This episode came on the heels of a traumatic, eight-interview sprint in NYC. As you’ll see, this one was particularly chaotic, but the stars aligned to make it happen. Camera switches, bathroom breaks, health concerns, equipment malfunctions, and even a robbery didn’t prevent the conversation from coming together. With this in mind, I hope you’ll forgive how crazy and inconsistent the video is; the fact that it even got put together is courtesy of my friend and editor Yu Guo (a philosopher who got his PhD from NYU with past guest Paul Boghossian). Given that there’s some new intro music, and you’re already getting an abundance of distracting production nuggets, I decided to show the soup being made. My thanks go to Richard, who met with me twice in three days (not to mention his wife, who allowed it), and Michael, who put up with me for over four hours.

P.S. Toward the end of the episode Michael eats a jerky stick from Maui Nui Venison, which is a company operating out of Hawaii that manages the invasive deer population of Maui that is decimating the landscape. Instead of culling the animals and disposing of their bodies, the meat is butchered and sold. It is the only meat I eat, full-stop, and the ethical reasons are sufficient for this, but it is also the best meat that I have ever had. I reached out to Maui Nui and told them that I support what they are doing and would like to be of any help that I can. They gave me this coupon code—ROBINSON—which you can use for 15% off. I am not being paid for this in any way. I believe in what they are doing and I want this model to succeed. People are going to be eating meat for the foreseeable future and I would be happier if it was not factory-farmed meat. So please check Maui Nui out and give them a try!

Richard Wolff is Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and a visiting professor at The New School, where he works on economics in the Marxist tradition. Michael Hudson is Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and President of the Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends. He researches domestic and international finance, the history of economics, and the role of debt in shaping class stratification, among many other topics.

OUTLINE

00:00 Introduction

00:51 Michael and Rick's Histories with Marx

16:50 A Marxless Education

29:42 Marxism and the West

35:18 Marx and the Emergence of Capitalism

43:59 Socialism Vs State Capitalism

49:21 The Culmination of Economics in Marx

57:16 The Crucial Features of Marxism

1:12:15 Marx, China, and the BRICS

1:25:57 The Laws of Motion of Finance Capitalism

1:28:58 Why Won't Mainstream Media Interview Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff?

1:42:16 Why is the American Empire Crumbling?

1:54:51 Is the Dollar Destroying the United States?

2:01:38 Marx as the Culmination of Classical Economics

2:10:19 Will Trump's China Tariff Policy Spell Disaster for America?

2:22:43 Is Trump's Policy on Russia Idiotic?

2:27:23 Does It Matter for America Who Wins the Election?

2:37:13 Michael's Rhetorical Abilities

2:43:54 How Can We Use Economics to Forecast the Future?

2:54:48 Does Paul Krugman Know Anything About Economics?

2:57:57 How Michael Got His PhD

3:04:59 What's Wrong With the Nobel Prize in Economics?

3:10:04 The Long and Short of Marx's Kapital

3:17:20 Capitalism and Labor

3:31:51 The Biggest Myth About Karl Marx