well, and the the plan is that and it’s Carter’s plan, you know, Ben kind of feels bad about it, you know, he wants to be a good friend. He’s like, we can’t miss this thing and Carter’s like, well, we’ll we’ll go to the campout and then when scout leader Rogers and Auggie fall asleep, we’ll just sneak out and we’ll come back before morning so they’ll never even know we were gone. They drive up to Carter’s house and we meet his grouchy neighbor, missus Fielder, who’s played by Cloris Leachman. And

Todd:  Yeah. You can’t

Craig:  you can’t go you can’t go wrong with Cloris Leachman. Of course not. Cloris Leachman is hilarious. And, knowing that this is a zombie movie, you know, you’re just just waiting. Like, come on, zombie clashing.

Todd:  Come on. It’s funny. She’s mean, and she’s angry about them, like, leaving the, like, trash can in her yard. You know, just your stereotypical neighbor, but she also happens to be the crazy cat lady

Craig:  too. Right. Right. And you you you meet her for all of, like, 5 seconds. So you know that this is just a setup for her to come back later, which, of course, it is, and it’s it’s pretty hilarious when she does come back. Then we see, scout leader Rogers, trekking through the woods and he gets attacked by the zombie deer, but he uses his trusty lucky pocket knife to fight off the zombie deer, but then he’s immediately also attacked by the scientist from the opening clip, and so we know that he’s a goner.

Todd:  I have to say, like, at this point, this movie is pretty typical, Like, the script is not super unique. I mean, yeah, it’s got it’s got the scouts in it, but it’s pretty derivative. It has all of what you expected a teen movie. You know, the dorky friends who’ve got, you know, their their bond together, but they’re, you know, that’s being tested. You have the hot girl that, the one guy’s lusting after. You have the other, the super horny guy, you have the nerdy guy, you have the jerk, you know, who’s the hot girl is currently entangled with. And honestly, even by the end of this movie, all this plays out exactly as it would play out in any other film as well. So So, it’s predictable in that way. I guess the only twist here is the zombies are there.

Craig:  Well, yeah. But but you’re right. I mean, if this were just a teen sex comedy, like, if you took out all of the zombies, things really would all probably play out the same way. You know? Like, you know the cute guy is gonna get the girl in the end. You know, like, you know you know there’s gonna be lots of boob jokes and stuff. You know? And and that’s how it plays out. But I have to say that’s one of the reasons that I like this movie is because I think that it melds those 2 genres so well. And, frankly, zom the the zombie genre is is not my favorite genre in horror. I watch it all the time, but you’ve seen 1 zombie movie, you’ve kinda seen them all, really. I mean, there’s not a whole lot you can do with it. You know, I know that there have been, you know, like, 28 Days Later, you know, kinda came up with the fast zombies. And so, like, you know, there’s there’s different approaches. I’m not saying they’re all exactly the same, but a zombie movie is a zombie movie. Well And

Todd:  They all have the same stakes. You know. Yeah. Right. It’s always the same conceit. It’s the world is gonna be overrun by them. Right? And so we’re all trying to escape them and stop them from overrunning the world. It’s sort of like how every, superhero movie is exactly the same. Right? The the world’s always in danger of the universe.

Craig:  Right. And and this one, I, you know, I think it does a good job of putting these 2 kinda genres together, the teenage sex comedy. And it’s got the best of both worlds, I guess, is what I’m saying. It it kinda it freshens up the zombie formula for me enough that, it’s it’s entertaining.

Todd:  It’s got a lot of unique elements that I haven’t seen in other zombie movies, and that’s really what you gotta do. Right? I mean, that’s that’s the challenge of anyone who’s doing a zombie movie now is how are you gonna make some unique kills? How are you gonna play around with the zombies? And with the comedy, you have even more leeway to go in directions that, other zombie movies haven’t gone yet, and there’s plenty of that in this movie too. Yeah.

Craig:  And I I like some of the things that they did that you don’t I mean, it’s not like you never see this, like, you know, the zombie deer. Usually in zombie movies, it’s the people who are infected. You know, you’ve seen Evil Dead. You’ve seen, you know, like, the zombie deer head and stuff, so it’s not like these are entirely unique things, but, unique enough that, it it stands out a little bit. The the 2 boys, Carter and Ben, end up going to a convenience store because they wanna have somebody buy them beer and and car Carter gives money to this crazy homeless guy out front who then goes in and Stereo acts crazy.

Todd:  Stereotypical drunk homeless man. I I have to say, I thought this whole scene was rather silly, and I have to knock down the movie a few pegs. I mean, I I’m fine with suspension of disbelief, and in comedies, things are wild and raucous, but there was nothing realistic about this scene whatsoever. I I think think I mean, come on, man. They give this this obviously overacting, almost a fantasy stereotypical homeless crack head who just goes inside, and it’s all super loopy and like pulling random things off the shelf and piling them on, and I’m like, oh, okay, I guess this is supposed to be funny. And then he runs in and starts arguing with this guy, which, in front of the shop owner, you know, blows his cover completely. At this point, this this woman walks by, from across the street where there’s a strip club, and the strip club’s name is Lawrence of a labia.

Craig:  Then I was laughing. I was talking about this. Oh, gosh. Yeah. It is so funny. And I was talking about this last night, and I was trying so hard to come up with the name of the strip, Giant Knight, because I thought it was so funny that I was like, I think it was something like elabian knights. Like, that works too. But, no, Lawrence of Arabia is is pretty darn good. That’s so funny. And, yeah, they they they see this girl, Denise.

Clip:  Costume party?

Craig:  No. I’m a scout.

Clip:  Like an actual scout?

Craig:  Yeah. Well, we gotta camp out tonight. So you you work across the street?

Clip:  Yep. My my son.

Todd:  Yeah. I

Craig:  mean, never been in, but I hear it’s nice. It’s got a good Yelp review.

Clip:  What? Nothing. You’re just you’re really cute.

Craig:  I don’t recognize this girl. Her name is Sarah Dumont, but, she’s she’s gorgeous. I mean, she’s she’s tall and beautiful and, just looks like a badass and he ties her strap with, like, a scout knot knot. And, she’s kind of impressed with him, or or at least grateful for his help. And so, she’s like, you guys are such amateurs. Just give me a second. And she goes inside and she gets the money from the crackhead and she buys them beer and so, like, she’s, you know, obviously, she’s gonna be the cool badass girl who is, gonna help them up later, and she does. I think she’s my favorite character. I mean, it doesn’t hurt that she’s really pretty to look at, but, she just she plays the tough girl who takes no nonsense, who, you know, she’s not a damsel in distress. She can hold her own, and, she’s a cool character.

Todd:  Yeah. She’s like Rose McGowan from Planet Terror or something like that in

Craig:  this Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. The next thing we get basically is a montage at the campsite. They all join up with Auggie, and there’s a musical montage of putting up tents and roasting marsh mallows and having fun and whatnot.

Craig:  Of course, you know, they talk about where is scout leader Rogers, and Auggie’s like, well, he’s never late, so I have a feeling he’s just, like, testing me, like, this is my test to get my, badge or whatever. But this whole scene, even though it’s really short, is actually really sweet and that’s another thing that I think that this movie does well is establishing that these guys really are friends. They they may be growing up and they may be kind of growing apart a little bit because, you know, sometimes when you grow up you the friends that you had when you were little, you have different interests, whatever, but, they clearly they clearly have history, and and they have a close bond and it’s kind of cute. And Carter’s got, you know, this thing where he takes selfies with everything, like he took a selfie with the dead deer when they hit it, and he takes a selfie with Auggie when he hits him in the head with, the marshmallow. And that’s just kind of a running gag throughout. Like, later on, he’s taking selfies with the zombies and stuff. But I like that. And, you know, I I really like buddy movies and especially when movies can, really make me believe that the characters share these kinds of bonds. I’m a real sucker for that, you know. It’s like, I think that it’s very eighties, you know, movies like Stand by Me and The Goonies and Monster Squad, you know, where where these kids, their strength ends up lying in their friendships. And and so I appreciated that that they took the time to kind of establish that because then moving forward, these guys have to kinda look out for one another and, it’s cute. Yeah.

Todd:  And it’s convincing. You’re absolutely right. It is convincing. And Auggie and Ben share a scene, and I thought this was gonna be significant in some way, where, they talk about they mentioned Auggie’s dad, and I guess Auggie’s dad died. And, and they just have, more or less, it’s just a generic tender moment. It’s really there’s nothing gonna be about Auggie not having a father that comes along later. What this is is really to establish and solidify in our minds that bond between Auggie and Ben and how much Ben actually cares for Auggie. Because when it comes time for Carter to wake up Ben to leave, Ben doesn’t really wanna go. He’s really not he he didn’t really wanna go to the senior party in the first place. Again, Carter’s priority is the women and all that stuff, and he’s Ben’s really I mean, he’s he’s I think he just has a sight set for Carter’s sister, quite honestly.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. And so he’s yeah. But but he cares a lot about Auggie and he seems Todd care about his feelings more. And that comes into play later on in the film as well. But they end up leaving and they’re trying to find this party And we get to see a little bit of the party, and I don’t know, man. This must be what a senior party is like in Deerfield, California. Like, in my school, people would all get together at somebody’s house or something

Craig:  like that. But this is like Right.

Todd:  Giant rave with professionally installed lights, professional DJs in what looks to be like an abandoned swimming pool, indoor swimming pool or something Uh-huh. Out in the middle of nowhere. It’s pretty it’s pretty funny.

Craig:  Yeah. And, like, I I went to some pretty good raves, I think, in college, but nothing compared to this. Like, this looks like what I what I would have liked if you were a celebrity and you were going to a rave in Hollywood. Like, that’s what Yeah. Like, wall to wall, gorgeous people, like, dancing and making out, like, flashing lights everywhere. I mean, I I would definitely skip the Boy Scout campout to go to this party.

Todd:  Well, I was thinking, especially later on when, you know, the fact that this is a super secret party, so Todd, but apparently all of the people there, the seniors who were there, like, know about it. I thought, now this doesn’t work because all the vendors that had to come in and set up the lights, and set up the sound system, all that stuff, They got paid. They would know that this was going on.

Craig:  Oh, no. Carter and Ben leave, and they find the scoutmaster’s knife. And, when they they turn on the car and they turn on the headlights, Auggie is standing right there. Like, so they’re obviously caught and they have kind of this, confrontation.

Clip:  Thought we were best friends. We we are best friends. We were coming back. Really? After your party? You you know about that? Everybody knows about the senior party, Carter. Even a loser like me.

Craig:  Oh, you don’t say that.

Clip:  Why not? That’s what you guys think.

Craig:  Oh, wait. We don’t think you’re a loser.

Clip:  Ben, just just tell him. Carter, no. Yeah. Tell me, Ben. Come on. Say it. We’re quitting scouts, Auggie. Okay. It was fun when we were kids. We we have to grow up, man. Auggie, we’re still gonna be best friends. Go to your party.

Craig:  Carter and Ben end up leaving, and they they they start driving through town, and they can’t get any radio signal and and we’ve already seen that their cell phones aren’t working quite right. I thought that, again, that was another thing. I liked this movie period, but another thing that I liked about it was kind of the slow realization of what was going on like, you know, there was the the hint with the deer going away and, then all, you know, like then they can’t get any radio signal. What’s going on? And like they’re driving through town and all of the town looks deserted. So they don’t know what’s going on right away and they stop in front of that same convenience store where they were before and Ben notices that the door, to the convenience store is smashed and he thinks that’s weird, but then Carter realizes that the bouncer from Lawrence of Arabia is, not standing in front of the door anymore. And he’s like, this is our shot. You know, the bouncer’s gone. We gotta get in there. So they go in and In their scout uniforms. Yeah. I mean, in the scout uniforms that they’re in are like the scout uniforms that 5 year olds wear, like like the khaki shorts and, like, oh gosh. It’s and and the, you know, the little neckerchief, like, it’s so cute or whatever. But then they go into the strip club, and I just I thought this was hilarious. I I just loved it.

Todd:  Yeah. The strip club’s entirely empty, but the music’s playing. This the the lights are going, and Ben sits down. I don’t know what he was expecting. I think he was just sits down in front of an empty pole in the middle of an empty room, and, sure enough, a stripper comes out and walks down and does a bit of a pole dance in front of him, but as we can figure out by this point, it’s a zombie stripper.

Craig:  Right. Right. When she comes up, she’s lit from the back, and so you can’t tell that there’s anything wrong with her. And it’s it’s it’s actually very sexy. And, you know, here’s cute little innocent Ben sitting down at the end of the runway. And she comes down and she dances for him for a second, and it looks like she’s gonna kinda like, she’s reaching out like she’s gonna bite him but in a seductive way. And that’s when Carter sits down, and Ben even says something like, dude, something wrong with her. Look at her chest. Look all over her. No. No. That’s makeup, dummy. It’s a jungle theme. And then and then she sprays the blood out, like it’s like when she goes upside down on the pole and, like, leans her head back, like, her neck splits open and sprays blood all over Carter just like he’s just covered in blood and and then the zombie bouncer shows up and, chases them around and it’s pretty scary. But then Denise, badass Denise shows up and and saves the day and rescues them and they get the heck out of there.

Todd:  They come out and, run for the car and they have basically, it looks like half the town starts running towards them all of a sudden. And, as they try to get out of of there, the the spare tire on the car comes falling off because they did a really poor job, I guess, of installing it the first time. And they literally changed the tire again while Denise is trying to hold off the rest of the this zombie horde coming towards them basically with her shotgun. And they they managed to do it, and they speed out of there. In the meantime, Auggie has gone by Roger’s, house. I guess, you know, at this point he’s done camping, and he’s looking for him. Himself. And and the joke here is that this scout master has a thing for Dolly Parton, and his whole house is completely decked out in Dolly Parton memorabilia. I mean, from the curtains to the bed sheets. Even has, like, a Dolly Parton pinball machine in the living room. And, and then he goes in and eat some Todd, and then, oh, stomach starts rumbling, so he’s gotta take a crap. And so, again, you get more of this fart jokes, poop jokes. You know, this again, it’s just not my kind of movie, you know. I

Craig:  and and I thought that you I knew watching this that that is kind of how you would feel about it. I just think it’s funny. I mean, even the whole Dolly Parton thing where the whole house is just like there’s a Dolly Parton bust and they’re like That’s hilarious. Life-sized cutouts of her and and paintings and, like, it’s just ridiculous. Like, it’s it’s really stupid, but I just thought

Todd:  it was hilarious.

Craig:  I like that part. And, yeah, like, you know, Auggie sits down and is taking a crap and, like, he smells his own crap and is like, oh. And so, like, he there’s a window directly behind him and he opens it, and a zombie’s, like, creeping up behind him as he’s, like, wiping his butt and stuff. Like, it’s totally it’s so juvenile. Oh, yeah. But so am I, apparently, because I I just thought it was it was really funny. Todd doesn’t pretend to be anything that it’s not. No. For sure. Like, it it it it takes that that lame juvenile humor and it just runs with it and sometimes movies try to be super super clever and I just kinda roll my eyes like, oh, I get it. You’re super super clever. And and this one’s just like, nope. We’re just gonna go for poop jokes and boob jokes and and I’m I’m I’m

Todd:  down with that. I’m Todd with it. For sure.

Craig:  There are a cup when you said when you said earlier that there were some parts that you were, like that you just, you know, kinda couldn’t tolerate. Immediately, there was one part that came to mind, which we haven’t gotten to.

Todd:  I think I know

Craig:  what you were talking about. But You know what?

Todd:  Oh, yeah.

Craig:  I I just thought it was so funny.

Todd:  We’ll get to that part, and, we’ll talk about that that part as it were.

Craig:  Oh, and then okay. So so what’s his name? The the scout leader shows up, and of course, Auggie quickly realizes that he’s a zombie and they fight, but, like, when they’re fighting, Auggie, like, trips over the CD player and so it comes on and so this whole zombie fight is soundtracked to Dolly Parton’s 95, which I know. That’s so funny.

Todd:  That was funny. I mean, there were I’m not saying everything in here was totally juvenile. You know, some of it was really funny and clever, but then what does he do? Like, the bust of Dolly Parton falls down on him, and he uses the bust as a weapon, and and it turns out so he holds the bust up, and then the zombie goes face first into the bust of the bust. Like Oh, great.

Craig:  Like motorboats. Motorboats, the bust. I oh my god.

Todd:  You know? Oh Todd.

Craig:  That’s that’s that’s not even as bad as when we get back to Chloris Leachman. That was a part I didn’t even really understand, but we’ll we’ll get there. Yeah. Oh, man. So, anyway, so Auggie, you know, uses, like, a can of wd40 and a lighter Todd torch Rogers and then he ties them all up. And then we get back to the other boys who are now teamed up with Denise and I guess they go Todd, like, the community center or the police station.

Todd:  I guess it’s the police station. It’s the sheriff’s office.

Craig:  Yeah. And there’s a sign that says all evacuation buses have have departed. So they’re gonna go back to the car, but the car is surrounded by zombies, so they end up running into the police station and there’s a zombie cop in there and then the whole zombie horde gets in there and so they end up locking themselves in a jail cell and it’s one of those jail cells that I really believe only exists in movies and television shows where, you know, it’s just like a cage in the middle of, like, the sheriff’s office or whatever. Literal cage. Yeah. But I I again, I really liked this. I thought that it was kind of a, you know, a a clever little twist that they’re just in this cage and the zombies are, like, reaching in trying to get them and so they just kind of have Todd huddle in the middle where the zombies can’t get them. And, eventually, they’re, like, bored, and they’re just hanging out and talking. And the zombies are all around, and Carter’s, like, taking selfies with the the zombies. It was just I thought it was I thought it was funny. They have a, like, they have a little heart to heart in there. Like, it’s cute.

Todd:  It’s it saw that coming a mile away too. Again, it’s one of these parts of the movies they gotta get gotta somehow give them a break so they could sit Todd, have their heart to heart, and move the characters along a little bit before they get back into the action. But, yeah, they do that and, have a discussion about Auggie and, basically, Denise is their conscience, you know. Denise is the one who’s

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  Trying to tell them, you know, again, it’s that stereotypical thing. The badass street smart girl who’s seeing it all

Craig:  The hard of gold.

Todd:  Now yeah. And also, like, wiser than anybody else because of it. Right? Tells them that they need to how could they do that to their friend? Then they use Carter’s condoms to get out of jail. Like, just I’m just telling you, man.

Craig:  Carter Okay. I’ll give you yeah. I’ll give you that one. That one was pretty silly. They fly they fly fish with the condoms. That was really Successfully.

Todd:  Quite literally that was reaching. I’m sorry. But that was it was reaching in 2 senses.

Craig:  Yeah. I’ll I’ll give you that one. I’ll give you that one. The movie’s not realistic at all. Like, everybody always shows up exactly when they should. And and so, you know, Auggie shows up at this point, and he distracts the zombies to, get them out. There’s some silly slapstick comedy about, like, you know, they they they successfully fly fish the keys with the condoms, but then Auggie comes in and like kicks the keys into a hole or something, but he gets them out and they go running off and they’re being chased by all these zombies and, they go through this fence or, like, a gate or something and they they close the gate, but they close the gate just after they’ve seen this female cop before, and she’s this female when before she was a zombie, and it’s this female cop with these huge boobs and when when they close the gate, it’s like she got through, but her shirt got caught on the gate, so her shirt just rips open and these huge zombie boobs come flopping out and, like, it goes to slow mo to show these boobs just kinda, like, bouncing in the wind, and, like, Carter’s face is just, like, you know, he’s huge and wide eyed, and it’s just it’s kind of a long shot just on these giant boobs. And then Carter’s just everybody else is running and Carter is just kind of standing there looking at them and then they’re like, come on, Carter. And just real quick before he runs off, he just grabs her boobs and, like, squeezes them for a second, and and then he starts running off with them and he’s like, I felt them. I felt them. I don’t think they were real.

Todd:  Oh, it’s

Craig:  so juvenile. It’s so 13 year old boy, and it oh, I just thought it was so funny. I laughed. Giant zombie boobs.

Todd:  Yeah. Well, I don’t know. Does the car break down or they just stop? I can’t remember what why they encounter that Britney Spears singing zombie in the middle of the road.

Craig:  Yeah. The it’s the same it’s the crack head from the convenience store, but now he’s a zombie and this, you know, it’s hit and miss, you know. I I like silly, stupid humor, but this part, they probably coulda cut out. I I I don’t even really under I don’t really get it. Like Yeah. They they confront this crackhead zombie and Auggie, like, is like, oh, it’s just like in the wild when you face animal, you have to intimidate them. So he starts trying to, like, yell at the zombie and then the zombie starts mimicking him And then he notices that the zombie is wearing a Britney Spears t shirt, so he starts singing hit me baby one more time to it and the zombie starts singing it. And so then, like, it’s like a hit me baby one more time sing along for a minute. Yeah. Oh, okay. And then a hot black soldier shows up.

Todd:  Yeah. That’s right.

Craig:  Out of nowhere and kills that zombie and takes them off, and and he’s only there for a second. And it basically, he’s only there so that we can find out that at 3 AM, they are gonna bomb the whole town. The military is gonna bomb the whole Todd. But the boys, instead of wanting to get away, they want to get to the senior party because they they say, so you’ve evacuated the whole town? And and the soldier’s like, yeah. We’ve evacuated the whole town. And they’re like, even the people at the party, and the soldier’s like, what party?

Todd:  You know, I understand they’d had to do this, and this is just we’re gonna go with it, but I just wanna point out how ridiculous this is. Sure. This whole town got evacuated in a matter of a few hours, and that all of the parents of the hundreds of kids that are at this party just left without them. Nobody knew or cared, enough to, yeah, find out where these kids were.

Craig:  And, well, yeah. And I mean, as as no. You’re absolutely right. It is. And and that’s the other thing too. Like, if you want to enjoy this movie, you’re gonna have to get over the fact that the script is really contrived. Like, so it because they don’t know where the party is, but Carter remembers that his sister, Kendall, writes everything in her journal. So he’s positive that she would have written where it is in her journal. So they’ve got to go back to his house to find her diary, and so they do and that’s where they, of course, then encounter zombie, Cloris Leachman.

Todd:  Oh, man. That was crazy. She’s still peering out of her window at the neighbors like she was before, and Right. But she’s a zombie now. And while they’re looking for the diary, she comes over and breaks into the house. And, as they’re fighting with her, I guess, they knock her dentures out. And so Yeah. At one point, she’s overcome Carter, and she’s super strong. Like, she’s it’s that’s part of the the humor of this that really works, I think, is that this old lady, because she’s a zombie, of course, like, has a super so she’s throwing these kids around. And as she gets cartered Todd down on the sofa, I guess, has pulled his pants down in the struggle and bites his butt. And I thought, oh my gosh. Carter’s gonna die. I didn’t expect that. But because her dentures were knocked out earlier, all that Carter says is, It’s

Craig:  so gross and so stupid. Like like, she is just face deep in his butt crack. It’s just ridiculous. So then the the zombies are all coming for them and they’re up in Kendall’s room. And the only way that they can get out is there’s a trampoline underneath the window, and they’re like, we can jump out on the trampoline and jump over the 10 foot wall to next door.

Todd:  I have to say the trampoline scene was cool. The notion, like, he leans out the window and they find and there’s a zombie that’s been bouncing on the trampoline the entire time, and he comes up and grabs him and starts to pull him out. And they have to pull, you know, Ben back in. I thought that was a really neat idea, you know, to have this sort of trampoline be their means of escape, but also be, a bear you know, a way that the zombies are getting to them. That was unique. You know, like I said like we said earlier, you gotta find these unique things to do with the zombie genre. And being a comedy, they have a little more leeway and so, of course, throwing a trampoline and zombies on a trampoline was was entertaining.

Craig:  Yeah. It was funny. And, apparently, it was inspired by some video game, one that I’d never heard of, but, apparently, that was an escape route in some video game, so they used it. And then, you know, it was. Like you said, it’s it’s not something you’ve seen a 100 times, which is nice, in a zombie movie. We’ve I I forgot. I skipped over the part where, again, we we have to take a moment for characters to have a heart to heart, and, Ben and Denise have a heart to heart where she’s trying to get him to man up and, like, she finds out that he’s got a crush on Kendall.

Clip:  Don’t take this the wrong way, but you have to man up. Yeah. But I suck at being that guy. I’m not assertive like that. Kiss me.

Craig:  What?

Clip:  Don’t what me. Just do it. Kiss me.

Craig:  Are are you serious?

Clip:  Yeah. I’m serious. I saw you checking out my ass earlier. I know you wanna do it. Just kiss me. No.

Craig:  I wasn’t. Ben.

Clip:  Okay. For a second, I did. Kiss me.

Craig:  And they do, and it’s cute. And she’s like, pretty good. You know? Next time you see Kendall, just lay that on her, and, everything will be cool.

Todd:  Terrible advice, by the way.

Craig:  Right. Right. That that’s that’s exactly what girls want, you know, to walk up

Todd:  to them. Walk straight up to them. Yep.

Craig:  Right. But so everybody else jumps out the window, but Ben is the last one. And right at the last second, the the diary falls out of a drawer or something, and the zombies are coming in, but he grabs the diary. He goes to jump out of the window, but, like, I feel like the zombies kind of grab him, so he kind of loses his bearings and he turns around and he just grabs onto the first thing he can grab onto. He realizes then when he’s, like, dangling there on the ledge that he’s holding on to this old zombie’s dick.

Todd:  And it’s stretching Yeah. As he’s leaning out the window.

Craig:  Carter’s like, hold on to that cock, Ben. And then Ben falls out of the window, and it’s like a a shot for shot remake of when Hans Gruber falls out of the building at the end of Die Hard. It’s slow motion. It’s

Todd:  Except if Hans Gruber had a ripped off, zombie dick in his hand as he was doing it. Right. And and I have to say I have to say, Craig, as as much as I know this is the scene you were talking about, by the way, that I would I would have an opinion about. And as much as this is, like, super juvenile, by now, I knew what kind of movie this was. I was on board with it, and I was even thinking again the same lines. Well, I’ve never seen this before, so I gotta give him that kind of credit. I mean, I don’t know if anybody else would have the guts to do this, but but then they just go the extra mile. And as soon as he’s at the other side of the fence, he tosses the dick back over the fence, and it lands in another zombie’s mouth.

Craig:  Of course it

Todd:  does. Like, come on. Really?

Craig:  This The only other place it could have landed would have been between the zombie cop’s boobs. That would have been the only other

Todd:  No. It wouldn’t have been the only other place. There are, like, maybe 4 options there, to be honest. But, like, I’m like, did this I mean, I know the script was written for 12 year olds, but it was it written by 12 year olds as well? Maybe. Come on.

Clip:  Oh, god.

Craig:  It’s funny.

Todd:  It does go the extra mile.

Craig:  So so then they end up in Cloris Leachman’s house, and I this was hilarious to me because there’s a moment with Cloris Leachman’s zombie cats, the zombie cats attack, And they’re like, you know, they’re these cheap looking it just looks like like one of them is crawling up Auggie’s back. And and I can just imagine that there was just somebody behind him, like, holding this stuffed thing, like, and it’s, like, shakingly comes up behind his back. It’s like

Todd:  It’s not the best effect in the world.

Craig:  No. But but they they they run away, and Denise goes off like she’s gonna go get help. And then the 3 boys go to the party. And that’s where the big kinda final showdown, takes place. There’s there’s a gross zombie eating out a girl gag and that’s how the the zombie plague spreads in the party and then it’s just pandemonium. And and I guess I skipped 1st because they’re boys well, not Boy Scouts. Excuse me. Because they’re scouts, you know, they’re prepared. So they go to the hardware store, and they totally arm up with, like, all these badass homemade weapons. Like, they do something with a weed whacker, and they’ve got nail guns and all kinds of stuff. And so they just are armed to the teeth with all this stuff, and then they go to the party and that’s where the final, showdown is.

Todd:  It’s a lot like from Dust till Dawn actually. That was the first thing that came to mind. It was like From Dusk till Dawn and also Peter Jackson’s movie Dead Alive, where it’s just a complete zombie slaughter with the with power tools. And and that was cool. It was actually really neat scene, I thought. Really well shot. It really seemed big. And these guys come in and they save the day. Ben ends up rescuing Kendall. They end up evacuating the whole building, but the building’s still filled with zombies, and so they tie off the door and the 3 of them go upstairs. They’re gonna have to find an alternate route because they wanna save the rest of the people from the zombies. So they go upstairs and there’s no other way out. And so that’s when Auggie reveals that he’s also made a bomb. And I think and, Carter says, what are you, the Taliban? Because that’s kinda what they’re gonna have to do. They just and they come to the the decision quite easily, that they’re all just gonna blow themselves up along with the zombies to save, to save the rest of the group. And they have a heart to heart moment here where, you know, everybody kinda comes clean. And then, right at the last minute

Craig:  It’s cute. I like I I my I thought it was really cute. Like, they’re trying to get the bomb started, but the the lighter won’t work. And so Auggie Auggie is trying to light it with, you know, a flint Yeah. Like a scout. And Carter turns to Ben and says, would it be totally lame if I held your hand right now? And Ben’s like, no. And so they hold hands. I mean, it’s a silly, stupid little gag, but it’s cute. You know? Yeah. They’re friends. It’s a it’s a scary moment. But, of course, everything works out fine.

Todd:  Yeah. Denise comes in at the last minute, pops open something in the corner, which turns out to be like a garbage chute. And, she’s like, hey. What are you guys doing up here? Get your asses out here already. And so they all jump out, slide out the garbage chute just as the building you know, Auggie manages to light it, the fuse and dives out, and they all get out just as the building is exploding. And that’s the end. I mean, there’s the again, exactly what you’d think. They all kinda make up at the end. Ben ends up walking up to Auggie’s sister and plants the big kiss on her, which, of course, is hugely successful, and, you know, go to credits basically.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s pretty much it. I mean, the military shows up and it seems like they’ve got everything under control.

Todd:  I guess they decided they’re not they’re not gonna bomb it after all. That kinda goes by the wayside.

Craig:  When they when they first get out of the building that the dance was in, they encounter the camp master again and they blow him up, but then, you know, you get the happy ending with Ben getting the girl and all that good stuff. And then there are the credits and the credits are really funny because the first part of the credits play over all of the selfies that, Carter has taken throughout the movie in addition to many, many pictures that he didn’t actually take, but it’s it’s funny. And then there’s just a, like, a mid credits scene where it, you know, is panning up to this building that the final explosion is at, and you just see scout master Roger’s head, and it’s just like, the end.

Todd:  Oh my gosh. Yeah. If you’re not gonna come up with something clever for a post Craig scene, you really shouldn’t do one at all.

Craig:  I don’t know. It made me chuckle. It made me chuckle. I I don’t know. I gotta say, I thought this movie was just it was fun and, like, it’s an hour and a half long. It’s not too long and it’s it’s really fast paced. I mean, there it doesn’t lag at all. You know, there are things going on all the time. As far as zombie movies go, it’s not the goriest one I’ve ever seen, but there’s a good amount of gore. The zombies look good. They look really good. You know, they look like, you know, good zombies from a good zombie movie. There’s violence. There’s scares. I like the humor. I can totally see how the humor would be off putting to probably a lot of people because it is really lowbrow. It’s really juvenile, but, if you if you like movies like American Pie or even like John Hughes movies, I I think that the humor works. It just I I don’t love it. It’s not like it’s my favorite movie or even one of my favorite movies, but just for entertainment value, I I think it’s it’s good. I I would recommend it.

Todd:  I recommend it Todd, and I have to say I had fun watching it too. And I I’m going back and listening to my comments, thinking about my comments now, and I probably sound to our listeners like my dad, you know? Like, I don’t know. This humor is just a little too low brow for me. I just need to make it clear that I enjoy a good sex comedy. I don’t mind low I sometimes, I enjoy lowbrow, and I don’t mind if it goes kinda crazy. But I guess maybe in that case, I want my movies a little compartmentalized. And when you combine the super low brow, super juvenile stuff with this zombie movie that I just wasn’t expecting, you know, and maybe Todd because it’s it’s got Boy Scouts in it, you know, and I guess I just had a different expectation for this film going in. Then it just came across to me as a little misogynistic, you know, in the watching of it. And, you know, in retrospect, having watched it now and having talked about it, they probably sat down and said, hey, why don’t we take a teen sex comedy and combine it with the zombie movie, you know. Right. And that was that was probably the conceit from the very beginning. I just don’t and and maybe it’s because we’ve had, like, Shaun of the Dead and Zombie Land and a lot of these other movies that have followed it or or shortly come before it. I just it didn’t work for me. You know? It just it was just a little off. It was a little off putting. I don’t know. But that’s just, you know, honestly, it’s just my personal opinion. I think other people just like you are are are just gonna think it’s fine. It’s totally my personal opinion.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, and I mean, that’s the thing. Like, it it does I mean, it’s only got a 46% rating on Rotten Tomatoes. You know, critics didn’t love it. It’s it’s not like this I I don’t know if it has any kind of cult following. I’ve certainly not seen anything about it. I think it’s something that’s kind of flown under the radar. I guess kind of the last thing that I would wanna say about it is part of the reason that I liked it is because I thought that the actors did a really good job. I mean, I I I really liked these characters. I found the characters to be really endearing. Endearing. All 3 of the boys, even Carter who was kinda supposed to be the jackass of the group. The dynamic between the 3 boys and then you get Denise in there too who’s really cool. I I just I I really liked the characters, you know, I liked spending time with them. They didn’t get on my nerves. I I wasn’t hoping that they would die. You know? Like,

Todd:  I think

Craig:  that was a big part of why I liked it was the performance of the main characters. Had it been poorly acted, then I think I would have just rolled my eyes and said this is dumb. But, I found the main characters really endearing, and I think that was a big part of why I liked it.

Todd:  I can see that. I think for me, just compared to we have so many other movies almost exactly like this, You know? Shaun of the Dead, Zombieland. You know, I can rattle them off. And so I think the fact that they are so funny and those other ones are just so clever, that almost feels like another movie following in its footsteps or in the same genre has a lot to to look up to. And this one kind of took a different route and went extremely lowbrow. And maybe that’s just why I I knock it down and kind of consider more of a middling movie than, you know, than the others. But again

Craig:  Oh, and I I agree with you all. I don’t think it’s, yeah, I don’t think it’s as good as those movies, but I still like it. Cool.

Todd:  And it was fun talking about it.

Craig:  It was.

Todd:  Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend. You can find us on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, anywhere you find your favorite podcast. We’re also on Facebook. We have a page there. You could like us. You could let us know, what you thought of this movie and also recommend other movies for us to do. We are done with request month now. We’re gonna be moving into, as is our tradition every year, some holiday themed movies for December, coming into the new year of 2018. Also, we have written movie reviews that go up every Thursday on our website. Until next week, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Rounding out Request Month comes a suggestion from Nick Sible about a killer rat. Well, it’s not much of a killer, to be honest. But it does terrorize a pre-Robocop Peter Weller. This also happens to be Shannon Tweed’s first film. What more can we say? Not a whole lot, as it turned out. But you’ve got nearly an hour of head-scratching to listen to here anyway. Thanks for the request, Nick!

Episode 105, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, this month is request month where we fulfill all of our loyal listeners’ every desires. And as it turns out, our listeners are pretty boring, and they just want us to watch movies and jabber about them for an hour. Who knew?

Craig:  Who knew?

Todd:  Today’s movie comes from our listener, Nick S, and, he recommended an old movie I’d never ever heard of before. It’s a Peter Weller and Shannon Tweed film called Of Unknown Origin. Man, I knew nothing about this movie. And even when I went online to find out more about it, there’s really almost nothing there.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  I didn’t know anything about it either. I’d never heard of it.

Todd:  This turns out to be a 1983 film, directed by George P Cosmatis. I think that’s how you pronounce his name. He’s a pretty prolific guy. He’s directed stuff you know, Tombstone Yep. Rambo First Blood part 2, a couple of Cobra, that other Stallone movie back, that Leviathan, kinda one of my favorites, which Peter Weller was also in as a master. I’d forgotten that. Yeah. So, he’s a pretty prolific for what he’s for what he’s done. And then the writer of this film, the film was actually based off of a novel, apparently, a best selling novel called The Visitor, Brian Taggart. And Brian Taggart, you will know from such classics as Visiting Hours, poltergeist 3, episodes of V, The Omen 4. That’s funny. Stuff like this. So, not the most prolific. You know, when I was watching this movie, there was times that I was watching it that I thought I was watching more or less a big budget Hollywood film. There were other times I watched it, I was thinking I was watching a made for TV movie. Kinda. Right? It just kinda depended on the scene, depended on the circumstance. But what this movie really did for me was transplanted me back to the eighties. I mean, the the portrayal of this guy’s job and these people’s haircuts and their outfits and their clothing and their glasses, it could not be more eighties than this. Even the house that this, guy is in, And, the guy’s name is Peter. His house the first shot in the movie is kind of a pan up this house. And from the outside, it looks like this very old it’s like a mansion that looks like a castle, but it’s kinda smack dab in the middle of the city. Right? There’s gotta be a term for that kind of architecture.

Craig:  It’s a it’s a brownstone, and like I

Todd:  I don’t know that.

Craig:  It’s a 3 it’s a 3 story brownstone which is amazing and like that, you know, it’s very New York. It’s especially, you know, like you said, it’s this movie paints the picture of what we all thought New York was like in the eighties. Like, I don’t know if it was really like that, but you know, you know, these business people in power suits walking down the street, and everybody lives in these brownstones. You know, these brownstones in New York, only famous people or the very very wealthy live in them. Yeah. Because, like, they’re they’re kinda like these standalone buildings right in the middle of the city. I mean, they’ve Todd, I mean, they have to be worth 1,000,000 upon 1,000,000 of dollars and we’re kind of just supposed to believe that this kind of, I guess, he’s kind of upper level business financial guy. I don’t know, but supposedly he bought this place and refurbished the whole thing himself, which alright. I mean, willing suspension of disbelief that this guy could afford this huge standalone building right in the middle of Manhattan, but okay. Yeah.

Todd:  Manhattan, which at times looks like Canada because, that’s where it was filmed. Yeah. This guy, Peter, is a Again, like you said, I’m an up and coming businessman, business executive. We meet him and his wife is Shannon Tweed. Now, Shannon Tweed, I mean, I’ve been every other up all night movie that wasn’t a horror film. Shannon Tweed was pretty much it in the nineties. She’s a former, Playboy centerfold, and this was her very first film role. She did a I don’t know. I think she did a couple episodes of Falcon Crest and some TV series before this, but this movie came out, like, 2 years after she posed for Playboy, and then she just took her top off for, I don’t know, over a 100 100 of movies, basically, between the eighties nineties. I knew more the nineties, Shannon Tweed, and this is the much younger, like, I don’t know, like, twenties or early thirties Shannon Tweed. And, yeah, she’s pretty stunning, but she doesn’t have a lot of airtime in this movie.

Craig:  No. No. And that’s, like, when I was reading about the movie, there everything I saw was, like, it’s Shannon Tweed’s first movie, and, she gets, you know, she gets the and introducing Shannon Tweed Mhmm. In the opening credits. And she’s the main guy’s wife. So I was expecting her to have more of a role, but when I was looking at the IMDB page, she’s listed like 5 characters down.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And it makes sense because she’s really not in it. Like like, she shows up in the first 30 seconds so you can look at her boobs. Yep. And then and then after that, I can only imagine that she probably could have filmed all of her stuff in a couple of days.

Todd:  Yeah. And and on somewhere far, far away because she’s hardly with her husband in most of it.

Craig:  Yeah. She’s on the phone for, like, 90% of her screen time.

Todd:  Yeah. Where you could see her in a swimming suit or Yeah. In a tennis outfit. In either case, we don’t get to see her boobs, but we get to see her nipples poking out pretty hard. It’s so bald on its face.

Craig:  Yeah. That you

Todd:  you have to smile.

Craig:  And it’s funny because I didn’t I knew nothing about this movie, and I had no idea what kind of movie it was gonna be. And then so you get that that the opening, you know, the opening shot is of this building or whatever and then it goes inside and the husband I feel like is maybe, I don’t know, laying on the bed or getting dressed or something. And then it goes to her in the shower and I’m like, oh, well, it’s gonna be this type of movie. No, it’s not. It’s just like, we got Shannon Tweed, so let’s just show her boobs real quick, and then we’ll move on. Exactly.

Todd:  It was like Craig Lord’s, Todd Girl and not of this earth. You know? Same deal. Gotta get the boobs in there. And then, well, in Shandtweed’s case, you know, there was a boob there were at least 2 boobs in every movie she did. Anyway, alright. We don’t have to keep talking about she had Todd eat boobs. Let’s Well,

Craig:  we might need to because Well, they’re there. Because there there’s there’s not a whole lot to talk about with this movie. Like that’s what I kept thinking when I was watching it was like, oh my gosh, what are we gonna talk about? And I usually take like pages of notes and I’ve got like 3 quarters of a page of notes here, because what this movie is about is this guy okay, so his wife and kid go on vacation without him. They’re going to visit her dad, and he kinda acts like he’s a little bit annoyed about it. But he has to stay because there’s this new project going on at work that he’s been assigned and if he gets this project done, then he’s gonna get this big promotion. So he can’t go. So we get them out of the picture and then basically the rest of the movie is he realizes that there’s a rat in the apartment and he battles the rat for the rest of the movie and that’s it.

Todd:  Thank you for listening to another episode of You guys in the chainsaw. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend.

Craig:  And you know, we can get into details and there’s some interesting stuff to talk about, but seriously that’s it. Like Todd me it felt more like an episode of The Twilight Zone or Tales from the Craig, where if they had wanted to, they easily could have squeezed this into a half an hour.

Todd:  And maybe they should have. I mean, it’s actually, the way when I was watching it at first, and I knew nothing even, you know, going into it at all either. I didn’t look up a thing. I didn’t know it was about a rat. Did you? Did you know it was about a rat?

Craig:  Well, okay. So you sent me the link, because I watched it on YouTube. You can rent this movie on YouTube. That was the only place we were able to find it. And in the link, when I clicked on it, the the trailer played. So so I saw the trailer, and I saw that it was about a rat, but the the trailer makes it look like it’s gonna be like, there’s gonna be some kind of big twist. Like, the the very end of the trailer shows the the brownstone being all lit up from behind, like, there’s, like, a spaceship behind it or something. So I I thought there I thought that there was gonna be some big twist like these were alien rats or something. Oh, no. You were waiting.

Todd:  You were waiting for the whole movie, weren’t you? Oh, man.

Craig:  It’s just a just a regular old schnauzer sized rat.

Todd:  I didn’t even realize at first it was gonna be about a rat because there’s a there’s a couple shots at the beginning where he’s making toast or whatever. Mhmm. Standing, and there’s his toaster is there, and you see just what looks like a shadow Mhmm. Creep across the toaster and the reflection and go away. I thought, oh, that’s creepy. It’s, like, like, sinister or something, you know? And, there’s another scene when he comes home from work. He’s been put on this big project. There’s there’s all kinds of unimportant banter about this project that he’s he’s been moved from this account to this other account.

Clip:  Why in the name of Job did you pitch that pyramid thing to James Hall? Man, I was flying with that green beep. Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah. Look, I need a hands on guy, Bart, who’s right to handle the reorganization of all of the branch offices of this trust company. Somebody with new ideas, not old ones with a face lift. Well, this is the topic of the day. I mean The topic is over. I need a package for the board of directors meeting in 2 weeks. In 2 weeks? Can you do it? I have to ship some things. Which is why I gave Pyramid Todd Hall. And Laurie can handle whatever else you’ve got. I’ll give it a shot. It’s yours, kiddo, because you know what’s riding on.

Todd:  You know, it’s just all bunch of office finance gobbledygook that we don’t need to understand. We just know it’s really important. And so, he comes he comes home from his job and he’s walking around the the darkness and and there’s a lot of music throughout this film that plays. It’s really creepy. And again, you see this shadow, this really big shadow kind of almost it was almost like the shadows slinking away from him or away from his shadow, and I was like, oh, this is this is gonna be sort of creepy haunted house kind of things in the shadows kinda movie. Then you just start seeing a lot of close ups of, of rats.

Craig:  Yeah. Like, the first one you see it’s like an I mean, I guess maybe it was a real rat paw, but it’s such an extreme close-up that it looks huge. And so it looks like, you know, scary evil rat hand. And so, like, I thought maybe it was gonna be, like, demon rats.

Todd:  We put that

Craig:  on. In a sense, it kind of is because this rat that he battles is, like, the most wicked, vicious, horrible rat you can imagine. Like, I I was when it wants Todd be yeah. When it wants Todd be I was I was talking to my partner about it last night Todd, like, he was rolling his eyes like, I don’t care. I don’t I don’t Todd to see this movie. I don’t want to talk about it. Save it for the podcast. But I was telling him I was like, so the rat, when you act like, when it attacks, because eventually it does, like, it starts attacking him and stuff, it’s the size of a small dog. Like, it’s it’s huge. But but any but then they show all these close ups of it, and it’s just these extreme close ups of real rats. Like, real and real rats are not the or at least none that I’ve ever seen in movies or anything are are are that big. So, like, there’s just kind of this discrepancy, like Yeah. Like when you when you see the footage of the rats, they look I mean, they’re dirty and wet and gross. Like, they try to make them look as gross as possible, but they just look like rats. And then when this thing attacks him, it’s this huge thing that he’s fighting with, and it makes, like, squealing pig noises, which is kind of hilarious.

Todd:  That’s one of the problems with the movie is the scale is not consistent at all. And you don’t even realize you you really want it to be a big rat. You know? Like, the whole time I’m watching this, I’m like, okay. I hope this rat is huge. I hope this rat is huge. And and you’re seeing these close ups of it. You’re like, well, of course, they had to close-up film a rat, but, you know, there’s no context. You know? So it’s it’s like the attack of the giant ants, you know. They film these rats really close-up. It’s what they had to do. But then you get these shots that are point of view shots of, like, the rat scurrying between the walls where it hit his chewed through the 2 by fours, a little passageway for itself. And, I mean, it couldn’t be more clear that this rat is smaller than the width of a 2 by 4. Right. And so, like, what is it? You know? It’s just very disappointing. And it can get into the, you know, the closet. It could be on shelves in the closet or shelves in in a small cabinet or cupboard. It can come up through the toilet. But at the same time, like you say, it it’s like bashing itself against the door like like a dog, and I don’t think we were we were working with 2 rats here. That was not the twist at the end was that there were 2 rats. There was just 1. So, yeah, that was a that was a problem with the movie, I thought, was the general, I don’t know, kind of confusion, which leads to a little bit of lack of terror. Does that make sense?

Craig:  Yeah. I I I feel like the movie okay. So, gosh, you know, we’re just kinda all over the place, but it’s because we can’t really talk about plot because seriously, the plot is he just fights this rat in his house. And, like, there’s, you know, it starts out normal, like, he tries to set out, you know, regular rat traps and and that doesn’t work because the rat just chews through them. And so then he gets, like, these big medieval torture chamber.

Todd:  Rat traps. Where you get these things, but I don’t even think they’re legal.

Craig:  I can’t like, they look like bear traps. And he’s and he sets those around, and it doesn’t work. And then, like, the rats just, like, tormenting him, and, like, you know, eating his food and chewing up his mail. Like, that was another thing that I loved. Like, it was like this rat really had a vendetta against him. Yeah. Because at at one point, he calls and it’s like, he doesn’t wanna call an exterminator at first because the super of the building next door

Clip:  Come on. Exterminator, what are you kidding? It’s for little old ladies, and people don’t wanna get their hands dirty. You don’t have any problem with that, do you? Getting your hands dirty? No. I got no problem getting my hands dirty. See, I renovated this house from the bottom up. See? Jeez. Very nice. Very nice. Be horrible if an exterminator came in here and unrenovated it from the bottom up. Tear out your cabinetry over here, took this out, maybe got behind the wall because that’s what they do, man. They wreck the place.

Craig:

But eventually, when things have gotten really bad and obviously this rat is out to get him, he eventually calls an exterminator and he says to the exterminator: Okay, I won’t be home, but I’ll leave you a key in the mailbox or something and then I’ll leave the check underneath the hood of the turntable, like the record player. Yeah. And he does and then he comes back and the rat is still there. It’s playing the piano. It’s like, I guess it’s supposed to be like on the on the chords or the strings of the piano and this is the piano is playing. And he calls the guy and he’s like, what are you doing? You came and you took my money and the rat’s still here. And the guy’s like, you butthole, there was no money. And, like, he looks around, and he founds that the rat has taken the check and chewed it up.

Craig:  Like, the rat like, the rat knew that this was the check for the exterminator. Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Todd:  It’s pretty funny. It’s pretty funny to talk about. I honestly felt like you could take the sinister music out of this movie, replace it with comedic lighthearted music, and this movie would play as a comedy. And in fact, as I was going through it, I was bouncing back and forth. I was like, is this supposed to be funny? Is this supposed to be a black comedy? Because it’s taking itself awfully seriously at points. But yet, at other times, you know, like, there’s a moment where he’s, he’s in the living room reading, and it’s really late at night. And the he hears the rats scurrying up above him, and he stands up on a chair, and he takes the novel he’s reading and slams it against the ceiling to try to get it to stop. And, And, of course, it’s Moby Dick.

Craig:  Moby Dick. Yeah.

Todd:  And I think the Todd man in the sea is, like, showing on TV, like, once. Yes. It’s just so there are these little nods, these cute little funny things. And, again, it just it’s it’s really so comical by the end of it. And I think part of what helps too is this guy, this super. It reminded me a little bit of fright night, you know, how, the kid thinks there’s a vampire living next Todd. So he goes to his friend who’s, like, the vampire expert. Right. Right? And then he keeps going back to him, and he keeps telling him all this new information or lost boys or whatever, you know, the same kind of deal with Corey Feldman’s character.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Right. This guy was like that. It’s like, yep, you got a rat. You you got to take care of it, but can’t just, you know, bring exterminators and okay. So then he puts out the traps. I tried the traps. It Todd work, and he’s like, oh, no, you can’t use those traps. Those are my grandma’s traps, you know. You gotta get so he gets the bigger ones. And he keeps going back to this guy for information or for advice. And eventually, he goes to, like, an army surplus dude, and and he’s buying, like, heavy duty equipment, like, leather jackets and, lights to put on his head and and, it gets again, it it just it ups the stakes, but it ups the stakes in a way that a comedy ups the stakes where this guy is going to more and more extreme measures, towards this rat in the house. Yet, I feel like the movie just is really trying hard to make this seem so sinister Uh-huh. That it just doesn’t work either direction. You know what I mean?

Craig:  Yeah. Well, and you know, like you said there, he’s trying all these different things and like it it’s it’s so extreme, like, we talked about the medieval torture rat traps. And and then he goes and he buys poison.

Todd:  We got 2 main kind. This one thins the blood, and this one works with water. What’s the difference? That’ll turn him into a walking Hemri.

Clip:  Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I don’t want him to bleed all over my furniture. How about the water torture?

Todd:  Steer clear of him for this one. It’ll give him a powerful thirst. He’ll run for water. Keep your toilets closed and no water around. He’ll aim straight for the sewer and drink until he bursts. Pop like a balloon.

Clip:  Really?

Todd:  You watch out, steer clear of him,

Craig:  you get in his way and he’ll go right through you. What was kind of funny to me was when he gets this poison, he just, like, sprinkles it all over the house. Like, that can’t be right. I don’t think that’s how rat poison works. Like, I don’t think you

Todd:  The rats just go up. Oh, here’s an interesting powder I haven’t tasted. Yeah.

Craig:  Oh, right. And and the rats, like, always watching him, like like, I see what you’re doing, mister. I’m not gonna eat that stuff. And and you just see that like the tail slither around a corner or something. It really is funny. I mean, there was a movie I feel like they’re in the mid nineties or something with Nathan Lane that was called like mousetrap or mouse house or something, which was basically the same premise except it was a kids movie and they were trying to get some mouse out of the house. But like, it’s the same it’s the same thing and the other thing that I thought was was comical was I think that this is supposed to be kind of a psychological movie kind of in the vein of like Edgar Allan Poe with, like, the telltale heart or something where your main character is getting increasingly more crazy as the tale goes on. But the crazier he gets, the funnier it is. Like Yeah. His crazy is funny. Like, it’s like wide eyed, shifty eyed, putting on military gear crazy. And and it doesn’t it doesn’t play it for the humor at all. Like you said, like it takes itself very seriously, but it’s pretty darn funny.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. It is. And what also kind of is is a little silly about it is that he gets all this gear. Right? And I think for the last half of the movie, he’s got a baseball bat he’s just carrying around with them everywhere he goes. And anytime he actually is at a moment where he knows where the rat is, he just runs away from it. Right? Or he doesn’t pursue it. Like, for example, here’s the rat. It’s obviously inside of the piano, you know, walking on the keys or whatever. Right. He sneaks up to it. He slams the lid of it down and and to trap it inside. And you’re like, okay. He successfully trapped the rat inside this piano. Right. Then he just like slowly lifts it and sticks his hand in.

Craig:  Yeah. And I didn’t understand that at all. I don’t I what what was even re what was he reaching in there for? I didn’t even understand what was happening.

Todd:  He was reaching in there for a rat trap that he put in. So he reaches his hand in, He pulls out the rat trap that’s already tripped, and he’s like, damn it, and throws the rat trap. And I’m like, what? Like, the rat is presumably still in there. Like Right. And and and things like that just happen through the whole movie. I mean, if he’s gonna carry this baseball bat around, then when the rat comes into to view, you gotta run after and hit it. Instead, he gets scared by it, and he lets the rat go off. And and he doesn’t even follow it, you know, most of the time. There’s there’s a scene where he’s in the bathtub. Right? And he’s falling asleep. He has a funny dream sequence about his wife and his son. Yeah. And, when he wakes up, the rat has is is attacking him. And so he just runs out of the bathroom, knowing that it’s still in the bathroom, and leaps up onto a hammock that is strung up across his son’s room. And I don’t know if that’s a hammock he put up there, if it was a hammock that had a stuffed animals in it or something or what. Was it a hammock in their bedroom? Was that their sex hammock? I don’t even know. I don’t know. Come to think I don’t know. I don’t know what the hammock was doing there. Anyway

Craig:  I I also don’t really understand the I mean, I get that this is supposed to be it’s it’s it’s a standalone building. So they have the whole building, But I never really understood the geography. Like, I never really understood where he was in relation to other places. Like, because, at at some point he goes down into well, the the super, the next door super tells him, well, did you check the boiler room? And he’s like, no. I put stuff in the basement, but I didn’t check the boiler room. Like, you’ve got, like, a sub basement?

Todd:  Like, I don’t even understand what’s happening.

Craig:  And and so then when he when he goes down there, he finds, like, this sewage pipe that the cap has been screwed off of. So I guess and he’s like, oh, now I know how you got in here, like the rat screwed off this thing. I don’t know and and like and I feel there is stuff peppered throughout, like you mentioned Moby Dick and the Todd man in the sea, like we’re supposed to get these references. So he finally figures out that the rat is, I guess, you know getting in through the basement or whatever and he finds a whole nest of baby rats and that’s the first time that the rat, like, attacks him, like, squealing like a pig. I guess, like, it’s protecting its young or whatever. And he just, like, he just drops all the rats and and runs. And seriously, this rat that we never really see, I mean, we kind when it’s big and attacking, I mean, we kinda see it just looks like he’s kind of wrestling with a stuffed animal. But, like it it’s got a hold of his his pant leg and it’s like pulling him like a dog would pull him and and he gets out of there. But there are just so many holes, like, okay, so you found this whole nest of rat babies and yet we’re led to believe that you’re only dealing with 1 rat. Like, that’s not how rats work. Like, the

Todd:  the the movie

Craig:  the movie even takes the time to tell us that.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  My favorite scene in the movie, well, it’s twofold. First of all, he goes and he does research on rats and so we get to see all these gross pictures of rats, like, eating their babies and eating each other and like just all these nasty videos and things. And then he goes to this big important business dinner where he just goes off on this huge monologue about rats.

Clip:  Did you know that over 1 fifth of all the grain on this planet is destroyed by rats? And that’s more than drought, flood, or even insects destroys. Did you know that?

Todd:  No. I didn’t.

Clip:  That’s over 5,000,000,000 pounds of food alone in this country. Now can you imagine how many mouths that would feed? Not to mention the possible fiscal loss it must mean Todd the company like this?

Todd:  No. I can’t.

Clip:  Yes. It’s extraordinary. In the 14th century, the rat carried the bubonic plague flee that killed 1 out of every 3 people from India to Iceland. Yeah. It’s true. Can you believe that? The most horrible catastrophe in history. Over 1 third of the entire population of the civilized world is struck by rats. Not bombs, not guns, but rats. You take your average rat, it can wriggle through a hole no bigger than a quarter, swim half a mile and tread water for 3 days. They can eat through lead and concrete with these teeth that are like chisels that exert an unbelievable £24,000 per square inch per tooth.

Craig:  Really?

Clip:  Yeah. They can survive being flushed down a toilet, enter a building by the same root. They can fall 5 stories down to the ground, run off unharmed. And 2 rats, mind you, 2, just 2 give you 20,000,000 rats in less than 3 years. And they say now there’s many rats on this planet now as people.

Craig:  And it’s hilarious. And everybody is listening to him and they’re, like, trying to eat their food. He’s talking about how disgusting rats are.

Todd:  In some cultures, how they eat rats and it tastes like stringy chicken, and they’re all, like, pulling the chicken out of their mouth. Yes.

Craig:  It’s funny and I feel like it’s all supposed to lead, you know, we’re supposed to see that his mental state is deteriorating, but it really just plays really funny to me and and it’s funnier to talk about it than it is to watch it. Like watching it, it’s just I wouldn’t say it’s boring, but like I said it could have been condensed into half an hour, and I think that it would have been more entertaining.

Todd:  Well, you know important account that’s at work, and this is obviously interfering with that. Like, he’s not able to get his work that’s at work, and this is obviously interfering with that. Like, he’s not able to get his work done, and he every time he comes into work, the secretary is getting more and more worried about him. He’s getting more pressure from his boss like, I’m not sure you can actually perform. You know, you gotta take care of whatever’s going on at home and he’s falling asleep at his desk. So there’s that aspect of it. Then, Then, of course, there’s that natural thing where nothing he’s doing to the rats, these successively bigger and bigger things are are getting resolved. And then he starts having these nightmares, these dreams kind of where his kid and his wife are involved. Mhmm. Like, his kid’s eating rat poison or his wife gets attacked. And I’m thinking, well, there are a couple of things I’m thinking throughout this whole thing. First of all, I’m waiting for the stakes to to finally get that high, you know, beyond the one guy in this house against this rat that seems content to let him sleep at night and do his work when he needs to, but tortures him endlessly whenever the the film calls for it, basically. But then I’m thinking, okay. Yeah. But then his wife and his kid are gonna come home, and they’re gonna subjected to this, or maybe they’re gonna come home early, and they’re not gonna know about the rat. So there’s gonna be, like, some serious danger here. How’s this gonna come to a head with his account at work, especially after this what had to be like an embarrassing, you know, business dinner? There’s even a scene where his, secretary comes home with him and ostensibly, just to drop him off, and he says, oh, yeah. Come in and have a look at the house. And they have this very short and kinda strange scene where they have an intimate moment. And it’s like he’s complaining about his wife a little bit and about how maybe she’s a little distant from him. Their expectations are a little are a little different, and she comes up close to him. And they lean in and they have a kiss, and then the noise from the rat, you know, makes a sound, and he says, I think you need to go home. So now there’s an additional thing apparently with his secretary and some you know? I I mean, there’s infidelity happening, right, potentially, at least the the the marks of it. And so there’s all this web of stuff that ends up every bit of it just kind of falls away. Right? Yeah. The the kid and mom never come home until the very end after everything is finished. Nothing ever happens with this infidelity. His his boss at work at some point, it turns out that the people who they were supposed to meet from, you know, the other clients or whatever from the big city from the other cities couldn’t make it in. And so he says, oh, I guess you got 2 more weeks to work on this.

Craig:  Yeah. Everything just kinda falls into place. Those dream sequence scenes now, initially, at with the first dream sequence, it was, like, the kid’s birthday or whatever and and the the wife, like, puts down the birthday cake in front the kid and then the rat jumps out of it and everybody screams. At that point, I was thinking, oh, okay, well they’ve come back. But then after that happened, I thought they’re not coming back. They’re not gonna come back and be a part of this. And so then later when there was another dream scene where he dreams that they come home and, like, the wife, like, immediately mounts him while the the kid is in the kitchen making up some rat poison cereal. I knew that they weren’t going to really come back and at least until everything was taken care of, like you said, which is what happens. But then that whole scene with him and the secretary, and I and I don’t even know if she’s a secretary or if she’s a part I don’t even know who

Todd:  she was. Yeah.

Craig:  That’s true. But, Assistant

Todd:  at the very least.

Craig:  Yeah. It seemed like it. I really didn’t like that scene because it just served to make him unlikable and like gross, like and and that’s it. Like Todd doesn’t go anywhere like

Todd:  No. And it comes out of nowhere because you don’t see this kind of chemistry between them in any of the other office scenes where they’re it’s all business. Right.

Craig:  I just didn’t like that scene. And again, it’s just another example of you could that’s something you could have cut to make this a little bit shorter. And it’s not like it was a long movie, it’s only an hour and a half movie and I I would I wouldn’t say that I was bored necessarily, it was fine. It just was just okay and you know, we’re doing requests this month and we’ve got some interesting requests, and it just I I I find myself sitting here wondering what is it about this movie that made somebody want us to talk about it. And I’m happy I’m happy to talk about it. I’m happy to talk about it, but I don’t know. Nick Seibel, is that he said? Yeah. Yeah. Nick. Nick, chime in in the comments. Why did you want us to watch this movie? I mean, it’s fine. We did. I’m happy to talk about it, but love to hear your take

Todd:  on it. Well, it’s just it’s just kinda middle of the Todd. You know? Again, that’s what that by the end of it, I did feel like I’d seen a made for TV movie in a way. It was just so middling. Nowadays, made for TV movies are pretty good. But back in the eighties, made for TV movies were just kinda, oh, that was nice, usually. And then he does all these kind of strange and completely unreasonable things, and I think that made it more difficult to to buy the whole psychological breakdown of this person because well, let’s be honest. Peter Weller, he’s kinda stony faced in every role he plays. He doesn’t seem to have a lot of range as an actor. Maybe I’m wrong, but, you know, I’m thinking of him from, like, Robocop and from

Craig:  He’s done a lot of TV work lately. His name is so familiar to me, but I feel like I just haven’t watched a lot of his stuff because he wasn’t really that familiar to me. He was the star in Robocop. He was in Naked Lunch if you saw that.

Todd:  Star in Robocop. He was in Naked Lunch if you saw that. But, played the kind of the same kind of guy there. He was Adventures of Across the 8th Dimension, which is something I’ve I haven’t ever seen a 100% through, but, you know, popped in and out of it. He just has a look to him and a way of acting that’s not terribly emotional.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  He always tends to be the dark, broody guy or in the case of Robocop, the robot. Right. And in this movie, you don’t really see anything but dread from him. It’s dread from work. It’s dread from the rat. And so where can you go? How do you get more dread? You don’t. You just get more stony faced, except this time, you have a lot more gear, You know? It’s just sitting around the house. And and to be fair, it does culminate at the end like it’s supposed to in a huge showdown with the rat. But, honestly, that even at this point, it’s just a rat. Right. It’s only 1. And up till now, it hasn’t killed anybody.

Craig:  It has Except the cat.

Todd:  Except the cat. Yeah. That was another thing. Let’s come back to

Craig:  the cat. Let’s come back to the

Todd:  cat in a second. But except for the cat, it hasn’t killed anybody. It hasn’t tried to gut him in his sleep. It’s basically left him alone except for a few moments, and, otherwise, it just tears stuff up. You know, at one point, it tears up his work, and I think, oh, great. All hell’s gonna go loose, and that gets dropped. At the end of the movie, when he’s going crazy and he’s got his bat that he has nailed nails into Mhmm. And his completely leather geared up outfit and his helmet and the whole 9 yards. I’m sorry. Even a rat the size of the dog is not gonna get through this guy before he could kick it or whack it with this thing. You know? It’s just not gonna happen. It’s not this rat that we’ve seen. You know? Right. And so it seems to me when he’s running around the house, destroying his own house to get to this rat, the rat was on the defensive pretty much the whole time unless he brought the house down on him somehow. That was the other thing. I thought maybe he’s secretly chewing through all the 2 by fours, and the house is gonna come down on him or something, you know. But I I was looking for anything.

Craig:  Well, and and that’s the thing. Like, I feel like the guy if we I don’t even feel like we I don’t even think we said his name Bart. His name is Bart. Bart thinks that this rat’s like out to get him and you know the movie kind of goes out of its way to make it seem like it is, but really it’s just doing rat stuff. Like, it’s just you know chewing through the walls, eating the food. At some point, it finally chews through the electrical wires and Bart’s like, I wondered when you’d finally get to that. Like I get it, but, you know, you think this rat’s out to get you, but that’s what rats do. And that was the the other thing that I kinda kept thinking about. Like, this is in New York City, there are rats,

Todd:  like like we’re gonna make

Craig:  a whole horror movie out of one guy’s battle with 1 rat? Like, I could just imagine people living in New York being like, yeah, buddy. You poor thing. You’ve got 1 rat in your house. I’ve got 14 living in my pantry.

Todd:  For sure. Right?

Craig:  I know it’s silly. But then you you talk about that last, the the final battle is is really just funny. I mean, I wasn’t laughing at it. I I wish that it had been funny enough that I could laugh through it, but really I was just kind of stone faced watching it. But that’s when he’s got his big bat and he’s got his shin guards on and he’s got, you know, all of this protective gear on and really I knew what was gonna happen. You know, he was so concerned about preserving his home in the beginning and then we were supposed to have seen him go through all this mental deterioration, where he’s totally blown off his work and he’s made everybody at work mad, and and he’s just obsessed with this rat. Well, he kind of has to be because it keeps messing with him. But I knew that it would get to the end and the end would just be him totally destroying the house, and that’s what it was. Like he he has that bat and he like he starts in the basement and the the rats down there and like he bust open a pipe and so there’s water shooting everywhere. And then he just goes through the house just destroying everything. Yeah. You know, presumably chasing this rat who, you know, we see the tail scamper away every time he swings the bat or whatever, but he he just destroys the house. And I feel like this was supposed to be symbolism, but it was so heavy handed that I just could hardly handle it. In the basement, there’s like a scale model of their brownstone. Like a dollhouse version of their brownstone. And at one point the what the point that I was getting to was that he destroys that with his bat. Like, okay, I get it. You’re gonna destroy your house. But one of my favorite stupid parts of the movie was when he had all these medieval traps set and he set one of them in the dollhouse and then I guess he’s going to retrieve it or check it or whatever, but it’s been moved a little bit. But like he’s just fumbling his hand around inside the the dollhouse like, where is it? Where is it? I’m like, you idiot. You’re gonna spread

Todd:  it on yourself. And he did. Like Yeah. Really stupid. Really dumb. Yeah. Stupid as reaching his hand into the, piano. You know, another moment of supposed attention that led nowhere that also didn’t make any sense was, at some point, his secretary, I think it’s then maybe the night before his his work is due or something, decides that she’s going to break into his house. Right? She just rifles through his desk and finds clearly marked it says desk set, which I think just means the set that you keep in your desk. Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe I’m too young for this reference. Anyway, so, she takes it, and she instead of knocking on the door, she just lets herself into his home. And then I mean, remember, she has no idea that any of this is going on. Mhmm. She the only idea she has is she seemed like rat, like well, obviously, him talking about the rats at the dinner. I think she was there. And, you know, she seemed like magazines and things about I mean, he’s clearly, he’s got some weird rat obsession. Right. But, anyway, she doesn’t know what what he’s facing at home. In fact, from that earlier scene, the only thing she can logically think that he’s facing at home is some kind of depression about his wife and son. At least, I think that’s what the movie was trying to set up. So she comes into this house and is, like, meekly hello? And then spends the next 10 to 15 minutes quietly prowling around like she’s expecting something to jump out around the corner any moment. It makes no sense, a, why she’s there, b, why she just didn’t announce herself, and then, c, why she’s creeping around the house like there’s something to be scared of.

Craig:  And she’s and she’s walking around in her stocking feet, and so we we just we see her feet, like, just walking right by these medieval rat traps like, like, yeah. She’s gonna step in one of the scary rat traps, but she doesn’t. She just finds him and he’s crazy.

Todd:  There’s no payoff there whatsoever. She doesn’t get attacked by a rat. She doesn’t step into the rat trap. She sees him on the stairs, and he’s like, you need to leave.

Craig:  Yeah. He’s, like, in squatting position with, like, an army helmet on. Yeah.

Todd:  And so she goes, and that’s it. Another scene that clearly could have been cut. So let’s go back and talk about the cat Because the cat comes into play after the first seed where they almost made out, and he drops her off or lets her go. Then he turns around, and he sees a cat on the stoop of the house and is like, You’re gonna help me out. And he picks up this cat, brings it in, and has a charming little conversation with this cat on the kitchen counter.

Clip:  Hey. Look at this sweet taste. What do we got in here? That’s a saucer. Yes. Over here, would you like some old ketchup for me?

Craig:  You like the lime? Mhmm.

Clip:  Oh, okay. How about a cucumber or a banana? What’s in here? Let’s see what we got in here. Did you know that I was king of all the goodies? You

Craig:  know that?

Clip:  Oh, good. 2 week old oysters. Want some of those?

Craig:  Oh, I

Clip:  like those. I used to have a puddy just like you, yet my wife sneezes, so I can’t have one anymore.

Todd:  And I have to think that most of that was ad libbed. Again, another thing that has absolutely no payoff, the cat just walks around the house.

Craig:  And the rat stalks it. Like, there are so many funny things going on here. Okay. So he just, like, he sends her off in the taxi, and then he’s, like, oh, hello, kitty. And he picks up this beautiful cat. Like, I imagine street cats in New York Are not gorgeous. Not being, like, these beautiful house cats and, like, he picks it up and it’s totally docile and nice and he takes it in the house. And I I’m thinking, like, a, if that’s an alley cat, that’s not what alley cats are like. B, if that’s really what that cat is like, you just stole somebody’s cat.

Todd:  Just scan that thing for a chip.

Craig:  And And then he takes the cat in and this poor pretty cat is just, you know, we just see shots of it like walking around the house like a cat would, like the rat like stalking it from above, like the cat will be walking under a glass table and you’ll just see the rat’s big wet gross paws on the tabletop. And then eventually, like Craig, there there is a payoff, but not much of one because he the guy, Bart, just wakes up one morning and he goes to get milk. And as he’s pouring his milk, blood starts to drip into it, and he looks up and there’s the poor dead cat, like, just hanging over the side of the refrigerator. And again, it’s it’s like this rat has a vendetta. Well, you know, like, it’s it’s intentionally taunting this guy.

Todd:  Do you think it’s because he messed with their babies or something? Is that what it was? I don’t know.

Craig:  But that was Todd believe? I guess. I think it was probably supposed to be, but I also thought that it was funny that, like, he found this rat this nest of rat babies. And then when the mom attacked him, he just dropped it and like he dropped it on a grate and like some of them like fell down through the grate and some of them didn’t. And I frankly expected at the end for there to be a twist because I was like, where are those rat babies? Like, I I thought there would be an army of rat babies that would come to protect their mother, but

Todd:  no. Apparently not. I just I actually I I don’t know if this was going through my mind too because he finds the cat, but before the cat dies is when he gets the poison and puts it around the house. Or maybe it’s after he gets the cat. I’m thinking, are you cleaning up that poison, or are you gonna let the cat eat the poison too? I Well,

Craig:  and there are shots of the cat walking all around those traps. I’m like Yeah. Cats don’t know what traps are. Like, that

Todd:  cat is gonna get caught in one

Craig:  of those traps, dummy.

Todd:  This is not a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

Craig:  Maybe maybe they were I’d like to believe that they were saving the rat babies for the sequel. Oh.

Todd:  I’d like origin 2. The revenge known origin. Oh Todd.

Craig:  Oh, man.

Todd:  You know, I said I wasn’t able to find a lot about this movie online, but one thing I did find is apparently John Waters is a huge fan of this film.

Craig:  So is Stephen King. Stephen King says it’s one of his favorite movies. Yeah. Wow. But I hadn’t read about John Waters. What Well, on IMDB, which of course is a completely reliable source, it says that it’s Stephen King’s favorite movie.

Todd:  There’s no way.

Craig:  I don’t know. Well, there’s that. What did John Waters have to say about it?

Todd:  John Waters had to say it’s the Citizen Kane of rat movies. Wow. I I don’t know.

Craig:  I haven’t

Todd:  I don’t know. I’ve never seen Ben. I’ve never seen Willard or any of that, any of that. But if this is the Citizen Kane of rat movies, I guess we don’t need to bother doing those later on our podcast.

Craig:  Oh, man. I don’t know. And and frankly, like, it’s not a terrible movie. It’s not it’s not terribly made. I mean, some of the giant rat effects are pretty unbelievable and kind of, you know, laughable to look at. But, you know, there’s some suspense and I don’t know. I’m trying really hard to find nice things to say about it because I’ve seen way worse recently. We’ve seen way worse. So maybe I’m being maybe I’m being generous, with this one just because we’ve come off some real crap piles lately, but, it’s it’s okay. Yeah. I I I I’m not surprised that I’d never heard of it before.

Todd:  It it’s a perfectly serviceable film. There’s nothing wrong with it at all, and you might enjoy it with your kids or something. And I bet, you know, it’s one of those movies where if you watched as a kid, it’s way scarier.

Craig:  Yes.

Todd:  You know, and, then you come back and watch it 20 years later and you’re super disappointed. Right. But the cinematography is fantastic.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s pretty good.

Todd:  That in there is really good. There’s some really nice sweeping camera angles, some really interesting things they do with transitions, especially when he’s going off into dreamland and stuff, taking you around the house. They do these little moments where if you like, it doesn’t even call attention to it, so you wouldn’t, you know, you might miss it where where just off in the corner of a scene, you’ll see a little shadow or you see a little rat tail disappearing around the corner, you know, with no fanfare, which is really neat, you know, for them to put these kinds of things in. It’s just in service to a plot that’s just kinda, By the end of it, he meets his family. They all hug out in the front of the house. He invites them in.

Craig:  Oh, my Todd. Bart, what happened here?

Clip:  I had a party.

Craig:  Yeah. There are some really good lines like when he’s talking about how some people in other countries eat rats and he says, a filthy rat on fine China. That was a great line. And then, there’s another one when he’s talking to the rat and he says, this town ain’t big enough for the both of us. I’ve tried dope. Like that like, I’m a badass. I could take care of a rat. I’ve tried dope before. It’s got some good lines, some good funny parts. So, you know, there’s that going for it.

Todd:  Yeah. Alright. So that’s a very tepid, thumbs to the side from both of us.

Craig:  Yeah. Sorry. That’s okay.

Todd:  You know what? Thank you, Nick, anyway, for your recommendation. We do enjoy seeing films that we haven’t seen before, and this was certainly a film that we hadn’t seen before.

Craig:  Mhmm. And we’ll never see again.

Todd:  Well, thank you again for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Google

Craig:  Let us know what you thought of this film. Any other future films

Todd:  you’d like to do? There. Let us know what you thought of this film, any other future films you’d like to do. Earlier, Craig referenced some really interesting stuff that we have seen lately, and, the last movie that we watched before this one, we couldn’t even bring ourselves to talk about. But if you go on to our website at 2 guys.redfortynet.com, you can see the review of Street Trash, another request that we got this month, and we watched it and we wrote about it, and we’re posting these reviews every Thursday as well Todd supplement the audio podcasts. Until next week. I’m Todd, and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Loyal listener Manuel requested this week’s topic – another Roger Corman classic that also happens to be Francis Ford Coppola’s first “legitimate” feature film. Filmed in 9 days for about $40,000, this film is not without its flaws, but really, what more can you expect from its pedigree?

Episode 104, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw.

Craig:  I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.

Todd:  After the, Halloween season, we’re back to request time. Yep. We’re gonna try to fulfill a few more requests that we’ve gotten over this next month, and this one is a long standing request from our long standing listener, Manuel. And he has asked us to do Francis Ford Coppola’s one of his his first films, Dementia 13, which also happens to be a Roger Corman produced film. And we’re Yep. Good old friends of Roger Corman, in spirit anyway. Francis Ford Coppola is one in a long line of directors, special effects people, composers, actors, who Roger Corman’s shop really boosted up and into the Hollywood mainstream. And this was Coppola’s first film that he that wasn’t a nudie cutie. Yeah. Right. Yeah. He did a couple of, yeah, just basically boob movies before this and, was second, I believe, sound director or sound technician on a film that was filming by Roger Corman in Ireland. And as he was known to do, finished early and with about $20 left in its budget and all these actors still under contract. So Corman said to Coppola, why don’t you throw together a script that’s basically a psycho knock off? We wanna see some bloody killings and whatever, and let’s film it real fast with this leftover money. Coppola took that 20, I think it was 22,000, and then unbeknownst to Corman, presold the European distribution rights to the movie and raised another 20 so that he could have a little over $40 to shoot the movie with. And he shot it in Ireland, with a couple of the actors who were still, from that other movie.

Craig:  On the same set.

Todd:  Yeah. On the same set and everything, and put together this little movie called Dementia 13, which has to be, like, the most boringly titled Corman film ever. Like, I’m really surprised it was not like murders at the Irish castle or something like that.

Craig:  Yeah. And it was originally just supposed to be titled dementia, but I’ve I think that, Coppola found out sometime before release that there had been another movie in the fifties that had already been titled dementia. So they added the 13, at a later date, which I didn’t know anything about this movie going in. I didn’t look up anything about it, but if you did look into it at all, you would find out that that 13 is kind of a key to the mystery. Right.

Todd:  If you look deeply within this, intertwining complex plot as you watch this film, you might, you might discover a little hint. You know, this movie is really easy to come by. I I don’t know for sure if it’s in the public domain now, but it sure shows up along with a lot of other public domain movies in those same places. You’ve been able to find it at, like, dollar stores. I don’t know if it’s legitimately that way or not, but just kind of up along there with Night of the Living Dead, I’ve run across this film and, like I said, the same kind of place. It’s always been meaning to watch it, never truly compelled to do so until Manuel asked us to do so as well. So we thought we’d give it a listen. And, yeah, I have to say that when the movie started out, it really had a a Hitchcockian feel to it.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, definitely.

Todd:  You could tell he was really going for a particular style here even though the thing was shot in 9 days. I mean

Craig:  Oh, wow. Yeah. You didn’t know that.

Todd:  Like, only, like, Little Shop of Horrors was shot in a shorter amount of time when you when you look at I think that was shot in, what, 4 days?

Craig:  I don’t know. Yeah.

Todd:  But, yeah. Anyway, I mean, you can’t fault the film too much for being thrown together so quickly. In fact, Coppola used a co writer on the script itself, and, the co writer had said or or maybe it was some of the actors from the film had said that, you know, the reason a lot of the dialogue in the movie is stilted and was actually difficult for the actors to get out was simply because it was such a rush job, you know. So the fact that this movie is coherent at all and is even, you know, halfway good is is a bit of a miracle, I suppose. It’s a testament Todd, you know, some pretty hard working skill, I think, that went into the cinematography and the direction from Coppola, and the actors are really pretty good for what they have to work with. I mean, you recognize several of them.

Craig:  I don’t know about I didn’t. You didn’t. Oh, okay. No. I didn’t. But so I didn’t write down any of their names or anything because I didn’t really recognize any of them. But then afterwards, I went back and looked at, their IMDB pages, and a lot of these folks had been in dozens of movies throughout their career or in dozens of movies. So it’s not like these are amateurs, you know, these are, pretty good actors. And I I have to say that performances were were pretty strong really, especially I particularly liked the woman who played Louise, who is, kind of the main character especially in the beginning, of the movie and Luana Anders. I she was strong. She plays this kind of strong willed woman beyond her character being written that way. I just felt like she had a particularly strong screen presence. She’s very beautiful, but very beautiful in a way that didn’t seem typical of this time period. She she struck me as being very Todd, like somebody that you would see on screen today who maybe, I don’t know how to say it because she is just a beautiful woman, but she’s not kind of cookie cutter beautiful. She’s got kind of a striking appearance to her and Yeah. A a real presence on screen, and I I really enjoyed her. And I I recognized, I think, the guy that played Richard, he seemed familiar to me. I I’m not sure why, but you say, and and I’ve read this Todd, that, the dialogue initially seemed very stilted, and, I also read that when Coppola had finished the movie, Corman saw a screening of it and was just kind of furious and and felt like it was incomprehensible and Todd didn’t have enough of what he wanted which was the the violence and and the shock factor. And so he, if I remember correctly, he actually hired a second director to come in and film some additional scenes to kind of make it more what he wanted it to be. And and those additional scenes, I I know that some of them had to do with Simon the Poacher. And really for me, they seemed a little bit inconsequential. They could have been taken out, it wouldn’t have made any difference. But the movie as it is, is only an hour and 15 minutes long.

Clip:  Yeah. It

Todd:  needs something. Right? Some padding. Yeah.

Craig:  So yeah. I understand why he felt the need to pad it, but as far as the stilted dialogue and stuff goes, you know, I I I didn’t really feel that way. I mean, it Really? It seemed pretty comprehensible to me. I I didn’t I mean, there were parts when I was confused, but it’s a mystery. So I felt like I was supposed to be a little bit scratching my head. But

Todd:  Yeah. I felt like at times it was a little too on the nose. And especially toward the end, there were some really laugh out loud, horrendous lines that really called attention to themselves that I’m sure we’ll get to. But, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, you’re right, but it’s it’s just it’s a very talky kind of movie. And so when there’s not so much action and mostly talking between the characters, they’re always expositioning. Yeah. Yeah. They’re they’re always expositioning every chance they get, and that Todd me is, at times, just felt kind of unnatural. You know, like, why is this guy telling suddenly telling this woman, you know, all of his his deepest, darkest secrets because they happen to be sitting down at a fire together? Things like that. Sure. Just a little unnatural, but you so you didn’t recognize Patrick McGee, the guy who played the detective?

Craig:  No. I don’t even remember there being a detective.

Todd:  Oh, I’m sorry. Not detective. The doctor. The guy who played the doctor. Sorry.

Craig:  You know, I I I for a second there, I was scratching my head like, wait. Did you watch the same movie?

Todd:  You know who I want him to be? I want him to be the detective in Dial in for Murder because he’s like the spitting image of that guy. Yeah.

Craig:  I mean, he was kinda familiar, but just familiar in that sinister, semiforin way that that in in in movies of this era, you know, anybody who is even slightly foreign or who had something of an accent, you’re like, oh, who’s that guy?

Todd:  I think I’ve recognized him the most from the 19 seventies version of Tales from the Crypt and a couple other of these Roger Corman movies, like the mask of the red death. I think he was in die monster die. He’s been in a, actually, a lot of horror films and a lot of these older horror films. Although he’s had roles in, like, Chariots of Fire and Barry Lyndon.

Craig:  He’s a Tony award winner, I read, I think.

Todd:  For sure. And I think maybe one of the strongest, except for the fact that, again, he’s given a lot of silly lines to say, and, I don’t know. We’ll probably end up talking about his character as we go on because it’s, it’s pretty ambiguous. It goes along as it goes along, just what you’re supposed to think of this guy. But before we start talking about things, you know, you had mentioned Luana Anders, and I think where I recognized her from the most is one of my wife’s favorite films of all time, which is the pit and the pendulum starring Vincent Price, which was another Roger Corman movie just a couple years before this one. And I we’ve probably seen that in our house, like, I don’t know, 20 times. And she’s great in that too. She’s late later on, she’s an easy rider with Dennis Hopper. Nothing really significant, but, apparently did a ton of TV. Yeah. I agree with you, and I I got this feeling Todd, like, she almost also seemed like, I don’t I don’t know how to say it, like a typical Hitchcock girl. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  Yeah. Sort of beautiful bombshell. And and like you say, not classically bombshell beautiful, but just has a a certain striking beauty about her blonde, you know, short hair that has a a bit of a edge to her. Right? Yeah. It’s past. And

Craig:  She he reminded me and not because she really looks like her, but she kinda reminded me of, Jennifer Tilly, a little bit. Just kinda like like I don’t know. She’s got a really striking face. Again, doesn’t look anything like Angelina Jolie, but that kind of beauty, like, unexpected. You know? I I I don’t know. Well, I’m getting I’m trying to make it more complicated than it is. She’s very beautiful.

Todd:  Well, and I I think her personality plays into that a little Todd. Because kind of like Jennifer Tilly, she’s got a bit of an edge to her. She she looks like and and this is true of a lot of Hitchcockian heroines or or anti heroines as it tends to be, where they seem like they’ll be playing that role of the era, you know, the, oh, very proper, very kind of nice, naive in some sense woman who all these things happened Todd, Right? Like like like the birds or something or psycho. But as it turns out, she actually is pretty headstrong and has opinions, and she’s not one to be messed with, I suppose, and has her own agenda. And and that I think we get that from the very get go. We don’t know anything really about these two characters, but we soon find out that they are married. Mhmm. And she plays a character named, like you said, Louise, and then her husband, John, go out on a boat. And, again, the dial I I’m sorry, but

Craig:  the dialogue’s really silly right from

Todd:  the get go. He’s, like, running out there, and he’s going on the boat. She’s, like, well, where are you going? He’s, like, I’m going out to row on this boat by myself. And she’s, like, well, I’ll come with you too then. Okay. Tell the audience everything they need to know right

Clip:  here. That will is no good. Your mother’s still alive. We can talk her into changing it. You were always too greedy, Louise. I just don’t like to see her exploiting you. But it’s all over the world. John, you’re rowing too hard. Let me row. You’re concerned about me, Louise? Is it my heart? You’re only a member of the family as long as you’re my wife. If I die before mother, you’re

Craig:  a stranger. And then he has a heart attack, and, she’s like, oh, you idiot. Where are your pills? And he’s like, they’re in my coat, and she pulls them out, and she’s like, it’s empty, you idiot. And then so she starts rowing towards Shore, and he’s like, you better row faster because if I die, you’re not gonna get anything. He, like, literally says that. Yeah.

Todd:  There’s there’s no love lost between these 2, clearly.

Craig:  And and so so then he dies. And so she slaps the crap out of him a couple of times. And then she’s like, what should I do? And so she dumps his body in the lake. She says this out loud. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. What should I do?

Todd:  I need to get rid of the body. She’s already scheming.

Craig:  Yeah. And and I didn’t know. Like I said, I didn’t read anything about this going in. So I didn’t know that it was supposed to be reminiscent of Psycho, but it is. I mean, even before I knew that, I was like, oh my gosh. This is so psycho, because she like, we see her conniving and we hear her voice in voice over, like, what am I going to do? Okay. Here’s what I’m gonna do. I’m gonna throw him in the lake, and then I’m gonna write a letter to his mom and say that he got called back to New York for business and that he won’t be able to come to Kathleen’s memorial, but, of course, he’ll be thinking about them. And, like, we’re hearing all this in voice over as she’s doing it. In a motel room. Right. And so we just get all this exposition of what’s going on. And and so what she her plan is she’s gonna somehow win over the mother, and she even says, she’s like, I know that I can win over the mother or I can get rid of her in some way, but his brothers, I’m not so sure, especially his older brother Richard. I don’t know. It’s gonna be difficult, but, and and so that’s it. I mean, that’s the setup for then, you know, what’s gonna happen.

Todd:  So, you know, initially, I thought that this all happened near the castle, but I guess this happened on their way there. That must be. I don’t because she slips this note under a door. Right? Like, it says mother, and then she slips this note under a door like she’s passing it into the mother’s room or something.

Craig:  Yeah. I I thought that it all happened at this castle. Okay. So the rest of the whole movie takes place at this castle, Castle Halloran. The the family’s name is Halloran. And I thought that it all happened there too, but then stuff happened later in the movie that made me think maybe that wasn’t there.

Todd:  I don’t know. I’m still confused about it. Well, she’s pretty dumb. I mean, like, dumping a body in a lake is guaranteeing it’s gonna come up in a few days, and the same thing with throwing all of his stuff in the lake. Yeah. She’s not real smart about it, but,

Craig:  And she, like, she she packs it, like, oh, okay. What would he take with him? Well, why wouldn’t he take everything with him? 1st, on the leg sheet. Everything he bought. Right. Yeah. Was he gonna leave some

Todd:  of it? Was he planning to leave it?

Craig:  She packs up some of his clothes and his typewriter because he’ll need to type letters on the plane. And then she just she just tosses it in the lake, like, from the shore, like, a suitcase. Like, what do you think is going to happen? Like, that suitcase is just gonna be floating there in the morning. But whatever. It doesn’t matter. Nobody finds it, so it’s fine.

Todd:  And we end up at, Gasol Halloran, big Irish castle. We get introduced in to another character who is Kane. Kane is being picked up at the airport by this guy named Billy, and Billy is one of John’s brothers. So it’s Billy and Richard. And it turns out that Kane is Richard’s fiancee. So I guess they’re planning on getting married not long after Kathleen’s memorial ceremony. And he picks her up, and again they have more dialogue where he gives her a little more information about the family, tells us a memorial ceremony is happening. Sorry that Richard couldn’t come.

Craig:  Sorry that John couldn’t come. You are always, you’re terrible. I am. I’m terrible with these names,

Todd:  man, especially

Clip:  in this

Todd:  and I’ll tell you, in this movie too, they commits this sin. In my mind, it’s a sin. You just can’t do this in films where you have characters that look so much alike.

Craig:  Like, the 2 women look very identical. They are. Like, their hair

Todd:  is the same color. It’s almost the same style. They look. They have the same makeup. It’s like, please, can you throw me a bone here? Please make one a brunette or, like, give her a weird hairdo or put it in a braid or something. Right?

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  I was constantly confusing the 2 and and having to kinda look back and go, wait a minute, which one was that?

Craig:  Well, and we get we get the exposition, like, at some point, Louise is talking to Billy, I think, and, he’s like, how do you like Castle Halloran? And she’s like, oh, it’s cool, but it’s it’s almost like a haunted castle. And and he’s like, well, well, it is haunted. It’s haunted by Kathleen. And, like, they never really expand upon that. Yeah. Like, it like, is it really or is I I I think that maybe he’s being metaphorical. Like, it’s haunted by her memory, or something along those lines. But we get this exposition about how Kathleen died when she was young, and his mother never got over it. And he’s like, she even had a poem. And then he and then he recites this poem.

Clip:  Three sons, each who would marry and go away. But little Kathleen would always stay.

Craig:  We we we find out that at some point, she drowned in the pond. And another problem and I don’t care. It’s not like I’m losing sleep over it or anything. But another problem that I have is supposedly this was only supposed to have happened 7 years ago. And when it happened 7 years ago, Billy was just a child. I don’t know how old Richard was supposed to be, but there’s no way in hell that this guy, Billy, was a kid 7 years ago. There’s just no way. Yeah.

Todd:  He was supposed to be 13. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Hey. You’re giving away important plot twist.

Todd:  So sorry. Spoiler alert. There will be more.

Craig:  I didn’t even I didn’t even catch it until the very end. So that’s fine. You’re just enlightening our 2 listeners. But but yeah. Okay. So Man, well, he’s one of

Todd:  them, and he’s already knows what the story is.

Craig:  Yeah. He knows, so it’s all good. So she died 7 years ago, and the mom never got over it. And there’s lots like you said, there’s just kind of lots of dialogue, but what ends up being exposed is that they reconvene every year here in Ireland, even though Richard and John both live and work in the United States, and they recreate her funeral. Yeah. That’s weird. What That’s sad. Yeah. Right. Why?

Todd:  It’s a lot of trouble for everybody to come back year after year to throw some flowers on a grave. Let’s just Right.

Craig:  And and and Kane, the girl, at one point says, I think or maybe it’s Louise. I don’t know. One of the women says, why do you do this? And, like, nobody ever answers.

Todd:  So that’s a really good answer except Yeah. Except that it’s just to appease the mother, really. She just hasn’t gotten over it, and she insists on it. And and then we get introduced to these characters as things go along, and we don’t get their names immediately or even their relationships quite immediately. And they come and go at odd times. So I imagine that well, at least one of them, like you said, was thrown in after the fact, by department just to give us another kill. There’s an Irish guy who starts talking about how he’s been here for 20 years, and he’s discussing secret passages and and Kathleen, in the castle with Kate, I believe. Right?

Craig:  Oh, I don’t know. Who knows? Who cares? I think one is a cute

Todd:  blonde chick. Yeah. And, and Billy talks with Kane or Louise, one of the 2, and we get lots of flashbacks to him and Kathleen playing. And so we get this notion that she drowned, and Billy either witnessed it or was the last person to see her or whatever.

Clip:  And they

Craig:  See, and that’s where you said things kind of being really on the nose. Like, okay, folks. Things are probably gonna get spoiled, so I I’m sure you’ll be terribly disappointed. But, like, the that very first flashback where we see okay. So they say that Kathleen died, like, they were somebody random was having a wedding at the castle, and Kathleen was a bridesmaid, I guess, even though she was a little girl. She she drowned in the pond on that day. Well, we get this flashback from Billy’s perspective of the 2 of them kind of playing and then kind of roughhousing near the edge of the water. And I’m thinking, surely this is a red herring because this makes it totally seem like Billie had something to do with her death. Like, it wasn’t just a simple accident. And I thought, oh, well, that’s that’s too obvious. So look else look elsewhere look elsewhere because that’s too obvious. No. Yeah.

Todd:  It it they they tried to to add these red herrings. 1 of the red herrings too is Richard. They make Richard off to be the and Richard is like a sculptor, and I guess he brings his studio with him. Right? Right. Because because because half the time we see him, and, in fact, the very first time we meet him, he’s in a studio with a blowtorch and Todd knows what else, making some sculpture. And that’s just kind of his domain.

Craig:  And his sculptures look like nothing. Like, they just look like they just look like scrap metal.

Todd:  Like like the sixties. It’s I don’t know. It’s modern art, right,

Craig:  at the tip. And and apparently, I guess, at least this is what I took away from it, is that this is, like, their family craft. Like, their family has always been artisans. They traditionally had worked in stone, but I don’t know. I guess Richard de Rubble or something. Right. Right. So he’s he graduated metalwork, and and that’s what he does now. But, yeah, he, I think, is because he’s very broody, so we’re supposed to question his character all the time. But Yeah. I don’t know. It’s not particularly well crafted as far as suspense goes. But but meanwhile, I don’t know. I don’t wanna be too here I go, apologizing again. I don’t wanna be too critical of it because, you know, it was suspenseful. I, you know, I I Yeah. Was I was curious as to what was going on. I I really expected this to be more of kind of a haunted castle Yes. Kind of movie than it ended up being. Me too. But really what it turns into, and here’s, really where kind of the cycle influence comes in, is Louise is doing whatever she can. She’s masterminding this plan to get Lady Halloran to, change her will. And so once she finds out about Kathleen, then she They have their ceremony. Right. Right.

Todd:  Which is standing around in the rain under black umbrellas and tossing some flowers onto the grave. And the mother looks at the flowers and it it appears to her that one of the flowers has died as soon as it touches the Craig. So she faints, which apparently she does every year.

Craig:  Every year.

Todd:  Like, they should just be standing behind her, you know, with like a blanket or something. Right?

Craig:  I thought that was hilarious too. Like, lady, if this flower wilts every year, why are you so shocked they pass out every year? It’s true. But but she does. And so then Louise, comes to her and she’s like,

Clip:  there’s something in this house, like music in the hallways, Like a child’s music asking me something, but more like begging me. Painful. She wants you to listen to her, to watch for her signs, and to try it. Do you know what she wants?

Craig:  It’s already been established earlier on that Lady Halloran does not like either of her sons, wife or fiance. Yeah. And she’s very standoffish with them. But as soon as Louise is like, oh, I’m hearing something in the hallway. She’s like, oh, okay. Well, you’re my best friend.

Todd:  And she’s found her Achilles’ heel apparently.

Craig:  Right. And and and I like this. I like her performance. She is very manipulative, and it’s strong. I like her performance. And and so she goes in on, you know, when Lady Halloran’s sick sick bed, she tells her this, and then she’s got this plan where she roams around the house and she eventually finds Kathleen’s room, which is like behind a secret door or something.

Todd:  It’s a weird door.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s like a window. Like It’s like she has to

Todd:  climb in there. Right. Like, it’s not a door door. Yeah. Yeah. It’s bizarre.

Craig:  Which I didn’t get at all. And there’s somebody you know, there’s these all we see is feet, but there’s there’s somebody kind of skulking around and, like, seeing her, and she doesn’t know it. And we do, but we don’t know who it is. It’s a man, or at least it appears to be a man. It’s men’s shoes. And and she crawls in there and, like, there’s some randomly spooky stuff that happens in there, like, poise move by themselves and, like, there’s, like, this wind up, monkey with an axe. And, like, it it starts going toy ever. And every and every time the axe chops down in the score, it’s like, but there’s no explanation for why these toys are just randomly going off for themselves, and Louise is not at all disturbed by it. She’s like, oh, okay. Whatever.

Todd:  I you know, you’re thinking that he’s just trying to squeeze in some jump scares, and I think that was probably the intent. But, also, like you said, they go nowhere. It’s not like there’s this tension, like, she’s gonna be interrupting anything or gonna be heard.

Craig:  Right. Right. K. So so she gathers up a few of these toys, and I I have to say that this is probably my favorite part of the movie. In fact, I was kind of getting kind of excited at this point. And she she gathers up some of these toys, and she goes down to the pond that’s on their property where Kathleen drowned. And I didn’t know what she was doing, but she ties up these toys all up in these twine, ties them together, and then ties them to a wrench. And I’m like, okay. Alright. So she’s gonna anchor these toys in the Todd somehow, but, you know, what’s that gonna be? Well, then she rubs something on the twine, and and I didn’t really understand what was going on, but I’m like, okay. Alright. You know, interesting, whatever. And then she Starts Todd

Todd:  take her clothes off.

Craig:  She strips off all of her clothes, which I thought was really pretty racy for the time. Right?

Todd:  Todd. Yeah. I mean, yeah, she just did her broad panties at that point.

Craig:  Yeah. And and I and, of course, you know, she’s gorgeous. She looks great, but I just for the time, I was like, oh, that’s kinda racy. And then so she dives into the pond with this thing that she’s created, and she plants it in the bottom. And at that point, I’m thinking, okay. Probably whatever she put on the twine, that’s something that’s gonna eat away at it. So, these things pop up, you know, in the ponds, and that is what happens. But this is where things took a total turn for me. Okay. So she she’s swimming underwater, and, you know, this is what, the fifties. Right?

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. Late early sixties.

Craig:  Yep. I thought that these underwater shots were really cool. They were. And you know, I am

Todd:  a sucker for underwater photography. I will watch any movie if it has underwater photography in it. I don’t care. And you know, we’ve reviewed

Clip:  some

Todd:  great we’ve reviewed a, you know, a zombie attacking a shark

Craig:  underwater. Right.

Todd:  I’d I’m always glued to the screen when this when this stuff comes up.

Craig:  It looks really good. I was impressed. And by the way, I okay. So you said this movie is available everywhere, and it is. You know, I I looked on YouTube, and it’s posted, you know, I don’t know, half a dozen times on YouTube, and I found one version that had excellent video quality. I mean it was so clean. It had to be some sort of restored version. It was just, it was beautiful. It was be I mean it looked almost like it could have been shot yesterday in black and white. It was so beautiful, but the sound wasn’t great, and the sound kept cutting in and out. So then I had to, in a different window on my computer, I had to pull up another version that had much better audio quality, but much worse visual quality. So anytime the, the sound would go out on the good video one, I would switch to the bad video one. What the heck? This is dead. Well and I wouldn’t if I didn’t care, I would have just watched the bad video 1. But the the video on the good video one was so clean and so Todd. I I didn’t wanna miss it. And especially in this part, like, it was just real this underwater stuff, I mean, it was really Todd, especially for the time. Okay. So she’s swimming around underwater, and then she sees something, and it’s intentionally distorted. Like, we can’t or at least the one that I watched, it was. Like, I couldn’t really tell what it was that she saw, but it scares her, and she screams underwater, and then she swims back up to the surface to the edge of the Todd, and all of a sudden, there is an axe murderer there, and he kills her fairly brutally. I mean Yeah. The violence is it’s mostly suggested, but you definitely get the hint that she’s kinda getting chopped up. And then she’s dead. And like I said, like I’ve already said 2 or 3 times, I knew nothing about this going in. But at this point, I’m like, oh my god. This is totally psycho Mhmm. Because our main character is getting killed halfway through the movie. Yeah. And I didn’t expect it at all. I didn’t see it coming

Todd:  okay. Now I really don’t know where this movie is going. You know? I guess it’s gonna be about this axe murder, but, yeah, that came completely out of left field. It was fantastic.

Craig:  Yeah. I love that. I thought that was fan and and whatever. I what I read was that Corman specifically wanted kind of a psycho knock off. And in that way, in the way that they kill off the main character halfway into the movie, it certainly is. But beyond that, I mean, they’re completely different stories. You know, it’s it’s not like it’s cookie cutter copy. Yeah. So I I I don’t discredit it, you know, for for being a knockoff. Even though I know that that was kind of Corman’s wheelhouse, you know, he he did that. But, whatever. It’s fine. Anyway, so moving forward, it kind of does become the mystery of who is the psycho ax killer.

Todd:  Right. They have lunch, out in the lawn, and we this is, I think, around the time we get to meet the doctor. We saw the doctor a little bit earlier who is consulting. And and it’s funny because this doctor, I guess, is also a bit of an amateur psychiatrist or something. He’s really trying to diagnose the mother’s mind as well. And the doctor’s a very interesting character, I think, in this, in that when he comes on, and I think this is a scene before this, but it’s really worth talking about. When he’s talking with the mother, he’s really trying to tell her to let go.

Clip:  Consider your mind as a bird in your hand. When it’s relaxed, it lies quiet and easy. And when it’s tense and frightened, strange to leave you. What I want you to do is to rest and to relax your mind. Remember the, bird in your hand?

Todd:  Then he says some really strange things to and I think it’s just the on the nose writing, but when they were looking for Louise, the mother asks for Louise. Mhmm. It’s because, you know, of this earlier thing. I guess she wants to find Louise to see if she, has heard anything more from her dead daughter. Right. And, the maid comes in, and the the doctor’s, like, immediately on this.

Clip:  And my daughter-in-law, Louise, she isn’t in her room. I don’t think she slept there last night if you were to ask me. Yeah. But nobody’s asking you little girl. Hurry up with the lunch, or I’ll wish 5 years a spinster hold on you. I must know well, Louise. I never noticed this interest in your daughter-in-law before.

Craig:  I don’t know.

Todd:  It’s just it’s just it’s just a pile of bizarre dialogue, but the end result of all this is I’m thinking, okay. Are they trying to cast suspicions on the doctor?

Craig:  Yeah. I mean, he’s just creepy. He’s he’s just creepy in general, and I got the sense that it’s not so much that he cared about the well-being of this family at all. It was more that he was just concerned about analyzing them. You know, like, it doesn’t really seem like he cares about them at all. It’s or or or about what happens to them or or whatever, but just, like, he wants to figure it out. And he’ll do that however he needs to.

Todd:  Because he has just sort of a detached aloofness about everything that’s going on, super analytical, and he professes to care. But then in the things he says, he’s really pretty blunt and brutal and just kind of he has a very good bedside manner, this doctor. No. Yeah. That’s why that’s why I was thinking of him as a detective through the whole thing.

Craig:  It it’s like the role that he played. You’re right. It’s true. He he is like that. And you you’re right. So okay. So they all have breakfast together, and the toys pop up in the Todd, and everybody’s, you know, what’s happening? The mom is like, I don’t even know how she got this. She like, the mom looks at all these toys floating up, and she’s like, Kathleen wants a tiara. What?

Clip:  It’s a

Todd:  it’s a message clear as day from beyond. Right. You need my tiara, mom. These 4 dolls.

Craig:  And I feel like Billy has another kind of very brief flashback at that point or something back again just to him and Kathleen at the edge of the water or whatever. The mom goes and gets this tiara, this beautiful diamond tiara, and she’s like, I I wanted to bury it with you, but they wouldn’t let me. So I’m gonna take it to your playhouse, which we’ve never heard of before. But she goes out, and apparently, there’s this playhouse out on the property somewhere. And, it’s got all Kathleen stuff in it, but she goes out there, and then Kathleen is in there. Like Yeah. Like, Kathleen’s Todd, and she’s, like, I I wanted to bury it with you, but they wouldn’t let me. So I’m gonna take it to your playhouse, which we’ve never heard of before. But she goes out, and apparently, there’s this playhouse out on the property somewhere. And, it’s got all Kathleen stuff in it, but she goes out there, and then Kathleen is in there. Yeah. Like, Kathleen’s body propped up perfectly preserved, certainly doesn’t look like it’s been dead and buried for 7 years. It’s just sitting there, and she sees it, and she’s like, and then all of a sudden, the axe murderer shows up, and the axe murderer just starts, like, tearing down the playhouse.

Todd:  The playhouse. It’s like an outdoor playhouse thing. It’s like a shed almost. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. And and so the axe murderer tears it down, and she escapes, and and she runs away and she right. And she passes out on the lawn, and Kane and the female maid, I don’t remember her name, find her first, and they’re like, where’s Richard? Where’s Richard? Where could he be? Where could he be? Like

Todd:  Hint. Hint. Hint. Right. That’s right. Everybody comes out.

Craig:  After a while, the doctor and Richard and Billy all show up, and they take the mom inside. And, you know, the whole last, whatever, half hour of this movie or whatever is just this this mystery. And and and and then that this is where it gets padded. There’s a whole scene, and it’s a long scene with Simon the Poacher who sees, like Simon the poacher

Todd:  with the worst Irish accent you’ve ever heard in

Craig:  your Oh, my god. Worst Irish accent, and I’m pretty sure a fake mustache too.

Clip:  It’s only old bushy tale I’m after, me and Soul Rat. I swear by the shade of fin macool, Master Billy. I’m not poaching illegal gay. No. It is only that no good rabbit stealing fox that brings me here. Please, master Billy. For the memory of your late great father, Todd rest his soul, don’t turn me over to the bulls.

Craig:  But he’s, like, sees movement in the brush. But I I wouldn’t wanna live near Simon the poacher because he just sees leaves moving and starts shooting into them, like

Todd:  That’s right. He poaches it. You can cite this guy. Right.

Craig:  But there’s this scene that it has to go on for 5 minutes where he’s just, like, army crawling in the woods near the Todd, and he keeps seeing things moving, but he can’t find what it is. And then an owl scares him. And then he crawls and then he crawls into some sort of, like, den or something. And then Kathleen’s body is in there, and he’s like, ah. And so he scurries out. And then and then the axe murderer chops off his head. In in hindsight, in in having read about it afterwards, like, it’s so obvious that this was a scene that was just cut in to give them another kill because it’s Yeah. Entirely inconsequential.

Todd:  But it’s pretty again, it’s also a little brutal for the time, I think, and especially for Roger Corman movie, which could tend to be bloody. But, again, you have to put that in its context for the the time. Nothing Roger Corman ever put out was as near even approach bloodiness that we would call today. But, you know, the head the head gets chopped and rolls and Yeah. And I think at this point and I still I gave the movie a lot of credit because I thought, okay. We’ve seen now these 3 kills by an axe murderer, and now it’s about an axe murderer. You know? Like, I mean, the with the first one, the person who killed Louise wanted to kill Louise. You know? Like, they had a thing against Louise and wanted her out of the picture.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  But then by the time this random dude wandering around in the woods gets his head cut off, it’s like, okay. This is a movie about some guy that just who’s who’s gonna kill everybody by the end of this if he’s not stopped. And so my mind was really you know, you’re always looking for motive, and, at this point, I was completely confused. Like, okay. There’s clearly no motive. You know? We’re talking about, again, a psycho situation or something like that. And and so I I actually give the movie a lot of credit whether this movie was this part was inserted or not, that the mom was almost hacked, that this guy was killed, that she was killed, and now I really had no idea what was going on. True. It was very unpredictable. Let’s put it Yes. Yeah.

Craig:  I I totally agree. And it

Todd:  kept my interest for that reason.

Craig:  Yeah. Frankly and I wanna be nice, Manuel, because I know that this is one of your favorite movies. It’s it’s not one of my favorite movies. And when I saw that it was only an hour and 15 minutes, I was like, oh, good. I love short movies. It it it didn’t feel that short. It felt longer than it was. That that’s not to say that I didn’t enjoy it. I did think that there were good things going on. And at this point in the movie, I was I was still interested, you know, who’s it gonna be, how’s it gonna play out, even though I felt like, well, it’s gotta be Richard or Billy or the doctor, I guess. There were times when I thought, maybe it’s the doctor, maybe he’s, you know, trying to throw people off, but, there was kind of a limited pool. You know, I didn’t expect it to be something out of left field. Like, oh, it’s the dad who’s been dead for 3 you know, like Yeah. I I know.

Todd:  The next couple things that happen are are really just kinda dumb. I mean, there’s really no logic behind them, I think. Billy can’t sleep, and he’s up late, and he’s talking with Kane about his nightmares.

Clip:  I’m always a little boy, in my room. It’s late. I hear somebody outside making a kind of a scraping sound. I get out of bed, look out of the window, and there’s a man climbing up the wall coming closer toward my window. I yell for my mother, and she comes into the room just as the man is coming in through the window. I hold on to her legs, crying. I’m so small I can only come up to her waist. The man is in the shadows. You can almost recognize him, but not really. He says that he’s insane And that someone else in the room is insane also. And that he’s going to nod his head. And when he does, that other insane person will nod their head.

Todd:  And so then his mom picks him up and takes him out and throws him in the pond.

Craig:  And then, like, as an afterthought

Clip:  What’s wrong? Nothing. You just made me realize the man in my dream who climbs up my wall is Richard. I’m sorry. I just never thought of it before.

Todd:  Oh, man. So bad. So bad. And then for reasons I can’t I still don’t understand, Arthur decides that the pond needs, I’m sorry.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s his name. The

Todd:  decides that the pond needs to be drained.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Arthur’s the groundskeeper. Right. And so he tells Arthur to drain it, and he’s like, I don’t know how. And he’s like, well, here’s some keys, and this is how you do it. So he so he drains the pot.

Todd:  Whatever. Right? And I’m not sure what he was expecting to find, but it seemed like he found exactly what he expected to find because what he unearthed is what scared the what scared Louise when she was under here, which is a almost like a tombstone, and it says forgive me, Kathleen. And at this point, if you haven’t figured out who the killer is, you’re really dense.

Clip:  Yeah. Right.

Todd:  There’s only one person who could

Craig:  be wracked with guilt over Kathleen. Exactly. But they still they’re still trying really, really hard to make you think that it’s Richard even though it pretty it pretty obviously isn’t. This was this was the point where I was confused because I thought, surely, when they drained the pond, they would find John’s body. Yes. Exactly. But they don’t.

Todd:  Case, but whatever else.

Craig:  Right. Right. So I I guess you must be right that wherever she dumps John was not at the place. I I thought for sure that she had dumped him in the pond, but apparently apparently not.

Todd:  And not just John’s body, but Louise’s body. Hello?

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  And Yeah. Right. Poacher’s head. I mean, they Right.

Craig:  Where are all these Todd coping? And I’m like,

Todd:  they I did at this point, nobody really gives

Craig:  a rat’s ass to Louise’s Todd, by the way. Like Not really.

Todd:  Written her off as stealing the silverware and skipping town.

Craig:  Right. So this happens and, you know, they find this tombstone and the doctor is like, your family are all artisans. Right? And he’s looking at Richard, and Richard’s like, you know that I work in metal. And the doctor is like, yeah. But that shrine looks like it’s 6 or 7 years old, and you were still working in stone at that time. The doctor knows so

Todd:  much about this family.

Craig:  Yeah. And so then Richard goes skulking around through some catacombs. Not bad either. Which I guess are in the castle. And, Kain is following him, and they end up in this room that has all of these beautiful, like, busts and, stone sculptures. And it’s I guess he tells her when she reveals herself because a rat scares her or something. He’s like, this is my dad’s studio. I was just I was trying to figure out who made that shrine, and she’s like, oh my god. I’m so sorry I ever doubted you. I’ll never doubt you again. Let’s get married right now.

Todd:  But but then as the camera backs out or away from the 2 of them embracing, Kathleen’s body again is in the foreground. What?

Craig:  What does this mean? I know. I didn’t get you there. Okay. And so then, the doctor takes Billy out for a drink. And and this part oh my god. Maybe it’s just maybe my mind goes to strange places, but this it seemed oddly seductive to me. Like, he was take like, he was taking out this young boy and and young boy, he’s not that young. He’s a man, but significantly younger than the doctor. And he takes him to this bar, and they’re under the guise of they’re looking for Louise.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Craig:  But that clearly isn’t, the reason. And he he gives, the Billy a drink, and Billy is like, no. I don’t drink. He’s like, come on. It’s Ireland. And he’s

Todd:  that’s right. And as a doctor, of course. He’s like, it’s really the only medicine you could take around here. Only if it’ll get you through this is alcohol.

Craig:  He’s plying he’s plying this young guy with liquor, which is weird. Okay. And then that’s where the seductive part ends, but I thought it was kinda weird. Yeah. And and then and then he’s like, you’re the only one who saw Kathleen drown. And Billy’s like, no. I didn’t. And the doctor’s like, yes. You did. And Billy says, no, I didn’t. And the doctor says, yes, you did because you told me.

Clip:  Richard, Tell me what happened. What happened to Louise?

Craig:  And supposedly, when Billy was a kid and having all these nightmares, in his delirious state, he confessed this. Okay. Well, if that’s the case, why are you just bringing it up now? Yeah. Exactly. Doesn’t make any sense. Listen to the words of the song because they’re important. But then it cuts immediately. I thought it was gonna be a flashback. Flashback

Clip:  to the wedding where Kathleen died. I did too. But then they had to scratch that out because it wasn’t because it was the wedding

Craig:  reception for Richard and Kane, which apparently they threw a wedding together, right, reception for Richard and Kane, which apparently they threw a wedding together right quick.

Todd:  Jumps forward in time, like, I don’t know, months later. Who knows? It’s it’s just kind of

Craig:  yeah. I thought it was, like, the next day. I thought that was just like, while Billy and the doctor were at the bar, they just threw a wedding together.

Todd:  It plays, like, the next day for sure.

Craig:  And so then the doctor has this super creepy, creepy ass conversation with Kane.

Clip:  You know, the one thing of the world that really chills my bones to the matter is when a pretty girl on a wedding dress looks at me and finds me a repulsive. Oh, don’t be silly, doctor. Oh, I’m often silly. One of my major advisers. Another one is a desire on my part to help others. However, I answered that myself. Then you can help me by telling me where Richard is. I’m not sure where Richard is or indeed, what he is.

Craig:  You are such a creeper. And and she’s, like, and she’s, like, yeah. I gotta go.

Todd:  It’s it’s another one of these really funny moments where, okay, apparently, time has passed, and he’s now trying to convince her that the family is bad news.

Craig:  Right. Right. Really? No.

Todd:  Time is just really poor on all this.

Craig:  So Kane and Richard run off for a romp in the hay, literally? Literally.

Todd:  Some new location that we didn’t know about before.

Craig:  Yeah. The doctor is walking around and, like, he’s just on the estate, and he sits down and he starts thinking about the song that Billy was singing. And he’s like, wait a second. On a hook? And so he goes so he goes, I guess, to the meat locker.

Todd:  Yeah. Obviously, this made no sense to me whatsoever. This is the biggest leap in logic. And there is the body. And, again, I wasn’t even sure who it was. At first, I thought it was Kane. I thought Kane had been murdered, and it’s Louise’s Todd, all bloody and gross hanging up on a hook.

Craig:  Next to, like, the slab of beef or whatever Yeah. In this shed on the property.

Todd:  And there’s this body again of Kathleen there at her feet. And so he picks it up and walks out with it. And at this moment, I’m thinking, okay. So the doctor is the killer?

Craig:  I was there too.

Todd:  This is this MO. I mean, at this point, you realize this body has been at almost every murder except in the foreground of the catacomb scene where

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Who knows why still, who knows why it was there and why an axe murder didn’t didn’t leap in after it either. But, anyway yeah. And then he he brings it outside to the grounds Todd the it’s by this fountain or something in the garden. And then everybody in the wedding party comes out and sees it and screams. And then out leaps Billy with an ax and tries to murder Craig, who’s the one who screamed first at the body. And and, basically, at the end of this, the doctor has to explain it all to us, you know, in three lines of dialogue just before the credits go.

Clip:  Meadowlacks doll, something to protect to relieve his guilt.

Todd:  And so it was really just the fact that each of these people happened to stumble upon this wax figure as Billy was moving it about the the castle grounds that caused them to get axed. Right. And the doctor figured this all out somehow, even though this would have been the first time that he had seen the wax figure or anybody knew anything about the wax figure, his plan was then to lure him out by taking

Clip:  it

Todd:  out into the garden. So it’s, yeah, it’s pretty convoluted.

Craig:  Yeah. So right. So we get the 32nd flashback where we see that in their rough housing, Billy had somehow unintentionally, I guess, knocked Kathleen into the water, but then she died and that’s why she was so he was so guilty or whatever. And then he’s like, this Kathleen is just a wax figure, and he takes the ax and smashes her face. The end. And, like, literally, the end, roll the credits after the smashed face doll.

Todd:  It’s just so we could have credits rolling over a still image of of what looks like a woman with an accent her face. Yeah.

Craig:  Right.

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  I don’t I don’t know. Like, I don’t think this movie’s bad.

Todd:  No. Certainly.

Craig:  I I I think it’s I think it’s perfectly fine. You know? Like, there you know, Todd, and anybody who’s listened to us for any period of time knows that I’m just really not much into these old movies. I’m just not that much into it. It’s not my thing.

Clip:  Mhmm.

Craig:  But it’s Hitchcockian. It’s reminiscent of Psycho, and Francis Ford Coppola, you know, went on to be one of the most celebrated directors of our time. And so, you know, this is this is his first real effort. Like you said, he had done some boobie flicks before this, but this was kinda his first real film, and he was doing it under some pretty tight restrictions as far as time and budget and he didn’t even really have any control over casting or location or anything like that. And so considering all of those things, it’s a pretty darn good movie.

Todd:  You know, it really is. And in fact and you know I love these kinds of movies, actually.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah.

Todd:  And I’ve seen a lot of Corman’s output, and this is right in his wheelhouse. Make it color instead of black and white.

Craig:  Mhmm.

Todd:  Right? Throw Vincent Price in there, pat it out like hell with people wandering through the empty castle a lot more, and a few more jump scares, and a little bit more of a suspicion about a ghost or something supernatural happening. And this is just like any one of a half a dozen of his other movies that just got a little more money thrown at them and had a little more time involved. Sure. Strip that all away from those movies, and you end up with this movie, which is, again, it’s a little potboiler. It’s got a little silliness, but you can really chalk it all up to the fact that they shot the freaking thing in 9 days with $40,000.

Craig:  And considering that some really strong performances, I mean, the actors here are are are pretty darn good, I have to say. There were some scenes, especially, you know, some of these dialogue scenes where it was kinda close-up on a couple of characters having back and forth, where I thought their performances were really strong, surprisingly strong for the the type of movie that this is.

Todd:  Well, there’s a remake. I don’t know if it’s out. Out. Think it’s out. Out now.

Craig:  You can rent it for 4.99 on YouTube.

Todd:  I’m kinda curious to see it, to be honest, because I think this is this is a movie. Again, at its core, it’s not a bad idea. Put some time and some money and some effort into it and make a better script, and, it would be really interesting, I think.

Craig:  I don’t know. I watched the trailer. It doesn’t look very good. But I don’t know. Could it could be a surprise. I I’m not gonna I’m not I’ll wait until it’s free on YouTube, And and then I’ll let you know.

Todd:  Well, thank you, Manuel, for suggesting this. We certainly felt it was worth worthy of our time and worthy of discussion.

Craig:  Yeah. And thank you for being a loyal listener. We appreciate that.

Todd:  And if you enjoyed this podcast, you could please share it with a friend. We have lots of other back episodes you can check out. We’re on Google Play. We’re on iTunes. We’re on Stitcher. Anywhere you can find podcasts, we’re we’re there. And also, we have a Facebook page and a web page. If you like what you heard here, drop us a note. Let us know. Let us know what you thought of this film. Give us some suggestions for other films to see. Also, we’re starting to put up some written reviews to supplement the podcast that we do, written by yours truly right now.

Craig:  Please check

Todd:  those out. Those come out every Thursday on our website, and you can see those posted on our Facebook page as well. Until next time. I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I’m Craig

Todd:  with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

This Netflix Original film just came out and surprised both of us by combining a rollicking good time with some genuine pathos. First, head over to Netflix to watch this right away. Then, drop back here to listen to our thoughts and see if you take our side over this somewhat divisive film directed by McG.

Episode 103, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Craig:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Craig.

Todd:  And I’m Todd.

Craig:  And I chose the movie this week, and the movie that we’re doing this week is 2,017’s The Babysitter, which was originally shot in 2015 and slated for a theatrical debut. But, Netflix got the distribution rights and it ended up not being released until October of this year. And this is something that just popped up on Netflix. I hadn’t really heard anything about it, but it seemed promising. And since it was, October, my partner was willing to watch scary movies with me. So we put this on one night just because we didn’t have anything else to watch, and I was very pleasantly surprised. Had you heard anything about this movie, Todd?

Todd:  No. I hadn’t. You know, here in China, I don’t pop on to Netflix too often. I have to use a VPN to be able to even access it. And even then, sometimes, it’s a little it’s a little tricky because Netflix, tries to block VPNs for that very reason. But, yeah, I was able to watch it. And, yeah, I had never heard of it before either. What a cool movie. I’m just gonna say that right now.

Craig:  Todd. I’m glad. Listeners, Todd usually, like if obviously because we’re on opposite sides of the world we can’t watch them together, Todd often texts me and is like, oh, I’m so excited to talk about this, and you didn’t text me last night, so I was worried. And so I said to Alan, if he doesn’t like this movie, I don’t think we can be friends anymore.

Todd:  Did Alan

Craig:  like it? Yes. Yes. Oh, good. We both really liked this movie. As soon as it was over, he said, man, that was fun. And, that’s how I felt about it too. This is just a really fun movie. It was directed by Mick Gee and, people have, especially critics, have really mixed feelings about Mick G’s movies. He’s done lots of, music videos and the movies that he’s done that I am most familiar with are the Charlie’s Angels movies, The ones with Cameron Diaz and Drew Barry Drew Barrymore and Lucy Liu. The first one of those movies, I really liked. Not because it was like some amazing plot or story or story, or whatever, but just because it was a lot of fun, you know, a lot of action, a lot of comedy. And then the second movie, I liked quite a bit too, just because it was the same exactly as the first movie.

Todd:  Basically, why screw with the good thing.

Craig:  Right? Right. But they were both fun. And this movie isn’t like those movies, you know, as far as plot is concerned, but it is like those movies in that it’s pretty fast paced and it’s stylistic. Yeah. And, a lot of fun and really funny. And I know that not every horror fan is a huge fan of horror comedies, and and that’s cool. I get that. But I am. And I think that comedy and horror, they go right hand in hand when it’s done well. And I think that this movie does that really well. Would you agree?

Todd:  Oh, for sure. It it really does. You have to though you have to like the smarmy kind of comedy. The sort of almost modern hip where people talk with clever witty one liners in the face of crazy situations like no other human would ever talk, you know.

Craig:  They’re still

Todd:  being silly and they’re still being funny and they’re still being witty, you know, that they’re just those movies where everybody in the in the movie is a comedian and nobody thinks twice about it, and that’s this style of movie. And if you’re into that kind of comedy, if that kind of comedy doesn’t annoy you, then you’d really like this for sure.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. And and I could see, you know, after I watched this, I was super stoked about it. And the very next day, I read a review of it online that was really critical and talked about how it was going way too far out of its way to be gimmicky and going way too far out of its way to be hip. And I suppose I can see that, but it just worked for me. And I think that part of the reason that it worked for me is because there are some really, really strong performances, in this movie. I have so many notes, like And, you know, it’s not really scary. Like, I was never scared in the movie, but it does have a nice, dark horror premise. But I really think that, what really sells this movie for me are the performances, particularly by the main character who is a young kid. He’s supposed to be 12, and he seems young. I don’t know if he really seems 12. I would guess probably more around 14, but he’s played by a kid named Judah Lewis who doesn’t have very many credits to his name, but I expect a lot from this kid because he’s just really good in this movie. He’s cute, he’s charming, he’s endearing. He’s supposed to be kind of this nerdy, worrywart. He’s a good looking young kid. You wouldn’t expect him to kind of be the nerd role. But he pulls it off really well.

Todd:  He does.

Craig:  And so then there’s him and then his babysitter. The movie is the babysitter. The babysitter’s name is B. And, she is played by Samara Weaving, who I don’t think I’ve ever seen her in anything before. I know that she was in the TV series Ash Versus the Evil Dead, which I want to see, but I don’t get the network that it runs on. The premise is he’s this, you know, kind of dorky insecure kid. The movie opens with him getting his flu shot at school and he’s scared of the needle and then the male school nurse has to kinda, you know, talk him into getting this shot. And then the very next scene is of him staring off into space out on the school yard and getting hit in the head with a basketball, and some kid calls him a pussy. And that’s just kind of establishing his character. The whole first half hour is kind of establishing who these characters are. And he is established as this young, insecure, kinda nerdy kid. But then he’s got this babysitter who is just the coolest freaking babysitter ever. Yeah.

Todd:  Like no other babysitter would ever be. Right. That

Craig:  was the babysitter that our 12 year old selves dreamed of, you know, like, that would never exist, but that we totally wished did. She’s hot. Like, she’s just smoking hot. She’s just fun and funny. And the reason that I say that their performances are so strong is because they established this relationship in the beginning where she really treats him like a friend, I guess. And it doesn’t come across as condescending. It doesn’t come across that she’s talking down to him. And it doesn’t come across that, like, she’s just doing this for the money. Like, she genuinely seems to care about this kid. And when they talk, it’s just really, really sweet. Like, you really feel this camaraderie between them. And I think that that’s really important to establish in the beginning for the purposes of the rest of the movie. And it gives it a, a sweetness that you just don’t see very often. And it’s very genuine, and I just I was so into it from the very beginning.

Todd:  Yeah. Yeah. She you’re introduced to her by she comes in and breaks up a bully fight. It’s so classic eighties. There is such a shade of of the eighties kind of movies in this. Judah, especially, the character, Cole is his name. He’s man, he looks just like he was plucked out of The Goonies. Yeah. And he plays really sincere just like a 12 year old kid and this woman comes in and when he is beset by 3 bullies on bikes. It is that classic walking down the street home from school and here come 3 bullies on a bike to surround him. And I have to say that the only criticism I have for this movie is she is so cool as a babysitter. She is so friendly with this kid and their relationship. He’s supposed to be 14, I believe.

Craig:  12. I think 12. I thought 14 at first, but he mentions at some point towards the end, he says I’m only 12, so I’m just supposed to be a kid.

Todd:  Okay. He’s supposed to be 12, but it’s just a little too perfect and a little too platonic to be believable. Now, you you know, movies are about suspending disbelief. So after a little while, you go with it. But at first, you’re thinking every 12 year old or 13 or 14 year old kid’s dream. It’s my it’s my, you know, 39 year old dream to have a baby. This woman, to be honest. And it’s cool, like, when she comes over, like, they’re talking and she’s really nerdy, like, he is. This seems like they really connect and not just that she’s playing with it, you know, like, I’m not like she’s, like, pretending to like the things he likes, but she really does. They have Right. Really interesting scene when when she’s over. And I know I’m skipping ahead a little bit here, but when she’s over at the house and the parents have gone.

Clip:  So there’s an epic villain. Right? Right? Okay. So you have to fill a starship full of the best people or aliens or robots to take them down. How many seats have I got? 5. 5? 6. If you need, like, a duobie, you can’t have a predator and the xenomorph together because they’d fight and the mission would be futile. No. No. Okay. I get it. Alright. 1, Kirk. 2, Picard. 3, Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum from Independence Day. 5, Ripley. And 6, are you ready for this ship? A xenomorph egg. No way. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. Here’s the plan. Kirk and Picard team up to captain. Then when they get close, they send in Will and Goldblum to get inside the lair because they have experience with that ship. Fair. Now this whole time, Ripley’s been bitching about the xenomorph egg and shit because that’s her move. But she knows she gotta do this because it’s the only way to save the world. A universe. Right. Exactly. So Will and Goldblum get her inside the lair. Ripley personally drops off the egg. The facehugger attacks the big bad. Ripley makes it back to Will and Gollum. The big bad attacks them. They narrowly escape. Kirk and Picard supply cover as the spacecraft returns home, then they peek out of there. Meanwhile, big bad starts feeling like

Craig:  shit. Man. He’s out.

Todd:  She knows all of the cool, nerdy movies and TV shows and things like that that that they totally click on that level. Even though one look at this girl tells you she shouldn’t.

Craig:  Right. But that’s what makes her so cool. And again Yeah. You know, I I hate to repeat myself but that’s what makes her the coolest. Like this hot, hot, I can’t say enough how hot she is. This girl is so hot.

Todd:  She really is.

Craig:  It’s like, she never, you would never expect her to be into the things that this kid is into and he would never expect her to be either. But she is or somehow, as it turns out, she is manipulative But she’s so good at it that you wouldn’t ever suspect. It’s established how he’s kinda this geek at school and he gets picked on by these bullies.

Clip:  They’re the ones that egg your house? You gotta punch him in the dick. And if they’re chasing you, wait until they’ve almost got you, and then drop like a bag of rocks. And then when they trip over you and they’re on the ground, kick them in the dick.

Craig:  Which which is so funny, but, like, such a it’s almost like a big sister kind of thing, but it’s better that it’s not your sister because she’s also hot and so like Yeah.

Todd:  It’d be problematic.

Craig:  We’re also introduced to another character named Melanie who is a girl about his age. They’re standing outside the school waiting to be picked up and her dad picks her up in this totally douchey, like, muscle car, which I only mention because it comes up later, but like he goes home and his mom is crawling around in the basement with spiders. I’m intentionally including all of these details because you can tell, you can even tell in the movie that these details are gonna be important later. It’s

Todd:  a very economical writing. It doesn’t waste, a scene, really.

Craig:  Right. And and norm in some movies, that bothers me. You know, like, when something’s so obviously highlighted, like, oh, I wonder if that’s gonna be important later. But in this movie, the payoffs were were good enough that it it Todd didn’t bother me. Me. But he even says to his mom, mom, am I a pussy? And she’s kinda like, well, And and she said something motherly like, you know, you’re just at an age where everything’s really scary now and things won’t be scary so long. So basically, yeah, but don’t worry, you’ll grow out of it. Both of his parents are kind of established as nice people, but, you know, like his dad takes him on a driving lesson and, the kid’s too scared to drive so he won’t drive. So the dad’s like, it’s okay, buddy. You know, maybe next week. And he puts him in the car or in the passenger seat, and he’s like, now let’s do some donuts. And, like, the kid’s just sitting there, like, about Todd self trying to pretend like, trying to pretend like he’s not scared.

Todd:  In many ways, it is a movie for today. It’s super modern and again that might be something that turns people off is the writing and and I could see where critics might say it’s almost a little too clever, it’s almost a little too hip. In that the way that people talk to each other in this movie with a few exceptions where it goes a little overboard like the the adults cuss to the kids quite a bit and I don’t know, maybe in some neighborhoods, but I I still don’t see that adults speaking so loosely to kids as they do in this film. But, you know, these these aspects I thought were kinda plucked. Like, somebody mentions Instagram followers later. And here that, you know, this is kind of a thing now where a lot of American kids don’t care about getting their licenses anymore.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  And so, you know, there’s that aspect of it and and, the relationship of the mom with the kid.

Clip:  Mom, I know pussy also means vagina. I’m not retarded. Cole Johnson, do not say retarded. But I can say pussy or anything. Don’t say it. Okay? Go get me a lemonade. My Todd. He said pussy.

Todd:  So I liked the movie for that. I have to admit I did think it went a little overboard. It was just a little too self conscious at times, but I was willing to roll with it because it was funny. You know, it was really genuinely funny.

Craig:  Yeah. I that it’s funny because you said, like, you know, it feels very eighties. And in many ways, it really does. I mean, even when, so that the whole first half hour is just setting up that they have this great relationship. And then that culminates in the parents going away. Like the parents, I guess it’s just suggested that maybe they have been having some problems. So they’ve been going once a week to hotel therapy, which everybody assumes just means that they’re going off once a week to have sex. When they finally do leave, then there’s just this, don’t even wanna call it a montage because it doesn’t feel much like a montage, but it’s just a quick succession of scenes where we see what this

Todd:  set to music

Craig:  Which is the montage, basically.

Todd:  I mean, you know, I don’t wanna cut off a quick succession of scenes set to music, a montage, really. Let’s call it

Clip:  a montage.

Craig:  Well, because, like, there’s there’s dialogue and they’re talking and stuff. Alright. Fine. That’s a montage. But anyway, it’s a montage of, you know, all this stuff that they do together when his parents are gone and, like, they do choreographed dances together, and they swim together. And, like, you know, he watches her in slow motion Todd down to her bathing suit and and they cook pizza together. Like, they just do all every fun thing you can imagine doing in a couple of hours.

Todd:  It’s compressed into a couple hours. Yeah. Again, you They they You just gotta roll with it, really.

Craig:  Yeah. They they they watch a movie outside on a, like, a a sheet projection screen and, like, they stand in front of the projector and it’s like this old, either like a western or a ninja movie or something and, like, they’re mouthing the lines and acting it out in front of the screen. And it’s just so cute and so fun. But you said, you know, it’s got a very it’s set in modern time and there are many things to indicate to us that it is set in modern time. But it has such an eighties aesthetic that you were talking about that intergalactic dream team that they talk about, And he’s so impressed with the things she says. It doesn’t get any more eighties than that. But all of that leads up to his friend Melanie, this cute girl who just lives across the street, she’s like, I bet your babysitter is totally having sex with somebody after you go to sleep. And he’s like, what? No. And she’s like, seriously, you should wait up and see what happens after you go to sleep. So they hatch this plan. And that is what propels us into the hour after the first half hour. It’s only an hour and 25 minutes.

Todd:  Really short.

Craig:  And so it’s really short and so much happens Mhmm. That it’s amazing to me that it’s it’s that short. But, that’s that’s then the setup. He’s gonna wait up, Todd see what happens after the kid goes to sleep.

Todd:  And and, you know, I think, actually, that’s a great thing. Something’s gotta be said about the style of this film, and I know we’ll talk about it more later. But, like, McG, you can tell he comes from a music video background. And all the Charlie’s Angels movies have that, you know, aesthetic where he’ll do interesting things with camera angles and movements and he’ll do slow motion mixed with normal motion even in the same scene. All these little tricks and and things that keep it cool and clever and and fun to watch and not very pedestrian and the writing is that way Todd. It’s just again, like I said, it’s very economical and even though the movie feels short there’s so much that happens and it moves that you never wants are you’re not you don’t end it unsatisfied. And and it’s really nice I think that it’s not padded with a lot of extra garbage, just to run time or to give us more background than we need on any of these characters or anything like that. It’s just not a movie that should be concerned with it, and so it’s not. And that requires real discipline and I really liked the movie for that.

Craig:  Yeah. Absolutely. And and so at some point, b, the babysitter says, oh, it’s getting really late, you know, and he’s like, but I’m not tired. So, well, I am. And so she says, well, if I give you a shot, will you go to bed? And he’s like, okay. Like, again, when I was 12, I wasn’t particularly interested in drinking, but just to have an older hot girl offer you some alcohol, like, sure. And she goes and she pours him a shot. She brings it back. I I think just because he’s hesitant about doing it, he says, Well, aren’t you going to take one with me? And she says, Okay. And so, she goes in there and you can kind of see him arguing with himself in his mind, like, what am I gonna do? And eventually, he dumps it in the flower pot and pretend that he, took it.

Todd:  That was a good touch too. Right? It wasn’t like a sitcom where she leaves the room, and immediately he had this plan that he’s gonna toss it in the plant. Mhmm. You could see this inner monologue going on where he’s kind of like, okay. Okay. Let love let’s just do it and and tosses it the plant. And and it was it their moments like that in this movie with his performance and I guess with the direction Todd that are just make it really believable, that just really help you to relate to this kid. It’s just genius, acting, honestly. I I thought the kids acting was one of the best child actor performances I’ve ever seen. Absolutely. Hands down.

Craig: He was he was fantastic, and I’ve watched this movie twice now. It was even better the second time like I because I was watching more closely. And and that’s the thing. Really, ultimately what this is, is a coming of age story and it’s about this kid who is so scared of everything and through the course of the events of the movie, he grows up and and he learns not to be afraid, and and to, you know, to to face his fears. But here early on, he’s still he’s he’s just scared of everything. And, so he’s he’s too scared to do it, and so he dumps it out. And so she comes back, and she takes a shot, and she sends him up to bed and he pretends to be asleep, but really he’s FaceTiming and texting with Melanie across the street. Eventually at about 11: 30 or something, he hears the doorbell ring, and he’s like, they’re here.

Craig:  And the kid says, there’s a bunch of them. And Melanie’s like, oh, my gosh. I bet they’re gonna have an orgy. And the kid you see on his face, he’s like, orgy? And so he Googles it real quick. And then of course, they blur it all out. Like we can see what’s on his screen, but they blur it all out. But you can just hear, like, all the moaning and stuff. Like, the

Todd:  Google image search or whatever pulled us a whole bunch of pictures for Orgy.

Craig:  G. And so Melanie tells them she should go out, that he should go out and, see what they’re doing. So he goes out there and there’s this group sitting around in a circle, and at first I thought they were playing spin the bottle, but really, they’re not. They’re playing truth or dare with a bottle. But the bottle spins and it stops on each character. And this is something that happens throughout the movie. This graphic text will pop up on screen at various moments. And again, this was something that the one review I read of it was really critical about, like, oh, it’s too hip. I thought it was funny. Like, I I really liked it. But, as the bottle spins, it stops on each of the characters. And it’s all these super stereotypically super, super hot people. The first one is Max, who’s like the jock late ladies, lady listeners, and friends of mine, you are going to enjoy watching, this guy pritch around the screen for the rest of this movie. Oh my god. Alright. I’ll try not to go on about it too much. So hot. I I wrote all these actors’ names down. The guy who plays Max is, Robbie Amell. And I didn’t he’s been in tons of stuff. Like, he’s been acting since he was, like, 6 or something. He’s been in tons of stuff. The only thing that I recognized him from was he in the, new iteration of the X Files. He’s he’s one of the agents, and I remembered him from that. And then you’ve got Allison who is played by Bella Thorne, who’s kind of this up and coming starlet.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  She’s on the TV series Scream on MTV, or she was. I think she got killed off. And then there’s John, who’s been in stuff, but I didn’t really recognize him for much. He’s played by Andrew Bachelor. And there’s Sonya who is played by Hana Mei Lee who a lot of people like myself will probably recognize from the Pitch Perfect movies. She’s this, beautiful Asian girl and she’s hilarious in the, Pitch Perfect movies. So they’re the hot group and then there’s also one other guy with them, Samuel, who is this really super nerdy guy, even way nerdier than Cole, who Cole had seen be kinda getting cozy with a little bit earlier in the movie. And so they’re sitting there and they’re playing truth or dare. It eventually gets to be and Max dares her to kiss everyone in the group. And this scene was just kind of gratuitous, but Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s the performance or the directing or the writing. It just it’s a scene that shouldn’t work. Like, it should be too hokey to work. But, I don’t know. Maybe it was 12 year old me, like Cole, you know, staring through the banisters from the top who just worked for me as well as it worked for him, I guess. What do you think?

Todd:  I don’t know. You know, I have to say it was super gratuitous, and it was a little silly. And I kinda It’s a

Craig:  lot silly. It’s a lot silly, but I can embrace the silliness.

Todd:  So so all these people are are stereotypes. Right? Max is the white chiseled jock. Allison is the ditzy cheerleader who cares about her looks. John is the mouthy black guy who’s clever with you know, and quippy. And so is the mysterious Asian, and Samuel is the total nerd. Right? And so, you know, she goes to Max and she kisses him. She goes to Allison, and they have this long kiss. Lots of them.

Craig:  Lots of up on the top of the…

Todd:  It’s super gratuitous. And then John

Craig:  Pretty hot, though. Right? Oh, it’s hot.

Todd:  That’s for sure. It kinda belongs in a different movie. But

Craig:  I was proud of those actresses. Like, yeah. Go for it and do it.

Todd:  They really did. And then John’s, like, over there gearing up again, just like the mouthy black guy. Oh, man. I gotta get ready for this. And he’s, like, got this, like, foot long Chap stick that he, you know, is flying to his lips and stuff. And then she

Craig:  goes over and she licks him. She licks his face.

Todd:  Yeah. Licks his face. And then, you know, she goes over to Sonia, and they have this like I said, it’s like this almost like ritualistic mysterious, exchange. You know? Mhmm. She kisses her forehead. She kisses her forehead. They look at it. It’s it’s it’s so goofy, honestly. But, yeah, you’re right. If you were a 12 year old looking through the banister at this, you’d be pretty, you’d be pretty impressed. I didn’t mind it. I didn’t mind it. Just gonna say.

Craig:  At at 12 years old, by the end of that, I probably would have been done and ready to go to bed.

Clip:  Oh,

Todd:  man. And then she gets to Samuel, and this is where I think everything about this scene and maybe this maybe the gratuitousness of it was good in the respect that it really makes you uncomfortable at this point. Mhmm. This scene almost feels like it belongs in an eighties movie because it would be the kind of scene that we would look at now and we’d be really critical of. It’s way too uncomfortable for our modern times. You know, we it’s like we we should we’re kinda beyond this, or we think we’re beyond this. And she gets to this guy, and it starts to get really uncomfortable because he really is nervous, and he’s scared about it. And on the one hand, you’re thinking, oh, this is the nerd. He’s about to get the first kiss of his life. But then he he stands up, and he backs away, and he’s like, I’m really uncomfortable. You know? I I’ve just met you. And it’s like, yeah. This is really kinda messed up. She’s

Craig:  Well, and everybody’s, like, rooting him on, like, come on, buddy. You can do this. You can do this. And this actor who whoever he is, like, he’s just really soft spoken and, like, you feel bad for this kid. Like, he seems really sweet and and and and and on one hand, you feel uncomfortable for him because he’s in this situation. On the other hand, I’m kind of rooting for him like, do it buddy. Yeah. She’s

Todd:  tells him to close his eyes, and he’s like, but if if I close my eyes, they’re still there. And she’s like, do you trust me? And he says, yes. So he closes his eyes, and suddenly she raises her arms and drives 2 daggers straight into his head. And that was completely shocking. Like, no matter where you think this movie is going, you did not expect this scene, and it really freaking bothered me. It really bothered me. You get over it because you realize I mean, you knew you were in a comedy, and you’re supposed

Craig:  to

Todd:  laugh these things off, but that’s really dark.

Craig:  It was. I mean, she did kiss him first. I mean, I I I guess at least there’s that. She gave him kind of a sweet kiss first, but then, you know, it’s so sudden when she stabs him in the head. And, like, he’s not immediately dead, which I guess I assume. I don’t know what would happen if you got stabbed with 2 big daggers directly in your head. But she she he starts screaming and she says

Clip:  You’re helping fulfill a great purpose,

Craig:  gonna be more bits.

Todd:  Did he just say porpoise?

Craig:  No. I think he did.

Clip:  I didn’t even get a chance to understand.

Craig:  It it’s kinda sad. And that’s what I like about this movie is that it’s surprisingly emotional. And when we get to the end, I’m gonna go on and on about that, but I can appreciate a movie like this for being funny, for being gory, and it is. I mean, she, you know, she stabs him in the head. He’s immediately, you know, covered in blood. Blood is spurting out all over the place. It’s a it’s gory and super violent at times. Yeah. But I expect that in this type of horror comedy, And I expect the kind of quippy comedy. What I don’t expect is to be kind of moved on a more emotional level.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And when that happens, it strikes me, and that does happen here. You know, I I legitimately felt sad for this kid. Like, this was kind of a sad moment.

Todd:  Oh, and I was I was horrified at at at the 12 year old watching this. You know? Mhmm. His totally awesome babysitter who he’s got this fantastic relationship, just did this horrible thing. I mean, my heart crushed in, like, you know, 2 or 3 different directions.

Craig:  I tell

Todd:  you, like, just before this, I I mean, quite literally up to this scene, my wife was in the room, but she’s doing something else. And I was watching this on my on my laptop, and I I turned to her, and I said, this movie is really good. And, you know, depending on how all this turns out, maybe you and I should sit down and watch this. Then about a minute later, I said, nope. That ain’t happening. Man. She she she doesn’t like gore, though.

Craig:  I know. Yeah. No. And so she right. So she especially wouldn’t like this part because they start and from this part on, they keep referring to him as sacrifice Samuel, which is hilarious and so mean. But they, they start collecting his blood in goblets, and at one point, like, John, the black guy is, like, tapping it like it’s not working like like it’s a keg or something, and and then blood sprays all over his, face and he’s, like, freaking out. And Bea is calm all along, and she’s like, things can get messy when you make a deal with the devil. And that’s what it turns out that they’re doing. Like this group of young, hot, stereotypical people apparently are some kind of cult led by Bee, and, they’re they’re doing a human sacrifice. But this is where, you know, like you said, it’s so quippy and and so not really anything anybody would ever say. Allison, who’s the cheerleader one, I mean, she’s in her cheerleader outfit. She says

Clip:  Look at this shit. That would go viral so hard. I mean, nobody’s done human sacrifice. People have always done human sacrifice. Yeah. But, like, not in America with hot people.

Craig:  And it’s, it’s, I, you know, it is very, you know, quote unquote hip, but at the same time, I, I feel like it’s kind of genuinely reflective of American culture right now. Like

Todd:  it’s a parody. It really is.

Craig:  That’s what people are concerned about. People are concerned about, and people, I’m I’m vastly generalizing, but people who are concerned about going viral and getting famous, they don’t care how it affects other people, or even humiliating or degrading themselves. That’s beside the point. You know, the point is to get shares and likes and Yeah. I don’t think that this movie is going out of its way to make any kind of social commentary,

Todd:  but It does.

Craig:  If you read anything into it, you know, it’s it’s there.

Todd:  Well, yeah. I mean, remember was it last year or a couple years ago, the guy who got shot by his girlfriend and died because they were trying to make viral videos, and he thought that a book would stop a bullet.

Craig:  Right. Mhmm.

Todd:  Yeah. I mean, this stuff really does happen. So for her to comment on it, it’s it’s it’s funny because it’s true. It’s it’s definitely a a satire in that way. You can kind of see the whole movie as as a satire at several levels, you know, like, on American culture, especially. You can look at the wittiness and the almost too clever for its own good stuff and read into that things like I mean, what she’s going for in this ritual that she does is just whatever you want, basically. It’s just a sort of desire to be happy, and at what cost Todd doesn’t matter. And the fact that these people, the thing that the thing that kind of strikes you as a little unreal about this movie is the fact that it seems like for most of the people at this, except for her, this is their first time. Like, they’re all newbies at this. Did you get that impression?

Craig:  I I instructing them. Yeah. You need to do this.

Todd:  You gotta collect the blood. Maybe Sonia, because she’s so mysterious, has done it before, and she’s so calm. You know? They didn’t know what to do. They were just being instructed by her. So, like, the the fact that this doesn’t bother any of them in the slightest, you know, strikes you as a little unreal unless you see it again as as satire.

Craig:  Yeah. I did get the impression that it was probably new for them, and and, you know, this is left very ambiguous. Gosh, I I hate to kind of jump to and spoil the end. Bea says something like, Well, I’m gonna have to skip town again. So it seems like she has done this before. But the impression that I got, and this is just totally my interpretation, I think it’s intentionally left ambiguous, but my impression was that she maybe has done this before and that she just kind of recruits these vapid people who want something entirely selfish but are willing to do anything for it and therefore, you know, can help to serve her purpose. I don’t know if that is is what it’s intended to be or if she moves from place to place and genuinely makes friends with these types of people, but she doesn’t particularly seem, none of them seem to care about any of the rest of them. Yeah. So I don’t know.

Todd:  It’s just a weird dichotomy for a movie that has such an interesting emotional element with a believable, you know, with with a kid, with where he is at, with his complex feelings that are very real and very natural for a kid at that age that you can really relate Todd. It’s played against this group of people that are that aren’t even people, you know. There’s stock characters who have no emotional connection to each other or anything that’s happening. They’re just there to, you know, to spout witty one liners at one another and just go through, you know, the plot. So Tim pushed the kid through his journey, but they’re just kinda pawns in in the story.

Craig:  Yeah. And I gosh. I’m sitting here, you know, processing what you’re saying, and I feel like we could talk for the next half half hour about how that in itself is commentary. You know? How Yeah.

Todd:  That’s what I’m saying.

Craig:  Youth cult yeah. Youth culture today, you know, it’s so me, me, me and but but let’s not. Let’s

Todd:  let’s keep going. Going. We try not to get too deep on this, guys.

Craig:  Right. And it’s easy for us old folks to sit here and comment on youth culture. You know, I’m sure that we were probably just as self absorbed as they were at their age. Anyway, so Cole sees all this, and he hears Bee say, Okay, well, first of all, she’s got this book. I’m going to call it the Necronomicon even though they never call it that because that’s what I’m used to seeing in horror movies. But it’s the devil’s book and it’s the only one somehow she has it. And so they’re looking at it and she says, okay, let’s get started before we have to go upstairs and get the blood of the innocent. And so he hears this, and of course he freaks out, and he runs up to his room, and he’s looking all around, and there’s cool camera angles, like, kind of tracking shots in front of his face. And it’s all very panicky, and it feels very panicky on the screen. And he calls 911, and he gives them the appropriate information. You know, he gives them his address. He says my parents are staying at the Hyatt in the city, can you please get in contact with them? And he gets a pocket knife, and of course the words pop up on screen, pocket knife. Like, we have to point out the irony here. Like, this kid thinks he’s gonna protect himself with a pocket knife. But again, I thought it was funny. Like, it’s it’s kind of hilarious that he thinks that he’s gonna protect himself from this group of athletic people with a pocket knife. But eventually, he hears them coming up, so he hides in his well, he doesn’t hide. He just lays down in his bed and pretends to be asleep. And, they come in, and B says that he won’t hear us because of all the drugs I gave him. Apparently, that shot was drugged. But she says, do you have the needle? And, they and his eyes pop open. He’s facing away from them, but the camera is facing towards all them. So we see his eyes pop open into a state. Right. Right. And then he they they’re they’re drawing his blood, and we know how mortified he is of needles, but he has to pretend to sleep through this, and of course, they have to stick him more than once to actually get the vein. Just it’s so fast, like, I don’t know Todd run through the plot points. Okay. So they leave, but as B is the last one walking out, she notices the window’s open, which I guess maybe she remembers that it wasn’t open before. So, we kind of see that she notices and then she closes the door and he jumps up and he makes a sheet rope because he’s on the second floor and, he’s gonna try to climb down but then we see that B is actually standing behind him and he passes out. That was one of the only things and still kind of one of the only things that bothers me. I guess he was supposed to be passing out because of low blood sugar. Like, that’s what they say. That’s what they say later. I mean, it’s not like they took a pint of blah blah, like It’s

Todd:  the smallest thing.

Craig:  They took like a

Todd:  squid. Yeah. Right? I thought it was fright and that the the low blood sugar was just kind of a joke at the end or, you know, after it, but I

Craig:  I know. I I just thought that it was weird that he had enough strength and energy to get up and make this sheet rope and throw it out the window and then just, Oh, well, wait a second. I need to pass out. But it’s okay because when he wakes up, he’s, oh, it’s just classic. Like, he’s got that foggy kind of wake up shot where, you know, we are kind of seeing through his eyes. And then there’s just this tableau of these hot people standing in front of him. And Max, the hot guy, has no shirt on. And the first thing he says is

Clip:  Why is he shirtless?

Craig:  That’s your first question?

Clip:  I mean, how can you even ask that? Just look at him. I still don’t get it.

Craig:  Because we’re in this movie, and why wouldn’t he be shirtless? And then there’s, like, a whole there’s, like, a whole dialogue where they’re going back and forth with questions, and he just keep, like, they’re asking Bee’s asking him, like, why were you awake? Why is he shirtless? I it’s not gonna come across as funny, listeners, when I’m repeating it, but I swear to Todd, it’s hilarious. This scene is hilarious in the movie. Yeah.

Todd:  In the meantime, he saws away at that the ropes with a pocket knife behind his back, and there’s even another shot up on the scene. It’s like pocket knife, bitchin’. Mhmm. Like like, halfway through their whole dialogue, Allison just turns, and she says, oh, it’s so cute. He doesn’t realize there’s a mirror behind him. We could see that he’s sawing through the ropes. So he just starts sawing fast. She’s like, oh, look. He’s sawing faster. Like, it’s gonna make any difference. It’s it’s just funny. Like, what’s really nice about it is it’s it’s it’s pretty unpredictable. Like, I thought, I mean, like I said, sometimes the scenes are predictable in and of themselves, but what’s gonna happen and what’s gonna be the outcome turns out to really subvert your expectations a lot of the time. Like, here, you don’t know what the heck’s gonna happen. And I actually thought, well, did he even call the police? Like, was that a trick or some kind of somebody else on the other line? And then when the sirens come and it turns out those cops are gonna show up, I thought, oh, okay. They’re gonna do one of those deals where they know officer. Everything’s fine while the kids, you know, hidden with a hand over his mouth. No. The police, like, kick the door down and bust in with gut with guns, and I did not expect them to then take out the cops. Yeah.

Craig:  It’s a it’s a funny scene. Something that I only caught the second time around was that b before the cops arrive, b is talking to him, and we we just needed your blood for a science experiment. And the kid’s kind of playing along with her, but it it really he’s like, well, why didn’t you just ask? I would have given it to her, and and it at some point, like, right after he wakes up, he says to her, and I just think that this is so sweet and innocent. He, you know, he says to her, are you mad at me? Like, and it seems so genuine. Like, he here he is tied up to a chair. You know, they’ve taken his blood without his permission. But the and and maybe, I don’t know if the line was meant to be ironic, but he delivers it in such a sincere way. Like, are you mad at me? Like, through all this, he’s really still concerned about you know, this is his friend. You know, this is like his best friend.

Todd:  Well, he’s still written as as a 12 year Todd. And his logic, his his brain I mean, it’s it’s actually pretty brilliant. His logic and everything that he says and that he does still comes from a very believable 12 year old stance, whereas nobody else in the movies, you know, believable. Sure.

Craig:  Well, and that’s and then so she tells them, well, it was just for a science experiment. And he said, well, why didn’t you just ask me? You know, I would have let you.

Clip:  I won’t tell my parents that you guys were having an orgy and needed my blood to do it. Do you even know what an orgy is? I’m guessing it’s something sad people do because they want other sad people to like them, and they can forget for one minute how sad they are in general.

Craig:  That’s actually a pretty good answer. It

Clip:  was for a science project. Okay? The orgy? No. The blood. An orgy is when a bunch of people have sex together, we probably wouldn’t need your blood for that.

Craig:  Just just these quitty one liners. But, she’s gonna let him go. She says, it seems like this was all just a big misunderstanding. Untie him, go back to bed. She’s gonna let him go, but then the cops show up and she’s like, did you call the cops? If you called the cops that must mean you saw something that you weren’t supposed to see. I guess if he hadn’t called the cops, maybe he could have got through the night, but instead, they show up. And then things just go crazy.

Todd:  1 throws a poker through one of the cops eyes, and one in the meantime, that cop ends up shooting and the stray bullet goes through the at one of the Allison’s boobs, which just causes her great consternation for the rest of the movie.

Craig:  Some of my favorite lines some of my favorite lines like, oh, who’s gonna wanna suck my nipples now? Nobody.

Todd:  Who’s gonna motorboat me? Who would motorboat this? Yeah.

Craig:  God. So there’s the whole showdown with the cops. In the meantime, Cole has gotten himself free and he takes off running. John chases him upstairs and he says, What are you doing little kid? This ain’t Home Alone. And then immediately he slips. He slips on a toy car and falls over the banister and kills himself in like 3 different ways. And so he’s laying there dead and they’re all just looking at him like, Oh man, he’s dead. And Bee’s like, Great, now I gotta clean this up. So, Max and Sonia are on the hunt for him and Max chases them upstairs and is pounding on his door. And Cole tries to go out the window on his rope, but Max gets there and he starts pulling it up. But, Cole ends up letting go and he falls, down to the ground. And then this whole next, I don’t know, 20 minutes or so is kind of chasey. And if one were to be critical, it doesn’t bother me, but if one were to be critical they could say, this is really hokey because it’s just him facing off against each one of them individually. Like in in real life it would make more sense for them, you know, to be together and find them, and it would be really easy for them to take him out together.

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  But instead, no. It’s just 1 on 1, each one of them facing off with them.

Todd:  And, of course, it’s him always running back into the house, always, you know, grabbing something and going back at them instead of running down the street to a neighbor or running to the cops. And, of course, the whole neighborhood is quiet no matter how much noise is made in this. Like, the way he kills Sonya is, like, in the crawl space. He shoots off a firecracker and sprays a big can of raid in there, which explodes her, you know, blows her up, makes this huge explosion, and nobody from the neighborhood comes out running, you know. It’s it’s one of those kind of movies. You really have to suspend your disbelief.

Craig:  And then there’s a whole scene with his confrontation with Max, which is really, you know, Max is this big, hot, scary guy, but he treats Cole almost like a little brother, like he wants him to man up. He catches him, and like he’s holding him up by his throat, but then they hear something, and it’s the bully from way earlier in the movie egging the house.

Todd:  Who is this kid? She’s an asshole.

Craig:  You egg

Todd:  your house a lot?

Clip:  Sometimes. So

Todd:  what are you gonna do about it?

Clip:  What? I

Todd:  said, are you gonna let that little punk come on to your property, your family’s property, and disrespect you like that? No. Hell no. This is America. You need to wreck his ass. Are you kidding me? Get out there and crush that bitch.

Craig:  And he kisses him on the forehead. Like, it’s such a weird Yeah. But it’s so weird, but for some reason it works. Like, it’s funny. Like, this guy is so crazy and bizarre that in one moment he’s going to kill this kid, and then in the next moment he’s giving him the big brother pep talk and giving him a kiss on the forehead, like patting him on the butt, like, you can do it, buddy.

Todd:  Well, to be fair, it only works because we realized by this point that this is just a crazy movie that’s willing to go about any place, you know, for a laugh.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  Not not because it’s true to character or it’s, you know, realistic in any way, shape, or form. It’s just that by now, we we’re kind of realized we’ve stumbled into the naked gun of, of the Yeah. Kind of a movie. So yeah. Yeah. You can go with it, and it’s and it’s funny. It really is funny, But it gives him that another moment where he tries to stand up to this bully and he fails yet again.

Craig:  Yeah. Sadly. But, so then Cole comes, and he’s like, well, I’m at least proud of you for standing up for yourself, but I’m gonna kill you now. And so then he chases him to his treehouse, and he’s, Cole is up in his treehouse and the guy is like, like he’s doing the Friday 13th thing. That was funny. And eventually, he crawls up there and he’s like, don’t worry, little guy. I’m not gonna let you die with egg on your face because the bully had smashed an egg on the kid’s head. Alright. And so he wipes, right, so he wipes the egg off his face, and so he then his hands are all slimy. And somehow, I don’t know if Cole jumps down or climbs down or what, but Max tries to follow him and he ends up tripping, and he tries to grab onto a branch, but because he has egg on his hands, he slips, and then his, conveniently his neck gets tangled up in the rope and he ends up getting killed. So there’s the next one down. And then B shoots a shot gun at Cole from the porch, and Cole’s like, why are there guns? And he he runs across the street to Melanie’s house where he finds Melanie, who’s along, then they hide and there’s kind of a tense moment. But then Cole and Melanie end up in the bathroom, and he’s like, you know, I’m gonna take care of this. I’m gonna protect you. I should’ve never gotten you into this. And they kiss, and there’s great music cues. We haven’t talked about that at all, but there are these great music cues throughout, you know, all this eighties and before music that just pops in every once in a while at appropriate times. I really enjoyed that. But Cole is like, I’m gonna take care of this. And he says, I’m really glad we kissed. And she’s, me Todd. Next time, let’s make out. He runs off and he lures Bea back to the house which is where they have their, well, first of all, he has a showdown with Allison, which is hilarious. He finds her body and thinks she’s dead, but she’s not. And then she attacks him, and she’s, like, beating the crap out of him. So he starts punching her, and she he punches her in the boobs, and she jumps off. She’s, like, Oh my god, you little perv. I can’t believe he punched me in the boob. I didn’t try to kill you by punching you in the dick. And like, they have this whole conversation where she talks about how this spell was supposed to make their big dreams come true, and she just wanted to be a journalist, and he tries to flatter her, and he’s like, well, you’re still pretty. You could still be. And she plays along with it for a little while, but then she, attacks him again. And just when it looks like she’s going to kill him, Bee blows her head off.

Clip:  Holy shit. Found this in the pop card. That was so graphic.

Craig:  Then what’s going on? Like he wants to know. He’s got her book and he’s got a lighter and he’s like, I’ll burn your book. I wanna know what’s going on. I deserve to know what’s going on. And she kinda tells him, you know, you can get what whatever wish you want, and he says, so you just used me? That’s all I was to you? You just used me? And she’s like, no. I chose you. You’re my guy. And in theory, they never would have had to kill him. They just needed his blood. They had to sacrifice somebody, but they needed his blood. I don’t know that the plan ever was to kill him. No. I don’t think that it was. No. But he feels used. And and she basically says, we can still be together. All we have to do is tell them that all the rest of those folks attacked us, you and me against the world. But he’s past that, and so he he says, I have a plan Todd. And he lights the book on fire and he throws it in the corner near the front of the house and she bats it out. And this leads up to a scene that I swear to God had me laughing and crying and cheering. One of the best scenes in a movie I’ve seen ever. I just love it. So he runs across the street to Melanie’s house, and and we’ve already seen that Melanie’s dad has this stupid muscle car. And as he’s running, it cuts to slow motion and it starts playing Queen’s We Are the Champions from the very beginning. And so he’s running in slow motion, and he gets in the car. And we had already also seen earlier that he’s into these, like, remote controlled cars and he likes Todd, like, jump them off ramps and stuff. And so he gets in the car and he starts the car and We Are the Champions are playing and he just guns it and Melanie is watching him adoringly from her window and he guns it down the road with this music playing, and guns it straight towards his house, and like right at the last moment he cranks up the radio that’s playing We Are the Champions, and he’s got this, you know, look on his face like he’s just, he’s doing this. And he jumps up over like the pile of rubble that’s been established is on his corner, but it’s like a ramp. And he jumps the car over this ramp and it flips over and is flying through the air. Just before it crashes through the house, B looks up and sees it coming, and it just crashes right down on top of her, like through the whole house. Oh my God, it was such a cool scene. And you’re, this kid, this 12 year old kid, you know, it’s like his balls dropped in that moment. Like, like he’s got this, he is going to do this. And then he crawls out of the car and they have this, you know, he he comes out and she’s pinned underneath the car, but she talked to him again the same way that she talked to him before. Like, you know, like they were friends. They have this really sweet conversation and and she says, you know, wow. You crashed a car through your front porch. Didn’t see that coming. You know? And then they have this really sweet conversation, and he says, you never asked me who my intergalactic dream team would

Clip:  Admiral Adamowicz lead data for his intelligence and cool head, predator to fight, and me and you. You didn’t say we could add ourselves. Science fiction, you can do anything. Well, I guess that’s true. But don’t you get it yet? I am the big bear.

Craig:  And he he looks at her, and he just says, I loved you. And she’s Craig. Like, the acting here is just so Todd, like, you really feel like his heart is broken. Like, this girl who he loved betrayed him. That’s the worst part of it. That’s, you know, all of this violence and stuff that he had to go through, that was bad. But it was the fact that she betrayed him, that was the worst part. And you feel like she feels bad that their friendship is ending, but he just says goodbye. And then, the cops show up, and he has a cute little sweet scene with Melanie where she gives him a kiss in front of her dad, and the parents show up and they’re like, Oh my gosh. What happened? What happened? What happened? And he just kinda walks away from them towards the rubble of his house and looks back and says, I don’t need a babysitter anymore. And it’s just this really sweet coming of age kind of thing. And that’s that’s legit where the movie ends. You know, that emotional scene at the end, that is what just sold it for me. I was so after that, I was like, this movie rocks. Oh my god. I loved it so much.

Todd:  It was it was very much, in the vein of the final girls in some ways. Yeah? This just this really, tender relationship. I mean, it goes into different direction, but, it evokes a similar kind of feeling in the midst with a lot of serious goofiness in between. Although, I felt like the final girls just kind of rung a little more true. Yeah. I just love this movie. I thought it was wonderful. Loved it from beginning to end. I could understand the criticisms against it, but, honestly, who cares? It’s a movie. You know, I’m willing to kinda I don’t do that with every movie, but, with this movie, I’ll give it a pass because it was so entertaining. Right? Just funny. Yeah. Really good music, fantastic cinematography. I don’t mind McGhee at all. I think that the stuff he does is fun. He’s got his own style. You know, if you can sit through 5 Wes Anderson movies in a row, then you can sit through a movie that feels like a music video. You know? Who cares? Right. It was just a fun movie, and I wasn’t expecting it to have the pathos that it had. You know. It really wasn’t. Even as the movie went on, you know, I just didn’t expect it to end on that note. I wasn’t crying by the end, but I was super emotional about it as well. Definitely.

Craig:  It’s really rare for me in movies, period, to have that kind of emotional investment in characters and especially in horror movies because usually in horror movies they don’t even try, and that’s okay. I’m not looking for that kind of emotional investment most of the time. But those two characters, and I have Todd, I’m sure the writing and the direction played a large part, but I really think that it was the performance of Yeah. Those two actors, the actors who played Cole and Bea, Like, I just, I bought their relationship so much and I was so invested in both of them as characters. And then at the end, yeah, she outright says, I’m the big bad. I am the villain. And, yeah, you are. But, gosh, I still have this, and I’m still sad that your relationship is over. Like, I wish you could still be friends. Darn it. You guys had

Todd:  a good thing going there.

Craig:  You really did. I agree with you. I love this movie. I have and will continue to recommend it to people. It’s just, it’s fun. It’s a fun, fun movie. Watch this movie. Well, thank you for listening Todd another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. If you liked this episode, we have a bazillion back episodes you could listen to. Please, feel free to comment. Let us know what you thought about this movie, unless you didn’t like it because then I might have to get nasty. No, just kidding. We’re open to any, conversation that you may have. We’re also open to, any movies that you would like for us to watch and and review. You can find us on Stitcher, on Itunes, we’re on Facebook. Until next week, I’m Craig

Todd:  And I’m Todd. With 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Happy Halloween! In our attempt to find Halloween-themed horror films, sometimes we have to dredge the bottom of the barrel. This year, we scraped up this little-known flick with a mostly-unknown cast that happens to include Amanda Plummer. How she ended up in this turkey, we have no idea. The reviews online are kinder to this film than we ended up being. But you know Craig will give it a pass anyway.

Episode 102, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig, it’s Halloween once again. Yes. Our favorite holiday. Totally. So exciting because this year actually falls on a Tuesday. So I know that everybody, they’re probably, been by their computers this morning waiting for this to go up. So they can hurry up and listen to it on Halloween day just to put them in the spirit.

Craig:  Yeah. I know. The the the 2 people who like it when I post these on Facebook, I’m sure that they’re just waiting with baited breath. I guarantee you.

Todd:  Well, to both of you out there, thank you for listening. We have a real special treat for you today. We scour what we know about horror films and the internet and every every resource we could find to pick movies that actually are about Halloween or have some Halloween element to them like the actual holiday. And it’s not always that easy to find, is it? No. You think in horror movies would just be filled with Halloween films, but that’s really not the case. So sometimes we have to what I’m just gonna go out a little on a limb here and say, drag the bottom of the barrel a little bit and go for a film that in my opinion looks like it was shot on video for very little money. This is 2004’s Satan’s Little Helper. Now I’ve seen this movie before, I think Craig has seen this movie before too. Yeah. I watched it. I believe it came up on Netflix. It was available on Netflix for a while. I don’t know if it still is. If it is, you don’t think so. No. Well, darn it. But it’s

Craig:  on it’s on YouTube though. You you can find it on YouTube.

Todd:  You can also find

Craig:  it along with many other quality films.

Todd:  If it’s on YouTube, it’s gotta be good. Yeah. So, Satan’s Little Helper is truly about Halloween. It takes place on Halloween. And if anything, it ought to go considerable amount of ways towards putting you in that Halloween frame of mind if nothing else. Yeah. I wasn’t don’t remember being incredibly impressed with this movie when I first saw it and I can’t say that my opinion of it has changed too much since then but I do marvel at this film. It is worth talking about. It’s worth discussing and I think you’re gonna find it’s it’s gonna be a lot of fun talking about it today. I don’t know, Craig. I want your take on it because I think maybe your take’s a little different than mine.

Craig:  I don’t know.

Todd:  Is that true?

Craig:  I would I would have said so. When when we picked this movie, you threw it out there. I had kinda forgotten about it. You and I had talked about it before a long, long time ago and, you were not very impressed. And I was like, well, come on. You know, it’s got its charm. And, then I sat and watched it again yesterday. I was like, wait.

Todd:  Here’s Craig, a little older, a little more mature,

Craig:  a little wiser. I’m not I’m not really sure what it the truth of the matter is when I saw it, and I don’t remember when it was, I probably saw it on Netflix too. It’s been a long time ago. When I saw it, there was I don’t know. I just I thought there was something kind of unique and charming about it. And and there are there there are some things. Certainly unique. There are some things. Yeah. There are some things that, that, I will give it credit for, but I liked it so much at that time that I watched it again. Like, I had this this is the 3rd time that I’ve seen this movie.

Todd:  Are you serious?

Craig:  Yeah. I’ll

Todd:  try to tilt that against you.

Craig:  And watching it this time, I was like, man, this is pretty bad. Okay. Now I, I, I, I will give it here. Alright. Here’s what I like about this movie. It’s set at Halloween. It’s very Halloweeny. Like, think like Hocus Pocus or Trick or Treat where it’s set in one of these towns that I wanna live in where they clearly just like totally embrace and celebrate the Halloween spirit. Like, there are people out all over Todd, like in these elaborate costumes and like it’s very fun for for the Halloween season in that regard. And I appreciate that. The other thing that I appreciate about it, it explores an idea that really crosses my mind all the time which is that on Halloween if you were really a nasty evil person, you could really get away with a lot of stuff on on Halloween because people are expecting to see gore and violence and, and, you know, kind of mischievous things going on. It’s the same way I always tell people, in here, you know, they’ll, they’ll dig this up 10 years from now in my trial, but I always tell people like, if you’re going to shoot somebody, do it on the 4th July because nobody would bat an eye, you know, there’s loud bangs going off all over the place. And that’s kind of what this movie explores with Halloween. Like you’ve got all of this violent imagery all around you. So if there was something really violent going on, you would probably just overlook it. You would just think it was decorations or or a prank or whatever. Party. Yeah. Yeah. And and so I appreciate the exploration of that concept. Is it a good movie? Like, like you said, it feels like a TV movie. You know, it feels like it was shot on a really low budget. And, you know, that that’s not something that’s necessarily crippling for a movie. You know, we’ve watched lots of low budget movies that we’ve really enjoyed, but it kinda shows here. And, I don’t know. I just don’t know. I’m I’m interested to see what you think. I’m reluctant to even give give an opinion. You know, I was looking today at, Rotten Tomatoes. All of the reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are positive. They’re like, it’s a weird little movie and you’re going to be really pleasantly surprised. I don’t.

Todd:  Okay. I do not get this at all. I I honestly, I’m out on a limb here. You know, this is this is why, and I know I’m gonna be the 1st person to ever say this, but this is why the Internet is so unreliable. It Oh, yeah. You know, everything I read about this movie is glowing. Uh-huh. Like, oh, this is so charming and it’s so quirky and and anything that’s even borders on negative is like, well, it has its negative parts, but there’s it’s it’s funny and it’s taking itself tongue on the cheek and stuff. And I’m I’m thinking, oh, my Todd. Like, so much this movie was so distracting for me that I couldn’t even take the funny parts to heart. Like, where to begin? Where to begin? Okay.

Craig:  Let let’s let’s begin at the beginning. Okay. A Todd place to start. Stop. Don’t sing. Sorry. I may sing

Todd:  again before this is over. Just a fair warning.

Craig:  So so it opens up with this really low budget animation which we find out is this video game called Satan’s Little Helper that this kid is playing on what looks like an old cell phone that they’ve like pasted buttons on to make it look like a game console. Oh my gosh.

Todd:  Now this was this was 2004, and I think the iPhone had just come out. Right?

Craig:  I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe this

Todd:  year or the year before. So when you’re first watching this movie, you’re thinking that they’re playing a cell phone game. But then if you put it in time and then later on the sisters, like, looking stuff up on I mean, nobody’s got a cell phone and Right. The sisters looking, like, flipping open her yellow pages to look up a phone number and pulls out her landline that you realize no. And then you go back and you go wait a second. Whoever they hired out to do the animation to this, I hope they didn’t pay too much money to them because this game looks like it was animated in Windows Paint.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. It’s really bad. Oh. And and and seriously, like, I I honest to Todd think that they just took an old phone and like pay like cut out some little buttons and like, they show close ups of people playing this game all the time and they’re just moving their thumbs around like they’re not pushing any buttons or anything. Like, don’t do close ups you guys.

Todd:  Do not be proud of this. Don’t even show this game at all. We would be better off hearing the bleeps and the boops.

Craig:  Right. I mean, it’s really bad animation. And and what it is, is it’s Satan’s little helper and it’s about, you know, this apparently little kid or something that’s helping Satan. And what they’re doing is they’re just going around and like killing people and causing mischief and it’s terrible animation and this kid, our main kid, his name is Dougie. He’s played by a young guy named Alexander Bricket or Brickle, excuse me, who surprisingly only has 2 credits on IMDB. This movie and another movie from the same year and I just can’t believe that this kid didn’t have, well, like, I can’t believe that his career didn’t just blow up after this movie. He’s awful. He’s one of the most annoying obnoxious kids you’ll ever see on screen. He’s a terrible actor. Like, just awful.

Clip:  My homework’s done? Hey, Betty. No. I’m in the car. I’m going to pick up Jenna at the ferry. She came home to spend Halloween with her brother. Is that true love or what? Jenna’s my girlfriend. I’m gonna marry her. Says he’s gonna marry her? Yeah. I don’t think they got up to the word incest in the 3rd grade yet. You said 6.

Craig:  Sorry, Alexander, if you’re listening. I’m sure that you’ve matured and, you know, have become great thespian or something, but terrible. Just awful. Every line is just delivered in the most terrible way. And, like, he’s playing the game and he’s like, yes. Yes, Satan. Oh, no. God’s getting us. Like, Todd is, like, God is the villain in in this. And it’s just I think I don’t know if I didn’t realize how bizarre this was at the time. Like, he’s playing this game and he’s saying all this weird stuff about like, yay Satan and oh no, God’s getting us. And meanwhile his mom’s on the phone, you know talking to somebody else and she’s just kind of like poo pooing him like shh I’m busy. And the mother is played by Amanda Plummer, and Amanda Plummer is a good actress.

Todd:  Yeah. How did she end up in this movie?

Craig:  I don’t know. How did she end up in this movie? I mean, Amanda Plummer was in Pulp Fiction. She was in a couple of the Hunger Games movies. I always remember her from So I Married an Axe Murderer which isn’t a great movie but she’s hilarious in it. She is a good actress and like I think she must have been drunk. Like, so, like, from the moment that they pitched her this movie until they wrapped it, she must have been drunk. I don’t know what she was thinking. And she’s not Todd. I I mean, there’s there’s there’s nothing for her. I mean, like No. It’s so poorly written. There’s, like, no way that she could have elevated it to any kind of better status.

Todd:  But No. The the lines are ridiculous and the situations are completely untenable. There’s nothing realistic or natural about this movie at all. And and what you say here and this is I think part of what bothers me about this movie Todd, just the whole premise. Okay. The concept behind the premise is Todd, but all of this Satan is the good guy and better watch out Todd gonna get us. It comes off so dumb Mhmm. Childish, weird that I thought when I was first watching this that this was one of those Christian movies made by a church that they were trying to, like, subvert, like, sneak in, like, a a Halloween horror movie, some kind of message. All the way up almost to the bitter end, I thought, okay. Well, that this church that put this together is going all out. They’re putting gore in here. People are dying. They’re gonna kill getting killed, but when or when when is God gonna sweep in and save the day and everyone’s gonna Craig? You know, I mean, I was just waiting for this like moral message or something to come at the end. That’s how flippantly God and Satan and stuff are thrown around in these very bizarre ways during this movie.

Craig:  It it is strange and I don’t know if the I you know what? At Halloween time, people dress their kids up as monsters and vampires and the devil. You know? It’s not like you never see that costume. But here you’ve got this little kid in a Satan costume and it’s, I don’t know, like, if I were this kid’s mom or his sister who comes in pretty soon, I would wanna have this kid evaluated Todd Yeah. Like, what’s wrong with you? Stop it. Like, this this really isn’t funny. And and, like, there even comes a point in the movie where the sister finally is like,

Clip:  And where’s Alex? Okay. We went to the store and got the candy. Then Satan let me ride in the shopping cart and we ran all these people over. Then he took me to hell where we went trick or treating. It was so cool. My master hung this old lady out the window, and they poisoned all the candy. Dougie, where is your master? The police got him, but he doesn’t care. Cassel just taped them up and cut their guts. Dougie, do you realize what you’re saying?

Craig:  Like, this kid’s like, let’s eviscerate people. That’ll be awesome. 50 points. Like, gross. Like, there’s there’s some questionable parenting going on here. The mom is taking this annoying kid in Satan drag to pick up his sister at the harbor or something. And the the sister’s name is Jenna. She’s played by Katherine Winnick who has gone on to do some big stuff. She was just in the dark tower. She’s on a hit show Vikings. So she’s gone on to do some good stuff but they’re going to pick her up and he’s like, Jenna’s my girlfriend. I’m going to marry her. Now I understand that that’s not uncommon in young people, but this kid seems a little bit too old to still be thinking that he’s gonna be marrying his sister. Yeah. And that’s that’s kind of some motivation for a lot of what goes on later. And then, so they they pick the sister up and, the brother says, We’re going to find Satan and I’m going to show him what a good helper I am. But then he gets all upset because Jenna has brought with her her new boyfriend, Alex. And Jenna and Alex are both theater majors, Which is important. Like,

Todd:  I don’t know what it’s You

Craig:  know, like, I’m I’m I’m I’m trying to go down my notes like like I’m trying to keep it’s so stupid. My my next note is, and then then Dougie gets bullied by 3 ninjas.

Todd:  Bullying is kind of a strong term. He’s walking down the street in his devil in his Satan costume, and 3 guys on bikes dressed up as ninjas right up next to him are like, what are you supposed to be? I’m Satan’s little helper. Then they drive along. I hope Dougie isn’t too scarred by that.

Craig:  Yeah. Right. Right. And and then, I mean, then we get to okay. So he’s he’s mad. So because his sister brought the boyfriend and he was supposed to just go trick or treating with this sister, but now the boyfriend’s there. So he goes off and he’s gonna find Satan, which he does immediately. He finds this guy dressed up not in a traditional devil’s costume but in, he’s in like kind of a black, like a kind of oversized black suit with this really great mask. It’s this really great, you know, kind of gray black mask with with horns. A big smile. Right. A big and red eyes. And he sees this guy pulling a body out of a house and propping it up on a couch on the porch like a Halloween decoration. The the kid is just so dumb. Like he just stands there with this dumb look on his face. He’s like, Oh, that looks so real. Oh, it’s so cool.

Todd:  Todd talk to himself.

Craig:  You wonder why they haven’t put him up for adoption already, like, just get out.

Todd:  Well, while he’s setting up the dummies and Alec, and Dougie is following this per this guy around, Alex and Jenna have arrived at the home, and they meet up with the mom. And again, the mom is played by Amanda Plummer. The father hasn’t come home yet. He’s gonna be coming home later because mom is gonna be going out to a party with him, a Halloween party. The sister and Alex, don’t have costumes and so mom says, oh, I have this renaissance wench costume that you can put on and takes her upstairs to dress her in it. Now this is an important point. The sister, during the costuming process, seems extremely embarrassed at this wench outfit.

Clip:  Oh my god. They’re like melons. Yep. You are a little musty wench. I can’t write Alex, see me like this. We just met. I mean, you know, started dating. Actually, it’s our first official date, and I can’t believe my own mother is trying to turn me into whore.

Craig:  You ask yourself seriously, the mom wore this last year, like, I’m not buying that for a second. I’m not

Todd:  buying that either.

Craig:  And and then she looks at herself in the mirror like she’s never seen herself before. Like, like, she, like, starts talking to herself in the mirror.

Clip:  Isn’t that a bit too much makeup, my lady? The more the better. Not that the blokes be looking at me face when they got these tender morsels in their hands.

Todd:  Bad. Alright. Usually. So, anyway, they go downstairs, and Alex has the bright idea that he is going to endear himself to her younger brother, by dressing up as his hero, Satan. Mhmm. So that they can go trick or treating together, and because Dougie just wanted to go with Jenna, himself. So in the meantime, Dougie is out with Satan, and Satan sets up another body in the yard. And this is, I think, supposed to be funny. You know, he drags his body with a knife in and out the yard, sets flowers on it, sets up a tombstone and everything to make what looks like a Halloween decoration. By the way, this is all still complete daytime. Mhmm. Dougie watches him and then as Satan comes out, he follows him and stops him.

Clip:  Are you Satan? Wait. I’m Douglas Woolley. Can I be your helper? Can you talk? Then why don’t you? Because you don’t need Todd. How many points for killing that old guy? I forgot. 20. That’s all? So master, next, could we send my sister’s new boyfriend, Alex, down to help? They go to college together, and they’re at my house. And I only wanna go trick or treating with my sister. And you don’t have to worry, because my dad’s away at work.

Todd:  Dougie’s like, what’s wrong? Are you afraid Todd might see us?

Craig:  It’s I don’t know. It it it’s borderline sacrilegious, frankly. Like, it’s it’s really bizarre. Yeah. I I don’t know what they were trying to do here with all this Satan and Todd. I don’t know. It’s just it’s really flippant. I don’t know. I’m not a super religious person, but frankly, it’s a little distasteful. Yeah. It’s

Todd:  just distasteful and dumb.

Craig:  Yeah. It’s cool. And dumb.

Todd:  We have to explain at least that this Satan is not going to talk. He’s got this mask on. He has these gloves on. So you can’t see any part of him underneath this costume, but Dougie conveniently gives him all the reasons why he can’t talk. Oh, you you you’re not gonna talk because you don’t have Todd? And the costume Todd just nods. Oh, okay. And that’s how the whole movie is. Anytime something illogical seems like, Dougie can pop in and say, in his childish voice, oh, is that why you’re doing this? And the costume Ted just nods silently.

Craig:  And that is at the same time something that I like about the movie. I like that we never really know who this guy is ever from beginning to end, and but it’s also something that I hate about it because Dougie will just fabricate entire conversations. Like

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Oh, so we have to go here? Oh, because Todd might be there? Oh, because, like, like, he just has this whole train of thought. Like, oh, so that’s what you’re say and Satan just nods. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. You know what?

Todd:  A good twist to this movie would have been if Dougie had been imagining this guy the whole time.

Craig:  That would have been a good twist. Right. If he had been doing it. Sure. Yeah. I think No. There are 10

Todd:  different ways we could approve this movie, we might get through all of them tonight.

Craig:  Something that I didn’t remember from the 2 other times that I’ve watched it is that they kinda throw in this red herring. The sister Jenna and Alex, the boyfriend, see on TV that this guy, Billy Flaren, has been released from jail, and he is an arsonist, and he has caused all kinds of problems. But he’s the mayor’s kid, and the he so somehow he’s gotten out of jail and the mayor has vowed that he will keep a closer eye on him or whatever.

Todd:  The mayor has assured the public that he won’t be any more trouble because he’s born again.

Craig:  Oh, okay. Well On that area.

Todd:  That’s that’s literally what what it says. I will prove it to you.

Clip:  Mayor Flaron assures us that this time around, he’s going to close eye on his son, adding that Billy has been born again and poses no threat to the community.

Todd:  I just I I don’t this see, this is why at this point, I’m I’m I’m I’m thinking, like, this theme is so heavy and thick that this has gotta be one of these subversive Christian movies. It’s just gotta be.

Craig:  Yeah. Were we supposed to think that this guy in the mask is this Billy Flairin? Because they look they look for him later and they don’t find him.

Todd:  That’s a really good question. I think maybe now that you mentioned it. Because we get this one mention of him and which is why it’s so easy to forget. The mother flips off the TV, and it’s just Alex and Jenna in there, and she says, I bet you didn’t have any arsonists at your school. You guys want some cider? I’m gonna go get some special cider mugs.

Craig:  I’m telling you, Amanda Plummer was drunk. I mean, there’s just no other way. There’s no other way. Like, because honest to Todd, god, I’m repeating myself, but seriously, Amanda Plummer is a good actress. She’s weird. She’s she’s a weird looking lady and she’s got a weird affect, but she the movies that she’s in, she’s really good in. And in this, it really just seems like she’s drunk and she’s just trying to sludge through these terrible lines. I I’m a little embarrassed for her, frankly. Oh, yeah. Amanda Plummer, I’m sure you’re listening, and I really respect you as an actress, so please don’t be mad at me, but

Todd:  We’ll look for her comments on the web page. Yeah.

Craig:  So, okay. So now Dougie and Satan are partners, and he Dougie brings him to his house and takes him into the basement, and he’s like, this is my secret place where I can do wherever I want, and nobody can ever hear me, which is totally not true because they shout back and forth from the basement later on.

Todd:  He says it could be Satan’s secret door to hell.

Craig:  Yep. He has his secret door to hell. And then, Dougie is trying to set up Alex to get killed. He’s like, you can kill my sister’s boyfriend, and then my sister can just take me trick or treating. And Satan’s like, Todd. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so, first, Dougie’s trying to get Alex down into the basement, but when he won’t go down into the basement, Alex says, let me take you to the costume store and I’ll get a Satan costume. And, Dougie gets a look on his face like, Light bulb like, Oh, okay. And so then he runs down and tells Satan, new plan. Follow us to the costume store, and you can take him out there.

Todd:  Satan nods and then goes back to smelling the panties. This it’s little moments like this assure us that this isn’t actually Satan. Right? But in the same sense, trying to be funny, but maybe trying a little too hard in an already bizarre movie to be funny. It’s you know, when everybody’s crazy, nobody’s crazy. Right? And this movie, when everything is bizarre off the wall weird, even these things that are put in there that are, I think, trying to be funny, it’s just, oh, okay. That’s how inept the writing is. It’s funny when it’s not trying to be funny. When it’s trying to be funny, it’s just confusing.

Craig:  Yeah. And and as we’re sitting here talking about it, you know, I feel like I could summarize this movie in 3 minutes. But now when I’m sitting here trying to talk about the plot points, it’s, like, it’s it’s plot heavy. Like, there’s all this unnecessary plot baloney that’s going on. Like we find out that Alex has a terrible relationship with his father. Like who cares? Nobody cares. And it’s just stupid. Like, when they go to he’s like, I’ll be Satan so you can be my little helper. And then they go to the costume store, and he’s picking out all these masks that don’t look anything like Satan. And Dougie’s like, that’s not Satan. And he’s like, oh, I’m trying to find one that looks just like my dad. Like, wait. What? I thought that you were gonna be Satan.

Todd:  He says it’ll give him inspiration. That it’s it like, he’s that kind of actor, He he must be a method actor.

Craig:  Yeah. Well, according according to Jenna, he’s an amazing actor, and

Todd:  You’d think an amazing actor wouldn’t have to pull out the mask that looks like his dad in order to play Satan.

Craig:  I mean, it it’s it’s a funny gag. I mean, he finds this old grumpy man mask, and he puts it on, and he grabs, like, a either a costume toupee or a costume wig because his dad is, like, the toupee king or something.

Todd:  God. He doesn’t wanna he doesn’t wanna take over the family business which is of the toupee business which is why, you know, he’s a They’re estranged. Right?

Craig:  Yeah. Okay. So so now he’s got this met this old man mask on, and they go outside. And Doug, he just takes him right up to Satan. He’s like, here he is. Get him. Get him.

Todd:  In the middle of the street. It’s still dangerous.

Craig:  In the middle of the day. There’s people all over the place. And so Satan just like points like towards the alley or whatever, And Alex is, like, I don’t get it. What’s going on? And, like, Dougie leads him over there, and he’s, like, Satan’s gonna get you.

Todd:  And he and he literally is saying, I don’t get it. What’s going on? And he’s like and when Alex runs off, he just turns around and stares after him and goes

Clip:  I don’t get it. I don’t get it. How’s he gonna get me if I’m Satan? I don’t get it.

Craig:  And then Satan gets him. Okay. And so so and then again, you know, terrible writing. Any anybody else in the whole movie, Satan just kills them immediately. But instead he decides he’s just going to beat Alex up, I guess. And so he beats Alex up in the alley and knocks him out and then props him up on some, like, I don’t know, like, derelict resident. I don’t know. It’s so dumb.

Todd:  Boarded up house. And then he turns around, picks up a black cat, bashes it against the wall of the house, and uses its bloodied head to write boo on the porch. At which point, a woman and a couple trick or treaters are walking by and say, oh, this is so cute. Can I take your picture? Yeah. And he poses with the Todd, and, of course, with this big cheesy grin on his face. You know, everything that he does kind of has a certain affect to it, you know. And I get it’s this is, I think, supposed to be the comedy of the movie, but it just it just comes across really stupid.

Craig:  As does everything

Clip:  else. Yeah.

Craig:  So okay. So yeah. So so Dougie goes home and Jenna’s like, where’s Alex? And he’s like, I can’t tell on my master. And she’s like, oh, okay. I get it. He’s your master now. And so then Satan comes to their house, and it’s this whole bizarre scene where it’s this actually, I have to give it Craig, this was actually kind of spooky because the sister and the mom both think that Satan is Alex. And the sister because she knows that Alex is such an amazing actor, she thinks that he’s just staying in character by not talking and by creeping them out. And Satan is like groping her boobs and I guess it’s really cringey and and weird, but and and the mom is kinda, like, seeing all this. Like, I don’t think the mom is actually present when he, like, actually physically gropes her boobs. Doug is, and he looks on and says

Clip:  Now he’s looking at your boobs. This is so fun.

Craig:  That kid.

Todd:  But but now Jenna, who previously was so embarrassed to even be in this costume because she barely knows this guy, this is their first date, is suddenly turned into Jenna the slut, and she is absolutely happy with him groping her boobs. And later on, they go upstairs, and she makes out with this rubber mask. Yeah. I’m not sure what this rubber mask is doing to her, but as it lowers down deeper, she says, oh, take it off. And he’s like just shakes his head no. She’s like, alright. I guess if you’re into that.

Craig:  Well and even at one point, he, like, puts her in a headlock. It’s almost kinda like she thinks that’s weird, but then she gets over it. Like, I guess you’re just really method or whatever. Like, oh, man. I do like the premise. I like the premise that they think it’s somebody else and it’s not. And so, like, there is tension, you know, for the viewer. They’re you know, what’s gonna happen? Happen? You know, they don’t know what’s going on. They’re in peril and they don’t know it. Blah blah blah, whatever. But ultimately, it’s just dumb. I mean, it’s just it’s just kind of the assessment for the whole movie. Ultimately, it’s just dumb.

Todd:  The kid comes in and interrupts them making out and says, Jenna, is he getting you? And that’s why it stops. Mhmm. They go back downstairs, and the mother joins up with them. She’s in a skirt or whatever, which I don’t know. It’s just an ordinary skirt, She’s got a camera, and she’s like, oh, let me take all your pictures. Satan turns around, grabs the camera, and I guess takes a picture of her skirt.

Craig:  It was but that but it really upsets Jenna, like like, no. That’s too far. Right. It’s it’s it’s not like he stuck the camera up her skirt. It was like he was taking a picture of her feet. Like, it wasn’t even a short skirt. Like, it was like a like an ankle, almost ankle. Oh, Todd. I don’t know. It’s so stupid. Then Jenna and the mom have a conversation about how they don’t have enough candy, and Jenna’s and the mom has to make a quiche. Like, just the most just the most random stuff.

Clip:  This is

Todd:  the eighties. Who asks for a quiche for Halloween?

Craig:  I oh, shoot. I’m going to the party. I forgot to make the quiche. And Jenna’s like, don’t worry. I’ll take care of the candy. Make your quiche.

Todd:  Hopefully, somebody else is bringing the aspic and another person is bringing the Frankenmbeans. I hope they’re making Bloody Marys too. This is this is gonna be real swing in Halloween parties.

Craig:  Oh, yeah. He will have some shrimp cocktail and then their quiche. Okay. Okay. Alright. So so Jenna sends Satan and Dougie to go to the grocery store to buy candy, and so they go to the grocery store and Satan buys all kinds of torture equipment at the grocery store. I don’t even know. He buys like a steak it’s like barbecue, like stuff, like he has like a steak knife and like instead of like like, I don’t know, like a like a meat prong or something. And he buys a dough cutter. Like, isn’t that what that was?

Todd:  Yes. It’s like one of those dough cutters that’ll that’ll, like, cut dough, but also, like, cut it in a crimpy way.

Craig:  Yeah. Like like a pastry chef would have. It is it’s so funny because, like, he holds it up and, like, the camera, like, closes up on it, like, this is the most sinister weapon you’ve ever seen.

Todd:  And, again, you’re thinking, okay. Is this supposed to be funny? Do they know how bad this is?

Clip:  Or

Craig:  I think maybe it was supposed to be funny, but it just kinda doesn’t read that way. Like, again, in in a scene that makes absolutely no sense, they go through the checkout lane and get all of their stuff bagged. They also get some candy too. And they get all their stuff bagged, and then Satan just walks away with the cart, and Dougie’s like, wait, but we didn’t pay. And cashier and the bagger just stand there and look at them.

Todd:  Mouths open.

Craig:  Mouths open as they walk out, like, they don’t say anything. They don’t do anything. I’m thinking that’s that’s so stupid, but they wheel the cart out around the back of the store. And then the bagger comes around. He’s like, quit playing around, man. So Satan kind of he I don’t know. He back,

Todd:  opens up a package that had a knife in it.

Craig:  Right. And and and he kind of does it in such a way that Dougie can’t really see the violence, but he stabs the guy one time in the gut and then throws him into the dumpster and closes the lid. And Dougie’s like

Clip:  Wait till he smells all the garbage. See what you get for disobeying Satan? 20 points.

Craig:  Now okay. A a couple of things. First of all, this is this this is the stupidest kid on the face of the earth. Stupidest kid on the face of the earth. And secondly, I’ve never stabbed anybody nor have I ever been stabbed, but I would imagine that getting stabbed one time with a steak knife in your abdomen is probably not going to render you immediately dead. Yeah. But I guess it does. I I don’t know.

Todd:  It’s Halloween, man. You know? Yeah.

Craig:  Well, I mean, it’s it’s all good. And then they go then they go, oh, you you say it. I wanna hear you say it.

Todd:  Oh, my goodness. So then he sits in the the cart and they go they go on, like, a little mini video game moment here where Satan starts running with the cart in the parking lot. And, Dougie from the front goes, oh, there’s a pregnant lady. There’s a pregnant walking towards the car. So they hit her, and Dougie, like, laughs. He goes, yeah. That’s, like, 10 points. Oh, look. There’s a baby carriage. And here, just in queue, there’s a woman pushing a a baby carriage. They smash into the head, roll it over.

Craig:  Oh, that’s totally You hear you hear the baby cry?

Todd:  Doug’s thrilled by this. And then, oh, there’s a blind man, and there’s no kidding, A guy with dark glasses on and a stick in front of him.

Craig:  Yeah.

Todd:  And then then he’s and that’s it. Then they just wheel away. Suddenly, it’s night again, and they’re somewhere else and giving each other high fives, and Dougie thinks that was just the coolest thing he’s ever experienced.

Craig:  Oh, god. That that scene, it just kills me. My dad my dad, whenever I’m in the car with him, like, if we’re on trips or whatever, he makes jokes like that. Like, because I haven’t seen it, but there’s that movie like death race 2,000 or whatever, like, where people get points for, like, taking out pedestrians, and you get more points if it’s somebody who’s old or pregnant or whatever. And my dad sees people along the side of the road, and he’s like, how many points for that guy? You have to know my dad, he’s such a goofball, but it cracks me up in this scene, just reminded me of that so much, but it’s just so dumb. Like, not only is he stupid, but he’s warped.

Todd:  Like, Yeah.

Craig:  He needs he needs serious psychological help. But it’s his parents’ fault. His dad bought him that stupid game, and his mom encourages.

Todd:  His mom plays it. Yeah. So it’s nighttime now and they’re trick or treating. And so he says, oh, are we trick or treating now? And Satan nods. And then Satan gets out and, takes one of the bags out of the carts and starts walking towards the house, and Dougie starts following him, and Satan stops and turns around and looks at him and shakes his head. And Dougie, ever the helpful person who could read Satan’s mind, says, oh, I should stand guard in case God comes?

Craig:  Uh-huh. Let’s say, yep.

Todd:  Yep. Of course, that’s what you need to do. And he goes, to the door where there’s an old woman who’s taking her time getting to the to the door and Satan’s like looking at his watch and being all goofy. This woman’s in a walker slowly inching her way towards the door and when she finally gets there he like kicks her across the room. I I have to say, I actually thought that was kind of funny. It was funny. And then the next seed is Dougie standing guard against God, and who should show up but the 3, the biker Ninjas.

Craig:  The 3 ninjas.

Todd:  Like, what are you doing, Or are you did you find Satan? Are you Satan’s little helper? Are you guys trick or treating now? And Dougie turns around like, oh, that’s so cool looking at the house. And when we see the house, this old woman is hanging from the porch struggling against her noose.

Clip:  Oh, that looks so weird.

Todd:  And the kids are not Dougie, so they’re suitably freaked out and they ride on and leave down the road. Satan comes back in, but not after getting a whole bunch of, pills out of the woman’s medicine chest.

Craig:  And they continue on. There’s Satan eventually kills Alex’s dad because, you know, of of course he would, why wouldn’t he? This scene didn’t make any sense to me and I have to confess, I watched the TV edit of this so I think that there were some things cut out. So you may have to fill me in a little bit here. Like we see Alex trying, Alex woke up by the way, forgot to mention that. He’s now conscious and aware. And he wakes up and he goes to his dad’s house and he knocks on the door. But his dad doesn’t answer, and he turns around and he sees Satan and Dougie right behind him. So he runs off and then Satan comes up the door and knocks, and then Satan kills Alex’s dad and his girlfriend. Did Alex not see this? Like

Todd:  Yeah. I I Alex went off. He just he knocked on the door. When nobody answered, he left.

Craig:  Okay. Well, that seems really stupid because he knows that this is the guy that beat the crap out of him. Why would he not even stick around to see what was going on?

Todd:  Exactly. Then Alex’s dad comes down the stairs and it’s a really important plot point that Alex’s dad basically immediately starts berating him, tells him he’s wearing this stupid costume, and raises his arm as if to hit him across the face, but stops. Satan kills him, like you said.

Craig:  The so now we’re back at the family home. The Satan shows back up there, and the sister Jenna realizes that it’s not him because Alex has this whole thing where he has to take his shoes off before he comes in the house. Like, that’s just a rule at his dad’s house. He’s gonna turn Craig in his mind.

Todd:  That’s why the shoe thing.

Craig:  Right. So she sees that Satan is still wearing his shoes, and that’s why she knows it couldn’t possibly be Alex because Alex wouldn’t be wearing his shoes in the house. Except when he when Satan first came

Todd:  to the house and they had their whole feeling up moment and the sex with the mask and everything, he never took off his shoes.

Craig:  Nope. She was too excited about her new sexy net.

Clip:  That’s right.

Todd:  So her reaction to seeing that his shoes are still on is one of just sitting there and staring with her mouth open

Clip:  Yeah.

Todd:  For a very long time while things happen around her.

Craig:  Oh, god. Yeah. It’s it’s like she she realizes that it’s not him, but then Dougie comes in. It’s like, come on, Satan. Let’s go upstairs. And so, they go upstairs and she just continues to sit there until the mom comes in and then she’s like, That’s not Alex. And the mom’s like, this isn’t funny. Quit playing this game.

Todd:  Then she creeps slowly towards the staircase. I mean, none of this is at this point, I looked at I looked at the clock, and I was like, we still have 30 minutes of this. Dad comes home, and dad looks way too young to be either of their dads. Sis is still standing at the stairway staring up, at it agape. She tries to kind of explain what’s going to the going on to the dad, and he’s not listening. He’s got Alex up, and he’s, like, playing with them and Satan’s

Clip:  not even up there. He’s down in the basement so he can get back to hell in case you were God doing a job. Yeah. Well, he’s With being down, we’re all till Satan’s cut your guts out.

Craig:  Yeah. But go ahead because I got God watching my back.

Clip:  Satan, quick. Come and spill his guts out.

Craig:  And so Satan does. He comes out. It just totally, like, rips this guy’s abdomen open and kills him.

Todd:  It it’s great because, again, they’re all just standing there with their mouths open while this is happening in front of them for, like, 3 minutes. It cuts him from stomach to sternum. Uh-huh. And pulls out what it’s supposed to look like, his intestines. This is a very low budget film. And then ties his intestines around a

Craig:  chair. While

Todd:  they get together watch. Right? And then after this, nobody ever seems to care that the dad is dead.

Craig:  Not really. Not really. And so I I feel like the the kid, Dougie runs off and, the mom and the sister are like standing there confronting Satan and like the mom places herself between the 2 and she tells Jenna to run and Jenna runs, and then the mom just stands there like defiantly like, You don’t scare me, while Satan puts the dough cutter up to her throat. And Jenna tries to call 911, but we’ve already heard somebody on the street told Alex that the, police station was on fire, and all of the cops were dead except for 2, and we totally skipped over this part where the cops found Satan and Dougie and Satan sent Dougie away. And so, we can infer that Satan has actually killed the last two cops, so there are no cops. And that really leads up in the whole Todd. And that leads up to act 3 where things are just chaos. You know, peep there are people in masks running around, looting, vandalizing. And Satan has not killed the mom, but rather wrapped her up in clear tape except for her nose and taken her to this big Halloween party. And it’s it’s kinda funny and kind of tense and like you could kind of see how maybe this could happen, but really it just seems really kinda dumb. Like, they they arrive at the party and Satan, non verbally, because he never speaks, threatens her and shows her that if she says anything, that he’s gonna put the tape over her nose Todd, and then she’ll suffocate. And so, like, the valet opens the car door that they’re in, and the mom totally falls out, like, flat on her back and he’s like, Oh man, I’m so sorry. But Satan comes around and is like, Craig, all non verbally, but like no it’s okay, we were just pulling a prank. And then he takes the mom in and everybody’s like what a clever costume. And he like, he like rams her. I, I, I almost feel like accidentally, but he like rams her into the stair post and she falls over backwards, and everybody just thinks it’s a gag, and they’re all laughing and pointing and

Todd:  This woman is is like wrapped in saran wrap or or tape or something up to her mouth.

Craig:  Yeah. And and she looks terrified.

Todd:  She does. She’s got, like, a chiquita banana, like, the headdress thing on, like, with all fruit on it and stuff. The costume itself makes no sense as a costume. She doesn’t even look like she can breathe in this thing. Right. And everybody’s just laughing it off like, that’s hilarious.

Craig:  Yeah. And the host says, where’s the quiche? Okay. Alright. So Jenna and Alex, this they decide that they need to go find Satan, but they can’t just go find him right away because he knows what they look like. They get a gun that apparently Satan has left the 2 dead cops in their cop car outside the front of their house. So they try to get in the cop car, but the cops are dead. There’s no keys in this.

Todd:  Alex Alex mentions to her he that shows to her that he’s got the gun, and he’s like,

Clip:  it could be the guy from the news report. Billy Flairn? I ran into a guy who told me that the police station burned to the ground. Isn’t that what Billy is known for? So much for being born again.

Craig:  Yeah. So they’re now on a dual mission to find Billy, which he’s an arsonist and his last name is Flare, and that’s hilarious. But they have to go get costumes so they won’t be recognized. And so they go to the costume store, which the whole, you know, square has been looted and there’s crazy people running around. And she gets a full Todd, like, canary suit and he gets he gets like a full body ogre suit. They come out in these costumes, and it’s just ridiculous. I mean, I I it they they had to be trying to be funny. It just and it is, but, like, in the way that I’m laughing at you, not laughing with you. Like Yeah. You guys, this is just not that good. And so then they go to the party and Satan has spiked the punch with Drano because apparently he’s seen Heathers and, some people have died from that. And again, nobody pays any attention. They just think it’s a joke and they get there. And it’s just, what’s so funny to me is they, the filmmakers made these choices, like we have to get these protagonists in these ridiculous costumes, but for no reason. Yeah. Because as soon as they get there, Satan sees them, and he sees that Jenna is still he can see her feet, and he can see that she’s still wearing her renaissance winch winch shoes. And so he knows it’s them. Like, their costumes were totally ineffective. And so he puts tape over the mom’s nose, and she gets bounced around like a pinball around this party before Jenna finally gets to her and gets the tape off. And Nobody

Todd:  at this party is helpful in the slightest. No. She’s on the floor with her mom screaming for help and everybody’s gathered around just with their mouths agape. And so this is, I guess, kept Jenna occupied for a while. He’s dealing with her mom. So Satan has left the party. There’s again, we’re supposed to get the idea that there’s mass chaos and looting going around outside, and another guy in a costume runs down the street, turns and looks at him like, oh, here’s another guy in a mask.

Clip:  What’s up, my nigga?

Craig:  Racial slurs. Hilarious. It’s bad.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  And then and then this whole sequence is so stupid. Alex finds him, and he has the gun trained on him, and he’s, like, Show me who you are or I’m gonna shoot you. And then Satan raises his hand the same way that Alex’s dad. How does how does Satan know that that was Alex’s dad? It doesn’t make any sense at all. I mean, unless we’re supposed to believe that this is somebody they know. I mean, we never find out. So we don’t know. He raises his hand and Alex flinches. And so Alex thinks that it’s his dad in the Satan costume and he’s like, Dad? And Satan nods like, And then Satan takes the gun from him, points it at his own hand, and shoots a hole through his own hand, which seems like it makes absolutely no sense. But as it turned out, Satan had a very specific plan moving forward.

Todd:  He hands Alex the gun back and then runs off while Alex just stands there, mouth agape. Then Jenna comes and picks up Alex and Alex has a great explanation of how the scene went down.

Clip:  He could’ve killed me when he had the chance. Instead, he took the gun and he shot his own hand and then handed it back to me just to humiliate me, to show me he can keep on doing it forever.

Craig:  Oh, god. I can’t even laugh. It’s too stupid to even laugh. It doesn’t even make any sense.

Todd:  But anyway, so they drive around, and, they go Todd guess they decide to go to Alex’s house because Yeah.

Craig:  Because Satan would probably go home now. I mean, why wouldn’t he?

Todd:  And there they find the Satan’s backed up against it. Just standing at the tree waiting waiting for this to happen, waiting for them to get the idea to drive to the house, and they stop in front of it, and Alex has the gun, or she has the gun, and they both exit the car and she holds, you know, the gun up to, Satan, but won’t pull the trigger. And so Alex yanks the gun away from him and shoots Satan, like, 6 times in the chest who falls over, and then they tear off the mask, and, of course, it’s Alex’s dad.

Craig:  Again, this makes absolutely no sense. Like, as far as a plan goes, I get it. Like, so Satan then went to Alex’s dad house and and put dead Alex’s dad in in the costume. But what? Like, did he just balance this corpse up against the tree? Like, like, it would make more sense to me if the corpse were, like, tied to the tree or something. But no. It’s just standing there, and then when they shoot it, it falls over. Again, I’ve never I’ve not worked with a lot of corpses, but from my understanding, you can’t just stand them up. Like, like, oh Todd. So dumb. Okay. Well, anyway, So Alex thinks his dad was the killer, and well, they both do. Jenna goes off. She’s gonna go get her brother, and she’s gonna try to find her mom. Meanwhile, Dougie is at home, and he prays to God to make Satan go away. And then the doorbell’s ringing, and he’s like, maybe God is a trick or treater. So he goes downstairs, and he opens the door. Uh-huh. Yeah. And he opens It’s

Todd:  a static thing.

Craig:  He opens Jesus. It’s Jesus. It’s Jesus. And he’s like, are you Jesus? And he nods. He’s like, can you talk? And he’s like, no. And he’s like, oh, it’s just like Satan. You can’t talk because you don’t have to. And he nods like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. And so he brings he brings Jesus inside.

Todd:  Dougie, you were so thick. And and he shows Dougie his hand with the whole

Craig:  Yes. Important. Prove that he’s Jesus, I guess? Yeah. Because it’s a stigmata. Yeah. Don’t you know anything? I know this, but I know Toby is too smart for you. I know

Todd:  this, but I don’t understand why that was necessary. Like, a Satan mask was good enough for Dougie to believe that was Satan. Why would a Jesus mask not be good enough for for this? I

Craig:  don’t know. I don’t know. And and I also don’t know why Satan then allows Dougie to run outside where he finds Jenna, and he tells her, he’s like, It’s okay, Jesus is here. Look, it’s his blood. And she’s like, Wait a minute, was he bleeding from his hands? And he’s like, Yeah. She figures it all out.

Todd:  She’s a serious encyclopedia brown, this woman.

Craig:  Absolutely. And my it’s gotta be my favorite line in the whole movie. She figures it all out, and then, like, she looks up with this look of, like, revelation on her face, and she goes,

Clip:  Jesus is Satan.

Todd:  And this is the point at which I realized that this was not a subversive Christian film.

Craig:  Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. And honest to God, I think that the first time I saw this movie, I kind of gave them props like, wow, have the killer put on a Jesus suit, you know, like, I mean that’s some pretty powerful iconography right there.

Todd:  It’s nothing if not unique. We’ve we have definitely never seen this in a

Craig:  Yeah. Before or since. I’ve never I’ve never seen the Jesus killer before, but, so the mom comes home like, you know, I guess somebody just dropped her off, like, you know, she’s just been through this traumatic experience. Her husband is still dead, murdered in her home, but

Todd:  Nobody whatever. Nobody, like, really cares about this at this point anymore. Dougie shows us his bloodied hand to his sister. See? I touched Jesus. She says, are you lying to me? Did you touch daddy, or did you?

Craig:  No. I swear. So then we still we see Alex who is still kneeling by his dead father and Jesus comes and kneels down next to him And this is really kind of funny, and and Alex looks over and it’s Jesus, and Jesus, like, quick looks over at him and then grabs him and drags him off. The family, Jenna and Dougie and the mom, hear a window breakdown, and Jenna and the mom go downstairs where they find Jesus and kill him. Jenna is hitting him with like a golf club or something and the mom stabs him to death. Dougie, meanwhile, is outside trying to flag down a police helicopter. Right. And Which is, like, clearly, like, somebody up on

Todd:  a roof or something with a flashlight.

Craig:  Hell, shining it directly on him. Right? And Jenna and the mother realize that they’ve not killed Satan, but rather that they have killed, Alex who has been dressed up in the Jesus drag. And, so Dougie’s outside and he finds a cop and he takes his hand and brings him up to the house. And he’s like, don’t worry guys, I found a policeman. And they opened the door, they’re like, oh, thank God. And they go back in the house. And their address is 66 something. But before this, policeman goes in the house, he pulls out some spray paint from somewhere and puts an extra 6 there. So it’s 666. And then he walks inside. He’s wearing a mask. Like, I don’t understand. Like, did they not realize that he was wearing a mask? It didn’t look like that realistic of a mask. Were they so traumatized that they just didn’t see this? And they they walk in and it cuts to black. And before the credits roll, we just hear Jenna say

Clip:  Mom, why doesn’t he say something? He’s afraid Satan will hear him.

Craig:  And then the music starts and the credits roll, and that’s it. Thank god. My god. I can’t believe I can’t believe that we just talked about that movie for that long.

Todd:  Oh my

Craig:  god. Todd didn’t even deserve it.

Todd:  That’s a that’s the second time you said that in in as many weeks I

Craig:  think. The end. Thank god.

Todd:  But it was, it was was it even entertaining? I don’t know if it was entertaining. I honestly can’t say. Maybe the kind of movie that if you’re watching with some friends and you wanna laugh at something and not with something, this is the movie for you. It does take place at Halloween. It could put you in the Halloween spirit for sure because there’s lots of people at Halloween parties and running around with masks on. Definitely, it’s all about Halloween and Satan. Satan. And Todd, you know, you can get you get Halloween and you get your church in with this. Yeah.

Craig:  You could skip church, you know? No. Look. Look. I’ll give it this. It’s an oddity. It’s weird. For sure. It’s a weird little movie. And, you know, you need that every once in a while. Just something that it’s unexpected. It’s it’s it’s strange. It’s bizarre. It’s certainly stupid, but I don’t know.

Todd:  Does anybody else notice how Craig almost feels obligated after every dumb movie that we watch Todd to to give it some kind of props. Like, no. It’s it’s Even though we’ve trashed the whole thing for the last hour,

Craig:  you know, it might be

Todd:  worth watching.

Craig:  I know. I do. I know. I do it every time, but I like, it’s because I mean it. Like, I watched this movie. I I’ve watched it 3 times for Todd sake. Like, there’s gotta be something, you know, like, I don’t know. I would not recommend it to your casual viewer, but for dorks like us who like all types of horror, I don’t know. It’s weird. It’s weird. And look look, we just spent like an hour and 5 minutes talking about it. Like, obviously

Todd:  It is. What what we’ve proved is it is a film. It does last for about an hour and a half. Things do happen in it that one can recount.

Craig:  It’s true. I guess I have to get over my kind of apologist thing. I mean, maybe that’s the thing. Maybe I just, you know, keep listening to our podcast. Sure. We talk about crap movies all the time, but let you know you love it. It’s

Todd:  impossible to find information about this movie online. There’s nothing. That even the IMDB page is almost is is there’s no trivia. Right? Which is which is like our bread and butter. Like, we don’t know what to do with that movie trivia. And the director, Jeff Liberman, apparently, must have I think it’s a very small cult following of some kind, because he’s mentioned in a number of reviews and things. He has the kind of bio that you get the feeling is written by him or someone close to

Craig:  him,

Todd:  but he there is a film that he did and way back in 19 70, I think 74, 76 called Squirm that I do wanna see sometime. This is kind of an equally unlikely premise about killer worms burrowing into people. And this movie was on the shelves of video stores for quite a while and has some really interesting stills on the back of people with worms coming out of their faces that, I’m very interested in this. I doubt it’s much better than this, but it’s very interesting that this guy’s like most of his Todd place, and there’s not much of it. Like, 6 movies or so took place in the mid to late seventies, a little bit in the early eighties. He wrote the screenplay for never ending story 3, but then he did nothing until 2004 when he did this. And, I did the math, and I think he was, like, 67. So that’s a pretty big gap to jump from doing pretty much nothing to this weird oddity of a movie that Mhmm. It’s hard to believe that he was able to convince the likes of Amanda Plummer or anybody from nature to get on board with, even just even reading the script. You know, sometimes I even apologize for these films, and I go, you know, I can see where this read better on the page than it did in real life. There’s no way that this read better on the page because the dialogue is so inane.

Craig:  Well, and and maybe part of the reason that I try to be diplomatic about these things is because, you know, who am I? I I don’t know anything. I, you know, I I’m in no place to criticize anything. And when you look at the reviews online, they are largely positive. I really, really don’t understand why, but they are. And what you read is, yeah, it’s different, it’s weird, but it’s quirky and it’s unique and it’s fun and it’s it’s a pleasant surprise. Okay. Take your word for it.

Todd:  It is a surprise. Pleasant, I’m not sure, but definitely. Yeah. They’re half right there.

Craig:  Okay. Alright. Well Anybody And that’s all I have to say about that.

Todd:  Happy Halloween, everybody.

Craig:  Happy Halloween.

Todd:  Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend. You can find us on Google Play, iTunes, Stitcher, anywhere else where, you can find podcasts available for download, we’re probably on there. And also you can find us on Facebook like everybody else. If you like this episode or have some comments about it, maybe you absolutely love this film, please put us in our place and leave a comment on that site. We’d love to hear from you and we’d love to respond. Have a happy Halloween everybody, we were so stoked to bring you the horror films during this Halloween and, we’re gonna have some Thanksgiving film, horror films for you at Thanksgiving. We’re gonna have Christmas horror films for you at Christmas, Hanukkah horror films for Hanukkah, Easter. Whatever we could find and dig up, it’s gotta be better than Santa’s little helper.

Craig:  Santa, you’re already in the Christmas spirit.

Todd:  That’s right.

Craig:  It’s Satan’s

Todd:  little helper, but that’s okay. It’s Satan. Until next time. I’m Todd, and I’m Craig with 2 Guys and a Chainsaw.

Umberto Lenzi died about a week ago. We pay tribute to his memory the way we tend to do on this show. That is, we review his most notorious film. We didn’t say it was his BEST film. We said it was his most notorious. Here, from the man who originated the short-lived cannibal “genre” of trash cinema, is Cannibal Ferox.

Cannibal Ferox (1981)

Todd:  Hello, and welcome to another episode of 2 Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, it’s time for another tribute episode. We received the news recently that the famed Italian filmmaker, Umberto Lenzi, has passed away. Now, when I say famed, I mean within within kind of the place where our bread is buttered. Umberto Lenzi is kind of a legend. He had made, hundreds of movies, literally hundreds of movies because he was part of the Italian studio system back in the glory days of the Italian studio system where they just churned the stuff out like crazy. And I would say that Umberto Lenzi, who passed away at the age of 86 in Rome with no official cause of death, he occupied that territory where somebody would make a movie, it’d become a big hit, and then he would get called upon to make the knockoff. Okay. To kind of make the movies, in that vein or that style of that film that was a big hit, and then, and, you know, just kinda churn them out quickly and cheaply Todd try to ride the coattails of that more popular movie. Now that’s not to say that that’s every movie he ever made, but that was, generally speaking, his wheelhouse. I’d call him, like, a second tier Italian director, whereas you go up to, like, Dario Argento, and, even Fulci, in a way, kind of straddles a line between the 2, but I’d put him up a little higher. Those guys are a notch above, really. They were more the innovators. Umberto Lenzi, he’s a bit more of the hack job. Am I being too harsh? This is a great tribute, isn’t it?

Craig:  I know, like, you know, we do these, tribute episodes and usually it’s, you know, because these are people that we admire. I look, I don’t know anything about Umberto Lenzi. I know nothing about him. I’m sure he was a lovely man. This movie is garbage. Garbage. Like hot stinking garbage. Like, I feel really bad fans of Umberto Lenzi. Like, I mean no disrespect, but I am not gonna be able to hide my disdain for this movie. And you accused me last week of being an apologist and always being like, oh, well, it’s not that bad. No.

Todd:  You’re coming out with both guns blazing this time to prove me wrong, aren’t you? Well, I would agree with you completely, Craig. And the name of this film that we’re talking about, by the way, is Cannibal Farox, and it was done in 1981. Now something that Lenzi arguably, and I think pretty convincingly, can argue that he did actually start the cannibal genre of films.

Craig:  Whether No. Wait. That’s a great achievement. The cannibal holocaust came out in 1980. Right? So was was this his response to that movie, or were they, you know, independent of one another and and he didn’t know? I I I don’t know.

Todd:  Yeah. So what happened was, Umberto Lenzi did, a film called The Man From Deep River. And now, The Man from Deep River, you could say, is the first big cannibal movie. That was in 1972 that that film came out. This movie kind of set the stage. It’s about a guy who goes on an expedition. He gets captured by some natives, and he basically goes native after being tortured, and then joins in with them. So that was really the first of the Italian cannibal films. He was approached, and he tells the story all the time because he highly disputes that, Ruggero Diodaro, who is generally given the credit for cannibal holocaust, is kicking off that genre. He hates this guy who was getting all this credit for it. He said, I did The Man From Deep River. The distributors came back to me and said they wanted me to film a follow-up to it. He had absolutely no interest in doing a sequel. And so because he turned it down, they went to Diodaro and asked him to film the movie, and that is what became a cannibal holocaust.

Craig:  K. Makes

Todd:  sense. So so yeah. So I think it’s pretty well recorded. This is the argument he makes, and it seems pretty solid that that’s what happened. Eat a Life came out in 1980, so it was at least around the same time. So, yeah, dude. Cannibalism movies, this gosh. We probably need to do cannibal holocaust and then just stop doing this these for a while. It’s it’s I don’t think they tread new ground. They don’t tend to be very varied in their topics and their themes.

Craig:  Yeah. That’s the thing. Like, okay. So I I’ve seen Cannibal Holocaust because it’s one of those movies that if you’re a big time horror fan, it’s like you have to see it. Like, okay. You have to watch this. And I’ve seen it and I don’t know, like, it’s alright, I guess. It’s totally exploitive and and and that’s kind of the point of these movies. You know, they’re they’re labeled as exploitation films and they’re kind of inherently racist. They have all kinds of problems. Yeah. I mean they they treat native civilizations as, you know, they’re they’re totally objectified. And the natives in that movie and in this movie, you know, they’re one note. They’re they’re just basically presented as savages. You know, like, I I wanna look at these movies and compare them to something of quality, and the closest thing that I can think of is Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness which is the same kind of story and and really kind of treats native civilizations in the same way. But it and that that book is criticized for its portrayal of native populations as well it should be. But these movies, I can’t find anything really redeeming to say about them. I guess if anything, what they show is what assholes white people are, like. Generally speaking. Right. Generally, you know, it’s all it’s it’s always about or it seems to me based on the very limited view because I don’t I don’t seek these movies out. I’ve seen Cannibal Holocaust. I’ve seen this one now. Thank God. Yeah. But, you know, it’s it’s these ignorant, terrible white people, totally misguided. You know, they have these, of course, from their white perspective, they have these ideas about what these native populations are about and they’re they’re just so culturally ignorant going into these native populations and then getting killed. I kinda like I am so I’m I’m struggling with anything to say because I just don’t know. Like in this movie, it’s the same kind of thing where you’ve got, okay so the main folks are this trio of Rudy, Gloria, and Pat. And Rudy and Gloria are brother and sister and Gloria is finishing up her doctoral dissertation and her dissertation is all about how cannibalism has never really existed. It’s just a construct created by the white man to try to make native populations look bad.

Todd:  It’s kind of a noble it’s almost anti what you just explained the films end up being. Right?

Craig:  Well, that’s what it’s supposed to be, but it comes across as just being so superior and, you know, like, I don’t know. Like like, she’s supposed to have these good intentions and yet the movie itself looks down its nose at these native populations and it’s just it’s it’s just troubling and unsettling from that perspective. Like, it’s just so off putting like,

Todd:  yeah,

Craig:  no gross.

Todd:  You’re right. It it’s it’s problematic at so many levels. It’s problematic in the plot and the themes, and then it becomes problematic in the actual production of the films. Yeah. And maybe it’s kind of unique in horror from that way. I I think it’s worth discussing. It’s worth talking about for that because there’s not a lot of we’re not gonna talk at length about how wonderful this movie is and how wonderful the cinematography is and how great the acting is and how skillful the writing is because it’s absolutely none of those things. But these movies make cannibal this movie makes cannibal holocaust look like Citizen Kane. And, actually, I really like cannibal holocaust. I can’t wait for us to do that episode because I completely came around on that and I think even by comparison, this movie existing elevates cannibal holocaust a couple more notches. I’m not saying that cannibal holocaust doesn’t have some of the same problems, but I think that that movie comes from a better moral center than this movie. You know, all of these cannibal films, if you wanna go back even further, they all kind of have their roots from the Mondo films back in the early late in the sixties. Mondo Kane came out, which purports to be, and it some ways is a documentary. It’s an exploitive documentary. Basically, guys went out and found footage that you would find shocking about native tribes or other cultures around the the world and their practices, their sexual practices, their eating practices, their funerary rights and things where sometimes, you know, they burn the bodies and then eat the the sludge, you know, that kind of comes off of them if after they’ve been out rotting for a while. You know, just these true things that do exist, but they’re presented in this documentary not as an academic process, but as a, hey, everybody. Let’s look at how backwards and messed up and screwed up everybody else is. Let’s look at how primitive these people are so we can be shocked by them, feel good about ourselves. It’s it’s complete exploitation. And then the Mondo Cane was so successful. Even even the song, the theme song was got an Academy Award for best song that year. Mondo Cane was so successful that it spawned a ton of copycats where people would go out and do all this filming or they would find footage that already existed and stick it together. So it became a real exploitative genre of film. No doubt about it. These cannibal movies are almost essentially fictionalized, you know, versions of that. They don’t even pretend to be documentaries. Right? But they tend to be shot in this documentary style as though they’re giving us a kind of window into these native cultures. And what they do then in order to save money, essentially, is they go out and into the jungle and find one of these native tribes and pay them to act in it. So they they can pay these people peanuts because they’re absolutely poor and living in squalor, and they’ll do anything for this movie. They don’t even understand really what they’re doing. Right. And so there’s that aspect to be uncomfortable about as well. Right? That maybe what you’re seeing in this fictional movie, some of these actors themselves are being exploited. You you’re always questioning, like, do these people realize how they look on screen? You know, these people who probably will never see this movie finished, who don’t maybe have never seen a movie in their life, do they realize what they signed up for, and would they be happy with that if they knew?

Craig:  Well, and that’s that’s the thing, like okay. I don’t love Cannibal Holocaust. I’ve only seen it once, and I’m sure you’ll make me watch it again, whatever. That’s fine. But, it it like but but you’re right. Seriously, compared to this one, it seems much better. Now, I do know that with that movie they did pay this actual tribe to participate in the movie. And I, you know, as shocking as the world found Cannibal Holocaust to be, again, this native tribe had never seen anything on film ever and the filmmakers did, they showed them the movie or or at least footage from the movie and the native people thought it was hilarious. Like all these things that we found so shocking they thought it was hilarious. But I don’t know, you know, I looked around to try to find stuff about this movie and there just wasn’t really all that much information out there. Was that the case here? Like, were are the natives that we’re seeing on screen in this movie, are these actual native people or they are okay.

Todd:  Yeah. Now just like, what and what they do a lot of times in these movies is they’ll all almost all of them will be native people. But if there’s something a little too extreme even for a native person to agree to do, like a rape scene or something like that, they’ll sometimes sub in An actor. Yeah. Who knows what they’re doing in there or if it’s a part that really requires no. In this case, I actually had that very same question, and I did a bit of digging. There’s an excellent interview with, Giovanni Lombardo Radice, who is the guy who played Mike in this film. It’s it’s a text interview. I actually went and I saw a video interview with him. He as bad as he is in this movie, he seems like outside of this movie, he’s actually probably a pretty good actor. He comes across really well in his interviews, and he talks about this movie. And one of the things that he says is that, yeah, they came in, they paid these natives, and he was also very mixed about in his feelings about actually, he he hates this movie. He doesn’t even like, he’ll talk about it, but he doesn’t ever think about it. And he thinks that his performance in this film is the worst performance he’s ever given in any film before or since. But, yeah, he said that, you know, the thing is that these tribes, they will do anything, he said, because they are completely poor, and you’re coming in and you’re bringing them some money. Of course, they’ll agree to do it. And he said for what it’s worth on the set and everything, nobody seemed to have any problem. None of the tribe, you know, members seemed to have any problems with what was going on.

Craig:  Well, that doesn’t really I suppose in this movie, it doesn’t really surprise me that much because the native people are really used as props more than anything. I mean, they they just stand around. Yeah. And and again, like, that’s another thing that just bothers me. Like, they’re not even treated as like they’re human characters. Yeah. I mean they’re they’re just like props and and then eventually they kind of become a threat. But as is the case with, if I remember because it’s been a long time, but as is the case with Cannibal Holocaust Todd. Like they’re just kind of these props to stand around and then eventually they kind of become a threat to the white people. But deservedly so. I mean, that’s even the people, you know, like, in in theory, Gloria, who is doing this doctoral dissertation, in theory, she has, you know, some compassion and and some feelings of humanity towards these native people, but it just doesn’t even read that way because it it’s just so exploitive. I guess, okay, so it opens up in New York City, and if I have anything at all positive to say about this movie and it’s very tongue in cheek saying this it’s the music. Like, it it opens up with this amazing disco music overlooking this city bay. And, they bring the funk. They do bring the funk. Yeah. It oh, totally. And my other and this is totally going out of sequence, but this funky, peppy music will just pop up at the most random times. Like, somebody will die and they’ll be like, oh my Todd. That’s so sad. And then

Todd:  It’s it’s it’s true. It’s so discordant that you wonder, like, is it supposed to be that way or is it just really enough filmmaking?

Craig:  Well, I read that the director, I used the exact same music that he had used for one of his other movies. So I don’t know. Maybe they didn’t have

Clip:  a budget for a sound designer. I don’t know.

Craig:  I don’t know. Maybe they spent all of their sound design money on the terrible, terrible English dubby. Oh, God. Okay. So this film was made in Italy. Well, it says at the end that it was shot on location in the Amazon and in New York City, which fine, maybe it was. I don’t know. If they were speaking English when they originally filmed it, then it must have been so bad that they still felt the need to dub it. Because it’s entirely dubbed. And what was funny to me is sometimes you could tell that they had to get more English dialogue than actually matched up to what the actors were saying. So sometimes, they’ll

Clip:  be like, like, they’ll be talking super fast

Craig:  to try to get it to match up.

Todd:  Yeah.

Craig:  Let me yeah. Okay. Check. There’s one thing I hate about the movie. Okay. But there’s okay. So it’s this city bay and there’s this smarmy guy walking around and he turns out to be this junky and he goes to this apartment and he’s looking for Mike. Mike is his dealer or whatever, but there’s some, like, drug lords there who are also looking for Mike because Mike owes them money or something, and so the drug lords kill the guy. And, and, like, all of this that I’m talking about is like this kind of wrap around story that makes no difference. Like, they could have cut it out entirely, and I wish they would have because it’s stupid.

Clip:  Come on, shit face. Where is he? I tell you, I don’t know. I don’t know. This is how you know when Mike’s got coming to him for ripping his off, pig face. I I had nothing to do with it. Let me go, please. Okay? Just let me go. Sure. So you can tip him off. Sure, face.

Craig:  So, anyway, then eventually we get to the Amazon River.

Clip:  Like, oh, like, what? Oh, Todd.

Craig:  And we meet okay. And then we that’s when we meet Rudy and Gloria, brother and sister. Gloria is the doctoral student. And Pat, who is just, like, some hooker that they’re friends with.

Todd:  Literally a

Clip:  hooker as we find out later.

Todd:  Which God.

Clip:  Oh my word. To be fair,

Craig:  she’s pretty. Todd for her. And they’re looking for a village called Manyoka, which the officials tell her is, if it even exists, it’s impossible to find because after you cross the Amazon River, it’s like 80 miles on foot or something. But they’re like, no. We’re gonna find it because Gloria’s gonna prove that cannibalism doesn’t exist and

Todd:  Which is terrible logic, by the way. She quotes she quotes, I think it was a newspaper story that this particular tribe in Manyoka had practiced cannibalism. And so she thinks that it’s the clincher for her thesis that she goes to this one tribe where it was claimed that cannibalism existed and proves that they didn’t do it, that basically solidifies her case.

Craig:  Right.

Todd:  I don’t know which university that would hold up in, but, that’s a that’s a pretty bad leap of logic. Somebody needs to tell her there could be other cannibal tribes out there besides these people.

Craig:  Well, Todd. That oh, there are so many terrible things about this movie. Like, her her theory her theory actually kind of makes sense. Like, it would make sense that the imperialists of England who were trying Todd, you know yeah. You know, they were totally raping Africa and and all of these other places of all of their resources and whatnot, you know, trying to make the natives look bad. That totally makes sense. But then the, the movie is just so deaf culturally. Like it’s so stupid. Like, so when, when they eventually get there and I’m sorry for going totally out of sequence, but these things just like keep coming to me. Like when they finally get there, as it turns out, what the conclusion that they come Todd, or that Gloria comes to, is that, oh, cannibalism does exist, but only because the white man has driven them to it. And like, Oh Todd. It’s so dumb.

Clip:  Like It’s it’s this I guess

Todd:  we’ll get there. Yeah. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. We’ll talk about it for sure. So, anyway, they meet up with the the authorities and whatnot, and the authorities tell them blah blah blah. Good luck. And these three people venture out on this in this Jeep. The Jeep gets stuck and

Craig:  Thank Todd. It’s so stupid, Todd. They they they get they get dropped off on this beach with this Jeep. And I swear to Todd, they do not drive 50 yards before they get stuck in the mud. Like literally not even 50 yards before they’re totally stuck. And another thing, while they’re on the ferry or whatever it is to get across the river, these other, not native people, but people native to, yeah, locals, give them this animal. I don’t even know what kind it looked like a, like, a mongoose or something to me.

Clip:  I don’t know what

Craig:  it was. They give them this animal and say, here this can be like bait or whatever. I don’t know. Like the snakes will go for it instead of going for you. And so they get stuck in the mud 50 feet from where they started. And so then they have to start walking and and eventually they camp out and, they tie up this poor ant to like a post or whatever. And then we get this totally gratuitous, scene of like, an anaconda attacking and killing this animal. And this is par for the course for these movies with these like graphic real life animal deaths. And I just can’t stomach it. I just can’t. Like, I get it. I get that that’s the way of the world. I get that that’s nature, that animals, you know, eat one another. But just the thought that they took this animal that these actors have been carrying around and petting like, you know, this sweet animal. Yeah. It’s totally cute. And then they tie it up. And again, I get it. Giant snakes eat little mammals. I get it. And if I’m watching it on the Nature Channel, that’s one thing. I still don’t like it. But the, I, I’m, they, you know, they set this up, you know, like They

Todd:  set this animal up to die for the film.

Craig:  Yes. And and we have to watch it in all its gory detail and this animal is screaming. And this is only the first of several horrible, horrible animal, you know, like mutilations and deaths. And I mean, that that enough is enough to just turn my stomach, and I wouldn’t watch this movie again if you paid me Oh,

Todd:  no. $4. Just what you had to pay to get it from Google Play. My goodness. You know, it it’s indefensible. I mean, bottom line, it’s indefensible. Of course, it was a different time. Of course, we didn’t have the the strict rules at the time of of how you treat animals on movie sets, and all kinds of terrible things were done to animals, not not even this explicitly, but, you know, off this off the set. Todd doesn’t excuse it. It’s the excuse that the filmmakers will often use, like, say, look, it was a different time, but even Humberto Lindsay has come back and said, look, obviously, I’m not proud that we did that, and I would never do it again for what it’s worth anyway. At least they acknowledge that this is, that was a bad idea.

Craig:  And Well, and it’s it’s just for shock value. I’m gonna go ahead and bring it up now because it really makes no difference to the plot at all. But but one of the other scenes is the native people, and again, I understand they have to eat whatever, I get it. But they pull this giant, I guess it’s not a sea turtle because they’re not on the sea, but like a river turtle, this great big turtle, and they chop it up while it’s alive. And to be fair, they chop its head off first. I guess that’s merciful. But it’s still alive and they just continue to chop it up and like they’re chopping up its limbs and you can see this animal trying to pull its limbs, even once they’re chopped off, trying to pull its limbs into its shell. And it’s it it just made me sick. Like Yeah. It’s gross. I don’t wanna see that.

Todd:  Oh, it is a stomach turning, and it’s meant to be shocking. And it also, for what it’s worth in the artistic aspect of the film, it helps to blur that line. Right? It helps to make the film seem a little more documentary. It’s it helps to be like, okay. If what you’re seeing here is real, then maybe your brain will also associate the other stuff as being real as well. So when you throw in the real stuff along with, the fake stuff, they’re trying to not only shock you, but also and I think that’s why you only really see this level of animal cruelty and this kind of animal cruelty in these films. And it seems like every one of these Italian made animal films, of which there are, like, a dozen. It’s not like it’s a monster genre or anything. But it seems like you said, it’s par for the course. Like, they’re required to have this, and it is sickening, and it’s hard to watch. And, again, with this turtle thing, Lindsey also said, look. These guys, they eat the turtles. They this is actual delicacy for them, so we were just filming what they do anyway. Okay. Mhmm. Whatever. We still don’t wanna see it. Right.

Craig:  You know. Right. I get it, you know. I I eat meat. I understand that the animal has to die, like, I get it, but oh man, is it painful to watch. Oh Todd.

Todd:  For sure. The

Craig:  the okay. So I guess it’s it’s so difficult. You know, I I I have a page and a half of notes And why? Why? Because there’s there’s no reason. I mean, okay. So these these three people, they get stranded and they’re like

Clip:  So what do you wanna do? Go on or go back? There’s nothing marked on this map. Nothing but swamp. It’s simple. Let’s toss a coin. For me, it’s no problem. Either way, I don’t give a shit. Okay, bitch. Heads, we go on, and tails, we give in. Dionne? Flip it. Okay.

Craig:  First, I feel like they run into there are things that I don’t even understand. Like, Rudy is hacking through the brush with his machete, and they come across this native guy with blood and pus all over his face just like sitting. It looks like he’s sitting on a toilet. I don’t even know. And he’s like eating something. Like, I don’t even know what that was about. I don’t know what was

Todd:  Oh, it was just meant to be shocking. But but but what didn’t make sense was that here they are. They’re looking they’re they’re stranded. They’re looking for civilization. There’s this very real possibility that they’re going to get lost, and so they’re looking for this tribe, and they’re finding no people. And the first person they run across, they look at them and they go, ew. Let’s keep going. And just keep moving along like again, it’s like you say, they Todd from the very beginning, they’re treating these people like props.

Craig:  Yeah. You know? So, like, as as soon as they walk past that guy, like, all of these young, virile boys stand up out of the brush like they’re watching or whatever. And then immediately they come across these 2 white guys, and these 2 white guys are Mike and Joe, and Mike tells this whole story about how they came here thinking they could like find a bunch of cocaine because Mike does coke. That’s established like, hey, I do coke. Like, okay, thanks guy. I’m glad you told me that. His story is they ran across some Peruvian who was, like, in the emerald trade or whatever, and they thought that they could hook up with him and, do, like, an emerald coke co business.

Todd:  And you’ve got to diversify. That’s the number one rule of business is to diversify.

Craig:  But he says, but the the cannibals caught us and and they killed the Peruvian and castrated him and killed him and and whatever. Now as it turns out, this story is not true. The truth of the matter is they were there. I don’t know why they were there, probably for coke reasons or whatever, but they came across this this this native guy from the tribe who said, Yeah, we have emeralds, in the river by our tribe. And so they took him back to his tribe and when they couldn’t find emeralds, then Mike just went on a crazy mad Coke binge and killed a bunch of people.

Todd:  But it was it’s better than that because Mike enlisted the people to help start sifting

Clip:  Right.

Todd:  For emeralds, which it was explained they were more than happy to do.

Clip:  A Portuguese and his buddies sure weren’t expecting it. They thought white men were all fair and honest.

Craig:  I don’t do coke. I don’t encourage anybody to do coke. I don’t know.

Clip:  Like, I don’t know if it

Craig:  drives you Craig. It makes you wanna kill people. I don’t know. Stay away from drugs, kids. I don’t know. But, but the reason this, all of this, that’s, that’s like a half an hour of the movie that I just explained. But the reason that I raced through it was because when the 3, the original 3, Rudy, Gloria, and Pat are going through and they find that pussy, gross guy and all those, you know, young guys stand up and are like watching them. Then, you know, when they find the the 2 guys, Mike and Joe, they’re like, yeah, we fled the village and thank goodness. All of the young men weren’t around. They were off on a fishing trip. They were off on a fishing trip, like 50 yards away. Like, I Clearly. It’s the stupidest. It’s so stupid. Like, Mike ran this whole, like, murderous spree, and he was able to do it because the young guys were away on a fishing trip. They were, like, around the freaking corner. That’s true. So dumb. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I don’t I don’t know. I don’t even know where to pick up from there.

Todd:  So they go, and, basically, they’re, like, help us get to the river. So they get to this river, and they tell the story. And then, Gloria, they they they camp again. And when they wake up, after the camp, which, by the way, every time they camp, it’s clearly the same set. Uh-huh. Gloria is missing, so they immediately go out to find her. On the side, a cheetah kills a monkey. We get to see that. Mhmm. Then, again, they supposedly went how many miles

Craig:  I don’t know.

Todd:  To get away from the village. But in their 5 minutes of looking for It was supposed to be

Craig:  80 80 miles. 80 miles. It’s it’s a 100 yards, if that.

Todd:  Clearly, they stumble upon the camp, which Mike’s like, oh my god. This is the village, and, we can’t be here.

Craig:  They’re like, oh, well,

Todd:  let’s just look around a little bit because it seems like everybody’s gone.

Craig:  Now Except the old people who just sit around and look at them.

Todd:  Yeah. Which isn’t creepy at all, which

Craig:  I I I wish that, like, eye rolls were audible so that you could so that the audience, our 2 listeners could just hear my eyes constantly rolling And they get to this village and like, I don’t know, maybe this was a real native village, I can’t imagine, but it was just like 8 huts in a circle around a fire. When they go inside these huts it looks like huts out of, like, Tahitian resort. It looks like a Palatine

Todd:  at Disney World. Yeah. These huts. There’s a normal bed. There’s like a bed with a mattress and everything like that.

Clip:  Oh, God.

Todd:  They maybe need Craig. So the set design is stupid. Everything is hokey. It makes absolutely no sense. It’s probably not why people are watching this movie, though.

Craig:  Probably not. Why? Why are they watching it at all?

Todd:  The movie. Bigger question. Well, they do find Gloria. She’s stuck in a trap, with a pig. There’s, like, a wild pig in this trap. And so Mike immediately jumps in, and is and saves her by cutting the stabbing the pig with a knife.

Craig:  Yeah. And and I read that this actor, and I applaud him for this, was totally against all of the animal abuse in the movie and he wouldn’t do it, like he refused to do it. So his, double had to do it and, but they needed a shot of him stabbing and they wanted there to be blood splatter. So their answer was, okay, well, we’ll have your double hold a bowl of blood and you’ll just stab into the bowl of blood, and it’ll splash out, and we’ll get our shot. Well, he did, but it was just a freaking bowl. And so he stabbed through it into the hand of his double and like severely injured his double. Oh, god. Filmmaking at its best.

Todd:  Which he felt was was poetic justice for killing the pig.

Craig:  And and that’s the other thing Todd. Like, she falls in and, like, I guess we’re supposed to believe that this pig poses some threat to her, but really it just seems like this poor, sad little piglet that, like, got thrown in this pit with her that’s, like, terrified itself. Like, it’s not bothering her.

Clip:  That’s that was stupid.

Todd:  And as opposed to all the other animal killings that we saw in this movie, this was a quick flash. I mean, it was really a waste, to be honest. If you’re gonna kill an animal for a shot, and for that shot, it could have been an already dead pig puppet or something that they had stabbed. That’s how much you see of this actually happen. It’s it’s also really really sad. I saw Giovanni Radice, the actor involved, said that Roberto Lindsay was telling him, like, oh, come on. You could do it. You can do it. Robert Todd Niro would do it. And Radice responded. He said, De Niro would kick your ass all the way back to Rome. It is probably true. He did not like this guy. He did not like this, this director. They did not get along on this film at all. And he and Lindsay did have this reputation for really pushing people beyond their comfort zone. Even though he did work with a number of people repeatedly, and people do you know, it it’s like anybody. He’s a complicated guy, I guess. People speak fondly of him, but there are other people who are like, the guy was a total asshole, and he was basically doing anything for a buck, which was the system, honestly, at the time. When he talks about these movies and he talks about, just in general, the films that he did and especially these cannibal films, he’s tired of talking about he was tired of talking about them. He didn’t understand why people focused on them. He himself said that the movies were crap, that they were cheap, and there’s no acting in them, and there’s no plot, and no nothing, but they were what his distributors wanted. And so he basically dumps a lot of that off onto his distributors and said, look. You wanna know why I have this scene in the movie? The German distributor came to me and said, for the next movie, could you please, include a scene of a white man sodomizing a native woman? And, like, okay. I’ll write that scene, and he puts it in.

Craig:  I guess that makes me feel a little bit better about talking bad about it. At least he recognized that it was crap because it is. And what it turns into then is, like, I guess, you know, these white people are just kinda hanging out in this native village and the natives aren’t bothering them. And at at some point, Joe gets sick, and somebody else, I think it’s Rudy, says

Clip:  How come all the younger indios, they’ve left the village? And when we we go near those old ones over there, why do they act so scared? I told you the whole story. How could they not be up tight after what happened? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it’s like you say, but they seem scared of us, of our white skin, as if we were gonna do something to them. Should be the other way around.

Craig:  But Joe gets sick, and the other jerk, Mike, is like, well, let’s just leave him here. And they’re like, no. And he’s like, okay. But he’s like, we’ll stay. But if the natives come back, I’ve got 4 rounds left in my gun, and I’m gonna shoot us all because they’ll torture us or whatever. And they’re like he’s like agreed, and Gloria’s like, okay.

Todd:  It’s it’s the most casual suicide pact in cinematic history.

Craig:  Yeah. Oh, god. It’s so stupid. And then Pat and Mike hook up and and they have sex or whatever. And Yep. Again, there’s nothing good to say about this movie, but this scene where it just like cuts to them laying naked and like there’s a post, like a pole holding up the structure or whatever that they’re in, which very conveniently covers Mike’s genitals. But that’s the only thing that is covered up, like she’s just laying there totally naked and she’s talking and they’re talking very casually and he’s just like playing with her nipple like

Clip:  it’s it’s

Todd:  it’s kind of uncomfortable you don’t see that level of It is

Craig:  uncom when when I was watching it, I was actually thinking, you know, there’s there’s really nothing to be said for the acting in this movie because it’s not Todd. But I actually kind of applauded this lame actress who played Pat because I’m like, the fact that you can just lay there and tell a story. I mean, it it felt kind of it Todd did. I mean, like, you know, it it You don’t,

Clip:  You don’t

Craig:  you don’t see that in in them up very often, but I mean, you know, that you know, that could

Todd:  happen. It’s the honest and realistic sex scene. They they used real nipples for this scene. Yeah.

Craig:  Real nipples. And, she confesses that she had been kind of like a casual hooker. Like she had worked in a hotel and he was like, oh, did you ever get any extra tips? And she’s like, yeah, sometimes from these certain guys or whatever, like clearly implying that, you know, she would bang for money or whatever. And then he’s like, but you had to come out here because you could never really get a full thrill, right? And she’s like, Yeah. And he’s like, Let’s go take a Native girl. And this made me very uncomfortable, like, Oh my Todd, they’re gonna go get one of these young native girls and rape her, which, again, would not have at all been out of the ordinary for these types of movies.

Todd:  Not at all.

Craig:  But they go and they find these 2 young people, a young man and a young woman at the Riverside, and, he, like, pushes the guy aside and he takes the girl and he gives Pat a knife.

Clip:  What are you waiting for, Pat? Come on. Enjoy. Make her scream. Don’t be shy. She’s all yours. Go ahead, man. She’s my little filthy little cannibal. Cutter.

Craig:  And then it was only at the last minute when she’s holding the knife at this girl’s breast, she’s like, oh no, I can’t do it. So that’s how we figure out that he’s a monster. And when the young girl tries to run away, he just kills her and, you know, he shoots her in cold blood. And and that’s when Joe who’s sick and dying, tells us the real story about how really it was Mike who terrorized this community and mutilated their guide and castrated him and all in this effort to find the emeralds. So we know that really it’s Mike who’s the villain and it’s the white people who brought all

Todd:  of this horror into this tribe, which apparently then led them to cannibalism. Like, they weren’t cannibals before, but since they’ve been terrorized by these white people, they are I guess it’s trying to sound academic, but it’s stupid and terribly insensitive notion that she presents that they’re regressing to their primitive selves. So the idea being that when they’re when, you know, humans are pushed far enough, they’ll keep progressing and keep progressing until they’re, you know, to their most primitive state, which, it goes without saying, would make them cannibals. And in this case, because they are so primitive, you know, one more notch in being pushed, they’re gonna become cannibals. So yeah, it’s it’s really bad. And I’d love also in this scene just talking about fantastic writing. But just before Mike and Pat leave, Joe and and the rest of the gang so that Joe can actually tell the story about what really happened. Joe is relapsing and they’re talking about how they’re worried about him. And Mike gives this long speech that basically is is an argument for leaving him to die.

Clip:  You know what the Indias call blood poisoning? The sickness within the sickness. If one of them happens to get it, they separate him from the others and let him die. And crows arrive to keep the guy company. 100 of them, screeching and cawing and biding time till they come on. Drop it, will you? Okay, baby. Okay. There’s the root of a plant, the so can a. It can bring fever down. I’ll go look around for some. Be back before dark. Okay. Yeah.

Todd:  It was either leave him to die horribly or, oh, I I I do know of some medicine that’s available in the woods that might that might serve this purpose. I suppose that we could do that instead.

Craig:  I didn’t write down any of the actors’ names because most, if not all of them, were actors who I’ve never heard of, and I don’t think that our listeners would ever know. But the guy that played Mike, he’s a handsome guy. He’s a blonde haired, blue eyed guy, and and he’s handsome and charismatic. And he plays all of his scenes, especially once it’s been revealed to us that he’s crazy. He plays them within such intensity. He’s like Matthew McConaughey on crack. Like, he’s he’s just got these crazy eyes and, like, he’ll be delivering lines that seem so innocuous, but he, like, he’s Craig. Like, But I I at least appreciate that he went balls out with it. Like, he’s he’s just he’s totally a dick, and we know it.

Todd:  I think we’re gonna see this guy again in other movies because there’s a short list of Italian films I still wanna see, and he’s in a lot of them. This guy is pretty cool. Actually, you should really, if you’re at all interested, there are some cool interviews with him, even now. He’s a pretty accomplished stage and screen actor. He’s one of these guys who is just always, as far as the screen goes, just always in these low budget movies where you never made it big, unfortunately, for him, but, has done a lot on the stage. He has he’s a very intelligent. He speaks 3 different languages. Wow. Yeah. He’s really, an insightful, cool person, and it his perspective on this film is really worth seeking out and reading because, he has some interesting things to say about it. Giovanna, Lombardo Radice is his name.

Craig:  Yeah. I I’m not surprised that he had a career because he is even though he’s really arguably the villain of the movie, he’s he’s pretty charismatic, and he’s the handsome guy. So I’m not I’m not surprised that he went on to do other things.

Todd:  He’s just not given any room to do anything. You know? It’s just he’s a one

Craig:  Except the except the asshole and Yeah. Crazy. And that’s fine. Whatever. Well, so Pat and Mike run off together, but eventually they get caught. And so all and the young men from the tribe come back from their 50 yards away fishing trip. Now they’re in trouble, and they’re, you know, all the white people are captured, and they’re put into cages and and stuff like that. And fortunately, they go after Mike first, and and they tie him up to a big post just as he had done to their guy, and they castrate him, which is fairly unsettling for our male viewers. Yeah. What’s interesting and funny to me is that they, I think too much about things. They castrate him and eat his wiener. And, but then like they cauterize the wound, and and then it seems like he’s pretty much okay. Like, I’m thinking if my wiener got cut off and then cauterized, I would I might be a little uncomfortable, but, he seems alright. And, like, and I’m I’m Todd, I’m I’m so stupid. I’m like, how does he pee?

Clip:  That’s not

Craig:  but he’s okay. He’s alright. And then it really just kinda becomes, you know, like they’re moving them around. And, like, why are they moving them around? I don’t know. Because Obviously, they’re just gonna kill them all. And at one point, Rudy tries to run away, but he falls down and he hurts his leg and, like, gets a gash in his legs. So then he tries to hide in the river and then anacondas attack anacondas, not anacondas. What am I looking for? Piranhas. Piranhas.

Todd:  Which the shots look like they were they were shot through it like an aquarium. Yeah. It looks like little guppies in an aquarium. They don’t even have teeth. Oh, it’s so funny.

Craig:  Yeah. So, like, piranhas attack him. And so, like, he screams and reveals himself, and they kill him with a, blow dart, like a poison dart or whatever. And then meanwhile, while all of this is going on, we’ve forgotten the people in New York City, and it keeps jumping back to New York City. Again, we haven’t talked about it because it’s totally unimportant, but they keep jumping back to it. And every time they jump back to it, you get the awesome

Clip:  Sometimes it’s

Todd:  the Salvation Army Band playing.

Craig:  And so, like, Mike’s girlfriend and the cops are looking for him, and at some point, they come to the Amazon and they’re looking for him. It doesn’t matter because it doesn’t pay off. Way out. Yeah. Then they, like, they throw the 2 remaining girls, like, in some kind of big, like, mud hut or something.

Todd:  And Giant ant hill. Yeah.

Craig:  The giant ant hill. Yeah. And they throw Mike in some other cage or something. I don’t know. And then there’s a part that I feel like was supposed to be poignant.

Clip:  Please, god. It’s not. Get it out of here. Don’t come here. Let’s sing something. Sing. Yes, hon. To keep our spirits up to show they can’t break us down. Alright. So they so they sing,

Craig:  but remember the Red River Valley?

Todd:  Not the best choice of

Clip:  song when you’re in a situation like this.

Craig:  And, like, we get these shots where, like like, the native people are, like, moved by their singing. And I think we’re supposed to believe that maybe that’s why one of them, like, tries to help them escape in a little while.

Todd:  Thank you for explaining that to me. Because when the one guy comes in and helps them escape, I was like, where did this guy come from, and why is he suddenly on their side? It made no sense to me whatsoever.

Craig:  Oh, it makes even less sense when you really think about it because I’m pretty sure that that guy who helped Gloria escape is the same guy Yes. That witnessed his friend get murdered. I don’t know if it was his girlfriend or his sister or whatever. But but when Pat was there and and Mike murdered that young native girl, it’s the same guy. So it wouldn’t make any sense that he would wanna help them, but

Clip:  Yeah.

Craig:  Whatever. It wouldn’t

Todd:  make any sense at all. Well, and what makes even less sense Todd, I love the part where they drop down a piece of meat hanging on a skewer. Mhmm. Which and then, like, Pat, who’s the most squeamish of them all, immediately leaps to it

Clip:  to get the Todd. And

Todd:  then Gloria has to be like, no. What if that’s Mike? Yeah.

Craig:  Oh, gosh. And then okay. So they put I don’t remember which one happens first. This all happens very quickly at the end. They put Mike in this rigged up table that has, like, a little hole cut in the Todd, and they stick the top of his head up through it and slice the top of his head off so they can just pick at and eat his brains. It’s convenient that they weren’t cannibals before, but they still had this brain chopping table.

Todd:  Brain chopping table. And a skill

Clip:  to do it. Yeah.

Todd:  I, I read, actually, there was a funny interview where they talked about, the this brain chopping sequence, and, apparently, the brains were a mixture of mashed banana and stage blood. And I guess some stage blood is really gross. And so when the natives, were eating this, of course, they’re not actors. So they had, like, these extreme looks of disgust on their face, and they had to keep shooting this over and over and over again to get shots where the natives looked like they were at least not retching at eating the brains that they just got out of this guy’s

Craig:  god. I

Todd:  thought that, honestly, like, of all of the goofiness and, you know, whatever special effects in here, that aside from the animal killings, that was the one thing that I found the most uncomfortable that kind of turned my stomach the most. Well, maybe maybe the castration, but number 2 was definitely the brain thing. I thought that that was, for what it’s worth, well executed.

Craig:  Yeah. In a different movie, I might have appreciated it more, but at this point in this movie, I was just Todd, like, whatever. It’s just to

Todd:  be done.

Craig:  Is this movie over yet? And and then they also pull off Pat’s shirt so she’s topless and she’s like she’s looking at Gloria like Gloria, Gloria like help me and they take this giant hook, I don’t know what they use this giant hook for except for to poke it through her boob and, they they end up doing that. They poke the 2 giant hooks through both of her boobs and hang her up by her boobs, which kills her pretty quickly. And there’s a, like, Gloria is looking at her like

Clip:  Please let her die soon. Oh, let her die soon. And let

Craig:  I don’t feel sorry for you. And nothing that this movie is going to do at this point is gonna make me feel sorry for you. Like, yes, I’m sorry that you got strung up by your boobs. I’m sure that’s really uncomfortable, but seriously, is this movie over yet?

Todd:  You were saying, please let me die.

Clip:  Please let me die.

Craig:  So this young native boy helps Gloria escape and she runs away, but then he gets killed by some trap. Again, I don’t really understand why the natives are setting this trap because they only serve to kill themselves. That’s right. They only kill And then okay. So then we see some, like, animal poachers going down the Amazon, and they hear a scream, and they find Gloria. And I don’t know, like, it seems like we’re supposed to believe that she’s been wandering around in the Amazon by herself for a couple weeks because she’s got blisters all over her face and she’s covered in mud. Then we cut to her graduation ceremony where she’s getting her PhD. She’s being celebrated for her wonderful doctoral dissertation about how cannibalism isn’t real, and they’re talking about how she went through this harrowing experience, with her brother and some other people, and they had all been eaten by crocodiles, but she had survived. And fortunately, she had survived to be able to prove with firsthand experience that cannibalism doesn’t exist. And she just looks dead eyed, and she gets her diploma and, medal and the end. Thank Todd. Oh, my god.

Todd:  It’s mean spirited, you know. You’re

Craig:  yes. This movie definitely makes a lot of the bad movies that we’ve seen so far. You know, I love a a good bad movie. I love a good bad movie. This is not a good bad movie. I am not gonna recommend this to anybody. I don’t care who you are. I don’t care if you are a horror enthusiast. I don’t care if you are a horror completest. Just skip it. You don’t need if if you need to see this kind of movie, which I’m just not a fan of this genre, period. But if you need to see this kind of movie, watch Cannibal Holocaust.

Clip:  Oh, without a doubt.

Craig:  I don’t I don’t like that movie either, but it’s better than this one.

Todd:  We will do cannibal holocaust because it seems obligatory with on this podcast, and I’m gonna do my best to convince you that despite its flaws, that’s a good film. But you’re right. I completely agree with you. This movie is trash, and it’s mean spirited, and there are all kinds of problems both in the film and the film making. Well acknowledged by all involved, so we’re really not saying anything new here. I was continued to get shades of the green inferno which we saw.

Clip:  Yeah. Yeah.

Craig:  And and we didn’t like that movie either, and I it was so funny to me because that I feel like we got more response from that episode than a lot of our episodes because people, like, what are you talking about? This is a good movie. And I was, like, okay.

Todd:  And that movie, you know, Eli Roth really cited Deonado, the cannibal holocaust guy and that film as his inspiration and brought the guy to the premiere and threw out the red carpet for it and the whole deal, whereas I feel like his movie was more a retelling of this film.

Craig:  Absolutely. And I thought the exact same thing. Mhmm.

Todd:  Even even the sequences with the in the cages and all that stuff. Now, I mean, a lot of this carries, but the the ending is exactly the same.

Clip:  Mhmm. Mhmm.

Craig:  Yep. Gosh. I didn’t even think about that, but you’re absolutely right.

Todd:  So how could he not acknowledge, and maybe he did somewhere, but why do you roll out the red carpet for the guy whose movie you didn’t completely rip off instead of the guy whose movie you took the beginning, middle, and end from. Mhmm. That I don’t understand, and I’m gonna I don’t really care that much.

Clip:  But, you know Oh my god.

Craig:  Right. I I doubt Eli Roth will be knocking down your door. Think. So

Clip:  but, you know, kinda like,

Todd:  I have this thought in my head that maybe Eli Roth himself is embarrassed to to admit that he ripped off this movie.

Craig:  Look. Eli Roth, you know, you love him or you hate him. I’ve got an appreciation for him, but I don’t think he’s embarrassed about anything.

Todd:  Fair enough. Yeah. This would

Craig:  be the part where I would generally apologize and be like, well,

Todd:  Mark Nope. Marked state. Craig said don’t watch this film under any circumstances.

Craig:  Okay. Alright. Well, here comes the apologies in me, I guess. You know, Humberto Lindsay, you said that he’s he made what? More than, like, 80 films or something like that?

Todd:  Almost 200.

Craig:  Almost 200. Okay. Now that is to be admired, and I have mad respect for that. I do not like this movie, and as you have indicated, he has, or he had, and when he was living, you know, spoken out about how he said it wasn’t a good movie and I applaud him for for saying that, but I I have to give respect to a guy who was so proliferate in, the genre, and I appreciate that. So, even though I think this movie sucked, mister Lindsey, I still raise the glass to you, and it’s it’s unfortunate that you won’t be here to give us 200 more.

Todd:  I’m just gonna tag on to that to say that he did lots of other films, in the crime genres, in the mystery genres, in the giallo genres, in other more traditional horror genres, dramas. I worked with some big named actors. He even worked with Esther Williams early in his career.

Craig:  Oh, wow.

Todd:  So the fact that this is one of the more notorious of his films doesn’t mean that it’s one of his best. As you said, he wasn’t proud of it. He said it was a cash grab, pure and simple, just doing the distributors wanted. And he said, I’m still making money off of Eaten Alive and this movie. Every time they show on TV, every time they show anywhere, he gets a check for, like, €2,000.

Craig:  So Something to something to be said for that. You gotta make a living.

Todd:  At least those animals didn’t die for nothing.

Craig:  Yeah. Okay.

Todd:  Was that tasteless? Okay. It was. Well, thank you again for listening to another episode. If you enjoy it, please share with a friend. You can find us on Itunes, Google Play, and Stitcher.

Clip:  You can also find

Todd:  us on Facebook where you can like us, our page there, and leave some comments about what you thought of this film, as well as any films you’d like us to watch in the future. Until that time, I’m Todd

Craig:  and I’m Craig

Todd:  with 2 Guys With A Chainsaw.