In this episode, Jayson is joined by Kevin Joseph Grogan, who is a former Savannah Chatham metropolitan police department homicide detective who has a reputation as a straight shooter, who cares passionately about public safety and the people in the mostly poor minority and dangerous neighborhoods that for twelve years he was sworn to protect. Kevin has traded his badge and gun in for a pen and now is the author of two books. The 2018 book Black Sheep White Cop and the 2022 book Ruffian.

They discuss the type of people who go into law enforcement, the price they pay not just physically but mentally and emotionally, the stigma that prevents so many of those officers from getting the treatment they need and the anxiety and its impact on their performance in the field.

Jayson and Kevin discuss the toll that being a police officer took on Kevin's personal life and the reason why he's taken to writing both as a form of therapy and as a way to promote a better way of policing.

Listen to part one with Kevin Grogan here.

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