2 Pastors and a Mic

In this episode, we sit down with our friend Zoran from Macedonia to talk about grace, calling, and the beauty of living a life led by the Spirit. His stories, prophetic insight, and heart for people will leave you encouraged and challenged. Don’t miss this powerful conversation!

00:08 - Intro and Welcome
01:20 - Special Guest Introduction: Zoran
03:00 - First Encounter and Prophetic Encouragement
04:10 - Zoran’s Family and Global Ministry
06:45 - Embracing Grace and Loving All People
10:00 - Ministry Work in Macedonia
13:00 - Activating Hidden Callings in Others
16:00 - Prophetic Words and Long-Term Impact
18:30 - Faith, Grace, and Practical Spirituality
20:45 - The Power of Words and Unexpected Impact
22:00 - Encouragement from James 1:17
24:00 - Life Is a Gift and Perfect Moments
25:00 - Zoran’s Website and Social Media
26:00 - Closing Thoughts and Book Promo
27:00 - Final Blessing and Sign-Off

In this episode, we’re joined by the brilliant Shane Willard for a powerful and thought-provoking conversation on the gospel, reconciliation, and why Jesus prioritized tables over tablets. Despite a technical glitch, this AI-enhanced episode captures one of the richest interviews we’ve ever had. Shane unpacks theology with humor, clarity, and depth - covering everything from Acts 8 to redefining righteousness, and why true spirituality is about digging deeper wells, not building higher fences.

➡️ Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe.
📘 Preorder Channock’s new book Enough Already (releasing June 25)
🌐 Learn more about Shane at shanewillardministries.org

00:00 - Intro & Audio Glitch Explanation
01:00 - Celebrating 100K Downloads
02:17 - Introducing Shane Willard
03:48 - Cultural Impact & Leadership at Hill City
05:48 - Wells vs. Fences Metaphor
09:01 - Acts 8 & The Ethiopian Eunuch
12:59 - Static Bible vs. Living Word
16:00 - Philip’s Dilemma & Living Scripture
17:30 - Shane's Theological Journey
21:36 - Reclaiming the Meaning of Words
25:30 - Righteousness, Generosity, and Biblical Language
29:30 - Tables vs. Tablets & Reconciliation
35:30 - Philippians Preview & No Grumbling Message
39:00 - Where to Find Shane Willard
43:00 - Missions & Children's Homes
45:30 - Closing Declaration

In this final episode of the “Let’s Talk About Hell” series, we answer listener questions, unpack common objections, and offer five reasons to follow Jesus that have nothing to do with eternal punishment. It’s not fear that transforms us - it’s love, peace, and purpose.

This isn’t about abandoning faith - it’s about deepening it.

00:00 - Welcome & No Question of the Week
00:26 - Celebrating a Record-Breaking Week
01:01 - Listener Highlight: Jordan’s Testimony
02:20 - Shoutouts to the Team & Studio Upgrade
03:01 - Handmade Gift from Bobby
03:52 - Gratitude for the Hill City Team
04:46 - Jumping into Week 4 of “Let’s Talk About Hell”
05:41 - Reminder: This Isn’t Exhaustive Theology
06:16 - Upcoming Conference with Shane Willard
06:56 - Transforming Gehenna: The Redeeming God
08:52 - Rapid Fire Listener Questions
09:19 - Does Suicide Send You to Hell?
10:18 - What About Revelation 21:8?
11:32 - The “Depart from Me” Verses
12:26 - Common Questions About Hell & Christianity
12:48 - If There’s No Hell, Why Follow Jesus?
13:52 - Dr. Matt Pandell & Jacob Wright Quotes
14:50 - Reframing Evangelism Without Fear
15:28 - Reason 1: Abundant Life Now (John 10:10)
16:20 - Understanding Union With Christ
17:33 - John 20: Purpose of the Gospel
18:14 - Reason 2: Responsibility to Bring Heaven Now
19:05 - Brian Zahnd: People Need Love, Not Threats
20:01 - Why This Matters More Than Afterlife Doctrine
21:00 - Real Life Campaign: Being the Church Daily
21:58 - Reason 3: Living Intentionally & Leaving a Legacy
23:11 - Writing Books for Generational Impact
24:00 - Citizenship in Heaven, Residency on Earth
24:34 - Reason 4: Perspective in Pain
25:48 - Reason 5: Peace That Surpasses Understanding
27:23 - Evangelism as Restoration, Not Saving Souls
28:30 - Closing Thoughts: Peace Over Fear
29:10 - Belief Activates the Truth in You
29:27 - Final Word: You Are Loved—And Nothing Can Change That

In this week’s episode, we dive into part 3 of our series on Hell - challenging traditional beliefs about hell, unpacking Jewish and early church perspectives, and exploring why fear has no place in the gospel. We share listener feedback, address theological criticism, and ask some hard but necessary questions about God's love, judgment, and what it really means to follow Jesus.

Whether you're curious, skeptical, or wrestling with your own faith journey, this conversation is meant to open dialogue - not shut it down.

00:00 - Welcome & Podcast Intro
00:23 - The Purpose Behind These Conversations
01:16 - Feedback and Questions from Listeners
02:04 - Responding to Online Criticism
03:30 - Coloring Books, Theology, and Humor
05:06 - Nearly 100K Downloads & Gratitude
05:41 - Preaching About Hell at Church
06:54 - Why We Talk About Hell Publicly
07:59 - Announcing the New Ebook on Judgment & Wrath
08:42 - Week 3: What the Hell Series Intro
09:27 - Recap of the Four Hell Words in Scripture
10:04 - Diversity of Jewish Thought on the Afterlife
11:19 - Olam Haba & Resurrection Beliefs
11:59 - Gehenna as Temporary Purification
12:48 - Recommended Deep Dive: John Crowder Teaching
13:35 - God's Fire as Healing, Not Harm
14:12 - Powerful Quotes About God's Wrath
14:52 - Fire Reveals the True Self
16:00 - The Real Goal: Removing Fear from Theology
17:04 - Biblical Love Casts Out Fear
17:16 - A Biblical View of Hell as Earthly Experience
18:19 - Hell as Earthly Suffering, Not Afterlife Threat
19:02 - 70 AD vs. Afterlife: What Was Jesus Talking About?
19:49 - Hell Shouldn't Be in Gospel Presentations
20:56 - Adam vs. Jesus: Who Holds More Power?
21:25 - Paul’s Gospel Never Mentions Hell
22:10 - What the Disciples Did—and Didn’t—Say About Hell
23:16 - No NT Precedent for Hell in the Gospel
23:49 - Old Covenant vs. New Covenant Logic Breakdown
24:46 - Jesus as High Priest vs. OT Priests
25:12 - Challenging Question: Is Eternal Hell Logical?
26:04 - The Tragic Case of Andrea Yates
27:06 - Atonement Theory Breakdown: Did Jesus Suffer Hell?
28:13 - Jesus Defeated Death—Not Suffering in It
28:42 - God Is Love, Not Death and Torture
29:18 - Defining Hell: No Longer Being Able to Love
29:35 - Empowerment to Manifest Heaven
30:15 - Manifesting Heaven or Hell: You Choose
30:49 - Closing Reminder: You Are Loved

Join us for week two on our conversation about hell.

00:00 - Welcome and Podcast Intro
00:23 - Celebrating Feedback from Last Episode
01:46 - Shoutouts to Supporters and Hill City Church
03:09 - Theology Must Lead to Love
04:26 - Personal Encouragement and Emotional Funk
05:45 - Why We’re Talking About Hell: Removing Fear
06:59 - Challenging Harmful Beliefs and Church History
08:05 - Clarifying Early Church Views on Hell
09:53 - Foundations and Origins of Hell
11:05 - Gehenna and Jesus’ Use of Fire Metaphors
11:51 - Understanding Destruction and Restoration
12:48 - Wrestling with Free Will and God's Mercy
13:55 - Did Jesus Really Talk About Hell More Than Anything?
15:04 - Unpacking Gehenna, Hades, and Hell Translations
17:02 - Exploring the Four Words Translated as Hell
18:47 - Jesus’ Context for “Gates of Hades”
20:17 - Tartarus and Its Misunderstood Meaning
21:40 - Deep Dive into Gehenna
23:12 - 70 AD Destruction and Jesus’ Warnings
25:01 - Prophetic Warnings from Jeremiah and Isaiah
27:01 - Symbolism Behind “Worms” and “Unquenchable Fire”
28:53 - James and the Tongue Set on Fire by Gehenna
30:21 - The Importance of Studying End Times (Eschatology)
32:07 - Final Thoughts on Debate and Interpretation
33:39 - Key Question: Does Your Belief Serve You Well?
34:55 - Ending in Love, Not Fear

Since we just talked through seven weeks of church trauma/spiritual abuse, the largest issue stems from fear. Fear and our lack of understanding around hell has caused a lot of damage in the lives of people. If you're open to the conversation, let's have it...

00:00 - Intro & Why Today Matters
00:53 - Easter Recap & Record Attendance
02:27 - Preaching Two Services
03:33 - “We Is Risen” Revelation
05:10 - What the Podcast Will Unpack
06:03 - Church Trauma Recap
07:57 - Fear in the Church & Gospel
09:25 - Perfect Love Casts Out Fear
10:31 - Wrestling with Belief and Growth
11:57 - Doubt Builds Trust
13:16 - A Call to Curiosity
14:30 - Recommended Resources on Hell
15:59 - Book Breakdown & Hell Views
17:10 - Journey of Changing Beliefs
18:24 - Three Views of Hell Explained
20:08 - Problems with Fear-Based Salvation
21:26 - Perfect Love & Repentance
22:49 - History of Hell’s Doctrine
25:00 - The 6 Early Theological Schools
27:02 - Justinian & Roman Control
28:33 - Selling Salvation Through Fear
30:03 - Augustine’s Influence & Original Sin
32:02 - What Jesus Actually Taught
33:29 - The Word “Hell” in Translation
35:00 - A Call to Reevaluate & Discuss

We hope to be a safe haven for people on their faith journey. Let's talk about the trauma that many people went through in Scripture. Not to compare or downplay ours, but to relate, empathize, and know we're not alone.

If we're going to try to help reform the broken system of the church, we have to unpack the trauma that is created by mean Christians.

If we're going to try to help reform the broken system of the church, we have to unpack the trauma that is created by over-spiritualization - where we credit God for things He doesn't do and say things to grieving people that aren't helpful.

If we're going to try to help reform the broken system of the church, we have to unpack the trauma that is created by improper humility - the teaching that causes people not to love themselves, trust themselves, or trust their God given intuition.