Jayson is joined by John Cleghorn who is the pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian Church in the Elizabeth neighborhood of Charlotte, North Carolina. John has served at Caldwell since 2008 where he's the minister and head of staff at the church. Caldwell is a progressive mission-oriented church at the time when participation in the church and all sorts of religious organizations in America has declined, Caldwell has experienced some unusual growth. John came to the ministry later in life after retiring from a position as a senior vice president for Bank of America, where he served in various public policy and public relations roles.

At a time when church membership in America has declined to 47% in 2020 from 70% in 2000, John writes about the remarkable turnaround of Caldwell which was on the edge of closure when John became the Pastor. John traded his position at the corporate office of the nation's largest retail bank for the dusty, dated office at Caldwell. John writes a message about how churches can survive and even be resurrected at the intersections of race, sexuality, class and faith. John proposes creating something new and John tells a story not just about the turnaround of Caldwell, but also about his personal transformation.

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