Dr Roberta Babb is a chartered Clinical Psychologist, organisational consultant and a registered forensic psychotherapist. She and David first met when they both worked at the Millfields Unit, a forensic unit for working with men who had offended and who had personality disorders. That was about thirteen years ago so Roberta has worked in the field for a considerable time. Since then she has developed a number of creative initiatives, including some related to gang cultures, rather than settling into a conventional psychology post. In this conversation Roberta talks about her work, about racisim and about her determination to develop her own pathway where her individual contribution can be made.